Building a Creative Practice that Lasts w/ Loveis Wise

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Hi everybody, welcome.
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I'm so excited to kick off season three of Art Storic Conversations with this conversation.
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And before we dive in, I want to give you some context about what's coming this season.
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Season three is all about the real work of building sustainable creative practices.
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Over the next few months, we'll be taking talking to creatives about community as infrastructure, long-term projects, craft development, and what it actually takes to make creative work last.
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These conversations will be released as podcast episodes starting in the fall, but we're recording them live so you can be part of the dialogue.
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Today we're starting with Love is Wise, and I couldn't think of a better way to begin this season.
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Hi, lovers! Thank you so much for being here and for being our first season three guest.
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Um, before we get into the questions, tell us what you're working on right now and what's been on your mind lately about your creative practice.
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Oh, thank you so much for having me.
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Um what have I been working on right now?
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Right now, I'm presently working on an Oracle deck project, which is going pretty slow and sweet.
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And it's called the Quilted Oracle Deck.
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It's all about grief work, earthwork, um my healing journey.
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As someone who's experienced a lot of compounded grief over the last couple of years.
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Um, this deck has provided like a space for me to just kill and to just like hyper focus and release.
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Um, so yeah, that's something I've been working on.
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And your second question was sorry.
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That's it.
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That was yeah, that was it.
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That was all of it.
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What are you working on right now?
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But wait, I want to slow that down.
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Yeah.
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Quilted, like a quilted oracle deck, is that kind of like um tapping into the quilts that like African Americans have made to preserve history, or where does the word quilt come from in that?
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It definitely does stem from that.
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I mean, I've found like the Bijaned um like uh quilts recently like have been a source of deep um inspiration for me.
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And so I love the practice of just like weaving and collaging materials together.
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And I feel like that's been like such a medicine in my work is just like creating all of these like kind of weave woven collage kind of assortment of pieces and materials and different like uh materials essentially, and just like kind of weaving them together.
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Yeah, I okay, mind blown right right off the gate because I love that you are able to zoom in and extract or pull out or just be with the fact that a lot of the collage in your work really does mirror this ancestral practice of preserving memory through bringing different elements together.
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Yeah, okay, that's gonna be a great conversation, y'all.
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I love that.
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Okay, so take us back to like the beginning.
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How did you get into illustration professionally?
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Was there a specific moment when you decided, like, okay, this is what I'm doing?
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Oh, yeah.
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So I've been drawing and curious about illustration way before I knew what illustration was.
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And that started for me like when I was super young.
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Um, my dad was an artist and he was mainly a photographer, but he was very curious about painting and abstract art.
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And would often take me to see art shows.
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Like whenever we would spend time together, we would just go see art all the time.
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And so I was like very curious about drawing and making like I was making zines before I knew that they were zines.
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Like I was making my own comic strips, um, and just like drawing from life and like photographs that we would have around the house.
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Um, since I was probably like five or six.
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And then after high school, I was like, I want to be an artist.
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And I think I got on Instagram and there were so many black illustrators like kind of popping off and they're on the scene.
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And I was like, Oh, I want to do that, but I kind of want to do fine art.
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So I like applied to this art school in Philly.
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I grew up in DC and I went to the school, cart U Arts, and I found my way in the illustration program.
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Like I had a bunch of illustrator homies, and I was like, oh, this is illustration.
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I actually want to do that.
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Um, because that feels a lot more fruitful than fine arts.
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Well, at least that fine art department.
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Um, and yeah, I just knew that that was what I wanted to do, and I was gonna start working as soon as I could.
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And I started working in my field in my sophomore year of college.
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Okay, shout out to DC, shout out to Philly.
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I'm a Philly native myself.
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Um shout out to UR.
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Okay, I feel like like that like whole northeast soil is just so like all of the minerals in the soil really speak to each other.
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All the roots kind of speak to each other, and we kind of get pulled up and down.
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Cause I went to college at uh Morgan State in Baltimore.
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So it's always a like a nice little um migratory route up and down.
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Okay, so like you were making zines, you were making comic strips, you kind of always knew like something about that visual, clairvoyant almost medicine was something that always kind of came through you.
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Did you have like a side hustle phase?
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Like how long did that last?
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Absolutely.
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I mean, it feels like it was so instantaneous, like that process, but it really wasn't.
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Like I was what brought me to Philly was the fact that when I was in DC, I knew that the only way that I could do what I needed to do and to become the person that I wanted to be was by like shaping some sort of change and getting out of home.
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Because at that time, and DC is very creative, but I'm not really tapped into that scene right now because I've been away for so long.
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But at that time, it didn't really feel so creative for me.
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I was like, all of my homies are like my high school friends would do the same kind of route.
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And I was like, I'm I can't get locked into the same route.
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I need to get out of this space and learn something else.
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But before that, I was working retail.
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Like I worked so many retail jobs, I was like in community college after um high school because I wasn't the best student.
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So I was like, who will take me if I don't go to community college?
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But during that time of exploring my practice, I was like working retail, I was working like three different jobs.
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Um, and then I was like, actually, I can't do this.
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I don't want to work a million and one jobs.
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I need to be doing the thing I know I can do.
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And so applying to art school and like kind of I felt like I charmed my way into art school in a lot of ways.
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Because I was just like, all right, if I go to this interview, they are literally they're just gonna accept me because why wouldn't they?
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Like, I don't know, it's just like having the balls to just like believe in yourself so much, like I was very delusional, but it it works out to be delusional sometimes.
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Yeah, audacity goes a very, very long way.
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Yeah, and I've I I also resonate with that bit about like you know, everybody relates to Philly as this like completely artistic place, but like when you're from the city, it takes real excavation and commitment to locate those layers, especially when you leave.
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Like I haven't lived in Philly since literally my senior year of high school, right?
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But I go back like often and like in the past recent years that I've been going back, I've been meeting the city that everybody talks about.
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And I'm like, oh, I because I am from here, huh?
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Yeah.
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But no, good, continue.
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I was just saying, like, Philly really created my creative spirit.
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I think it was like a that was a that's a home base for me in so many ways.
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Because I I felt like that part of my spirit was unlocked when I moved there.
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And the people that I met, this the art there is insane.
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The artists that live there, the affordability that is created there really transformed my way of thinking.
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Yeah, and crazy because I feel the exact same way about like Baltimore, DC.
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Uh, I was at Morgan around like 2015, 2016, 2017.
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And so like that DC um art show pocket, like a lot of those folks like moved up and to New York and started going to like Parsons and things like that.
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But like when I was there, it was like, oh, um, I'm seeing the first unfurling of who like I am outside of the container and environment of Philly where I was mainly around who I was supposed to be.
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Right.
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So it's really interesting how we'd be like, I don't know, we'd just be pollinating each other, going up and down.
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But I love that.
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Shout out to working retail jobs, ain't nothing wrong with it, you know.
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Okay, we have to get somewhere.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So you spoke you spoke about it a little bit, but let's like zoom in on that moment that made you feel ready to fully commit.
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Was it when you applied to art school and you had like that audacity?
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Yeah, I had that audacity for sure.
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And I think I took out so many loans.
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Like my mom was like, I'm only paying for the first, I'm only like taking out a loan for the first year of school.
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And I was like, all right, if I'm gonna do this, I have to make it worth something.
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And that was like my goal, was like I was like, I have to prove to her that this is worth the investment in some way.
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And it kind of put like a battery in my back because I was like, if I don't prove that I'm doing this and like I'm actually like putting her investment in the right place, um like it's all for nothing.
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Like, so for me it felt like life or death.
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And I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta like really if I'm gonna do it, I have to do it well.
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And that's also just me being a Capricorn and being like, all right, I have to make shit happen um because there's no other way for me.
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Um, and I cannot move back home.
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At least like while I'm here, like I it's it's not happening.
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So I don't know, every year like I would do better and better.
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And for some reason my mom still kept taking out those loans.
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And I was like, okay, I have to make it pop.
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So I think by the end of my sophomore year, I was like, oh, like a teacher was just like planting a seed in my ear and was like, hey, like y'all could really work right now if you wanted to.
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And I was like, okay, and I think I was the only person in my class that really took him seriously and was like, oh, I'm gonna make this happen.
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So I developed a portfolio and I started putting my work online.
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And then I would tag a bunch of art um like magazines and publications and businesses that I wanted to work for, like like companies and stuff.
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But I was like, this is when people would use the hashtag a lot more.
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So I'd be like, oh, like Apple, I don't know, Buzzfeed, whatever, refinery 29.
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And then I started also doing, like I also got into making these charts.
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And I'd be like, all right, this is this upcoming year, I'm going to work for this company or I'm going to like do this kind of a thing.
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And I had no experience at all, but I was just like, oh, I'm gonna do this, and this is what my life is gonna look like, and this is what my career is gonna look like, and my mental health is gonna look like.
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Like I was just like, this is what I want, just kind of directing the universe in that way.
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And then um, I think like I came back from my winter break that January, and my email, I I randomly received like an email from an art director who was like, Oh, I found you online.
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Could you do this thing for Refinery29's Instagram?
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And I was like, that's crazy.
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Uh yeah, I will.
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And it was my first job, and they had such a huge reach, and like that project landed me more clients.
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Like I got hit up to do a piece for BuzzFeed, and then from there it was like hard to network for something for the PowerPoirs, which was like a crazy dream.
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Um, and then yeah, it just kept spiraling, like it just kept getting bigger and bigger.
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Like I was doing murals by I think I was by the fourth month of my career, which is kind of wild.
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Um and so yeah, and then it just kept going.
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Like every day I'd be like, what the fuck is happening?
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I'm also a student.
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And so my teachers were like, because I'd be like, How do I navigate this?
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Because a lot of my teachers were working.
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So I'd be like, Okay, how do I navigate this?
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How do I ask for money?
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A lot of my teachers were like white men.
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So they were just like, you need to ask for this amount.
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So I just got used to just like asking for the my like my fee from that standpoint and not expecting anything less.
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So I was like getting to, I think by the end of the year, I was able to pay my rent from just working on um my freelance stuff, which was insane.
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And yeah, at that point I was using like my loans, but at this, like I was able to pay my rent from just working.
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And it was insane.
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It was insane.
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I was also working like um like a little work study job at the time, which was also nice, but I was like, I'm ready to quit this job so I can just draw.
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And then yeah, so that's how I started drawing for a living, which is kind of silly, but like it's so sweet.
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It's silly in the it's so funny because this is like I'm drawing for a living every day, but it's like my favorite thing, and I I wouldn't do anything else.
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I mean, what a fucking journey.
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Your first job was refinery 29, 21.
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Yeah.
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Which what's the number?
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29.
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29.
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Okay, cool.
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Like, that's actually insane.
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Yeah, but I I think also I expect nothing less of a Capricorn um son, you know.
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And I also want to kind of like slow this down and ask, what's your mom's son sign?
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She's a cancer, period.
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Yeah.
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So we are very much the leg at the opposite.
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She just had to let you know from the gate, I'm not gonna mother you forever.
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All I got is this is this one year.
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And because you took that seriously and you did something with it, she kept going.
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She's like, okay, cool.
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You know, I'm thankful for that.
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Why my mom's always got to pump fake us out?
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I don't know.
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I know they love the pump fake a little bit because I I think she never seen me in that way, also, where I was like, I believe in this thing, and I I won't stop until and then yeah, it's I think that belief system too, because it's like it can go, it can go in so many different ways, and I've seen it in my career.
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It's just like I I love my will, like I I love my devotion to my craft.
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I love that I'm so like devoted to this shit, and that I I don't want to do anything else but make art in any capacity.
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And I think that's something I'm gonna hold for the rest of my life.
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But I also think that I have seen younger me, you know, feel like I had something to prove all the time and like work myself to the bone.
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And I don't and I think a lot of people do feel that way, especially if you're a marginalized person, trans, black, queer, whatever.
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It's just like, you know, we have something to prove and just overworking yourself and burning out.
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Like I've worked against burnout so many times, and that's something I don't want to ever get back into, and that's something I'm trying to remind myself of.
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So yeah.
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Sometimes it's uh it's it's medicine that's best taken in retrospect.
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Yeah, and um, I'm one of those people that's like the P in my PIMDAS, my please excuse my dear Aunt Sally, my order of operations is always gonna be my path, always gonna be my purpose.
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I got a Capricorn rising, so definitely fill you on that.
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Like, I don't care, I gotta show up.
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I gotta show, you know, yeah, but you know, to that point, you may have already said it, but I want to ask you if there's one thing that you could tell this era of you that was just starting out, any advice you could give them, what would it be?
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That's a beautiful question.
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Any advice that I would tell my younger self is to have really good boundaries.
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That's something I'm learning right now is to learn to let some shit go and to also like really like be so protective of my time and my energy and where it's going, but also not to like think that that and be having boundaries with myself because I remember there were days I worked 12 hours like five, six days a week.
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That's not okay.
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But I was like, I must, like all these people are hiring me.
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I don't know when the money is gonna stop.
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And I don't know, I don't I just wouldn't do that to myself.
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Like, I deserve so much more than that.
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I need to be outside, I need to be in nature, I need to go for walks, I get my best ideas when I'm not looking at my screen and I literally have to step outside for a couple of hours.
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Like almost always I am like I'll be like, what the fuck does this need to look like?
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And I'll try to work it out and then I'll discard it and I'll be like, all right, it is what it is.
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I'll go outside and I'm like, I'll see something and I'm like, that's what it needs to be.
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Like, that's exactly what it needs to be.
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And so I'll have I would have better boundaries with myself.
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Yeah, I love that.
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I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a toxic advocate for the version of you that doesn't have good boundaries.
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Have you seen like um solar opposites?
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No, but I keep hearing about it.
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Okay, so for for you and for all of those uh listening who haven't seen solar opposites, it's like this cartoon show made by the same creators of like Rick and Morty.
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And it's kind of like about these like aliens that crash land to earth or whatever.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:49.599
And there's one alien, his name's Corvo, and he's like the the leader of their little squad.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:20:06.240
And when he gets like, he's like really neurotic, he has to be like a Virgo, but like when he gets like an Aquarius, I don't know, but like when he gets really anxious, there's like these little meat meets that kind of like pop out of his skin, and he so I call it like he just starts kind of Corvoing.
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:11.119
It's like he's neurotic, and I feel like, yeah, it's right.
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:12.960
Like I said, Virgo Mars.
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:37.119
So I feel like I feel like um those like stints where you're going for like, you know, hours and sometimes 12-hour days for like week stretches, and there's like, you know, it's hard to have that boundary, especially when your career is your passion and your purpose and there's medicine in it for you.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:52.160
So you need those like seasons where you're just like corvoing and like going way too hard, grinding to the bone, and trying to figure out like how to human against your genius or along with your genius.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:58.400
And there's something about that contrast that makes this season that you're in now with the boundaries for yourself.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:09.279
And well, hey, I don't exist on an island, and there's a whole ecosystem that's supporting me that makes it so like more vibrant and beautiful.
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:13.519
So for all of the emerging artists listening, have great boundaries.
00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:21.519
And I think also I'm saying, like, if you don't sometimes, then there might be medicine in that too, which might not be a good message.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:23.359
No, this is not real.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.640
So it is medicine in that though.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.599
Like, I agree.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:44.319
Like, I think if I didn't work those 12-hour days, I and it's so bad, but because I don't really, I don't think that that's the only way, but I do think that I did set some shit up for my future self.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:52.160
Like I love that my 20, I was probably like 22 or so.
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:58.400
My 22 year old self really was like on it, was like girl bossing.
00:21:58.720 --> 00:21:59.839
That's my girl boss.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:09.839
Self is just like that person was just like, all right, we're doing this, we're making this happen, we're gonna answer these emails.
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:14.000
I had like I was always on top of everything.
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:17.039
And now I find myself now.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:29.200
I call this like my little old man self, which is me at 31, where I'm just like coasting and like going to like the park in the middle of the day.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:29.759
Right.
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:36.400
And like staring at flowers, crying at trees, and like drawing.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:40.240
That's like I really set it up so my life could look like that.
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.039
And that's kind of I want to I want a mix of that now.
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:47.359
Like I'm like, oh, there's medicine and like working hard and there's something beautiful about it.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.319
And there's also medicine and taking that time.
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:56.559
You know, and like if we look at it, if we look at our life through heaven's eyes, shout out to Prince of Egypt.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:04.240
It's kind of like, you know, at like 22, that's what you that's kind of the hubris you should have.
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:14.079
That's the audacity, the like self-centeredness, the like, you know, Capricorn energy, the like can't nothing stop me.
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:14.880
I'm all the way up.
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:17.519
You should have the like sleep.
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:18.160
What is that?
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.359
You're still, you know what I mean?
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:25.920
Like you have like all your minerals in your body from like when you're like eight, you know, for real.
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:28.880
But now my body is paying for it, you know.
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:29.759
Exactly.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:36.640
Like I tell my students, because I I teach um a gaggle of sophomores right now.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:40.319
And I'm always like, y'all need to stretch.
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.759
Like, please, you need to go for walks.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:48.160
You cannot just sit hunched over your computer.
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.240
Like my eyesight is different.
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:51.759
Like, I used to have great vision.
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.359
Now I have to wear glasses.
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:58.720
I should be wearing them right now, but like mainly because I'm like staring at my screen.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:03.920
Like, there's so many chronic health things that I didn't think about that would come with this career.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.920
Your work has a really distinctive style.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:09.759
How did you develop that?
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:13.200
Was it intentional or did it emerge like over time?
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.799
Oh, thank you so much.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:22.000
Um, it really was developed and it's still, I think it's still developing in some ways.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:35.359
But when I first started like drawing in that way and the way that you know it to be now, or like this developing style, I was just like inspired by so many artists that I was falling in love with.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:44.720
Like I was looking at Jacob Lawrence's work, I was looking at figurative drawings and paintings of like Meglen Thomas and like Charles White.
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.240
I've always loved Frida Kahlo's work and self-portraiture.
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:50.079
Like I've always been curious about that.
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:53.680
And like the lexicon that she's created within her work.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:01.839
I was getting into a lot of like narrative artists and like people that would create work that spoke to different stories and like mythology.
00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:09.759
And yeah, so I was like, my style was kind of born from just like really stealing things that I love from artists that I love.
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:13.039
And I think that's what all artists do inherently.
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:26.640
It's like we steal little bits of things from artists that we love and then kind of create our own world from that without like actually stealing and plagiarizing someone's work, but like stealing the things that feel the most joyful and like making it our own.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.519
And so, yeah, that's how I was born.
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:37.920
I think when I look back at my work when I was a student, my work was a lot more subdued in color, like it wasn't as like vibrant.
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:43.119
And now I'm always choosing color that feels like more bold and vivacious.
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:49.279
And I think that also might be because when I was younger, I wasn't very comfortable with being seen.
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:51.279
So everything felt a lot more muted.
00:25:51.759 --> 00:26:05.920
Whereas now, most of my palette, like in my day-to-day life, I'm wearing black or I'll wear it all white, or I'll wear like I'm very like toned down with like how I present in the world.
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:21.119
But my art feels very vibrant and just like loud, and like I'm a lot more comfortable with being seen and taking up space and to and commanding someone's eye.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:25.200
And um, yeah, I feel like that's a lot of like what I'm calling in.
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:41.119
And the work feels like play and like joy, and like it just touches on like I don't know, it touches around those like joyous ed edges of a person, and that's kind of like what I'm trying to speak to in the work that I'm making.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:45.519
Sorry, that was long-winded as hell.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.559
Uh, it was actually really succinct.
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:50.079
Oh, thank you.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:54.799
It it was, it was scenic, but succinct, and I appreciate that.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.799
Um, because that means that it was true and and genuine.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:13.680
And I really love that what you're pointing to is that like your own internal development and excavation and self-acceptance is breathing through the medicine of your work, which is just yeah, as God intended.
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:17.119
Yes, you know, yeah.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:23.920
How do you balance developing a recognizable style with wanting to try new things?
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:27.920
Try all the things, try it all.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:30.160
You're gonna make so many mistakes.
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:36.319
I change my style all the time, and I don't care about being in one lane.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:38.000
Like, I never want to stay in one lane.
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:45.200
Like, I'll play with paper, I'll play with painting, I'll play with digital, I'll play with um crayons.
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.359
Anything that my hands want to do, I'll let myself do it.
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:53.920
And if I want to draw in a different way, I let myself I give myself permission to do it.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:00.720
Like right now, I'm playing with um ceramics and I'm kind of developing my style with play.
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:08.960
And that's been so healing because I'm like I'm building these shapes out um and figuring out my own shape language.
00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:14.880
And so yeah, anyone that is like, all right, I like this style.
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:26.079
Like my students are often like, I like like a really rendered painterly style, but I also love to just like draw with line, or I like to like do all these things.
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.000
I'm just like, do it, do it.
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.519
It's all gonna look and feel like you at the end of the day.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:44.880
I love that as like uh as like a North Star anchor point of like not just encouraging the play, but also reminding them that what whatever their instinct is is a reflection of who they are.
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:49.519
So they're figuring out how to translate who they are through these different mediums.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:51.440
So there is no wrong answer.
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:52.640
You're just playing.
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:58.799
You know, you might get in you might get in the pocket where you like lines this week, but next week you might like squares.
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:03.440
And like you're just playing, you're finding you in these shapes and these mediums.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:04.160
Okay.
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:07.119
We got to get serious now.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:12.160
You said it, you said it a little bit before.
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.880
But let's talk about the business side of all of this, okay?
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:25.119
I think one of the key things you mentioned earlier was tagging, tagging places as you're like posting your work, right?
00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:29.279
As a really accessible way of finding clients.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:30.720
How do you do that now?
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:36.000
And maybe more importantly, how do you find the right clients who value your work?
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.559
Oh, beautiful question.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:51.839
So, how I'm reaching out to clients now, I have the pleasure of having two great support systems in my agents that have a children's book literary agent who's wonderful.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:55.680
We've been together since I graduated college.
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:01.839
And he's the one who planted the seed in me to create children's books, which was always a dream.
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.359
But I never thought I could do it, which is so wild.
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:06.960
And he's like, You're doing it.
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:08.480
You should just do it.
00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:15.839
And I now have almost like 10 10 picture books under my belt with major publishers.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.119
And um, I have a book coming out, soft plug.
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:29.440
I have a book coming out in April called Hello Beautiful, um, with Tracy and Todd, who's a phenomenal writer, just iconic, and it's a baby book.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:39.680
And then I have a really great agent currently who has like a smaller boutique agency filled with like some of my favorite artists of all time.
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.680
And so we often like they're seeking out work for me.
00:30:43.920 --> 00:31:00.960
Sometimes folks will come directly to me, but sometimes like I might see something and I'm like, oh, I think we should do this, and I'll cold call an um an art director or someone that I'm like curious about working with, which is like, I think all people should do that.
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:05.279
Like, I got out of the habit of that, of cold emailing people.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:11.279
And I really think it showed in the work that I was making, like and not being able to call in things.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:17.920
And I like folks love my agents, but also I think they would much rather hear from me with like reaching out.
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:30.079
So I don't know, I think it's it just requires like doing some research on finding boards that you connect with or companies or whoever art directors that you connect with connect with and that feel heart aligned.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:38.559
It's just like really doing that research, making space and time for that and getting clear about who you want to work with and who you want to be associated with.
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:43.920
Yeah, there's some companies that I'm like, I don't think ethically I would ever work with again.
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.839
But there are some folks that I'm like, oh, I love everything that you're doing.
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:54.400
Like just speaking more politically, there's like some um folks that I'm like, oh, I would love to be involved with that.
00:31:54.640 --> 00:32:00.240
And so I would start with just like making a list and then researching who those art directors are.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:13.359
A lot of times, like artists will share, like if they did an editorial for let's say the New York Times or something, they'll post the piece and they'll be like, I'm so glad I got to work with this art director.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:14.799
And they'll tag them.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.519
And then you could just like follow that art director.
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:22.799
They're online because they want to make themselves available to artists who they want to work with.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:30.559
Um, and you could DM them or find their email and be like, hey, I've done some things that align with what you're doing.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:34.160
I would love to the opportunity to work with you.
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:35.359
And it's very simple.
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:37.279
Like people think it's a lot more complicated.
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:38.079
It's not.
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:45.920
It's so I wish more people knew how easy it is to just be like, hey, and also if they don't respond, it's okay.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:49.839
Like, I don't know, maybe you follow up in six months or something.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:54.640
Yeah, but like, you know, rejection is like the name of the game.
00:32:54.799 --> 00:33:02.400
Like, I feel like there's so many times where even I don't get projects and something else is like right around the corner.
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.119
But yeah, did that answer your question?
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:06.079
Absolutely.
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.599
I think you gave us like tiers of answers, right?
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:20.640
Like you responded from where you are now as far as having agents and people that go procure work for you, but then you definitely took your time underlining the power of the cold call.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.920
Like, people are not as inaccessible as you think they are.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:25.839
You're just afraid of cold calls.
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:26.960
That part.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.000
Yeah, literally.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:32.400
I'm putting together, yeah, I'm putting together a Europe tour for May.
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.039
So I'm doing a keynote in Stockholm.
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.279
Um, and thank you.
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:44.640
And I've just been emailing people because I'm trying to go to like Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Malmo, Berlin, and Lisbon.
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:57.440
So I've just been like emailing like, where are like the black archival institutions, places, bookshops, wherever, that are just people I want to chat with, even if it's through like Google Translate, and just emailing them.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:06.880
And the amount of yeses, the amount of not right now, the amount of our spring schedule is booked, but let's still get chocolate or something, is like, okay, cool.
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:10.400
It's literally just advocating for yourself.
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:18.639
Um that will always, and I love what you said about like people just mainly want to, okay, your agents are amazing, but they still want to hear from you.
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:32.320
So even alongside having representation, when folks get to that point, that like the power of how you see yourself and how you speak about your work will never um go away, will never be eclipsed.
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.400
Um, thank you so much for that.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:42.079
And you mentioned a little bit about um values and like some people's values mesh, some people's don't.
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:46.400
So, what's your process for evaluating whether a project is a good fit or not?
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:51.679
Ooh, I love to go with the barometer of like my gut.
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:56.719
I'm a person that I have like bodily responses to whatever is being presented to me.
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:05.760
So if someone is like, hey, we really want you to do, I don't know, wrap in paper for our spring collection, for example, or something like that.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:13.599
And if my body is like, oh, absolutely, yes, because almost always I'll be like, ooh, yeah, that feels great.
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.199
Or I'll be like, I don't know, I don't like that.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:27.280
And then every time I've like pushed up the like against the brain of my I don't know, I've it's always a no, like it's always a no.
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:37.119
And I like I remember times where I would like accept projects where I would have that feeling of being like, mm, I don't know, I'm not really like rocking with that.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:40.639
I've always been that feeling has always been proven right.
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.039
And I've never been like, dang, I wish I did that.
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.320
Like it's never dang, I wish I did that or whatever.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.599
Like it's always like, yeah, I shouldn't have done that.
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:57.760
But I I love when it always works out in the sense of whenever I'm like, oh yes, that's a thing, that's exactly what I want.
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:03.039
And the feeling comes into fruition through me making something I'm proud of.
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:13.679
Like I recently I'm I've been going through like burnout um over the last year or so, but I'm kind of like regaining that muscle again.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:24.400
Um, and I've been taking on a bunch of new projects, not at a pace that feels like beyond my control, but at a pace that feels like very, very on time.
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:32.559
And I'm noticing that feeling that I felt before, where it's like I'm making something and I'm like, oh, I'm so proud of this.
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:34.000
Like I love this.
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:35.199
This feels so good.
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:42.480
Like I'm making something I adore, and like I love that I get to be in conversation and like practice with this piece right now.
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:47.519
Because I feel like each piece that I make feels so alive, and I feel like a lot of artists might feel this way.
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:55.440
It's just like when you're drawing something, you're like seeing it happen in real time, and you're like, oh damn, like this is so alive, like this is a world within itself.
00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:58.800
I'm like, oh, I get the opportunity to be with this world right now.
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:00.960
And how special is that?
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:08.400
And so yeah, I've been learning to be more present with that feeling, and that impacts the projects that I take on.
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:17.039
And so that's like something I want to, I don't know, like if someone is thinking about that for themselves, maybe you consider that as like a baseline.
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:22.639
Like the somatic wisdom of it all, like how does your body itself feel?
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:31.519
Which you know is a completely different model than how we're taught to capitalize and uh and like monetize our gifts.
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:36.320
It's like, uh, well, what the numbers looking like, or who are these people connected to?
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:51.760
But really that that baseline of going with what kind of joy does this bring up for me, or what what in my body is responding to this pitch or to this invitation is just as valuable, if not more valuable information.
00:37:52.079 --> 00:38:03.760
Um, because yeah, like maybe there's a job that would pay more, but this job that lights you up is connected to a community that will stick with you and rock with you for projects to come.
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.360
So that value then becomes priceless.
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:08.400
Yeah.
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:09.039
Okay.
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.440
I'm trying to keep this over time.
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:18.079
So everything you just named is exactly what is unfolding right now.
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.519
That I'm like, oh yes, this is why I do what I do.
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.719
And actually, at first I was like, do I?
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:30.079
Because I was going through so much burnout and like working on things that wasn't sparking that for me.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:33.920
That I was like, damn, do I not like my job anymore?
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:38.239
And like I was having a lot of like chronic pain.
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.840
And I was like, maybe this job is like not good for me.
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:44.719
And I'm like, no, your nervous system is dysregulated.
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:49.679
You need to really take care of yourself and you need to be more mindful when you're doing the work that you're doing.
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:54.480
And I'm like, oh, that feeling of joy about what I'm doing has never left me.
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:57.840
I just needed to like come to the other end of the spiral.
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:11.679
And quick little little mini tangent, but the the past few weeks, um, I think I've been working with spatial designers.
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:19.360
I had a book talk here in Tucson, and one of like my closest friends, um, we like we like sisters from a different mista.
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:27.679
And um she is a steward of a lot of ancient African artifacts.
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:31.199
She likes sources, beautiful collections.
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:41.599
And you know, Tucson is one of those places that, you know, the art, the collector scene here is very like showroom, aka auction block.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:49.119
And she's been thinking, like, do I need to leave from here to take these pieces to a place where they need, where they can thrive?
00:39:49.280 --> 00:40:12.480
And I had this conversation with her that I feel like um is also something that's coming up from what you're saying, as far as you know, the worlds that you get to illustrate, that you get to champion, that you get to activate with color and lines and shape and reverence, is that like the work that you're creating is not something that's meant to be on the auction block.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:15.199
You are a steward for their next home.
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:18.079
It this is a real medicine, right?
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:28.559
There's something, there is something powerful about the way that you can transcribe something that's not happening in this realm.
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:37.760
And so, sure, there are boundaries around it that have commodified it, that have allowed it to be, you know, beneficial, but that's the heart of what you're doing.
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:48.639
And that's what I was telling her of like, you know, these aren't just like collector's items for someone to just have in their home to be like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, this is from Benin and this is from Togo.
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:54.079
And, you know, these are real living pieces with spirits.
00:40:54.480 --> 00:41:02.239
These are real living pieces with memory, and you're ushering them into their the next phase of their work.
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:10.000
And so it's not about who's going to pay the price, it's about who's going to safeguard and now steward these pieces.
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:11.679
And the same thing for your work, right?
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:15.519
It's like, this isn't this ain't no fucking auction block.
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:18.159
This is the highest bidder.
00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:28.400
This is like, you know, who's going to allow you to translate, if you're, you know, working with a client to translate the spirit that they're that they're channeling.
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:39.760
If it's your work, who's going to amplify the energy, the healing that you're putting out for that you're putting forth through these images, through these worlds, through these containers.
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:41.360
It's a very serious thing.
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:45.519
It's like what Fela Kutti said, like music is a very spiritual thing.
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:46.800
You don't play with that, right?
00:41:46.960 --> 00:42:07.840
So it's like a very, and I feel like it's such a damn, I'm tangent, but it's such a it's such a like uh an interesting thing being a creative entrepreneur that is tapped into um and that's tasked with transcribing unseen realms, right?
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:13.519
Because you have to consider your human, your livelihood, your descendants, you know what I mean?
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.159
A lot of this work don't come with a 401k.
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:18.000
No, it don't.
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:20.239
You gotta consider all of that.
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:28.719
But when you get stuck, love this, it's that you're coming back to the fact that you are a scribe, right?
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:31.840
So how do you keep your channel clear?
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:34.400
How do you keep your sight clear?
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:38.719
How do you keep your hands, the energy flowing out of your hands, out of your heart?
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:40.559
How do you stay connected?
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:41.440
You know?
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:43.519
Uh damn, soapboxing.
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:47.119
Uh no, I was living for every part of it.
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.960
That was so beautifully said and so on time.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.519
Um how do I keep things clear?
00:42:56.239 --> 00:43:02.480
I have to be in the space of grounding my body at all times.
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:04.480
Like that comes with the work.
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:14.800
I'm like every day I have to clear things out and I have to make sure I'm like activated from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet.
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.599
And I'm always mindful of like my hands.
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:21.920
And so I'm just like, all right, let me call in what I need to.
00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:34.000
I like to work a lot with like color magic in a way, whereas like if in any space, I'm like, all right, what color can I call in to help to ground in my energy?
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:37.840
Um, and so that's so much a part of my practice.
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:51.280
Um, spending a lot of time with listening and being in nature, meditating, deeply listening, um talking with my ancestors is like a deep one for me.
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:59.360
And I might not always make it to my altar, but I'll always tap into the altar and eat and be like, all right.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:08.639
can we what can I do to tap in and listen more clearly and show that to me in such a clear way that feels undeniable.
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:14.239
And so yeah it's that's something I have to do every day.
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:20.239
And I know what it's like when I'm not doing that and I I'm always just like spiraling out of control.
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:27.840
And then I'm like, oh it's because I'm not clear right now and I'm like not grounding myself or listening.
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:29.920
Um and so yeah.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:32.000
Yeah exactly.
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:58.320
Sorry I didn't mean to to but no I loved it speaking you were speaking to a real I think conundrum that that we have as like you know quote unquote marginalized people in these industries that are fundamentally extractive and that want us that want to like suck out this genius and contort it into something that is commodified.
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:08.400
And from the moment what I'm hearing throughout this conversation is that from the moment that you begin your work you've always had the reins of your genius.
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:12.000
You've always had the audacity to believe in yourself.
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:21.840
And of course like along the ways and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, that kind of doles or that kind of you know our eyesight get a little questionable.
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:57.280
But um I just wanted to like underscore that cool we we you know we um we're within modernity right we modern we contemporaries so we know all the things we do all the things um but also it's that this gift is not just yours this gift is something that I'm sure came down through like you said your father was an artist right so it's tapping back into the the the river that gave birth to your site when you start to feel like I think I need my glasses.
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:46.880
Exactly yes so um one thing our community really does need to hear about is how you price your work do I price my work yeah great question um I love asking friends and I love tapping in with my artists designer homies um mentors who are doing this work um that really helps me one thing I was like earlier on in my career when I was just doing this with myself and not with the agent at all um I would ask my teachers but sometimes they didn't work on certain projects so they didn't really have the insight.
00:46:47.199 --> 00:47:00.719
So I would kind of just do this sneaky little thing where I'd be like they'd be like what's your budget and I'd be like well what's your budget and we kind of go back and forth like Spider-Man like pointing at each other.
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:21.840
But um I would kind of work around that and I would kind of just start to be like okay well I know if this person hired me for an editorial piece for$500 you know um I'm asking for more and I'm also being aware of how long it might take me to do something.
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:58.480
It's like if I'm working if I give myself a number being like all right like for a while I was like my baseline at minimum is$750 on on uh any project that's like the minimum for me because I know that like if I work for less than that unless I'm doing something like more pro bono or just like feel super super like hard aligned and they don't really have the budget um I'm like that's kind of like a nice minimum for me for me to work on something and give that my space and time.
00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:03.199
And I I kind of have a good sense of like how many hours it might take for me to work on something.
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:12.800
So I think that's something for artists to consider is to be like really get good about what your baseline number budget might be.
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:31.039
Um tapping in with community I know a lot of artists who I might not be in direct community with but they'll reach out and be like hey like I saw that you work for XYZ may I ask how much you charge them for that thing.
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:45.280
And like I'm always down to be like yes when I work for Disney this is how much or that when I work for whoever this is how much I charge them and being super transparent about that rate.
00:48:47.679 --> 00:49:26.239
Okay I love that I love that you have a baseline and I love that you're underscoring and inviting our community to really consider how much effort and time it takes to do the thing yeah I think um I'm like approaching this season of public speaking and one thing my um my mentor has been telling me is like well Saki you got to think about the years it took for you to get this knowledge into your body the time that it's gonna take you to tailor this for this event um like all of that like padded stuff not just the well I'm only speaking for like 45 minutes.
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:43.280
Like don't just whittle it down to the deliverable consider the ecosystem that it took you to deliver it um that is worth money that's worth time because you could be doing anything you know really good and time is so valuable.
00:49:43.599 --> 00:50:06.960
Yeah oh my God I think that's something I've been contending with over the last couple of years is like oh my god my time is so valuable how I use my time even my downtime I'm so boundaried around how I use my downtime so I'm like okay I could be using this time towards working on a project or whatever.
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:14.559
And so if I'm being brought into a space I'm like I have to really consider so much of like how I want to spend it.
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:17.199
And I'm glad I get to spend this time with you.
00:50:17.440 --> 00:51:23.199
Yes likewise thank you so much for being here um I think also as you continue to develop in you know your craft like you've you've worked with uh your name ring bells you know so your yes your yes like reverberates and it resonates so with so then I'm wondering let me pitch it back to you because this I that was an assumption a bit right do you consider if the projects that are being pitched to you or the invitations are in alignment with the ecosystem of work that you want to be known for does that make sense ooh yes absolutely come on I think it's like that's something I definitely consider is like do I want to be known for this project because there have been some companies that I work with that I'm like oh I really hate that I did that because it does not align with my vision and it does not align with my heart.
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:47.760
Not the little eye emojis um it does not align with what I desire but then there's like some folks that I'm like oh my God of course I want to be associated with this thing that feels super hard aligned and it's like really values and respects earth and humanity and nature and queerness and transness in such a beautiful way.
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:52.639
So there's like so many things that I'm considering when I'm like working on something.
00:51:53.440 --> 00:52:17.920
Yeah, for sure because you know it's it's such a hard thing to gauge at some points too because the the client that you said yes to or the project that you said yes to things happen in the world and then other faces come out and then you're like that's not what I said yes to like maybe a year or two ago before this thing happened.
00:52:18.239 --> 00:53:23.760
So interesting okay so to that point let's talk about like navigating industry shifts and so the creative industries are constantly shifting tools change platforms change what clients want changes how do you stay grounded when everything around you is in flux that's that's a really great question and that's something I have been navigating I mean we I know you and I we spoke about like how AI impacts industry especially this industry um so many different industries but in my field I'm noticing how it shifted how people reach out to me like things are like certain clients have not reached out in the same way as before because of the impact of AI and like people being like oh I can just like generate you know a design with AI which is insane and not cool.
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:34.079
But um but it's also like helped me so much in the aforementioned like question that you had about like choosing clients that feel more line.
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:47.599
Like now I'm like oh it's kind of a beauty because I get to have better discernment about who I'm spending my time with and who I'm sharing my craft with and like the kind of folks that I want to work with and that I value.
00:53:48.480 --> 00:54:10.320
So that's been mad cool in a way and I've found that like I've been able to work on more community centered like projects and work with folks like that feel a lot more in closer vicinity instead of it feeling so much more bigger like a conglomerate TM which is like you know I love the budget.
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:28.000
I love a the budget of a conglomerate TM you know I'm not it's not above me that I'm like because we got built some hair but also I love like being able to make stuff for like a human a person or people a team of folks that like align with my heart.
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:52.239
Yeah and it's it's interesting because to the point of the like sharpening the discernment the people that are literally just in it for the extraction there's no avenue for them like go extract you know cool I'm a I'm a I'm a real like energy person.
00:54:52.320 --> 00:55:03.440
So I feel like okay if that's what you want your karmic energy to be tied up in, you know, these data centers, these XYZs, then go for it, have fun.
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:46.880
But then it also just clarifies the field of people who really respect the heart the craft the genius the river of a bloodline that you're flowing in and that you're transcribing so you know like yes beautiful yes um do do do do do cool so you've built a practice that sustains you over time what does sustainable actually mean to you not just financially but in all the ways that matter I love that question.
00:55:47.199 --> 00:56:14.079
Um sustainable practice feels like one where I I feel resourced in my energy I feel resourced in my presence with it because before I think when I was younger I'd be like oh I want to build legacy I want to build something I'd never seen in my family like I did not grow up with money or like resources like that.
00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:32.079
Like I really watched my family struggle in so many different ways and I was like I want more than that but I think when I was younger I thought that sustainability meant having money for every situation and like having the sustainability of financials.
00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:49.119
Whereas like when things got really difficult in my life my friends were my biggest support and not even just in a financial way but like resourced with love and tenderness and just care.
00:56:50.159 --> 00:57:12.000
And I also learned that that also exists in my work and so much like my my artwork really taught me how to find that kindness and that love for myself and the world again and just finding a sense of like uh peace and hope in so much in so many ways.
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:20.880
Like I feel like I learned that so that's what I want my practice to feel like like how I treat myself and how I treat the work that I'm making.
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:38.320
It's like always in reverence to the things the medicine of the work being present with it and aware of it and also knowing that I'm dead in so many other ways that go beyond financial stuff.
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:40.800
You know it has to mean much more than that.
00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:46.320
Yeah you get to go out to the park and draw in the middle of the day.
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:54.239
I mean hey my partner is so funny because she's like I really wish that I had as much time as you do.
00:57:56.480 --> 00:59:44.079
And I was like damn that's so real I do have time like I have a lot of time to work on my my practice and also go on field trips every week alone and like just and it's a it's a joy like the this work has really afforded me that and I I won't take that for granted no seriously my partner is a Capricorn son and um a surgical tech so she just be in surgery all the time right yeah literally and you know my life I haven't worked in a brick and mortar since 2020 right and so I do have a lot of time but I think that like like you were mentioning earlier like how it's spent is still part of the work yeah right the internal excavation the for me on my side the like writing for you and your side the drawing the like going on field trips I'm such a field trip person like I need to learn I need to learn something I need to stretch my mind yeah and it's such a quantifiable um resource for like okay making keeping your career sustainable right you have to keep your mind fresh especially amidst like all of the crumbleness crumbling of like colonial empires that are constantly happening around us or genocides that are constantly happening around us it's like someone has to do the hard work of not becoming like deafeningly pessimistic um and you know like that's a real currency um for sure.
00:59:44.559 --> 01:01:15.599
Okay if you could sit down with yourself five or ten years ago what would you tell that version of you about building a creative practice oh my god I would say uh do a really good job of investing financially low key um yeah I I wish that I invested a lot but that's just my responsible self which is important um creatively I would tell myself five years ago five to ten years ago keep doing it I don't think I would change anything apart from the financial investing thing keep doing your thing keep making the art that fuse you know that things will pay off like eventually you'll be so proud of yourself and also to know that everything happens exactly as it was designed I'm like everything that has happened in my life and that is happening happened exactly as I needed to because I wrote it so I'm thankful for the way that I wrote things as they were and that I am an active participant in my life and like what is happening and so yeah that's the only thing I would really say come on now.
01:01:15.920 --> 01:02:04.639
I love it no regrets no regrets okay what's one thing you think emerging creators worry about too much and then what's one thing you think that they don't worry about enough I think they worry about AI stealing jobs and losing um the like the death of industries, the death of creativity and I think we should worry more about how we sustain ourselves in our creative practices and how how we show up like our own belief systems I think is something that I think that folks are not worried enough about.
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:14.159
It's like how do you believe in your what you're doing and what you came here to do and like can you feed more love into your practice?
01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:42.239
Can you feed more love into what you're actually doing and what you came here to do because if you know you are who you are nothing else can impact that at all nothing like fear cannot impact that at all you have to be so like you have like right now in a time where there's so much fear and so much um there's just so much uncertainty happening.
01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:54.159
And so we have to like really build the muscle of building up certainty and hope and like bravery and courageousness as the baseline.
01:02:54.320 --> 01:03:25.519
Like that's the root I'm like all right we have so much shit about AI or whatever or not even just AI but just like what's happening in the world but we need to be feeding those places some softness some like love some like hope because that's the only thing that's gonna really create the change that we want and I know it's simple and like I don't know a lot of people will be like damn like I don't know that feels toxic positivity but I don't care we need more we need more positivity about it.
01:03:25.679 --> 01:04:35.360
We need to have a lot more um kindness to ourselves I second third fourth fifth that underscore I televised both that all caps caps lock that because I like you know I think even in the fear around like the current administration and the doom and gloom around it and I'm constantly reminded by like elders like we we survived Ronald Reagan okay we survived like like black codes you know um one of my like I call him I call them my like colleagues in my cartographic work of like Victor and Alma Green who created the Negro motorist green book yeah right like this these books that like um or these guides that really illustrated where black folk could eat at restaurants or go get their cars ficked while they're pursuing the land amidst the like you know psychosis of segregation and white supremacy.
01:04:35.519 --> 01:06:01.039
It's like ah it sucks like we're not saying that it doesn't suck but amidst it sucking we had um you know the Harlem Renaissance we had green books we had so many counterculture movements where people remained in the spirit and in the heart of creating something that will last of channeling something that will last of beautifying the world of pursuing the land of remembering our ego and our ancestors of considering our descendants and the world that we want to lead to them so even in the in in the heart of like AI it's like it just really does you're the technology yeah yo you know I've been seeing I think uh I saw online somewhere is like is this the worst administration for marginalized people or is it the worst administration for white people right like who um it's not I mean like it sucked we're not embracing that it sucked but the context of suck has always existed yes so we're within this country yeah within Western imperialism it has always existed um and we have always existed in spite of it's existence Right.
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:01.679
Exactly.
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:07.920
We have always, what Christina Sharp says, we have always navigated the weather, right?
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:09.679
Of white supremacy.
01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:11.519
This like humidity in the air.
01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:12.960
This, like, you know.
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:15.440
And I think it's the same thing with like AI.
01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:26.239
I mean, you know, it has a little pop culture moment, kind of like um, kind of like when everyone was like traveling to like Tulum for like vacation.
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:30.079
Like, no, you don't like it, you don't like hear anything about like Tulum anymore.
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:32.000
I know, it's so wild.
01:06:32.239 --> 01:06:33.440
Or like NFTs.
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:35.760
I'm like, are people still making NFTs?
01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:39.679
Oh my the NFT boom was wild.
01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:42.960
It has a moment and then it kind of levels out.
01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:53.039
But like what it what you're underscoring is like, okay, and in the meantime, what is the work that you're doing in order to bring forth your genius?
01:06:53.360 --> 01:07:04.639
You are living, you were called here, you did decide to come here, you were born, no matter what your belief system is, there's something in you that said, Hey, I'm gonna come to Earth and be creative.
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:07.119
Yes, and that's what I'm like.
01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:18.559
I'm like, if I am here, because I don't know not one person who has experienced loss in their life in the last couple of years, in the last year alone.
01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:24.320
Like so many of my loved ones have experienced being like so much like death happening.
01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:35.039
And so to me, I'm like, okay, souls are leaving and they're transitioning and they're like elevating, their spirits are elevating, which is my hope.
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:45.280
And also, if I'm here and I'm witnessing that elevation, how can I elevate this time and purpose and being here?
01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:49.920
I can't just be here and just be like moping around being like, what the fuck is happening?
01:07:50.079 --> 01:07:53.519
And yes, there's some days where I need to be like, what the fuck is happening?
01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:58.480
There's some deep days where I'm like, I don't even want to fucking happen.
01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:04.880
But there are some days I had to literally pull myself out of and be like, you are here, pay attention.
01:08:05.119 --> 01:08:08.159
How can you what can you do for humanity right now?
01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:09.920
What can you do for Earth right now?
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:16.319
How can you be more of an active participant in your life, in the lives of the people in your life?
01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:19.920
And so yeah, that's my medicine right now.
01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:48.159
I really, I really resonate, and I think there is something really powerful about like no matter what your spiritual system is, your belief system is, strengthening that in uncertain times because there is nothing worse than being at the mercy of like Western imperialistic thought of like productivity and fear and policy.
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:58.239
Um, that's all just something that's extractive and contorted and inorganic that was placed on top of a land anyway.
01:08:58.800 --> 01:08:59.119
Right?
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:21.520
So no matter what, where you, you know, whether it's the church or a tree or the soil, wherever you gain your spiritual strength, it's also the same current that you strengthen your commitments and your devotion to your creative practice, and they are quite um married and um interchangeable.
01:09:22.159 --> 01:09:26.800
Um, so just want to take a second and invite you guys who are here live.
01:09:27.039 --> 01:09:33.520
If you have any questions for Lovis, while we have them, this fucking genius powerhouse.
01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:37.840
Um, you can raise your hand, you can type in the chat.
01:09:38.720 --> 01:09:40.640
And just giving you guys a few minutes.
01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:41.840
Do, do, do, do, do.
01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:43.520
Thank you so much for coming.
01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:44.399
This has been great.
01:09:44.479 --> 01:09:48.640
I have like so many more follow-up questions that I'm like, have to stay on time.
01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:49.680
Have to stay on.
01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:54.239
Lovis, thank you so much for opening season three with us.
01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:59.520
This was exactly the kind of practical, honest conversation our community needs.
01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:02.880
Um, let us know like where we can find you.
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:13.439
Yeah, you can find me at LovisWise I-L-L-U, Ilu on um Instagram or at loveiswise.com.
01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:16.399
Yeah, drop me a little line or something.
01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:19.359
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:21.039
This has been so special.
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:22.479
I appreciate y'all.
01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:25.039
Thank you so much for tuning in, everybody.
01:10:25.199 --> 01:10:26.960
Y'all are so sweet.
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:31.600
Thank you guys so much, and we will see you guys soon.
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:32.560
All right.
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Bye.
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Thank you for listening to Arts to Word Conversations.
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This season is all about sustainable creative practice, and every conversation is part of a bigger story about how we support each other as creators.
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Share what resonates, what challenges you, what you want to hear more about.
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Arts to Word Conversations and the production of the Alliance for Media, Arts and Culture.
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Keep creating, we're caring for you.