Anna Goff: Hello, thank you so much for joining the Aligned Podcast. I'm your host, Anna Gough, along with my co-host Molly Rubish. And today we're talking about a timely topic in the news, ⁓ the Cornell 7. And we are just gonna dive right in and talk about how we feel about it, but also how we feel as women and our history around topics kind of like in like this, right? so Molly, Tell me a little bit about what you think what your thoughts are around this particular story.
Molly Rubesh: I mean, first that poor Jane Doe and her what she underwent and how she will be impacted by that traumatic event for the rest of her life. And now she also has to be drugged through the courts and you know, I know she's anonymous, but she knows. So her body and her nervous system and the trauma and the injustice and the violation. So my heart aches for her as a woman. and I and so I I think we talk so much about this on a grander scale. I don't want to lose sight of her because she's the one that actually was the victim. And she will never ever ever be the same. That young girl, that 20 year old went to a fraternity party like we all have done and ended up having
Anna Goff: Right. Yeah. ⁓
Molly Rubesh: A a life-altering event. So my heart ultimately aches for her. And then we pivot to this whole collective.
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I as a mother of three boys, I'm just petrified and ashamed and mortified that men are capable, young men are capable of doing this and then and the other people in the Snapchat that, you know, don't feel like they can advocate and say, Hey, whoa, what what are you doing? ⁓ and then as a mother of a young daughter, ⁓ that will be going to college in two years, it's terrifying.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. And in so many ways that Jane Doe is so many of us. I would say every myself included, every woman that I know has been through some sort of something similar to this, whether it's to this extent, hopefully not, but whether it's being at a party, ⁓ maybe ⁓ drinking too much, being told
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: ⁓ that you shouldn't wear something worrying, you know, we've all as women worried when you get into an elevator, you size up who you're walking in to the elevator with if there's someone else in the elevator. ⁓ you know, you make choices about whether you're gonna take the stairs, whether you're gonna go, you know, take a shortcut, go through an alley, walk to your car, you have your keys in between your fingers, ⁓ you know, you look under your car, you look in your back seat. you ⁓ walk with a friend, you don't get into an Uber by yourself. I mean, I have so many stories from, you know, my teens, twenties, thirties, ⁓ where there are little things that have happened that really do impact the rest of your life. And thankfully nothing to this extent happened to me. But you know, to blame this woman, this young woman, for taking drugs or drinking, or we don't I mean, I don't know the whole story, right? But even if she did take drugs, even if she did get drunk, even if all of these things, that does not mean that she should be raped, that she should be victimized. And I think that is the message that we need to be teaching our boys, because I too have a boy, ⁓
Molly Rubesh: No.
Anna Goff: And we need to be teaching our boys it doesn't you need to advocate for the woman. You need to stand up against these predators that think that it's okay to use a woman's body as their sex toy or their property. ⁓ and because she's had too much to drink, she now can become violated and that's just totally fine. ⁓ and not only do we need to teach our boys to not ever treat a woman like this, but we also need to teach them to advocate against it and to speak up, to call the police, to stop their friends. and not just, you know, this is this is against women, this is a sexual, you know, act that ⁓ is horrific. But there are so many other things that I think boys and men don't speak up about. ⁓ when it comes to situations that happen in fraternities, whether it's hazing or drinking or ⁓ drugs or things that we hear over and over and over again and it's really the scary part about being a boy mom I think when when you hear these stories.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. Yeah, there's there's so it it's incredibly fearful or you know, fear-provoking to to have these conversations with your sons and then know that when they're get in an environment like a fraternity and being silent is actually not as bad, of course, as going into the room, but you're you have to be the brave one. And we are taught so early and these kids are, you know, the snitches get stitches type mentality, and they don't want to be the one to use their voice. They're not confident enough. Maybe they're a younger lower classman versus an upperclassman. Maybe they are afraid that they will then be in trouble for something. ⁓ and so people turn a blind eye when they know. But we even have a bigger issue because and not to get political, but when you look at people of power
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm.
Molly Rubesh: You look a people in in big roles, the the the Weinstein, the Jeffrey Epstein, our president, there are so many men that have taken advantage of women and all varying levels, but then they're in these positions of power. So when I'm in my kitchen and I am advocating to these boys, my three sons, about the a the importance of fighting
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: On behalf of a wim woman and loving her and supporting her, whether you know her or not, and protecting this woman, we have role models and people of bigger power and leadership that don't do the same. So it's a it's a mixed signal. We need men, we need our husbands and the fathers of our children to be looking at their men. and their children in their face and saying, you don't ever attack a woman. You don't ever, you know, you it is your job. It has to be coming from men. So, and of course us as mothers, but this is an uphill battle. We've got to make sure that the the men that are mentoring our men are advocating for women the way that and that's how you have change.
Anna Goff: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, as you were talking, ⁓ there's a lot that's gone on over the past, I don't know, ten, fifteen years, where the whole the Me Too movement and then the ⁓ w women are equal movement, ⁓ has in some ways I think made men feel like they can't advocate in the same way, or maybe that like when women are saying I'm equal, ⁓ then somehow there's a message that they don't need to be protected. and I think what the the conversation shouldn't be that women aren't equal when it comes to everything, right? Like we can do the same job as men and all of that. But we are not equal in strength. We are not equal in being able to stand up for ourselves physically in so many ways and and so understanding that, you know, as a man, you are scarier. I mean, we've done a podcast before where, you know, with Alex who we talked about like just the power of a man and knowing that he can overpower you, that he can control you, take you down.
Molly Rubesh: Right. Right.
Anna Goff: assault you, whatever. Like a woman can't do that to a man. Like I can't sexually assault a man. Right? Like it doesn't work like that. And I can't hold a man down and have my way with him. I can't I'm not going to attack a man in a dark alley, right? And so it isn't the same.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: We aren't on the same playing field when it comes to that. And oftentimes men are the ones in positions of power. Men are the pastors. Men are the CEOs. And this isn't all men, obviously, like women can have these positions as well. But ⁓ they are the ones controlling so many situations and putting these women in these positions where ⁓ they feel like they either have to go along with it or they won't be able to sit in the same room.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. I saw ⁓ a reel this morning that was somebody interviewing a lot of women and sh the interviewer said to people on the street, If you what would you do tonight if you could go anywhere and feel safe? What would you don't do if you knew safety you had you had ultimate safety? And they're like, I would Roam the streets and look at the stars. I would read on a park bench. I would just walk around. I would and every single woman answered. I would walk to my car. I would sit on a bench. I would, you know, look at the stars outside. I would meet a friend for a drink and walk home by myself. And when sh they asked men, they were like, I would go skydiving. I would do, you know, more like thrill seeking type stuff. I would race a motorcycle. And so they're not fearful, men are not fearful of their safety amongst the human population. Women are fearful of their safety on the streets. And so women aren't asking for a bubble to make sure that we could skydive and not be injured. We're asking for a bubble that we don't get attacked in a park.
Anna Goff: And
Molly Rubesh: On a park bench by ourselves. And that feeling, like when you said, you know, we we get in the car and we like look in the backseat, and that adrenaline rush that we all feel, that we all know, and you know, we lock the doors really fast and I start the car really fast and I'm putting it in drive really fast because I'm not I don't trust that somebody's not gonna come up next to me. Now is that paranoid? I don't know, but probably not.
Anna Goff: Right. Right. ⁓ huh. Probably not. Probably not.
Molly Rubesh: You know, it probably not. And I I make choices based on, you know, where I want to go for dinner or meet a friend or whatever, based on the parking situation and how safe I am. You know, my daughter does the same thing about like, well, you know, where I I don't feel safe there. And men just don't have that same that same feeling. They don't have to deal with that.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Right, right. Even walking down the street during the day, if you're alone and you're, you know, about to approach someone, you're looking at them, you're sizing them up, you're deciding like does this p person feel scary or not? And that is in every single thing and that's something that we just innately do as women. We learn how to do that. And I too I mean obviously there are tons of reels going around about this right now, but
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: I saw one this morning that was like instead of teaching women how to protect themselves, why don't we teach men how to not attack women? How to not, you know, sexually assault women. And that really needs to be the story. We need to protect our women. These are the mothers, the sisters, the daughters, the cousins, the aunts, the you know, these are these like these boys.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: family, right? Like it it could be their best friend's sister that they did this to, the ki the little girl that they grew up with. And if we don't teach them as little boys to respect and honor women and say, you know, these women have the same value as me. They need to be protected. They need to be revered. They need to be cared for because they are weaker. They don't have, you know, massive amounts of testosterone running through their bodies and, you know, wanna fight and have sex and be, you know, whatever. And it we we don't stand a chance against a man, if you know, and that's the bottom line. And I mean, I'm pretty strong, you're pretty strong, we both lift weights, we do all of those things, but if a man wanted to overpower either one of us, even a smaller, weaker man, they could. And And so I think that we need to teach our boys to use their masculinity for good to protect women and protect other men. But and I mean that in a way of like standing up for somebody, but also say this isn't right when they are witnessing things that are that are absolutely horrific, like what happened to this poor woman.
Molly Rubesh: Mm. Yeah, I mean again ⁓ the I saw another reel. I mean they're just they're just so on point right now and it said if you were in a camp if you were camping, are you more afraid of a strange man walking outside of your camp or a bear?
Anna Goff: ⁓ yeah. A man, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: Than a bear that could maul you. And if the man wanted to, could protect you. But if the man wanted to, he also could, you know, hurt you. And it's just, it's just really sad. And so I think that this Jane Doe is ex incredibly brave for continuing to push this forward. Incredibly brave for advocating for herself. But these are the types of things that do.
Anna Goff: Right.
Molly Rubesh: Cause people to stop to recognize it. Hopefully, men, teenage boys, hopefully guys in fraternities are seeing this and going, I don't ever want to have my face plastered on every single social media platform. One right after the other, they're losing their jobs. Hopefully, that one kid gets kicked out of med school. You know, so we're making examples of them. One four.
Anna Goff: Uh-huh.
Molly Rubesh: Jane Doe and for her to get her I you know, to feel supported and loved and for these kids to have consequences, but also for complete reform and the embarrassing disgrace of the leadership of the Cornell University to not have advocated for her. Even I you know, and and of course some of this could be rumor, but that they she asked to withdraw, they didn't give her her money back. I mean, it's just like nonsensical stuff that you easily could be like, here's your money, we're sorry, we
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: w these guys are expelled. y you know, I don't know. There's just no words, but I I'm really saddened for it. I have lots of friends that are that are in college right now, really young. It's just the age that ⁓ my friends and I are. We're sending our our kids Yeah. And it's just scary not not to mention, you know, the deaths at old Miss and the drugs.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Kids to school, yeah. Right, right.
Molly Rubesh: Last weekend and then, you know, you hear this kind of thing, it's like, how do we send our children out into the world? It's just unsafe unfortunately.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Well and I think the universities really need to look at a couple of things, right? Like they're charging an unbelievable amount for these children to go to school there. And they are kids. I mean they're adults, but they are growing into kids. And this should be, you know, college is a bridge between ⁓ childhood and adulthood. And these universities need to be held at a higher standard and they need to protect their students, you know, this kind of thing should never happen. Why this behavior can happen at a fraternity in a house that is, you know, on campus and supposed to have some sort of guidance and and ⁓ guardrails, right? Like that ⁓ is just unbelievable to me that that can happen.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Anna Goff: You know, it's one thing if this happened off campus in an apartment or a house or whatever, but this is like a an on campus, you know, fraternity house. And as far as I'm concerned, like they the university needs to be punished as well. And then the fact that they hid this and ⁓ it's just coming out because there's, you know, a civil lawsuit. that's ridiculous. And then to hear that you know the one student was in is in med school now thinking about trusting that that man as a doctor ⁓ for yourself, for your daughter, for anybody that you love, ⁓ anyone who could do that and ⁓ behave that way and then is in a position of trust and ⁓ and power.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: Again, you know, those people are everywhere. And that is why we as moms and dads, but ⁓ feel the need to protect our children in every environment, in every situation, why we want to be in the room of the doctor's office, why we want to ⁓ why we don't want our kids to be alone with anyone, why we don't allow sleepovers, why we don't, you know, because these people unfortunately are roaming around everywhere within us. within our communities and not all of them are on the sex offender registry, you know? They're living amongst us and they are in positions of power and they are, you know, bosses and teachers and counselors and all of these things. And so ⁓ it's not a matter of not trusting the people that you know are in our communities, but it is a matter of like if you do this, you're you're held to a high standard in our society and if you behave this way, you're going to be punished and people are gonna know who you are and you're gonna have to prove that you're not that person anymore, ⁓ instead of having the benefit of the doubt because it's too dangerous, it's too risky, you know?
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and unfortunately some of the women that we work with are married to men like this, you know, and just because you're in a marriage doesn't mean that your body is your husband's property. And I mean there's even been abuse inside of marriages and it's it's just sad. You know, and I and I do honor, you know, the statement of it's not all men, because I do agree with that statement.
Anna Goff: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I have a very loving husband. but unfortunately that doesn't make me feel better that when I'm trying to get into my car in a parking garage by myself, I'm not like, well, not all men, one man could attack me or my daughter, or out of fifty men in in that Snapchat group, not one called the authorities.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Hm. Right. Right. Well and if yeah.
Molly Rubesh: The seven hurt her, but the other forty three, or however many it exactly was, remained silent. And that's really, really sad.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I think even the the bigger issue is that nobody said, ⁓ my gosh. No one thought this woman is not a piece of meat. She is a woman and we need to protect this woman, you know? It's like what if someone was being murdered? Yeah, stop it. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, why didn't three of ⁓ go in that room and go, get outta here? Like, let's protect her. Like what are you doing, you freak? Like
Anna Goff: Right. And yeah. And hearing like it's not all men, but it's always men. Like and and it's not always. There are crazy women out there. There are women who, you know, murder people. I mean, we could go into stories that are also in the news about that. But but if you're talking in generalizations it usually is and I think it's just scary.
Molly Rubesh: Right. Right. Well, who who's in what gender's in your your DMs and your comments calling you the C word and the B word and shut the F up and men or women? What? Always.
Anna Goff: ⁓ yeah, always. Mm-hmm mm hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Always men. Always. Always. Mm-hmm.
Molly Rubesh: Always men. And y you know, just gross comments. You just wanna whore yourself out, you wanna be with a hundred men. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what we want to wanna do that's what we wanna do.
Anna Goff: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's exactly why I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I mean, Molly, I've been told when I was a personal trainer, my boss, I was like twenty one, twenty two, my boss said you should use your assets to ⁓ get clients. When I was in high school, I had a teacher tell me that as long as he could look at my boobs that I would get an A in algebra. I you know, I had a boss who said that I would get a promotion if I slept with him. I mean I I could go on and on and on stories I I mean
Molly Rubesh: ⁓ lovely. Yeah. I was a pharmaceutical rep and ⁓ one of the doctors reached over and like undid my suit coat and like pulled it back so he could see like the came camisole that I had underneath my I was like but I did. I went to his office the next day and I was like, that was wildly inappropriate and I will not accept it. I mean it it's like I mortified him. ⁓ but I was so young and I'm surprised I advocated for myself, but it's not okay. It's so
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not. Mm-hmm.
Molly Rubesh: Gross and But even that is inappropriate and so terrible.
Anna Goff: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: And then those those they get away with that and then they get away with the next and they get away with a little bit more and then they're going to the fraternity house and you know, it's just like or they see their father speak about women that way or I don't know where it comes from. I don't know where it our the our president, you know, they allow our it's just filtered down into our entire community and so it's super sad.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's
Molly Rubesh: And I'm really, really, really worried for I mean, and this has been going on for as long as man forever. This isn't new. ⁓ and so thank God for the world of social media because how many victims happened fifty years ago, a hundred years ago that never ever ever got the justice. So hopefully for this Jane Doe, she does get her justice and ⁓ is able to heal
Anna Goff: Yeah. Forever, forever. Yeah. Right. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: And that these men have major reform and make ma major life changes and there's better impact for other men, boys across the world and it there's a ripple effect, but I don't know, I'm just a little bit I'm I'm really disappointed in in mankind and society.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well and there's a way, you know, a lot of men now will say, well I don't even know how to flirt. I don't know how to you know, like w when am I gonna be deemed inappropriate and and there's a d a definite difference, right? There's There's a difference between flirting and being ⁓ interested in someone and maybe being the first one to make a move, right? To kiss or to put your hand around them or touch your partner, you know, the person you're interested in. ⁓ but I think no is a complete sentence, and that's what we need to be teaching our boys. And if they're ever in a situation where they're with a woman who can't make a decision who isn't capable because of whatever reason she's sleeping, she's drunk, she's she took drugs, whatever it is, it's never okay to make that decision for her. And so constantly ⁓ getting feedback from your partner and no matter if you're married or dating or anything, when someone says no that is a complete sentence and you need to stop. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Well, ⁓ I I definitely appreciate this topic. I think it's something that we needed to address and at least ⁓ kind of get off our chest and process. Hopefully ⁓ you guys, our listeners are hearing it and feel ⁓ I I know I don't even have to hear your input to know that this is exactly how you feel and you all have had that feeling of walking down an alley or jumping in your car, carrying your keys between your fingers. So
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: As women, let's ⁓ continue to protect ourselves, ⁓ educate our our boys and the men in our lives, and hopefully together we can get through this.
Anna Goff: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us on the Align podcast. If you liked this episode, please share, ⁓ comment. We'd love to hear your feedback on this topic, and we will see you next time. Have a good day.
Molly Rubesh: All right.
Molly Rubesh: I mean, first that poor Jane Doe and her what she underwent and how she will be impacted by that traumatic event for the rest of her life. And now she also has to be drugged through the courts and you know, I know she's anonymous, but she knows. So her body and her nervous system and the trauma and the injustice and the violation. So my heart aches for her as a woman. and I and so I I think we talk so much about this on a grander scale. I don't want to lose sight of her because she's the one that actually was the victim. And she will never ever ever be the same. That young girl, that 20 year old went to a fraternity party like we all have done and ended up having
Anna Goff: Right. Yeah. ⁓
Molly Rubesh: A a life-altering event. So my heart ultimately aches for her. And then we pivot to this whole collective.
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I as a mother of three boys, I'm just petrified and ashamed and mortified that men are capable, young men are capable of doing this and then and the other people in the Snapchat that, you know, don't feel like they can advocate and say, Hey, whoa, what what are you doing? ⁓ and then as a mother of a young daughter, ⁓ that will be going to college in two years, it's terrifying.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. And in so many ways that Jane Doe is so many of us. I would say every myself included, every woman that I know has been through some sort of something similar to this, whether it's to this extent, hopefully not, but whether it's being at a party, ⁓ maybe ⁓ drinking too much, being told
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: ⁓ that you shouldn't wear something worrying, you know, we've all as women worried when you get into an elevator, you size up who you're walking in to the elevator with if there's someone else in the elevator. ⁓ you know, you make choices about whether you're gonna take the stairs, whether you're gonna go, you know, take a shortcut, go through an alley, walk to your car, you have your keys in between your fingers, ⁓ you know, you look under your car, you look in your back seat. you ⁓ walk with a friend, you don't get into an Uber by yourself. I mean, I have so many stories from, you know, my teens, twenties, thirties, ⁓ where there are little things that have happened that really do impact the rest of your life. And thankfully nothing to this extent happened to me. But you know, to blame this woman, this young woman, for taking drugs or drinking, or we don't I mean, I don't know the whole story, right? But even if she did take drugs, even if she did get drunk, even if all of these things, that does not mean that she should be raped, that she should be victimized. And I think that is the message that we need to be teaching our boys, because I too have a boy, ⁓
Molly Rubesh: No.
Anna Goff: And we need to be teaching our boys it doesn't you need to advocate for the woman. You need to stand up against these predators that think that it's okay to use a woman's body as their sex toy or their property. ⁓ and because she's had too much to drink, she now can become violated and that's just totally fine. ⁓ and not only do we need to teach our boys to not ever treat a woman like this, but we also need to teach them to advocate against it and to speak up, to call the police, to stop their friends. and not just, you know, this is this is against women, this is a sexual, you know, act that ⁓ is horrific. But there are so many other things that I think boys and men don't speak up about. ⁓ when it comes to situations that happen in fraternities, whether it's hazing or drinking or ⁓ drugs or things that we hear over and over and over again and it's really the scary part about being a boy mom I think when when you hear these stories.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. Yeah, there's there's so it it's incredibly fearful or you know, fear-provoking to to have these conversations with your sons and then know that when they're get in an environment like a fraternity and being silent is actually not as bad, of course, as going into the room, but you're you have to be the brave one. And we are taught so early and these kids are, you know, the snitches get stitches type mentality, and they don't want to be the one to use their voice. They're not confident enough. Maybe they're a younger lower classman versus an upperclassman. Maybe they are afraid that they will then be in trouble for something. ⁓ and so people turn a blind eye when they know. But we even have a bigger issue because and not to get political, but when you look at people of power
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm.
Molly Rubesh: You look a people in in big roles, the the the Weinstein, the Jeffrey Epstein, our president, there are so many men that have taken advantage of women and all varying levels, but then they're in these positions of power. So when I'm in my kitchen and I am advocating to these boys, my three sons, about the a the importance of fighting
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: On behalf of a wim woman and loving her and supporting her, whether you know her or not, and protecting this woman, we have role models and people of bigger power and leadership that don't do the same. So it's a it's a mixed signal. We need men, we need our husbands and the fathers of our children to be looking at their men. and their children in their face and saying, you don't ever attack a woman. You don't ever, you know, you it is your job. It has to be coming from men. So, and of course us as mothers, but this is an uphill battle. We've got to make sure that the the men that are mentoring our men are advocating for women the way that and that's how you have change.
Anna Goff: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, as you were talking, ⁓ there's a lot that's gone on over the past, I don't know, ten, fifteen years, where the whole the Me Too movement and then the ⁓ w women are equal movement, ⁓ has in some ways I think made men feel like they can't advocate in the same way, or maybe that like when women are saying I'm equal, ⁓ then somehow there's a message that they don't need to be protected. and I think what the the conversation shouldn't be that women aren't equal when it comes to everything, right? Like we can do the same job as men and all of that. But we are not equal in strength. We are not equal in being able to stand up for ourselves physically in so many ways and and so understanding that, you know, as a man, you are scarier. I mean, we've done a podcast before where, you know, with Alex who we talked about like just the power of a man and knowing that he can overpower you, that he can control you, take you down.
Molly Rubesh: Right. Right.
Anna Goff: assault you, whatever. Like a woman can't do that to a man. Like I can't sexually assault a man. Right? Like it doesn't work like that. And I can't hold a man down and have my way with him. I can't I'm not going to attack a man in a dark alley, right? And so it isn't the same.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: We aren't on the same playing field when it comes to that. And oftentimes men are the ones in positions of power. Men are the pastors. Men are the CEOs. And this isn't all men, obviously, like women can have these positions as well. But ⁓ they are the ones controlling so many situations and putting these women in these positions where ⁓ they feel like they either have to go along with it or they won't be able to sit in the same room.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. I saw ⁓ a reel this morning that was somebody interviewing a lot of women and sh the interviewer said to people on the street, If you what would you do tonight if you could go anywhere and feel safe? What would you don't do if you knew safety you had you had ultimate safety? And they're like, I would Roam the streets and look at the stars. I would read on a park bench. I would just walk around. I would and every single woman answered. I would walk to my car. I would sit on a bench. I would, you know, look at the stars outside. I would meet a friend for a drink and walk home by myself. And when sh they asked men, they were like, I would go skydiving. I would do, you know, more like thrill seeking type stuff. I would race a motorcycle. And so they're not fearful, men are not fearful of their safety amongst the human population. Women are fearful of their safety on the streets. And so women aren't asking for a bubble to make sure that we could skydive and not be injured. We're asking for a bubble that we don't get attacked in a park.
Anna Goff: And
Molly Rubesh: On a park bench by ourselves. And that feeling, like when you said, you know, we we get in the car and we like look in the backseat, and that adrenaline rush that we all feel, that we all know, and you know, we lock the doors really fast and I start the car really fast and I'm putting it in drive really fast because I'm not I don't trust that somebody's not gonna come up next to me. Now is that paranoid? I don't know, but probably not.
Anna Goff: Right. Right. ⁓ huh. Probably not. Probably not.
Molly Rubesh: You know, it probably not. And I I make choices based on, you know, where I want to go for dinner or meet a friend or whatever, based on the parking situation and how safe I am. You know, my daughter does the same thing about like, well, you know, where I I don't feel safe there. And men just don't have that same that same feeling. They don't have to deal with that.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Right, right. Even walking down the street during the day, if you're alone and you're, you know, about to approach someone, you're looking at them, you're sizing them up, you're deciding like does this p person feel scary or not? And that is in every single thing and that's something that we just innately do as women. We learn how to do that. And I too I mean obviously there are tons of reels going around about this right now, but
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: I saw one this morning that was like instead of teaching women how to protect themselves, why don't we teach men how to not attack women? How to not, you know, sexually assault women. And that really needs to be the story. We need to protect our women. These are the mothers, the sisters, the daughters, the cousins, the aunts, the you know, these are these like these boys.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: family, right? Like it it could be their best friend's sister that they did this to, the ki the little girl that they grew up with. And if we don't teach them as little boys to respect and honor women and say, you know, these women have the same value as me. They need to be protected. They need to be revered. They need to be cared for because they are weaker. They don't have, you know, massive amounts of testosterone running through their bodies and, you know, wanna fight and have sex and be, you know, whatever. And it we we don't stand a chance against a man, if you know, and that's the bottom line. And I mean, I'm pretty strong, you're pretty strong, we both lift weights, we do all of those things, but if a man wanted to overpower either one of us, even a smaller, weaker man, they could. And And so I think that we need to teach our boys to use their masculinity for good to protect women and protect other men. But and I mean that in a way of like standing up for somebody, but also say this isn't right when they are witnessing things that are that are absolutely horrific, like what happened to this poor woman.
Molly Rubesh: Mm. Yeah, I mean again ⁓ the I saw another reel. I mean they're just they're just so on point right now and it said if you were in a camp if you were camping, are you more afraid of a strange man walking outside of your camp or a bear?
Anna Goff: ⁓ yeah. A man, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: Than a bear that could maul you. And if the man wanted to, could protect you. But if the man wanted to, he also could, you know, hurt you. And it's just, it's just really sad. And so I think that this Jane Doe is ex incredibly brave for continuing to push this forward. Incredibly brave for advocating for herself. But these are the types of things that do.
Anna Goff: Right.
Molly Rubesh: Cause people to stop to recognize it. Hopefully, men, teenage boys, hopefully guys in fraternities are seeing this and going, I don't ever want to have my face plastered on every single social media platform. One right after the other, they're losing their jobs. Hopefully, that one kid gets kicked out of med school. You know, so we're making examples of them. One four.
Anna Goff: Uh-huh.
Molly Rubesh: Jane Doe and for her to get her I you know, to feel supported and loved and for these kids to have consequences, but also for complete reform and the embarrassing disgrace of the leadership of the Cornell University to not have advocated for her. Even I you know, and and of course some of this could be rumor, but that they she asked to withdraw, they didn't give her her money back. I mean, it's just like nonsensical stuff that you easily could be like, here's your money, we're sorry, we
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: w these guys are expelled. y you know, I don't know. There's just no words, but I I'm really saddened for it. I have lots of friends that are that are in college right now, really young. It's just the age that ⁓ my friends and I are. We're sending our our kids Yeah. And it's just scary not not to mention, you know, the deaths at old Miss and the drugs.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Kids to school, yeah. Right, right.
Molly Rubesh: Last weekend and then, you know, you hear this kind of thing, it's like, how do we send our children out into the world? It's just unsafe unfortunately.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Well and I think the universities really need to look at a couple of things, right? Like they're charging an unbelievable amount for these children to go to school there. And they are kids. I mean they're adults, but they are growing into kids. And this should be, you know, college is a bridge between ⁓ childhood and adulthood. And these universities need to be held at a higher standard and they need to protect their students, you know, this kind of thing should never happen. Why this behavior can happen at a fraternity in a house that is, you know, on campus and supposed to have some sort of guidance and and ⁓ guardrails, right? Like that ⁓ is just unbelievable to me that that can happen.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Anna Goff: You know, it's one thing if this happened off campus in an apartment or a house or whatever, but this is like a an on campus, you know, fraternity house. And as far as I'm concerned, like they the university needs to be punished as well. And then the fact that they hid this and ⁓ it's just coming out because there's, you know, a civil lawsuit. that's ridiculous. And then to hear that you know the one student was in is in med school now thinking about trusting that that man as a doctor ⁓ for yourself, for your daughter, for anybody that you love, ⁓ anyone who could do that and ⁓ behave that way and then is in a position of trust and ⁓ and power.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: Again, you know, those people are everywhere. And that is why we as moms and dads, but ⁓ feel the need to protect our children in every environment, in every situation, why we want to be in the room of the doctor's office, why we want to ⁓ why we don't want our kids to be alone with anyone, why we don't allow sleepovers, why we don't, you know, because these people unfortunately are roaming around everywhere within us. within our communities and not all of them are on the sex offender registry, you know? They're living amongst us and they are in positions of power and they are, you know, bosses and teachers and counselors and all of these things. And so ⁓ it's not a matter of not trusting the people that you know are in our communities, but it is a matter of like if you do this, you're you're held to a high standard in our society and if you behave this way, you're going to be punished and people are gonna know who you are and you're gonna have to prove that you're not that person anymore, ⁓ instead of having the benefit of the doubt because it's too dangerous, it's too risky, you know?
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and unfortunately some of the women that we work with are married to men like this, you know, and just because you're in a marriage doesn't mean that your body is your husband's property. And I mean there's even been abuse inside of marriages and it's it's just sad. You know, and I and I do honor, you know, the statement of it's not all men, because I do agree with that statement.
Anna Goff: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I have a very loving husband. but unfortunately that doesn't make me feel better that when I'm trying to get into my car in a parking garage by myself, I'm not like, well, not all men, one man could attack me or my daughter, or out of fifty men in in that Snapchat group, not one called the authorities.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Hm. Right. Right. Well and if yeah.
Molly Rubesh: The seven hurt her, but the other forty three, or however many it exactly was, remained silent. And that's really, really sad.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's I think even the the bigger issue is that nobody said, ⁓ my gosh. No one thought this woman is not a piece of meat. She is a woman and we need to protect this woman, you know? It's like what if someone was being murdered? Yeah, stop it. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, why didn't three of ⁓ go in that room and go, get outta here? Like, let's protect her. Like what are you doing, you freak? Like
Anna Goff: Right. And yeah. And hearing like it's not all men, but it's always men. Like and and it's not always. There are crazy women out there. There are women who, you know, murder people. I mean, we could go into stories that are also in the news about that. But but if you're talking in generalizations it usually is and I think it's just scary.
Molly Rubesh: Right. Right. Well, who who's in what gender's in your your DMs and your comments calling you the C word and the B word and shut the F up and men or women? What? Always.
Anna Goff: ⁓ yeah, always. Mm-hmm mm hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Always men. Always. Always. Mm-hmm.
Molly Rubesh: Always men. And y you know, just gross comments. You just wanna whore yourself out, you wanna be with a hundred men. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah. That's what we want to wanna do that's what we wanna do.
Anna Goff: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's exactly why I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I mean, Molly, I've been told when I was a personal trainer, my boss, I was like twenty one, twenty two, my boss said you should use your assets to ⁓ get clients. When I was in high school, I had a teacher tell me that as long as he could look at my boobs that I would get an A in algebra. I you know, I had a boss who said that I would get a promotion if I slept with him. I mean I I could go on and on and on stories I I mean
Molly Rubesh: ⁓ lovely. Yeah. I was a pharmaceutical rep and ⁓ one of the doctors reached over and like undid my suit coat and like pulled it back so he could see like the came camisole that I had underneath my I was like but I did. I went to his office the next day and I was like, that was wildly inappropriate and I will not accept it. I mean it it's like I mortified him. ⁓ but I was so young and I'm surprised I advocated for myself, but it's not okay. It's so
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not. Mm-hmm.
Molly Rubesh: Gross and But even that is inappropriate and so terrible.
Anna Goff: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: And then those those they get away with that and then they get away with the next and they get away with a little bit more and then they're going to the fraternity house and you know, it's just like or they see their father speak about women that way or I don't know where it comes from. I don't know where it our the our president, you know, they allow our it's just filtered down into our entire community and so it's super sad.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's
Molly Rubesh: And I'm really, really, really worried for I mean, and this has been going on for as long as man forever. This isn't new. ⁓ and so thank God for the world of social media because how many victims happened fifty years ago, a hundred years ago that never ever ever got the justice. So hopefully for this Jane Doe, she does get her justice and ⁓ is able to heal
Anna Goff: Yeah. Forever, forever. Yeah. Right. ⁓ yeah. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: And that these men have major reform and make ma major life changes and there's better impact for other men, boys across the world and it there's a ripple effect, but I don't know, I'm just a little bit I'm I'm really disappointed in in mankind and society.
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well and there's a way, you know, a lot of men now will say, well I don't even know how to flirt. I don't know how to you know, like w when am I gonna be deemed inappropriate and and there's a d a definite difference, right? There's There's a difference between flirting and being ⁓ interested in someone and maybe being the first one to make a move, right? To kiss or to put your hand around them or touch your partner, you know, the person you're interested in. ⁓ but I think no is a complete sentence, and that's what we need to be teaching our boys. And if they're ever in a situation where they're with a woman who can't make a decision who isn't capable because of whatever reason she's sleeping, she's drunk, she's she took drugs, whatever it is, it's never okay to make that decision for her. And so constantly ⁓ getting feedback from your partner and no matter if you're married or dating or anything, when someone says no that is a complete sentence and you need to stop. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Well, ⁓ I I definitely appreciate this topic. I think it's something that we needed to address and at least ⁓ kind of get off our chest and process. Hopefully ⁓ you guys, our listeners are hearing it and feel ⁓ I I know I don't even have to hear your input to know that this is exactly how you feel and you all have had that feeling of walking down an alley or jumping in your car, carrying your keys between your fingers. So
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: As women, let's ⁓ continue to protect ourselves, ⁓ educate our our boys and the men in our lives, and hopefully together we can get through this.
Anna Goff: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us on the Align podcast. If you liked this episode, please share, ⁓ comment. We'd love to hear your feedback on this topic, and we will see you next time. Have a good day.
Molly Rubesh: All right.
