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00:00:19.280Welcome, listeners, to a new episode of the Academy Anonymous podcast where we're covering the Oscars.
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00:00:28.079The Oscars took place a little while ago, so we're just going to do our annual post-mortem episode and go over all the major highlights.
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00:00:30.160Um, I'm your co-host, Joseph.
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00:00:33.600And I'm Jules, and thank you all for joining us.
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00:00:40.640Um, before we start, just really quick, make sure to check out our website, framesinflicker.com and our Twitter at Academy Anon.
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00:00:42.240They're both posted on the cover art.
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00:00:47.840And um, yeah, let's do the uh postmortem for the telecast that happened last weekend.
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00:00:51.119Um I think there's a few things to unpack.
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00:00:56.079You know, I think one of the things that sticks out well, first let's talk about this, the ceremony itself.
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00:01:01.119Um uh Conan O'Brien, yeah, you know, it's his second year hosting.
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00:01:01.600Right.
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00:01:03.359You know, I'm a little bit iffy.
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00:01:06.719I don't I don't think Conan O'Brien is the best host.
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00:01:15.599Like when Jimmy Kemo came out for that brief moment, it kind of, you know, remind you know, it made me miss Jimmy Kemo a little bit, who I thought was a very good host.
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00:01:18.640Um, I think some of the comedy bits worked.
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00:01:26.799Um I wasn't a big fan of the first the the uh the opening, the opening video with uh Weapons and the kids.
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00:01:39.439Um, you know, uh it kind of definitely uh revealed, I think, really early on that we were gonna be wrong about our best supporting actress when uh when Amy Madigan and Weapons got such a spotlight.
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00:01:39.840Right.
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00:01:45.760Um and Amy Madigan right now is the number one most looked at actor on IMDB.
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00:01:46.879You know, they're in the ranking.
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00:01:47.599She's number one.
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00:01:49.200Yeah, she's a little wow.
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00:01:50.079Yeah, she is.
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00:01:50.560Wow.
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00:01:51.760Uh, which is crazy.
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00:01:57.920It's incredible the story of the the journey that that film and that performance uh took throughout award season.
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00:01:58.480Right.
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00:02:13.840Um just goes to show that, you know, of course, early on things are gonna be off, but never sleep on those, you know, uh really bright spots that start to happen around mid-year, even maybe possibly even early on ever early in the year.
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00:02:14.240Right.
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00:02:16.800Um, they can have legs if they've got the fans.
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00:02:17.520Right, right.
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00:02:19.520And also depending on the competition, too, right?
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00:02:20.400That's truly true.
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00:02:21.039Yes, absolutely.
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00:02:23.280And we'll talk about supporting actors, but I agree with you.
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00:02:29.520I think that Conan was um not the best choice, but let's be honest, this is a thankless job.
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00:02:34.719There's always a bunch of um criticism and critiques on whoever hosts the ceremony.
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00:02:40.319You could one could argue that no one has ever done a good job, they've just done a good enough job.
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00:02:43.919I mean, I remember those years that Jimmy Kimmel was a host, they were fine.
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00:02:50.639I didn't think they were anything particularly special, but I do think it was a special moment this year when Jimmel when Jimmy Kimmel did come out.
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00:02:56.479Um, and if any year would sort of beg for the presence of Jimmy Kimmel, it would be I agree, I would assume this year.
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00:03:02.960Um, that being said, maybe that was something that um they specifically wanted to avoid, and I'm sure they have their reasons.
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00:03:08.479After all, there was a whole you know Disney Jimmy Kimmel thing anyway.
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00:03:10.000Um, but I agree.
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00:03:13.120Um it was uh it was a it was an okay ceremony.
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00:03:16.560Still, you know, gripes about how they cut off speeches.
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00:03:17.039Yes.
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00:03:22.000Um I'm still pretty disappointed that they didn't find room to include all the original songs.
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00:03:22.879That's really dumb.
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00:03:27.360They only included the uh mega hit Golden and of course Sinners, right?
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00:03:34.800And and the Sinners um sort of you know uh reenactment of that of that very uh important, significant scene in the film, right?
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00:03:36.240I thought it came out nice.
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00:03:37.599Um, but it just sucks.
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00:03:41.599I think it's very low class, I think it's very, you know, uh just poor taste.
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00:03:49.039I also think it's a decision that sort of begs for the category's sort of own extinction, if that makes sense.
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00:04:08.080I'm not I've never been a big proponent for this category, but if you as an awards body and as an organization and as a cultural event are going to defend um the importance of this category, then you should back it up by inviting everyone to perform.
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00:04:15.199Um, and that if you don't find a way to make that marketable to your audience, that's really um that's really your problem.
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00:04:16.240You know what I mean?
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00:04:18.240So it's sort of like you you can't be both.
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00:04:23.759You can't say that this category is really important for it to exist and then not invite the other three songs to perform.
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00:04:26.399I think that was really distasteful, and I completely agree with you.
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00:04:28.800And I think they should completely amend that.
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00:04:29.199Right.
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00:04:34.160And I think this year we were talking about other show, like was lightning speed.
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00:04:34.639Oh, yeah.
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00:04:37.759I felt like the show was went really fast.
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00:04:47.360Um, I still have very fond memories of being a very small kid because we've been doing this a very long time, even if uh Academy Anonymous isn't that old just yet.
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00:04:47.759Right.
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00:04:51.920Um, we have been watching the Oscar since we were itty bitty little things.
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00:05:01.360Um, and I remember that those uh evenings feeling very long with our family, watching the ceremony, not really being sure what was going on.
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00:05:10.160I think one of the first ceremonies that we watched was uh for Titanic, um, because that was a big movie in our childhood, and I think in a lot of people's childhood.
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00:05:10.560Right.
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00:05:16.560Um, but this uh this year's ceremony zipped past, you know, it was so so quick.
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00:05:18.639Maybe it was again that they started at seven.
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00:05:20.879Is that I don't know if that's if that's a new thing.
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00:05:24.800I think I think part of it was that, and I think it was a successful move.
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00:05:25.839Seven Eastern time.
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00:05:26.959Yeah, seven Eastern time.
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00:05:30.319I think that's a successful move, and I think they should continue to do that, in my opinion.
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00:05:31.439That's how I feel about that.
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00:05:44.160I think there are other formatting choices that helped, like, for example, and I think they've done it a few years, but like the whole a pair of presenters get a couple of categories instead of every category gets a new presenter.
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00:05:46.639I think that's a that's been a very successful choice.
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00:05:52.319Yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan of certain, you know, who they got to present certain categories, you know.
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00:05:54.800I just think it was a bit of a mismatch sometimes.
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00:05:59.279I miss a little bit of the gender reversal in the acting categories too.
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00:06:02.480Yeah, you know, I didn't mind it, but I like it more.
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00:06:04.800I liked it more the way that it usually goes.
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00:06:06.319What do you think was behind that decision?
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00:06:07.120I don't know.
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00:06:08.000I don't know.
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00:06:10.639It was it was an odd choice, I think.
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00:06:11.120Yeah.
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00:06:18.560Um I definitely love and you know, I'm always a big fan of starting with supporting actress, starting with a very big meaty category.
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00:06:20.560Um, so that's always fun.
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00:06:29.759I do think some of the presenters like, you know, I don't think that it's it's kind of weird to see Zendaya and Robert Pattinson present best director.
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00:06:36.160Obviously, A24 A24 positioned them really well, even though A24 could not have had a worse night.
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00:06:46.560Um, that being said, you know, like I also think as much as I love each actor, and I think one actor, you know, one actor has just a such a storied career.
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00:06:50.160Um, you have the Bill Pullman and Lewis Pullman.
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00:06:52.800Yeah, I didn't see the point of doing that.
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00:06:53.519I agree 100%.
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00:06:54.720I think the bit really worked.
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00:06:55.839It didn't work too well.
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00:06:58.240And so sometimes it had these like these awkward things.
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00:07:00.160Okay, so the bridesmaids reunion was good.
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00:07:07.439I have liked the idea that if they've you know, I think they've done it for the last couple years of you know, um emphasizing reunions.
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00:07:13.439I have liked that, but I did think it was kind of an odd choice to have the Moulin Rouge reunion be the best picture.
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00:07:14.879What was that?
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00:07:19.759I what I mean, I love Moulin Rouge just as much as everybody, but you know, it's kind of weird for best picture.
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00:07:21.360To me, it's a couple of things.
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00:07:27.040Number one, it's again, this is airing on ABC, owned by Disney, owner of 20th Century Fox.
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00:07:29.680That was a 20th Century Fox best picture nominee.
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00:07:30.160100%.
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00:07:42.639But I refuse to believe that I am so old as to have the presenters like be these legacy um, you know, presenters, uh individuals who are involved with these big important movies.
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00:07:44.560And and and it's Moulin Rouge.
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00:07:49.519Like I'm used to seeing like, oh, on the Star Wars, a new hope team is coming out, you know what I mean?
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00:07:54.639Um, and and for it to be Moulin Rouge, it just makes me feel incredibly old, right?
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00:08:00.480Um so yeah, and again, Moulin Rouge, yeah, you know, they they didn't give the Oscar to Moulin Rouge.
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00:08:04.000They and Moulin Rouge, I think, maybe came out third that year.
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00:08:06.399Yeah, Behind Lord of the Rings, Behind the Beautiful Mind.
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00:08:08.800So it was it was an awkward, odd, odd.
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00:08:12.319Yeah, it was an odd choice, it was a very odd choice.
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00:08:18.319Um, and the bit was kind of awkward to yeah, but in general, I like the re the reunion idea.
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00:08:23.839You know, I do like you know, everyone likes seeing you know films that they're fond of and the cast reuniting.
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00:08:52.399Let's talk about I think a very important moment that people have talked about, which is the in memorium, yes, um, which I feel um was uh took a different uh path this year by spotlighting specific um uh filmmakers, um, and uh having you know uh people who've worked with those filmmakers, actors who've worked with those filmmakers, uh just have a more of a space, a moment to speak on their legacy and their work.
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00:08:53.440And I liked that.
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00:09:01.279I thought that that felt appropriate, especially for the amount of storied careers and filmmakers that we lost this year.
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00:09:08.320Um, I know there's always gripes about who's left out uh left off of the in memoriam, so that's always a controversy.
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00:09:08.639Right.
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00:09:18.559But in general, you know, taking a moment to spotlight, you know, Robert Bradford and Rob Reiner and Um Kathy O'Hara and Diane Keaton.
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00:09:20.159I thought that was appropriate.
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00:09:21.039Uh, what'd you think?
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00:09:28.559I think it was appropriate, but I think they always went into the issue where like un undoubtedly some people feel, you know, snubbed or some looked over.
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00:09:30.720Um, I'm sorry, excuse me, overlooked.
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00:09:38.000Um could you have someone there recognizing the immense contribution that Frederick Wiseman has done to nonfiction filmmaking?
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00:09:38.320Yes.
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00:09:40.879Are you gonna be able to sell you know advertising that way?
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00:09:41.600No, you're not.
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00:09:43.360Um Robert Duval.
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00:09:46.799I mean, how can you not have something for Robert Duval?
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00:09:47.919That's just kind of crazy.
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00:09:52.639I mean, yeah, Robert Duvall, Robert Redford, you know, they're shoulder to shoulder.
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00:09:52.960Yeah.
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00:09:55.759Um, and so it's a little bit of a mixed bag.
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00:09:58.399I think you pointed out something that I thought was interesting.
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00:10:03.039Um, and we can keep talking about it, but one thing that I did want to say was omissions.
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00:10:15.519So the people did have commentary about the omission, for example, of James Vanderby and the late Eric Kane, um, which is interesting because it's certainly been, you know, at the forefront of poke uh culture.
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00:10:27.360Um certainly because they are, you know, such um uh early deaths in these individuals in these creative artists' lives and hugely impacting for people who grew up with their work.
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00:10:36.960You had mentioned something interesting, which is the idea that I don't know if the Academy responded this way, but uh they were not officially Academy members.
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00:10:44.879I heard I I read somewhere from a from a tweet or something that m they possibly weren't mentioned because they weren't Academy members, possibly.
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00:11:00.080And I want to just broach that idea because the Academy has a real problem in their hands, in my opinion, because you have these, you know, these deaths that are gonna happen, you know, um, from people who are involved in the industry, and they have to have a clear policy.
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00:11:19.919Because if you're gonna sell your audience and you're gonna sell um your viewers and culture, people who observe the culture, and you're gonna tell them that Eric Dane and James Vanderbeek are missing because they were not Academy members, then what are you gonna do when Ryan Kugler passes, who has also rejected Academy membership?
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00:11:23.519What are you gonna do when Terrence Malik passes and he has rejected Academy membership?
00:11:23.679 -->
00:11:24.960Maybe So what's your policy gonna be able to do that?
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00:11:29.440Maybe the bridge is that you know there are Academy Award nominees and winners.
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00:11:31.759Um in Ryan Kugler's case.
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00:11:33.759I uh I mean So that kind of makes up for that.
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00:11:35.279So what's gonna happen to Terence Malik?
00:11:35.440 -->
00:11:37.120Because Terence Malik has never won an Academy Award.
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00:11:38.799But he's an Academy Award nominee.
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00:11:49.279So I guess maybe then that should be the cutoff that you you're either an Academy Award nominee or an Academy Award member or a winner.
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00:11:56.879I just feel like why don't you get ahead of it and tell viewers that and announce it, and then the expectation will be different.
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00:12:00.960And we can have a discussion on whether that's the appropriate policy.
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00:12:06.639I remember like one year they left off, I believe Brad Renfro, um, another young man who passed away.
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00:12:17.600Um and so to me, we can only have an official discussion if you're giving us what the correct parameters are so that we can, you know, build our expectations around that.
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00:12:18.000Right.
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00:12:33.120You know, two things about the in memorium before we move on to the next topic is um two things that I wasn't crazy about, even if generally I, you know, just in general, I like the space that they made, you know, to highlight these uh these careers and these filmmakers.
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00:12:38.960The Rob Reiner uh segment, I thought it was a little bit strange to have all these actors come out.
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00:12:40.159Okay, that was nice.
00:12:40.639 -->
00:12:47.360Um, you know, actors that represent some of his uh greatest achievements in filmmaking, but they just kind of stood there.
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00:12:47.679Right.
00:12:47.759 -->
00:12:50.879You know, it could have been more interactive, more of an active presentation.
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00:12:56.639To me, like it it missed a little bit of that potency that I think they were aiming for, having these actors come out and just stand there.
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00:13:01.039It kind of felt almost like self-congratulate, self-congratulatory in a way.
00:13:01.279 -->
00:13:05.919You know, are we clapping because these are great actors and they were in great movies?
00:13:06.320 -->
00:13:09.279Or are we celebrating Rob Reiner and his work?
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00:13:11.919I I feel like the bridge wasn't concrete enough for me.
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00:13:12.320Right.
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00:13:18.320Um, and then uh Barbara Streisand doing the homage to Robert Rufford.
00:13:18.399 -->
00:13:20.240I, you know, I'm sure they're they were very close.
00:13:20.399 -->
00:13:28.320Obviously, you know, they seemed to have had a very close relationship, but you know, I did feel that it was a little bit too sentimental, was a little bit schmaltzy.
00:13:28.720 -->
00:13:35.679And I was very interested that, you know, over the the the week we learned that Jane Fonda had some thoughts about that.
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00:13:36.720Wow.
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00:13:44.879And I would have liked to have seen Jane Fonda give, you know, uh an homage to Robert Redford, and that would have been that would have been nice.
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00:13:50.799Um, I just I wasn't crazy about the actual execution of the Barbara Streisand Robert Redford.
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00:13:52.879Okay, I I I get that.
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00:13:55.759Um, and I can I I see where you're coming from.
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00:14:07.200I think it's kind of weird to have all these actors gather for Rob Reiner because you could have that for so many of the people that you gave an actual minute to maybe expand a little bit more on their loss.
00:14:07.440 -->
00:14:09.039Robert Redford, Diane Keaton.
00:14:09.200 -->
00:14:10.799Um, you could have done that as well.
00:14:11.120 -->
00:14:26.240Um, I think maybe the only thing I can think of is that the the the death of of Rob of Rob Reiner um and his wife and partner was so impactful to anyone who observes the industry that they wanted to give it a very special moment, a very significant moment.
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00:14:27.679That's the only thing I can think of.
00:14:28.000 -->
00:14:39.279But I still think it would have been more dynamic to have had more of those actors' voice, a few of their feelings, a few of their experiences with so I do think you're sort of missing the boat there.
00:14:39.679 -->
00:14:43.919Um and I do think that the Barbara Streisand moment can be a little bit sentimental.
00:14:44.000 -->
00:14:46.240Um, it's always nice to see Barbara Streisand.
00:14:46.399 -->
00:14:49.360Um, and I do think it's an appropriate person to invite.
00:14:50.080 -->
00:14:53.440Would I have loved a dual presentation between her and Jane Fonda?
00:14:53.519 -->
00:14:54.559I think that would have been epic.
00:14:54.960 -->
00:15:06.159At the same time, to me, it's even more fascinating in the sense that Jane Fonda is not there and Jane Fonda is wearing sort of, I think, a pin to the after party or something, talking about um no merger.
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00:15:20.720And so, why does it feel to me a little bit like you know, we shouldn't invite Jane Fonda because she may be a little bit more vocal vocal about things that we would rather avoid at this moment, and you don't want to have her wearing that pin when David Zaslav's in the audience.
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00:15:21.440That's a very good point.
00:15:22.000 -->
00:15:23.600Um, so I I think that's part of it.
00:15:23.679 -->
00:15:26.080Um, and I think that's politically motivated a little bit.
00:15:26.320 -->
00:15:26.720Yeah, certainly.
00:15:26.799 -->
00:15:28.559I think that and that's a little bit distasteful.
00:15:28.720 -->
00:15:28.879Yeah.
00:15:29.120 -->
00:15:31.840Um, but the intentions are always good with In Memorium.
00:15:31.919 -->
00:15:41.200The problem, I think, in my opinion, is that the expectations are so high, and the moment I think has come for the Academy to really address how they're gonna handle it um from here on out.
00:15:41.360 -->
00:15:45.519And I think there are plenty of of really good opportunities for them to exploit, and we'll see if that happens.
00:15:45.600 -->
00:15:47.600Um, but yeah, sort of a mixed bag, like always.
00:15:48.000 -->
00:15:48.879What about speeches?
00:15:48.960 -->
00:15:53.200I feel like, you know, it was a bummer that Sean Penn didn't show up.
00:15:53.360 -->
00:15:57.919Yes, um, he's doing humanitarian work in Ukraine, but still, you know, it would have been nice.
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00:16:08.320I know he's been very critical of the Oscars um as of late over the last few years, uh, in part because of how he feels they've dealt with the uh Ukraine issue conflict.
00:16:08.559 -->
00:16:15.440Um, and so, but you know, it's kind of a bummer uh because it's his third Oscar, you know, and who knows if he gets another Oscar after this.
00:16:15.679 -->
00:16:16.080Unlikely.
00:16:16.240 -->
00:16:19.840Uh right, especially now after having skipped.
00:16:20.000 -->
00:16:34.399Um, or you know, honestly, the fact that Robert Robert, the fact that Sean Penn was able to win uh the category and not having shown up at the BAFTA, not having shown up at the SAG, winning both those.
00:16:34.639 -->
00:16:40.480Um, there was a lot of interviews pre- you know, one battles, dominance on the award circuit.
00:16:40.639 -->
00:16:44.480Um, but you know, very silent after that, after got the nominations and whatnot.
00:16:44.559 -->
00:16:56.799And he was still able to win, I think, goes to show that despite how critical he might be of the academy and the Oscars, he's a very respected and and and admired actor, you know, to those to those who are actually voting.
00:16:57.039 -->
00:17:09.440What I think is sort of interesting about that moment for supporting actor, um, and I don't know if you want to start digging into categories or highlights, but I think it's an interesting moment that you pointed out, the Kieran Colkin sort of delivery at the end, you know.
00:17:09.519 -->
00:17:10.880I kind of admire that.
00:17:11.119 -->
00:17:17.119The sort of like, you know, I'm just gonna I could say that I'm gonna accept it on his behalf, or I can just sort of say, yeah, he doesn't really want to be here.
00:17:17.279 -->
00:17:26.880And I kind of admire that upfrontness, the same way that I'm not beyond admiration for Sean Penn's, you know, talking down at the academy and then not showing up.
00:17:26.960 -->
00:17:29.440Yeah, you know, putting putting your money where you're yeah, I agree.
00:17:29.920 -->
00:17:30.960I agree, I agree with that.
00:17:31.279 -->
00:17:41.519I kind of like the consistency of their I I don't agree with a lot of what with what they do, and I I disagree with a lot of things that they've done, and so I'm just not gonna show up.
00:17:41.599 -->
00:17:45.039And so I do except he didn't show up at the SAG or the BAFTA either.
00:17:45.200 -->
00:17:46.880And maybe he feels the same way.
00:17:47.279 -->
00:17:49.119Maybe he feels the same way.
00:17:49.440 -->
00:17:54.799Um, I remember a few years ago when like Joe Pesci didn't show up to anything, but he did show up to the Oscars.
00:17:55.119 -->
00:17:55.519Did he?
00:17:55.680 -->
00:17:56.400I think he did, yeah.
00:17:56.480 -->
00:17:56.880I'm pretty sure.
00:17:56.960 -->
00:17:58.079And we're talking about Irishman, right?
00:17:58.160 -->
00:17:59.440Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did.
00:17:59.599 -->
00:18:08.319Um I will say, in my opinion, it was also one of the more contentious moments when you have the camera on the other nominees, which is which is great.
00:18:08.400 -->
00:18:09.839Oh they should never get rid of it.
00:18:10.000 -->
00:18:10.240Never.
00:18:10.400 -->
00:18:12.960But they were a lot of, in my opinion, bummed.
00:18:13.519 -->
00:18:14.480I think there was only one.
00:18:14.640 -->
00:18:18.400I think in supporting actor, the one bummed face was like I disagree.
00:18:18.640 -->
00:18:20.319Hey, this guy didn't even show up here.
00:18:20.559 -->
00:18:28.240I think Daryl London Deroy was upset that Sean didn't even show up, and you know, he's been working for so long, and he's finally been nominated.
00:18:28.480 -->
00:18:30.160He didn't uh get the win.
00:18:30.319 -->
00:18:33.039Um I don't think Stellan was very excited about it.
00:18:33.200 -->
00:18:35.039I think Benicio was it was happy.
00:18:35.200 -->
00:18:35.599Right.
00:18:35.759 -->
00:18:40.079Um, and I don't think Jacob was surprised, but that was sort of a funny moment.
00:18:40.319 -->
00:18:40.559Right.
00:18:40.640 -->
00:18:50.160Um I thought it was nice to see later on in the week um that the uh you know um they gave him a mock Oscar in made out of materials that were destroyed by the Russians.
00:18:50.400 -->
00:18:51.039You know, that was nice.
00:18:51.200 -->
00:18:51.759It was sweet.
00:18:52.000 -->
00:19:01.440Um you know, for it's a very brief video, but in the video it it seems like he's touched, yeah, you know, and so I don't think the achievement is like lost on him.
00:19:01.680 -->
00:19:04.319Um I just think he has different priorities, right?
00:19:04.400 -->
00:19:08.799Um, which I again, as we just we just said, I kind of respect a little bit to be honest.
00:19:08.960 -->
00:19:09.200Right.
00:19:09.440 -->
00:19:27.440Um, but uh what a surprise that was, you know, in terms of not that he won the Oscar, but that he would go on to win the Oscar, you know, because actually when the year started, he seemed like a perfect candidate to win, just considering that, you know, it was uh assumed that he was gonna be the villain, the antagonist.
00:19:27.920 -->
00:19:40.720But then the movie comes out, and you know, people are they love everybody from the cast, people have different favorites, and then Stan Skarsgar was such an early favorite from Can and just seemed to fit the bill of what would win that category.
00:19:40.880 -->
00:19:48.240Then Benicio ends up, you know, uh winning most of the uh regional critics groups, um, and then it just ends up being Champagne again.
00:19:48.319 -->
00:19:53.839So this full circle moment at one point there was a debate is is Lockjaw just too unlikable.
00:19:54.319 -->
00:20:02.720Um, I think it was obviously an interesting moment because you have Champagne joining the big three group, and so he joins Daniel DeLewis.
00:20:02.799 -->
00:20:09.920Um, I think his win mirrors a little bit more closely someone like uh Jack Nicholson with two leads and one supporting.
00:20:10.000 -->
00:20:12.880I think that inevitably helped that he had never won a supporting Oscar.
00:20:13.119 -->
00:20:13.440I agree.
00:20:13.599 -->
00:20:18.960Um, but he does join the three club, um and very few people have it all in in lead.
00:20:19.119 -->
00:20:25.680Um I think just I think Daniel and Francis um maybe Catherine Hepburn who has a leading four.
00:20:25.839 -->
00:20:27.519Um but yeah, that was interesting.
00:20:27.599 -->
00:20:30.559I I wonder what other highlights there were for you in the night.
00:20:30.640 -->
00:20:37.119And I think there was a I think despite our critiques on the actual presentation, it was a pretty historic night.
00:20:37.440 -->
00:20:37.680Right.
00:20:37.759 -->
00:20:43.519So is there another moment that um you really loved in terms of a highlight of the entire thing?
00:20:43.839 -->
00:20:50.720Well, speaking about, you know, uh history, uh Sinners winning cinematography, that was a big historical moment.
00:20:51.039 -->
00:20:51.680That was great.
00:20:51.759 -->
00:20:52.559Yeah, it was great.
00:20:52.640 -->
00:21:06.880And we had And one of the surprises of the night because even though Sinners was an early favorite, um, one battle had gotten a lot of steam with the BAFTA win or with the ASC win, and it seemed like it was one battle for the taking, and then all of a sudden Sinners wins.
00:21:07.200 -->
00:21:14.960And you have to go back a little while to see the last time that a winner from BAFTA and the cinematographer's guild, the ASC, didn't end up winning.
00:21:15.039 -->
00:21:21.359And I think by and large, the community that predicts who's gonna win had sided with Michael Bauman.
00:21:21.599 -->
00:21:24.319Nonetheless, it was great to see Autumn win.
00:21:24.480 -->
00:21:30.079Um, I think she had a terrific speech, asked all the women in the audience to stand up.
00:21:30.319 -->
00:21:32.480Yeah, um, her son was there.
00:21:32.720 -->
00:21:41.839I believe Ryan, you know, um helped bring this uh her son uh to her seat so that he could get a better view of seeing Autumn win.
00:21:42.079 -->
00:21:45.839Um that was a spectacular moment, and certainly a highlight.
00:21:46.319 -->
00:21:52.559Very, you know, uh such a such a significant moment for you know the history of the Academy Awards and of cinema.
00:21:52.799 -->
00:21:53.119Yeah.
00:21:53.359 -->
00:21:55.519Um but a surprise, you know.
00:21:55.680 -->
00:21:59.759I didn't expect because you know, I initially I was surprised that Centers was getting passed off.
00:22:00.319 -->
00:22:10.480For towards the end, one battle after another and these bigger awards bodies, but also in a lot of the regional uh you know presentations or organizations were giving it to train dreams.
00:22:10.720 -->
00:22:15.680So it just felt like the passion wasn't beh there behind um centers.
00:22:16.240 -->
00:22:23.359And then we had heard that you know people were a little bit critical with some of the you know visual work in centers, right?
00:22:23.440 -->
00:22:27.359Um, and that maybe that was one reason why it wasn't winning more things.
00:22:27.519 -->
00:22:27.839Right.
00:22:28.000 -->
00:22:37.359Um, I think it came down to you know uh in the category, maybe they just felt that Sinners was the showiest.
00:22:37.519 -->
00:22:40.640Um, and usually the showiest wins in this category.
00:22:41.519 -->
00:22:42.319You're absolutely right.
00:22:42.559 -->
00:22:47.119Um, even though one battle might have been my personal pick, I think it was yours as well.
00:22:47.359 -->
00:22:51.839Um Sinners is yes, it's just you know, just on a conceptual level, the showyest one.
00:22:52.079 -->
00:22:54.880And I think also it's not just the showyest one.
00:22:54.960 -->
00:22:59.519I think sometimes it's also like the most, you know, for lack of a better word, commercial.
00:22:59.839 -->
00:23:12.559And so like I remember when something like Inception wins over Yo2 Grit, um, despite them both being very um big commercial successes, I think a lot of it is just the idea that, you know, um Inception was the blockbuster of them.
00:23:12.720 -->
00:23:18.400And so between One Battle and Sinners, yes, One Battle has VistaVision and you could market that.
00:23:18.720 -->
00:23:30.960Just the idea that Sinners was the blockbuster of the two, I think gives it a little bit of the edge or gave it a little bit of the edge, but I also think history um was a part of it, and I think you couldn't ask for a more deserving winner.
00:23:31.039 -->
00:23:33.119Um, and I think that was a great moment.
00:23:33.440 -->
00:23:45.759Um so I think now maybe the lens turns to BAFTA, which has not broken that history because the guild has already um awarded, for example, Mandy Walker for her work in Elvis.
00:23:45.839 -->
00:23:48.960Now the Oscars have um awarded Autumn for her work on Center.
00:23:49.119 -->
00:23:54.480So it turns to the guild as to when the guild is gonna have that moment, and I I I I will observe that with interest.
00:23:54.880 -->
00:24:03.839Um, but in terms of you know history-making moments, we should really talk about casting, which was a great, great, great, great moment.
00:24:04.240 -->
00:24:06.079It was actually a great moment in full stop.
00:24:06.160 -->
00:24:09.680I love the presentation of having actors come out five of them.
00:24:09.920 -->
00:24:11.519Um, I kind of miss that a little bit.
00:24:11.599 -->
00:24:14.720I know it's a little showy, it's a little kind of you know, and too long.
00:24:14.799 -->
00:24:15.279It's too long.
00:24:15.359 -->
00:24:17.519You can't know I do like it.
00:24:17.599 -->
00:24:25.839I do like you know having you know past winners come out and you know, um one per nominee, and you got five people there.
00:24:25.920 -->
00:24:27.359Yeah, I do shaking the microphone.
00:24:27.440 -->
00:24:30.079I have to say I do say I do like it.
00:24:30.160 -->
00:24:32.000Um, but I really liked it here in casting.
00:24:32.079 -->
00:24:33.920I felt I thought it was very appropriate.
00:24:34.000 -->
00:24:35.039Um yes, I agree.
00:24:35.119 -->
00:24:45.359So you had Winnof Powdra in there from Marty Supreme, you had Chase Infinity one bad after another, Brighton Morr for a secret agent, uh Hamnet, uh Paul Paul Mask was snubbed.
00:24:45.440 -->
00:24:47.039So you had a lot of the snubbed people come out.
00:24:47.279 -->
00:24:47.759Del Rolando.
00:24:48.960 -->
00:24:53.759You had a lot of snubbed people who did not get nominations come out and like shout out their casting.
00:24:54.160 -->
00:24:56.960Well, there's only one person on that stage who doesn't have a nomination.
00:24:57.200 -->
00:24:59.440And that's and that's just you're right.
00:24:59.599 -->
00:25:00.960Well, you're right.
00:25:01.440 -->
00:25:03.200Which again, she should have been there.
00:25:03.359 -->
00:25:07.279Um, but uh most of them were not nominees that year.
00:25:07.359 -->
00:25:21.279So I'm saying they didn't invite Jesse Buckley to talk about Hamlet, nor did they invite Timothy Chalamet to talk about um Marty Supreme, but instead they I liked the idea that they were spotlighting some of those people who were not going to have the camera in front of them because they were not nominated.
00:25:21.440 -->
00:25:32.480I agree, with the exception of Daryl Lindo, which in reality, in my opinion, again, Daryl Lindo is just such an elegant speaker, so I understand why you want him up there to deliver that that moment um for their casting director.
00:25:32.640 -->
00:25:34.960I think it would have been great to see Miles there personally.
00:25:35.119 -->
00:25:39.680Um, I'm so so happy about that.
00:25:39.839 -->
00:25:41.680But you're right, I love the presentation of it.
00:25:41.759 -->
00:25:42.799It was super appropriate.
00:25:42.880 -->
00:25:52.079It was history-making because it was the first time it ever happened, but it was also, in our opinion, right, a history-making moment because I think that's when the night shifted.
00:25:52.319 -->
00:25:57.440I think we came in to the Oscars saying this really feels neck and neck.
00:25:57.599 -->
00:26:01.519Is it gonna be more wins for sinners, but the biggest win for one battle?
00:26:01.839 -->
00:26:04.559The most wins for one battle, but the biggest win for sinners.
00:26:04.720 -->
00:26:06.960Are they gonna end up tying or something like that?
00:26:07.039 -->
00:26:11.440And then I think this is the moment where it became clear, okay, we know what kind of night it's gonna be.
00:26:11.759 -->
00:26:18.319Yeah, you know, that was one of my favorite awards also, um, because I thought that the film that deserved to win the most won.
00:26:18.799 -->
00:26:21.359I was very happy we got it wrong, as did most people.
00:26:21.680 -->
00:26:22.400Most people were predicting.
00:26:22.480 -->
00:26:23.440I think everybody got it wrong.
00:26:23.680 -->
00:26:29.200Most people were predicting it went for sinners, and it was certainly a favorite for the majority of the Oscar race this year.
00:26:29.599 -->
00:26:30.000Right.
00:26:30.160 -->
00:26:34.880Um, uh, but I s I I'm I was so happy to see that one battle won that.
00:26:34.960 -->
00:26:37.519I I did think it was the best in the category.
00:26:37.680 -->
00:26:40.160Um, it would have been my personal choice as well.
00:26:40.480 -->
00:26:42.319And I'm not surprised that it won.
00:26:42.400 -->
00:26:46.160You know, and I almost wish I had maybe well, I don't know, it was very tough.
00:26:46.240 -->
00:26:46.799It was a tough call.
00:26:47.039 -->
00:26:47.440No way.
00:26:47.519 -->
00:26:47.920There's no way.
00:26:48.160 -->
00:26:57.200I mean, it would have been a really I my hat off to my hats off to anyone who was able to get that right, even though it was obviously a formidable contender there.
00:26:57.440 -->
00:27:00.960Just I think most people really felt that it would end up going to Sinners.
00:27:01.279 -->
00:27:10.960Yeah, just in my impression, and again, Sinners has a terrific cast, and that's such an integral ingredient element of the film that lends to its success.
00:27:11.200 -->
00:27:25.920But in my opinion, you know, there's just not one part wasted in uh one battle, even the smallest part, two lines, feels you know, uh deliberate and thoughtful as to the casting choices.
00:27:26.079 -->
00:27:29.039And so I was a really big fan of that win.
00:27:29.200 -->
00:27:30.640Um, that was the highlight for me.
00:27:30.880 -->
00:27:33.920I'm so excited to see how this category evolves over time.
00:27:34.079 -->
00:27:42.880I think we're because I do think people were disappointed overall with the nominations, like the nomination, the nominees for the category that were a little bit predictable, familiar.
00:27:42.960 -->
00:27:48.799There was minus the secret agent, which was great, a great, great uh inclusion.
00:27:49.039 -->
00:27:52.480But in general, it was the same movies that we were seeing in other categories.
00:27:52.640 -->
00:27:59.599And this is an opportunity to highlight, you know, movies like the secret agent that you wouldn't expect to be in there, but that absolutely deserve to be on there.
00:27:59.839 -->
00:28:13.440But it's kind of fun, I think, also, because going forward we'll have sort of like a new chess piece on um the table because what we learned was all four acting nominees came from this category.
00:28:13.519 -->
00:28:16.319I'm sorry, all four acting winners came from this category, right?
00:28:16.720 -->
00:28:18.720Um No, no, weapons.
00:28:19.200 -->
00:28:20.799Oh, excuse me, weapons, you're right.
00:28:20.960 -->
00:28:22.160Um minus weapons.
00:28:22.559 -->
00:28:26.319Minus weapons, three of the winners came from this uh category.
00:28:26.880 -->
00:28:28.400Thank you for calling me out on that.
00:28:28.640 -->
00:28:37.680Um the other thing I think that's interesting is the winner here was the film with the most acting nominations, right?
00:28:37.839 -->
00:28:41.519One battle ended up winning this and it had one more nomination over Sinners.
00:28:41.759 -->
00:28:46.720Could that have you know maybe illuminated why it would break towards One Battle?
00:28:46.880 -->
00:29:11.119Um obviously not even though I want to say, and I'll just bring this up really quick, and I'm sorry to for interrupting you, but you know, thinking back on even when the nominations came out, you and I you and I discussed this, and I don't know if we mentioned it in the episode that was discussing the nominations, but they resisted giving any film more than four acting nominations, and they had the opportunity to do so with one battle, especially after those.
00:29:12.720 -->
00:29:15.200Especially after those SAG nominations.
00:29:15.680 -->
00:29:20.400And so it almost feels like this academy is very hesitant.
00:29:20.799 -->
00:29:29.440You know, the voting body as a whole, at least those who pick the uh the nominees, they're very hesitant to break that, you know, threshold of more than four.
00:29:29.680 -->
00:29:29.920Right.
00:29:30.079 -->
00:29:31.839Um which wasn't the case in the 70s.
00:29:32.079 -->
00:29:33.200Yeah, I think you're right.
00:29:33.359 -->
00:29:36.160Um I think that's something to be aware of.
00:29:36.400 -->
00:29:39.119Um why it breaks towards one battle.
00:29:39.279 -->
00:29:46.799I wonder if it's a little bit not unrelated to what we're saying about cinematography and it breaking for the big blockbuster, Sinners.
00:29:47.039 -->
00:29:59.200Maybe here, I think maybe it hurts that Sinners is the bigger blockbuster, and they instead wanted to give it to a film that was a little bit more of a, you know, a glorified, uh big budgeted independent film, so to speak.
00:29:59.359 -->
00:30:08.480And then the other factor I think that we can talk about is just the idea that you know, you had such esteemed names in this category, including Nina Gold and Francine Mazler.
00:30:08.640 -->
00:30:26.880Um, but maybe something that helped this break for one battle after another in terms of sort of the industry vote here and and the people voting are very much people involved in the industry, is just the idea that the relationship between Paul Thomas Anderson and Cassandra is uh they've had a longer tenure together.
00:30:27.200 -->
00:30:30.880And maybe that was part of the reason why one battle ended up getting the edge here.
00:30:31.119 -->
00:30:32.319Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
00:30:32.640 -->
00:30:34.880Um, but yeah, really strong historic moment.
00:30:34.960 -->
00:30:36.240I like the way it was presented.
00:30:36.319 -->
00:30:38.559Um, it was a really meaningful moment in the night.
00:30:38.720 -->
00:30:41.279Um, so that's that was a highlight for me.
00:30:41.440 -->
00:30:53.920Um, we have to talk about another history-making moment, which was the category of best live action short film, which they could not have gotten a better presenter for, in my opinion, and Kameo Nanjani.
00:30:54.240 -->
00:30:55.200Um, so what did you think?
00:30:55.519 -->
00:31:00.240I thought I thought Kameo did a really good job, you know, under the pressure of having to deliver a tie.
00:31:00.799 -->
00:31:09.200Um uh I thought what he said about the irony of that, you know, uh having that tie happen in a short film.
00:31:09.519 -->
00:31:10.079Absolutely brilliant.
00:31:10.400 -->
00:31:10.640Right.
00:31:10.799 -->
00:31:16.960Um, you know, I was happy to see the tie because we didn't get it wrong because we predict the singers.
00:31:17.039 -->
00:31:17.920We predicted the singers.
00:31:18.079 -->
00:31:18.559We did.
00:31:18.720 -->
00:31:24.480Um, it was unfortunate though that most people were predicting per girl derby um to people who changing saliva.
00:31:24.559 -->
00:31:24.720Yeah.
00:31:24.880 -->
00:31:26.160So we couldn't get that extra point.
00:31:26.400 -->
00:31:29.039We thought that, man, maybe this is where we can make up a few points.
00:31:29.359 -->
00:31:38.319And I I felt really happy for us that we kind of understood after seeing all of the uh short films that you know the singers really was being uh slept on.
00:31:38.559 -->
00:31:40.319Made a lot of sense for for a win here.
00:31:40.480 -->
00:31:40.720Yeah.
00:31:40.960 -->
00:31:50.400Um you know, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have maybe I'm mistaken here, but I wouldn't have guessed that two people of Shiny Saliva would end up winning.
00:31:50.640 -->
00:31:56.640And it ended up being, you know, the day right before, I mean the day of even Gold Derby, it became the favorite to win.
00:31:56.960 -->
00:32:01.680And so when when they said tie, I was hoping that it wasn't two people at the time.
00:32:01.839 -->
00:32:02.960Okay, but who did you think it was?
00:32:03.119 -->
00:32:06.559I mean, obviously you hoped one was the singers, and who did you think the other thing?
00:32:06.640 -->
00:32:08.720I thought the other one was the number one gold derby pick, yeah.
00:32:08.960 -->
00:32:10.720Which was uh two people changed allowed.
00:32:10.960 -->
00:32:15.359I thought there was a chance that it could have been um a friend of Dorothy.
00:32:15.680 -->
00:32:20.319Um I was really happy that they said the singers, and so I was really excited about that.
00:32:20.480 -->
00:32:24.640There was a lot of reasons why we went with it, but I'm glad it turned out well.
00:32:24.799 -->
00:32:34.480Um I just I just love the idea, and we talked about it, that this historic moment, I think there's been seven ties, is what I've read, I think, at the Oscars.
00:32:34.720 -->
00:32:39.920Um the most recent one being which another another really interesting moment in the night in 2012.
00:32:40.160 -->
00:32:41.119Yeah, Zero Dark 30.
00:32:41.359 -->
00:32:56.240Yeah, when Zero Dark 30 was able to pull out or sneak out one win um for sound editing, um, tying with Skyfall, which again was really uh really louder film that year was only able to uh well, no, it got songs, so it was able to sneak out that win as well.
00:32:56.480 -->
00:32:57.839So that was a really interesting moment.
00:32:57.920 -->
00:33:01.680I remember Mark Wahlberg, I believe, delivered in 2012.
00:33:01.759 -->
00:33:05.599Um, for the films 20 uh 12 and March of 2013.
00:33:05.680 -->
00:33:09.119Um, but that's the last time we had a tie, um, which actually isn't that far.
00:33:09.200 -->
00:33:09.680What is that?
00:33:09.759 -->
00:33:14.720Like uh 12 years, no, uh 14 years, yeah, been 14 years.
00:33:14.799 -->
00:33:16.240Um, so it's excellent to see.
00:33:16.319 -->
00:33:17.599I just we talked about it.
00:33:17.759 -->
00:33:22.960I love the idea that of all the categories to tie, it was a live action short film.
00:33:23.119 -->
00:33:31.119Because to me, that just reads that a lot of voters participated in the category and there was a lot of passion for those particular films.
00:33:31.359 -->
00:33:43.039Um, I think it's interesting in the sense that you and I went um through debating all year is there enough room in this category for these films that mirror each other's energies and in good ways?
00:33:43.200 -->
00:33:48.720Again, we want to say that live action short film this year was one of the strongest categories ever for live action short film.
00:33:48.880 -->
00:33:57.839And so we had a uh a debate um all year whether there is enough room to recognize Jane Austen's period drama and a friend of Dorothy, and there was.
00:33:58.000 -->
00:34:06.720We had a debate is there enough room to to nominate these really these really idiosyncratic works like The Singers and Um Two People Exchanging Speaker.
00:34:06.880 -->
00:34:10.239Yeah, because we had seen a lot of these film these short films of other festivals ahead of time.
00:34:10.480 -->
00:34:10.719Exactly.
00:34:10.880 -->
00:34:18.800And we had a we were already thinking, yeah, this would be uh a good short to be uh nominated, but can we see both this and that or both this and that?
00:34:19.039 -->
00:34:21.440Or do they cancel each other out and none of them get in?
00:34:21.599 -->
00:34:25.840And so this was a really interesting year for live-action short film, really strong year.
00:34:26.000 -->
00:34:32.400We thought maybe Butcher Stain is the one that's gonna have the one that you know stands out the most, so maybe there's an edge there.
00:34:32.559 -->
00:34:40.400Um, we're glad we got it right, but I think I think we're even happier to see this be the particular category that um that produced a tie.
00:34:40.559 -->
00:34:49.920And the last thing I want to say Well, I I I do think that it helped that you know two people at Changer's Aliva was able to bring on bring on board uh Isabel Luper and Julianne Moore.
00:34:50.239 -->
00:34:50.400Right.
00:34:50.559 -->
00:34:52.239But every single one had their advantage, right?
00:34:52.320 -->
00:35:03.360So Jane Austen's period drama had the whole idea of it's playing off not just Jane Austen, um, the Jane Austen world in the literary sense, but the Jane Austen world in the cinematic sense.
00:35:03.599 -->
00:35:09.039And the Jane Austen world has been visited and films nominated at the Academy for so long that that was an advantage.
00:35:09.199 -->
00:35:16.480You had Miriam in her friend with Dorothy, you had Isabelle Hooper um in uh Two People who changed the Live, Barry Jenkins.
00:35:16.559 -->
00:35:21.039Um, but then the singers, they use popular music to their advantage, right?
00:35:21.199 -->
00:35:26.320And so and Butcher Stane um had uh, I believe uh the son of a Barry Levinson.
00:35:26.480 -->
00:35:31.599Barry Levinson helped him uh make the film, supported him making the film, and so everyone had their advantage.
00:35:31.679 -->
00:35:32.960It was really interesting.
00:35:33.199 -->
00:35:42.559Um, the last thing I want to say about this category, and I hope it bridges us to the following topic, which is the winners from Two People Exchanging Saliva get on stage.
00:35:42.800 -->
00:35:43.280Oh, yeah.
00:35:43.519 -->
00:35:45.360And I think we gotta talk about it.
00:35:45.519 -->
00:35:50.480You know, they call out the ballet opera, what are we calling it?
00:35:50.639 -->
00:35:51.440Ballet Opera Gate?
00:35:51.519 -->
00:35:52.719What are what are we what are we calling it?
00:35:52.880 -->
00:36:05.679Well, before we go there for a second, let's just mention that, you know, in terms of the shorts, they're usually the categories that can really affect your pool, how many you get right, both in who you predict as nominees and who you predict as winners.
00:36:05.840 -->
00:36:10.559Um, you can always expect a surprise, more than one surprise, in either case.
00:36:10.719 -->
00:36:17.599Um, and in this case, you know, documentary short was easily the favorite, but live, but animated short was not the favorite.
00:36:17.840 -->
00:36:18.079Right.
00:36:18.159 -->
00:36:22.079And we were sort of able to at the last minute break.
00:36:22.159 -->
00:36:25.360That was one of our last minute decisions at the 12th hour.
00:36:25.760 -->
00:36:27.360Most people were predicting Papillon.
00:36:27.599 -->
00:36:32.880Papillon, and we ended up going with the filmmakers from The Girl Who Cried Pearls.
00:36:33.039 -->
00:36:40.320Um, it's a great win for the National Film Board and Canada, who have won in this category before, but it's been quite a while.
00:36:40.480 -->
00:36:40.639Yeah.
00:36:40.800 -->
00:36:42.239So it was really great to see.
00:36:42.320 -->
00:36:48.239Um, we definitely thought that, for example, something like Stop Motion was gonna get an advantage, and so we really we were really happy to see that.
00:36:48.559 -->
00:36:49.519We were really happy with that one.
00:36:49.920 -->
00:36:50.960We were pretty ecstatic.
00:36:51.280 -->
00:36:54.480We thought like that win was gonna help take us over the top.
00:36:54.960 -->
00:36:55.199Right.
00:36:55.280 -->
00:36:59.920Um, and we had some some misses, including on 12 hour predictions.
00:37:00.000 -->
00:37:01.039Maybe we'll talk about it.
00:37:01.119 -->
00:37:11.119Um, but it was certainly a moment where uh we were happy because it it went against what the majority of pundits were saying, not unlike last year when in the Shadow the Cypress won.
00:37:11.519 -->
00:37:12.480Um so that was interesting.
00:37:12.800 -->
00:37:12.960Right.
00:37:13.039 -->
00:37:22.960But back to your point of, you know, uh when the um the filmmakers behind Two People Exchange Saliva get on stage right in front of Timothy Chalamet.
00:37:23.199 -->
00:37:24.000Bert front row.
00:37:24.480 -->
00:37:28.719They mention the ballet, uh an opera gate.
00:37:28.800 -->
00:37:28.880Right.
00:37:29.119 -->
00:37:29.679What are you calling it?
00:37:29.760 -->
00:37:29.920Whatever.
00:37:30.159 -->
00:37:31.840I don't know what you meant to call it.
00:37:31.920 -->
00:37:34.639You know, that has been a pure nightmare.
00:37:36.000 -->
00:37:53.599You know, that has been kind of uh, you know, with the days leading up to the academy, obviously, you know, we've all been privy to just how many people have participated in their you know, discussion of what Timothy Chalamet said in that town hall with Matthew McConaughey about ballet and opera.
00:37:54.159 -->
00:37:59.280Nathan Lane wondering why the hell we're having a uh a town hall between these two people anyway.
00:37:59.760 -->
00:38:02.960And uh, Julie Binoche mentioned something.
00:38:04.480 -->
00:38:08.000Big over gave him uh you know it was pretty hard on him on the view.
00:38:09.360 -->
00:38:15.280Um so I just feel like people and Conan O'Brien made a few jokes about it as well at the top of the uh the telecast.
00:38:15.519 -->
00:38:23.440I thought he could have been a little bit more pointed, but he I think wanted to not make it too much of his focus.
00:38:23.679 -->
00:38:24.239He could have.
00:38:24.480 -->
00:38:40.559I I heard, and again, I wasn't in the room, and I don't know that I trust these sources I was hearing, but I heard that at one point Timothy Chalamet and Kylie Jenner were not appreciative of all that kind of you know, joking around, and then they left for an hour.
00:38:40.719 -->
00:38:44.960Um the the the actual auditory, you know, actual theater.
00:38:45.039 -->
00:38:48.320Yeah, um then maybe they went to the lobby or something, I don't know.
00:38:48.480 -->
00:38:54.159Um, but supposedly they left for like an hour and then they came back like right before Best Actor.
00:38:54.320 -->
00:39:02.400Wow, supposedly I kind of want to go through the telecast and like keep my eyes, see if look for the seat feather.
00:39:02.559 -->
00:39:03.360Let's see for the seat feather.
00:39:05.360 -->
00:39:05.599Wow.
00:39:05.760 -->
00:39:07.119I don't know if that's true or not.
00:39:07.280 -->
00:39:09.119I don't know if I buy it or not.
00:39:09.280 -->
00:39:15.920You know, if you're listening to this podcast and you have access to the taping, go and check out when you see a seat filler there.
00:39:16.159 -->
00:39:16.400Right.
00:39:16.480 -->
00:39:24.320Um, but I do think that if that were to have happened, I understand because they were joking about it quite a bit.
00:39:24.480 -->
00:39:24.639Right.
00:39:24.800 -->
00:39:27.840I'm still confused why Timothy Shawame hasn't said anything about it.
00:39:28.000 -->
00:39:39.360He's still he strikes me as the kind of person that would just, you know, grab a hold and and control the narrative, the situation, and just speak openly.
00:39:39.519 -->
00:39:44.400Listen, you know, I I shed something that I maybe shouldn't have said, you know, my bad.
00:39:44.559 -->
00:39:45.360Let's move on.
00:39:45.519 -->
00:39:47.280You know, and I think that would have been enough.
00:39:47.519 -->
00:39:50.559Um, but for some reason he hasn't said anything.
00:39:51.039 -->
00:39:53.119Or he's been advised not to say anything, right?
00:39:53.199 -->
00:39:54.400Or he's been advised.
00:39:54.639 -->
00:40:01.920Um, and I don't know, you know, we've been, you know, uh Timothy has been on our radar for a very long time.
00:40:02.320 -->
00:40:10.400Um we, I mean, we remember him from Men, Women and Children when he had a small bit there, and obviously Interstellar.
00:40:10.559 -->
00:40:21.199And, you know, seeing him evolve throughout his career, I just wondered if, you know, something wasn't off about him in that final ceremony at the Oscars.
00:40:21.440 -->
00:40:23.360He felt a little bit we should talk about that.
00:40:23.599 -->
00:40:26.000It didn't seem to me like he was his jovial self.
00:40:26.159 -->
00:40:26.559Yeah, yeah.
00:40:26.800 -->
00:40:27.360It seemed to me.
00:40:27.599 -->
00:40:29.920And now what I would what I'm used to seeing from him.
00:40:30.159 -->
00:40:43.280It seemed to me like the talk had gotten to him and the coverage had gotten to him, and that I think, and again, I'm not this is no personal dig, I'm just observing as I'm an observer here, you know.
00:40:43.360 -->
00:40:49.039We're observers and we we we call we cover the the race and we cover you know the politics behind it and everything.
00:40:49.440 -->
00:40:59.679And so I think one thing is to eventually lose a bid that maybe you felt you were well positioned, or people had claimed you were well positioned to win all year.
00:40:59.840 -->
00:41:01.039Or you felt you deserved it.
00:41:01.280 -->
00:41:02.719Or maybe you felt that you deserved it.
00:41:02.960 -->
00:41:06.159Um and one thing is to lose that, right?
00:41:06.639 -->
00:41:12.480Another thing is to lose that in a way where you're being possibly hyper scrutinized.
00:41:13.280 -->
00:41:16.079And that's a tough thing for anyone.
00:41:16.239 -->
00:41:16.400Yeah.
00:41:16.639 -->
00:41:19.280And and this is still a very young actor.
00:41:19.360 -->
00:41:19.519Yeah.
00:41:19.840 -->
00:41:32.239And so I don't I I completely understand why it maybe has, you know, not he hasn't been able to, you know, just shrug it off um with ease.
00:41:32.480 -->
00:41:33.679You know, I remember reading a headline.
00:41:33.840 -->
00:41:35.679Again, I didn't read the article, but I read the headline.
00:41:35.920 -->
00:41:36.800I think it was variety.
00:41:36.880 -->
00:41:41.199One of the major traits talk about, you know, has Timothy Chalamet lost his shine or whatever.
00:41:41.519 -->
00:41:49.840Yeah, and there was there was one that just came out right now in the last week or so about, you know, Timothy Chalamet's downfall and what it reveals about us.
00:41:50.000 -->
00:41:52.800You know, it's just those can't be easy things to hear.
00:41:53.039 -->
00:41:53.360Not at all.
00:41:53.679 -->
00:42:01.280And you know, you're you're an artist and you're uh a professional, and so you're still working, but you know, let's face it, it's a very small world.
00:42:01.360 -->
00:42:04.480So I'm sure someone has it's already come across your eyes.
00:42:04.719 -->
00:42:11.360You're aware of it, and if even if you try not to entertain it, you know, that's not an easy thing to be presented.
00:42:11.679 -->
00:42:22.960And so I wanna say that there are people criticizing his behavior quite publicly or his comments quite publicly, like we'll be Goldberg.
00:42:23.360 -->
00:42:27.039But also wanna say it's not an easy position to be in.
00:42:27.199 -->
00:42:30.079He's been um scrutinized for the way he's campaigned the movie.
00:42:30.239 -->
00:42:39.679I certainly have had my critiques about it, um, not so much as it reflects on him as an artist or him as a personality, him as a persona, or him as an individual or a performer or a professional.
00:42:40.320 -->
00:42:44.480Again, film massively successful, the most money-making film in A24 history.
00:42:44.559 -->
00:42:45.519So there you go.
00:42:45.760 -->
00:42:49.760Um, but I do I've always critiqued it as strategy.
00:42:49.920 -->
00:42:56.079Right in terms of strategy, I said this, you know, back in uh October or whenever they started presenting it before NYFF.
00:42:56.159 -->
00:42:59.519I think, you know, it's the kind of thing that could quickly blow up in your face.
00:42:59.599 -->
00:43:04.400And I think it did blow up in in in his face, or it blew up in the face of the campaign for A24 to a certain degree.
00:43:04.719 -->
00:43:05.920The campaign, not the box office.
00:43:06.239 -->
00:43:06.719Right, exactly.
00:43:06.800 -->
00:43:13.679You had to decide what victory is here, and if victory is most money-making film, you've achieved it, and you would not have achieved it without it.
00:43:13.840 -->
00:43:14.000Right.
00:43:14.159 -->
00:43:18.239You know, it's only the orange outfit that helps get you there, right?
00:43:18.320 -->
00:43:19.679Without it, you would not have made that.
00:43:19.760 -->
00:43:22.800You just have to look at Timothy Chalavet's other films to know that.
00:43:22.960 -->
00:43:27.760And certainly his more his more artistic films and the films of Safety, right?
00:43:27.920 -->
00:43:31.840Um, but if the goal is to get him that win, then that is not the right strategy.
00:43:32.320 -->
00:43:51.360And so the same way we were able to sort of call out a moment like that that happened last year on the awards circuit on the Oscar race, is the same way that you know we feel adamant about the most appropriate thing is to call out everyone who's making Timothy Chalamet's loss in Best Actor about ballet opera.
00:43:51.679 -->
00:43:53.199It's not about ballet opera.
00:43:53.679 -->
00:43:56.719Ballads were cast before before that.
00:43:56.960 -->
00:44:01.199This loss is a reflective is a reflection of Myriad of factors.
00:44:01.519 -->
00:44:09.920Um, part of which certainly may be um how do you uh uh more um valid than others.
00:44:10.079 -->
00:44:14.719For example, there are gonna be some people who admire the performance and dislike the character, point blank.
00:44:14.800 -->
00:44:15.039Right.
00:44:15.280 -->
00:44:19.440There are gonna be some viewers who cannot finish a Safety film point blank, right?
00:44:19.599 -->
00:44:24.320Right, there are gonna be some voters who think he's too young and he can't do anything about that.
00:44:24.480 -->
00:44:26.960He can't make himself older automatically, right?
00:44:27.119 -->
00:44:27.360Right?
00:44:27.440 -->
00:44:28.800We we've talked about that.
00:44:28.960 -->
00:44:33.440Um, the the loss here again was some of that marketing strategy.
00:44:33.679 -->
00:44:37.760Um, unfortunately, and again, I don't think you can ever escape this.
00:44:37.840 -->
00:44:44.159I'm sure there were some people who were not thrilled with the whole he's dating a Kardashian thing.
00:44:44.320 -->
00:44:44.480Right.
00:44:44.719 -->
00:44:50.159And I want to believe that that's the smallest amount that we're voting based on merit.
00:44:50.320 -->
00:44:53.920I really do believe that the majority of people vote on merit.
00:44:54.000 -->
00:44:56.639Um, and he just came up a little bit short.
00:44:56.800 -->
00:44:59.679Um, and so I I'm not a hundred percent sure.
00:44:59.760 -->
00:45:00.320I agree with you.
00:45:00.400 -->
00:45:06.559I think that in an ideal world, you know, factors like that would be minuscule, you know, as to why he doesn't win.
00:45:06.719 -->
00:45:14.400But I do think some of these more outside factors outside of the performance, um, you know, played a bigger played a bigger role.
00:45:14.559 -->
00:45:15.599But yeah, I get your point.
00:45:15.679 -->
00:45:15.840Yeah.
00:45:16.000 -->
00:45:17.039Uh maybe you're right.
00:45:17.199 -->
00:45:20.159Maybe they do play a bigger role, and maybe it's not always merit, you know.
00:45:20.480 -->
00:45:21.280Which is not fair, by the way.
00:45:21.360 -->
00:45:21.519Yeah.
00:45:22.480 -->
00:45:26.800And again, I don't want to knock certain performers, you know.
00:45:26.880 -->
00:45:29.440I I do think it's partly political, so to speak.
00:45:29.599 -->
00:45:38.719Um, you know, I'm sure that the desire to give it to Sandra Bullock for the blind side was um overwhelming over 100% her work on the actual movie.
00:45:38.960 -->
00:45:42.719And again, the the the what the film accomplished at the box office had a lot to do with it.
00:45:42.800 -->
00:45:45.039What she's accomplished at the box office had a lot to do with it.
00:45:45.119 -->
00:45:46.800Um and Sandra Bush is a very good actress.
00:45:47.119 -->
00:45:47.760And just liking her.
00:45:47.840 -->
00:45:48.559Yeah, just liking her.
00:45:48.880 -->
00:45:53.119And just exactly the way she campaigned and presented herself is a factor.
00:45:53.280 -->
00:46:01.679That being said, you also had Monique that year, who was heavily criticized and was still able to win the award because of merit, in my opinion.
00:46:02.000 -->
00:46:05.760Um, and therefore, you're right, it's a little bit of a dance between those two things.
00:46:05.920 -->
00:46:12.400But I don't I don't like this narrative that you know ballet operate cost him the Oscar.
00:46:12.559 -->
00:46:23.599I think that's that's short-sighted, and it's just that that's um a decision that people are making because um they didn't they weren't sharp enough throughout the year.
00:46:23.679 -->
00:46:34.239And I think we we were pointing out a lot of um a lot of stumbles on the weight to this moment and a lot of um miscalculations possibly.
00:46:34.480 -->
00:46:56.239Um we talked about after after we saw it, and maybe even before I think when it premiered, just the idea that by the very nature of the film it is, we would be having a completely different discussion had Marty Supreme been nominated for five or six or nine Academy Awards last year, including Best Actor, and this year had been nominated for Uncomplete Unknown.
00:46:56.719 -->
00:46:59.760He can he can win for playing Bob Dylan.
00:46:59.840 -->
00:47:00.000Right.
00:47:00.239 -->
00:47:03.519It's going to be extremely difficult to win for playing Marty Mauser.
00:47:03.599 -->
00:47:04.880It doesn't matter how old you are, right?
00:47:05.039 -->
00:47:05.440Right.
00:47:05.679 -->
00:47:10.800Um and I think you can put Kieran Culkin in the role of Marty Mauser, and he would probably still lose.
00:47:10.880 -->
00:47:13.679And Kieran Culkin is extremely endearing, right?
00:47:13.760 -->
00:47:16.639Um, and he has a sing a certain sort of legacy in the industry.
00:47:16.719 -->
00:47:21.039I don't think that Kieran Culkin can win any type of Oscar for playing Marty Mauser.
00:47:21.360 -->
00:47:22.639That's just my my impression.
00:47:23.039 -->
00:47:24.000You know, I don't know.
00:47:24.079 -->
00:47:29.119I I Okay, so I'm hearing you, and I think that it's I think it's valid, but I have two things to say.
00:47:29.440 -->
00:47:49.679One is that, again, I just want to stress that it's been strange to see kind of not just the change in the narrative of the Marty Supreme phenomenon, you know, uh it's destined to win best actor and to get nine for several Academy Awards, walks out with zero wins and doesn't win best actor.
00:47:49.840 -->
00:47:55.440That's been really fascinating to see the the the the change, the the change of the tide.
00:47:55.760 -->
00:48:10.320Um, and uh again being influenced by all these other factors, and it kind of sucks to see him not kind of be the kind of Timothy Chalamet that we're used to seeing in terms of you know at these awards.
00:48:10.400 -->
00:48:17.039And you know, again, there's something very accessible, very, you know, uh affable, very, you know, charming about him.
00:48:17.119 -->
00:48:19.360And I just feel like the lights were a little bit dim.
00:48:19.519 -->
00:48:19.760Right.
00:48:19.920 -->
00:48:34.400You know, uh, when you saw him on the red carpet, I know there was a video that was out about someone was doing it an exact like second by second play by play of him completely uh escaping or or avoiding uh Steven Spielberg.
00:48:34.719 -->
00:48:36.320Is the most ridiculous thing of life?
00:48:36.559 -->
00:48:43.920I will say the video did look a little bit like they were, like he was trying to avoid him uh uh from from an outsider's perspective, but I get what you're saying.
00:48:44.000 -->
00:48:45.840It's you know, it was it was it was crazy.
00:48:46.159 -->
00:49:02.400But exactly, like I'm just saying people really I think some outlets really exploited the upside down nature of this narrative from being the front runner to being he's going to lose or he can lose or I can't believe he lost.
00:49:02.639 -->
00:49:21.440But I also think that he said, Right, but I also think that Timothy Chalamet dipping his toe into sort of this more mainstream pop culture with some of the campaign tactics and dating uh Kylie Jenner kind of gives per kind of gave permission to some of these, you know, media outlets to kind of run with it.
00:49:21.519 -->
00:49:23.039You know, in a way, you know what I'm saying?
00:49:23.280 -->
00:49:23.840I get what you're saying.
00:49:24.079 -->
00:49:34.239In a in a way, his participation with that kind of world kind of you know came with him being open to that, to that other kind of I think you're right.
00:49:34.320 -->
00:49:48.800Um I just think it's I just think it's a shame and in portase in the sense that you have those individuals who are covering that moment when Timothy Chalamet is, you know, just barely, you know, escaping contact with Steven Spielberg.
00:49:48.880 -->
00:49:51.760It'd be great if they were actually put on another Safdi film.
00:49:52.000 -->
00:49:53.840Um and maybe that's just an assumption I'm making.
00:49:53.920 -->
00:50:04.880But if they could cover the Safdi film uh that is not marketed that way, that is not marketed that way with the same amount of passion, then you know, then heaven knows what would have made significantly more money, in my opinion.
00:50:05.039 -->
00:50:05.119Right.
00:50:05.280 -->
00:50:09.280Um but like I said, I was just unfortunate to see those those lights dim.
00:50:09.519 -->
00:50:09.760Right.
00:50:09.920 -->
00:50:18.800You know, and I felt that, you know, especially as in the in the latter leg of this awards campaigning train, the lights were dim, right?
00:50:18.880 -->
00:50:21.199You know, and and it's unusual to see him in that light.
00:50:21.360 -->
00:50:21.679Right, right.
00:50:21.840 -->
00:50:34.400I think a part of me, and we've discussed this privately, I think a part of me feels like he's maybe bitter, you know, bitter about kind of, you know, not maybe not even necessarily the the tie, the change or the loss the momentum, or even the loss.
00:50:34.480 -->
00:51:00.639But as you were saying, this feeling of, you know, being exploited and you know, being um you know, uh uh yeah, taken out of context, maybe in a way, or you know, feeling like people were have misconstrued his intentions and his words, um, that there's a bitterness there that wasn't there, you know, all these other years that you've seen him kind of in the you know um Hollywood uh circuit.
00:51:00.880 -->
00:51:09.920And there's I mean, uh to to continue on what you're just what you're saying, everyone talked last year about the villain being Emilia Perez, right?
00:51:10.400 -->
00:51:12.559Well, specifically Carlos Sofia Gascon, probably.
00:51:12.800 -->
00:51:14.639And specifically Carlos Sofia Gascon.
00:51:14.880 -->
00:51:18.719And I wonder if a little bit of that has rubbed into the whole Mario Supreme thing.
00:51:18.880 -->
00:51:26.880Another factor that did not help Mario Supreme is you know it finally being revealed why Josh and Benny were not necessarily working together.
00:51:27.360 -->
00:51:31.199Well, again, even that's an assumption as that that's what maybe that's an assumption.
00:51:31.440 -->
00:51:38.480Again, there are some decisions being made as to when to address something, when not to address something that are some maybe questionable.
00:51:38.719 -->
00:51:46.639Um, and again, I would I would wonder if being more upfront about it could have saved a lot of trouble.
00:51:46.880 -->
00:51:52.320Like you would couldn't this have been announced before the movies went into production before the movies are gonna be released?
00:51:52.800 -->
00:51:54.480Would that not have been better?
00:51:54.880 -->
00:52:03.119Um it's almost like I guess in this industry, especially, you're only gonna escape, you know, uh being outed for so long.
00:52:03.360 -->
00:52:05.920Eventually they're going they're going to out you.
00:52:06.079 -->
00:52:10.320Um, and so I I do think that that may be another miscalculation with considering.
00:52:10.400 -->
00:52:15.199I do think that played a factor in ultimately Marty Supreme walking out with zero Oscars.
00:52:15.519 -->
00:52:22.000Um, I don't think that's the only factor, and I want to touch upon that for a second um as we continue this discussion.
00:52:22.159 -->
00:52:28.159You know, I want to say Marty Supreme didn't get any wins, and we had called this after BAFTA.
00:52:28.320 -->
00:52:38.559After BAFTA, when it didn't get any wins, we had said, you know, there is a trend where like if you got nothing at BAFTA, that's a very good um predecessor for you getting nothing at the Academy Awards.
00:52:38.880 -->
00:52:42.880And Marty Supreme did really well in the lead up to nominations.
00:52:43.360 -->
00:52:56.400Um it was a top five film, it was nominated in a b in a in a bunch of places, but I want to say that it also reiterates something that maybe we overlook, which is that being a top five film is fantastic and it's great for when you get your nominations.
00:52:56.880 -->
00:53:04.960But there's a little bit of a downside, which is when you're a top five film, usually one of you is gonna walk out with nothing.
00:53:05.360 -->
00:53:10.960And so if you look at the DGA award nominees, right, and I was looking back on this on the lead up to the Oscars.
00:53:11.039 -->
00:53:28.239If you look at the DGA nominees, um, the nominees for the Directors Guild of America, which has long been sort of the gold standard for predicting who the five favorite for the Oscars Best Picture are, every single time or most of the time, they have a film that will get nothing, that will end up winning no Academy Award.
00:53:28.320 -->
00:53:34.559And so last year, for example, um, they gave uh a nomination to Complete Unknown, no wins, right?
00:53:34.719 -->
00:53:38.000Um, the year before that, a nomination for Kids of the Flower Moon, no wins.
00:53:38.159 -->
00:53:38.239Right.
00:53:38.400 -->
00:53:44.400The year before that, there was a bunch of movies that got no wins, whether it was Tar or Fate or uh Fablemans, um Elvis.
00:53:44.639 -->
00:53:47.760Uh uh El Elvis, actually, Elvis didn't get a DJ nomination.
00:53:48.320 -->
00:53:52.079Um but um in 2021, Licorice Pizza was a DJ nominee.
00:53:52.159 -->
00:53:52.960It didn't get any wins.
00:53:53.039 -->
00:54:08.559And so, like, it's great to fight tooth and nail as studios do fight tooth and nail during the Oscar race and during the yearly campaign to score a top five DJ nomination and and sort of wrestle your way into being a top five movie.
00:54:08.800 -->
00:54:17.599But so many of them don't focus on the idea that okay, now that I'm one in five, right, one of us statistically should walk away with nothing.
00:54:17.679 -->
00:54:20.880So that I have to fight extra hard to make sure that I'm not that movie.
00:54:21.119 -->
00:54:21.599Absolutely.
00:54:21.679 -->
00:54:22.800Yeah, absolutely.
00:54:23.119 -->
00:54:27.840Well, that's something that I want that's the other thing I want to mention about Timothy Chalemet's uh loss.
00:54:28.239 -->
00:54:42.639Um, uh, what you had said, um, and and maybe that can transition us into this this next topic of best actor, um, is that you said Marty Mauser is not the typical kind of role that would win the Academy for the Academy Award for Best Actor.
00:54:42.800 -->
00:54:46.320Um, and I I wholeheartedly believe that that's true as well.
00:54:46.559 -->
00:54:49.360But I do feel like I don't think that Michael B.
00:54:49.519 -->
00:54:55.599Jordan's performance um is the kind of performance that typically wins best actor either.
00:54:55.760 -->
00:55:09.199You know, I do think that there was a lot of, you know, because of the shift from the Martio Supreme sort of narrative, that opened an avenue for another person, for another actor to kind of seize the moment and of the choices that there were there.
00:55:09.360 -->
00:55:13.440Obviously, the one that, you know, the industry was most excited about was Michael B.
00:55:13.599 -->
00:55:13.840Jordan.
00:55:14.000 -->
00:55:23.920I think we talked about this in a previous episode about, you know, how he represents this sort of new Hollywood, but in in a manner that I think is very uh palatable to the Academy voters.
00:55:24.079 -->
00:55:26.000He's a very good actor, very strong actor.
00:55:26.079 -->
00:55:27.360We've been following him for years.
00:55:27.519 -->
00:55:30.239I've been following his work since Fruitville Station.
00:55:30.320 -->
00:55:32.400I think you might have seen him on The Wire.
00:55:32.559 -->
00:55:33.199Yeah.
00:55:33.440 -->
00:55:35.840Um, uh Friday Night Lights, you know.
00:55:35.920 -->
00:55:46.000So, yeah, so we've been following him for a very long time, and um, he's a terrific actor, but it's not the kind of performance that you would expect to win Best Actor, in my opinion.
00:55:46.159 -->
00:55:54.239I don't think that, you know, Sinners kind of provides the best platform to see all of uh Michael B.
00:55:54.320 -->
00:56:01.199Jordan's sort of range and his what I, you know, some of the some of the aspects of his craft that I value the most.
00:56:01.440 -->
00:56:04.880You know, um, I don't know if you feel the same way, if you feel differently.
00:56:05.119 -->
00:56:18.000Um uh I'm very happy for his win, but I just wanted to point that out that I'm not sure that I see his performance in Sinners and maybe even Sinners as a whole, to be the kind of film that typically wins a best actor, Oscar.
00:56:18.320 -->
00:56:28.719Um and I think again, a big reason why we saw that outcome was uh what happened with Timothy Chalamet um and that and that and that you know tide of change.
00:56:28.960 -->
00:56:41.760I mean, I think the Timothy Chalamet thing was a factor, but I do think that the narrative, you know, maybe taking hold on let's inspect how Timothy Chalamet lost this as opposed to how Michael B.
00:56:41.840 -->
00:56:42.960Jordan won it.
00:56:43.119 -->
00:56:45.360Um, and I I think that you're right.
00:56:45.519 -->
00:57:03.519Certainly, in my opinion, it is not the type of performance that traditionally wins an Oscar, but I also think it makes sense with where the trend is, because I don't know that I believe that traditionally Michelle Yao's performance and everything everywhere all at once would beat Lydia Tarr.
00:57:03.679 -->
00:57:08.880But by virtue of Lydia Tar being largely unlikable, it makes sense for Kate Blanchett to lose.
00:57:09.199 -->
00:57:11.679I mean, it doesn't help that Kate Blanchett already has two, right?
00:57:11.920 -->
00:57:14.880Right, and everything everywhere all at once presents history, right?
00:57:15.360 -->
00:57:18.719Um, and again, it I helps that, for example, Michael B.
00:57:18.880 -->
00:57:24.239Jordan, I think what uh he's there's just such a few group of black actors that have won that award.
00:57:24.320 -->
00:57:29.360And again, you're sort of catching up here trying to make right on that.
00:57:29.440 -->
00:57:34.960Um, and that's that's in a that's something that I think the campaign was able to exploit and and good for them, you know.
00:57:35.039 -->
00:57:39.679And I loved Michael's speech, um, shouting out everyone who was on that position.
00:57:39.760 -->
00:57:50.719And and we're, I'm sure, just years away from finally from finally seeing another um actress uh win um best actress, a black actress, that's gonna be amazing.
00:57:50.800 -->
00:57:54.559But again, that's part of that's part of what's helping the campaign.
00:57:54.719 -->
00:57:58.639I do think that my Marty Mauser being unlikable is part of it.
00:57:58.800 -->
00:58:03.760Um, I think Sinners being the most nominated film of the year was a part of why Michael was able to win.
00:58:03.920 -->
00:58:04.960I think you're 100% right.
00:58:05.039 -->
00:58:05.599Michael B.
00:58:05.679 -->
00:58:09.119Jordan should not be a one-time nominee.
00:58:09.280 -->
00:58:12.800And so it on paper it reads possibly a little bit like how can Michael B.
00:58:12.960 -->
00:58:19.840Jordan win on his first time when Timothy Chalamet is, you know, a three-time lead actor nominee.
00:58:20.159 -->
00:58:20.400Right, right.
00:58:20.480 -->
00:58:23.840Well, I wouldn't say that personally, but I think some people would some people would say that.
00:58:23.920 -->
00:58:26.880Some people are going to complain about Timothy Chalamet.
00:58:26.960 -->
00:58:28.400I think he has he has a nomination.
00:58:28.800 -->
00:58:29.039Timothy?
00:58:29.199 -->
00:58:34.400Yeah, Timothy has three lead acting nominations because of Bob Dylan's performance from Bob Dylan last year.
00:58:34.559 -->
00:58:40.960Um, and then you have Michael, this is his first um nomination, not unlike, for example, Michelle Yao or Brendan Frazier.
00:58:41.119 -->
00:58:42.639But Michael should have been there years before.
00:58:42.719 -->
00:58:46.239Michael should have been in content in strong consideration for Fru Vel Station.
00:58:46.320 -->
00:58:48.400He should have been strong consideration for Creed.
00:58:48.800 -->
00:58:56.639And so so many of his collaborations with Ryan Kugler, so many of his collaborations with Ryan Kugler should have resulted in a nomination by now.
00:58:56.800 -->
00:59:09.840And so it's sort of like yes, Timothy Chalamet is possibly in a position where it's a little bit easier, or maybe uh uh the community is a little bit uh more prepared to recognize him and nominate him.
00:59:10.000 -->
00:59:14.159But when it finally came time to give him a win, they were a little bit hesitant.
00:59:14.400 -->
00:59:19.840And the community at large finally caught up to the idea that Michael should have been here years or before already.
00:59:20.000 -->
00:59:25.920And they've said, Well, if I have the opportunity to give him the win, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna let him being a one-time nominee stop that.
00:59:26.000 -->
00:59:30.239I'm not gonna let it be, not I'm not going to let the fact that it's a vampire movie stop that.
00:59:30.639 -->
00:59:36.559Um, and so I do think you're right, it's not the traditional role that wins an Oscar, but I think it is somewhat on trend.
00:59:36.719 -->
00:59:38.079And I do think Marty Mao's.
00:59:38.400 -->
00:59:40.719What about what about the traditional performance?
00:59:40.800 -->
00:59:41.119Yes.
00:59:41.199 -->
00:59:42.000Not just role.
00:59:42.239 -->
00:59:42.480Right.
00:59:42.639 -->
00:59:51.440Uh like I said, I think the performance, um, in my opinion, you could possibly have drawn a stronger distinction between the two brothers.
00:59:51.599 -->
00:59:52.400Um, right.
00:59:52.639 -->
00:59:59.599That being said, I wonder if on trend is the narrative possibly more.
01:00:00.000 -->
01:00:01.039More important than the performance.
01:00:01.360 -->
01:00:01.679Exactly.
01:00:01.840 -->
01:00:02.159Right.
01:00:02.320 -->
01:00:12.079And so just the idea that he's been overlooked so often, just the idea that he you know really approaches his films with passion and really helps them speak to an audience and find an audience.
01:00:12.320 -->
01:00:14.159Well, again, like what I said, where he represents.
01:00:14.400 -->
01:00:14.559Right.
01:00:14.719 -->
01:00:15.599No, uh Exactly.
01:00:15.760 -->
01:00:16.159You know, yeah.
01:00:16.239 -->
01:00:30.480He's he's very much, I think, in our opinion, someone like a a sort of a Brad Pitt DiCaprio figure where he's going to lend, you know, his stardom to these meaningful movies and he's gonna boost their profile and he's gonna do good work on them.
01:00:30.719 -->
01:00:35.519You know, he's he's not gonna do uh, you know, a film that he doesn't believe in.
01:00:35.760 -->
01:00:38.079And I feel like you can feel that, you could feel that in the room.
01:00:38.159 -->
01:00:48.719I think back to what I was saying at the at the top, um, in terms of speeches, I do feel like his was the speech that I think most people were excited about in the room.
01:00:48.880 -->
01:00:54.960I think that's where you felt the most passion from the um the audience um when they were seeing his win.
01:00:55.039 -->
01:01:00.400It just felt like what he had said on stage about people betting on him, the industry betting on him.
01:01:00.559 -->
01:01:05.599I think that you could feel that in the room, most people there, you know, were rooting for him.
01:01:05.679 -->
01:01:08.079Yes, you know, wanted to see him have that moment.
01:01:08.239 -->
01:01:18.800And I think that that was a big reason why, you know, things turned out the way that they did, despite there being a category where I feel like there were other contenders that could have seized the moment.
01:01:18.960 -->
01:01:24.159You know, Ethan Hawke, you you talk about Timothy Chalamet's third nomination and uh Michael B.
01:01:24.239 -->
01:01:24.960Jordan's first.
01:01:25.119 -->
01:01:27.519He should have been there much sooner than that, of course.
01:01:27.840 -->
01:01:33.039This is uh Ethan Hawke's fifth nomination, his third as an actor, his first as a leading man.
01:01:33.679 -->
01:01:36.239Um, and yet, you know, he still loses.
01:01:36.320 -->
01:01:36.400Right.
01:01:36.559 -->
01:01:43.599Magnumora was a huge critic's favorite since can and can capitalize on the moment despite being in a best picture nominee.
01:01:43.679 -->
01:01:43.760Right.
01:01:44.000 -->
01:01:46.559And and what was an early favorite for a foreign language film.
01:01:46.880 -->
01:01:48.960Leo DiCaprio, I understand, because he already has one.
01:01:49.039 -->
01:01:50.880Okay, that's the only one you can exclude.
01:01:51.039 -->
01:02:08.159But in a way, the other four are kind of after the Timothy Chalamet kind of you know um change of tide, you know, uh were on kind of even footing in a way that any of those three could have capitalized on their being, you know, on becoming the favorite, and it was Michael B.
01:02:08.320 -->
01:02:12.800Jordan, which I think is in no smart is in no small part due to the SAG win.
01:02:12.880 -->
01:02:13.119Yes.
01:02:13.280 -->
01:02:14.639You know, I think that was crucial.
01:02:14.719 -->
01:02:18.880Yeah, I think it was crucial that's crucial that Magnumora was not nominated for the SAG.
01:02:19.360 -->
01:02:24.239You and I, you know, looking back, there are foreign language performances that do win these categories.
01:02:24.320 -->
01:02:32.400Think about Marianne Cottiar and LaVeyon Rose, it does happen, but it's it does not happen in the lead acting races if you didn't get a SAG nomination.
01:02:32.639 -->
01:02:43.280So if that is is eventually going to be a narrative of the night that a foreign language performance won one of the two uh top uh leading acting awards, they got an eye for the SAG.
01:02:43.440 -->
01:02:43.599Yes.
01:02:43.760 -->
01:02:45.119That's a big miss for Wagner Mora.
01:02:45.280 -->
01:02:46.400He even missed the bathtub.
01:02:46.480 -->
01:02:46.639Right.
01:02:46.800 -->
01:02:51.599And and and and I I don't know if he made the I don't think he made the um that's another miss.
01:02:52.079 -->
01:02:56.480Um and then again, Ethan Hawke couldn't capitalize on his uh his career either.
01:02:56.719 -->
01:02:57.199Right, right.
01:02:57.440 -->
01:02:58.559Um yeah, yeah.
01:02:58.719 -->
01:02:59.679So I find that interesting.
01:02:59.840 -->
01:03:00.320I think you're right.
01:03:00.400 -->
01:03:20.639It's a hundred percent interesting, and I also think it's been a a great year for Best Actor because it was ultra competitive, and I think it was also it also illustrated well the way the dynamics of this Oscar race sort of um fall, which is in phase two, you're only trying to beat your competition, right?
01:03:20.800 -->
01:03:27.199And you're it's really much about it's it's very much about you know uh what your advantages are and can you exploit them?
01:03:27.360 -->
01:03:30.079And I think um Sinners and Michael B.
01:03:30.239 -->
01:03:32.079Jordan's campaign was able to do that.
01:03:32.239 -->
01:03:38.800Um and in a way, as you said, that Wagner Moraz wasn't, there was just too many too many shortcomings, same thing with Ethan Hawke.
01:03:39.119 -->
01:03:47.360But it's it's also massively interesting because again, it was so competitive that this year one could have made the argument had had timing just been a little bit different.
01:03:47.599 -->
01:03:50.719It this race illustrates how timing is everything.
01:03:51.039 -->
01:04:03.760If if it was Marty Mauser in 2025's Oscar and it was Bob Dylan in 2026, I think Bob Dylan would have won, you know, um, despite the opera uh ballet commentary.
01:04:04.239 -->
01:04:11.599Um if if Jesse Plemens had not been nominated for Power of the Dog, would he would he have got a name for Bugonia?
01:04:11.760 -->
01:04:12.239I think he would have.
01:04:12.320 -->
01:04:12.880I think he would have.
01:04:13.039 -->
01:04:14.159Could he have made things interesting?
01:04:14.320 -->
01:04:15.280I think he would have also.
01:04:15.519 -->
01:04:16.000You know what I mean?
01:04:16.239 -->
01:04:16.880I love that performance.
01:04:16.960 -->
01:04:26.320Um it's a great performance, but also Oscars, you know, they like a villain and they like a complicated character and they like a showy performance like that, not unlike, for example, you know, Joaquin's performance in Joker.
01:04:26.480 -->
01:04:31.039Um, and so it's massively interesting to think of the different ways.
01:04:31.199 -->
01:04:35.119For example, had Leo got a nominated for Cures of the Flower Moon, would he have been snubbed this year?
01:04:35.199 -->
01:04:35.760Yeah, probably.
01:04:36.000 -->
01:04:37.039He didn't need both of those nominations.
01:04:37.920 -->
01:04:43.599You know, his nomination here has everything to do with him being overlooked with Cures of the Flower Moon, right?
01:04:43.840 -->
01:05:05.920Um, and so I think it was a fantastic year for Actor because it sort of illustrated how multi-layered the whole idea of an Oscar campaign launching a film and performances into the Oscar conversation is, um, how volatile it is, and how um how separate these different phases are, right?
01:05:06.079 -->
01:05:14.320Between launching them, getting into a space where we're actually debating uh who are our favorites, and then when you're finally in that space, right?
01:05:14.639 -->
01:05:20.320Um, like I said, Roger Morrow is able to get in, possibly largely due to that Golden Globe win, right?
01:05:20.400 -->
01:05:30.159But had he not gotten in and had someone, like I said, like we said, Jesse Plemens gotten in, could it have made it a more um interesting, more um tight race?
01:05:30.320 -->
01:05:31.199It's possible.
01:05:31.519 -->
01:05:34.960Um so yeah, that that that was my big takeaway.
01:05:35.119 -->
01:05:37.440Um great to see Michael there.
01:05:37.840 -->
01:05:54.159Um it it was certainly another moment, and maybe we'll talk about this in one of the further uh other categories, but another moment that sort of signified that SAG is very much at the top of the mountain when it comes to dictating the way the acting categories are going to go.
01:05:54.559 -->
01:05:59.840I think you're very right that this year proved that, but I will say last year they still got two wrong in Timothy Shaw.
01:06:00.079 -->
01:06:02.079Chalame and uh Demi Moore.
01:06:02.159 -->
01:06:02.639Yeah.
01:06:02.880 -->
01:06:03.599So yeah.
01:06:03.760 -->
01:06:04.559Well, maybe you're right.
01:06:04.639 -->
01:06:06.400I mean, well, I think they had a bounce back this year.
01:06:06.800 -->
01:06:06.960Yeah.
01:06:07.039 -->
01:06:07.119Right.
01:06:07.599 -->
01:06:09.599Because 2022 they did bangers also.
01:06:09.679 -->
01:06:09.920Yeah.
01:06:10.079 -->
01:06:10.639All four.
01:06:10.800 -->
01:06:11.119Yeah.
01:06:11.280 -->
01:06:11.679Yeah.
01:06:11.840 -->
01:06:16.159Um, so yeah, I think it was a a very interesting thing, Best Actor.
01:06:16.239 -->
01:06:18.320Um and it was nice to see him have that moment.
01:06:18.400 -->
01:06:20.400You know, he's certainly, you know, the future.
01:06:20.559 -->
01:06:20.880Yeah.
01:06:20.960 -->
01:06:22.880Um, in a in a very meaningful way.
01:06:22.960 -->
01:06:23.119Yeah.
01:06:23.280 -->
01:06:24.639And uh in a very positive way.
01:06:24.880 -->
01:06:25.039Right.
01:06:25.280 -->
01:06:28.960And sticking with the actings um for a little bit longer.
01:06:29.039 -->
01:06:42.159Um, supporting actress was a fascinating race this year between three actresses, all in Warner Brothers films, all of them winning uh separate, you know, uh high honors, the Golden Globe, the Baft, and the SAG.
01:06:42.639 -->
01:06:47.840Um Amy Madigan became the favorite um after the SAG win.
01:06:48.000 -->
01:06:51.599You and I were betting on Wumi Osaku for the longest time.
01:06:52.159 -->
01:06:53.679And unfortunately, we got it wrong.
01:06:54.320 -->
01:06:55.760Also, we have to eat Crow.
01:06:56.079 -->
01:06:56.320Yeah.
01:06:56.480 -->
01:06:58.000Um, we got that wrong.
01:06:58.239 -->
01:07:05.599Um, part of the reason I mean, you did say that it was gonna be tough for both for centers to win, both actor and supporting actress.
01:07:05.840 -->
01:07:08.159Historically, it is not easy.
01:07:08.480 -->
01:07:09.280It's not easy.
01:07:09.360 -->
01:07:11.920Um, and everything every while at once does it.
01:07:12.159 -->
01:07:15.599Yes, and what I was gonna say, and yeah, they did it brilliantly three times.
01:07:15.679 -->
01:07:28.400Um, but I was what I was gonna say is unfortunately, I couldn't come up with a moment in history where two black actors were able to win those categories or a pair of categories together um for the same movie.
01:07:28.559 -->
01:07:35.599You know, I'm we're kind of talking about the idea that you know Octavia Spencer could win for the help, but Viola Davis ends up losing to Meryl Streep, that kind of idea.
01:07:35.760 -->
01:07:35.840Right.
01:07:36.320 -->
01:07:41.679Um, and so I thought it would be another historic moment, but that that didn't come to pass.
01:07:41.840 -->
01:07:42.000Right.
01:07:42.079 -->
01:07:45.119Um, I thought that BAFTA was really gonna be what broke for her.
01:07:45.360 -->
01:07:45.679Me too.
01:07:45.760 -->
01:07:47.599But the win ended up going to Amy Madigan.
01:07:47.760 -->
01:07:49.920Amy Madigan, who did not get an eye for the BAFTA.
01:07:50.079 -->
01:07:50.320Yeah.
01:07:50.480 -->
01:07:52.239Um, but she did make the short list.
01:07:52.719 -->
01:07:56.239Um and you know, I don't know how I feel about it.
01:07:56.320 -->
01:08:05.039You know, I I think it's really cool, like I said, that trajectory of that that contention, you know, is uh is is is incredible to witness.
01:08:05.599 -->
01:08:16.319Um, but everything was telling me that again, because she was a solo nominee and because it's not the kind of thing they typically go for um for an acting Oscar, that she was gonna be passed up.
01:08:16.560 -->
01:08:17.920And that didn't happen.
01:08:18.000 -->
01:08:22.720And I have to, I have to think that it ended up having a lot to do with her competition.
01:08:22.880 -->
01:08:31.119There were just too many cons about Tiana Taylor winning, you know, not enough credits, you know, kind of spiky, uh prickly character.
01:08:31.279 -->
01:08:37.279Um, and then Wimi Musaku, you know, maybe they didn't want to give sinners two acting wins, and Michael B.
01:08:37.359 -->
01:08:44.720Jordan had already kind of amassed this momentum that Wimi Musaku wasn't able to to to to have herself because of the SAG loss.
01:08:44.880 -->
01:08:45.199Right.
01:08:45.359 -->
01:08:47.520I don't know, but it it's a strange win.
01:08:48.000 -->
01:08:48.800You know, it is.
01:08:48.880 -->
01:08:49.840It's it's a strange win.
01:08:50.079 -->
01:08:50.800Like it, yeah.
01:08:51.119 -->
01:08:53.840Just even if just looking at it on paper, it's a strange win.
01:08:54.079 -->
01:09:10.880Are we overlooking possibly where the what ended up giving Amy Madigan a slight edge was, for example, that Teyana and Woon Me that there wasn't a strong second, right?
01:09:10.960 -->
01:09:15.760So to speak, but instead they were sort of three kind of cobbled up, tied together, right?
01:09:15.920 -->
01:09:16.159Right.
01:09:16.239 -->
01:09:22.319And in the face of that, maybe the vote for Amy Madigan um ends up winning out.
01:09:22.479 -->
01:09:22.800Why?
01:09:22.960 -->
01:09:26.560Because she's a former nominee, unlike her other nominees in that category, right?
01:09:26.880 -->
01:09:29.760She's not winning, not taking a veteran sentimental value.
01:09:29.920 -->
01:09:36.319Um, could it also be because uh, you know, not only is she a veteran, but she's been working for so long.
01:09:36.560 -->
01:09:38.800People made a lot of mention about that idea.
01:09:38.880 -->
01:09:43.680I think you said 40, 40 years between nominations, which might have been the longest stretch, right?
01:09:44.800 -->
01:09:48.800And I'm sure that's that's a pr a very good uh headline to campaign on.
01:09:48.880 -->
01:09:58.560Um, the idea that she's Ed Harris's partner, and Ed Harris is um an iconic actor and a really esteemed actor, and has yet to win an Academy Award and has a bunch of nominations.
01:09:58.720 -->
01:10:11.840It's kind of a win for their family, exactly, which sometimes happens in supporting, whether it's Jamie Lee Kurt or Solara Dern, it's a win for the artists of that little tiny branch of artists that the Academy recognizes.
01:10:11.920 -->
01:10:12.880That tends to happen sometimes.
01:10:13.039 -->
01:10:13.520Yeah, 100%.
01:10:13.760 -->
01:10:15.840Um, could those have been the things that go for them?
01:10:16.079 -->
01:10:39.439I also think that there uh uh along with what you're saying about there being like a three-way horse and that affecting all of them, as particularly, you know, Sinners in One Battle, that, you know, in terms of Sinners and One Battle being the favorite films, you know, and there there might have been a little bit of a split there in that, you know, when it came to supporting actress, you know, uh you either sided with One Battle or Sinners.
01:10:39.840 -->
01:10:50.720Sinners is my favorite, so Woomy gets my vote, or One Battle was my favorite, so Tayana gets my vote, and they kind of vote split it in a way, and that allowed an opening for someone like Amy Manigan for weapons.
01:10:50.960 -->
01:11:00.960Yeah, and and maybe it could also be a factor where if you liked weapons, it was the only category where you could give it a win, right?
01:11:01.039 -->
01:11:14.159Versus I part, I think, partly what you're saying here, which is um not only could there be a vote slip, a vote split between Teyana and Wound Me, but also this could be one of the few categories where you're okay not giving it to a sinner's or a one battle.
01:11:14.479 -->
01:11:23.600But here's another thing that I just thought of that I think might have also had some say as to why uh Amy Madigan won, and that's that international voters.
01:11:23.920 -->
01:11:35.039They also couldn't I I think that because of the way the category was set up, there wasn't enough of one person grabbing most of the international votes.
01:11:35.199 -->
01:11:43.439So, for example, you had two sentimental value actresses, so there might have been a little bit of a vote split there in terms of the international vote, but let's imagine that that's not true.
01:11:43.600 -->
01:11:49.039And that there were there was an international vote for sentimental value, it would go to Inga because she's the international actor.
01:11:49.439 -->
01:11:49.760Okay.
01:11:50.000 -->
01:12:00.880But then I think that too many international actors, I mean, uh too many international voters um probably were passionate about a movie like One Battle After Another.
01:12:00.960 -->
01:12:02.399And then Tayana got their vote.
01:12:02.479 -->
01:12:02.560Right.
01:12:02.800 -->
01:12:06.319Or some uh international voters might have re-elected Sinners and Sinners got their vote.
01:12:06.560 -->
01:12:10.000But the fact that Woodme is an international actor act from the UK.
01:12:10.239 -->
01:12:10.560Exactly.
01:12:10.720 -->
01:12:19.520So I don't think that there was enough of somebody to get the bulk of international votes that might have put them at the, you know, uh at the top of the pack.
01:12:20.000 -->
01:12:25.279And which again allowed an opening for Amy Madigan, who was the domestic favorite.
01:12:25.520 -->
01:12:28.000Yeah, like the home turf favorite in terms of the US.
01:12:28.319 -->
01:12:28.560Exactly.
01:12:28.640 -->
01:12:30.079I think I think that's something to consider too.
01:12:30.239 -->
01:12:36.319And I will say also, it's another bit of how the pendulum swung towards the sag this year, Michael B.
01:12:36.399 -->
01:12:37.680Jordan and Amy Madigan.
01:12:37.760 -->
01:12:38.479Yeah, right.
01:12:38.720 -->
01:12:43.199Um, you know, that did not happen at BAFTA or at Golden Globe.
01:12:43.600 -->
01:12:50.960Um, it's interesting because one one thing we kept saying this year was can Amy Madigan really win over Demi.
01:12:51.359 -->
01:12:53.680I'm sorry, when Demi Moore lost, right?
01:12:53.920 -->
01:12:55.439We we talked about that, right?
01:12:55.680 -->
01:12:57.439And so what do you think was the separation there?
01:12:57.520 -->
01:13:02.800You just think it was the second nomination, or do you think also this idea, we talk about it, lead bias?
01:13:03.039 -->
01:13:11.680Yes, I I certainly think that there's a big, a big reason is if we're talking about supporting actress is not the same as talking about as actress.
01:13:11.840 -->
01:13:12.560That's number one.
01:13:12.720 -->
01:13:27.840But number two, I also want to say that I think, you know, the substance is more overt with its sort of, you know, uh makeup and physicality and you know, kind of creature feature of it all, body horror, yeah.
01:13:28.000 -->
01:13:36.560You know, body horror of it all in a way that weapons is sinister but entertaining, but not super arthouse, not maybe art house at all.
01:13:37.039 -->
01:13:43.119Um, in that you would have people watch The Substance who were just gonna straight out, straight up not like it.
01:13:43.520 -->
01:13:46.000You know, and there were there were uh uh ballots supposed to be.
01:13:47.920 -->
01:13:48.319Exactly.
01:13:48.479 -->
01:13:56.560There were people who, you know, said in the anonymous ballot ballots, if you know you want to read any any uh if you want to read into them at all, that they hated the movie.
01:13:56.720 -->
01:14:01.680I think weapons is a more accessible film, you know, just by the kind of film that it is.
01:14:02.159 -->
01:14:04.000Um, so I think that helps as well.
01:14:04.079 -->
01:14:06.800But certainly the supporting versus lead thing, I think is a big deal.
01:14:07.039 -->
01:14:22.960Now, one thing that I want to say, which is kind of interesting to at least sort of put into context, is that the win for Amy Madigan in Supporting Actress is the first time we have a solo acting win, meaning a a film that only got one nomination, the nomination that it won, right?
01:14:23.279 -->
01:14:25.439Since Julianne Moore and still Alice.
01:14:25.600 -->
01:14:25.920Yeah, I know.
01:14:26.399 -->
01:14:26.560Right.
01:14:26.800 -->
01:14:33.439And so I I I do think it's interesting that and before that I believe it's Christopher Plummer.
01:14:33.600 -->
01:14:35.039Oh, in beginners.
01:14:35.279 -->
01:14:39.439Um, and so I do think I thought it was Penelope Cruz, but yeah, you're right, Christopher Plummer.
01:14:39.600 -->
01:14:42.640Um, yeah, Penelope Cruz for Ricky Christina Barcelona.
01:14:42.880 -->
01:14:46.079Oh no, I think that was a little, yeah, a little bit right next to Christopher Plummer.
01:14:46.159 -->
01:14:58.479But I do think that there's this idea that being an older actor, a veteran actor, and being an actor who like Julianne Moore has just never won might have might have helped, right?
01:14:58.720 -->
01:15:00.479Um it didn't help Demi Moore.
01:15:00.720 -->
01:15:01.359It didn't help Demi.
01:15:01.680 -->
01:15:02.239But that's what I'm saying.
01:15:02.319 -->
01:15:07.439Like it doesn't help an actor in their 60s, you know, who knows if I'm gonna get this chance again, they still said nah.
01:15:07.680 -->
01:15:22.079I guess that's what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to, as ridiculous as it sounds, I'm trying to say it's easier for Demi Moore to lose that category because she's not the same type of veteran that Amy Madigan or Christopher Plummer are on their second nominations, right?
01:15:22.159 -->
01:15:22.800Both of them, right?
01:15:22.960 -->
01:15:32.079Unlike Demi Moore's first, but also the fact that at the end of the day, the substance is gonna have a win, and the substance is a five-time, I think a five-time nominee, right?
01:15:32.239 -->
01:15:43.680It's almost a little bit easier to get it done, certainly when you've been there before, like Christopher Plummer or Amy Madigan, um, even Julianne Moore, obviously, you have so many nominations before that win.
01:15:43.760 -->
01:15:48.159Um, it's easier to get it done in supporting, but it's also easier to get it done when you're by yourself.
01:15:48.319 -->
01:15:59.039It's almost like there's a there's a a heightened urgency that the substance did not have because at the end the substance was one of the most talked-about films of the year and a best picture nominee.
01:15:59.199 -->
01:16:05.279Um, so I'm I guess in a weird sort of way, I'm saying had Weapons scored that best picture nomination, maybe Amy Madigan would not have won.
01:16:05.439 -->
01:16:07.359Um, in a in a weird sort of way.
01:16:07.520 -->
01:16:11.359Um, but yeah, I think that was another fascinating race this year.
01:16:11.680 -->
01:16:16.800It was absolutely uh uh I felt so convinced that I was gonna be Womie Messaku.
01:16:16.880 -->
01:16:18.399Yeah, I think you and I really felt that.
01:16:18.560 -->
01:16:20.159Yes, I I I yeah, you're right.
01:16:20.319 -->
01:16:29.600Um, and so I think the other acting um award went to Jesse Buckley and was very predictable, but I think she gave a very impassioned speech, which we all knew she was gonna do.
01:16:29.760 -->
01:16:31.520Yeah, she's great and I am not.
01:16:31.840 -->
01:16:35.680I do want to sort of bridge our conversation on supporting actress a little bit.
01:16:35.840 -->
01:16:46.319I want to talk about that international thing that you're talking about because I saw it play out at least in one category that to me was borderline shocking, but the more I thought about it, the more it makes sense.
01:16:46.560 -->
01:16:57.680And I'll preface it by saying that I think Netflix ended up winning seven awards um in total that night, um, which is actually, I think it's studio high.
01:16:57.840 -->
01:16:59.920I don't think it's ever broken seven.
01:17:00.239 -->
01:17:05.439Um we had predicted we had predicted it to break seven because we had the singers winning.
01:17:05.600 -->
01:17:10.319We had predicted it to break seven and get a high of eight, um, which would be a studio high.
01:17:10.479 -->
01:17:16.239Um, and the one that it ended up losing that we predicted, which by the way, I mentioned to you that I felt nervous about.
01:17:16.800 -->
01:17:22.399Yes, was a win for I'm sorry, was excuse me, was a loot a loss in Best Documentary.
01:17:22.560 -->
01:17:36.720Um Best Documentary, the favorite, our prediction um was for The Perfect Neighbor from Netflix, um, from double nominee Gita, who was sort of had a historic moment by getting two nominations, a nomination for Documentary Short and a nomination for documentary.
01:17:36.880 -->
01:17:39.920It did not come to pass, and she lost, unfortunately.
01:17:40.079 -->
01:17:42.720And the win ended up going to Mr.
01:17:42.880 -->
01:17:44.239Nobody against Putin.
01:17:44.319 -->
01:17:47.520And I think this was I think mostly a surprise to some people.
01:17:47.920 -->
01:17:55.119Yeah, 100% the favor was the perfect neighbor, and and and but by a good distance, the number two was uh Mr.
01:17:55.279 -->
01:17:59.520Nobody, and that's a lot of it due to it winning the the BAFTA.
01:17:59.600 -->
01:18:00.000The BAFTA.
01:18:00.079 -->
01:18:00.640The BAFTA.
01:18:00.800 -->
01:18:02.560Obviously, we've talked about in previous episodes.
01:18:02.640 -->
01:18:05.920You can check them out, but we knew it was going to be a tight one between them.
01:18:06.000 -->
01:18:23.279We knew it was coming up um strong at the final minute, especially everything that was going on with um Denmark and um Greenland, and it's a Denmark Danish co-production was submitted for foreign film from Denmark, did not get into the short list, did not get a nomination either, but the nomination for documentary was major.
01:18:23.439 -->
01:18:31.119Uh the reason why I bring it up is because I think that you and I would agree that what pushes it over the top is the international film.
01:18:31.439 -->
01:18:31.680I agree.
01:18:31.840 -->
01:18:32.399Do you agree with that?
01:18:32.560 -->
01:18:33.119I agree, yeah.
01:18:33.439 -->
01:18:33.760Okay.
01:18:34.319 -->
01:18:37.199Same kind of thing that we're saying has played out in in other places.
01:18:37.760 -->
01:18:42.399But this year we had a new rule, quote unquote.
01:18:42.960 -->
01:18:46.720The new rule being that you cannot vote for a winner unless you see all of them.
01:18:46.880 -->
01:18:48.079Unless you see all of them.
01:18:48.720 -->
01:19:03.840And so, in my mind, something that I have a suspicion played out in documentary film was that a significant portion of voters did not see all the movies in that particular category.
01:19:04.399 -->
01:19:16.800And so when you have someone maybe like Amy Madigan, who's able to get in there when the international vote is sort of canceling each other out in some places, or um, you know, maybe when Michael B.
01:19:16.880 -->
01:19:27.199Jordan, who maybe isn't the most international choice and he didn't win BAFTA, when he's able to win, it's because a lot of voters were able to see all the films and were therefore eligible to see all of them.
01:19:27.439 -->
01:19:30.000In documentary, this is the only place where they're nominated.
01:19:30.079 -->
01:19:31.600They're not gonna be two or three-time nominees.
01:19:31.760 -->
01:19:34.560Documentary is gonna nominate for one category, best documentary, and that's it.
01:19:34.640 -->
01:19:35.119Right, right.
01:19:35.279 -->
01:19:36.640So there's little incentive.
01:19:36.880 -->
01:19:37.920There's an inherent bias.
01:19:38.239 -->
01:19:41.199Like I'm gonna watch the narrative features, I don't have time for the documentary features.
01:19:41.520 -->
01:19:46.479There's little incentive because they don't have uh multiple nominations, there's little incentive to watch them.
01:19:46.640 -->
01:19:54.479Because if you watch them, you're only well informed in one category, versus if you watch Frankenstein, you're well informed from eight to nine, Pari Supreme the same, handed the same.
01:19:54.720 -->
01:19:58.479And so, because of that, I think voters leave it for last or neglect it.
01:19:58.640 -->
01:20:07.920And in this year, having neglected it or overlooked it or left it for last, they very quickly saw that they were just became ineligible to vote for it.
01:20:08.079 -->
01:20:21.680And so they may have seen The Perfect Neighbor, it may have been their favorite, it may have been the movie they decided to vote for, but because they had not seen the other ones, like Cutting Through Rocks, which didn't even have an appropriate release, they were deemed ineligible to watch it.
01:20:21.840 -->
01:20:32.960And what I think is that more international films, more excuse me, more international voters participated in this category and committed to watching those films.
01:20:33.039 -->
01:20:52.079And because they committed to watching those films, maybe because they have a different focus or a different priority setting, or maybe just they're just more interested, or maybe they were more widely available to them throughout the year through festivals or programming, etc., they were able to participate in this category at a higher clip, and then therefore the race breaks for Mr.
01:20:52.159 -->
01:20:53.039Nobody against Putin.
01:20:53.279 -->
01:20:54.319I think that's an excellent point.
01:20:54.399 -->
01:21:06.000I would just say that you know, we were hearing from you know the uh the press and variety and the Hollywood Reporter that voters were not because it's the honor system, I think, in a way.
01:21:06.159 -->
01:21:09.520I don't know how much they're, you know, uh being policed.
01:21:09.760 -->
01:21:10.399Exactly.
01:21:10.560 -->
01:21:14.000Uh to, you know, see all the nominees before voting in a category.
01:21:14.159 -->
01:21:21.279We had heard of some people who, you know, just check marked their little box and they were able to vote for the category, even though they haven't seen all the films.
01:21:21.439 -->
01:21:31.920So I guess your reasoning, if that's true, um, your reasoning would would would imply that there was a lot of loyalty to the honor system, which I don't necessarily buy.
01:21:32.079 -->
01:21:35.840You know, just you know, human beings are not that not that way.
01:21:36.399 -->
01:21:40.640Um so that's the only that's that's the only caveat that I would say, you know.
01:21:40.720 -->
01:21:51.520It it's it's it's a fascinating argument, and I think it sounds very plausible, but what about you know, all those people that we were hearing were just voting, even though they hadn't seen it in all the films?
01:21:51.920 -->
01:21:54.880We don't have experience with the actual platform, so we can't speak to it.
01:21:55.119 -->
01:22:11.439I would love to see the platform um at work because I do feel like there may be something there where just more international voters outnumbered the the voters that were based in the US, um, who maybe would have favored the perfect neighbor, but just did not get a chance to vote on it.
01:22:11.520 -->
01:22:13.039Um so I thought that was an interesting topic.
01:22:13.199 -->
01:22:13.279Right.
01:22:14.079 -->
01:22:19.199I think that's I think that's a I think that's absolutely astute, um, and certainly one of the shockers of the night.
01:22:19.600 -->
01:22:23.039No, I do think it was a great speech, a really pointed speech.
01:22:23.279 -->
01:22:25.920Um, and it was one of my favorite speeches of the night.
01:22:26.000 -->
01:22:28.319Um, and I and I think it's a worthy winner too.
01:22:28.479 -->
01:22:35.439I'm sad that Gita wasn't able to uh get the win, but I'm also I'm also fairly confident that Gita will get the win in the future.
01:22:35.760 -->
01:22:42.640Um that being said, she did make history, she had uh two nominations for two excellent work, um two excellent pieces of work.
01:22:42.800 -->
01:23:06.399I wanna bridge that with another sort of um very pointed moment, um, another very pointed speech, which was the speech for international film when Hakuim Cheer ends up winning and just uh um very quickly, um, Sentimental ended up be being the favorite at the end, um especially with all those nominations, the BAFTA win, first win for Norway, very much the way we had called it, Brazil winning back to back.
01:23:06.479 -->
01:23:10.239It's just really, really difficult, really unlikely.
01:23:10.479 -->
01:23:19.760Um, and when they have an opportunity to give it to a country that hasn't won before, especially one as well positioned at Sentimental Value, with four acting nominations, a directing nomination, and a screenplay nomination.
01:23:20.079 -->
01:23:28.319You and I, especially Mia, I had sort of said maybe this is a moment where Panahi can sneak in with everything that had going on with Iran at that moment, but that didn't come to pass.
01:23:29.199 -->
01:23:35.119Um Kim Jir definitely had very pointed words um for the state of the world about appropriate words.
01:23:35.199 -->
01:23:39.600I I can kind of bridge that between that and then the documentary feature winner, Mr.
01:23:39.680 -->
01:23:40.720Nobody Against Putin.
01:23:40.880 -->
01:23:42.560But I thought that was I thought that was interesting.
01:23:42.880 -->
01:23:43.439Absolutely.
01:23:43.600 -->
01:23:51.279Um and the secret agent, like you said, it was was uh was an early favorite after that Globe win, and it certainly seemed to be the favorite amongst regional critics.
01:23:51.359 -->
01:23:54.159But uh Sentimental Valley was just not gonna walk out empty-handed.
01:23:54.319 -->
01:23:54.479Yeah.
01:23:54.720 -->
01:24:02.960And you and I said it on our last episode if Stellan Scarf Scarborough's not winning this, then it absolutely has to win foreign language film because how it's just you can't give it zero.
01:24:03.199 -->
01:24:08.000Especially since in a in a year of five, I think we're in agreement that those would have been the five films.
01:24:08.239 -->
01:24:08.560Absolutely.
01:24:08.800 -->
01:24:12.239Marty, uh, Sentimental Value, Hamnet, Center's one battle.
01:24:12.479 -->
01:24:16.000Maybe, I guess, uh unless you want to knock out the foreign film, maybe, but I think you're right.
01:24:16.159 -->
01:24:20.880With nine nominations, it's it's very it's a very muscular choice for a option.
01:24:21.359 -->
01:24:30.800You know, speaking of who could have got on that spot, Frankenstein will without a directing nomination and with only one acting nomination versus a film that got a directing nomination and four.
01:24:32.000 -->
01:24:34.319It's possible, but I I I see where I see what you're saying.
01:24:34.399 -->
01:24:38.640Um, and I think I definitely broke it for sentimental, but also just again, timing.
01:24:38.720 -->
01:24:40.479It's always, always timing.
01:24:40.800 -->
01:24:45.760Very difficult to give it to the secret agent when I'm still here won this whole year.
01:24:45.840 -->
01:24:49.520As regional critics were handing out international film, they didn't give it away.
01:24:49.600 -->
01:24:52.399The majority of them did not give it to I'm Still Here.
01:24:52.479 -->
01:24:52.720Right.
01:24:53.039 -->
01:24:55.199Um, so it's just a matter of timing.
01:24:55.279 -->
01:24:55.520Yeah.
01:24:55.680 -->
01:24:55.920Yeah.
01:24:56.319 -->
01:24:59.279Had I'm still here not one last year, would the secret agent have won?
01:24:59.520 -->
01:25:00.159Hands down.
01:25:00.319 -->
01:25:01.840Hands down the secret agent would have won.
01:25:02.000 -->
01:25:03.680As long as Sentimental was winning something else.
01:25:03.840 -->
01:25:04.720Yeah, I'll give you that.
01:25:04.800 -->
01:25:06.880As long as we can split, and I don't know why they wouldn't.
01:25:06.960 -->
01:25:13.279I mean, last year they gave I'm still here foreign film and Amelia Perez, you know, supporting actress and a song.
01:25:13.520 -->
01:25:15.920So I think there's room to split it, you know.
01:25:16.399 -->
01:25:20.640And finally, one battle was the big winner, winning six Academy Awards.
01:25:20.800 -->
01:25:24.960It won Best Picture, it won best director, it won best adapted screenplay.
01:25:25.199 -->
01:25:29.199Um six was sort of on par with what we've seen in the last few years.
01:25:29.279 -->
01:25:31.520Um, Oppenheimer won seven, I believe.
01:25:31.760 -->
01:25:35.119Everything everywhere won seven, Honora won six.
01:25:35.199 -->
01:25:39.119Uh, I believe not actually five, because it couldn't it couldn't win six.
01:25:39.359 -->
01:25:41.359Um, so uh that made sense.
01:25:41.439 -->
01:25:55.279And I think the fact that there were two joggernauts between Sinners being the most nominated film ever and one battle, I think that might have taken some of that, you know, that possible seventh Oscar might have gotten somewhere like cinematography or something.
01:25:55.439 -->
01:25:58.560Um, but very much in the tie that we were expecting.
01:25:58.800 -->
01:26:02.079Obviously, there was no question that this was PTA's year.
01:26:02.239 -->
01:26:04.479Um I mean, Sinners made it interesting at the end.
01:26:04.640 -->
01:26:08.560I guess a little bit, but you know, in in reality, no question about it.
01:26:08.800 -->
01:26:11.680You know, Paul Thomas Anderson is a hero of ours.
01:26:11.920 -->
01:26:15.760Um, it's incredibly beautiful to see him have this very deserved moment.
01:26:16.000 -->
01:26:25.920But you know, PTA's work will stand the test of time and not in the slightest because of, you know, whatever awards it might win or an Oscar, whether that be an Oscar or anything else.
01:26:26.079 -->
01:26:33.840He's not a filmmaker that does films for any uh award sake, but still very uh very very beautiful to see him have this moment.
01:26:34.239 -->
01:26:37.520Um, very deserved, best film of the year.
01:26:37.760 -->
01:26:46.479Um, and uh yeah, you know, I I think uh that kind of you know made this Oscar season a little bit more special, I guess.
01:26:46.720 -->
01:26:47.199I agree.
01:26:47.359 -->
01:26:50.319Um, I think it's a very deserving film.
01:26:50.720 -->
01:26:54.000Um it's great to see him finally have that moment.
01:26:54.159 -->
01:27:03.520He sort of broke the PDA curse, I guess, when he won adapted screenplay, as Cassandra Kulacunda said she won one before him, um, but he won screenplay.
01:27:03.600 -->
01:27:07.199Um he mentioned how you forgot to shout out his cast at one point.
01:27:07.680 -->
01:27:11.279Um you know, it's uh happy to have it.
01:27:11.600 -->
01:27:12.880Best doesn't exist.
01:27:13.439 -->
01:27:22.000Um you know, uh he he you know said you making a cat you make a guy work really hard for this.
01:27:22.079 -->
01:27:33.760We're talking about uh an individual and artist who had, including this year, 14 nominations between producing, directing, writing, all the way back to what 1997, right?
01:27:33.920 -->
01:27:36.720So certainly one of the oldest oldest gentlemen there.
01:27:36.880 -->
01:27:41.760Certainly, you know, um that's beyond Christopher Nolan by by a few years.
01:27:42.000 -->
01:27:49.840Um so certainly someone of his a status had not won one yet, you know, his number was eventually gonna come up, one would hope.
01:27:50.000 -->
01:27:53.520Um, I did think we mentioned it on our uh on our Twitter.
01:27:53.600 -->
01:27:55.680Um, you can follow us at Academy Anon.
01:27:56.079 -->
01:27:59.760But uh the win for PTA in any category this year, uh let alone all three.
01:28:00.479 -->
01:28:12.479Um finally, you know, sets him apart from artists like Robert Altman and Federico Fellini, who have had so many nominations um in directing or directing and writing, um, and never scored a win.
01:28:13.119 -->
01:28:17.279Um directing, writing, and producing um Robert Altman.
01:28:17.520 -->
01:28:31.920Um and so it was great to see him sort of not be in the history books alongside Mavericks, you know, icons like Altman and Fellini, and to get a competitive win as opposed to an honorary Oscar like those two Titans did.
01:28:32.159 -->
01:28:42.479Um I think, you know, we have to talk about Warner Brothers um and the fact that this was such a important year for Warner Brothers.
01:28:42.640 -->
01:28:45.359Um, of course, they had a terrible year last year.
01:28:45.520 -->
01:28:58.079We talked about it, um, even though they got Dune some wins and a best picture nomination, but they completely dominated, made history of Sinners most nominations, 13 nominations for Paul Thomas Anderson's film, the most any of his films I've ever gotten.
01:28:58.239 -->
01:28:58.399Right.
01:28:58.640 -->
01:29:06.640Um, they score picture director screenplay, as you said, but also, you know, there's not a huge trajectory for Warner Brothers films winning this award.
01:29:06.720 -->
01:29:14.159And so it joins films like Argo and the Departed and Um Williandar Baby, Unforgiven.
01:29:14.239 -->
01:29:17.920These are the most recent um Warner Brothers best picture winners.
01:29:18.000 -->
01:29:21.279Of course, it comes at a moment when Warner Brothers is is bowing out.
01:29:21.439 -->
01:29:24.560Um, but Warner Brothers just decimated this year.
01:29:24.640 -->
01:29:30.159I mean, in total, it's six wins for one battle, four for sinners, that's ten.
01:29:30.560 -->
01:29:32.000Weapons gives it eleven.
01:29:32.239 -->
01:29:37.039And if you include F1, which they helped distribute theatrically, that's 12.
01:29:37.119 -->
01:29:37.359Right.
01:29:37.520 -->
01:29:38.960And that's just a massive haul.
01:29:39.039 -->
01:29:41.760And I think possibly even one of their biggest hauls.
01:29:41.920 -->
01:29:49.520Um, you have to look at, for example, a movie like My Fair Lady in the 60s, that's their most winningest film, or one of their most winningest films with eight, right?
01:29:49.680 -->
01:29:51.920One battle couldn't get there, neither could Sinners.
01:29:52.319 -->
01:29:56.640Um, but you have to look at something like 2004, last time they dominated like that.
01:29:56.800 -->
01:29:59.840Remember 2004, Million Dollar Baby, one best picture, right?
01:30:00.000 -->
01:30:10.479Picture director, two actings, and the aviator just completely took so many tech awards, including cinematography and cosmic design, and it won for Kate Blanchett.
01:30:10.560 -->
01:30:14.399I think that was a year where they scored like 10 between all their movies.
01:30:14.560 -->
01:30:20.239Um, a year like in the 70s, French Connection and uh I think Clockwork Orange is there.
01:30:20.319 -->
01:30:26.000I think they ended up scoring like maybe nine wins that year between French Connection and include and summer of 42.
01:30:26.079 -->
01:30:36.560And so this was just a historic year for Warner Brothers in terms of the Oscars for what is also a historic moment for this industry and for that huge legacy studio.
01:30:36.800 -->
01:30:52.720Um, and I think that that's that's going to be written in the history books that these wins that this historic night is concurrent with this moment, yeah, um, which is scary and which we're going to see, you know, how it develops in the coming months and the coming years.
01:30:52.960 -->
01:30:58.319Um something I will say that I I I love your commentary on is this time last year.
01:30:58.560 -->
01:31:00.159Do you remember what I was saying?
01:31:00.479 -->
01:31:00.800No.
01:31:01.119 -->
01:31:01.760Do you?
01:31:02.640 -->
01:31:02.960No.
01:31:03.439 -->
01:31:05.359Okay, and this is on record.
01:31:05.439 -->
01:31:06.960So anyone can hear this, please.
01:31:07.119 -->
01:31:08.560Our our previous episodes are up.
01:31:08.640 -->
01:31:09.760And if you're ever curious, please do.
01:31:09.920 -->
01:31:20.800On our post-mortem after Onora finally wins, one of the first things that I said was, you know, I think the win for Sean Baker, a massive win, where he gets even an editing win.
01:31:20.880 -->
01:31:25.119He wins as an editor, not just as a producer, director, you know what I mean, or uh a writer.
01:31:25.359 -->
01:31:26.560He wins as an editor.
01:31:26.720 -->
01:31:29.520It just to me, it kind of threw the rule book out there.
01:31:29.600 -->
01:31:35.439And I sort of said, it doesn't really matter what your history it is, it just matters timing, the moment.
01:31:35.840 -->
01:31:43.279Um, and I think I ended up saying that, you know, the likelihood is that Paul Thomas Anderson was never going to win.
01:31:43.520 -->
01:31:44.560That he would never win.
01:31:44.640 -->
01:31:46.800That's what I said a year ago.
01:31:47.359 -->
01:31:51.359Um yeah, and so I couldn't be happier to say that I was wrong.
01:31:51.439 -->
01:31:51.600Right.
01:31:51.840 -->
01:31:57.119Um, and that, you know, these things are largely unpredictable, and anything that can happen will happen.
01:31:57.359 -->
01:32:04.880And um it's a great thing to see in this instance, even though I'm sure it will exist in other instances where it's a very disappointing thing to see.
01:32:05.199 -->
01:32:07.119Um, so nobody knows anything.
01:32:07.359 -->
01:32:15.680Um, but I guess in this is a year where it sort of says, yeah, his legacy does matter.
01:32:15.920 -->
01:32:19.680Everything he's done has has mattered and has brought him to this point.
01:32:19.920 -->
01:32:42.399I also want to iterate that, like, very much what you're seeing is you're seeing these individuals who have had a large hand in crafting contemporary appreciation for cinema and for the art form finally get a chance to go on that stage, whether they've been industry titans like Christopher Nolan or Paul Thomas Anderson or have been on the fringes that everyone has been paying attention to, like Sean Baker.
01:32:43.039 -->
01:32:45.600You do have to play by their rules, right?
01:32:45.840 -->
01:32:52.800You know, Christopher Nolan cannot win an Oscar unless he gets a bunch of acting nominees and he gets a SAG win.
01:32:53.199 -->
01:33:01.279That's just he sort of has to he sort of has to evolve into a filmmaker that's able to meet that thing where they want him to do.
01:33:01.359 -->
01:33:03.520They want him to be able to be an actor's director.
01:33:03.760 -->
01:33:08.399And they want a film of Christopher Nolan to do the impossible and win a SAG Ensemble Award.
01:33:08.800 -->
01:33:14.640In the same way, in my opinion, where it's an amazing win for one battle, and I think it's a very deserving winner.
01:33:14.800 -->
01:33:23.600But when I put it against those movies, The Departed, uh Unforgiven, The French Connection, there's DNA there.
01:33:23.760 -->
01:33:27.920You know, this is a Paul Thomas Anderson film, but it's also very much a Warner Brothers film.
01:33:28.239 -->
01:33:35.359There are car chases, there are guns, there's violence, there's uh sex, there's commentary, right?
01:33:35.439 -->
01:33:37.840It's a very muscular piece, right?
01:33:38.000 -->
01:33:54.479Um, even if it does have its subversive elements that it's very much a Paul Thomas Anderson picture, you he he sort of was able to do under in his terms what they've wanted him to do, which is deliver a big blockbuster Warner Brothers film, which uh with a bunch of car chases.
01:33:54.560 -->
01:34:04.239And sort of same thing with Sean Baker, where like, yes, Sean Baker's able to get that win, but he had to become, in my opinion, a more pointed filmmaker with his commentary, right?
01:34:04.399 -->
01:34:12.720Um, a commentary that speaks to, in my opinion, an international discussion, not unlike Oppenheimer, not unlike one bad after another.
01:34:12.880 -->
01:34:27.680Um, those films may be set in the US, but the ramifications for what they mean as art and the discussion they're having um in their historical moment, in their historical context, has massive meaning for the international community and and certainly for the international film community.
01:34:27.760 -->
01:34:31.199And that I think is aces for a Nora that even wins the Palme d'Or.
01:34:31.359 -->
01:34:31.520Right.
01:34:31.760 -->
01:34:34.800And so I think those are it's interesting to observe those things, in my opinion.
01:34:35.119 -->
01:34:39.039I think that's very well said, and I I think that's very astute um and very true.
01:34:39.279 -->
01:34:46.800Um, I'll just, you know, repeat again that I don't think this Oscar win is the pinnacle of PTA's career.
01:34:47.039 -->
01:34:59.920Um, you know, I think the Oscars are, you know, problematic to say the least, um, and that PTA's legacy will uh you know stand the test of time and and and and outlive all of us.
01:35:00.399 -->
01:35:12.399Um uh but you know, it's just nice for him to get his you know due flowers um in whatever capacity, whether that be the Oscars or something else, you know, um any awards body.
01:35:12.560 -->
01:35:21.279Um, and uh like I said, PTA the master and uh the most rebound of rebounds for Warner Brothers.
01:35:21.359 -->
01:35:21.680Yeah.
01:35:22.000 -->
01:35:24.960Um uh and and and and bittersweet, right?
01:35:25.039 -->
01:35:26.640Yes, very bittersweet.
01:35:26.880 -->
01:35:28.880Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.
01:35:29.199 -->
01:35:37.359Yeah, and and I think I can't wait to see how this discussion evolves into next year.
01:35:37.520 -->
01:35:41.680Um, a lot of patterns we've observed, shifts in in in the industry, for example.
01:35:41.760 -->
01:35:45.520I mean, the sag is now down twice from a sag ensemble win.
01:35:45.680 -->
01:35:47.039They've been off twice.
01:35:47.279 -->
01:35:48.239Kind of interesting.
01:35:48.399 -->
01:35:52.399Got a new category, be interesting to see how that plays out in casting.
01:35:52.720 -->
01:35:53.760Stunt is coming out too.
01:35:54.159 -->
01:36:04.880New category coming in, phasing out uh the way the Oscars have been traditionally presented on uh basic on basic with ABC, for example.
01:36:05.039 -->
01:36:06.239We'll see what happens there.
01:36:06.479 -->
01:36:07.680I think it's 2029.
01:36:07.920 -->
01:36:08.960Is that 2029?
01:36:09.279 -->
01:36:09.920I'm not sure, I think.
01:36:10.159 -->
01:36:16.239But we're certainly on the last couple of instances where this is going to be the case, um, that it's on basic.
01:36:16.399 -->
01:36:17.840Um, but I agree with you.
01:36:17.920 -->
01:36:22.880There's something incredibly bittersweet about it, and also hugely preoccupying, right?
01:36:23.039 -->
01:36:25.520In terms of what it's going to look like.
01:36:26.239 -->
01:36:35.119Um yeah, um, I do think that there are some overarching trends, and I wonder if we're gonna be able to see that next year or maybe guess that into next year.
01:36:35.359 -->
01:36:56.720You know, some filmmakers who maybe are going to deliver um very important work, very urgent work, work that does not shy away from saying something, um, and whether that's something to look look for, um, whether we're going to maybe go back a little bit and and maybe start um rewarding some more some newer voices.
01:36:56.960 -->
01:37:02.399Um, I remember um when um The Daniels won for Everything Everywhere.
01:37:02.720 -->
01:37:04.479We've it's been a it's been a while since that.
01:37:04.560 -->
01:37:07.119We've been rewarding filmmakers with longer trajectories.
01:37:07.439 -->
01:37:09.760Um it'll be interesting to see if that holds up.
01:37:09.920 -->
01:37:10.079Yeah.
01:37:10.479 -->
01:37:17.199Um I do, I do like, I don't know if you would agree, but I do like that it feels like we're entering into this moment of filmmaking.
01:37:17.680 -->
01:37:24.880Not unlike, you know, uh a moment that we grew up in, which was, you know, um the what do they call it?
01:37:25.199 -->
01:37:27.359The Ots, you know, was it the Ots?
01:37:27.520 -->
01:37:43.840No, or the the 2000s, you know, when we had films like No Country for All Men and The Departed winning Oscars and and having a huge chunk of the conversation, you know, and uh the darker history gets, the films tend to imitate that.
01:37:44.239 -->
01:37:48.159And I wonder how we'll see that surface this year.
01:37:48.319 -->
01:37:48.960Yeah, right?
01:37:49.279 -->
01:37:49.520100%.
01:37:49.840 -->
01:37:50.640I 100% agree.
01:37:50.800 -->
01:37:52.960But we may be heading into that territory.
01:37:53.039 -->
01:37:53.520Do you agree?
01:37:53.680 -->
01:37:58.319Where we're we're not gonna be getting too many optimistic best fiction players.
01:37:58.640 -->
01:38:08.479Yeah, but even even just over the last few years, it's hard to see the academy that gave very deserved Oscars to, you know, one battle.
01:38:08.560 -->
01:38:20.399And and I certainly think Honora Um and Oppenheimer was a big movie for several people, kind of stand alongside giving an Oscar to Green Book, which was like 2018.
01:38:20.560 -->
01:38:20.800Right.
01:38:20.960 -->
01:38:27.199You know, so even though 2018 wasn't that long ago, it feels like we're in new territory.
01:38:27.359 -->
01:38:31.680Yeah, it feels like it doesn't feel like Green Book would could win now.
01:38:31.920 -->
01:38:32.159Yeah.
01:38:32.239 -->
01:38:37.359I like I said, I mean, unless we're gonna come up to this moment, and again, maybe in a year I'm I'm swelling my words.
01:38:37.600 -->
01:38:43.439It doesn't feel like what the academy at large wants to embrace right now is blind optimism.
01:38:43.520 -->
01:38:43.840Yeah.
01:38:44.159 -->
01:38:48.880Um, I think we really want to scrutinize, you know, well, there was coda also.
01:38:49.119 -->
01:38:55.279Which again is I I would argue that that's that is going on during a more optimistic moment.
01:38:55.359 -->
01:38:56.239Yeah, right.
01:38:56.319 -->
01:38:56.479Yeah.
01:38:56.720 -->
01:39:03.279A moment where there's a little bit more hope as to where we can get to, as a lot of fear as to where we're at.
01:39:03.359 -->
01:39:03.760Yeah.
01:39:03.920 -->
01:39:06.319Um, and it'll be interesting to see.
01:39:06.640 -->
01:39:08.000This is always a conversation, right?
01:39:08.079 -->
01:39:10.239It'll be interesting to see how that shows up this year.
01:39:10.319 -->
01:39:10.560Yeah.
01:39:10.800 -->
01:39:21.279Um, and also what film, what new voices are gonna stand out, um, what uh voices from the past are gonna re-emerge, what voices are finally gonna get their due.
01:39:21.600 -->
01:39:24.000Um, a lot of things to look forward to.
01:39:24.319 -->
01:39:28.159Very unprecedented times, very scary times.
01:39:28.560 -->
01:39:32.640Um and the art and the cinema will reflect that.
01:39:32.880 -->
01:39:33.520Yes, right?
01:39:33.760 -->
01:39:34.479As it always does.
01:39:34.640 -->
01:39:34.960Yeah.
01:39:35.119 -->
01:39:40.560Um, and so this is our final episode for this season, season two of Academy Anonymous.
01:39:40.640 -->
01:39:43.199We want to thank all of you listeners for sticking with us.
01:39:43.359 -->
01:39:50.319We've enjoyed covering the race, we've enjoyed exploring um everything that uh has happened up to this moment.
01:39:50.560 -->
01:39:56.479We've enjoyed analyzing it, um, trying to decipher what it means, what it could lead to, predicting what outcomes are.
01:39:56.560 -->
01:40:02.399I will say, I think it's poor to say how did we end up doing, I think, for our overall total, less than what we wanted.
01:40:02.640 -->
01:40:04.800Unfortunately, we got five wrong.
01:40:05.039 -->
01:40:05.359Right.
01:40:05.520 -->
01:40:10.239Um, and you know, that's the we we said this in the episode when we predicted the nominees.
01:40:10.399 -->
01:40:14.720It's always more fun to predict the nominations because honestly, I'll give you 100%.
01:40:15.359 -->
01:40:19.199If you just copied Gold Derby, you would have gotten three wrong.
01:40:19.359 -->
01:40:19.680Yeah.
01:40:19.840 -->
01:40:21.920You would have gotten three freaking wrong.
01:40:22.000 -->
01:40:22.079Yeah.
01:40:22.239 -->
01:40:22.960You know what I'm saying?
01:40:23.119 -->
01:40:28.159And we took a chance in some categories like visual effects, uh, which bet us in the butt.
01:40:28.239 -->
01:40:29.199Uh we did.
01:40:30.159 -->
01:40:32.399But you know, that's why it's a little less fun.
01:40:32.479 -->
01:40:35.920Yeah, everything is is is more crystallized, it's more cemented.
01:40:36.159 -->
01:40:39.840You know, the real fun is can you guess the five?
01:40:40.079 -->
01:40:41.840Can you guess the five nominees in each other?
01:40:41.920 -->
01:40:43.600I would argue that's the real challenge, too.
01:40:43.920 -->
01:40:45.920I mean, I mean, guessing what, 23 winners?
01:40:46.399 -->
01:40:47.920Separates the men from the boys.
01:40:48.079 -->
01:40:48.399Yeah.
01:40:48.560 -->
01:40:56.479Um, you want to be an adult in the room, then you have to be able to predict um the range of nominees throughout, and it's as you said, more fun.
01:40:56.640 -->
01:41:05.039Um, so we did end up getting a little bit lower than we wanted, kind of happy with some calls that we didn't make, stuck to our guns with the singers, switched to the girl cracked.
01:41:06.720 -->
01:41:09.039Um, you know, we matched certain people.
01:41:09.199 -->
01:41:14.479We had a lot of people like us had the reversal of casting and cinematography and the swap.
01:41:14.880 -->
01:41:19.760Um, and so uh yeah, it's it's it's been a great season.
01:41:19.840 -->
01:41:21.439We want to thank you all for joining us.
01:41:21.600 -->
01:41:23.840Um, we're signing off for this season.
01:41:23.920 -->
01:41:26.560Um look for us around Cannes.
01:41:26.640 -->
01:41:28.000Um, we'll be going to CAN.
01:41:28.319 -->
01:41:33.439Um, I think right now we're thinking about how we're going to be sharing with you guys our experiences at Cannes.
01:41:33.600 -->
01:41:35.760Maybe we'll we'll be more active on Twitter.
01:41:35.840 -->
01:41:39.039You might see us, uh, you might you know hear from us there.
01:41:39.199 -->
01:41:39.359Yeah.
01:41:39.520 -->
01:41:42.640Um, or maybe we'll do a quick episode before we leave for our trip.
01:41:42.800 -->
01:41:46.560Kind of just you spitballing like uh titles that we think could be on it.
01:41:46.640 -->
01:41:50.960But we'll definitely be on the ground at CAN, seeing what this year has to offer.
01:41:51.199 -->
01:41:58.000Can has, you know, the the you know, whatever shows up at CAN, you can expect people to be talking about it for the next 12 months.
01:41:58.239 -->
01:41:58.319Right.
01:41:58.479 -->
01:41:59.279Um, so it's always fun.
01:42:00.399 -->
01:42:01.680It's always fun to be there.
01:42:01.840 -->
01:42:05.920Um, looking forward to it and to sharing with you guys our experiences.
01:42:06.000 -->
01:42:06.159Yeah.
01:42:06.239 -->
01:42:07.760So look for us around that time.
01:42:07.920 -->
01:42:10.239We'll be taking a brief uh ATIS from the podcast.
01:42:10.399 -->
01:42:22.800We will still be um uh catching up with everyone on social media at Academy None as our Twitter handle, and we will try to keep uh the website a little bit more up to date and um drop any news there if we can.
01:42:23.039 -->
01:42:27.680Um, you know, maybe we will do a a little bit of a prediction, projection for Can.
01:42:28.079 -->
01:42:32.720Um we'll discuss ways to get you guys involved into um the things we see.
01:42:32.960 -->
01:42:37.039Um then of course there's a lot to cover already um as we speak.
01:42:37.199 -->
01:42:39.600Uh Project Helmary has come out, it's done well.
01:42:39.680 -->
01:42:40.720There's been some talk there.
01:42:40.800 -->
01:42:43.039Yeah, um, South by Southwest, Sundance.
01:42:43.199 -->
01:42:49.359These are all things that we are going to cover um in season three of the Academy Anonymous podcast.
01:42:49.520 -->
01:42:51.840Um, so thank you for joining us.
01:42:52.000 -->
01:42:58.960We look forward to uh sharing our thoughts with everyone next season um in just a little bit of time.
01:42:59.119 -->
01:43:06.800Um thank you so much for sticking with us, hearing us out, uh, going on this journey with us.
01:43:06.960 -->
01:43:09.840We appreciate all of you, all of our listeners.
01:43:10.319 -->
01:43:13.439And uh till next time, I'm Joseph.
01:43:13.600 -->
01:43:16.399And I'm Jules, and it's been a pleasure.
01:43:21.840 -->
01:43:28.319If you've been enjoying the Academy Anonymous podcast and want to support the work we're doing, there's a voluntary support link in the show notes.
01:43:28.479 -->
01:43:29.439Totally optional.
01:43:29.600 -->
01:43:31.760Just a way to help us keep the podcast going.
01:43:32.079 -->
01:43:33.600Thank you for listening.
01:43:36.000 -->
01:43:44.880The music on this episode, entitled Cool Cats, was graciously provided by Kevin McLeod and Incompitech.com.
01:43:45.439 -->
01:43:50.000Licensed under Creative Commons by Attribution 3.0.
01:43:50.800 -->
01:44:05.279HTTP colon forward slash forward slash Creative Commons.org forward slash licenses forward slash by forward slash three point zero.
01:44:06.000 -->
01:44:07.279Disclaimer.
01:44:07.680 -->
01:44:15.279The Academy Anonymous Podcast is in no way affiliated or endorsed by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.
