Knitting for creative expression with Dana Williams-Johnson

Mia Hobbs:
00:00:03
Hello, and welcome to the why I knit podcast. My name



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:06
is Dr. Mia Hobbs, and I'm a clinical psychologist who's



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:09
passionate about knitting and its benefits for our mental



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:11
health. Each week on the podcast, I interview a different



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:14
knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their well



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:17
being. This is the last episode of Series one, and I'm very



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:22
lucky to be joined by Dana Williams Johnson or DW J, who is



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:26
a Professor of Marketing and a passionate knitter of sweaters



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:30
for humans and very small dogs. You can find out more about Dana



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:34
by reading her blog at www dot yards of happiness.com. She's



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:38
also on Instagram at call me DW J. You can find a link to Dana's



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:43
blog, and any of the yarns and patterns we discussed in the



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:46
show notes.



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:49
Hi, Dana, welcome to the podcast.



DWJ:
00:00:51
Hello, hello.



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:53
So I always start with asking about where your



Mia Hobbs:
00:00:55
story with knitting began.



DWJ:
00:00:58
Um, so I learned it's only been about 11 years I think. I,



DWJ:
00:01:07
I've always been crafty. And but never I've never done anything



DWJ:
00:01:13
really with yarn before I can sew, a big papercraft person, I



DWJ:
00:01:20
paint place for a long time. And, but I didn't know anybody



DWJ:
00:01:26
who knit that or crochet. In fact, actually, I didn't know



DWJ:
00:01:32
someone crochet but she never crochet in front of me. And so I



DWJ:
00:01:34
just never my best friend I find out later on crochet. Like,



DWJ:
00:01:38
what, um, so I started this new job. And I kind of needed I was



DWJ:
00:01:48
at that phase in my life where I hadn't figured out 100% still



DWJ:
00:01:52
what I really wanted to do, I think I was, I'm a late bloomer,



DWJ:
00:01:57
in terms of career, I'm good at lots of things. But there was



DWJ:
00:02:00
nothing that like my husband is an engineer has always known and



DWJ:
00:02:04
wanted to be an engineer and absolutely loves his job, and I



DWJ:
00:02:06
never had that in my life. Until I started teaching. And so I was



DWJ:
00:02:12
like, Well, I'm doing this job. And it's pay is great. hours are



DWJ:
00:02:16
easy, like, I'm learning some new stuff, but I need something



DWJ:
00:02:20
really creative. So I got one of those Groupon deals were like,



DWJ:
00:02:26
discounted to get. And it was for Knitting Lessons in a



DWJ:
00:02:29
knitting shop in DC that doesn't exist anymore. And I said to my



DWJ:
00:02:35
mom, like, I think I'm gonna take Knitting Lessons. And I



DWJ:
00:02:37
always tell the story, because she said to me, you don't need



DWJ:
00:02:41
another craft. You don't need to learn nothing. You don't need to



DWJ:
00:02:43
spend money, on anything. I was like rude. And then, like a week



DWJ:
00:02:50
after I said that, she was like, Can You knit me this hat? You



DWJ:
00:02:53
literally just said to me, like, I assume you ignore me like



DWJ:
00:02:57
always. Okay. So I signed up for lessons.



DWJ:
00:03:03
And it took a little bit for me to kind of get it. But once I



DWJ:
00:03:08
got it, I was hooked. And that was kind of it for me. And I had



DWJ:
00:03:14
a teacher who really like, like, I was an intro knitting class,



DWJ:
00:03:17
but it learned very quickly how to do cables and knitting in the



DWJ:
00:03:21
round. Like, she was kind of really aggressive.



DWJ:
00:03:26
But I think it kind of helped give me a little bit of



DWJ:
00:03:29
confidence, because you just kind of go into like, well, I



DWJ:
00:03:32
guess I can do this, like, I can do anything. Um, but I also took



DWJ:
00:03:37
it upon myself to like, usually once a year, I take class



DWJ:
00:03:42
because of that. So every year for the last year, usually at my



DWJ:
00:03:45
local yarn shop, I sign up for some type of class, to learn



DWJ:
00:03:48
some new skills, some new thing, or if I want, like when I wanted



DWJ:
00:03:52
to get into sweater knitting, I took a intro sweater knitting



DWJ:
00:03:55
class, I can ask all the questions.



DWJ:
00:03:59
And so for because I'm realised I'm nerdy in that way. And then



DWJ:
00:04:02
I love education. I mean, um, and so if that's what knitting



DWJ:
00:04:07
is, for me, it's there's a, like, before you started



DWJ:
00:04:11
recording we were talking about, there's always something that



DWJ:
00:04:13
you can learn. So I don't feel bad when I'm like, Oh, I haven't



DWJ:
00:04:16
learned that yet. Because I'm like, I'll get there. Like I've



DWJ:
00:04:18
been saying forever. I really want to do something with



DWJ:
00:04:20
intarsia it hasn't happened yet, will it? Yeah.



DWJ:
00:04:25
I think it would just be I have to find the right project that



DWJ:
00:04:27
has excited me to say



Mia Hobbs:
00:04:29
it's such a great idea to do a class of something



Mia Hobbs:
00:04:32
new once a year. So is it always knitting related? Or could it be



Mia Hobbs:
00:04:35
something completely random that you've never done before? Like,



Mia Hobbs:
00:04:39
ceramics or



DWJ:
00:04:39
For me it's always been knitting, okay. Like when I took



DWJ:
00:04:44
a class a year, but I am also one of those people who



DWJ:
00:04:48
encourages people to take classes. So like



DWJ:
00:05:00
be away from me for four to six hours. So he was like, learn to



DWJ:
00:05:03
play golf with me. So I signed up into Clemson. So I play golf.



DWJ:
00:05:08
Um, so anytime there's something we're like, Hmm, I love Creole



DWJ:
00:05:14
food. I love to cook. So when we travelled to New Orleans, I take



DWJ:
00:05:19
cooking lessons.



DWJ:
00:05:21
It's the thing of, I don't know how to do it. But there's



DWJ:
00:05:25
usually somebody out there who can teach me Yeah.



Mia Hobbs:
00:05:28
So you love to learn.



DWJ:
00:05:30
I love to learn. So like, lets take advantage of that.



DWJ:
00:05:32
Like if somebody is willing, someone, I'm not the best Sewer.



DWJ:
00:05:39
And I have a follower who is in the area, an older woman who I



DWJ:
00:05:44
see all the time and help her out with stuff. And she's an



DWJ:
00:05:47
amazing Sewer. And I happen to say one day on Instagram, like,



DWJ:
00:05:51
I would love to make a quilted coat. Like, I wish my skills are



DWJ:
00:05:55
up to par. And she was like, I have a long arm quilting machine



DWJ:
00:05:58
at my house. So it's just like, I'm 100% can make that with you.



DWJ:
00:06:03
She's like, I can help you. So I'm all about like, Oh, if



DWJ:
00:06:07
you're willing to teach me. I'm all for it.



Mia Hobbs:
00:06:10
Yeah. Oh, that's great. And was there something



Mia Hobbs:
00:06:13
special about knitting that this? I mean, I don't know if it



Mia Hobbs:
00:06:16
is your main craft now. But was there something particular that



Mia Hobbs:
00:06:21
you think that hooked you in to it?



DWJ:
00:06:24
I think I am a person who I enjoy being alone. And I can do



DWJ:
00:06:35
it my by myself. And I don't, you can literally just be me in



DWJ:
00:06:40
a ball yarn and needles, and I can take it anywhere.



DWJ:
00:06:45
And so for me, I think that was the thing that hasn't made it my



DWJ:
00:06:49
main craft that I always have some knitting with me. Yeah. And



DWJ:
00:06:55
I can whip out a hat or cowl. Or maybe I'm working on a sweater



DWJ:
00:07:01
or you know, like, so it's constantly with me, my students



DWJ:
00:07:05
know when I'm proctoring exams, I walk around the room while I'm



DWJ:
00:07:08
knitting. And it's, it's soothing for me, it calms



DWJ:
00:07:15
nerves, it helps.



DWJ:
00:07:18
I think I've always had anxiety since I was a kid. So I think



DWJ:
00:07:22
for me, it can also be um and a good way to kind of relieve some



DWJ:
00:07:27
of my anxiety.



DWJ:
00:07:30
I talked once about how when my dad died I was knitting



DWJ:
00:07:34
something, when you know, people come to your house and like pay



DWJ:
00:07:39
their respects and all that. And instead of asking the obvious



DWJ:
00:07:42
questions about how are you feeling and loss when you know



DWJ:
00:07:45
you feel horrible. So they asked me about what I was knitting.



DWJ:
00:07:48
And it made it a little bit easier to have conversations and



DWJ:
00:07:53
to be present with people instead of focusing on that



DWJ:
00:07:57
thing that was kind of weighing you down.



Mia Hobbs:
00:08:02
Yeah. And does it matter what you knit? Like, is



Mia Hobbs:
00:08:05
all knitting equal? Or does it make a difference? What it is?



DWJ:
00:08:12
I don't think it matters. I mean, I have an affinity for



DWJ:
00:08:14
sweaters.



DWJ:
00:08:17
Like thats My you know, I mean, I tell you, every knitter has a



DWJ:
00:08:21
thing. I don't get people who knit socks like that. Just, I



DWJ:
00:08:25
have absolutely zero.



DWJ:
00:08:30
But what is



Mia Hobbs:
00:08:31
it about socks? Is it the process or the end result?



DWJ:
00:08:35
I love and here's the thing I love a knit sock? Yeah. And I



DWJ:
00:08:39
have friends who knit me thought and I'm giving it five gifts. I



DWJ:
00:08:43
have absolutely zero desire to knit a sock for myself. I just



DWJ:
00:08:49
don't. And as much as I knit and make. I think it's the tiny



DWJ:
00:08:54
needles and the tiny yarn.



DWJ:
00:08:58
It's not appealing. I would buy a sock machine before I would



DWJ:
00:09:02
knit.



Mia Hobbs:
00:09:02
Okay, that's interesting. So is a bit about



Mia Hobbs:
00:09:05
the process?



DWJ:
00:09:07
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would totally like I've looked at



DWJ:
00:09:11
whenever I see somebody was really gorgeous sock knitting



DWJ:
00:09:14
machines I wanna do that. She's like well, my not gonna knit a



DWJ:
00:09:19
sock. Okay. fortunately, I have a really good girlfriend who has



DWJ:
00:09:23
given me like a couple pairs of socks. Yeah, like, as long as I



DWJ:
00:09:28
have good friends. It's fine.



Mia Hobbs:
00:09:30
dYeah, you don't need to knit them yourself. Yeah, so



Mia Hobbs:
00:09:33
sweaters are your main love. Would you say



DWJ:
00:09:37
sweaters are my main love? Yeah. And I associate you with



DWJ:
00:09:41
some with some bright coloured like combinations of colours



DWJ:
00:09:46
like



DWJ:
00:09:47
it. I think it's that colour is such a mood booster and so like



DWJ:
00:09:56
this is the audio podcast but you can see me in . You can See



DWJ:
00:10:00
my house? And there's a lot of artwork, um, and growing up, my



DWJ:
00:10:07
parents always encouraged that in me, because I always would



DWJ:
00:10:11
draw and paint. And, you know, I remember being a kid and getting



DWJ:
00:10:15
to pick the paint colours and the carpet colours for the wall.



DWJ:
00:10:18
My mom was like, I hate it. And my dad was like, but it's her



DWJ:
00:10:22
room



Mia Hobbs:
00:10:23
so they encourages that form of self expression for



Mia Hobbs:
00:10:27
you.



DWJ:
00:10:28
Yeah. He was always like, but it's her room. It's her one



DWJ:
00:10:33
little space. And it really makes her happy. So let us just



DWJ:
00:10:38
let her have that. Um, and I know, my mom. Never. It was



DWJ:
00:10:43
always just a minor I parent and it's funny because I grew up in



DWJ:
00:10:45
a house. I think my parents have really great taste, but it's



DWJ:
00:10:48
very classic and very, like neutral than me. I'm like, I



DWJ:
00:10:53
want to paint this wall teal. Yeah. And my ceilings are mint



DWJ:
00:10:58
and it's, um, fortunately, my husband kind of just goes with



DWJ:
00:11:03
it like, sure. Dana loves colour. Um, but I think wearing



DWJ:
00:11:10
all black, like, when I wear all black to work people have asked,



DWJ:
00:11:14
Are you okay, whats wrong.



DWJ:
00:11:17
Because it is so rare. I went years not owning a pair of black



DWJ:
00:11:22
pants,



DWJ:
00:11:48
I can't get through this. Um, and I just think it makes you



DWJ:
00:11:52
your wardrobe way happier. I am sometimes envious of like people



DWJ:
00:11:56
who have like, a colour palette and are like, I wear like these



DWJ:
00:12:01
five colours, because my wardrobe is essentially a



DWJ:
00:12:04
rainbow. I'm always like, I'll figure out some combos today.



DWJ:
00:12:08
But I just think it makes me way happier to knit things.



DWJ:
00:12:13
Especially rainbows. Like I love a good rainbow. So to knit



DWJ:
00:12:16
things that have so much kind of joy and levity to them.



Mia Hobbs:
00:12:19
So it sounds like that affects your mood while



Mia Hobbs:
00:12:21
you're making the garment. But also when you then get to wear



Mia Hobbs:
00:12:26
it.



DWJ:
00:12:26
Yeah yarn is beautiful, I think Yeah. Especially indie



DWJ:
00:12:31
dyed skeins are like little works of art. And I got recently



DWJ:
00:12:40
I bought myself a sweater quantity for Christmas of the La



DWJ:
00:12:43
Bien Aimee confetti yarn that



Mia Hobbs:
00:12:45
yeah.



DWJ:
00:12:45
Whoa, a little bit. Yeah. And I, I asked people for like



DWJ:
00:12:52
suggestions for patterns and stuff online. I know when I



DWJ:
00:12:55
think about it in the day, like, I just want something that's



DWJ:
00:12:58
gonna showcase how beautiful that yarn is. And and that you



DWJ:
00:13:02
can see all the little flecks and I don't want that to get



DWJ:
00:13:04
lost.



Mia Hobbs:
00:13:05
Yeah. Did you decide on a pattern?



DWJ:
00:13:09
I'm not 100% I'm also like, I have so much yarn and so many



DWJ:
00:13:13
patterns and projects that I'm considering or thinking about



DWJ:
00:13:17
and my hand is a little academic life in all my typing is not



DWJ:
00:13:22
helping



Mia Hobbs:
00:13:22
Oh, okay.



DWJ:
00:13:24
So I'm trying to get my hand a little bit of rest, as



DWJ:
00:13:26
I'm like halfway through a sweater from my husband. I just



DWJ:
00:13:31
want to make this the body on this sweater but my hand like no



DWJ:
00:13:34
mam, we're not doing it



Mia Hobbs:
00:13:36
That must be quite difficult, then if you can't



Mia Hobbs:
00:13:39
knit as much as you'd like to.



DWJ:
00:13:41
I think there's well this year I have knit the least in



DWJ:
00:13:45
that and learn and a lot of it was I've been I've been ill. And



DWJ:
00:13:51
then because I'd had illness. And I had I had multiple



DWJ:
00:13:56
pulmonary embolisms, um, and because of that, I, I have



DWJ:
00:14:02
insane fatigue sometimes. And so I literally will get through the



DWJ:
00:14:06
day. And it's like, I'm just glad that I made it home and I'm



DWJ:
00:14:10
still standing. And then I tell my husband like I'm just a



DWJ:
00:14:13
potato on the couch like I can't do anything because I haven't



DWJ:
00:14:17
knit as much. I had a bit of a brief moment in November where I



DWJ:
00:14:21
felt super like knitting energised. And then once



DWJ:
00:14:26
Thanksgiving hit. And I had multiple papers. And then I just



DWJ:
00:14:30
finished comps so much typing and I know every year all the



DWJ:
00:14:34
typing affects my joints and all that so I have to be mindful of



DWJ:
00:14:40
that because I tell people like it isn't necessarily about being



DWJ:
00:14:43
an academic writing. I want to be able to knit.



Mia Hobbs:
00:14:45
Yeah, yeah, does it. I mean, I feel like I would find



Mia Hobbs:
00:14:50
it difficult to not be able to do the, the thing that like you



Mia Hobbs:
00:14:56
said, kind of gives me joy and makes me feel calmer. If I'm



Mia Hobbs:
00:14:59
stressed Maybe you're more used to managing that.



DWJ:
00:15:04
Um, I'll say that. So this year has changed my perspective



DWJ:
00:15:10
on a lot of things. I mean, I'm fairly young, I'm 43. And you



DWJ:
00:15:16
don't expect to have a major life event at 43.



Mia Hobbs:
00:15:20
mmmm



DWJ:
00:15:22
And, I mean, I was essentially told, what I came in



DWJ:
00:15:25
with is what most people die from. When you find out we hear



DWJ:
00:15:28
people die from pulmonary embolism, and disability because



DWJ:
00:15:31
of the level of embolisms, that I had had a massive one,



DWJ:
00:15:36
restricting blood flow right out of my heart, so my body wasn't



DWJ:
00:15:40
getting enough oxygen. And then my lungs were riddled with clots



DWJ:
00:15:44
like, riddled. So for me to have made it as far as I had before



DWJ:
00:15:50
being hospitalised was kind of miraculous. And so I'd say about



DWJ:
00:15:56
two weeks before I went to hospital,



DWJ:
00:15:59
I'd stopped knitting. And I also stopped talking as much which is



DWJ:
00:16:05
hard to do when you're a professor but I talked only when



DWJ:
00:16:09
I had to, and found ways to really engage students in my



DWJ:
00:16:14
classroom to do the talking so that I wouldn't have to. And so



DWJ:
00:16:18
I kind of switched over a little bit and had started working in



DWJ:
00:16:21
polymer clay.



DWJ:
00:16:23
And which is a medium that I worked on before. But I had seen



DWJ:
00:16:27
some fun things on Instagram, I wanted to make like jewellery



DWJ:
00:16:29
and things like that. So I kind of switched over, because I



DWJ:
00:16:32
realised, now I did not have enough oxygen in my body. So I



DWJ:
00:16:36
did not have the brainpower to read a knitting pattern.



DWJ:
00:16:41
Which I couldn't, I didn't know that at the time. Um, and



DWJ:
00:16:45
Polymer Clay don't follow patterns, or you don't, I could



DWJ:
00:16:48
just sit down at the table and make whatever. And so when you



DWJ:
00:16:54
realise after going through all that, like when I was in



DWJ:
00:16:57
hospital, I legit was just trying to survive, and, and



DWJ:
00:17:02
you're just kind of there. And, you know, people are like, Oh,



DWJ:
00:17:06
I'm terrified of needles, and I hate all that. You, when you



DWJ:
00:17:10
have someone slice into your neck artery while you're awake,



DWJ:
00:17:14
anything is possible.



DWJ:
00:17:17
And you stop being afraid of certain things. And so I had to



DWJ:
00:17:22
I had to come to the realisation when I came out of hospital, how



DWJ:
00:17:27
sick I was, and how long the recovery I had had. So they give



DWJ:
00:17:32
you about a year before you are expected to feel normal. And I



DWJ:
00:17:38
spent three months of the summer, essentially waiting for



DWJ:
00:17:42
my heart to go back to normal, which meant a lot of rest. A lot



DWJ:
00:17:48
of naps. And so my husband I think was the person who noted



DWJ:
00:17:52
like, a couple weeks out of the hospital, I finally picked



DWJ:
00:17:56
Polymer clear. And so I saw him like grinning, and I'm like what



DWJ:
00:18:00
he goes, you're just being creative. And I'm happy about



DWJ:
00:18:02
that. Like, I haven't seen this in weeks. he's like, so this is



DWJ:
00:18:06
positive. And I would look at my knitting and I would want to do



DWJ:
00:18:11
it.



DWJ:
00:18:29
Your blood oxygen levels aren't still normal. So clearly, you're



DWJ:
00:18:35
not. And like if people were like, how are you in grad school



DWJ:
00:18:38
and teaching? And I was like, Well, things, I stopped doing



DWJ:
00:18:41
certain things because I couldn't, I wasn't functioning.



DWJ:
00:18:44
So I think this year, I realised like, I have to have patience



DWJ:
00:18:48
with myself. Yeah, i'm a fairly patient person. But I'm also



DWJ:
00:18:52
very efficient and like I do things for myself. So learning



DWJ:
00:18:55
to be more patient with myself has been something that I've



DWJ:
00:18:58
dealt with this year. And now I'm getting frustrated when I



DWJ:
00:19:01
can't do the things I want to do, because there's so many



DWJ:
00:19:04
things that I can do now that I couldn't do six months ago.



Mia Hobbs:
00:19:07
Yeah. So you're really focusing on the process



Mia Hobbs:
00:19:10
of recovery and trying to give yourself time for that.



DWJ:
00:19:13
And sometimes you have to remind yourself of that, like,



DWJ:
00:19:15
Yeah, we had to travel and do things and I was exhausted. But



DWJ:
00:19:19
I was like, but you know what, two months ago, I would not have



DWJ:
00:19:23
been able to walk up that hill.



Mia Hobbs:
00:19:24
Hmm.



DWJ:
00:19:25
And so let's be happy that I walked up that hill today.



DWJ:
00:19:29
And, and me and my husband is great at reminding me of those



DWJ:
00:19:33
little things and being like, Oh, you've done so much better



DWJ:
00:19:36
like, because I think he knows me so intimately and has seen me



DWJ:
00:19:41
at the absolute lowest in the hospital. So he knows like, this



DWJ:
00:19:45
is progress. So eventually, like I was hospitalised early May. I



DWJ:
00:19:50
think I started knitting again. About six weeks out so mid June



DWJ:
00:19:58
into July. So that was, that was a while.



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:02
Yeah.



DWJ:
00:20:24
I was like, okay, yeah, do it. And then I will go. Let me



DWJ:
00:20:27
read the instructions. Let me just read it through. And now



DWJ:
00:20:31
still doesn't make sense yet. So me give myself time. So it's



DWJ:
00:20:35
about it's been about patience for me.



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:37
Yeah. And I guess one of the things that when we talk



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:43
about therapeutic knitting one of the I think the reasons we



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:46
think knitting is helpful is because you can break it down



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:49
into quite small steps. And it kind of makes it more



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:53
accessible, I think, in some ways. So for example, if



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:56
someone's feeling really low, or like you, when you were



Mia Hobbs:
00:20:58
struggling to get back in, that you could do a teeny tiny



Mia Hobbs:
00:21:01
amount, I suppose. Unlike other, it might be hard to start, I



Mia Hobbs:
00:21:05
don't know much about painting, but to start painting and only



Mia Hobbs:
00:21:08
paint a tiny piece of a canvas or something. Whereas knitting,



Mia Hobbs:
00:21:12
like if you're doing a couple of stitches, or like winding a ball



Mia Hobbs:
00:21:15
of yarn, you are still making progress towards the end thing,



Mia Hobbs:
00:21:18
even if it's in a very small increment of what you can manage



Mia Hobbs:
00:21:21
in a given day, I suppose.



DWJ:
00:21:23
Yeah, I mean, even for me, when I wasn't on pre embolisms.



DWJ:
00:21:31
Even if I could just do a row at night, I will be like, I feel



DWJ:
00:21:36
accomplished. Like I got at least I got in a couple stitches



DWJ:
00:21:40
tonight. Before I went to bed, like it was a long day, I just



DWJ:
00:21:43
want to let something go. Let me just get a couple rows in and



DWJ:
00:21:45
then I'll feel a little bit better. Yeah. So I do think that



DWJ:
00:21:48
is part of the beauty of it is that you kind of constantly



DWJ:
00:21:51
working on this thing. And to me, I think it's all still like,



DWJ:
00:21:55
it's all a little bit of being an artist and a work of art. I



DWJ:
00:22:00
definitely think of knitting is an art form. And



Mia Hobbs:
00:22:02
I was gonna ask you about that as somebody who has



Mia Hobbs:
00:22:05
an art kind of background about whether knitting is an art form



Mia Hobbs:
00:22:09
for you, because I never quite know for myself?



DWJ:
00:22:12
No, I think it is I think we all you and I can pick the



DWJ:
00:22:16
exact same pattern.



Mia Hobbs:
00:22:17
Yeah.



DWJ:
00:22:18
And interpret in so many different ways. From the yarn



DWJ:
00:22:21
choices to maybe you make your sweater with long sleeves, and



DWJ:
00:22:25
I'm going to go short, maybe you decided you want to in some



DWJ:
00:22:28
waist shaping, or some bust darts. Or I'm like now I want to



DWJ:
00:22:32
make it oversized, or you're like I want this to be really



DWJ:
00:22:35
fitted. I think



DWJ:
00:22:37
it is such an individual thing. And we each get to put our own



DWJ:
00:22:43
spin on it. Like I love I love because people always like oh,



DWJ:
00:22:46
do you should design patterns? No, I love other people writing



DWJ:
00:22:50
patterns and their designs and the vision in the ideas that



DWJ:
00:22:53
they have. And then how I get to interpret that from



Mia Hobbs:
00:22:56
Yeah. And without doing the maths.



DWJ:
00:23:01
Without doing all that I don't want to do grading one of



DWJ:
00:23:03
my girlfriends to do that. And I'm like no, and I'm and we made



DWJ:
00:23:06
her make us design a pattern for us for Rhinebeck with you. Like



DWJ:
00:23:12
make us a sweater. Thank you. And she did all the work.



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:15
Yeah, the closest I've ever got was actually this



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:19
sweater that I'm wearing now, which is a like, you know, Tin



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:22
Can knits Strange Brew.



DWJ:
00:23:24
Oh, yeah,



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:25
but I just added these kind of like snowflakes to



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:28
make it a bit more, you know,



DWJ:
00:23:30
I like it though



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:30
Christmassy, thank you. But there was quite a lot



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:33
of maths involved. And that was a sense of achievement. I got a



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:36
bit different than the way I normally get a sense of



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:39
achievement from knitting. But that was probably enough as it



Mia Hobbs:
00:23:42
happened. For me.



DWJ:
00:23:43
I have some books and some formulas. So sometimes I will. I



DWJ:
00:23:46
love saddle, shoulders. Okay. Yeah. Not a bunch of people make



DWJ:
00:23:51
patterns like that. So I will often do that for myself. And



DWJ:
00:23:57
like I have kind of a standard pattern and again, and so people



DWJ:
00:24:00
are like, oh, you should and I'm like I'm going off of bits and



DWJ:
00:24:04
pieces from a book and slicing things together. Yeah. I'm not



DWJ:
00:24:08
designing this. Like I can make anything from my bust size.



DWJ:
00:24:13
Yeah. You want to ask me to make it for somebody else? No, but



DWJ:
00:24:17
it's my bust size. I got you.



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:19
Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. I'm interested in the



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:24
thing you said about patience. Because I think I certainly I



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:27
don't know whether you do people, lots of people say



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:29
you're you're much more patient than I am. I couldn't wouldn't



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:32
ever have the patience for knitting, and associate patience



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:35
with knitting. And it sounds like you've felt like you've had



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:37
to use a lot of patience in your recovery. I wonder whether you



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:41
feel like patience is something knitters have, did you get more



Mia Hobbs:
00:24:45
patient through knitting or is that just something people say?



DWJ:
00:24:48
Something people say because I think if you want



DWJ:
00:24:51
something you will be patient for it. A lot of things that you



DWJ:
00:24:56
want or need don't aren't instantaneous. I also think and



DWJ:
00:24:59
because I deal with students that we're in a culture right



DWJ:
00:25:03
now, instant gratification and immediacy, you know, students



DWJ:
00:25:07
are always asking like, Well, how did you all do such as that



DWJ:
00:25:10
for you and your undergrad? I'm like, well, first of all, we



DWJ:
00:25:12
didn't have Ubers. I couldn't call a con man, like, I had to



DWJ:
00:25:15
make a plan. We had to figure these things out. We didn't all



DWJ:
00:25:19
have cell phones. Um, so I think I am patient in that respect.



DWJ:
00:25:25
I've always kind of been a patient person when it comes to



DWJ:
00:25:27
things that I want. And so I think when people see other



DWJ:
00:25:33
knitters and are, like, oh, I can never do it. I think people



DWJ:
00:25:36
are just intimidated. It seems like it's this really complex



DWJ:
00:25:40
thing, because I remember seeing it for the first time, like, how



DWJ:
00:25:43
long do people get it to do that, and it become this thing,



DWJ:
00:25:47
but, um, I mean, it just takes a little bit of practice. And then



DWJ:
00:25:52
I'll have to tell my students that do. I wasn't a sweater



DWJ:
00:25:55
knitter on day one, everybody makes a crappy potholder or a



DWJ:
00:25:59
scarf with really big holes in it. Yeah. And you have to accept



DWJ:
00:26:05
that, um, and especially like, I'm, I am a person that's very



DWJ:
00:26:09
much a perfectionist. I can be a little bit anal about things.



DWJ:
00:26:15
And so I had to let that go in knitting,



Mia Hobbs:
00:26:18
okay.



DWJ:
00:26:20
And that that took a little bit for me, but to realise like,



DWJ:
00:26:26
the perfection is in the practice. And then I'm better



DWJ:
00:26:30
now. Because I know how I have more confidence, I can fix a



DWJ:
00:26:34
dropped stitch, I can see my mistakes and frog back. And I



DWJ:
00:26:40
think the beauty in it is that if I really really mess it up, I



DWJ:
00:26:44
just unravel it. Yeah. And sometimes I think it's people



DWJ:
00:26:49
like, it's just such a waste of time. But it isn't, if you learn



DWJ:
00:26:52
from it and like, again, I go back to like, I like learning.



DWJ:
00:26:57
Yeah. And so as long as I'm learning and getting something



DWJ:
00:27:02
out of it, then there's joy to be had at that. And I think we



DWJ:
00:27:06
missed that. Sometimes I have a class that I teach students, and



DWJ:
00:27:11
I'm like, the goal is for you to make mistakes, and learn from



DWJ:
00:27:15
the mistake that you make. Because it's the problem solving



DWJ:
00:27:19
class so I'm, like, you all are so afraid that you're gonna give



DWJ:
00:27:23
me the wrong answer that you just don't do it. Like you won't



DWJ:
00:27:27
show me the work you want. And the goal is, I want to see



DWJ:
00:27:31
multiple tries, I want to see how you attempted to do it the



DWJ:
00:27:35
first time to then figure out where you went wrong. And if you



DWJ:
00:27:39
don't make the mistake, I can't help you like I can't. And so I



DWJ:
00:27:45
often have to, and I had a really good semester with them



DWJ:
00:27:47
this year, because I really kept pressing like, no, no, I want to



DWJ:
00:27:50
see the mistakes. Like I want to see the mistakes, I need to see



DWJ:
00:27:54
all the work. But I think that's the really hard part for people



DWJ:
00:27:59
that to kind of get to them mistakes or how we learn like



DWJ:
00:28:02
it's okay, you don't have to be perfect. And because we're in



DWJ:
00:28:06
such a social media perfection, ultra filtered world. Um, it



DWJ:
00:28:13
makes it hard for people to understand or process that and



DWJ:
00:28:16
I'm like, that's how you grow. It's ok.



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:20
And I think certainly, that's something that



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:21
knitting has helped me with. And I think in the therapeutic



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:24
knitting groups I've been running we have been focusing on



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:28
like, the worst thing that can happen, but you still got unless



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:31
you get the scissors out, you still got what you started with,



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:34
which is a ball of yarn and the needles. And, and that is a kind



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:38
of, in a way, a place for making safe mistakes. Like because how



Mia Hobbs:
00:28:42
wrong can it possibly go with knitting?



DWJ:
00:28:45
My husband is really good. Because he knows me and I'm



DWJ:
00:28:49
anxious and I will be like, when we first got a dog, and like



DWJ:
00:28:54
we'd be late or stuck in traffic, and he'll be like,



DWJ:
00:28:57
Okay, what is what's the worst thing that can happen? Now, like



DWJ:
00:29:02
what should poop in the house? And he goes, Okay, so how do we



DWJ:
00:29:07
how do you fix them? Like, why me? I would just clean it up



DWJ:
00:29:09
like that. Okay, so let that go. And understand that. If we're



DWJ:
00:29:15
late, she might have accident, but we have the tools and means



DWJ:
00:29:19
to clean it up. Yeah, and she'll still be fine. Like, she's not



DWJ:
00:29:23
gonna starve to death. We're 30 minutes late coming home. Um,



DWJ:
00:29:27
he's like, she'll probably be even more excited when you walk



DWJ:
00:29:30
in the door. So he, he is very good at refocusing me and saying



DWJ:
00:29:36
like, Okay, tell me the worst thing that can happen. And how



DWJ:
00:29:41
then, do you have how do you overcome that hurdle once you



DWJ:
00:29:45
get there, which is one of the things I did do a lot with, like



DWJ:
00:29:48
before school started after having kind of been out of the



DWJ:
00:29:52
game for three months. He was like, tell me all the things



DWJ:
00:29:55
that you're afraid of. And then let's figure out how we resolve



DWJ:
00:30:00
Those fears. Um, and that was a great exercise for him to sit



DWJ:
00:30:05
down and be like, well, these are the things that make me



DWJ:
00:30:07
nervous. Okay. Think about solutions and how we make it



DWJ:
00:30:11
better. Or maybe only the practice if he things before



DWJ:
00:30:14
school starts. So you feel more comfortable like that. And so I



DWJ:
00:30:17
think that's how I feel to a knitting is that. Alright, this



DWJ:
00:30:21
cable looks insane. And I'm a little nervous. Let me practice.



DWJ:
00:30:26
Yeah, let me let me try this out. You know, that's what I



DWJ:
00:30:29
tell people too with swatches like, that's why swatches are



DWJ:
00:30:32
helpful. Yeah, give you a chance to see how something's gonna



DWJ:
00:30:36
react or respond. And then you can figure out if thats the



DWJ:
00:30:39
right needle, if that's the right technique, or maybe it's



DWJ:
00:30:42
not the project for you at that time.



Mia Hobbs:
00:30:44
Yeah. And do you have more than one thing on the go at



Mia Hobbs:
00:30:47
once if you got projects for different?



DWJ:
00:30:48
Always!



Mia Hobbs:
00:30:50
And are they different, for different I don't



Mia Hobbs:
00:30:52
know, moods or different situations in your life where



Mia Hobbs:
00:30:55
you need a different type of project.



DWJ:
00:30:57
I'm usually I have multiple sweaters going on at once.



DWJ:
00:31:04
Because they require different things at different times. So I



DWJ:
00:31:08
like a sweater will have like, a lot of stockinette in the body



DWJ:
00:31:12
where I don't have to really look that great for just some



DWJ:
00:31:15
mindless knitting. Whereas if I'm just starting a sweater,



DWJ:
00:31:19
maybe I have to pay a little bit more attention to my increases,



DWJ:
00:31:23
I'm building out the yoke. Two colour brioche when I'm really



DWJ:
00:31:29
stressed, because it makes me take my mind off of whatever it



DWJ:
00:31:33
is that I was thinking about and makes me focus on the project at



DWJ:
00:31:36
hand.



Mia Hobbs:
00:31:38
So you'll gravitate towards something more



Mia Hobbs:
00:31:40
complicated if you're really stressed, and you need to kind



Mia Hobbs:
00:31:42
of Yeah, same



DWJ:
00:31:46
yeah, it helps me recenter and say like, I need to not



DWJ:
00:31:53
think about this for 30 minutes. Let me pick this up. Because



DWJ:
00:31:56
then I'm gonna have to really look at this because I don't



DWJ:
00:31:58
want to mess this up. Yeah.



Mia Hobbs:
00:32:00
Yeah. It's kind of a bit of an escape from stress.



DWJ:
00:32:04
Yeah, and then just have stuff like I get. I get in the



DWJ:
00:32:09
mood. I'm like, I just really wanted to knit a colourwork



DWJ:
00:32:11
sweater. Yeah. Or I just really want to use the yarn. Um, and



DWJ:
00:32:18
I've had moments where like, yarn will arrive and I'm like,



DWJ:
00:32:21
well, casting on something else immediately. Um, I actually got



DWJ:
00:32:25
some, some boucle yarn yesterday. And I'm like, Well,



DWJ:
00:32:28
I'm gonna make a hat.it's cold,



Mia Hobbs:
00:32:30
yeah. Yeah. I always ask about a significant knitting



Mia Hobbs:
00:32:37
project.



DWJ:
00:32:39
Um, I always love. I always love for my mom



Mia Hobbs:
00:32:44
for your mom.



DWJ:
00:32:46
She always, always always gets excited. No, it can be a



DWJ:
00:32:52
wrap can be a sweater, it doesn't matter.



Mia Hobbs:
00:32:56
She's not a knitter.



DWJ:
00:32:57
No, no, no one else in my family is, um, so anytime I make



DWJ:
00:33:03
her something, there is this level of joy and excitement from



DWJ:
00:33:09
my mother that is so genuine and so. So pure. And it's that it's



DWJ:
00:33:17
that thing where you're like, This is why you make something



DWJ:
00:33:19
for other people because they genuinely like get it and love



DWJ:
00:33:22
it. And she wants to tell everyone that her daughter made



DWJ:
00:33:27
it for her. So I made her a sweater called a. simmetrie that



DWJ:
00:33:32
I love. That was a little bit complex for me. And she wore it



DWJ:
00:33:38
the first time she had to travel out of town after my dad passed



DWJ:
00:33:41
away. And a woman she was sitting eating in a hotel bar by



DWJ:
00:33:46
herself. And a woman came up to her and asked her if she had



DWJ:
00:33:50
knit that sweater. And she said no but my daughter did. And



DWJ:
00:33:55
turns out the woman was like a knitting instructor and Blah



DWJ:
00:33:57
blah and she ended up sitting down having lunch with my mom



DWJ:
00:34:00
and my mom made a friend. And it was just one of those things



DWJ:
00:34:04
where it's like something that you knit that brings my mom



DWJ:
00:34:07
comfort and excitement but then also found find a way to like,



DWJ:
00:34:12
connect her to other people. Um, she's also notorious for talking



DWJ:
00:34:17
to people in public when she sees other people knitting like,



DWJ:
00:34:20
well my daughter knits and then I'll get like Instagram message



DWJ:
00:34:24
like I met your mom today. Um, and so that that 100% Makes me



DWJ:
00:34:33
feel incredibly special and that I understand that she



DWJ:
00:34:37
appreciates what I make her so she's probably my favourite



DWJ:
00:34:43
person to knit for and she's hilarious because like I'll wear



DWJ:
00:34:46
a sweater I was FaceTiming her the other day. And I had on a



DWJ:
00:34:50
new sweater that I made for myself. And like we're in the



DWJ:
00:34:52
middle of talking about something else and she goes. And



DWJ:
00:34:54
that sweater you're wearing is real cute.



Mia Hobbs:
00:34:57
is that her way of placing an order



DWJ:
00:35:00
That was her hint so I too would like that sweater w'm



DWJ:
00:35:03
like, What do I have? in my stash As can I make this exact



DWJ:
00:35:07
sweater But yeah, so anything for my mom, I think is my actual



DWJ:
00:35:12
favourite thing. And then I have a former grad student who's



DWJ:
00:35:16
like a little brother to me, who, whenever he helps me out,



DWJ:
00:35:20
he always askes me for this very specific hat, asked for in a



DWJ:
00:35:25
different colour. Hmm. Um, and apparently, like, everybody



DWJ:
00:35:29
always tries to take this hat. Everybody loves his hat. His dad



DWJ:
00:35:33
was like, I mean, I've never heard that said like, can she



DWJ:
00:35:37
make me one of these? Like, no, you don't know her. And she has,



DWJ:
00:35:42
like, you have no relationship like, this is my special thing.



DWJ:
00:35:46
But it's this special moment. I think any knit is special, you



DWJ:
00:35:50
give it away, and then you see it in use. Like, I've seen him



DWJ:
00:35:55
post pictures, and it's winter time he forever has on one of



DWJ:
00:35:59
the hats. And for that, that always makes me happy to hear



DWJ:
00:36:03
that, like, you see a baby wearing something made, or a



DWJ:
00:36:07
blanket that you made like that, to know that it's being used in



DWJ:
00:36:11
love that makes me happy



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:13
yeah, that actually happened to me. Last weekend, I



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:16
met up with my best friend who lives a few hours away. And she



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:21
was wearing the do you know, the scout shawl. And so I had knit



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:26
that when my dog was quite a small puppy and had like, so



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:29
it's intarsia and colour works that have like six balls of yarn



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:33
at once and I made it for my best friend's 40th. And we met



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:37
up in a different town and she was wearing it with this like



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:41
new yellow coat that just matched the which since she said



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:44
she hadn't bought especially because it matched the scarf,



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:46
but it looked great. And I happened to be wearing a



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:49
cardigan in the same yellow yarn that I'd used in her shawl. We



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:53
were like, looked like we were on a weird hen do or something



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:56
but it was. But it was so special to see her wearing that



Mia Hobbs:
00:36:59
I'd made her for her 40th which was in July. She's not a knitter



Mia Hobbs:
00:37:02
so, it was a slightly random gift. You know, you never quite,



Mia Hobbs:
00:37:06
I'm never quite sure if somebody who's not a knitter is gonna



Mia Hobbs:
00:37:10
appreciate you know, appreciate it.



DWJ:
00:37:12
I know. Yeah, I don't knit for everybody. And sometimes



DWJ:
00:37:15
I've been like pressured and i'm, like, just make it and then



DWJ:
00:37:17
And I've probably got to be what you feel like making at that



DWJ:
00:37:20
I'm like, I didn't need to make this person this because I will



DWJ:
00:37:24
never ever see evidence of this thing ever again. Um, well, my



DWJ:
00:37:28
knitting circle is incredibly small. And, and I do that so



DWJ:
00:37:32
that I can make whatever I want whenever I want. I don't



DWJ:
00:37:36
necessarily want people to put demands on what I choose to create.



DWJ:
00:37:45
particular time? Like what floats your boat just then.



DWJ:
00:37:49
Yeah, like sometimes I'm like, I like I have a friend who I know



DWJ:
00:37:53
really wants a sweater from me. And I know what sweater I want



DWJ:
00:37:56
to make him. But I have no interest in making this sweater



DWJ:
00:37:59
right now. Yeah, like January will hit and and i'll be like



DWJ:
00:38:02
now's the time lets make this sweater? Yeah. But um, and



DWJ:
00:38:07
that's I tell people you might get a sweater from me in July.



DWJ:
00:38:11
You might get a sweater from me in February. Like it just



DWJ:
00:38:15
depends on what the mood is and how I feel at the time.



Mia Hobbs:
00:38:18
Yeah, and it's difficult to know how long these



Mia Hobbs:
00:38:20
things take. Also, people are saying how long does it take to



Mia Hobbs:
00:38:22
knit a sweater? I don't know.



DWJ:
00:38:25
I'm like It depends. Like especially now um, I was



DWJ:
00:38:30
supposed to knit. I'm usually a fast knitter but I'm not this



DWJ:
00:38:35
year. And I'm my best friend comes with me to all yarn



DWJ:
00:38:39
related events. And she was coming to Rhinebeck and so I



DWJ:
00:38:41
knit her Rhinebeck sweater before. And I didn't have it in



DWJ:
00:38:46
me. I barely got through making mine in time for Rhinebeck but



DWJ:
00:38:50
my girlfriends in my little knitting group. Were like we'll



DWJ:
00:38:55
knit it for her because they love her too. And so I think for



DWJ:
00:38:59
me, that has also been like, one of the best things this year is



DWJ:
00:39:02
that I have a really good small circle of girlfriends who, when



DWJ:
00:39:06
I couldn't knit did stuff for me. And when I haven't had the



DWJ:
00:39:11
energy or the enthusiasm, they be like that, don't worry, we'll



DWJ:
00:39:15
handle it. Um, and so like they knit it, but then I ended up her



DWJ:
00:39:19
sleeves need to be a little bit longer. So I frogged back her



DWJ:
00:39:22
cuffs and made it a little bit longer for her so that there was



DWJ:
00:39:26
still a little bit of me in there. Yeah. But yeah, I just I



DWJ:
00:39:31
you know, I tell people like you get one when I feel like it



DWJ:
00:39:34
there have been some sweaters where I've loved the process.



DWJ:
00:39:37
And so I'll just spend a little bit of time and and put it away.



DWJ:
00:39:41
And so, I've had a sweater that took me like three months where



DWJ:
00:39:45
I'm like, Yeah, I'm probably gonna sat down and done this a



DWJ:
00:39:47
couple weeks, but I enjoyed it. So I would savour it and be



DWJ:
00:39:51
like, I'll come back to this. Like, I'll pick this back up



DWJ:
00:39:54
later.



Mia Hobbs:
00:39:56
Yeah, so it's a lot about the process for you than



Mia Hobbs:
00:39:59
the end result Oh, And you've mentioned the idea of knitting,



Mia Hobbs:
00:40:03
making you feel calmer, and you've mentioned the kind of joy



Mia Hobbs:
00:40:07
and the colour, are there any other ways you think knitting



Mia Hobbs:
00:40:10
kind of helps you in terms of your well being, or



DWJ:
00:40:15
I think I have met amazing people. Um, and so like I, you



DWJ:
00:40:22
know, I'd said before and 2020, when the pandemic started, if I



DWJ:
00:40:26
didn't have my, the group of five of us, I didn't have those



DWJ:
00:40:31
four women in my life, I don't know how I would have made it



DWJ:
00:40:34
through 2020. And I really don't know how I would have made it



DWJ:
00:40:37
through this year after getting sick and, and what connects us



DWJ:
00:40:43
is yarn. And it, you know, we incurred Look, we all bought



DWJ:
00:40:48
yarn, advent calendars this year. So that we could all open.



DWJ:
00:40:53
And so like, when I log off with you, I'm sure my text messages



DWJ:
00:40:57
will be full of pictures of what was in each person advent,



DWJ:
00:41:01
because we all got different ones,



Mia Hobbs:
00:41:02
you know, go get different ones, okay.



DWJ:
00:41:03
And so that we talked about and ooh and ahh over what each



DWJ:
00:41:07
person got, and, you know, we encourage our own purchases and



DWJ:
00:41:13
get excited and ooh and ahh over what each other's making and do



DWJ:
00:41:19
knit alongs amongst ourselves. So I think for me, knitting has



DWJ:
00:41:24
also brought amazing relationships into my life. And



DWJ:
00:41:27
even at my old job, like, I have a friend who I worked with, and



DWJ:
00:41:31
we had the same birthday, but years apart. And it turns out,



DWJ:
00:41:36
she was in there too. And so that was a way we kind of bonded



DWJ:
00:41:38
at work. Like she was a person where I probably we she and I,



DWJ:
00:41:43
we didn't really have anything in common. And then when



DWJ:
00:41:45
someone's like, oh, you know, this person knits and so does



DWJ:
00:41:47
Dana. And then we started talking and then created, had a



DWJ:
00:41:52
friendship, like and would bring yarn and pass stuff back and



DWJ:
00:41:55
forth at work. So I think knitting has also brought me



DWJ:
00:41:59
some amazing people into my life which i am thankful for.



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:06
That's amazing. Has knitting ever been unhelpful? Do



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:09
you think?



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:13
No, um, I mean, you get tired of people being like, make me this.



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:19
Yeah, they don't understand what all goes into it. You know, when



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:27
my dad was sick, my dad had cancer. And I was at the



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:33
hospital a lot. I knit a lot at the hospital. And the nurses



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:37
would come and talk to me about stuff or bring their projects



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:40
and show me things that they were working on. Now I think it



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:46
I think it is only brought good things into my life, and good



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:51
things and memories and things.



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:54
And I was interested you said when you're talking about your



Mia Hobbs:
00:42:56
mum wearing a sweater, that when she went out for the first time



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:01
after your dad had died, and it was like her wearing, I don't



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:05
know, superpower or like an added confidence when she wore



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:08
that sweater. I don't know whether you feel that



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:11
relationship with your sweaters that you or other garments that



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:14
you make when you wear them.



DWJ:
00:43:17
What I remember, like the first time I did this sweater,



DWJ:
00:43:20
and it was it was done in like a Hemp yarn so I could wear it in



DWJ:
00:43:23
the summer because I did it in like May. Yeah, the very first



DWJ:
00:43:26
time I was like, please don't let this whole for some reason.



DWJ:
00:43:29
I was like, please don't let this whole thing like unravel.



DWJ:
00:43:33
And just be naked at work.



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:35
Did it stay together?



DWJ:
00:43:36
It stayed together?I don't know why I thought but like, in



DWJ:
00:43:40
my head. I was like, this whole thing might just collapse. I



DWJ:
00:43:44
don't know what's gonna happen. Um, but I do feel better. When I



DWJ:
00:43:48
wear my own stuff. And then people like, Oh, what did you



DWJ:
00:43:51
make? And I'm like, yeah, yes, I did. Um,



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:55
I always say I feel 20% happier when I'm wearing



Mia Hobbs:
00:43:57
something I made. And I used to also I don't know, i This



Mia Hobbs:
00:44:01
probably has happened to you as well. But once you're an



Mia Hobbs:
00:44:03
established, you know, have a reputation as a knitter, you



Mia Hobbs:
00:44:06
know, in your place of work or whatever. Then whatever you



Mia Hobbs:
00:44:10
wear, people say, oh, did you knit that? And then it's so



Mia Hobbs:
00:44:12
annoying. If you wear something that you bought in a shop and



Mia Hobbs:
00:44:16
you're like, No, I totally could have made this it would be so



Mia Hobbs:
00:44:18
easy. But I didn't



DWJ:
00:44:20
I haven't bought a sweater. I bought Actually no, I bought a



DWJ:
00:44:24
sweater for the first time in the store the other day. And I



DWJ:
00:44:29
told my husband the only reason I bought it because it's in some



DWJ:
00:44:31
neutral colours that I would not. I wouldn't find joy in



DWJ:
00:44:35
knitting this for myself. So I'm just going to buy this because I



DWJ:
00:44:37
know I would be like, No, I'm not knitting this and I would



DWJ:
00:44:40
change it but I needed like a neutral to go with something



DWJ:
00:44:44
else. But I my students get the most excited about it. And I had



DWJ:
00:44:48
a student every day would come in. I will walk in and he's like



DWJ:
00:44:53
professor. Did you make it and I say Nate? I tell you every week



DWJ:
00:44:57
Yep. Yes, I made that like he was. So it is especially the



DWJ:
00:45:04
young man he was so like, amazed that I could make clothes.



DWJ:
00:45:12
Because they see me knitting. And so my students probably



DWJ:
00:45:15
asked me the most like, thing and you'll see the look on their



DWJ:
00:45:19
face might come in and like what's going on with them? Like,



DWJ:
00:45:23
did you make that one I'm Like, yeah, I made this one. Yeah. all



DWJ:
00:45:27
my sweaters I make all of them.



Mia Hobbs:
00:45:29
I have one from when the dog was in the terrible like



Mia Hobbs:
00:45:32
shark teeth phase or if the kids are sick and you don't want them



Mia Hobbs:
00:45:37
to vomit on a handknit jumper that I keep in the back of the



Mia Hobbs:
00:45:41
wardrobe, but the others are all handmade now. Yeah, I was going



Mia Hobbs:
00:45:48
to ask about knitting high end and knitting low. If you've got



Mia Hobbs:
00:45:51
any in mind.



DWJ:
00:45:55
Knitting High. Probably the first time I figured out how to



DWJ:
00:45:59
adapt a sweater for Jelly Bean's size.



Mia Hobbs:
00:46:02
Oh, yeah. And can you remember what that was.



DWJ:
00:46:04
Uh huh. It was an Angelina pullover. Um, and I knit it for



DWJ:
00:46:09
myself first. And she was an had been a new rescue. And so we



DWJ:
00:46:16
hadn't had her for long. But the whole time I've been knitting



DWJ:
00:46:20
mine, she had been using the ball of yarn as a pillow. And



DWJ:
00:46:26
she's so little, because she's just five pounds. And sometimes



DWJ:
00:46:29
you buy some of the store bought stuff. It's a little too big.



DWJ:
00:46:33
And I was like, You know what? I bought her stuff. And I paid too



DWJ:
00:46:37
much money for things. I need you to sit down. I've already



DWJ:
00:46:41
knit this. So I just need to do the math to shrink it down. And



DWJ:
00:46:45
I did it. And it was the most adorable, ridiculous thing I



DWJ:
00:46:49
ever knit.



Mia Hobbs:
00:46:50
and she loves wearing them.



Mia Hobbs:
00:46:52
She loves I mean, she wears clothes every day. Because yeah,



Mia Hobbs:
00:46:55
they're cold. Yeah. And it just was one of those things where



Mia Hobbs:
00:46:59
you know, cuz, like, why would you do that? Or that? Cuz it



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:03
made me happy. Like, that's literally the reason. um so that



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:11
is a really good high, can you think of a low? Oh, I can tell



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:15
you low, I really there was just beautiful cardigan that I really



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:19
wanted to make. And I got halfway through it. But it was



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:22
fishermen's rib and it was killing my hands. Okay, and it



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:26
took me a year and a half to Frog it.



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:28
Oh!



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:30
I finally like I have to let you go. Because I'm never gonna



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:35
finish you. Because every time I pick you up, like I feel the



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:38
ache in my hand. And it wasn't even small yarn. It was just the



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:42
stitch and the positioning of the hand. Like it just was too



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:45
much. Um, and someone else saw it was like You're like halfway



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:49
through. And I was like, Yeah, but I'm never there. I can't, I



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:53
can't do that was sad. But in frogging it. I ended up using



Mia Hobbs:
00:47:57
the yarn and making something with an amazing rainbow. Like



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:01
something else. I'm not too sad anymore. Like, yeah, it had a



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:05
better life. So I think probably the low would be in realising



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:09
like what those limitations are. And I think this year, I've not



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:12
knit as much as I would love to. Yeah. Okay. I've still made some



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:20
really great things that I'm excited about. Just in my head



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:23
has all these things that I want to make sure. And I always end



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:28
need to be an octopus with multiple arms. Yeah, and knit



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:31
way more than I do.



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:33
Yeah. Yeah. So you're full of ideas. And is that part of the



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:36
joy of the knitting? Like the planning the next project and



Mia Hobbs:
00:48:39
what colours or yarn you're going to use? And?



DWJ:
00:48:41
100% 100% Yeah, yeah, I love like, especially if I'm



DWJ:
00:48:45
knitting for someone else. I love that moment. When I know



DWJ:
00:48:49
the person I figure out the yarn and the pattern, it all clicks,



DWJ:
00:48:53
and it's so perfect. And you're like, like, my husband wanted



DWJ:
00:48:58
some sweater and I realised I knit this version of this



DWJ:
00:49:02
sweater for my sister the year before. And I realised I had the



DWJ:
00:49:05
perfect combination of yarn to make it for him a colourwork



DWJ:
00:49:10
sweater. And he never pays attention. So like I've been



DWJ:
00:49:14
knitting it. And then finally I was like, Okay, I need to try



DWJ:
00:49:16
this on. He's like, why? And I was like, I've been knitting a



DWJ:
00:49:19
sweater. Right? Like that's for me. I'm I guess, I mean,



Mia Hobbs:
00:49:27
I saw someone on Instagram. do you know. I think



Mia Hobbs:
00:49:30
drunk knitter I think is their Instagram and she was had a, she



Mia Hobbs:
00:49:34
was knitting next to her husband. And then she got him to



Mia Hobbs:
00:49:37
take a picture of her knitting something for him. And I was



Mia Hobbs:
00:49:41
thinking, I so could do that.



DWJ:
00:49:45
My husband, we went, we went to New Orleans on a trip



DWJ:
00:49:49
one year, and we're in a store and he held up a scarf and he



DWJ:
00:49:52
was like, if you could make me something like this, I would



DWJ:
00:49:54
love it. So while we're there, I took him into the yarn shop like



DWJ:
00:49:59
we'll pick the Colour yarn you want. So he knew the yarn. And



DWJ:
00:50:03
we used to commute together in the car, and I knit that scarf



DWJ:
00:50:06
for him in the car in front of him for Christmas. And he never



DWJ:
00:50:10
noticed. He never noticed I pulled that scarf out every



DWJ:
00:50:16
morning and every evening in our commute, and I made it in the



DWJ:
00:50:19
car in front of that man. And he never noticed. So I realised if



DWJ:
00:50:23
I don't talk about what it is that I'm making. Yeah, he pays



DWJ:
00:50:27
absolutely



Mia Hobbs:
00:50:28
screened it out.



DWJ:
00:50:30
Because I'm always knitting. Yeah, why would he



DWJ:
00:50:33
think it's for him? Yeah. So it wasn't until I said them the



DWJ:
00:50:36
other day, like, you know, this what it is for you? He's like,



DWJ:
00:50:40
what?



Mia Hobbs:
00:50:42
I was wondering whether you could get him a



Mia Hobbs:
00:50:43
surprise. Clearly you can. Yeah, yeah.



DWJ:
00:50:47
All the time. And then I'm like, he's, like, yes, yes. paid



DWJ:
00:50:52
zero attention.



Mia Hobbs:
00:50:55
But he's delighted for the outcome.



Mia Hobbs:
00:50:56
Oh, no, he's not. I know. It's like, there's certain certain



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:00
things that make like there are hats. I haven't even gotten to



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:02
block because as soon as I show him, like, I just finished your



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:05
hat. And the next day, I'm like, where did it go? And then he



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:09
comes home, and it's on his head. The process not over it



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:13
needs to be blocked. Um, so there's something that he



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:16
absolutely like. And he is very, He's usually very specific. He



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:21
is very specific in his request, and will like, show you a



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:25
picture or give you an example and then tell you what colour



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:29
okay. And he usually only asked for one thing a year, and I



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:33
can't so I always make it for him. So I made him a sweater



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:37
this year because I wanted to. But he has asked for a scarf and



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:42
a specific yarn, which I got for him. So I'll be working on that



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:47
mindlessly, for him garter stitch scarf, it's really more



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:53
about the yarn. He thought. He saw a speckled yarn in a sweater



Mia Hobbs:
00:51:57
that I made. He's like, I want yarn like that. But it like



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:02
blue, red and white. And so like, oh, he just wants



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:05
speckles. Okay.



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:08
He didn't know he wanted speckles,



DWJ:
00:52:10
he didn't know. He kept looking at my sweater. I like I



DWJ:
00:52:14
like, like this effect. And so i'm like, you like the yarn?



DWJ:
00:52:19
Okay. That's what you're telling me is you'd like the speckled



DWJ:
00:52:22
yarn. Got it? I got it.



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:24
So you just have to translate that. Yeah. For him.



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:27
It



DWJ:
00:52:27
He usually gives me the visuals are enough thing. Yeah.



DWJ:
00:52:30
Where I can figure out and I'll ask questions like, Is it the



DWJ:
00:52:33
texture? Or is it the colour or how it's arranged? And he'll be



DWJ:
00:52:38
like, no, no, it's this and I'm like, oh, that I can do.



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:42
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And I always end the podcast with



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:47
asking, what's the greatest gift that knitting has given you for



Mia Hobbs:
00:52:50
the rest of your life?



DWJ:
00:52:52
Creative expression, probably. I've always been a



DWJ:
00:52:58
really creative, artistic person. And I think it has



DWJ:
00:53:04
helped me find ways to express myself even like, embroidering



DWJ:
00:53:09
on my knits now. Hmm. So like, as I go through some quotes and



DWJ:
00:53:13
things I pull in grad school, and I was like, You know what, I



DWJ:
00:53:17
just need to start embroidering some of these things onto like



DWJ:
00:53:20
simple sweaters because these are like things that I live by



DWJ:
00:53:24
are things that are kind of what guide me in my research and my



DWJ:
00:53:27
academic work or like, things that I love. And so it has given



DWJ:
00:53:33
me another way to kind of have a creative outlet and express



DWJ:
00:53:36
myself, which I'm very thankful for. And isn't necessarily



DWJ:
00:53:41
something that we get all the time or, you know, I was raised,



DWJ:
00:53:46
where my parents really encouraged my creativity and for



DWJ:
00:53:50
me to express myself in those kinds of ways. So to find a way



DWJ:
00:53:55
as an adult to have an outlet, I think so often we get caught up



DWJ:
00:54:01
in work. Yeah, allow that to take over our lives and my dad



DWJ:
00:54:04
was always like, I do not live to work I work so that I can



DWJ:
00:54:07
live the life that I want to live and so I always tried to



DWJ:
00:54:11
find a balance and to find moments of joy for myself and



DWJ:
00:54:16
things that like that come outside of work when I leave my



DWJ:
00:54:19
my when I used to leave with nine to five job, I had other



DWJ:
00:54:22
things I wanted to do and enjoy and I told my students like it's



DWJ:
00:54:25
a little different for me as a professor, but like, I told him,



DWJ:
00:54:29
you know, my, my winter break is about Yes, I have some research



DWJ:
00:54:33
work I had to do, but also I'm gonna knit and I'm gonna play



DWJ:
00:54:36
video games. And I'm gonna give myself that mental break that I



DWJ:
00:54:40
need. Because I also think it rejuvenates me and it makes me a



DWJ:
00:54:47
better educator, a better person because I have creativity and



DWJ:
00:54:52
things that are exciting outside of just doing every day.



Mia Hobbs:
00:54:56
That's great. I often like I often see young people



Mia Hobbs:
00:54:59
for therapy Who are in exam years and I find, they often end



Mia Hobbs:
00:55:03
up giving up their hobbies for those exam years, because



Mia Hobbs:
00:55:06
they're trying to focus on passing exams. And I'm like, No,



Mia Hobbs:
00:55:08
this is the time you need those things even more.



DWJ:
00:55:12
This is when you need it. And I for me, you know, I just



DWJ:
00:55:16
sat for comps, so two days, for 12 hours total of writing. And I



DWJ:
00:55:23
just my in between hours and my in between days, I was knitting



DWJ:
00:55:27
as a way to say, I have all this stuff that I've stored in my



DWJ:
00:55:31
brain. So I need to just give myself a moment to not just



DWJ:
00:55:36
focus on what it is that I've been writing and working on



DWJ:
00:55:39
thinking about theories and methodology and, like, let's



DWJ:
00:55:42
work on this hat. Because



Mia Hobbs:
00:55:45
I find sometimes that the ideas percolate a bit when



Mia Hobbs:
00:55:48
I'm knitting, like, I'm not trying to access thinking about



Mia Hobbs:
00:55:53
work or having ideas about things, but somehow they arrive.



Mia Hobbs:
00:55:57
When I'm knitting.



DWJ:
00:55:58
Sometimes I have that verse. And so I scribble notes



DWJ:
00:56:02
on my patterns. Okay. Um, and then also for me, because a lot



DWJ:
00:56:08
of my research goes into the knitting community. Sometimes it



DWJ:
00:56:14
makes me think about or see things in different ways. So I



DWJ:
00:56:17
have time to kind of process that information. Yeah. No, I



DWJ:
00:56:22
always make my my best friend has a really stressful job. And



DWJ:
00:56:25
I'm like, You need to pick up crocheting or weaving. Because



DWJ:
00:56:30
they are stressing you out. And I want you to find a way to



DWJ:
00:56:34
disconnect and reconnect with yourself so that they don't pull



DWJ:
00:56:38
all of the creativity out of you just for this job that you get



DWJ:
00:56:41
to save a little bit for yourself.



Mia Hobbs:
00:56:45
Dana, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the



Mia Hobbs:
00:56:47
podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure hearing your



Mia Hobbs:
00:56:50
experiences and all your ideas.



DWJ:
00:56:52
Thank you for having me.



Mia Hobbs:
00:56:59
Thank you so much for listening to series, one of the



Mia Hobbs:
00:57:02
why I knit podcast. I've really enjoyed having these



Mia Hobbs:
00:57:04
conversations and sharing them with you. If you've enjoyed the



Mia Hobbs:
00:57:07
podcast, please subscribe so that you're notified when series



Mia Hobbs:
00:57:10
two begins at the beginning of March. Thank you