speaker-0: This episode is proudly brought to you by Comfy Koalas, a go-to low tox nappy and white brand. If you haven't tried their subscription boxes yet, they're a total game changer. No more running out for nappies midweek. You can get $35 off your first box with the code BERLEYBALANST, which means you're pretty much getting two bags of nappies for free.
speaker-1: Welcome to Barely Balance, the podcast that's mostly healthy with a side of chaos.
speaker-0: We're your hosts, Catherine Hay and Shelly McKenzie, both qualified nutritionists and mothers, and around here we're all about finding the sweet spot between green smoothies and wine nights, kids lunchboxes and grown-up dreams, wellness hacks and real life mess.
speaker-1: Whether you're knee-deeping motherhood, navigating hormones, or just trying to remember where you left your coffee, this is your space. Expect real talk, expert tips, belly laughs, and the occasional overshadow.
speaker-0: So grab your matcha or margarita and let's dive in.
speaker-1: We are back for another episode all about perimenopause and postpartum, which is such a hot topic, especially because it's semi-relevant to me. ⁓ and we'll link in with our episode with Nat Gringrutus all around perimenopause because you know, perimenopause is such a hype word at the moment. We see it everywhere, especially I guess within our age bracket and beyond, because it's so relevant for us. You know, we can be in perimenopause from anywhere from 35. ⁓ and it can last a decade and plus, decade plus being in signs and symptoms. Like puberty. You're not just in puberty for one year, you're in puberty for multiple years. And that's the same with perimenopause. So we wanted to unpack perimenopause in relationship or coexisting with postpartum because women are generally having babies later on in life. And this is extremely relevant. to anyone having babies, you know, in their late thirties, early forties and beyond. So talk to Michelle, what are you seeing most in clinic at the moment around perimenopause and postpartum?
speaker-0: So much fear. So and yeah, I'm having this conversation on the daily with women. So they're coming to me and they're a lot of them are through that initial, you know, four months plus postpartum, where we would think some of the symptoms have started to resolve, which we'll go into shortly. And they're coming and they're saying, like, I'm I'm not feeling any better, or baby's sleeping through, but I'm still waking up. I'm still having my hot flushes. I'm still, I don't know what's going on. And this is the really interesting, I guess, clash that's happening with perimenopause and postpartum, because it also can clash with thyroid, which we've talked about a lot. And we'll also link that here. But the postpartum, perimenopause, and thyroid all mimic the same symptoms. So again, a lot of women. A go in to their health professional and it's just, ⁓ well, you've just had a baby, you know, the symptoms will resolve, but they're not resolving. And this is where I'm saying to women who are 35 or over, your postpartum period is running into perimenopause, whether you like it or not. And I'm also having that conversation just in general with my mums to be, who are also going to be coming into this phase because it's just a topic that's not. spoken about. And so then when these symptoms linger of postpartum, so they are things like, as I said, your baby's sleeping through, but you're not. Maybe you're experiencing, you know, night sweats and hot flushes and you just think it's a part of early postpartum, which you can also experience in those early days, but they're just not resolving. Or there's weight fluctuations. You're holding more weight around your waist. And again, postpartum obviously we have waste ⁓ we have weight that we hold, but it's just not budging. Or maybe a woman is her period returns and it's spaced out, or her symptoms are different. But again, it just might be, ⁓ it's because I'm breastfeeding, or it's just because I'm postpartum and maybe my body just hasn't regulated. And yeah, like that could be it. Yeah. But it could also be perimenopause in this clash. Or it could be the thyroid driving this as well. Cause we know that that can change the your your menstrual cycle. So It's just this conversation that I'm having lots with women. And some women are so fearful of this. And then they say, Well, maybe I shouldn't, like if they're in their conception ⁓ preconception, for example, they're like, ⁓ well, maybe I shouldn't be trying for this baby. I'm like, No, you try for your baby. If you want a baby, have a baby. But just be aware. Just be aware that from the age of 35, your hormones are going to ⁓ start to change. And it's a slow progression for many women. And most women don't even notice this until they're in their forties. But it's happening. And postpartum, like you're having that estrogen drop. So it's like not necessarily, I don't think it's necessarily ⁓ bringing on perimenopause early. It's just the clash is happening together and it's maybe exacerbating it. Yeah. Do you agree?
speaker-1: ⁓ absolutely. And I mean, obviously I'm not in clinical practice at the moment. So I'm not having these conversations, but I hear it from the practitioners at Capture Nutrition, they're having those conversations. And I think in our age bracket, and it's something that I'm obviously well aware of too, because I'm 38 at the end of the year. So I'm currently nine months postpartum. So I'm definitely in this category. And I often think. Wow, has my period changed? What's what what's this looking at? And my period has drastically changed this postpartum. It's the first time ever in my whole life I haven't had period pain with my endometriosis. And that is just an huge, huge miracle. And I'm still breastfeeding, so there's all those hormone changes. And I all what I've been thinking recently too, and I know this from science. is, you know, after the 12 months. Once you're kind of out of that 12 months postpartum, the body's naturally trying like recalibrated. You've you passed all the initial hormone crashes from your pregnancy and your first 12 months of postpartum. So these hormone states from 12 months onwards are generally at this age bracket looking more into that perimenopause profile than anything else. If your thyroid's all good, if your nutrient status is all good and all those other areas that may be driving it, I have you kind of tick the box with your practitioner such as yourself shell. And it's like, okay, maybe this is perimenopause actually in the piece. Well not maybe. It is. It is. ⁓
speaker-0: And it's just not something to be scared of either. No, it happens. It happens and it's going to happen regardless. Like it doesn't matter whether you're postpartum or not, it's gonna happen. Yeah. Exactly. It's just the conversation of it happening together. Yes. Doesn't happen. Yes. So then women are just feeling like they're just constantly unseen, unheard, they're dealing with all these symptoms. They don't know why. so yeah.
speaker-1: I actually had a client before I went on maternity leave, and she was 43, and she was 12 months postpartum, no period return, stopped breastfeeding, I think at around six months. And she'd been to her GP, she'd been to everyone going, you know, what's going on with my cycle, blood test, nah, nah, you're all good, everything's fine. Came to me, said, You're it's perimenopause. This is perimenopause starting. And she was just like it's like she just it was like the penny drop, she goes, thank you. Yeah, thank you. No one could tell me what this was. I thought something I was broken. I thought something was wrong. And she was, she'd stopped breastfeeding at six months, but in her earlier pregnancies, she'd stopped breastfeeding in a period returned. So it's all these little subtle changes as well, which can be really evident like that, or Your period's returning, everything's normal. But like you were saying, it's that fatigue, it's the hot flushes, or it's a cycle that's drawn out a little bit more, or it's a cycle that's arriving a little bit prematurely, or it's the anxiety.
speaker-0: I was about to say the anxiety and the depression ⁓ which can also come with postpartum or fada.
speaker-1: Yeah. A little pause is here, this episode brought to you by Comfy Koala.
speaker-0: Our nappy people. And honestly, the reason we rate them clinically is pretty simple. Skin is the biggest organ your baby has, and it's in contact with something almost all day. So
speaker-1: Higher absorbency isn't just a nice to have. It's less time the skin spends compromised. That's the whole point.
speaker-0: Bamboo, plant-based, gentle on sensitive skin, all the boxes we actually check.
speaker-1: If you've been meaning to try them, now's the time. Thirty-five dollars off your first box with the code Barely Balanced.
speaker-0: Essentially that's two bags right there.
speaker-1: Hard to argue with free nappies. The code barely balanced. Check out in the show notes. Right, let's get back to it. Even I've had ⁓ a mother recently, I can't remember where from, but she was like, all of a sudden I'm just irritated at everything. My husband chewing, the sound of the fucking radio being on 24-7. I just can't handle noise. And this is a perimenopause sign and symptom. The ringing, those little, those little kind of
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Pain points that are all part of this hormone picture of that start of that cascade for perimenopause.
speaker-0: And what try to say as well to clients in clinic, I'm like, have you ever spoken to your mum or your older sibling? Like if you've got an older sister, like speak to them. Find out what happened for them and when did perimenopause when did they start to notice changes? When did menopause happen for them? What did their perimenopause look like? Because as you said, Cap, like this can go on for over ten years. Once menopause happens, we're sweet. Yeah.
speaker-1: Well are we? No sex life, no libido, bones are deteriorating, osteoporosis, heightened anxiety. ⁓ But this is just coming back to that thing of like, ⁓ my god, we go through so we go through so
speaker-0: You know, like you you've Jesus Christ. So much. But again, like I'm like, you don't need to be fearful of this because even though our mums might and yes, all those symptoms can be very real, but we've also got whether it's perimenopause, menopause, postpartum, we have so many more resources at our fingertips than what our parents did. Exactly. You know, but I think it's useful to be able to talk to them. Your mum or your sisters or whatever about what that experience looked like for them. And I was saying the other day I said to a client, she's one of four girls, she's the youngest, she's in her forties, six months postpartum. ⁓ and I said to her, Have you ever spoken to any of your sisters about what perimenopause looked like for them? 'Cause she hadn't even hadn't even occurred to her that perimenopause is also occurring for her right now. Yeah. Yeah. And she was like, ⁓ I haven't. I was like, talk to them about it. Like Doesn't mean yours is going to be the exact same, but it's information. Like they do say that our perimenopausal journeys and menopausal journeys can mimic our mothers. Yes. So therefore if you've got an older sibling like a sister, it's the same. You know what I mean? So it's just like getting that information while we can. Absolutely.
speaker-1: Absolutely. And I don't even think perimenopause was not a hype word when our mums were going through it. It was kind of like menopause, done. It's like for sure. But I've been experiencing all this turmoil for years leading up. And it was you know, that all comes with its own host of issues for that generation. But our generation is so lucky because perimenopause there's so much more talk about it, so much more education. Like you were just saying, Shell, we know we have to be lifting weights now. Yep. To protect us and our estrogen, we and our bones. We know there's certain food groups, there's certain supplements, there's certain medications, there's certain things that we can really utilize as tools to go through perimenopause and especially during postpartum too, as seamlessly as possible. It's not something like you were saying, we shouldn't be fearing it. No. It's going to happen. We don't go into puberty fearing it. It just happens. It just happens. Because we don't know we don't know. Yes, we know more. But you're never fearing puberty. It's just a situation that happens. Yeah. ⁓ so the situation, it's a normal physiological response, like perimenopause and menopause is. So I think ⁓ the chat that we had with Nat was really helpful because we saw all those different tools that we can utilize to support ourselves and put in place to ensure we're working with our hormone decline and not against it.
speaker-0: Hundred percent. Yeah. And that's the thing that yeah, as you said, like we've got the resources now. So whatever story your mum tells you doesn't mean it be doesn't need to be your story. Yeah. And it's so funny because that older generation are now talking about they're like, ⁓ that's what that was. Yes.
speaker-1: I thought was going to end up in a mental institution. I thought I was hysterical. No, Mum, that was just you in perimenopause. She's like, I'd you father. Like that was perimenopause.
speaker-0: Yeah. And it's so normal. It's so normal. But I've I actually feel
speaker-1: Mm-hmm. a lot for our mum's generation because they didn't have those resources. And my I I know my mom 'cause I've had lots of conversations with her. Like she was feeling out of control.
speaker-0: So was mine. Yeah. And just didn't know what was wrong with her.
speaker-1: And didn't know where to go to for support or they were just pref HR test.
speaker-0: No, then that's where. And this is where the conversations when we talk to that older generation can be horror stories. But it doesn't need to be our story because we have so much more information. Yeah. And this is all this conversation is, because you can go back and listen to Nat's episode, but it is just letting women know that this hormonal clash between postpartum and perimenopause is very real. It's unavoidable. Mm-hmm. It's gonna happen. Like you're gonna go through perimenopause whether you have your baby's late or not. But you just I just think information here is key.
speaker-1: And having that, like you said, that undertone of awareness. So when you're going for your postpartum checkup, and if you have ticked all those boxes, your thyroid's good, like I was saying before, you can have that subtle understanding, ⁓ okay, maybe this is a perimenopause picture or season or profile, whatever you want to call it. So you can actually take that pressure off yourself a little bit as well. And maybe you kind of go down the path of, okay, I'm perimenopause, I'm in that age bracket, I'm postpartum. What can I do? To help myself. Maybe I'll do a Pilates class and I'll lose some weights that week. You know, I'll introduce ⁓ creatine. I'll introduce other foods to really support my muscle development and growth after giving birth as well. It's like all these little touch points that you can implement to help yourself through that season. Well, season and perimenopause is a long time, but even through postpartum, but in preparation for perimenopause.
speaker-0: 100%. I think the biggest indication for me clinically that I see in women as well is the sleep. Like if baby's sleeping through, but you're still not, and then there's something going on. And you might not be sleeping through because you might have a bit of anxiety around, is my baby okay when I'm sleeping? Like that's not uncommon. And a lot of women will s feel that in those initial months. But if that's still going on for you, months and months have passed and you're still waking up with a bit of anxiety around it, your baby's sleeping through totally fine, but you're not. Or yeah, if your sleep's just really disrupted, like that is a clear sign that there's something more going on from you, for you. It's not just that you've had a baby. You know, and as I said, it can be really hard, ⁓ well, not really hard, it's quite easy actually, to figure out exactly what is going on. You just need the right test.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-0: been done as well. Like, and that's where at that three month mark, your thyroid hormones are have settled. So get your thyroid test, make sure that's fine. If that's fine, then get all your iron, your nutrients, or get all that done anyway. But you know, do all those tests. Make sure from a nutrient perspective, everything's looking fine as well. Especially we talked about like the anxiety and depression. Yeah. Iron complained to that. But if your iron levels are also fine, your vitamin D status is quite good. Then that's where it's like, okay, well what next? Probably perimenopause. Yeah.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. I think also having a holistic healthcare practitioner, if you are postpartum and in this age bracket, is really helpful for you to help distinguish between all those different ⁓ areas that you've just spoken about, Shell. So you're not going in trying to figure it out on your own. And especially a GP's gonna just mark a tick next to any blood work that's within those normal in air quotes ranges. Whereas someone like yourself or myself, we'd be looking outside of those boxes through a naturopathic lens and then really looking at all the other factors that play into your postpartum journey, your age and your hormones and all of those other things too. So you can navigate that perimenopause postpartum crash clash, sorry, to get
speaker-0: Yeah, 100%. And the hormones, like we may not be able to, there might not be any point getting those tested in that initial 12 months. Like normally we wait for the period to come back and at least three cycles before we're even looking at hormones. So that's not going to be the main indicator that we're looking at to say, ⁓ yeah, you're going through perimenopause. It's not that. It's going to be more of your lifestyle and almost ruling out everything else from a blood pathology perspective. Yeah. And so that's where. Yeah, looking and and working with a practitioner who knows this stuff is important. Yeah. Because even in the postpartum period, yeah, most women aren't even told to get a blood test. You might get one before you leave the hospital and then that's it. Yeah. There is no guidance then around, well, when do you need to check in on this stuff? We say again at the six week mark. Yeah. And we give our clients lists of what they need to get tested at six weeks postpartum. But again, like even that. isn't spoken about. No. So yeah, you just need that extra support, extra hand holding if you are thirty five and above going through postpartum.
speaker-1: Absolutely. And like like you were saying, because I think this is something too, perimenopause, even if you're outside of postpartum, will never really show up on bloods. Right. Unless it's, you know, you get these huge elevation in estrogen and huge crashes. But it is very hard to say you are perimenopause. And that's why a holistic practitioner, we think outside of the box. We're looking at your lifestyle. Like you were saying, we're thinking about every other aspect.
speaker-0: No.
speaker-1: That gives us more of that information rather than blood pathology.
speaker-0: Hundred percent. It's so funny because I'm out of the postpartum period, obviously. Like my youngest is now four. And for the first time ever, I had my first irregular period. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ maybe it's my one in two thousand chance of falling pregnant. Which if you don't know what I'm talking about, go and listen back to the show once a fourth, and I would secretly love it. Yeah.
speaker-1: Which she'd secretly love.
speaker-0: But I I literally was like, ⁓ I'm like eight days late or something. Like this has never happened to me. And I'm 39 at the end of this year. And I was like, what is going on? And my my initial thought was, ⁓ I need to do a pregnancy test. But then I was like, ⁓ actually, I'm 39. Yeah. Like this is my first sign. Yeah. And then my next period has come. And I know I also don't track my period at all. Just because my hubby has had the snip. I'm not trying to conceive. I know when I ovulate and I know rough day, I get it. But I hadn't been like fully tracking it. I just knew the date that I kind of get it. Anyway. but then this period's come and I my first two days were so heavy, so much heavier than what I'm used to. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ interesting. My period has never changed, not from pre-kids, during kids, postpartum with kids. And here we are. Almost 39, and all of a sudden I'm like, huh, these little things, this is me just starting. Those little hormonal changes are happening and my it's reflecting in my period. so yeah, it's just like so fascinating and so I can't believe I'm there. But also I'm like, of course I'm there. Almost 39.
speaker-1: Yeah, Shell, we have I mean, most of you will know we our birthdays are on the same day, but Shell's a year older than me and I never let her forget that. You're going through you're going through menopause before me. We're only a year apart, right? Pretty much. ⁓ but yeah, you're like you're already noticing it. And I actually am really fascinated to see once I've stopped breastfeeding, because I've got that as a hormonal change, but once I've stopped breastfeeding to actually understand what my cycles are going to look like after this postpartum experience as well. Because no doubt they're gonna change again. Yeah. And who knows my cycle length's gonna change, all those things because I'll be in the perimetopause why I am in the perimetopause window also.
speaker-0: Mm. And I just find it so fascinating this postpartum period, because as we said, there can be so many things that are dictating the way that our cycles respond or show up as well. And even just from like if you are experiencing some anxiety, just let's just say it's motherhood and that mental load is just too much for you and it's caused some anxiety. Like, Even that can just be what's changing your hormones. But then is it the perimenopause that's causing the anxiety that's making you feel like that? Or is it the postpartum or is it the thyroid? You know what I mean? Like I just find it such a fascinating time. And this is where, again, from a holistic perspective, we are trained to look at the body as a whole because how can you not? Yeah. How can you just look at the body in postpartum? No mat like from a for a woman 35 and above and just say, ⁓ it's because you've had a baby.
speaker-1: Yeah, exactly.
speaker-0: It's not because you've had a baby. Like you need to be looking at the body as a whole, not because of one thing. Exactly. Yes, you've given birth and it's monumental. Yes. But there's also so many other things that are occurring and that can be triggering everything else that's occurring.
speaker-1: That's why you need to investigate holistic approach.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that we want to add into this episode? It was more like we just really wanted to have this conversation, I guess. So women didn't fear it. Women know what's happening. Women know to continue to look and investigate if they feel like it's something more than in air quotes just having a baby. Yeah. Anything else that we're wanting to add in?
speaker-1: No, I think this was just an awareness chat. And I think we've covered all those areas of awareness around this next chapter of life for this age.
speaker-0: Bracket for this age breaker. And as we said, if you want to learn more about perimenopause, we'll link Nat's episode in. She is just an absolute whiz. ⁓ but you know, it's just, yeah, it's not something to fear, it's just something to be aware of, whether you're preconception in your preconception journey later on in life, or you're pregnant and you're coming into this postpartum period, 35 and above, you know, just know that this is gonna happen. Yeah.
speaker-1: Well you're freshly postpartum. Yeah. And breastfeeding still too. Because there's just so many contributing factors.
speaker-0: There is so many. Yeah. So keep digging. Yeah. And yeah, you'll find your answers. I hope our DMs are always open.
speaker-1: Exactly. We hope this episode has been helpful. Yeah. More than anything.
speaker-0: Yeah. And if you've got friends, please share it who are also in their 30s. Late 30s. Late thirties. They're in their late 30s, share it. But it is. It's just like the conversations that also aren't being had within friendship groups, within family circles as well. Like it's just conversations that aren't being had. So please share this. Yeah. And make sure that these conversations are starting to be had because once they are, I've had women come to me and they're like, ⁓ I actually spoke to my friend about it. And sure enough, like,
speaker-1: Late thirties, but
speaker-0: They're all going through this. None of us had spoken about it. One is on HRT. One's doing this. One's doing that. And it's just like, once you start having these conversations with your safe people, it you'll be amazed.
speaker-1: And you'll feel probably is have a lot more clarity around it. It's like the penny drop moment or the mic drop moment. You're like, ⁓ great. Okay. That yeah.
speaker-0: it. That's it. Yeah. But yeah, we're always here. So please reach out if you need. Thanks. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. If you have enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review. That way, we can continue to inspire and educate more mamas around the globe. If you would like to get in contact, request a guest or a topic, connect with us on the Barely Balanced Podcast Instagram page and send us a direct message. Otherwise, until next episode, stay sane, Mama.
speaker-1: Welcome to Barely Balance, the podcast that's mostly healthy with a side of chaos.
speaker-0: We're your hosts, Catherine Hay and Shelly McKenzie, both qualified nutritionists and mothers, and around here we're all about finding the sweet spot between green smoothies and wine nights, kids lunchboxes and grown-up dreams, wellness hacks and real life mess.
speaker-1: Whether you're knee-deeping motherhood, navigating hormones, or just trying to remember where you left your coffee, this is your space. Expect real talk, expert tips, belly laughs, and the occasional overshadow.
speaker-0: So grab your matcha or margarita and let's dive in.
speaker-1: We are back for another episode all about perimenopause and postpartum, which is such a hot topic, especially because it's semi-relevant to me. ⁓ and we'll link in with our episode with Nat Gringrutus all around perimenopause because you know, perimenopause is such a hype word at the moment. We see it everywhere, especially I guess within our age bracket and beyond, because it's so relevant for us. You know, we can be in perimenopause from anywhere from 35. ⁓ and it can last a decade and plus, decade plus being in signs and symptoms. Like puberty. You're not just in puberty for one year, you're in puberty for multiple years. And that's the same with perimenopause. So we wanted to unpack perimenopause in relationship or coexisting with postpartum because women are generally having babies later on in life. And this is extremely relevant. to anyone having babies, you know, in their late thirties, early forties and beyond. So talk to Michelle, what are you seeing most in clinic at the moment around perimenopause and postpartum?
speaker-0: So much fear. So and yeah, I'm having this conversation on the daily with women. So they're coming to me and they're a lot of them are through that initial, you know, four months plus postpartum, where we would think some of the symptoms have started to resolve, which we'll go into shortly. And they're coming and they're saying, like, I'm I'm not feeling any better, or baby's sleeping through, but I'm still waking up. I'm still having my hot flushes. I'm still, I don't know what's going on. And this is the really interesting, I guess, clash that's happening with perimenopause and postpartum, because it also can clash with thyroid, which we've talked about a lot. And we'll also link that here. But the postpartum, perimenopause, and thyroid all mimic the same symptoms. So again, a lot of women. A go in to their health professional and it's just, ⁓ well, you've just had a baby, you know, the symptoms will resolve, but they're not resolving. And this is where I'm saying to women who are 35 or over, your postpartum period is running into perimenopause, whether you like it or not. And I'm also having that conversation just in general with my mums to be, who are also going to be coming into this phase because it's just a topic that's not. spoken about. And so then when these symptoms linger of postpartum, so they are things like, as I said, your baby's sleeping through, but you're not. Maybe you're experiencing, you know, night sweats and hot flushes and you just think it's a part of early postpartum, which you can also experience in those early days, but they're just not resolving. Or there's weight fluctuations. You're holding more weight around your waist. And again, postpartum obviously we have waste ⁓ we have weight that we hold, but it's just not budging. Or maybe a woman is her period returns and it's spaced out, or her symptoms are different. But again, it just might be, ⁓ it's because I'm breastfeeding, or it's just because I'm postpartum and maybe my body just hasn't regulated. And yeah, like that could be it. Yeah. But it could also be perimenopause in this clash. Or it could be the thyroid driving this as well. Cause we know that that can change the your your menstrual cycle. So It's just this conversation that I'm having lots with women. And some women are so fearful of this. And then they say, Well, maybe I shouldn't, like if they're in their conception ⁓ preconception, for example, they're like, ⁓ well, maybe I shouldn't be trying for this baby. I'm like, No, you try for your baby. If you want a baby, have a baby. But just be aware. Just be aware that from the age of 35, your hormones are going to ⁓ start to change. And it's a slow progression for many women. And most women don't even notice this until they're in their forties. But it's happening. And postpartum, like you're having that estrogen drop. So it's like not necessarily, I don't think it's necessarily ⁓ bringing on perimenopause early. It's just the clash is happening together and it's maybe exacerbating it. Yeah. Do you agree?
speaker-1: ⁓ absolutely. And I mean, obviously I'm not in clinical practice at the moment. So I'm not having these conversations, but I hear it from the practitioners at Capture Nutrition, they're having those conversations. And I think in our age bracket, and it's something that I'm obviously well aware of too, because I'm 38 at the end of the year. So I'm currently nine months postpartum. So I'm definitely in this category. And I often think. Wow, has my period changed? What's what what's this looking at? And my period has drastically changed this postpartum. It's the first time ever in my whole life I haven't had period pain with my endometriosis. And that is just an huge, huge miracle. And I'm still breastfeeding, so there's all those hormone changes. And I all what I've been thinking recently too, and I know this from science. is, you know, after the 12 months. Once you're kind of out of that 12 months postpartum, the body's naturally trying like recalibrated. You've you passed all the initial hormone crashes from your pregnancy and your first 12 months of postpartum. So these hormone states from 12 months onwards are generally at this age bracket looking more into that perimenopause profile than anything else. If your thyroid's all good, if your nutrient status is all good and all those other areas that may be driving it, I have you kind of tick the box with your practitioner such as yourself shell. And it's like, okay, maybe this is perimenopause actually in the piece. Well not maybe. It is. It is. ⁓
speaker-0: And it's just not something to be scared of either. No, it happens. It happens and it's going to happen regardless. Like it doesn't matter whether you're postpartum or not, it's gonna happen. Yeah. Exactly. It's just the conversation of it happening together. Yes. Doesn't happen. Yes. So then women are just feeling like they're just constantly unseen, unheard, they're dealing with all these symptoms. They don't know why. so yeah.
speaker-1: I actually had a client before I went on maternity leave, and she was 43, and she was 12 months postpartum, no period return, stopped breastfeeding, I think at around six months. And she'd been to her GP, she'd been to everyone going, you know, what's going on with my cycle, blood test, nah, nah, you're all good, everything's fine. Came to me, said, You're it's perimenopause. This is perimenopause starting. And she was just like it's like she just it was like the penny drop, she goes, thank you. Yeah, thank you. No one could tell me what this was. I thought something I was broken. I thought something was wrong. And she was, she'd stopped breastfeeding at six months, but in her earlier pregnancies, she'd stopped breastfeeding in a period returned. So it's all these little subtle changes as well, which can be really evident like that, or Your period's returning, everything's normal. But like you were saying, it's that fatigue, it's the hot flushes, or it's a cycle that's drawn out a little bit more, or it's a cycle that's arriving a little bit prematurely, or it's the anxiety.
speaker-0: I was about to say the anxiety and the depression ⁓ which can also come with postpartum or fada.
speaker-1: Yeah. A little pause is here, this episode brought to you by Comfy Koala.
speaker-0: Our nappy people. And honestly, the reason we rate them clinically is pretty simple. Skin is the biggest organ your baby has, and it's in contact with something almost all day. So
speaker-1: Higher absorbency isn't just a nice to have. It's less time the skin spends compromised. That's the whole point.
speaker-0: Bamboo, plant-based, gentle on sensitive skin, all the boxes we actually check.
speaker-1: If you've been meaning to try them, now's the time. Thirty-five dollars off your first box with the code Barely Balanced.
speaker-0: Essentially that's two bags right there.
speaker-1: Hard to argue with free nappies. The code barely balanced. Check out in the show notes. Right, let's get back to it. Even I've had ⁓ a mother recently, I can't remember where from, but she was like, all of a sudden I'm just irritated at everything. My husband chewing, the sound of the fucking radio being on 24-7. I just can't handle noise. And this is a perimenopause sign and symptom. The ringing, those little, those little kind of
speaker-0: Yeah.
speaker-1: Pain points that are all part of this hormone picture of that start of that cascade for perimenopause.
speaker-0: And what try to say as well to clients in clinic, I'm like, have you ever spoken to your mum or your older sibling? Like if you've got an older sister, like speak to them. Find out what happened for them and when did perimenopause when did they start to notice changes? When did menopause happen for them? What did their perimenopause look like? Because as you said, Cap, like this can go on for over ten years. Once menopause happens, we're sweet. Yeah.
speaker-1: Well are we? No sex life, no libido, bones are deteriorating, osteoporosis, heightened anxiety. ⁓ But this is just coming back to that thing of like, ⁓ my god, we go through so we go through so
speaker-0: You know, like you you've Jesus Christ. So much. But again, like I'm like, you don't need to be fearful of this because even though our mums might and yes, all those symptoms can be very real, but we've also got whether it's perimenopause, menopause, postpartum, we have so many more resources at our fingertips than what our parents did. Exactly. You know, but I think it's useful to be able to talk to them. Your mum or your sisters or whatever about what that experience looked like for them. And I was saying the other day I said to a client, she's one of four girls, she's the youngest, she's in her forties, six months postpartum. ⁓ and I said to her, Have you ever spoken to any of your sisters about what perimenopause looked like for them? 'Cause she hadn't even hadn't even occurred to her that perimenopause is also occurring for her right now. Yeah. Yeah. And she was like, ⁓ I haven't. I was like, talk to them about it. Like Doesn't mean yours is going to be the exact same, but it's information. Like they do say that our perimenopausal journeys and menopausal journeys can mimic our mothers. Yes. So therefore if you've got an older sibling like a sister, it's the same. You know what I mean? So it's just like getting that information while we can. Absolutely.
speaker-1: Absolutely. And I don't even think perimenopause was not a hype word when our mums were going through it. It was kind of like menopause, done. It's like for sure. But I've been experiencing all this turmoil for years leading up. And it was you know, that all comes with its own host of issues for that generation. But our generation is so lucky because perimenopause there's so much more talk about it, so much more education. Like you were just saying, Shell, we know we have to be lifting weights now. Yep. To protect us and our estrogen, we and our bones. We know there's certain food groups, there's certain supplements, there's certain medications, there's certain things that we can really utilize as tools to go through perimenopause and especially during postpartum too, as seamlessly as possible. It's not something like you were saying, we shouldn't be fearing it. No. It's going to happen. We don't go into puberty fearing it. It just happens. It just happens. Because we don't know we don't know. Yes, we know more. But you're never fearing puberty. It's just a situation that happens. Yeah. ⁓ so the situation, it's a normal physiological response, like perimenopause and menopause is. So I think ⁓ the chat that we had with Nat was really helpful because we saw all those different tools that we can utilize to support ourselves and put in place to ensure we're working with our hormone decline and not against it.
speaker-0: Hundred percent. Yeah. And that's the thing that yeah, as you said, like we've got the resources now. So whatever story your mum tells you doesn't mean it be doesn't need to be your story. Yeah. And it's so funny because that older generation are now talking about they're like, ⁓ that's what that was. Yes.
speaker-1: I thought was going to end up in a mental institution. I thought I was hysterical. No, Mum, that was just you in perimenopause. She's like, I'd you father. Like that was perimenopause.
speaker-0: Yeah. And it's so normal. It's so normal. But I've I actually feel
speaker-1: Mm-hmm. a lot for our mum's generation because they didn't have those resources. And my I I know my mom 'cause I've had lots of conversations with her. Like she was feeling out of control.
speaker-0: So was mine. Yeah. And just didn't know what was wrong with her.
speaker-1: And didn't know where to go to for support or they were just pref HR test.
speaker-0: No, then that's where. And this is where the conversations when we talk to that older generation can be horror stories. But it doesn't need to be our story because we have so much more information. Yeah. And this is all this conversation is, because you can go back and listen to Nat's episode, but it is just letting women know that this hormonal clash between postpartum and perimenopause is very real. It's unavoidable. Mm-hmm. It's gonna happen. Like you're gonna go through perimenopause whether you have your baby's late or not. But you just I just think information here is key.
speaker-1: And having that, like you said, that undertone of awareness. So when you're going for your postpartum checkup, and if you have ticked all those boxes, your thyroid's good, like I was saying before, you can have that subtle understanding, ⁓ okay, maybe this is a perimenopause picture or season or profile, whatever you want to call it. So you can actually take that pressure off yourself a little bit as well. And maybe you kind of go down the path of, okay, I'm perimenopause, I'm in that age bracket, I'm postpartum. What can I do? To help myself. Maybe I'll do a Pilates class and I'll lose some weights that week. You know, I'll introduce ⁓ creatine. I'll introduce other foods to really support my muscle development and growth after giving birth as well. It's like all these little touch points that you can implement to help yourself through that season. Well, season and perimenopause is a long time, but even through postpartum, but in preparation for perimenopause.
speaker-0: 100%. I think the biggest indication for me clinically that I see in women as well is the sleep. Like if baby's sleeping through, but you're still not, and then there's something going on. And you might not be sleeping through because you might have a bit of anxiety around, is my baby okay when I'm sleeping? Like that's not uncommon. And a lot of women will s feel that in those initial months. But if that's still going on for you, months and months have passed and you're still waking up with a bit of anxiety around it, your baby's sleeping through totally fine, but you're not. Or yeah, if your sleep's just really disrupted, like that is a clear sign that there's something more going on from you, for you. It's not just that you've had a baby. You know, and as I said, it can be really hard, ⁓ well, not really hard, it's quite easy actually, to figure out exactly what is going on. You just need the right test.
speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-0: been done as well. Like, and that's where at that three month mark, your thyroid hormones are have settled. So get your thyroid test, make sure that's fine. If that's fine, then get all your iron, your nutrients, or get all that done anyway. But you know, do all those tests. Make sure from a nutrient perspective, everything's looking fine as well. Especially we talked about like the anxiety and depression. Yeah. Iron complained to that. But if your iron levels are also fine, your vitamin D status is quite good. Then that's where it's like, okay, well what next? Probably perimenopause. Yeah.
speaker-1: Absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. I think also having a holistic healthcare practitioner, if you are postpartum and in this age bracket, is really helpful for you to help distinguish between all those different ⁓ areas that you've just spoken about, Shell. So you're not going in trying to figure it out on your own. And especially a GP's gonna just mark a tick next to any blood work that's within those normal in air quotes ranges. Whereas someone like yourself or myself, we'd be looking outside of those boxes through a naturopathic lens and then really looking at all the other factors that play into your postpartum journey, your age and your hormones and all of those other things too. So you can navigate that perimenopause postpartum crash clash, sorry, to get
speaker-0: Yeah, 100%. And the hormones, like we may not be able to, there might not be any point getting those tested in that initial 12 months. Like normally we wait for the period to come back and at least three cycles before we're even looking at hormones. So that's not going to be the main indicator that we're looking at to say, ⁓ yeah, you're going through perimenopause. It's not that. It's going to be more of your lifestyle and almost ruling out everything else from a blood pathology perspective. Yeah. And so that's where. Yeah, looking and and working with a practitioner who knows this stuff is important. Yeah. Because even in the postpartum period, yeah, most women aren't even told to get a blood test. You might get one before you leave the hospital and then that's it. Yeah. There is no guidance then around, well, when do you need to check in on this stuff? We say again at the six week mark. Yeah. And we give our clients lists of what they need to get tested at six weeks postpartum. But again, like even that. isn't spoken about. No. So yeah, you just need that extra support, extra hand holding if you are thirty five and above going through postpartum.
speaker-1: Absolutely. And like like you were saying, because I think this is something too, perimenopause, even if you're outside of postpartum, will never really show up on bloods. Right. Unless it's, you know, you get these huge elevation in estrogen and huge crashes. But it is very hard to say you are perimenopause. And that's why a holistic practitioner, we think outside of the box. We're looking at your lifestyle. Like you were saying, we're thinking about every other aspect.
speaker-0: No.
speaker-1: That gives us more of that information rather than blood pathology.
speaker-0: Hundred percent. It's so funny because I'm out of the postpartum period, obviously. Like my youngest is now four. And for the first time ever, I had my first irregular period. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ maybe it's my one in two thousand chance of falling pregnant. Which if you don't know what I'm talking about, go and listen back to the show once a fourth, and I would secretly love it. Yeah.
speaker-1: Which she'd secretly love.
speaker-0: But I I literally was like, ⁓ I'm like eight days late or something. Like this has never happened to me. And I'm 39 at the end of this year. And I was like, what is going on? And my my initial thought was, ⁓ I need to do a pregnancy test. But then I was like, ⁓ actually, I'm 39. Yeah. Like this is my first sign. Yeah. And then my next period has come. And I know I also don't track my period at all. Just because my hubby has had the snip. I'm not trying to conceive. I know when I ovulate and I know rough day, I get it. But I hadn't been like fully tracking it. I just knew the date that I kind of get it. Anyway. but then this period's come and I my first two days were so heavy, so much heavier than what I'm used to. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ interesting. My period has never changed, not from pre-kids, during kids, postpartum with kids. And here we are. Almost 39, and all of a sudden I'm like, huh, these little things, this is me just starting. Those little hormonal changes are happening and my it's reflecting in my period. so yeah, it's just like so fascinating and so I can't believe I'm there. But also I'm like, of course I'm there. Almost 39.
speaker-1: Yeah, Shell, we have I mean, most of you will know we our birthdays are on the same day, but Shell's a year older than me and I never let her forget that. You're going through you're going through menopause before me. We're only a year apart, right? Pretty much. ⁓ but yeah, you're like you're already noticing it. And I actually am really fascinated to see once I've stopped breastfeeding, because I've got that as a hormonal change, but once I've stopped breastfeeding to actually understand what my cycles are going to look like after this postpartum experience as well. Because no doubt they're gonna change again. Yeah. And who knows my cycle length's gonna change, all those things because I'll be in the perimetopause why I am in the perimetopause window also.
speaker-0: Mm. And I just find it so fascinating this postpartum period, because as we said, there can be so many things that are dictating the way that our cycles respond or show up as well. And even just from like if you are experiencing some anxiety, just let's just say it's motherhood and that mental load is just too much for you and it's caused some anxiety. Like, Even that can just be what's changing your hormones. But then is it the perimenopause that's causing the anxiety that's making you feel like that? Or is it the postpartum or is it the thyroid? You know what I mean? Like I just find it such a fascinating time. And this is where, again, from a holistic perspective, we are trained to look at the body as a whole because how can you not? Yeah. How can you just look at the body in postpartum? No mat like from a for a woman 35 and above and just say, ⁓ it's because you've had a baby.
speaker-1: Yeah, exactly.
speaker-0: It's not because you've had a baby. Like you need to be looking at the body as a whole, not because of one thing. Exactly. Yes, you've given birth and it's monumental. Yes. But there's also so many other things that are occurring and that can be triggering everything else that's occurring.
speaker-1: That's why you need to investigate holistic approach.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that we want to add into this episode? It was more like we just really wanted to have this conversation, I guess. So women didn't fear it. Women know what's happening. Women know to continue to look and investigate if they feel like it's something more than in air quotes just having a baby. Yeah. Anything else that we're wanting to add in?
speaker-1: No, I think this was just an awareness chat. And I think we've covered all those areas of awareness around this next chapter of life for this age.
speaker-0: Bracket for this age breaker. And as we said, if you want to learn more about perimenopause, we'll link Nat's episode in. She is just an absolute whiz. ⁓ but you know, it's just, yeah, it's not something to fear, it's just something to be aware of, whether you're preconception in your preconception journey later on in life, or you're pregnant and you're coming into this postpartum period, 35 and above, you know, just know that this is gonna happen. Yeah.
speaker-1: Well you're freshly postpartum. Yeah. And breastfeeding still too. Because there's just so many contributing factors.
speaker-0: There is so many. Yeah. So keep digging. Yeah. And yeah, you'll find your answers. I hope our DMs are always open.
speaker-1: Exactly. We hope this episode has been helpful. Yeah. More than anything.
speaker-0: Yeah. And if you've got friends, please share it who are also in their 30s. Late 30s. Late thirties. They're in their late 30s, share it. But it is. It's just like the conversations that also aren't being had within friendship groups, within family circles as well. Like it's just conversations that aren't being had. So please share this. Yeah. And make sure that these conversations are starting to be had because once they are, I've had women come to me and they're like, ⁓ I actually spoke to my friend about it. And sure enough, like,
speaker-1: Late thirties, but
speaker-0: They're all going through this. None of us had spoken about it. One is on HRT. One's doing this. One's doing that. And it's just like, once you start having these conversations with your safe people, it you'll be amazed.
speaker-1: And you'll feel probably is have a lot more clarity around it. It's like the penny drop moment or the mic drop moment. You're like, ⁓ great. Okay. That yeah.
speaker-0: it. That's it. Yeah. But yeah, we're always here. So please reach out if you need. Thanks. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. If you have enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review. That way, we can continue to inspire and educate more mamas around the globe. If you would like to get in contact, request a guest or a topic, connect with us on the Barely Balanced Podcast Instagram page and send us a direct message. Otherwise, until next episode, stay sane, Mama.
