Ethereum’s Next Decade | Tomasz K. Stańczak, Ansgar Dietrichs, Dankrad Feist, & Danny Ryan

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Welcome to Bankless, and we've got a treat for you on the show today.
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I'm here in the greatest city south of the equator, Buenos Aires,
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where over 10,000 people converged for Ethereum DevConnect,
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a week-long conference distributed all over the city.
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On the Tuesday of DevConnect, we hosted the Bankless Summit,
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where we gave 12 speakers the opportunity to deliver their best,
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most educational, most passionate talk,
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the talk that they have just a burning desire to espouse to the Ethereum community.
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and therefore the world.
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We are packaging up a curated selection of these talks
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into two episodes.
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One episode featuring the talks
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from all the members of the Ethereum Foundation,
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Tamash, Andgar, Donkrad, and Danny Ryan.
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And another episode,
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which represents my four personal favorites from the summit.
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Talks from Shea Ketsever from Flashbots,
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Lincoln Murr from Coinbase,
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Michael Dong from Brevis,
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and Luca Prosperi from MZero.
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The Bankless Summit was done in partnership with MZero,
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the universal stablecoin platform.
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They sit at the intersection of cypherpunk crypto economics and the TradFi explosion of interest in stablecoins and stablecoin infrastructure.
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They were just fantastic partners to have at the summit and really helped the whole thing come together.
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The episode that you're going to hear right now is the Ethereum Foundation episode where Tamash gives the lay of the land around Ethereum.
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Donkrad Feiss gives his proposed strategy for Ethereum moving forward.
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His last talk as a member of the Ethereum Foundation before going on to Tempo.
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Onsgar gives a technical talk
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how we scale Ethereum
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and Danny Ryan
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tells his personal hero's journey
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to where he is today at Etherealize
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so let's go ahead and get into
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all these incredible talks
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Hi, everyone.
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So this will be very much like slides clicking.
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I think that's 150 slides.
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So I'll try to show you a lot of things
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around Ethereum and Ethereum Foundation.
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I think I was thinking of like which topic
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finally I submitted.
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So I'll talk about everything a bit.
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So it was meant to be Ethereum Finance.
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will be a bit of next five years of Ethereum
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from the perspective of the foundation.
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So we celebrated 10 years,
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10 years no downtime, innovation and uptime.
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And I've showed this slide a few times.
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It was my thinking of how to expand as much as possible
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what Ethereum should be in 10 years.
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I thought it should be all the assets in the world
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in the digital form.
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So everyone has the permission,
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less access through Ethereum
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to all the assets in the world.
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You don't have to necessarily
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financialize everything in the world,
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but you want to give access to the things
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for whatever automation reasons.
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All automation, I mean, not only financial markets automation,
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but also embodied AI, automation of robotaxis,
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robotics, humanoids with verification.
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If you want to make sure that the future is safe, automated,
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connected to global finance for everyone, open source,
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that's how we do it.
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Provide ambient trust.
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So this is more like what Ethereum really delivers,
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the ambient trust for any applications.
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That's why Ethereum should be around you
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so you can always reach for that trust.
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if you like it from institutions around you.
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They'll have privacy and security,
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some of the fundamental values of Ethereum
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to everyone by default.
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Make the world open source.
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And what I mean by that is that
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every single aspect of the institution,
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of the government,
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of the financial systems around us
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becomes open source.
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And you can participate in definition of that
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the same way as you work on any GitHub protocol,
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on any GitHub repository in the world.
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And yeah, that makes the world permissionless.
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and what Ethereum Foundation is doing towards supporting the Ethereum ecosystem this year.
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We've done some restructuring and because we had a lot of,
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I think we had Ansgar and probably some other speakers
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that will talk and focus more about on protocol.
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So I'll show you a bit more on ECODEF side that is a bit of a change this year
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as we focus more on communication and talking to various participants of the ecosystem and outside.
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So ecosystem acceleration part of the EcoDev is developer acceleration,
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founder success, app relations, and enterprise acceleration.
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And on the developer acceleration side, if you look at work,
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fantastic work from Austin Griffith and his team,
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and also Binzi supporting that effort,
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you have things like the Biddle Guild.
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That is one of the reasons why you have such a fantastic developer community
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because there are some fantastic materials
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to really go through all the aspects of Ethereum.
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This is what they do,
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all the effort they put into educating developers
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during DevConnect.
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So every day there are workshops
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and you see here prediction markets,
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zero knowledge proofs,
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the forecaster applications,
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speed running Ethereum, stable coins.
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So they really talk about all the aspects of DeFi
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and show people how to build that.
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And if you go to speedrunningetherium.com,
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then you see the examples that people can go through.
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And the first challenges are the most basic ones,
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like tokenization, decentralized seeking apps.
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But they go all the way to teaching people DeFi
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from the very beginning,
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over collateralized lending, stable coins,
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prediction markets, ZK voting, and so on.
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And then this week,
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the developers will have the ability
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to participate in this Capture the Flag competition.
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So Austin makes everything super fun to work with
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for many, many years,
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working with his team
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and putting a lot of effort in making sure that Ethereum feels super friendly,
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welcoming, and fun for the new developers.
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And it's the type of effort that is contributing to the success
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in the developer reports.
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Binj is doing great work now.
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If you've seen him as an emcee during the opening talks the whole day,
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he did 10 years of emcee, well, almost 10 years, 10 hours of emceeing.
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And he comes to the ecosystem to help Ethereum Foundation
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with his 40,000 followers and has this fantastic voice,
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which is a mixture of focused on builders,
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humble, a bit emotional, telling the stories
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and is the kind of voice that we definitely want to see
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and show people that something more matters,
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but also you put your emotions in everything.
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And developer report, we kind of started trying to own it.
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We realized that it's very often misrepresented,
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that we didn't put an effort to represent everything
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that happens on Ethereum.
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and we pushed all the repositories
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that really belong to the Ethereum ecosystem
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and started preparing reports
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that combine all the aspects of the Ethereum ecosystem
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more broadly together.
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So we want to bring all the L2s developers
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and Ethereum developers, EVM developers
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and represent it the way that we think
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represents Ethereum best.
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But this is the actual official website
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of the developer report
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and it does show the Ethereum ecosystem leading.
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And when we publish reports,
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it still raised a lot of questions
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about how we really define the Ethereum ecosystem,
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EVM, L2, what we really support as Ethereum Foundation.
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What is important is that when you look at the data,
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and it's not only over the last, like years ago,
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we were leading on the developer side,
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developer community side,
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but also nowadays when you see new developers
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and when you combine all the L2s
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with many of the developers,
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they are starting through L2s nowadays, right?
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And then they understand,
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oh, by the way, I've kind of learned mainnet anyway,
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and I'm just building applications on O2s.
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So then you see the numbers really being top
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and also for the new devs.
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So we wanted to review that claim
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that Ethereum doesn't really attract new developers anymore.
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We have the app relations and research team
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with Jason Chaskin doing amazing work
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on pushing the conversations with the applications.
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So when you look at the DevConnect this year,
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it was really focused on applications much more,
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which means that it was a bit of whack-a-mole
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whenever the event was appearing on the main list for us
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for the events that we were announcing
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that was very much research or infrastructure focused.
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Somebody at DEF was saying, why?
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Why not applications?
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Can we put applications there?
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And it happened a few times and it had a lot of pushback.
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But those things, they sometimes don't happen just naturally.
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You have to put a bit of effort to say,
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let's talk about applications more.
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And the Ethereum ecosystem tries to focus more
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on founders and applications
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and the success of founders and conversations
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with DeFi, with payment systems, with stable coins
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to show all of you that real world adoption
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that Ansgar was also talking about.
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That's Jason.
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Just to bring more names and more faces
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to everyone's attention.
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Those people put a lot of effort
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and will be in the future the ones
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that will lead much of the conversation.
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More applications focused that I just mentioned on.
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Application showcases, if you go to Lateral,
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you probably see lots of apps, see lots of app builders.
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And when we hear from app builders,
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I think they start to mention more and more often that,
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yes, we do have founder support.
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People started talking to us.
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People started listening to us.
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Enterprise acceleration.
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This is a very new thing for the Ethereum Foundation this year.
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We started talking to institutions, financial institutions.
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We went to Wall Street.
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We talked to Ethereum.
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It itself built much of the Ethereum space
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for talking to institutions about finance.
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We created the website institutions.etereum.org
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just to talk to institutions the institution's way.
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And then Ryan talked about it a lot recently as well,
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that he realized that we talk about the same things,
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but with different language.
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We don't use the words that are very typical for TradFi,
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like risk, like assets.
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We say real-world assets.
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Then we have to explain the things,
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and then we realize actually we talk about the same things.
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And then if we talk about it properly,
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then the traditional finance realized,
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oh, by the way, you actually solved a lot of problems that we're trying to solve and we didn't even know it.
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The atomicity of the blockchain, the decentralization that we're looking for,
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the no counterparty risk, and so on and so on.
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It's just different language, but we can sell everything in the blockchain space much better.
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So we talk that language, we show the quotes from people that are analysts from the institutional finance world.
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We show the examples of large institutions that are adopting Ethereum.
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and we don't talk too much about the underlying technology.
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They always can reach out to us and learn more.
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And earlier this year, we've seen that people expect Ethereum
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to become this new finance layer.
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And many institutions that we go to say,
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well, we expect that we'll start disappearing.
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And it's great to participate in it.
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Actually, we've supported it for many years.
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This is when you talk to people inside the institutional hierarchies
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and they're climbing up just for the future
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to either merge with the blockchains, with Ethereum,
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or simply to continue changes, maybe jump.
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But it happens less often that people have to leave the institutions
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to start something in Web3.
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Now they start disrupting these institutions from inside,
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not really disrupting, but making that evolution happen
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and allow the whole transition to happen.
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I think that gradual disappearance of the institutions
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in the way that we've seen it in the past.
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And it's 10 years.
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And in July, we were celebrating that talking about Ethereum is very strong for the FCC,
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for the first big announcements of this year.
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And we just continue since then all the time, wherever we go.
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The numbers keep showing Ethereum as super strong.
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10 years, over 10 years.
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It's just when I was preparing this switch from 10.2 years to 10.3 years.
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So I'll be counting every month and every year forever.
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108 billions of the top value securing the network.
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So this is Staked Eve.
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Lots of TVL on DeFi,
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and this is so much more than any other competing solution.
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So DeFi is absolutely crushing it on the Ethereum ecosystem.
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Stablecoins TVL, 61% on Ethereum mainnet
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and high volumes on DEXs.
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For the first time, I'm just pushing my picture.
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Okay, but this is Hong Kong Fintech Week.
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We went a lot to the events in Asia
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to talk to family offices,
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to banks, to institutions, talking about tokenizations in Asia, in Brazil, in US, in New York.
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That was Nextfin event, not organized by the Ethereum Foundation, but supported by the Ethereum Foundation.
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00:14:47.980 --> 00:14:55.260
Then we organized a similar event in Hong Kong, where we invited top institutional CEOs, CFOs,
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analysts of the top institutions participating, talking on stage with people from the foundation,
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from the top DeFi applications, and so on.
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founder success team that supports founders with access to capital, with the mentoring,
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with the first stages, the first few months, years.
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So we wanted to transition that path from going to
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something like if global hackathon and then having an idea and then thinking, okay, how do I accelerate
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from here to launching a product and getting funding and then getting users.
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So that's the
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founder success story.
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And again, Abbas joined recently as just one of a few fantastic members
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of the team.
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And one of the things that they prepared and announced is a founders lab.
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It
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happens this week, where probably around 20 different founders teams will have access
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one-on-one without any like panel stocks, just simply access one-on-one to some of the top
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builders and most successful entrepreneurs of the Ethereum ecosystem.
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You see Jesse, you see Sandeep, you see Mike from EtherFi, Bindji himself.
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So the founders will be able to understand how to communicate, how to fundraise, how
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to organize the companies and so on.
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And also what we wanted to express was whenever we start talking about the Ethereum ecosystem,
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we want to present L2s.
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We want to show that all of this is together.
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So when we talk about founder success, we sent founders not only to Mainnet, but we show them this is how you can get financing and mentoring from L2s.
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So we push that through the Ethereum.org website.
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But not only there, also through DevConnect, through LaLa, we invited all the L2s together and we said one important thing to change compared to some of the previous big events of the Ethereum ecosystem is to push somehow and encourage L2s to be together in one space.
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00:16:49.662 --> 00:16:52.520
So everyone who comes to the Ethereum ecosystem feels like, oh, right.
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Okay, so this is all part of the one.
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And we keep talking about all the different O2s
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and all the possible events to say,
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look, this is all Ethereum.
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And it's just the messaging,
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a communication and invitation and being friendly
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00:17:03.041 --> 00:17:04.940
that really increases the feel
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and the strength of the ecosystem for the newcomers.
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Because now no longer they think,
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oh, this is all competing and I have to choose.
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So Ethereum is actually weak
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because there is also, I don't know,
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00:17:14.320 --> 00:17:15.840
like Base or Bitrum and Starknet.
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00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:17.500
Now they feel like, oh, this is all Ethereum.
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00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.860
So this is such a strong ecosystem.
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00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:20.360
I can just join or choose later,
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maybe depending on the situation.
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00:17:23.363 --> 00:17:24.567
ecosystem support program.
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So we made some changes to the grants and financing.
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We push
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much less on the direct financing and much more on the grants that are supporting through mentoring
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and from amplification from visibility.
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00:17:38.770 --> 00:17:41.920
But also if we talk about financing, we collaborate with
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00:17:41.980 --> 00:17:47.639
the external institutions that fund public goods like Gitcoin or Octant or Allo Capital and so on.
400
00:17:48.561 --> 00:18:08.080
And we also create a very clear wish list and we'll start working on it further to get all the team leads from the Ethereum Foundation to define very specific wishes depending on the goals that we have set for ourselves that we think it's something that is really missing in the ecosystem.
401
00:18:08.743 --> 00:18:12.560
and we'll try to make sure that we never compete with the products that can be commercialized,
402
00:18:12.600 --> 00:18:14.520
that you can actually do business.
403
00:18:14.580 --> 00:18:18.960
And we force more and more people in the economy system to be entrepreneurial about public goods as well.
404
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:24.740
Ecosystem Unblocking does talk a lot about the outreach to academia.
405
00:18:24.820 --> 00:18:29.860
We had events at Shanghai Jiao Tong University and Duke.
406
00:18:30.621 --> 00:18:32.560
We also went to PolyU in Hong Kong.
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00:18:33.100 --> 00:18:36.193
And we look for more and more academic institutions, universities,
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00:18:38.745 --> 00:18:40.659
in Asia, Latin America, but also the US,
409
00:18:41.281 --> 00:18:42.300
we want to reach out.
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00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.040
And for sure, if you have connections
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00:18:45.262 --> 00:18:47.780
to the top universities in Argentina,
412
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.140
please always invite, or around the world,
413
00:18:50.381 --> 00:18:52.300
invite them to connect with the Ethereum Foundation.
414
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:54.380
We'd like to establish more and more collaborations
415
00:18:54.642 --> 00:18:57.220
on bringing the students as developers to the systems,
416
00:18:57.300 --> 00:18:58.039
but also as founders,
417
00:18:58.520 --> 00:19:00.700
not also bringing researchers that can talk about
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00:19:00.821 --> 00:19:03.380
either policy or the cryptography research.
419
00:19:04.183 --> 00:19:05.620
Everything is really much needed,
420
00:19:05.780 --> 00:19:07.100
and it's better if this happens
421
00:19:07.484 --> 00:19:08.800
in a totally decentralized way.
422
00:19:09.321 --> 00:19:10.620
Well, Columbia, big support
423
00:19:10.701 --> 00:19:13.120
for the Columbia Ethereum Research Center this year.
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00:19:15.044 --> 00:19:16.420
Policy support teams is something
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00:19:16.581 --> 00:19:18.960
that we've been asked for for a long, long time
426
00:19:19.041 --> 00:19:20.700
to work with the regulators
427
00:19:20.942 --> 00:19:23.120
and answer questions from regulators about Ethereum.
428
00:19:24.283 --> 00:19:26.220
We collaborated in the past
429
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:27.660
with the Centralization Research Center,
430
00:19:27.780 --> 00:19:28.459
but also Connor,
431
00:19:29.162 --> 00:19:30.800
who was leading the Centralized Research Center,
432
00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:32.220
came to Foundation recently
433
00:19:32.724 --> 00:19:34.499
and will lead the policy support team
434
00:19:34.722 --> 00:19:36.560
at the Foundation globally.
435
00:19:36.720 --> 00:20:00.020
So we'll support the advocacy group, policy teams, and regulators who reach out to the foundation and ask questions with workshops, with answers, so we can guide them on what really DeFi means, what really decentralization means, why do we build things this way, how do you choose between all two, how do you solve the problems when there are sequencer issues, when there are forks in different scenarios.
436
00:20:00.765 --> 00:20:03.100
and then regulators start to feel much, much more comfortable
437
00:20:03.261 --> 00:20:05.620
when they find someone or group of people
438
00:20:05.922 --> 00:20:08.960
who is supported to answer all those questions.
439
00:20:10.241 --> 00:20:13.460
Ecosystem amplification, this is all the Ethereum.org website,
440
00:20:13.900 --> 00:20:16.960
but also this year will be, sorry, next year,
441
00:20:17.040 --> 00:20:20.280
we'll want to be a bit more visible during EVE Denver
442
00:20:20.360 --> 00:20:24.200
to make sure that we visit some events next year
443
00:20:24.401 --> 00:20:27.580
that somehow over the years started being seen
444
00:20:28.085 --> 00:20:29.720
disconnecting from Ethereum foundations
445
00:20:30.062 --> 00:20:32.440
very often was our fault
446
00:20:32.581 --> 00:20:34.600
that we started focusing on something
447
00:20:34.821 --> 00:20:37.740
that is like entirely the vision of the foundation.
448
00:20:38.002 --> 00:20:40.500
And now we kind of reach for more connections,
449
00:20:40.660 --> 00:20:41.260
more communication,
450
00:20:41.947 --> 00:20:43.240
and we'll be super excited
451
00:20:43.381 --> 00:20:45.480
if this is the massively successful event
452
00:20:45.561 --> 00:20:46.939
in the US next year.
453
00:20:47.663 --> 00:20:48.660
They're going to a new venue.
454
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:50.533
The Ethereum Everywhere team
455
00:20:51.342 --> 00:20:52.340
is a bit of a response
456
00:20:52.461 --> 00:20:53.915
to much of the feedback
457
00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:55.394
that I was talking about,
458
00:20:56.241 --> 00:21:02.220
about how we're not creating local physical hubs
459
00:21:02.260 --> 00:21:03.299
that are focused on founders
460
00:21:03.562 --> 00:21:05.140
and supporting founders to be successful
461
00:21:05.608 --> 00:21:06.300
and meet regularly,
462
00:21:06.461 --> 00:21:08.820
not the events that happen once per year in different cities,
463
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:10.139
but something that happens every week.
464
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.417
So we're opening the Hong Kong hub with S&Z.
465
00:21:16.002 --> 00:21:19.400
There are local fund support for LATAM founders,
466
00:21:20.180 --> 00:21:20.940
the Ethereum London,
467
00:21:21.780 --> 00:21:23.740
between Encode and Ethereum Foundation
468
00:21:23.821 --> 00:21:25.277
and another mind team, I think.
469
00:21:26.182 --> 00:21:29.300
the frontier research with the robot fights underground.
470
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.120
So things that are a bit multidisciplinary
471
00:21:32.422 --> 00:21:35.940
that connect people from AI and longevity and biotech
472
00:21:36.181 --> 00:21:39.180
and Ethereum and can help them work together.
473
00:21:40.042 --> 00:21:42.760
What can I say about the governance of Ethereum now?
474
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.320
We try to make sure that it continues super transparent
475
00:21:45.340 --> 00:21:48.140
and we start to think how to involve more people
476
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.578
and more feedback into how we drive the all core devs
477
00:21:53.281 --> 00:21:56.820
through the reports and supportive full understanding of the ecosystem.
478
00:21:57.340 --> 00:22:00.440
So obviously, always if research was the driver of the ideas
479
00:22:00.641 --> 00:22:02.619
and the Ethereum magicians is all the IPs,
480
00:22:03.562 --> 00:22:07.900
forecast nowadays allows you to read through all the transcriptions
481
00:22:08.001 --> 00:22:10.700
and understand what happens on the all core dev calls.
482
00:22:11.742 --> 00:22:15.458
But what's also important is that through the Ethereum Foundation work
483
00:22:16.121 --> 00:22:20.660
of the EchoDev team, we have many more conversations with the ecosystem,
484
00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:25.040
them with DeFi teams, with L2 teams, with institutions, and we collect that to provide
485
00:22:25.984 --> 00:22:30.280
in the future very structured reports that say, this is what the main problems are, and
486
00:22:30.360 --> 00:22:35.840
this is how the industry is trying to suggest to solve them and provide this to the all-core
487
00:22:35.860 --> 00:22:39.640
devs so they can independently address those issues and they can start choosing, but choosing
488
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:46.039
in a very informed way and not like, we kind of want engineers to feel like they can silo
489
00:22:47.043 --> 00:22:50.240
into this engineer mode and researcher mode
490
00:22:50.762 --> 00:22:54.380
while having access to all the information
491
00:22:54.561 --> 00:22:56.880
from the outside world on what's important,
492
00:22:57.020 --> 00:22:57.880
what the problems are.
493
00:22:59.080 --> 00:23:00.800
So many calls, obviously,
494
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:02.900
the moment when we define how we structure,
495
00:23:03.020 --> 00:23:04.119
how we seek that feedback,
496
00:23:04.521 --> 00:23:06.300
it can be gamed a bit.
497
00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:09.180
We will organize more of the strategic calls
498
00:23:09.281 --> 00:23:10.260
with the other participants
499
00:23:10.321 --> 00:23:11.700
and we provide those reports.
500
00:23:12.362 --> 00:23:14.220
And this will lead to selection of headliners.
501
00:23:14.300 --> 00:23:18.360
headliner idea is for every single network upgrade
502
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.460
will have something that is big enough to talk about, something that really changes
503
00:23:22.581 --> 00:23:26.200
Ethereum to talk about otherwise why to push a network upgrade
504
00:23:26.804 --> 00:23:29.520
and this not necessarily has to be a large
505
00:23:30.323 --> 00:23:31.528
core development effort.
506
00:23:32.271 --> 00:23:34.359
On the side, a bit independently, there is
507
00:23:35.043 --> 00:23:37.900
Lean Ethereum Roadmap that shows five years of Ethereum Roadmap
508
00:23:38.362 --> 00:23:41.356
that talks a lot about solutions
509
00:23:42.344 --> 00:23:42.796
around ZK.
510
00:23:43.581 --> 00:23:45.120
And talking about the DeFi space,
511
00:23:45.261 --> 00:23:46.500
because this one also promised,
512
00:23:46.600 --> 00:23:47.759
but I have 30 seconds left.
513
00:23:48.140 --> 00:23:48.637
It's totally okay.
514
00:23:48.840 --> 00:23:50.360
I'll probably go over half of the slides.
515
00:23:50.800 --> 00:23:53.618
So nowadays we'll talk more about the hybrid DeFi.
516
00:23:54.220 --> 00:23:55.980
And I think that if we see the examples
517
00:23:56.162 --> 00:23:57.379
of recent announcements from Aave
518
00:23:57.561 --> 00:24:00.400
with the insurance for the participants,
519
00:24:00.800 --> 00:24:02.040
I'll read through the details.
520
00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:03.439
Probably there's some small text there.
521
00:24:04.322 --> 00:24:05.480
Insurance of the deposits,
522
00:24:05.802 --> 00:24:07.980
then finally have more and more solutions
523
00:24:08.142 --> 00:24:09.660
for big institutions and users
524
00:24:10.283 --> 00:24:14.300
to combine the traditional solutions and DeFi.
525
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.380
This is EtherFi that starts to look more and more like NewBank.
526
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.160
This is an example of Morpho and Coinbase.
527
00:24:21.222 --> 00:24:22.499
And you know, the predictions are huge.
528
00:24:22.780 --> 00:24:24.800
Two trillions for the stable coins market,
529
00:24:25.402 --> 00:24:27.820
two trillions on the tokenization market we've expected,
530
00:24:28.340 --> 00:24:29.460
Ethereum domination,
531
00:24:31.005 --> 00:24:33.340
and beautiful, beautiful numbers everywhere.
532
00:24:33.882 --> 00:24:39.080
And really, I guess I'll share it and you'll see.
533
00:24:39.603 --> 00:24:43.240
but everything else I think is mostly review of the numbers from RWX.
534
00:24:43.644 --> 00:24:45.040
They look fantastic for Ethereum.
535
00:24:45.501 --> 00:24:48.520
Everywhere it's like 60, 70, 80% of the market domination.
536
00:24:49.620 --> 00:24:52.280
And generally whatever other chains Altel wants,
537
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:53.900
we're promised they're trying to achieve.
538
00:24:54.401 --> 00:24:56.900
I kind of feel they didn't and Ethereum did this year.
539
00:24:57.321 --> 00:24:59.420
And it looks amazing when you look into numbers,
540
00:24:59.520 --> 00:25:03.260
then you realize that you can very, very easily answer any questions
541
00:25:03.663 --> 00:25:06.060
about are the things going well on Ethereum.
542
00:25:07.166 --> 00:25:08.040
The numbers are great.
543
00:25:08.404 --> 00:25:09.700
scaling you've heard from Ansgar
544
00:25:10.791 --> 00:25:11.620
see those scaling
545
00:25:12.568 --> 00:25:13.556
comments about the blobs
546
00:25:14.122 --> 00:25:14.650
and L2s
547
00:25:16.005 --> 00:25:18.140
Lean Roadmap shows us how we'll scale
548
00:25:18.705 --> 00:25:20.180
100 times whatever you've
549
00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:21.359
heard on Bankless
550
00:25:21.883 --> 00:25:24.240
a fantastic episode with Justin Tregg about going
551
00:25:24.321 --> 00:25:26.039
to GigaGas per second for ZK
552
00:25:26.241 --> 00:25:28.100
this is happening, it's moving
553
00:25:28.202 --> 00:25:29.320
much faster than we expected
554
00:25:30.730 --> 00:25:32.040
and you know
555
00:25:32.161 --> 00:25:34.100
the, I don't have to
556
00:25:34.120 --> 00:25:36.340
click for everything else, there's lots of L2s presented
557
00:25:36.482 --> 00:25:37.816
look at all of them, like 20, 30,
558
00:25:38.761 --> 00:25:40.319
hundreds of L2s that are innovating
559
00:25:40.501 --> 00:25:41.430
and are super strong.
560
00:25:41.451 --> 00:25:42.016
We're waiting
561
00:25:42.481 --> 00:25:44.520
for the time when they will be talking about L2 premium
562
00:25:45.112 --> 00:25:45.500
on Ethereum.
563
00:25:47.023 --> 00:25:48.260
Yeah, I don't want to go
564
00:25:48.342 --> 00:25:49.039
too much over time.
565
00:25:50.402 --> 00:25:51.453
Thank you, Tamash.
566
00:25:51.473 --> 00:25:52.160
We got time for one
567
00:25:52.301 --> 00:25:53.855
question before we get Tamash off the stage.
568
00:25:53.876 --> 00:25:54.360
She's got a question
569
00:25:54.421 --> 00:25:55.499
for Tamash.
570
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.080
Hi, Tamash.
571
00:25:58.360 --> 00:26:00.380
I have a lot of respect for what you
572
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:00.602
do.
573
00:26:00.622 --> 00:26:02.319
I was wondering how you're
574
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:04.280
able to figure out what the
575
00:26:04.461 --> 00:26:06.179
right thing to do and drown all the noise
576
00:26:06.703 --> 00:26:09.560
especially because people are very emotional especially on twitter and things like that when
577
00:26:09.580 --> 00:26:13.260
you know prices go up and down and things like that how do you figure out who to listen to or
578
00:26:13.340 --> 00:26:18.840
like what the right thing to do is um so i think it's important to understand a few aspects of it
579
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:25.180
separated so one is the mood of the entire industry so you know we we don't look at prices
580
00:26:25.461 --> 00:26:30.620
like as a target or anything in the context of what decisions we are making but it's worth to
581
00:26:30.760 --> 00:26:34.620
keep looking at the prices almost as a metric that tells you what the mood of the entire industry is
582
00:26:35.081 --> 00:26:40.860
Because very often the financing of the projects of startups or founders is dependent on the under token price and so on.
583
00:26:40.940 --> 00:26:51.280
So if you see that everything collapses on the market, you know that your founders are stressed or need support or need just like someone telling them, these are the examples of the past.
584
00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:54.020
This is the founders that were successful for the market and so on.
585
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:59.600
And so this allows you to already filter feedback based on the current mood
586
00:26:59.801 --> 00:27:02.180
and also adjust the feedback based on the current mood
587
00:27:02.462 --> 00:27:04.700
and understand how you should talk and what you should talk about.
588
00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:07.280
Should you be more excited, less excited, and so on.
589
00:27:07.340 --> 00:27:11.460
The other thing is just if you talk to enough people,
590
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:14.720
like hundreds or thousands of people, and we start aggregating it,
591
00:27:15.320 --> 00:27:18.980
the truth just keeps becoming clearer and clearer.
592
00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:24.460
and especially as you continuously talk to successful founders
593
00:27:24.642 --> 00:27:26.680
or the founders that are very perseverant
594
00:27:26.761 --> 00:27:29.320
like pushing for years and years of thinking of like
595
00:27:29.543 --> 00:27:31.100
what I'm doing wrong, what I'm doing right
596
00:27:31.643 --> 00:27:34.360
if you hear enough of that, the false ideas
597
00:27:34.522 --> 00:27:35.779
the ideas that don't make sense
598
00:27:37.670 --> 00:27:39.680
some ideas will obviously look false
599
00:27:39.761 --> 00:27:42.600
and some ideas will look like they are obviously genius
600
00:27:43.604 --> 00:27:46.677
but that's because you have such a big space of something
601
00:27:47.581 --> 00:27:50.780
to compare them to the genius ideas will become very clear to be genius.
602
00:27:51.340 --> 00:27:53.580
And obviously, fault ones will become even more obvious.
603
00:27:54.443 --> 00:27:54.909
Thanks, Tamash.
604
00:27:54.929 --> 00:27:55.860
Round of applause for Tamash.
605
00:28:01.623 --> 00:28:03.680
And in order to achieve that vision, Ethereum needs some scale,
606
00:28:03.860 --> 00:28:07.880
which is why we're going to bring up Ansgar to talk about how Ethereum is scaling next year.
607
00:28:08.681 --> 00:28:09.300
Yeah, hi, everyone.
608
00:28:10.521 --> 00:28:16.220
Yeah, as David said, I initially wanted to just purely talk about our scaling plans for next year.
609
00:28:16.761 --> 00:28:28.640
And then when I was preparing the talk, I actually realized that there is like a bit of a broader theme that is kind of where I think the hours count approach to scaling and how that has changed over the last year is really emblematic of that.
610
00:28:28.780 --> 00:28:39.840
And so I expanded the scope a little bit and I want to talk about what I would call going from the decade of exploration to real world Ethereum and how basically scaling is a case study in that sense.
611
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:44.360
But I want to start by briefly taking us to a bit of a painful moment of the last year.
612
00:28:45.247 --> 00:28:46.800
not this tweet in particular
613
00:28:46.961 --> 00:28:49.020
but I think it is emblematic
614
00:28:49.121 --> 00:28:51.040
you know like I think many of you
615
00:28:51.101 --> 00:28:52.740
remember this time like late last year
616
00:28:52.760 --> 00:28:54.920
early this year there was a lot of tension in the
617
00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:55.778
Ethereum community and
618
00:28:57.048 --> 00:28:58.718
given that Vitalik is basically
619
00:28:59.161 --> 00:29:00.920
representing Ethereum like no one else I thought it was
620
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:02.320
like a good discord to take an example
621
00:29:02.703 --> 00:29:04.800
but there was many many people were screaming at each other
622
00:29:04.861 --> 00:29:06.800
basically everyone had this feeling that something
623
00:29:07.002 --> 00:29:09.040
was going wrong but it wasn't
624
00:29:09.162 --> 00:29:10.218
quite clear what was
625
00:29:10.985 --> 00:29:12.960
the problem and I basically
626
00:29:13.080 --> 00:29:19.340
want to propose one explanation, one narrative of like what exactly went wrong or maybe even
627
00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:24.260
just like what the challenge in that moment in time was, but how that actually, I think,
628
00:29:24.821 --> 00:29:27.094
is overall a positive and hopeful story.
629
00:29:29.021 --> 00:29:36.860
So what I would propose is that basically from the conception of Ethereum, from basically
630
00:29:37.120 --> 00:29:42.900
the white paper, the yellow paper, all the way until maybe sometime through last year,
631
00:29:43.824 --> 00:29:47.640
Ethereum and crypto as a whole was really in this decade of exploration.
632
00:29:48.260 --> 00:29:55.280
And decade of exploration means most of the real adoption of the technology is still in the future.
633
00:29:55.641 --> 00:29:56.980
In a way, you're still in a sandbox.
634
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.960
It doesn't mean what you're building is not already real in the moment,
635
00:30:00.421 --> 00:30:03.220
but you're still building towards a broader vision.
636
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:06.840
A lot of the reasons why people were in this space at the time was not because they were
637
00:30:07.564 --> 00:30:10.800
excited about what was happening, but they were even more excited about the potential for the future.
638
00:30:11.784 --> 00:30:15.900
and I think sometime last year you could really say we flipped
639
00:30:16.101 --> 00:30:19.260
and I would call it a phase change, a phase transition
640
00:30:19.300 --> 00:30:22.380
and in my mind this is the largest phase transition
641
00:30:22.581 --> 00:30:25.840
that crypto has ever gone through and probably will ever go through
642
00:30:26.605 --> 00:30:28.779
and I'll try to explain a little bit what I mean
643
00:30:29.828 --> 00:30:31.280
talking through a few examples
644
00:30:33.031 --> 00:30:34.360
and hope to convince you of that as well
645
00:30:34.662 --> 00:30:37.460
but I really think that going forward
646
00:30:37.742 --> 00:30:40.320
a lot of how we have thought historically about crypto
647
00:30:40.320 --> 00:30:45.359
about Ethereum needs to be rethought, not necessarily thrown away, but rethought and
648
00:30:45.922 --> 00:30:47.394
basically mapped into this new time.
649
00:30:51.102 --> 00:30:54.740
Real-world Ethereum, the first time I at least came across the term, and I think actually
650
00:30:54.861 --> 00:30:59.320
this is where it originates, I couldn't find any earlier mention, is a good friend of mine,
651
00:30:59.420 --> 00:30:59.979
DC Posh.
652
00:31:00.460 --> 00:31:05.580
He ran a few events called Real-World Ethereum starting February of last year and then also
653
00:31:05.620 --> 00:31:07.380
throughout last year, this year a little bit.
654
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:20.440
And the idea was kind of we'd been talking a little bit and we both had this feeling that somehow Ethereum was still kind of like stuck in this sandbox mode when it felt like the real world was finally coming and knocking at the door.
655
00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:26.400
And we both had like some trouble understanding like what exactly does it imply?
656
00:31:26.520 --> 00:31:32.260
Like how does that change how we think about the protocol?
657
00:31:32.802 --> 00:31:38.520
And I would even maybe go so far, you know, if you compare it to AI, it's maybe a bit more like of a punchy kind of comparison.
658
00:31:39.682 --> 00:31:41.438
AI existed pre-GPT, right?
659
00:31:41.780 --> 00:31:45.500
And there was a lot of very useful real-world applications of AI.
660
00:31:46.203 --> 00:31:47.900
But then there was the chat GPT moment.
661
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:58.080
And the chat GPT moment really turned it from an industry where it made sense for you to always live a little bit in the future, plan more for the long term to something where adoption was happening right now.
662
00:31:58.605 --> 00:31:59.655
and people scrambled to build,
663
00:32:00.340 --> 00:32:03.480
you know, famously XAI got started in less than a year.
664
00:32:03.820 --> 00:32:05.740
You couldn't do five-year plans anymore.
665
00:32:05.820 --> 00:32:08.620
You had to actually focus on the here and now.
666
00:32:08.980 --> 00:32:10.720
And I would argue that crypto actually,
667
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:12.860
in a way, through last year,
668
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:14.440
it was not one single moment so much,
669
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:16.660
but it had this perfect storm of different factors.
670
00:32:17.280 --> 00:32:18.800
The maturity of the tech stack,
671
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:20.299
and that's across, that's the chains,
672
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:21.519
that's the wallets,
673
00:32:22.586 --> 00:32:24.600
that's all the standards, the on-ramps,
674
00:32:24.681 --> 00:32:26.140
like everything in the tech stack
675
00:32:26.180 --> 00:32:30.120
basically got to a point where it was good enough and you could start really using it in the real
676
00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:30.441
world.
677
00:32:30.964 --> 00:32:34.580
Of course, there was the change in the US regulatory environment that I would say is more
678
00:32:34.600 --> 00:32:39.280
like it was a removal of this inhibiting factor that really, I think, had quite the chilling
679
00:32:39.380 --> 00:32:41.007
effect in crypto until that point.
680
00:32:41.469 --> 00:32:44.400
And then I would say stablecoins, not as the first time
681
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.797
crypto hit PMF, but I think the first time it had hit real world PMF, right?
682
00:32:48.817 --> 00:32:49.580
The very first time,
683
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:53.440
and obviously stablecoins had been around for a while, but it became obvious that there's actually
684
00:32:53.560 --> 00:32:59.420
something here for the real world hopefully only the first of many i wanted to to think a little
685
00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:06.020
bit through the implications of like how that changed how we on the l1 side approach things
686
00:33:06.120 --> 00:33:09.280
and maybe the broader what it means for the broader ecosystem but i wanted to start where
687
00:33:09.621 --> 00:33:15.200
where i'm basically the most of an expert which of course is the ethereum technical roadmap and
688
00:33:15.220 --> 00:33:21.880
then zoom out a little bit towards the end so um what does this mean for the technical roadmap
689
00:33:22.341 --> 00:33:31.160
If you look back in history, I think one of Ethereum's core strengths over the last 10 years has always been that it had the right long-term plans.
690
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:32.760
It was always pointed in the right direction.
691
00:33:32.860 --> 00:33:35.640
It always had these very ambitious projects and it was able to deliver on them.
692
00:33:36.101 --> 00:33:40.160
It started with proof of stake, the beacon chain, then the merge.
693
00:33:40.300 --> 00:33:42.480
People these days forget that those were two separate things.
694
00:33:42.881 --> 00:33:48.220
The proof of stake was a huge effort and then separately bringing the existing chain into the proof of stake system was also a huge effort.
695
00:33:48.763 --> 00:33:52.360
the roll-up-centric roadmap, multi-year project,
696
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:58.340
and more recent ones, ZKVM got started already as part of the roll-up-centric roadmap,
697
00:33:58.420 --> 00:34:02.860
but now we're talking about real-time ZKVM, which is an entirely new level,
698
00:34:03.261 --> 00:34:06.840
and it's a huge ambition, but we are making very good progress towards that.
699
00:34:07.221 --> 00:34:09.240
And then most recently, an example, Lean Ethereum.
700
00:34:10.103 --> 00:34:15.000
And I would argue that five years ago, this was all that mattered, in a sense,
701
00:34:15.160 --> 00:34:17.020
from the L1 perspective, not from the application layer,
702
00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:20.680
But from the L1 perspective, what mattered was, are you pointed in the right direction?
703
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.180
Do you have the right long-term ambition?
704
00:34:22.640 --> 00:34:25.498
And do you have the technical capabilities to execute on those ambitions?
705
00:34:26.481 --> 00:34:28.520
And I think the answer was uniquely yes for Ethereum.
706
00:34:28.660 --> 00:34:33.140
And that's why Ethereum did outcompete a lot of the competitors back in the day, right?
707
00:34:33.180 --> 00:34:35.080
I think because that was Ethereum's unique strength.
708
00:34:36.680 --> 00:34:42.560
But I think in the age of real-world Ethereum, only ever living five years in the future
709
00:34:43.188 --> 00:34:44.059
is no longer good enough.
710
00:34:45.264 --> 00:34:49.500
and I want to take as a specific example,
711
00:34:49.922 --> 00:34:52.180
I said the talk would be about Ethereum L1 scaling.
712
00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:54.900
So, you know, you remember these roadmap diagrams
713
00:34:55.003 --> 00:34:55.680
by Vitalik, right?
714
00:34:55.720 --> 00:34:57.560
Like really, really amazing in depth,
715
00:34:58.060 --> 00:35:00.480
but I would want you to notice two aspects of that.
716
00:35:00.682 --> 00:35:01.232
This is from 2022.
717
00:35:02.861 --> 00:35:05.200
Aspect one, breadth first, right?
718
00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:07.880
Like there is no like one, two, three priorities on this list.
719
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:09.340
There's like 50 different topics
720
00:35:09.442 --> 00:35:10.580
that all happen in parallel, right?
721
00:35:10.620 --> 00:35:13.620
It was always this approach of like, we don't yet know.
722
00:35:13.700 --> 00:35:22.040
It was basically exploring the technical roadmap of where a smart contract blockchain could go in this like wild exploratory mode.
723
00:35:22.160 --> 00:35:26.740
Like, let's see exactly like what of these things basically work, which ones don't work and so on.
724
00:35:27.140 --> 00:35:29.380
And then, so breadth first, one observation.
725
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:39.820
Other observation, I'm not sure you can probably not read it, but this little box here has on the left, snarks for L1 EVM and then on the right, increase L1 gas limit.
726
00:35:40.241 --> 00:35:47.000
So the point was, the L1 gas limit increase was basically like meant as this endpoint of this multi-year journey, right?
727
00:35:47.060 --> 00:35:50.560
Like there's no other box on this diagram that says increase L1 gas limit.
728
00:35:50.660 --> 00:35:52.120
It was the very endpoint.
729
00:35:52.300 --> 00:35:58.480
And I think that really is emblematic for the mindset of the time, which I mean, I agreed with.
730
00:35:58.681 --> 00:36:02.540
I really think for 2022, that was the right approach to blockchains.
731
00:36:02.823 --> 00:36:04.117
I don't think it's the right approach for 2025.
732
00:36:05.044 --> 00:36:07.300
and actually think Vitalik and everyone by now,
733
00:36:07.941 --> 00:36:10.780
we all, I think we all have made that adjustment in our minds.
734
00:36:13.443 --> 00:36:15.200
And so, yeah, basically, as I said, right,
735
00:36:15.260 --> 00:36:16.860
like long-term plans, breadth first.
736
00:36:18.243 --> 00:36:20.060
And then importantly, real-world Ethereum
737
00:36:20.221 --> 00:36:22.200
does not mean throw away the five-year plan
738
00:36:22.281 --> 00:36:23.620
because I still believe,
739
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:25.280
and maybe some people have lost conviction,
740
00:36:25.644 --> 00:36:27.220
that I still very strongly believe
741
00:36:27.260 --> 00:36:30.240
that Ethereum, that is Ethereum's unique strength.
742
00:36:30.481 --> 00:36:31.800
I think Ethereum is uniquely good
743
00:36:31.881 --> 00:36:33.920
at basically drowning out the noise
744
00:36:34.101 --> 00:36:36.360
and understanding exactly where do we have to go long-term.
745
00:36:36.841 --> 00:36:38.700
But it is no longer good enough.
746
00:36:38.860 --> 00:36:40.140
It is no longer good enough.
747
00:36:41.183 --> 00:36:45.780
And the six, the 12-month plans also really, really, really matter.
748
00:36:46.900 --> 00:36:49.080
So what does that mean?
749
00:36:49.521 --> 00:36:52.360
Like, again, I said I wanted to take L1 scaling as a case study.
750
00:36:52.661 --> 00:36:54.880
So what has happened over the last 12 months?
751
00:36:57.042 --> 00:37:00.158
Well, one thing that happened is, this is from April,
752
00:37:01.063 --> 00:37:04.140
We had the changes at the Ethereum Foundation.
753
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:16.620
We had Tomas and Shaowei come in and in their kind of welcome blog post, they were talking about next 12 months, here are three priorities, right?
754
00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:20.138
And you notice different in both of these dimensions.
755
00:37:21.283 --> 00:37:23.720
It's the plan for the next 12 months, not the next five years.
756
00:37:24.181 --> 00:37:25.918
And it's three priorities, not 50.
757
00:37:26.861 --> 00:37:28.700
And I think that was a really, really important adjustment.
758
00:37:28.861 --> 00:37:31.260
doesn't mean work on everything else stopped, right?
759
00:37:31.281 --> 00:37:32.060
It was just saying like,
760
00:37:32.120 --> 00:37:34.019
hey, we need to start to also have
761
00:37:34.484 --> 00:37:35.860
specific short-term priorities.
762
00:37:37.686 --> 00:37:39.580
And then just like a month later,
763
00:37:39.681 --> 00:37:41.220
we also specifically took all the teams
764
00:37:41.402 --> 00:37:42.399
in the Ethereum Foundation,
765
00:37:42.560 --> 00:37:43.380
all the technical teams
766
00:37:44.165 --> 00:37:46.600
and restructured them a little bit
767
00:37:46.884 --> 00:37:47.719
to specifically say,
768
00:37:48.003 --> 00:37:49.460
hey, these three priorities,
769
00:37:49.640 --> 00:37:52.980
they're directly driving our attention
770
00:37:53.264 --> 00:37:54.600
and our resource allocation, right?
771
00:37:54.620 --> 00:37:56.020
Like it really was like a change
772
00:37:56.464 --> 00:37:58.040
in how the Ethereum Foundation operated.
773
00:37:58.180 --> 00:38:04.300
And I think it was a very important change to align with the needs of this kind of this real world Ethereum moment.
774
00:38:08.021 --> 00:38:10.675
So why is L1 scaling on that list?
775
00:38:12.022 --> 00:38:13.479
Like what made it one of those priorities?
776
00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:15.040
Well, so what was the story?
777
00:38:15.660 --> 00:38:22.820
At the beginning of the year, we were already at almost four years of no throughput increase of Ethereum.
778
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:30.760
We'd been at 30 million gas for almost four years, or 15 million before we had the 50-59 upgrade that introduced the target max.
779
00:38:32.367 --> 00:38:33.620
And we had the plan, right?
780
00:38:33.640 --> 00:38:38.200
We had the long-term plan, the right long-term plan towards real-time L1ZK EVM.
781
00:38:38.923 --> 00:38:40.880
But we were only halfway through that plan, right?
782
00:38:41.581 --> 00:38:44.760
And the lesson was, this is no longer good enough.
783
00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:45.680
We have to act now.
784
00:38:46.102 --> 00:38:47.560
So what to do?
785
00:38:48.310 --> 00:38:48.920
What happened, right?
786
00:38:48.980 --> 00:39:02.780
So first of all, I think actually this is one of those moments where, again, that's why I think over the last year and then beginning of this year, there was so much tension because I really feel like everyone was kind of was feeling this change, but it was having a hard time putting the finger on it.
787
00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:09.420
And so I think a lot of, there's a lot of credit as many times in Ethereum's history to the community again.
788
00:39:10.025 --> 00:39:11.820
and I mean you know Eric had a bit of a crash
789
00:39:11.901 --> 00:39:13.419
out afterwards but like still
790
00:39:14.267 --> 00:39:15.820
I really think like huge
791
00:39:15.901 --> 00:39:17.638
credit to him to everyone
792
00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:17.884
here
793
00:39:19.970 --> 00:39:21.760
this was a push that came from the community first
794
00:39:21.841 --> 00:39:23.800
right to say hey look we need
795
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:25.599
to push the gas limit we had like this
796
00:39:25.741 --> 00:39:27.840
there was this pump the gas effort
797
00:39:27.982 --> 00:39:28.935
that said look we need to
798
00:39:29.401 --> 00:39:30.108
do something now
799
00:39:31.966 --> 00:39:33.800
so that technically already started
800
00:39:33.982 --> 00:39:35.680
March of last year as I said right like this
801
00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:37.880
conversation happened these conversations all happened
802
00:39:37.941 --> 00:39:39.060
like throughout last year.
803
00:39:39.500 --> 00:39:40.480
And then January,
804
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.020
there was a renewed push
805
00:39:42.102 --> 00:39:42.540
of like saying,
806
00:39:42.640 --> 00:39:43.680
look, it's time.
807
00:39:44.244 --> 00:39:44.539
And indeed,
808
00:39:45.025 --> 00:39:45.720
I think late,
809
00:39:45.962 --> 00:39:47.180
early February of this year,
810
00:39:47.682 --> 00:39:49.320
we went more for symbolic,
811
00:39:49.460 --> 00:39:49.920
not symbolic,
812
00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:50.874
but like it was a 20% bump,
813
00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:51.890
30 to 36 million,
814
00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:53.340
but it was basically the signal
815
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:53.740
of like, hey,
816
00:39:54.782 --> 00:39:56.020
we really need to scale, right?
817
00:39:56.381 --> 00:39:57.500
And so that's why then also
818
00:39:57.562 --> 00:39:58.280
the Ethereum Foundation,
819
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:00.620
like people on the protocol side,
820
00:40:00.720 --> 00:40:01.640
the core devs broadly,
821
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:02.399
not just the EF,
822
00:40:03.246 --> 00:40:04.000
came together and were like,
823
00:40:04.040 --> 00:40:04.920
look, this really needs
824
00:40:04.981 --> 00:40:06.100
to be short-term priority.
825
00:40:09.689 --> 00:40:14.280
so how much do we want to scale right on the left there's a blog post by Vitalik also from
826
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:20.140
February of this year saying like hey even within the Royal Obsidian Roadmap like say a 10x seems
827
00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:24.920
like a good idea right like we need more scale even just for that and then we had Dankrad you
828
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.720
I mean you've heard him just now like scale is really good scale is good for DeFi scale is good
829
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:35.040
for many many things had this proposal that's 100x over four years and then Justin you know
830
00:40:35.100 --> 00:40:40.600
Justin is always on a different scale, just reminded us that with ZKVM, of course, everything's
831
00:40:40.640 --> 00:40:42.500
possible, 1000x, like why not, right?
832
00:40:42.540 --> 00:40:45.700
So like 10x, 100x, 1000x, where are we actually going?
833
00:40:48.342 --> 00:40:50.560
Well, actually, I would say those are all not so different, right?
834
00:40:50.600 --> 00:40:54.180
Like 10x in two years, 100x in four years, 1000x in six years, that all comes down to
835
00:40:54.546 --> 00:40:55.320
3x per year.
836
00:40:56.080 --> 00:41:01.760
And so I think that is basically a realistic target for scaling.
837
00:41:02.643 --> 00:41:07.940
and importantly right like I'm not I would say out of those out of those different time scales
838
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.380
the one that I'm maybe the most uncertain about and we'll talk about it in a second is this kind
839
00:41:11.380 --> 00:41:16.620
of medium term they're like maybe two three years out but the point is again we have great long-term
840
00:41:16.680 --> 00:41:20.980
plan and now let's not let's not think about two three let's for now just focus on the next six
841
00:41:21.120 --> 00:41:26.140
twelve months right and that I think really was the core lesson and so we are now six months in
842
00:41:26.461 --> 00:41:30.180
depending on when you start to count whether the blog post that originally announced the priorities
843
00:41:30.361 --> 00:41:33.600
or then the reorg that actually aligned the work
844
00:41:33.661 --> 00:41:35.539
at the Ethereum Foundation to help deliver this.
845
00:41:36.524 --> 00:41:37.760
We were roughly six months in,
846
00:41:38.143 --> 00:41:39.140
so halfway through that period.
847
00:41:40.483 --> 00:41:43.080
And we had, we're just coming up to a second bump
848
00:41:43.201 --> 00:41:44.860
that we were able to deliver here.
849
00:41:45.123 --> 00:41:46.020
So initially in July,
850
00:41:46.401 --> 00:41:48.440
we were able to just find a few easy wins
851
00:41:48.581 --> 00:41:52.060
like client optimizations that took relatively short time
852
00:41:52.080 --> 00:41:54.420
and we went to 45 million, I guess.
853
00:41:54.881 --> 00:41:56.560
And then it took a few more months
854
00:41:56.741 --> 00:41:59.120
to have another batch of client improvements ready.
855
00:41:59.443 --> 00:42:00.353
so now we had 60 million.
856
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:06.000
Importantly, it's not like any increase from this point onwards
857
00:42:06.121 --> 00:42:07.720
will take longer and longer time
858
00:42:08.083 --> 00:42:10.160
because all of this was in a way hard mode
859
00:42:10.261 --> 00:42:12.400
because that was without being able to make any changes
860
00:42:12.461 --> 00:42:13.380
to the protocol itself.
861
00:42:14.100 --> 00:42:18.240
So the 60 million, we are rolling that out together
862
00:42:18.301 --> 00:42:19.240
with the Fusaka hard fork,
863
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:21.200
but it's not yet enabled by anything in Fusaka.
864
00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:23.980
That is basically something that we're ready for today,
865
00:42:24.201 --> 00:42:25.380
even before Fusaka goes live.
866
00:42:26.062 --> 00:42:27.400
Once Fusaka is live,
867
00:42:27.681 --> 00:42:31.797
there's actually some small improvements in there that will allow us to go even higher 80 120 million
868
00:42:32.700 --> 00:42:38.279
some like this early next year and then if you think back right like we started maybe in in in
869
00:42:38.801 --> 00:42:45.580
may of this year um early next year we go to 80 120 million that's roughly 3x um from where we
870
00:42:45.640 --> 00:42:52.920
started with the 36 million so first year checkbox we are on track right okay so works um beyond 12
871
00:42:53.181 --> 00:42:53.464
months.
872
00:42:53.827 --> 00:42:54.272
Good news.
873
00:42:54.312 --> 00:42:55.100
I think we can actually
874
00:42:55.161 --> 00:42:56.918
stay on this course for a while at least.
875
00:42:56.958 --> 00:42:57.120
Let's
876
00:42:57.182 --> 00:42:57.398
see.
877
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:00.900
Glamsterdam, the next hard fork upcoming
878
00:43:01.021 --> 00:43:02.455
next year, another 3x
879
00:43:03.223 --> 00:43:04.113
is very realistic.
880
00:43:04.174 --> 00:43:04.720
Not guaranteed.
881
00:43:05.020 --> 00:43:07.100
A lot of hard work left, but very realistic.
882
00:43:07.581 --> 00:43:09.280
And then the two hard forks afterwards,
883
00:43:09.501 --> 00:43:10.760
H star, I star, how we call them,
884
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:12.800
another 3x, very, very
885
00:43:13.164 --> 00:43:14.500
possible, very plausible.
886
00:43:15.884 --> 00:43:16.920
Beyond that, we will
887
00:43:16.981 --> 00:43:18.899
start to need help from the ZK
888
00:43:18.980 --> 00:43:20.940
EVM effort most likely, but the timelines
889
00:43:21.082 --> 00:43:22.640
actually align that this is not unrealistic.
890
00:43:23.602 --> 00:43:27.660
And I think I wanted to take that opportunity to come back a little bit.
891
00:43:27.740 --> 00:43:31.900
ZKVM to me symbolizes this, like the old Ethereum strength, right?
892
00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:37.040
Like the thing we should not give up just because we are now focused on the short term.
893
00:43:38.200 --> 00:43:47.580
And so I just wanted to say ZKVM to me, real time ZKVM is also a really amazing topic that showcases Ethereum's continued strengths, right?
894
00:43:47.660 --> 00:43:50.960
So many, many people doing amazing work in this effort.
895
00:43:51.021 --> 00:43:51.900
but I wanted to highlight too,
896
00:43:52.340 --> 00:43:56.000
Justin, who I would call our ambassador to the future.
897
00:43:56.520 --> 00:43:58.420
I really think he is uniquely able
898
00:43:58.481 --> 00:44:00.340
to just always live five years in the future
899
00:44:00.763 --> 00:44:02.840
and see where the tech should be going, right?
900
00:44:03.341 --> 00:44:05.340
And basically like help us bring it
901
00:44:05.482 --> 00:44:06.980
from the future into the present.
902
00:44:07.100 --> 00:44:09.520
And I think he's been doing an absolutely fantastic job
903
00:44:09.862 --> 00:44:12.140
of that in the past and is continuing to do that.
904
00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:14.780
And ZKVM, Lean Ethereum, amazing.
905
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:16.151
And then we have Kev.
906
00:44:17.304 --> 00:44:19.000
And Kev actually joined the Ethereum Foundation
907
00:44:19.161 --> 00:44:21.260
only like, I don't know, but at this point,
908
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.034
like one, two years ago, full-time,
909
00:44:25.006 --> 00:44:26.140
had been doing amazing work before.
910
00:44:26.160 --> 00:44:27.800
He has invented Noir,
911
00:44:28.402 --> 00:44:32.080
that you might know from the Aztec side.
912
00:44:33.081 --> 00:44:34.660
Absolutely amazing engineer, right?
913
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:37.280
And he's now leading the engineering side of that effort, right?
914
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:39.220
And so it's no longer just the,
915
00:44:39.540 --> 00:44:42.460
let's do the research forever until it's like fully, fully finished.
916
00:44:42.860 --> 00:44:45.940
Let's actually prioritize engineering as soon as we possibly can.
917
00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:47.580
And let's try to find ways.
918
00:44:47.801 --> 00:44:52.060
with ckvm there's actually a path where we can possibly start to get some of the benefits
919
00:44:52.722 --> 00:44:57.700
um progressively over time and so so kev is really spearheading that effort and i personally am
920
00:44:58.041 --> 00:45:02.300
very very excited to see um where that's going and i think again this symbolizes this like
921
00:45:02.882 --> 00:45:07.840
this um let's not throw everything away but let's find a way to balance the short term and the long
922
00:45:07.900 --> 00:45:14.460
term because that's what this moment in time calls for so that was the part that i'm the most
923
00:45:14.864 --> 00:45:16.300
of an expert on Ethereum roadmap.
924
00:45:17.141 --> 00:45:18.940
Now I wanted to briefly talk about two other things.
925
00:45:19.040 --> 00:45:21.100
The first one is like the smaller concentric circle
926
00:45:21.160 --> 00:45:23.880
around that, what some people call Ethereum strategy.
927
00:45:25.200 --> 00:45:27.660
And there, I just want to say that like in the past,
928
00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:29.140
I think five years ago again, right?
929
00:45:29.200 --> 00:45:31.400
Like blockchains that were too focused,
930
00:45:31.540 --> 00:45:34.040
too obsessed with strategy were doing something wrong, right?
931
00:45:34.100 --> 00:45:36.580
Because back then, what you really needed to get right
932
00:45:37.004 --> 00:45:38.660
was the tech, was the long-term plans.
933
00:45:39.401 --> 00:45:41.113
But now I think it is important
934
00:45:42.180 --> 00:45:45.460
that we at least also consider kind of these strategic questions.
935
00:45:45.541 --> 00:45:46.652
And I just wanted to show a few up.
936
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:48.200
Oh, that's unfortunate.
937
00:45:48.582 --> 00:45:50.140
For me, that was one line, but it doesn't matter.
938
00:45:51.744 --> 00:45:52.940
Just a few quick mentions, right?
939
00:45:53.020 --> 00:45:55.220
Like, Dankrad mentioned L1 DeFi, right?
940
00:45:55.260 --> 00:45:58.560
Like, what exactly, like, what do we need to do on the L1?
941
00:45:58.700 --> 00:46:03.120
What do we need to prioritize to be the best continued home for DeFi, right?
942
00:46:03.160 --> 00:46:04.400
Like, how can we best support DeFi?
943
00:46:04.540 --> 00:46:08.440
Is that more scale, shorter slot times, other things,
944
00:46:08.540 --> 00:46:10.120
maybe other non-technical things, like, right?
945
00:46:10.180 --> 00:46:11.820
Like, what is our strategy behind there?
946
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:12.880
not just the technical side.
947
00:46:13.501 --> 00:46:15.080
Real world asset issuance, right?
948
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:16.820
The assets are coming on chain
949
00:46:17.283 --> 00:46:19.900
and it's important that we are intentional about it.
950
00:46:19.940 --> 00:46:21.259
Like what is the desired architecture?
951
00:46:21.460 --> 00:46:23.380
Are they supposed to be issued on all the chains
952
00:46:23.541 --> 00:46:27.160
and then interoperate like through intermediaries?
953
00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:28.600
Are they supposed to be issued on one chain
954
00:46:28.661 --> 00:46:29.960
and then propagate through the ecosystem?
955
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.160
Like how are these bridges supposed to work?
956
00:46:32.863 --> 00:46:34.820
All of this needs intentional design
957
00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:38.440
and that's something that we need to get right.
958
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:41.480
L1s, L2s, I think it's been a big topic, right?
959
00:46:41.540 --> 00:46:46.680
And I think the biggest question there is how can the L1 continue to support the L2s in the best way possible?
960
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:49.060
So that is with data scaling, right?
961
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:51.340
That is also with faster finality.
962
00:46:52.261 --> 00:46:54.580
But that might also be with better interop.
963
00:46:54.660 --> 00:46:56.260
That might also be with non-technical things.
964
00:46:57.761 --> 00:47:04.040
It also means how can we best help guide the L2s towards the most synergistic outcome with the L1, right?
965
00:47:04.080 --> 00:47:05.780
That's also a non-trivial question.
966
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:08.160
And then third, I want to briefly mention this.
967
00:47:08.180 --> 00:47:12.120
maybe it's a bit more controversial, but like, I think the question is also from a strategic
968
00:47:12.261 --> 00:47:14.594
point of view, is the L2s even the right abstraction, right?
969
00:47:14.614 --> 00:47:15.640
Like what about these other
970
00:47:16.683 --> 00:47:21.559
important allies of Ethereum, Polygon, Gnosis, these kinds of chains come to mind, right?
971
00:47:21.580 --> 00:47:21.720
They're
972
00:47:21.720 --> 00:47:22.664
not technically L2s.
973
00:47:22.945 --> 00:47:25.456
Clearly they are somehow part of the Ethereum family.
974
00:47:25.496 --> 00:47:26.320
Like how do we best
975
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:26.983
express that?
976
00:47:27.284 --> 00:47:31.180
How can we make sure that broader Ethereum ecosystem is all synergistic with each
977
00:47:31.220 --> 00:47:31.401
other?
978
00:47:31.642 --> 00:47:35.000
And then of course, just wanted to mention it, not going to go into it, but ETH, Ethereum,
979
00:47:35.243 --> 00:47:36.320
What is the relationship?
980
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.060
And how can we make sure that is synergistic as well?
981
00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:42.380
And here, point is, again, the lesson of real-world Ethereum is just to say,
982
00:47:42.460 --> 00:47:45.440
hey, we need to keep iterating on these questions.
983
00:47:45.560 --> 00:47:49.660
We need to make progress on the timescale of 12 months, not five years.
984
00:47:50.102 --> 00:47:51.020
And I'm basically out of time.
985
00:47:51.140 --> 00:47:54.480
I'll very quickly do the last point because it's also the one that I'm the least of an
986
00:47:54.500 --> 00:47:55.660
expert on, Ethereum ecosystem.
987
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:57.920
What are maybe potential lessons for the Ethereum ecosystem?
988
00:48:00.365 --> 00:48:00.860
First slide.
989
00:48:01.561 --> 00:48:04.238
I actually had a colleague that wore this sweater a couple years ago, but then I
990
00:48:05.241 --> 00:48:06.005
didn't find a photo.
991
00:48:06.025 --> 00:48:09.200
So I just searched on X and found someone else posting this as well.
992
00:48:09.841 --> 00:48:11.310
I think there was swag a couple of years ago.
993
00:48:11.713 --> 00:48:12.940
I swear, mom, my job is real.
994
00:48:13.921 --> 00:48:17.216
I thought that was hilarious because I had this exact same problem, right?
995
00:48:17.256 --> 00:48:17.980
Explaining to my
996
00:48:18.141 --> 00:48:21.615
friends, family, like what my job was a couple of years ago, almost impossible.
997
00:48:22.178 --> 00:48:22.760
And I would say
998
00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:25.612
real-world Ethereum means that needs to flip now.
999
00:48:25.893 --> 00:48:27.640
Like if you are still struggling a lot,
1000
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:32.217
explaining why what you're doing makes sense, that should at least be a warning sign.
1001
00:48:32.277 --> 00:48:32.940
And I'll pick
1002
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.440
on like a few examples because they're good friends the projects but like you know if you do
1003
00:48:37.301 --> 00:48:45.660
um content coins if you do um intersubjective work tokens right these can make sense i'm not
1004
00:48:45.700 --> 00:48:49.960
saying this this this does not make sense but at least the fact that that might be hard to explain
1005
00:48:50.020 --> 00:48:55.400
to your mom should now be a warning sign we have real attraction we should understand that in the
1006
00:48:55.460 --> 00:49:02.020
past a lot of this circular inner words facing um attraction on ether on ethereum was necessary to
1007
00:49:02.040 --> 00:49:06.820
build the infrastructure but now that we have real attraction let's not get distracted by all the rest
1008
00:49:07.221 --> 00:49:12.840
and then last slide and i'm done that should not mean lose ethereum's ambition right like that is
1009
00:49:13.021 --> 00:49:17.320
very core to my heart like i think if you look back there was a lot of these like this dreamy
1010
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:21.900
time of ethereum where people really had these like big ambitions like chains as these sovereign
1011
00:49:22.121 --> 00:49:28.440
entities the sovereign systems not just infrastructure icos as this amazing way of like
1012
00:49:29.044 --> 00:49:31.140
leveling up capital formation in a new way.
1013
00:49:32.202 --> 00:49:35.460
DAOs as the next generation of human coordination.
1014
00:49:35.560 --> 00:49:36.760
And even prediction markets, you would say,
1015
00:49:36.820 --> 00:49:39.200
well, aren't prediction markets at least a crypto success story?
1016
00:49:39.481 --> 00:49:40.280
In some sense, yes.
1017
00:49:40.441 --> 00:49:41.760
But if you look at the account examples,
1018
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:45.140
I would say they're relatively thin in terms of the actual on-chain part.
1019
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:47.700
And even there, I think we could do more.
1020
00:49:48.221 --> 00:49:50.000
There were all these ideas around Futaki, right?
1021
00:49:50.081 --> 00:49:50.860
Using it for governance.
1022
00:49:51.901 --> 00:49:55.900
We should not just make crypto become infrastructure
1023
00:49:56.123 --> 00:49:57.219
now that we hit the real world.
1024
00:49:57.768 --> 00:49:58.560
so that's all from my side
1025
00:49:58.621 --> 00:49:59.720
sorry for running a little bit over
1026
00:49:59.883 --> 00:50:00.939
but I just wanted to leave you with
1027
00:50:01.426 --> 00:50:02.380
real world Ethereum is here
1028
00:50:02.968 --> 00:50:03.740
let's make the most of it
1029
00:50:03.802 --> 00:50:04.076
thank you
1030
00:50:04.326 --> 00:50:04.740
thank you Anzac
1031
00:50:05.988 --> 00:50:07.800
I do want to fit in time for one question
1032
00:50:07.901 --> 00:50:08.993
if we have a question
1033
00:50:09.641 --> 00:50:10.719
yeah up in front
1034
00:50:12.628 --> 00:50:15.240
what would the most successful scenario
1035
00:50:15.423 --> 00:50:16.239
for the foundation
1036
00:50:16.925 --> 00:50:18.660
be one in which Ethereum achieves
1037
00:50:19.045 --> 00:50:20.260
such a high scalability
1038
00:50:21.207 --> 00:50:22.740
that offers so much black space
1039
00:50:22.983 --> 00:50:23.858
that the transaction cost
1040
00:50:24.548 --> 00:50:25.380
busts marginally
1041
00:50:25.762 --> 00:50:30.380
So finally, the capacity could cost a few ethers to use all the capacity of Ethereum.
1042
00:50:30.741 --> 00:50:33.020
Is this the most successful scenario?
1043
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:38.600
To have so much block space that finally only a few Ethereums can cost all the transactions?
1044
00:50:39.862 --> 00:50:44.700
I don't think the strategy is to scale the L1 so that it's the only chain you ever need.
1045
00:50:45.227 --> 00:50:45.960
That was the question, right?
1046
00:50:46.660 --> 00:50:51.700
I think even with amazing magical technology, ZKVM and whatnot,
1047
00:50:52.162 --> 00:50:56.920
I think once the world comes on chain, the demand for block space is huge.
1048
00:50:57.040 --> 00:51:03.380
And so one, I think there will always be the need for the longer tail of general purpose compute that doesn't happen on the L1 directly.
1049
00:51:03.500 --> 00:51:06.860
I think the L1 will always be for more valuable use cases.
1050
00:51:07.060 --> 00:51:14.280
And then second, and that's in a way even more important, we are seeing a lot, a lot of interest and demand of special purpose execution environments,
1051
00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:23.040
and special purpose L2s for institutions, for applications that want to control more finely the specific properties of the execution system.
1052
00:51:23.100 --> 00:51:31.440
And so I think for those two reasons, I think the future for L2s is very, very exciting and continues to be very exciting.
1053
00:51:32.526 --> 00:51:33.000
Thank you, Ansgar.
1054
00:51:33.700 --> 00:51:33.918
Awesome.
1055
00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:36.780
Ethereum's Layer 2 universe is exploding with choices.
1056
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:40.979
But if you're looking for the best place to park and move your tokens, make your next stop Unichain.
1057
00:51:41.321 --> 00:51:42.020
First, liquidity.
1058
00:51:42.221 --> 00:51:48.979
Unichain hosts the most liquid Uniswap v4 deployment on any Layer 2, giving you deeper pools for flagship pairs like ETH USDC.
1059
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:54.100
More liquidity means better prices, less slippage, and smoother swaps, exactly what traders crave.
1060
00:51:54.221 --> 00:51:55.000
The numbers back it up.
1061
00:51:55.080 --> 00:51:58.819
Unichain leads all Layer 2s in total value locked for Uniswap v4.
1062
00:51:59.140 --> 00:52:04.500
And it's not just deep, it's fast and fully transparent, purpose-built to be the home base for DeFi and cross-chain liquidity.
1063
00:52:04.680 --> 00:52:06.660
When it comes to costs, Unichain is a no-brainer.
1064
00:52:06.761 --> 00:52:10.560
Transaction fees come in about 95% cheaper than Ethereum mainnet.
1065
00:52:10.641 --> 00:52:13.400
slashing the price of creating or accessing liquidity.
1066
00:52:13.580 --> 00:52:14.920
Want to stay in the loop on Unichain?
1067
00:52:15.020 --> 00:52:18.760
Visit unichain.org or follow at Unichain on X for all the updates.
1068
00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:22.580
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1069
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That's what Mantle is pioneering with blockchain for banking,
1070
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a revolutionary new category at the intersection of TradFi and Web3.
1071
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At the heart is UR, the world's first money app built fully on chain.
1072
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It gives you a Swiss IBAN account,
1073
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blending fiat currencies like the euro, the Swiss franc,
1074
00:52:36.620 --> 00:52:39.580
the United States dollar, or the renminbi with crypto all in one place.
1075
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1076
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1077
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1078
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1079
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1080
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Follow Mantle on X at Mantle underscore official for the latest updates on blockchain for banking.
1081
00:53:19.540 --> 00:53:21.900
That's X dot com slash Mantle underscore official.
1082
00:53:22.220 --> 00:53:26.160
Hello, I'm going to talk about Ethereum's DeFi centric strategy.
1083
00:53:28.622 --> 00:53:32.120
So I want to start by talking about revenue.
1084
00:53:32.361 --> 00:53:37.420
and I'm gonna just say like um I think like there's a lot of talks about oh like talking
1085
00:53:37.420 --> 00:53:44.440
about revenue it's bad like do you just want uh ether to be a DCF asset but like let's just like
1086
00:53:44.641 --> 00:53:49.277
go back to the basics and say like revenue just like whatever you think is just a good thing um
1087
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:55.600
like everyone can have their own way of valuing an asset and that's completely up to you and actually
1088
00:53:55.901 --> 00:53:59.560
you can't really tell how to other people how they should value an asset like really like
1089
00:54:00.610 --> 00:54:01.680
everyone will have their own model.
1090
00:54:01.860 --> 00:54:04.780
And like, I guess you can try to convince them
1091
00:54:04.821 --> 00:54:05.780
to use a different models,
1092
00:54:05.940 --> 00:54:07.820
but there's no like guarantee of success.
1093
00:54:08.685 --> 00:54:09.719
And in all those cases,
1094
00:54:10.461 --> 00:54:13.560
like having revenue improves the quality of the asset.
1095
00:54:14.020 --> 00:54:16.620
So if you see an asset as a productive asset by itself,
1096
00:54:16.721 --> 00:54:18.740
like an equity, for example,
1097
00:54:19.101 --> 00:54:20.820
then it's the fundamental basis of the value.
1098
00:54:21.240 --> 00:54:23.140
But even if you think about an asset
1099
00:54:23.201 --> 00:54:24.580
as a memetic store of value,
1100
00:54:24.720 --> 00:54:27.080
then like the number of coins decreases.
1101
00:54:27.260 --> 00:54:29.120
Well, that's good for the store of value, right?
1102
00:54:29.622 --> 00:54:33.080
and of course like there are all kinds of things in between right you don't have to like
1103
00:54:33.562 --> 00:54:38.220
even even like a single personal entity doesn't have to make a choice between one of these two
1104
00:54:38.601 --> 00:54:44.780
they can also say like well it's like a it has like um some productive asset qualities but it
1105
00:54:44.820 --> 00:54:49.860
has a premium due to its liquidity and how other people value it um so yeah like this is kind of
1106
00:54:49.900 --> 00:54:53.940
the basic assumption of this talk that we just want to have some revenue because it makes it
1107
00:54:53.980 --> 00:55:01.460
better and um yeah then we can think about like what is good revenue right and so what we want is
1108
00:55:01.580 --> 00:55:07.120
that um the the revenue should be sustainable so like we want to think about uh things that
1109
00:55:08.525 --> 00:55:12.820
aren't necessarily forever because that's really hard like i mean basically no business like if you
1110
00:55:12.860 --> 00:55:18.500
just leave it forever alone can like just last forever but like we want to think about years
1111
00:55:18.620 --> 00:55:25.720
and decade scales and uh we do want it to be from positive some activity like at least me i mean i
1112
00:55:25.780 --> 00:55:31.279
would feel bad if it's not uh if it's not that so like we want to create value not destroy value so
1113
00:55:32.042 --> 00:55:37.760
we don't want to create a revenue strategy based on meme coins um but i think it makes sense like
1114
00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:43.680
to create a revenue strategy based on real world application like and the question is like what if
1115
00:55:43.720 --> 00:55:47.960
the world's borrowing and lending happened on chain i think that's like the most natural fit
1116
00:55:48.481 --> 00:55:58.280
um for ethereum um so let's talk about revenue from defi so this is um ethereum's uh revenue
1117
00:55:59.162 --> 00:56:05.920
in u.s dollars in um the last few years and um it's maybe not like doesn't look like the most
1118
00:56:06.401 --> 00:56:11.080
um bullish curve curve but it's still um a very serious amount of revenue and we'll come
1119
00:56:11.461 --> 00:56:18.120
like in a bit like why i think it's actually much more much better than it looks um so we still had
1120
00:56:18.702 --> 00:56:24.840
2.5 billion revenue in 2024 that is like a very significant amount like to all the people who say
1121
00:56:25.061 --> 00:56:30.360
oh like we'll never be able to raise serious revenue to like justify our valuation i think
1122
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:36.280
that's insane i think like like on that metric ethereum has been one of the most successful
1123
00:56:37.363 --> 00:56:43.180
projects in all of crypto and actually the pricing power of ethereum i believe is much much higher
1124
00:56:43.300 --> 00:56:48.260
than that like basically when you think about it the current congesting pricing you could also call
1125
00:56:48.300 --> 00:56:55.660
it the minimum viable fee it's like the minimum fee that you raise just to like make the the market
1126
00:56:56.242 --> 00:57:03.300
for block space on ethereum efficient but it's it's not in any way like an attempt to figure out
1127
00:57:03.340 --> 00:57:08.900
what the actual pricing power is like it's like almost certain that if we just set some minimum
1128
00:57:09.020 --> 00:57:14.620
fee on ethereum like say every transaction costs x then like it would be much much more than that
1129
00:57:17.746 --> 00:57:24.660
um and then overall defi is the most proven source of fees in crypto there's a good reason for that
1130
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:31.600
like defi leads to is first a very high value activity and um it's uh least leads to lots of
1131
00:57:31.680 --> 00:57:37.320
contention basically it's like edify creates states that you can only access by interacting
1132
00:57:37.460 --> 00:57:42.519
with that particular chain and you want to do it on a short time horizon so that's why potential
1133
00:57:43.080 --> 00:57:49.880
fees are high ethereum has historically been the most successful like at capturing that and ethereum
1134
00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:56.840
still has very high d5 tvl and even like in terms of new protocols like there are new protocols like
1135
00:57:57.001 --> 00:58:01.820
fluid that's still launched on ethereum l1 so as like why would you even want to give up on that
1136
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:07.200
like it's kind of like an amazing thing like in the past we haven't really like from the
1137
00:58:07.742 --> 00:58:13.000
l1 development side done that much about it but like it seems like we should like it's very natural
1138
00:58:16.147 --> 00:58:21.840
and then we could ask like well we had a different strategy like about providing data
1139
00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:28.760
availability for rollups so could the da revenue replace this um so that's the original like
1140
00:58:28.900 --> 00:58:33.980
rollup centric roadmap like the applications will live on rollups the robs will pay fees to ethereum
1141
00:58:34.060 --> 00:58:43.040
via data availability um and so if we look at um the revenue from blobs it's also um significant
1142
00:58:43.582 --> 00:58:48.379
but it's way way lower like we're talking about maybe one to two million per month um
1143
00:58:50.063 --> 00:58:57.320
and uh so that's like ethereum revenue from blobs for comparison we can like uh look at celestia
1144
00:58:57.481 --> 00:59:01.100
they had like a very big spike initially i don't know where that comes from if that's real
1145
00:59:01.762 --> 00:59:06.740
um but anyway like it's it's like basically orders of magnitude less overall despite having much more
1146
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:14.660
data and so what we can say is like ethereum has a huge premium uh on selling data availability
1147
00:59:14.780 --> 00:59:22.940
compared to other da chains like it's like pretty big 100 to 1000x easily um but there's a problem
1148
00:59:23.101 --> 00:59:29.320
which is that on an absolute level at least we do have to keep um the da pricing pricing low
1149
00:59:29.661 --> 00:59:36.180
because otherwise rollups will switch to alt da so um so like basically like you think oh like
1150
00:59:36.220 --> 00:59:40.099
it's a huge premium so it should be an amazing source of revenue because ethereum is so good at
1151
00:59:40.461 --> 00:59:45.420
edit but it's just like very low on an absolute level and i think like all the analysis that
1152
00:59:46.202 --> 00:59:51.580
me and others have done on this is that this likely remains the case just because it is like
1153
00:59:52.442 --> 00:59:58.180
yeah like data availability is relatively easy to replace if you if you like try to charge a lot for
1154
00:59:58.260 --> 01:00:04.360
it then um rollups can find a different way of getting their data availability and um and
1155
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:09.120
basically since they can get provide almost the same ux to user or pretty much the same ux
1156
01:00:09.581 --> 01:00:14.500
like there's no strong reason not to do that other than like some people shouting on twitter
1157
01:00:16.568 --> 01:00:19.920
um okay so what is the defi centric strategy
1158
01:00:23.165 --> 01:00:32.140
so i see it like this like we want to build an ethereum l1 with a lot of most of maybe all of
1159
01:00:32.200 --> 01:00:39.880
the defi liquidity and then other chains l2s and also l1s because like they can all do this via
1160
01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:45.320
for example intent interop um can access that liquidity so like ethereum kind of becomes
1161
01:00:46.144 --> 01:00:49.040
the defi hub for all of crypto essentially
1162
01:00:51.768 --> 01:00:56.200
and uh maybe even like more like maybe i think like the the basically the big
1163
01:00:56.601 --> 01:01:03.800
gold should be like l1 is the world's liquidity layer we want to bring rwas on chain because like
1164
01:01:03.900 --> 01:01:09.080
together with defy they can provide a valuable service to the world even for those who are not
1165
01:01:09.180 --> 01:01:13.900
interested in crypto assets so like defy without any real world assets has kind of this problem
1166
01:01:14.321 --> 01:01:19.900
so you can now borrow things but like it doesn't help you if you're not also interested in holding
1167
01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:24.400
the assets that you can borrow against so we need to bring the real world assets on chain in order
1168
01:01:24.500 --> 01:01:28.420
to give everyone in the world an actual like DeFi experience
1169
01:01:28.542 --> 01:01:29.439
that they would want to use.
1170
01:01:30.820 --> 01:01:34.820
And yeah, third, we should build interoperability
1171
01:01:34.941 --> 01:01:37.880
that's focused on providing liquidity to other chains
1172
01:01:39.848 --> 01:01:42.440
by using the L1's DeFi ecosystem.
1173
01:01:47.542 --> 01:01:51.280
Yeah, and so the cool thing is like it provides a very natural monetization.
1174
01:01:51.841 --> 01:01:59.720
so this way L1 will provide services for everyone and I mean a lot of people have been questioning
1175
01:01:59.720 --> 01:02:06.940
oh like did we erase Ethereum's network effects by starting the roll-up centric roadmap well with
1176
01:02:07.181 --> 01:02:13.780
with this strategy we actually benefit from all of crypto's network effects like each new crypto
1177
01:02:13.960 --> 01:02:20.460
user will be a new potential Ethereum DeFi user and so basically L2 value accrual will become
1178
01:02:21.022 --> 01:02:27.380
all of crypto value accrual and it also uses ethereum's existing strength like ethereum is
1179
01:02:27.380 --> 01:02:34.260
still leading in defi tvl and defi protocols so it's um it is a very natural fit for ethereum
1180
01:02:34.340 --> 01:02:41.880
where ethereum is now um all we have to do is like actually prioritize it and um start working on it
1181
01:02:42.983 --> 01:02:48.000
so what does it mean basically we have to start fighting like i think in the in the past it
1182
01:02:48.040 --> 01:02:51.293
happened very naturally, like because Ethereum was the only game in town.
1183
01:02:52.317 --> 01:02:53.120
And now the world is
1184
01:02:53.180 --> 01:02:53.743
very different.
1185
01:02:53.763 --> 01:02:57.400
Like there are a lot of other projects that also want to fight for the same.
1186
01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:03.180
So Ethereum will have to start to embrace that fight and embrace DeFi as the main application
1187
01:03:03.321 --> 01:03:04.806
that's going to live on Ethereum L1.
1188
01:03:05.348 --> 01:03:06.091
So what does that mean?
1189
01:03:06.432 --> 01:03:07.336
We need to scale.
1190
01:03:07.858 --> 01:03:08.339
We need to
1191
01:03:09.463 --> 01:03:11.228
think about block times and finality.
1192
01:03:11.248 --> 01:03:12.572
So we need to lower latency.
1193
01:03:12.592 --> 01:03:15.160
We need to think a lot about
1194
01:03:15.220 --> 01:03:16.224
our MEV pipeline.
1195
01:03:16.244 --> 01:03:18.694
I don't think like the way it works right now is ideal.
1196
01:03:18.815 --> 01:03:20.160
I think like it's very
1197
01:03:20.862 --> 01:03:26.360
like I'm very interested in like things like multiple concurrent proposers, basically anything
1198
01:03:26.541 --> 01:03:30.960
that makes people think like this is actually a fair layer where everyone can get their transactions
1199
01:03:31.241 --> 01:03:32.485
in in a short amount of time.
1200
01:03:34.030 --> 01:03:35.394
And we need to think about interop.
1201
01:03:35.755 --> 01:03:37.180
And I think we should like focus on
1202
01:03:37.621 --> 01:03:42.080
how do we build the interop to like maximize this utility of Ethereum as a liquidity layer.
1203
01:03:42.100 --> 01:03:49.800
we need to bring rwa's on chain so we need to uh uh think about them so the important thing is they
1204
01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:54.300
need to be bearer assets because otherwise they can't be usable in defi that's how for example
1205
01:03:54.400 --> 01:04:01.080
stable coins work at the moment like if you hold some stable coin then you're kind of assumed to be
1206
01:04:01.180 --> 01:04:05.860
the actual owner of that asset which is like not what how it works in traditional finance where the
1207
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:11.920
asset is coupled to your identity and um and we need to have liquidity on these reward assets
1208
01:04:12.743 --> 01:04:18.040
and at some point in the future like in order to actually raise the revenue we probably have to add
1209
01:04:18.060 --> 01:04:23.260
some minimum pricing it's probably not right now that we should like maximize the revenue although
1210
01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:26.580
i think it's like worthwhile thinking about some kind of minimum price
1211
01:04:30.888 --> 01:04:37.360
and yeah so this is kind of like the summary of this like the the the broke way is like l2 stone
1212
01:04:37.601 --> 01:04:38.660
accrue value to ETH.
1213
01:04:38.860 --> 01:04:39.798
That was kind of like
1214
01:04:40.607 --> 01:04:42.100
the big worry last year.
1215
01:04:42.180 --> 01:04:42.759
And I think like
1216
01:04:43.205 --> 01:04:44.300
if we properly implement
1217
01:04:44.403 --> 01:04:44.920
the strategy,
1218
01:04:45.062 --> 01:04:46.140
then we'll get to a world
1219
01:04:46.201 --> 01:04:47.360
where all chains
1220
01:04:47.421 --> 01:04:48.299
accrue value to ETH.
1221
01:04:49.343 --> 01:04:49.599
All right.
1222
01:04:49.983 --> 01:04:50.500
Big round of applause
1223
01:04:50.500 --> 01:04:50.858
for Dankrad.
1224
01:04:51.302 --> 01:04:51.677
Thank you.
1225
01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:54.280
Who's got a question?
1226
01:04:54.461 --> 01:04:55.240
We got some time
1227
01:04:55.302 --> 01:04:55.880
for questions.
1228
01:04:56.080 --> 01:04:57.120
That was a very fast hand.
1229
01:04:57.990 --> 01:04:58.240
Thank you.
1230
01:04:58.280 --> 01:04:58.819
Great presentation.
1231
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:00.280
So just question about like,
1232
01:05:00.420 --> 01:05:01.460
does this approach
1233
01:05:01.542 --> 01:05:02.480
really play to
1234
01:05:02.561 --> 01:05:03.640
the L1's strengths?
1235
01:05:03.721 --> 01:05:04.340
So like one thing
1236
01:05:04.361 --> 01:05:04.879
you could say is,
1237
01:05:04.980 --> 01:05:05.660
well, yes,
1238
01:05:05.700 --> 01:05:06.860
you can make the L1 faster.
1239
01:05:07.141 --> 01:05:12.780
you can scale it but ultimately uh defy people are going to want to do the fastest possible chain
1240
01:05:12.860 --> 01:05:18.880
the fastest most scaled possible uh block times and so uh are we going to be making some sacrifices
1241
01:05:18.920 --> 01:05:23.099
to really compete with those chains you know i think of like lighter or whatever like new uh
1242
01:05:23.882 --> 01:05:29.420
defy like speed basically and can the l1 compete really i mean i would say it's both i think yes
1243
01:05:29.701 --> 01:05:35.120
like you have to make sacrifices like the world is full of trade-offs and there are some here and
1244
01:05:35.160 --> 01:05:41.220
I think like there will be some trade-offs I don't think the trade-offs lead us to oh we just have to
1245
01:05:41.420 --> 01:05:48.340
like become like a centralized chain in one data center because there there are other effects at
1246
01:05:48.380 --> 01:05:52.940
play as well like there are network effects which are real on liquidity and like currently ethereum
1247
01:05:53.020 --> 01:05:57.720
has them so like we need to keep those and then like the game that we're playing is very different
1248
01:05:57.820 --> 01:06:04.100
from that the one that other chains are playing so I don't think like as a user like is your primary
1249
01:06:04.902 --> 01:06:10.560
thing like you think oh where do I get the lowest latency no like you want to do what you want to do
1250
01:06:10.640 --> 01:06:17.140
like I want to exchange this asset or I want to borrow or whatever and that is not that is not
1251
01:06:17.220 --> 01:06:22.820
equivalent to having the lowest latencies or the highest scale like it those like are factors that
1252
01:06:23.061 --> 01:06:27.620
add into the amount of liquidity get and so and so on but like ultimately it's the question like
1253
01:06:27.680 --> 01:06:33.119
where do you get the liquidity for the action that you want to do further questions here we go
1254
01:06:34.767 --> 01:06:36.060
Hi, thanks for the presentation.
1255
01:06:37.303 --> 01:06:39.940
Could you help me understand, like, landing down,
1256
01:06:40.020 --> 01:06:41.520
what do you mean exactly by liquidity?
1257
01:06:41.700 --> 01:06:45.778
Do you mean, like, for example, there will be some AMM liquidity on L2s
1258
01:06:46.220 --> 01:06:50.820
and then ARBs will, you know, gradually ARB against the mainnet?
1259
01:06:51.584 --> 01:06:52.880
The same thing for landing protocols?
1260
01:06:53.060 --> 01:06:56.220
Like, just exactly, you know, considering current DeFi,
1261
01:06:56.760 --> 01:07:00.300
how would you explain this with existing protocols?
1262
01:07:02.526 --> 01:07:07.640
yeah i mean i think like it's basically in other words what you what we want is to maximize the
1263
01:07:08.061 --> 01:07:13.160
defy liquidity on l1 so like in terms of market makers we want the ones with the most liquidity
1264
01:07:13.220 --> 01:07:18.840
to be on l1 like in terms of lending protocols the same thing and i think like basically the
1265
01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:24.100
experience so far seems to be that they naturally want to be together like this is all like one big
1266
01:07:24.220 --> 01:07:30.900
ecosystem that wants to sit on one composable layer because that makes it more efficient like
1267
01:07:31.442 --> 01:07:37.080
yeah further question is one more you said why would you give up on a set your presentation
1268
01:07:37.301 --> 01:07:43.440
right so how is moving to tempo not giving up that will be one question and is revenue good
1269
01:07:43.661 --> 01:07:50.760
not an eft culture the thing that you started with the presentation was an eft what an eft culture
1270
01:07:51.221 --> 01:07:59.000
sorry culture culture yes right well first like i mean i i'm moving to tempo for something very
1271
01:07:59.080 --> 01:08:07.820
different and like i um i think that this is the strategy that i believe would be best for ethereum
1272
01:08:07.820 --> 01:08:13.980
i've tried for about half a year i think i've converted some people i think there's still a
1273
01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:22.480
lot of work to be done um i am currently seeing a lot more opportunities and working on real world
1274
01:08:22.540 --> 01:08:28.360
things at at tempo i'm not gonna say that can't change in the future but i think um uh at the
1275
01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:36.080
moment um there's a lot of work to be done on ethereum and um uh i know i don't think like uh
1276
01:08:36.260 --> 01:08:40.880
this is currently deep in ef culture there are very few people who think about this there are
1277
01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:45.040
maybe like a few more than they were in the past, but it's like a small percentage.
1278
01:08:45.905 --> 01:08:46.999
Further questions, one more.
1279
01:08:47.882 --> 01:08:48.979
Hey, great presentation, Dhankrad.
1280
01:08:50.503 --> 01:08:53.480
I substantially agree with this presentation.
1281
01:08:53.861 --> 01:08:59.640
And when you look at the factors you describe around the L1 serving as the hub and hub and
1282
01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:05.700
spokes and the deferral of significant fees until later in Ethereum's growth, either from
1283
01:09:06.322 --> 01:09:09.894
block space saturation or maybe the imposition of a minimum fee.
1284
01:09:10.435 --> 01:09:11.760
To what extent do you see this
1285
01:09:11.900 --> 01:09:17.040
overall vision representing a pivot from where Ethereum has just been gradually headed in the
1286
01:09:17.080 --> 01:09:17.862
past few years?
1287
01:09:19.227 --> 01:09:19.949
Is this a pivot?
1288
01:09:20.250 --> 01:09:23.580
Because to me, it kind of sounds like this is what's been happening
1289
01:09:23.580 --> 01:09:25.647
all along, gradually.
1290
01:09:26.149 --> 01:09:29.320
So you make it kind of sound like this is a radical agenda, but is this not
1291
01:09:29.400 --> 01:09:30.867
just where things have been headed?
1292
01:09:31.931 --> 01:09:33.920
Well, I mean, that's great if it is where things have been
1293
01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:43.440
headed where what i see is that um there are um there are a lot of people who don't want to make
1294
01:09:43.480 --> 01:09:48.620
the trade-offs i do think like basically uh like what is different to like a few years ago is like
1295
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:53.820
what i said before like maybe five years ago ethereum was the only game in town so like
1296
01:09:54.041 --> 01:09:58.500
everything happened naturally on ethereum and so ethereum still has these very strong modes around
1297
01:09:58.561 --> 01:10:00.660
liquidity and so on, so there's a lot happening.
1298
01:10:01.180 --> 01:10:02.218
But I do think that
1299
01:10:03.511 --> 01:10:04.460
if we don't
1300
01:10:04.581 --> 01:10:05.813
keep improving the chain at
1301
01:10:06.681 --> 01:10:08.237
a higher rate than it was
1302
01:10:08.540 --> 01:10:10.620
in the past, then I don't
1303
01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:12.160
think that will stick around forever.
1304
01:10:12.521 --> 01:10:14.420
I think eventually Ethereum would lose that mode.
1305
01:10:15.825 --> 01:10:16.560
And that's where I currently
1306
01:10:16.643 --> 01:10:17.099
see the problem.
1307
01:10:18.043 --> 01:10:19.314
One last round of applause for Dankrad.
1308
01:10:19.334 --> 01:10:20.060
Thank you so much, Dankrad.
1309
01:10:22.763 --> 01:10:23.268
Every welcome.
1310
01:10:23.733 --> 01:10:24.016
Danny Ryan
1311
01:10:24.562 --> 01:10:25.149
to the stage.
1312
01:10:25.231 --> 01:10:25.879
Danny, come on up.
1313
01:10:28.188 --> 01:10:28.358
Hello.
1314
01:10:31.271 --> 01:10:33.580
I actually was at the main venue
1315
01:10:33.882 --> 01:10:35.819
and thought that that was where I was supposed to be
1316
01:10:35.981 --> 01:10:37.359
so I had to quickly come over here
1317
01:10:38.210 --> 01:10:38.919
and on my way
1318
01:10:39.585 --> 01:10:41.139
the cab driver asked me about XRP
1319
01:10:42.048 --> 01:10:43.200
which is very exciting
1320
01:10:44.006 --> 01:10:45.740
I said I didn't know too much about it
1321
01:10:45.740 --> 01:10:47.580
he said BlackRock's been buying it every day
1322
01:10:48.958 --> 01:10:49.059
so
1323
01:10:50.151 --> 01:10:50.960
not investment advice
1324
01:10:53.595 --> 01:10:54.400
David asked me to speak
1325
01:10:55.126 --> 01:10:56.760
I'm a bit oversubscribed this week
1326
01:10:57.003 --> 01:10:57.694
so I said okay
1327
01:10:58.141 --> 01:11:00.020
I'm not making slides
1328
01:11:00.060 --> 01:11:01.560
and he said okay
1329
01:11:02.287 --> 01:11:03.639
and I said to myself
1330
01:11:05.212 --> 01:11:06.260
what can I talk about
1331
01:11:06.746 --> 01:11:07.940
that doesn't require making slides
1332
01:11:07.940 --> 01:11:08.435
and I was like oh
1333
01:11:09.853 --> 01:11:10.560
I'll talk about it myself
1334
01:11:11.008 --> 01:11:11.659
I know a lot about that
1335
01:11:12.706 --> 01:11:15.100
so I'm just going to tell you
1336
01:11:15.850 --> 01:11:16.540
about what I've been doing
1337
01:11:16.944 --> 01:11:18.639
for the past 8 years
1338
01:11:19.111 --> 01:11:19.358
I think
1339
01:11:20.486 --> 01:11:22.800
I'll actually start before then
1340
01:11:23.266 --> 01:11:24.200
I graduated from college
1341
01:11:24.466 --> 01:11:24.959
I did do that
1342
01:11:25.730 --> 01:11:26.419
computer science
1343
01:11:26.746 --> 01:11:27.420
I went to New Orleans
1344
01:11:27.723 --> 01:11:29.660
And my goal in life was to not get a job.
1345
01:11:32.763 --> 01:11:34.800
So I was like, I'll do some consulting here and there.
1346
01:11:34.980 --> 01:11:38.820
I got somebody to pay me a reasonable rate, hourly rate.
1347
01:11:39.321 --> 01:11:46.160
And I realized I did the math and I was like, OK, if I work one hour a day, I think I'm good.
1348
01:11:46.823 --> 01:11:47.379
I think I'm good.
1349
01:11:48.362 --> 01:11:50.800
But actually, during that time, I started working with a bunch of small businesses.
1350
01:11:51.522 --> 01:11:54.660
I helped them like solve business problems.
1351
01:11:54.841 --> 01:11:57.480
Like, honestly, people in Louisiana never heard of automation before.
1352
01:11:58.101 --> 01:12:01.320
So it helped them, like, realize that they probably don't need those three people.
1353
01:12:01.682 --> 01:12:02.860
We can totally get rid of that job.
1354
01:12:03.120 --> 01:12:04.320
You shouldn't be doing manual reporting.
1355
01:12:04.886 --> 01:12:05.120
Sorry.
1356
01:12:05.482 --> 01:12:06.217
This is even before AI.
1357
01:12:08.461 --> 01:12:11.760
But sometime in 2016, a friend of mine sent me an article.
1358
01:12:12.421 --> 01:12:14.520
And it was a New York Times article.
1359
01:12:14.962 --> 01:12:15.860
And it was for the Dow.
1360
01:12:17.042 --> 01:12:19.740
Some of y'all probably familiar with the Dow.
1361
01:12:20.382 --> 01:12:26.319
and I had used Bitcoin in 2013.
1362
01:12:28.281 --> 01:12:30.118
Unclear probably what I was using for in 2013.
1363
01:12:30.600 --> 01:12:32.618
Who knows what people use Bitcoin for in 2013.
1364
01:12:34.362 --> 01:12:36.980
But it hadn't really clicked, the aha moment.
1365
01:12:37.100 --> 01:12:38.279
I read this article and I was like,
1366
01:12:39.061 --> 01:12:41.360
oh shit, this is crazy.
1367
01:12:41.820 --> 01:12:42.578
And I had that moment.
1368
01:12:42.900 --> 01:12:44.340
I mean, probably most of you had that moment
1369
01:12:44.441 --> 01:12:45.800
where you're like, oh, Ethereum, oh, crypto,
1370
01:12:45.980 --> 01:12:48.020
oh, programmable blockchains, decentralized consensus.
1371
01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:56.460
is this is crazy this is something new um and i got obsessed and i did i sent my first mainnet
1372
01:12:56.540 --> 01:13:01.880
transaction i remember sitting on the couch with a friend i turned to him and said this is not going
1373
01:13:01.880 --> 01:13:10.180
to end well it was to the dow it did not end well uh but a crash course in blockchains and consensus
1374
01:13:10.521 --> 01:13:17.620
and like social like what is consensus consensus is just the social rules and and whatever and i
1375
01:13:17.881 --> 01:13:21.900
I think probably at the time, I don't even know if I knew what a hard fork was,
1376
01:13:21.940 --> 01:13:26.540
but I think I was probably pro-DAO hard fork because I lost a bunch of money.
1377
01:13:28.404 --> 01:13:29.600
But it was systemic, right?
1378
01:13:29.963 --> 01:13:31.260
And it was very exciting.
1379
01:13:31.663 --> 01:13:32.179
I learned a ton.
1380
01:13:32.700 --> 01:13:35.340
And by the end of 2016, it's the only thing I could think about.
1381
01:13:38.062 --> 01:13:40.360
Like I didn't want to do anything else.
1382
01:13:41.343 --> 01:13:46.920
The mechanisms and the incentives and the money and the things you can build.
1383
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:51.880
And so January 1st, 2017, I got rid of all my clients.
1384
01:13:52.581 --> 01:13:54.660
Sorry, guys, small business owners in Louisiana.
1385
01:13:55.120 --> 01:13:57.959
And I said, I'll give myself a year to make this my work.
1386
01:13:58.884 --> 01:14:00.119
Had no idea what that really meant.
1387
01:14:00.480 --> 01:14:03.620
So I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the New Orleans Ethereum meetup.
1388
01:14:04.322 --> 01:14:07.380
And I went online and looked for it and it didn't exist.
1389
01:14:08.141 --> 01:14:10.340
So I'm like, okay, I'll make this my work.
1390
01:14:10.741 --> 01:14:12.040
I'll make the New Orleans Ethereum meetup.
1391
01:14:12.527 --> 01:14:12.700
Cool.
1392
01:14:12.901 --> 01:14:13.779
I'm doing something now.
1393
01:14:14.906 --> 01:14:17.760
I used a lot of open source software
1394
01:14:17.861 --> 01:14:19.360
I was an open source software believer
1395
01:14:19.421 --> 01:14:20.460
I'd never contributed before
1396
01:14:20.480 --> 01:14:21.920
I was like okay I'm going to contribute
1397
01:14:22.567 --> 01:14:23.173
so I went online
1398
01:14:24.345 --> 01:14:26.160
some nice Python repos
1399
01:14:26.745 --> 01:14:28.560
and I was like okay I can write some Python
1400
01:14:28.944 --> 01:14:30.620
and like made things a little bit better
1401
01:14:30.823 --> 01:14:31.959
tried to do a little stuff
1402
01:14:32.686 --> 01:14:34.420
I would read docs, fix typos
1403
01:14:34.806 --> 01:14:35.560
do random stuff
1404
01:14:36.028 --> 01:14:36.659
just tried to like
1405
01:14:37.649 --> 01:14:38.820
I don't know make the world a little bit better
1406
01:14:39.062 --> 01:14:41.160
every time I opened and tried to learn something
1407
01:14:41.362 --> 01:14:43.459
like you know contribute a little bit here and there
1408
01:14:44.843 --> 01:14:48.895
and I found that the doors were wide open, like comically wide open.
1409
01:14:49.357 --> 01:14:50.360
I heard proof of stake was
1410
01:14:50.420 --> 01:14:50.681
coming.
1411
01:14:50.701 --> 01:14:52.208
I was like, I don't know what the fuck that is.
1412
01:14:52.228 --> 01:14:54.539
Uh, read a little bit about it.
1413
01:14:54.659 --> 01:14:54.800
And I
1414
01:14:54.820 --> 01:14:56.606
was like, that doesn't make any sense.
1415
01:14:57.609 --> 01:15:00.700
But, uh, I was like, if they're doing it, I should like
1416
01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:01.302
learn about it.
1417
01:15:01.343 --> 01:15:05.700
Maybe I could like make a staking company or I don't know, get involved in some way.
1418
01:15:06.320 --> 01:15:11.236
Um, and there was an open Casper car call, Casper research call.
1419
01:15:11.397 --> 01:15:12.280
And they would just like drop a
1420
01:15:12.340 --> 01:15:16.660
link in a public chat and I was like well I'm gonna go to that uh and so it's like Vitalik
1421
01:15:17.241 --> 01:15:24.240
and Vlad Zamfir and some like wizard that started our chain and like it showed up with a reef case
1422
01:15:24.280 --> 01:15:31.580
full of cash at one point and bought it it was a it was a strange time but uh I went to this call
1423
01:15:31.620 --> 01:15:36.860
and I was like oh I had nothing to say or contribute but they'd be like oh we were reading
1424
01:15:36.940 --> 01:15:40.720
this blog post and and I'd be the guy that would like go find the blog post real quick and drop in
1425
01:15:40.820 --> 01:15:41.142
the chat.
1426
01:15:41.182 --> 01:15:42.608
I was like, Hey, I did something.
1427
01:15:43.392 --> 01:15:45.180
And now everyone knows the, can, can see the link.
1428
01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:49.214
Um, and I just, I sent that you're just like trying to do stuff.
1429
01:15:49.294 --> 01:15:50.680
And I, again, I heard Casper
1430
01:15:50.761 --> 01:15:51.123
was coming.
1431
01:15:51.143 --> 01:15:52.290
I heard proof of stake was coming.
1432
01:15:52.310 --> 01:15:53.800
It was coming right at, right at the beginning
1433
01:15:53.820 --> 01:15:54.362
of the next year.
1434
01:15:54.382 --> 01:15:56.612
So I was like, Oh, I'll, I'll read about it.
1435
01:15:57.375 --> 01:15:58.540
I'll like, go look at the code.
1436
01:15:58.700 --> 01:15:59.787
And there was a bunch of solidity code.
1437
01:15:59.887 --> 01:16:02.060
That's when Casper proof of stake was implemented in
1438
01:16:02.120 --> 01:16:02.461
solidity.
1439
01:16:03.223 --> 01:16:06.131
And I was like, there are no tests.
1440
01:16:07.133 --> 01:16:08.878
Is this, this isn't good, right?
1441
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:09.680
So I wrote some
1442
01:16:09.700 --> 01:16:09.941
tests.
1443
01:16:10.442 --> 01:16:11.365
I made the world a little bit better.
1444
01:16:13.731 --> 01:16:17.080
And I refactored some code, cleaned up some stuff,
1445
01:16:17.160 --> 01:16:18.444
made stuff a little bit more efficient.
1446
01:16:19.086 --> 01:16:24.060
And by the end of 2017, someone reached out for me from
1447
01:16:24.140 --> 01:16:25.367
the EF and was like, hey, do you want a job?
1448
01:16:25.387 --> 01:16:27.660
And I was like, I'm going to Japan for three months,
1449
01:16:27.961 --> 01:16:28.883
so I don't know.
1450
01:16:30.508 --> 01:16:32.072
And they said, how about 10 hours?
1451
01:16:32.112 --> 01:16:33.054
I said, perfect.
1452
01:16:34.057 --> 01:16:35.100
So I'm in this era where
1453
01:16:35.140 --> 01:16:41.340
I have an incredible amount of optimism for the technology, an incredible amount of optimism for
1454
01:16:41.400 --> 01:16:46.160
this, this Ethereum thing, this decentralized consensus, this, this is going to change the
1455
01:16:46.200 --> 01:16:46.521
world.
1456
01:16:46.541 --> 01:16:50.751
A little secret about myself.
1457
01:16:50.811 --> 01:16:51.793
I'm a bit of a Luddite.
1458
01:16:52.796 --> 01:16:54.660
I work on, I don't, I already said
1459
01:16:54.660 --> 01:16:55.122
what I work on.
1460
01:16:55.142 --> 01:16:56.125
You're going to hear what I work on.
1461
01:16:56.466 --> 01:16:57.389
I work on technology.
1462
01:16:58.593 --> 01:17:00.419
But I, I'm a bit of a
1463
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:01.202
skeptic.
1464
01:17:01.704 --> 01:17:03.992
I'm a bit of a pessimist.
1465
01:17:04.273 --> 01:17:06.360
Obviously, technology does incredible things for humanity,
1466
01:17:06.962 --> 01:17:09.271
but also the trajectory of technology is kind of terrifying.
1467
01:17:09.833 --> 01:17:11.640
Like control and these megacorps,
1468
01:17:12.160 --> 01:17:14.376
these megacorps, maybe you're going to become bigger than the government.
1469
01:17:14.396 --> 01:17:14.920
Like what's going
1470
01:17:15.061 --> 01:17:15.442
on here?
1471
01:17:15.924 --> 01:17:18.113
You know, I have a slot machine in my pocket.
1472
01:17:18.515 --> 01:17:19.800
Like the world's smartest people are
1473
01:17:19.820 --> 01:17:22.212
trying to figure out how do we get me to open this thing over and over and over.
1474
01:17:22.232 --> 01:17:23.539
It's kind of,
1475
01:17:24.261 --> 01:17:26.129
I don't know, it doesn't sit well with me.
1476
01:17:26.611 --> 01:17:28.540
And so when I learned about Ethereum and during this time,
1477
01:17:28.781 --> 01:17:33.160
I realized we can't turn the technological progress and machine off,
1478
01:17:33.701 --> 01:17:35.120
and it's just going, it's going, it's going.
1479
01:17:35.200 --> 01:17:38.620
But maybe with this technology, we can change the trajectory.
1480
01:17:39.960 --> 01:17:45.140
So I kind of unbridled optimism for the technology during this era.
1481
01:17:46.743 --> 01:17:48.380
And I got to work at the EF.
1482
01:17:49.481 --> 01:17:52.920
And while I was in Japan, Carl, K. Carl from Optimism,
1483
01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:54.900
he was at the EF at the time, we were chatting,
1484
01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:56.000
and he's like, hey, we're in Tokyo.
1485
01:17:56.020 --> 01:17:56.619
I was like, what?
1486
01:17:57.022 --> 01:18:00.800
I went to a coffee shop and I'm hanging out with Carl and Vitalik in a coffee shop.
1487
01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:01.799
And I'm like, what the fuck's going on?
1488
01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:03.239
I'm just like a random person on the internet.
1489
01:18:03.742 --> 01:18:04.500
And I'm hanging out with Carl.
1490
01:18:05.680 --> 01:18:10.240
Anyway, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to like do what I can.
1491
01:18:10.280 --> 01:18:11.360
I'm going to try to keep this thing moving.
1492
01:18:11.460 --> 01:18:16.440
So I'm like, okay, guys, what do we have to do to get proof of stake live?
1493
01:18:16.981 --> 01:18:18.500
Thinking like they know the answers.
1494
01:18:18.901 --> 01:18:19.840
Of course they know the answers.
1495
01:18:21.002 --> 01:18:22.020
And like, I don't know.
1496
01:18:22.180 --> 01:18:25.180
I mean, so, okay, well, maybe we should write an EIP, right?
1497
01:18:25.302 --> 01:18:26.580
Like that's what people do.
1498
01:18:26.720 --> 01:18:29.580
I've never read any IP at that point, but I know they exist.
1499
01:18:30.342 --> 01:18:31.640
And they're like, yeah, yeah, let's write an EIP.
1500
01:18:32.321 --> 01:18:34.320
And Carl's like, I said, okay, so who's going to do it?
1501
01:18:34.600 --> 01:18:35.680
Carl's like, not me.
1502
01:18:36.400 --> 01:18:36.529
Okay.
1503
01:18:37.260 --> 01:18:39.140
And Vitalik said, do I have to do it this time?
1504
01:18:39.642 --> 01:18:42.520
And I'm just sitting there with these two guys and like literally my heroes.
1505
01:18:42.520 --> 01:18:44.160
And I'm like, I'll do it.
1506
01:18:44.723 --> 01:18:45.259
I'll write the EIP.
1507
01:18:46.462 --> 01:18:47.859
Literally never read any EIP.
1508
01:18:49.265 --> 01:18:49.899
I'll write the EIP.
1509
01:18:50.200 --> 01:18:51.379
We'll write the proof of stake EIP.
1510
01:18:52.101 --> 01:18:55.960
And I went from 10 hours a week to this is all I'm doing every day, every day.
1511
01:18:56.782 --> 01:18:58.180
I met Aya at the time.
1512
01:18:58.601 --> 01:19:00.340
She had just started the Ethereum Foundation as well.
1513
01:19:00.581 --> 01:19:01.660
She happened to be in Tokyo.
1514
01:19:01.760 --> 01:19:02.519
A bunch of them were in Tokyo.
1515
01:19:03.482 --> 01:19:05.900
And she said to me, when's proof of stake going to launch?
1516
01:19:06.020 --> 01:19:07.360
And I was like, I don't know, like six months.
1517
01:19:08.362 --> 01:19:09.176
This is the beginning of 2018.
1518
01:19:10.462 --> 01:19:11.580
I was a fool.
1519
01:19:13.762 --> 01:19:16.498
So then somewhere at some point in 2018,
1520
01:19:17.140 --> 01:19:19.820
I functionally was kind of like running the research team
1521
01:19:19.880 --> 01:19:21.760
at the Ethereum Foundation, like six months in.
1522
01:19:22.500 --> 01:19:26.260
And Hudson Jameson at the time, he reached out and we were talking.
1523
01:19:26.260 --> 01:19:29.360
And he's like, you know, you're the only one that responds to their emails.
1524
01:19:29.942 --> 01:19:31.100
I was like, okay, okay.
1525
01:19:32.083 --> 01:19:34.120
Turns out communicating was important.
1526
01:19:34.720 --> 01:19:36.913
Wrangling the researchers was important.
1527
01:19:39.100 --> 01:19:42.460
And I just, the doors were comically wide open, so I just kept walking through them.
1528
01:19:43.343 --> 01:19:43.879
We kept building.
1529
01:19:44.440 --> 01:19:47.780
We kept working and working and working and working and working.
1530
01:19:48.582 --> 01:19:52.880
And this thing that I thought was going to take six months took three years.
1531
01:19:53.823 --> 01:19:55.440
But that was only a phase zero launch.
1532
01:19:56.183 --> 01:20:00.580
that was the launch of the beacon chain but like no it didn't actually touch main net and we told
1533
01:20:00.660 --> 01:20:08.059
everyone it's main net it's kind of main net but anyway two years later two years later we finally
1534
01:20:09.202 --> 01:20:14.680
do the big thing the merge the thing happened and i mean it was an incredible release right it's the
1535
01:20:14.720 --> 01:20:19.080
hardest i've ever worked on anything probably the longest other than like my schooling career that
1536
01:20:19.120 --> 01:20:22.680
i've ever worked on anything it's the biggest thing i've ever done maybe the biggest thing i'll
1537
01:20:22.720 --> 01:20:23.141
ever do.
1538
01:20:23.161 --> 01:20:25.065
And it was very exciting.
1539
01:20:30.095 --> 01:20:31.076
Then a couple of years pass.
1540
01:20:31.898 --> 01:20:32.860
I'm still kind of doing the same
1541
01:20:32.900 --> 01:20:33.141
thing.
1542
01:20:33.744 --> 01:20:36.476
Still running the consensus calls, doing the, doing the thing.
1543
01:20:36.516 --> 01:20:37.480
And at a certain point I
1544
01:20:37.560 --> 01:20:40.392
wake up and I'm like, I'm just kind of doing the thing.
1545
01:20:40.412 --> 01:20:42.440
I kind of did the big thing and now I'm
1546
01:20:42.520 --> 01:20:44.245
just, just doing the thing.
1547
01:20:44.265 --> 01:20:46.110
And I was also like tired.
1548
01:20:46.130 --> 01:20:50.020
I was kind of exhausted mentally, but also
1549
01:20:50.080 --> 01:20:53.040
like kind of existentially and physically, like it'd be 10 a.m.
1550
01:20:53.040 --> 01:20:54.199
And I'd be like, I kind of want to take a nap.
1551
01:20:55.482 --> 01:20:57.820
I think I might be burnt out.
1552
01:20:59.361 --> 01:21:03.500
And at the beginning of the years, the years are confusing sometimes.
1553
01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:07.940
But at the beginning of 2024, I hit up Aya and I was like, I got to go.
1554
01:21:09.246 --> 01:21:09.700
I'm sorry.
1555
01:21:10.665 --> 01:21:11.300
It's time to go.
1556
01:21:11.503 --> 01:21:11.898
I got to go.
1557
01:21:13.562 --> 01:21:16.199
And she said, really?
1558
01:21:17.265 --> 01:21:18.080
I think you should stay.
1559
01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:19.497
Let's take some time.
1560
01:21:19.700 --> 01:21:20.062
take some time.
1561
01:21:20.082 --> 01:21:21.608
Why don't you take, take a, take a sabbatical.
1562
01:21:21.849 --> 01:21:24.479
So said, okay, okay, okay.
1563
01:21:24.559 --> 01:21:24.840
I'll take
1564
01:21:24.860 --> 01:21:25.342
three months.
1565
01:21:25.783 --> 01:21:26.667
I'll get my head in order.
1566
01:21:27.289 --> 01:21:28.614
We'll figure out what I'm doing from there.
1567
01:21:30.079 --> 01:21:30.320
It'll be
1568
01:21:30.380 --> 01:21:30.661
fine.
1569
01:21:30.701 --> 01:21:33.830
Maybe I won't go back, but maybe I'll go back, but I'll take three months.
1570
01:21:34.954 --> 01:21:37.100
Friday, day one,
1571
01:21:37.361 --> 01:21:39.185
I end, I end, I'm done with work.
1572
01:21:40.067 --> 01:21:42.955
Saturday, I guess that was Friday's day zero.
1573
01:21:43.396 --> 01:21:45.080
Saturday, day one.
1574
01:21:47.346 --> 01:21:52.100
okay i'm gonna start thinking i don't have the weight of the world on my shoulders anymore
1575
01:21:53.304 --> 01:21:58.320
sunday day two it's easter sunday my dad and my mom they're divorced they come to my house
1576
01:21:58.400 --> 01:22:03.460
there's kids running around we're having fun we're cooking we're literally putting the dinner
1577
01:22:03.721 --> 01:22:12.160
on the table and i get a knock at the door and i go answer the door and there's a young woman
1578
01:22:12.421 --> 01:22:15.700
dressed in like business casual whatever and she hands me a stack of papers
1579
01:22:17.044 --> 01:22:22.780
so you've been served I was served by the United States government I was served by the SEC
1580
01:22:23.201 --> 01:22:30.420
personally and I actually I can kind of feel it right now like the amount of adrenaline that I
1581
01:22:30.500 --> 01:22:37.640
felt like the I felt fucking crazy like I had this stack of papers my family's in the fucking house
1582
01:22:39.166 --> 01:22:42.920
and I'm like what have I done and I go into the back room and I'm just looking at this stuff
1583
01:22:43.523 --> 01:22:46.640
and everyone's like eating like what's Danny doing what's going on who's at the door it's Easter
1584
01:22:47.263 --> 01:22:51.240
and I'm like flipping through these documents and I'm like I'm shaking
1585
01:22:53.125 --> 01:22:59.320
and like I was just I'm just like a random guy on the internet I was just working on stuff that
1586
01:22:59.340 --> 01:23:03.020
I thought was cool I was just working on stuff that I thought was going to change you know like
1587
01:23:03.040 --> 01:23:03.703
it's positive.
1588
01:23:03.723 --> 01:23:05.771
Like, of course we want new technology.
1589
01:23:05.811 --> 01:23:08.120
We want, we want like open technology,
1590
01:23:08.360 --> 01:23:09.326
open, it's open source.
1591
01:23:09.346 --> 01:23:10.634
Like, Oh, what do I, I don't know.
1592
01:23:10.655 --> 01:23:11.540
I'm not, I didn't do anything.
1593
01:23:12.660 --> 01:23:18.374
And, and then I'm like, I don't want to go to jail.
1594
01:23:19.477 --> 01:23:20.319
Am I going to go to jail?
1595
01:23:20.359 --> 01:23:20.800
I know people
1596
01:23:20.840 --> 01:23:24.597
that have gone to jail and I thought they, they pushed the boundaries more.
1597
01:23:24.617 --> 01:23:25.400
Like I'm just working
1598
01:23:25.580 --> 01:23:27.185
on proof of stake.
1599
01:23:27.245 --> 01:23:27.706
I don't know.
1600
01:23:28.970 --> 01:23:31.216
And it was fucking terrifying.
1601
01:23:31.797 --> 01:23:32.860
And I spent the next three
1602
01:23:32.940 --> 01:23:40.399
months of my sabbatical talking to $2,000 an hour lawyers out of New York prepping for an
1603
01:23:40.820 --> 01:23:41.602
interrogation.
1604
01:23:41.863 --> 01:23:47.300
Essentially, they wanted to talk to me like in the document, it said, you need to be
1605
01:23:47.541 --> 01:23:48.605
in New York on Friday.
1606
01:23:48.625 --> 01:23:50.493
And I'm like, what the fuck?
1607
01:23:50.594 --> 01:23:52.080
This is the US government saying I need to
1608
01:23:52.688 --> 01:23:53.480
in New York on Friday.
1609
01:23:56.222 --> 01:23:58.880
And so the three months that I was supposed to not spend
1610
01:23:59.182 --> 01:24:01.980
thinking about crypto, I'm now like deeper.
1611
01:24:03.123 --> 01:24:04.900
And it's the only thing I can think about.
1612
01:24:05.300 --> 01:24:08.480
And it turns out the SEC is a civil organization.
1613
01:24:08.681 --> 01:24:12.860
The worst I could do is lose all my money
1614
01:24:13.465 --> 01:24:15.240
and go bankrupt if they fine me enough.
1615
01:24:16.364 --> 01:24:18.400
But it's not criminal.
1616
01:24:18.860 --> 01:24:20.380
But they said, but be careful.
1617
01:24:20.861 --> 01:24:22.880
The DOJ is sometimes lurking right behind the SEC.
1618
01:24:23.080 --> 01:24:25.300
So I'm like, what the fuck's going on here?
1619
01:24:25.980 --> 01:24:36.340
So then the ETHF was approved while the SEC is trying to interrogate me.
1620
01:24:36.400 --> 01:24:37.640
I'm like, what the fuck's going on here?
1621
01:24:39.202 --> 01:24:41.900
And then they went from, we want to talk to you yesterday,
1622
01:24:42.140 --> 01:24:44.380
to maybe we'll talk at the end of the summer.
1623
01:24:45.981 --> 01:24:49.300
Then a week later, I get a letter in the mail and it says, case closed.
1624
01:24:49.662 --> 01:24:50.278
Don't worry about it.
1625
01:24:51.125 --> 01:24:53.120
and I'm talking to these lawyers in New York,
1626
01:24:53.641 --> 01:24:56.420
and they say, and they used to work at the SEC.
1627
01:24:56.621 --> 01:24:57.379
It's kind of fucked up.
1628
01:24:57.961 --> 01:24:59.800
You work at the SEC, then you become a lawyer
1629
01:24:59.840 --> 01:25:01.900
who specializes in the SEC, and they know the people.
1630
01:25:02.406 --> 01:25:03.020
It's really strange.
1631
01:25:03.600 --> 01:25:04.679
It's called the Revolving Boar.
1632
01:25:04.943 --> 01:25:06.140
I think that's illegal in most countries.
1633
01:25:09.063 --> 01:25:11.760
And they say, never in our history
1634
01:25:12.544 --> 01:25:15.860
have we seen the SEC proactively close a case.
1635
01:25:18.014 --> 01:25:18.980
the best you get
1636
01:25:19.242 --> 01:25:20.999
is that they just kind of stop talking to you
1637
01:25:22.188 --> 01:25:23.820
and the longer they stop talking to you
1638
01:25:23.881 --> 01:25:24.420
the more you go
1639
01:25:24.502 --> 01:25:25.339
I guess I'm okay
1640
01:25:27.453 --> 01:25:28.600
but they actually sent a letter
1641
01:25:28.763 --> 01:25:29.638
and they closed it
1642
01:25:30.891 --> 01:25:31.860
because it was politics
1643
01:25:33.931 --> 01:25:35.460
because it was some political mandate
1644
01:25:35.582 --> 01:25:36.638
to destroy crypto
1645
01:25:40.397 --> 01:25:41.060
I guess because
1646
01:25:41.383 --> 01:25:43.040
crypto might actually change the world
1647
01:25:43.727 --> 01:25:44.960
I guess because it is actually
1648
01:25:45.083 --> 01:25:45.799
kind of powerful
1649
01:25:46.062 --> 01:25:48.680
I guess because it is actually a game changing to known.
1650
01:25:54.126 --> 01:25:57.700
So now I'm going back to the app after my three months sabbatical.
1651
01:25:59.825 --> 01:26:00.840
And I'm still kind of exhausted.
1652
01:26:01.803 --> 01:26:02.540
Still not feeling great.
1653
01:26:03.422 --> 01:26:04.240
My head's not in the game.
1654
01:26:04.681 --> 01:26:06.080
And I say, I gotta go.
1655
01:26:06.846 --> 01:26:07.100
I'm out.
1656
01:26:08.148 --> 01:26:08.538
And so I did.
1657
01:26:08.680 --> 01:26:09.199
I wrapped up.
1658
01:26:09.440 --> 01:26:09.818
And I left.
1659
01:26:11.924 --> 01:26:13.300
And then I still felt terrible.
1660
01:26:13.340 --> 01:26:16.460
and I was like damn we're in on some real horror
1661
01:26:16.480 --> 01:26:17.739
kind of messes you up
1662
01:26:18.606 --> 01:26:20.620
and then I was like do I sleep well
1663
01:26:21.912 --> 01:26:22.719
and I put on this watch
1664
01:26:23.446 --> 01:26:24.839
and he's like no you don't sleep well at all
1665
01:26:25.525 --> 01:26:27.060
turns out it was some like debilitating
1666
01:26:27.749 --> 01:26:28.418
sleep problem
1667
01:26:30.154 --> 01:26:30.860
passed that up
1668
01:26:31.451 --> 01:26:31.879
felt great
1669
01:26:33.089 --> 01:26:34.640
so literally the next day I was like
1670
01:26:34.660 --> 01:26:35.659
I felt like I was on drugs
1671
01:26:36.204 --> 01:26:38.100
I got this sleep problem and made it for decades
1672
01:26:39.006 --> 01:26:41.040
um and so that was wild
1673
01:26:41.525 --> 01:26:42.940
now I'm like recontextualizing
1674
01:26:42.940 --> 01:26:43.800
in the past many years
1675
01:26:43.864 --> 01:26:44.140
and I'm like,
1676
01:26:44.180 --> 01:26:44.999
that was really hard.
1677
01:26:45.141 --> 01:26:45.860
I was kind of tired
1678
01:26:45.963 --> 01:26:46.460
the whole time.
1679
01:26:48.487 --> 01:26:49.040
I wonder if it would have
1680
01:26:49.081 --> 01:26:49.440
been different
1681
01:26:49.542 --> 01:26:50.380
if I wasn't so tired.
1682
01:26:50.480 --> 01:26:50.880
Maybe I would have
1683
01:26:50.880 --> 01:26:51.599
done a better job.
1684
01:26:52.300 --> 01:26:52.740
Maybe I would have
1685
01:26:52.761 --> 01:26:53.480
cared for longer.
1686
01:26:54.843 --> 01:26:55.159
Who knows?
1687
01:26:56.065 --> 01:26:56.459
But I'm out.
1688
01:26:58.581 --> 01:27:00.120
When Trump wins,
1689
01:27:00.620 --> 01:27:02.159
I was kind of
1690
01:27:02.200 --> 01:27:02.540
about what was
1691
01:27:02.540 --> 01:27:02.900
going to happen
1692
01:27:02.900 --> 01:27:03.460
but I was kind of
1693
01:27:03.460 --> 01:27:03.840
unexpected.
1694
01:27:05.041 --> 01:27:05.316
Then,
1695
01:27:07.969 --> 01:27:08.360
Trump wants
1696
01:27:08.483 --> 01:27:09.080
a meme point
1697
01:27:09.306 --> 01:27:09.820
two days before
1698
01:27:09.922 --> 01:27:10.820
he's inaugurated
1699
01:27:11.430 --> 01:27:12.040
and I'm like
1700
01:27:12.120 --> 01:27:17.920
fucking whiplash like what the fuck like literally five months ago i got served by the sec by the
1701
01:27:17.920 --> 01:27:26.680
federal government and now the what world do i live in and i mean i'm just and i was like oh i'm done
1702
01:27:27.362 --> 01:27:32.840
i'm done with crypto we're definitely done not doing that anymore this is fucked i don't want
1703
01:27:32.860 --> 01:27:36.960
to be involved this and i wasn't at the eop and i wasn't working on anything and i was like okay
1704
01:27:38.224 --> 01:27:43.080
um maybe i'll i've been threatening to go into the woods for like since i started working crypto
1705
01:27:43.261 --> 01:27:49.500
since time to run the woods and i was talking to a friend and he's like yo i hear this like
1706
01:27:50.384 --> 01:27:53.680
maybe there's some problems with the uh like what can we do to make it better and i'm like you know
1707
01:27:53.780 --> 01:27:58.660
we're giving yeah not a deep gap i don't see up anymore and we're talking and we're talking he's
1708
01:27:58.680 --> 01:28:04.480
like yo i actually it's clear that maybe they should have someone else but yeah and like you
1709
01:28:04.581 --> 01:28:07.280
I'm like, no, no, I'm not doing that.
1710
01:28:08.641 --> 01:28:11.580
I had pretty plans to see it, and like a week later, I'm like, shit.
1711
01:28:12.360 --> 01:28:13.120
Maybe I should be there.
1712
01:28:13.300 --> 01:28:17.220
So I get up, Vitalik, and I was like, maybe I should run that, yeah?
1713
01:28:18.001 --> 01:28:20.100
And we're kind of talking for a while, back and forth.
1714
01:28:21.420 --> 01:28:25.500
Blue Slopes, Sink Shooks, Elite, got on the internet.
1715
01:28:26.361 --> 01:28:27.860
It's kind of a fucking disaster.
1716
01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:29.700
I don't know if you paid attention during that time.
1717
01:28:30.921 --> 01:28:33.578
People were like, it was bad.
1718
01:28:34.488 --> 01:28:35.440
I mean it's very negative
1719
01:28:35.521 --> 01:28:37.219
I don't like to be involved in negative stuff
1720
01:28:37.381 --> 01:28:39.560
quite frankly Aya and I worked
1721
01:28:39.762 --> 01:28:41.020
very closely together for many years
1722
01:28:41.121 --> 01:28:43.340
have high trust and appreciate great things
1723
01:28:43.360 --> 01:28:44.039
during that time
1724
01:28:45.472 --> 01:28:46.480
and it kind of accelerated
1725
01:28:46.540 --> 01:28:48.619
and put the nail in my coffin on like
1726
01:28:49.570 --> 01:28:50.460
yeah I'm not going back
1727
01:28:52.850 --> 01:28:54.597
and I linked up with
1728
01:28:55.687 --> 01:28:56.258
Dota
1729
01:28:57.246 --> 01:28:59.200
at the time again I still kind of feel like I'm on drugs
1730
01:28:59.322 --> 01:29:00.360
like I started sleeping
1731
01:29:00.683 --> 01:29:02.740
and I guess I could work on something harder then
1732
01:29:03.742 --> 01:29:11.920
uh got a new type of vivic and vivic is comes from trap pie he has like boundless energy so
1733
01:29:12.101 --> 01:29:17.880
i'm like are you on but that's uh but he he just he's he's super optimistic he's willing to talk
1734
01:29:17.920 --> 01:29:21.680
to everyone in the world and i was like oh that's like really good like complimentary energy
1735
01:29:22.943 --> 01:29:29.880
the uh the regulatory stuff you know it's fucking wild but like there's a lot of opportunity right
1736
01:29:29.880 --> 01:29:32.180
You know, we could maybe like actually onboard the world.
1737
01:29:32.700 --> 01:29:32.965
Let's do it.
1738
01:29:33.740 --> 01:29:34.800
So I found something hard to work on.
1739
01:29:35.781 --> 01:29:36.880
I found something exciting to work on.
1740
01:29:38.361 --> 01:29:43.400
And I, I find myself at this time, I think I'm still optimistic.
1741
01:29:45.722 --> 01:29:48.800
I think I'm, I'm certainly less naive.
1742
01:29:49.823 --> 01:29:51.780
I don't have the unbridled optimism anywhere.
1743
01:29:52.500 --> 01:29:56.320
You know, the, the tool is a tool.
1744
01:29:56.482 --> 01:29:58.440
The tool is a game changing technology.
1745
01:29:58.581 --> 01:30:03.800
The tool is fundamentally new and exciting, and we can do things with it.
1746
01:30:04.440 --> 01:30:07.060
But it's not, I don't think it's inherently good.
1747
01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:08.620
I don't think it's inherently bad.
1748
01:30:09.300 --> 01:30:14.980
I think it's ultimately what we, how we choose to wield it.
1749
01:30:16.260 --> 01:30:20.640
And at this point, I'm going to wield it.
1750
01:30:21.461 --> 01:30:22.480
You know, I understand it.
1751
01:30:22.901 --> 01:30:26.640
I understand things that I want to happen, and I'm going to make it happen.
1752
01:30:27.063 --> 01:30:27.860
And I'm going to work on it.
1753
01:30:28.265 --> 01:30:29.600
I found something exciting to work on.
1754
01:30:30.663 --> 01:30:33.200
I found something, I think, impactful to work on.
1755
01:30:34.100 --> 01:30:40.180
And I think, you know, the life is what you make it.
1756
01:30:41.544 --> 01:30:42.619
And the world is what you make it.
1757
01:30:43.602 --> 01:30:44.319
So I'm going to go make it.
1758
01:30:47.289 --> 01:30:47.579
Thanks, Danny.
1759
01:30:49.065 --> 01:30:49.900
Danny, you have to have our question.
1760
01:30:51.985 --> 01:30:52.840
Here's another question for Danny.
1761
01:30:55.527 --> 01:30:56.160
No questions for Danny.
1762
01:30:56.925 --> 01:30:57.820
Oh, we got one question for Danny.
1763
01:30:58.692 --> 01:30:59.280
usual suspect
1764
01:30:59.300 --> 01:30:59.340
so
1765
01:31:02.022 --> 01:31:02.558
hey
1766
01:31:02.963 --> 01:31:04.900
so what makes you optimistic today
1767
01:31:07.236 --> 01:31:07.659
I am
1768
01:31:08.532 --> 01:31:09.080
optimistic
1769
01:31:09.080 --> 01:31:09.241
that
1770
01:31:12.550 --> 01:31:13.779
if I work really hard
1771
01:31:14.805 --> 01:31:17.300
I might be able to make certain financial systems more efficient
1772
01:31:18.346 --> 01:31:20.600
I'm really optimistic that if I work really hard
1773
01:31:21.807 --> 01:31:23.800
I might be able to expand access
1774
01:31:24.646 --> 01:31:26.480
to certain financial systems and assets
1775
01:31:26.683 --> 01:31:27.720
that are currently gated
1776
01:31:29.993 --> 01:31:31.200
and if I work really hard
1777
01:31:33.172 --> 01:31:34.320
hopefully maybe
1778
01:31:34.602 --> 01:31:37.340
we can reduce
1779
01:31:38.768 --> 01:31:40.499
the having crazy
1780
01:31:43.971 --> 01:31:46.840
centralizing nature of technology
1781
01:31:47.345 --> 01:31:48.860
but I don't know
1782
01:31:49.105 --> 01:31:49.940
I mean I'm definitely
1783
01:31:51.030 --> 01:31:52.119
much more in the
1784
01:31:52.240 --> 01:31:54.740
I'm going to work really hard on something
1785
01:31:55.288 --> 01:31:56.059
rather than like
1786
01:31:57.006 --> 01:31:58.697
this thing's just gonna make everything better
1787
01:32:00.372 --> 01:32:01.200
remember to cluster Danny
1788
01:32:26.140 --> 01:32:56.120
Thank you.