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Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the Authority Builder Podcast, and today I'm joined by Nadine.
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Nadine Nethery is the human-first customer experience and retention strategist for savvy online business owners like you, who are done chasing new leads at all cost.
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Your customers notice when a brand genuinely gets them, and Nadine is here to make sure that yours does.
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So she's the person you call on when you're sick of working harder for less and want to finally maximize your return on inve- investment for every lead.
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And this is something that we know a lot about because we focus very highly on finding leads here at Kaffeen and with our clients.
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it's my favorite, work experiment, is trying out new ways to find leads.
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But of course, there is, the other side of that is making sure once you've got them, you're maximizing the investment you get.
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So, welcome, Nadine.
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It's lovely to have you here today Yes.
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Thank you so much for having me, Charlotte.
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so good to connect and talk all things, retention, leads, audience research, and how that all connects.
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And I know you started as a copywriter about 10 years ago after being- Mm-hmm made redundant from your corporate comms role.
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Can you walk me through the pivot from writing copy to what you do now, which I know, as we mentioned already, is helping online business owners connect all those moving pieces.
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So when did that shift actually happen for you?
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Yeah, so it, happened somewhat organically.
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So initially, when I started out after redundancy, what it's like, new business owner.
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Yeah.
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You do everything for everyone and take on any client to do any work to- Yeah pay your bills, right?
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but I pretty quickly worked out that the customers that I worked with that got the best results out of my copy and the messaging and the strategies that we put together, they were looking at the bigger picture.
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So they didn't just come to me for, a landing page or a standalone welcome- Yeah sequence or nurture sequence, and they were just as obsessed about the customer and really understanding the customer, as I was.
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So- Yeah while I started out, as I said, as, copywriter, taking orders, giving people what they wanted, I pretty quickly- Yeah worked out that my strength, which is my Clifton Strength, assessment- Yes, I did that I did that around the time as well.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, so I quickly worked out that my secret weapon as a copywriter was really connecting all the moving pieces and that- Mm bigger picture, visualizing what's possible, the creative and strategic combination behind the scenes.
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Yeah.
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So I really became obsessed with, what came before the copy.
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Yeah.
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So that was audience research, and going really deep on the customer to then- Oh, I love that bit.
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That's my favorite bit is customer listening.
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I lo- it's just so- I know, right?
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full of juicy insights, and I just love it so much.
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I'm just so obsessed with it.
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Mm.
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And, the funny thing is once my customers were on the receiving end of, this juicy survey that uncovered just so many golden nuggets for- Yeah pretty much anything in their business, they were hooked as well.
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Yeah but yeah, so it evolved from, a curiosity on my part to then realizing just the power and the potential behind it, and, yeah, and then I organically moved into, like, connecting all the moving pieces.
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So once we had converted that lead into a customer, what was that next step?
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Like, what funnel?
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I hate the term technically, but what- Yeah strategic, customer journey could lead people to that next purchase?
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Yeah.
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or, like, organically directing them towards that next logical choice for them.
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a, a good niche to be in because I feel like we get distracted with all of the things we could be doing and- Mm over what we should be doing and what people are asking us to do, what our clients are literally saying,"We need this." So you said in the past a lot of your clients are doing a bit of everything, but not anything properly.
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So they've got membership here, digital program there, some one-to-one.
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as we've mentioned, it's easy to get distracted when in, especially in online business and coaching.
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So what's usually going wrong when somebody lands with you in that state, when they've been doing a bit of everything, but not 100%?
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Mm.
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Yeah, they, they take offers individually, I feel.
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So they are very focused on that next launch and how to get people to buy.
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But, they never look at the bigger picture and how it all connects.
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And so how I look at your offer suite and your business is that bigger picture, and how you can actually put your customer behind the steering wheel- Yeah of their customer journey.
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So via clever automations, via, email marketing where you're actually tracking what people are clicking on, what they're engaging with, counting how many times people actually land on the sales page, taking signals from that for potentially your future launch, your next launch.
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So just helping my clients, yeah, be more strategic and intentional about how their offers fit together.
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And if someone doesn't buy this time round, that doesn't mean they're not, the perfect fit customer.
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It just might me- might mean you have to funnel them down a different avenue until they're ready to buy.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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Your signature product.
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Yeah, I think it's really easy for us to give up on, somebody or even a service if it's not being bought immediately, and not- Mm recognizing how long the, that journey does take from, well, the know, like, and trust journey, basically.
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W- how long it takes from somebody coming into your world to actually purchasing.
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And just, we...
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it's, it sounds l- I know it's not this, I know it's, like, lack of self-confidence, et cetera, but it can seem really self-absorbed when we make really rash decisions really quickly and make it all about us.
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Like,"They don't like it, I'm giving up," And not actually realizing that, no, it's just what else is going on in their business- Mm what stage they're at, what season they're at, how long they need to be hearing this, how much repetition they need before they're willing to buy, what evidence they need, et cetera.
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There's just so many other factors and, we can seem a little self-absorbed when we make rash decisions, but it's actually coming from a place of insecurity.
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And, you've said that everything you do starts with a strategic audience survey.
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So for somebody who's never done this, what does a good survey actually uncover that a business owner can't get from sitting and thinking about it?
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Mm.
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a strategic audience survey starts with the goal.
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So I feel often my clients, those who have actually done a survey at some point, they, throw a whole bunch of tick boxes and drop-downs at people, and then work with, again, their assumptions, right?
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Like, if you're asking people,"Why didn't you buy from me?" and you give them money, time, like, not the right fit, you are removing that ability for people to actually tell you what's going on.
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Yeah.
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So, always starting with the goal.
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Like, what do you really want to find out?
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Is it to help you shape an offer, for example?
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Do you wanna find out the perfect format, the messaging, bonuses to include, objections that are holding people back from buying, potential messaging gaps that you need to close before people are actually ready to consider your product?
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Yeah.
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There are so many, yeah, important considerations before you throw that survey out there.
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and I feel mapping it out strategically should take a lot more time than, even analyzing the results at the end.
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Like, do it strategically.
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You get one shot at it.
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Yeah.
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And, the outcome, as we touched on before, is just so powerful for your offers, your messaging, pretty much any decision you make in your business.
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And nowadays, 2026, right, it's even the foundation for your AI brief.
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So if you want your AI to work better for you when it comes to content creation, copywriting, I know we all, tapping into AI to write things for us, the more first-hand insights you have, the better- Yeah the AI output is going to be.
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So, yeah, super critical.
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And I know that your whole point of difference right now is amplifying the human elements of a brand while everyone else outsources their thinking to AI.
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So where is that line for you?
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You've just mentioned it a couple of times.
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You clearly, you clearly use AI heavily, so how do you use it without letting it flatten everything to middle of the road, same, same messaging that doesn't mean anything to anyone?
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Yeah, so in my business I personally throw manual tasks, repetitive tasks at, AI.
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Yeah.
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I also love AI for Oh, my God, I just did it this morning.
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Like, helping me make sense of Airtable automations- Oh, my God and, oh, my God.
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Oh, my G- it, it builds my Airtables now.
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It's so- How good is it, right?
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It's amazing.
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Yeah.
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Or rather I Sorry, I'm interrupting you, but I have- Yeah, no found that, like, I'm curious to see what you do, but, like, I talk to Claude about what I want, and then- Mm Claude tells me how to brief Airtable's AI, so then that builds it for me.
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So you do it in Airtable?
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yeah.
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That's good.
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Yeah.
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I do, I do I brief Claude on how to I, I tell it exactly what I want.
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Mm-hmm.
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I can It has all the knowledge of how my systems are set up in the back end, like, where my folders are, et cetera, what kind of data I already have, has insights into my Airtable.
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But then I get it to give me the brief for Airtable's own AI, because- I find that then, it just builds so much more fluidly, has been my experience of it.
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But it, it just- Mm requires less amends afterwards.
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But, yeah, I'm curious, like- Yep how, how that's looking for you.
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Yeah.
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So I, I actually get Claude to build it for me.
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So I don't work with the Airtable AI.
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Oh, interesting.
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And it's been amazing.
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Good.
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Like, I just, I'm hosting my first virtual bundle kind of event- Yeah like a fun way to round up the year.
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And, I just thought,"Oh, God, I can't be arsed to build the base from scratch." Yeah.
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And I want a leaderboard, and, tracking affiliate, referrals- Yeah.
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Yeah how many, leads everyone brought in.
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I also want participants to be able to get rewards for bringing in people.
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Yeah.
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So I got Airtable to build me, for example, a trackable unique code that I can give people when they sign up to the event to then share, but then also track how many people.
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It's, it's just mind-blowing.
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Yeah.
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Like, that would've taken me hours.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I reckon I went back and forth half an hour, and it's all done.
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The leaderboard.
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It's just Oh, my God.
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So good.
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Yeah.
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The space it frees up in your brain is incredible, to be able to- Yeah execute on so many- Mm other ideas.
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For me, it's not about, well, now I can clock off early.
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It's like what else that has been on my to-do list for ages business-wise?
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What other value?
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Yeah.
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What other thing can I do?
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And it's, Yeah, it To me it's I know as the, the week we're talking, there's a lot in the media, around the Anthropic researcher who's talking about- Mm the, the dangers of AI.
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But in terms of my own business, it's enabled me to be able to do so much more, and I'm super grateful for its role within my business, for sure.
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Mm I do think we give our clients so much more as a result.
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Oh, absolutely.
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It's, yeah, as I said, manual tasks, like analys- an- analyzing things, for example.
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my data, trends- Yes things like that, it's amazing.
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Or even make automations to, check Airtable against my email platform- Yeah and then send out a automation based on tags.
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it's just, yeah.
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Anyway- Yeah I could talk for hours.
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Mm-hmm.
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But yeah, it just, opens up so much more time, as you said, for other things.
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And, so coming back to that amplifying the human experience, I have really fallen in love with interactive tools inside my business.
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Yeah.
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So again, freeing up time so I can then create things for my, for my clients and my customers.
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So particularly inside my membership, I've really- Yeah leaned into interactive dashboards and tools where people can engage with the strategies that I'm giving them.
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But sometimes- Yeah I just, like, people watch a video, they're still none the wiser sometimes how it applies to them.
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Yeah.
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So just giving them the ability to pick up where my video walkthrough left off- Yeah, yeah and then actually create something they can take and run with.
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So that has been amazing.
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I've even designed a, audience survey builder.
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So briefed on my framework that I do- Yeah inside my one-on-one client projects are where I build surveys for my clients.
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Yeah.
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Where, yeah, based on some input, the, the offer, the audience, the type of person they want to audit, whether it's existing customers, past customers, what incentive they wanna give for people to, to respond.
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And the tool gives them a list of questions based on my framework they can run with, which again, removes that friction.
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Yeah.
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People actually do it.
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Yeah.
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They, yeah, have my framework to help them put that together, and then, the next step is bringing those audience survey results to me so we can discuss it together, identify the trends, and discuss what that means for their business.
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So again, it's not replacing human interaction with me.
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Yeah.
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It is just making sure they take that first step that is so critical, they get the results, the aha moments, and then it opens up the conversation.
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That's what I've found.
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people to do things that otherwise they might avoid, I think is one- Mm of the biggest, the biggest, yeah, reasons for it.
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And, just coming back to surveys and customer conversations, I know from my experience of doing them with, with my clients and also within my own business.
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Mm-hmm.
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I know I would admit to feeling deeply uncomfortable about it, but it does make a lot of people feel deeply uncomfortable.
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and you called it uncomfortable on its own at the best of times.
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So why do you think it is- Yeah and how do you get clients over the hump of actually asking, beyond, enabling them with these interactive tools that you've built to help them take those first steps?
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Yes, a lot of clients, actually, as you said, love the fact that they don't have to dig through the actual raw data.
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So I can- Yeah be the filter and sugarcoat a few things that potentially can be a bit confronting because we all know, right?
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Like, people are honest, particularly when it feels like a survey comes from someone else.
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Completely.
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Yeah.
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where they have a bit of a buffer.
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So, Yeah I had a client recently who came to me for exactly this purpose.
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She said she's somewhat sensitive, and, has assumptions and knows that certain things might come up, but she just wanted someone to look through it and then put it into the bigger context without that emotional attachment, to the data.
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Yeah.
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And same thing here.
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So in my membership, I'm like,"You send out the data," and then, like, I have a follow-up tool that helps them identify the first patterns based on the raw data to, again- Yeah just remove that friction.
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so it helps- Yeah them identify all the things we touched on, like objections, pain points, desires.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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They then come to that with me, and if we are curious somewhere, we can dig deeper together in our- Yeah kind of one-on-one session.
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So yeah, it can be confronting, but I totally believe even the worst feedback has so much potential in your business to make you a better business owner, to actually turn your office into something that help people and get people results.
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I think there's just such a huge penalty to not asking.
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Like, I know it's- Mm painful.
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I find it really uncomfortable.
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I have- Yeah automations and external providers, for higher level customer survey conversations that I use, so they clients can speak knowing that it's it's not to me, it is completely, independent of me, and they can be frank, which is exactly what I want.
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I, I feel so deeply uncomfortable about getting feedback.
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But I know, I know how valuable it is to my business.
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It's not just- Mm you get, testimonials out of it.
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You get quantifiable results that you m- may not have otherwise got.
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Mm.
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You get ideas about how to shape your marketing, how to shape your products.
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Like, when we were rewriting our entire website, the customer listening that we'd done, consolidated customer listening over a number of years, basically helped us to It completely wrote the website because then we knew we were speaking in the words that our clients use.
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And, the, the thing that I hear the most when I first get on a chemistry call with somebody is, like, them saying,"I listened to your podcast and it's like you're inside my head.
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exactly what I'm thinking." I was like,"That's because I asked." Mm.
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"And you told me, and then I repeated the words back to you." It's not, like, I'm Y- It's just so powerful when you do it because, so few people do.
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And I just think it's Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I will sit here all day long and say it's- Yeah it's the most valuable thing in your business, as long as you're willing to do it.
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Mm.
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So- And I feel your customers, they, they feel valued as well if they- Oh, completely not just that you're actually acting on it.
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Like, in my, membership, I always say, like,"Let me know anything I can help you with." Yeah.
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"Anything that doesn't quite work for you, let me know-" Yeah and I'll act on it." And, like, they could be little things, like someone says,"Oh, I never find the link to submit my monthly execution.
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Like, I w- I wish" Yeah you put that into the email that comes up" Yeah every month because then I" Yeah don't have to log into the portal." I'm like,"Of course.
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Oh my God, how didn't I think of that?" So simple.
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Yeah.
00:18:01.697 --> 00:18:04.977
And, this member's going- Yeah"Oh, I told her something.
00:18:05.007 --> 00:18:08.247
Next email, this link magically is there." Yeah.
00:18:08.247 --> 00:18:14.947
So the h- relationship between you and your customers is taken to another level if they- Completely take it seriously.
00:18:14.947 --> 00:18:19.717
As long as Yeah, as long as you're willing to be curious and not defensive.
00:18:19.767 --> 00:18:20.126
Mm.
00:18:20.626 --> 00:18:21.217
Exactly.
00:18:21.767 --> 00:18:22.396
Totally.
00:18:22.457 --> 00:18:35.047
so y- you made a fascinating observation when we spoke previously that the same people who are quietly ashamed to admit a human copywriter helped them three years ago are now proudly selling their AI copy prompts.
00:18:35.067 --> 00:18:37.126
So what do you make of that shift?
00:18:37.126 --> 00:18:38.646
What do How does that sit with you?
00:18:39.616 --> 00:18:41.257
Yeah, it's just curious.
00:18:41.326 --> 00:18:44.477
copywriting, as a profession has changed a lot.
00:18:44.606 --> 00:18:44.737
Mm-hmm.
00:18:44.826 --> 00:18:46.646
I feel like there's still work out there.
00:18:46.777 --> 00:18:50.977
There's still enough people that value strategic copy.
00:18:51.106 --> 00:19:05.767
and I feel like give it another year or so maybe, and people might come back round and actually appreciate the amount of strategy and thought process and- Mm-hmm research, as we said, that goes into it- Yeah that AI simply can't give you.
00:19:05.767 --> 00:19:20.697
So, yeah, it's just such a curious, obviously, ob- observation where people, yeah, wouldn't credit their copywriter on their website, but, then are selling prompts and telling you how they wrote a landing page in two minutes with X, Y, Z- Yeah process.
00:19:20.707 --> 00:19:22.557
So, yeah, it's interesting times.
00:19:22.557 --> 00:19:38.411
I just feel while AI is helpful with content creation and speeding things up, the real threat here is a widening, customer intelligence gap that then is amplified via AI.
00:19:38.421 --> 00:20:04.101
Because if you pair, mediocre briefs and assumptions- Yeah with AI, AI is, in a matter of minutes, scaling, Yeah those bad assumptions, and that means you're making decisions around your offer, your launch, your messaging based on those assumptions, and it's so hard- Yeah to backtrack once- Yeah you have made all those changes because, two minutes, and AI now can tweak that for you on your website too.
00:20:04.750 --> 00:20:24.441
So, just really being careful because, yeah, there's just that, that danger that you go far down a rabbit hole, and it's so hard to then make sense of anything that AI's given you, which actually, what came from your customers, which- Yes it's just this big mess, so- Yeah yeah- And throw hallucination in and- Yeah, right?
00:20:25.030 --> 00:20:25.290
Yeah.
00:20:25.290 --> 00:20:26.361
It's like, do the groundwork.
00:20:26.381 --> 00:20:39.730
Do your- Yeah own research, your own thinking, your- Yeah own strategizing, and then if you want to use AI to work with the brief, the audience research, the intel- Mm-hmm the message mining you've given AI, go for it.
00:20:39.891 --> 00:20:46.790
Just don't skip that important step where you are just outsourcing all the thought processes and strategies.
00:20:46.851 --> 00:20:51.551
I just think it comes down to ensuring the quality of your inputs.
00:20:51.571 --> 00:20:53.250
You cannot- Mm shortcut on that.
00:20:53.381 --> 00:20:59.790
You can use AI to accelerate everything, but the inputs always have to be of the highest quality and human.
00:20:59.901 --> 00:21:02.740
Otherwise, when I say inputs, I don't just mean the prompt.
00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:13.790
all of the, the, the data that goes into the prompt, be that qual or quan or, intention, a bigger focus of the- Yeah business is just And this is where customer listening plugs back in, right?
00:21:13.790 --> 00:21:26.121
But it's- Mm yeah, crucial that that is of the highest quality and the most expansive that it can be in order that AI can move that forward at scale with, at a quality, level.
00:21:26.371 --> 00:21:26.520
Mm.
00:21:26.530 --> 00:21:28.740
So b- I'm curious about your own business.
00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:33.321
Beyond word of mouth and repeat business, you lean hard on strategic speaking.
00:21:33.331 --> 00:21:38.441
So I'm curious what that phrase like, what about that phrase rather, what makes it strategic for you?
00:21:38.441 --> 00:21:49.990
How do you actually choose which summits and stages are worth a yes now that hundreds the old hundreds of survi- subscribers- of OneGig era has faded out, and it's not really a thing- Yeah so much anymore?
00:21:50.490 --> 00:21:53.831
Yeah, I'm very, very discerning around, the pitch I get.
00:21:53.831 --> 00:22:00.321
So, it's probably a 50/50 where I pitch myself for speaking opportunities, and then 50% is people approaching me.
00:22:00.591 --> 00:22:00.841
Yeah.
00:22:01.010 --> 00:22:03.780
So a lot of it comes down to trust.
00:22:03.891 --> 00:22:07.891
Ideally, I know the person already, which is always ideal, right?
00:22:07.891 --> 00:22:12.881
that their- Yeah values are aligned, their audience is similar to who you want to talk to.
00:22:13.431 --> 00:22:31.441
I'm a bit vain when it comes to branding, so if I can get a sense of how this summit or, virtual event is going to be, represented online- Yeah I do know for a fact that good design, good UX on the landing page, on the sign-up page, all plays a huge role.
00:22:31.990 --> 00:22:33.411
So that comes into it.
00:22:33.461 --> 00:22:37.371
and then yeah, definitely very picky around topic alignment.
00:22:37.371 --> 00:22:39.270
So if it's a summit that...
00:22:40.191 --> 00:22:48.000
Just trying to think here, Is about, AI automation and, plugging, everything into AI to replace humans, obviously that's not the right fit for me.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:57.730
So- yeah really strategic about people being interested in what I have to say and- Yeah my approach to, yeah, to this particular topic.
00:22:58.561 --> 00:23:04.711
And do you, do you sp- how much time do you spend looking for, or how do you, how do you even find those?
00:23:04.831 --> 00:23:13.641
I'm, I'm just curious'cause I'm like- Yeah I know people come to me with opportunities, but then going out there and just really understanding it is always feels like such a mammoth task.
00:23:13.881 --> 00:23:14.181
Mm.
00:23:14.471 --> 00:23:19.881
and I, I, I, I've done lots of speaking in the past, but I always feel like- Well, I'm not in control of that.
00:23:19.881 --> 00:23:24.211
I'd rather be doing something that I'm in control of that- Yeah I know my time is gonna repay me on.
00:23:24.211 --> 00:23:30.141
So like how do you make sure that- Mm you're, doing that in a way that is productive and efficient?
00:23:31.111 --> 00:23:31.661
Mm.
00:23:31.790 --> 00:23:35.951
I do have a few topics that I can recycle.
00:23:36.421 --> 00:23:36.701
Yeah.
00:23:36.701 --> 00:23:45.151
Not necessarily 100%, but- Yeah I'll record like a new intro specific to the event, and then I can, yeah, recycle the talk.
00:23:45.591 --> 00:23:47.510
So yeah, that's important.
00:23:47.510 --> 00:23:53.161
If it's a really awesome event that I know is going to be perfect fit, I'll record something brand new.
00:23:53.571 --> 00:23:53.851
Yeah.
00:23:53.911 --> 00:23:57.641
But, yeah, I wouldn't say I'm spending hours and hours, opportunities.
00:23:57.651 --> 00:24:07.401
Usually- Yeah they pop up in communities that I'm a part of- Yeah or someone, drops my name, as an introduction, as in,"Nadine would be awesome too." Right.
00:24:07.411 --> 00:24:07.431
Yeah.
00:24:07.621 --> 00:24:15.471
So luckily it's, it's starting to shift more towards people reaching out to me, rather than me- And are you ever doing that in person, or does it tend to be online?
00:24:16.051 --> 00:24:18.081
Yeah, most things are online.
00:24:18.510 --> 00:24:22.071
I did my first panel speaking event in Sydney here.
00:24:22.071 --> 00:24:23.290
So Sydney's a bit funny.
00:24:23.341 --> 00:24:23.641
I don't know.
00:24:23.681 --> 00:24:28.790
There's not that much happening when it comes to business events, which is a bit of a shame.
00:24:28.801 --> 00:24:33.211
But, yes, I have only done one panel, speaking opportunity earlier this year.
00:24:34.111 --> 00:24:38.480
But yeah, a lot is, a lot is online, and then the complexity is too, the time zone difference.
00:24:38.490 --> 00:24:39.341
So, Yes.
00:24:39.471 --> 00:24:41.750
Yeah sometimes the live opportunities you can't be part of.
00:24:41.780 --> 00:24:47.780
Like one, one time I was super keen to host a live session for, Showit and their community.
00:24:47.961 --> 00:24:48.270
Yeah.
00:24:48.311 --> 00:24:52.911
And they were very rigid on time slot when it had to happen, so I actually got up at 2:00 AM.
00:24:53.411 --> 00:24:54.641
Because I was so keen.
00:24:54.641 --> 00:24:56.941
I'm like,"I want this logo on my website." yeah.
00:24:56.941 --> 00:25:02.201
and it was totally worth it, but, yeah, I'm like to get me up at 2:00 AM you have to be someone pretty special.
00:25:02.701 --> 00:25:05.131
I'm not sure you'd be getting the best of me at 2:00 AM, that's for sure.
00:25:05.181 --> 00:25:07.770
Oh, it, it was a bit rough, but anyway.
00:25:08.701 --> 00:25:11.601
So I, I want you to tell me about your Retention Games Summit.
00:25:11.601 --> 00:25:14.711
It's like The Hunger Games style event where the audience voted.
00:25:14.961 --> 00:25:20.461
So where did that come from- Mm and what did going interactive do that a normal summit couldn't for you?
00:25:21.317 --> 00:25:21.687
Yeah.
00:25:21.687 --> 00:25:28.267
So, if, for people who know me, I am all about out of the box, doing things unconventionally.
00:25:28.437 --> 00:25:49.757
So probably, again, going back to strength here, like I'm that strategic compared with creative, and when there's an opportunity to do something that is so overdone or, people have a certain expectation around in a way that disrupts the pattern, that is just, yeah, shaped in a way that people are paying attention to, I'm all for it.
00:25:50.277 --> 00:25:57.037
So I knew I wanted to run a virtual event, like a virtual summit style event, but- Yeah also working with...
00:25:57.047 --> 00:26:04.027
I've worked with, like one of the leading, coaches in that space who helps people run virtual summits, so I know there's a lot of same, same.
00:26:04.027 --> 00:26:12.836
People are following the same pattern, and, personally also I was getting rather fatigued of 50 sessions thrown at me that I consume.
00:26:12.846 --> 00:26:12.866
Yeah.
00:26:12.866 --> 00:26:17.126
I download a freebie, and I'm still none the wiser because they're so middle of the road.
00:26:17.307 --> 00:26:17.737
Yeah.
00:26:18.207 --> 00:26:18.404
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:18.404 --> 00:26:18.602
I agree.
00:26:18.602 --> 00:26:19.967
That it's just such a waste of time, right?
00:26:20.177 --> 00:26:20.477
I'm quite jaded.
00:26:20.477 --> 00:26:25.447
And I just don't have the time or head space, and often I sign up and then don't consume anything.
00:26:26.057 --> 00:26:34.076
So I just wanted to make it interactive because I didn't want people to just, again, sign up, with the best intentions and not do anything.
00:26:34.086 --> 00:26:47.376
So I, yeah, came up with this competition style event where, competitors or contestants, as I called them, so the speakers could win prizes and, be rewarded for putting their best foot forward.
00:26:47.777 --> 00:26:47.917
Mm-hmm.
00:26:47.927 --> 00:26:52.896
And the attendees also could win prizes for voting for their favorite session.
00:26:52.896 --> 00:26:59.517
So it literally was, like the qualifying rounds, then it was, went down to top 10 contestant strategies.
00:26:59.547 --> 00:27:09.297
People again voted for their favorites, top three, and then there was an overall winner, and for every vote, people placed, they went in the running to win prizes.
00:27:09.787 --> 00:27:13.576
And yeah, the contestants were super invested, which was funny.
00:27:13.586 --> 00:27:31.197
when people, and all of a sudden there's this competitive streak coming out- and they're like posting and posting again,"I'm in the top 10, you need to vote for me." So it really started this beautiful interactive experience where everyone kept checking in, like every round they were curious to see who made it.
00:27:31.247 --> 00:27:32.297
I had a live leaderboard.
00:27:32.307 --> 00:27:33.586
Again, thanks Airtable.
00:27:34.157 --> 00:27:40.836
so people felt emotionally invested, and then once you had voted for someone, obviously you wanted them to do well.
00:27:41.457 --> 00:27:44.537
So yeah, it was just out of the box.
00:27:44.557 --> 00:27:45.297
people were...
00:27:45.677 --> 00:27:46.736
Everyone was having fun.
00:27:46.777 --> 00:27:56.846
I had daily live updates from the commentary box where, announced the, next round contestants and- It just felt like fun.
00:27:57.247 --> 00:28:01.896
And, Yeah the feedback just like that as well, so big on feedback as I, as we've explored.
00:28:01.896 --> 00:28:09.346
So I had a, survey after for attendees and contestants, and all of them were, just saying how cool it was.
00:28:09.366 --> 00:28:15.317
Just different and, how everyone felt part of something bigger, which is- Yeah very rare, right?
00:28:15.346 --> 00:28:18.376
Like, I don't know- the last time I attended something where I felt invested.
00:28:18.927 --> 00:28:20.106
Yeah, completely.
00:28:20.136 --> 00:28:21.096
No, I, I- Mm.
00:28:21.697 --> 00:28:28.896
It's another example of originality in the era of same, same, same- Mm that stands out- Exactly and feels different to people.
00:28:29.447 --> 00:28:37.267
So now I'm just thinking a bit more about your, funnel, and I know that's a, a term that, I'm using loosely there because it's not one word.
00:28:37.277 --> 00:28:37.586
Yeah.
00:28:38.086 --> 00:28:40.076
But but can you help me trace it end to end?
00:28:40.076 --> 00:28:43.807
So I know you've got the survey builder freebie, and we'll include the link to that in the show notes.
00:28:43.947 --> 00:28:43.977
Mm-hmm.
00:28:44.027 --> 00:28:45.567
Because I've used it, and I thought it was fab.
00:28:46.017 --> 00:28:51.417
And then there's your high touch membership, and then there's a behavior driven evergreen funnel.
00:28:51.437 --> 00:28:54.017
Like, how do all the pieces feed each other?
00:28:54.207 --> 00:28:54.217
Mm.
00:28:54.217 --> 00:28:59.136
And what's the philosophy behind- Yeah, AI helps me take action but doesn't replace me.
00:28:59.586 --> 00:29:00.346
Yeah.
00:29:00.407 --> 00:29:09.177
Yeah, so I, as I said, I'm big on the subscriber, so you- Yeah who took the survey and is now on my list, deciding your own path.
00:29:09.277 --> 00:29:14.096
So I have weekly emails that go out that touch on certain things.
00:29:14.136 --> 00:29:20.116
I have evergreen emails in case I go on holidays or I'm not available or- Yeah heavens forbid, I fall ill.
00:29:20.606 --> 00:29:29.157
So there's things happening in the background at all times that don't necessarily push a hard sell, but they, have trigger links within them.
00:29:29.167 --> 00:29:29.187
Mm-hmm.
00:29:29.197 --> 00:29:46.567
So I am huge on data, paying attention to how you engage with my content, and based on the signals that you're sending me and what you're engaging with in those emails that are going out, I- Yeah might decide to add you to a nurture sequence, for example.
00:29:46.576 --> 00:29:58.336
So if, you click on my Retention Lab sales page six times, that's a pretty good indication that something, you're interested, you are checking it out.
00:29:58.346 --> 00:30:02.467
Something might be missing from that bigger picture for you to actually decide to join.
00:30:02.997 --> 00:30:03.146
Yeah.
00:30:03.167 --> 00:30:05.576
so yeah, I might add you into that funnel.
00:30:05.626 --> 00:30:08.886
Again, inside the funnel I'll track how you're engaging with that.
00:30:09.277 --> 00:30:19.927
Potentially, if you're sending me the right signals, I might even send you a personal video- Mm-hmm to just reach out, start a conversation, seeing whether there's anything I can help you with.
00:30:20.396 --> 00:30:22.876
If you don't buy, totally okay.
00:30:22.937 --> 00:30:29.457
I'll just add you back into my regular programming, and that's the process I like to embrace in my business.
00:30:29.467 --> 00:30:49.826
So rather than constantly selling the same thing to everyone, I let you tell me or send me signals that you're- Yeah interested in something, and then I'll hopefully give you the information to decide whether now's the right time or maybe not, which is fine, and give you that push, and that's worked really well for me, and it, again, feeds into that retention piece.
00:30:49.836 --> 00:30:59.657
So, your, like, your business changes, your goals change, so what better way to let you decide, Yeah if you buy.
00:30:59.657 --> 00:31:05.907
Like, just let you decide where you go down, like, which path you go down and what, what you receive.
00:31:05.997 --> 00:31:09.739
yeah, it's just- It's a feelgood way to sell, I feel.
00:31:09.778 --> 00:31:12.399
Like, I don't feel like I'm constantly selling at you.
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:14.699
I just know- Yeah there's things happening in the background.
00:31:14.729 --> 00:31:26.048
Obviously they need to be set up, but once they're set up they just work beautifully and, then I tweak them obviously based on new, new things, new feedback, new- Yeah custom modules.
00:31:26.048 --> 00:31:36.058
So it's never 100% done, but, yeah, I feel like you can always keep an eye on how, how it's working, what's not working, and then improve it as you go along.
00:31:36.808 --> 00:31:40.548
And in terms of your behavior driven evergreen funnel, are you...
00:31:40.578 --> 00:31:42.639
Like, what, what are the tools that actually go into that?
00:31:42.639 --> 00:31:43.439
Are you on Kit?
00:31:43.889 --> 00:31:45.338
Mm-hmm how- I'm, I'm Drip.
00:31:45.808 --> 00:31:45.969
Sorry.
00:31:45.969 --> 00:31:46.669
Oh, on Drip.
00:31:46.729 --> 00:31:48.078
Yeah, I used to use Drip.
00:31:48.078 --> 00:31:48.098
Drip.
00:31:48.098 --> 00:31:49.949
Yeah, Drip is amazing.
00:31:49.959 --> 00:31:59.709
Like, I've played with Kit, like a lot of my clients are, are on Kit, and Kit's great, but Drip, because it's primarily built on, originally built for e-com brands- Mm-hmm.
00:31:59.709 --> 00:32:10.439
Yeah they have just such good functionality to have, like, super easy tracking of custom events where you count in a custom- Yeah field how many times people click on a sales page.
00:32:10.449 --> 00:32:10.719
Yeah.
00:32:11.318 --> 00:32:20.969
The, conditional content is awesome, so I can target you with spec- specific extra things in an email, if you've sent me certain signals that everyone else doesn't see.
00:32:20.969 --> 00:32:21.087
Yeah.
00:32:21.587 --> 00:32:23.509
So it's- Yeah it makes it super easy.
00:32:24.288 --> 00:32:24.568
Yeah.
00:32:24.568 --> 00:32:25.859
But, yeah, you need to be intentional.
00:32:25.867 --> 00:32:26.449
That's the thing.
00:32:26.459 --> 00:32:34.068
I feel a lot of business owners have the right ideas, but then they're- Mm not having the right intentions before they put it in place.
00:32:34.077 --> 00:32:34.097
Yeah.
00:32:34.179 --> 00:32:36.659
And they try to add in, add in later.
00:32:37.088 --> 00:32:49.479
And I think the era of just, selling to people in any capacity- Mm regardless of what kind of brand you are, B2C, B2B, the era of just selling at people just doesn't, doesn't work anymore.
00:32:49.479 --> 00:32:50.558
One of my favorite things to...
00:32:50.578 --> 00:32:57.629
And I, I also just hate sending people emails and then not having any engagement, not knowing do you like this?
00:32:57.639 --> 00:32:57.649
Mm.
00:32:57.659 --> 00:32:58.669
Was this helpful?
00:32:58.669 --> 00:33:06.679
Like, just having opens and, let's face it, they don't mean that much, or clicks, or purchase- Yeah metrics to be able to understand and, and build off of.
00:33:06.949 --> 00:33:34.058
So one of the things we've started adding in, to the end of every sell email that's not just content, is driving towards a product, is a thing to say,"Look, e- message me back with any questions- Mm or something specific." So right now, we are in a kind of launch for, it's really a development of a new product that I'm working on, so we're giving people early access to that in a kind of launch format.
00:33:34.058 --> 00:33:36.749
But it's, it's not a high-stress launch.
00:33:36.778 --> 00:33:39.729
It's not something that I'm- Yeah hanging my hat on.
00:33:39.729 --> 00:33:46.249
But at the same time, like, revenue-wise, But at the same time, it's really important to be getting feedback data as we move through it.
00:33:46.509 --> 00:33:49.929
So o- one of the emails I sent out was,"Reply to me.
00:33:49.959 --> 00:34:03.149
I've got a limited amount of time to answer a few of these, but reply to me with who you serve and who your favorite customer is, and I will then build a list for you on Sales Navigator of ex- like, named prospects of who I would approach." Mm.
00:34:04.048 --> 00:34:06.519
And it has been, it's been so much fun for me to do.
00:34:06.528 --> 00:34:11.378
Like, each- Mm Loom video that I send in return, is, directly to that person.
00:34:11.568 --> 00:34:15.848
Does take me about 15 minutes to do, and there's been maybe, like, 20 of them.
00:34:15.878 --> 00:34:20.338
But the in- the data from that, the understanding of who those clients are, what...
00:34:20.347 --> 00:34:22.128
'Cause a lot of these people are coming through ads.
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:22.159
Yeah.
00:34:22.369 --> 00:34:24.898
So we don't have visibility in the same way on who they are.
00:34:25.168 --> 00:34:37.679
but learning more about the businesses, learning more about the, the, the types of people they're targeting, the stage of business they're at, their ability to be able to purchase or move fast is...
00:34:37.909 --> 00:34:48.157
I'm learning stuff at the same time as giving them something of incredible value, because the- Mm list building on its own is normally something that would sell significant price on a one-to-one basis.
00:34:48.617 --> 00:34:54.428
But yeah, it's this idea of, like, you, you're not just sitting there and listening to me sell something.
00:34:54.428 --> 00:34:58.868
I'm gonna demonstrate to you on a one-to-one basis if you take the time to reply to me.
00:34:59.157 --> 00:35:01.217
And it is hard to scale that kind of stuff.
00:35:01.248 --> 00:35:02.167
there are ways.
00:35:02.489 --> 00:35:15.568
Mm but I think, yet again, it's an example of AI has sped up some of these other things, so I can spend more one-to-one time with you, supporting you on the process of becoming, hopefully, a client.
00:35:15.588 --> 00:35:16.618
But if you don't, great.
00:35:16.618 --> 00:35:19.108
I'm hoping you get- Mm something of value out of it.
00:35:19.158 --> 00:35:25.828
so yeah, I'm playing around with that personalized, in-the-moment response with...
00:35:25.928 --> 00:35:28.308
embedded within evergreen sequences right now.
00:35:28.318 --> 00:35:28.414
Mm-hmm.
00:35:28.414 --> 00:35:38.739
And trying to understand, like, how much of my time I need to section off in order to get that Yeah, in the moment, at the same time as being evergreen is, is the best way- Yeah to describe it.
00:35:38.828 --> 00:35:41.548
yeah, and I think it does stand out because not many people are doing that.
00:35:41.578 --> 00:35:51.118
But, Mm yeah, I was curious about other people who have evergreen, funnels and- Yeah how they manage that while still being relevant and, yeah, feel comfortable about it as well.
00:35:51.218 --> 00:35:53.278
So yeah, anyhow, I just went off on one.
00:35:53.778 --> 00:35:54.338
No, I love it.
00:35:54.338 --> 00:35:54.558
What about that?
00:35:54.568 --> 00:36:08.568
I, I just, I love how, intentional you are about, the unscalable experiences and, like I feel when you're automating and evergreening things, often people think, we need to automate everything.
00:36:08.708 --> 00:36:16.408
So- Yeah yeah, I totally think there's definitely space for unscalable aspects in evergreen funnels.
00:36:16.448 --> 00:36:21.288
so like automate the automatable- Yeah the scalable, go for it.
00:36:21.318 --> 00:36:22.168
I've done that.
00:36:22.188 --> 00:36:27.268
Like, mom of three, one woman show, I just don't have the time to, to do certain things.
00:36:27.298 --> 00:36:36.438
But- Yeah I know exactly where me, recording a video, or me hitting reply to an email, or opening a conversation makes a real difference.
00:36:36.438 --> 00:36:42.938
And, yeah, it's again, being discerning, knowing what your audience needs at which point, and what's worth your, your while.
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:47.068
And- Yeah in your instance, I'm sure it's gonna pay back all the conversations you're having.
00:36:47.068 --> 00:36:47.128
Yeah.
00:36:47.138 --> 00:36:48.728
I find it- Even if it's not now, long term.
00:36:48.728 --> 00:36:49.259
Yeah.
00:36:49.259 --> 00:36:49.408
For sure.
00:36:49.408 --> 00:36:50.078
absolutely.
00:36:50.078 --> 00:36:50.838
Long term, yeah.
00:36:50.838 --> 00:36:53.928
A couple of the replies have been,"Oh my goodness, that was, that was so helpful." Mm.
00:36:54.338 --> 00:37:13.188
"I am not able to work with you right now, but here's-" Mm"the way in which I wanna work with you in the future." And yes, not all of those people will come back, but that is somebody who has, who is genuinely grateful, who's given me more circumstances about where they are, who I'm now front of mind with in a way that cuts through everybody else who's coming into their inbox.
00:37:13.198 --> 00:37:19.918
So yeah- Yeah I do think it's, it's genuinely helpful, and I would say as well, you said about being intentional.
00:37:19.958 --> 00:37:36.928
I think as you were speaking, I was just thinking to myself, I think the way I approach it is if I'm automating this, if I'm evergreening this, if I'm, making something else more simple, if I'm using AI for this, what is it allowing me to do instead?
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:40.218
And sometimes that might be going to my kid's sports day, right?
00:37:40.228 --> 00:37:50.888
But there are other times- Mm where it will be, being able to engage with somebody one-to-one in what is technically a lower price product sales process, which wouldn't have been feasible before.
00:37:50.908 --> 00:37:52.068
So yeah.
00:37:52.068 --> 00:37:52.378
Yeah.
00:37:52.498 --> 00:37:52.808
yeah.
00:37:52.848 --> 00:37:59.248
Always thinking about what it's bringing to you and your clients, both, you in work and in your personal life as well.
00:37:59.557 --> 00:38:02.317
Yeah but not being afraid automation, of AI.
00:38:02.907 --> 00:38:03.387
so what...
00:38:03.397 --> 00:38:05.437
Mm Listen, Nadine, I wanna be respectful of your time.
00:38:05.437 --> 00:38:07.817
Where, who should come and find you and where should they go?
00:38:08.317 --> 00:38:11.607
so you can, ideally track me down on my website.
00:38:11.607 --> 00:38:12.837
I think that's the best spot.
00:38:13.297 --> 00:38:14.672
you get a- And we'll put that in the show notes, yeah.
00:38:14.672 --> 00:38:14.717
Yeah.
00:38:14.717 --> 00:38:17.417
You get a pretty good idea of, my approach to things.
00:38:17.467 --> 00:38:34.869
Definitely check out the audience survey builder, particularly if you're in the 36% of people who have- who I've surveyed in my, State of the Customer Report recently, who said they haven't ever, like, have never surveyed their audience, or more than a year ago.
00:38:35.439 --> 00:38:35.710
Mm-hmm.
00:38:35.710 --> 00:38:44.649
So if that's you, no shame, but make sure you grab those questions and have a look how you can package them and get them off to your, to your audience.
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:48.519
And, while you're there, definitely check out the State of the Customer Report.
00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:55.250
It is, my yearly big survey that, surveys the online business space from- Yeah two perspectives.
00:38:55.409 --> 00:39:06.819
So what everyone answers, both from a business owner perspective and then I flip the coin and they answer as someone who buys products, joins memberships, masterminds- Yeah in the online business space.
00:39:06.859 --> 00:39:12.250
And the gaps and opportunities that came from that are pretty mind-blowing.
00:39:12.259 --> 00:39:18.129
And if you embrace them, you can definitely make them your unfair advantage in the online space.
00:39:18.139 --> 00:39:18.149
Mm.
00:39:18.469 --> 00:39:18.559
So, yeah.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:18.619
I'm gonna go check that out.
00:39:18.619 --> 00:39:19.899
I'm gonna go check that out.
00:39:20.169 --> 00:39:28.769
One final question for you, Nadine, before you go- Mm-hmm which I didn't ask earlier, is what are the most effective ways you've found of incentivizing people to answer a survey?
00:39:29.489 --> 00:39:30.109
Mm.
00:39:30.279 --> 00:39:37.689
I definitely believe incentivizing to respond, works and blows up your response rate, because we're all time poor.
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:47.730
So what has worked really well for my clients is usually giving away a nice juicy prize that is highly relevant and highly irresistible for the audience.
00:39:47.739 --> 00:39:57.199
So for example, if you have a lot of female business owners as your demographic, like Lululemon, I don't know, is that- yeah Like, the active wear brand.
00:39:57.250 --> 00:39:59.659
That's worked really well, like a gift voucher.
00:40:00.269 --> 00:40:02.319
it works because it's, global.
00:40:02.339 --> 00:40:07.299
Or, some clients also have donated to the respondent's charity of choice.
00:40:07.809 --> 00:40:08.519
Mm.
00:40:08.739 --> 00:40:09.639
So that could be something.
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:15.230
Again, it, have a think about what aligns with your audience and- Yeah your business and your beliefs.
00:40:15.230 --> 00:40:23.679
So there's lots and lots of different ways, and it doesn't have to break the bank, but it definitely pays off to incentivize people, because it just makes them pay attention.
00:40:24.439 --> 00:40:25.159
Absolutely.
00:40:25.259 --> 00:40:25.969
Okay, great.
00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:26.009
Mm-hmm.
00:40:26.019 --> 00:40:26.949
to get your feedback on that.
00:40:27.309 --> 00:40:32.219
Okay, Nadine, well, we will include all of your notes in the, in the show notes here, all of your links, rather.
00:40:32.529 --> 00:40:41.230
I know, like I mentioned, the, the survey builder, particularly definitely one for everyone to check out, whether you, or whether or not you've done customer listening before.
00:40:41.589 --> 00:40:43.139
and yeah, thank you so much for your time today.
00:40:43.149 --> 00:40:43.159
Mm.
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:45.500
I know it's late where you are, so thank you for joining us.
00:40:46.379 --> 00:40:47.739
Thanks so much for having me, Charlotte.
00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:47.670
Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the Authority Builder Podcast, and today I'm joined by Nadine.
00:00:47.710 --> 00:00:57.900
Nadine Nethery is the human-first customer experience and retention strategist for savvy online business owners like you, who are done chasing new leads at all cost.
00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:04.219
Your customers notice when a brand genuinely gets them, and Nadine is here to make sure that yours does.
00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:13.358
So she's the person you call on when you're sick of working harder for less and want to finally maximize your return on inve- investment for every lead.
00:01:13.397 --> 00:01:21.087
And this is something that we know a lot about because we focus very highly on finding leads here at Kaffeen and with our clients.
00:01:21.108 --> 00:01:25.188
it's my favorite, work experiment, is trying out new ways to find leads.
00:01:25.188 --> 00:01:30.608
But of course, there is, the other side of that is making sure once you've got them, you're maximizing the investment you get.
00:01:30.617 --> 00:01:32.427
So, welcome, Nadine.
00:01:32.438 --> 00:01:35.438
It's lovely to have you here today Yes.
00:01:35.448 --> 00:01:37.557
Thank you so much for having me, Charlotte.
00:01:37.587 --> 00:01:44.968
so good to connect and talk all things, retention, leads, audience research, and how that all connects.
00:01:45.528 --> 00:01:51.177
And I know you started as a copywriter about 10 years ago after being- Mm-hmm made redundant from your corporate comms role.
00:01:51.177 --> 00:02:00.108
Can you walk me through the pivot from writing copy to what you do now, which I know, as we mentioned already, is helping online business owners connect all those moving pieces.
00:02:00.328 --> 00:02:03.008
So when did that shift actually happen for you?
00:02:03.978 --> 00:02:06.987
Yeah, so it, happened somewhat organically.
00:02:06.998 --> 00:02:11.877
So initially, when I started out after redundancy, what it's like, new business owner.
00:02:11.968 --> 00:02:12.117
Yeah.
00:02:12.117 --> 00:02:19.627
You do everything for everyone and take on any client to do any work to- Yeah pay your bills, right?
00:02:19.828 --> 00:02:32.828
but I pretty quickly worked out that the customers that I worked with that got the best results out of my copy and the messaging and the strategies that we put together, they were looking at the bigger picture.
00:02:33.067 --> 00:02:46.588
So they didn't just come to me for, a landing page or a standalone welcome- Yeah sequence or nurture sequence, and they were just as obsessed about the customer and really understanding the customer, as I was.
00:02:46.588 --> 00:02:59.398
So- Yeah while I started out, as I said, as, copywriter, taking orders, giving people what they wanted, I pretty quickly- Yeah worked out that my strength, which is my Clifton Strength, assessment- Yes, I did that I did that around the time as well.
00:02:59.617 --> 00:03:00.007
Yeah.
00:03:00.007 --> 00:03:17.298
Yeah, so I quickly worked out that my secret weapon as a copywriter was really connecting all the moving pieces and that- Mm bigger picture, visualizing what's possible, the creative and strategic combination behind the scenes.
00:03:17.658 --> 00:03:17.947
Yeah.
00:03:17.947 --> 00:03:22.518
So I really became obsessed with, what came before the copy.
00:03:22.528 --> 00:03:22.548
Yeah.
00:03:22.757 --> 00:03:28.271
So that was audience research, and going really deep on the customer to then- Oh, I love that bit.
00:03:28.271 --> 00:03:30.018
That's my favorite bit is customer listening.
00:03:30.038 --> 00:03:31.398
I lo- it's just so- I know, right?
00:03:31.398 --> 00:03:33.697
full of juicy insights, and I just love it so much.
00:03:34.077 --> 00:03:35.398
I'm just so obsessed with it.
00:03:35.398 --> 00:03:35.418
Mm.
00:03:35.418 --> 00:03:47.408
And, the funny thing is once my customers were on the receiving end of, this juicy survey that uncovered just so many golden nuggets for- Yeah pretty much anything in their business, they were hooked as well.
00:03:47.437 --> 00:04:00.867
Yeah but yeah, so it evolved from, a curiosity on my part to then realizing just the power and the potential behind it, and, yeah, and then I organically moved into, like, connecting all the moving pieces.
00:04:01.247 --> 00:04:05.798
So once we had converted that lead into a customer, what was that next step?
00:04:06.088 --> 00:04:07.298
Like, what funnel?
00:04:07.548 --> 00:04:13.548
I hate the term technically, but what- Yeah strategic, customer journey could lead people to that next purchase?
00:04:13.958 --> 00:04:14.168
Yeah.
00:04:14.168 --> 00:04:19.077
or, like, organically directing them towards that next logical choice for them.
00:04:19.831 --> 00:04:38.052
a, a good niche to be in because I feel like we get distracted with all of the things we could be doing and- Mm over what we should be doing and what people are asking us to do, what our clients are literally saying,"We need this." So you said in the past a lot of your clients are doing a bit of everything, but not anything properly.
00:04:38.052 --> 00:04:41.471
So they've got membership here, digital program there, some one-to-one.
00:04:41.802 --> 00:04:46.302
as we've mentioned, it's easy to get distracted when in, especially in online business and coaching.
00:04:46.612 --> 00:04:53.812
So what's usually going wrong when somebody lands with you in that state, when they've been doing a bit of everything, but not 100%?
00:04:53.862 --> 00:04:54.351
Mm.
00:04:54.982 --> 00:05:00.062
Yeah, they, they take offers individually, I feel.
00:05:00.491 --> 00:05:05.012
So they are very focused on that next launch and how to get people to buy.
00:05:05.241 --> 00:05:09.031
But, they never look at the bigger picture and how it all connects.
00:05:09.031 --> 00:05:21.132
And so how I look at your offer suite and your business is that bigger picture, and how you can actually put your customer behind the steering wheel- Yeah of their customer journey.
00:05:21.151 --> 00:05:37.601
So via clever automations, via, email marketing where you're actually tracking what people are clicking on, what they're engaging with, counting how many times people actually land on the sales page, taking signals from that for potentially your future launch, your next launch.
00:05:38.012 --> 00:05:44.442
So just helping my clients, yeah, be more strategic and intentional about how their offers fit together.
00:05:44.611 --> 00:05:50.271
And if someone doesn't buy this time round, that doesn't mean they're not, the perfect fit customer.
00:05:50.411 --> 00:05:55.351
It just might me- might mean you have to funnel them down a different avenue until they're ready to buy.
00:05:55.851 --> 00:05:56.161
Yeah.
00:05:56.201 --> 00:05:56.822
Absolutely.
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Your signature product.
00:05:57.872 --> 00:06:14.351
Yeah, I think it's really easy for us to give up on, somebody or even a service if it's not being bought immediately, and not- Mm recognizing how long the, that journey does take from, well, the know, like, and trust journey, basically.
00:06:14.361 --> 00:06:18.041
W- how long it takes from somebody coming into your world to actually purchasing.
00:06:18.411 --> 00:06:19.831
And just, we...
00:06:19.851 --> 00:06:30.781
it's, it sounds l- I know it's not this, I know it's, like, lack of self-confidence, et cetera, but it can seem really self-absorbed when we make really rash decisions really quickly and make it all about us.
00:06:30.841 --> 00:06:46.382
Like,"They don't like it, I'm giving up," And not actually realizing that, no, it's just what else is going on in their business- Mm what stage they're at, what season they're at, how long they need to be hearing this, how much repetition they need before they're willing to buy, what evidence they need, et cetera.
00:06:46.382 --> 00:06:54.201
There's just so many other factors and, we can seem a little self-absorbed when we make rash decisions, but it's actually coming from a place of insecurity.
00:06:54.201 --> 00:06:59.641
And, you've said that everything you do starts with a strategic audience survey.
00:06:59.641 --> 00:07:07.711
So for somebody who's never done this, what does a good survey actually uncover that a business owner can't get from sitting and thinking about it?
00:07:08.211 --> 00:07:08.771
Mm.
00:07:08.861 --> 00:07:12.322
a strategic audience survey starts with the goal.
00:07:12.361 --> 00:07:26.111
So I feel often my clients, those who have actually done a survey at some point, they, throw a whole bunch of tick boxes and drop-downs at people, and then work with, again, their assumptions, right?
00:07:26.111 --> 00:07:36.891
Like, if you're asking people,"Why didn't you buy from me?" and you give them money, time, like, not the right fit, you are removing that ability for people to actually tell you what's going on.
00:07:36.901 --> 00:07:36.921
Yeah.
00:07:36.932 --> 00:07:39.512
So, always starting with the goal.
00:07:39.521 --> 00:07:42.331
Like, what do you really want to find out?
00:07:42.341 --> 00:07:45.921
Is it to help you shape an offer, for example?
00:07:45.932 --> 00:08:00.932
Do you wanna find out the perfect format, the messaging, bonuses to include, objections that are holding people back from buying, potential messaging gaps that you need to close before people are actually ready to consider your product?
00:08:01.151 --> 00:08:01.372
Yeah.
00:08:01.432 --> 00:08:06.701
There are so many, yeah, important considerations before you throw that survey out there.
00:08:06.942 --> 00:08:14.151
and I feel mapping it out strategically should take a lot more time than, even analyzing the results at the end.
00:08:14.252 --> 00:08:15.341
Like, do it strategically.
00:08:15.341 --> 00:08:16.651
You get one shot at it.
00:08:17.151 --> 00:08:17.322
Yeah.
00:08:17.322 --> 00:08:26.432
And, the outcome, as we touched on before, is just so powerful for your offers, your messaging, pretty much any decision you make in your business.
00:08:26.432 --> 00:08:32.382
And nowadays, 2026, right, it's even the foundation for your AI brief.
00:08:32.451 --> 00:08:47.262
So if you want your AI to work better for you when it comes to content creation, copywriting, I know we all, tapping into AI to write things for us, the more first-hand insights you have, the better- Yeah the AI output is going to be.
00:08:47.262 --> 00:08:49.032
So, yeah, super critical.
00:08:49.792 --> 00:08:57.662
And I know that your whole point of difference right now is amplifying the human elements of a brand while everyone else outsources their thinking to AI.
00:08:57.662 --> 00:08:59.201
So where is that line for you?
00:08:59.201 --> 00:09:00.532
You've just mentioned it a couple of times.
00:09:00.532 --> 00:09:10.312
You clearly, you clearly use AI heavily, so how do you use it without letting it flatten everything to middle of the road, same, same messaging that doesn't mean anything to anyone?
00:09:11.072 --> 00:09:18.272
Yeah, so in my business I personally throw manual tasks, repetitive tasks at, AI.
00:09:18.581 --> 00:09:18.602
Yeah.
00:09:18.951 --> 00:09:23.092
I also love AI for Oh, my God, I just did it this morning.
00:09:23.122 --> 00:09:28.042
Like, helping me make sense of Airtable automations- Oh, my God and, oh, my God.
00:09:28.042 --> 00:09:29.920
Oh, my G- it, it builds my Airtables now.
00:09:29.920 --> 00:09:31.132
It's so- How good is it, right?
00:09:31.222 --> 00:09:31.512
It's amazing.
00:09:31.512 --> 00:09:31.872
Yeah.
00:09:31.872 --> 00:09:45.522
Or rather I Sorry, I'm interrupting you, but I have- Yeah, no found that, like, I'm curious to see what you do, but, like, I talk to Claude about what I want, and then- Mm Claude tells me how to brief Airtable's AI, so then that builds it for me.
00:09:45.772 --> 00:09:47.152
So you do it in Airtable?
00:09:47.472 --> 00:09:47.482
yeah.
00:09:47.482 --> 00:09:47.502
That's good.
00:09:47.502 --> 00:09:47.752
Yeah.
00:09:47.752 --> 00:09:53.772
I do, I do I brief Claude on how to I, I tell it exactly what I want.
00:09:53.772 --> 00:09:53.782
Mm-hmm.
00:09:53.852 --> 00:10:05.461
I can It has all the knowledge of how my systems are set up in the back end, like, where my folders are, et cetera, what kind of data I already have, has insights into my Airtable.
00:10:05.461 --> 00:10:16.292
But then I get it to give me the brief for Airtable's own AI, because- I find that then, it just builds so much more fluidly, has been my experience of it.
00:10:16.302 --> 00:10:19.472
But it, it just- Mm requires less amends afterwards.
00:10:19.502 --> 00:10:22.772
But, yeah, I'm curious, like- Yep how, how that's looking for you.
00:10:23.512 --> 00:10:23.862
Yeah.
00:10:23.862 --> 00:10:26.812
So I, I actually get Claude to build it for me.
00:10:27.252 --> 00:10:30.222
So I don't work with the Airtable AI.
00:10:30.782 --> 00:10:31.042
Oh, interesting.
00:10:31.132 --> 00:10:32.572
And it's been amazing.
00:10:32.572 --> 00:10:32.722
Good.
00:10:32.722 --> 00:10:39.762
Like, I just, I'm hosting my first virtual bundle kind of event- Yeah like a fun way to round up the year.
00:10:40.342 --> 00:10:44.572
And, I just thought,"Oh, God, I can't be arsed to build the base from scratch." Yeah.
00:10:44.581 --> 00:10:49.042
And I want a leaderboard, and, tracking affiliate, referrals- Yeah.
00:10:49.042 --> 00:10:50.525
Yeah how many, leads everyone brought in.
00:10:50.525 --> 00:10:55.855
I also want participants to be able to get rewards for bringing in people.
00:10:55.865 --> 00:10:55.884
Yeah.
00:10:56.035 --> 00:11:06.475
So I got Airtable to build me, for example, a trackable unique code that I can give people when they sign up to the event to then share, but then also track how many people.
00:11:06.605 --> 00:11:07.754
It's, it's just mind-blowing.
00:11:07.765 --> 00:11:07.785
Yeah.
00:11:07.825 --> 00:11:10.165
Like, that would've taken me hours.
00:11:10.305 --> 00:11:10.575
Yeah.
00:11:10.575 --> 00:11:10.915
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:10.915 --> 00:11:14.435
And I reckon I went back and forth half an hour, and it's all done.
00:11:14.445 --> 00:11:15.215
The leaderboard.
00:11:15.215 --> 00:11:16.365
It's just Oh, my God.
00:11:16.595 --> 00:11:16.865
So good.
00:11:16.884 --> 00:11:17.305
Yeah.
00:11:17.395 --> 00:11:22.460
The space it frees up in your brain is incredible, to be able to- Yeah execute on so many- Mm other ideas.
00:11:22.460 --> 00:11:26.125
For me, it's not about, well, now I can clock off early.
00:11:26.125 --> 00:11:29.575
It's like what else that has been on my to-do list for ages business-wise?
00:11:29.595 --> 00:11:30.355
What other value?
00:11:30.355 --> 00:11:30.605
Yeah.
00:11:30.605 --> 00:11:32.235
What other thing can I do?
00:11:32.254 --> 00:11:42.685
And it's, Yeah, it To me it's I know as the, the week we're talking, there's a lot in the media, around the Anthropic researcher who's talking about- Mm the, the dangers of AI.
00:11:42.685 --> 00:11:50.675
But in terms of my own business, it's enabled me to be able to do so much more, and I'm super grateful for its role within my business, for sure.
00:11:50.705 --> 00:11:53.305
Mm I do think we give our clients so much more as a result.
00:11:54.283 --> 00:11:55.113
Oh, absolutely.
00:11:55.143 --> 00:12:00.273
It's, yeah, as I said, manual tasks, like analys- an- analyzing things, for example.
00:12:00.753 --> 00:12:04.393
my data, trends- Yes things like that, it's amazing.
00:12:04.393 --> 00:12:11.113
Or even make automations to, check Airtable against my email platform- Yeah and then send out a automation based on tags.
00:12:11.143 --> 00:12:11.863
it's just, yeah.
00:12:11.973 --> 00:12:13.052
Anyway- Yeah I could talk for hours.
00:12:13.052 --> 00:12:13.302
Mm-hmm.
00:12:13.973 --> 00:12:17.193
But yeah, it just, opens up so much more time, as you said, for other things.
00:12:17.193 --> 00:12:25.373
And, so coming back to that amplifying the human experience, I have really fallen in love with interactive tools inside my business.
00:12:25.513 --> 00:12:25.853
Yeah.
00:12:25.883 --> 00:12:31.403
So again, freeing up time so I can then create things for my, for my clients and my customers.
00:12:31.413 --> 00:12:42.403
So particularly inside my membership, I've really- Yeah leaned into interactive dashboards and tools where people can engage with the strategies that I'm giving them.
00:12:42.503 --> 00:12:48.403
But sometimes- Yeah I just, like, people watch a video, they're still none the wiser sometimes how it applies to them.
00:12:48.693 --> 00:12:48.983
Yeah.
00:12:49.033 --> 00:12:59.013
So just giving them the ability to pick up where my video walkthrough left off- Yeah, yeah and then actually create something they can take and run with.
00:12:59.453 --> 00:13:01.313
So that has been amazing.
00:13:01.343 --> 00:13:04.443
I've even designed a, audience survey builder.
00:13:04.493 --> 00:13:10.932
So briefed on my framework that I do- Yeah inside my one-on-one client projects are where I build surveys for my clients.
00:13:11.193 --> 00:13:11.432
Yeah.
00:13:11.493 --> 00:13:24.443
Where, yeah, based on some input, the, the offer, the audience, the type of person they want to audit, whether it's existing customers, past customers, what incentive they wanna give for people to, to respond.
00:13:24.513 --> 00:13:31.873
And the tool gives them a list of questions based on my framework they can run with, which again, removes that friction.
00:13:31.883 --> 00:13:31.903
Yeah.
00:13:32.013 --> 00:13:33.413
People actually do it.
00:13:33.802 --> 00:13:34.052
Yeah.
00:13:34.123 --> 00:13:47.873
They, yeah, have my framework to help them put that together, and then, the next step is bringing those audience survey results to me so we can discuss it together, identify the trends, and discuss what that means for their business.
00:13:47.883 --> 00:13:51.163
So again, it's not replacing human interaction with me.
00:13:51.163 --> 00:13:51.333
Yeah.
00:13:51.333 --> 00:13:58.802
It is just making sure they take that first step that is so critical, they get the results, the aha moments, and then it opens up the conversation.
00:13:59.163 --> 00:13:59.923
That's what I've found.
00:13:59.923 --> 00:14:06.253
people to do things that otherwise they might avoid, I think is one- Mm of the biggest, the biggest, yeah, reasons for it.
00:14:06.293 --> 00:14:14.533
And, just coming back to surveys and customer conversations, I know from my experience of doing them with, with my clients and also within my own business.
00:14:14.533 --> 00:14:14.843
Mm-hmm.
00:14:14.843 --> 00:14:20.993
I know I would admit to feeling deeply uncomfortable about it, but it does make a lot of people feel deeply uncomfortable.
00:14:21.363 --> 00:14:24.703
and you called it uncomfortable on its own at the best of times.
00:14:24.713 --> 00:14:34.793
So why do you think it is- Yeah and how do you get clients over the hump of actually asking, beyond, enabling them with these interactive tools that you've built to help them take those first steps?
00:14:35.501 --> 00:14:42.901
Yes, a lot of clients, actually, as you said, love the fact that they don't have to dig through the actual raw data.
00:14:42.941 --> 00:14:50.211
So I can- Yeah be the filter and sugarcoat a few things that potentially can be a bit confronting because we all know, right?
00:14:50.211 --> 00:14:55.031
Like, people are honest, particularly when it feels like a survey comes from someone else.
00:14:55.141 --> 00:14:55.301
Completely.
00:14:55.301 --> 00:14:55.524
Yeah.
00:14:55.524 --> 00:14:56.836
where they have a bit of a buffer.
00:14:57.027 --> 00:15:01.177
So, Yeah I had a client recently who came to me for exactly this purpose.
00:15:01.187 --> 00:15:15.326
She said she's somewhat sensitive, and, has assumptions and knows that certain things might come up, but she just wanted someone to look through it and then put it into the bigger context without that emotional attachment, to the data.
00:15:15.326 --> 00:15:15.657
Yeah.
00:15:15.657 --> 00:15:16.467
And same thing here.
00:15:16.467 --> 00:15:29.167
So in my membership, I'm like,"You send out the data," and then, like, I have a follow-up tool that helps them identify the first patterns based on the raw data to, again- Yeah just remove that friction.
00:15:29.517 --> 00:15:34.677
so it helps- Yeah them identify all the things we touched on, like objections, pain points, desires.
00:15:35.357 --> 00:15:35.576
Yeah.
00:15:35.576 --> 00:15:35.667
Yeah.
00:15:35.667 --> 00:15:42.617
They then come to that with me, and if we are curious somewhere, we can dig deeper together in our- Yeah kind of one-on-one session.
00:15:42.617 --> 00:15:57.206
So yeah, it can be confronting, but I totally believe even the worst feedback has so much potential in your business to make you a better business owner, to actually turn your office into something that help people and get people results.
00:15:57.956 --> 00:16:02.607
I think there's just such a huge penalty to not asking.
00:16:02.867 --> 00:16:04.117
Like, I know it's- Mm painful.
00:16:04.147 --> 00:16:05.576
I find it really uncomfortable.
00:16:05.956 --> 00:16:23.857
I have- Yeah automations and external providers, for higher level customer survey conversations that I use, so they clients can speak knowing that it's it's not to me, it is completely, independent of me, and they can be frank, which is exactly what I want.
00:16:24.357 --> 00:16:28.737
I, I feel so deeply uncomfortable about getting feedback.
00:16:29.237 --> 00:16:32.697
But I know, I know how valuable it is to my business.
00:16:32.737 --> 00:16:35.927
It's not just- Mm you get, testimonials out of it.
00:16:35.927 --> 00:16:38.927
You get quantifiable results that you m- may not have otherwise got.
00:16:38.927 --> 00:16:38.937
Mm.
00:16:39.437 --> 00:16:44.487
You get ideas about how to shape your marketing, how to shape your products.
00:16:44.517 --> 00:16:59.206
Like, when we were rewriting our entire website, the customer listening that we'd done, consolidated customer listening over a number of years, basically helped us to It completely wrote the website because then we knew we were speaking in the words that our clients use.
00:16:59.697 --> 00:17:09.866
And, the, the thing that I hear the most when I first get on a chemistry call with somebody is, like, them saying,"I listened to your podcast and it's like you're inside my head.
00:17:09.866 --> 00:17:12.287
exactly what I'm thinking." I was like,"That's because I asked." Mm.
00:17:12.287 --> 00:17:22.456
"And you told me, and then I repeated the words back to you." It's not, like, I'm Y- It's just so powerful when you do it because, so few people do.
00:17:22.487 --> 00:17:23.686
And I just think it's Yeah.
00:17:23.686 --> 00:17:23.727
Yeah.
00:17:23.727 --> 00:17:29.356
I will sit here all day long and say it's- Yeah it's the most valuable thing in your business, as long as you're willing to do it.
00:17:29.856 --> 00:17:30.217
Mm.
00:17:30.217 --> 00:17:37.186
So- And I feel your customers, they, they feel valued as well if they- Oh, completely not just that you're actually acting on it.
00:17:37.807 --> 00:17:42.366
Like, in my, membership, I always say, like,"Let me know anything I can help you with." Yeah.
00:17:42.376 --> 00:17:52.096
"Anything that doesn't quite work for you, let me know-" Yeah and I'll act on it." And, like, they could be little things, like someone says,"Oh, I never find the link to submit my monthly execution.
00:17:52.106 --> 00:17:59.596
Like, I w- I wish" Yeah you put that into the email that comes up" Yeah every month because then I" Yeah don't have to log into the portal." I'm like,"Of course.
00:17:59.626 --> 00:18:01.366
Oh my God, how didn't I think of that?" So simple.
00:18:01.366 --> 00:18:01.667
Yeah.
00:18:01.697 --> 00:18:04.977
And, this member's going- Yeah"Oh, I told her something.
00:18:05.007 --> 00:18:08.247
Next email, this link magically is there." Yeah.
00:18:08.247 --> 00:18:14.947
So the h- relationship between you and your customers is taken to another level if they- Completely take it seriously.
00:18:14.947 --> 00:18:19.717
As long as Yeah, as long as you're willing to be curious and not defensive.
00:18:19.767 --> 00:18:20.126
Mm.
00:18:20.626 --> 00:18:21.217
Exactly.
00:18:21.767 --> 00:18:22.396
Totally.
00:18:22.457 --> 00:18:35.047
so y- you made a fascinating observation when we spoke previously that the same people who are quietly ashamed to admit a human copywriter helped them three years ago are now proudly selling their AI copy prompts.
00:18:35.067 --> 00:18:37.126
So what do you make of that shift?
00:18:37.126 --> 00:18:38.646
What do How does that sit with you?
00:18:39.616 --> 00:18:41.257
Yeah, it's just curious.
00:18:41.326 --> 00:18:44.477
copywriting, as a profession has changed a lot.
00:18:44.606 --> 00:18:44.737
Mm-hmm.
00:18:44.826 --> 00:18:46.646
I feel like there's still work out there.
00:18:46.777 --> 00:18:50.977
There's still enough people that value strategic copy.
00:18:51.106 --> 00:19:05.767
and I feel like give it another year or so maybe, and people might come back round and actually appreciate the amount of strategy and thought process and- Mm-hmm research, as we said, that goes into it- Yeah that AI simply can't give you.
00:19:05.767 --> 00:19:20.697
So, yeah, it's just such a curious, obviously, ob- observation where people, yeah, wouldn't credit their copywriter on their website, but, then are selling prompts and telling you how they wrote a landing page in two minutes with X, Y, Z- Yeah process.
00:19:20.707 --> 00:19:22.557
So, yeah, it's interesting times.
00:19:22.557 --> 00:19:38.411
I just feel while AI is helpful with content creation and speeding things up, the real threat here is a widening, customer intelligence gap that then is amplified via AI.
00:19:38.421 --> 00:20:04.101
Because if you pair, mediocre briefs and assumptions- Yeah with AI, AI is, in a matter of minutes, scaling, Yeah those bad assumptions, and that means you're making decisions around your offer, your launch, your messaging based on those assumptions, and it's so hard- Yeah to backtrack once- Yeah you have made all those changes because, two minutes, and AI now can tweak that for you on your website too.
00:20:04.750 --> 00:20:24.441
So, just really being careful because, yeah, there's just that, that danger that you go far down a rabbit hole, and it's so hard to then make sense of anything that AI's given you, which actually, what came from your customers, which- Yes it's just this big mess, so- Yeah yeah- And throw hallucination in and- Yeah, right?
00:20:25.030 --> 00:20:25.290
Yeah.
00:20:25.290 --> 00:20:26.361
It's like, do the groundwork.
00:20:26.381 --> 00:20:39.730
Do your- Yeah own research, your own thinking, your- Yeah own strategizing, and then if you want to use AI to work with the brief, the audience research, the intel- Mm-hmm the message mining you've given AI, go for it.
00:20:39.891 --> 00:20:46.790
Just don't skip that important step where you are just outsourcing all the thought processes and strategies.
00:20:46.851 --> 00:20:51.551
I just think it comes down to ensuring the quality of your inputs.
00:20:51.571 --> 00:20:53.250
You cannot- Mm shortcut on that.
00:20:53.381 --> 00:20:59.790
You can use AI to accelerate everything, but the inputs always have to be of the highest quality and human.
00:20:59.901 --> 00:21:02.740
Otherwise, when I say inputs, I don't just mean the prompt.
00:21:02.750 --> 00:21:13.790
all of the, the, the data that goes into the prompt, be that qual or quan or, intention, a bigger focus of the- Yeah business is just And this is where customer listening plugs back in, right?
00:21:13.790 --> 00:21:26.121
But it's- Mm yeah, crucial that that is of the highest quality and the most expansive that it can be in order that AI can move that forward at scale with, at a quality, level.
00:21:26.371 --> 00:21:26.520
Mm.
00:21:26.530 --> 00:21:28.740
So b- I'm curious about your own business.
00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:33.321
Beyond word of mouth and repeat business, you lean hard on strategic speaking.
00:21:33.331 --> 00:21:38.441
So I'm curious what that phrase like, what about that phrase rather, what makes it strategic for you?
00:21:38.441 --> 00:21:49.990
How do you actually choose which summits and stages are worth a yes now that hundreds the old hundreds of survi- subscribers- of OneGig era has faded out, and it's not really a thing- Yeah so much anymore?
00:21:50.490 --> 00:21:53.831
Yeah, I'm very, very discerning around, the pitch I get.
00:21:53.831 --> 00:22:00.321
So, it's probably a 50/50 where I pitch myself for speaking opportunities, and then 50% is people approaching me.
00:22:00.591 --> 00:22:00.841
Yeah.
00:22:01.010 --> 00:22:03.780
So a lot of it comes down to trust.
00:22:03.891 --> 00:22:07.891
Ideally, I know the person already, which is always ideal, right?
00:22:07.891 --> 00:22:12.881
that their- Yeah values are aligned, their audience is similar to who you want to talk to.
00:22:13.431 --> 00:22:31.441
I'm a bit vain when it comes to branding, so if I can get a sense of how this summit or, virtual event is going to be, represented online- Yeah I do know for a fact that good design, good UX on the landing page, on the sign-up page, all plays a huge role.
00:22:31.990 --> 00:22:33.411
So that comes into it.
00:22:33.461 --> 00:22:37.371
and then yeah, definitely very picky around topic alignment.
00:22:37.371 --> 00:22:39.270
So if it's a summit that...
00:22:40.191 --> 00:22:48.000
Just trying to think here, Is about, AI automation and, plugging, everything into AI to replace humans, obviously that's not the right fit for me.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:57.730
So- yeah really strategic about people being interested in what I have to say and- Yeah my approach to, yeah, to this particular topic.
00:22:58.561 --> 00:23:04.711
And do you, do you sp- how much time do you spend looking for, or how do you, how do you even find those?
00:23:04.831 --> 00:23:13.641
I'm, I'm just curious'cause I'm like- Yeah I know people come to me with opportunities, but then going out there and just really understanding it is always feels like such a mammoth task.
00:23:13.881 --> 00:23:14.181
Mm.
00:23:14.471 --> 00:23:19.881
and I, I, I, I've done lots of speaking in the past, but I always feel like- Well, I'm not in control of that.
00:23:19.881 --> 00:23:24.211
I'd rather be doing something that I'm in control of that- Yeah I know my time is gonna repay me on.
00:23:24.211 --> 00:23:30.141
So like how do you make sure that- Mm you're, doing that in a way that is productive and efficient?
00:23:31.111 --> 00:23:31.661
Mm.
00:23:31.790 --> 00:23:35.951
I do have a few topics that I can recycle.
00:23:36.421 --> 00:23:36.701
Yeah.
00:23:36.701 --> 00:23:45.151
Not necessarily 100%, but- Yeah I'll record like a new intro specific to the event, and then I can, yeah, recycle the talk.
00:23:45.591 --> 00:23:47.510
So yeah, that's important.
00:23:47.510 --> 00:23:53.161
If it's a really awesome event that I know is going to be perfect fit, I'll record something brand new.
00:23:53.571 --> 00:23:53.851
Yeah.
00:23:53.911 --> 00:23:57.641
But, yeah, I wouldn't say I'm spending hours and hours, opportunities.
00:23:57.651 --> 00:24:07.401
Usually- Yeah they pop up in communities that I'm a part of- Yeah or someone, drops my name, as an introduction, as in,"Nadine would be awesome too." Right.
00:24:07.411 --> 00:24:07.431
Yeah.
00:24:07.621 --> 00:24:15.471
So luckily it's, it's starting to shift more towards people reaching out to me, rather than me- And are you ever doing that in person, or does it tend to be online?
00:24:16.051 --> 00:24:18.081
Yeah, most things are online.
00:24:18.510 --> 00:24:22.071
I did my first panel speaking event in Sydney here.
00:24:22.071 --> 00:24:23.290
So Sydney's a bit funny.
00:24:23.341 --> 00:24:23.641
I don't know.
00:24:23.681 --> 00:24:28.790
There's not that much happening when it comes to business events, which is a bit of a shame.
00:24:28.801 --> 00:24:33.211
But, yes, I have only done one panel, speaking opportunity earlier this year.
00:24:34.111 --> 00:24:38.480
But yeah, a lot is, a lot is online, and then the complexity is too, the time zone difference.
00:24:38.490 --> 00:24:39.341
So, Yes.
00:24:39.471 --> 00:24:41.750
Yeah sometimes the live opportunities you can't be part of.
00:24:41.780 --> 00:24:47.780
Like one, one time I was super keen to host a live session for, Showit and their community.
00:24:47.961 --> 00:24:48.270
Yeah.
00:24:48.311 --> 00:24:52.911
And they were very rigid on time slot when it had to happen, so I actually got up at 2:00 AM.
00:24:53.411 --> 00:24:54.641
Because I was so keen.
00:24:54.641 --> 00:24:56.941
I'm like,"I want this logo on my website." yeah.
00:24:56.941 --> 00:25:02.201
and it was totally worth it, but, yeah, I'm like to get me up at 2:00 AM you have to be someone pretty special.
00:25:02.701 --> 00:25:05.131
I'm not sure you'd be getting the best of me at 2:00 AM, that's for sure.
00:25:05.181 --> 00:25:07.770
Oh, it, it was a bit rough, but anyway.
00:25:08.701 --> 00:25:11.601
So I, I want you to tell me about your Retention Games Summit.
00:25:11.601 --> 00:25:14.711
It's like The Hunger Games style event where the audience voted.
00:25:14.961 --> 00:25:20.461
So where did that come from- Mm and what did going interactive do that a normal summit couldn't for you?
00:25:21.317 --> 00:25:21.687
Yeah.
00:25:21.687 --> 00:25:28.267
So, if, for people who know me, I am all about out of the box, doing things unconventionally.
00:25:28.437 --> 00:25:49.757
So probably, again, going back to strength here, like I'm that strategic compared with creative, and when there's an opportunity to do something that is so overdone or, people have a certain expectation around in a way that disrupts the pattern, that is just, yeah, shaped in a way that people are paying attention to, I'm all for it.
00:25:50.277 --> 00:25:57.037
So I knew I wanted to run a virtual event, like a virtual summit style event, but- Yeah also working with...
00:25:57.047 --> 00:26:04.027
I've worked with, like one of the leading, coaches in that space who helps people run virtual summits, so I know there's a lot of same, same.
00:26:04.027 --> 00:26:12.836
People are following the same pattern, and, personally also I was getting rather fatigued of 50 sessions thrown at me that I consume.
00:26:12.846 --> 00:26:12.866
Yeah.
00:26:12.866 --> 00:26:17.126
I download a freebie, and I'm still none the wiser because they're so middle of the road.
00:26:17.307 --> 00:26:17.737
Yeah.
00:26:18.207 --> 00:26:18.404
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:18.404 --> 00:26:18.602
I agree.
00:26:18.602 --> 00:26:19.967
That it's just such a waste of time, right?
00:26:20.177 --> 00:26:20.477
I'm quite jaded.
00:26:20.477 --> 00:26:25.447
And I just don't have the time or head space, and often I sign up and then don't consume anything.
00:26:26.057 --> 00:26:34.076
So I just wanted to make it interactive because I didn't want people to just, again, sign up, with the best intentions and not do anything.
00:26:34.086 --> 00:26:47.376
So I, yeah, came up with this competition style event where, competitors or contestants, as I called them, so the speakers could win prizes and, be rewarded for putting their best foot forward.
00:26:47.777 --> 00:26:47.917
Mm-hmm.
00:26:47.927 --> 00:26:52.896
And the attendees also could win prizes for voting for their favorite session.
00:26:52.896 --> 00:26:59.517
So it literally was, like the qualifying rounds, then it was, went down to top 10 contestant strategies.
00:26:59.547 --> 00:27:09.297
People again voted for their favorites, top three, and then there was an overall winner, and for every vote, people placed, they went in the running to win prizes.
00:27:09.787 --> 00:27:13.576
And yeah, the contestants were super invested, which was funny.
00:27:13.586 --> 00:27:31.197
when people, and all of a sudden there's this competitive streak coming out- and they're like posting and posting again,"I'm in the top 10, you need to vote for me." So it really started this beautiful interactive experience where everyone kept checking in, like every round they were curious to see who made it.
00:27:31.247 --> 00:27:32.297
I had a live leaderboard.
00:27:32.307 --> 00:27:33.586
Again, thanks Airtable.
00:27:34.157 --> 00:27:40.836
so people felt emotionally invested, and then once you had voted for someone, obviously you wanted them to do well.
00:27:41.457 --> 00:27:44.537
So yeah, it was just out of the box.
00:27:44.557 --> 00:27:45.297
people were...
00:27:45.677 --> 00:27:46.736
Everyone was having fun.
00:27:46.777 --> 00:27:56.846
I had daily live updates from the commentary box where, announced the, next round contestants and- It just felt like fun.
00:27:57.247 --> 00:28:01.896
And, Yeah the feedback just like that as well, so big on feedback as I, as we've explored.
00:28:01.896 --> 00:28:09.346
So I had a, survey after for attendees and contestants, and all of them were, just saying how cool it was.
00:28:09.366 --> 00:28:15.317
Just different and, how everyone felt part of something bigger, which is- Yeah very rare, right?
00:28:15.346 --> 00:28:18.376
Like, I don't know- the last time I attended something where I felt invested.
00:28:18.927 --> 00:28:20.106
Yeah, completely.
00:28:20.136 --> 00:28:21.096
No, I, I- Mm.
00:28:21.697 --> 00:28:28.896
It's another example of originality in the era of same, same, same- Mm that stands out- Exactly and feels different to people.
00:28:29.447 --> 00:28:37.267
So now I'm just thinking a bit more about your, funnel, and I know that's a, a term that, I'm using loosely there because it's not one word.
00:28:37.277 --> 00:28:37.586
Yeah.
00:28:38.086 --> 00:28:40.076
But but can you help me trace it end to end?
00:28:40.076 --> 00:28:43.807
So I know you've got the survey builder freebie, and we'll include the link to that in the show notes.
00:28:43.947 --> 00:28:43.977
Mm-hmm.
00:28:44.027 --> 00:28:45.567
Because I've used it, and I thought it was fab.
00:28:46.017 --> 00:28:51.417
And then there's your high touch membership, and then there's a behavior driven evergreen funnel.
00:28:51.437 --> 00:28:54.017
Like, how do all the pieces feed each other?
00:28:54.207 --> 00:28:54.217
Mm.
00:28:54.217 --> 00:28:59.136
And what's the philosophy behind- Yeah, AI helps me take action but doesn't replace me.
00:28:59.586 --> 00:29:00.346
Yeah.
00:29:00.407 --> 00:29:09.177
Yeah, so I, as I said, I'm big on the subscriber, so you- Yeah who took the survey and is now on my list, deciding your own path.
00:29:09.277 --> 00:29:14.096
So I have weekly emails that go out that touch on certain things.
00:29:14.136 --> 00:29:20.116
I have evergreen emails in case I go on holidays or I'm not available or- Yeah heavens forbid, I fall ill.
00:29:20.606 --> 00:29:29.157
So there's things happening in the background at all times that don't necessarily push a hard sell, but they, have trigger links within them.
00:29:29.167 --> 00:29:29.187
Mm-hmm.
00:29:29.197 --> 00:29:46.567
So I am huge on data, paying attention to how you engage with my content, and based on the signals that you're sending me and what you're engaging with in those emails that are going out, I- Yeah might decide to add you to a nurture sequence, for example.
00:29:46.576 --> 00:29:58.336
So if, you click on my Retention Lab sales page six times, that's a pretty good indication that something, you're interested, you are checking it out.
00:29:58.346 --> 00:30:02.467
Something might be missing from that bigger picture for you to actually decide to join.
00:30:02.997 --> 00:30:03.146
Yeah.
00:30:03.167 --> 00:30:05.576
so yeah, I might add you into that funnel.
00:30:05.626 --> 00:30:08.886
Again, inside the funnel I'll track how you're engaging with that.
00:30:09.277 --> 00:30:19.927
Potentially, if you're sending me the right signals, I might even send you a personal video- Mm-hmm to just reach out, start a conversation, seeing whether there's anything I can help you with.
00:30:20.396 --> 00:30:22.876
If you don't buy, totally okay.
00:30:22.937 --> 00:30:29.457
I'll just add you back into my regular programming, and that's the process I like to embrace in my business.
00:30:29.467 --> 00:30:49.826
So rather than constantly selling the same thing to everyone, I let you tell me or send me signals that you're- Yeah interested in something, and then I'll hopefully give you the information to decide whether now's the right time or maybe not, which is fine, and give you that push, and that's worked really well for me, and it, again, feeds into that retention piece.
00:30:49.836 --> 00:30:59.657
So, your, like, your business changes, your goals change, so what better way to let you decide, Yeah if you buy.
00:30:59.657 --> 00:31:05.907
Like, just let you decide where you go down, like, which path you go down and what, what you receive.
00:31:05.997 --> 00:31:09.739
yeah, it's just- It's a feelgood way to sell, I feel.
00:31:09.778 --> 00:31:12.399
Like, I don't feel like I'm constantly selling at you.
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:14.699
I just know- Yeah there's things happening in the background.
00:31:14.729 --> 00:31:26.048
Obviously they need to be set up, but once they're set up they just work beautifully and, then I tweak them obviously based on new, new things, new feedback, new- Yeah custom modules.
00:31:26.048 --> 00:31:36.058
So it's never 100% done, but, yeah, I feel like you can always keep an eye on how, how it's working, what's not working, and then improve it as you go along.
00:31:36.808 --> 00:31:40.548
And in terms of your behavior driven evergreen funnel, are you...
00:31:40.578 --> 00:31:42.639
Like, what, what are the tools that actually go into that?
00:31:42.639 --> 00:31:43.439
Are you on Kit?
00:31:43.889 --> 00:31:45.338
Mm-hmm how- I'm, I'm Drip.
00:31:45.808 --> 00:31:45.969
Sorry.
00:31:45.969 --> 00:31:46.669
Oh, on Drip.
00:31:46.729 --> 00:31:48.078
Yeah, I used to use Drip.
00:31:48.078 --> 00:31:48.098
Drip.
00:31:48.098 --> 00:31:49.949
Yeah, Drip is amazing.
00:31:49.959 --> 00:31:59.709
Like, I've played with Kit, like a lot of my clients are, are on Kit, and Kit's great, but Drip, because it's primarily built on, originally built for e-com brands- Mm-hmm.
00:31:59.709 --> 00:32:10.439
Yeah they have just such good functionality to have, like, super easy tracking of custom events where you count in a custom- Yeah field how many times people click on a sales page.
00:32:10.449 --> 00:32:10.719
Yeah.
00:32:11.318 --> 00:32:20.969
The, conditional content is awesome, so I can target you with spec- specific extra things in an email, if you've sent me certain signals that everyone else doesn't see.
00:32:20.969 --> 00:32:21.087
Yeah.
00:32:21.587 --> 00:32:23.509
So it's- Yeah it makes it super easy.
00:32:24.288 --> 00:32:24.568
Yeah.
00:32:24.568 --> 00:32:25.859
But, yeah, you need to be intentional.
00:32:25.867 --> 00:32:26.449
That's the thing.
00:32:26.459 --> 00:32:34.068
I feel a lot of business owners have the right ideas, but then they're- Mm not having the right intentions before they put it in place.
00:32:34.077 --> 00:32:34.097
Yeah.
00:32:34.179 --> 00:32:36.659
And they try to add in, add in later.
00:32:37.088 --> 00:32:49.479
And I think the era of just, selling to people in any capacity- Mm regardless of what kind of brand you are, B2C, B2B, the era of just selling at people just doesn't, doesn't work anymore.
00:32:49.479 --> 00:32:50.558
One of my favorite things to...
00:32:50.578 --> 00:32:57.629
And I, I also just hate sending people emails and then not having any engagement, not knowing do you like this?
00:32:57.639 --> 00:32:57.649
Mm.
00:32:57.659 --> 00:32:58.669
Was this helpful?
00:32:58.669 --> 00:33:06.679
Like, just having opens and, let's face it, they don't mean that much, or clicks, or purchase- Yeah metrics to be able to understand and, and build off of.
00:33:06.949 --> 00:33:34.058
So one of the things we've started adding in, to the end of every sell email that's not just content, is driving towards a product, is a thing to say,"Look, e- message me back with any questions- Mm or something specific." So right now, we are in a kind of launch for, it's really a development of a new product that I'm working on, so we're giving people early access to that in a kind of launch format.
00:33:34.058 --> 00:33:36.749
But it's, it's not a high-stress launch.
00:33:36.778 --> 00:33:39.729
It's not something that I'm- Yeah hanging my hat on.
00:33:39.729 --> 00:33:46.249
But at the same time, like, revenue-wise, But at the same time, it's really important to be getting feedback data as we move through it.
00:33:46.509 --> 00:33:49.929
So o- one of the emails I sent out was,"Reply to me.
00:33:49.959 --> 00:34:03.149
I've got a limited amount of time to answer a few of these, but reply to me with who you serve and who your favorite customer is, and I will then build a list for you on Sales Navigator of ex- like, named prospects of who I would approach." Mm.
00:34:04.048 --> 00:34:06.519
And it has been, it's been so much fun for me to do.
00:34:06.528 --> 00:34:11.378
Like, each- Mm Loom video that I send in return, is, directly to that person.
00:34:11.568 --> 00:34:15.848
Does take me about 15 minutes to do, and there's been maybe, like, 20 of them.
00:34:15.878 --> 00:34:20.338
But the in- the data from that, the understanding of who those clients are, what...
00:34:20.347 --> 00:34:22.128
'Cause a lot of these people are coming through ads.
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:22.159
Yeah.
00:34:22.369 --> 00:34:24.898
So we don't have visibility in the same way on who they are.
00:34:25.168 --> 00:34:37.679
but learning more about the businesses, learning more about the, the, the types of people they're targeting, the stage of business they're at, their ability to be able to purchase or move fast is...
00:34:37.909 --> 00:34:48.157
I'm learning stuff at the same time as giving them something of incredible value, because the- Mm list building on its own is normally something that would sell significant price on a one-to-one basis.
00:34:48.617 --> 00:34:54.428
But yeah, it's this idea of, like, you, you're not just sitting there and listening to me sell something.
00:34:54.428 --> 00:34:58.868
I'm gonna demonstrate to you on a one-to-one basis if you take the time to reply to me.
00:34:59.157 --> 00:35:01.217
And it is hard to scale that kind of stuff.
00:35:01.248 --> 00:35:02.167
there are ways.
00:35:02.489 --> 00:35:15.568
Mm but I think, yet again, it's an example of AI has sped up some of these other things, so I can spend more one-to-one time with you, supporting you on the process of becoming, hopefully, a client.
00:35:15.588 --> 00:35:16.618
But if you don't, great.
00:35:16.618 --> 00:35:19.108
I'm hoping you get- Mm something of value out of it.
00:35:19.158 --> 00:35:25.828
so yeah, I'm playing around with that personalized, in-the-moment response with...
00:35:25.928 --> 00:35:28.308
embedded within evergreen sequences right now.
00:35:28.318 --> 00:35:28.414
Mm-hmm.
00:35:28.414 --> 00:35:38.739
And trying to understand, like, how much of my time I need to section off in order to get that Yeah, in the moment, at the same time as being evergreen is, is the best way- Yeah to describe it.
00:35:38.828 --> 00:35:41.548
yeah, and I think it does stand out because not many people are doing that.
00:35:41.578 --> 00:35:51.118
But, Mm yeah, I was curious about other people who have evergreen, funnels and- Yeah how they manage that while still being relevant and, yeah, feel comfortable about it as well.
00:35:51.218 --> 00:35:53.278
So yeah, anyhow, I just went off on one.
00:35:53.778 --> 00:35:54.338
No, I love it.
00:35:54.338 --> 00:35:54.558
What about that?
00:35:54.568 --> 00:36:08.568
I, I just, I love how, intentional you are about, the unscalable experiences and, like I feel when you're automating and evergreening things, often people think, we need to automate everything.
00:36:08.708 --> 00:36:16.408
So- Yeah yeah, I totally think there's definitely space for unscalable aspects in evergreen funnels.
00:36:16.448 --> 00:36:21.288
so like automate the automatable- Yeah the scalable, go for it.
00:36:21.318 --> 00:36:22.168
I've done that.
00:36:22.188 --> 00:36:27.268
Like, mom of three, one woman show, I just don't have the time to, to do certain things.
00:36:27.298 --> 00:36:36.438
But- Yeah I know exactly where me, recording a video, or me hitting reply to an email, or opening a conversation makes a real difference.
00:36:36.438 --> 00:36:42.938
And, yeah, it's again, being discerning, knowing what your audience needs at which point, and what's worth your, your while.
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:47.068
And- Yeah in your instance, I'm sure it's gonna pay back all the conversations you're having.
00:36:47.068 --> 00:36:47.128
Yeah.
00:36:47.138 --> 00:36:48.728
I find it- Even if it's not now, long term.
00:36:48.728 --> 00:36:49.259
Yeah.
00:36:49.259 --> 00:36:49.408
For sure.
00:36:49.408 --> 00:36:50.078
absolutely.
00:36:50.078 --> 00:36:50.838
Long term, yeah.
00:36:50.838 --> 00:36:53.928
A couple of the replies have been,"Oh my goodness, that was, that was so helpful." Mm.
00:36:54.338 --> 00:37:13.188
"I am not able to work with you right now, but here's-" Mm"the way in which I wanna work with you in the future." And yes, not all of those people will come back, but that is somebody who has, who is genuinely grateful, who's given me more circumstances about where they are, who I'm now front of mind with in a way that cuts through everybody else who's coming into their inbox.
00:37:13.198 --> 00:37:19.918
So yeah- Yeah I do think it's, it's genuinely helpful, and I would say as well, you said about being intentional.
00:37:19.958 --> 00:37:36.928
I think as you were speaking, I was just thinking to myself, I think the way I approach it is if I'm automating this, if I'm evergreening this, if I'm, making something else more simple, if I'm using AI for this, what is it allowing me to do instead?
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:40.218
And sometimes that might be going to my kid's sports day, right?
00:37:40.228 --> 00:37:50.888
But there are other times- Mm where it will be, being able to engage with somebody one-to-one in what is technically a lower price product sales process, which wouldn't have been feasible before.
00:37:50.908 --> 00:37:52.068
So yeah.
00:37:52.068 --> 00:37:52.378
Yeah.
00:37:52.498 --> 00:37:52.808
yeah.
00:37:52.848 --> 00:37:59.248
Always thinking about what it's bringing to you and your clients, both, you in work and in your personal life as well.
00:37:59.557 --> 00:38:02.317
Yeah but not being afraid automation, of AI.
00:38:02.907 --> 00:38:03.387
so what...
00:38:03.397 --> 00:38:05.437
Mm Listen, Nadine, I wanna be respectful of your time.
00:38:05.437 --> 00:38:07.817
Where, who should come and find you and where should they go?
00:38:08.317 --> 00:38:11.607
so you can, ideally track me down on my website.
00:38:11.607 --> 00:38:12.837
I think that's the best spot.
00:38:13.297 --> 00:38:14.672
you get a- And we'll put that in the show notes, yeah.
00:38:14.672 --> 00:38:14.717
Yeah.
00:38:14.717 --> 00:38:17.417
You get a pretty good idea of, my approach to things.
00:38:17.467 --> 00:38:34.869
Definitely check out the audience survey builder, particularly if you're in the 36% of people who have- who I've surveyed in my, State of the Customer Report recently, who said they haven't ever, like, have never surveyed their audience, or more than a year ago.
00:38:35.439 --> 00:38:35.710
Mm-hmm.
00:38:35.710 --> 00:38:44.649
So if that's you, no shame, but make sure you grab those questions and have a look how you can package them and get them off to your, to your audience.
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:48.519
And, while you're there, definitely check out the State of the Customer Report.
00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:55.250
It is, my yearly big survey that, surveys the online business space from- Yeah two perspectives.
00:38:55.409 --> 00:39:06.819
So what everyone answers, both from a business owner perspective and then I flip the coin and they answer as someone who buys products, joins memberships, masterminds- Yeah in the online business space.
00:39:06.859 --> 00:39:12.250
And the gaps and opportunities that came from that are pretty mind-blowing.
00:39:12.259 --> 00:39:18.129
And if you embrace them, you can definitely make them your unfair advantage in the online space.
00:39:18.139 --> 00:39:18.149
Mm.
00:39:18.469 --> 00:39:18.559
So, yeah.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:18.619
I'm gonna go check that out.
00:39:18.619 --> 00:39:19.899
I'm gonna go check that out.
00:39:20.169 --> 00:39:28.769
One final question for you, Nadine, before you go- Mm-hmm which I didn't ask earlier, is what are the most effective ways you've found of incentivizing people to answer a survey?
00:39:29.489 --> 00:39:30.109
Mm.
00:39:30.279 --> 00:39:37.689
I definitely believe incentivizing to respond, works and blows up your response rate, because we're all time poor.
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:47.730
So what has worked really well for my clients is usually giving away a nice juicy prize that is highly relevant and highly irresistible for the audience.
00:39:47.739 --> 00:39:57.199
So for example, if you have a lot of female business owners as your demographic, like Lululemon, I don't know, is that- yeah Like, the active wear brand.
00:39:57.250 --> 00:39:59.659
That's worked really well, like a gift voucher.
00:40:00.269 --> 00:40:02.319
it works because it's, global.
00:40:02.339 --> 00:40:07.299
Or, some clients also have donated to the respondent's charity of choice.
00:40:07.809 --> 00:40:08.519
Mm.
00:40:08.739 --> 00:40:09.639
So that could be something.
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:15.230
Again, it, have a think about what aligns with your audience and- Yeah your business and your beliefs.
00:40:15.230 --> 00:40:23.679
So there's lots and lots of different ways, and it doesn't have to break the bank, but it definitely pays off to incentivize people, because it just makes them pay attention.
00:40:24.439 --> 00:40:25.159
Absolutely.
00:40:25.259 --> 00:40:25.969
Okay, great.
00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:26.009
Mm-hmm.
00:40:26.019 --> 00:40:26.949
to get your feedback on that.
00:40:27.309 --> 00:40:32.219
Okay, Nadine, well, we will include all of your notes in the, in the show notes here, all of your links, rather.
00:40:32.529 --> 00:40:41.230
I know, like I mentioned, the, the survey builder, particularly definitely one for everyone to check out, whether you, or whether or not you've done customer listening before.
00:40:41.589 --> 00:40:43.139
and yeah, thank you so much for your time today.
00:40:43.149 --> 00:40:43.159
Mm.
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:45.500
I know it's late where you are, so thank you for joining us.
00:40:46.379 --> 00:40:47.739
Thanks so much for having me, Charlotte.
