00:00:00
Speaker 1: Last week, US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gathered hundreds of service members at a base in Virginia to lay out his vision for the American military.
00:00:09
Speaker 2: Our national motto is, after all, in God we trust. Today, we reaffirm that trust.
00:00:18
Speaker 1: Alongside sweeping changes to the way it fights and trains, Hegseth announced a new Office of Religious Affairs reporting directly to him, aimed at putting what he calls spiritual health on the same level as physical health.
00:00:32
Speaker 2: Our department is, you might say, putting on the full armor of God.
00:00:37
Speaker 3: Because while we wage physical war, we all know the real battle is spiritual.
00:00:43
Speaker 1: It's the clearest sign yet of how HECSA's evangelical Christianity is shaping the Pentagon and religious policy across the armed forces. Earlier this year, we looked at the police driving HECSA's push to remake the military. and why Donald Trump chose him to wage a cultural and ideological battle inside it, bringing so-called warrior culture back to an institution they believed had gone woke. I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to 7am. Today, former Voice of America Chief National Correspondent Steve Herman on Pete Hexeth, Christian Nationalism and the Religious Worldview with Shaping the US Military. It's Sunday, October 11. This episode first aired in March 2026.
00:01:35
Speaker 4: Steve, when President Trump picked Pete Hegzeth for the Defence Secretary, he chose someone who would not only shake up the Pentagon, but Trump used to joke about him being TV ready. He was a Fox News commentator. Later, he was a host. Could you tell us a bit about his earlier years, his reputation at university and And then when he was a TV personality, what was it he liked to talk about?
00:01:58
Speaker 5: Well, unlike some in the MAGA inner circle, Hegseth has been pretty consistent in his views for a long time. He was a publisher of the Tory conservative student magazine when he was at Princeton University. And he was railing back then about liberal indoctrination. He strongly opposed the diversity initiatives. And he was a member of a circle of religious conservative athletes.
00:02:32
Speaker 6: They had a nickname.
00:02:33
Speaker 5: They were called the God Squad. And classmates remember him as deeply committed to this kind of crusade against the liberal culture on campus. And then when he got on the Fox News channel, Hegseth built on this reputation as opposing the woke ideology.
00:02:57
Speaker 1: We've got a new sheriff in town.
00:02:59
Speaker 3: The social justice engineering of Obama, the focus on gender and quotas and all the things he did in the Pentagon, which have nothing to do with fighting and winning.
00:03:07
Speaker 5: Wars, that era's over. Especially within the Department of Defense.
00:03:11
Speaker 7: You don't like women in combat?
00:03:13
Speaker 5: No. Hegseth, maybe as a result of his experience in the military, in the field, has a kind of chip on his shoulder. And he frequently argued that these DEI initiatives were undermining the lethality of the military. Return the Pentagon to the warfighters, Pete.
00:03:33
Speaker 8: Get in there and clean out all the social justice, politically correct garbage on top and get back to lethality, warfighting, accountability, meritocracy and readiness.
00:03:45
Speaker 4: So, Steve, what was the appeal for Trump of bringing on Hegseth other than he's TV good looks.
00:03:53
Speaker 7: Why did he want him to run the Pentagon?
00:03:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, that had a lot to do with it, Nicole. This is somebody that Donald Trump, an avid TV watcher, especially of Fox News, had seen on a program called Fox and Friends Weekend. And he viewed Hegseth as somebody he thought would be trustworthy, wouldn't leak to the press, wouldn't push back on presidential directives because in the first administration, Donald Trump had a lot of problems with these military generals who really felt that their obedience was to the Constitution, not any particular individual or president.
00:04:33
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we have had leaders who either refused to call BS and enforce standards or leaders who felt like they.
00:04:39
Speaker 2: Were not allowed to enforce standards.
00:04:43
Speaker 6: Both are unacceptable.
00:04:44
Speaker 5: And Hegseth also, I think, mirrored Trump in rhetoric. And with Trump's political brand is trying to appeal to the enlisted soldier, the rank and file, rather than the generals and the admirals and the other high-ranking officers. And because the common man is engaged in this internal battle here in the country against this entrenched so-called deep state, that's the way that they see it.
00:05:14
Speaker 4: Steve, as you were saying, religion clearly a very big part of Hegseth's life. Now he follows an evangelical church. Could you tell us more about how religion has really informed and influenced his politics now and his view of the world and view of America's place in it?
00:05:33
Speaker 5: Hegseth essentially views the United States as a Christian republic and a republic that finds itself in a state of spiritual and cultural warfare. I think anyone who's studied anything about American history is familiar with this concept of the separation of church and state. But folks like Pete Hegseth don't see it that way or say that that's not what the country should be. He has these tattoos, the Jerusalem Cross, a Latin phrase that means God wills it.
00:06:08
Speaker 4: Hegseth has tattoos associated with the white supremacist and neo-Nazi movements.
00:06:13
Speaker 1: Including what's known as a Jerusalem cross, a symbol used by Christian nationalists.
00:06:18
Speaker 5: And these are symbols of the warrior Christian identity. Where it gets really dangerous is that in this framing, the conflicts of the Middle East are seen not as some sort of fluid geopolitical activity, but rather part of God's divine plan.
00:06:41
Speaker 4: Yes, because as an evangelical, he believes in the second coming of Christ, which would require Jewish people to return to the Holy Land.
00:06:49
Speaker 7: That's the belief there.
00:06:51
Speaker 4: So is that why Israel, I guess, is such a central part of his views and why he's such a huge supporter of them.
00:07:00
Speaker 5: Yes, in the conversations I've had over the decades with the Christian evangelicals who subscribe to this particular aspect of ideology, they need to protect the Jews. The United States must support Israel because if the Arabs wipe out Israel, then Jesus won't be able to come back to earth. You know, so there's a bit of discomfort, I can tell you, among some Jews. Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, has sort of embraced this because, hey, we'll take our friends where we can find them. And, you know, Netanyahu would say, I don't believe in this, but if they do and it helps Israel, that's great. But other Jews will point out, that, hey, these Christians are supporting us, not because they like Jews, in fact, they would love for all Jews eventually to become Christians, but rather this is fulfilling a biblical prophecy from the New Testament.
00:08:07
Speaker 7: Coming up, will Pete Hegzeth fall on his sword?
00:08:19
Speaker 3: From this moment forward, the only mission of the newly restored Department of War is this, war fighting, preparing for war and preparing to win, unrelenting and uncompromising in that pursuit.
00:08:35
Speaker 4: Steve, Pete Hegseth, he's obsessed with strength and power. He changed the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War. He's been releasing these sort of strange video promos about drug cartels. the Iran war, to what extent do you think he's there for Trump to look tough, overhaul the military and just deliver the president's message? Is that his role or does Trump really even listen to him?
00:09:04
Speaker 5: One thing I can tell you about Donald Trump and advice is a lot of the time it's just the last person that Trump has spoken to who wins out. He has obviously shown that he likes to be at the lectern lecturing, whether they're generals or reporters.
00:09:23
Speaker 2: It's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country and the world.
00:09:30
Speaker 5: It's a bad look.
00:09:31
Speaker 2: It is bad, and it's not.
00:09:32
Speaker 5: Who we are. He's made some strange and insulting statements, belittling people. But what I think you see among Trump cabinet members in the second term, and we can point out the the former Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, as an example, that you engage in behavior that emulates the boss. But I really think there's a limit. And if the performance eventually refines, poorly on the administration, then the strategy can backfire. And if this war ends up badly for the Pentagon and U.S. forces, it seems almost undoubtedly that Pete Hegseth will have to fall on the sword because Donald Trump is not going to blame Donald Trump.
00:10:19
Speaker 7: We know Hegseth, he is the public face of all of this war.
00:10:23
Speaker 4: And he has been talking about it in really religious terms as part of God's divine plan.
00:10:29
Speaker 2: May Almighty God continue to bless our troops in this fight. And again, to the American people, please pray for them every day on bended knee with your family, in your schools, in your churches, in the name of Jesus Christ.
00:10:45
Speaker 4: Some of the commanders are also starting to use that similar language. What do we know about how religion is really being used to frame this war?
00:10:54
Speaker 7: And is it changing the nature of the debate in the US?
00:10:59
Speaker 5: We did not mix in decades past Christianity and defense policy. But I think we're very clearly at that point these days. Is it changing how the war is being discussed in America? I don't really think so because the American people, Congress, the US allies, aren't getting really any sufficient explanation about why this war was started, how it's going to be fought, what is the goal, what is the post-war plan that there's going to be. That's the big problem. And you also have the President referring to the potential of further attacks as possibly being launched, not because there's a strategic reason, but because it's fun.
00:11:53
Speaker 4: At the top of the line, I said, why didn't we just capture the ship?
00:11:55
Speaker 6: We could have used it. Why didn't we sink them? He said, it's more fun to sink them. They like sinking them better.
00:12:03
Speaker 5: And the Pentagon and the White House are producing these video game memes. Since the conflict broke out, we've seen both Iran and the U.S. embrace a new style of war, propaganda.
00:12:14
Speaker 6: Notably using memes, AI, and trolling. We're going to annihilate their navy.
00:12:21
Speaker 5: We're going to ensure that the region's terrorist proxies can no longer destabilize the region or the world. There seems to be a mix of a really shocking level of unseriousness You know, a lot of civilians are dying in Iran.
00:12:39
Speaker 6: U.S.
00:12:40
Speaker 5: Military forces are dying. And I think there's a significant percentage of the American public that's finding this offensive, objectionable. And we're starting to see a backlash against that. There's the politician in Texas who's running for the U.S. Senate, a Democrat that seems to have a chance in a very red state, James Tallarico. who is a conservative Christian, but he is bluntly saying that what is happening now, these are not Christian values, whether it relates to immigration or the conduct of this war.
00:13:18
Speaker 9: They have co-opted the son of God. They've turned this humble rabbi into a gun-toting, gay-bashing, science-denying, money-loving, fear-mongering fascist. And it is incumbent upon all Christians to confront it, And denounce it.
00:13:36
Speaker 4: And Steve, what do you think Hegseth really says to us about the future or the direction of U.S.
00:13:40
Speaker 7: Politics under Trump? What is it he symbolizes?
00:13:44
Speaker 5: Well, I think what he symbolizes is that people are put into these positions as puppets, that they must be loyal to the president. First and foremost, that is what is important. And we're hearing terms being thrown out by Trump, by Hegseth. that broadcasters who don't get in line and report the war the way that the president wants it reported, that those broadcasters could lose their license. And the word treason is being bandied about as well. So this is getting extremely serious. It's getting to be beyond intimidation. And, you know, this is not what American media is about because we have the First Amendment of the Constitution. in this country, which guarantees freedom of the press. Look, if you want to put in sycophants and goofballs and billionaires as the Secretary of the Interior or the head of the Environmental Protection Agency or something like that, there's a limited amount of.
00:14:53
Speaker 6: Damage they can do.
00:14:55
Speaker 5: But when you're talking about, you know, the head of Homeland Security or the Director of National Intelligence or the the defense secretary, the U.S. attorney general. I think even a lot of people in MAGA world and supporters of the president would agree that he probably was not the right man, because it's going to be a man, for the right job at the right time.
00:15:28
Speaker 7: Steve, it's been a real pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for joining us.
00:15:31
Speaker 6: My pleasure, Nicole.
00:15:44
Speaker 1: 7am, we'll be back tomorrow with the story of Kath Madgwick, whose 22-year-old son, Jared, died after being told he owed Centrelink nearly $ 2, 000. His death became one of the most devastating stories of the Robodex scandal. But seven years later, after fighting for answers and giving evidence to the Royal Commission... Kath has been told her family isn't eligible for compensation.
00:16:05
Speaker 7: Do you feel like there has been any accountability or any justice?
00:16:09
Speaker 6: No.
00:16:10
Speaker 7: Not for Jared.
00:16:11
Speaker 6: Not at all. Um.
00:16:14
Speaker 7: I mean, how would they feel if that was their child?
00:16:17
Speaker 5: This is my child.
00:16:18
Speaker 6: This is my life.
00:16:19
Speaker 1: That's tomorrow on 7am. I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening.
00:16:27
Speaker 6: MUSIC you
Speaker 1: Last week, US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gathered hundreds of service members at a base in Virginia to lay out his vision for the American military.
00:00:09
Speaker 2: Our national motto is, after all, in God we trust. Today, we reaffirm that trust.
00:00:18
Speaker 1: Alongside sweeping changes to the way it fights and trains, Hegseth announced a new Office of Religious Affairs reporting directly to him, aimed at putting what he calls spiritual health on the same level as physical health.
00:00:32
Speaker 2: Our department is, you might say, putting on the full armor of God.
00:00:37
Speaker 3: Because while we wage physical war, we all know the real battle is spiritual.
00:00:43
Speaker 1: It's the clearest sign yet of how HECSA's evangelical Christianity is shaping the Pentagon and religious policy across the armed forces. Earlier this year, we looked at the police driving HECSA's push to remake the military. and why Donald Trump chose him to wage a cultural and ideological battle inside it, bringing so-called warrior culture back to an institution they believed had gone woke. I'm Daniel James, and you're listening to 7am. Today, former Voice of America Chief National Correspondent Steve Herman on Pete Hexeth, Christian Nationalism and the Religious Worldview with Shaping the US Military. It's Sunday, October 11. This episode first aired in March 2026.
00:01:35
Speaker 4: Steve, when President Trump picked Pete Hegzeth for the Defence Secretary, he chose someone who would not only shake up the Pentagon, but Trump used to joke about him being TV ready. He was a Fox News commentator. Later, he was a host. Could you tell us a bit about his earlier years, his reputation at university and And then when he was a TV personality, what was it he liked to talk about?
00:01:58
Speaker 5: Well, unlike some in the MAGA inner circle, Hegseth has been pretty consistent in his views for a long time. He was a publisher of the Tory conservative student magazine when he was at Princeton University. And he was railing back then about liberal indoctrination. He strongly opposed the diversity initiatives. And he was a member of a circle of religious conservative athletes.
00:02:32
Speaker 6: They had a nickname.
00:02:33
Speaker 5: They were called the God Squad. And classmates remember him as deeply committed to this kind of crusade against the liberal culture on campus. And then when he got on the Fox News channel, Hegseth built on this reputation as opposing the woke ideology.
00:02:57
Speaker 1: We've got a new sheriff in town.
00:02:59
Speaker 3: The social justice engineering of Obama, the focus on gender and quotas and all the things he did in the Pentagon, which have nothing to do with fighting and winning.
00:03:07
Speaker 5: Wars, that era's over. Especially within the Department of Defense.
00:03:11
Speaker 7: You don't like women in combat?
00:03:13
Speaker 5: No. Hegseth, maybe as a result of his experience in the military, in the field, has a kind of chip on his shoulder. And he frequently argued that these DEI initiatives were undermining the lethality of the military. Return the Pentagon to the warfighters, Pete.
00:03:33
Speaker 8: Get in there and clean out all the social justice, politically correct garbage on top and get back to lethality, warfighting, accountability, meritocracy and readiness.
00:03:45
Speaker 4: So, Steve, what was the appeal for Trump of bringing on Hegseth other than he's TV good looks.
00:03:53
Speaker 7: Why did he want him to run the Pentagon?
00:03:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, that had a lot to do with it, Nicole. This is somebody that Donald Trump, an avid TV watcher, especially of Fox News, had seen on a program called Fox and Friends Weekend. And he viewed Hegseth as somebody he thought would be trustworthy, wouldn't leak to the press, wouldn't push back on presidential directives because in the first administration, Donald Trump had a lot of problems with these military generals who really felt that their obedience was to the Constitution, not any particular individual or president.
00:04:33
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, we have had leaders who either refused to call BS and enforce standards or leaders who felt like they.
00:04:39
Speaker 2: Were not allowed to enforce standards.
00:04:43
Speaker 6: Both are unacceptable.
00:04:44
Speaker 5: And Hegseth also, I think, mirrored Trump in rhetoric. And with Trump's political brand is trying to appeal to the enlisted soldier, the rank and file, rather than the generals and the admirals and the other high-ranking officers. And because the common man is engaged in this internal battle here in the country against this entrenched so-called deep state, that's the way that they see it.
00:05:14
Speaker 4: Steve, as you were saying, religion clearly a very big part of Hegseth's life. Now he follows an evangelical church. Could you tell us more about how religion has really informed and influenced his politics now and his view of the world and view of America's place in it?
00:05:33
Speaker 5: Hegseth essentially views the United States as a Christian republic and a republic that finds itself in a state of spiritual and cultural warfare. I think anyone who's studied anything about American history is familiar with this concept of the separation of church and state. But folks like Pete Hegseth don't see it that way or say that that's not what the country should be. He has these tattoos, the Jerusalem Cross, a Latin phrase that means God wills it.
00:06:08
Speaker 4: Hegseth has tattoos associated with the white supremacist and neo-Nazi movements.
00:06:13
Speaker 1: Including what's known as a Jerusalem cross, a symbol used by Christian nationalists.
00:06:18
Speaker 5: And these are symbols of the warrior Christian identity. Where it gets really dangerous is that in this framing, the conflicts of the Middle East are seen not as some sort of fluid geopolitical activity, but rather part of God's divine plan.
00:06:41
Speaker 4: Yes, because as an evangelical, he believes in the second coming of Christ, which would require Jewish people to return to the Holy Land.
00:06:49
Speaker 7: That's the belief there.
00:06:51
Speaker 4: So is that why Israel, I guess, is such a central part of his views and why he's such a huge supporter of them.
00:07:00
Speaker 5: Yes, in the conversations I've had over the decades with the Christian evangelicals who subscribe to this particular aspect of ideology, they need to protect the Jews. The United States must support Israel because if the Arabs wipe out Israel, then Jesus won't be able to come back to earth. You know, so there's a bit of discomfort, I can tell you, among some Jews. Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, has sort of embraced this because, hey, we'll take our friends where we can find them. And, you know, Netanyahu would say, I don't believe in this, but if they do and it helps Israel, that's great. But other Jews will point out, that, hey, these Christians are supporting us, not because they like Jews, in fact, they would love for all Jews eventually to become Christians, but rather this is fulfilling a biblical prophecy from the New Testament.
00:08:07
Speaker 7: Coming up, will Pete Hegzeth fall on his sword?
00:08:19
Speaker 3: From this moment forward, the only mission of the newly restored Department of War is this, war fighting, preparing for war and preparing to win, unrelenting and uncompromising in that pursuit.
00:08:35
Speaker 4: Steve, Pete Hegseth, he's obsessed with strength and power. He changed the name of the Department of Defense to the Department of War. He's been releasing these sort of strange video promos about drug cartels. the Iran war, to what extent do you think he's there for Trump to look tough, overhaul the military and just deliver the president's message? Is that his role or does Trump really even listen to him?
00:09:04
Speaker 5: One thing I can tell you about Donald Trump and advice is a lot of the time it's just the last person that Trump has spoken to who wins out. He has obviously shown that he likes to be at the lectern lecturing, whether they're generals or reporters.
00:09:23
Speaker 2: It's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon and leading commands around the country and the world.
00:09:30
Speaker 5: It's a bad look.
00:09:31
Speaker 2: It is bad, and it's not.
00:09:32
Speaker 5: Who we are. He's made some strange and insulting statements, belittling people. But what I think you see among Trump cabinet members in the second term, and we can point out the the former Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem, as an example, that you engage in behavior that emulates the boss. But I really think there's a limit. And if the performance eventually refines, poorly on the administration, then the strategy can backfire. And if this war ends up badly for the Pentagon and U.S. forces, it seems almost undoubtedly that Pete Hegseth will have to fall on the sword because Donald Trump is not going to blame Donald Trump.
00:10:19
Speaker 7: We know Hegseth, he is the public face of all of this war.
00:10:23
Speaker 4: And he has been talking about it in really religious terms as part of God's divine plan.
00:10:29
Speaker 2: May Almighty God continue to bless our troops in this fight. And again, to the American people, please pray for them every day on bended knee with your family, in your schools, in your churches, in the name of Jesus Christ.
00:10:45
Speaker 4: Some of the commanders are also starting to use that similar language. What do we know about how religion is really being used to frame this war?
00:10:54
Speaker 7: And is it changing the nature of the debate in the US?
00:10:59
Speaker 5: We did not mix in decades past Christianity and defense policy. But I think we're very clearly at that point these days. Is it changing how the war is being discussed in America? I don't really think so because the American people, Congress, the US allies, aren't getting really any sufficient explanation about why this war was started, how it's going to be fought, what is the goal, what is the post-war plan that there's going to be. That's the big problem. And you also have the President referring to the potential of further attacks as possibly being launched, not because there's a strategic reason, but because it's fun.
00:11:53
Speaker 4: At the top of the line, I said, why didn't we just capture the ship?
00:11:55
Speaker 6: We could have used it. Why didn't we sink them? He said, it's more fun to sink them. They like sinking them better.
00:12:03
Speaker 5: And the Pentagon and the White House are producing these video game memes. Since the conflict broke out, we've seen both Iran and the U.S. embrace a new style of war, propaganda.
00:12:14
Speaker 6: Notably using memes, AI, and trolling. We're going to annihilate their navy.
00:12:21
Speaker 5: We're going to ensure that the region's terrorist proxies can no longer destabilize the region or the world. There seems to be a mix of a really shocking level of unseriousness You know, a lot of civilians are dying in Iran.
00:12:39
Speaker 6: U.S.
00:12:40
Speaker 5: Military forces are dying. And I think there's a significant percentage of the American public that's finding this offensive, objectionable. And we're starting to see a backlash against that. There's the politician in Texas who's running for the U.S. Senate, a Democrat that seems to have a chance in a very red state, James Tallarico. who is a conservative Christian, but he is bluntly saying that what is happening now, these are not Christian values, whether it relates to immigration or the conduct of this war.
00:13:18
Speaker 9: They have co-opted the son of God. They've turned this humble rabbi into a gun-toting, gay-bashing, science-denying, money-loving, fear-mongering fascist. And it is incumbent upon all Christians to confront it, And denounce it.
00:13:36
Speaker 4: And Steve, what do you think Hegseth really says to us about the future or the direction of U.S.
00:13:40
Speaker 7: Politics under Trump? What is it he symbolizes?
00:13:44
Speaker 5: Well, I think what he symbolizes is that people are put into these positions as puppets, that they must be loyal to the president. First and foremost, that is what is important. And we're hearing terms being thrown out by Trump, by Hegseth. that broadcasters who don't get in line and report the war the way that the president wants it reported, that those broadcasters could lose their license. And the word treason is being bandied about as well. So this is getting extremely serious. It's getting to be beyond intimidation. And, you know, this is not what American media is about because we have the First Amendment of the Constitution. in this country, which guarantees freedom of the press. Look, if you want to put in sycophants and goofballs and billionaires as the Secretary of the Interior or the head of the Environmental Protection Agency or something like that, there's a limited amount of.
00:14:53
Speaker 6: Damage they can do.
00:14:55
Speaker 5: But when you're talking about, you know, the head of Homeland Security or the Director of National Intelligence or the the defense secretary, the U.S. attorney general. I think even a lot of people in MAGA world and supporters of the president would agree that he probably was not the right man, because it's going to be a man, for the right job at the right time.
00:15:28
Speaker 7: Steve, it's been a real pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for joining us.
00:15:31
Speaker 6: My pleasure, Nicole.
00:15:44
Speaker 1: 7am, we'll be back tomorrow with the story of Kath Madgwick, whose 22-year-old son, Jared, died after being told he owed Centrelink nearly $ 2, 000. His death became one of the most devastating stories of the Robodex scandal. But seven years later, after fighting for answers and giving evidence to the Royal Commission... Kath has been told her family isn't eligible for compensation.
00:16:05
Speaker 7: Do you feel like there has been any accountability or any justice?
00:16:09
Speaker 6: No.
00:16:10
Speaker 7: Not for Jared.
00:16:11
Speaker 6: Not at all. Um.
00:16:14
Speaker 7: I mean, how would they feel if that was their child?
00:16:17
Speaker 5: This is my child.
00:16:18
Speaker 6: This is my life.
00:16:19
Speaker 1: That's tomorrow on 7am. I'm Daniel James. Thanks for listening.
00:16:27
Speaker 6: MUSIC you
