Pascagoula Alien Abduction: The Secret Police Tape That Still Raises Questions

WEBVTT
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Aliens.
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Yes.
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But maybe no.
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Welcome back to the show, aliens.
00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:23.920
Yes, but maybe no with Josh and Travis.
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I'm Travis.
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I'm Josh.
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And this is an otherworldly podcast as ambiguous as her title.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Every time, yes.
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Favorite day of the week.
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It is.
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So I started playing DD.
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Huh?
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You what?
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Yeah.
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You play DD?
00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:41.920
Yeah.
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Do you, Josh Snodgrass?
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Yep.
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Are you addicted?
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I don't know yet.
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I feel something.
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Yeah.
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That's my biggest fear is I would get addicted.
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It's fantasy and theater.
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Like two things that are big in our house.
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I just can't.
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I'm gonna become obsessed.
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I know myself too well.
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That's just how it goes with me.
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Yeah, it's fun.
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I haven't showered since I started playing.
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You look great though for not having showered.
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Oh well, thank you.
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It's that oily dew.
00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:10.400
Yep.
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Just the grease holding you together.
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Yep.
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Just barely.
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I hope I don't get to the point where it is me next to a dumpster like your friend.
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I d that would honestly, it would be more sad that you had two friends that ended up that way than me just alone being by a dumpster.
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Yeah, next to a dumpster.
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Almost died.
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Do I feel sad about it?
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Yes.
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Desperately sad, Josh.
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The common denominator is you in that situation.
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Yeah, I'm an introducer.
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I'm a pusher.
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You're the one who's like, hey, have you ever played by a dumpster?
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Yep.
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I'm the guy that's riding around your town with uh bumper stickers that says D D.
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Try it by a dumpster.
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I was trying to remember, once again, what we talked about last episode.
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Yeah, who who cares?
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Oh, I remember it's the Fermi, Fermi, Fermi paradox.
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I I did not like the Fermi paradox.
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It was, I mean, I like I like having the knowledge.
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Yeah.
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You know, I feel like I can talk about that with people now.
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I feel like that would be a huge mood killer.
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You think so?
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Yeah.
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The Dark Force theory is terrifying.
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I don't I don't like that at all.
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So at the end of that episode, we took a quiz like we do every episode about our next episode topic.
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And it was the Pascagoula alien abduction.
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I wasn't I wasn't prepared.
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I knew nothing.
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Um, I didn't know anything about it either, but the name, I was like, this has to be in Mississippi.
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No, you said Florida.
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Oh, did I?
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Oh, yeah.
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Okay.
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What's the difference?
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I can go back and edit that episode so it makes it sound like you said Mississippi.
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Do you want a couple takes?
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Yeah.
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Mississippi.
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Mississippi?
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Mississippi.
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Got it.
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Okay, good.
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So today we're heading to the Gulf Coast of Mississippi, to a quiet shipyard town called Pascagoula, for a case that a lot of researchers consider one of the most well-documented abduction stories on record.
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On the night of October 11th, 1973, two shipyard workers went fishing on the Pascagoula River, like they'd done plenty of times before.
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By the end of the night, they were telling a sheriff's deputy that they'd been lifted into a hovering craft by three strange gray, robotic-looking creatures.
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I can't wait to talk about this.
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What makes this case stand apart from a lot of the other abduction stories we've covered is the sheer amount of documentation around it.
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So we got a secret recording made by law enforcement, a polygraph test, hypnosis session with a well-known researcher, and a medical exam that turned up physical marks on both men.
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So today we're going to walk through what happened at the old Schumpeter shipyard, look at how investigation unfolded in the hours and days after, hear from the scientists and skeptics who each took their own run at explaining it, and follow what happened to Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker for the rest of their lives.
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For the rest of their lives.
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Wow.
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Yep.
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That's a long time.
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Yeah.
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We're going to look at everything.
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Who they married.
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What junk mail they threw away and what they kept.
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We're going to cover it all.
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Yep.
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So uh everybody get some coffee.
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Buckle in.
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Get comfy.
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Yep.
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You can't get comfy in a buckle, can you?
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Well, I don't want you to get too comfy.
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I don't want you to fall asleep.
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That's true.
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Get comfy and then buckle yourself in.
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Yeah.
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So let's dive into that night at Shumpeter Shipyard.
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The encounter took place at approximately 9 p.m.
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on October the 11th, 1973, at the abandoned Schempeter Shipyard on the west bank of the Pascagoula River in Mississippi.
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The two men present were Charles Hickson, age 42, a shipyard foreman, and his co-worker, Calvin Parker, who was around 19.
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Both men worked at FB Walker and Son's shipyard, and their relationship went beyond the job, which is like a wildly put-together sentence.
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That implies that maybe there was a little bit of romance.
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Yeah.
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But Parker was close friends with Hicks's son and lived with the Hickson family during the work week.
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Hickson had also saved Parker's life years earlier when Parker fell into the Pearl River, which gave the two men a long-standing bond well before that night.
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That's kind of sweet.
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Yeah.
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Saved his life.
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But he he was the one that pushed him in.
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Oh yeah.
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So the men were fishing when they heard a hissing or zipping sound, which Hickson later compared to steam escaping from a pipe.
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Yeah.
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Behind them, an oval football-shaped craft appeared, hovering somewhere between 18 inches and a few feet off the ground.
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Jeez.
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Yeah, I mean, it's just like you turn around and it's well, they say the estimates put the craft at roughly to 30 to 40 feet long and eight to ten feet high.
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So it's not like huge.
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But big.
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But it's big enough, and if it's on the ground, now you're confronted with it.
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It's just like barely hovering above the ground.
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It's not something in the sky.
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Yeah, no tractor beam.
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It's just right there.
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Right there.
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Right in your face.
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Yeah.
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So two blue lights on the front that pulsed or appeared to revolve.
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A door on the craft slid open and a wave of brilliant light spilled out.
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Three entities emerged from that light and moved toward the men.
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Witnesses, I'm assuming they mean Hickson and Parker.
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Yeah.
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So they described the entities as roughly five feet to five foot four in height, gray wrinkled skin, often compared to elephant hide.
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Their heads were described as bullet-shaped with no visible neck, and their faces showed slit-like mouths and small pointed protrusions resembling carrots, where a nose and ears might be expected.
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Oh my gosh.
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Their eyes were never clearly identified by either witness.
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Their arms were long, ending in claws, described as mitten-shaped, crab-like, or lobster-like, and their legs appeared fused or welded together, giving them a mechanical gliding motion across the ground rather than a normal walking gait.
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So this is like very much kind of like a less sexy version of the Flatwoods monster.
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Because the Flatwoods monster was described as not having legs.
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This seems like something a troubled youth would draw.
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It's so funny.
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Just like picture like carrots hanging out of ears, and it's just like draw that and tell me that that isn't really funny.
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And then you it's like a bullet-shaped head.
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So like an arc at the top, and then just straight down.
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Yeah, I don't dislike it.
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I guess if it was in front of me, I would very much dislike it.
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The crab like hands are pretty funny.
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So two of the entities took hold of Hickson, and the third took Parker, who fainted from fear almost immediately.
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I just that to me is the funniest part of this, is that he just went and collapsed.
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I mean, it it could break your reality.
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Yeah.
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I I could understand fainting.
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I could too.
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It's just I just But it is funny.
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Yeah.
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Hickson recalled feeling a sharp prick in his arm right before his body, locked into total paralysis.
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The men were then levitated into the craft and brought into a round chamber that seemed to glow from every surface, floor, walls, and ceiling included.
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So inside, Hickson was suspended in the air, able to move only his eyes.
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But in the documentary, he said he couldn't close them, which is Oh, that's even worse.
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That's really scary.
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They wanted him to see.
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That's what makes reading a scary book so scary.
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If you're watching a movie, you can always close your eyes.
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But reading a scary book, you can't.
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Do you close your eyes at scary parts in movies?
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Yes.
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Don't you?
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Do you really?
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No.
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Sometimes I don't close them all the way, I squint because that's for some reason feels safer.
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But I love scary movies.
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I like that feeling of being scared.
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I stand up and start half tiptoeing, half jumping.
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Yeah, you become action, Josh.
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Yeah.
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You just get so scared, you're just like, I can't.
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That's how they get you, though, is they get you sitting down.
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That's true.
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Or they get you with your eyes open.
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That's why I just squint.
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That's cute that you close your eyes.
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There's spooky things in the world.
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And you don't want to see them.
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So a mechanical device he described as a large eye or big pupil emerged from the wall and passed over his body from head to foot, performing what felt like a full physical scan.
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So just imagine that.
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A big eye.
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Ugh.
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Like if you were at the dentist, you know those lights they put over the top of you.
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Yeah.
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Imagine that, but an eyeball.
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Nope.
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Nope.
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Yeah, that's uh very unpleasant.
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Parker's memory of the interior was far less complete since he'd already lost consciousness from terror.
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He later recalled particular underhomnosis being examined by a female presenting entity and having his clothing removed.
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Nice.
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Yeah, nice.
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Nice work if you can get it.
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I mean, I'm not saying I don't know what I'm not saying.
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You're not implying anything happened.
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Yeah, I just uh Yeah, okay.
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I missed touch.
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Aww.
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But he was so scared he probably passed out again.
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Uh yeah, he just woke up.
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Yep, he just yep, fainted, probably ejaculated all over himself, too.
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Uh so after a stretch of time, the witnesses estimated at anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour, the men were returned to the exact spot on the riverbank where they'd been fishing.
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Hickson found Parker standing near the pier in a state of shock, arms outstretched as the craft made its hissing sound again and disappeared into the night sky.
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One additional detail worth mentioning on the opposite bank of the river that same night, a couple named Maria and Jerry Blair reported seeing a similar football-shaped craft, which gives the case a second independent set of eyes on the same event.
00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:37.600
Whoa.
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:38.799
That's wild.
00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:40.559
Like it didn't take very long.
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I mean, it's not like the Travis Walton story where he was gone for days, right?
00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:46.000
Yeah.
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This is just like, up, we're gonna take a look at you real quick, poke around a little, make sure you're uh whatever you say you are, and then drop you right back down.
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I would imagine logistically, I mean, if I were an alien, I would want it to not take very long so that time lost was shorter so that you didn't know anything happened.
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:07.679
Yeah.
00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.279
They should have just put them totally out then, not let them keep their eyes open.
00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:12.879
Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking.
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:14.480
Definitely going against code.
00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:15.759
Yeah, I think so.
00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:16.320
Yeah.
00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:17.519
They made a mistake.
00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:18.000
Yep.
00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:19.360
They messed up big.
00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:22.080
I'm pretty sure that's probably how most of these abductions are.
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.000
That's why we know is just mess ups.
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:26.639
Yeah, they stopped using the Trank 720.
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:27.759
I'm not familiar with that.
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.799
When they know that they should have been using the 840.
00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:32.799
Oh, is that is those are tranks?
00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:33.360
Yeah.
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Why do you know No?
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:37.120
This is all information from you.
00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:40.960
Okay.
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So the first 24 hours.
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The men made it back to the riverbank, and the story doesn't end there.
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It's actually just getting started.
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What they did in those hours right after the encounter is a huge part of why this case gets taken seriously.
00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:01.519
Hickson and Parker hesitated at first, worried about the ridicule that would come from telling anyone about what happened.
00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:05.519
Oh, yeah, because the McFarland came back just covered in his own ejaculate.
00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:06.080
No.
00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:15.759
Hickson, however, was thinking about the craft as a potential national security concern, given his instinct as a Korean War veteran, and that pushed him towards reporting it.
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.120
Their first call went to the Keisler Air Force Base.
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The staff there showed little interest in investigating and directed the men to the local law enforcement instead.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:32.399
So before heading to the sheriff's department, the men stopped at the Mississippi Press newsroom hoping to get some kind of record of the event on file.
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The door was locked.
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Because they were so freaked out, they started pounding on the glass door and screaming.
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Inside the newsroom were housekeepers Catherine and Dorothy Smith, who notes that Hickson appeared calm while Parker was visibly shaken.
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:49.120
They did ignore them, though, for their safety, because that would be freaky.
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:54.159
You're just cleaning an office and then crazy guys are pounding at night on the window.
00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:57.200
So they just ignored them and they didn't approach the glass, but they did see them.
00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:02.320
From there, the men went to the Jackson County Sheriff's Office and met with Sheriff Fred Diamond.
00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:03.679
Totally real name.
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.120
No, that's a cool name.
00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:06.000
It's cool.
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:07.039
Totally real.
00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:08.720
You think you think it's fake?
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:09.679
I don't know.
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:14.320
I just it doesn't sound that's too cool of a name.
00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:15.120
That's true.
00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:16.080
It's too cool.
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:17.039
It's you're right.
00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.080
There is a level that is Sheriff Fred Diamond.
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:24.879
So Diamond suspected the two might be drunk or running a prank.
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:29.519
So he had Captain Ryder, another cool name, yeah, question them separately.
00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:32.000
Afterward, Diamond and Ryder left them alone.
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:33.360
Cool duo.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:34.080
I know.
00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:35.440
They should make a movie.
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:37.039
They should make a cop movie.
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:38.639
They should make a cop movie.
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:40.159
Has that ever been done before?
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:41.200
No, it hasn't.
00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:42.559
Diamond and Ryder.
00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:54.159
So Diamond Ryder left the men alone together in a room, and this is the part of the story that really elevated the case because they planted a hidden tape recorder in the room without the men's knowledge.
00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:55.120
Uh oh.
00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.679
The recording captured the two men while they believed no one was listening.
00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:05.919
Rather than breaking character or comparing notes on a hoax, the tape caught raw, unguarded distress.
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:12.559
Hickson can be heard praying, asking for mercy, and saying he thought he'd already been through enough hell on this earth.
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:20.480
Parker, meanwhile, is heard expressing fear that he might be having a heart attack and reportedly tried to climb the wall of the room.
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:22.080
That's wild.
00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:24.960
Yeah, it's that's a thing.
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:31.440
For a lot of investigators, this secret recording became the single strongest piece of evidence for the men's sincerity.
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:36.240
Because they were alone in a room, they could have just broken this lie.
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.679
Yeah, it could have been full of high fives, like, haha, we got them.
00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:40.159
Yeah.
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:42.000
We we tricked these cops.
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.279
But it didn't happen.
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:44.159
They were sincere.
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.000
What would you even get out of that though?
00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:47.200
Tricking the cops?
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:48.159
Attention?
00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:48.720
Yeah.
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:50.159
Like, what is there to gain?
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.000
Potentially fame and money.
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:52.639
Sure.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:57.120
So within a day, word of the encounter had spread well beyond Pascagoula.
00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.360
Hickson's son, Eddie, a U.S.
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:07.360
Marine stationed in Okinawa, first learned about his father's abduction by reading about it in the military newspaper Stars and Stripes.
00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:08.320
Heard of it?
00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:09.279
I no.
00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:10.559
I haven't either.
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:11.279
I don't know.
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.120
I'm asking you, have you heard of it, Josh?
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:14.320
Have you heard of Stars and Stripes?
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:15.360
I told you no.
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:16.000
Jeez.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.159
But it does give a sense of how quickly this traveled.
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.080
Like someone in Okinawa reading about it in the newspaper.
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:25.200
Don't you think that would be weird?
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:29.919
Like something happened to your dad, and you were on the other side of the earth?
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:31.679
Just not even in the same town.
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:32.080
Yeah.
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:34.639
You don't even have to be on the other side of the earth.
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:38.480
Just like, and you were reading a magazine, and then there it is.
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:41.600
Josh's dad doing a doing a thing.
00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.600
It would be weird seeing anyone I know in the newspaper.
00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.080
But I mean, this is like immediate family.
00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.399
That is that would be even more shocking.
00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:56.240
I would be like, why didn't you tell me about this, dad and supposed best friend?
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:57.440
That's true.
00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:59.360
Like you couldn't have dropped me a letter.
00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:00.480
Can have called?
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:01.919
That's a weird way to hear about it.
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:05.679
I don't know what the phone situation was, though, on an army base in the 70s.
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.080
It was in I mean, there was phone booths everywhere.
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.159
No, but this is like a publication.
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.480
Like this is weeks after this had happened.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:19.360
They they had to interview, and I and it's weird that it was even in Stars and Stripes, because it's not It's not about Stars and Stripes.
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:27.519
No, and it's not like the as far as I know, the military's not involved, but they they still printed the story anyway.
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:31.120
Yeah, Project Blue Book had ended a few years earlier.
00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:35.519
So them saying that they're not interested, we don't go over that stuff anymore.
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:36.080
Yeah.
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:37.120
That's the reason.
00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:38.720
So it is weird.
00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:46.720
So once the story got out, it stopped being a local curiosity and turned into a case that actual scientists and professional examiners wanted to test.
00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:47.200
Dr.
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:51.200
Julius Bosco conducted the initial medical examination on the two men.
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:57.360
His report, dated October 13th, concluded that the men were in a state of genuine shock rather than performing an act.
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.320
Bosco's exam also identified puncture marks.
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.919
So this is two days after this reported incident.
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:11.599
One on Hickson's forearm and one on Parker's foot, both matching the men's description of feeling a prick during the abduction.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:14.400
There's a little wordplay we could do there, but we won't.
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:15.279
We're professionals.
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:16.240
Not gonna do it.
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.200
We're grown-ups.
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:19.839
Josh already edited out all the laughing.
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:29.279
Separately, military personnel at Keysler Air Force Base ran a radiological screening, swabbing the men's shoes, clothing fibers, and fingernails to check for contamination.
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:37.759
The results came back negative, though the fact that the military ran such a detailed check at all suggests a higher level of concern than their public statements led on.
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.319
Hickson also underwent a polygraph examination administered by Charles Pennington.
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:46.559
Pennington reportedly viewed the whole situation as a joke going in.
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:47.440
Classic.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:48.000
Yeah.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:55.680
But after running the test multiple times, some accounts say as many as three to six times, in fact, he came away convinced of Hickson's sincerity.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:56.160
Wow.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:01.680
When state police offered Hickson a second independent polygraph test, later on, he declined it.
00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:04.160
A detail that skeptics tend to bring up often.
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.759
Polygraph tests, like we know a lot more about polygraph tests.
00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:09.440
They're not accurate.
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:10.160
Right.
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.400
You can false track yourself.
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:13.920
Yeah, false positive.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.839
Like they're not they're not that accurate.
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:17.759
Well, and also he just went through an ordeal.
00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:19.759
It's gonna be super heightened anyway.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:23.200
He just did potentially six polygraph tests.
00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:24.720
He's been talking with people.
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:26.880
He probably just didn't want another thing.
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.640
I don't think that was probably him saying, no, no, I don't want to get caught.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.119
It was just like I'm fucking exhausted.
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:33.759
Yeah.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.480
So on the hypnosis side, two prominent researchers got involved: Dr.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:43.839
James Harder, an engineering professor from the University of California, Berkeley, and Dr.
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:44.079
J.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:53.839
Alan Heinek, uh-oh, a astrophysicist from Northwestern University, who had previously served as a consultant for the Air Force and had a reputation as a skeptic going in.
00:18:54.000 --> 00:19:06.240
During hypnotic regression sessions, Harter observed both men sweating and shaking in ways he considered physiologically difficult to fake, and he described their experience using the term real and effrayante.
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:07.680
That sounds good to me.
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:08.319
Sure.
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:08.640
Okay.
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.759
Meaning real and frightening.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:16.000
I don't think I needed the qualifier there meaning real, because that's probably real means real.
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.160
Yeah, real means real and effrayante is frightening.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:33.279
In Pig Watten, uh Heinet, despite his skeptical starting point, came away describing the case as fitting a broader, globally documented pattern he called Close Encounters.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:40.720
Ooh, if you want to learn about that, then you can go to our Close Encounters episode for sure.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:42.720
Maybe a little Heinek in there.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:44.240
There's a little Hynek.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:45.680
It's a little Heinek everywhere.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.680
A big one, a grown, a grown one.
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:48.799
Normal sized.
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:49.519
Yep.
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:54.319
So now we're gonna talk a little bit about the skeptical side of the story.
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:55.599
Ooh, delightful.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:06.000
For as much physical and psychological evidence as this case built up, it's worth giving equal time to the researchers who took the exact same material and came away with a very different conclusion.
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:12.000
Journalist Philip Kloss and researcher Joe Nickel each offered alternative explanations.
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:25.119
Kloss focused heavily on the credibility of the polygraph process, pointing out that Pennington had limited experience as an examiner and highlighting Hickson's refusal of a second test with state police as a red flag.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:31.680
Nichols' theory centered on Hickson's background as a Korean War veteran who survived five major battles.
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:32.559
That's a lot.
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.039
Yeah.
00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:45.200
He proposed that Hicks's wartime trauma may have triggered something like a waking dream state, which the highly suggestible and much younger Parker than mirrored, creating a shared narrative between the two of them.
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:46.160
That's wild.
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:46.799
Hmm.
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:48.000
That is wild.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:49.279
Like dream sharing.
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:50.400
Dre yeah.
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.480
But waking dream, I don't know.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.079
Dream sharing is like a thing in the dark crystal.
00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:56.799
Is it?
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:57.599
Yeah.
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:05.359
Uh the two gelflings that that are left have a dream about the people that trained them.
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:10.079
The Air Force's official position throughout this period was one of formal distance.
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:24.960
By 1973, Project Blue Book, the Air Force's long-running UFO investigation unit, had already closed, having wrapped up in 1969 with the general conclusion that most historical sightings were misinterpretations or hoaxes.
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:31.440
The Air Force's public stance was that it was no longer in the business of investigating claims like this one.
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:36.640
That stated, hands-off position sits in attention with a couple of details on the record.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:50.559
Kiesler Air Force Base, despite its public interest, conducted a detailed witness briefing that produced a 17 page stenographer's transcript, which suggests a level of internal attention that didn't match what they were telling the public.
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:57.440
On the local level, Sheriff Fred Diamond, he himself actually reported his own UFO sighting.
00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.440
Wait a second.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.640
Yeah, just two nights after interviewing Hickson and Parker.
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:09.200
So adding a weird layer to this whole role.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:22.160
And in a smaller, almost comedic footnote, the Ocean Springs City Council responded to the local UFO flap by passing a resolution making UFO landings illegal within city limits.
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:23.759
What's a UFO flap?
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.519
We looked that up one time.
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:29.119
It's uh something really popular in in the news.
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.720
Like everyone's talking about it.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:31.359
Okay.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:32.640
Hold on.
00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:34.240
I'm just a hint.
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:34.559
Okay.
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:36.960
I'm I'm looking up Flap.
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:38.319
We've done this already.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.480
So informal Oh, I don't remember.
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.839
A state of worry, panic, or excitement.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:45.200
Could mean that.
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:47.759
Look up alien flap or UFO flap.
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:49.119
I don't think so.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:49.759
No, it's not.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:51.519
That's gonna give me some weird results.
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:52.640
No, it's not gonna do it.
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:53.680
No, it's not gonna do that.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:04.160
Uh UFO flap is a sudden high concentration of reported unidentified flying object sightings in a specific geographic area over a short period.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:06.160
That sounds like a flap to me.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:07.119
It does.
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:12.079
Ocean Springs City Council was just cashing in on a hot topic, which is smart.
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:12.559
Yeah.
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:13.200
Okay.
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:17.440
Well, let's go into life after the lights of this UFO.
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:26.160
So with the scientific and skeptical cases both on the table, the last piece of the story is what happened to Hickson and Parker once the cameras and researchers eventually moved on.
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.519
Their two paths ended up looking very different from each other.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:34.960
Charles Hickson became, in the words of several researchers, the torchbearer of the case.
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:40.079
He spent years giving interviews, appearing at conventions, and speaking publicly about the encounter.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:46.720
In 1983, he co-authored a book called UFO Contact in Pascagoula with William Mendez.
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:47.759
Great.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:48.640
Of course.
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:48.960
Yeah.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.599
Like when when someone is making money, it makes it a little less believable.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:54.319
Yeah.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:59.119
I mean, we will talk a little bit about Calvin because he had a really hard time finding work.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:05.119
I think living in a small town like this where you have an experience like they did.
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:06.880
A public experience.
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:15.039
Whatever, yeah, whatever happened to them because something definitely did, you end up like Randy Quaid's character in Independence Day.
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:15.519
Right.
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:16.880
Kind of like the joke.
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:17.599
Yeah.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:24.559
He also claimed additional contact experiences after 1973, most notably a Mother's Day sighting in 1974.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:25.440
So a year later.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.720
Less than a year.
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:28.480
Like seven months later?
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:29.359
In May.
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:29.759
Yeah.
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.160
Yeah.
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:35.039
May 1974, during which he said his family witness a different craft while traveling together.
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:39.519
His wife reportedly became so hysterical that Hickson couldn't get out of the car.
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.480
Hickson also claimed to possess a message stone.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:44.000
This is this is funny.
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:44.640
Nice.
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:53.359
Allegedly given to him by the entities, describing it as lightweight, indestructible, and prone to heat up during what he called telepathic transmissions.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:54.400
Oh boy.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:55.119
That's weird.
00:24:55.359 --> 00:25:00.400
His wife Blanche later described her husband suffering from cold sweats for months after the encounter.
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:04.240
Severe enough that she had to change his bed sheets multiple times a night.
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:08.720
Yeah.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.440
One of the worst chores is to change bedsheets.
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:13.759
You're not going to do it multiple times a night.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:14.400
No way.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:16.720
You're just going to be like, nope, let them sleep and they're sick.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:22.079
Yeah, she's going to go on the couch or have him go somewhere else and Oh, she's going to go somewhere else.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:22.559
Oh, yeah.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:23.119
She's going to go.
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.640
Because if he goes somewhere else, she's still laying in his sweat, his sick.
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:27.920
Yeah, that's true.
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:28.880
Yeah, no way.
00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:32.960
And who has multiple bed sheets to be doing this every night?
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.720
Well, I mean, Travis, you and I, like we said, we're adults.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:37.200
Yeah.
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:37.920
And we do.
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:38.799
Multiple?
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:39.839
I think I've got two.
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:41.119
I think we have two.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:42.319
That just seems wild.
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:43.839
That they would just be changing it.
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:44.000
Yeah.
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.680
That she would change it multiple times.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:46.400
You're right.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:47.759
It is like one of the worst chores.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:48.400
Yeah.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.279
So Calvin Parker's path looked much harder.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:26:00.160
He experienced multiple nervous breakdowns and long stretches of job instability, and he spent years in seclusion, largely avoiding public attention connected to the case.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.359
For years he stayed almost entirely out of the public eye.
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:08.000
He even kept the full story hidden from parts of his own family for about 45 years.
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:09.759
Can you imagine keeping a secret like that?
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:10.400
No.
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:16.799
So in the mid-2010s, Parker's health took a turn, and that decline pushed him to finally tell his side of things.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:22.240
He often said everybody has an expiration date, and he wanted his story out there before his ran out.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:29.440
In 2018, with encouragement from his wife, he released his own book called Pascagoa, The Closest Encounter, My Story.
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:36.160
It was the first full account of the event told from his point of view, covering both the night itself and the decades of fallout that followed.
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.319
Once the book came out, Parker started doing more interviews and attending UFO conventions.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:43.119
He had actually gotten involved in the field earlier than that.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:50.880
Back in 1993, he started a company called UFO Investigations, aimed at producing television segments about UFOs and abduction cases.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:27:00.400
His book also encouraged other Pascagoula residents to come forward with their own sightings from that same October night after keeping quiet about them for the same 45 years.
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:01.200
Wow.
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.559
This seems a little incongruous.
00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:07.519
Like he started UFO investigations.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:17.200
Like going out and investigating this, it seems like that would be such a freeing thing to hear other people have that experience, and you would want to share that as well, right?
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:19.200
So it just seems weird that he kept that.
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:20.960
Yeah, I mean, there's different people out there.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:27.279
I mean, there's some people, I mean, he could have been ashamed depending on the community and the family or in how he was raised.
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:30.480
It could have been just something you keep to yourself.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.240
I imagine it is freeing.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:33.119
It would have been.
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:33.599
Yeah.
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:35.920
I mean, he they people knew that he was involved in this.
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.279
He just didn't want to talk about it.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:37.680
Yeah.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.279
But then was like seeking out other people's experiences.
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:42.720
Yeah, that's interesting.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:43.119
Hmm.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:47.599
So Pascagoa has since kept the story alive with an annual alien festival.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:48.160
Nice.
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:54.000
And Netflix's Files of the Unexplained opens with its Pascagoula episode with a tribute to Parker.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:55.279
And that was part of our research.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:56.319
Yeah, we watched that.
00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:07.839
In 2019, the city of Pascagoa unveiled an official Mississippi historical marker near the riverbank, and the mayor was there for the unveiling, and the marker formally recognized the encounter as part of the region's history.
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:08.400
Cool.
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:09.599
That's kind of nice.
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.319
Yeah.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.039
Which I mean happens most of the time.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:18.559
Like the town ends up embracing it, which is while going back to him not wanting to talk about it.
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:26.160
I mean, obviously nowadays people are a lot more willing to embrace and recognize more inclusive, you'd think.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:26.799
Right.
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:32.960
So the Pascal Goula case gives us about as complete a paper trail as any abduction story on the books.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:48.240
A secret recording of two men alone and afraid, a medical report with matching puncture marks, which is wild, a polygraph examiner who came in mocking the case and then left convinced, two respected researchers willing to put their names behind the sincerity of the witnesses.
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.960
And then at the same time, we've got a polygraph operator with limited credentials.
00:28:53.119 --> 00:29:06.640
We have a decline second test, a wartime trauma history that lines up neatly with a psychological explanation, and an Air Force that says one thing publicly while apparently documenting the case in detail behind the scenes.
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.640
So if you and I got abducted together, which, you know, fingers crossed, that would be ideal for me.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.799
If I was ever to get abducted, it would be with my Say it, say it.
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:18.240
My best buddy Josh.
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:19.119
Yes.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:20.240
I said it.
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:24.640
And we both came out with matching puncture marks.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.160
Wouldn't we then go and get buddy tattoos?
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:29.279
Oh yeah.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:30.720
Right over the top of that?
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.359
Yeah.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:32.240
Never forget.
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.160
Like a Calvin and a Hobbes?
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:34.559
Yeah.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:35.200
Absolutely.
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:36.799
Well.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:38.160
Which one of us is a Calvin?
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:39.039
Which one is a Hobbs?
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:40.960
Yeah, that would that would break the friendship.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:41.920
Oh, you think so?
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.759
But maybe Mario and Luigi?
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.839
Well, I feel like I'm obviously Luigi.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:46.720
Okay.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.480
Yep, let's do it.
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:54.079
So is there any piece of evidence that moves that needle for you?
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:55.920
Whether it happened or did not?
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.720
No, because and it this is gonna come down to like memory.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.920
He didn't share this with anybody.
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:10.400
So his details, we don't know if they changed or not, but people's memories are so faulty.
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:14.799
And the story that you tell, whether it's true or not, becomes the story.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.400
And 45 years is a long, long time.
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:23.200
At the very least, he should have written it down like right after it happened.
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:24.240
He might have.
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:24.880
I don't know.
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:25.359
Right.
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.559
But I mean, you're speculating.
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.200
All I know is that according to the notes we have, he didn't.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:33.759
He didn't write a book until later and it was on a remembrance of his own account.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.599
But I mean, the police wrote it down.
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.599
There was interviews and stuff like that.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:39.359
So I imagine Sure.
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:42.640
In a very clinical way, though, and who knows what those police notes look like.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:49.359
They might have just said crazy person had his butt touched and showed up here covered in his own ejaculate.
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:50.160
We don't know.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:51.359
Now you're speculating.
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:52.000
You're right.
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:52.400
I am.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:54.799
I imagine there was that talk though.
00:30:54.960 --> 00:31:06.079
If the guy said that it was a female presenting alien and he was naked, that is exactly the kind of thing that people back, especially back then, they would just jump to that conclusion.
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:14.960
I mean, we didn't I'll post a link to like the Wi-Fi's video where they talk about where she reached her hand inside of his mouth or his fingers and his nose.
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.240
Threw his mouth up into his nose and took something out.
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:24.480
And before she reached her fingers in one of her fingers, it turned into a probe, like organic tech.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:25.039
I don't know.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.160
I don't know.
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:27.119
It's wild.
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:38.079
But I would I would imagine that if something that traumatic happened, I could see that being seared into your head forever, where the details don't change.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:45.680
You know, I've had really traumatic dreams that I can remember in detail, and me describing it does not change.
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:50.000
So something happening in the waking, I imagine it would be similar.
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:52.799
Doesn't mean that it all happened as is.
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:53.359
Okay.
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:59.440
Well, I'm saying it doesn't really push the needle just because it's based on a 45-year-old memory.
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:00.799
I do think something happened.
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:02.559
I don't know what it was.
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:06.160
Maybe it was anotherworldly encounter.
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:10.720
I don't know what it would have been instead of something like this.
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:14.799
I mean, we're getting maybe we're getting closer, Josh, to me just being all in.
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:15.839
And well, maybe not.
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:22.160
I do think the Pascagoula abduction is more believable than some of the other abductions.
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.079
Yeah, like the Walton experience.
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:25.279
Yeah, Travis Walton.
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:27.359
Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:28.720
Yeah, Betty and Barney.
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.240
I like Betty and Barney, but again, I don't know.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:33.680
I I know that something happened.
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:35.680
I know something happened to Betty and Barney.
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:36.799
I just don't know what it is.
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.480
And I know something happened to these two.
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:39.519
I know that something happened.
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.400
This is like a trauma that they experienced.
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:50.640
Yeah, and I I don't necessarily believe the other encounters as much or the the stone that he got.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.319
Like, where's the stone?
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:53.920
No one's probably seen the stone.
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:54.480
Yeah.
00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:56.480
It was called a message stone.
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.400
There's also a Mormon tie.
00:32:58.799 --> 00:32:59.200
Ooh.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:32:59.839
Gimme.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:17.519
Joseph Smith allegedly used what's called a what did he call a sear stone to translate the Mormon plates that eventually became the Book of Mormon, but he wouldn't let anybody see them and hid him under like a hat and then had things.
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:25.920
Or like he put a shroud over his head and then was under there with these plates and the sear stone and said he was uh translating them.
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:30.240
He had somebody in the room and he would just like read off whatever it was.
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:31.680
It's just interesting, it's wild.
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:35.119
But yeah, the stones are involved in in that as well.
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:36.480
I believe something happened.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:37.519
I don't for sure.
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:38.880
I mean, I wasn't there.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:50.240
I wasn't there for the aftermath or the the interviews, but taking the experts at their word, it sounds like they were very convincing that something happened.
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:52.000
Like they could not fake what they did.
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:56.160
Yeah, and I think the most telling piece is I I don't like it.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:04.400
I don't like that they were secretly recorded against their will, but I mean they didn't know that, and so they were it is possible that they did.
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:10.719
I mean, a guy going through five wars probably assumes that someone's listening, or if there's a double-sided glass or something, you know.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:11.360
Maybe.
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:12.880
I yeah, I don't know.
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:16.320
That alone doesn't change my thought process at all.
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:16.960
No.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:21.119
So that is the Pascagoula abduction case.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:22.079
In a nutshell.
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:22.320
Yeah.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:23.199
In a nutshell.
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:26.880
We'll post the Netflix video that we watched and the Y files.
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:27.840
Good old AJ.
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:29.840
So you can start your own investigation.
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:31.599
And then let us know what you guys think.
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:35.119
If you've read either of these books that have been released, that'd be great to hear about.
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.000
Yeah, send us some fan mail, uh link in the bio.
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:42.159
And speaking of fan mail and reviews, we actually have some good ones.
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:43.840
Yay! They're all good.
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:45.039
Come on, they're all good.
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:51.920
Some are just a little more you might say constructive, I would say mean spirited and cruel.
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.119
So here is one from YouTube.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:56.079
Oh, YouTube.
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:57.519
So Mike McCabe.
00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:58.320
McCab.
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.480
He said, You guys have the best alien podcast.
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:03.440
Whoa.
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:06.559
And then he's a hundred percent fire emoji.
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:07.440
Hell yeah.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.360
They don't just put those on every comment.
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:12.880
They don't hand those emojis out.
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:14.960
Yeah, no, that's that's special.
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:15.840
That's pretty cool.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:17.039
Thanks, Mike McCabe.
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.239
Yeah, thank you.
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.880
And then another one, this is a fan mail.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.239
He said, I love, love, love, love, love your show.
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:25.599
How many is that?
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:26.400
Five.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.360
Yeah, that's a lot of love.
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:40.639
And then he sent another one shortly after, like 20 minutes later, saying, one, may you both continue this informative and thoroughly delightful show forever.
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:50.639
Two, may you never be abducted by aliens, Travis, because we won't have anyone to contradict Josh all those times and poke fun at his ideas.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:51.920
I love it.
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:58.400
And three, because this show would have to change his name to Aliens Yes, which sounds a lot more boring.
00:35:58.639 --> 00:35:59.280
It is.
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:00.000
I agree.
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:04.239
Aliens Yes is there's not much, not much wiggle room there.
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:06.559
Well, for one, no, no ambiguity.
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:07.119
No.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.840
Well, yeah, I hope Travis doesn't get abducted either.
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:11.760
If he does, it'll be together.
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:12.480
Yes.
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:13.440
And it better be.
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:14.800
Do you hear me, Aliens?
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.320
So we can get tattoos.
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:17.039
Well, cool.
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:17.679
I love that.
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:18.639
Thank you so much.
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:19.760
Uh, we want more.
00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:20.400
Yep.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:21.599
Hit us up.
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:22.239
All right.
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:30.159
Well, that leads us to the fun and potentially embarrassing part of the show where we find out our next episode topic.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:31.679
Okay, yeah, yeah.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.599
The baseline quiz.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:36.159
Okay.
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:39.519
I just opened the quiz.
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:40.880
Have you opened it yet?
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:41.760
Yeah.
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:43.039
Mount Shasta.
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:44.559
Uh, love it.
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:45.840
Like the soda pop.
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:46.400
Yeah.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:49.039
Well, it probably was named after that, right?
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:49.840
I think so.
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:55.199
I have heard sprinkles throughout my your time on this plane?
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:55.920
Yeah.
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:56.960
And it's wild.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:58.639
So I'm really excited to hear about this.
00:36:58.960 --> 00:36:59.199
Okay.
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:00.639
But I don't know much.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.519
So, first question: where is Mount Shasta located?
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.360
Is it A Pakistan?
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:11.519
B Chile, C California, or D Ghana?
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:12.880
Uh, California.
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:14.320
I was gonna say California.
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:14.960
Do we know?
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:15.440
Do you know?
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.159
Pretty sure.
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:17.519
I'm pretty sure it's California.
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:17.920
Yeah.
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:18.960
All right, next one.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:20.559
How tall is Mount Shasta?
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:33.360
Is it A 7,234 feet, B 10,670 feet, C 12,087 feet, or D 14,179 feet?
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:34.239
Uh-huh.
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:35.519
I don't either.
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:41.679
I'm trying to think of it in terms of the tallest peak in Idaho, which is Mount Bora, and that's 13,000.
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:44.079
It's like 13,200, something like that.
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:45.360
I climbed it once.
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:46.880
No, I don't.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:47.920
I got it.
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:51.599
Don't start lying on no one's gonna believe anything we say if you lie like that.
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:52.159
I did.
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:52.800
I climbed it.
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:54.159
It's not like that.
00:37:54.559 --> 00:38:00.079
There's one part of it called Chicken Out Ridge where you have to I cling to the side of a rock.
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.360
Oh my gosh.
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:04.000
It's really, really fucking scary.
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:06.639
But other than that, it's mostly a nice easy trail.
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:10.559
Well, that means nothing to me because I have never seen that mountain.
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:13.039
I don't know the average mountain height.
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.280
I don't even know the difference between a hill and a mountain.
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:16.960
No, nobody does really.
00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:20.559
So I'm gonna I'm gonna say C 12,087 feet.
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:26.400
Okay, I'm gonna say slightly bigger than what I believe Mount Bora is, and that's 14,000.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:26.960
Okay.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:28.719
All right, next one.
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:40.960
Geologically, Mount Shassa is uh A giant granite dome, B, burial mound, C, stratovolcano, or D fold mountain.
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:42.960
I'm gonna throw out a burial mound.
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:44.320
Yeah, it's not a burial mound.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.679
Yeah, burial mounds are built.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:47.440
Get out of here, burial mound.
00:38:47.599 --> 00:38:49.760
Uh giant granite dome.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:50.719
That's cool.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:52.159
You know what a dome means.
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:53.679
It's hollow underneath.
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:54.559
That's true.
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:56.320
I don't know what a fold mountain is.
00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:58.960
I've never heard of fold mountain stratovolcano.
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.280
I think Shasta was a volcano.
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.840
I mean, I would err on a mountain being a volcano most of the time.
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:07.199
So I'm gonna say volcano.
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:08.320
That's what I'm gonna say too.
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:15.840
Next one, what is the name of the legendary subterranean city believed by some to exist beneath Mount Shasta?
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:17.199
The A.
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:22.480
Agartha, B Telos, C El Dorado, or D.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:23.599
Atlantis.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:24.960
Well, it's not Atlantis.
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:25.519
That's in the ocean.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.400
Atlantis.
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.519
And El Dorado was South.
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:31.199
Like South America.
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:35.280
I mean, unless it's not in California and it's in Chile, but I don't.
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.719
Um I'm gonna so I for me it's either A or B.
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:40.239
I'm gonna say Agartha.
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:41.760
That's what I'm gonna say too.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:46.400
Because Talos is a guy in um, or maybe it's Talos.
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:46.960
You know what?
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:48.239
I'm gonna say Talos.
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:48.639
Okay.
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:52.079
Talos is a Marvel character.
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.280
He's a a scroll played by Ben Mendelson.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:55.679
Okay.
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:57.280
In the in the movies.
00:39:57.519 --> 00:39:58.239
So next one.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:06.000
In 1934, a prospector vanished the night before he was scheduled to lead an expedition to what at Mount Shasta?
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:12.239
A, a crashed extraterrestrial craft, B, an 11-mile tunnel of gold and mummies.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:19.199
C a deep underground military base, or D, a secret alien headquarters.
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.039
I feel like was Mount Shasta the one No, that was Alaska.
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:26.639
Maybe it was Shasta with the uh Remote View.
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:27.760
Remote viewing.
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:28.159
Yeah.
00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:28.719
Yeah.
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:33.360
So I think there was an alien base or an alien headquarters inside.
00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:34.639
But in 1934?
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:37.440
Oh yeah, that wasn't they weren't doing that yet.
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:38.480
No, not yet.
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:39.440
I don't I don't know.
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.719
I'm gonna say an 11-mile tunnel of gold and mummies.
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:50.400
Even though that goes against the ancient burial ground, I'm gonna say like maybe that was Jordan trying to throw me off specifically.
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.559
I'm gonna say secret alien headquarters.
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:52.880
Okay.
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:53.599
I'm gonna do it.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:54.239
Bold.
00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:54.880
Yeah.
00:40:55.039 --> 00:41:01.119
All right, and then last one, who did Guy Ballard claim to encounter on Mount Shasta in 1930?
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.559
Or Guy Bayard, if you're French.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:12.559
Is it A, Count of Saint Germain, B Merlin, C Circe?
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:16.320
Yeah, Circe, she's a witch in Greek mythology.
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:20.239
Or D Hermes Trismegustus.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:22.480
I have no idea.
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:25.840
I mean, it seems as though all of these are kind of ridiculous.
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:26.719
Hermes?
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:28.480
Is Hermes the Hermes?
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:30.559
No, Hermes doesn't have a surname.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.960
Like the god of messengers.
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.480
Of flying shoes.
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:35.199
Yeah.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:37.920
I'm gonna say Count of Saint Germain.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.880
I don't know who that is.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:40.000
I'm gonna say Count of St.
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:40.639
Germain too.
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:41.360
Lock it out.
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:41.599
Okay.
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:43.599
I don't think I don't think Merlin works.
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.719
I and I don't want to sound like an idiot and pick Hermes.
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:50.320
But I feel like maybe not picking Hermes makes me sound like an idiot.
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:51.119
I'm not an idiot.
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:52.079
I learned something.
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:53.199
No, you're so smart.
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:53.760
Okay.
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:54.159
All right.
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:55.119
I'm gonna submit.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.039
We'll check our accuracy.
00:41:57.360 --> 00:41:57.760
All right.
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.639
Oh my fucking God.
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:01.360
All right.
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:03.840
First one, where is Mount Shasta located?
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.079
We both said California, USA.
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:07.599
That is correct.
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:08.159
Yeah.
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:09.679
How tall is Mount Shasta?
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:12.079
I said 12,087 feet.
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:13.119
That is incorrect.
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:14.960
I said 14,000, correct?
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:16.639
So you got that correct.
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:18.239
You see where we're going with this?
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:22.800
Geologically, Mount Shasta is, we both said a stratovolcano.
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:23.840
Stratovolcano.
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:24.800
That is correct.
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.440
Uh-huh.
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:26.239
Next one.
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:31.119
What is the name of the legendary subterranean city believed by some to exist beneath Mount Shasta?
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:32.719
I said Agartha.
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:33.840
I said Telos.
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:35.360
And Telos was correct.
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:36.239
Correct.
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:37.440
Oh my god.
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:38.639
I'm going to pass out.
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:44.559
In 1934, a prospector vanished the night before he was scheduled to lead an expedition to what at Mount Shasta?
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:46.480
I said a secret alien headquarters.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:47.360
What did you say?
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:51.119
An 11-mile tunnel of gold and mummies.
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:56.960
And it's the 11-mile tunnel of golden mummies.
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:02.559
And then lastly, who did Guy Ballard claiming to encounter at Mount Shasta in 1930?
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:04.000
It was the Count of St.
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:05.760
Germain, which we both said.
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:08.159
Oh my God.
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:10.000
What time is it?
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:10.880
What day is it?
00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:11.760
Oh my God.
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.280
What's in my pulse?
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:16.079
It is beating out of my chest.
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:17.280
So you got 100%.
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:20.239
I got a hundred percent, you guys.
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:21.599
I got a hundred percent.
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:23.280
You've done this once before.
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:25.199
Out of 47 times.
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:25.679
Yeah.
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:26.880
I'm proud of you though.
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.159
Those odds are that's that's not good odds.
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:33.119
You get 100% and you did it twice.
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:34.639
I did it twice.
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:35.440
Good job.
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:37.039
Usually it's a zero.
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:38.960
I hate you so much right now.
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:40.320
Well, I've earned it.
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:41.519
I've earned your hate.
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:44.480
Well, I think I'm gonna have to cheat at some point.
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:44.960
Okay.
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.079
I mean, you get one.
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:46.800
You're right.
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:47.280
I do.
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:48.639
You get one cheat.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:49.280
Well, cool.
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:51.119
So we're gonna talk about Mount Shasta.
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:57.119
I have heard that this is like just an incredibly bizarre hotspot of the weird.
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:58.960
And now we know there's mummies.
00:43:59.199 --> 00:43:59.599
Yeah.
00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:03.440
Woo! Someone called Brendan Fraser.
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.199
Yeah, California Mummies.
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:06.239
Well, cool.
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:07.599
Well, thank you for listening.
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:11.199
And thank you, Jordan, for putting the quiz.
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:15.679
And thank you for the people who leave fan mail and reviews.
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:16.079
Yep.
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:19.199
Thank you guys for just being a part of this incredible moment for me.
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:19.760
It's alright.
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:20.480
I'm just glowing.
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:21.920
I'm starting to sweat a little bit.
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:23.519
I am so excited about this.
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:24.960
Yeah, you look soggy.
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:26.320
I could punch the sky.
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:27.760
Do I look soggy?
00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:28.480
Yeah.
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.320
But like happy soggy.
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:30.960
Yeah.
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:31.519
Yeah.
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:32.000
Yeah.
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:33.519
There's two different kinds of soggy.
00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:35.760
There's probably a lot of there's a lot of different kinds of soggy.
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:37.920
There's yummy soggy and icky soggy.
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:39.360
And you look yummy soggy.
00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:40.079
Okay.
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:40.800
Okay.
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:43.039
Well, that's the show.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.079
Yeah.
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:45.199
All right.
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:46.800
Well, we'll talk to you later.
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:48.239
Bye bye.