WEBVTT
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when I talk with clients about explaining the value, I try to equate it to kind of a financial health checkup.
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I want to do a full diagnostic.
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you're investing into your financial health we're not just looking at an investment strategy.
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We're looking at all the different pieces of their financial life.
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So that's really how I framed the why behind working with me and my model.
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Welcome back to the Kick It Open podcast.
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I'm your host, Shelby Nichol.
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I'm really excited for today's conversation.
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I've invited Julia Lilly to join me today.
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solopreneur, runner of Ryerson Financial.
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And she's worked in the wealth management industry for decades.
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Her background includes serving in the home office of a traditional broker dealer, acting as an advisor in an RIA, and now operating her own fee for planning firm.
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I couldn't think of anyone better to share their perspective on how our industry charges clients for the services it provides, and who could talk about the up and coming revolution of fee for plan or fee for service that we're starting to see.
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there has been a conversation within the wealth management industry about how this industry should charge clients for the value that advisors provide.
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It's a growing area and one that is maybe a little less understood by many of us in the industry.
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I'm so glad that Julia agreed to come on the show.
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Welcome, Julia.
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So welcome, Julia.
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I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today.
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Thank you for being here.
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Thank you, Shelby, for including me.
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I'm excited.
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So, as we get started, one of the things I love to do at the beginning is just to hear from you.
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What is your journey in wealth management?
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I laugh.
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Journey is a very good word because it's been a bit of a journey.
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So I've always worked in finance, but about 10 years ago, I joined a broker dealer doing home office work.
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So I wasn't doing client facing work, but my job there was to better inform the client.
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Financial planning experience and just get a better handle on really what is financial planning and what the client values in the experience.
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I got my CFP.
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I left the broker dealer.
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And then joined an assets under management firm.
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So it was a firm that works with clients based on the assets that we manage and we provide that ongoing relationship.
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About three years ago, we moved to the Houston, Texas area.
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And at that time, I decided I love financial planning, but I wanted the freedom and flexibility.
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So three years ago, I started Ryerson Financial as an advice only flat fee planning firm.
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That is such a different experience than what you saw inside of the broker dealer and even inside of your AUM based firm.
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So just to level set for everyone, let's just Talk about those models because they're really around what is the advice being provided and then what, how are they priced?
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How is that advice priced and charged for?
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Can you kind of talk about those options?
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Yeah.
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I mean, I laugh.
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I'm a student of this space.
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I'm close to it and I find it confusing.
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So I think from a client experience, people looking to partner with an advisor.
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It's overwhelming because the language is nuanced and what does it all mean and how does it actually work in practice?
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There's times when I see models advertised and I have to go and research exactly what that means.
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So there's kind of three primary methods at this point in, the financial planning landscape that I'm aware of.
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It's more that commission based.
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So that is pure transactional.
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Whatever transaction you perform with an advisor, you're paying a commission.
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Sometimes whether you know it or not.
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It could be baked into the financial product that you're purchasing.
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It could be more transparent where it's, you know, just a line item that says in order to buy this particular asset.
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You have to pay this amount of money.
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So that's step one.
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Then there's the assets under management.
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So that's where you're paying to work with an advisor based on the assets that an advisor manages.
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So it's typically in a range from like 1 percent to 3 percent of your assets under management that an And have that kind of on call support and someone watching your portfolio.
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The third model is really this kind of growing space, which is kind of flat fee slash fee for service.
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Where people are trying to say, because it's confusing that even asset under management will say we're a flat fee.
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Because you're not paying that commission, but a true flat fee means it doesn't matter how many assets you have, you pay one very transparent dollar amount for the relationship.
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That's like 10, 000 foot view of the like clean silos, but even within each of those, there's nuances around how people approach delivering the service to clients.
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Absolutely.
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And there's even people who are combining those models, right?
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And they might say for your financial plan, I'm going to charge you a certain fee.
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And then if you want me to manage your assets, I charge an AUM based fee.
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So you see a little bit of blending there.
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Exactly.
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And so there, people say, I'm fee only, but really they're fee based because they're charging the AUM, plus they're potentially selling insurance contracts where they're getting paid a commission for that insurance contract.
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So you chose to go this fee for service, fee only model, whatever words we want to put on that.
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I know it's very confusing.
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So where I landed is that I just wanted more transparency.
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That was one of the big things I learned, even working with the broker dealer.
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When I said I did more of the behind the scenes, the home office support, there are a lot of people who are getting financial planning services and thought I pay nothing.
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For this financial planning journey, whereas they don't realize embedded within each of the products that they own, they are paying a fee to the advisor that's just not transparent.
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So for me, when I started the firm here in Houston, my big motivation was to put the client more in the driver's seat so that they understood what they're paying and then the value that they're getting for it.
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So how has that kind of impacted your clients?
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Because I love that they, that it's so transparent that they can see their value.
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When you describe to them your value and the pricing, how do you say that?
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what is kind of your model there?
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Is there differences in complexity of clients?
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You know, I've tried to make it as simple as possible.
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sometimes that works in my favor.
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Sometimes that doesn't, because you're right, there are nuances and some are more complex than others.
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But when I talk with clients about explaining the value, I try to equate it to kind of a financial health checkup.
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So the reason to do it and to partner with me is that I want to do a full diagnostic.
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You know, you're committing and investing into your financial health so that we're not just looking at an investment strategy.
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We're looking at all the different pieces of their financial life.
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So that's really how I framed the why behind working with me and my model.
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And also one other nuance of the way that I'm approaching my service offering is that I'm advice only.
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which means that I don't require clients to move assets to a specific custodian.
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I'm not going to be the one placing a trade on a client's behalf.
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Instead, I want the client to be in the driver's seat.
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I coach, I provide a lot of strategy.
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We log in together even and look at their dashboard at their custodian of choice.
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But I'm not the gatekeeper to managing that, that investment strategy.
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So interesting.
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So it's a very different kind of psychological model in some ways, right?
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Because I think about being in the broker dealer and it is often around an advisor and almost this sort of parental.
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manner with their clients, the advisor is providing the recommendations, the client is saying yes, in many cases the advisor is the portfolio manager and working as an FA as PM and so they're actually making all those choices on behalf of the client with the client's needs and wants.
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Your philosophy is very much about, it sounds to me like empowering the, the investor and they make the choices.
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They are understanding those choices in a, maybe a different, deeper way.
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That's my goal is to kind of pull back a little bit of the curtain of how all of these financial products work and the why behind choosing different investments.
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My struggle is a lot of times that.
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advisor as a PM, they're just going into models that a client could very well do on their own.
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And they're getting rebalanced within the ETF and more index passive strategy that we've a little bit over engineered and we need to do that.
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And some clients really want to just be able to say, I want to hand it all over.
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I don't even want to look at it.
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I don't want to think about it.
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And when I work with clients.
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I'm just saying, let's put the plan in place and then revisit it again in a year, but really not try to over engineer what's happening on the investment strategy side of things.
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So interesting.
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You know, when we reconnected and I heard about your practice, I thought to myself, gosh, this is really cool.
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This industry has been talking about kind of a movement towards, pay for advice, advice for fees, sort of an approach, but it also sounds really hard.
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Have you found it to be harder, easier than the other models?
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What's your take on that?
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it's an and, you know, some parts are harder and some parts are easier from a compliance standpoint.
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Selfishly, it's a lot easier for me not to have to feel like I'm babysitting a lot of accounts and gives me more peace of mind on going to the independent route where I'm a registered investment advisor, but I'm a solopreneur.
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And so that's a lot of balls to juggle in addition to the operations and everything else.
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So that was for me, one big driver, but then the other piece being to really put the client in the driver's seat so that they feel more ownership One of the biggest struggles in any financial planning Model is the implementation.
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We can come up with the best strategy, but if the client just finds inertia, you know, different reasons not to pursue, whether it's the insurance that's recommended or the investments and transferring assets and signing the paperwork, all that stuff just becomes the stickiness and the process.
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And so I look at my role as serving as an accountability partner over four months, we're going to meet regularly so that we check in on, okay, last time we said we were going to get this done.
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How's that going?
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Where are we?
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So we keep the momentum, but that is the hardest part, whether it's my model or any of the models is to help clients get out of, quite frankly, their own way
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Yeah.
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So what are some of the deliverables that you're working on in those four months as you're working with clients so deeply in those first four months?
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So one of the other drivers for me on wanting to go this route is that I am Really passionate that financial planning is great.
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You can do all the technical elements, but the big differentiators is the behaviors.
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And so I start every engagement by having clients take what I call the Myers Briggs of their financial health, you know, their financial mindset.
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And so that first meeting, we review the results of that assessment.
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And the reason I like it is because rather than just, taking this assessment, we're able to look at real data that says, Hey, the questions you answered indicate that spending gives you a lot of joy.
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Let's talk about that more and how that feeds into your financial habits, like your, your money mindset that can drive the outcome ultimately of your financial plan.
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So that first meeting we're dedicated entirely talking about this money mindset and then we meet another really 4 to 5 times over that 4 month period to cover each of the technical elements of building a financial plan.
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And in every meeting.
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We have deliverables where we walk through those decks that are customized to that client's individual situation.
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Outside of that, I do use tech.
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You know, I use a financial planning software.
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I use Right Capital.
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And then also a budgeting tool that's been really helpful for clients is called Monarch Money.
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And the reason I like that one is that I kind of explain it as a shining a flashlight on your spend plan.
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We can plan our cashflow all day long, but unless we actually look at what's happening, we won't be able to move the needle on some of those goals that we've laid out.
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So it's kind of a multi pronged approach from a deliverable standpoint.
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I often tell clients at the beginning of the engagement, you're not going to leave this experience with like a hundred page document that just says, here's what you need to do.
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Good luck, you can die at 99 and this is what it'll look like.
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It's much more iterative than that, but, we work together along the way.
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That's great.
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And then you've set up that plan in those first four months.
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Do you then meet with them on an ongoing basis after that?
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Or what does the engagement look like after those first four months?
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So those first four months sets the foundation.
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And then once we're through there, they kind of graduate, they still have access to the tools that we've shared, the Monarch money and the right capital for a specific period of time.
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So rather than any kind of subscription tale, I really wanted to try and align the value that the client receives to what they're paying for that time and effort that goes into it.
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So I touch base with clients, but then when things happen, I've got a question about an inheritance or a bonus that happened.
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Where does it fit within my plan?
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We schedule some time together and then they receive an invoice for the hours that we work together.
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Okay, that's great.
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I mean, I love the very, as you said at the very beginning, the complete transparency of this approach and the empowerment that you're giving them as well.
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I think it's a growing space.
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you know, especially for the individuals that just want to say, I don't want to touch this.
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I need someone else to place all the trades.
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I'm not the right solution for them right now, but as we continue to build out better robo platforms and things where the investment management piece can just be kind of a set it and forget it, this advice only, Partnership with a model like that starts to really get some legs.
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So it's exciting.
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It's growing.
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There's a number of us that are moving in this direction.
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I was doing some research and prep for this podcast, and one of the things I loved about your particular website was that you kind of named your ideal client.
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Can you talk about who your ideal client is?
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They definitely need to be tech savvy to a certain degree because I'm a virtual firm and we meet on the computer.
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for Houston clients, I have met in person, but primarily we meet through tech.
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So that's kind of the table stakes.
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And then from there, it's individuals who do feel comfortable being in the driver's seat of their plan, who don't want to take what I call is more the ostrich approach, you know, head in the sand, I don't want to look at it.
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Instead, they're interested in really prioritizing their financial picture and bringing it into focus.
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So I would say those are the two big kind of caveats.
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And then as to where they are in their life's journey, Where some clients I'm working with earlier on in their careers, some are more in that kind of the meat of their career.
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And what does this look like and how much longer do I need to do the grind?
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More looking for that validation.
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And then I've worked with clients that are on the doorstep or just starting.
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Retirement, really trying to make sure that they're structured correctly for that decumulation phase of life that they're headed into.
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you also mentioned a moment ago that you're a solopreneur.
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it's a balancing act for sure as a solopreneur.
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How did you know how to set up this type of practice, right?
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Cause it is a growing space.
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It's a new way of doing this business in some ways.
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how did you know how to set up your practice?
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What does compliance look like?
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I know there's tons of like operational kind of questions in here for me.
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So there are a ton of questions and some of it is you try it, and figure it out as you kind of continue to build the ship while you're flying.
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But there are a lot of resources.
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XY Planning Network was really invaluable to me on just kind of getting started.
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And I had done a lot of research.
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So finding the right resources and building out my advisor network on other individuals who are going through this similar journey.
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I think we might have even laughed about this, Shelby, at one of our earlier conversations, but these mastermind groups are kind of unique to the financial advisor landscape.
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I always laugh at the name.
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I don't understand why we're called mastermind groups.
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But those have been fantastic on making that solopreneur journey, less isolating, less lonely, and really a spot to throw ideas at, ask for validation, ask for recommendations.
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That's where early on I got the compliance suggestions.
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the kind of what is your tech stack look like?
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How do you optimize?
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All of that came from those discussions, as well as the resources that were available to me.
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When I first launched, I was very excited and passionate about hourly.
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And that's where I started.
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But I've pivoted to where hourly is great, but when I want to do the approach I want to do where it's less whack a mole is what I described.
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When you just do hourly, we're going to maybe solve a problem over here and create another problem over here.
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So that to me felt too frustrating where I wasn't really helping the client look at their whole picture.
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I wanted to move away from, hey, this email took me 10 minutes and I need to bill at this hourly rate.
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The stickiness of that, there's enough inertia and friction to people wanting to prioritize the financial planning tasks.
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I wanted to remove that.
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And so that's where I moved to this four month planning journey for a flat fee and then hourly Thereafter, again, trying to make it as transparent as possible, but remove the friction of people being hesitant to connect and not wanting to prioritize moving through the journey.
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instead these, some of the engagements would go on a year versus really just making it done so that they feel like they're in a good spot.
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So I want to go back to one of the things that you mentioned a moment ago, which was the mastermind groups.
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because I think When people have kind of grown up in traditional firms, you get that within your regions, you get that within your local office, etc.
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And when you are a solopreneur, You have to seek out the learning opportunities and the peer group learning in a little bit of a different way.
00:19:13.713 --> 00:19:21.324
Talk about masterminds and how you found those groups, are you still part of one, et cetera.
00:19:22.303 --> 00:19:26.563
That's the hard part but the XY planning network as part of a firm launch.
00:19:26.913 --> 00:19:31.613
You get assigned to a mastermind group with other firms that are in the same space.
00:19:32.012 --> 00:19:36.313
And some are more active and dedicated members within that group than others.
00:19:36.692 --> 00:19:38.962
We started with probably 10 in our group.
00:19:38.992 --> 00:19:43.883
And now there's a little cohort of three of us that meet more or less every two weeks.
00:19:43.992 --> 00:19:45.522
And it's really fantastic.
00:19:45.522 --> 00:19:50.593
It's been, this whole journey actually has been so cool on the power of the internet.
00:19:51.188 --> 00:19:54.857
To connect because I'm a virtual firm and I'm located in Texas.
00:19:55.198 --> 00:19:59.397
My mastermind group is Bay Area and San Francisco.
00:19:59.397 --> 00:20:01.397
And then the other woman is in Tennessee.
00:20:01.847 --> 00:20:05.448
We've never met in person, but I feel this strong connection with them.
00:20:05.448 --> 00:20:08.377
We've kind of gone through this and we're growing up together with the firms.
00:20:08.827 --> 00:20:10.008
And that's been awesome.
00:20:10.008 --> 00:20:20.167
And then NAPFA is another great resource that's connected me with more of a mentoring circle, creating some of that networking opportunities as well.
00:20:20.218 --> 00:20:23.337
It's really a matter of making sure it's a priority that you show up.
00:20:23.508 --> 00:20:26.137
Even if you don't have a pressing issue to solve.
00:20:26.548 --> 00:20:31.367
One, you could learn from the other questions that get asked by other people on the group.
00:20:31.718 --> 00:20:37.768
You're able to bounce ideas naturally off of people, but when you're just in, I kind of call it the echo chamber.
00:20:37.768 --> 00:20:45.877
I laughed with my group where it's like, this sounded like a great idea when I was just pitching it to myself, but how does this sound against everybody else?
00:20:45.877 --> 00:20:47.438
So it's been valuable.
00:20:47.817 --> 00:20:54.305
Also partnering with even just these other resources, like SCORE is a program through the Small Business Association.
00:20:54.634 --> 00:20:57.234
I got paired with a mentor for free.
00:20:57.545 --> 00:21:00.484
It's a retiree who's specialized in marketing.
00:21:00.944 --> 00:21:09.884
And all of those kind of scaffolding together have helped give me more of a sense of community as I embark on this kind of solo journey.
00:21:09.884 --> 00:21:11.315
It feels less isolating.
00:21:12.256 --> 00:21:13.056
That's wonderful.
00:21:13.056 --> 00:21:19.096
I think it's, So important to feel connection and being a woman in this industry.
00:21:19.096 --> 00:21:20.506
That's part of it, right?
00:21:20.516 --> 00:21:27.556
There's so many more men than there are women, being a solopreneur working from home, It is important to find those connections.
00:21:27.885 --> 00:21:39.701
One of the things I've been thinking about, even for myself, as I continue to build my consulting practice connecting with other people on specific topics like marketing, etc.
00:21:39.701 --> 00:21:45.655
And you mentioned, your mentor Has that been an approach that you've done and has that provided value for you?
00:21:46.490 --> 00:21:48.519
Yeah, no, that was extremely valuable.
00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:49.250
She was great.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:55.779
Very thoughtful, super follow up notes, really added value and pushed me.
00:21:55.779 --> 00:22:00.069
She served as the accountability partner that I try to serve with my clients.
00:22:00.069 --> 00:22:02.140
We would meet and she'd be like, Hey, you said you were going to do this.
00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:02.789
What happened?
00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:04.940
It was really, really valuable.
00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:09.849
One other program I forgot to mention that I was part of is that my husband was in the military.
00:22:10.529 --> 00:22:15.970
And so I was eligible as a military spouse to join a program called Bunker Labs.
00:22:16.890 --> 00:22:30.549
that's a program six month journey where other solopreneurs, other entrepreneurs who are launching things, it doesn't have to be just financial services, but we met on a weekly basis and that it's all about finding the right group.
00:22:30.549 --> 00:22:31.700
That's going to hold you accountable.
00:22:32.154 --> 00:22:33.894
And keep you making progress.
00:22:34.194 --> 00:22:36.444
Yeah, I appreciate that so much.
00:22:36.444 --> 00:22:52.840
I think that's where I'm at even right now in my journey as a, entrepreneur as well is finding that scaffolding of people and then also figuring out what are the places that I like to work and the things I like to do and what are the things that I need to hire out, et cetera.
00:22:53.201 --> 00:23:02.641
I think when you first go independent or you become a solopreneur, You're sorting through those things in real time, like you said, building the plane as you're flying it at the same time.
00:23:03.664 --> 00:23:14.865
totally and trying to really do it all yourself because you're bootstrapping and you need to make it all as lean and mean as possible, but then trying to shift into, okay, that growth mindset of not getting stuck.
00:23:15.450 --> 00:23:17.250
where do I want to be three to five years?
00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:20.220
And what do I need to put in place to get there?
00:23:20.250 --> 00:23:23.829
I recently just started using an AI note taker.
00:23:24.730 --> 00:23:29.849
Realistically, I can take the notes afterwards, but it's been really nice.
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:38.559
One, to just feel like I'm staying current with everything that's happening in the industry, but it's been also great to help optimize my process.
00:23:38.650 --> 00:23:46.910
Some of those notes that are getting captured with the AI note taker, Help alleviate some of the time and pressure that I was putting on myself to take copious notes.
00:23:47.269 --> 00:23:49.329
I can use that as a tool to reference back to.
00:23:49.329 --> 00:24:04.386
So it's finding those things to plug into, but it's also, you don't know what you don't know, and you want to make sure whatever you try works for the longer term so that you're not just too noisy and distracting from the work you're trying to do.
00:24:05.617 --> 00:24:06.698
That's a great point.
00:24:06.748 --> 00:24:15.907
Tell me about what you're doing in order to track maybe leads and leads of potential clients that you might work with and clients.
00:24:15.907 --> 00:24:17.198
Do you use the CRM?
00:24:17.228 --> 00:24:19.688
Is, are you at that point where you needed that yet?
00:24:20.616 --> 00:24:51.811
Yeah, I don't necessarily have to use the CRM right now, but I really like trying to create that as just part of my workflow so that it's natural, everything's documented from a compliance standpoint, but I definitely use the CRM and I've tried different pieces within the CRM to track not only where they are in their journey, that they're currently clients, but also building those workflows to track Prospects, who have I reached out to, tracking some of the marketing efforts that I'm doing, the CRM is valuable for sure.
00:24:51.842 --> 00:24:53.711
And using it before I think I need it.
00:24:53.751 --> 00:24:56.241
You know, part of me in the early days is like, Oh, it's fine.
00:24:56.241 --> 00:25:02.271
I can just do them in the spreadsheet, but the spreadsheet becomes cumbersome and much more time intensive quickly.
00:25:02.311 --> 00:25:08.592
So that's the goal is to make sure that you're using those tools to allow you to free up time to do other things.
00:25:09.222 --> 00:25:09.742
That's right.
00:25:09.823 --> 00:25:20.393
You know, you talked earlier about kind of the growth in this fee only as a method of providing advice and you talked also about your practice and growth goals.
00:25:20.623 --> 00:25:23.553
What are your growth goals for your practice in these next few years?
00:25:26.406 --> 00:25:28.646
where I am, I mean you're similar journey.
00:25:28.821 --> 00:25:34.412
Time is the most precious commodity, you know, trying to balance building this with the school calendars.
00:25:34.412 --> 00:25:35.821
I've got three young kids as well.
00:25:35.821 --> 00:25:42.291
So my five years is to continue to grow, but in a way that doesn't completely burn me out.
00:25:43.041 --> 00:25:48.021
And so finding that balance of how many clients on a regular basis, I do think five to six.
00:25:48.522 --> 00:25:51.622
Just myself is kind of right now my cap.
00:25:51.642 --> 00:25:57.571
So maybe in two to three years, bringing on someone else to continue to grow the business.
00:25:57.612 --> 00:26:05.096
I'm excited about that being kind of the growth strategy going forward because My model does require more time intensive.
00:26:05.126 --> 00:26:16.076
You know, it's not as much just get the assets into the accounts and then I don't talk to someone maybe for a year, maybe two years, but I'm still getting paid by just having those assets on my books.
00:26:16.406 --> 00:26:19.406
Instead, mine is a more time intensive journey.
00:26:20.057 --> 00:26:31.057
And so marrying that balance of kind of what's the right pricing structure that I'm getting the right clients that want to work with me as well as my staffing and kind of my expense side.
00:26:31.057 --> 00:26:42.737
So, right now, I'm kind of in the sweet spot, but in 3 to 5 years, my goal would be hopefully to bring on another planner that would take on some of that client work so that we could grow the number of people were able to serve.
00:26:43.307 --> 00:26:44.147
Oh, that's great.
00:26:44.438 --> 00:26:54.576
I think you'll be able to really grow that impact in the clients, like you said, let's talk about other trends and things that you're seeing in financial planning or in the operations of a practice like you.
00:26:54.875 --> 00:26:57.625
I love this AI conversation that we've been having.
00:26:57.925 --> 00:27:01.855
what other things should advisors be sort of looking for?
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:08.109
The AI and just in general being tech first where clients, you know, I don't see them in person.
00:27:08.109 --> 00:27:26.039
They're not bringing paper documents It's been fascinating to me the psychology not only of people's money, but then also psychology around data and sharing It's been really interesting some clients that I've worked with don't want to share any data They need to redact everything and I say, okay, I want to work with you, but I have to To be able to see some things.
00:27:26.349 --> 00:27:29.339
And then there's other clients that are like, record it, put it anywhere.
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:29.990
I don't care.
00:27:29.990 --> 00:27:33.130
And they're sending, you know, emails with documents attached.
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:35.619
So it runs the gamut.
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:42.059
That's been one of the trickier parts is just making sure everyone's educated on the right channels, being transparent with the client.
00:27:42.894 --> 00:27:45.684
I sometimes laugh that I'm a bit of the conspiracy theorist.
00:27:45.684 --> 00:27:59.664
You know, I, I do have worries about data and data integrity, so I might be overly concerned, but that's something that I'm really passionate about making sure that the client feels confident that their data is safe.
00:27:59.714 --> 00:28:06.884
It's in a third party vendor, you know, really trying to be as open about how I'm managing all of that as possible.
00:28:07.174 --> 00:28:16.954
So from an operations standpoint, that's the biggest one for me that I worry about is like cyber security and, and it's been interesting trying to educate myself on all of that.
00:28:17.204 --> 00:28:22.809
It's just an interesting world on kind of how to manage the operations and make sure you're doing it correctly.
00:28:23.109 --> 00:28:25.049
what are some of the tools that you're using there?
00:28:25.089 --> 00:28:28.589
Are you using like a Dropbox or is Dropbox secure enough?
00:28:28.589 --> 00:28:33.756
Or what are you choosing for your data sharing, foldering system?
00:28:33.756 --> 00:28:41.885
it's been a little all over the map, but I do lean on those third party vendors to make sure that they're following their protocols.
00:28:42.185 --> 00:28:48.486
The hard part is we can do the best that we can and huge industry players are still hacked.
00:28:48.496 --> 00:28:59.840
You know, so it's, it's a tricky, to navigate and trying to make the client feel as confident as possible that I'm doing the best I can to keep the information secure.
00:29:00.696 --> 00:29:07.527
Yeah, I especially love hearing that you are not using Generally sending those documents through email, etc.
00:29:07.886 --> 00:29:22.666
I've heard of a couple of cases when I was still in the corporate ranks and was working on securities based lending where even things like, ACH instructions and wire instructions Mid email string.
00:29:22.717 --> 00:29:31.606
That email had been hacked and gave me the wrong wire instructions as a bank and now I have wired money somewhere to a fraudster, right?
00:29:31.797 --> 00:29:35.477
Instead of it going to your title company when you were buying a home, as an example.
00:29:36.066 --> 00:29:36.675
Yeah.
00:29:36.935 --> 00:29:38.405
It's, it is crazy.
00:29:38.496 --> 00:29:45.576
One of my first jobs was working actually at the Missouri, Attorney General's office in the Consumer Protection Division.
00:29:45.605 --> 00:29:59.105
So maybe that's what created this conspiracy theorist thing in me of really being hypervigilant on how sneaky some of the things can be on grabbing emails or credit card data at the grocery store.
00:29:59.105 --> 00:30:06.965
it's definitely top of mind for me, especially when I'm trying to implement and incorporate tech tools, in an efficient way.
00:30:07.636 --> 00:30:08.426
Absolutely.
00:30:08.611 --> 00:30:14.691
other piece of the planning process that I do, I'm not a CPA, but I do help with tax strategy.
00:30:14.721 --> 00:30:20.671
And so I do need clients tax returns, which that for me is the most sensitive data that I get.
00:30:20.681 --> 00:30:25.671
You know, I need statements, but it doesn't have social security numbers on it, but the tax documents I do need.
00:30:26.266 --> 00:30:33.096
And so the tool I use is called Holista plan and I'm vigilant on, and they do a great job of data security.
00:30:33.476 --> 00:30:38.385
But those are the things that I worry about as the business owner to kind of think about my vulnerabilities.
00:30:39.037 --> 00:30:40.737
Yeah, you have a great tech stack.
00:30:41.656 --> 00:30:42.836
RightCapital is so good.
00:30:42.836 --> 00:30:46.277
HolistaPlan is really well known and just a great tool.
00:30:46.277 --> 00:30:49.987
I hear advisors all the time singing the praises of HolistaPlan.
00:30:50.366 --> 00:30:53.106
for your CRM, are you using Wealthbox or what do you
00:30:53.286 --> 00:30:54.747
I use, I use Wealthbox.
00:30:55.047 --> 00:30:55.876
I'm a huge fan.
00:30:55.886 --> 00:30:57.166
Huge fan of Wealthbox.
00:30:57.166 --> 00:30:57.247
Yeah,
00:30:57.297 --> 00:31:01.086
and even Holista plan early on when you're like, which ones am I going to incorporate?
00:31:01.086 --> 00:31:03.906
You think, Oh, I can just look at the returns myself.
00:31:04.096 --> 00:31:09.946
It has been such a time saver and a fantastic tool to use on the fly with clients.
00:31:09.967 --> 00:31:11.606
It's invaluable.
00:31:11.906 --> 00:31:19.232
yeah, I hear a lot of times of advisors talking about how they have found errors in client tax returns by running them through Holista plan.
00:31:19.593 --> 00:31:28.702
And either then they can, you know, choose to act on those or not, but it's, it's an interesting conversation sometimes with their CPA partners as a result.
00:31:29.133 --> 00:31:45.692
well we are coming up on time and I want to ask kind of in closing today, what is, what is your advice that you would give to other financial planners who are considering the different models and specifically this fee for advice fee for planning approach.
00:31:47.156 --> 00:31:48.656
gosh, that's a great question.
00:31:48.676 --> 00:32:00.846
So I would encourage people to look around, talk with other advisors who are doing the different models to get a better handle on the pros and cons, because there truly are pros and cons to all of the models.
00:32:01.386 --> 00:32:04.557
And just making sure that whatever route you choose.
00:32:05.291 --> 00:32:11.981
That it's ethical, that it's done according to kind of the way you feel passionate about delivering financial services.
00:32:12.332 --> 00:32:28.251
But I will just toot the horn of recommending exploring all the options and talking to people because it is getting more confusing and the kind of traditional route of just going insurance sales or that AUM model is evolving.
00:32:28.271 --> 00:32:29.882
I think it's exciting to be part of.
00:32:29.882 --> 00:32:31.511
It's just figuring out the right way.
00:32:32.402 --> 00:32:39.281
And how to partner where you don't necessarily have to build your own, but you can kind of fold within a practice in order to get that experience.
00:32:40.278 --> 00:32:55.147
One of the things I just love about this interview and your story is how deeply you are committed to transparency and to transparency with the clients and their fees, transparency in how you work, etc.
00:32:56.237 --> 00:32:57.287
Yeah, it's exciting.
00:32:57.287 --> 00:33:07.346
I'm keen on putting individual investors in the driver's seat so that they feel more knowledgeable about why they hold different things in their investment strategy.
00:33:07.717 --> 00:33:12.856
But then broader than that even, it's the insurance, it's your cash flow, it's what are your goals.
00:33:13.277 --> 00:33:15.987
because it's a lot easier to manage your budget.
00:33:16.436 --> 00:33:23.106
When you're focused on, I want to make sure I can retire at X date or go on this huge trip and keeping those in focus.
00:33:23.116 --> 00:33:29.136
So, really trying to bring the holistic conversation I think it really needs to be more on how we can continue to help.
00:33:29.751 --> 00:33:33.791
Impact clients earlier on their journey so that they can get to the 3 million.
00:33:33.942 --> 00:33:35.912
I was like, how can you be that coach and partner?
00:33:36.611 --> 00:33:38.070
I couldn't agree more.
00:33:38.111 --> 00:33:41.971
Thank you so much, Julia, for being here today on the podcast.
00:33:42.020 --> 00:33:43.211
I really appreciate it.
00:33:43.549 --> 00:33:44.839
Thank you for the conversation.
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:45.339
It was great.
00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:50.809
It was great to see you and excited to be part of your Muriel network and just continue to see this space grow.
00:33:51.171 --> 00:33:54.480
Oh, I can't wait to hear about your practice growth over the next several years.
00:33:54.760 --> 00:33:56.891
I have no doubts that you're going to be so successful.
00:33:56.901 --> 00:33:57.560
Thank you.
00:33:57.842 --> 00:33:58.821
Shelby great to see you.
00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:05.870
when I talk with clients about explaining the value, I try to equate it to kind of a financial health checkup.
00:00:06.115 --> 00:00:07.966
I want to do a full diagnostic.
00:00:07.975 --> 00:00:12.955
you're investing into your financial health we're not just looking at an investment strategy.
00:00:13.295 --> 00:00:16.265
We're looking at all the different pieces of their financial life.
00:00:17.036 --> 00:00:22.216
So that's really how I framed the why behind working with me and my model.
00:00:22.746 --> 00:00:24.887
Welcome back to the Kick It Open podcast.
00:00:24.977 --> 00:00:26.336
I'm your host, Shelby Nichol.
00:00:26.937 --> 00:00:29.146
I'm really excited for today's conversation.
00:00:29.277 --> 00:00:31.983
I've invited Julia Lilly to join me today.
00:00:32.073 --> 00:00:36.912
solopreneur, runner of Ryerson Financial.
00:00:37.188 --> 00:00:41.048
And she's worked in the wealth management industry for decades.
00:00:41.527 --> 00:00:50.557
Her background includes serving in the home office of a traditional broker dealer, acting as an advisor in an RIA, and now operating her own fee for planning firm.
00:00:51.158 --> 00:01:06.427
I couldn't think of anyone better to share their perspective on how our industry charges clients for the services it provides, and who could talk about the up and coming revolution of fee for plan or fee for service that we're starting to see.
00:01:06.992 --> 00:01:13.942
there has been a conversation within the wealth management industry about how this industry should charge clients for the value that advisors provide.
00:01:14.722 --> 00:01:20.043
It's a growing area and one that is maybe a little less understood by many of us in the industry.
00:01:20.763 --> 00:01:23.423
I'm so glad that Julia agreed to come on the show.
00:01:24.183 --> 00:01:25.393
Welcome, Julia.
00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:27.250
So welcome, Julia.
00:01:27.260 --> 00:01:30.010
I'm really excited to have this conversation with you today.
00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:31.150
Thank you for being here.
00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:33.260
Thank you, Shelby, for including me.
00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:33.900
I'm excited.
00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:39.391
So, as we get started, one of the things I love to do at the beginning is just to hear from you.
00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:41.971
What is your journey in wealth management?
00:01:43.299 --> 00:01:44.379
I laugh.
00:01:44.379 --> 00:01:47.829
Journey is a very good word because it's been a bit of a journey.
00:01:47.859 --> 00:01:55.730
So I've always worked in finance, but about 10 years ago, I joined a broker dealer doing home office work.
00:01:55.730 --> 00:02:00.439
So I wasn't doing client facing work, but my job there was to better inform the client.
00:02:00.659 --> 00:02:07.859
Financial planning experience and just get a better handle on really what is financial planning and what the client values in the experience.
00:02:08.590 --> 00:02:09.289
I got my CFP.
00:02:09.710 --> 00:02:11.030
I left the broker dealer.
00:02:11.860 --> 00:02:14.060
And then joined an assets under management firm.
00:02:14.069 --> 00:02:21.509
So it was a firm that works with clients based on the assets that we manage and we provide that ongoing relationship.
00:02:22.069 --> 00:02:25.599
About three years ago, we moved to the Houston, Texas area.
00:02:25.650 --> 00:02:30.819
And at that time, I decided I love financial planning, but I wanted the freedom and flexibility.
00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:38.509
So three years ago, I started Ryerson Financial as an advice only flat fee planning firm.
00:02:38.914 --> 00:02:46.235
That is such a different experience than what you saw inside of the broker dealer and even inside of your AUM based firm.
00:02:46.604 --> 00:02:55.764
So just to level set for everyone, let's just Talk about those models because they're really around what is the advice being provided and then what, how are they priced?
00:02:55.794 --> 00:02:58.375
How is that advice priced and charged for?
00:02:58.685 --> 00:03:00.675
Can you kind of talk about those options?
00:03:01.854 --> 00:03:02.084
Yeah.
00:03:02.084 --> 00:03:02.973
I mean, I laugh.
00:03:03.024 --> 00:03:04.614
I'm a student of this space.
00:03:04.663 --> 00:03:07.133
I'm close to it and I find it confusing.
00:03:07.183 --> 00:03:11.123
So I think from a client experience, people looking to partner with an advisor.
00:03:11.123 --> 00:03:18.253
It's overwhelming because the language is nuanced and what does it all mean and how does it actually work in practice?
00:03:18.283 --> 00:03:23.343
There's times when I see models advertised and I have to go and research exactly what that means.
00:03:23.653 --> 00:03:31.843
So there's kind of three primary methods at this point in, the financial planning landscape that I'm aware of.
00:03:32.533 --> 00:03:33.963
It's more that commission based.
00:03:34.318 --> 00:03:35.519
So that is pure transactional.
00:03:35.519 --> 00:03:42.389
Whatever transaction you perform with an advisor, you're paying a commission.
00:03:42.778 --> 00:03:44.538
Sometimes whether you know it or not.
00:03:44.558 --> 00:03:48.049
It could be baked into the financial product that you're purchasing.
00:03:48.449 --> 00:03:54.813
It could be more transparent where it's, you know, just a line item that says in order to buy this particular asset.
00:03:54.913 --> 00:03:56.563
You have to pay this amount of money.
00:03:56.924 --> 00:03:58.054
So that's step one.
00:03:58.304 --> 00:04:00.400
Then there's the assets under management.
00:04:00.693 --> 00:04:08.114
So that's where you're paying to work with an advisor based on the assets that an advisor manages.
00:04:08.354 --> 00:04:23.088
So it's typically in a range from like 1 percent to 3 percent of your assets under management that an And have that kind of on call support and someone watching your portfolio.
00:04:23.908 --> 00:04:31.249
The third model is really this kind of growing space, which is kind of flat fee slash fee for service.
00:04:31.619 --> 00:04:38.149
Where people are trying to say, because it's confusing that even asset under management will say we're a flat fee.
00:04:38.553 --> 00:04:50.244
Because you're not paying that commission, but a true flat fee means it doesn't matter how many assets you have, you pay one very transparent dollar amount for the relationship.
00:04:50.694 --> 00:05:01.444
That's like 10, 000 foot view of the like clean silos, but even within each of those, there's nuances around how people approach delivering the service to clients.
00:05:02.545 --> 00:05:03.194
Absolutely.
00:05:03.194 --> 00:05:05.925
And there's even people who are combining those models, right?
00:05:05.935 --> 00:05:10.464
And they might say for your financial plan, I'm going to charge you a certain fee.
00:05:10.725 --> 00:05:15.264
And then if you want me to manage your assets, I charge an AUM based fee.
00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:17.500
So you see a little bit of blending there.
00:05:18.014 --> 00:05:18.723
Exactly.
00:05:19.004 --> 00:05:32.824
And so there, people say, I'm fee only, but really they're fee based because they're charging the AUM, plus they're potentially selling insurance contracts where they're getting paid a commission for that insurance contract.
00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:39.529
So you chose to go this fee for service, fee only model, whatever words we want to put on that.
00:05:39.908 --> 00:05:41.569
I know it's very confusing.
00:05:41.588 --> 00:05:44.899
So where I landed is that I just wanted more transparency.
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.959
That was one of the big things I learned, even working with the broker dealer.
00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:56.488
When I said I did more of the behind the scenes, the home office support, there are a lot of people who are getting financial planning services and thought I pay nothing.
00:05:56.899 --> 00:06:07.519
For this financial planning journey, whereas they don't realize embedded within each of the products that they own, they are paying a fee to the advisor that's just not transparent.
00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:19.829
So for me, when I started the firm here in Houston, my big motivation was to put the client more in the driver's seat so that they understood what they're paying and then the value that they're getting for it.
00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:24.060
So how has that kind of impacted your clients?
00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:28.540
Because I love that they, that it's so transparent that they can see their value.
00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:33.680
When you describe to them your value and the pricing, how do you say that?
00:06:33.689 --> 00:06:34.879
what is kind of your model there?
00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:37.490
Is there differences in complexity of clients?
00:06:38.559 --> 00:06:42.439
You know, I've tried to make it as simple as possible.
00:06:42.488 --> 00:06:43.908
sometimes that works in my favor.
00:06:43.908 --> 00:06:48.988
Sometimes that doesn't, because you're right, there are nuances and some are more complex than others.
00:06:49.798 --> 00:06:55.822
But when I talk with clients about explaining the value, I try to equate it to kind of a financial health checkup.
00:06:56.442 --> 00:07:00.992
So the reason to do it and to partner with me is that I want to do a full diagnostic.
00:07:01.002 --> 00:07:07.081
You know, you're committing and investing into your financial health so that we're not just looking at an investment strategy.
00:07:07.422 --> 00:07:10.391
We're looking at all the different pieces of their financial life.
00:07:11.161 --> 00:07:16.341
So that's really how I framed the why behind working with me and my model.
00:07:16.791 --> 00:07:23.841
And also one other nuance of the way that I'm approaching my service offering is that I'm advice only.
00:07:23.901 --> 00:07:28.911
which means that I don't require clients to move assets to a specific custodian.
00:07:28.971 --> 00:07:32.341
I'm not going to be the one placing a trade on a client's behalf.
00:07:33.007 --> 00:07:35.607
Instead, I want the client to be in the driver's seat.
00:07:35.807 --> 00:07:38.237
I coach, I provide a lot of strategy.
00:07:38.237 --> 00:07:43.286
We log in together even and look at their dashboard at their custodian of choice.
00:07:43.836 --> 00:07:48.697
But I'm not the gatekeeper to managing that, that investment strategy.
00:07:49.552 --> 00:07:50.913
So interesting.
00:07:50.923 --> 00:07:57.762
So it's a very different kind of psychological model in some ways, right?
00:07:57.793 --> 00:08:06.213
Because I think about being in the broker dealer and it is often around an advisor and almost this sort of parental.
00:08:06.512 --> 00:08:24.273
manner with their clients, the advisor is providing the recommendations, the client is saying yes, in many cases the advisor is the portfolio manager and working as an FA as PM and so they're actually making all those choices on behalf of the client with the client's needs and wants.
00:08:24.687 --> 00:08:34.628
Your philosophy is very much about, it sounds to me like empowering the, the investor and they make the choices.
00:08:35.298 --> 00:08:39.967
They are understanding those choices in a, maybe a different, deeper way.
00:08:41.101 --> 00:08:50.621
That's my goal is to kind of pull back a little bit of the curtain of how all of these financial products work and the why behind choosing different investments.
00:08:51.201 --> 00:08:53.192
My struggle is a lot of times that.
00:08:53.422 --> 00:08:58.892
advisor as a PM, they're just going into models that a client could very well do on their own.
00:08:59.001 --> 00:09:07.881
And they're getting rebalanced within the ETF and more index passive strategy that we've a little bit over engineered and we need to do that.
00:09:07.932 --> 00:09:12.261
And some clients really want to just be able to say, I want to hand it all over.
00:09:12.282 --> 00:09:13.331
I don't even want to look at it.
00:09:13.331 --> 00:09:14.412
I don't want to think about it.
00:09:14.822 --> 00:09:15.922
And when I work with clients.
00:09:16.565 --> 00:09:25.264
I'm just saying, let's put the plan in place and then revisit it again in a year, but really not try to over engineer what's happening on the investment strategy side of things.
00:09:26.015 --> 00:09:27.035
So interesting.
00:09:27.046 --> 00:09:33.538
You know, when we reconnected and I heard about your practice, I thought to myself, gosh, this is really cool.
00:09:34.138 --> 00:09:45.648
This industry has been talking about kind of a movement towards, pay for advice, advice for fees, sort of an approach, but it also sounds really hard.
00:09:45.817 --> 00:09:49.807
Have you found it to be harder, easier than the other models?
00:09:49.837 --> 00:09:51.317
What's your take on that?
00:09:52.147 --> 00:09:57.086
it's an and, you know, some parts are harder and some parts are easier from a compliance standpoint.
00:09:57.116 --> 00:10:10.792
Selfishly, it's a lot easier for me not to have to feel like I'm babysitting a lot of accounts and gives me more peace of mind on going to the independent route where I'm a registered investment advisor, but I'm a solopreneur.
00:10:10.841 --> 00:10:14.451
And so that's a lot of balls to juggle in addition to the operations and everything else.
00:10:15.011 --> 00:10:29.206
So that was for me, one big driver, but then the other piece being to really put the client in the driver's seat so that they feel more ownership One of the biggest struggles in any financial planning Model is the implementation.
00:10:29.567 --> 00:10:45.437
We can come up with the best strategy, but if the client just finds inertia, you know, different reasons not to pursue, whether it's the insurance that's recommended or the investments and transferring assets and signing the paperwork, all that stuff just becomes the stickiness and the process.
00:10:45.917 --> 00:10:55.557
And so I look at my role as serving as an accountability partner over four months, we're going to meet regularly so that we check in on, okay, last time we said we were going to get this done.
00:10:56.096 --> 00:10:57.017
How's that going?
00:10:57.017 --> 00:10:57.677
Where are we?
00:10:57.677 --> 00:11:06.317
So we keep the momentum, but that is the hardest part, whether it's my model or any of the models is to help clients get out of, quite frankly, their own way
00:11:06.636 --> 00:11:07.136
Yeah.
00:11:07.667 --> 00:11:15.466
So what are some of the deliverables that you're working on in those four months as you're working with clients so deeply in those first four months?
00:11:16.416 --> 00:11:24.630
So one of the other drivers for me on wanting to go this route is that I am Really passionate that financial planning is great.
00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:28.640
You can do all the technical elements, but the big differentiators is the behaviors.
00:11:29.150 --> 00:11:38.490
And so I start every engagement by having clients take what I call the Myers Briggs of their financial health, you know, their financial mindset.
00:11:39.061 --> 00:11:42.270
And so that first meeting, we review the results of that assessment.
00:11:42.321 --> 00:11:52.360
And the reason I like it is because rather than just, taking this assessment, we're able to look at real data that says, Hey, the questions you answered indicate that spending gives you a lot of joy.
00:11:52.410 --> 00:12:02.441
Let's talk about that more and how that feeds into your financial habits, like your, your money mindset that can drive the outcome ultimately of your financial plan.
00:12:02.821 --> 00:12:19.471
So that first meeting we're dedicated entirely talking about this money mindset and then we meet another really 4 to 5 times over that 4 month period to cover each of the technical elements of building a financial plan.
00:12:19.551 --> 00:12:20.870
And in every meeting.
00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:27.390
We have deliverables where we walk through those decks that are customized to that client's individual situation.
00:12:28.331 --> 00:12:30.110
Outside of that, I do use tech.
00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.201
You know, I use a financial planning software.
00:12:32.201 --> 00:12:33.331
I use Right Capital.
00:12:33.931 --> 00:12:40.640
And then also a budgeting tool that's been really helpful for clients is called Monarch Money.
00:12:40.730 --> 00:12:45.301
And the reason I like that one is that I kind of explain it as a shining a flashlight on your spend plan.
00:12:45.461 --> 00:12:53.971
We can plan our cashflow all day long, but unless we actually look at what's happening, we won't be able to move the needle on some of those goals that we've laid out.
00:12:54.020 --> 00:12:58.230
So it's kind of a multi pronged approach from a deliverable standpoint.
00:12:58.581 --> 00:13:06.730
I often tell clients at the beginning of the engagement, you're not going to leave this experience with like a hundred page document that just says, here's what you need to do.
00:13:07.091 --> 00:13:10.081
Good luck, you can die at 99 and this is what it'll look like.
00:13:10.081 --> 00:13:14.500
It's much more iterative than that, but, we work together along the way.
00:13:15.866 --> 00:13:16.376
That's great.
00:13:16.376 --> 00:13:18.836
And then you've set up that plan in those first four months.
00:13:19.326 --> 00:13:23.086
Do you then meet with them on an ongoing basis after that?
00:13:23.086 --> 00:13:25.657
Or what does the engagement look like after those first four months?
00:13:26.650 --> 00:13:28.870
So those first four months sets the foundation.
00:13:28.971 --> 00:13:38.410
And then once we're through there, they kind of graduate, they still have access to the tools that we've shared, the Monarch money and the right capital for a specific period of time.
00:13:38.530 --> 00:13:49.171
So rather than any kind of subscription tale, I really wanted to try and align the value that the client receives to what they're paying for that time and effort that goes into it.
00:13:49.561 --> 00:13:56.400
So I touch base with clients, but then when things happen, I've got a question about an inheritance or a bonus that happened.
00:13:56.931 --> 00:13:58.321
Where does it fit within my plan?
00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:02.431
We schedule some time together and then they receive an invoice for the hours that we work together.
00:14:03.057 --> 00:14:04.517
Okay, that's great.
00:14:04.547 --> 00:14:14.206
I mean, I love the very, as you said at the very beginning, the complete transparency of this approach and the empowerment that you're giving them as well.
00:14:15.541 --> 00:14:17.051
I think it's a growing space.
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:21.480
you know, especially for the individuals that just want to say, I don't want to touch this.
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.571
I need someone else to place all the trades.
00:14:24.150 --> 00:14:40.395
I'm not the right solution for them right now, but as we continue to build out better robo platforms and things where the investment management piece can just be kind of a set it and forget it, this advice only, Partnership with a model like that starts to really get some legs.
00:14:40.436 --> 00:14:41.365
So it's exciting.
00:14:41.365 --> 00:14:42.056
It's growing.
00:14:42.105 --> 00:14:45.466
There's a number of us that are moving in this direction.
00:14:46.256 --> 00:14:54.986
I was doing some research and prep for this podcast, and one of the things I loved about your particular website was that you kind of named your ideal client.
00:14:55.017 --> 00:14:57.817
Can you talk about who your ideal client is?
00:14:59.556 --> 00:15:06.166
They definitely need to be tech savvy to a certain degree because I'm a virtual firm and we meet on the computer.
00:15:06.235 --> 00:15:10.535
for Houston clients, I have met in person, but primarily we meet through tech.
00:15:10.905 --> 00:15:12.916
So that's kind of the table stakes.
00:15:13.421 --> 00:15:24.870
And then from there, it's individuals who do feel comfortable being in the driver's seat of their plan, who don't want to take what I call is more the ostrich approach, you know, head in the sand, I don't want to look at it.
00:15:25.301 --> 00:15:32.091
Instead, they're interested in really prioritizing their financial picture and bringing it into focus.
00:15:32.571 --> 00:15:35.291
So I would say those are the two big kind of caveats.
00:15:36.740 --> 00:15:46.434
And then as to where they are in their life's journey, Where some clients I'm working with earlier on in their careers, some are more in that kind of the meat of their career.
00:15:46.434 --> 00:15:49.455
And what does this look like and how much longer do I need to do the grind?
00:15:49.855 --> 00:15:51.434
More looking for that validation.
00:15:51.884 --> 00:15:55.235
And then I've worked with clients that are on the doorstep or just starting.
00:15:55.524 --> 00:16:02.615
Retirement, really trying to make sure that they're structured correctly for that decumulation phase of life that they're headed into.
00:16:04.563 --> 00:16:08.193
you also mentioned a moment ago that you're a solopreneur.
00:16:08.323 --> 00:16:10.833
it's a balancing act for sure as a solopreneur.
00:16:11.313 --> 00:16:13.663
How did you know how to set up this type of practice, right?
00:16:13.663 --> 00:16:15.614
Cause it is a growing space.
00:16:15.644 --> 00:16:19.384
It's a new way of doing this business in some ways.
00:16:19.683 --> 00:16:21.894
how did you know how to set up your practice?
00:16:22.364 --> 00:16:23.783
What does compliance look like?
00:16:23.783 --> 00:16:27.884
I know there's tons of like operational kind of questions in here for me.
00:16:29.268 --> 00:16:38.067
So there are a ton of questions and some of it is you try it, and figure it out as you kind of continue to build the ship while you're flying.
00:16:38.618 --> 00:16:40.278
But there are a lot of resources.
00:16:40.457 --> 00:16:44.998
XY Planning Network was really invaluable to me on just kind of getting started.
00:16:45.008 --> 00:16:46.857
And I had done a lot of research.
00:16:47.398 --> 00:16:55.898
So finding the right resources and building out my advisor network on other individuals who are going through this similar journey.
00:16:56.148 --> 00:17:04.928
I think we might have even laughed about this, Shelby, at one of our earlier conversations, but these mastermind groups are kind of unique to the financial advisor landscape.
00:17:04.968 --> 00:17:06.488
I always laugh at the name.
00:17:06.498 --> 00:17:08.567
I don't understand why we're called mastermind groups.
00:17:08.913 --> 00:17:21.292
But those have been fantastic on making that solopreneur journey, less isolating, less lonely, and really a spot to throw ideas at, ask for validation, ask for recommendations.
00:17:21.292 --> 00:17:25.653
That's where early on I got the compliance suggestions.
00:17:25.752 --> 00:17:28.522
the kind of what is your tech stack look like?
00:17:28.522 --> 00:17:29.923
How do you optimize?
00:17:30.163 --> 00:17:35.853
All of that came from those discussions, as well as the resources that were available to me.
00:17:36.153 --> 00:17:41.732
When I first launched, I was very excited and passionate about hourly.
00:17:42.173 --> 00:17:43.573
And that's where I started.
00:17:43.928 --> 00:17:52.978
But I've pivoted to where hourly is great, but when I want to do the approach I want to do where it's less whack a mole is what I described.
00:17:53.208 --> 00:17:58.617
When you just do hourly, we're going to maybe solve a problem over here and create another problem over here.
00:17:58.978 --> 00:18:04.397
So that to me felt too frustrating where I wasn't really helping the client look at their whole picture.
00:18:04.843 --> 00:18:11.353
I wanted to move away from, hey, this email took me 10 minutes and I need to bill at this hourly rate.
00:18:11.673 --> 00:18:18.643
The stickiness of that, there's enough inertia and friction to people wanting to prioritize the financial planning tasks.
00:18:19.002 --> 00:18:20.192
I wanted to remove that.
00:18:20.212 --> 00:18:37.883
And so that's where I moved to this four month planning journey for a flat fee and then hourly Thereafter, again, trying to make it as transparent as possible, but remove the friction of people being hesitant to connect and not wanting to prioritize moving through the journey.
00:18:38.403 --> 00:18:45.313
instead these, some of the engagements would go on a year versus really just making it done so that they feel like they're in a good spot.
00:18:46.453 --> 00:18:51.903
So I want to go back to one of the things that you mentioned a moment ago, which was the mastermind groups.
00:18:51.923 --> 00:19:01.993
because I think When people have kind of grown up in traditional firms, you get that within your regions, you get that within your local office, etc.
00:19:02.304 --> 00:19:13.203
And when you are a solopreneur, You have to seek out the learning opportunities and the peer group learning in a little bit of a different way.
00:19:13.713 --> 00:19:21.324
Talk about masterminds and how you found those groups, are you still part of one, et cetera.
00:19:22.303 --> 00:19:26.563
That's the hard part but the XY planning network as part of a firm launch.
00:19:26.913 --> 00:19:31.613
You get assigned to a mastermind group with other firms that are in the same space.
00:19:32.012 --> 00:19:36.313
And some are more active and dedicated members within that group than others.
00:19:36.692 --> 00:19:38.962
We started with probably 10 in our group.
00:19:38.992 --> 00:19:43.883
And now there's a little cohort of three of us that meet more or less every two weeks.
00:19:43.992 --> 00:19:45.522
And it's really fantastic.
00:19:45.522 --> 00:19:50.593
It's been, this whole journey actually has been so cool on the power of the internet.
00:19:51.188 --> 00:19:54.857
To connect because I'm a virtual firm and I'm located in Texas.
00:19:55.198 --> 00:19:59.397
My mastermind group is Bay Area and San Francisco.
00:19:59.397 --> 00:20:01.397
And then the other woman is in Tennessee.
00:20:01.847 --> 00:20:05.448
We've never met in person, but I feel this strong connection with them.
00:20:05.448 --> 00:20:08.377
We've kind of gone through this and we're growing up together with the firms.
00:20:08.827 --> 00:20:10.008
And that's been awesome.
00:20:10.008 --> 00:20:20.167
And then NAPFA is another great resource that's connected me with more of a mentoring circle, creating some of that networking opportunities as well.
00:20:20.218 --> 00:20:23.337
It's really a matter of making sure it's a priority that you show up.
00:20:23.508 --> 00:20:26.137
Even if you don't have a pressing issue to solve.
00:20:26.548 --> 00:20:31.367
One, you could learn from the other questions that get asked by other people on the group.
00:20:31.718 --> 00:20:37.768
You're able to bounce ideas naturally off of people, but when you're just in, I kind of call it the echo chamber.
00:20:37.768 --> 00:20:45.877
I laughed with my group where it's like, this sounded like a great idea when I was just pitching it to myself, but how does this sound against everybody else?
00:20:45.877 --> 00:20:47.438
So it's been valuable.
00:20:47.817 --> 00:20:54.305
Also partnering with even just these other resources, like SCORE is a program through the Small Business Association.
00:20:54.634 --> 00:20:57.234
I got paired with a mentor for free.
00:20:57.545 --> 00:21:00.484
It's a retiree who's specialized in marketing.
00:21:00.944 --> 00:21:09.884
And all of those kind of scaffolding together have helped give me more of a sense of community as I embark on this kind of solo journey.
00:21:09.884 --> 00:21:11.315
It feels less isolating.
00:21:12.256 --> 00:21:13.056
That's wonderful.
00:21:13.056 --> 00:21:19.096
I think it's, So important to feel connection and being a woman in this industry.
00:21:19.096 --> 00:21:20.506
That's part of it, right?
00:21:20.516 --> 00:21:27.556
There's so many more men than there are women, being a solopreneur working from home, It is important to find those connections.
00:21:27.885 --> 00:21:39.701
One of the things I've been thinking about, even for myself, as I continue to build my consulting practice connecting with other people on specific topics like marketing, etc.
00:21:39.701 --> 00:21:45.655
And you mentioned, your mentor Has that been an approach that you've done and has that provided value for you?
00:21:46.490 --> 00:21:48.519
Yeah, no, that was extremely valuable.
00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:49.250
She was great.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:55.779
Very thoughtful, super follow up notes, really added value and pushed me.
00:21:55.779 --> 00:22:00.069
She served as the accountability partner that I try to serve with my clients.
00:22:00.069 --> 00:22:02.140
We would meet and she'd be like, Hey, you said you were going to do this.
00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:02.789
What happened?
00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:04.940
It was really, really valuable.
00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:09.849
One other program I forgot to mention that I was part of is that my husband was in the military.
00:22:10.529 --> 00:22:15.970
And so I was eligible as a military spouse to join a program called Bunker Labs.
00:22:16.890 --> 00:22:30.549
that's a program six month journey where other solopreneurs, other entrepreneurs who are launching things, it doesn't have to be just financial services, but we met on a weekly basis and that it's all about finding the right group.
00:22:30.549 --> 00:22:31.700
That's going to hold you accountable.
00:22:32.154 --> 00:22:33.894
And keep you making progress.
00:22:34.194 --> 00:22:36.444
Yeah, I appreciate that so much.
00:22:36.444 --> 00:22:52.840
I think that's where I'm at even right now in my journey as a, entrepreneur as well is finding that scaffolding of people and then also figuring out what are the places that I like to work and the things I like to do and what are the things that I need to hire out, et cetera.
00:22:53.201 --> 00:23:02.641
I think when you first go independent or you become a solopreneur, You're sorting through those things in real time, like you said, building the plane as you're flying it at the same time.
00:23:03.664 --> 00:23:14.865
totally and trying to really do it all yourself because you're bootstrapping and you need to make it all as lean and mean as possible, but then trying to shift into, okay, that growth mindset of not getting stuck.
00:23:15.450 --> 00:23:17.250
where do I want to be three to five years?
00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:20.220
And what do I need to put in place to get there?
00:23:20.250 --> 00:23:23.829
I recently just started using an AI note taker.
00:23:24.730 --> 00:23:29.849
Realistically, I can take the notes afterwards, but it's been really nice.
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:38.559
One, to just feel like I'm staying current with everything that's happening in the industry, but it's been also great to help optimize my process.
00:23:38.650 --> 00:23:46.910
Some of those notes that are getting captured with the AI note taker, Help alleviate some of the time and pressure that I was putting on myself to take copious notes.
00:23:47.269 --> 00:23:49.329
I can use that as a tool to reference back to.
00:23:49.329 --> 00:24:04.386
So it's finding those things to plug into, but it's also, you don't know what you don't know, and you want to make sure whatever you try works for the longer term so that you're not just too noisy and distracting from the work you're trying to do.
00:24:05.617 --> 00:24:06.698
That's a great point.
00:24:06.748 --> 00:24:15.907
Tell me about what you're doing in order to track maybe leads and leads of potential clients that you might work with and clients.
00:24:15.907 --> 00:24:17.198
Do you use the CRM?
00:24:17.228 --> 00:24:19.688
Is, are you at that point where you needed that yet?
00:24:20.616 --> 00:24:51.811
Yeah, I don't necessarily have to use the CRM right now, but I really like trying to create that as just part of my workflow so that it's natural, everything's documented from a compliance standpoint, but I definitely use the CRM and I've tried different pieces within the CRM to track not only where they are in their journey, that they're currently clients, but also building those workflows to track Prospects, who have I reached out to, tracking some of the marketing efforts that I'm doing, the CRM is valuable for sure.
00:24:51.842 --> 00:24:53.711
And using it before I think I need it.
00:24:53.751 --> 00:24:56.241
You know, part of me in the early days is like, Oh, it's fine.
00:24:56.241 --> 00:25:02.271
I can just do them in the spreadsheet, but the spreadsheet becomes cumbersome and much more time intensive quickly.
00:25:02.311 --> 00:25:08.592
So that's the goal is to make sure that you're using those tools to allow you to free up time to do other things.
00:25:09.222 --> 00:25:09.742
That's right.
00:25:09.823 --> 00:25:20.393
You know, you talked earlier about kind of the growth in this fee only as a method of providing advice and you talked also about your practice and growth goals.
00:25:20.623 --> 00:25:23.553
What are your growth goals for your practice in these next few years?
00:25:26.406 --> 00:25:28.646
where I am, I mean you're similar journey.
00:25:28.821 --> 00:25:34.412
Time is the most precious commodity, you know, trying to balance building this with the school calendars.
00:25:34.412 --> 00:25:35.821
I've got three young kids as well.
00:25:35.821 --> 00:25:42.291
So my five years is to continue to grow, but in a way that doesn't completely burn me out.
00:25:43.041 --> 00:25:48.021
And so finding that balance of how many clients on a regular basis, I do think five to six.
00:25:48.522 --> 00:25:51.622
Just myself is kind of right now my cap.
00:25:51.642 --> 00:25:57.571
So maybe in two to three years, bringing on someone else to continue to grow the business.
00:25:57.612 --> 00:26:05.096
I'm excited about that being kind of the growth strategy going forward because My model does require more time intensive.
00:26:05.126 --> 00:26:16.076
You know, it's not as much just get the assets into the accounts and then I don't talk to someone maybe for a year, maybe two years, but I'm still getting paid by just having those assets on my books.
00:26:16.406 --> 00:26:19.406
Instead, mine is a more time intensive journey.
00:26:20.057 --> 00:26:31.057
And so marrying that balance of kind of what's the right pricing structure that I'm getting the right clients that want to work with me as well as my staffing and kind of my expense side.
00:26:31.057 --> 00:26:42.737
So, right now, I'm kind of in the sweet spot, but in 3 to 5 years, my goal would be hopefully to bring on another planner that would take on some of that client work so that we could grow the number of people were able to serve.
00:26:43.307 --> 00:26:44.147
Oh, that's great.
00:26:44.438 --> 00:26:54.576
I think you'll be able to really grow that impact in the clients, like you said, let's talk about other trends and things that you're seeing in financial planning or in the operations of a practice like you.
00:26:54.875 --> 00:26:57.625
I love this AI conversation that we've been having.
00:26:57.925 --> 00:27:01.855
what other things should advisors be sort of looking for?
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:08.109
The AI and just in general being tech first where clients, you know, I don't see them in person.
00:27:08.109 --> 00:27:26.039
They're not bringing paper documents It's been fascinating to me the psychology not only of people's money, but then also psychology around data and sharing It's been really interesting some clients that I've worked with don't want to share any data They need to redact everything and I say, okay, I want to work with you, but I have to To be able to see some things.
00:27:26.349 --> 00:27:29.339
And then there's other clients that are like, record it, put it anywhere.
00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:29.990
I don't care.
00:27:29.990 --> 00:27:33.130
And they're sending, you know, emails with documents attached.
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:35.619
So it runs the gamut.
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:42.059
That's been one of the trickier parts is just making sure everyone's educated on the right channels, being transparent with the client.
00:27:42.894 --> 00:27:45.684
I sometimes laugh that I'm a bit of the conspiracy theorist.
00:27:45.684 --> 00:27:59.664
You know, I, I do have worries about data and data integrity, so I might be overly concerned, but that's something that I'm really passionate about making sure that the client feels confident that their data is safe.
00:27:59.714 --> 00:28:06.884
It's in a third party vendor, you know, really trying to be as open about how I'm managing all of that as possible.
00:28:07.174 --> 00:28:16.954
So from an operations standpoint, that's the biggest one for me that I worry about is like cyber security and, and it's been interesting trying to educate myself on all of that.
00:28:17.204 --> 00:28:22.809
It's just an interesting world on kind of how to manage the operations and make sure you're doing it correctly.
00:28:23.109 --> 00:28:25.049
what are some of the tools that you're using there?
00:28:25.089 --> 00:28:28.589
Are you using like a Dropbox or is Dropbox secure enough?
00:28:28.589 --> 00:28:33.756
Or what are you choosing for your data sharing, foldering system?
00:28:33.756 --> 00:28:41.885
it's been a little all over the map, but I do lean on those third party vendors to make sure that they're following their protocols.
00:28:42.185 --> 00:28:48.486
The hard part is we can do the best that we can and huge industry players are still hacked.
00:28:48.496 --> 00:28:59.840
You know, so it's, it's a tricky, to navigate and trying to make the client feel as confident as possible that I'm doing the best I can to keep the information secure.
00:29:00.696 --> 00:29:07.527
Yeah, I especially love hearing that you are not using Generally sending those documents through email, etc.
00:29:07.886 --> 00:29:22.666
I've heard of a couple of cases when I was still in the corporate ranks and was working on securities based lending where even things like, ACH instructions and wire instructions Mid email string.
00:29:22.717 --> 00:29:31.606
That email had been hacked and gave me the wrong wire instructions as a bank and now I have wired money somewhere to a fraudster, right?
00:29:31.797 --> 00:29:35.477
Instead of it going to your title company when you were buying a home, as an example.
00:29:36.066 --> 00:29:36.675
Yeah.
00:29:36.935 --> 00:29:38.405
It's, it is crazy.
00:29:38.496 --> 00:29:45.576
One of my first jobs was working actually at the Missouri, Attorney General's office in the Consumer Protection Division.
00:29:45.605 --> 00:29:59.105
So maybe that's what created this conspiracy theorist thing in me of really being hypervigilant on how sneaky some of the things can be on grabbing emails or credit card data at the grocery store.
00:29:59.105 --> 00:30:06.965
it's definitely top of mind for me, especially when I'm trying to implement and incorporate tech tools, in an efficient way.
00:30:07.636 --> 00:30:08.426
Absolutely.
00:30:08.611 --> 00:30:14.691
other piece of the planning process that I do, I'm not a CPA, but I do help with tax strategy.
00:30:14.721 --> 00:30:20.671
And so I do need clients tax returns, which that for me is the most sensitive data that I get.
00:30:20.681 --> 00:30:25.671
You know, I need statements, but it doesn't have social security numbers on it, but the tax documents I do need.
00:30:26.266 --> 00:30:33.096
And so the tool I use is called Holista plan and I'm vigilant on, and they do a great job of data security.
00:30:33.476 --> 00:30:38.385
But those are the things that I worry about as the business owner to kind of think about my vulnerabilities.
00:30:39.037 --> 00:30:40.737
Yeah, you have a great tech stack.
00:30:41.656 --> 00:30:42.836
RightCapital is so good.
00:30:42.836 --> 00:30:46.277
HolistaPlan is really well known and just a great tool.
00:30:46.277 --> 00:30:49.987
I hear advisors all the time singing the praises of HolistaPlan.
00:30:50.366 --> 00:30:53.106
for your CRM, are you using Wealthbox or what do you
00:30:53.286 --> 00:30:54.747
I use, I use Wealthbox.
00:30:55.047 --> 00:30:55.876
I'm a huge fan.
00:30:55.886 --> 00:30:57.166
Huge fan of Wealthbox.
00:30:57.166 --> 00:30:57.247
Yeah,
00:30:57.297 --> 00:31:01.086
and even Holista plan early on when you're like, which ones am I going to incorporate?
00:31:01.086 --> 00:31:03.906
You think, Oh, I can just look at the returns myself.
00:31:04.096 --> 00:31:09.946
It has been such a time saver and a fantastic tool to use on the fly with clients.
00:31:09.967 --> 00:31:11.606
It's invaluable.
00:31:11.906 --> 00:31:19.232
yeah, I hear a lot of times of advisors talking about how they have found errors in client tax returns by running them through Holista plan.
00:31:19.593 --> 00:31:28.702
And either then they can, you know, choose to act on those or not, but it's, it's an interesting conversation sometimes with their CPA partners as a result.
00:31:29.133 --> 00:31:45.692
well we are coming up on time and I want to ask kind of in closing today, what is, what is your advice that you would give to other financial planners who are considering the different models and specifically this fee for advice fee for planning approach.
00:31:47.156 --> 00:31:48.656
gosh, that's a great question.
00:31:48.676 --> 00:32:00.846
So I would encourage people to look around, talk with other advisors who are doing the different models to get a better handle on the pros and cons, because there truly are pros and cons to all of the models.
00:32:01.386 --> 00:32:04.557
And just making sure that whatever route you choose.
00:32:05.291 --> 00:32:11.981
That it's ethical, that it's done according to kind of the way you feel passionate about delivering financial services.
00:32:12.332 --> 00:32:28.251
But I will just toot the horn of recommending exploring all the options and talking to people because it is getting more confusing and the kind of traditional route of just going insurance sales or that AUM model is evolving.
00:32:28.271 --> 00:32:29.882
I think it's exciting to be part of.
00:32:29.882 --> 00:32:31.511
It's just figuring out the right way.
00:32:32.402 --> 00:32:39.281
And how to partner where you don't necessarily have to build your own, but you can kind of fold within a practice in order to get that experience.
00:32:40.278 --> 00:32:55.147
One of the things I just love about this interview and your story is how deeply you are committed to transparency and to transparency with the clients and their fees, transparency in how you work, etc.
00:32:56.237 --> 00:32:57.287
Yeah, it's exciting.
00:32:57.287 --> 00:33:07.346
I'm keen on putting individual investors in the driver's seat so that they feel more knowledgeable about why they hold different things in their investment strategy.
00:33:07.717 --> 00:33:12.856
But then broader than that even, it's the insurance, it's your cash flow, it's what are your goals.
00:33:13.277 --> 00:33:15.987
because it's a lot easier to manage your budget.
00:33:16.436 --> 00:33:23.106
When you're focused on, I want to make sure I can retire at X date or go on this huge trip and keeping those in focus.
00:33:23.116 --> 00:33:29.136
So, really trying to bring the holistic conversation I think it really needs to be more on how we can continue to help.
00:33:29.751 --> 00:33:33.791
Impact clients earlier on their journey so that they can get to the 3 million.
00:33:33.942 --> 00:33:35.912
I was like, how can you be that coach and partner?
00:33:36.611 --> 00:33:38.070
I couldn't agree more.
00:33:38.111 --> 00:33:41.971
Thank you so much, Julia, for being here today on the podcast.
00:33:42.020 --> 00:33:43.211
I really appreciate it.
00:33:43.549 --> 00:33:44.839
Thank you for the conversation.
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:45.339
It was great.
00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:50.809
It was great to see you and excited to be part of your Muriel network and just continue to see this space grow.
00:33:51.171 --> 00:33:54.480
Oh, I can't wait to hear about your practice growth over the next several years.
00:33:54.760 --> 00:33:56.891
I have no doubts that you're going to be so successful.
00:33:56.901 --> 00:33:57.560
Thank you.
00:33:57.842 --> 00:33:58.821
Shelby great to see you.
