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Customers have come to expect a lot of transparency, but you know what? On the wholesale of things, way archaic. You know? You go to the auctions, one dealer stiffed another dealer.
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The same vehicle's ran through the auction five times. Uh, five different buyers, same problem. Selling it green light still, and nobody knows about it.
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[upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. Do you guys know who lives right near me? If you say Alec Baldwin- I was gonna say that. Does it- Is it? What? Don't you even say that. No. He totally lives in Syracuse, in Cazenovia.
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Yeah, where Brian on our team lives, actually. Cazenovia. Really? Cazenovia. That sounds like a place where al- where Alec Baldwin would live. It's, it- Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross? It i- Yes, yes.
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Yes, Coffee's, Coffee- Oh, well look, the car business relationship... Coffee's for Closers. Glenn Goodman. Yes. He lives- Oh... he lives in this little town that's like Mayberry.
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It's like kids still ride their bikes around. Wow. And, like, you find out where the other kids are, 'cause all the bikes are on that lawn. Yeah. No kidding. We gotta knock on this dude's door.
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You would know Alec Baldwin. Who knew?
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Yeah, every once in a while he'll show up at a local restaurant or, like, something'll happen or he'll be, like, you know, doing the walk of shame down Cazenovia Street at, like, you know, 5:00 AM. [laughs] Wow.
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He's like, "And this is the one, uh, this is the one celebrity we have in Syracuse, poor Alec Baldwin." [laughs] Dude, Post- [laughs] Bro, Post Malone started here in- Really? Oh, yeah. Man. Yeah. And they left.
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We got things going on, bro. I mean, not as many as Philly. And Nashville. Not as many as Philly. Not as many as Philly. That's true. Yes, that's true. You can claim Philly pretty hard. That's true.
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I sure can claim, but by the way- Well-... there's a documentary about Rocky making Rocky, Sylvester Stallone making Rocky, coming out. It's gonna be- Yeah, how meta... gonna be the best movie ever. I'm just saying that.
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Wow. There's a movie about a dude playing a dude who wrote a movie about himself being a dude. Bro, he sold his dog because he didn't have enough money, and then when he got the script bought, he bought his dog back.
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Let's go. Okay. Oh, that's so much fun. Okay. Yeah, it's a true story. None of that has anything to do with Travis Baldwin except for the name is very, very similar. Well, I don't know. There could be a relation.
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Maybe there's a relation. There should probably be somewhere back in there. There could be a relation, but Trav- Travis is the first, I think he's the first independent dealer we've ever had on this show. Nope. Okay.
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I think we've had Joel Bassam on the show. Oh, and Alex Lawrence. And Alex Lawrence. Okay. What do I know? You know, it was close though. I think he's the third independent dealer we've had on the show. Whoa.
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Third time's the charm. Three. Those other two guys, wow, what a terrible interview, those other two guys.
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[laughs] No, but Travis came to light because we learned about him because he was covered, I think, maybe in auto remarketing. Um- Yeah... but he built his own tech and software solution for- That's cool...
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to give back to the industry to solve a problem that he had. And so, uh, that's the thing that piqued our interest. So we hope you enjoy this conversation with Travis Baldwin.
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[upbeat music] Hey, Travis, so great to have you on the show today. Thanks for joining us on Auto Collabs. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks a lot for having me, Paul. Appreciate it.
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Y- I always love it when, like, the relationship with a person starts because you did something great, and we picked up on it- [laughs]... and we covered it on one of our shows. Yeah.
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And then we're able to have you to talk about it a little deeper. So, uh, we love it when dealers develop tech to solve their own problems. So, uh, you've done that. Yeah.
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But before we get into that, which I wanna get into, tell us the, the, the... We love to answer, ask the question, how did you get into the auto industry? Auto industry.
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So, uh, my father got into the industry, uh, back in the day.
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He was selling, uh, old business equipment, and, uh, one of his, uh, trainees from back in the day, uh, invited him to come work for a dealership that he started, because he's learned a lot from him in sales.
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So anyway, keep a long story short- [laughs]... I joined along when I was about 13 years old. What? Started busting out details in cars and kind of worked my way through the ranks, and here I am. It's my love language.
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That's right. Yes. 13 years old detailing. Let's go. Right. It's where you gotta start. What's been your favorite position at the dealership? Like, if, if, if- My favorite position.
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You- If you weren't doing what you're doing today, what would you go back to? Man, you know what? Probably detailing cars. I love- Really? Yeah. My guy. [laughs] Yeah. I'm the same way. All things being equal, right?
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Like- Right... having to provide for my family and all that, [laughs] right, like, I would spend all day smelling detail chemicals and making stuff look good- [laughs] Right...
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and hear the drone of the buffers and the vacuums and moving stuff in and out. I, I... Why do you love it? I know why I love it. Absolutely. Right. Why do you love it? Why detailing? Why detailing?
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Oh, man, you get to work with your hands. I just I like tinkering with things and, you know, making something that doesn't look so great sometimes look new again.
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So, you know, that's kind of a, the independent dealer in me, the used car guy, right? Making, uh, something that's not so shiny. You can see the thing that you've started. What's that?
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You can see the thing in one state, which is not good, and then within a few hours you see it again and it looks good. It's total opposite- Absolutely. Super rewarding...
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it's the opposite of what we do as entrepreneurs and, like, building, right? It's just like this never-ending infinite game that we play. Absolutely.
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Um, okay, so you've done that, and then you saw that in the store and you're like, "Ah, actually there's a problem I need to fix." Yeah. Would you tell us that story? Yeah.
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Yeah, so I would love to say I did it all on my own. So Dealer Defender, I got a team of guys, really great guys that I've met throughout my involvement with the state association.
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I'm the president of the Indiana Independent Auto Dealer Association. So I've- Oh, nice... been able to meet and collaborate with a lot of great people through there.
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Um, met some guys that own a marketing and software company, uh, here in town. It's called Noop Media. Uh, super great guys.
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Told them about my vision of Dealer Defender, and how we have this big pain point in the industry that I think needs solved, and we kind of went to town and collaborated and, uh, got to work, so. Okay. Nice. Well- Great.
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Great... first of all, I, I love, like, the fact that, uh, I think a lot of people don't think about, like, dealer associations as a place for innovation- Right... to kind of start. Yeah, that's fair.
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You know, like, it's, it's like that's an, that's an organization that keeps us all on track. But for, for it to be like, "All right, we got together as, like, a crew-" Mm-hmm... and it was like, "This is a problem."
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Oh, yeah. Um, and, and so, so then connecting dots with, like, all right- The, the dealer association, me having this c- conversation, problem created.
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Now I've got, now I've got a tech partner that I can, I can build with. Right.
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What, what were some of the things, like, initially that you didn't see coming, that kinda like hit you out of left field when it started, when you started to develop a product or software- Yeah...
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that was more than just, like, a thing that you could tinker with on the weekend- Oh, the time... since you're a tinkerer. I would say the time involvement. I mean- Mm...
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we've been working on this sucker for two and a half years to get it perfected, you know, going back and forth, looking at the first rendition of this. Like, dude, what is... Nah, this ain't it, [laughs] you know?
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And, uh- Yeah... moving on from there. So, I mean, I think we're probably on rendition number 20 right now- Yes... over the past two and a half years. So- Perfect... uh, we've got it to a beautiful place.
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And, uh, finally, you know, I was out in Colorado at the National Independent Auto Dealers Association thinking, "You know what? This is the time, boys.
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Let's go ahead and introduce this to the world and kinda let them know what we're doing," so. Well, talk about... Talk- You didn't, haven't yet said what it does or- Yeah. Right...
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you know, you just said there was a problem. You were feeling- Yep... the pain. So explain- Yeah... the problem to us- The biggest-... and then how this fixes it. Yeah.
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I'd say one of the biggest pain points in our industry is arbitration and transparency in the wholesale market.
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So, you know, through the years in the retail side of things, we've seen, you know, consumers know how many days we've had a vehicle on the lot, how many price changes it's had, what its vehicle history report is.
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So there's been a lot of transparency, and customers have come to expect a lot of transparency. But you know what? On the wholesale things, way archaic. You know, you go to the auction, one dealer stiffed another dealer.
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The same vehicle's ran through the auction five times, uh, five different buyers, same problem, selling it green light still, and nobody knows about it.
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So, you know, taking that idea with, like y- you said, Kyle, uh, the collaboration with associations, you know, just being involved and collaborating with other dealers.
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So we just said, "Hey, we're crowdsourcing this information." So we thought, "We don't really need the auctions or remarketing companies to be involved. Let's start the process from our Dealer Defender platform."
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So the dealer just comes on here, enters all the information, uh, about the arbitration claim, and to the auction, that looks like just s- read- reading an email like they generally would when you submit an arbitration claim.
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To us, it breaks it down in, like, a text format, almost like you're texting your buddy back and forth on the phone.
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Uh, so we're removing all that metadata that comes through in an email and just making it look like we're just having a general text.
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That way, our team at the dealership can collaborate on what's going on with that arbitration claim at any time. So it keeps everybody involved.
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And at the end of the day, I'll add, if that sucker goes back to the auction and it's arbitrated, then certainly every other dealer that subscribes to Dealer Defender is going to know about it.
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Yeah, I think that that's the big deal, is the, um...
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Most of the time, these, these arbitration things, and when you get into, like, what's going on with an actual vehicle, is, is very isolated to the dealer that's interacting with the, with the wholesaler or the auction.
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And so to have that more global... It's like, it's like the CARFAX for, for- Right... the arbitration network. Sellers. Right? Right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Selling the vehicles. It's like that seller's network.
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What percentage of, of vehicles that you, uh, especially at, uh, at, at your store, are, like, acquiring in this manner? And, like, do you... Uh, what, what percentage? Like, give me some, like, averages.
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Maybe you know the data of- Yeah... you know, how much dealers are, are buying and then how much actually goes into arbitration. Yeah. It's hard to know the de- you know, the percentage a- across the industry.
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Uh, at our dealership, we're about 10% of our vehicles, right, end up into arbitration. So for us- Wow... that's, you know, 350 to 400 cars a year are ending up in arbitration.
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But what, you know, the pain point became is, like, seeing that vehicle back at the auction running green light again, and that just put a bad taste in my mouth of, like, "Hey- Mm... something's gotta be done with this."
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[laughs] Is there something- Yeah. So you say- How do the auctions feel about it? [laughs] Well, I, yeah. Yeah, I've, you know what? They love it. Yeah, right.
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[laughs] I've had some good conversations actually with auctions, uh, and different remarketers.
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Uh, and I think at the end of the day, it's a pain point for them, too, you know, because i- it becomes a best effort process. I mean, you gotta think about the hundreds of thousands, millions- Mm...
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of cars that are running through- Yeah, yeah... various auctions. It's like they have a ton on their plate, and they're trying to do the best they can, I think.
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And, you know, uh, to their disadvantage, there's some bad actors out there that don't care and maybe auction hop and are trying to offload this bad vehicle on another dealer.
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So I, I don't, uh, fault auctions totally at all. Uh, I think that there's some good ones out there, and I think that it just has become a best effort process.
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So, you know, let's all collaborate, make the industry transparent. And if we can do that, we can all own our own problems. Like, to what demise, I guess, do we have? You know, to own your own- Yeah...
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instead of pass it off on somebody else, really it's kind of a break even, right? You know, the, the, the auctions don't love it either because any time...
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Do- not don't love Dealer Defender, don't love what happens when a vehicle's misrepresented and when it's running through the lane, and then it has to enter arbitration, and then...
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Like, everyone's having a bad experience- Right... in that situation. Yeah. Right. The buyer's- The bad cops... having a bad experience. Yep. The seller's having a bad experience.
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The auction's having a bad experience, [laughs] right? Yeah. And, and you do f- feel like starting to put the pressure where it is due on the seller to properly represent the vehicle and to, to not try to move it around.
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When you start to put the pressure on that, the, the natural result is they're going to have fewer and fewer places to hide when the, that is the intention. Look, everything- Yep...
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everybody can have a car that goes bad and r- people that try to do their best But really starting to weed that out. Like, those cars will find somewhere else to go, and people can decide where they wanna buy.
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So, um, I think any, any area of any business that technology touches, right, this information, you know, parity happens where all of a sudden like, oh, I know the same thing that they know, the same thing that they know, right?
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That's why pricing transparency has become a thing, and now condition transparency at the auction. Sounds like this is a great first step. Is there any other product on the market at all that does anything like this?
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No, not... No, not that I've seen at all. And I'll, I'll add, you know, the, the conversations that I've had with some of these, uh, remarketers, we are in conversations of bringing them on board.
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So it's almost gonna be like, "Hey, who's first? Who's gonna raise their hand and say, 'Hey, we believe in transparency.'" Yeah.
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"We're giving this data to Dealer Defender because we wanna make sure that our buyers know that they can trust where they're buying their vehicle." Mm. You know, and that- Well-...
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the credibility of that auction, you feel like would go, like, significantly up. Absolutely up. And then when you have bu- and you have buyers that trust an auction, right?
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Like, where the sellers naturally wanna go, like, where the buyers are at. Right. The ecosystem really does kind of like do its thing. Kyle, you were gonna say something.
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Well, I think that the end con- you know, I, I'm, I'm going all the way to the end consumer, right? For, for those times where maybe a, a...
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what should run, uh, what should have run red ran green, and all of a sudden the dealer missed something, right?
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That, that someone else caught, and now the end user is dealing with a problem that, that wasn't, that, that shouldn't have been theirs to deal with. Mm. And I think this also gets that out, right? Because- Absolutely...
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hey, look, some, some, these, these cars still get bought and sold.
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Like, red cars run all day and get bought and sold, and people are very aware of what they are buying as an end user, as someone that's trying to put that car on the road.
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Um, maybe it's a cost or, or, or, or, or they're, they're willing to fix that thing up. Mm-hmm. Right? But, but, like, we need to, they, they... people need to know that. Mm-hmm. No, absolutely.
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I'm so- All the way down to the end consumer. No, I'm so glad that you brought that up, too, because that's a lot of the discussion that we've had internally.
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Um, you know, again, through my connection with the state associations, lobbying and going to the state house is one of the big things we do.
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And, you know, nothing worries an attorney general more than when it affects their constituents. So- Yep... and I feel like you brought up that great point.
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Like, hey, if we're continually passing a buck off to dealer to dealer, we're actually inflating the market price of vehicles, one. Mm-hmm.
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Two, maybe we're not catching something at the dealership, and we're passing that off to a customer. So super happy you brought that up. It's a good point. Well, uh, man, now, yeah, 'cause you said...
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Like, all of these places where we don't create efficiencies for data that's already exists creates people problems on top of, on, on top of this.
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So when you say, like, artificially inflating the market, you take that all the way down to like, well, the auction wouldn't need to have as high of fees if the arbitration levels weren't so high and needing to staff up to support those arbitration methods- Mm-hmm...
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and have, have the volume of, you know, people or technicians to handle some of these things. We...
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I, I think we do this in, like, so many regards in our industry, actually, where we, where we artificially inflate the price of vehicles- Mm-hmm...
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due to downstream costs that can be, uh, lessened with the right technology- Right... in place. Yep. Right. 100%. Yep. You know- Yeah...
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we don't, we don't get to talk to a lot of independents just throughout our shows- Mm... and, you know, we've been more and more growing relationships with trade associations across, across the country. And from,
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as the representative for the independents, what are the things that you're specifically speaking with legislators?
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What are the issues that are coming up when you're going and you're trying to lobby or you're trying to help fix problems? What are some of those problems? I'm very curious. Yeah.
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So I mean, one of the biggest ones here in Indiana that we've been lobbying for is extended inter- interim plates. Uh, the problem becomes- Mm...
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that you have state regulations and laws conflicting with each other when it comes to title processes and title work. You know, maybe Illinois, you don't have to deliver a, a, a title for 90 days. Indiana, it's 30 days.
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So now we're receiving... We purchased the vehicle from an Illinois dealer. In 90 days, they feel like they're doing the right thing. We're a 30-day state, so there we have a problem. Now we have a mad customer- Mm...
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with a temp tag that's only good for 45 days, and we're trying to just take care of the customer, and the customer's not [laughs] happy because they can't go register their vehicle. Golly.
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So, I mean- Oh, I've been there... you know, that, that's one of them. I've so been there. It's so hard. [laughs] Right. Uh, yeah, so that's a big one. Um, let me see. I don't... Nothing on...
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Nothing else is coming off right on top of the dome, but if it does, I'll get back with you. Well, I think, uh, I mean, a- as, as the world kind of continues to flatten, right?
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And even states continue to flatten, and more deliveries are done inside or outside of state, whether that be on the wholesale side of the business, right?
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You're buying a car from another state, need that title in order to get the tag, or on the retail side of the business where you're dealing with cross-state titling, um, and getting d- getting documentation to, to the right states.
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I think, you know, this, the, the, the beauty of, uh, interstate commerce is the fact that states have, uh, some guidelines that, that the feds don't have to in a country as big as ours. Mm-hmm.
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But as, as the country becomes more flat in its economic, uh, ca- capabilities because of people willing to drive or get things delivered- Mm-hmm...
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it definitely presents a challenge, especially for a smaller dealer, right? Right. Absolutely it is. Um, uh, like, that, that, that, that has to be one of the things that's on your mind. Uh, uh, is this...
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Are you starting to, to dream on like, "Oh, my goodness, we've built this. Like, what else can I build?" Yeah. That's the question. Uh, you know what? You know, I'm, I'm already... I'm an entrepreneur at heart.
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[laughs] So I'm always- Perfect... thinking about how can we make it better. So we've got, you know, five other products that are, can feed into Dealer Defender to make this better for dealers as well. That sounds right.
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So- That tracks. That's an entrepreneur. Just, just keep going. I always need five more things- I do. [laughs]... that I don't have time for- Right. [laughs]... right, that I'm gonna try to build- Yeah.
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[laughs] We'll make it happen... and I'm gonna try to do today. Um- Yeah... te- let's ask this question. It's a little bit off topic, but I think very tangential. Um, I'm sorry.
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It's like parallel lane Can you tell us what your personal use of AI tools is? I'm always so curious, because- Yeah...
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you know, like, entrepreneurs seem to gravitate toward it because it empowers these five other ideas that you have every morning when you wake up. Yeah. So what, what, what do you typically deploy?
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What do you use in your regular life? Yeah. So personally- Uh, just to kind of dive in. Yeah. Yeah. Like OpenAI. So I'm a big, uh, ChatGPT user.
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Uh, so I j- I just think when, you know, you're working from ideation and developing that, uh, it's a good tool for that. Uh, at the store level, we use it for generic things like descri- description writing.
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Uh, but you know what? AI's only as good as the person that's directing it, right?
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So, you know, I, I think, uh, you know, the, for the team, uh, when we're doing descriptions, let's say, like, "Hey, guys, it's super important to add the very specific details about what is important about this vehicle.
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You know, did we do brakes? Does it have new tires?" Yes. Uh, "Does it have a common issue oil filter housing on a BMW that, you know, this sucker needs replaced," you know? So it's things like that that are common.
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Like, let's add to the story a little bit so we just don't get some generic, uh, AI generated, spit out response.
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You know, I think this, this makes a very, uh, solid point, and it's that the most accessible uses of AI tools are often the most deployable now. Uh-huh.
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'Cause it's easy to start getting tactical and talk about connecting things and this and that, but the reality is there is so much low-hanging fruit- Mm-hmm...
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just getting your team to deploy with proper eti- you know, proper AI etiquette- Right...
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on a regular basis, that really helps you do a lot more and, and get a lot more out of the people that, you know, were doing the thing before. But it ends up serving the customer well, it ends up serving your team well.
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Give us a little purview on, on your, your dealership. We talked a lot about your tech, but- Yeah... talk a little about the store. What's it called? Yeah. How can we- Yeah... how can we check it out? So, yeah.
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We're called Best Deal Auto Sales. We've got, uh, six locations up in northern Indiana. Uh, we have four service centers. We have a body shop. We employ about 90 people. Nice.
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Uh, we've got about a rotation of 700 vehicles at any time. Uh, started in 1999. Good night. Uh, have a ton of friends that have joined the business with us that we've known from elementary school and high school.
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Uh, I've got three older brothers. We're all involved in the business in some capacity. Uh, so it's really a family and friend affair. And, uh- Love that... we ha- we have a great team. Super grateful. That's awesome.
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And, and- Man, I, and I love hearing a independent with four service centers. Let's go. Are they attached, or are they, or are they, like, just customer-centric service? Oh, no. So they're... Yeah.
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We use it for internal, and we service our customers' vehicles at, uh- So cool... only 90 bucks an hour. I mean, we're super low rate. Woo. Yo. Uh, so. Come on.
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[laughs] Do you know To- do you know Todd Caputo by any chance? [laughs] I don't. He was the used car king. No, it kind of sounds familiar, but I don't. Oh, my gosh. Uh, yeah. We need to connect you with Todd Caputo.
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Okay. He built a great independent, independent brand. Nice. Oh, man. Well, good night. Undercutting the market. That's a... I mean, 90 bucks an hour, like that's- Yeah... that's some efficiency built in right there.
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Yeah, we do. And you can- Yeah, we have- I think you can do that when you don't have the overhead of like, you know, potentially a franchise store or something like that. Yeah.
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We have, uh, we have great techs that we've scalped from franchise stores, so we've been lucky to have some really amazing techs here, and, uh- Why do they...... we're efficient. Let me ask you this, this...
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'Cause I think this will serve the whole audience. Why do techs come work for you? Uh, because my... We have an open door policy. You got a problem, come see me directly.
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Uh, you know, this comes down from the top down, my dad, who's the CEO of the company. You can hop in. You get his cell phone number. You can go to his house and have a chat, [laughs] you know?
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Having that open door and really caring about the guys, and taking care of them, too. I mean, pay 'em really, really well. Uh- Yeah... the last shop that we just built, you know, we air conditioned.
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So, you know, it's just catering to the needs. That'll do it. Uh, taking care of people, man. That's it. Just take care of people. Ah. So. Look, I love it. I, I knew...
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I, I had a, I had a strange suspicion you were gonna bring it around to that. Yeah. I was like- Yes... "This cat, he's not just building tech. He's caring for people all the way across-" Right... "the ecosystem."
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[laughs] Travis, I'm so glad that you joined us. I'm glad we found this story and then were able to bring you in, talk about what you're doing.
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Kudos to building, uh, something, uh, from the ground up out of the dealership that's serving the entire industry, and wish you the best. Thanks for joining us on Auto Collabs. Yeah. Thank you so much, guys.
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[upbeat music] Okay. So a lot of people when they build stuff, especially in auto, it, like, solves just a personal pain point right off the bat.
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But the fact that this was a group think of independent dealers in his area- Yeah... with the, with the dealer association, and he was like, "You know what? I'll shoulder that. Let's go," you know?
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And so he put his time, his resources, his thought, you know, into building something that works for everyone. Yeah, there's a revenue opportunity. There's a goal. He wants to get in dealers.
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But the bigger thing is, is this is built for the people that need it, that said they need it. This is, like, for me, the, the, the day and age we live in, technology's moving so fast, ideas are flowing at us so fast.
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I was reading an article from, like, 20 years ago in which the, the person writing it suggests that back then they were already receiving more information in a day than you could digest in your entire lifetime.
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And a lot of people- 20 years ago. Yeah. [laughs] A lot of people use that as an excuse, that they're like, "Man, there's no new ideas now. Everybody's thought of everything."
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And then here comes, from the great auto industry- Woo. Let's go...
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someone that's like, "Yeah, and here's a real operational issue that does not have a good enough solution to it, and beep" And I love these stories like this. The end, the end of the URL is in.ai Whoa. Wow. Really?
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Go figure that. If you could sell without the.ai URL- [laughs]... you know you really got something.
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I was most enamored by the fact when he said, "I hire people and scalp them from franchise dealerships to come work in my dealership by offering them flexibility, by offering them air condition shops," like perks. Wow.
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Um, and he also mentioned something that I once thought was just a benefit of franchise shops, which is all the training you need to do.
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He was like, "Actually, a lot of people don't like the fact that they have to do all this mandatory stuff," 'cause it, it takes their time and they're not earning while they're doing it.
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So a little bit of a counterpoint. And, uh, just, I think anybody that raises the bar and shows us a way that, um, you know, what people are looking for allows us as a franchise industry to grow as well.
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So, uh, either way, great conversation. Third independent- Yeah... is a winner. We gotta have more of these. Absolutely. On behalf of Kyle- Hey. What? What? Hit, hit him. Hit him. Go with it.
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Oh, I was gonna say- I was gonna go with it. I was gonna pick it up... on behalf of Kyle Mountsier, Michael Cirillo, and myself, thank you as always for listening to Auto Collabs. [upbeat music]
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Customers have come to expect a lot of transparency, but you know what? On the wholesale of things, way archaic. You know? You go to the auctions, one dealer stiffed another dealer.
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The same vehicle's ran through the auction five times. Uh, five different buyers, same problem. Selling it green light still, and nobody knows about it.
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[upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. Do you guys know who lives right near me? If you say Alec Baldwin- I was gonna say that. Does it- Is it? What? Don't you even say that. No. He totally lives in Syracuse, in Cazenovia.
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Yeah, where Brian on our team lives, actually. Cazenovia. Really? Cazenovia. That sounds like a place where al- where Alec Baldwin would live. It's, it- Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross? It i- Yes, yes.
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Yes, Coffee's, Coffee- Oh, well look, the car business relationship... Coffee's for Closers. Glenn Goodman. Yes. He lives- Oh... he lives in this little town that's like Mayberry.
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It's like kids still ride their bikes around. Wow. And, like, you find out where the other kids are, 'cause all the bikes are on that lawn. Yeah. No kidding. We gotta knock on this dude's door.
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You would know Alec Baldwin. Who knew?
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Yeah, every once in a while he'll show up at a local restaurant or, like, something'll happen or he'll be, like, you know, doing the walk of shame down Cazenovia Street at, like, you know, 5:00 AM. [laughs] Wow.
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He's like, "And this is the one, uh, this is the one celebrity we have in Syracuse, poor Alec Baldwin." [laughs] Dude, Post- [laughs] Bro, Post Malone started here in- Really? Oh, yeah. Man. Yeah. And they left.
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We got things going on, bro. I mean, not as many as Philly. And Nashville. Not as many as Philly. Not as many as Philly. That's true. Yes, that's true. You can claim Philly pretty hard. That's true.
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I sure can claim, but by the way- Well-... there's a documentary about Rocky making Rocky, Sylvester Stallone making Rocky, coming out. It's gonna be- Yeah, how meta... gonna be the best movie ever. I'm just saying that.
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Wow. There's a movie about a dude playing a dude who wrote a movie about himself being a dude. Bro, he sold his dog because he didn't have enough money, and then when he got the script bought, he bought his dog back.
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Let's go. Okay. Oh, that's so much fun. Okay. Yeah, it's a true story. None of that has anything to do with Travis Baldwin except for the name is very, very similar. Well, I don't know. There could be a relation.
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Maybe there's a relation. There should probably be somewhere back in there. There could be a relation, but Trav- Travis is the first, I think he's the first independent dealer we've ever had on this show. Nope. Okay.
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I think we've had Joel Bassam on the show. Oh, and Alex Lawrence. And Alex Lawrence. Okay. What do I know? You know, it was close though. I think he's the third independent dealer we've had on the show. Whoa.
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Third time's the charm. Three. Those other two guys, wow, what a terrible interview, those other two guys.
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[laughs] No, but Travis came to light because we learned about him because he was covered, I think, maybe in auto remarketing. Um- Yeah... but he built his own tech and software solution for- That's cool...
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to give back to the industry to solve a problem that he had. And so, uh, that's the thing that piqued our interest. So we hope you enjoy this conversation with Travis Baldwin.
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[upbeat music] Hey, Travis, so great to have you on the show today. Thanks for joining us on Auto Collabs. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks a lot for having me, Paul. Appreciate it.
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Y- I always love it when, like, the relationship with a person starts because you did something great, and we picked up on it- [laughs]... and we covered it on one of our shows. Yeah.
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And then we're able to have you to talk about it a little deeper. So, uh, we love it when dealers develop tech to solve their own problems. So, uh, you've done that. Yeah.
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But before we get into that, which I wanna get into, tell us the, the, the... We love to answer, ask the question, how did you get into the auto industry? Auto industry.
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So, uh, my father got into the industry, uh, back in the day.
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He was selling, uh, old business equipment, and, uh, one of his, uh, trainees from back in the day, uh, invited him to come work for a dealership that he started, because he's learned a lot from him in sales.
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So anyway, keep a long story short- [laughs]... I joined along when I was about 13 years old. What? Started busting out details in cars and kind of worked my way through the ranks, and here I am. It's my love language.
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That's right. Yes. 13 years old detailing. Let's go. Right. It's where you gotta start. What's been your favorite position at the dealership? Like, if, if, if- My favorite position.
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You- If you weren't doing what you're doing today, what would you go back to? Man, you know what? Probably detailing cars. I love- Really? Yeah. My guy. [laughs] Yeah. I'm the same way. All things being equal, right?
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Like- Right... having to provide for my family and all that, [laughs] right, like, I would spend all day smelling detail chemicals and making stuff look good- [laughs] Right...
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and hear the drone of the buffers and the vacuums and moving stuff in and out. I, I... Why do you love it? I know why I love it. Absolutely. Right. Why do you love it? Why detailing? Why detailing?
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Oh, man, you get to work with your hands. I just I like tinkering with things and, you know, making something that doesn't look so great sometimes look new again.
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So, you know, that's kind of a, the independent dealer in me, the used car guy, right? Making, uh, something that's not so shiny. You can see the thing that you've started. What's that?
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You can see the thing in one state, which is not good, and then within a few hours you see it again and it looks good. It's total opposite- Absolutely. Super rewarding...
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it's the opposite of what we do as entrepreneurs and, like, building, right? It's just like this never-ending infinite game that we play. Absolutely.
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Um, okay, so you've done that, and then you saw that in the store and you're like, "Ah, actually there's a problem I need to fix." Yeah. Would you tell us that story? Yeah.
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Yeah, so I would love to say I did it all on my own. So Dealer Defender, I got a team of guys, really great guys that I've met throughout my involvement with the state association.
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I'm the president of the Indiana Independent Auto Dealer Association. So I've- Oh, nice... been able to meet and collaborate with a lot of great people through there.
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Um, met some guys that own a marketing and software company, uh, here in town. It's called Noop Media. Uh, super great guys.
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Told them about my vision of Dealer Defender, and how we have this big pain point in the industry that I think needs solved, and we kind of went to town and collaborated and, uh, got to work, so. Okay. Nice. Well- Great.
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Great... first of all, I, I love, like, the fact that, uh, I think a lot of people don't think about, like, dealer associations as a place for innovation- Right... to kind of start. Yeah, that's fair.
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You know, like, it's, it's like that's an, that's an organization that keeps us all on track. But for, for it to be like, "All right, we got together as, like, a crew-" Mm-hmm... and it was like, "This is a problem."
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Oh, yeah. Um, and, and so, so then connecting dots with, like, all right- The, the dealer association, me having this c- conversation, problem created.
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Now I've got, now I've got a tech partner that I can, I can build with. Right.
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What, what were some of the things, like, initially that you didn't see coming, that kinda like hit you out of left field when it started, when you started to develop a product or software- Yeah...
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that was more than just, like, a thing that you could tinker with on the weekend- Oh, the time... since you're a tinkerer. I would say the time involvement. I mean- Mm...
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we've been working on this sucker for two and a half years to get it perfected, you know, going back and forth, looking at the first rendition of this. Like, dude, what is... Nah, this ain't it, [laughs] you know?
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And, uh- Yeah... moving on from there. So, I mean, I think we're probably on rendition number 20 right now- Yes... over the past two and a half years. So- Perfect... uh, we've got it to a beautiful place.
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And, uh, finally, you know, I was out in Colorado at the National Independent Auto Dealers Association thinking, "You know what? This is the time, boys.
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Let's go ahead and introduce this to the world and kinda let them know what we're doing," so. Well, talk about... Talk- You didn't, haven't yet said what it does or- Yeah. Right...
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you know, you just said there was a problem. You were feeling- Yep... the pain. So explain- Yeah... the problem to us- The biggest-... and then how this fixes it. Yeah.
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I'd say one of the biggest pain points in our industry is arbitration and transparency in the wholesale market.
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So, you know, through the years in the retail side of things, we've seen, you know, consumers know how many days we've had a vehicle on the lot, how many price changes it's had, what its vehicle history report is.
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So there's been a lot of transparency, and customers have come to expect a lot of transparency. But you know what? On the wholesale things, way archaic. You know, you go to the auction, one dealer stiffed another dealer.
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The same vehicle's ran through the auction five times, uh, five different buyers, same problem, selling it green light still, and nobody knows about it.
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So, you know, taking that idea with, like y- you said, Kyle, uh, the collaboration with associations, you know, just being involved and collaborating with other dealers.
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So we just said, "Hey, we're crowdsourcing this information." So we thought, "We don't really need the auctions or remarketing companies to be involved. Let's start the process from our Dealer Defender platform."
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So the dealer just comes on here, enters all the information, uh, about the arbitration claim, and to the auction, that looks like just s- read- reading an email like they generally would when you submit an arbitration claim.
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To us, it breaks it down in, like, a text format, almost like you're texting your buddy back and forth on the phone.
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Uh, so we're removing all that metadata that comes through in an email and just making it look like we're just having a general text.
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That way, our team at the dealership can collaborate on what's going on with that arbitration claim at any time. So it keeps everybody involved.
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And at the end of the day, I'll add, if that sucker goes back to the auction and it's arbitrated, then certainly every other dealer that subscribes to Dealer Defender is going to know about it.
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Yeah, I think that that's the big deal, is the, um...
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Most of the time, these, these arbitration things, and when you get into, like, what's going on with an actual vehicle, is, is very isolated to the dealer that's interacting with the, with the wholesaler or the auction.
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And so to have that more global... It's like, it's like the CARFAX for, for- Right... the arbitration network. Sellers. Right? Right, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Selling the vehicles. It's like that seller's network.
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What percentage of, of vehicles that you, uh, especially at, uh, at, at your store, are, like, acquiring in this manner? And, like, do you... Uh, what, what percentage? Like, give me some, like, averages.
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Maybe you know the data of- Yeah... you know, how much dealers are, are buying and then how much actually goes into arbitration. Yeah. It's hard to know the de- you know, the percentage a- across the industry.
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Uh, at our dealership, we're about 10% of our vehicles, right, end up into arbitration. So for us- Wow... that's, you know, 350 to 400 cars a year are ending up in arbitration.
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But what, you know, the pain point became is, like, seeing that vehicle back at the auction running green light again, and that just put a bad taste in my mouth of, like, "Hey- Mm... something's gotta be done with this."
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[laughs] Is there something- Yeah. So you say- How do the auctions feel about it? [laughs] Well, I, yeah. Yeah, I've, you know what? They love it. Yeah, right.
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[laughs] I've had some good conversations actually with auctions, uh, and different remarketers.
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Uh, and I think at the end of the day, it's a pain point for them, too, you know, because i- it becomes a best effort process. I mean, you gotta think about the hundreds of thousands, millions- Mm...
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of cars that are running through- Yeah, yeah... various auctions. It's like they have a ton on their plate, and they're trying to do the best they can, I think.
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And, you know, uh, to their disadvantage, there's some bad actors out there that don't care and maybe auction hop and are trying to offload this bad vehicle on another dealer.
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So I, I don't, uh, fault auctions totally at all. Uh, I think that there's some good ones out there, and I think that it just has become a best effort process.
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So, you know, let's all collaborate, make the industry transparent. And if we can do that, we can all own our own problems. Like, to what demise, I guess, do we have? You know, to own your own- Yeah...
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instead of pass it off on somebody else, really it's kind of a break even, right? You know, the, the, the auctions don't love it either because any time...
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Do- not don't love Dealer Defender, don't love what happens when a vehicle's misrepresented and when it's running through the lane, and then it has to enter arbitration, and then...
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Like, everyone's having a bad experience- Right... in that situation. Yeah. Right. The buyer's- The bad cops... having a bad experience. Yep. The seller's having a bad experience.
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The auction's having a bad experience, [laughs] right? Yeah. And, and you do f- feel like starting to put the pressure where it is due on the seller to properly represent the vehicle and to, to not try to move it around.
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When you start to put the pressure on that, the, the natural result is they're going to have fewer and fewer places to hide when the, that is the intention. Look, everything- Yep...
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everybody can have a car that goes bad and r- people that try to do their best But really starting to weed that out. Like, those cars will find somewhere else to go, and people can decide where they wanna buy.
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So, um, I think any, any area of any business that technology touches, right, this information, you know, parity happens where all of a sudden like, oh, I know the same thing that they know, the same thing that they know, right?
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That's why pricing transparency has become a thing, and now condition transparency at the auction. Sounds like this is a great first step. Is there any other product on the market at all that does anything like this?
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No, not... No, not that I've seen at all. And I'll, I'll add, you know, the, the conversations that I've had with some of these, uh, remarketers, we are in conversations of bringing them on board.
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So it's almost gonna be like, "Hey, who's first? Who's gonna raise their hand and say, 'Hey, we believe in transparency.'" Yeah.
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"We're giving this data to Dealer Defender because we wanna make sure that our buyers know that they can trust where they're buying their vehicle." Mm. You know, and that- Well-...
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the credibility of that auction, you feel like would go, like, significantly up. Absolutely up. And then when you have bu- and you have buyers that trust an auction, right?
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Like, where the sellers naturally wanna go, like, where the buyers are at. Right. The ecosystem really does kind of like do its thing. Kyle, you were gonna say something.
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Well, I think that the end con- you know, I, I'm, I'm going all the way to the end consumer, right? For, for those times where maybe a, a...
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what should run, uh, what should have run red ran green, and all of a sudden the dealer missed something, right?
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That, that someone else caught, and now the end user is dealing with a problem that, that wasn't, that, that shouldn't have been theirs to deal with. Mm. And I think this also gets that out, right? Because- Absolutely...
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hey, look, some, some, these, these cars still get bought and sold.
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Like, red cars run all day and get bought and sold, and people are very aware of what they are buying as an end user, as someone that's trying to put that car on the road.
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Um, maybe it's a cost or, or, or, or, or they're, they're willing to fix that thing up. Mm-hmm. Right? But, but, like, we need to, they, they... people need to know that. Mm-hmm. No, absolutely.
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I'm so- All the way down to the end consumer. No, I'm so glad that you brought that up, too, because that's a lot of the discussion that we've had internally.
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Um, you know, again, through my connection with the state associations, lobbying and going to the state house is one of the big things we do.
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And, you know, nothing worries an attorney general more than when it affects their constituents. So- Yep... and I feel like you brought up that great point.
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Like, hey, if we're continually passing a buck off to dealer to dealer, we're actually inflating the market price of vehicles, one. Mm-hmm.
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Two, maybe we're not catching something at the dealership, and we're passing that off to a customer. So super happy you brought that up. It's a good point. Well, uh, man, now, yeah, 'cause you said...
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Like, all of these places where we don't create efficiencies for data that's already exists creates people problems on top of, on, on top of this.
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So when you say, like, artificially inflating the market, you take that all the way down to like, well, the auction wouldn't need to have as high of fees if the arbitration levels weren't so high and needing to staff up to support those arbitration methods- Mm-hmm...
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and have, have the volume of, you know, people or technicians to handle some of these things. We...
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I, I think we do this in, like, so many regards in our industry, actually, where we, where we artificially inflate the price of vehicles- Mm-hmm...
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due to downstream costs that can be, uh, lessened with the right technology- Right... in place. Yep. Right. 100%. Yep. You know- Yeah...
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we don't, we don't get to talk to a lot of independents just throughout our shows- Mm... and, you know, we've been more and more growing relationships with trade associations across, across the country. And from,
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as the representative for the independents, what are the things that you're specifically speaking with legislators?
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What are the issues that are coming up when you're going and you're trying to lobby or you're trying to help fix problems? What are some of those problems? I'm very curious. Yeah.
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So I mean, one of the biggest ones here in Indiana that we've been lobbying for is extended inter- interim plates. Uh, the problem becomes- Mm...
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that you have state regulations and laws conflicting with each other when it comes to title processes and title work. You know, maybe Illinois, you don't have to deliver a, a, a title for 90 days. Indiana, it's 30 days.
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So now we're receiving... We purchased the vehicle from an Illinois dealer. In 90 days, they feel like they're doing the right thing. We're a 30-day state, so there we have a problem. Now we have a mad customer- Mm...
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with a temp tag that's only good for 45 days, and we're trying to just take care of the customer, and the customer's not [laughs] happy because they can't go register their vehicle. Golly.
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So, I mean- Oh, I've been there... you know, that, that's one of them. I've so been there. It's so hard. [laughs] Right. Uh, yeah, so that's a big one. Um, let me see. I don't... Nothing on...
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Nothing else is coming off right on top of the dome, but if it does, I'll get back with you. Well, I think, uh, I mean, a- as, as the world kind of continues to flatten, right?
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And even states continue to flatten, and more deliveries are done inside or outside of state, whether that be on the wholesale side of the business, right?
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You're buying a car from another state, need that title in order to get the tag, or on the retail side of the business where you're dealing with cross-state titling, um, and getting d- getting documentation to, to the right states.
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I think, you know, this, the, the, the beauty of, uh, interstate commerce is the fact that states have, uh, some guidelines that, that the feds don't have to in a country as big as ours. Mm-hmm.
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But as, as the country becomes more flat in its economic, uh, ca- capabilities because of people willing to drive or get things delivered- Mm-hmm...
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it definitely presents a challenge, especially for a smaller dealer, right? Right. Absolutely it is. Um, uh, like, that, that, that, that has to be one of the things that's on your mind. Uh, uh, is this...
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Are you starting to, to dream on like, "Oh, my goodness, we've built this. Like, what else can I build?" Yeah. That's the question. Uh, you know what? You know, I'm, I'm already... I'm an entrepreneur at heart.
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[laughs] So I'm always- Perfect... thinking about how can we make it better. So we've got, you know, five other products that are, can feed into Dealer Defender to make this better for dealers as well. That sounds right.
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So- That tracks. That's an entrepreneur. Just, just keep going. I always need five more things- I do. [laughs]... that I don't have time for- Right. [laughs]... right, that I'm gonna try to build- Yeah.
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[laughs] We'll make it happen... and I'm gonna try to do today. Um- Yeah... te- let's ask this question. It's a little bit off topic, but I think very tangential. Um, I'm sorry.
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It's like parallel lane Can you tell us what your personal use of AI tools is? I'm always so curious, because- Yeah...
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you know, like, entrepreneurs seem to gravitate toward it because it empowers these five other ideas that you have every morning when you wake up. Yeah. So what, what, what do you typically deploy?
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What do you use in your regular life? Yeah. So personally- Uh, just to kind of dive in. Yeah. Yeah. Like OpenAI. So I'm a big, uh, ChatGPT user.
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Uh, so I j- I just think when, you know, you're working from ideation and developing that, uh, it's a good tool for that. Uh, at the store level, we use it for generic things like descri- description writing.
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Uh, but you know what? AI's only as good as the person that's directing it, right?
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So, you know, I, I think, uh, you know, the, for the team, uh, when we're doing descriptions, let's say, like, "Hey, guys, it's super important to add the very specific details about what is important about this vehicle.
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You know, did we do brakes? Does it have new tires?" Yes. Uh, "Does it have a common issue oil filter housing on a BMW that, you know, this sucker needs replaced," you know? So it's things like that that are common.
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Like, let's add to the story a little bit so we just don't get some generic, uh, AI generated, spit out response.
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You know, I think this, this makes a very, uh, solid point, and it's that the most accessible uses of AI tools are often the most deployable now. Uh-huh.
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'Cause it's easy to start getting tactical and talk about connecting things and this and that, but the reality is there is so much low-hanging fruit- Mm-hmm...
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just getting your team to deploy with proper eti- you know, proper AI etiquette- Right...
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on a regular basis, that really helps you do a lot more and, and get a lot more out of the people that, you know, were doing the thing before. But it ends up serving the customer well, it ends up serving your team well.
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Give us a little purview on, on your, your dealership. We talked a lot about your tech, but- Yeah... talk a little about the store. What's it called? Yeah. How can we- Yeah... how can we check it out? So, yeah.
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We're called Best Deal Auto Sales. We've got, uh, six locations up in northern Indiana. Uh, we have four service centers. We have a body shop. We employ about 90 people. Nice.
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Uh, we've got about a rotation of 700 vehicles at any time. Uh, started in 1999. Good night. Uh, have a ton of friends that have joined the business with us that we've known from elementary school and high school.
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Uh, I've got three older brothers. We're all involved in the business in some capacity. Uh, so it's really a family and friend affair. And, uh- Love that... we ha- we have a great team. Super grateful. That's awesome.
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And, and- Man, I, and I love hearing a independent with four service centers. Let's go. Are they attached, or are they, or are they, like, just customer-centric service? Oh, no. So they're... Yeah.
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We use it for internal, and we service our customers' vehicles at, uh- So cool... only 90 bucks an hour. I mean, we're super low rate. Woo. Yo. Uh, so. Come on.
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[laughs] Do you know To- do you know Todd Caputo by any chance? [laughs] I don't. He was the used car king. No, it kind of sounds familiar, but I don't. Oh, my gosh. Uh, yeah. We need to connect you with Todd Caputo.
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Okay. He built a great independent, independent brand. Nice. Oh, man. Well, good night. Undercutting the market. That's a... I mean, 90 bucks an hour, like that's- Yeah... that's some efficiency built in right there.
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Yeah, we do. And you can- Yeah, we have- I think you can do that when you don't have the overhead of like, you know, potentially a franchise store or something like that. Yeah.
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We have, uh, we have great techs that we've scalped from franchise stores, so we've been lucky to have some really amazing techs here, and, uh- Why do they...... we're efficient. Let me ask you this, this...
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'Cause I think this will serve the whole audience. Why do techs come work for you? Uh, because my... We have an open door policy. You got a problem, come see me directly.
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Uh, you know, this comes down from the top down, my dad, who's the CEO of the company. You can hop in. You get his cell phone number. You can go to his house and have a chat, [laughs] you know?
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Having that open door and really caring about the guys, and taking care of them, too. I mean, pay 'em really, really well. Uh- Yeah... the last shop that we just built, you know, we air conditioned.
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So, you know, it's just catering to the needs. That'll do it. Uh, taking care of people, man. That's it. Just take care of people. Ah. So. Look, I love it. I, I knew...
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I, I had a, I had a strange suspicion you were gonna bring it around to that. Yeah. I was like- Yes... "This cat, he's not just building tech. He's caring for people all the way across-" Right... "the ecosystem."
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[laughs] Travis, I'm so glad that you joined us. I'm glad we found this story and then were able to bring you in, talk about what you're doing.
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Kudos to building, uh, something, uh, from the ground up out of the dealership that's serving the entire industry, and wish you the best. Thanks for joining us on Auto Collabs. Yeah. Thank you so much, guys.
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[upbeat music] Okay. So a lot of people when they build stuff, especially in auto, it, like, solves just a personal pain point right off the bat.
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But the fact that this was a group think of independent dealers in his area- Yeah... with the, with the dealer association, and he was like, "You know what? I'll shoulder that. Let's go," you know?
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And so he put his time, his resources, his thought, you know, into building something that works for everyone. Yeah, there's a revenue opportunity. There's a goal. He wants to get in dealers.
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But the bigger thing is, is this is built for the people that need it, that said they need it. This is, like, for me, the, the, the day and age we live in, technology's moving so fast, ideas are flowing at us so fast.
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I was reading an article from, like, 20 years ago in which the, the person writing it suggests that back then they were already receiving more information in a day than you could digest in your entire lifetime.
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And a lot of people- 20 years ago. Yeah. [laughs] A lot of people use that as an excuse, that they're like, "Man, there's no new ideas now. Everybody's thought of everything."
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And then here comes, from the great auto industry- Woo. Let's go...
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someone that's like, "Yeah, and here's a real operational issue that does not have a good enough solution to it, and beep" And I love these stories like this. The end, the end of the URL is in.ai Whoa. Wow. Really?
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Go figure that. If you could sell without the.ai URL- [laughs]... you know you really got something.
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I was most enamored by the fact when he said, "I hire people and scalp them from franchise dealerships to come work in my dealership by offering them flexibility, by offering them air condition shops," like perks. Wow.
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Um, and he also mentioned something that I once thought was just a benefit of franchise shops, which is all the training you need to do.
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He was like, "Actually, a lot of people don't like the fact that they have to do all this mandatory stuff," 'cause it, it takes their time and they're not earning while they're doing it.
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So a little bit of a counterpoint. And, uh, just, I think anybody that raises the bar and shows us a way that, um, you know, what people are looking for allows us as a franchise industry to grow as well.
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So, uh, either way, great conversation. Third independent- Yeah... is a winner. We gotta have more of these. Absolutely. On behalf of Kyle- Hey. What? What? Hit, hit him. Hit him. Go with it.
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Oh, I was gonna say- I was gonna go with it. I was gonna pick it up... on behalf of Kyle Mountsier, Michael Cirillo, and myself, thank you as always for listening to Auto Collabs. [upbeat music]
