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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So why don't we
just start?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Whenever
you're ready.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Welcome to
another episode of Authors Reads
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and my guest, J. Craig Williams.
He will be reading from his
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book, How Would You Decide? 10
Famous Trials That Changed
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History, and his children's
book, The Sled. Welcome, Craig.
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I very much
appreciate you inviting me to
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your show.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: But before we
get to the reading, I have a
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couple questions about your
background as an author. So if
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you could just say a few words
about why authorship entered
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your life and when did it do
that?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, I
started writing a legal blog, oh
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boy, back in 2003, I think.
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It was published for a number of
years, and it got picked up by
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Law. Com, which was at that time
one of the big legal websites.
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And it was featured on the front
page for a number of posts that
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I had written. And then I was
contacted by Kaplan Publishing,
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and they were looking for
someone to write a legal book.
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And the person that contacted me
suggested that I take all of the
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individual... Episodes or posts,
I guess, that I had written and
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combined them into an
organizational outline and then
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put them into a book. So at that
point in time, when she
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contacted me, I had several
years worth of posts that I had
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put up.
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So it was easy to simply write
an outline for a book. My first
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book was called How to Get Sued,
an Instructional Guide. And It
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was funny stories about stupid
things that people do to get in
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trouble with the law, like the
guy who robs the convenience
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store with a staple gun and then
runs across the street after he
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gets chased away and jumps the
fence and lands himself in the
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local prison yard.
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So it's kind of silly things
like that. And then Kaplan
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Publishing published it, sent me
on a book tour, which was very
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exciting. I got to go to book
shows. People lined up in front
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of me to get my autograph on the
books, which I thought was
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really funny.
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And I went on a number of radio
shows in New York and Chicago
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and Los Angeles, and the book
got a good amount of attention.
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I guess it kind of all came from
one of my blog posts when
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someone that I knew entered it
in the Los Angeles Press Club as
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an entry for that year. And it
won first place and beat out the
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Los Angeles Times. So it's...
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I would say the
outgrowth of your work as a
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lawyer. And is that your
background?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Yes, I'm an
attorney. And, you know, one of
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the things that attorneys have
to do all the time is write. So
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I was really bad at it when I
graduated from college. And so I
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worked really hard at it and
made it one of my best skills.
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And three books later, I would
say it's one of my best skills.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: When you write
something and it's done and you
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look at it, how would you
describe a good paragraph or
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section of yours?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, that's,
you know, I've taught legal
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writing in school, and I think
the thing that really stands out
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is to get your point across
first in the very beginning. You
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know, I like the old style of
journalism when you learn the
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who, what, where, how, when, and
why when you read the first
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sentence of a newspaper article.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: The inverted
pyramid.
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Exactly. So I
think... My style of writing is
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to put it all in up front, put
in a couple of sentences to kind
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of explain it, and then a
transition sentence that leads
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into the next thought. So that's
a typical paragraph for me.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: When you were a
kid, what kind of books did you
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like to read?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Oh, don't
really. I remember reading the
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books that we got from school in
the scholastic. Yeah. Those
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books that were handed out and
that you went home and, you
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know, got a dime or a nickel
from your grandmother and got a
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book to read. I would say that
those were my favorites.
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They kind of led me into
long-term reading. When I was in
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high school and college, we got
into Dostoevsky and some pretty
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intense reading, Melville and so
forth. And so it changed quite a
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bit, but I think my most
enjoyable reading was as a kid.
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Yeah.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What do you
remember? Then and or now, what
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were your favorite authors and
or what? Role models, when you
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read somebody else's work and
you read and you say, that's a
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good book, what is that
typically to be?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, as a
lawyer, I've read all my life,
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even to the point of reading the
sight of cereal boxes.
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But I think my favorite author
of all is Tom Clancy. He's now
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dead and there's a lot of
ghostwriters, a couple that have
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worked with him. Books are
amazingly detailed. I enjoy the
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plot changes from chapter to
chapter. It's a fun story to
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read, and it's definitely
different than the boring legal
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stuff I read all the time.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So tell us, why
did you decide to write 10
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famous trials, and how did you
select the Salem Witch Trial as
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one of the 10?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I got
persuaded to write a second book
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by my publisher Kaplan
Publishing and they wanted me to
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look at famous trials from the
perspective of a trial lawyer.
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I've been a trial lawyer for
nearly 40 years and really enjoy
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it. So my publisher and I sat
down and kind of sketched out 10
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famous trials that she thought
would be interesting to people.
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I was born in Massachusetts, so
the Salem Witch Trials to me
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have always been of interest
because it was a thing I grew up
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with in grade school and heard
about and just couldn't believe
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that people would do that kind
of thing to other people. And so
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I really wanted to delve into it
and understand why it happened
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and what lessons we should learn
from it.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What lessons
should we learn from the Salem
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Witch Trials?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I would say
that they're the same lessons
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that we need to learn today. And
that's that, you know, we've
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heard the term witch hunt in our
current political climate, but I
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think it's the person that's
screaming witch hunt that is
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really the one who needs to be
hunted here. But in the case of
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the Salem Witch Trials, the
lesson I think to draw from that
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particular issue as it relates
to today is that you cannot go
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along with fear.
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And division among people to
live in a community. There was a
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couple of children who
supposedly ingested ergot or
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rye, rye seed or rye bread that
had gotten mold in it. And
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supposedly that's an LSD trip.
And these children started
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spouting all kinds of crazy
things about witches and people
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were in a depressed...
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Economic time. It was winter.
They were superstitious and they
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didn't have good, solid,
rational thinking. And I think
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that that's really what's
missing today. So I think the
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lesson to draw from it is really
one of understand the community
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that you're in, understand that
people are different. Don't
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operate on the basis of fear and
go along with the crowd.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I read at least
the summary from your website.
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Of the Salem Witch Trials. And
there seemed to be a lot of
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institutional checks on, say,
the madness of the crowds, and
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they did not function. Why do
you think that? Is that true?
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And why do you think that
happened that way?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I think it
happened that way because the
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people that were appointed...
First of all, the governor
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himself was a treasure hunter.
So he was elevated to the
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position because he was wealthy
and not very intelligent.
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Not to mirror today's time. No,
not at all. But on top of that,
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the governor then appointed a
couple of merchants from the
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town to act as judges with no
legal training. I mean, I note
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in the book that the closest
lawyer was 3,000 miles away in
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England. So you have people
untrained in the law.
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You have a hysterical society of
people that are screaming that
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my cow died because the old lady
next to me put a curse on it. So
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you have superstition. The
merchants didn't know enough
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about the law to be able to put
a stop to it. That was one of
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the checks and balances that
didn't work.
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Another one was the expert
witnesses. You had Cotton Mather
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from Boston who'd written about
witches and... His book was a
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bestseller at the time and
apparently fed the hysteria that
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existed in Salem. So you have
religious leaders who are
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feeding the hysteria, you have
untrained people who are trying
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to judge it, and you have a
screaming populace.
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So the checks of society really
didn't exist in that. You know,
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the thought of, let's kill all
the lawyers that Shakespeare,
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and that a lot of people quoted,
doesn't include the lead-in to
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it, which is, if you want
anarchy, then let's kill all the
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lawyers.
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I think without lawyers, without
judges, without trained people
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in place that were bent on
protecting themselves, it sounds
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very much like what's going on
today. But I think that's what
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happened back then and the
checks and balances didn't work
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like they're being tested today.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Is there
anything else you'd like to say
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before you read your excerpts
from 10 to 15? Famous trials?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I would say
for anybody listening that wants
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to be an author, the hardest
part about it is getting
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started. If you sit down and
just sketch out an outline,
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maybe 10 points that you want to
cover in a book, depending on
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the kind of style of book you
want to write, children's book
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is a little bit more difficult.
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I think the hardest book that
I've written was a book for
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children because you have to
appeal and understand your
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audience. So pick the kind of
book you want to write, whether
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you want to write the great
American novel, whether you want
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to write a historical review,
whether you want to write a
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children's book, and just start
writing.
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Get an outline and start
writing. I've been tasked to
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write four more chapters over
the next year for the next
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version of the In Dispute
podcast episode that the book
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got turned into on the Legal
Talk Network.
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So these 10 chapters are out and
available as miniseries.
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Episodes. You can listen to the
lawyers and the judges and the
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witnesses talk about or read
actually from the transcripts
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and then give some kind of
narration about what's happening
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in the trial, why it's
happening.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So let's hear
you read an excerpt from the
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Salem Witch Trials.
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Okay.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: This is
chapter two of my book, How
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Would You Decide? 10 Famous
Trials That Changed History. The
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website is 10famoustrials.com.
You can buy it on Amazon or you
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can buy it on Ingram. So this is
the Salem Witch Trials and it
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says, Step into the shoes of a
witch.
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You are a fine, upstanding
member of the community and well
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respected by all, having lived
for years in Salem, part of the
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Massachusetts Bay Colony in the
year 1692. Unfortunately, you've
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just been accused of a
supernatural crime that will
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almost certainly end with your
death by hanging as a result of
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grand jury proceedings you knew
nothing about.
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But don't worry, things will get
worse before they get better, if
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you can even look at it that
way. After your indictment and
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arrest, you'll be thrown in jail
in the middle of a brutally cold
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New England winter, where the
temperatures are below freezing.
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Because you are a woman with
virtually no money and little
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standing in society, you won't
be able to pay your jail fees,
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so you'll only get the food your
family brings to you on
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occasion.
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You'll be bitter cold because
you can't afford the firewood,
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and to top it off, The jail
leaks, allowing the wind and
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snow to enter your cell. Plus,
you may languish in jail for
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four or five months before you
go to trial. Perhaps by then, it
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will warm up, if you're still
alive.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I like your
style.
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Thank you.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: You immediately
understand the implications and
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they get the... I mean, having
to buy firewood?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Yes, isn't
that crazy? And your food. And
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pay the jailer to keep you
there.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: And I assume he
was not the kind and caring
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jailer you could expect from
literature.
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: No, because
the jailer knew, just like
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00:14:15,412 --> 00:14:17,733
everybody else in town, that you
were shortly going to hang.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So why bother?
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00:14:20,889 --> 00:14:21,390
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Why bother?
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00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:25,971
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What do you
think accounts for this madness
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00:14:26,231 --> 00:14:28,512
overtaking a society?
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00:14:29,372 --> 00:14:32,073
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It does only
take one person to start the
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00:14:32,113 --> 00:14:36,714
madness. The person who
complains. Because you're
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00:14:36,854 --> 00:14:37,274
different.
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00:14:39,715 --> 00:14:43,856
You're saying things that I
don't understand. You must be a
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witch.
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00:14:45,777 --> 00:14:46,257
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
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00:14:48,909 --> 00:14:53,718
Well, let's talk about your
children's book. You described
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00:14:53,818 --> 00:14:59,942
it as a more different process
than writing 10 famous trials.
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00:15:01,323 --> 00:15:04,085
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Right. Well,
you know, one 10 famous trials
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00:15:04,105 --> 00:15:07,127
is an analytical look at the
trials and kind of a very
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informed view of why they turned
out the way they turned out. I,
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00:15:12,031 --> 00:15:15,914
you know, quote hearsay rules
and explain those and explain
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00:15:17,175 --> 00:15:21,493
why evidence comes in and other
evidence comes in. How things
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00:15:21,533 --> 00:15:22,354
occur in the case.
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00:15:22,354 --> 00:15:27,376
So it's very scholarly, I guess,
in a way. And the children's
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00:15:27,436 --> 00:15:30,837
book, on the other hand, I
wanted a book that I could leave
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for my grandchildren, in
particular my granddaughter and
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grandson, so that they would
have something to remember their
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00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,402
grandfather by. And I thought,
why not write a little book for
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her?
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00:15:43,763 --> 00:15:47,224
It's about 20 pages long now in
the book, and there's only a few
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lines per page. When I started
writing it and when I finished
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it, it was about a hundred
typewritten pages. So a huge
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00:15:55,420 --> 00:16:00,842
long story that I had to cut
down into, and just cut down and
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00:16:00,902 --> 00:16:03,843
cut down and cut down. And I had
one of my friends, Daniel
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00:16:03,903 --> 00:16:08,465
Singer, who you probably know,
Rover, did the editing for me on
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00:16:08,445 --> 00:16:08,845
the book.
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I had my publisher. This book
was published by Crimson Club
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Publishing, a different
publisher than my, my first and
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00:16:15,308 --> 00:16:17,348
third book. Well, actually
Crimson Club Publishing
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published the third one as well.
But this little book is a, it's
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a fun one. I'll read to you from
the start of it.
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00:16:24,272 --> 00:16:28,055
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I'll tell you.
Is your granddaughter a
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00:16:28,135 --> 00:16:29,716
character in this book?
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00:16:30,716 --> 00:16:34,438
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: She is. Her
name is Naomi Jo. Her mother is
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00:16:34,478 --> 00:16:38,481
in the book, my daughter. Her
father, who's my son-in-law,
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00:16:39,722 --> 00:16:45,365
also in the book is my first
dog, Duchess, and a Bighorn Ram.
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00:16:45,605 --> 00:16:48,567
I serve on the Bighorn Institute
Board Of Directors out in Palm
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00:16:48,647 --> 00:16:54,271
Springs. So it's a near and dear
charity to me. And I included a
265
00:16:54,671 --> 00:16:58,154
snow leopard in here as a
character just for some variety.
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00:16:58,254 --> 00:17:02,697
And because it's always been an
animal that I've always loved.
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00:17:04,258 --> 00:17:06,360
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: How old was she
when you wrote it?
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00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:07,040
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Seven.
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00:17:09,502 --> 00:17:14,625
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Have you had
occasion to read? The book or
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00:17:14,706 --> 00:17:20,209
give the book to your grandchild
and explain the differences and
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00:17:20,229 --> 00:17:24,492
the similarities between the two
characters or between her
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00:17:24,632 --> 00:17:26,534
character and her herself?
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00:17:28,595 --> 00:17:31,818
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. I
have read the book with her and
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00:17:31,878 --> 00:17:36,861
to her. Her mother has an
organic farm and they sell at
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00:17:36,961 --> 00:17:40,203
farmer's stands and they have
their own farm stand and they
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00:17:40,223 --> 00:17:45,198
also sell at farmer's markets.
So she has a number of copies of
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00:17:45,338 --> 00:17:51,020
her book, and she sells her book
at the farmer's markets up in
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00:17:51,541 --> 00:17:55,542
Crescent City and up in Oregon.
She's very proud of it.
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00:17:55,622 --> 00:17:59,044
She wanders around with it,
waves it, and says to people,
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this is my book, this is about
me, which is kind of fun. At
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00:18:03,866 --> 00:18:09,188
seven years old, she was a
precocious little girl, and now
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00:18:09,368 --> 00:18:13,167
I think she's 10 or 11. And
she's grown into quite a young
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00:18:13,227 --> 00:18:17,130
lady. So this book was written a
little bit more when she was
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00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:24,456
precocious and now fits her as a
very wise and thoughtful young
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00:18:24,496 --> 00:18:24,717
lady.
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00:18:25,477 --> 00:18:26,778
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What a wonderful
gift.
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00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,021
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: There's
another one in the works. My
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00:18:30,101 --> 00:18:33,004
fourth book, I'm writing for my
second set of grandchildren,
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00:18:33,825 --> 00:18:39,929
Stallard and Tiago. Stallard is
a Viking. I'm sorry, Tiago is
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00:18:39,929 --> 00:18:43,510
the Viking, and Stallard is a
pirate sailor here from the
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00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:45,371
United States, and they meet in
the middle of the ocean, and
292
00:18:45,371 --> 00:18:48,712
they have a fight, and then
become good friends, and then
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00:18:48,832 --> 00:18:50,812
sail around the world, and
there's a little story about
294
00:18:50,852 --> 00:18:51,472
them doing that.
295
00:18:53,133 --> 00:18:55,073
It hasn't been published yet,
but I haven't finished it as
296
00:18:55,093 --> 00:18:55,293
well.
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00:18:56,254 --> 00:18:59,615
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I would
love to hear that one as well
298
00:18:59,755 --> 00:19:04,716
when it is available, but now
we're going to hear an excerpt
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00:19:04,816 --> 00:19:08,117
on as much of the sled as you
want.
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00:19:12,041 --> 00:19:14,082
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It was just a
few nights before Christmas when
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00:19:14,142 --> 00:19:18,104
Naomi had the dream. In it, she
saw a man wearing an old silk
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00:19:18,104 --> 00:19:21,986
hat catching snowflakes on his
tongue. His eyes twinkled as
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00:19:22,046 --> 00:19:26,348
each snowflake landed. It seemed
like magic. Then the man took
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00:19:26,388 --> 00:19:30,330
off his hat and touched it to
Naomi's head. As he did, she
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00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:33,591
felt a shiver go through her.
She stuck out her tongue and
306
00:19:33,611 --> 00:19:37,393
caught a snowflake on it. And as
she did, she felt her eyes
307
00:19:37,453 --> 00:19:37,993
twinkle too.
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00:19:39,573 --> 00:19:43,942
Suddenly the wind blew the old
man's old silk hat away. Off it
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00:19:44,022 --> 00:19:47,909
went into a swirl of snowflakes.
As he ran to catch it, he
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00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:51,576
disappeared into the blizzard.
But his hat blew over a steep
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00:19:51,676 --> 00:19:55,322
cliff. And knocked loose an
icicle that was hanging from
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00:19:55,342 --> 00:19:59,425
that cliff. The magic hat landed
right on top of the broken-off
313
00:19:59,545 --> 00:20:04,009
icicle, and the icicle came to
life as the Frost King.
314
00:20:05,891 --> 00:20:08,353
The Frost King had been an
icicle for so long that he had
315
00:20:08,473 --> 00:20:12,957
lost his family and friends. He
felt lonely and unloved, and his
316
00:20:12,997 --> 00:20:15,358
heart was as cold as the icicle
he had become.
317
00:20:16,419 --> 00:20:19,182
Now he wanted to freeze
Christmas so nobody could enjoy
318
00:20:19,202 --> 00:20:23,792
it, and they would all feel as
miserable as he did. Naomi woke
319
00:20:23,832 --> 00:20:25,734
from her dream suddenly and
heard her mother call,
320
00:20:25,914 --> 00:20:29,536
Breakfast! It took a minute for
her to shake her head loose from
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00:20:29,556 --> 00:20:31,537
the dream. It seemed so real.
322
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,581
In his grease-stained overalls
and an old silk cap, Paul The
323
00:20:37,641 --> 00:20:42,084
Junkyard Man watched Naomi as
she walked to school. He noticed
324
00:20:42,164 --> 00:20:45,226
her stop and stare at the new
sled in the toy store window.
325
00:20:46,107 --> 00:20:49,664
When he saw her head droop in
disappointment, Paul walked over
326
00:20:49,705 --> 00:20:52,866
and offered to help Naomi build
a sled from his junkyard parts
327
00:20:53,306 --> 00:20:54,387
if her mother agreed.
328
00:20:55,288 --> 00:20:59,250
When Naomi asked her mom, Julie,
she thought it was a grand idea.
329
00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:02,171
It will give you and Paul a
chance to become better friends,
330
00:21:02,171 --> 00:21:06,734
she said. Naomi wondered why her
mom wanted them to become better
331
00:21:06,794 --> 00:21:11,676
friends. Naomi and Paul finished
Naomi's junkyard sled the day
332
00:21:11,736 --> 00:21:15,158
before Christmas. Now she could
go sledding with her classmates.
333
00:21:15,859 --> 00:21:19,036
But when she got to the hill at
Fox Country Club, She saw her
334
00:21:19,116 --> 00:21:22,497
friends with their store-bought
sleds, and she stopped walking.
335
00:21:23,557 --> 00:21:27,098
She looked down at her junkyard
sled, and her head drooped
336
00:21:27,159 --> 00:21:31,800
again, embarrassed. Naomi
instead turned toward Bear
337
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,401
Canyon, where her classmates
wouldn't see her junkyard sled.
338
00:21:36,341 --> 00:21:39,282
She was walking with her head
down, and she didn't see the
339
00:21:39,342 --> 00:21:42,263
sign that said, Danger! Steep
cliff!
340
00:21:43,983 --> 00:21:48,176
Naomi got on her sled and pushed
to go down the hill. She didn't
341
00:21:48,256 --> 00:21:51,157
see the steep cliff soon enough
to stop. She fell to the bottom,
342
00:21:51,498 --> 00:21:55,239
but the magic twinkle in her
eyes saved her from harm. She
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00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,301
landed in the cold snow and
quickly fell asleep. When she
344
00:21:59,361 --> 00:22:01,121
did, she had another dream.
345
00:22:02,782 --> 00:22:05,423
She dreamed that she woke up,
but she was trapped in a jail of
346
00:22:05,463 --> 00:22:09,065
tall icicles built by the Frost
King. She wasn't completely
347
00:22:09,125 --> 00:22:13,106
alone, however. The Bighorn Ram
watched from a high perch on the
348
00:22:13,126 --> 00:22:16,708
cliff as Naomi fell. He bounded
down the icicle jail to help
349
00:22:16,748 --> 00:22:20,803
her. Two of his friends followed
him, Duchess, the sled dog, and
350
00:22:20,903 --> 00:22:21,984
Bella, the snow leopard.
351
00:22:22,944 --> 00:22:26,567
Kingston and the other animals'
eyes had that twinkle, too, and
352
00:22:26,587 --> 00:22:30,591
they each noticed the twinkle in
Naomi's eyes as she fell.
353
00:22:31,691 --> 00:22:34,734
Kingston lowered his strong ram
horns and broke a big hole in
354
00:22:34,714 --> 00:22:37,896
the icicles that imprisoned
Naomi. I still can't get out,
355
00:22:37,957 --> 00:22:41,059
Naomi said. Duchess and Bella
rushed in to help.
356
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,162
As Duchess pulled and Bella
pushed, Kingston whispered to
357
00:22:45,182 --> 00:22:49,025
them, She's the twinkle girl.
Who saves Christmas, just like
358
00:22:49,025 --> 00:22:53,986
in the legend. I saw it in her
eyes. Once Naomi and her
359
00:22:54,066 --> 00:22:57,407
junkyard sled were free, she
thanked the animals. They
360
00:22:57,467 --> 00:23:01,948
replied, hurry, the Frost King
is coming. Naomi looked up in
361
00:23:01,988 --> 00:23:06,529
alarm, and that's part of the
story.
362
00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:11,991
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: This book has
illustrations. Could you
363
00:23:12,091 --> 00:23:15,792
describe who did them and what
they produced?
364
00:23:16,996 --> 00:23:18,616
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: The
illustrations were done by
365
00:23:18,756 --> 00:23:24,838
Amelia Bernstein. Amelia is a
deaf woman who my wife,
366
00:23:25,238 --> 00:23:28,139
Christine Bartley-Williams,
who's an American Sign Language
367
00:23:28,179 --> 00:23:32,840
interpreter, she interpreted
Amelia's college degree at
368
00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:35,221
Chapman University for all four
years.
369
00:23:35,741 --> 00:23:39,802
Amelia is an animation artist.
She's worked for Disney. And I
370
00:23:39,842 --> 00:23:43,963
gave her photographs of Naomi. I
gave her photographs of bighorn
371
00:23:44,063 --> 00:23:49,845
rams. I gave her photographs of
our dog. Duchess, and she drew
372
00:23:50,045 --> 00:23:51,546
all of the illustrations in the
book.
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00:23:52,246 --> 00:23:54,947
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I enjoyed the
illustrations I saw.
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00:23:56,388 --> 00:23:57,008
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: They're a lot
of fun.
375
00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:04,231
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Overall, how do
you fit authorship into your
376
00:24:04,311 --> 00:24:06,072
day-to-day life and career?
377
00:24:08,373 --> 00:24:10,654
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It doesn't
really fit into my day-to-day
378
00:24:10,714 --> 00:24:13,335
life and career. I have to
really make a point to take time
379
00:24:13,475 --> 00:24:18,010
out in order to write. Anything
other than legal things, because
380
00:24:18,010 --> 00:24:19,331
that's what I do most of the
time.
381
00:24:20,972 --> 00:24:23,435
And I occasionally get the
opportunity to go do a book
382
00:24:23,495 --> 00:24:27,318
reading or like this, a podcast.
So it's just a moment in time
383
00:24:27,579 --> 00:24:31,042
and generally get back to being
a lawyer and being a dad and
384
00:24:31,382 --> 00:24:33,664
grandfather and all the other
crazy things I do.
385
00:24:35,906 --> 00:24:41,211
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What do you see
as the benefits to being an
386
00:24:41,352 --> 00:24:41,712
author?
387
00:24:45,848 --> 00:24:48,194
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: For the sled,
for me, it was the opportunity
388
00:24:48,214 --> 00:24:51,942
to give lifelong present to my
granddaughter. You know, we all
389
00:24:52,223 --> 00:24:54,789
at some point in time will die
in the future, and I'm sure I
390
00:24:54,809 --> 00:24:59,229
will too. But my granddaughter
will live long after I'm gone.
391
00:24:59,469 --> 00:25:03,673
And this is an opportunity for
her to know me and know that I
392
00:25:03,693 --> 00:25:06,635
loved her and that she has
someone with her all the time.
393
00:25:06,696 --> 00:25:09,598
And that really this book I
wrote for her to tell her, show
394
00:25:09,698 --> 00:25:14,102
her that she can do anything. If
she can save Christmas, she can
395
00:25:14,102 --> 00:25:21,729
do anything. So, you know, the
other books, it gave, I think,
396
00:25:22,189 --> 00:25:22,950
writing a book.
397
00:25:23,438 --> 00:25:25,760
And publishing it as a lawyer
gives you a little bit more
398
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,262
credibility to your clients that
you're a published author. I
399
00:25:29,282 --> 00:25:34,686
think it helps your bottom line
resume. But more for me, it
400
00:25:34,786 --> 00:25:37,969
gives me the chance to sit down
and really delve into something
401
00:25:38,009 --> 00:25:39,170
I enjoy, which is trials.
402
00:25:41,812 --> 00:25:47,095
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: And you get to
think about sort of larger
403
00:25:47,295 --> 00:25:53,156
issues rather than did your
client. Jump the fence into the
404
00:25:53,596 --> 00:25:57,859
prison guard's recreation room.
405
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,423
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Right. Yeah,
it does. It gives me a moment to
406
00:26:02,483 --> 00:26:07,247
kind of drop out of practicing
law and still use my skills that
407
00:26:07,327 --> 00:26:09,509
I've learned in practicing law
to be able to write.
408
00:26:12,671 --> 00:26:16,955
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: If you were to
write something right now, would
409
00:26:16,995 --> 00:26:21,230
it be a legal thing or would it
be another children's book? Or
410
00:26:21,531 --> 00:26:25,314
would it be geared towards an
adult audience?
411
00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:29,258
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, I've
got two books in the works. I
412
00:26:29,238 --> 00:26:31,760
don't have a name for the
children's book that I'm
413
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:37,485
writing. And the episodes about
the podcast and the book are
414
00:26:38,346 --> 00:26:43,391
going to continue on with that
kind of genre. But my goal is to
415
00:26:43,431 --> 00:26:46,954
really sit down and write a
novel. And to write a... Perhaps
416
00:26:46,954 --> 00:26:50,456
a legal mystery novel with a few
twists and turns in it that most
417
00:26:50,496 --> 00:26:51,896
people won't anticipate.
418
00:26:52,236 --> 00:26:54,677
I've enjoyed reading John
Grisham's work. I've enjoyed
419
00:26:54,737 --> 00:26:58,399
watching the movies that get
made from his work. And I think
420
00:26:58,659 --> 00:27:02,101
I might get to that point. They
say that you finally become
421
00:27:02,441 --> 00:27:04,782
well-known as an author when
you've published 10 books. So
422
00:27:05,782 --> 00:27:07,663
I've got three and I'm on my
way.
423
00:27:08,803 --> 00:27:11,725
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: You're halfway
there with three and two.
424
00:27:12,725 --> 00:27:13,165
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Almost.
425
00:27:14,306 --> 00:27:18,351
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah.
Congratulations on what you've
426
00:27:18,431 --> 00:27:21,272
produced and what you will
continue to produce.
427
00:27:21,772 --> 00:27:22,212
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Thank you,
Dan.
428
00:27:24,953 --> 00:27:27,493
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I've kind
of run out of questions. I think
429
00:27:27,533 --> 00:27:32,735
we can draw this podcast to a
conclusion unless you'd like to
430
00:27:32,835 --> 00:27:33,795
say something else.
431
00:27:34,755 --> 00:27:36,456
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It's been an
absolute pleasure to talk with
432
00:27:36,476 --> 00:27:38,116
you and be on your show. Thank
you very much.
433
00:27:38,376 --> 00:27:42,757
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you very
much. And that's another episode
434
00:27:42,898 --> 00:27:50,463
of Authors Reads. If you are an
author and have a poem or a
435
00:27:50,583 --> 00:27:57,145
short story or excerpt of a
non-fiction work that you'd like
436
00:27:57,225 --> 00:28:07,188
to get out there, please contact
me at djng at earthlink.net. If
437
00:28:07,228 --> 00:28:12,329
you would like me to forward a
question on to my guest,
438
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:23,606
please... Email me at djng at
earthlink.net. But that's it for
439
00:28:23,727 --> 00:28:28,834
this time. Thanks for listening.
Bye-bye now.
00:00:01,312 --> 00:00:02,593
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So why don't we
just start?
2
00:00:03,373 --> 00:00:03,934
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Whenever
you're ready.
3
00:00:05,495 --> 00:00:09,558
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Welcome to
another episode of Authors Reads
4
00:00:10,038 --> 00:00:15,502
and my guest, J. Craig Williams.
He will be reading from his
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00:00:15,622 --> 00:00:21,786
book, How Would You Decide? 10
Famous Trials That Changed
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00:00:21,906 --> 00:00:27,670
History, and his children's
book, The Sled. Welcome, Craig.
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00:00:28,651 --> 00:00:30,372
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I very much
appreciate you inviting me to
8
00:00:30,392 --> 00:00:30,732
your show.
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00:00:32,084 --> 00:00:34,425
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: But before we
get to the reading, I have a
10
00:00:34,465 --> 00:00:39,726
couple questions about your
background as an author. So if
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00:00:39,766 --> 00:00:46,468
you could just say a few words
about why authorship entered
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00:00:46,568 --> 00:00:49,909
your life and when did it do
that?
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00:00:51,630 --> 00:00:56,091
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, I
started writing a legal blog, oh
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00:00:56,171 --> 00:00:58,652
boy, back in 2003, I think.
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00:01:00,564 --> 00:01:04,287
It was published for a number of
years, and it got picked up by
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00:01:05,268 --> 00:01:11,773
Law. Com, which was at that time
one of the big legal websites.
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00:01:12,234 --> 00:01:15,456
And it was featured on the front
page for a number of posts that
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00:01:15,476 --> 00:01:20,421
I had written. And then I was
contacted by Kaplan Publishing,
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00:01:20,761 --> 00:01:23,823
and they were looking for
someone to write a legal book.
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00:01:24,824 --> 00:01:28,447
And the person that contacted me
suggested that I take all of the
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00:01:28,507 --> 00:01:33,486
individual... Episodes or posts,
I guess, that I had written and
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00:01:33,586 --> 00:01:37,488
combined them into an
organizational outline and then
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00:01:38,588 --> 00:01:41,470
put them into a book. So at that
point in time, when she
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00:01:41,530 --> 00:01:45,652
contacted me, I had several
years worth of posts that I had
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put up.
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So it was easy to simply write
an outline for a book. My first
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00:01:50,454 --> 00:01:55,016
book was called How to Get Sued,
an Instructional Guide. And It
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00:01:55,016 --> 00:01:58,538
was funny stories about stupid
things that people do to get in
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00:01:58,578 --> 00:02:02,319
trouble with the law, like the
guy who robs the convenience
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00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:06,921
store with a staple gun and then
runs across the street after he
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gets chased away and jumps the
fence and lands himself in the
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local prison yard.
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00:02:12,163 --> 00:02:15,905
So it's kind of silly things
like that. And then Kaplan
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00:02:15,945 --> 00:02:19,206
Publishing published it, sent me
on a book tour, which was very
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00:02:19,266 --> 00:02:24,605
exciting. I got to go to book
shows. People lined up in front
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00:02:24,605 --> 00:02:27,006
of me to get my autograph on the
books, which I thought was
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00:02:27,066 --> 00:02:27,686
really funny.
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00:02:28,767 --> 00:02:33,089
And I went on a number of radio
shows in New York and Chicago
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00:02:33,810 --> 00:02:37,572
and Los Angeles, and the book
got a good amount of attention.
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00:02:37,872 --> 00:02:41,294
I guess it kind of all came from
one of my blog posts when
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00:02:41,894 --> 00:02:46,136
someone that I knew entered it
in the Los Angeles Press Club as
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00:02:46,176 --> 00:02:49,638
an entry for that year. And it
won first place and beat out the
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00:02:49,858 --> 00:02:52,960
Los Angeles Times. So it's...
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00:02:53,968 --> 00:02:56,910
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I would say the
outgrowth of your work as a
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00:02:57,010 --> 00:02:59,171
lawyer. And is that your
background?
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00:02:59,711 --> 00:03:02,233
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Yes, I'm an
attorney. And, you know, one of
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00:03:02,213 --> 00:03:04,454
the things that attorneys have
to do all the time is write. So
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00:03:04,874 --> 00:03:08,536
I was really bad at it when I
graduated from college. And so I
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00:03:08,596 --> 00:03:10,898
worked really hard at it and
made it one of my best skills.
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00:03:10,958 --> 00:03:14,079
And three books later, I would
say it's one of my best skills.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: When you write
something and it's done and you
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00:03:18,822 --> 00:03:23,105
look at it, how would you
describe a good paragraph or
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00:03:23,245 --> 00:03:24,525
section of yours?
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00:03:26,927 --> 00:03:30,269
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, that's,
you know, I've taught legal
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00:03:30,329 --> 00:03:34,671
writing in school, and I think
the thing that really stands out
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is to get your point across
first in the very beginning. You
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00:03:38,853 --> 00:03:42,235
know, I like the old style of
journalism when you learn the
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00:03:42,255 --> 00:03:44,797
who, what, where, how, when, and
why when you read the first
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00:03:44,817 --> 00:03:46,238
sentence of a newspaper article.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: The inverted
pyramid.
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00:03:48,459 --> 00:03:52,436
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Exactly. So I
think... My style of writing is
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00:03:52,416 --> 00:03:56,317
to put it all in up front, put
in a couple of sentences to kind
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of explain it, and then a
transition sentence that leads
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into the next thought. So that's
a typical paragraph for me.
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00:04:04,340 --> 00:04:07,340
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: When you were a
kid, what kind of books did you
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like to read?
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00:04:10,541 --> 00:04:14,662
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Oh, don't
really. I remember reading the
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00:04:14,762 --> 00:04:20,924
books that we got from school in
the scholastic. Yeah. Those
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books that were handed out and
that you went home and, you
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00:04:25,225 --> 00:04:28,526
know, got a dime or a nickel
from your grandmother and got a
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book to read. I would say that
those were my favorites.
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They kind of led me into
long-term reading. When I was in
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00:04:35,508 --> 00:04:39,389
high school and college, we got
into Dostoevsky and some pretty
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intense reading, Melville and so
forth. And so it changed quite a
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00:04:43,810 --> 00:04:46,131
bit, but I think my most
enjoyable reading was as a kid.
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Yeah.
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00:04:46,471 --> 00:04:52,364
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What do you
remember? Then and or now, what
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were your favorite authors and
or what? Role models, when you
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read somebody else's work and
you read and you say, that's a
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00:05:02,435 --> 00:05:06,857
good book, what is that
typically to be?
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00:05:09,038 --> 00:05:11,659
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, as a
lawyer, I've read all my life,
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00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,041
even to the point of reading the
sight of cereal boxes.
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00:05:16,942 --> 00:05:20,583
But I think my favorite author
of all is Tom Clancy. He's now
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00:05:20,743 --> 00:05:22,864
dead and there's a lot of
ghostwriters, a couple that have
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00:05:22,864 --> 00:05:28,007
worked with him. Books are
amazingly detailed. I enjoy the
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00:05:28,087 --> 00:05:32,550
plot changes from chapter to
chapter. It's a fun story to
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00:05:32,630 --> 00:05:36,732
read, and it's definitely
different than the boring legal
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00:05:36,792 --> 00:05:37,772
stuff I read all the time.
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00:05:40,454 --> 00:05:45,297
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So tell us, why
did you decide to write 10
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00:05:45,477 --> 00:05:51,860
famous trials, and how did you
select the Salem Witch Trial as
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00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:52,801
one of the 10?
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00:05:54,801 --> 00:05:57,202
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I got
persuaded to write a second book
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00:05:57,282 --> 00:06:03,104
by my publisher Kaplan
Publishing and they wanted me to
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00:06:03,624 --> 00:06:07,505
look at famous trials from the
perspective of a trial lawyer.
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00:06:07,665 --> 00:06:12,707
I've been a trial lawyer for
nearly 40 years and really enjoy
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00:06:12,747 --> 00:06:17,428
it. So my publisher and I sat
down and kind of sketched out 10
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00:06:17,508 --> 00:06:20,569
famous trials that she thought
would be interesting to people.
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I was born in Massachusetts, so
the Salem Witch Trials to me
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00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,704
have always been of interest
because it was a thing I grew up
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with in grade school and heard
about and just couldn't believe
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that people would do that kind
of thing to other people. And so
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I really wanted to delve into it
and understand why it happened
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and what lessons we should learn
from it.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What lessons
should we learn from the Salem
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00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:50,741
Witch Trials?
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00:06:52,541 --> 00:06:54,783
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I would say
that they're the same lessons
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that we need to learn today. And
that's that, you know, we've
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heard the term witch hunt in our
current political climate, but I
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think it's the person that's
screaming witch hunt that is
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really the one who needs to be
hunted here. But in the case of
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the Salem Witch Trials, the
lesson I think to draw from that
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00:07:13,976 --> 00:07:19,159
particular issue as it relates
to today is that you cannot go
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along with fear.
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00:07:21,841 --> 00:07:29,706
And division among people to
live in a community. There was a
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couple of children who
supposedly ingested ergot or
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rye, rye seed or rye bread that
had gotten mold in it. And
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supposedly that's an LSD trip.
And these children started
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spouting all kinds of crazy
things about witches and people
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were in a depressed...
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00:07:50,389 --> 00:07:54,330
Economic time. It was winter.
They were superstitious and they
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didn't have good, solid,
rational thinking. And I think
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that that's really what's
missing today. So I think the
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00:08:02,312 --> 00:08:05,733
lesson to draw from it is really
one of understand the community
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that you're in, understand that
people are different. Don't
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operate on the basis of fear and
go along with the crowd.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I read at least
the summary from your website.
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Of the Salem Witch Trials. And
there seemed to be a lot of
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institutional checks on, say,
the madness of the crowds, and
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they did not function. Why do
you think that? Is that true?
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And why do you think that
happened that way?
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I think it
happened that way because the
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people that were appointed...
First of all, the governor
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himself was a treasure hunter.
So he was elevated to the
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position because he was wealthy
and not very intelligent.
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00:08:59,114 --> 00:09:03,636
Not to mirror today's time. No,
not at all. But on top of that,
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00:09:03,756 --> 00:09:08,778
the governor then appointed a
couple of merchants from the
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00:09:08,878 --> 00:09:12,620
town to act as judges with no
legal training. I mean, I note
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00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:15,541
in the book that the closest
lawyer was 3,000 miles away in
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England. So you have people
untrained in the law.
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00:09:20,243 --> 00:09:23,786
You have a hysterical society of
people that are screaming that
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my cow died because the old lady
next to me put a curse on it. So
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00:09:28,829 --> 00:09:32,612
you have superstition. The
merchants didn't know enough
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00:09:32,692 --> 00:09:35,634
about the law to be able to put
a stop to it. That was one of
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00:09:35,614 --> 00:09:37,295
the checks and balances that
didn't work.
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00:09:37,975 --> 00:09:42,078
Another one was the expert
witnesses. You had Cotton Mather
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00:09:42,318 --> 00:09:48,428
from Boston who'd written about
witches and... His book was a
147
00:09:48,468 --> 00:09:54,182
bestseller at the time and
apparently fed the hysteria that
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00:09:54,242 --> 00:09:58,919
existed in Salem. So you have
religious leaders who are
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00:09:58,979 --> 00:10:01,981
feeding the hysteria, you have
untrained people who are trying
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00:10:02,021 --> 00:10:05,604
to judge it, and you have a
screaming populace.
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00:10:05,764 --> 00:10:10,247
So the checks of society really
didn't exist in that. You know,
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00:10:10,668 --> 00:10:13,910
the thought of, let's kill all
the lawyers that Shakespeare,
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00:10:14,410 --> 00:10:18,433
and that a lot of people quoted,
doesn't include the lead-in to
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00:10:18,473 --> 00:10:21,716
it, which is, if you want
anarchy, then let's kill all the
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00:10:21,736 --> 00:10:22,156
lawyers.
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00:10:23,477 --> 00:10:26,659
I think without lawyers, without
judges, without trained people
157
00:10:26,819 --> 00:10:33,864
in place that were bent on
protecting themselves, it sounds
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00:10:33,924 --> 00:10:36,326
very much like what's going on
today. But I think that's what
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00:10:36,366 --> 00:10:39,068
happened back then and the
checks and balances didn't work
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00:10:39,448 --> 00:10:42,690
like they're being tested today.
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00:10:45,432 --> 00:10:47,634
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Is there
anything else you'd like to say
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00:10:47,754 --> 00:10:53,217
before you read your excerpts
from 10 to 15? Famous trials?
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00:10:54,358 --> 00:10:56,779
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: I would say
for anybody listening that wants
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00:10:56,819 --> 00:10:59,780
to be an author, the hardest
part about it is getting
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00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,922
started. If you sit down and
just sketch out an outline,
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00:11:03,982 --> 00:11:07,043
maybe 10 points that you want to
cover in a book, depending on
167
00:11:07,023 --> 00:11:09,624
the kind of style of book you
want to write, children's book
168
00:11:09,644 --> 00:11:10,865
is a little bit more difficult.
169
00:11:10,985 --> 00:11:14,146
I think the hardest book that
I've written was a book for
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00:11:14,546 --> 00:11:20,309
children because you have to
appeal and understand your
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00:11:20,409 --> 00:11:24,082
audience. So pick the kind of
book you want to write, whether
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00:11:24,082 --> 00:11:26,782
you want to write the great
American novel, whether you want
173
00:11:26,782 --> 00:11:28,903
to write a historical review,
whether you want to write a
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00:11:28,943 --> 00:11:31,304
children's book, and just start
writing.
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00:11:31,604 --> 00:11:34,825
Get an outline and start
writing. I've been tasked to
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00:11:34,865 --> 00:11:39,046
write four more chapters over
the next year for the next
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00:11:39,126 --> 00:11:43,367
version of the In Dispute
podcast episode that the book
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00:11:43,407 --> 00:11:45,608
got turned into on the Legal
Talk Network.
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00:11:45,728 --> 00:11:50,869
So these 10 chapters are out and
available as miniseries.
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00:11:51,497 --> 00:11:54,179
Episodes. You can listen to the
lawyers and the judges and the
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00:11:54,199 --> 00:11:57,761
witnesses talk about or read
actually from the transcripts
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00:11:57,781 --> 00:12:01,044
and then give some kind of
narration about what's happening
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00:12:01,064 --> 00:12:02,445
in the trial, why it's
happening.
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00:12:03,085 --> 00:12:08,208
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So let's hear
you read an excerpt from the
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00:12:08,329 --> 00:12:09,749
Salem Witch Trials.
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00:12:11,551 --> 00:12:11,751
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Okay.
187
00:12:12,511 --> 00:12:12,772
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
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00:12:13,472 --> 00:12:15,794
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: This is
chapter two of my book, How
189
00:12:15,834 --> 00:12:18,595
Would You Decide? 10 Famous
Trials That Changed History. The
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00:12:18,616 --> 00:12:23,782
website is 10famoustrials.com.
You can buy it on Amazon or you
191
00:12:23,802 --> 00:12:27,784
can buy it on Ingram. So this is
the Salem Witch Trials and it
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00:12:27,804 --> 00:12:29,705
says, Step into the shoes of a
witch.
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00:12:30,646 --> 00:12:33,627
You are a fine, upstanding
member of the community and well
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00:12:33,667 --> 00:12:37,349
respected by all, having lived
for years in Salem, part of the
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00:12:37,369 --> 00:12:42,492
Massachusetts Bay Colony in the
year 1692. Unfortunately, you've
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00:12:42,552 --> 00:12:45,174
just been accused of a
supernatural crime that will
197
00:12:45,254 --> 00:12:48,956
almost certainly end with your
death by hanging as a result of
198
00:12:49,056 --> 00:12:51,117
grand jury proceedings you knew
nothing about.
199
00:12:51,493 --> 00:12:54,716
But don't worry, things will get
worse before they get better, if
200
00:12:54,716 --> 00:12:58,219
you can even look at it that
way. After your indictment and
201
00:12:58,219 --> 00:13:01,561
arrest, you'll be thrown in jail
in the middle of a brutally cold
202
00:13:01,601 --> 00:13:04,564
New England winter, where the
temperatures are below freezing.
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00:13:04,984 --> 00:13:08,067
Because you are a woman with
virtually no money and little
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00:13:08,147 --> 00:13:11,490
standing in society, you won't
be able to pay your jail fees,
205
00:13:12,010 --> 00:13:14,892
so you'll only get the food your
family brings to you on
206
00:13:14,913 --> 00:13:15,373
occasion.
207
00:13:16,154 --> 00:13:19,176
You'll be bitter cold because
you can't afford the firewood,
208
00:13:19,376 --> 00:13:22,570
and to top it off, The jail
leaks, allowing the wind and
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00:13:22,630 --> 00:13:26,452
snow to enter your cell. Plus,
you may languish in jail for
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00:13:26,552 --> 00:13:31,395
four or five months before you
go to trial. Perhaps by then, it
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00:13:31,435 --> 00:13:33,376
will warm up, if you're still
alive.
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00:13:36,818 --> 00:13:38,179
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I like your
style.
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00:13:39,179 --> 00:13:39,820
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Thank you.
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00:13:41,921 --> 00:13:48,985
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: You immediately
understand the implications and
215
00:13:49,005 --> 00:13:53,606
they get the... I mean, having
to buy firewood?
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00:13:54,866 --> 00:13:59,028
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Yes, isn't
that crazy? And your food. And
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pay the jailer to keep you
there.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: And I assume he
was not the kind and caring
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00:14:07,330 --> 00:14:12,331
jailer you could expect from
literature.
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J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: No, because
the jailer knew, just like
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00:14:15,412 --> 00:14:17,733
everybody else in town, that you
were shortly going to hang.
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DAN MCLAUGHLIN: So why bother?
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00:14:20,889 --> 00:14:21,390
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Why bother?
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00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:25,971
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What do you
think accounts for this madness
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00:14:26,231 --> 00:14:28,512
overtaking a society?
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00:14:29,372 --> 00:14:32,073
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It does only
take one person to start the
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00:14:32,113 --> 00:14:36,714
madness. The person who
complains. Because you're
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00:14:36,854 --> 00:14:37,274
different.
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You're saying things that I
don't understand. You must be a
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witch.
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00:14:45,777 --> 00:14:46,257
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Okay.
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00:14:48,909 --> 00:14:53,718
Well, let's talk about your
children's book. You described
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00:14:53,818 --> 00:14:59,942
it as a more different process
than writing 10 famous trials.
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00:15:01,323 --> 00:15:04,085
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Right. Well,
you know, one 10 famous trials
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00:15:04,105 --> 00:15:07,127
is an analytical look at the
trials and kind of a very
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00:15:07,268 --> 00:15:11,891
informed view of why they turned
out the way they turned out. I,
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00:15:12,031 --> 00:15:15,914
you know, quote hearsay rules
and explain those and explain
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00:15:17,175 --> 00:15:21,493
why evidence comes in and other
evidence comes in. How things
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00:15:21,533 --> 00:15:22,354
occur in the case.
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00:15:22,354 --> 00:15:27,376
So it's very scholarly, I guess,
in a way. And the children's
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00:15:27,436 --> 00:15:30,837
book, on the other hand, I
wanted a book that I could leave
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for my grandchildren, in
particular my granddaughter and
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00:15:33,658 --> 00:15:37,220
grandson, so that they would
have something to remember their
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00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,402
grandfather by. And I thought,
why not write a little book for
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00:15:42,462 --> 00:15:42,602
her?
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00:15:43,763 --> 00:15:47,224
It's about 20 pages long now in
the book, and there's only a few
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lines per page. When I started
writing it and when I finished
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00:15:50,838 --> 00:15:55,300
it, it was about a hundred
typewritten pages. So a huge
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00:15:55,420 --> 00:16:00,842
long story that I had to cut
down into, and just cut down and
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00:16:00,902 --> 00:16:03,843
cut down and cut down. And I had
one of my friends, Daniel
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00:16:03,903 --> 00:16:08,465
Singer, who you probably know,
Rover, did the editing for me on
252
00:16:08,445 --> 00:16:08,845
the book.
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I had my publisher. This book
was published by Crimson Club
254
00:16:11,886 --> 00:16:15,268
Publishing, a different
publisher than my, my first and
255
00:16:15,308 --> 00:16:17,348
third book. Well, actually
Crimson Club Publishing
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00:16:17,468 --> 00:16:20,490
published the third one as well.
But this little book is a, it's
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00:16:20,490 --> 00:16:23,172
a fun one. I'll read to you from
the start of it.
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00:16:24,272 --> 00:16:28,055
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I'll tell you.
Is your granddaughter a
259
00:16:28,135 --> 00:16:29,716
character in this book?
260
00:16:30,716 --> 00:16:34,438
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: She is. Her
name is Naomi Jo. Her mother is
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00:16:34,478 --> 00:16:38,481
in the book, my daughter. Her
father, who's my son-in-law,
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00:16:39,722 --> 00:16:45,365
also in the book is my first
dog, Duchess, and a Bighorn Ram.
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00:16:45,605 --> 00:16:48,567
I serve on the Bighorn Institute
Board Of Directors out in Palm
264
00:16:48,647 --> 00:16:54,271
Springs. So it's a near and dear
charity to me. And I included a
265
00:16:54,671 --> 00:16:58,154
snow leopard in here as a
character just for some variety.
266
00:16:58,254 --> 00:17:02,697
And because it's always been an
animal that I've always loved.
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00:17:04,258 --> 00:17:06,360
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: How old was she
when you wrote it?
268
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:07,040
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Seven.
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00:17:09,502 --> 00:17:14,625
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Have you had
occasion to read? The book or
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00:17:14,706 --> 00:17:20,209
give the book to your grandchild
and explain the differences and
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00:17:20,229 --> 00:17:24,492
the similarities between the two
characters or between her
272
00:17:24,632 --> 00:17:26,534
character and her herself?
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00:17:28,595 --> 00:17:31,818
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. I
have read the book with her and
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00:17:31,878 --> 00:17:36,861
to her. Her mother has an
organic farm and they sell at
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00:17:36,961 --> 00:17:40,203
farmer's stands and they have
their own farm stand and they
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00:17:40,223 --> 00:17:45,198
also sell at farmer's markets.
So she has a number of copies of
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00:17:45,338 --> 00:17:51,020
her book, and she sells her book
at the farmer's markets up in
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00:17:51,541 --> 00:17:55,542
Crescent City and up in Oregon.
She's very proud of it.
279
00:17:55,622 --> 00:17:59,044
She wanders around with it,
waves it, and says to people,
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00:17:59,084 --> 00:18:03,766
this is my book, this is about
me, which is kind of fun. At
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00:18:03,866 --> 00:18:09,188
seven years old, she was a
precocious little girl, and now
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00:18:09,368 --> 00:18:13,167
I think she's 10 or 11. And
she's grown into quite a young
283
00:18:13,227 --> 00:18:17,130
lady. So this book was written a
little bit more when she was
284
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:24,456
precocious and now fits her as a
very wise and thoughtful young
285
00:18:24,496 --> 00:18:24,717
lady.
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00:18:25,477 --> 00:18:26,778
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What a wonderful
gift.
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00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,021
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: There's
another one in the works. My
288
00:18:30,101 --> 00:18:33,004
fourth book, I'm writing for my
second set of grandchildren,
289
00:18:33,825 --> 00:18:39,929
Stallard and Tiago. Stallard is
a Viking. I'm sorry, Tiago is
290
00:18:39,929 --> 00:18:43,510
the Viking, and Stallard is a
pirate sailor here from the
291
00:18:43,510 --> 00:18:45,371
United States, and they meet in
the middle of the ocean, and
292
00:18:45,371 --> 00:18:48,712
they have a fight, and then
become good friends, and then
293
00:18:48,832 --> 00:18:50,812
sail around the world, and
there's a little story about
294
00:18:50,852 --> 00:18:51,472
them doing that.
295
00:18:53,133 --> 00:18:55,073
It hasn't been published yet,
but I haven't finished it as
296
00:18:55,093 --> 00:18:55,293
well.
297
00:18:56,254 --> 00:18:59,615
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I would
love to hear that one as well
298
00:18:59,755 --> 00:19:04,716
when it is available, but now
we're going to hear an excerpt
299
00:19:04,816 --> 00:19:08,117
on as much of the sled as you
want.
300
00:19:12,041 --> 00:19:14,082
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It was just a
few nights before Christmas when
301
00:19:14,142 --> 00:19:18,104
Naomi had the dream. In it, she
saw a man wearing an old silk
302
00:19:18,104 --> 00:19:21,986
hat catching snowflakes on his
tongue. His eyes twinkled as
303
00:19:22,046 --> 00:19:26,348
each snowflake landed. It seemed
like magic. Then the man took
304
00:19:26,388 --> 00:19:30,330
off his hat and touched it to
Naomi's head. As he did, she
305
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:33,591
felt a shiver go through her.
She stuck out her tongue and
306
00:19:33,611 --> 00:19:37,393
caught a snowflake on it. And as
she did, she felt her eyes
307
00:19:37,453 --> 00:19:37,993
twinkle too.
308
00:19:39,573 --> 00:19:43,942
Suddenly the wind blew the old
man's old silk hat away. Off it
309
00:19:44,022 --> 00:19:47,909
went into a swirl of snowflakes.
As he ran to catch it, he
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00:19:48,090 --> 00:19:51,576
disappeared into the blizzard.
But his hat blew over a steep
311
00:19:51,676 --> 00:19:55,322
cliff. And knocked loose an
icicle that was hanging from
312
00:19:55,342 --> 00:19:59,425
that cliff. The magic hat landed
right on top of the broken-off
313
00:19:59,545 --> 00:20:04,009
icicle, and the icicle came to
life as the Frost King.
314
00:20:05,891 --> 00:20:08,353
The Frost King had been an
icicle for so long that he had
315
00:20:08,473 --> 00:20:12,957
lost his family and friends. He
felt lonely and unloved, and his
316
00:20:12,997 --> 00:20:15,358
heart was as cold as the icicle
he had become.
317
00:20:16,419 --> 00:20:19,182
Now he wanted to freeze
Christmas so nobody could enjoy
318
00:20:19,202 --> 00:20:23,792
it, and they would all feel as
miserable as he did. Naomi woke
319
00:20:23,832 --> 00:20:25,734
from her dream suddenly and
heard her mother call,
320
00:20:25,914 --> 00:20:29,536
Breakfast! It took a minute for
her to shake her head loose from
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00:20:29,556 --> 00:20:31,537
the dream. It seemed so real.
322
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,581
In his grease-stained overalls
and an old silk cap, Paul The
323
00:20:37,641 --> 00:20:42,084
Junkyard Man watched Naomi as
she walked to school. He noticed
324
00:20:42,164 --> 00:20:45,226
her stop and stare at the new
sled in the toy store window.
325
00:20:46,107 --> 00:20:49,664
When he saw her head droop in
disappointment, Paul walked over
326
00:20:49,705 --> 00:20:52,866
and offered to help Naomi build
a sled from his junkyard parts
327
00:20:53,306 --> 00:20:54,387
if her mother agreed.
328
00:20:55,288 --> 00:20:59,250
When Naomi asked her mom, Julie,
she thought it was a grand idea.
329
00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:02,171
It will give you and Paul a
chance to become better friends,
330
00:21:02,171 --> 00:21:06,734
she said. Naomi wondered why her
mom wanted them to become better
331
00:21:06,794 --> 00:21:11,676
friends. Naomi and Paul finished
Naomi's junkyard sled the day
332
00:21:11,736 --> 00:21:15,158
before Christmas. Now she could
go sledding with her classmates.
333
00:21:15,859 --> 00:21:19,036
But when she got to the hill at
Fox Country Club, She saw her
334
00:21:19,116 --> 00:21:22,497
friends with their store-bought
sleds, and she stopped walking.
335
00:21:23,557 --> 00:21:27,098
She looked down at her junkyard
sled, and her head drooped
336
00:21:27,159 --> 00:21:31,800
again, embarrassed. Naomi
instead turned toward Bear
337
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,401
Canyon, where her classmates
wouldn't see her junkyard sled.
338
00:21:36,341 --> 00:21:39,282
She was walking with her head
down, and she didn't see the
339
00:21:39,342 --> 00:21:42,263
sign that said, Danger! Steep
cliff!
340
00:21:43,983 --> 00:21:48,176
Naomi got on her sled and pushed
to go down the hill. She didn't
341
00:21:48,256 --> 00:21:51,157
see the steep cliff soon enough
to stop. She fell to the bottom,
342
00:21:51,498 --> 00:21:55,239
but the magic twinkle in her
eyes saved her from harm. She
343
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,301
landed in the cold snow and
quickly fell asleep. When she
344
00:21:59,361 --> 00:22:01,121
did, she had another dream.
345
00:22:02,782 --> 00:22:05,423
She dreamed that she woke up,
but she was trapped in a jail of
346
00:22:05,463 --> 00:22:09,065
tall icicles built by the Frost
King. She wasn't completely
347
00:22:09,125 --> 00:22:13,106
alone, however. The Bighorn Ram
watched from a high perch on the
348
00:22:13,126 --> 00:22:16,708
cliff as Naomi fell. He bounded
down the icicle jail to help
349
00:22:16,748 --> 00:22:20,803
her. Two of his friends followed
him, Duchess, the sled dog, and
350
00:22:20,903 --> 00:22:21,984
Bella, the snow leopard.
351
00:22:22,944 --> 00:22:26,567
Kingston and the other animals'
eyes had that twinkle, too, and
352
00:22:26,587 --> 00:22:30,591
they each noticed the twinkle in
Naomi's eyes as she fell.
353
00:22:31,691 --> 00:22:34,734
Kingston lowered his strong ram
horns and broke a big hole in
354
00:22:34,714 --> 00:22:37,896
the icicles that imprisoned
Naomi. I still can't get out,
355
00:22:37,957 --> 00:22:41,059
Naomi said. Duchess and Bella
rushed in to help.
356
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,162
As Duchess pulled and Bella
pushed, Kingston whispered to
357
00:22:45,182 --> 00:22:49,025
them, She's the twinkle girl.
Who saves Christmas, just like
358
00:22:49,025 --> 00:22:53,986
in the legend. I saw it in her
eyes. Once Naomi and her
359
00:22:54,066 --> 00:22:57,407
junkyard sled were free, she
thanked the animals. They
360
00:22:57,467 --> 00:23:01,948
replied, hurry, the Frost King
is coming. Naomi looked up in
361
00:23:01,988 --> 00:23:06,529
alarm, and that's part of the
story.
362
00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:11,991
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: This book has
illustrations. Could you
363
00:23:12,091 --> 00:23:15,792
describe who did them and what
they produced?
364
00:23:16,996 --> 00:23:18,616
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: The
illustrations were done by
365
00:23:18,756 --> 00:23:24,838
Amelia Bernstein. Amelia is a
deaf woman who my wife,
366
00:23:25,238 --> 00:23:28,139
Christine Bartley-Williams,
who's an American Sign Language
367
00:23:28,179 --> 00:23:32,840
interpreter, she interpreted
Amelia's college degree at
368
00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:35,221
Chapman University for all four
years.
369
00:23:35,741 --> 00:23:39,802
Amelia is an animation artist.
She's worked for Disney. And I
370
00:23:39,842 --> 00:23:43,963
gave her photographs of Naomi. I
gave her photographs of bighorn
371
00:23:44,063 --> 00:23:49,845
rams. I gave her photographs of
our dog. Duchess, and she drew
372
00:23:50,045 --> 00:23:51,546
all of the illustrations in the
book.
373
00:23:52,246 --> 00:23:54,947
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: I enjoyed the
illustrations I saw.
374
00:23:56,388 --> 00:23:57,008
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: They're a lot
of fun.
375
00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:04,231
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Overall, how do
you fit authorship into your
376
00:24:04,311 --> 00:24:06,072
day-to-day life and career?
377
00:24:08,373 --> 00:24:10,654
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It doesn't
really fit into my day-to-day
378
00:24:10,714 --> 00:24:13,335
life and career. I have to
really make a point to take time
379
00:24:13,475 --> 00:24:18,010
out in order to write. Anything
other than legal things, because
380
00:24:18,010 --> 00:24:19,331
that's what I do most of the
time.
381
00:24:20,972 --> 00:24:23,435
And I occasionally get the
opportunity to go do a book
382
00:24:23,495 --> 00:24:27,318
reading or like this, a podcast.
So it's just a moment in time
383
00:24:27,579 --> 00:24:31,042
and generally get back to being
a lawyer and being a dad and
384
00:24:31,382 --> 00:24:33,664
grandfather and all the other
crazy things I do.
385
00:24:35,906 --> 00:24:41,211
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: What do you see
as the benefits to being an
386
00:24:41,352 --> 00:24:41,712
author?
387
00:24:45,848 --> 00:24:48,194
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: For the sled,
for me, it was the opportunity
388
00:24:48,214 --> 00:24:51,942
to give lifelong present to my
granddaughter. You know, we all
389
00:24:52,223 --> 00:24:54,789
at some point in time will die
in the future, and I'm sure I
390
00:24:54,809 --> 00:24:59,229
will too. But my granddaughter
will live long after I'm gone.
391
00:24:59,469 --> 00:25:03,673
And this is an opportunity for
her to know me and know that I
392
00:25:03,693 --> 00:25:06,635
loved her and that she has
someone with her all the time.
393
00:25:06,696 --> 00:25:09,598
And that really this book I
wrote for her to tell her, show
394
00:25:09,698 --> 00:25:14,102
her that she can do anything. If
she can save Christmas, she can
395
00:25:14,102 --> 00:25:21,729
do anything. So, you know, the
other books, it gave, I think,
396
00:25:22,189 --> 00:25:22,950
writing a book.
397
00:25:23,438 --> 00:25:25,760
And publishing it as a lawyer
gives you a little bit more
398
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,262
credibility to your clients that
you're a published author. I
399
00:25:29,282 --> 00:25:34,686
think it helps your bottom line
resume. But more for me, it
400
00:25:34,786 --> 00:25:37,969
gives me the chance to sit down
and really delve into something
401
00:25:38,009 --> 00:25:39,170
I enjoy, which is trials.
402
00:25:41,812 --> 00:25:47,095
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: And you get to
think about sort of larger
403
00:25:47,295 --> 00:25:53,156
issues rather than did your
client. Jump the fence into the
404
00:25:53,596 --> 00:25:57,859
prison guard's recreation room.
405
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,423
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Right. Yeah,
it does. It gives me a moment to
406
00:26:02,483 --> 00:26:07,247
kind of drop out of practicing
law and still use my skills that
407
00:26:07,327 --> 00:26:09,509
I've learned in practicing law
to be able to write.
408
00:26:12,671 --> 00:26:16,955
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: If you were to
write something right now, would
409
00:26:16,995 --> 00:26:21,230
it be a legal thing or would it
be another children's book? Or
410
00:26:21,531 --> 00:26:25,314
would it be geared towards an
adult audience?
411
00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:29,258
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Well, I've
got two books in the works. I
412
00:26:29,238 --> 00:26:31,760
don't have a name for the
children's book that I'm
413
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:37,485
writing. And the episodes about
the podcast and the book are
414
00:26:38,346 --> 00:26:43,391
going to continue on with that
kind of genre. But my goal is to
415
00:26:43,431 --> 00:26:46,954
really sit down and write a
novel. And to write a... Perhaps
416
00:26:46,954 --> 00:26:50,456
a legal mystery novel with a few
twists and turns in it that most
417
00:26:50,496 --> 00:26:51,896
people won't anticipate.
418
00:26:52,236 --> 00:26:54,677
I've enjoyed reading John
Grisham's work. I've enjoyed
419
00:26:54,737 --> 00:26:58,399
watching the movies that get
made from his work. And I think
420
00:26:58,659 --> 00:27:02,101
I might get to that point. They
say that you finally become
421
00:27:02,441 --> 00:27:04,782
well-known as an author when
you've published 10 books. So
422
00:27:05,782 --> 00:27:07,663
I've got three and I'm on my
way.
423
00:27:08,803 --> 00:27:11,725
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: You're halfway
there with three and two.
424
00:27:12,725 --> 00:27:13,165
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Almost.
425
00:27:14,306 --> 00:27:18,351
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah.
Congratulations on what you've
426
00:27:18,431 --> 00:27:21,272
produced and what you will
continue to produce.
427
00:27:21,772 --> 00:27:22,212
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: Thank you,
Dan.
428
00:27:24,953 --> 00:27:27,493
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I've kind
of run out of questions. I think
429
00:27:27,533 --> 00:27:32,735
we can draw this podcast to a
conclusion unless you'd like to
430
00:27:32,835 --> 00:27:33,795
say something else.
431
00:27:34,755 --> 00:27:36,456
J. CRAIG WILLIAMS: It's been an
absolute pleasure to talk with
432
00:27:36,476 --> 00:27:38,116
you and be on your show. Thank
you very much.
433
00:27:38,376 --> 00:27:42,757
DAN MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you very
much. And that's another episode
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of Authors Reads. If you are an
author and have a poem or a
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00:27:50,583 --> 00:27:57,145
short story or excerpt of a
non-fiction work that you'd like
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00:27:57,225 --> 00:28:07,188
to get out there, please contact
me at djng at earthlink.net. If
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00:28:07,228 --> 00:28:12,329
you would like me to forward a
question on to my guest,
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00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:23,606
please... Email me at djng at
earthlink.net. But that's it for
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00:28:23,727 --> 00:28:28,834
this time. Thanks for listening.
Bye-bye now.
