Backstage Bucks County- Episode 11 with Dr. Beth Kaplan

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Welcome back to another episode of Backstage Bucks County.
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Today with me, I have an awesome guest, local author of Braving the Workplace, A Million Degrees, Ben Salem, uh, born and raised and current resident of uh of Bucks County, Dr.
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Beth Kaplan.
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So let's give it up for Dr.
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Beth Kaplan.
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Thank you.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, of course.
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So uh yeah, so you're currently living in like the Newtown area in Bucks County.
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You're born and raised in Bucks County here.
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Yes.
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You've gone on to do some amazing things, publishing content, published author.
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You have a thousand degrees from University of Penn.
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So tell us where it all began for you.
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Wow.
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So thanks for having me.
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Of course.
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Thanks for being here.
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Proud Ben Salem girl, proud Philly girl.
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Go birds.
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Go birds.
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I mean, that's at least every other breath.
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Um, so for me, it just started like most people, understanding who I am, who I wanted to be, and really under trying to make sense of where my place was in the world.
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I think like many people out there, I just wasn't sure who I was and where I belonged.
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And for me, it felt like I was constantly judging myself in spaces that I wasn't sure I belonged in.
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And then I stopped.
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I stopped and started to question why that was.
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And it felt less alone for me to do that because most of the people around me were doing the same.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So to give everybody a little bit of background, you're one of the leading, if not the leading expert in belonging.
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So in the workplace, in the home, you've published a ton.
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So where you just kind of mentioned it, where did that start for you?
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Do you remember like a certain age or a certain moment or event that happened where you kind of felt out of place to go on this journey?
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Really?
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Forever.
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I don't know if there's any place where I've said, oh, I definitely belong here.
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And most people feel that way.
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I think in reality, it's very unique for me to hear anything different, other than, you know, they hear belonging research and no one's telling me about when they felt like they belong.
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It's always when they felt like they were trying to fit in, which shout out the opposite of belonging is fitting in, if anyone did not know that.
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So for me, growing up in Ben Salem and shout out Ben Salem, I really loved where I was from.
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I felt really a sense of community, but at the same time, noticed some of the inequities that were going on, noticed how people were treated differently.
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And as I started to feel like I wasn't fit to be in certain spaces, I noticed that people around me were doing the same.
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So I was one of those people that actively sought out friendships and groups.
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I probably thought that having a big group of friends meant belonging, truthfully.
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Um, it's like the stereotypical mean girls, right?
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And I wanted to be like that, but I was not a mean girl.
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So that was a good one.
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Shout out to Regina George.
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Yes.
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If you've never seen the movie, yeah.
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I know.
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Um Caddy Heron.
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Not that I've ever seen the movie.
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Like if I was wearing pink, it would be better.
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It's only one, it's Thursday.
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I was just gonna say it's not Wednesday.
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It's terrible that I know that, but no, I think you have all girls.
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I mean, come on.
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Very true.
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Right.
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So for me, it always irked at me a little.
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And I always found myself in the middle of those situations, crafting people's communities.
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I did.
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Went to college.
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I was the pledge mom.
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So Where'd you go to college?
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I went to Pitt.
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I'm a Philly girl.
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Everything Pennsylvania, right?
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I love it.
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So I think Penn for all your graduate degrees and everything, doctorate, yeah.
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Yes, absolutely.
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And I just could not get enough of that feeling of making people feel less alone.
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So I started to adopt a mantra of leading people better than I found them.
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Ooh, I love that.
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Yeah, I figured if that's all I do in life, I'm good.
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I felt good about that.
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Um, fast forward a little bit, joined the working world, originally was in PR, didn't like to be told what I had to write.
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That lasted all of a couple of months.
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I'm gonna live the unscripted life.
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I like that.
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That's that's exactly how I felt.
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Started to grow up in technology, started to run things like onboarding, which again, belonging, right, in the workplace.
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And I was on a steep trajectory up.
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I really was.
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And working for some of the most um notable companies in the world.
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And the more and more I built for myself, the lonelier I felt.
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Really?
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I did.
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Why do you think that was?
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Was it you you just felt like empty, like you were trying to seek something?
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It was connection, but it wasn't always there.
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Was it hard like what what do you mean by that?
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I felt really lonely.
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Like I was craving things that were new, craving possibility.
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And instead of possibility, I felt pressure.
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And I am the type of person that thrives under pressure, but started to notice that all my relationships around me were disappearing.
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Everyone started to lose friendships, started to really just not understand what was going on.
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And the more and more that happened, I was like a girl going into a horror story.
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You know, when you're screaming at the TV, you're like, don't go in that abandoned building.
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I was the one walking into the building constantly and well aware of it.
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So I what that meant to me is I was sacrificing my identity for the workplace over and over again.
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I worked for an incredible leader who, again, promoted me often.
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She left.
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And then I was stuck with this gentleman who just didn't like me.
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That's it.
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And you don't always have to like the people you work with, but you have to respect them.
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Of course, yeah.
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And I felt myself slowly fading and shifting and melting into someone that wasn't me anymore until I really sunk into a heart, a really deep depression.
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How old were you about when this was happening?
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If I have to be honest, I was probably around 40.
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Wow, really?
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Yes, yes.
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And I decided it was on me, which many of us do.
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We think there's something wrong with us.
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But at on paper, again, I had everything you could think of.
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I was packing in conferences of thousands, I was eloquent, I was admired, and I was so miserable.
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So I decided again, I needed to take on more.
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Maybe if I did more, what if I how was I gonna win gold stars?
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And what I decided to do was be honest.
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I told this boss quite a few things about me.
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One, I told him probably the most sacred thing to me around about my children.
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So my oldest is a cancer survivor.
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Oh my gosh.
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Wow.
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He is, he was born with lung cancer.
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And I didn't talk about it in the workplace because I just didn't want that stigma associated with me.
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I didn't want people looking at me with sad eyes.
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That's what happens when you tell people usually.
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And he said to me, Okay, I gotta go.
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Within the same breath.
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And I I was like, I just sold myself out.
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I did for what?
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For someone's approval, someone who constantly criticized me.
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And you know, I always say you shouldn't take criticism from anyone you wouldn't take advice from.
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Yeah, that's it's definitely good advice.
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Yep.
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Um, and then I came back even harder.
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I said, you know what?
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I have to talk to you about this.
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I said, I'm just I just don't feel I can go on.
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And he said, Oh, are these like projects getting you down?
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And I was like, No, in life.
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I think I think I'm suicidal.
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Oh my gosh.
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Wow.
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I did.
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And that was not something I told a doctor, my romantic partner, or anyone else at that point.
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And I felt pathetic.
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I did.
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And what he said to me next changed the trajectory of my of my life.
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It did.
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He said to me, yet again, I'm so sorry.
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I have a meeting.
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I gotta go.
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I quit the next day.
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I did.
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And he said to me, I would have never expected this from you.
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I just and that's all he had to say about it.
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It wasn't like, are you okay?
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No, he tried to get me to stay.
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He tried for the No, he did not.
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And so I knew at that point I needed to do better for myself.
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I needed to care less about people's impression of me working at this big fancy company.
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I needed to um get the relationships back and become more of myself.
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And that's really what happened.
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All of that at once.
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Moved back to Bucks County, um, you know, transferred the kids into different schools and decided to sign up and go to grad school.
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And that's what I did.
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Wow.
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A lot at once, right?
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Yeah, no kidding.
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Yeah, it's it's interesting because like a lot of uh I'm really big on to you know that connection for me is currency.
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Yes.
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Whether we're playing a show and I'm trying to connect with the person that's in the back that's on their phone, like you have an interesting perspective, and you have it too, because you've been on a lot of stages and been, you know, in the workplace.
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And the one the one thing that I always fear, and you know, it comes from stuff.
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I was adopted when I was six weeks old.
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So fear of abandonment for me is top of the docket every day, whether I like it or not.
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So it's stuff that I've had to work through, but I think it's shaped my personality subconsciously in a way where I seek connection constantly and um it's like an obsessive, compulsive thing.
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And probably the reason I host the show, you know, to just get to know people.
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You study your own trauma.
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Well, in a lot of ways, yeah, you know, and it seems like you were able to take sort of that same thing, but hit a breaking point with it, but then bet on yourself and invest it in yourself to say all the external gold stars don't matter as much as the internal gold stars for me right now.
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That's right.
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I was on a mission to redefine belonging.
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Most people think of belonging as part of a social group.
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They think of what can I connect to?
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And instead of looking at it that way, I think of how do we construct it and how do we connect back with ourselves.
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So the way I think about that, and the way you may think about it, because you are craving that connection, right?
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That loyalty, all of the things that matter to you, is belonging is the innate desire to be part of something larger than ourselves without sacrificing who we are.
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It's that last part of the statement that makes it unique.
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And by the way, what Penn argued with me about the most, um, which actually made me stronger because the more and more they were saying, Hey Beth, it's the new inclusion.
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And I'd be like, No, I just don't think so.
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You you determine your own sense of belonging and you determine that connection, not other people, or else that is inclusion.
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So, yeah, I was gonna say, so what is the difference then between belonging the way that you've studied it and really brought it to market as a thing versus inclusion, the way that we sort of know it in a corporate setting, or even just in a social setting, you know?
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Inclusion is the invitation.
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It says you are allowed to be here.
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Now, there's so many instances, I'm sure, where you've been invited somewhere and you just don't feel it.
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You're not feeling it.
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Oh, all the time.
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Yeah.
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Oh my goodness.
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Like you said, I'm sure when you look down and you see a crowd on someone on their phone, I cannot even imagine that.
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Yeah, uh it's not great.
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But at the end of the day, it's like, you know, people are gonna do what they're gonna do.
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I can't control that.
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But that's right.
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It doesn't stop me from you know seeing the interaction and craving to get that person off their damn phone.
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So what can I do?
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Absolutely, you know, because as an artist and a performer, and you know this too, if you saw that and you looked out into a crowd and half the people in the back are moving around, they're leaving, walking in and out, yeah, it's like that that hits you on some level.
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Oh, yeah.
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So you know I can't I was just thinking to myself, I can't imagine how it works for you because you're still playing no matter what.
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Well, yeah, we don't have a choice.
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I'm not stopping the song.
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Right, where I can.
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I can I will all I always find a way to make sure I've grouped them in, but I have the luxury of stopping what I'm doing or changing what I'm doing, where you are just you're playing, playing through.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's a it's a tough thing.
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Um, and it's not to say it happens often, you know, but different situations are are all different.
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But um, do you find that the most successful people that have gone through the transformation of really studying belonging and you know, adopting it and actually putting it into practice, do they go inward first before they're seeking kind of the outward?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, I believe something like we think about our own sense of belonging, who we are and where we belong, something like every 13 minutes in in reality.
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Think about any time you've ever been in a new environment, it's even less time.
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You decide within the first three seconds whether or not you belong there.
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What's amazing is when people stop, internalize it, and decide what they're gonna do next, especially if you're not feeling it.
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So anyone out there, if I certainly if I leave a place, it's not offensive.
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It's just I know myself, I know what's going to be, and I don't want to be the person miserable in the room.
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Yeah.
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You're just going from limbic system to frontal lobe at that point.
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You're saying I'm not letting emotion take over.
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I'm gonna rationalize it and decide.
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That's right.
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And you know, yeah, I I would hope that people internalize it.
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We know from the science that they do, it's what they do with it next that really counts.
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So what what's the path, I guess?
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Are you other than you know, publishing and working inside of companies now, are you is there like a a transformation per se that, you know, because that's a big buzzword right now that a lot of you know, coaches and influencers and such, you know, kind of talk about.
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But is there kind of a path or a transformation that you can sort of coach people through?
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Is that sort of what the the program kind of looks like for you?
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Or I think it's a lot of things.
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I'm one of those people who doesn't I get bored that easy.
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So for me, my mission's always gonna be to be make people feel less alone.
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So in the coaching I do, it's really to understand where people are sacrificing parts of themselves that they shouldn't be anymore.
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Again, you're a musician.
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If you love it, but then you have to stop doing it for any reason, it's still in your DNA, it's in your blood.
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Yeah.
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Um, it probably makes you feel less like you the furthest you get away from it.
00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:01.360
So I would coach you back.
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:03.200
That's a that's a really good point.
00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:13.759
And you know, having a business and a family with three kids and touring, you know, there was there were two years that we played 120 plus shows a year.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:18.159
And I had I was on the road, two kids at the time, then three.
00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:30.080
And it finally got to a point where I was like, to your point, do I pursue this thing because I know it I I don't feel more like I belong anywhere than when I'm on a stage.
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:30.399
Yeah.
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:31.360
For better or worse.
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:31.840
That's how I feel.
00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.320
I'm sure you feel guilty about that, but yeah, yeah.
00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:40.960
It doesn't mean that you know I'm better than anybody else or at being a musician, it's just that that's where I feel most comfortable.
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.480
And a lot of times for me, all the times that I'm not on a stage get very confusing at times.
00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:46.960
Yes.
00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:51.519
Because it brings me back to the place that I feel like I am most comfortable.
00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:51.919
Yeah.
00:13:52.080 --> 00:14:01.200
You know, but on the other side of the coin, it's like reality hits in and I don't want to miss any more moments of soccer practice watching my daughters do what they do.
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:01.519
Yeah.
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.679
You know, so how do you how would you help me kind of, you know, balance that?
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:07.600
Uh, I think it's a negotiation, right?
00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:11.120
It's always a negotiation of your morals, your integrity.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.399
And that's exactly what we do on a daily basis for any of the decisions we make.
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:18.960
I often feel I imagine it as a ping pong, like um, not ping pong.
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:22.559
Like a tennis match kind of a thing, or it can be, but the arcade game.
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:23.519
It's the pinball.
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:24.480
Pinball, that's it.
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:24.799
Yes.
00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:30.799
You're constantly indexing between your decisions, your values, your your sense of integrity.
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:36.799
Like the things that matter most to you, where you're gonna fall out of alignment is when you break the things that make you you.
00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:41.120
So if you were to fully give up music, no one else around you would be that happy with it either.
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:41.840
I can assure you.
00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:43.200
You wouldn't be yourself.
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:48.559
So I always say, you what you need to figure out first is is the sacrifice noble or not?
00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:49.120
Okay.
00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:54.320
There's a lot of sacrifices that we make that are just not noble, but they just feel bad in the moment or good in the moment.
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:54.799
Okay.
00:14:55.120 --> 00:15:00.480
For example, I know fully that music brings me back to myself and travel does.
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:01.600
For you personally.
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:02.799
For me personally.
00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.600
Um, just like nostalgia, you hear certain songs.
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:07.600
I hear Wonderful Tonight by Eric Clapton.
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:10.399
I'm immediately thinking of high school and I'm well past that age.
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:14.799
But I mean, for me, it takes me back to a time where I was a different person.
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:16.480
And you're different people at all times.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:17.120
That's okay.
00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:18.639
That's what makes you you.
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:24.000
So you're paying homage to who you were and who it brings you to in the present.
00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:30.720
So I always say to people, really start understanding what your values are and what you're no longer willing to sacrifice.
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:37.919
And then what you're gonna do is you're gonna have the conversation with the person that you might be partnering with about that to say, this is how I'm feeling.
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:38.960
Let's work it out.
00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:41.919
A lot of the times we don't do that because we feel selfish.
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:42.480
Right?
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:45.279
You feel like, oh my goodness, I've missed one more recital.
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:46.799
I can't miss any more.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:47.440
Right.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:55.440
But you also have to decide then if when you're in the situation doing something you don't want to do, if it's gonna be your best self doing it.
00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:57.279
Because no one wants you at half speed.
00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:58.960
I you don't want to be at half speed.
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.799
I have these conversations both internally and with my wife, like weekly.
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:13.919
Yes, you know, trying to negotiate and figure out, you know, we got offered a wedding, say in like upstate New York or in Florida or something, and I negotiate first with myself now, where it's like, yeah, the money's great.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:24.399
It'd be a lot of fun to be in Miami for three days, but you know, now I'm at the point where I'm gonna miss a dance competition, a soccer practice, and my three-year-old just being a lunatic.
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:32.240
And there was a point where I don't know that during and and right after COVID, when we were all grounded, that I wasn't seeking the escape.
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:32.720
Of course.
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.480
That's kind of part of it, like a lot of us were.
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:43.519
Um, you know, so now that things are somewhat normal again, you know, it's that negotiation is something that I didn't even realize I was sort of doing with myself.
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:44.320
Constantly.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:44.720
Yeah.
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:45.120
Right.
00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:51.440
And is that kind of the so your phrase like return to belonging, is that kind of like where that sort of comes from?
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.000
And that that whole negotiation is that what that's doing?
00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:54.799
Absolutely.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.279
And being comfortable with the choices you're making.
00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:09.359
So for me, sisters not twins in this one, where I would be worrying about the job I was being offered or worrying about these things, and I would be so nervous going to my husband, like, oh, this opportunity is huge.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:10.640
I could make this or I could do that.
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:10.960
Yeah.
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:13.200
Terri nervous, actually nervous.
00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.599
And he would, I'd say, okay, can we talk about this?
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:17.920
And it was never scary, never one time.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.720
Because he would be like, Oh, wait, hell yeah, go make that money.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:20.960
Yeah.
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.559
Or at the same time, is this going to be good for your mental state?
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:26.960
And that's really was a shift for me.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.720
I stopped being nervous to have the conversations because I realized we were on the same team.
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:31.119
Yeah.
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:36.079
And if he does not like something where it's going to be detrimental to my family, he's going to be the first to tell me.
00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:36.480
Yeah.
00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:48.720
And it's usually, you know, things that you don't realize, like if you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious and just kind of in your head constantly about stuff, it takes a good partner in a healthy relationship to kind of call your bullshit on it, you know, a lot of times.
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:49.599
Absolutely.
00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:53.279
I mean, there's a story we tell ourselves in those.
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:54.400
It's wild up here.
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.480
And it's just wild.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.799
So I know that my person, my husband, is the person that grounds me.
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:01.200
Yep.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:02.880
You know, he's contextual.
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:03.279
Same.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:03.519
Yeah.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:04.960
It's never the end of the world to him.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.440
He might say it's the end of the day, but not the end of the world for sure.
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:08.640
That's a good line, too.
00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:14.720
Um, I I have to shout out to Stacey Epstein, who's probably watching this, who's one of my best friends, who is definitely where I got that from.
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:16.400
I could not have made that gem up.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.720
I was gonna say, man, you're you're really good at this.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:19.279
Yeah.
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:26.000
Um so for let's kind of transition to the workplace a little bit because that's where you've done most of your your work.
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:26.960
That's right.
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:36.559
So if are you typically coaching people that are going through a career transition and trying to figure out if a new opportunity is right for them?
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:46.640
Is it more they feel stuck in a job that they like that's paying the bills, that they just don't feel connected to the work or to the people, or is it kind of a combination of all things?
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:48.640
It's a combination of all things.
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:51.440
I find it like lead to be group therapy.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:52.960
Um, in fact, I love that.
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.279
I'll go on book clubs and I'll talk to people.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.440
And it very little is about the workplace unless they are at their wits' end.
00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.200
Like they are at a point where, oh my goodness, this is my livelihood.
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:06.160
I need to support a family, but I cannot be here anymore.
00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:08.000
And their gut instinct is to quit.
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:12.400
But here's the thing if they don't resolve the trauma that they're going through, it'll follow them.
00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:14.400
So it doesn't matter what job they go to.
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.799
You carry up to the last five bosses with you at all times, whether they were great or horrible.
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:19.200
Okay.
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.839
And that could last up to 15 years easily.
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:30.240
So in that case, yeah, if you're if you're coaching not only an employee, but then a CEO or, you know, I'm a business owner, obviously.
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:38.319
And how would you have coached your former boss, you know, that kind of gave you that very just cold reaction, you know?
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:43.599
Like, how would you have sat him down and be like, look, go through my training so something like this doesn't occur in the future?
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.920
I would probably, that's a great question.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.039
I've never been asked that one.
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:48.480
Um I'm sorry to bring it up.
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:55.839
It's just absolutely I would probably explain to him how you meet employees where they're at.
00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:04.400
Because I think a lot of the time, most executive leaders see belonging as a soft skill and really it has a huge impact on the bottom line.
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:08.640
Meeting people where they're at, especially as a manager, is is huge.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:14.880
Our managers have more impact on our mental health than our romantic partners and our doctors.
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:21.920
So knowing the impact that you have, meeting people where they're at, and at the same time, understanding the spectrum of care.
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.759
So a lot of people think care and they're like, oh, thoughtfulness, friendliness.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.440
Care is a massive spectrum.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:32.240
Care is kindness and for sure, but it's also clarity, right?
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:33.440
Clear is kind.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.720
Whether or not you set expectations properly is care.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.440
Whether or not you're speaking my name in a room I'm not in for opportunity, that's care.
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.839
So understanding this big wide spectrum and the impact that you have on people.
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:52.480
So if I were to go back to him, I would have said, you probably don't care about me, and that's fine.
00:20:52.640 --> 00:21:00.559
But at the same time, there are things you can care within my realm to make my job easier and to make it feel less of an uphill battle to work for you.
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.759
Yeah, it's just remove interference from me.
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:06.960
Just, you know, treat me the way you treat a normal person.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.559
Not an employee or someone that you're paying to do a particular job.
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:11.039
Yeah.
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:20.799
It's because you know, like all of us, like I've had amazing mentors and bosses, and some that over 20 years I still work and communicate and collaborate with today.
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:31.599
And there's been some that have I've had that same experience where it's very, you know, non-emotional, and it's like going to a doctor and they're treating the disease, not the patient.
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:31.920
Right.
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:32.559
You know, yes.
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.799
And it's like I showed up on a PL and that's all that I was good to the company.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:37.359
Yes.
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:39.680
Which, you know, I've worked at Meta.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:45.119
Like I was, you know, employee badge number XYZ, and I had XYZ quota, and that was it.
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:45.680
Yes.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:46.240
Right.
00:21:46.480 --> 00:22:02.640
So, you know, how do you sort of go about training leaders and executives to shift their PL brain off and go more right brain and be like, look, there's a whole level of care and kindness and communication and clarity that you Have to be really proficient in.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:08.319
So immediately when you said meta and you start, I was going down a path on my head of sales.
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:12.720
So if you're in a sales environment, before you meet with a client, you're gonna research them, right?
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.640
You're gonna learn who they are, you're gonna understand what matters to them and what's important.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.599
That is exactly what you do with your employees, right?
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:22.640
You understand, um, you know, this is Beth.
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:27.440
She went to school for rhetoric, political science, communications.
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.319
She she liked persuasion and now she's an engineer.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.880
I would just say, you know, I just was passing by LinkedIn the other day and I just saw that you were this, this, and this, but you got into engineering.
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:37.920
How did that happen?
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:38.240
Yeah.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:46.400
And just asking those questions and forming interest in the person really will lead to the things they like, the things they don't like.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:46.960
Okay.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:52.640
And when you're doing that, it is very easy as a leader to be able to say, Do you still do you miss any of that?
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.079
Do you want to do that in your job?
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:56.400
You'd be surprised what that return looks like.
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:57.119
It's insane.
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:01.119
Because what happens is they think to myself, oh my goodness, they're actually learning about me.
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:03.759
They care about what I care about.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.720
And you will put way more discretionary and non-discretionary efforts into your job.
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:14.160
And if you're the type of manager that also goes the extra mile to incorporate them in that job, then you're really ACES.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.240
How have you seen that show up specifically on a PL?
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:27.440
Like are there case studies or things that you've researched to say, like, hey, look, we've gone through this program, people are way more, you know, indoctrinated into this philosophy now.
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:27.759
Yeah.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:32.319
And they were able to achieve X output or productive from their employees.
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.839
Like, what's the the output or the the ROI that you're see that you're looking for?
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:37.119
Yeah, so care.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.160
Care is the number one thing that people want from their leaders in the workplace.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:47.680
So when employees say that they feel like their leaders care about them, we see a higher return, higher productivity.
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:48.000
Okay.
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.200
Incrementally, not even anything in between.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:57.359
We see people that want to be there, that would recommend their other people in their lives to work for those companies or those leaders.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:04.240
And one of the questions I always like to ask is, are you asking if that employee would follow you to the next job?
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:05.759
That's a great question, too.
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:06.160
Yeah.
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:06.720
Yeah.
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:07.200
Yeah.
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:11.119
Cause a lot of times, you know, people don't leave bad companies, they leave bad bosses.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.640
Is like I love that one.
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:16.480
Do you so I'm sure you saw that article like 15 years ago, right?
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.640
Do you know there was no research on that at all?
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:19.279
Really?
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:20.559
No, but you believed it, right?
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:26.880
I'm a percent it it's stuck with me enough to say it publicly and be a small business owner, and I try to adopt that here.
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:27.839
Absolutely.
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:31.599
I will tell you, humble brag, my research was the first to actually prove it.
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:32.160
Really?
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:32.559
Yeah.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.920
I I believed it like everyone else.
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.480
I quoted it as Bible pretty much.
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:36.720
Yeah.
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:42.799
And then when I went to do the research, when I had that situation with a leader that I just felt so bad around, right?
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.359
I started to look at the research and there was very little out there.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.240
So that's why I decided I was going to be the one who put it out there.
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:48.640
Wow.
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:50.079
Um, but there was nothing around it.
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:51.920
But we all believed it because it makes sense.
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:53.680
That hits home for anybody.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:03.920
I mean, everyone I know that's not in an entrepreneurial type of a path that's in, you know, medical device sales or pharma or SaaS or AI sales or marketing, whatever.
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:08.079
I'd say about 50% of them just can't stand the person that they work for.
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:08.720
That's right.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:15.680
And I would say if you are a leader out there trying to do better, ask your employees what they liked about their last few bosses.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:16.960
Ask what they didn't like.
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:18.480
That's huge right there.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:21.359
You know, start conversations like what can I do to help you?
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:23.119
What can I take off your plate?
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:27.279
These are really small victories to you, but they're huge to the person on the other end.
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:28.319
Yeah, and you're right.
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:37.920
You know, calling out, you know, calling out the obvious to like a super driven, you know, very cutthroat industry like really anything, medical device.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.599
If you're in sales or go to market, it can be as cutthroat and wicked as people can imagine.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:44.160
Yeah.
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:59.680
You know, so for you calling this like a soft skill, you know, what would be the message to any mid-level sales manager out there that literally is just waking up every morning obsessing over bottom line production quotas and that sort of thing?
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:04.640
I would say if you're looking for a real game changer, you start looking at care, start mapping it out strategically.
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:06.960
People always say to me, but Beth, then it's not authentic.
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:07.519
Yes, it is.
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:08.880
It can become authentic.
00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:14.319
I hate to also point this out, but it doesn't always have to be authentic care.
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:16.160
That's I know it's bad.
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.519
Don't don't hate me for that.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.799
But the reality is that the person on the other end just wants care.
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:29.200
They just so they even just want the the impression or the thought that you're going through the process asking them about themselves and just trying to learn.
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:29.599
Yeah.
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:30.000
That's right.
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:34.480
Uh that being said, if you don't follow up with it, it's going to diminish your returns significantly as well.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:34.880
Sure.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:38.400
Yeah, you can send a Slack message being like, you know, hey, how are you doing?
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:38.799
Yes.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:40.079
I'm sure that goes a long way.
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:44.559
But if there's no follow-up or no behavior change as a result of it, then it seems disingenuous.
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.240
And then it's like, I hate this person even more.
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:47.279
That's right.
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:57.519
So I I'll be honest with you, when I have that situation where I'm not so sure that I can interact as much with a person that I don't necessarily care about, I'll put it on my calendar.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.559
Check in with so-and-so, ask how their daughter's doing.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:02.240
So-and-so played baseball.
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:06.319
And it's not disingenuous to me because I do want to care about them.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:06.799
Right.
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.160
And this helps me do it.
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.599
And at the same time, it makes them feel the fact that I do care about them.
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.079
So whether I think it's authentic, I think we confuse the word organic and authentic quite a bit.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:17.200
That's a really good point.
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:17.519
Yeah.
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:20.960
So I'm not the believer in bringing your authentic self to work.
00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:22.960
I'm the person that believes in bringing your best self.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:26.799
I I saw, I think something you had done saying that same thing.
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.079
And then I don't, I forget somebody else I saw just saying the exact same thing.
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:34.079
And I saw it and I was like, wow, that's a really Yeah, it's powerful.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:34.880
Yeah, it really is.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:35.359
Right.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:38.240
I mean, you're not meant to bring every part of you to any place.
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:38.559
Yeah.
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:39.759
And why would you give that away?
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:42.000
That's your that's your currency, right?
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:43.680
That's what makes you you.
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.799
There are certain things that you just don't need to share and you don't need to do.
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:48.880
This is coming from the world's biggest overshare.
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:50.880
So I mean it sincerely.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:53.440
Just bring your best, not your most.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:58.559
Yeah, forget it was like Mel Robbins or someone that had said, I think, something really similar to that.
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:00.160
And that stuck with me too.
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:15.759
You know, in a small business like we have, you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of other people in Bucks County, small business owners, entrepreneurs, it's it's hard to not be authentic in the way you show up because there's no place to hide in a place with, you know, less than 50 employees.
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:17.519
People are gonna sniff out your bullshit.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:18.240
Absolutely.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:32.640
You know, so for people that might be still stuck in corporate mind where the PL and profitability is the only thing that matters, what's like the first step that they could do to kind of help show that they're interested and build that kindness among their employees?
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:35.519
Like something really simple that they can just try today.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:44.400
I think the best thing that they can try today is to literally map out the people around them and see when the last time they had a real conversation with them was.
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.799
And I'm not saying real about your business.
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:48.480
So that's a mind shift.
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:51.200
It's not about your vision and your mission.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:54.880
It's learning about what theirs may be and how you can be of service to them.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:57.359
And a lot of people would say that's leadership anyway, right?
00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:57.599
Yeah.
00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:59.279
You want to coach and grow the people around you.
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:01.359
And how do you do that if you don't know who they are?
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:04.640
And I'm not saying you know their mother's middle name.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:09.279
I'm saying you know enough about them for them to thrive, right?
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:14.720
You want to move past what your needs are because I promise you it will show a return for you if you do it.
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:15.599
You you will get it.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:36.720
Are you a believer in things like culture index and things as like a starting point to just kind of get those wheels in motion or um I'm a skeptic, is what I'd say, because I think culture index and a lot of those um ways of looking at things, they're based on a lot of assumptions that you're all gonna be the same in a sense.
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:38.720
Like they're they look for cultural fits.
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:41.039
That's right.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.079
And I would be the person that says, no, go against that grain.
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:45.680
You don't always want a culture fit.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:47.599
You want someone that's gonna be a disruptive fit.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.000
That's how transformation really happens, right?
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:51.119
Being uncomfortable.
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.319
Go tell me more about that because I'm I'm curious.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:30:01.119
Because a lot of times what you know, the bigger the company, the more that culture index and those things like have to be a requisite for any HR team.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.920
But why a disruptive fit?
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:08.720
I mean, not like they're gonna come in screaming and yelling and cause chaos, but go tell me more about that.
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.039
Because it'll teach you how to look at things in a different way.
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:26.079
If you're all seeing things the same way, while it would be great for a purpose or mission, as long as all of your purposes and all your missions are the same, what happens is when people start to see the differences, they start to imagine that there's something wrong with them.
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.119
They start to internalize it and they're definitely not gonna tell you.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:31.039
Definitely not telling the boss about that.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:33.359
They feel like they don't fit in, right?
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.599
And while I always like to say you should fit out, not fit in, um like that.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:48.160
There are times when it's not going to serve you well to really go against your moral fiber based on something you thought you you think should be part of it.
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:48.319
Yeah.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.119
So I always like to say, F the coulds shoulds and woulds.
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:56.559
And that is that's really big, but a lot of us don't do that because you, it's your livelihood, you're tied to it.
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:04.160
Um, so going against the grain if it is great if you're protecting your identity, but you're not in that situation necessarily.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:10.799
So most people around you are not gonna tell you when they're gonna do things like um make it look like they align with you when they don't.
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.160
I always think of duck syndrome.
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:13.440
I don't know if you've ever heard of that one.
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.079
Duck syndrome is think about a duck.
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:19.920
They look like they're gliding across the water, but their little legs are pedaling so hard.
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:20.960
Yeah, yep.
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:25.680
And there's so much doubt in their head, and they make it look good and look aligned and look easy.
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:32.559
So if you're a leader out there, you have to really question whether or not everyone nodding their head at you is authentic in that sense.
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:34.640
And that's where authenticity does matter.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:59.599
Yeah, it's it's interesting because um specifically to sales and like go to market, sales is it at least in my experience in 20 years, I've had a lot of sales roles for software companies, AI at Meta specifically, and they are looking for someone who is going to follow the process that is young enough, coachable enough, and they want to see you know, can you do your own prospecting?
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.079
Can you follow the rules of the system that we've given you?
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.960
Discovery qualification, follow the pipe, right?
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:05.839
Exactly right.
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:15.759
And it almost looks like they're looking for a very specific cog that can process the information and the leads to get a predictable outcome, which is going to be 30% close rate or whatever that is.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.599
I'm a musician and a like kind of spastic creative person.
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:23.359
So in a sales role, I was always kind of the lone wolf disruptor guy.
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:24.160
Yes, yes.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:26.240
That was probably pinned a little bit different.
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:30.079
Like I wasn't great at updating my CRM and Salesforce every day.
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.640
I can't follow process the way that others can.
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:33.359
Sure.
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:48.720
And, you know, I don't know if that was ego or immaturity or whatever it was, but I was always so result-driven that I would run through brick walls to get stuff done and always was a top performer, but I did it sort of on my own terms.
00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:50.240
Well, it sounds like you were a disruptor.
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:56.240
You weren't someone that was going to I was just making sure I'd sort of if that was the example you're going for, that's hits home for me.
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.400
I've oh I've seen it work the best that way.
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.319
And I have a background in go to market also.
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:06.720
So um there is a fine balance, right, of making sure that the rigor is there, right?
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.519
So you can't necessarily not enter something into Salesforce, for example.
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:09.839
Right.
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:10.079
Yeah.
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.359
That's your cash register.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:17.279
But at the same time, you need to be able to do what works for that client at the end of the day.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:19.599
And that's usually transformation and disruption.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:23.039
And that's the same thing for your employees, literally the same thing.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:27.519
If you're hiring all the same people and wondering why you're not getting results, you just answered your own question.
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:28.000
Yep.
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.039
Because you need someone that's going to think outside the box.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:37.119
You need more creatives that are going to be able to say, okay, this is not the solution we offer, but this is what they need.
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.440
So I'm falling in love with their problems.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:40.240
Yeah.
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:41.440
That's it.
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:46.160
Sales reps out there that fall in love with the client's problems, they are the most successful that I've seen.
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:48.319
Oh, you that hits at my heartstrings.
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:54.720
One of my favorite songwriters and artists, to go on a nerd music path for a second, uh-huh, this guy named Larry Fleet.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:55.039
Uh-huh.
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:57.599
He's not super well known, but he's a Nashville songwriter.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:33:59.519
He's written for Morgan Wallen and all these amazing things.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:01.200
I've heard I've actually really have heard of him.
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:01.519
Really?
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:03.759
Son, my son's a huge country music fan, so yeah.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:04.400
Oh, cool.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.559
So um, my wife and a bunch of people went to see him at the Keswick Theater last week.
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.599
And he has this line in one of his songs.
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:12.800
It's called My Problems.
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:16.320
And it's if I could fall in love with my problems, maybe they'd leave me too.
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:18.400
You know, but it's a it's a that's so fascinating.
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:25.440
It's such a country line, you know, because it's like all these things I fall in love with end up leaving me, leave me heartbroken, you know, drive to depression.
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:29.039
So if I could just fall in love with my problems, they maybe they'd leave me too.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:30.559
Yeah, but that that's the thing.
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:33.360
You fall in love with someone else's problems, you feel like what?
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:34.320
You're in it together.
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:34.719
Yeah.
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:36.960
That's the same thing with every walk of life.
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:41.840
I always love to do this test, and anyone out there listening should do it as well.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:46.320
When someone's going through crisis and you say we're in it together, you should see how their body physically changes.
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:46.800
Really?
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.960
They are pensive and then they drop their shoulders.
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:51.519
Or there's certain tells that they give right away.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:52.960
And it's the same in every walk of life.
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:53.599
It really is.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:01.840
So would you just for the lay person that you know, I I try to be in tune with this as a business owner with the people that we have here that I truly really care about.
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.880
They were some were clients, some have been friends for a really long time.
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:11.679
We share the common bond, most of us, of being weirdo creatives, musicians, and I think that's Stay weird.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:12.079
Yeah.
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:14.480
You know, it's the thing that that unites us all.
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:31.519
But for in a more corporate setting, does this fall under, not to like oversimplify it, but like emotional intelligence to a degree, or is this something with belonging that you feel like is a totally different vector or pillar of of like corporate communications, I guess?
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.800
That's a really good question.
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:34.480
So I want to just say yes.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:36.880
But that's not gonna be helpful.
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:41.199
So yes, I do believe that you do need a certain amount of emotional intelligence.
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.559
And it's very, very difficult to test for that in an interview.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:47.519
So shout out if you're looking for that in the interview.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:49.199
Let me know if you find it.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:55.440
Um, that's why most of us get feel like they're a little snowed over when you have an interview and then it turns out that the person doesn't work.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:03.920
I do think belonging and um emotional intelligence are heavily connected, and psychological safety is another one I would really throw out there.
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:05.039
That's interesting too.
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:12.079
Yeah, I'm just I'm thinking back to times where I've been on interviews and you think the interaction goes really well.
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.760
You know, you have proof points, you have, you know, what you've done in your career.
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:16.079
Yeah.
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.400
You get a good vibe, I guess, from the person.
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:23.760
But then you don't get a callback, or there's, you know, they say, well, you know, we were just looking for someone different.
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:24.239
Okay.
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:29.679
You know, it's it's all case by case, of course, but like how would you explain when something like that happens?
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:39.760
I don't know if I can explain it necessarily, but what I would say is I hope that you or anyone else interviewing realizes it's a bi-directional feed.
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:43.599
So that you are supposed to be interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you.
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:44.400
It's a great, yeah.
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:45.039
It's a great thing.
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:50.639
I don't interview very much, but if I were, I would probably really ask questions about the person's leadership style.
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:52.320
What are their expectations?
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.239
What does success look like to you?
00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:02.000
Because that again is that um pinball machine of your anchoring back and forth and you know right away if it's gonna work.
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:02.639
You do.
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:06.880
I've been that person that has ignored my intuition 100% and it never serves me well.
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:11.679
So I would really think about making sure that it's a two-way street when you're doing that.
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:25.760
How do you do that as a as someone who's the interviewee, you know, and not be threatened or intimidated by, you know, going in prepping, knowing that, you know, hey, you have to be as good of a fit for me as I have to be for you.
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:31.440
I would have a certain amount of questions or things that I need to stick to and get answered, as weird as they may feel.
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.920
And I don't know if this is a hot take or not.
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.880
I may ask them at the interview if if they think I'm a fit.
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.239
That's a great way to close it.
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:38.719
Yes.
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:39.199
You know?
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.559
I don't I've never left an interview without asking at least.
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:45.920
Whether or not they give me a straightforward answer is also very telling.
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:46.320
Yeah.
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:47.760
It's like, oh, we'll talk about it.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:49.199
We'll take it back and review it with the team.
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.760
And you know, and when I interview, I do the same thing.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:54.400
I never leave an interview call without telling the person where they stand.
00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:58.239
Can you just imagine if everyone did that and you wouldn't feel so ghosted all the time?
00:37:58.559 --> 00:37:59.360
That's the worst.
00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:00.880
There's nothing worse than that.
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:05.599
Whether it's a prospect, a client, an interview, you know, a relationship you have in your personal life.
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:06.559
Absolutely.
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:06.960
Exactly.
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.280
I'd rather be told straight up if it works or if it doesn't.
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:09.599
Yeah.
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.280
I mean, I'm a straight shooter.
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:13.039
Um, if you couldn't tell already.
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.199
But that's huge.
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:24.079
I'd respect the person interviewing me so much more if they were like, you know, Beth, you're a really cool woman, but you're just not the right fit for us because we need X, Y, and Z.
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:27.119
And I'd say, thank you for your time, be in let's be in touch.
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:27.599
Yeah.
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:28.880
Or vice versa.
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:33.280
I've also been on the receiving end where I'm like, you know, this is our super cool company.
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:36.079
I just think there might be a better candidate out there that you should be talking to.
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:36.480
Yeah.
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:37.039
Yeah.
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:44.639
It's it's hard to do that, you know, because it's it's very hard to be that direct um because you don't want to let people down and for you know, all the million reasons.
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:57.840
Do you find that more more companies that you work with do that versus like just kind of leave people stranded or you still think it's more I think it's people are like options, they like a lot of choices.
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:04.639
I think that if I was the person's fit on their first go-around, they would probably wait, right, to see what other people are out there.
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:08.960
Yeah, no matter how much of fit you know, if I was internalizing that, that would be.
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.519
So no, I don't think a lot of companies do it that way.
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:15.519
I think more of the successful companies I hear about do do that.
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:19.920
They won't put a candidate through and they're starting to look at their practices to be a bit more humane.
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:20.400
Yeah.
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:20.800
Yeah.
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:36.559
Do you find that you have more um not success necessarily, but do you find that the are are you having more success transformation-wise, or just people, you know, subscribing and adopting this philosophy of belonging more on the personal side or more in the at the corporate level?
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:37.679
Personal for sure.
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:38.159
Really?
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:38.559
Yeah.
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:47.199
I it's still in most CEOs top three belonging, but they usually have so many issues that belonging falls to the bottom of their list.
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:49.360
For themselves or for their team and their employees.
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:50.400
All the way around.
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:52.800
Yeah, most executives at the top feel lonely.
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:54.639
That's definitely something documented.
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.000
Um, you know, when you're at the top, it's hard to know who to trust.
00:39:58.079 --> 00:39:59.760
It's hard to know who to talk to.
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:04.079
And if you don't have a boss, most people they feel a lack of partnership around them.
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:06.480
Yeah, absolutely.
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.320
What's the what's the hardest thing for them to do?
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:13.440
I I guess it's a a smattering of all kinds of different things, you know?
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:13.760
Yeah.
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.320
The kindness, the clarity, a lot of the things you talked about.
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:18.960
But where do you start with a CEO most times?
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:24.239
One of the questions I like to ask CEOs is what do they like learning from when it comes to their employees?
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:25.199
What do they enjoy learning?
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:27.280
Who do they enjoy learning from and what?
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:31.199
And they, you know, and if they say nothing and nobody, then it's usually a pretty good thing.
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:32.719
I'm like, well, that's where we gotta start.
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:36.000
Because the thing is, learning is bi-directional.
00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:40.320
I learn way more from the people that I'm around than I think they learn from me.
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:41.599
Um that's huge.
00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:44.159
I if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:50.960
I really do believe that because enjoying and learning and maybe feeling a little uncomfortable is really what's gonna help you grow.
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.360
Yeah.
00:40:51.519 --> 00:41:01.360
So if you're taking the time to learn from people around you, and that could be anything from what's being said at the water cooler to um a new surgical procedure that's being taught.
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.360
I mean, there's every facet you can think of.
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:03.760
Yeah.
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.840
I think that it's just has that I don't know if you'd call it a growth mindset.
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:10.000
Um it's like an abundance mindset.
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:11.599
It is an abundance mindset, yes.
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:13.039
That's exactly what it is.
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:20.239
Um, I think that that's really what does it for people is being feel like they're being heard and they're valued and seen.
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:23.360
Um, and especially when it's from the top down, truly.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:30.639
And if you're creating a culture like that, that means that you're giving that disruption and that okay to everyone in the organization to do the same thing.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:31.039
Yeah.
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:31.280
Yeah.
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:32.960
So I'm gonna ask the hard question.
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:36.639
So for a CEO, you're doing some of the training, they're going through this.
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:41.840
How does this show up or how have you seen it show up on the bottom line to a PL?
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:42.480
Sure.
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.760
So uh retention is a real easy one.
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:46.400
Okay, yep.
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:47.519
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:49.199
People don't want to work for jerks.
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:55.119
I always like to say if you're if you're trying to really attract talent, say, we're a company that doesn't like to work with jerks.
00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:58.559
That to me has baited me many times.
00:41:58.800 --> 00:41:59.039
Really?
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:00.800
Yeah, I don't want to work with jerks.
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:01.119
Do you?
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:01.599
No.
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:03.360
No, no one wants to work for jerks.
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:09.760
So looking at your retention, engagement, but I'd also look at your individual progression of employees.
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:12.000
Where are people going in their careers?
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:14.159
Um That's an interesting one, too.
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:18.400
Yeah, the like path to promotion, you know, all that kind of stuff, I imagine too, right?
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:19.920
Absolutely, and path to praise.
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.079
So it doesn't even have to mean that's a good one.
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:25.679
Um it doesn't necessarily mean promotion being into leadership.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:28.480
I mean, leadership is a lot of administrative work, it's not that exciting.
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:39.199
It's trust me, as someone who's made that transition, I always go back to being a contributor or starting a business, which is the ultimate, you know, absolutely.
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:44.880
So I always like to say it's really a matter of understanding what that pat to praise looks like.
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:48.320
You're gonna have people you work with that love some like praise.
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:49.519
They want to see it in the sky, right?
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:50.480
Gold stars, you know?
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:51.199
Gold stars.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:52.400
Yes, I do.
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.719
Um, some people want to see it written in the sky.
00:42:54.800 --> 00:43:01.920
Some people want a healthy note sent to them to say, Beth, I liked when you said this, it resonated to me like that.
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:08.079
I have a person that I work with, such a star, wants to die anytime someone publicly praises them.
00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:12.480
Completely cannot handle it, loves in fact, and also doesn't believe it, right?
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:14.320
A little bit of imposter syndrome in there.
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:19.679
But at the same time, when I when someone privately gives them feedback, it means the world to them.
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:20.400
They light up.
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:26.559
People think they don't want praise because they don't accept praise in the way that you would accept it, or I may take it.
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:26.960
Sure.
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:30.320
So it's understanding that path to praise just as much as promotion.
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:36.320
A lot of people will tell you, um, believe it or not, that money is the last thing on their list when it comes to promotion.
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:36.800
Wow.
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:37.280
Yeah.
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:41.039
It's just feeling valued, recognized, and cared for, which is number one.
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:41.519
Yeah.
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:46.239
The the motivation between individuals is so vastly different for every person.
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:46.880
That's right.
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:51.119
I was always the person in sales or, you know, in on marketing teams, whatever.
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:57.280
If there was a scoreboard up in the lounge, yes, I had to be at the top of that scoreboard.
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:58.639
I don't care what I had to do.
00:43:58.719 --> 00:43:59.039
Oh, yeah.
00:43:59.199 --> 00:43:59.760
How many calls.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.559
I had to take whatever I would find a way to get to that.
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:04.079
I could care less about the money.
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:04.880
Truthfully.
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:05.119
Yeah.
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:06.079
Meant nothing to me.
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:11.840
It was more the validation and you know, the adoration to myself that I proved that I could do it.
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:12.719
Oh, completely.
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:14.400
I was not a sandbagger for the record.
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:15.440
Oh, come on.
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:16.400
We all were at some point.
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:17.199
Yeah.
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:26.000
Um I will say that I was not the person you wanted in your forecast calls because I would be, I'd have my own number in my head and I'd be shooting to it.
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:28.320
And then I'd get to the reality of what someone else was expecting.
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:29.039
And it didn't matter.
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:30.719
I could be 30% above quota.
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:34.800
But then we'd be in the rigor type of the meeting and it'd be like, but I'm 30% above my quota.
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:35.440
Yes.
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:36.079
So who cares?
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:36.719
Who cares?
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:37.280
But they do.
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:41.039
They care because obviously transparency, visibility, accuracy.
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:46.239
But no, I think having your own goals in that sense is really what does make you stronger.
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:46.719
Yeah.
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:50.000
And that's uh being the lone wolf or disruptor salesperson.
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:51.599
Sounds like you were a lot like me.
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:52.239
Yes.
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:53.039
I think so too.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:53.199
Yes.
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:53.519
Yeah.
00:44:53.599 --> 00:45:05.519
And it's to your point about being lonely, like there were a lot of those calls where I got my ass chewed out for, you know, not necessarily the Salesforce thing, but for, you know, it was really hard to forecast me and my book of business.
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:06.000
Yes.
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:06.480
You know?
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:08.559
So I was like a corporate nightmare.
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:11.920
But at the end of the quarter, you know, I always pulled it out again.
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.480
I wanted I was going to find a way to be number one.
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:18.400
But all the other days of the quarter, they were like, What are you doing?
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:19.280
You were a mystery.
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:19.599
Yeah.
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:24.000
They were like, we know he's going to pull it out, but at the same time, God, do we hate tracking it?
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:24.559
Yes.
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:25.199
It sucked.
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:35.119
So I was kind of put on an island, and the best managers I've ever had sort of embrace that and be like, Look, you're the most entrepreneurial person we have on the team.
00:45:35.199 --> 00:45:35.599
Yeah.
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:37.679
And we have to hold you to a standard.
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:43.599
We have to make sure you're following the process to a degree, but I believe in you and your ability to get this thing done.
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:44.079
Oh, yeah.
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:46.559
And that was to me like the ultimate compliment.
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:47.119
Yeah.
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:54.320
Or I bet you it was, hey, listen, innocent till proven guilty, until you start messing it up, we'll just keep going with your way.
00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:54.880
100%.
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:57.199
And when you when it doesn't work, then we go back to my way.
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:57.519
Yeah.
00:45:57.760 --> 00:45:58.000
Right.
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.400
I mean, that's probably the same thing I've been told most of my career.
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:00.639
Yeah.
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:07.360
So, I mean, would you lean into that as a leader and almost embrace that to the point about being, you know, authentic and belonging?
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:11.440
I felt like I belonged at the end of a quarter when we had the big all hands meeting.
00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:16.159
And my name was shot out, you know, quarter after quarter for being a top producer.
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:18.719
But all the other days of the year, other than those four days.
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:20.159
You're only as good as your last sales.
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:22.239
I was only as good as my last quarter.
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:32.480
No, I think that is a sacrificial form of belonging, to be honest, because you're probably giving up parts of yourself along the way to that weren't noble potentially.
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.119
So, or you could say that's dissimulated.
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:39.039
So I, you know, these are terms that are now out there, which is great.
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:41.679
Um, but dissimulated means that you have a purpose.
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:44.480
It may not just be the company's purpose, right?
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.599
So you do things your way because of that.
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:50.639
Um, and you don't feel bad about it, which is great, by the way.
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:52.639
Most people think it's a negative form of belonging.
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:53.280
It's not.
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:56.800
As long as you're good with you, yeah, that's real belonging.
00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:59.519
That is, it's when you have to give up a part of yourself for it.
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:06.719
So if you were to change what you did into a way that changed the way you acted as a person or showed up, that's where it's negative.
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.280
When you're sacrificing identity, which doesn't sound like you did.
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:10.079
Yeah.
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:23.519
The the sacrifice I made is that my form of belonging was the proof that I could take my own path, my own path, but my belonging was aligned to a number and performance.
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:30.960
You know, so that was my identity at some of those companies was we don't know what the hell he's doing all the time, but he finds a way to get it done.
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:31.360
Right.
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:36.480
So my belonging was attached to your performance being over quota every quarter.
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:37.599
That's hard.
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.719
That's really hard because that's I'm gonna guess that's not always sustainable.
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:41.440
For sure.
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:41.760
No.
00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:42.079
Yeah.
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:43.360
It feels real good when you're doing it.
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:44.400
It's such an adrenaline rush.
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:46.000
Oh, it's yeah, it's addicting.
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:54.159
And that's that was what was confusing to me when I was in that situation with that manager that I had that really just I was a top performer.
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:59.840
I was accolade central and I just felt so lonely about it.
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:00.559
Truly.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.320
We have a lot of this in common.
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:02.800
Yeah.
00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:11.920
You know, because I feel like again, my sense of belonging at a lot of these twists and turns I've had throughout my career were always aligned with a performance metric.
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:19.920
It was to a degree at times almost a resistance to maybe it's the musician in me, you know, and just thriving in chaos.
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:28.719
I was almost a I was almost resistant to the process because I always felt like I could achieve what I wanted to on a different path.
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:30.559
And I don't know.
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:37.920
I just have a maybe like a lot of disruptor employees do, and this might be a red flag on an interview and why I didn't get some of these jobs.
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:39.199
But I don't know.
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:45.119
I just always felt so entrepreneurial in nature that I just felt like I don't I know I'm going to get it done.
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:49.599
Sometimes I may, you know, skate off of the the canal path, but you know.
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.119
Well, it sounds to me like you felt like you maybe were playing small also.
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:56.800
And when you felt like you were playing small, it was not gonna work for you.
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:58.880
It just wasn't the same.
00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:10.400
Um and I think what I believe I'm hearing is that you started to feel like while I may not belong to something greater than me as far as a company, I can belong to myself.
00:49:10.719 --> 00:49:11.119
100%.
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:12.960
I was just thinking the same exact thing.
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:15.119
Which is which I hope is a good thing, right?
00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:17.679
Yeah, absolutely.
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:19.920
You have to feel good with you at the end of the day.
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:25.199
You know, uh whether you impress a boss isn't really gonna get be what gets it done.
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:30.320
I mean, it may feel good temporarily, but if you're good with yourself, then you're ahead of the game.
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:30.960
You're winning.
00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:31.760
Awesome.
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:32.239
Yeah.
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:35.280
Well, thanks for taking me down that uh that therapy path.
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:41.039
Happy to so three things we always ask everybody that comes on the show, um, bringing it back to Bucks County.
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:47.039
The first thing is if we were to open up your Spotify playlist right now, what song would we see?
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:49.679
Or or what artists are you listening to right now?
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:51.840
Oh my God, what am I not listening to?
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:53.199
Um, you know what?
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:56.559
Honestly, late this week I've been going back to the national.
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:57.599
I'm a big national fan.
00:49:57.840 --> 00:49:58.079
Really?
00:49:58.239 --> 00:49:58.960
Yeah, love it.
00:49:59.199 --> 00:49:59.760
Oh my gosh.
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:01.440
White stripes this week, too.
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:05.119
So like early 2000s, kind of like rock and roll sort of a thing.
00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:09.280
Yeah, national trouble will find me has been on my playlist this whole week.
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:12.719
Um I always like to ask people what their anthem is.
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:14.639
I'm asking you the same thing back on your podcast.
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:16.800
Mine is Seven Nation Army for sure.
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:17.679
That's my anthem.
00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:20.239
Man, that takes me to Penn.
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:23.840
I'm a huge Penn State football fan, and that's one of the songs they play in the crowd.
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:24.159
Really?
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:24.800
Oh my God.
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:25.440
That's my song.
00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:26.880
Yeah, that's my walk-on song.
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:29.199
That is my closer if I was gonna be a baseball player.
00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:29.679
Really?
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:30.639
Oh, hands down.
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:35.599
I write about it a lot in the book, understanding what your anthem is because it really gets you through hard times.
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:38.000
There's usually most people have two anthems.
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:40.000
They have a quitting anthem and the staying anthem.
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:41.199
Oh my gosh.
00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:42.960
So yeah, what do you have an anthem?
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:43.679
I'm sure you do.
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.119
I'm trying to think of it now.
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:56.159
Um, man, there's a I can give you an anthem for me in terms of an album that I go to when I'm in a headspace and I just need to like get myself back.
00:50:56.320 --> 00:51:00.719
There's a um there's a band called The Dangerous Summer that's like an old school emo band.
00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:01.920
Yeah, I've heard of them.
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:06.159
I've become friends with um AJ Perdomo, who's their lead singer and songwriter.
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.159
We've collabed on a bunch of songs together.
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:13.280
But they had an album in 2009, I think it was um Reach for the Sun, it's called.
00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:15.360
But like That's it.
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:20.800
The the I can teleport to anywhere I want to if I'm listening to that album.
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:22.239
Words or melody?
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:26.079
It's it's both for that, which is why I gravitate towards it.
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:28.159
Because I'm like a lyrical snob.
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:36.079
Like I'll go to, you know, from Neil Young to Chris Stapleton to Eric Church to like anything for a good lyric storyteller.
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:36.800
Yes.
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:43.840
Um, but if you know, a lot of times country can be a little, you know, just like anybody else says, like slow and twangy.
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:48.079
I need all of the things coming together at once for me to really be immersed in it.
00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:50.639
It's the science of music is fascinating.
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:51.360
It's crazy.
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:59.199
I have a so I'm always coming in like intensely, and I have a friend who her anthem is The Bones by Maren Morris.
00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:00.000
It couldn't be slower.
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:00.880
It's a great song.
00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:01.840
It it's fantastic.
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:07.440
It's just I'm more scorched earth, and she's more like chill and relax and let me figure this out.
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:08.800
And I'm a Seven Nation Army.
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:10.480
Um I'm so much like you.
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:17.440
Like I need to be in the my brain has to be like processing chaos for me to be comfortable when I'm listening to music.
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:17.679
Absolutely.
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:20.960
So like the Foo Fighters and like big anthem rock is our thing.
00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:22.559
I've seen the Foo Fighters a million times.
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:22.880
Absolutely.
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:23.519
Yeah, probably.
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:24.400
Are you going this year?
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:24.800
No.
00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:27.679
I'm not going this year, but I've seen them probably about seven times.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:27.920
Yeah.
00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:28.639
No kidding.
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:29.119
Yeah.
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:29.679
Love them.
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:30.559
Oh my gosh.
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:31.760
They're um, so it's funny.
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:35.920
We had David Osikonin, the drummer for the Hooters, on uh this show recently.
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:43.599
He um the new drummer for the Foo Fighters is Katie Lon Rubin, who is he I don't even know how to describe him.
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:51.199
He's louder and faster than Dave Grohl and plays harder than he does, but he also sings and writes songs and plays every instrument.
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:54.480
He's a absolute he's dropped from another planet.
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:56.000
Auditioning in front of Dave Grohl.
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:58.239
I've thought about this way more times than a person should.
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:02.079
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I I just can't even imagine that.
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:02.800
Amazing.
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:08.079
So he was the drummer for um Paramo, Angels and Airwaves, and like a lot of Oh wow, okay.
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:12.400
But he produced those albums with like Tom DeLong and a lot of these guys, like played everything.
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:14.079
Oh my god, my mind would be blown.
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:15.519
You have to watch some of the stuff on him.
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:15.920
I will.
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:20.800
But David Osikinen tutored him when he was living in San Diego when he was a young kid.
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:22.239
He was his first drum tutor.
00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:25.920
So we asked him on the show, like, who do you think is the best drummer in the world right now?
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:29.119
And he's like, You're not gonna know who this is yet, but you're about to.
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:30.079
And he didn't tell us why.
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:35.440
And he's like, It's this kid Elon Ruben, and two months later, it's announced he's the drummer for the Foo Fighters.
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:37.119
So I love those stories.
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:39.119
They just feel like so meant to be.
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:40.000
Oh, for sure.
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:40.480
Yeah.
00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:41.360
Um, all right.
00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:50.159
So, second question your favorite meal if you're going out to a restaurant anywhere in Bucks County, like not restaurant, but the actual dish that you're gonna order at that place.
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:51.679
Anyone listening is gonna laugh.
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:55.519
I'm such a I know good restaurants, but I'm not 100% a foodie.
00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:57.280
I just will always have the latest restaurant.
00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:57.599
Yeah.
00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.880
My favorite meal, I'm such a simple girl.
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:03.920
Um, I don't know why this is coming out to me right now.
00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:08.559
Maybe because we're new hope, but I'm thinking of the salt house and those cheeseburgers are so oh, awesome call.
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:08.960
Yeah.
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:10.639
Cheeseburgers at the salt house.
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:11.760
We walk down there all the time.
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:12.400
Oh my God.
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:18.719
It's like honestly, if I was going to be healthier, I'd probably say sushi or like a really good salad, but I'm gonna go with the salt house cheeseburger.
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:19.119
I love it.
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:20.239
Great answer.
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.039
Um, last question before we let you go.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:28.719
Um, what's one thing that only a local would know about Bucks County?
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.519
You grew up here, you live here currently, kids are in school here.
00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:34.880
Oh my goodness, I sound like an advertisement for Bucks every time I talk about this.
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:38.400
I think Bucks County is the most beautiful place to live in the entire country.
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:38.880
Really?
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:39.360
I do.
00:54:39.519 --> 00:54:45.199
I've lived in San Francisco, I've lived, I've lived in so many places around the world, and this is the most serene.
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:55.920
This is the only place I've ever lived where I feel like I could drive down the road and every day without fail feel just honored to be part of it, um, which is belonging.
00:54:56.159 --> 00:55:01.519
And I would I also feel like it's one of the most peaceful places to be through.
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:08.239
Um what I love about it is I feel like I can be my own person and that I have got a million cheerleaders around me, right?
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:12.400
I think that Bucks County is the hype county to Philadelphia.
00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:13.039
I do.
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:17.360
Um, I think we are the best hype men and women that that are out there.
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:21.840
And I think shout out that would probably be what Bucks County should be known most for.
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:22.559
I love it.
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:22.800
Yeah.
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:23.679
It's a great answer.
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:27.039
Yeah, we've had some really uh some interesting answers to that question.
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:28.480
But yeah, I agree.
00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:33.199
I mean, we've traveled all over the world playing music, or not the world, but the country at least playing music.
00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:36.559
And you know, each place has kind of its charm and its thing.
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:44.239
Yeah, to your point about San Francisco, it's beautiful there, Nashville's beautiful, you know, beautiful, the south is beautiful, the people are amazing.
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:46.719
But every time we come home, it's like, oh, right.
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:48.239
That's why we stayed here.
00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:49.440
It's serene here.
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:52.400
I mean, yeah, you get farmland.
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:54.079
You feel like you're connected to something.
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:58.480
And at the same time, there are places that you can go and be part of something when you want to be.
00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:00.639
It doesn't feel like it's performative.
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:05.199
It feels like it is at your speed anywhere you are at in the journey, truly.
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:05.920
Awesome.
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:06.159
Yeah.
00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:07.679
Well, thank you so much for being on.
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:11.679
So, where can people buy braving the workplace in your book and following with your content?
00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:17.519
Um, so buying the book, Amazon, Barnes Noble, Target, anywhere you buy your books now, you can buy it.
00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:22.639
Um, and I can be interacted with on Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook or TikTok and just about anywhere.
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:23.840
What's your handle on Instagram?
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:24.639
Just so Dr.
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:25.199
Beth Kaplan.
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:25.760
Awesome.
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:26.079
Yeah.
00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:26.480
Dr.
00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:28.079
Beth Kaplan, it was awesome having you.
00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:28.800
Thank you so much.
00:56:29.039 --> 00:56:32.800
And thanks for taking me through a little bit of uh personal development therapy myself.
00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:33.519
Got it.
00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:34.000
Absolutely.
00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:34.480
Awesome.
00:56:34.639 --> 00:56:36.880
That's a wrap for Backstage Bucks County with Dr.
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:37.599
Beth Kaplan.
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:38.880
See you next time.