Inside BrainStim: A Halifax Clinic Using Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation to treat PTSD

WEBVTT
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Cheers.
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Cheers.
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Cheers.
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And welcome to the afternoon point.
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I'm Mike Tobin.
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I am Matt Conrad.
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And Matt, what happened?
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What this isn't a pub.
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This is not a pub.
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Where are we today?
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We're at Brainstem.
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Maybe our guests could help tell us where we are.
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What happened?
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Yeah, where are we today and who are we with?
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My name is Richard Poochie.
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I'm a veteran.
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I served uh 32 glorious years in uniform, thoroughly enjoyed my career.
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I invited you guys to come by today because I think it was a this is a great location, the Brainstem Clinic here in Halifax to hold this podcast.
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And we opened up about a year ago, and tomorrow's our first anniversary, and I thought it was appropriate to bring you guys here and we can have a brief discussion about what brought me to this stage of my life.
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Yeah.
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And and yeah, we'll we will take some some video as we walk through here and we'll put up on socials and stuff.
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But yeah, I'm excited to hear you know a lot about what goes on here.
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I did a little bit of research myself, but it seems like you're helping a lot of people, so excited to kind of dive in.
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So yeah.
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So you spent three decades in the military, is that right?
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Three decades plus two years.
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Wow.
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Yeah, yeah.
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32 years.
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I joined late before I joined the military.
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Believe it or not, I was a geologist.
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I was working up in northern northern Canada.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah.
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Where was the pivot?
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Was it uh well the pivot was my my dad had a big influence because he served 35 years in the army as well.
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He served in the Second World War, served in Korea, and uh he always wanted his his uh youngest son to be in the military.
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So I I started the process when I was 29 years old.
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I was living up in northern Canada, about uh 32 miles south of the Arctic Circle.
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And I filed my application, and a year later I was uh I found myself in uniform.
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Wow.
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And it's been nonstop.
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So those so many years later, because we're gonna talk about brainstem today, I think primarily like did you yourself encounter barriers when seeking mental health?
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Is that what started this kind of quest?
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Or did you see friends suffering or or or what what was the what was the drive to go from the Yeah, well, I I was in the health services in the military.
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So we need to start that story first.
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Yes, yeah, sure.
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So so I I started off working as what was called a health services officer.
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That was my career path.
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And I served at the tactical level, the operational level, and the strategic level uh throughout my career, had several deployments uh during that time frame.
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So I'm a healthcare executive.
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And so I ended up my career in 2016 as a deputy commander of the Canadian Armed Forces Health Services, which was a phenomenal job because I was responsible for the day-to-day operations of clinics across Canada, support to the Navy, support to the Air Force and operations because you know Afghanistan was still going on at that time.
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And so when I retired, I wanted to maintain what I was doing from a healthcare perspective about access to care.
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And that's one of the biggest challenges veterans have is lack of access to care.
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You talk to any veteran, read, pick up a newspaper, listen to a other podcast, and veterans are complaining that they don't have access to good quality care, whether it's primary care or whether it's mental health care, which is why we're here today.
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So when I first retired, I got into the cannabis world.
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Okay, that was even prior to legalization in 2018.
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I was working for a very small company out of Alberta.
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And my goal was to, you know, educate veterans on cannabis, the do's and don'ts, because most veterans, when they start the cannabis therapy, they're they're sent a box of uh 30 grams of weed and have a good day, guys.
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You know, there's you know, there's no instructions.
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And so that was my mandate was to get out there and educate uh veterans on the the medical cannabis side of the house.
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Aaron Powell When did the military come around on using cannabis for like any type of treatment?
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Well, I don't think the military ever came around.
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Veterans did, right?
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VAC and VAC came around.
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Fair enough.
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Okay.
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So so I think because I only want to speak to VAC, I don't want to speak about protocols and processes and the CAF.
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But VAC came around some time ago.
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You know, like even before 2018, you know, veterans were getting access to cannabis.
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It was through special request, of course, at the time.
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Yeah, I remember this.
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Yeah, but now it's it's it's like uh you know, you know, it's easy access through, you know, you it it's not as hard to get the cannabis approval as it was 15, 20 years ago.
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Yeah, and it's it's just it honestly just kind of felt like that like the veterans really kind of embraced that and were a little bit ahead of the their time, I guess.
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Right before other doctors who were even really embracing it, like outside of military use.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Like most veterans nowadays, you know, uh you know, they they look at cannabis as as an active treatment for their PTSD symptoms, their anxiety, their depression.
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A lot of cannabis is used for for sleep because one of the biggest issues facing veterans is sleep.
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I can't get any sleep.
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Like the morning I flew here, I was up all night.
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I couldn't sleep.
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You know, I just couldn't get a good night's sleep.
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So I just got up at two o'clock in the morning, had coffee, made breakfast, and headed out to the airport.
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Why do you think that is like when you think veterans just can't get any sleep?
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Do you think it's all related to PTSD, or do you think it's related to an array of reasons?
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So I think it's it's kind of a holistic approach.
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Of course, it's the PTSD, the anxiety, the depression, but it could be other factors in their lives that uh are underlying.
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Anything to do with the training?
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Because I mean, like I spent three years in the Army Reserve and I remember like yeah, like I mean, I was young enough, I was a late teenager, right?
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Almost like but so it was fine back at that point.
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Right.
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But you know, they they do drills and like training and where you you know you're work they wake you up from two to three to you know do perimeters and all this other stuff.
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So you're like always on.
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Like I wonder if that's kind of a sum of it either.
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Yeah, part of it too.
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You know, I like I look back on my training.
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My training took place in 1985, believe it or not.
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And I know I look a lot younger than my my chronological age, but it it was hard.
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Like it was, you know, the army was the military was different back in the 80s and the 70s and 60s.
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It's it's a generational thing, right?
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100%.
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And I'm not going to talk about what the army looks like today or the Navy or the Air Force.
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It's not my partship because I'm I'm no longer serving.
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But when I reflect back on my career, it it was it was a very, you know, strictly run regimental capability.
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You know, it's it's you do this, you do that, you go right, and you go left, and you're you're told when you know the old expression in the army is great coats on, great coats off.
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You know, it's just the way it was.
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And it was very stressful, you know, and a lot of a lot of candidates there.
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We were officer cadets at the time, and I I would say the dropout rate was about 20, 20 percent.
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Yeah.
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20 percent.
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It was demanding, you know, yelling, constantly yelling at you, you know, at times physically you know, not abusive, but you know, it was aggressive, aggressive training.
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Yeah, aggressive training.
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I I know like I so I joined in 2001 and I even I then they were talking about how different the military was, you know, just 15, 20 years prior to that.
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Absolutely.
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And even then I kind of I think back now when I put my 2026 brain on and I think about some of the things that were said to people, and I was kind of, ooh, yeah, we can get away with that today.
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No, absolutely not.
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Like, you know, I I could you know huge stories.
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And at the time they were they were very at times traumatic, but uh I reflect back and it was a lot of fun.
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You know I love my time in the military.
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But some people watched Full Metal Jacket a little bit too many times.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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But uh no, if if if you asked me, would I do it again?
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Of course I'd do it again.
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Yeah.
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I'd probably be younger.
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I'd want to join when I was, you know, when you joined at 18, 19 years old.
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I was 28, turning 29.
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Like I was the old man in the platoon, you know.
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Right.
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And and when I got to my unit, uh, which is was in Calgary, which no longer exists, had one brigade.
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You know, I was I was kind of the oldest guy in the whole unit, you know, because everybody was so much younger.
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And that was a challenge too, because I had been, you know, I was a geologist, I'd worked in the field, I'd spent a lot of time in harsh conditions.
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And here I am in the military now and different training ethos.
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We were training for war.
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This is when the Warsaw Pact was still in place.
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It was prior to the Berlin Wall coming down.
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Remember that?
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And you know, I remember I was flown to Europe for a what was called Folex, and it was the time when Gorbachev met with Reagan in Iceland.
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And and I remember we were flying that day from Calgary into Lar, and and the the talks broke off.
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And we thought, fuck, we're going to war.
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We're going to war, guys.
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Yeah.
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So there was a lot of tension back then.
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And uh, you know, when I was a kid, we still had uh we used to sit under uh Heidner desktops from uh Nuclear Fallout, right?
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This is back in the 60s, the Cuban Missile Crisis, right?
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Yeah, and that was pretty wild.
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And you know, uh it was uh it's a generational thing.
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And you look at what's the what's facing the generation today, there's so many things facing the generations today.
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Yeah, I mean uh certainly I mean the military culture has changed a little, but I mean people are still coming back with traumas, that's for sure.
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I mean I mean, and that's that's something that's not gonna get better probably ever as long as there's war as a is a grim reality.
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Yeah, but that's that that's something that is hard to change about the military.
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Like what what we can control and what has changed is how the training gets done.
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And still I mean the more so like when they get out is still an issue, right?
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Which is what we're that's why we're here.
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Yeah, that's why you guys are here.
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And it's it you know, it goes back to that little line I said, access to care.
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You know, that was what kind of my personal mantra when I retired was access to care.
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So we started off with cannabis, and then I went into I stood up a company for with psilocybin.
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We were looking at it was called cannabis 2.0, right?
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Because we had that big bubble with the cannabis world where you know there were companies out there making trillions of dollars off the sale of cannabis, and then poof, the the the floor fell out.
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Right.
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And then everybody kind of transitioned over to psilocybin and and psychedelics.
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So I I did a paper company with a a colleague, a former colleague who was a psychiatrist, and we put together this, it was more or less a an academic exercise looking at the the impact that psilocybin would have on veterans.
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And if you pick up the newspaper today, you know, there's a lot of work and a lot of effort going on about various modalities of psychedelic therapy that are very useful for veterans.
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It's not my area of expertise, I don't want to really give a lot, but there's a lot of veterans out there working very hard to get this capability to to veterans.
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But, you know, we do we do use ketamine here in our clinic here at all our clinics across Canada, which is which is you know still classified according to Health Canada as a psychedelic.
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We We kind of had a we had a guest in our first season, Tim Brody, so obviously you know Tim quite well.
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But it sounds he told a story in that podcast.
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People go back and listen to it, but I'll just use a reference.
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And it sounds like this is what you guys are doing here.
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He talked about the indigenous folk combing the snakes out of their hair when they came back from like battle.
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Right.
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And it sounds like that's really what you're trying to achieve here for people is combing the snakes out of their hair.
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Yeah, I I met Tim.
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You know, Tim, Tim's a great guy.
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He was one of the first um individuals I met here in Halifax before we even stood up this clinic.
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I was intro introduced to Tim, and as a matter of fact, he's the one that told me I should get on this show.
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Yes, that's yeah.
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That's uh so that you know it's we've come full circle here.
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And we Tim comes to this clinic with clients.
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So Tim's a great guy.
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He's a former I bug him about this a lot.
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He was a logistics officer.
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Yeah, yeah, that's okay.
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But so but Tim, uh, you know, we're we're all put we're all part of that, you know, conglomerate of people that just want to help veterans.
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Right.
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That's all we want to do.
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And and there are so many of us out there that want to help veterans.
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And in the city of Ottawa, I live in Ottawa, and the city of Ottawa, the mayor's office, has what's called a veterans task force that he oversees.
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And we have three pillars of care.
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One is education, one is employment, two is homelessness, and three is health care.
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Okay.
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And what we did is, and and it it's it's it's got a large following because you know, we we kind of we the the city does a good job marketing what we do, and they kind of leverage us.
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And we go to a lot of events on the hill in Ottawa, and we meet a lot of politicians and et cetera, et cetera.
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But what we did is about uh six months ago, we we had a meeting where we brought in a room full of providers that look after veterans.
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And we said, well, what do we need to do here as a team?
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This is a non-com competition.
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There's no non-compet competition.
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We just want to help veterans.
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And so we've come up with this strategy that's still under development right now in Ottawa.
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And I think it's something that we want to be able to go to any municipality across the country and say, here's the blueprint about how to better care for veterans.
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Yes.
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It's as simple as that.
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I I love I love it.
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I I mean, I really think, you know, uh whether it's psychedelic therapy, I don't know enough about the therapies to speak on them, right?
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You know, and I mean I understand someone can be controversial when you start talking about drugs into the equation.
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And just that's just a reality, but that's no different from any drugs we take, right?
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But uh well as long as it's you know it's gotta be controlled under under you know clinical supervision.
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Right.
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I think that's the critical phase here.
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It's got to be under clinical supervision.
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And and that's why brainstem, you know, because we work under the guidance of Veterans Affairs Canada through their their their pearls of wisdom on treatment.
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And uh we have to have a psychiatrist in the clinic while there's treatment ongoing.
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So at the end of the day, we're we're we're a psychiatry-led organization.
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You know, it's not a bunch of voodoo medicine going on here.
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You know, we've we've got we've got psychiatrists that come into the office here to the clinic every day.
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And as long as there's one veteran in the clinic, there has to be a psychiatrist, right?
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So that's that's we're psychiatry-led, we're interventional psychiatry.
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You know, we don't deal with first-line psychiatry here, we're interventional.
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So patients are either referred to us.
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Okay.
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Yeah, they're they're referred to us.
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So you can refer it yourself online.
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A veteran can send me an email, and then we get the we have a navigation team in Vancouver, and they help guide the veteran from start to finish, right?
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They do the onboarding process, they set up a psychiatric assessment with one of our psychiatrists, and then we go to VAC for approval.
00:15:35.569 --> 00:15:47.569
And the key here is that a veteran has to present with a VAC disability award for PTSD, anxiety, depression, and chronic pain, or all one of the three.
00:15:47.809 --> 00:15:51.889
And we go to VAC and VAC comes back with the approval process.
00:15:52.049 --> 00:15:55.809
And we've been extremely successful because we follow their guidelines.
00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:56.209
Right.
00:15:56.609 --> 00:16:02.369
So, you know, I I don't think we've had any, you know, no shows or nil returns from VAC.
00:16:02.849 --> 00:16:15.889
From the veteran perspective, like how many people are open to this type of therapy and how many other people like think it's just getting high or just you know, uh too experimental and they're scared of you know going to a going to a machine for assistance?
00:16:16.129 --> 00:16:21.089
Like what yeah, how do you feel like people feel about that when you when these are I'm just gonna give you my perspective on that?
00:16:21.329 --> 00:16:21.489
Yeah.
00:16:21.649 --> 00:16:21.889
Yeah.
00:16:21.969 --> 00:16:35.249
So so from a clinical perspective, you know, that's when you go through the onboarding process with our team, the psychiatrist sits down with a veteran and they go through all of those questions because every veteran has a thousand questions.
00:16:35.409 --> 00:16:39.889
Because one thing about veterans, they're very well informed when it comes to their own health care, right?
00:16:40.049 --> 00:16:48.689
They they they want to make sure that if they're if if they're going to see provider A or B that they're getting the the real meal deal here, right?
00:16:49.249 --> 00:17:04.450
So but the the the outcomes are are quite amazing because what I do in Ottawa, because I, you know, there's a clinic in Ottawa, I meet with the veterans on the first day of the program, and then I drop by on the fifth day, which is the final day of the program.
00:17:04.849 --> 00:17:07.890
And the changes are just amazing.
00:17:08.129 --> 00:17:15.569
But before that, to answer the question, because I was gonna go down another path here, is that TMS has been around for 40 years.
00:17:16.049 --> 00:17:19.250
Like it's not something that was invented six months ago or two years ago.
00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:21.809
And and to people that don't know what TMS is, what's that acronym?
00:17:22.129 --> 00:17:24.769
TMS stands for transcranial magnetic stimulation.
00:17:25.009 --> 00:17:25.170
Right.
00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:26.210
And there are two types.
00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:27.490
There's the big scary word.
00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:29.569
Yeah, it is a yeah, it's it's it's a mouthful.
00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:29.809
Yeah.
00:17:29.890 --> 00:17:32.609
You know, transcranial magnetic stimulation.
00:17:32.849 --> 00:17:34.930
And people get a little bit freaky about that.
00:17:35.089 --> 00:17:36.049
Well, you saw the machine.
00:17:36.369 --> 00:17:36.529
Yes.
00:17:36.769 --> 00:17:36.930
Yeah.
00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:40.210
So, you know, when I show you the coil and it looks like something out of sci-fi.
00:17:41.089 --> 00:17:41.490
Yeah, exactly.
00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:41.650
Right.
00:17:47.009 --> 00:17:50.210
So it stays on uh before the uh clinician can do their work.
00:17:50.529 --> 00:17:52.289
Yeah, it's it's quite intimidating looking.
00:17:52.769 --> 00:18:00.369
It is intimidating, but at the end of the day, you know, you'll find that a lot of veterans, when they're going through the protocol, they fall asleep while the the uh the TMS is running.
00:18:00.609 --> 00:18:01.089
Oh yeah, okay.
00:18:01.250 --> 00:18:01.329
Yeah.
00:18:01.490 --> 00:18:02.849
So we'll talk about that in a second.
00:18:03.009 --> 00:18:10.529
But but I I think if you look at the data out there, the data is very impressive about outcomes, wellness outcomes.
00:18:11.009 --> 00:18:22.529
And one of the most what makes me happy a as a veteran in the healthcare space is that I find that if you talk to a veteran on the fifth day, they'll say, I feel happy.
00:18:23.089 --> 00:18:25.009
Something's changed in my life.
00:18:25.490 --> 00:18:27.730
Okay, and I don't know, they can't explain it.
00:18:28.129 --> 00:18:42.450
But they say, talk to my wife and she'll explain it to you because there's a lot of anecdotal evidence out there, and there's I got I could give you sit here for an hour and talk about testimonials, but you guys don't want to hear that.
00:18:42.769 --> 00:18:57.649
What I want to tell you is that the testimonials will what they say is that I feel better, my PTSD is down, I'm sleeping, I'm happier, my wife loves me, my husband loves me, and I feel more comfortable in my life.
00:18:57.889 --> 00:18:59.089
And that's what it's all about.
00:18:59.490 --> 00:19:03.409
Is this something that like would h like in your experience there?
00:19:03.569 --> 00:19:06.049
Like, have you seen it that like it's something that needs to be ongoing?
00:19:06.129 --> 00:19:15.089
Is it like you know, every six months that someone needs to kind of like check in to kind of like do you see permanent effects or do you see something where it's like, yeah, you need a bit of a check-in once in a while?
00:19:15.569 --> 00:19:16.689
Yeah, that that's a great question.
00:19:16.769 --> 00:19:18.369
It's all about sustainability, right?
00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:18.769
Yeah.
00:19:19.009 --> 00:19:29.169
And so what it is is that it's a five-day accelerated program where you come in on a Monday morning, and of course you're seen by the psychiatrist, and that's mandatory.
00:19:29.409 --> 00:19:36.129
So so what happens is you get five to six treatments over the course of the six hours you're here at the clinic.
00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:47.089
So you come in, you get set up, you meet, you met Ilian, he's our senior TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation technician, real smart guy, and he's got a neuroscience background.
00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:51.169
Most of our technicians all have neurobiology or neurosciences behind their names.
00:19:51.250 --> 00:19:55.809
So these are these are really big brain people and they know a lot about the brain and how it works.
00:19:56.129 --> 00:20:02.609
So you you come in, you get a briefing from the team, and the first session you go in, you get the cap put on.
00:20:02.689 --> 00:20:05.809
It take takes about 20 minutes to get everything situated.
00:20:06.129 --> 00:20:10.769
And then the the treatment lasts 9.9 minutes and 30 seconds.
00:20:11.009 --> 00:20:11.490
Oh, wow.
00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:12.210
Short.
00:20:12.369 --> 00:20:12.529
Okay.
00:20:12.769 --> 00:20:12.929
Yeah.
00:20:13.009 --> 00:20:14.689
So you you go in there, you sit down.
00:20:14.769 --> 00:20:16.929
Like it looks intimidating in there, but it's really not.
00:20:17.009 --> 00:20:17.649
It's quite relaxing.
00:20:17.889 --> 00:20:20.129
Does it feel like 35 years to the patient or something weird?
00:20:20.450 --> 00:20:22.609
No, because some guys, some guys and gals fall asleep, right?
00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:23.009
Okay, yeah.
00:20:23.250 --> 00:20:24.049
Yeah, they'll doze off.
00:20:25.889 --> 00:20:35.089
And some people listen, we we play music in the background, like kind of zen music, and uh it's very, you know, very zen environment, which makes it relaxes the individual.
00:20:35.329 --> 00:20:42.689
So after nine and nine minutes and thirty-some seconds, you go back out into you remember I showed you the group room, well, veterans will go gather there.
00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:46.849
And that's where a lot of the healing is done because veterans talk to each other, right?
00:20:47.009 --> 00:20:47.250
Right.
00:20:47.490 --> 00:20:51.889
So they kind of have that exchange of of, you know, where did you serve?
00:20:51.970 --> 00:20:53.169
When did you go to Afghanistan?
00:20:53.329 --> 00:20:56.289
Where were you when were you in Kosovo or Haiti or something like that?
00:20:56.769 --> 00:20:59.490
And it and it builds bridges and bonds between veterans.
00:20:59.569 --> 00:21:09.009
Aaron Powell, so when I'm getting this helmet put on my head, and I mean I'm not expecting you to explain to me on a high scientific level every single thing that's happening, but what's happening, I guess, on a high level?
00:21:09.169 --> 00:21:15.649
What were these magnets like how are they how are they changing my patterns of thought or creating pathways or whatever they're doing?
00:21:15.970 --> 00:21:18.289
Yeah, it's uh well, that's that that that's a good question.
00:21:18.609 --> 00:21:19.329
I know it's a tough question.
00:21:19.809 --> 00:21:23.649
It's a tough question for me because I don't I don't want to give you any diff disinformation, sure.
00:21:23.889 --> 00:21:27.009
But I can give you the the non-sci the non-clinician perspective.
00:21:27.250 --> 00:21:36.450
Yeah, thank you is that it it targets aspects of the brain that impact the aspects of the brain that influence PTSD, anxiety, depression.
00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:36.769
Okay.
00:21:37.009 --> 00:21:42.450
So it's a matter of rewiring the brain in a non-invasive manner.
00:21:42.769 --> 00:21:42.929
Okay.
00:21:43.329 --> 00:21:44.210
Non-invasive.
00:21:44.289 --> 00:21:44.450
Yeah.
00:21:44.689 --> 00:21:44.929
Okay.
00:21:45.009 --> 00:21:48.210
There's there's nothing like digging into someone's brain, kind of exactly.
00:21:48.450 --> 00:21:53.009
And that's a critical piece, and there's no drugs involved, there's no medication, right?
00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:54.769
So it is what it is.
00:21:54.929 --> 00:22:01.009
Nine nine minutes, thirty seconds, you finish that off, and then you go have a 60-minute break.
00:22:01.329 --> 00:22:03.649
Gives the chance for the brain to resettle.
00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:13.809
And and then what happens is that you go have coffee, you meet with the other veterans, you're bullshitting the way bull you know, veterans do, and then you're called back in again.
00:22:14.450 --> 00:22:23.089
The so like is it and you may and you can tell me your if you can answer this or not, but like is it where they're actually like it going into like the amygdala?
00:22:23.490 --> 00:22:28.210
Because I because amygula is the thing that you know your fight and flight part of your brain.
00:22:36.929 --> 00:22:38.289
Oh, so scot, because the amygdala is deep.
00:22:38.529 --> 00:22:38.849
Yeah, it's deep.
00:22:39.569 --> 00:22:39.809
That way.
00:22:39.970 --> 00:22:40.049
Okay.
00:22:40.129 --> 00:22:40.210
Okay.
00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:40.849
It doesn't go in there.
00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:47.490
No, it it once it gets into that level, then it starts to stimulate the stimulus that impacts the brain.
00:22:47.970 --> 00:22:48.210
Interesting.
00:22:48.369 --> 00:22:48.529
Yeah.
00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:50.210
So that's that non-invasive perspective.
00:22:50.609 --> 00:22:51.250
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:00.289 --> 00:23:06.529
Because this is something that we see a lot in the military, is like that macho kind of like I'm fine type of thing.
00:23:06.609 --> 00:23:09.809
And you're you're kind of programmed to just be tough, right?
00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:18.769
And is this like do you really feel like you're trying to like give people also an opportunity to just like it's okay to not be tough?
00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:25.409
Yeah.
00:23:25.490 --> 00:23:25.569
Okay.
00:23:25.730 --> 00:23:26.369
I I really do.
00:23:26.450 --> 00:23:26.529
Yeah.
00:23:26.769 --> 00:23:35.009
Like I've never met any like in Ottawa, I see a lot of softcom guys, special forces guys that have been through a lot of things.
00:23:35.169 --> 00:23:37.409
And you know, these are these are great guys.
00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:43.169
I really love these guys because, you know, they're like you and me sitting down, you know, we're having this discussion.
00:23:43.409 --> 00:23:45.169
And I I don't see that at all.
00:23:45.329 --> 00:23:45.409
No.
00:23:45.730 --> 00:23:47.490
Like, you know, they they just want to get well.
00:23:47.649 --> 00:23:53.329
Yeah, they just want to go home tonight, see their family, and and have a great night, enjoy their life.
00:23:53.569 --> 00:23:54.689
And that's that's what we want.
00:23:54.849 --> 00:24:00.289
That's what we expect out of our, you know, that's what we should be promoting as a veteran retires.
00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:02.529
Is when once you're retired, have a good life.
00:24:02.929 --> 00:24:05.329
If you're not well, come see, go go get help.
00:24:06.049 --> 00:24:13.490
Yeah, I mean, we're sending uh many of these folks into horrible conditions, you know, to do things that are not ideal, obviously.
00:24:13.649 --> 00:24:15.649
Like they can be quite quite traumatizing.
00:24:15.970 --> 00:24:19.569
So yeah, we we should obviously want to do everything we can to help them.
00:24:20.129 --> 00:24:22.769
Back to the helmets, because I'm still kind of caught up in the helmet.
00:24:25.009 --> 00:24:25.730
Let's talk about lunch.
00:24:25.889 --> 00:24:26.769
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:27.009 --> 00:24:40.450
But like so, so I I think when I put put this on, like, how does this I mean I and I I am understanding what you're saying about how how this changes kind of patterns in the brain or isolates patterns in the brain and and and and really stops them or starts them to some respect.
00:24:40.529 --> 00:24:44.450
Is that but you know, how is that different from just taking a medication?
00:24:45.569 --> 00:24:45.970
Wow.
00:24:46.210 --> 00:24:48.609
That's uh that's a good question for a clinician.
00:24:49.250 --> 00:24:49.730
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:49.889 --> 00:25:08.929
No, and I guess I guess why I'm asking is like, you know, is one better or one, you know, one like you know, it's so challenging to me to kind of understand why, you know, is it would I mean there's anti-ax anti-anxiety medications, there's anti-depression medications, and I mean let me ask this in a non-clinical perspective that's safe.
00:25:09.009 --> 00:25:11.089
I mean, because we none of us want to get sued today.
00:25:11.329 --> 00:25:27.089
So, so but like I I guess a safe way to ask this is like if I was trying other things and they weren't working for me personally from a from a depression state or an anxiety state or something, is this something that other people have explored that if if they have found a guiding light through this type of therapy?
00:25:27.409 --> 00:25:27.569
Absolutely.
00:25:27.809 --> 00:25:27.970
Yeah.
00:25:28.129 --> 00:25:28.369
Yeah.
00:25:28.609 --> 00:25:31.809
You'll you'll find that most veterans want to get off medications.
00:25:32.049 --> 00:25:32.210
Okay.
00:25:32.450 --> 00:25:33.809
Like not a few, all.
00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:35.809
And why do they want to get off medications?
00:25:36.210 --> 00:25:36.929
Because they're horrible.
00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:37.250
Yeah.
00:25:37.490 --> 00:25:41.169
They they just they just you know, do they feel like they're sucking the light out of you?
00:25:41.490 --> 00:25:42.529
They suck everything out of you.
00:25:42.689 --> 00:25:42.849
Yes.
00:25:43.089 --> 00:25:44.129
They they they suck everything.
00:25:44.289 --> 00:25:47.809
You know, some of these veterans are on 10, 12 medications a day, and you go, wow.
00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:48.529
Well, yeah.
00:25:48.689 --> 00:25:50.210
Yeah, and I mean that's the thing.
00:25:50.289 --> 00:25:52.929
As you get older, I mean these medications start to stack.
00:25:53.009 --> 00:25:55.250
So you need one to get you up in the morning, you need one to put you down.
00:25:55.329 --> 00:25:56.849
In the morning, you need one in between.
00:25:57.089 --> 00:25:59.409
And all of a sudden you're you're basically living.
00:25:59.809 --> 00:26:00.769
You're a zombie pills.
00:26:00.849 --> 00:26:01.089
Yeah.
00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:02.609
You're a zombie, you have no life.
00:26:02.769 --> 00:26:05.809
I've been there, you know, I've been through that stage of my life many years ago.
00:26:05.889 --> 00:26:06.049
Okay.
00:26:06.369 --> 00:26:11.009
And when I talk to veterans, you know, they go, I just want to get off the medications.
00:26:11.169 --> 00:26:13.409
You know, I'm on so many medications per day.
00:26:13.569 --> 00:26:13.889
Right.
00:26:14.129 --> 00:26:21.889
And and the this this is a path through TMS, through Brainstem, where we help, you know, kind of wean patients.
00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:22.929
It's their choice, right?
00:26:23.009 --> 00:26:24.049
It's their own.
00:26:24.129 --> 00:26:25.490
You know, if I'm a veteran, come here.
00:26:25.569 --> 00:26:28.129
You don't freaking tell me I can't do this or do that.
00:26:28.529 --> 00:26:31.250
So people are coming to your doorstep at times because they've had enough.
00:26:32.049 --> 00:26:33.250
But there's no other course of action.
00:26:33.409 --> 00:26:36.049
They they look at this as kind of like the last resort.
00:26:36.369 --> 00:26:37.730
You know, I've tried this, doc.
00:26:38.129 --> 00:26:40.049
This is them talking to her psychiatrist, doc.
00:26:40.210 --> 00:26:41.409
I've tried this, I've tried that.
00:26:41.569 --> 00:26:47.809
I've been on X amount of medications, I've done this, I've done psychotherapy, I've stood on my head in the the the cold.
00:26:48.769 --> 00:26:49.730
I've done the cold plunge.
00:26:50.049 --> 00:26:50.450
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:50.689 --> 00:26:59.649
Like you talk to veterans, they'll do anything to feel well because it's not only the um the the psychological and the mental health, it's your physical well-being.
00:27:00.049 --> 00:27:01.089
You just don't feel well.
00:27:01.569 --> 00:27:04.289
And and veterans that are listening, they know what I'm talking about.
00:27:04.369 --> 00:27:05.490
You just don't feel well.
00:27:05.730 --> 00:27:09.970
You feel like you've, you know, I f I felt for years I had a chronic flu.
00:27:10.289 --> 00:27:14.129
You know, you know, I was just, you know, I just felt ill all the time.
00:27:14.609 --> 00:27:15.889
It was i i it's funny.
00:27:15.970 --> 00:27:17.089
I actually saw a clip.
00:27:17.169 --> 00:27:19.649
There's a popular online doctor, Dr.
00:27:19.730 --> 00:27:21.089
Mike, in from the US.
00:27:21.169 --> 00:27:22.289
Uh, he's everywhere right now.
00:27:22.369 --> 00:27:24.609
And I actually really, you know, I really appreciate the stuff that he says.
00:27:24.689 --> 00:27:51.490
But he was talking to he was on someone's podcast, and the guy was really pushing a question that I think is an interesting, good question to ask and explore, and that is when people are really looking for answers for whatever illness it may be, you know, why is there such resistance to letting people try things that are experimental, even though they may not have even been fully tested?
00:27:51.569 --> 00:27:54.929
But if they're willing to sign off and say, like, yeah, I want to try this.
00:27:55.009 --> 00:27:59.569
I just want to try something that it's a huge question that we have in our society.
00:28:00.129 --> 00:28:02.289
It it's an ethical decision, right?
00:28:02.529 --> 00:28:06.609
It's all it it boils down to ethics and and it's risk adverse.
00:28:06.769 --> 00:28:08.289
You know, a lot of people are risk-adverse.
00:28:08.450 --> 00:28:17.569
They they just and this is why a lot of veterans, when they first come to Brain Stim, they have those questions like why the why why should I go to BrainStim?
00:28:17.889 --> 00:28:19.250
Or any other TMS provider.
00:28:19.409 --> 00:28:19.569
Right.
00:28:19.730 --> 00:28:21.889
It doesn't have to be Brainstem, it could be there's other people.
00:28:21.970 --> 00:28:22.689
Wherever they can get help.
00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:23.809
Wherever they can get help.
00:28:24.049 --> 00:28:28.450
And and and this is why, like I'm the senior veteran on the team.
00:28:28.769 --> 00:28:35.089
And my goal is to make sure whatever happens in the clinic reflects in what the veterans find out about.
00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:35.730
Right.
00:28:35.889 --> 00:28:40.210
So that when a veteran veterans trust veterans, right?
00:28:40.369 --> 00:28:41.889
So I'm on the team.
00:28:41.970 --> 00:28:52.450
So what I try to do, what not what I try, what I do is I write to all the veterans that I know that are being on board and just to introduce myself, say I'm a veteran, served 32 years.
00:28:52.689 --> 00:28:55.089
If you have any questions, you know, DM me.
00:28:55.649 --> 00:28:57.409
Have you been through the therapy yourself?
00:28:57.809 --> 00:29:00.609
No, because by the way, when I joined the team, that's a great question.
00:29:00.769 --> 00:29:06.210
I've I've tried the therapy because, but at the end of the day, VAC would never approve me because I'm no longer acute.
00:29:06.450 --> 00:29:07.889
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:29:08.129 --> 00:29:08.369
Yeah.
00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:13.409
So if my file went to VAC, they'd say, you know, I wouldn't even make it past their psychiatrist.
00:29:13.490 --> 00:29:13.730
Oh, right.
00:29:13.970 --> 00:29:18.049
Because he'd say, no, you you you're you're not a good candidate for TMS.
00:29:18.289 --> 00:29:18.369
Yeah.
00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:19.730
But I've gone through the process.
00:29:19.809 --> 00:29:20.769
I've done the training.
00:29:20.849 --> 00:29:21.089
Okay.
00:29:21.250 --> 00:29:36.689
I did the uh the the training, which was uh phenomenal, gave me a lot of background knowledge on you know the you know what what neuroplasticity is all about, learned about interventional psychiatry, and but I just don't want to I don't want to touch patients.
00:29:36.929 --> 00:29:39.250
No, no, that's you know, I just it's not part of me.
00:29:39.329 --> 00:29:40.129
That's why I never went to medical.
00:29:42.049 --> 00:29:44.369
Do you have any like kind of close contacts that have been through this?
00:29:44.769 --> 00:29:45.009
Absolutely.
00:29:45.250 --> 00:29:48.769
And and and like how how are they how are they doing years later or months later?
00:29:49.169 --> 00:29:50.849
I mean, what's your what's your kind of insights?
00:29:50.929 --> 00:29:53.089
Uh if somebody that you keep regular tabs on?
00:29:53.409 --> 00:29:56.769
Yeah, well, I I keep in touch with a lot of the veterans that have been through the program.
00:29:56.849 --> 00:29:58.689
It's nothing but positive feedback from them.
00:29:58.849 --> 00:29:59.009
Yeah.
00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:00.769
But you know, some have been challenged.
00:30:00.849 --> 00:30:01.490
Let's let's be honest.
00:30:01.649 --> 00:30:04.289
You know, I'm sure I don't expect it to work for everybody all the time.
00:30:04.689 --> 00:30:07.169
It doesn't work like any other medical procedure, right?
00:30:07.250 --> 00:30:08.289
It doesn't work for everybody.
00:30:08.369 --> 00:30:12.689
But I would say, you know, 95% plus are coming back with positive returns.
00:30:12.769 --> 00:30:19.490
And this and the sustainability, like you know, uh VAC will approve up to 90 sessions per calendar year for a veteran.
00:30:19.730 --> 00:30:21.329
That's a lot of sessions.
00:30:21.809 --> 00:30:32.210
So for our protocol, which is approved by VAC and Health Canada, for an accelerated program, we do 30 in-house on the first week.
00:30:32.369 --> 00:30:35.649
Okay, and then we keep 28 for what's called maintenance.
00:30:36.129 --> 00:30:42.369
And they come back every two to three weeks for a day here in the clinic where they go through the process and then they go home.
00:30:42.609 --> 00:30:50.450
And then even after even after that is done, VAC will automatically you know regenerate the 90 sessions for the next calendar year.
00:30:50.769 --> 00:30:51.889
Is it addictive in any sense?
00:30:52.129 --> 00:30:55.329
Like what I feel like I need, like I mean, if you if you want to feel good, it is.
00:30:55.809 --> 00:30:56.849
Well, well, well, yeah.
00:30:57.009 --> 00:30:59.329
Well, I mean, we all want a sense of euphoria, right?
00:30:59.490 --> 00:31:01.250
So I mean that that would be a concern too.
00:31:01.329 --> 00:31:10.689
If I was kind of coming back to kind of get that first hit of relief that I may have not felt in years of myself, I'd be fearful that like like heroin or something that just feels transcending.
00:31:10.769 --> 00:31:12.210
I'd want to go back and try it again.
00:31:12.529 --> 00:31:13.409
Well, you you met Dr.
00:31:13.569 --> 00:31:16.129
Vene, our our our um CEO.
00:31:16.689 --> 00:31:17.009
Brilliant man.
00:31:17.250 --> 00:31:17.329
Yeah.
00:31:17.730 --> 00:31:18.049
Oh my god.
00:31:18.609 --> 00:31:20.769
Oh, every time he talked about something, he was like, oh, and I also did that.
00:31:21.009 --> 00:31:22.049
And I also have a degree in this.
00:31:22.129 --> 00:31:26.210
And it's like, holy he set off about 85 light bulbs in my mind in six minutes.
00:31:26.450 --> 00:31:27.009
A very smart man.
00:31:27.089 --> 00:31:27.250
Wow.
00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:31.089
Like I felt like throwing in the towel and telling him to come here to the podcast.
00:31:31.490 --> 00:31:32.769
Like I felt almost embarrassing.
00:31:34.049 --> 00:31:36.129
Hugely impressed by what he's trying to do.
00:31:36.210 --> 00:31:36.289
Yeah.
00:31:36.769 --> 00:31:37.490
But he's very humble.
00:31:37.649 --> 00:31:38.529
He's a very humble man.
00:31:38.929 --> 00:31:43.809
And and I mean, you look a man in the eye often tell what their passions are, and it was it was a hundred percent there.
00:31:44.129 --> 00:31:45.009
Well, well, it's interesting.
00:31:45.089 --> 00:31:47.009
We we I had a vet come in this morning.
00:31:47.089 --> 00:31:48.289
Yeah, he's a veteran.
00:31:48.369 --> 00:31:51.730
He I won't discuss his name because he didn't give me permission to mention his name.
00:31:51.889 --> 00:31:52.049
Yeah.
00:31:52.289 --> 00:31:56.450
And he's been a bit of a naysayer, you know, because he comes an old school guy.
00:31:56.529 --> 00:31:56.769
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:57.009 --> 00:31:57.649
Old school.
00:31:57.889 --> 00:31:59.169
And so, you know, Mr.
00:31:59.409 --> 00:32:02.929
X came in and we we sat him down in the in the chair.
00:32:03.009 --> 00:32:05.329
We gave him one session just to know what it's like.
00:32:05.889 --> 00:32:09.329
And and so we said, Well, how do I know if this is working?
00:32:09.409 --> 00:32:09.809
And etc.
00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:10.450
etc.
00:32:10.849 --> 00:32:15.809
And so Vinay said, It's like, you know, when you go to the gym, you get pumped, right?
00:32:16.289 --> 00:32:19.009
And people are saying, Wow, I want to stay pumped.
00:32:19.250 --> 00:32:21.889
And so it's the same analogy for the TMS.
00:32:22.049 --> 00:32:27.730
I feel healthy, so I'm gonna go back and have another hit in three weeks, and I'm still gonna feel pumped.
00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:28.369
Nice.
00:32:28.450 --> 00:32:30.289
Yeah, that's the nice thing about it.
00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:37.169
And it goes back to you know, you can drive here in the morning for the TMS, and you can go home at 2 30.
00:32:37.250 --> 00:32:39.970
You you you don't need somebody to come pick you up, you know.
00:32:40.129 --> 00:32:40.689
Yeah, that's true.
00:32:40.849 --> 00:32:43.169
You know, there's there's no side effects.
00:32:43.329 --> 00:32:47.649
Okay, you some guys, you know, and you look it up in the literature, it's right in the literature.
00:32:47.809 --> 00:32:52.849
Some guys might get a mild headache, you know, but you know, take two two tile and I'll go home.
00:32:52.929 --> 00:32:53.409
Yeah, right.
00:32:53.569 --> 00:32:54.450
But that's about it.
00:32:54.609 --> 00:32:55.970
You know, it's really not.
00:32:56.849 --> 00:32:57.730
It's so cutting edge.
00:32:57.809 --> 00:33:02.529
I mean, a lot of people are probably listening to this for the first time and just wondering if it you could help them, probably, right?
00:33:02.689 --> 00:33:04.929
And it's so it's it's it's uh it's interesting to me.
00:33:05.089 --> 00:33:13.089
These new technologies that I mean, I know it's it's like you said it was four years old, but to me it's still like a relatively uncovered resource that people aren't noticing.
00:33:13.490 --> 00:33:19.409
Yeah, well, you remember I showed you the there's two helmets that we have at those helmets are very pricey, as you can imagine.
00:33:19.490 --> 00:33:24.529
So I could only imagine the blue one is for what we use on veterans for for anxiety depression in that.
00:33:24.689 --> 00:33:24.849
Yeah.
00:33:25.169 --> 00:33:28.609
And then the the green one was for smoking cessation.
00:33:28.769 --> 00:33:28.929
Yeah.
00:33:29.250 --> 00:33:34.609
But every year the company Brainsway that produces the this equipment, they're coming out with new protocols.
00:33:35.089 --> 00:33:35.889
ADHD.
00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:36.289
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:36.529 --> 00:33:36.929
Parkinson.
00:33:37.409 --> 00:33:38.210
Interesting you say that.
00:33:38.450 --> 00:33:48.289
I mean, ADHD is such a finite or such a hard thing to measure, I think, because we all ADHD, I think there's so many even variations of it itself and how how it shows in various forms, right?
00:33:48.450 --> 00:33:49.409
Like various spectrums.
00:33:49.809 --> 00:33:50.769
But it's a different helmet.
00:33:50.849 --> 00:33:51.009
Yeah.
00:33:51.169 --> 00:33:51.329
Okay.
00:33:51.409 --> 00:33:54.289
The coils, you know, that the coils I showed you, they'd be different.
00:33:54.529 --> 00:33:54.689
Yeah.
00:33:54.849 --> 00:33:58.210
You know, the the protocol's different because it hits different parts of the brain, right?
00:33:58.450 --> 00:34:00.529
So PDSDs on this side with uh depression.
00:34:00.929 --> 00:34:08.690
And when he says coils, it looks like something like straight out of a science fiction movie, almost a sprainy, uh big computer chair, Tron or something.
00:34:09.490 --> 00:34:09.889
Yeah, Tron.
00:34:10.130 --> 00:34:10.769
That's I like the tron.
00:34:10.929 --> 00:34:11.250
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:11.490 --> 00:34:11.730
Perfect.
00:34:11.889 --> 00:34:12.050
Yeah.
00:34:12.289 --> 00:34:17.650
So it and and yeah, and you it's so yeah, we obviously that would help with addiction type of stuff.
00:34:17.970 --> 00:34:22.050
And and you you may not be able to even comment on this, but you m may know some of it.
00:34:22.130 --> 00:34:25.570
But because leading up to this, I was reading a little bit about the TMS.
00:34:25.970 --> 00:34:36.610
And they're starting to use it for people in comas as well, which I thought was pretty interesting because you know you might be able to like really kind of get into people's brains when they're in a coma.
00:34:37.090 --> 00:34:44.929
Did you know that uh there are clinics in Toronto that offer TMS for people with early stages of dementia?
00:34:45.329 --> 00:34:45.650
Okay.
00:34:45.970 --> 00:34:46.289
Yeah.
00:34:46.530 --> 00:35:03.090
So so say say you have an aging parent that's you know starting to show signs of dementia or or Alzheimer's, you can send them to this clinic and they they use a different style of coil, yeah, different protocol for helping elderly.
00:35:03.330 --> 00:35:05.650
And I think that's that's pretty uh could be amazing.
00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:06.050
Yeah.
00:35:06.210 --> 00:35:06.370
Right?
00:35:06.530 --> 00:35:10.130
Wouldn't you love to see the people got the few extra years that just their own?
00:35:11.090 --> 00:35:19.490
Well, there was there was that uh there was like I I can't remember what study that came out just like a week or two ago, but they uh they gave what was it?
00:35:19.570 --> 00:35:22.450
Uh I don't know if it was LSD or psilocybin or whatever.
00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:23.010
They gave something.
00:35:23.090 --> 00:35:24.370
No, it was mushroom, yeah, it was mushrooms.
00:35:24.450 --> 00:35:35.010
They gave psilocylocybin to like an elderly person with Alzheimer's, and for an entire day or 20 hours showed no signs of Alzheimer's.
00:35:35.330 --> 00:35:35.650
Wow.
00:35:35.890 --> 00:35:36.130
Yeah.
00:35:36.370 --> 00:35:39.890
Like they were like back to like reconnected a few wires at least for momentarily.
00:35:40.210 --> 00:35:41.010
Momentarily, yeah, yeah.
00:35:41.170 --> 00:35:44.610
Which is uh mind-blowing that stuff like this.
00:35:45.010 --> 00:35:50.690
Well, I think there's so much out there within the healthcare community where you know we're leading the charge, right?
00:35:50.850 --> 00:35:51.090
Yeah.
00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:53.090
And that's you know, we want to make a difference.
00:35:53.170 --> 00:35:57.090
We want we want to make a difference, and that's that's uh that's why I'm here.
00:35:57.490 --> 00:36:06.130
Do you guys see like I know your obviously your role is to to help veterans and and I would imagine probably like even law enforcement, there's probably some of the things that we've got to do.
00:36:06.210 --> 00:36:07.730
RCMP, yeah, RCMP veterans.
00:36:07.970 --> 00:36:09.090
Yeah, we see a lot of them as well.
00:36:09.490 --> 00:36:18.610
And but is there any like real look uh kind of hope to expand even well beyond that to offer things like addiction maybe services or anything like that?
00:36:19.010 --> 00:36:22.769
Well the the the the it's coverage, right?
00:36:22.930 --> 00:36:24.690
Yeah like it cut it's it's not cheap.
00:36:25.010 --> 00:36:27.809
Going through a TMS program is is is costly.
00:36:28.289 --> 00:36:36.850
But there are people that spend$80,000,$100,000 to go to to these uh these addiction treatment centers for 30 days or whatever it is.
00:36:37.170 --> 00:36:40.050
But that's that'd be a great question that I'd love to throw in to you too.
00:36:40.130 --> 00:36:40.930
What about addiction?
00:36:41.090 --> 00:36:54.130
Like what about chronic alcohol addiction or chronic drug addiction to help people with that's what yeah, that's kind of there is a protocol, yeah, but we we don't use it because it's not covered under VAC, but for for for uh addiction, right?
00:36:54.210 --> 00:36:54.530
Yeah.
00:36:54.769 --> 00:36:56.530
So some clinics offer it.
00:36:56.610 --> 00:37:00.769
We we currently don't offer that, but we can provide uh advice on that.
00:37:01.010 --> 00:37:11.330
But but right now, if you're you know getting back on the veteran slope here, if if you're a veteran, you know, you would be sent to a one of the uh you know addiction centers.
00:37:11.809 --> 00:37:18.289
But but addictions is one that there's a lot of, you know, like I said, every month there's a new protocol coming out for something.
00:37:18.450 --> 00:37:28.610
But for me, I think the one it's that exciting is the the uh Parkinson and the and the early signs of dementia in the aging brain.
00:37:28.769 --> 00:37:32.370
And yeah, I think that would be that'd be a good milestone.
00:37:32.530 --> 00:37:33.250
Can you imagine that?
00:37:33.570 --> 00:37:34.130
Oh amazing.
00:37:34.450 --> 00:37:36.850
And do you guys treat actively for OCD here?
00:37:37.170 --> 00:37:37.650
No, we don't.
00:37:37.890 --> 00:37:37.970
No.
00:37:38.289 --> 00:37:40.530
No, no, but that's another capability of this as well.
00:37:40.610 --> 00:37:41.730
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:41.890 --> 00:37:50.050
You know, we we're we're just focusing right now on uh on on kind of the trauma side of the house, you know, for PTSD, anxiety, depression.
00:37:50.289 --> 00:37:54.050
But if you're a like we treat non-veterans here as well.
00:37:54.210 --> 00:37:55.490
Yeah, just not veterans.
00:37:55.809 --> 00:38:05.410
Like if you want to come in here, you know, your blogging's off the street and you've got a you've had uh you were in a traffic accident, you have terrible trauma, you can come through our program.
00:38:05.570 --> 00:38:11.650
We do we see a lot of that and a lot of uh you know requests about ketamine therapy, which we run here.
00:38:11.730 --> 00:38:12.930
We're about to launch that.
00:38:13.170 --> 00:38:15.650
We're making that announcement uh tomorrow.
00:38:15.809 --> 00:38:17.410
And so that's an exciting phase.
00:38:17.570 --> 00:38:27.330
So we've started with the TMS, we're gonna launch the ketamine as next, and then we're also launching EMDR, which is another, you know, you met Dr.
00:38:27.410 --> 00:38:30.130
Vinay and his technology and his big brain over there.
00:38:30.289 --> 00:38:30.530
Yeah.
00:38:30.690 --> 00:38:42.289
I hope he's not listening, but uh and uh you know, so he wants to launch other modalities of uh of uh therapy to support not only veterans, but you know, anyway.
00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:49.730
Oh, that I think yeah, I mean it would be interesting to see it for anyone that would want to be able to see if they could just help themselves in a different way, right?
00:38:50.050 --> 00:38:50.530
It's pretty cool.
00:38:50.930 --> 00:38:52.130
We get a lot of queries, yeah.
00:38:52.210 --> 00:38:52.610
It's amazing.
00:38:52.850 --> 00:38:54.050
Could it make me a better basketball player?
00:38:54.289 --> 00:38:56.370
You think uh would it make me taller?
00:38:56.530 --> 00:38:56.769
No.
00:38:56.930 --> 00:38:57.570
No, okay.
00:38:58.450 --> 00:38:58.769
Oh well.
00:38:59.010 --> 00:39:08.530
Uh true it is like one thing I I guess I I forgot to really ask is like do you when you're in there, you have the helm your magneto helmet on there.
00:39:09.250 --> 00:39:11.410
Yeah, yeah, that's what it looked like.
00:39:11.650 --> 00:39:13.650
But you does do you feel anything?
00:39:13.730 --> 00:39:14.930
And are there different settings?
00:39:15.010 --> 00:39:18.850
Like, is there like oh we gotta go a little higher, or is it all just one setting?
00:39:19.170 --> 00:39:25.490
Well, it depends upon when you when you first go in there, they do a motor threshold test on you, which sets the standard.
00:39:25.970 --> 00:39:28.130
Motor threshold that sounds aggressive.
00:39:28.450 --> 00:39:29.010
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:29.570 --> 00:39:31.650
All it is, it's uh it's a reflex reaction.
00:39:31.890 --> 00:39:32.130
Okay.
00:39:32.289 --> 00:39:34.289
So so they stimulate that part of the brain.
00:39:34.530 --> 00:39:34.769
Okay.
00:39:34.930 --> 00:39:38.610
And then when you when you see your hand go like this, see you see how my hand's going?
00:39:38.769 --> 00:39:39.010
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:39.090 --> 00:39:41.410
It goes like that, you've you've reached the motor threshold.
00:39:41.650 --> 00:39:41.730
Right.
00:39:42.050 --> 00:39:48.289
And then the technician, Ilian, the other smart guy in the building, he's gonna set the the settings based on that.
00:39:48.610 --> 00:39:49.090
Oh, okay.
00:39:49.330 --> 00:39:50.610
Yeah, interesting.
00:39:51.010 --> 00:39:56.450
So they find that and then they dial it to what what the So they can see the okay Yeah.
00:39:56.610 --> 00:39:57.010
Yeah, okay.
00:39:57.170 --> 00:39:57.410
That's cool.
00:39:57.650 --> 00:39:58.050
That is, yeah.
00:39:58.769 --> 00:40:01.250
I thought it was skull thickness, and then you'd be in trouble, Matt, right?
00:40:02.130 --> 00:40:03.330
It's not getting through.
00:40:03.890 --> 00:40:04.690
That is a big brain.
00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:07.010
They're like, we keep turning it up, we're getting nothing.
00:40:07.330 --> 00:40:09.090
It's not a big brain, it's just a thick skull.
00:40:09.250 --> 00:40:12.850
Yeah, but but you know, once they get that, you you're set for the five days.
00:40:13.010 --> 00:40:13.250
Wow.
00:40:13.410 --> 00:40:13.570
Yeah.
00:40:13.730 --> 00:40:16.130
So so they they they they study it there.
00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:23.250
And what like do you find it like if they had to go like through a second round of treatment, everything, like do they find that that changes at all?
00:40:23.410 --> 00:40:26.690
Like once you have treatment, I think it's it's it's it just stays that way.
00:40:26.850 --> 00:40:27.410
Yeah, that's your body.
00:40:27.650 --> 00:40:28.370
That is that is what it is.
00:40:28.530 --> 00:40:30.130
It is your threshold is your threshold.
00:40:30.610 --> 00:40:31.250
Your settings, yeah.
00:40:31.490 --> 00:40:34.530
Yeah, I wasn't sure if like you know, the getting the treatment may change that at all.
00:40:35.090 --> 00:40:38.289
And it's saved in the database, it's saved in your electronic health record.
00:40:38.450 --> 00:40:38.610
Okay.
00:40:38.850 --> 00:40:45.410
So that when you go in, so you come back, you know, for your maintenance phase, you know, we just type in your name and then everything comes up.
00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:51.570
You know, all the data points come up showing that you know, this is where we're at after day five.
00:40:51.650 --> 00:40:55.010
Here was the setting, here was the motor threshold, yeah, and so on.
00:40:55.330 --> 00:41:07.330
And we've put through 40 veterans in the last couple months, and of those 40, everybody has shown major decreases in their PTSD uh rating scale.
00:41:07.970 --> 00:41:11.650
I wanted us to kind of move to talk a little bit about cost and access, Matt.
00:41:11.970 --> 00:41:16.690
Yeah, because I mean for me, I mean, I like one I I like for people to have their own options.
00:41:16.769 --> 00:41:18.769
I think people should be take their own agency on this.
00:41:18.850 --> 00:41:20.210
I don't want to be advocating for anything.
00:41:20.370 --> 00:41:23.010
Yeah, it's like if you if you weigh out the pros and cons.
00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:25.650
It's like our Canadian healthcare system.
00:41:25.809 --> 00:41:32.289
Is this virtual like I mean, outside from from the veteran program that you're trying to run, it's it sounds like it'd be private pretty well.
00:41:32.370 --> 00:41:36.769
Like you'd have to invest in this yourself and it would be very expensive.
00:41:37.490 --> 00:41:44.769
You know, it's it's covered all provinces less UConn do not cover TMS as as a frontline treatment.
00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:45.250
Okay.
00:41:45.410 --> 00:41:45.570
Right.
00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:47.410
So it's it's gonna be user pay.
00:41:47.570 --> 00:41:47.730
Right.
00:41:47.890 --> 00:41:48.050
Right?
00:41:48.130 --> 00:41:49.090
That's that's the bottom line.
00:41:49.250 --> 00:41:53.890
If you're a veteran and you have a PTSD award from Veterans Affairs, it's fully covered.
00:41:53.970 --> 00:41:54.050
Yes.
00:41:54.610 --> 00:41:54.850
Okay.
00:41:54.930 --> 00:41:55.010
Yeah.
00:41:55.170 --> 00:41:56.130
There's no upfront cost.
00:41:56.610 --> 00:41:59.330
It makes sense that you're leading into that demographic specifically.
00:41:59.650 --> 00:42:03.970
Yeah, I just wanted to state that because I get a lot of questions from veterans saying, Well, how much is it going to cost?
00:42:04.050 --> 00:42:06.210
How much, how much am I gonna have to pay you?
00:42:06.289 --> 00:42:07.330
You don't pay me anything, man.
00:42:07.410 --> 00:42:12.289
Yeah, you just come for the treatment and we bill VAC or we bill Medaville Blue Cross, right?
00:42:12.370 --> 00:42:12.610
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:13.730
So that's the bottom line.
00:42:13.809 --> 00:42:28.769
But if you're a civilian, or even if you're a veteran without a disability award, okay, we see a lot of those that don't have a disability award or or are civilian, you can come into the clinic and and you you pay as you go.
00:42:28.930 --> 00:42:33.650
Like some parts of the treatment can be covered by the MSI.
00:42:33.730 --> 00:42:42.210
Okay, okay, and that's usually the the psych assessment would be covered, but some of the treatment parts would be covered by if you have a third-party insurance, yeah.
00:42:42.530 --> 00:42:46.289
They would cover some of that, and the rest would be out of pocket.
00:42:46.930 --> 00:42:48.050
Okay, right.
00:42:48.530 --> 00:42:49.650
And um, yeah.
00:42:49.970 --> 00:42:51.410
Our benefits are pretty good there, Mike.
00:42:51.570 --> 00:42:53.090
Are you gonna you know give it a roll?
00:42:53.330 --> 00:42:54.210
Oh, geez, yeah.
00:42:54.850 --> 00:42:56.289
I got a slot next.
00:42:56.690 --> 00:42:57.650
You're in next, Mike.
00:42:57.890 --> 00:42:59.330
Coming up next in the afternoon playing.
00:42:59.410 --> 00:43:00.289
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:43:00.610 --> 00:43:01.730
Mike reprograms himself.
00:43:02.370 --> 00:43:02.690
Yeah.
00:43:02.850 --> 00:43:13.490
No, no, I I mean, you know, the the the real thought for me here is like, I mean, if this works and if I mean if you could only help people that were suffering from addiction and stuff, I mean, there's just there's just a lot of hardship out there.
00:43:13.570 --> 00:43:26.769
And if you could give people a way out, I mean it would be it would be interesting to see if in the future there could be pathways to, I mean, a lot of people that are addicted to uh hard drugs or alcohol or even cigarettes, as you said, tobacco, right?
00:43:26.930 --> 00:43:28.610
You know, they don't want to be addicted.
00:43:28.850 --> 00:43:31.330
Like, you know, they do not want to do this anymore, right?
00:43:31.490 --> 00:43:35.250
I used to smoke and I I wasn't proud I smoked a day after I was 30 years old, right?
00:43:35.490 --> 00:43:40.130
When as soon as it started the moment it started affecting my health, I was like, I want off this.
00:43:40.210 --> 00:43:41.730
And you know, I I don't smoke anymore.
00:43:41.809 --> 00:43:45.170
I have smoked in years, but still, it it's a hard thing to quit.
00:43:45.330 --> 00:43:45.490
Right?
00:43:45.890 --> 00:43:46.610
It is hard for it.
00:43:47.010 --> 00:44:03.890
It seems like they're like it almost seems like the if we had some like if we incorporate it into the provincial healthcare system that it could act as a preventative type of health care, uh, you know, if we have people who are addicted to hard drugs, well it's hard for them to work.
00:44:03.970 --> 00:44:05.809
But if they weren't, maybe they become contrasting.
00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:13.170
It sounds like a Stanley Kubrick film, you know, like you know, it's like the guy's not doing so well, you put them in the uh in the seat and and and reprogram them.
00:44:13.330 --> 00:44:24.370
But but yeah, like sort of i i if if you had a if they could have agency over themselves to participate in a program to to maybe potentially get themselves out of this rut.
00:44:24.610 --> 00:44:26.050
Because you know, it's a cycle, right?
00:44:26.130 --> 00:44:33.330
Like crime or uh uh addictions or poverty, you know, it's sometimes so many people go out and then they just come right back in, sort of speak, right?
00:44:33.570 --> 00:44:36.530
They're stuck in these ruts their entire lives, and it must suck.
00:44:37.010 --> 00:44:37.250
Yeah.
00:44:38.130 --> 00:44:39.330
If you go downtown Vancouver.
00:44:40.130 --> 00:44:42.050
You can see you can see it's a very good idea.
00:44:42.289 --> 00:44:45.809
So sad requirements I've watched so many videos of what's going on there right now.
00:44:45.890 --> 00:44:48.690
And I mean Halifax, we have we have that happening here as well.
00:44:48.930 --> 00:44:50.769
I mean, uh symptoms of it, absolutely.
00:44:50.850 --> 00:44:51.090
Yeah.
00:44:51.650 --> 00:45:03.410
That's what I'm thinking, is like, you know, really it I feel like someone should be lobbying the government, whether it be federal or provincial, to like look at this as preventative health care.
00:45:03.730 --> 00:45:15.010
I mean, obviously reactive too, but like it should be, you know, if you talk to, you know, I'm not gonna you know mention names here because of that, but uh a lot of people feel it should be a first-line treatment option for people, right?
00:45:15.250 --> 00:45:22.930
So you go into your uh your your GP, you get a referral, you see a psychiatrist, and then they refer you into a program, you know, such as this.
00:45:23.490 --> 00:45:23.650
Yeah.
00:45:24.050 --> 00:45:27.890
Don't put somebody on 20 medications, you know, just let them get the treatment they need.
00:45:28.210 --> 00:45:30.050
Yeah, I think that's what I'm kind of like getting at.
00:45:30.210 --> 00:45:36.690
It's like, you know, we're gonna we're gonna pay for all the medications, like through MSI, I mean some whatever coverages and whatever.
00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:49.730
But I mean, you know, we're gonna pay for a lot of these things, these other treatments, and that's uh kind of goes back to my other question where I asked way before where it was like if people are willing to try something, like why don't we let people just try things and pay for it?
00:45:50.130 --> 00:45:51.570
I I think from my fixes them.
00:45:51.730 --> 00:45:55.010
Yeah, from my perspective, I think it's a cost analysis baby problem.
00:45:55.250 --> 00:45:57.410
Like it's very costly, as you can see.
00:45:57.570 --> 00:45:59.250
There's a lot of equipment in here.
00:45:59.490 --> 00:46:01.570
Yeah, there's a lot of you know high-end equipment.
00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:06.530
High-end equipment, it requires a I mean a neurosurgeon basically to to operate.
00:46:07.010 --> 00:46:07.330
Right, right.
00:46:07.410 --> 00:46:11.970
And then you've got psychiatry, you've got I gotta pay, I gotta keep the lights on.
00:46:12.130 --> 00:46:12.289
Okay.
00:46:12.530 --> 00:46:12.610
Yeah.
00:46:12.769 --> 00:46:16.130
I gotta pay the front staff, I gotta pay the nurse that's gonna do the ketamine.
00:46:16.370 --> 00:46:16.530
Right.
00:46:16.690 --> 00:46:20.370
You know, you gotta you look at all of these things, people say, Oh, yeah, you guys are making tons of money.
00:46:20.450 --> 00:46:23.010
Well, no, my my our overhead's pretty high.
00:46:23.170 --> 00:46:23.330
Yeah.
00:46:23.490 --> 00:46:25.890
You know, this this nice room, these these chairs.
00:46:26.050 --> 00:46:26.210
Yeah.
00:46:26.450 --> 00:46:28.769
These chairs were bought for patient comfort.
00:46:29.090 --> 00:46:30.370
You know, yeah, I didn't get them.
00:46:30.690 --> 00:46:32.690
I think you said those machines were a few hundred thousand dollars apiece for the phone.
00:46:32.850 --> 00:46:33.250
That's right, right?
00:46:33.330 --> 00:46:33.410
Yeah.
00:46:33.570 --> 00:46:34.130
Like, my gosh.
00:46:34.450 --> 00:46:35.730
But that's no different than a hospital.
00:46:35.970 --> 00:46:37.730
But but an MRI machine costs?
00:46:38.289 --> 00:46:47.890
I think there was a study done in British Columbia where they kind of looked at what would it cost to get these things as frontline, first line treatment, and and the cost was way too high.
00:46:48.130 --> 00:46:48.289
Yeah.
00:46:48.690 --> 00:46:50.210
But it doesn't even have to like I don't know.
00:46:50.289 --> 00:46:55.730
I'm guessing I guess it have to be first line, but I mean, you know, once someone's been through rehab three times, why don't we give it a go?
00:46:56.450 --> 00:46:57.250
You know what I mean?
00:46:57.330 --> 00:46:59.330
Like yeah, I yeah, I'd rather have that person.
00:46:59.730 --> 00:47:00.450
I do agree with you, Matt.
00:47:00.530 --> 00:47:06.050
Like I there is a certain value or price tag on human life that you know if it it can make that person human again.
00:47:06.450 --> 00:47:15.090
But but from the healthcare perspective, you know, our our ERs are over overloaded, you know, 24 hours, 36 hour wait to see an emergency room die.
00:47:15.650 --> 00:47:21.410
So we take money away from that to go to this, then it's just a f it's it's another gap in the system.
00:47:21.570 --> 00:47:24.450
So there's only you know, healthcare's expensive.
00:47:24.769 --> 00:47:29.809
It's really expensive to provide, you know, yes, the the the standard that Canadians want.
00:47:30.530 --> 00:47:32.050
And it's gonna cost money.
00:47:32.289 --> 00:47:36.130
I and and you know, and I'm not I'm not like I think we're on the same page here, so I'm not being argumentative.
00:47:36.450 --> 00:47:38.210
Oh no, I like be the devil's advocate.
00:47:38.530 --> 00:47:51.890
Yeah, but here's the other thing is you know why the the I I not that long, you know, I played football, so I was spent many times in the in the ER because of broken limbs, and obviously broken limbs get looked at last because you're not an emergency.
00:47:52.050 --> 00:47:52.370
Right.
00:47:52.690 --> 00:47:59.970
And how many people I when I'm sitting around in those rooms for ten hours, I'm looking around, how many people probably have an addiction problem?
00:48:00.050 --> 00:48:01.809
That's probably the big part of the reason why they're there.
00:48:01.890 --> 00:48:02.050
Yeah.
00:48:02.289 --> 00:48:08.610
So I mean, yeah, we have long waits, but maybe we could you know shorten those if we had uh problems for those people.
00:48:08.850 --> 00:48:10.130
Or sorry, solutions for those people.
00:48:10.370 --> 00:48:15.170
I would hope that you could rehabilitate criminals to some extent, too, so they could get back in a modern society, right?
00:48:15.250 --> 00:48:15.890
I mean, probably.
00:48:16.289 --> 00:48:18.850
You know, because I mean uh think of the PSTD in jails, right?
00:48:19.330 --> 00:48:23.970
I mean, people might go in there for a mine or a fence and come out, you know, now they can't work anymore.
00:48:24.130 --> 00:48:24.210
Right.
00:48:24.530 --> 00:48:26.210
Now they can't you know what I mean?
00:48:26.850 --> 00:48:27.890
It's a political decision.
00:48:28.050 --> 00:48:28.130
Yeah.
00:48:28.289 --> 00:48:29.250
You know, this is it really is.
00:48:29.490 --> 00:48:30.850
Yeah, it's uh it's all about politics.
00:48:31.010 --> 00:48:33.410
And where where are we gonna you know, where's the fire today?
00:48:33.490 --> 00:48:34.850
Where are we gonna throw money at?
00:48:35.410 --> 00:48:39.570
And that's the biggest thing is is that and this this is privately funded.
00:48:39.650 --> 00:48:41.010
You know, there's no government money in here.
00:48:41.490 --> 00:48:49.170
We do see other countries that are leading us in are leading in other like do you see this type of uh uh therapy uh uh like in Sweden or Norway?
00:48:49.330 --> 00:48:50.690
I'm just throwing out a few countries there.
00:48:51.410 --> 00:48:52.690
It's very popular in the Middle East.
00:48:52.930 --> 00:48:53.010
Yes.
00:48:53.330 --> 00:48:54.130
Yeah, because there's a lot of money.
00:48:54.450 --> 00:48:55.650
Yeah, Middle East is very big.
00:48:55.730 --> 00:48:55.809
Yeah.
00:48:55.970 --> 00:48:56.050
Yeah.
00:48:56.289 --> 00:48:56.930
Vinay in there.
00:48:57.250 --> 00:48:57.970
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:48:59.170 --> 00:49:00.530
Where whereabouts in the Middle East is the same.
00:49:00.690 --> 00:49:00.930
Dubai.
00:49:01.170 --> 00:49:01.410
Dubai.
00:49:02.130 --> 00:49:03.890
Okay, so that's not the wealthier nations.
00:49:04.289 --> 00:49:05.170
Yeah, the wealthier nations.
00:49:05.330 --> 00:49:05.410
Yeah.
00:49:05.650 --> 00:49:08.130
India, there's a lot of demand in India right now for these.
00:49:08.530 --> 00:49:13.330
Well, like my kid didn't do good on his uh math test and the uh send them off to TMS.
00:49:14.850 --> 00:49:15.650
The new grounding.
00:49:15.890 --> 00:49:16.370
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:49:16.530 --> 00:49:16.769
That's right.
00:49:17.010 --> 00:49:17.890
No computer time to do it.
00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:19.170
No more fighting after school, Mike.
00:49:20.289 --> 00:49:20.450
Yeah.
00:49:20.690 --> 00:49:23.730
So I I that's I yeah, I mean, I I can see by the Middle East, though.
00:49:23.809 --> 00:49:28.850
I mean, obviously, because there's it seems like there's pretty much constantly war there, so there's probably a lot of like drama going on.
00:49:29.250 --> 00:49:30.450
In the US, it's very popular.
00:49:30.610 --> 00:49:32.610
There's a lot of TMS clinics in the U.S.
00:49:32.769 --> 00:49:33.410
It's very popular.
00:49:33.730 --> 00:49:33.890
Right.
00:49:33.970 --> 00:49:35.490
So Canada's a bit behind, you think?
00:49:36.610 --> 00:49:37.250
I don't want to say.
00:49:39.970 --> 00:49:43.010
I don't want to know which way I lean politically.
00:49:43.490 --> 00:49:44.130
Sure, yeah, yeah.
00:49:44.610 --> 00:49:47.410
But I'm leaning my head the uh this uh to the right.
00:49:47.970 --> 00:49:57.809
Yeah, well, but I mean, even still, it's like I think even with that, I don't I don't think this should be a political thing because it's uh I don't think it should be politicized at all.
00:49:58.130 --> 00:49:59.410
I mean I'm but healthcare is.
00:49:59.650 --> 00:49:59.970
Oh, absolutely.
00:50:01.490 --> 00:50:13.490
Unfortunately, it is so at the end of the day, like I said, you know, it it's it boils down to funding, which boils down to you know the division where are we going to spend our money this year from the annual budget that the federal government gave us.
00:50:13.650 --> 00:50:16.370
And you know, do I spend it on this or security?
00:50:16.450 --> 00:50:20.130
Do I spend it on new infrastructure or do we spend it on healthcare?
00:50:20.370 --> 00:50:20.450
Yeah.
00:50:20.690 --> 00:50:23.490
You know, those are political decisions on how the money's spent.
00:50:23.970 --> 00:50:39.490
I think all governments don't because so this is like a shot at all of them, because it's like I don't think all I think so far I've not seen really a government take as serious preventative health care as much as it should be and don't value in what it can be.
00:50:39.650 --> 00:50:50.769
I know it gets scary spending, you know, ten doll today, but if it spending ten dollars today saves you 40 down the road, I I and I know that's like it is, it's down the road.
00:50:50.850 --> 00:50:55.410
You don't see it, but fifty years from now we could have a sus be a society that's a lot more functioning.
00:50:56.130 --> 00:50:58.769
When we make capital investments, that's exactly what they ask of us.
00:50:59.010 --> 00:51:03.809
They say, you know, trust the future that'll be more prosperous if we invest in A, B, C, right?
00:51:04.130 --> 00:51:06.450
And uh but yeah, we very much need to see.
00:51:06.610 --> 00:51:07.090
I agree.
00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:08.690
Like I think we're all in agreement here.
00:51:08.769 --> 00:51:11.330
So we're almost just kind of saying the same thing around a circle.
00:51:11.730 --> 00:51:17.970
I I I think if you look back 20, 30 years, can Canada was perceived as the best healthcare system in the world.
00:51:18.370 --> 00:51:18.450
Yes.
00:51:18.690 --> 00:51:19.570
And we remember those days.
00:51:19.890 --> 00:51:20.210
We've dropped.
00:51:20.530 --> 00:51:30.690
Yeah, we've dropped in you know, I don't know where we are in the ranking scale, but uh we were envied by the world for this very you know you know progressive healthcare system.
00:51:31.090 --> 00:51:33.170
You do have people from the Middle East coming here and they're shocked.
00:51:33.490 --> 00:51:34.690
Because I mean, well, what?
00:51:34.769 --> 00:51:36.610
You don't have doctors like everywhere?
00:51:36.930 --> 00:51:39.250
Like it's not easy to get health care.
00:51:39.730 --> 00:51:40.210
What do you mean?
00:51:40.450 --> 00:51:42.930
And uh, you know, so there's such a strain on the system now.
00:51:43.090 --> 00:51:43.170
Yeah.
00:51:43.410 --> 00:51:45.410
For the absolute basics, my partner's a nurse.
00:51:45.490 --> 00:51:49.570
So I mean the calls she receives, she's with 811, so it's a telehealth position.
00:51:49.650 --> 00:51:51.650
So the call she receives every day, you know.
00:51:51.970 --> 00:51:52.930
I mean, people really need help.
00:51:53.170 --> 00:51:53.650
Yeah, they do.
00:51:54.130 --> 00:51:54.370
Right?
00:51:54.450 --> 00:51:57.250
So yeah, so I guess moving on.
00:51:57.410 --> 00:52:00.050
So we have to get to our fun questions around.
00:52:00.130 --> 00:52:01.809
These are our fun and philosophical questions.
00:52:01.970 --> 00:52:07.170
Before we do, you know, just a plug for brainstem, how can they check it out if they're interested here in Halifax?
00:52:07.330 --> 00:52:09.010
I I really appreciated your time, Richard.
00:52:09.090 --> 00:52:09.410
Here we go.
00:52:09.570 --> 00:52:10.850
We have seven locations across the country.
00:52:11.170 --> 00:52:11.809
Well, soon to be eight.
00:52:12.050 --> 00:52:12.450
Soon to be eight.
00:52:12.530 --> 00:52:12.930
Soon to be eight.
00:52:13.090 --> 00:52:16.690
Yeah, so we've got uh we have two on the West Coast, Vancouver.
00:52:16.850 --> 00:52:23.090
We opened in Calgary, we got one in Edmonton, Kingston, Perth, Ontario, Ottawa, and here in Halifax.
00:52:23.170 --> 00:52:23.330
Cool.
00:52:23.650 --> 00:52:29.170
And we're opening up in I can't disclose the places yet, you know, it hasn't been announced, but two other locations coming up.
00:52:29.650 --> 00:52:30.050
Amazing.
00:52:30.370 --> 00:52:31.410
I bet you I could guess.
00:52:31.570 --> 00:52:33.730
Think about where there's a large military presence.
00:52:33.970 --> 00:52:35.970
Yeah, that's you the man.
00:52:36.850 --> 00:52:38.370
You're the you're the man.
00:52:39.330 --> 00:52:44.130
Goes where the money is or where the just one one thing before we we we go on to the next phase.
00:52:44.289 --> 00:52:45.970
We we also do a lot of research.
00:52:46.050 --> 00:52:48.289
Yeah, and research is extremely important.
00:52:48.450 --> 00:52:48.610
Yeah.
00:52:48.850 --> 00:53:01.490
And the Royal Canadian Legion, BC UConn Command Headquarters, that's a big mouthful, gave us a generous donation to do a PTSD chronic pain study off the West Coast in our Syria location.
00:53:02.130 --> 00:53:04.850
And we just launched it a couple weeks ago.
00:53:05.090 --> 00:53:18.930
And already, you know, we've you know, we we we put cohorts through the program of five veterans, five veterans, five veterans, and already we're seeing reduced chronic pain issues in our veterans after the five-day protocol.
00:53:19.170 --> 00:53:20.130
Can you imagine that?
00:53:20.530 --> 00:53:24.850
You know, one of the biggest issues facing veterans is chronic pain.
00:53:25.090 --> 00:53:30.690
And we're gonna present our data, you know, scientific data to big forums this fall.
00:53:30.930 --> 00:53:33.809
One of them will be here in Halifax, and we're very excited about that.
00:53:33.890 --> 00:53:41.570
And we've got some other ideas about operator syndrome and other things like that that we want to, you know, cost money.
00:53:41.650 --> 00:53:46.930
It costs a lot of money to do a research program because you have to hire an ethics board, you got to hire scientists.
00:53:47.090 --> 00:53:47.970
It's not cheap.
00:53:48.130 --> 00:53:54.530
It's it's it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to run a very good quality, you know, ethically driven research study.
00:53:54.610 --> 00:53:55.730
So I just wanted to throw that in.
00:53:55.809 --> 00:53:55.970
Thanks.
00:53:56.210 --> 00:53:56.690
No, thank you.
00:53:56.850 --> 00:54:02.450
Yeah, and uh yeah, so uh brainstem, brainstem, S T I stimulation.
00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:03.250
Thank you.
00:54:03.570 --> 00:54:03.970
So yeah.
00:54:05.250 --> 00:54:07.490
If you want to know more about the organization, just go online.
00:54:07.650 --> 00:54:09.890
Brain STEM is pretty easy to find, actually.
00:54:10.130 --> 00:54:13.490
It's right at the top of uh the web searches when I when I was doing my research.
00:54:13.650 --> 00:54:14.769
So, Matt, let's jump in.
00:54:16.450 --> 00:54:21.170
So we got we got six fun questions, and then you know, a last call question we ask all of our guests.
00:54:21.250 --> 00:54:22.769
So, Matt, go ahead, question one, bud.
00:54:23.010 --> 00:54:33.090
All right, so do you think that it would be a good idea for Canada to follow other NATO members such as Denmark and Sweden in conscription to the Army?
00:54:33.490 --> 00:54:34.610
So we're coming.
00:54:34.930 --> 00:54:35.730
These are deep heavy questions.
00:54:35.890 --> 00:54:37.809
Well, these I wasn't expecting this, man.
00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:39.809
Like you didn't tell me this.
00:54:40.370 --> 00:54:41.730
You did not tell me this when we started.
00:54:42.450 --> 00:54:43.170
My coffee's cold now.
00:54:43.250 --> 00:54:44.769
I gotta go get another cup.
00:54:45.490 --> 00:54:45.890
Yes.
00:54:46.130 --> 00:54:46.690
Yeah, yeah?
00:54:46.850 --> 00:54:47.330
Yeah, okay.
00:54:47.490 --> 00:54:48.850
Yeah, I I do think so.
00:54:49.090 --> 00:54:49.330
Okay.
00:54:49.490 --> 00:54:49.650
Yeah.
00:54:49.809 --> 00:54:52.050
And I'm not saying this because I'm old now, but I do agree.
00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:52.450
Yeah.
00:54:52.610 --> 00:54:52.690
Yeah.
00:54:52.930 --> 00:54:53.010
Yeah.
00:54:53.250 --> 00:54:53.970
You're out of it now.
00:54:54.130 --> 00:54:54.210
Yeah.
00:54:54.450 --> 00:54:56.289
I I I put my three years in, I'm good.
00:54:56.610 --> 00:54:58.930
I could still probably be young enough to get into it.
00:54:59.010 --> 00:55:01.410
I think I might have a couple years or two left, but not yet.
00:55:01.570 --> 00:55:01.650
Yeah.
00:55:01.890 --> 00:55:03.250
So I'm almost ready for this.
00:55:03.330 --> 00:55:03.490
Yeah.
00:55:03.809 --> 00:55:03.970
Okay.
00:55:04.210 --> 00:55:05.730
So that that that's a good great question.
00:55:05.809 --> 00:55:05.890
Yeah.
00:55:06.050 --> 00:55:06.930
And that that's a good question.
00:55:07.410 --> 00:55:08.370
Why do you think that?
00:55:09.250 --> 00:55:16.769
I I think that boy, this is really putting pressure on me here now to give us uh give us something.
00:55:17.330 --> 00:55:26.289
I I think we need to bring people in, these young kids, and show them some discipline, some organization in their lives.
00:55:26.610 --> 00:55:27.010
Teamwork.
00:55:27.250 --> 00:55:27.650
Teamwork.
00:55:27.809 --> 00:55:27.970
Yeah.
00:55:28.370 --> 00:55:30.130
Understanding what our country's about.
00:55:30.530 --> 00:55:32.289
You know, nobody knows what our country's about.
00:55:32.769 --> 00:55:35.170
You walk out there, ask somebody where where's Alberta?
00:55:35.250 --> 00:55:37.890
And they're gonna say, I don't what are you talking about?
00:55:38.050 --> 00:55:39.650
Where's the capital of Canada?
00:55:39.970 --> 00:55:40.210
Yeah.
00:55:40.530 --> 00:55:41.250
Halifax?
00:55:41.330 --> 00:55:41.490
Yeah.
00:55:41.650 --> 00:55:42.450
I don't you know what I mean.
00:55:42.690 --> 00:55:48.370
So I think if we brought them in, we'd give them a period of professional development well beyond what they're learning in school.
00:55:48.450 --> 00:55:50.050
I don't know what they're learning in school anymore.
00:55:50.289 --> 00:55:55.410
You know, I you know, my kids are you know in their 30s now, so I I think it would be good from that.
00:55:55.490 --> 00:55:56.850
It's a generational issue.
00:55:56.930 --> 00:56:00.370
And I think that's and to be clear to people listening, it's not this is not send people to war.
00:56:00.530 --> 00:56:05.170
This just means have a have a military establishment for for everyone that you serve.
00:56:05.330 --> 00:56:05.490
Absolutely.
00:56:05.730 --> 00:56:08.769
You learn about your country, you you understand what being a citizen is about.
00:56:09.170 --> 00:56:09.890
Could be a reservist, right?
00:56:09.970 --> 00:56:10.050
Right.
00:56:10.289 --> 00:56:11.250
Could simply just be a reservist.
00:56:11.970 --> 00:56:12.210
Absolutely.
00:56:12.610 --> 00:56:12.930
Two years.
00:56:13.090 --> 00:56:13.170
Yeah.
00:56:13.490 --> 00:56:15.650
Two years conscription and off they go.
00:56:15.809 --> 00:56:19.809
And it and and that way, if stuff goes down, you have a lot of people that are ready to go.
00:56:19.890 --> 00:56:19.970
Yeah.
00:56:20.130 --> 00:56:20.289
Right.
00:56:20.370 --> 00:56:30.050
And that's like you hope it never happens, but if it does, right, you know, better than the best place to be thrown in there on day one with uh with a helmet put on your head and not knowing how to hold a gun.
00:56:30.210 --> 00:56:30.289
Right.
00:56:30.450 --> 00:56:30.530
Yeah.
00:56:30.690 --> 00:56:32.370
You know, so the world is a dangerous place.
00:56:32.930 --> 00:56:33.330
Absolutely.
00:56:33.410 --> 00:56:34.930
Like it's yeah, it's out of control.
00:56:35.330 --> 00:56:36.050
Okay, that was easy.
00:56:36.210 --> 00:56:37.090
Let's go on to number two.
00:56:37.410 --> 00:56:38.690
Okay, give me give me number two.
00:56:39.010 --> 00:56:41.730
So so so we wrote these, so you get a tough one and a buffer.
00:56:41.890 --> 00:56:42.050
Right.
00:56:42.130 --> 00:56:42.850
Okay, give me a buffer one.
00:56:43.809 --> 00:56:44.370
Take a breath.
00:56:44.610 --> 00:56:48.289
So uh what's your number one go-to for relaxation?
00:56:48.450 --> 00:56:51.170
So when you're when Rich is just cooling out, TMS, no.
00:56:52.610 --> 00:56:53.410
I don't do it again.
00:56:53.809 --> 00:56:54.370
You academic.
00:56:56.289 --> 00:56:57.010
Oh, wow.
00:56:57.250 --> 00:56:57.410
Yeah.
00:56:57.570 --> 00:56:59.890
Well, that's uh I I train a lot.
00:57:00.210 --> 00:57:01.970
Okay, yeah, I do a lot of physical fitness.
00:57:02.370 --> 00:57:02.690
Okay, cool.
00:57:02.769 --> 00:57:03.170
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:03.250 --> 00:57:03.730
You look fit.
00:57:03.890 --> 00:57:05.650
Do you mind asking how I'm 70.
00:57:05.890 --> 00:57:06.130
70?
00:57:06.210 --> 00:57:07.330
Yeah, thank you for helping with that.
00:57:07.650 --> 00:57:09.250
Could you tell the audience how young I look?
00:57:09.330 --> 00:57:11.170
No, no, it's a 69.
00:57:11.410 --> 00:57:12.050
No, I'm just joking.
00:57:12.210 --> 00:57:13.090
No, I'm just joking.
00:57:13.250 --> 00:57:15.250
No, you you're very healthy looking.
00:57:15.410 --> 00:57:16.690
No, I'm just joking.
00:57:16.850 --> 00:57:20.210
And uh uh uh no, you look you look very young and spry.
00:57:20.530 --> 00:57:22.610
I would, you know, not Peggy was a 70-year-old.
00:57:22.930 --> 00:57:23.809
How old do I look?
00:57:24.050 --> 00:57:25.410
I was gonna say 42.
00:57:25.570 --> 00:57:26.450
Oh, you're right on the mic.
00:57:26.769 --> 00:57:27.890
Nailed it! Nailed it.
00:57:28.050 --> 00:57:28.370
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:28.530 --> 00:57:28.850
Wow.
00:57:29.010 --> 00:57:30.289
He was doing his research on me probably.
00:57:31.410 --> 00:57:32.450
He's like, I didn't even know what this is.
00:57:32.530 --> 00:57:34.130
He leaned into some of his Intel buddies.
00:57:34.530 --> 00:57:34.769
That's right.
00:57:35.730 --> 00:57:37.010
Tell me all everything about this clan.
00:57:37.330 --> 00:57:37.570
Yeah.
00:57:37.730 --> 00:57:38.050
Yeah.
00:57:38.289 --> 00:57:38.930
Okay, cool.
00:57:39.090 --> 00:57:40.610
All right, so question number three.
00:57:40.850 --> 00:57:41.490
Another tough one.
00:57:41.650 --> 00:57:43.650
So am I getting all the tough ones that I read to him?
00:57:43.970 --> 00:57:44.530
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
00:57:44.769 --> 00:57:45.330
Okay, let's go.
00:57:45.490 --> 00:57:57.410
All right, in the movie The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, the main character Joel learns that his ex-girlfriend, Clementine, undergoes an experimental medical procedure to erase all memories of him.
00:57:58.210 --> 00:58:01.650
So he goes and does the same surgery to himself.
00:58:01.970 --> 00:58:08.450
Do you think that some memories are too or so painful that it is best to just remove them?
00:58:10.930 --> 00:58:11.570
That's deep.
00:58:11.809 --> 00:58:12.530
Isn't that deep?
00:58:12.610 --> 00:58:13.250
Yeah, that's deep.
00:58:13.410 --> 00:58:14.050
It's a beautiful movie.
00:58:14.130 --> 00:58:14.690
Have you ever seen it?
00:58:16.050 --> 00:58:19.250
If you ever get a chance, eternal sunshine of the spotless mile with Jim Ferry.
00:58:19.490 --> 00:58:22.050
It's it's it's his best performance, one of the best movies I've ever seen.
00:58:22.210 --> 00:58:23.170
If you ever get a chance to watch it.
00:58:23.330 --> 00:58:23.490
Okay.
00:58:23.570 --> 00:58:23.730
Yeah.
00:58:23.890 --> 00:58:24.450
I'll look for it.
00:58:24.530 --> 00:58:26.930
Yes, I'll I'll tell my wife we've got to watch that movie.
00:58:27.170 --> 00:58:27.490
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:27.809 --> 00:58:29.809
But no, I think memories are there forever.
00:58:29.970 --> 00:58:30.210
Yeah.
00:58:30.370 --> 00:58:30.930
That's my answer.
00:58:31.010 --> 00:58:31.809
So leave them in there.
00:58:31.970 --> 00:58:32.610
Leave them in there.
00:58:32.769 --> 00:58:33.890
You don't want them erased.
00:58:34.050 --> 00:58:34.450
Yeah, okay.
00:58:34.530 --> 00:58:34.610
Yeah.
00:58:34.850 --> 00:58:36.930
Even if painful and terrible and terrifying.
00:58:37.090 --> 00:58:37.250
Yeah.
00:58:37.490 --> 00:58:39.090
It's part of being alive, isn't it?
00:58:39.330 --> 00:58:39.570
Yes.
00:58:39.730 --> 00:58:42.210
That that is a very part of being a human being.
00:58:42.370 --> 00:58:42.610
Yeah.
00:58:42.769 --> 00:58:43.090
Absolutely.
00:58:43.410 --> 00:58:44.850
Separates us from amoebas.
00:58:46.130 --> 00:58:46.769
Just them.
00:58:47.090 --> 00:58:47.650
Just them.
00:58:48.610 --> 00:58:49.330
Great answer.
00:58:49.490 --> 00:58:51.250
Like I said, these are the fun philosophical questions.
00:58:51.809 --> 00:58:52.370
This one's an easy one.
00:58:52.690 --> 00:58:53.490
Number four to you, yeah.
00:58:53.650 --> 00:58:54.850
Yeah, super soft again.
00:58:54.930 --> 00:58:55.090
Yeah.
00:58:55.250 --> 00:58:59.410
Which cartoon character as a child today or present day?
00:58:59.490 --> 00:59:01.330
What was one of your favorite cartoon characters in one?
00:59:01.730 --> 00:59:02.050
Oh man.
00:59:02.289 --> 00:59:04.370
Like I grew up in the 50s and the 60s, right?
00:59:04.690 --> 00:59:05.809
So it was Bugs Bunny.
00:59:05.890 --> 00:59:05.970
Okay.
00:59:06.450 --> 00:59:10.210
The Bugs Bunny uh and uh the Roadrunner series.
00:59:10.289 --> 00:59:10.530
Oh, yeah.
00:59:10.930 --> 00:59:23.250
Every Saturday morning, man, like a bowl of Cheerios sitting in front of the cathode TV, you know, 55, you know, 55 pound little box on my mom and dad's in the living room.
00:59:23.490 --> 00:59:23.809
Awesome.
00:59:23.890 --> 00:59:24.050
Yeah.
00:59:24.210 --> 00:59:24.370
Yeah.
00:59:24.610 --> 00:59:25.090
That's great.
00:59:25.250 --> 00:59:25.650
Awesome.
00:59:26.050 --> 00:59:26.289
All right.
00:59:26.690 --> 00:59:27.250
That's a good memory.
00:59:27.650 --> 00:59:29.010
I would never want to erase that memory.
00:59:29.250 --> 00:59:29.410
Yes.
00:59:30.050 --> 00:59:30.289
Exactly.
00:59:30.530 --> 00:59:30.690
Okay.
00:59:30.769 --> 00:59:32.610
So that goes back to the memory question, right?
00:59:32.690 --> 00:59:32.769
Yeah.
00:59:32.930 --> 00:59:34.289
You don't want to erase those memories.
00:59:34.450 --> 00:59:34.690
Yeah.
00:59:34.930 --> 00:59:35.010
Yeah.
00:59:35.410 --> 00:59:36.289
Highs and lows, man.
00:59:36.530 --> 00:59:36.690
Yeah.
00:59:36.850 --> 00:59:37.970
That's what life's about.
00:59:38.370 --> 00:59:39.970
The lows make you appreciate the highs.
00:59:40.530 --> 00:59:41.090
So there you go.
00:59:41.330 --> 00:59:41.890
Question number five.
00:59:41.970 --> 00:59:42.690
This one's not so hard.
00:59:43.010 --> 00:59:43.170
Okay.
00:59:43.650 --> 00:59:51.250
What is who is one who is one of the most inspirational figures in history that you can think of?
00:59:51.970 --> 00:59:54.130
So in your opinion, most inspirational figure.
00:59:54.930 --> 00:59:55.410
Wow.
00:59:57.170 --> 00:59:59.570
It sounds like a trivial pursuit question.
01:00:00.130 --> 01:00:00.610
Remember that?
01:00:00.690 --> 01:00:01.570
Did you guys play Canadian?
01:00:02.930 --> 01:00:03.650
That's a Canadian main.
01:00:03.890 --> 01:00:04.289
Yeah, I know.
01:00:04.370 --> 01:00:04.850
That's what I mean.
01:00:05.170 --> 01:00:07.570
Played it uh when I was in my last year at university.
01:00:08.850 --> 01:00:15.890
Wow, I I have many characters or many you know historical figures I look to, but you know, I love history.
01:00:15.970 --> 01:00:17.890
History is such an important part of my life as well.
01:00:18.050 --> 01:00:20.610
Kind of I do that for a lot of relaxation as well.
01:00:21.330 --> 01:00:28.050
I would have to say I'm tossing up between a f a few here, but uh I'd say my dad.
01:00:28.610 --> 01:00:29.010
Oh, okay.
01:00:29.330 --> 01:00:29.650
That's nice.
01:00:29.890 --> 01:00:30.370
That's beautiful.
01:00:30.850 --> 01:00:32.850
Yeah, I would say he was a he was a great soldier.
01:00:33.170 --> 01:00:33.490
Amazing.
01:00:33.570 --> 01:00:33.650
Yeah.
01:00:33.730 --> 01:00:35.250
So yeah, he said fought in two wars.
01:00:35.410 --> 01:00:37.090
Two pretty significant wars, so yeah.
01:00:37.490 --> 01:00:40.769
So I would say he had great influence, and I respect everything he did.
01:00:41.090 --> 01:00:41.650
That's amazing.
01:00:41.809 --> 01:00:42.050
Yeah.
01:00:42.289 --> 01:00:43.010
Awesome, good job.
01:00:43.330 --> 01:00:43.809
It's a good thing.
01:00:43.970 --> 01:00:46.450
Like if my favorite author would be Ernest Hemingway.
01:00:46.769 --> 01:00:47.090
Okay, yeah.
01:00:47.250 --> 01:00:47.809
Okay, well, yeah.
01:00:48.289 --> 01:00:50.450
I love love reading Hemingway.
01:00:50.610 --> 01:00:52.610
Like he was, you know, at the time a man's man.
01:00:52.690 --> 01:00:54.530
You know that statement, he's a man's man.
01:00:54.610 --> 01:00:55.490
You couldn't say that nowadays.
01:00:55.650 --> 01:00:55.890
Right.
01:00:55.970 --> 01:00:57.650
You know, you'd get slapped in the face.
01:00:57.730 --> 01:00:59.250
But uh yeah, Hemingway.
01:00:59.330 --> 01:00:59.490
Okay.
01:01:00.370 --> 01:01:00.610
All right.
01:01:00.690 --> 01:01:01.170
Well, there you go.
01:01:01.250 --> 01:01:04.130
There's a there's a personal one and a uh famous one.
01:01:04.370 --> 01:01:04.610
All right.
01:01:05.090 --> 01:01:06.130
Another softball, okay?
01:01:06.370 --> 01:01:07.970
We don't have any more hard, real hard questions.
01:01:08.050 --> 01:01:09.650
Uh so we eat the hard ones are over.
01:01:09.730 --> 01:01:13.570
So yeah, this one is is uh we always have a few silly ones.
01:01:13.650 --> 01:01:14.050
So okay.
01:01:14.210 --> 01:01:17.970
We want you to walk us through your idea of a perfect sandwich.
01:01:18.210 --> 01:01:20.210
Like you made a sandwich, what do you want on it?
01:01:20.289 --> 01:01:21.170
Like as a perfect sandwich.
01:01:21.490 --> 01:01:22.130
What sourdough?
01:01:22.370 --> 01:01:23.010
Sourdough bread.
01:01:23.250 --> 01:01:24.530
Yeah, sourdough bread.
01:01:24.610 --> 01:01:25.090
Yeah.
01:01:25.570 --> 01:01:26.450
For sure.
01:01:26.769 --> 01:01:27.730
No butter.
01:01:28.050 --> 01:01:32.289
Don't don't eat butter because it's part of that health regime I have.
01:01:32.610 --> 01:01:39.570
I would probably put in, you know, tomatoes, lettuce, probably some black olives.
01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:40.370
Okay.
01:01:40.690 --> 01:01:48.450
And then depending upon my mood, I would make it either a vegetarian or I'd probably want some really finely sliced prosciutto Italian ham.
01:01:48.690 --> 01:01:49.090
There you go.
01:01:49.330 --> 01:01:54.450
With some nice cheese and cut my wife is uh tremendous at this.
01:01:54.690 --> 01:01:59.010
Cut it in half, serve it on a nice plate, and enjoy it.
01:01:59.250 --> 01:01:59.970
That sounds beautiful.
01:02:00.050 --> 01:02:00.130
Yeah.
01:02:00.289 --> 01:02:00.850
I'm hungry now.
01:02:01.090 --> 01:02:01.650
Italian sandwich.
01:02:02.130 --> 01:02:03.570
Yeah, Italian sandwich, there you go.
01:02:04.050 --> 01:02:05.090
All right, what what wait though?
01:02:05.170 --> 01:02:06.610
What what kind of cheese though?
01:02:07.330 --> 01:02:08.930
I I like cheddar.
01:02:09.090 --> 01:02:09.650
Old cheddar.
01:02:09.890 --> 01:02:11.170
Oh, yeah, like a five-year-old.
01:02:11.490 --> 01:02:11.809
Oh, 12?
01:02:11.970 --> 01:02:13.330
I'm gonna say like five, even like 12.
01:02:13.650 --> 01:02:16.130
He's going past the Baldur now.
01:02:16.450 --> 01:02:16.850
Oh, it is.
01:02:17.010 --> 01:02:17.970
Yeah, yeah, the Baldursen chest.
01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:21.650
We've ever been to their uh production center down in it's outside of Perth.
01:02:21.809 --> 01:02:22.210
Oh, really?
01:02:22.370 --> 01:02:24.050
Yeah, Balderson, yeah, it's pretty cool.
01:02:24.690 --> 01:02:25.410
That's a it's great, yeah.
01:02:25.490 --> 01:02:25.970
It's great cheese.
01:02:26.130 --> 01:02:28.769
You shouldn't eat the orange cheese because it's got a kind of a dye.
01:02:28.850 --> 01:02:30.130
You should eat the white cheddar.
01:02:30.370 --> 01:02:30.850
Oh, 100%.
01:02:31.090 --> 01:02:31.809
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:02:31.970 --> 01:02:32.289
Like cool.
01:02:32.530 --> 01:02:33.170
That's another story.
01:02:33.570 --> 01:02:34.450
Crystals in your cheddar.
01:02:34.530 --> 01:02:34.769
That's right.
01:02:34.930 --> 01:02:37.410
You want your cheddar so old they can order a scotch?
01:02:39.570 --> 01:02:39.890
Okay.
01:02:40.530 --> 01:02:41.970
Well, we're getting to the last one.
01:02:42.050 --> 01:02:43.809
This is another little bit of a philosophical question.
01:02:43.890 --> 01:02:47.330
We asked this to every guest in the last almost 100 episodes, Matt.
01:02:47.410 --> 01:02:47.809
Go ahead, bud.
01:02:48.130 --> 01:02:49.170
Oh, Mokyah that's right.
01:02:49.250 --> 01:02:49.410
Yeah.
01:02:49.570 --> 01:02:54.850
So our last call is what advice were you given in your life that you would like to share with us?
01:02:55.170 --> 01:02:55.970
And our listeners.
01:02:56.130 --> 01:02:56.370
Yeah.
01:02:56.450 --> 01:02:56.690
Yeah.
01:02:57.010 --> 01:02:57.970
What advice?
01:02:58.210 --> 01:02:59.330
Perseverance.
01:02:59.890 --> 01:03:06.610
I think that's yeah, the advice that was given to me as a young, young kid was to persevere at everything you do.
01:03:06.850 --> 01:03:07.170
Okay.
01:03:07.410 --> 01:03:10.610
No matter how many times you get knocked down, you persevere.
01:03:10.850 --> 01:03:16.210
And that's kind of that's that's a great uh I tell them you get knocked down, you get back up, and you keep going.
01:03:16.530 --> 01:03:18.050
Chumbawumba, tum thumping.
01:03:18.289 --> 01:03:18.850
Remember that song?
01:03:18.930 --> 01:03:19.010
Yeah.
01:03:19.250 --> 01:03:20.769
I get knocked down, but I get up.
01:03:21.170 --> 01:03:21.890
I can't sing very well.
01:03:22.130 --> 01:03:22.210
No.
01:03:22.450 --> 01:03:23.809
You're never going to keep me down, right?
01:03:23.970 --> 01:03:24.210
That's right.
01:03:25.330 --> 01:03:25.809
There you go.
01:03:26.289 --> 01:03:30.130
So remember looking that up in a dictionary after my dad said perseverance.
01:03:30.210 --> 01:03:30.289
Yeah.
01:03:30.530 --> 01:03:31.650
I looked it up and went.
01:03:32.289 --> 01:03:33.010
There it is.
01:03:33.090 --> 01:03:35.890
Now here I am 70 years later, still doing it.
01:03:36.130 --> 01:03:36.530
Awesome.
01:03:36.690 --> 01:03:37.490
Well, thank you, Richard.
01:03:37.570 --> 01:03:38.850
I think this was a great conversation.
01:03:39.170 --> 01:03:41.250
And uh yeah, I hope uh hope we get to meet again.
01:03:41.410 --> 01:03:42.130
This has been fantastic.
01:03:42.370 --> 01:03:42.690
Absolutely.
01:03:43.250 --> 01:03:43.650
Thank you very much.
01:03:44.210 --> 01:03:44.530
Cheers.