CI to Eye | Bridging the Marketing-Development Divide

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Hi everyone. Dan here.
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It's almost the end of the fiscal
year and many of us are wrapping up
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performance seasons, launching
big fundraising pushes,
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and keeping a close eye on
whether we'll hit our goals.
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And at the center of all that?
Marketing and development.
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These teams are working toward the same
big picture goals, bringing in revenue,
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deepening relationships, and moving
organizational missions forward.
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But too often they end up operating
in silos: on separate timelines,
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using different tools,
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and talking to the same audiences
in totally different ways.
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And when that happens, no one's
work is as effective as it could be.
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So we wondered,
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what happens when you intentionally
start breaking down these silos?
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When teams don't just share
goals, but also share plans,
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data and ownership of the full
audience journey? In today's episode,
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I'll sit down with Cincinnati Shakespeare
Company's Director of Marketing,
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Jeanna Vella, and Director of Development,
Sara Clark. During the pandemic,
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Jeanna and Sara's department started
working more closely out of necessity,
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but what began as a response to crisis
turned into a lasting shift in how they
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collaborate.
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That collaboration continues to
fuel results across ticket sales and
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fundraising, and it's something they
actively nurture day in, day out.
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Together,
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we'll talk about why silos between
marketing and development are so common,
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the unique strengths each
department brings to the table,
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and how to tackle common challenges
like miscommunication and competing
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priorities.
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If you've ever felt like marketing and
development are running parallel races
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instead of just moving forward together,
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then this episode offers a ton of
inspiration for what's possible.
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Let's dive in, shall we?
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Jeanna and Sara, welcome to CI to Eye.
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Thanks for having us.
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Yeah, thank you so much.
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So we're going to talk about
the relationship between
development and marketing,
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but before we get started, you're
both kind of Shakespeare nerds.
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What's your most controversial
Shakespeare opinion?
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Well, I think mine is that I'm
actually not a Shakespeare nerd.
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That's the controversial add.
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I was a music person and now I've worked
at Shakespeare companies for 17 years,
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so I think it has gotten in there
a little bit. So I don't know.
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That might be my controversy is that I
think you don't have to be a Shakespeare
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nerd to market Shakespeare
effectively and very well.
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I love it.
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Oh, I don't know if I have a
controversial Shakespeare opinion. I mean,
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I've been doing this almost
20 years now with the company,
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and so I think I am in general less
precious about it than I was when I
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kind of first came out, I was like, no,
it must be this and text must be that.
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And you can never change a single thing,
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even though this word has fallen into
complete obsolescence and means a very
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different thing now. And so yeah,
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I think I just am more relaxed
about it than I used to be.
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Amazing. Love it. Mine is
that it's fine to say Macbeth.
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Ah, that is a hot take.
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I'm not that crazy.
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But I don't out of respect for
people who do care about that.
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Let's start by setting the stage.
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What did the pandemic look like
for Cincinnati Shakespeare Company?
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How did it impact your
operations and revenue?
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Sure. So I'm sure everybody listening
has their version of this story,
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but this is ours. So here
in the state of Ohio,
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the governor put forward the ban on
mass gatherings over a hundred on March
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12th, 2020.
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And effectively that shuttered
our doors where we were.
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We had just announced about a
week prior, a brand new season,
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and sold what Jeanna? $200,000
in advanced subscriptions to it?
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Something like that? We had
ordered all of the posters,
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they had all of the dates on them.
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We pre-printed all the materials. That
was the first time I'd ever done that.
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Every show was cast. We were ahead of
the game. We were so excited, so ready.
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We were two weeks into a five-week run
of Kate Hamill's adaptation of Jane
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Austen's Pride and Prejudice,
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which at the time was set to break
all of our single ticket records.
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Every data point that we had said that
this was going to be the bestselling show
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in the company's history.
And we were four days into rehearsing
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a much anticipated production
of Hamlet when it all came down.
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And in the end we ended
up staying closed for
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579 days.
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The theater was dark and we had to
make some hard decisions really,
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really fast. So on March 12th,
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we probably had 60 or 70
odd people on the payroll.
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That was two dozen full-time staff, plus
part-timers, plus actors, designers,
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front of house, bartenders, everybody
that it takes to make a theater run.
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All of those contractors were let
go on day one and two weeks later,
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10 full-time staff followed.
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So we went from about 70
people to 12 and just kind of
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buckled down and tried to make
it through the next 600 days.
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Well, and I think the
thing to add too is Sara,
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you had taken on the role of
Director of Development...
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...About 12 weeks before that.
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Yeah.
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Right before that. That's right.
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It wasn't like we were all preparing
for 600 days of closure, either.
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It was like, what will the next week,
what will the next two weeks [be]?
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And that's what made a lot of the
decisions so difficult as well.
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Well, exactly. We kept doing
season announcements and yeah,
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there was no way to know,
but had they said, okay,
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you're going to be closed for two years,
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we would've done things totally
differently. Yeah, it was the unknown.
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That was one of the
hardest parts about it.
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Yeah,
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we had also just passed a board approved
budget and business plan a couple of
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months prior,
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and so we were moving forward with that
and the announcement of the new season
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and we ended up having to redo that
twice over in four different versions.
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We essentially took that business
plan and made a plan A, B, C,
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and D for the entire business based
on when we could reopen the theater,
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which was the biggest unknown.
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And were there any key turning
points as you began to reopen?
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Was there a break point of now
we're open, or was it gradual?
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It was gradual in the sense that we
knew we needed to start rehiring people,
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getting things back in.
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Basically we turned the cog off and
we needed to start the gears again.
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So that was a little bit gradual. But
besides all of the logistical things,
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if you remember, we had to
check vaccination records
and status and masking.
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Besides all of those operational
nightmares and challenges,
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we just had to figure out
who are we welcoming back?
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Because I think we can all
look at ourselves and say,
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there's probably things that are different
about us now post-pandemic just as
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people,
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and the types of things that we do for
fun or the types of things that we do
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outside of our homes.
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So the audience was just going to be
very different and look very different.
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And so that was the big thing
to say, who are we welcoming?
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What do they need now? And that was
a whole different group of people,
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even if it was the same bodies coming in,
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the things that they needed had
changed. So relearning that,
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listening to that new audience.
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And I would say some of that work
definitely still continues to this day,
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as we're learning the habits and
things that people expect about their
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experience out is different now.
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The numbers from your last three
seasons are really impressive,
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especially compared to what many
other organizations have experienced.
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What do you think made
that rebound possible?
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So I think we had as good a footing
going into a great global crisis as we
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probably could have had.
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We're not a particularly old organization
and we're not a particularly large
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one. So just for context,
we're in our 31st season.
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There's a lot of organizations in
the city who are 50 or upwards of
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hundred-year-old arts organizations,
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and we're just kind of under a 4
million budget here in Cincinnati, Ohio.
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So kind of middle of the line.
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We didn't have the big multi
tens of million dollars endowment
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invested that a lot of older and more
storied organizations could lean on.
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That's the whole point of that is
to be able to lean on it in crisis.
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But what we had done is in the lead up
to being able to execute the capital
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campaign and the building
of our new building,
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which happened about
three years prior to 2020,
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is we had done a lot of advanced work
to make sure that our financial controls
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were really, really strong.
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That sort of the understanding
and ownership of the business,
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not just at the top
and at the board level,
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but throughout the leadership
and the staff was really strong.
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And we'd strategically built up some
cash reserves and some facility funds.
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So we were in a good enough position.
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And that combined with making
hard decisions really fast,
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having to let go of a lot of people,
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essentially kind of insulated us up until
we were able to really maximize those
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relief opportunities. That started to
come once we were three, six months,
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a year into this.
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And then we really capitalized on the
time that we had without doing shows.
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We were in these kind of zoom rooms and
thought, well, if we had all this time,
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what is something that we
could work on together?
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And that was really where kind of what
we call our staff innovation took place
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when we really started to rebuild the
development side of our ticketing database
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and really integrate those teams because
our team went down to one in marketing,
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two in development. So the three of
us joined forces and thought, well,
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let's just lean into this. What
do you need? What do I need?
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What can we do together? How
can we capitalize on this time?
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And we set off on taking time -- in
this case, the big one was our database.
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Really getting development up to snuff
with that with our marketing was a huge
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investment of time and
we had the time to do it.
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So we tried to capitalize on that.
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Yeah, I think that's one
of the most striking,
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exciting parts of your story
is the way that marketing and
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development are working together,
and that's not always the norm.
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Was there just an aha moment of, hang on,
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we should all be working together
a lot closer going forward,
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not just for this database?
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Well, yeah.
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I think we realized looking specifically
when you're stripping it all away and
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you don't have shows,
it's the same people.
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Trying to think about folks as patrons
or donors, it just didn't make any sense.
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If you think about it,
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we had ticket buyers that had now
become donors because they said,
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please take our tickets back
or we're not going to come.
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And I don't necessarily think
patrons were thinking, oh wait,
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I'm taking my ticket buyer hat
off and putting on my donor.
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That's not how people feel
about their experience.
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So why were we operating as if those
were very separate groups of people or
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those groups had different needs? They
really didn't. They were really combined.
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It's just not as linear as people
want to think it is. Sometimes it is.
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Sometimes someone will actually
go from first time attendee,
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maybe they didn't even buy a ticket,
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maybe their friend brought them and then
they buy a single ticket and then they
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subscribe and then they make a small
donation and then they make a major
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donation and then they
write us into their will.
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That's kind of the standard
progression that we learn.
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And I'm sure there are people that are
like that, but in our joint experience,
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most people come in somewhere
else or they surprise you,
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they'll start as a hundred dollars
donor and then all of a sudden they're a
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hundred thousand dollars donor
because they had a moment,
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they wanted to make an investment,
it was right time, right place.
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Or they might have come in as a donor
because they believed in something we were
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doing outside of the building,
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like our education programs or
free Shakespeare in the park,
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and they've never even seen a show here.
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And so the win on them is to
get them to come to a show,
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to make them a first-time buyer.
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So I think that myth and
that sort of passing through,
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because if you're structuring
your plan that way,
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that means that one department's not
even looking at people until a certain
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point. Development shouldn't
come in and say, okay,
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I just want to see people that
have been here a bunch of times,
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only subscribers. I
mean, that's one group,
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but you're missing out on everyone
and it's a little intimidating,
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but it could be anyone in
the world. Anybody could
enter that path at any point.
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But keeping in mind that it's not linear,
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I think it's sort of freeing because
there's all kinds of different strategies
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that you can do and you don't
have to focus on the first one.
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You can focus on all of
them in different ways.
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And now I think the
important caveat there is,
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that doesn't mean that all communications
go to all people because all people
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can enter at any time, right? No,
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it's the opposite because
I think we acknowledge that
people can enter into that
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continuum at any point.
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Jeanna and I are jointly really
strategic about who we're talking to,
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about what, when.
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So we absolutely segment and target
communications within the base.
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We just don't kind of fall in a silo
of you're on this side of this linear
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spectrum and I'm on this side of it.
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What is your team really good at and
how does those strengths compliment the
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other team?
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Something that I think marketing
professionals are amazing at
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is really understanding
voice of the customer,
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understanding that while we
are a charitable organization,
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while we have a mission and
we do mission-driven work,
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we're also a business and we need to
not make a lot of assumptions about
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what our folks need and want.
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We need to actually ask them and
put the work into listening there.
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I think marketing teams are
really great at infrastructure,
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working within systems and
creating operating systems and
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standard procedures that just help us
only have to make a hard decision once and
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then we sort of know how things
can operate. Jeanna in particular,
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and marketing folks I hope in
general, are also data geeks.
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They understand the power of
making a data informed decision
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and the strength of sharing that with
more than just their department and how
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that can really empower all
of us. And then just branding,
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creating a cohesive identity so
that no matter what sort of external
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communication you're doing, everybody
is speaking with the same voice.
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And what I've learned from development
professionals and Sara in particular is
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the value of small moves.
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So often I'll hear these stories about
someone that they've stewarded for
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years that hasn't donated for -- again,
in marketing, I'd be like, great,
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we need to move on. We
have a show that's closing.
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So that value of those small moves, the
long game, and really thinking, well,
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how can I bring that same kind of
strategy to marketing that works in
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development. And storytelling! Marketing,
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we often get very short amounts
of characters to tell a story.
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Development sometimes gets a little bit
longer in those grants or those long
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conversations, essentially
building a story with a donor.
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How is development taking the time to
build that story and really bring people
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into it to find their own
place inside that story?
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And development has a curiosity.
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They always want to learn
a little more about wait,
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what are they doing
down in the scene shop?
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Because that might be something that I
could find a sponsorship for or funder
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might be interested in that. Or
actually now that I'm down here,
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I see that you have a need, maybe
I could find some money for that.
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So slowing down sometimes in marketing,
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putting that development mindset on
could really help us see ways that we
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weren't thinking about before,
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just looking at something
through a different lens.
So I think by finding those,
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we kind of call 'em our
superpowers in each other,
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only benefited both of
us to see those things.
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And it feels like there's a lot
of overlap in terms of listening.
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It was just like how you listen
data versus story and how
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they can really ate each other there.
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00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,360
So let's talk about what collaboration
actually looks like in practice at Cincy
280
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Shakes. How do you stay in sync?
Are there any specific tools,
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00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:14,120
routines, communication practices that
have helped your team stay aligned?
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00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,710
Definitely the Spektrix was the big
piece because that was one of our biggest
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00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:21,680
challenges, was just
data integration issues.
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00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:27,050
So getting us together using the
system the same way was huge for us.
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00:15:27,140 --> 00:15:30,710
So we have active Spektrix
users from both of our teams,
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00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:34,310
but you can set up reports that just
basically get emailed out to the whole
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00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:36,470
team. So we have people that
don't even touch the system,
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00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,070
but in the morning they might get a
report that we've talked about and decided
289
00:15:40,070 --> 00:15:43,400
that helps them see where we are in
sales or where we are on donations.
290
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,480
We've got a great one that says major
donors that are attending this weekend.
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The box office should know that.
The production team should know.
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00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,010
Everyone should know those things.
293
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:55,520
And that was a marketing tool
that we're using for development,
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and that goal that they're trying to reach
by making sure we're covering all the
295
00:15:58,190 --> 00:15:59,420
donors at all the levels.
296
00:15:59,930 --> 00:16:02,750
Yeah, I mean even just
taking that basic idea,
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00:16:03,050 --> 00:16:05,810
I create a slide deck,
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a 15 slide deck for the box office staff
every year that it's like these are the
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00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:13,160
names and the faces of the 15 people
that if they walk through that door,
300
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you need to know who they are.
301
00:16:15,050 --> 00:16:18,380
That just comes from that
kind of general ethos of,
302
00:16:18,590 --> 00:16:22,160
we all share a responsibility
for this. We're all fundraisers,
303
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we're all marketers, we're all performers,
304
00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:28,610
we're all responsible for the people's
experience that come into our space.
305
00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:31,760
And then look, I know nobody wants
another meeting on their schedule,
306
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,180
but there are two that we have put
in place that we think are actually
307
00:16:35,180 --> 00:16:38,960
incredibly valuable and productive to
being able to get these two departments
308
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,100
synced up. One of them is, we start
the week like 11:00 AM on Monday,
309
00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:47,030
and Jeanna and I both meet with our
producing artistic director who is the
310
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:51,140
executive director of the organization.
And I think it's incredibly valuable.
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I mean between Jeanna and
I, we essentially manage all
of the company's revenue.
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00:16:54,950 --> 00:16:58,850
So Jeanna manages all of the earn side,
I manage all of the contributed side,
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00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,350
and as opposed to us having one-on-ones
with our artistic director and then
314
00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:07,790
having to play telephone and translate
and nobody really knows what everybody
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00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:09,980
else is doing, we just do it together.
316
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,540
And it's a way of both allowing
us to be aware of and just
317
00:17:14,810 --> 00:17:18,800
develop some sort of basic empathy and
understanding for what this other part of
318
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,930
the business is going through
at a particular moment,
319
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,130
but also to be able to offer a really
valuable outside perspective and go, well,
320
00:17:25,430 --> 00:17:27,890
I understand that maybe this
is the best practice over here,
321
00:17:27,890 --> 00:17:29,330
but have you thought about this?
322
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,640
This is maybe how I would
approach that particular thing.
323
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,940
And I think we have found that to be
really, really practical and valuable.
324
00:17:35,150 --> 00:17:37,940
And then the other thing we've
set up is a Dev Comms meeting.
325
00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:41,390
So we kind of made up this department
called Development Communication,
326
00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:42,223
Dev Comms,
327
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,450
and it's all the members
of the development team
and all the members of the
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00:17:44,450 --> 00:17:48,770
marketing team. Weekly meeting,
we close the door, it's just us.
329
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,300
We get to really look at
everything we're doing,
330
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:54,720
look through every line and
product that we have coming up,
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00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,910
and don't tell any of my other meetings,
332
00:17:57,090 --> 00:18:01,800
but this is my favorite meeting because
I think we get the most accomplished.
333
00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:06,690
That's usually an hour of our week that
really does set us up for the next week.
334
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:09,750
I am definitely one of those people
that's like, not another meeting,
335
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please can't this be an email.
336
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:15,210
But those are two that have
been very successful for us.
337
00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:19,350
What were some of the biggest
challenges you faced in this endeavor?
338
00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:24,660
So I think a lot of challenges that
marketing and development teams face,
339
00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:29,070
it's really just sort of a
misalignment of priorities and
340
00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:33,210
timelines and it gives you the sense
that your goals are in conflict with each
341
00:18:33,210 --> 00:18:35,520
other, even though
that's not actually true.
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00:18:35,970 --> 00:18:39,810
So we alluded a little bit earlier to
this idea of marketing is really good at
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00:18:40,530 --> 00:18:44,460
the immediate game, the thing in
front of them, and that makes sense.
344
00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:47,580
Their timelines are shorter
and tighter than ours.
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00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:51,540
The show is going to open and it's going
to close and you can't market it once
346
00:18:51,540 --> 00:18:55,050
it's already closed. So we have
to have an understanding of that,
347
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:56,070
whereas as Jeanna said,
348
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development can be a much longer process
and it's a series of moves over weeks
349
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or months or years to get to the ultimate
goal that you're trying to achieve.
350
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,240
And there's a natural tension there. And
that's just something that I think when
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00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,710
you acknowledge it and you have empathy
and understanding for how those two
352
00:19:13,710 --> 00:19:17,430
things need to sync up together, you
can start to be practical about it.
353
00:19:17,610 --> 00:19:21,360
So that might look like something as
simple as making sure that if your two
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departments are doing basically all of
the external communications with your
355
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,730
people, you want to make
sure that they're synced up,
356
00:19:26,730 --> 00:19:28,950
that you're not cannibalizing each other,
357
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:32,190
that you're not overloading your people
or going too much time without talking
358
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to a certain group. It really is just
having the conversation and going,
359
00:19:36,330 --> 00:19:39,600
we have the same big goal, but we
currently have different short-term ones,
360
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so how do these two things link together?
361
00:19:42,180 --> 00:19:46,200
And then what is the tactics and the
steps that get us to the ultimate
362
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,033
achievement?
363
00:19:47,340 --> 00:19:50,280
And once you have gone
through one season at least,
364
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,120
you start to realize where are my
busiest times? Where's my tension points?
365
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,160
So for marketers or for me in particular,
366
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,640
the season announcement's always our
busiest time because it's setting up a lot
367
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,720
of things for that coming season. So
it's good for development to know that,
368
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:06,900
because it wouldn't be a great
time to come to us with a new idea.
369
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,420
They might get stressed,
370
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,740
that kind of reaction from the team,
and they might look and go, well see,
371
00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:17,070
I tried to work with marketing
but they shut me down. It's like,
372
00:20:17,460 --> 00:20:19,920
were we thinking about the timelines
and things they were doing?
373
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Because people aren't always
so good at communicating that.
374
00:20:22,860 --> 00:20:26,760
They just feel overwhelmed and it's just
a feeling that you think is going to
375
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,460
last forever. What I always
like to say to my team is,
376
00:20:29,610 --> 00:20:34,260
keep hard days in perspective. It's not
always this level of pressure all the
377
00:20:34,260 --> 00:20:35,070
time,
378
00:20:35,070 --> 00:20:39,270
but being able to know when each other's
hard days are just makes collaboration
379
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:42,930
more effective. And then you can
swing in and say, Hey, I have time.
380
00:20:42,930 --> 00:20:45,120
This is a lighter time for me.
What can I do to help you out?
381
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:46,740
We've been doing that just now.
382
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:49,660
We're sort of both involved in
a show we've got on the stage.
383
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:51,940
Sara's directing it, I'm
playing in the orchestra,
384
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,190
and we have a big fundraiser
we have coming up,
385
00:20:54,190 --> 00:20:56,110
so we were just sort of
swinging between each other.
386
00:20:56,530 --> 00:20:58,720
What can I do to cover you here?
How could we work this out?
387
00:20:59,350 --> 00:21:02,050
Yeah, it feels very deep.
It feels like a culture.
388
00:21:02,350 --> 00:21:04,930
It's a change in mindset
towards collaboration.
389
00:21:05,050 --> 00:21:08,860
How did you build that buy-in with
leadership? With the box office? Like,
390
00:21:09,010 --> 00:21:10,480
all levels of the organization?
391
00:21:11,290 --> 00:21:12,880
I think a lot of it started with --
392
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,200
in the years just prior to the
launch of our capital campaign,
393
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,520
we really had some cleaning house to
do in terms of our own operations.
394
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,350
So I mean there was a time 10, 15 years
ago when I first got into development,
395
00:21:26,350 --> 00:21:28,060
I did it by writing grants.
396
00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:31,690
I was a grant writer first and I used
to have to meet monthly with the board
397
00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:35,950
treasurer to look at when this $5,000
was expected to come in because it
398
00:21:35,950 --> 00:21:39,040
impacted cashflow. That's not us anymore.
399
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,930
And how we got from that to where
we are now is really spreading
400
00:21:44,020 --> 00:21:47,950
ownership and accountability
of the business
401
00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:49,810
throughout the leadership.
402
00:21:49,810 --> 00:21:52,630
So when we get a budget or
a business plan rolled out,
403
00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:55,750
it's not the first time
we've seen it. We built it.
404
00:21:56,170 --> 00:22:00,820
The leadership's responsibility is to
kind of set strategy and vision and
405
00:22:01,060 --> 00:22:05,650
the overall slate and then it goes
out to Jeanna and to me and to our
406
00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:08,650
production manager and to the head of our
education department and anybody who's
407
00:22:08,650 --> 00:22:10,120
kind of owning that portion,
408
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:13,210
be it revenue or expense or
a combination of the two,
409
00:22:13,570 --> 00:22:18,070
and the subject matter expertise then
builds that from the ground up. We say,
410
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:20,770
this is what we think we can raise,
this is what we think we can sell,
411
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:24,820
this is what we think we can spend.
And then it's a conversation,
412
00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:25,450
it's a practice.
413
00:22:25,450 --> 00:22:30,400
So that sense of transparency
and accountability is
built into the ethos of the
414
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:30,940
company.
415
00:22:30,940 --> 00:22:34,090
And then I think we've just managed to
take it sort of a step further with our
416
00:22:34,210 --> 00:22:35,110
specific teams.
417
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:39,460
And I think really what makes that work
is the transparency piece and that does
418
00:22:39,460 --> 00:22:43,630
start top down. So we're very open about
if we're having a financial challenge.
419
00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:46,510
I mean, especially in the pandemic,
it was a lot of, here's the numbers,
420
00:22:46,510 --> 00:22:48,370
here's where we are, we
want everyone to see.
421
00:22:48,910 --> 00:22:53,290
There is no benefit to hiding that
or obscuring that from the team.
422
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:54,760
And it's funny,
423
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,600
we have this board in the kitchen where
we have our sales goal and then where we
424
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,100
are to meet that goal and the amount of
people that are blown away that we would
425
00:23:03,460 --> 00:23:08,230
publicly put that information out there.
It is surprising to me like, well,
426
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:11,050
I want everyone to see where we're
at and where we're struggling.
427
00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:12,430
Sometimes it's not good news.
428
00:23:12,670 --> 00:23:16,510
Sometimes it is a show that's struggling
and we have to manage that to say,
429
00:23:16,510 --> 00:23:18,790
well, here's the things that we're
doing and here's what's happening.
430
00:23:19,090 --> 00:23:20,620
But by being transparent about it,
431
00:23:20,620 --> 00:23:24,730
everyone's on the same page and then
we can rely on our team and they can be
432
00:23:24,730 --> 00:23:26,830
accountable to help build those goals.
433
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:30,160
Nothing is sort of obscured from
everyone. Everyone knows what's going on.
434
00:23:30,550 --> 00:23:33,610
Yeah, it sounds very refreshing
when you made that move.
435
00:23:33,610 --> 00:23:36,700
It must have felt almost like a
relief to have all that transparency.
436
00:23:36,970 --> 00:23:39,400
Oh yeah. I'll never forget, at one point,
437
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,920
I got a budget rollout and
I looked at it and I went,
438
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,680
I can't apply for this grant that you
say is going to bring in $20,000 this
439
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,450
year. They're on an
every-other-year cycle.
440
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:49,970
And it's just one small
example of what happens.
441
00:23:49,970 --> 00:23:52,430
And it doesn't mean that
leadership is bad or uninformed,
442
00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:56,330
it's they're not the subject matter
expert in your part of the business.
443
00:23:56,330 --> 00:24:00,590
You are. So part of your job is
managing up, down, and sideways,
444
00:24:00,590 --> 00:24:02,360
and then all of us put
this thing together.
445
00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:06,920
I hear from other marketers sometimes
that they sort of get the goals and they
446
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,100
bring so much anxiety, and I can
see that. We would never do that.
447
00:24:10,550 --> 00:24:11,810
No magical thinking.
448
00:24:11,810 --> 00:24:14,630
I understand that you needed to
make this much to make your budget,
449
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:15,980
to make your expenses work,
450
00:24:15,980 --> 00:24:20,810
but we can't get there and it does
no one any good to hope that we
451
00:24:20,810 --> 00:24:25,160
could. So let's look back and build
this budget together. Realistically,
452
00:24:25,370 --> 00:24:28,250
where are some places that we can push
and where are some places that we can
453
00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:31,910
pull back on expenses? Not to
say we don't have stretch goals,
454
00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:36,470
we're always trying to reach
for more, but by using the data,
455
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:40,610
we can make really good guesses on where
we think we're going to be and we need
456
00:24:40,610 --> 00:24:43,670
to do that, basically look at the
expenses and if it doesn't match up,
457
00:24:43,670 --> 00:24:45,380
then we go back to figuring that out.
458
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,350
You went through a
website redesign, right?
459
00:24:48,740 --> 00:24:50,660
Yes. Yeah, just recently with Hotfoot.
460
00:24:51,050 --> 00:24:51,380
Great.
461
00:24:51,380 --> 00:24:55,220
How was that process in terms of your two
departments and what you need from the
462
00:24:55,220 --> 00:24:56,053
website?
463
00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:59,450
We do a lot of work with website redesigns
and we're constantly trying to get
464
00:24:59,450 --> 00:25:00,800
people to talk.
465
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,820
Tell people what you need from the website
and also what the website needs to do
466
00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:08,030
from a patron slash donor
point of view as well,
467
00:25:08,090 --> 00:25:11,810
rather than our department's point
of view. How was that process?
468
00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:15,140
Well, it definitely started with,
we know we needed a new website,
469
00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:18,230
which has sort of become a thing that
you need to be looking at every three
470
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:23,060
years if not more. And as I've been
with the company for about 16 seasons,
471
00:25:23,330 --> 00:25:27,620
this was my fourth website redesign and
every time we do a new one, I loved it.
472
00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:29,480
And then towards the end, I
hated it every single time,
473
00:25:30,140 --> 00:25:34,340
so we need to change this. So I've
been talking about needing a new one,
474
00:25:34,340 --> 00:25:35,540
and Sara actually --
475
00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:39,650
her team was able to find a funder to
support that new work because again,
476
00:25:39,650 --> 00:25:41,600
that's a sort of new capital expense.
477
00:25:42,110 --> 00:25:45,050
The cost to do websites
now has grown so much.
478
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,790
And again, development's a long game.
It was a funder who was actually,
479
00:25:49,790 --> 00:25:52,430
I think the last capital
gift in the capital campaign,
480
00:25:52,430 --> 00:25:56,600
but they only do gifts every three years.
And they gave me a call and said, Hey,
481
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,840
it's been three years since your last
one, what do you got? And I said, well,
482
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,930
I have a website among some other things.
483
00:26:02,930 --> 00:26:04,430
But that was definitely a big part of it.
484
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,320
And so I led the project,
but in collaboration with
development to say, okay,
485
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,400
what tools,
486
00:26:10,910 --> 00:26:15,680
I know exactly how I think that the
ticket path should go for our patrons,
487
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,360
so I'm going to bring
some of that knowledge,
488
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:21,770
that frictionless experience and make
my suggestions to development about how
489
00:26:21,770 --> 00:26:24,050
could we make your path even better,
490
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,830
and making sure those two things were
integrated so they were done at the same
491
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:31,070
time. When we were looking
back at basically --
492
00:26:31,070 --> 00:26:34,790
we sort of built out that site map, that
was a great opportunity to go, okay,
493
00:26:34,790 --> 00:26:35,330
wait a second.
494
00:26:35,330 --> 00:26:39,470
We had this sort of fun structure with
what if we break that down and simplify
495
00:26:39,470 --> 00:26:40,303
this, whatever.
496
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,580
So we sort of use the same sort of
questions and debates that we were having
497
00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:48,390
with ourselves in marketing in development
to say, how could we improve this?
498
00:26:48,390 --> 00:26:52,200
And I think it led to even more clarity
on how we could think about our annual
499
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,020
events, individual, monthly,
however we were thinking about it,
500
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:58,950
that can become reflected on the website
and then I could work with our web
501
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:02,790
developers to make things more clickable
and fun and kind of gamification of
502
00:27:02,790 --> 00:27:03,510
some things.
503
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:06,030
Yeah, I think that process
too was a great example.
504
00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:07,920
It really highlights what we
were talking about before,
505
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,730
which is not everybody chooses to interact
with the organization for the first
506
00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:14,400
time in the same way. So if you're
designing a website and you're going,
507
00:27:14,670 --> 00:27:17,550
everybody's first interaction is
they're going to buy a single ticket,
508
00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:19,950
then that's the lens you're
going to design a website on.
509
00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:22,950
Whereas if you acknowledge that
there are probably a few ways,
510
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:26,700
maybe somebody came to a gala as a guest
and now they want to go buy a ticket or
511
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:30,570
maybe somebody saw that we take these
donor trips and now they want to see what
512
00:27:30,570 --> 00:27:34,590
we do on our main stage. So it's
making those accessible and honestly,
513
00:27:34,590 --> 00:27:37,860
it was fun. I mean I remember pulling
Jeanna into my office and I had --
514
00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:39,090
it was like A Beautiful Mind.
515
00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:43,380
I had post-it notes and the path of here
are the pages and here's how they lead
516
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:44,580
and can this link to that?
517
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:48,240
And it was really lovely being able to
think about that and to have a thought
518
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,180
partner in it to create what we created.
519
00:27:51,690 --> 00:27:54,870
I could look back and go, okay,
what you're saying is this, right?
520
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:57,150
The two of us can have that shorthand,
521
00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:01,500
having worked together for a long time
or kind of pushing back and questioning,
522
00:28:01,740 --> 00:28:04,350
well, what if it was this or
what if we tried it this way?
523
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,310
I think that kind of comes to my ethos
that I shared at Boot Camp too, which is:
524
00:28:08,790 --> 00:28:12,600
stop being so precious about your
kingdoms and your own things that you're
525
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,730
working on and really let someone else in.
526
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,430
Because when they're looking at
something, when you're breaking it down --
527
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,290
because you think about
websites, it's like, well,
528
00:28:19,290 --> 00:28:22,770
we should probably have a corporate
foundation page and an individual giving
529
00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:25,320
page and it's like, well, wait
a minute, let's break that down.
530
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,610
Why would a foundation come to the
site? What would they be doing on there?
531
00:28:29,610 --> 00:28:29,940
Whatever.
532
00:28:29,940 --> 00:28:34,200
So it was just a chance to kind of
break things down and really stop being
533
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,770
precious about how we'd always done it
and think about different ways of doing
534
00:28:38,770 --> 00:28:39,010
it.
535
00:28:39,010 --> 00:28:40,680
And it makes for a more coherent website.
536
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,980
Sometimes I look at websites and it
feels like there are three different
537
00:28:43,980 --> 00:28:46,800
websites written in completely
different ways. It's just so --
538
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,760
Because they probably were.
539
00:28:47,770 --> 00:28:51,120
Because they probably were. Exactly.
So when you have this collaboration,
540
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,260
I think one of the things you said here
was you said, don't be so precious.
541
00:28:55,260 --> 00:29:00,240
I love that message as well
of collaboration because
it requires a dropping of
542
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,900
ego and it requires a little
bit of vulnerability as well.
543
00:29:04,110 --> 00:29:05,010
Oh yeah.
544
00:29:05,010 --> 00:29:07,200
I mean I think when you
establish that, right,
545
00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:12,150
it actually allows you to make braver
and riskier decisions because you're
546
00:29:12,150 --> 00:29:17,130
able to put a suggestion or an idea
into the room without going, oh god,
547
00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:20,100
Jeanna's going to hate this. You know
what? I'm just not going to say it.
548
00:29:20,670 --> 00:29:23,250
Or vice versa. It's like, I
don't think that's a good idea.
549
00:29:23,250 --> 00:29:26,160
I feel like I need to say
something and here's why.
550
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,080
And being able to create that
culture of we are all on the same
551
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,240
team, we're all talking
to the same people,
552
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,520
we're all trying to deliver
on the same mission.
553
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,170
And if those things are true and we have
sort of a base understanding of empathy
554
00:29:40,170 --> 00:29:42,790
and enjoyment of each other, then great.
555
00:29:42,790 --> 00:29:47,440
That's a place from which we can actually
push and disagree and have conflict
556
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,890
and it can still be okay and hopefully
result in a better product on the other
557
00:29:50,890 --> 00:29:51,723
side.
558
00:29:51,970 --> 00:29:54,250
Yeah, I think to have that creativity,
559
00:29:54,250 --> 00:29:58,810
you need a basis of psychological
safety in your workplace because
560
00:29:58,810 --> 00:30:01,450
creativity does not happen without,
561
00:30:01,510 --> 00:30:05,680
and ideas aren't shared without
a base level of I'm safe here,
562
00:30:06,910 --> 00:30:09,010
I can say a bad idea and it'd be okay.
563
00:30:09,490 --> 00:30:12,760
Yeah, absolutely. And I know that's
probably the number one barrier.
564
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,520
A lot of people maybe
listening right now say,
565
00:30:15,670 --> 00:30:18,250
I don't feel that with my
development department or my team.
566
00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:23,230
And what we would always suggest to
folks is just do something tomorrow.
567
00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:24,910
What's the one step you can make?
568
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,600
Can you send an email congratulating
them on something they did?
569
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,890
Can you go to that fundraiser that you're
not really involved in but just to see
570
00:30:32,890 --> 00:30:33,550
how it goes?
571
00:30:33,550 --> 00:30:38,260
Or can they come to your talk back that
you're doing after a show and just show
572
00:30:38,260 --> 00:30:42,550
up? Take a step forward?
Because I truly believe people,
573
00:30:42,550 --> 00:30:46,000
especially people in this
business, we all want to have fun.
574
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,200
We all have a sense of humor about it.
575
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,270
We all care very much
about what we're doing.
576
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,010
So how can you tap into that on each
other's teams and what's the first thing
577
00:30:53,010 --> 00:30:54,400
you can do to build that bridge?
578
00:30:55,270 --> 00:30:57,670
What are some other examples
of this in practice?
579
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,510
So one that comes to mind, just
thinking about our season announcement,
580
00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:06,850
we do an online auction as one of our
three major special events in the year,
581
00:31:06,850 --> 00:31:09,040
and this is something that I started,
582
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,890
it was the first year we were still
kind of all remote in the pandemic,
583
00:31:11,890 --> 00:31:14,650
so we've only been doing it I think
now we've completed four of them,
584
00:31:15,010 --> 00:31:17,950
and the first two were at
different times in the year.
585
00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:20,920
I was kind of trying to find the perfect
time in the calendar. It's like, oh,
586
00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:23,410
when is there not a whole lot going on?
587
00:31:23,710 --> 00:31:26,290
Or when can I maybe
capitalize on holiday giving?
588
00:31:26,290 --> 00:31:30,490
So we tried a few things and then last
year it was actually Jeanna's suggestion,
589
00:31:30,490 --> 00:31:34,720
recognizing what is unique and special
about the way we do an auction is we're
590
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,520
really good at building these kind of
unique packages that combine something
591
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,240
donated,
592
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,780
maybe a special experience from a
community partner or a neighborhood group,
593
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,350
and then pairing it to a show we're going
to do on our main stage that maybe is
594
00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:50,260
thematically linked.
And so it kind of comes with CSC tickets,
595
00:31:50,260 --> 00:31:51,220
it gets them in the door,
596
00:31:51,220 --> 00:31:55,090
it gets us more invested with that person
who's not thinking of themself as a
597
00:31:55,090 --> 00:31:57,370
donor yet, and then also kind
of works with the community.
598
00:31:57,790 --> 00:31:58,990
And Jeanna came forward and is like,
599
00:31:59,020 --> 00:32:01,510
why don't we actually do it
with the season announcement?
600
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,520
Because the problem with
doing it later is one,
601
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,120
you're missing out on a third or half
the shows you can be able to create
602
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,220
packages around. And two,
603
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,490
a whole bunch of people have already
bought tickets when we did that first big
604
00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:16,660
push. So it's not as compelling to go,
you get six of this and that, blah, blah,
605
00:32:16,660 --> 00:32:21,610
blah, blah. We tried it for the
first time last year, it went well,
606
00:32:22,060 --> 00:32:23,590
but I was like, oh, I'm not
quite sure if this is it,
607
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:24,730
but I want to give it one more.
608
00:32:24,730 --> 00:32:27,790
And then we took the learnings from
that and did it again this year,
609
00:32:28,330 --> 00:32:33,280
knowing more and the overall balance
of things and packages and numbers
610
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,190
and operations and it worked beautifully.
611
00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:39,350
It's really a nice solid
event. And then again,
612
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:41,240
going back to those operations
and those protocols,
613
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,230
this is something that now I can take
and pretty much run without too much
614
00:32:45,230 --> 00:32:49,220
stress on Jeanna's team who is in
their most intense time of year.
615
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,230
Yeah, I remember when I
suggested, I was like,
616
00:32:51,290 --> 00:32:55,640
I'm going to regret suggesting
this because this is not
the time to add a thing.
617
00:32:55,790 --> 00:32:57,380
But I really, because again,
618
00:32:57,380 --> 00:33:00,620
I see the benefit of this auction
happening during this busy time.
619
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,000
We're getting so much PR and people are
really looking at what we're doing with
620
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,180
the season, and I love now that
they have two call to actions.
621
00:33:08,180 --> 00:33:11,660
They can subscribe and or they
can participate in the auction.
622
00:33:12,530 --> 00:33:15,290
So leaning into that was like,
all right, I'm seeing this.
623
00:33:15,290 --> 00:33:20,150
I know had it gone the other way and
development had come and had maybe not
624
00:33:20,150 --> 00:33:23,210
bought any rapport with us yet and say
we want to do our auction with season
625
00:33:23,210 --> 00:33:26,450
announcement, marketing
would panic. Bad timing.
626
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:27,433
Forget about it.
627
00:33:27,770 --> 00:33:30,680
But by kind of coming to the
natural conclusion together,
628
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,930
it just made the most
sense to do it that way.
629
00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:35,900
And then we just strategized from
there, how can we work ahead?
630
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:40,850
How can we make sure as our small team,
we see it coming? It wasn't a surprise.
631
00:33:40,850 --> 00:33:45,440
We knew we could work up onto it and we
were able to execute it that way and I
632
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,290
think it's the right place for
that particular fundraising a bit.
633
00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:51,530
Yeah, I like that you went back to it
after a year as well and kind took those
634
00:33:51,530 --> 00:33:53,480
learnings. Sometimes good ideas like that,
635
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,620
especially with collaboration
where there's maybe a
little bit of friction just
636
00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:59,690
because of natural different silos,
637
00:33:59,810 --> 00:34:04,430
sometimes it requires giving it enough
go and doubling down on the idea a little
638
00:34:04,430 --> 00:34:05,090
bit.
639
00:34:05,090 --> 00:34:07,370
Well, and Sara was just
talking about that about,
640
00:34:07,820 --> 00:34:10,400
one thing she's learned
from me is just try it.
641
00:34:10,910 --> 00:34:11,743
Yeah.
642
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,820
Sara's so smart and so very
detailed on the work that she does,
643
00:34:16,820 --> 00:34:20,090
but sometimes I'm like, let's just try
it. If it's not great -- what is that,
644
00:34:20,090 --> 00:34:23,390
'good is the enemy of great'? It's
like, well, great is the enemy of good.
645
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,460
Yeah. You can't let the perfect
be the enemy of the good.
646
00:34:25,460 --> 00:34:28,220
Sometimes we've just got to put something
in place and then we have something to
647
00:34:28,220 --> 00:34:30,980
react to. One of the things I tell
my team is you can't edit nothing.
648
00:34:31,550 --> 00:34:34,520
So when I'm thinking about a
proposal or a letter or a grant,
649
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,360
just get something out there and then
you've got something you can tweak with.
650
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,050
And I have to kind of apply that mindset
to some of these bigger projects.
651
00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:47,360
And the other one too was, we have
an annual gala. A lot of people do.
652
00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:49,100
It's called The Revel,
653
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:52,730
and usually it's sort of
'Revel in Romance' or 'Revel
and Rollick' or something.
654
00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:54,920
It sort of is themed every year,
655
00:34:55,220 --> 00:34:58,640
and it actually started looking very
traditionally like a fundraising event.
656
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,930
It was not even in our building,
657
00:34:59,930 --> 00:35:04,670
it was in a fancy ballroom somewhere
and we were always trying to program it.
658
00:35:04,820 --> 00:35:08,720
We'd have to kind of come up with
performers or we got kids in there to do
659
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:12,410
stuff. Thinking about again,
any standard fundraising event.
660
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,340
And in the pandemic was the first
time that, again, that Dev Comms team,
661
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,940
we thought, okay, so we're
creating a show for this event.
662
00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:24,980
Do you know what we have a lot of?
Shows. We already have a lot of those.
663
00:35:25,460 --> 00:35:29,360
Why don't we stop making a new show
and use the shows that we have.
664
00:35:29,900 --> 00:35:32,660
So the first one we did was with our
park tour, because it could be outdoors.
665
00:35:32,660 --> 00:35:35,930
This is like 2021. Things
are sort of reopening.
666
00:35:35,930 --> 00:35:37,800
We did a picnic-style,
667
00:35:38,940 --> 00:35:40,980
our free Shakespeare in the
Park Midsummer performed,
668
00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:43,350
and people sat at little
tables and watched.
669
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,120
And then the next year we moved it indoors
to the theater along with the show.
670
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,270
If Sara, you want to talk about a little
bit how that event has transformed now?
671
00:35:51,570 --> 00:35:53,400
Yeah, absolutely. I mean,
what I love about it,
672
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,360
I'm not a big fan of event fundraising
in general because it's such a high cost
673
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,510
to raise a dollar and it can be so
burdensome, especially on small teams.
674
00:36:00,510 --> 00:36:04,290
It takes up a lot of time and capacity
for what is often sort of a one-off
675
00:36:04,290 --> 00:36:05,490
experience with a person,
676
00:36:05,490 --> 00:36:09,420
which is antithetical to how I think
about philanthropy and stewardship and all
677
00:36:09,420 --> 00:36:12,030
of those things. So if we
were going to design an event,
678
00:36:12,030 --> 00:36:14,430
I want it to be something that one,
679
00:36:14,910 --> 00:36:19,470
I can actually show off what we're doing
so I have a better chance of retaining
680
00:36:19,470 --> 00:36:23,880
and stewarding that first experience
into a more long-term investment.
681
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,230
And then I also want something that feels
like us that doesn't feel like every
682
00:36:28,230 --> 00:36:29,940
other person's fundraising event.
683
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:34,800
And knowing that I can lean on Jeanna
and recognize that we can use the same
684
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,130
company that created all of the
beautiful brand created for the shows,
685
00:36:38,430 --> 00:36:41,640
they're also going to create it for the
event and it can exist as its own thing
686
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,690
and also feel tied to it and it
feels like us and it's just a really,
687
00:36:45,690 --> 00:36:47,670
really nice -- I hate this
word, but I'm going to say it --
688
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:50,280
synergy.
Everybody's got the same goal, right?
689
00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:54,480
Yeah. I always think with these donors,
they have a million fancy meals.
690
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,470
They're not here for another fancy meal.
691
00:36:58,470 --> 00:37:00,060
They're here because
they like Shakespeare --
692
00:37:00,150 --> 00:37:00,983
Event chicken.
693
00:37:01,140 --> 00:37:02,970
Nobody needs another
rubber chicken dinner.
694
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:03,660
Right?
695
00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:03,810
It's like,
696
00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:06,750
I want to throw a party people actually
want to come to because it feels like
697
00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:10,770
us. And it's a tricky audience, a gala
audience. Because it's often people --
698
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,190
I've got people in my gala who've been
here for 30 years and people who are
699
00:37:14,190 --> 00:37:18,180
walking in my door for the first time.
That's a tough audience to program for.
700
00:37:18,180 --> 00:37:23,100
And so being able to rely on this
joint team to kind of help us walk
701
00:37:23,100 --> 00:37:26,490
that line I think has been really,
really productive and effective.
702
00:37:27,060 --> 00:37:30,960
And we've actually had people tell us,
you guys do these events really well.
703
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:33,480
Like, will you come do ours?
And we're like, absolutely not.
704
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:34,890
That sounds exhausting.
705
00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:38,520
And we certainly have people that
are like, this isn't my event.
706
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:39,420
I'm not into this.
707
00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:40,350
That's absolutely true.
708
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,720
And that's okay, but it's ours.
709
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:47,700
It's truly a CSC event and the people
that love us and know that really enjoy
710
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:51,870
this one. So even Sara who doesn't
necessarily love big events,
711
00:37:51,870 --> 00:37:54,570
I think this one's found a little
way into her heart here a little bit.
712
00:37:54,570 --> 00:37:57,240
It has.
713
00:37:58,260 --> 00:38:03,090
Why do you think the silos between
marketing and development are so common in
714
00:38:03,090 --> 00:38:04,590
arts and cultural organizations?
715
00:38:04,740 --> 00:38:06,210
So we just figured this out.
716
00:38:06,540 --> 00:38:06,970
We did.
717
00:38:06,970 --> 00:38:07,680
Oh, good. Okay.
718
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,750
Well, because we were talking
about it and Jeanna's like, well,
719
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:14,250
I mean sometimes we're
literally physically siloed
when you just don't interact
720
00:38:14,250 --> 00:38:15,960
with people. You've got
this wing of the building,
721
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,530
especially in big organizations, big
shops, and I said it's like, yeah,
722
00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:22,680
that's true. But then that's
kind of also true for any team.
723
00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:25,800
It's like that's why there can be
tension between admin and production or
724
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,850
between the production and the cast or
whatever. Just speaking as a theater,
725
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:33,450
I think with marketing and
development in particular in the arts,
726
00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:38,410
it has to do with the sort of
shared business model that we are
727
00:38:38,410 --> 00:38:43,000
basically 50-50 earned revenue --
so ticket sales, subscriptions,
728
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,320
education, concessions, merch -- to
contributed -- so individual giving,
729
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,650
sponsorships, grants, government
funds, things like that.
730
00:38:50,980 --> 00:38:52,900
And there is a natural tension there.
731
00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:56,620
It's not like if I were to go work
development at another nonprofit agency,
732
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,330
I'm probably 90% of the revenue. If Jeanna
were to go and do marketing for P&G,
733
00:39:01,990 --> 00:39:03,940
her responsibility is to the shareholders.
734
00:39:03,940 --> 00:39:08,050
It's just to sell the product and here
it's both. We have to be the business,
735
00:39:08,050 --> 00:39:09,760
we have to earn your dollar.
736
00:39:10,030 --> 00:39:14,470
And also we are a mission-driven
organization with a 501(C)3
737
00:39:14,740 --> 00:39:17,620
and a charitable purpose.
738
00:39:17,620 --> 00:39:20,800
And so I think in
between those two things,
739
00:39:21,070 --> 00:39:25,180
that is sort of the underlying tension
that these two departments can feel like
740
00:39:25,180 --> 00:39:27,880
they have conflicting goals when
actually they've got the same one.
741
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,120
And that is very unique to arts and
culture. We were sitting here like,
742
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,330
what other industry has this problem?
743
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:36,220
And I'm sure somebody can think of more,
744
00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:40,690
but very clearly arts and culture is
definitely one of them that has this
745
00:39:40,690 --> 00:39:41,080
competing imperative,
746
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,970
which is sort of ill-advised as a
business model and can make things tough.
747
00:39:45,970 --> 00:39:49,840
But that kind of feeds into that
idea of how do you measure success?
748
00:39:49,870 --> 00:39:54,640
It can't always just be ticket
sales. We think about three lenses.
749
00:39:54,730 --> 00:39:57,640
There's sales, there's donations,
and then there's mission.
750
00:39:58,030 --> 00:40:02,110
And we can say something's successful
if it was positive on two of those.
751
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,670
So maybe some play we did
didn't necessarily sell a
lot of tickets or had lower
752
00:40:06,670 --> 00:40:11,500
sales goals, but it really hit our
mission and it really excited funders;
753
00:40:11,770 --> 00:40:15,250
that would be a success. And
maybe we're doing a show,
754
00:40:15,250 --> 00:40:18,160
some silly something at
Christmas, some fun farce.
755
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:23,170
Is it really pushing our mission along?
A little bit. Who doesn't love to laugh.
756
00:40:23,740 --> 00:40:27,790
But it's more for ticket sales, and
that's okay. You have this mix of things,
757
00:40:28,570 --> 00:40:32,980
but if you try to do things that hit
all three all the time -- and you can,
758
00:40:33,250 --> 00:40:37,510
but if you try to do that every time,
that's just -- that path to badness lies.
759
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:40,060
So it'll be really tough to do.
760
00:40:40,540 --> 00:40:41,080
Yeah,
761
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,490
I love the idea of remembering the
mission as something that ties everything
762
00:40:45,490 --> 00:40:50,110
together as well. Though I think
it was a couple of Boot Camps ago,
763
00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:53,470
we were focused mostly on the why,
764
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,930
remembering why you exist in the pandemic.
765
00:40:55,990 --> 00:41:00,430
We've been in this sort of survival thing
for two or three years at that point
766
00:41:00,430 --> 00:41:04,660
and were -- I think a lot of
organizations were forgetting that, hey,
767
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,810
we have a mission, we
have a 'why do we exist'?
768
00:41:07,810 --> 00:41:11,860
And once we refocus our
efforts towards that why,
769
00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:15,670
then we actually function a lot better
as an organization because we have
770
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:17,560
purpose, we have a drive forwards,
771
00:41:17,570 --> 00:41:21,010
and we communicate that a lot
better when we double down on that.
772
00:41:21,490 --> 00:41:22,990
And that's actually true in business too.
773
00:41:23,290 --> 00:41:26,380
That's Simon Sinek and 'The Power of
Why' and 'The Infinite Game.' It's like
774
00:41:26,380 --> 00:41:31,060
even for-profit companies do better
when they're actually trying to reach
775
00:41:31,060 --> 00:41:33,380
for that vision and the
purpose isn't to win,
776
00:41:33,380 --> 00:41:36,650
it's to perpetuate the game
to make everybody better.
777
00:41:37,010 --> 00:41:37,843
Yeah.
778
00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:41,930
Another thing we looked at in the previous
Boot Camp that we did was hospitality
779
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,770
and understanding everyone's journey
from the moment they first interact with
780
00:41:45,770 --> 00:41:50,480
your organization to the moment they
leave and after, going forwards.
781
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,320
And it seems like you have
a 360 view of the entire
782
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,200
organization and that journey. Can
you speak to that a little bit?
783
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,430
Yeah. That has become more and
more important since the pandemic.
784
00:42:02,420 --> 00:42:07,370
As people broke the habit of going out
and seeing shows or going out and doing
785
00:42:07,370 --> 00:42:11,240
something outside of their home,
getting them back into that habit,
786
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:14,990
you have to promise them a good
experience, a comfortable experience.
787
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,780
They want to know that if they're
taking their time and their money,
788
00:42:18,110 --> 00:42:22,460
that it will be a good time and that
could be challenging if you're not
789
00:42:22,460 --> 00:42:25,370
communicating what people
can expect about a show,
790
00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:28,880
if you're not learning about blind spots
that maybe you don't see about some
791
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,510
space in your building or the seating
being uncomfortable or I couldn't find the
792
00:42:32,510 --> 00:42:36,440
bathroom, all of those things, if
somebody can't do those things,
793
00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:38,660
no matter how amazing your performance is,
794
00:42:38,660 --> 00:42:41,660
they will have left feeling
like they had a bad experience.
795
00:42:42,110 --> 00:42:46,070
And so all of us on marketing and
development are responsible for that
796
00:42:46,070 --> 00:42:48,530
experience. Somebody
might have even -- again,
797
00:42:48,530 --> 00:42:51,290
it's from the second that they
might see an ad and decide,
798
00:42:51,290 --> 00:42:54,710
I might be interested in that. Let me go
to the website. That's when it begins.
799
00:42:55,100 --> 00:42:56,930
How easy was it for
them to find the ticket?
800
00:42:56,930 --> 00:42:58,370
How easy was it for them
to know where to go?
801
00:42:58,370 --> 00:43:01,010
All those things have become vital now.
802
00:43:01,070 --> 00:43:02,870
I think another big thing
that contributes, too, is --
803
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:04,460
and this is true in
marketing and development --
804
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,950
the second engagement is
always harder than the first.
805
00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,290
So the second gift is harder
to get than the first gift.
806
00:43:09,770 --> 00:43:13,130
Getting somebody to buy a second ticket
is harder than getting them to engage
807
00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:17,480
the first time and being able to put
that focus and accountability around
808
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,470
someone's holistic experience I
think helps reinforce that idea.
809
00:43:21,470 --> 00:43:24,920
It can't just be enough that they
enjoyed the show, right? It's not enough.
810
00:43:24,980 --> 00:43:25,880
It's got to be more than that.
811
00:43:26,210 --> 00:43:28,280
One thing that I got from development --
812
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,970
so that report that says what
donors are coming that weekend --
813
00:43:31,970 --> 00:43:35,840
so one thing Sara does is she will take
note cards and write a little note to
814
00:43:36,140 --> 00:43:39,590
some donors or maybe she knows something
about somebody that's coming back after
815
00:43:39,590 --> 00:43:40,730
an illness or something.
816
00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:45,200
She'll write a personal note and give it
to the front of house and they set them
817
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,750
on the seats for those people
when they come into their seat.
818
00:43:47,780 --> 00:43:51,800
So sort of stealing that idea.
When someone's a first timer now,
819
00:43:51,830 --> 00:43:55,340
they get a special note from us that
says, we see that you're a first timer.
820
00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:57,770
Thank you so much for trying
us out for the first time.
821
00:43:58,130 --> 00:44:00,890
There has been a $20 credit
applied to your account.
822
00:44:00,890 --> 00:44:02,690
You don't need to do anything.
You don't need a code.
823
00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:05,840
Next time you buy tickets with us,
there'll be $20 off. Please come back.
824
00:44:06,380 --> 00:44:09,320
And that's been working
really well for us. Again,
825
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,710
it's that kind of psychology of, I have
now $20 burning a hole in my pocket,
826
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:16,760
I want to use it. But that came from the
sort of small moves from development.
827
00:44:17,330 --> 00:44:21,200
Again, it's like that might
apply to 30 people in a night.
828
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,500
It's sort of a lot of effort
for a small group of people,
829
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:27,770
but getting somebody to come back
a second time is so important.
830
00:44:27,770 --> 00:44:28,490
It's huge.
831
00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:28,940
It's huge.
832
00:44:28,940 --> 00:44:33,480
It's worth that time and effort to do
something like that that we've taken from
833
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:35,190
and something we're
inspired from development.
834
00:44:35,460 --> 00:44:37,320
And some of the hardest parts
we have is, sometimes --
835
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,760
so one thing we do that we didn't realize
was so unique was audience surveys.
836
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,830
So not sending audience surveys.
A lot of people do that,
837
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,810
but how often do you read them?
We print them out, every single one,
838
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:53,340
and we sit down at a meeting at the end
of every show with the whole team --
839
00:44:53,340 --> 00:44:55,590
development, marketing,
production, the artistic team.
840
00:44:55,740 --> 00:44:58,500
Sometimes actors and directors
from the show are in the room.
841
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,970
And we read every single
comment. And it can be tough,
842
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:05,250
anonymous comments.
843
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:08,010
Sometimes people just say what they're
thinking and have different feelings
844
00:45:08,010 --> 00:45:08,760
about it.
845
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:13,320
But always from those conversations
we leave with something that helped us
846
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,150
understand what people were thinking
about our show or our experience or our
847
00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:20,670
just general, what's it
like to walk in our doors?
848
00:45:20,910 --> 00:45:24,690
Those comments range from 'I couldn't
find parking' to 'I would've done
849
00:45:24,690 --> 00:45:27,030
something different with the
vocal projection of this actor.'
850
00:45:28,530 --> 00:45:30,210
It could range from all things.
851
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:36,150
So looking at those comments is so
valuable and making sure everybody is
852
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:40,860
in them together and reading them all
at once, we glean so much from that.
853
00:45:41,460 --> 00:45:44,940
And I think it helps create sort
of an overall culture of constant
854
00:45:44,940 --> 00:45:48,630
self-assessment. If we can be accused
of anything as an organization,
855
00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:51,240
it's that we have to remember
to celebrate our wins sometimes.
856
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:56,130
So we've had to kind of build things
in to be like, Hey, high five, go team.
857
00:45:56,130 --> 00:46:00,330
Yay. Yes, we did this. Good job. We are
very much kind of, okay, what's next?
858
00:46:00,330 --> 00:46:02,910
What's next? And that
is good, that's healthy,
859
00:46:03,390 --> 00:46:05,010
it keeps us on a high
standard of excellence,
860
00:46:05,010 --> 00:46:09,600
but you kind of build up that skin
and everybody goes through it and
861
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,350
we're constantly, even when
something was a wild success,
862
00:46:13,350 --> 00:46:16,140
it's doing that postmortem
and going, great, what worked?
863
00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:18,420
Tell me what was successful and
what we want to repeat again.
864
00:46:18,420 --> 00:46:22,890
And then what can we make even 10%
better the next time we do this?
865
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,230
It's a muscle because it's hard.
866
00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:29,610
Those negative comments ring
so much more in your head.
867
00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:34,800
But really trying to look at
that objectively and also see
868
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,880
all the hundreds of really positive ones
or things people said, it can be hard.
869
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,180
And I can see how if pitching that
and sitting in a room with an artistic
870
00:46:42,180 --> 00:46:43,013
leader,
871
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,130
you know how they can get emotional or
they're very passionate about the work
872
00:46:47,130 --> 00:46:51,630
that they do. I mean that's why they're
the leader, but it's just so important.
873
00:46:52,260 --> 00:46:56,490
We like to say we do these shows
for people, which sounds so obvious,
874
00:46:56,490 --> 00:47:01,380
but sometimes we forget that people
are coming in and seeing the show.
875
00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:05,430
Did they have a good time? It's
the question we want to know.
876
00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:08,820
And it's fascinating to me the number
of people that really can't answer that
877
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:10,860
necessarily for every show they do.
878
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,190
Yeah. So that's such a hard
balance to celebrate the win,
879
00:47:14,190 --> 00:47:18,510
but also listen as well to
lighter things. I remember --
880
00:47:18,510 --> 00:47:19,650
I do a lot of improv,
881
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,130
and the first time was I
was in Edinburgh doing that,
882
00:47:23,370 --> 00:47:27,000
I remember all my reviews, but I
think about the worst ones the most.
883
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:27,833
Yeah, of course you do.
884
00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:31,690
We got called the antimatter of
improv once and I was like...
885
00:47:32,020 --> 00:47:33,070
Wow.
886
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,830
That took a little bit of celebration.
887
00:47:35,890 --> 00:47:38,920
I like that. We've occasionally been
accused of marring things with comedy,
888
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,510
so I appreciate that. So the
antimatter of improv, I like it.
889
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,700
People are so mad. 'I don't
want to be laughing at this!'.
890
00:47:48,110 --> 00:47:51,640
Oh dear. I love what you said about
the entire experience as well.
891
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,210
We recently talked with the head of guest
experiences from the Detroit Zoo and
892
00:47:55,210 --> 00:47:56,043
they made the point of,
893
00:47:57,070 --> 00:47:59,890
nobody's going to enjoy the exhibits if
they don't know where the bathroom is.
894
00:48:00,670 --> 00:48:04,720
And that kind of stuff of what you're
saying of that guest experience,
895
00:48:04,990 --> 00:48:09,910
hospitality and accessibility as well
is just incredibly important I think in
896
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:11,110
organizations these days.
897
00:48:11,380 --> 00:48:11,830
That's right,
898
00:48:11,830 --> 00:48:15,400
and that's something Sara and I are really
good at is really thinking about when
899
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,120
someone comes in, do they know where
to go? Can they be comfortable here?
900
00:48:19,930 --> 00:48:20,980
That's important to me.
901
00:48:20,980 --> 00:48:23,950
That's something I always really
do when I'm attending things.
902
00:48:24,580 --> 00:48:27,970
I think it's fascinating the number
of theaters that don't have photos and
903
00:48:27,970 --> 00:48:32,110
information on their physical seats
available for people if they want to learn
904
00:48:32,110 --> 00:48:36,460
about what it is that I'll be sitting
in for three hours. Fascinating to me.
905
00:48:36,460 --> 00:48:39,700
So we have our seat plan on there,
we have information on there. Again,
906
00:48:39,730 --> 00:48:40,840
it's not for everyone.
907
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,650
It's for that small percentage of people
that that's important information and
908
00:48:44,650 --> 00:48:47,290
an important barrier. Where are
the wheelchair accessible seats?
909
00:48:47,290 --> 00:48:50,950
Is there a ramp? Do I have to do
stairs to get to certain places?
910
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,090
We try to make all that information
available so somebody doesn't come in and
911
00:48:55,090 --> 00:48:57,910
have a bad night because they didn't
have the information they needed in
912
00:48:57,910 --> 00:49:00,730
advance. That's terrible.
Somebody's come to the door.
913
00:49:00,910 --> 00:49:02,890
I want them to be able to
come in and have a nice time.
914
00:49:03,700 --> 00:49:08,020
And I think that goes into the people
too, the staff, the attitude. It is,
915
00:49:08,020 --> 00:49:11,500
like Jeanna said, you're giving us
two of your most precious resources,
916
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:14,890
your money and your time, and
we don't take that for granted.
917
00:49:15,370 --> 00:49:15,790
You'll have something --
918
00:49:15,790 --> 00:49:19,600
you'll hear me say all the time if I'm
at a donor event or a sponsor event or
919
00:49:19,780 --> 00:49:22,630
honestly just walking through the lobby
of the theater before the show and in
920
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:25,270
conversation with someone
is, I'm so glad you're here.
921
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:28,060
And I say it a lot but
I mean it every time.
922
00:49:28,180 --> 00:49:32,800
I don't take for granted what it took
for you to walk through that door
923
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,440
tonight. And it matters
to me that you're there.
924
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,860
And I think that kind of goes throughout
the staff looking at those comments.
925
00:49:38,860 --> 00:49:42,310
We get a lot of really, really positive
things about our front of house.
926
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,350
And you might just be a volunteer usher,
927
00:49:44,350 --> 00:49:48,400
you might be a contracted
bartender or whatever it is,
928
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,640
but that sense of 'you matter
when you come through the door,
929
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:52,540
it doesn't matter who you are.'.
930
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,310
And the comments we get that are like,
931
00:49:54,310 --> 00:49:59,200
'Your team made it so easy to exchange
tickets. Thank you so much.' I'm like,
932
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:03,280
what are we doing to people at other
buildings to let them pick a new...?
933
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:04,540
They're so traumatized.
934
00:50:04,540 --> 00:50:07,180
They're so traumatized.
Everyone listening,
935
00:50:07,180 --> 00:50:09,610
please help put better energy out there.
936
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:14,500
Why are we making this hard for folks
to just have flexibility in their
937
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:14,860
schedule?
938
00:50:14,860 --> 00:50:18,250
We don't want to be considered like
airlines when you buy a ticket and that's
939
00:50:18,250 --> 00:50:21,220
it, and you're screwed if you don't
want to go or you can't go or something.
940
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,150
But the important piece that the loop
that's closed is our artistic director
941
00:50:25,150 --> 00:50:27,770
sees that, he knows that's
the thing that we're doing,
942
00:50:27,770 --> 00:50:30,290
and he can thank the front of
house next time he sees them.
943
00:50:30,620 --> 00:50:34,430
And it means a lot to those people to
continue developing and doing a good job
944
00:50:34,430 --> 00:50:37,580
because they know everyone really does
appreciate the work that they're putting
945
00:50:37,580 --> 00:50:41,030
forward. But that does start with Sara
and I, because my policy is always,
946
00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:44,630
if someone has entered this building to
see a show, they need to see the show.
947
00:50:44,660 --> 00:50:47,930
So if their tickets aren't where they
said they'd be or there's some problem,
948
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,850
whatever, let 'em in. We'll sort it out.
Just taking down the barriers of that.
949
00:50:54,290 --> 00:50:56,990
Stop making things so
complicated. Don't be so precious.
950
00:50:57,410 --> 00:50:59,030
Yeah. Jeanna,
951
00:50:59,030 --> 00:51:02,510
what do you wish more fundraisers
understood about marketing strategy?
952
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:04,310
Well,
953
00:51:04,310 --> 00:51:08,330
I kind of want to flip it and talk a
little bit about what I now understand
954
00:51:08,330 --> 00:51:11,420
about fundraising strategy that
I've been able to use in marketing.
955
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:17,120
The biggest piece of that is that
it's okay to slow down and do the
956
00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:20,990
next right thing if maybe it doesn't
necessarily mean I'm going to get a ticket
957
00:51:20,990 --> 00:51:23,990
sale tomorrow. That could
be the biggest thing is,
958
00:51:24,020 --> 00:51:28,040
how can I take time to
actually develop the audience,
959
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,260
learn about what it is
that they're looking for,
960
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:33,830
listen to them and get them
to be a new ticket buyer?
961
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,860
And the value of
storytelling. The long game.
962
00:51:37,550 --> 00:51:40,910
So being able to tell a longer
story, get people to join us,
963
00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:42,530
why we might be doing a show.
964
00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:46,580
Help them understand if maybe the show
that they're seeing isn't necessarily
965
00:51:46,580 --> 00:51:47,660
their favorite thing,
966
00:51:47,660 --> 00:51:50,150
but they might understand why
we've done it for mission reasons.
967
00:51:50,390 --> 00:51:53,240
They might understand why we did it
because we got support from the community.
968
00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:57,380
All of those things I think I've really
learned from fundraising strategy has
969
00:51:57,410 --> 00:51:58,520
helped me in marketing.
970
00:51:59,450 --> 00:52:03,200
Awesome. And Sara, on the flip side,
what have you learned from marketing?
971
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,860
I think it really is the value
of the voice of the customer.
972
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:12,260
I think what philanthropists are good
at is kind of that small connection,
973
00:52:12,260 --> 00:52:15,050
that conversation, that
anecdotal piece of data,
974
00:52:15,050 --> 00:52:16,460
and that can be really valuable,
975
00:52:16,460 --> 00:52:19,430
but it's not the strongest
decision-making tool.
976
00:52:19,460 --> 00:52:23,540
I think what marketing really understands
is that you can't make the best
977
00:52:23,540 --> 00:52:28,010
decisions based on assumptions
that aren't based in good
978
00:52:28,340 --> 00:52:30,440
data, or at least as good as you can.
979
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,520
And so it might be something as simple
as if you're trying to reinvent what a
980
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,860
fundraising event looks
like, it's like, well,
981
00:52:37,130 --> 00:52:40,760
I can kind of go off of my gut or my
personal experience and those things are
982
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:41,300
valuable,
983
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:44,960
but Jeanna can also help me put a survey
together and I can actually ask my
984
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:46,100
people some of these questions.
985
00:52:46,100 --> 00:52:49,520
I can actually get better information
that's going to help me make better
986
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,430
decisions for my department and
for the organization at large.
987
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,950
If another organization is listening
and feeling stuck in their silos,
988
00:52:58,280 --> 00:52:59,113
where can they start?
989
00:53:00,980 --> 00:53:04,460
Small. I mean, we've referenced it before,
990
00:53:04,460 --> 00:53:07,850
but a lot of this work
I think has to do with
991
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:13,280
letting go of ego, releasing
your hold on your petty kingdom,
992
00:53:13,610 --> 00:53:17,240
your little corner where if
you've planted your flag,
993
00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:20,420
allow yourself to be curious,
994
00:53:20,420 --> 00:53:25,230
to be vulnerable and to go first.
So it's easy to go, oh yeah,
995
00:53:25,230 --> 00:53:28,680
that'd be great, but I want the
other person to be vulnerable first.
996
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:33,270
To make the offer first. It's like,
nah, whoever's listening, you go first.
997
00:53:33,330 --> 00:53:34,320
Take a small step.
998
00:53:34,890 --> 00:53:36,270
You're the one you've been waiting for.
999
00:53:40,410 --> 00:53:40,410
Aww.
1000
00:53:40,410 --> 00:53:42,930
I think I saw that on a
poster or something. You know,
1001
00:53:42,930 --> 00:53:43,440
I can't take total credit.
1002
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:44,100
Oh, sure.
1003
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:45,810
Yeah. Yes.
1004
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:51,240
Getting curious and stop being precious
about things and be authentic because
1005
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:52,740
I think it is the personal connection.
1006
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:56,700
Be humans together. That's
how you do any of this.
1007
00:53:57,030 --> 00:54:00,540
It's harder to be crappy about your
coworker when they were at your house for
1008
00:54:00,540 --> 00:54:01,373
dinner last week
1009
00:54:02,850 --> 00:54:06,930
or when you guys can just go downstairs
once a week to the bar and celebrate a
1010
00:54:06,930 --> 00:54:11,520
small win or empathize around something
that is hard that you're going through.
1011
00:54:11,730 --> 00:54:13,380
I mean, it's very obvious.
Sara and I are friends.
1012
00:54:13,380 --> 00:54:15,060
We've worked together
for a very long time,
1013
00:54:15,780 --> 00:54:18,960
but that doesn't necessarily mean that
we don't argue or we don't clash about
1014
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,750
things. But because we've
sort of built this rapport,
1015
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,350
she knows I only want the best for the
department and I only am feeling what's
1016
00:54:25,350 --> 00:54:26,183
the best for mine.
1017
00:54:26,370 --> 00:54:30,870
So all the passion that's coming from
maybe a potential debate is all driving
1018
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:33,750
towards that. So let's
hold on that and say, well,
1019
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:35,280
how could we make this better?
1020
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:38,970
And that can make those
harder conversations easier.
1021
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:41,070
But if you don't have that
rapport with somebody,
1022
00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:44,760
then the conversation is just an
argument and you're not getting anywhere
1023
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:49,200
necessarily. But anybody that's
doing this work in arts and culture,
1024
00:54:50,430 --> 00:54:52,770
they have to be passionate about
the thing that they're doing.
1025
00:54:53,070 --> 00:54:56,490
I think that the people we work with in
our company and people that I meet every
1026
00:54:56,490 --> 00:54:59,760
day in arts and culture are some
of the most fascinating, lovely,
1027
00:54:59,820 --> 00:55:00,990
authentic folks.
1028
00:55:01,890 --> 00:55:04,560
And that's one of the reasons why I
choose to stay in this industry and not
1029
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,880
necessarily move to a corporate
industry personally. So know that.
1030
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,570
Know that about the people that
have chosen to do this career.
1031
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,540
They're lovely, passionate
folks somewhere,
1032
00:55:15,540 --> 00:55:19,620
even if they might be entrenched over
decades of being stressed and working
1033
00:55:19,620 --> 00:55:23,340
late. They care about the
thing that you care about too.
1034
00:55:23,850 --> 00:55:25,350
So that's really where you can start.
1035
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:27,390
Yeah, there's a reason we're all here.
1036
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:29,340
Right, exactly.
1037
00:55:30,540 --> 00:55:35,340
If you could broadcast one message to
executive directors, leadership teams,
1038
00:55:35,340 --> 00:55:39,600
staff and boards of thousands of
arts organizations, what would it be?
1039
00:55:40,770 --> 00:55:42,750
So some of it is kind of
what we've referenced before.
1040
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,910
I think this starts at the top and
it starts with executives releasing a
1041
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:51,150
little bit of hold and
trusting their people.
1042
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,750
If you want to build a culture of trust
at your organization where there is
1043
00:55:54,750 --> 00:55:58,950
trust between teams, that's
got to come from you as well.
1044
00:55:59,310 --> 00:56:04,260
And so it's those -- that transparency,
that accountability, that vulnerability.
1045
00:56:04,260 --> 00:56:07,470
That's the ability to say 'I
don't know' or 'I'm not sure,
1046
00:56:07,470 --> 00:56:12,270
I need help.' I think when that
goes both and all ways across an
1047
00:56:12,270 --> 00:56:15,120
organization, that only
strengthens all of us.
1048
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,930
That helps everybody kind of be their
best selves and do their best work.
1049
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,260
And we like to say that
we like to be managed up.
1050
00:56:22,620 --> 00:56:25,360
So we have my one-on-ones with my reports,
1051
00:56:25,720 --> 00:56:29,800
they begin that meeting and they bring
the things that they want my take on that
1052
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,490
they need to update me on. My reports
know I don't like to be surprised,
1053
00:56:33,490 --> 00:56:37,780
so that's a great time to bring me
information. Let me know good or bad news.
1054
00:56:37,810 --> 00:56:41,830
It's only going to help us if we
all know what's going on. Manage up,
1055
00:56:41,980 --> 00:56:46,180
allow yourself to be managed versus
knowing that when you walk in the room,
1056
00:56:46,180 --> 00:56:49,180
everything you're saying is going to go
down on the people that you're saying it
1057
00:56:49,180 --> 00:56:50,680
to. Try and flip it.
1058
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:55,090
What would they start with in a meeting
with you if they had the opportunity to
1059
00:56:55,090 --> 00:56:59,620
do so? And that can be kind of scary, I
think, to let go of that a little bit.
1060
00:56:59,620 --> 00:57:01,420
But I think by allowing that,
1061
00:57:01,420 --> 00:57:04,480
you're going to just learn more things
than you could ever have done yourself.
1062
00:57:05,260 --> 00:57:08,830
There's a fun adage in development
talking about making an ask of a donor,
1063
00:57:08,830 --> 00:57:12,490
and it's: if you want money, ask for
advice. If you want advice, ask for money.
1064
00:57:12,910 --> 00:57:16,030
And I think that the equivalent
here -- it really is.
1065
00:57:16,210 --> 00:57:21,100
It's not always about having the
answer or kind of dictating the plan or
1066
00:57:21,100 --> 00:57:22,360
whatever. Not that --
1067
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,810
so much leadership comes from that
kind of servant leadership model.
1068
00:57:25,810 --> 00:57:30,640
It's that ability to really want to
understand and trust that there are good
1069
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:31,930
ideas all around you.
1070
00:57:32,140 --> 00:57:35,980
And as long as everybody's on the same
boat and is rowing in the same direction,
1071
00:57:36,340 --> 00:57:37,510
you're going to succeed.
1072
00:57:38,590 --> 00:57:41,590
This conversation's been absolutely
delightful. So thank you so much,
1073
00:57:41,770 --> 00:57:43,510
Jeanna and Sara for joining us here today.
1074
00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:46,450
Thank you so much for having
us. This is really fun.
1075
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:48,070
We like talking about what we do.
1076
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:51,910
And I'd love to hear -- so
after I spoke at Boot Camp,
1077
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:55,810
one of the best parts was hearing from
people that had seen the presentation on
1078
00:57:55,810 --> 00:57:57,760
social media or LinkedIn or email.
1079
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,670
So I really would encourage
folks to reach out to us.
1080
00:58:00,850 --> 00:58:03,910
I love to hear what other people sort
of think about these things and some of
1081
00:58:03,910 --> 00:58:06,250
the strategies that they're doing
at their own organizations as well.
1082
00:58:12,970 --> 00:58:15,250
What a great conversation.
Well, before we go,
1083
00:58:15,460 --> 00:58:18,820
it's time for another round of CI-lebrity
Sightings where we spotlight CI
1084
00:58:19,060 --> 00:58:21,100
clients making headlines. First up,
1085
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:25,300
the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra received
a generous $5 million gift to support
1086
00:58:25,300 --> 00:58:28,780
its family and educational programming.
According to The Violin Channel,
1087
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:31,990
the donation will expand on the
symphony's outreach initiatives and help
1088
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:34,780
introduce more young people
to the power of music.
1089
00:58:35,140 --> 00:58:39,460
Big applause for investing in the
next generation of music lovers! Next,
1090
00:58:39,550 --> 00:58:44,530
WLWT News shared that the Cincinnati Art
Museum is planning a major expansion of
1091
00:58:44,530 --> 00:58:45,490
the Art Climb.
1092
00:58:45,700 --> 00:58:49,690
That's the museum's nine-story outdoor
staircase surrounded by public art and
1093
00:58:49,690 --> 00:58:53,590
lush landscaping. The updates
will focus on accessibility,
1094
00:58:53,740 --> 00:58:57,100
adding paths designed for visitors
using wheelchairs or pushing strollers.
1095
00:58:57,430 --> 00:59:01,120
What a meaningful step forward in creating
a truly welcoming experience for all.
1096
00:59:01,630 --> 00:59:04,480
Finally, TODAY.com caught
up with Bobby Barnett,
1097
00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:08,650
Artistic Director Emeritus of Atlanta
Ballet, who just turned 100 -- yes,
1098
00:59:08,710 --> 00:59:11,530
100 -- and still has his dancing shoes on.
1099
00:59:12,010 --> 00:59:15,190
Bobby shared his three secrets to a long
happy life, and our personal favorite?
1100
00:59:15,460 --> 00:59:18,610
'Doing what you love with who
you love.' Happy birthday, Bobby,
1101
00:59:18,610 --> 00:59:20,020
and thank you for the inspiration.
1102
00:59:20,590 --> 00:59:24,260
We hope these stories leave you smiling
and remind you of the impact this field
1103
00:59:24,260 --> 00:59:27,650
can have when we lead with
heart, purpose, and creativity.
1104
00:59:28,370 --> 00:59:31,220
Got a story that deserves a shout out?
Well, tag us on social and let us know.
1105
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:42,980
Thank you for listening to CI to Eye.
1106
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:47,660
This episode was edited and produced by
Karen McConarty and co-written by Karen
1107
00:59:47,660 --> 00:59:49,130
McConarty and myself, Dan Titmuss.
1108
00:59:49,850 --> 00:59:54,590
Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are CI
to Eye's designers and video editors and
1109
00:59:54,590 --> 00:59:59,570
all work together to create CI's digital
content. Our music is by whoisuzo.
1110
01:00:00,470 --> 01:00:01,880
If you enjoyed today's episode,
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