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And the mom said Scott shot Penny. And I was like,
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is she okay? And my mom was just like, no,
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She's not okay.
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Penny was a bright and trusting fifteen year old.
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She was neat. She's a neat little girl.
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But to Scott's struthers, a family friend, Penny became an obsession.
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He started stalking her. There were threats. How many oh
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Scott was arrested, hospitalized.
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He's in their psychiatric board writing how cool will you
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look when I walk up and glow your brains out?
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Then the unthinkable. Aaron Moriarty has some tough questions. Are
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the doctors who treated him responsible for Penny's death? Are
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her parents and they are the familar your faces on
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your local news? Are they in danger?
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Nobody knows right now how many news anchors get stocked.
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A stunker chased this reporter out.
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Of town, letters detailing about sexual fantasies, ultimately ending with
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me being drawn at a bathtub.
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This reporter never had a chance.
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To run case.
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Troy Roberts on being watched a little too closely? What
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does you want from her?
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I don't know.
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Forty eight hours investigates to catch a stalker.
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Good evening and welcome to forty eight Hours investigates. I'm
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Leslie Stall. Penny Chang new and trusted Scott Struck. So
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did Penny's parents. Indeed, Scott Struthers was like a member
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of the family and just about the last person they
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would have ever suspected of posing a threat to their daughter.
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That's what makes this case even harder to understand. There
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were warning signs that may have been missed, and there
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may have been miscommunication too. But there is also a
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question hanging over this case as to whether the experts,
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the doctors are at all to blame to Penny's family,
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The answer is clear. Aaron Moriarty reports on a story
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of misplaced trusts that led to tragedy.
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Outside Cleveland, Ohio, located is a two to one mathematician.
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Cl Chang found what he couldn't in his native China,
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academic freedom and a culturally rich and diverse neighborhood where
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he and his wife, you want, could raise their four children.
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Who wanted us to have a stable, happy family, you know,
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just for us have a better life.
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Yes, Joanne Chang, the oldest I loved growing up in
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Shaker Heights.
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You see children playing outside all the time. It's a
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comforting place to live.
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So are you ready? Joanne is a medical student. Sean
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is pursuing a master's degree in computer graphics watching football.
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Moren the youngest is a high school junior. And then
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there was Penny.
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She is the most beautiful child that we had.
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How did you name Penny?
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Penny?
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It's Pennsylvania.
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Is a Pennsylvania who was born in Pennsylvania.
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You must have really liked Pennsylvania.
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And did she speak Chinese very well?
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She was so so Americanized.
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Yeah, she's definitely pretty much a typical American girl. I mean,
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talking to Fall for hours. She was neat. She was
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a neat little girl.
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A child who thrived in her adopted community where no
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one would have predicted what happened.
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Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb. It's very diverse. There's
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a lot of old money, and I think people don't
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like to think things like this happen in places like that.
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You know, we've learned they do.
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Mike Tobin, a reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer, says
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the problems began for the Chang family in the summer
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of nineteen ninety eight. Penny had a summer job working
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alongside Scott Struthers, her brother's best friend since middle school.
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How would you describe Scott back then?
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Very shy, very quiet, you know, really odd, really, you know,
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unorthodox sense of humor. I just thought hilarious.
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Scott had almost grown up at the Chang House, went
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on to become Shawn's college roommate.
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She's just so nice and she's such a close friend
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of my brothers, which.
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Is why no one was too concerned when Scott and
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Penny spent a lot of time together, although Penny was
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only fifteen and Scott was twenty one. Did your parents
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sink anything of it that they were spending a lot
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of time together?
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No? Why would they think a twenty one year old
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boy friend of my brother be a threat to my
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fifteen year old sister.
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But the family didn't realize how serious Scott's feelings were.
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Penny was pretty important to him.
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Yeah, and I think you see that in the journals
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where Penny, at least for that summer, was his life.
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Scottstruthers began a journal later that year that described his
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relationship with Penny.
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In his journal, you see him talking about this girl,
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is this wonderful thing? And the object of his affection.
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The times that I had spent with Penny this summer,
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when things were going good and she was nice to me,
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was like a dream come true. The weather was beautiful,
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so was she, and I was at times happier than
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I had ever been in my life.
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There was only one problem. Penny didn't feel the same way.
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It seems like he definitely read too much into it
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and really thought that, you know, she liked him, and
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I just don't think that.
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Was the case. When the summer ended and Penny began
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ignoring Scott, the Chang family phone began ringing off the
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hook for how many phone calls.
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A year?
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Night midnight?
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It made we disconnected the phone.
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Yeah, but things got worse.
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He tried to burn down the garage. He put glue
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my parents' gas tank. He threw like missling objects through
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the window, like little rocks.
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They used to show these windows. Was brought the frontal one,
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the biggest fronto was broken.
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Days later, the police arrested Scott Struthers. Shaker Heights Police
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Chief Walter you Grinnick. Would you describe Scott Struthers as
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a stalker?
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Yes, Yes, he was following her.
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He was keeping an eye on her.
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She seemed like a shy, kind young boy.
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Well, it's not so much.
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Were you worried that Scott would ever hurt her?
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I was a little, but it wasn't Overwhelmwolming.
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Did she seem scared of him at all? She didn't.
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She didn't. She was fifteen.
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Struthers was charged with telephone harassment and misdemeanor arson, but
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right before sentencing, he voluntarily admitted himself to this hospital
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for observation. Do you think Scott Struthers went to the
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Cleveland clinic because he really wanted help.
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No, I think it was a legal tactic to show
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the court, you know, I'm sorry, and I'm taking steps
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to correct my behavior, and I'm sick and I'm getting help.
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Whatever his motive, Struthers stayed here for five weeks. He
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was released on Thanksgiving Day nineteen ninety eight after doctors
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determined he was no longer a threat, even though the
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journal that Struthers began as part of his therapy here
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contained some very threatening entries.
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It's scary, you know, it's just frightening because he lays
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out what he's going to do, and you see this progression,
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this evolution in his mind of her as this sweet
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little girl to this evil object that has to be
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made to pay.
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The tone of Scott's writing becomes increasingly menacing.
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I think that my actions were a way to force
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myself to be an important part of her life, even
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though it was in a negative way. I once thought,
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forget about me, bitch, I will make you remember me forever.
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And then the one that just still to this day
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can't get over how cool and superior will you look
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when I blow your brains out into the ground. He's
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at the Cleveland Clinic in their psychiatric word writing, how
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cool will you look when I walk up and blow
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your brains out? And five months later, in broad daylight,
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across the street from the police station, that's exactly what
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he did.
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Three and a half months after being released from the
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Cleveland Clinic, at seven point thirty on a cold March morning,
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Scott Struthers stalked Penny Chang one more time as she
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walked to school. He approached her from behind and shot
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her three times in the back of the head. Penny
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was rushed to the emergency room, but it was too late.
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They bring me to to see the s to see Penny.
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I saw Penny sleep on the bed and if.
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I read the floor, ah, I know what happens.
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I checked her Puss, I found nothing.
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My mom said Scott shot Penny. And I was like,
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is she okay? And my mom was just like, no,
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she's not okay. Oh my gosh. Those words were sh
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she's not okay?
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Well, how bad off is she? So she's dead?
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This had been a best friend. Who is your reaction
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to that?
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Oh?
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Shock?
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Of course?
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That is all this worldshocking, just unbelievable.
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Six months after the shooting, Scott's brothers pled guilty to murder.
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He's now serving a sentence of twenty three years to life.
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I mean, I'm glad that he's not going to see
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like the sun come up really and I'm gonna make
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sure of that too.
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It just keeps the eyes.
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But for the Chang family, Scott isn't the only guilty party.
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Do you blame someone for Penny's death?
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The first of all ran, of course, Scottstrather. The second
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person is the person took here Scott's Strather.
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For the entire five months prior to Penny's death, Scott's
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brothers was receiving psychiatric care. First as a patient here
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at the Cleveland Clinic and then when he was released
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from a private therapist. The Changs believed these professionals could
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and should have stopped brothers from killing their daughter. They're
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suing them for twenty million dollars.
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I feel they made so much.
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Me think the case is pursued as a wrongful death case.
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Paul Kaufman is the Chang's attorney. What do you see
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as the biggest failing on the part of Cleveland Clinic.
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I think their biggest failing was in discharging him when
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they did. I mean, it's our position he still needed
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to be hospitalized.
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Everyone agrees that when Struthers first arrived at the Cleveland
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Clinic after stalking Penny and facing charges of harassment, he
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was a severely troubled young man. Do you remember meeting Scott, Yes,
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I do, forensic psychiatrist Kathleen Quinn.
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So in many ways he looked quite ordinary, although the
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concerns were extraordinary about him. What do you mean well
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that there was an issue of dangerousness?
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Doctor Quinn says Struthers exhibited a number of behaviors which
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made him a significant risk for violence, including severe anger,
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homicidal thoughts and a desire to obtain a gun.
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That resulted in an immediate Hut hospitalization and there being
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a commitment paper a drawn up.
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What's more, Struthers made no secret of his desire to
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kill Penny in his journal. But Struthers appeared to improve,
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and after just five weeks of treatment, he was discharged,
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even though hospital record show doctors still had some concerns.
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Two days before he was discharged. They didn't believe him,
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and they doubted his credibility, and he was showing no
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remorse and he was having no emotional reaction. I don't
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see how anybody could think that this young man was
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ready to be discharged.
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I've had some concerns about his veracity.
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George Tessar was the attending psychiatrists who authorized Struther's release.
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They weren't consistent concerns from day to day, and by
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the end of the evaluation, I was quite convinced that
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he was telling us the truth as he felt it.
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Then in exclude, he was a interview with forty eight hours.
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Doctor Tesser says he released Ruthers only after seeing great
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improvement in his patients.
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He no longer made those statements about wanting to kill
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her or feeling any compulsion to kill her. He was feeling.
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Better, According to Tessar, the homicidal thoughts expressed in Scott's
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journal we're all in the past tense. At one point
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in his journal, he writes, basically, I was thinking, how
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cool and superior will you look, bitch when I blow
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your brains out into the ground. You can just get
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rid of those feelings. A week or two later, well.
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I think, yeah, that's possible.
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He was not conveying the same kind of impression at
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the end of this hospitalization.
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This man's assessment at discharge was correct. It was correct
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because he didn't do anything when he was discharged.
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Attorney Jim Malone is defending the Cleveland Clinic.
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Nothing violent took place for three and a half months.
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He says, expecting psychiatrists to predict violence that far into
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the future is expecting too much.
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The Cleveland Clinic has every medical device to benefit humankind.
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The one thing they don't have is a crystal ball
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that works.
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Our clinical experience suggests that we're pretty good at it
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at predicting violence in the short term. Twenty four forty
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eight seventy two hours after an evaluation beyond that, nobody's
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very good at predicting violence.
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If the Cleveland Clinic couldn't predict that Scott Struthers would
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become a killer, what about the private therapist who picked
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up his case and saw him regularly right up until
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he bought a gun to kill Penny? Scott Struthers met
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with Rainacrell regularly for three and a half months. On
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March twelfth, nineteen ninety nine, Struthers bought a gun, took
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it to this shooting range and practice firing it. Although
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he had seen Krell two days earlier, she saw no
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sign of his escalating anger. How did RAINA. Krell not
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see that?
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I think you'd have to ask her.
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Kroll refused to talk with forty eight hours, but she
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told the courts did he ever.
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Make any threats of any kind?
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No?
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Did he ever have any evidence of recent homicidal ideation?
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No?
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Did he ever show any evidence of present dangerousness.
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No.
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He had talked about comments of feeling regret, feeling more
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personally responsible.
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He's demonstrated an interest in work.
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From your perspective, is this positive negative?
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What?
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I viewed it as positive?
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I think she looked at him as sort of the
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jilted boyfriend depression type of situation and never really got
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below the surface.
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Isn't it possible that he was such a good actor
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he really fooled all the doctors.
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Sure, it's possible, But the problem with that is that
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these doctors are the experts.
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00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:20.400
With millions of dollars and their reputations at stake. Scott's
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Brothers doctors are fighting back by pointing the blame at
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Penny's own family.
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He's the most beautiful child we have.
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That's next just plain old fashioned evil, and there is
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scarcely anything that can be done by mental health or
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anybody else to prevent evil from having its way. Penny
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Chang was gunned down by this former patient, Scott's Brothers.
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Cleveland clinic attorney Jim Malone says doctors did all they
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could for both Struthers and the Changs, including taking the
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extraordinary step of calling the Chang family to tell them
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of Struther's release. But was that phone call sending a
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mixed message? You're discharging him because you think he's say,
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why then do you feel an obligation to inform the Changs.
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That sounds like you weren't quite sure whether he was
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00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.319
saying Cleveland Clinic psychiatrist George Tessar, we.
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Thought, in a view of the comments that he had
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made and the kind of interaction he'd had with the
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Changs prior to the hospitalization, that it was only courteous
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00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:35.799
fair to let them know that he was being discharged.
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So there was a little concern.
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00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.200
There was concern that they should be informed that he
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was no longer in the hospital.
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But the Changs say that phone call led them to
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believe they no longer had to worry about Struthers.
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My dad told me, they call him Scott is no
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longer a threat to your family. And with that little comment,
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00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:58.400
I mean actually my dad was.
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00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.839
Very relieved t us to cremnd crink very much. They say,
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00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.039
no problem, do you have no intention? Which, okay, he's
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possible a good boy.
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00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.559
But the hospital left out an important fact. Their assessment
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00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.599
of Struthers was only meant for the short term. Did
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00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.440
anybody tell the Changs that. Did anybody say, Okay, today
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00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.960
we think he might not be a risk, but a
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00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:25.519
month down the road it's anybody's bet and you better
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be careful.
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00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.759
No, we didn't tell the Changs that common sense would
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tell you that you don't know exactly what's going to
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happen three months down the line.
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Do you think in retrospect that warning was enough for
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00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:37.759
the Changs.
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I don't know.
329
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.839
It's certainly an important point to consider.
330
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Whether or not the warning was adequate is an issue
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00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.359
a trial because of what happened nearly three months later.
332
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.799
The Changs claimed that phone call is the reason why
333
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:55.000
they didn't become alarmed when out of the blue Scott
334
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:56.839
Struthers make contact again.
335
00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.400
Everything that happened to Scott after the summer is all
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00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.960
Pennies fall. She ruined his life for her own petty amusement.
337
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.640
This time it was in the form of emails. Everything
338
00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:09.759
he did with Cleveland playing dealer reporter Mike Tobin.
339
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.079
The number one rule of stocking is never used your
340
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:14.799
own phone. He didn't care if he got caught.
341
00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:20.400
He's talking about himself. The same angry rambling emails written
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00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.440
in the third person were sent to Penny, her brother,
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00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:27.240
and her father, but the Changs didn't find them threatening.
344
00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.400
I saw nothing dangerous in February email.
345
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.119
Nothing dangerous, just angers, complaint complaining, complaint.
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00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:36.160
Well, I don't think they believed there was anything to
347
00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:39.079
worry about, but my word. But do you have to
348
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.039
hear to be worried in response.
349
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.119
To the In fact, the Changs reached out to brothers
350
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.000
after receiving them do anything.
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00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:50.319
Oh, basically, you know, I said, look, okay, you've scolded
352
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.599
her enough. Just leave her alone and continue your life.
353
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:54.400
You think about Penny.
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00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.519
There's lots of girls that'll house State campus.
355
00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:59.480
When you emailed him, what did you say back?
356
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.680
Like teacher, I say, go back to the college. In
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00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.440
media today, you are ruining yourself.
358
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.039
Isn't it possible that Changs were still relying on the
359
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.799
word of the hospital three months earlier. He's no longer
360
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.440
a threat, and that's why they didn't react to the emails.
361
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:21.160
I suppose it's a conceivable explanation, but a rather naive
362
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:22.799
responds to threat.
363
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:27.799
One month later, just days before the murder, Struther's email,
364
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:28.839
the Changs again.
365
00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:34.000
Next time it's a March email about sixty pages, sixty
366
00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:37.000
pages six zero sixty pages, like a book.
367
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.559
This time, the Changs didn't read them, thinking they were
368
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.400
simply more of Scott's harmless complaints.
369
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.880
And I saw nothing dangerous in the first few pages.
370
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:51.519
Had he read further, he would have been horrified, buried,
371
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.839
Within the sixty pages, Struthers spells out his plan to
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kill Penny.
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00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.440
I would like to take a hammer and repeatedly smash
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her face and with it until her face is a Soupye,
375
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.880
bloody pulp. Scott's moral duty has been satisfied by just
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00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.640
sending these messages. You can never say that you didn't
377
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:11.640
know you were given the opportunity.
378
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.079
Remember that that's really craepy.
379
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:14.440
Uh.
380
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He was warning them of what he was going to do,
381
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.000
and they didn't realize it.
382
00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:19.960
I thought he was doing better.
383
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:23.519
Neither did RAINA. Krell, the therapists who had been treating
384
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.200
Struthers at the same time he was writing out his
385
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.720
murderous intentions.
386
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.279
Did you, when you were treating Scott Struthers have any
387
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:31.279
information at all.
388
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:32.200
Relating to these emails?
389
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No?
390
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:32.839
I did not.
391
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.960
Did you ever hear of them when.
392
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.160
You were treating No?
393
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.880
Did you do your very best treating Scott Struthers.
394
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.640
I did the best I could with the information I had.
395
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:44.559
You're a professional person.
396
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:46.960
You're not expecting her to be a mind reader.
397
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:51.440
Nobody through my reader, but should know he has the intention.
398
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.880
But Cleveland Clinic attorney Jim Malone says, since only the
399
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.559
Changs knew about the emails. Only the Changs could have
400
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.960
prevented their daughter's death by notifying the police.
401
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.680
In the bottom of your heart, doctor Chang, don't you
402
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.160
know that you should have called for help, That a
403
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.359
call to the police would have stopped all of this.
404
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.039
If I read.
405
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:19.160
Email total de deafiniteit eight high car partice.
406
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:23.680
Was part of your strategy to deflect blame away from
407
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.160
the hospital and onto the check.
408
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:25.400
No.
409
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.119
I don't believe they're responsible for the death of their daughter.
410
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.200
But what I say is this, if that phone call
411
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.119
had been placed, the Shaker Heights Police Department would have
412
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.839
had this man off the streets very rapidly.
413
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.960
We probably take something to blame, right, But here they're
414
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:41.880
trying to saying that it's not their fault at all.
415
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:44.160
What kind of all?
416
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:44.440
Right?
417
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.599
Now, it's up to the jury to decide.
418
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.079
If the doctor the psychiatrist looks at a patient and
419
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:54.720
makes a decision about a treatment plan or a discharge plan,
420
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.240
and he does that in so called good faith, then
421
00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:01.400
he's immune by law from the consequences of that decision.
422
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:03.880
I will read the verdict in this case.
423
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.920
After just two hours. The jury agrees.
424
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.319
As to the defendant Cleveland Clinic in favor of the
425
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.599
defendant Cleveland Clinic. As to the defendant, Reina Kraw in
426
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.880
favor of the defendants, Rena Krow.
427
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.359
The Changs will get nothing from the clinic or the doctors.
428
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:25.079
Where do you think the weak spot in your case was?
429
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.599
I think it's extremely difficult to win a case against
430
00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:30.400
doctors and or therapists. We've got a lot of burdens
431
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:32.400
to overcome all of the burdens around us.
432
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:34.720
What should we take from this case?
433
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:38.599
We've learned that there are profound limitations to what psychiatry
434
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.880
can do and what its onus of responsibility should be.
435
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.359
We made our decisions based on what we thought were
436
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:50.039
reasonable observations and interpretations of what we were seeing, and
437
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:52.200
it could well be that the Changs were as well.
438
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:57.839
But doctor Chang still believes the psychiatrist could have done more,
439
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.480
and since we first brought you this story, worry He's
440
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:02.680
filed an appeal for a new trial.
441
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:03.920
Penny was cured.
442
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.160
Nobody can change the situation. But I like to show
443
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.200
as many as psychiatrists do your Perferdal job care for,
444
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.279
you don't repeat such things. We don't like this happened again.
445
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.960
What advice would you have for a family that's in
446
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:20.640
your situation.
447
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:27.799
It's better to be extremely worried than to have this happen.
448
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:29.880
I'm sorry, So what you're worried was so what?
449
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:34.680
Ooh, big deal? You have a sister, you have your daughter.
450
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:51.200
Stalking happens to be an occupational hazard of this business
451
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.880
television reporting that nobody likes to talk about, but the
452
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:59.000
stalking of on air personalities is a growing concern. It's
453
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.799
even become a topic of conversation at various professional gatherings
454
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.279
among local television anchors and reporters. They are especially at
455
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.839
risk since they're often encouraged to connect with the audience
456
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:14.440
on a personal level. The trouble is, it's hard to
457
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:18.240
know who's watching. Troy Roberts has a story of some
458
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.079
local television reporters who made the headlines for all the
459
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:23.039
wrong reasons.
460
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:28.240
Just energetic meteorologist George Kessler was the top rated weatherman
461
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:30.240
in Duluth, Minnesota.
462
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.440
Look, here's satellite picture in motion. You say, George, why
463
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.240
is it so windy?
464
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.799
In all of our audience research, we saw George Kessler
465
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:38.680
as our most popular personality.
466
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.039
KBJRTV News director David jinch.
467
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.119
People felt like George Kesler was their friend.
468
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:46.720
Now the general six six o'clock.
469
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.880
News my television. You can't beat it for Russia.
470
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.839
If you're deep down inside secretly an adrenaline junkie, it's.
471
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:55.680
It's what you want to do.
472
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:56.240
I know.
473
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:57.160
Is that frozen now?
474
00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:00.880
Kessler felt right at home in Duluth with his wife,
475
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.759
Sheila and their small children. This was a perfect fit
476
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:04.720
for you, right.
477
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.440
You liked the city.
478
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.240
I love the city. The Luth is a great town.
479
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.160
You could drop a money clip in the middle of
480
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.519
the street and somebody chase after you to give it back,
481
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.599
and so you have this wonderful sense of it is.
482
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.839
It's almost childlike the security that you have here.
483
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:21.960
Snowshowers will hold up you think they're.
484
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:22.319
Just gonna die.
485
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.799
But for George Kessler, the childlike security would turn into
486
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:32.440
agony and fear in the very town he embraced at
487
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.039
the same TV station he loved. It all began to
488
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.160
unravel one day in March of two thousand and when
489
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:40.640
Kessler arrived for work.
490
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.640
It was Monday, and I was coming through the newsroom
491
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.200
pretty quickly saw that my message light was on. So
492
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.319
you're putting your stuff down, you set your voicemail to
493
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:54.880
play back, and all of a sudden it just erupted. This,
494
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.319
you know, stream of vitriol came out of the phone.
495
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:03.240
Oh man, mister, I'm not going homosexual, if you understand me.
496
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:08.200
The caller was a man Kessler had never met, forty
497
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:12.400
two year old Shawn Wayne Thorson, a psychiatric patient with
498
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:16.960
a reputation for violence. Did Sean Thorson threaten you with
499
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.160
bodily heart?
500
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:18.799
Oh?
501
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:20.799
Yes, in no uncertain terms.
502
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.359
The next time you call me, preferably gave it the
503
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:24.039
weather man.
504
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.799
I'm going to be the.
505
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:26.680
Joke.
506
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.359
He was seeing George's weather and he felt that George
507
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.519
was saying things to him. I'm seeing things threatening things.
508
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:35.640
He felt George was threatening him through the TV.
509
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.799
Yeah, this is Sean again, and I'm not going to
510
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:42.319
accept your apology. You happen to be one of those
511
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.799
people who can dish it out but can't take it
512
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.200
on it yourself. Well, you're going to find out the
513
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:49.559
hard way of my friend. I can definitely do something
514
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.519
about it, and God bestowed upon myself the power to
515
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:52.799
do so.
516
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:58.440
Thorson ignored warnings from police, even a restraining order, to
517
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:02.079
stop making the phone calls. For that, he spent four
518
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:06.039
months in a mental institution, but after he was released,
519
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:10.240
Thorson went straight back to the phone.
520
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:13.240
And your math ain't getting away what you've done to me,
521
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:15.519
especially for calling your dogs the police on me.
522
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.279
Over the next year, Thorson was committed and released for
523
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:24.279
mental illness two more times. Incredibly, there was nothing more
524
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.160
Kessler or the police could do.
525
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.960
The way the laws are, you can't necessarily have security
526
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:35.160
in a situation like this until something really bad happens.
527
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:40.400
Do you think, given the opportunity, Sean Thorson would have
528
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:40.880
killed you.
529
00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:44.240
If he was in the grips of a delusion and
530
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:49.480
I happen to be available to him, Yes, without a doubt.
531
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.559
The question really is how many stalkers does a celebrity have,
532
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.480
not if they have any.
533
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.680
Forensic psychiatrist doctor Park Deets has spent years in investigating
534
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:05.400
and testifying against serial killers and stalkers, including Jeffrey Dahmer
535
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:09.640
and John Hinckley. Deete says stalking of television news personalities
536
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.759
is an occupational hazard that few in the TV industry
537
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:14.960
are willing to discuss.
538
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.640
The illusion of intimacy is inherent in the medium. It's
539
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.960
inevitable that some viewers are going to be attracted to.
540
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.039
This takebook satellite picture in motion.
541
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:29.279
And while George Kessler's ordeal wasn't unique, stalker's more frequently
542
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:29.960
target women.
543
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:37.359
The ideal victim is a sweet, kind, gentle, pretty, accepting,
544
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:43.160
approachable virgin that allows many men in the audience to
545
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:44.960
have the view she's meant for me.
546
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:47.440
Good afternoon, and welcome to New seven At noon.
547
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.119
I'm Melanie Moon, anchorwoman.
548
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.759
Melanie Moon was a rising star at WDBJ in Roanoke, Virginia,
549
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.160
when in nineteen ninety six she started getting dark suggestive
550
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:01.160
letters from not one, but several.
551
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:06.920
Viewers, letters detailing about sexual fantasies and ultimately ending with
552
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.559
me being drown at a bathtub?
553
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.799
What did these letters do to you?
554
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.440
Psychologically, emotionally give you nightmares?
555
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.599
For months, I would take a shower with the bathroom
556
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.960
door locked. It would be at the grocery store. If
557
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.079
someone looked at me strangely for a second, I would think,
558
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.799
maybe that's them.
559
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.160
By the fall of nineteen ninety seven, the FBI was
560
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.559
searching for Melanie Moon stalkers. Then she began hearing from
561
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:35.799
forty seven year old David Lee Duff.
562
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.359
The first couple letters I got, he would call me
563
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:43.240
the Goddess of Dawn, and you and I are alone
564
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:46.680
together each morning in my room. They got to things like,
565
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:49.440
I like what you're wearing today. I know you were
566
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.960
wearing it from me, I saw you smiling at me today.
567
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:53.680
Thank you.
568
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.240
And then he sent me an engagement ring.
569
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.160
Even after all she'd been through, Melanie Moon didn't think
570
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.799
David Lee Duff was not to harm her. After all,
571
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.960
he had only sent what she believed were fairly innocent
572
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:10.000
tokens of his affection. But on November fifth, nineteen ninety seven,
573
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:13.920
Duff crossed the line and came to visit Melanie at work.
574
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.920
The confrontation was caught on videotape. Duff was told to leave,
575
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.720
and he did so without incident. Roanoke police then warned
576
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.839
him to stop contacting Moon, but the harassment didn't stop.
577
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.240
He continued to write letters, saying things like they can't
578
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.720
keep us apart. I'll wear jail house orange if.
579
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:35.039
I have to.
580
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.400
It almost came to that. In March of nineteen ninety eight,
581
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:46.319
Melanie Moon saw her stalker for the first time at
582
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.880
the Roanoke City Courthouse.
583
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:55.960
This takes away even more of your feeling unsecure and safe.
584
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.799
David Lee Duff was convicted of stalking, but all he
585
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.680
got was a six month suspended sentence.
586
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:05.319
Or which goool has some breaking news.
587
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:08.960
Melanie Moon got out of Roanoke, taking a new job
588
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.400
in another city where she's better prepared for unwelcome.
589
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.160
Attention, tear gas on a keychain.
590
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.400
Carrying tear gas on her keychain, and a stun gun
591
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:19.160
in her purse.
592
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:21.640
Haven't had to use it yet.
593
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.839
Parkdeed says he understands why she has.
594
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:30.160
Nobody knows right now how many news anchors get stocked.
595
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.079
The likelihood is that for good looking females on the news,
596
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.079
nightly hits one hundred percent.
597
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:44.680
It's a Warningdeed says that not enough television personalities take seriously.
598
00:33:45.799 --> 00:34:04.680
Emergency. Tat you emergency, Well, I'm.
599
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.279
Just wondering if you guys could send out somebody to
600
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:09.639
check out my neighbor upstairs.
601
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:12.840
I'll hear a lot of something on the floor really loud.
602
00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:18.239
January twenty second, nineteen ninety eight, at eight thirty am,
603
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.639
Michael Goodman calls nine to one one in Temple, Texas.
604
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:26.960
Okay, and it's gonna be the apartment in two forty six.
605
00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.360
Yeah, her name's Catherine Sidney.
606
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:31.920
Okay, does she live alone up there?
607
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:32.480
Oh?
608
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:33.199
Yeah she does.
609
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:38.360
Minutes later, police arrive at the Wildwood apartments and make
610
00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:44.599
a horrifying discovery popular local TV reporter Catherine Dettman's nude
611
00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:46.639
body on the floor of her bedroom.
612
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:49.800
Details are sketchy at this point, but here's.
613
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:50.079
What we know.
614
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:52.719
The thirty six year old Debtman had been on the
615
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.159
verge of an important career move. She was taking a
616
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.119
new job at a much larger TV station in Dallas.
617
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:03.719
This be her last day of small town life in Temple, Texas.
618
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:07.440
It was common for her to in the morning get up,
619
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.960
let the cat out, and leave the door slightly ajar
620
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:12.760
so the cat could come in and out while she
621
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:14.880
went about making coffee getting ready to.
622
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:15.320
Go to work.
623
00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:19.159
Assistant Ta Murph Bledsoe.
624
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.920
The evidence appeared that she had come out of the shower,
625
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.239
she made her a noise and come out in a
626
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.440
robe or a towel, and there was a confrontation.
627
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:29.840
Homeside.
628
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:33.880
It was an extremely violent attack.
629
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.400
Temple Police Sergeant Keith Reid.
630
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.320
She had fifteen to sixteen stab wounds.
631
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.920
About half.
632
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:52.400
The suspect was twenty one year old neighbor Anthony Gary Silvestri.
633
00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:56.280
Police found him hiding in Catherine Duptman's bedroom.
634
00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:00.559
His clothes were covered in blood and he had on
635
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.679
his fingers in his hands.
636
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:07.000
Friends of Catherine Deptman say Sylvestri had been stalking her.
637
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:11.000
One coworker told us Catherine had complained to him that
638
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.800
Sylvestri was following her at the apartment complex and showing
639
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.000
up in her car when she came and left home.
640
00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:19.440
She told me about this young guy asking her out
641
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:21.639
at her apartment complex when she had gone to check
642
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.039
her mail.
643
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.840
Yolanda Johnson was a receptionist at the station where Katherine
644
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.480
worked and a close friend. She remembers Catherine mentioning Silvestri
645
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.400
by name.
646
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.239
He had told her that he had seen her on
647
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.239
TV and thought she was a very beautiful lady.
648
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:36.599
She confided on you.
649
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.280
Yes.
650
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:42.360
Paula Brown considered Catherine Deptman her best friend. She says
651
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.679
Deptman was a trusting person and just didn't recognize Silvestri's
652
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:48.760
interests as potentially dangerous.
653
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:50.360
She would have said something.
654
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.880
I mean she would call when her stomach hurt if
655
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.199
someone were after her.
656
00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:00.320
We would have known that Deptman's naivete doesn't surprise part
657
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.679
Deats who says. Many on air personalities aren't even aware
658
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:05.679
they're being stalked.
659
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.760
Most station managers don't even give the news anchors all
660
00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:15.079
their mail or all their email. Very few stations have
661
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:18.639
adequate screening of who gets on the premises or do
662
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:23.719
the things for their talent that can help protect them.
663
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:27.840
Anthony Gary Silvestri pled guilty to the murder of Catherine
664
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:31.719
Dettman and is serving a forty years to life prison sentence.
665
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:34.679
Is that the wrong place, at the wrong time, and
666
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.320
I got mad and I lost my temper.
667
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:41.880
Police searched Silvestri's apartment and found this pair of binoculars,
668
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:45.679
which they believe he used to spy on Debtman, and
669
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:49.639
a friend of Silvestri's told authorities that Silvestri had been
670
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:50.239
watching her.
671
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:54.400
Silvestri had taken him to the part of the apartment
672
00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:56.400
where he could look out across the courtyard and see
673
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.360
a window of Catherine's apartment.
674
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.280
What did he say as he's looking through the binoculars.
675
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.639
She's really fine. She looks like a model.
676
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:10.880
What did you want from her? I don't know.
677
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.679
She really believed that if she was kind and accepting
678
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:21.639
that people would treat her well. I think that was
679
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.239
her desire, and I think that was her belief and
680
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:25.679
her mistake and her mistake.
681
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.800
It's a bad night out there, folks. There's no way
682
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:31.159
around it.
683
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:35.440
Temperature and Duluth, Minnesota, whether man George Kessler heard about
684
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.079
what happened to Catherine Dettman.
685
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:39.960
Yeah, this is Sean again. I'm really not afraid of
686
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:40.440
you people.
687
00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:44.639
And after enduring nearly a year of Sean Thorson's menacing
688
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:49.440
phone calls, he made a drastic decision. Kessler quit his
689
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.320
job and no longer works in television.
690
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.760
And I said, you know, this is not something that's
691
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:55.800
going away.
692
00:38:56.440 --> 00:39:00.679
In his own twisted way, he wanted you to walk
693
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.920
away from your job and he accomplished that.
694
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:06.360
Yes, he won.
695
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.159
We have understand that he wasn't doing it out of malice.
696
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:11.159
Doesn't matter.
697
00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:15.360
He won, right, Yes he did.
698
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:27.320
In the last decade or so, all fifty states have
699
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.800
passed anti stalking laws. At least a dozen states make
700
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.559
stalking an automatic felony, and by no means is it
701
00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:36.400
mainly celebrities who are victims.
702
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:38.079
If you feel you're.
703
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.639
Being followed or threatened, report it to the police, tell
704
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:44.800
a friend, and keep a record of it. That could
705
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:48.280
all be crucial to staying safe. No one wants to
706
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.440
go through life looking over their shoulder, but experts say
707
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.239
a little healthy suspicion could be the first step to
708
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:59.719
stop a stalker. That's forty eight hours investigates.
709
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:51.639
One of my friends mom had texted me because she
710
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.880
lived pretty close to Grapevine late and she was like,
711
00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:55.760
look what happened.
712
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.320
Developing story right now.
713
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:00.880
A body found in the banks of grape Vine Lake.
714
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:06.559
Nothing happens in grape Vine nothing except for what he did.
715
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.079
The victim was identified as Jacqueline Vandergriff.
716
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:16.119
Everyone my name is Jacqueline Vandergriff, but friends call me Jackie.
717
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:19.199
Jackie Vandergriff was twenty four years of age.
718
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:23.119
I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University
719
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:27.320
and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness.
720
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.480
And just beyond this area where the shade is pretty
721
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.800
much hitting, is where we had our crime scene. There
722
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.239
are a lot of things that will shock you, and
723
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.119
this is by far the worst thing I have seen.
724
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:47.599
My manager texts me Charles has just been arrested. I
725
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.880
felt like the world was spinning, like everything was out
726
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:51.559
of control.
727
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:56.400
To believe that. Last Tuesday, Jacqueline Vandergriff met up with
728
00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:00.920
Charles Bryant at a bar in Denton. Allen's video also
729
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:04.599
cell phone pings all put vander Griff and Bryant together.
730
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:10.519
I remember him just being kind of quiet. I immediately said,
731
00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:13.360
there's no way they have the wrong guy. There's no
732
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:14.239
way that he did this.
733
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.800
Are you telling me there's no evidence that Charles Bryant
734
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.800
killed Jackie Vandergriff.
735
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.719
Not direct evidence.
736
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.760
This is kind of my calling dealing with these really
737
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.079
strange cases, the serial killer. It's the ritualistic killings.
738
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:41.719
Hey, how you doing, Jim home with the range life
739
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:42.480
good today or not?
740
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.679
This is not a normal homicide.
741
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:51.000
Yeah, it just it all seemed to started with Caitlin.
742
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:54.360
How screwed up were you?
743
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:54.960
From Caitlin?
744
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:01.800
In the early days, it was good. After that first month,
745
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.320
that's when I started to see these warning signs that
746
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:09.840
he was manipulative, very controlling. I just told him I
747
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:13.360
can't do this anymore. This isn't working, this is over.
748
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.760
He flipped out.
749
00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.960
He showed up at your dorm room out of the blue.
750
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:22.440
You never gave him the address.
751
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.400
No, he didn't trust in his mind.
752
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:28.079
He was seeking revenge, warrned that we got his for
753
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:31.280
stalking on his ex girlfriend who had called the police
754
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:31.760
on him.
755
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:36.079
How he was stalking me was completely related to Jackie
756
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:36.960
Vandergriff's staff.
757
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:45.239
There's some similarities on the way that Vandergriff looks and
758
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.599
the way that Bryan's ex girlfriend look.
759
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:53.079
Do you think there's a chance of possibility that he
760
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:56.719
walked into this bar and saw somebody reminded him of
761
00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:00.960
you and took his rage on her.
762
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:04.639
Most definitely. I think that he really wanted to kill me.
763
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:06.440
I think that he wanted me dead.
764
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.000
When I first arrived on the scene, I saw a
765
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.880
lot of police cars, saw fire trucks, There was a
766
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:01.800
lot of activity.
767
00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:08.159
It was September fourteenth, twenty sixteen, just before dawn when
768
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.119
John Luna, a captain with the grape Vine Police Department,
769
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:15.360
responded to a call about a gruesome discovery here at
770
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.159
grape Vine Lake.
771
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:20.960
Just to offer the worn footpath, you have an area
772
00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:24.559
that's pretty well overgrown with weeds, but you could clearly
773
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.199
see a small area that was burned. Just beyond where
774
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:31.880
I'm standing. There was a body that was obviously charred.
775
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:33.079
It had been set on fire.
776
00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:36.760
The body found inside a blue kiddie pool was so
777
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.719
badly damaged that police could not determine the most basic
778
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:42.159
facts about the victim.
779
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.880
We didn't know if that was an adult or a child,
780
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:47.400
male or a female.
781
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:52.239
The next day, using fingerprints, police were able to identify
782
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:56.400
the victim. It was Jackie Vandergriff, a twenty four year
783
00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:01.039
old nutrition major at Texas Women's University in nearby Denton.
784
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:05.519
I chose this major because I realized the importance of
785
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:07.519
nutrition and just overall health.
786
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:10.840
We're both named Jacqueline, named after Jacqueline Kennedy.
787
00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:15.920
One of Jackie Vandergriff's closest friends, Jackie Tan. They met
788
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:16.639
in high school.
789
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:19.719
Ever since then we were Jackie Squared, and I loved it.
790
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:23.199
She made me feel like I could be myself and
791
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.760
just be goofy and funny.
792
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:30.079
Jackie Tan remembers her friend as a good student who
793
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.440
was focused and trusting.
794
00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:35.920
That girl, smartest girl I've known.
795
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.800
She had her whole life of the head er her.
796
00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:46.360
She had plans, Me and my detectives. We went out
797
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:54.679
there for her memorial service and sorry.
798
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.679
For Captain Luna. The brutality of this crime hit close
799
00:46:58.719 --> 00:46:59.119
to home.
800
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.519
Could have just as easily been my daughter that this
801
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:03.039
happened to.
802
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:08.719
Jackie spent the last evening of her life in Denton
803
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:13.039
with this man. Police didn't know his identity right away,
804
00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:16.280
but this woman knew him very well.
805
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:20.159
He would always give me flowers, always, especially if he
806
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:21.400
had something to be sorry about.
807
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.840
Charles Bryant lived some twenty miles away, but he had
808
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.800
been making frequent visits to Denton trying to rekindle a
809
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:35.119
relationship with his ex girlfriend, Caitlin Mathis, who had recently
810
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:38.440
moved there to attend the University of North Texas.
811
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.639
He was just trying to win me back, and I
812
00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:43.239
was just like, nothing is going to work.
813
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:48.079
Caitlin's involvement with Bryant had begun three months earlier in
814
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.800
June in the town of Grapevine, when it came into
815
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.599
the restaurant where Caitlin was working as a server.
816
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:57.039
The day that I met him was the day after
817
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:03.719
I graduated high school. Lots of muscles and tattoos, which
818
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:05.960
kind of interested me at the time.
819
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:11.039
Bryant was then twenty nine, working as a bartender and
820
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:16.519
personal trainer. You're eighteen he's twenty nine. He's got muscles
821
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:21.400
and tattoos and must have made your mother crazy.
822
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:26.519
Yeah, extremely crazy in a good way though. Yeah, she
823
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:27.280
cared about me.
824
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.039
Being a mother of adult children is a different role.
825
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:37.679
You have to let go for them to fly away
826
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:41.119
and grow up with you.
827
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:45.719
Caitlyn is the youngest of Karen Halsey's four children. She
828
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:47.159
says Caitlyn was hard to.
829
00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:51.840
Miss fireball, you know, when she's in the house. She
830
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:55.920
never walked anywhere, She ran everywhere.
831
00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:00.559
And Caitlyn ran headlong into the relationship with Charles Brian
832
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.920
that summer of twenty sixteen. One of their regular date
833
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.239
spots was at the park by Grapevine Lake, where this
834
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.880
picture was taken. When Karen learned about the relationship, she
835
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.760
asked Caitlyn to show her a picture of him.
836
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:23.840
I got this feeling just deep inside to my bones,
837
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.360
an evil feeling. And I said, he's going to hurt you,
838
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:30.199
He's going to do something bad.
839
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:31.320
Wow.
840
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:34.559
And she's like, Oh, he's nice, he's good to me.
841
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:36.440
He makes me feel like an adult.
842
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:40.119
Were you thinking to yourself, you're eighteen, you're too.
843
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:40.800
Young to know.
844
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:45.360
Yes, But I didn't want to insult her.
845
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:49.639
Within weeks, Caitlyn was having serious doubts of her own
846
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:50.440
about Brian.
847
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:54.280
That's when I started to see these warning signs that
848
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:57.920
he was manipulative. He was a bit of an artist, narcissist.
849
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.360
He thought very highly of himself. He would say things like, oh,
850
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.519
you'll never find anyone better than me. It was toxic
851
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:08.039
and he was toxic.
852
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:12.920
In mid August twenty sixteen, Caitlyn broke up with Brian.
853
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.679
She thought that was the last she'd see of him,
854
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.360
but the next day he showed up uninvited at her
855
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:21.440
mother's house.
856
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.519
And somehow he convinced me to get back with him.
857
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:27.320
He was trying to say, oh, I can work on
858
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:31.679
this and I can be better, and making all these promises.
859
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:36.239
But Caitlyn realized she wasn't interested in promises.
860
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.199
That was one of the things that my mom taught me.
861
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.480
People do not change. You can't change someone. At that point,
862
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.760
I was just waiting for the perfect time to end things.
863
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:50.440
A little more than a week later, after Caitlyn moved
864
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.480
away to school, she told Brian it was over again.
865
00:50:55.599 --> 00:51:00.159
Later that night, police found him on campus.
866
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:03.199
By sheer coincidence, I had made a traffic stop and
867
00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:04.599
he was driving that vehicle.
868
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.360
Captain Jeremy Polk was then a lieutenant for the unt
869
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:12.480
campus Police. He pulled Brian over early in the morning
870
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:13.840
of August twenty fourth.
871
00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:16.239
I thought he was an intoxicated driver by the way
872
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:18.039
he was driving, and that was my focus.
873
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:20.239
So right now i'ma have to place you on, you know,
874
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.239
a race, so kid, you just may see.
875
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:23.920
It's all good.
876
00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:27.679
Bryant was not over the legal limit. He was charged
877
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.440
with a few outstanding traffic tickets and they let him go.
878
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:36.480
Later that same day, he was back on Caitlin's campus again.
879
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:39.679
He actually knocked on the door of my dorm room.
880
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.719
He didn't know prior to where I lived, and he said, oh,
881
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:44.840
your name was on the door.
882
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:46.360
Did that creep you out?
883
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.760
It did? At that point I was scared.
884
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:53.000
Caitlin got him out of there and called campus police.
885
00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:57.039
Captain Polk recognized Bryan's name on the report and went
886
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.880
along to interview Caitlin the next day.
887
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:04.400
She told us things like, I just did not like
888
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.639
the way Charles spoke to me. I did not like
889
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:08.800
the way he treated me, and I made that choice
890
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:10.519
then and there. You know, I would do everything I
891
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.119
could to help her with this situation.
892
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:18.400
Polk issued a no trespass order banning Charles Bryant from
893
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:23.360
the UNT campus, but once again Brian she would not
894
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.320
take no for an answer.
895
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.039
It's the biggest fear I have as a police officer
896
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:33.400
sometimes is emotion, because emotion drives people to do things
897
00:52:33.400 --> 00:52:48.760
you would never imagine.
898
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:54.559
It was my first stay there, and he walked through
899
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:58.039
the door, and my heart just dropped to the bottom
900
00:52:58.079 --> 00:52:58.760
of my stomach.
901
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.920
It was August thirty first, twenty sixteen, a week since
902
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:06.920
Charles Bryan had tracked Caitlyn Mathis down at.
903
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:07.840
Her new dorm.
904
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.079
Now he was invading her space again, coming into her
905
00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:14.719
a new restaurant on her first day of work.
906
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:17.239
Well, I was like, I just want you to leave.
907
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:18.800
What did he say to that?
908
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.519
He didn't really say anything. He looked upset. My new
909
00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:25.960
coworkers they were like, yeah, he was here yesterday looking
910
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:26.239
for you.
911
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:32.280
Caitlyn asked her manager to keep Brian out, but her
912
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:34.599
manager said there was nothing he could do.
913
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.360
I can't work here. I don't feel safe enough to
914
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:39.880
work here.
915
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.199
Caitlyn went back to her old job a half hour's
916
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:47.000
drive away. Her mother found it all hard to watch
917
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:48.000
from a distance.
918
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:52.800
I said come home. It was my motherly instinct to
919
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:55.599
protect her, and in order to protect her, I had
920
00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:58.280
to have her with me, but.
921
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:02.400
Caitlyn thought she'd be safe in her door. A week later,
922
00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:05.719
on September sixth, what would have been their three month anniversary,
923
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:08.880
Bryant was back yet again.
924
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:13.079
He showed up to my dorm, knocked on my door,
925
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.000
and at this point I was shaking. I'm all alone.
926
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:19.960
I actually hid in my sweet mate's closet.
927
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:21.199
You hit Yes.
928
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.239
When I was on the phone with the police, They're like,
929
00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:25.559
we can't hear you. You need to speak up, and
930
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:27.280
I was just afraid that he was going to hear
931
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.159
my voice. I did hear him say, Caitlin, I know
932
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:32.119
you're in there, and just open up. I have something
933
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:35.599
for you. And I'm like, God, what what do you
934
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.119
have for me? I don't want it.
935
00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:44.800
Bryant left flowers, then the two page letter. When police arrived,
936
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:46.320
he was gone.
937
00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:49.800
I had heard him say he it's Charles sampsoning for you.
938
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:51.039
Oh for sure it was him.
939
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.760
Yeah, I know it's here, twenty seven myself before forty.
940
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:57.880
Three police found him outside ten minutes later.
941
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:01.519
Yes, we'll hear question now.
942
00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:02.960
In running clothes.
943
00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.480
And arrested him for trespassing.
944
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:07.920
So you know you're not supposed to be up that.
945
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:13.760
Brian posted bond and was released within hours. Although Caitlyn
946
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:17.559
had already blocked him on her phone, email, and social media,
947
00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:21.239
he created a new email address and wrote to her
948
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:24.800
later that same day. Here I am heartbroken and with
949
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:28.599
a criminal record for bringing the girl I love flowers.
950
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:32.000
That's when it became really serious for me. If an
951
00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:35.880
actual physical arrest doesn't stop the behavior, then you're you
952
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:36.920
know something is wrong.
953
00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:42.599
Captain Polpe helped Caitlyn get an emergency protective order, and
954
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.760
because Brian had kept trying to reach her after his arresting,
955
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.800
Charles Polk had his officers go to Bryan's house the
956
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:55.840
next day and charge him yet again, this time for stalking.
957
00:55:56.599 --> 00:55:59.360
This was his third arrest in fourteen days.
958
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.119
I told him if he continued to communicate with Caitlin,
959
00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:07.360
I would use every email, I would use every text message,
960
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.960
I would use every phone call as a reason to
961
00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:11.039
have him re arrested.
962
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:15.000
Two days later, Bryant posted a five thousand dollars bond
963
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:16.639
and got out of jail.
964
00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:21.760
He was telling his roommate that I was the crazy
965
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.800
one in this relationship. So all of his friends were
966
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.480
kind of coming at me and they were like, why
967
00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:30.920
you need to like drop these charges against him.
968
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:35.119
By September thirteenth, Bryant was back in Denton, just a
969
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.679
half mile from Kaitlyn's dorm, in an area she had
970
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:41.000
told him about back when they were still dating.
971
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:44.039
I was talking about going up to Fries Street and
972
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:45.440
like meeting new people.
973
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:48.639
Bryant went to a Frey Street public house that night
974
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:53.199
at about seven pm. An hour later, Jackie Vandergriff walked in,
975
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.920
asked about a job, and ended up in a conversation
976
00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:02.960
with the bartender and Charles bryn About forty five minutes later,
977
00:57:03.079 --> 00:57:06.440
Jackie posted a message on her Twitter, I'm glad I
978
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.280
decided to get off tender and walk to a bar.
979
00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:13.159
Jackie's friend, Jackie Todd.
980
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:18.960
Jackie was a very social person. Whenever she went out,
981
00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:23.239
she would make friends with everybody. And it wasn't even flirty,
982
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.760
it wasn't anything, you know. She was talking to the bartender,
983
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:27.920
talking to other people.
984
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.679
At about nine o'clock, Jackie left with Bryant, had the bartender.
985
00:57:33.559 --> 00:57:37.039
She and Bryant went to another bar nearby and started
986
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:41.119
talking to a group of women. By nine forty five,
987
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:46.480
it was raining and everyone was headed out. Jackie left
988
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:47.880
with Charles Bryant.
989
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.400
I feel like she felt comfortable enough with him that
990
00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:54.159
night because she had been hanging out with him for
991
00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:57.159
so long that she was like, hey, well whatever, he's
992
00:57:57.199 --> 00:57:59.280
just going to drop me off. It's not that far
993
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:00.920
and I'll be good.
994
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:06.920
Once in his car, Bryant stopped at a convenience store.
995
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:11.840
This was the last time Jackie Vandergriff was seen alive.
996
00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:16.320
The day after she was found dead, there was a
997
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:19.719
new post on her Twitter. Never knew I could feel
998
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:20.000
like this.
999
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:22.679
It was just really bizarre.
1000
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.480
Police suspected it was a message from her killer, and
1001
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:28.800
they knew they had to move quickly to id de
1002
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:31.920
man Jackie had been with. They had some luck when
1003
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:34.840
they tracked down the women Jackie met that night.
1004
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:38.920
One of the friends that was with her had gotten
1005
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:43.199
a business card from this person because he was a
1006
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:44.280
fitness instructor.
1007
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:49.679
Now the Grapevine Police had Charles Bryant's name. They learned
1008
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:51.639
about that restraining order.
1009
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:56.320
So in my eyes, that played into him as being
1010
00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:57.320
a good suspect.
1011
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:02.559
Grapevind Police old Captain Polk, who was in the middle
1012
00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:03.480
of a road race.
1013
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:06.719
The first thing he told me was Charles Bryant was
1014
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:10.199
their main suspect in Jackie's murder, and I immediately just
1015
00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:12.000
sat down on a park bench in the middle of
1016
00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:12.440
the race.
1017
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:17.440
It floored me Bryant was emerging as a strong suspect,
1018
00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:21.920
but Grapevine police did not have physical evidence connecting him
1019
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:26.239
to Jackie's death, So for now, Bryant was free and
1020
00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:29.280
Polk was worried about what he might do next.
1021
00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:32.000
I call Caitlin and I just asked, where are you?
1022
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:34.400
I was like, does this have to do with the
1023
00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.599
murder that happened in grape Vine? And He's like, I
1024
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:42.280
can't tell. I can't specify that to you, Caitlin, but
1025
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:43.639
are you safe right now?
1026
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:44.920
And what did you say?
1027
00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:46.440
I said, I think so.
1028
00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:52.239
She might have been wrong. In the days after Jackie's murder,
1029
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.679
Charles Bryant sent Caitlin several emails, including this picture, writing
1030
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:00.920
on it first kiss under this tree, once.
1031
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:01.519
Upon a time.
1032
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.440
That photo was taken at Grapevine Lake.
1033
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:08.159
He might have taken that picture that same day that
1034
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:09.159
Jackie was killed.
1035
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:27.440
It was September twenty sixteen, and Caitlin mathis Charles Bryan's
1036
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.920
sex's girlfriend was very worried he might have been involved
1037
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:34.960
in the brutal murder at Grapevine Lake just days before.
1038
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:38.440
I was waiting for more news to come out, because
1039
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:41.880
at that point they hadn't even arrested him yet.
1040
01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:43.920
Were you worried he was going to come after you?
1041
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:48.039
I was. I thought that's exactly what he was going
1042
01:00:48.079 --> 01:00:48.280
to do.
1043
01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:53.519
The emails in picture Brian had recently sent Caitlin were
1044
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:55.639
proof that he was still thinking about her in the
1045
01:00:55.719 --> 01:00:59.480
days after Jackie was killed, but they were also proof
1046
01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:00.559
of something else.
1047
01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:04.760
It was prohibited for Charles to communicate with her in
1048
01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:07.039
any manner, and if he did, he would have been
1049
01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:08.000
violating that order.
1050
01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.800
Captain Polk thought they could use those violations to help
1051
01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:15.719
the Grapevine police. He didn't have enough to make an
1052
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:16.960
arrest yet.
1053
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:19.239
So I told the detective, we can get a warrant
1054
01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:22.079
signed on some evidence we just got and at least,
1055
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.440
you know, get him off the street.
1056
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.519
You go about Charles, you go to Dean Charleston, Okay.
1057
01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:32.960
Charles Bryant was arrested on September eighteenth for violating Caitlin's
1058
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:37.079
restraining order. Grapevine detectives were hoping they'd soon find more
1059
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.039
evidence connecting him to Jackie's death.
1060
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.159
He's brought to the Grayvine Police Department for an interview,
1061
01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:48.440
and right away he's beginning to distance himself from having
1062
01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:51.719
any almost any interaction with Jackie.
1063
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:56.440
Recognize who she is, he said, a bar.
1064
01:01:57.320 --> 01:02:00.719
And at the same time we began serving search warrant
1065
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:02.079
for his residence.
1066
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:09.639
What can you tell me about her? That's about it.
1067
01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:12.480
It had been four days since Jackie's body was found,
1068
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.519
plenty of time to dispose of any possible evidence, but
1069
01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:19.840
Captain Luna at Grapevine p D says they found a
1070
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:24.840
lot at Bryant's home, including a large military style knife.
1071
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:25.840
You know what.
1072
01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:29.000
The purse was found in there too.
1073
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:32.360
Brian had no way to answer for any of it,
1074
01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:36.400
including two more items police found while he was in custody,
1075
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:40.800
video of him buying a shovel the night Jackie disappeared,
1076
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.800
and a kittie pool missing from his backyard that matched
1077
01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:47.320
the one Jackie's body was found in.
1078
01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:50.199
We have video of you with this girl.
1079
01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:52.119
I should have been here at the bar.
1080
01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:57.800
You're walking around Walmart at four o'clock and along and buying.
1081
01:02:57.559 --> 01:03:01.199
A shovel, uncomfortably, He's found.
1082
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:06.480
Dead in a pool that came from your backyard.
1083
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:08.719
He even got to the point at the end of
1084
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:12.000
his interview with our detective where he said, well, I
1085
01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:14.840
must have done it. I don't remember doing anything.
1086
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:16.880
Everything points me it's like I had to.
1087
01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.760
Have done it, and open and shutcase. Not even close.
1088
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:26.320
Although there was overwhelming evidence that Brian had disposed of
1089
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:30.000
Jackie's body, there was no evidence yet that confirmed how
1090
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.199
Jackie had died, way that Bryan had killed her.
1091
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:35.920
And that's when they reached out to me and asked
1092
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:37.880
if I could come in and spend some time with
1093
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.360
him and interview him and see what I could.
1094
01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:43.960
Get, because you have an expertise in dealing with this
1095
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.159
kind of personality.
1096
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:48.519
Right, this is kind of my calling.
1097
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:51.719
Jim Holland is the senior member of an elite team
1098
01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:56.239
of Texas Rangers, a select division of the Texas State Police.
1099
01:03:56.440 --> 01:04:01.039
He specializes in interviewing some of the country's most prolificers and
1100
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:07.000
analyzing their thoughts and Charles Bryant seemed to fit the
1101
01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:12.440
bill Jackie's body had been dismembered before being set on fire.
1102
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:16.559
How do you begin to understand a mind that would
1103
01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:17.119
do that.
1104
01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:20.599
A lot of these people actually want to tell you.
1105
01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:22.239
They want to tell someone.
1106
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.599
At first, Bryant kept to his claim that he didn't
1107
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:27.480
remember a thing.
1108
01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:30.320
Yeah, it's crazy, they don't remember me in this guote.
1109
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:34.760
The idea that he doesn't remember doing it. No, it's
1110
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.000
absolute nonsense.
1111
01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:41.400
So you knew Charles Bryant remembered exactly what had happened.
1112
01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:45.719
Oh, yes, absolutely, And your job was just to pull
1113
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:46.400
that out of him.
1114
01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:49.360
Right, you know you're not a violin due you haven't
1115
01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:51.400
haven't really been in trouble.
1116
01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:54.559
Hollin says his strategy was to try to make friends
1117
01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:56.679
with Bryant and get him talking.
1118
01:04:57.239 --> 01:04:59.679
You obviously work out. I mean, you're stud right.
1119
01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:02.239
You don't want him to look at you as a
1120
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:04.320
law enforcement officer. You want him to think of you
1121
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:07.360
as a friend, a campandre, a drinking buddy. You know,
1122
01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:10.599
you kind of go back to what two boys would
1123
01:05:10.599 --> 01:05:12.320
talk about in the high school locker room, you know,
1124
01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.480
about the girl they kissed on Friday night.
1125
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:20.800
You don't have any issues with girls, and Holland suggested
1126
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:24.960
possible scenarios to see if Brian would take it from there.
1127
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:30.280
Okay, so something happens, Sam, there's there's a snap, and
1128
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:31.639
we need to figure out what that is.
1129
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:35.639
And maybe you know she got married. Maybe she's giving.
1130
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:38.159
You all the signals and then cut you off. I mean,
1131
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.280
there could be all kinds of different things going on here, right,
1132
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:47.480
I mean chicks, right, you know, chicks. Now, as we're
1133
01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:50.800
going through the interview, there's I'm watching him. I'm, I guess,
1134
01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:54.320
in a way a human lie detector. I'm I'm reading him,
1135
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.840
and I'm throwing things at him in which I know
1136
01:05:57.039 --> 01:06:00.320
the answer, and I'm looking for his responses, whether they're
1137
01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:02.440
false or true.
1138
01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:08.239
Under the pretense of helping Bryant remember what happened, Holland
1139
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:10.719
suggested they do a memory exercise.
1140
01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:13.519
What we're gonna do is these mind exercises, which means
1141
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:14.920
we're gonna move back in time.
1142
01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:19.000
Bryant, who first claimed he didn't know who Jackie was,
1143
01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:22.519
then seemed to remember her. He said he could see
1144
01:06:22.519 --> 01:06:23.760
her coming into the bar.
1145
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:28.039
Think she was looking for a child, I suppose.
1146
01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:29.159
And offering her a ride.
1147
01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:31.960
It makes sense of ning. Probably would offer you right home.
1148
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:34.760
There's tons of things in this that I can.
1149
01:06:34.679 --> 01:06:38.440
Tell you right over a pizza. As Holland tried to
1150
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:42.679
steer Bryant to confess. He probed about a possible.
1151
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:47.559
Motive, but what does everyone want to know? And yeah,
1152
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:49.280
why and who's the only one who could tells that?
1153
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:54.159
Holland eventually cut to the chase and asked if what
1154
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.320
happened with Jackie was really all about Caitlin.
1155
01:06:58.239 --> 01:06:59.880
Is there a time that you pictured her as a
1156
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:02.480
scirl friend, a digital or does anything like that come
1157
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:02.960
into play.
1158
01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:09.880
The level of nonsense that came out of his mouth
1159
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:13.760
at different points about that was just astonishing.
1160
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:18.639
Do you think Charles Bryant looks around the bar and
1161
01:07:18.760 --> 01:07:22.679
sees Jacqueline vandergriff, Ah, she looks like Caitlin.
1162
01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:25.719
It wouldn't surprise me if he actually mistook her at first,
1163
01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:28.599
You know, that saw her from behind and thought, man,
1164
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.119
you know my ex is here. I think in his
1165
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:35.079
mind that whole night. I think that's what he pictured.
1166
01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:43.039
After the murder. Right after the murder, he took Jackie's
1167
01:07:43.079 --> 01:08:00.280
phone and used it to add me on Facebook.
1168
01:08:01.159 --> 01:08:04.440
When Texas Ranger Jim Holland was brought in to interrogate
1169
01:08:04.519 --> 01:08:07.880
Charles Bryant, the nature of the crime made him wonder
1170
01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:12.280
if Bryan's brain was wired like the serial killers he'd encountered.
1171
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.880
In what way is the mind of a serial killer
1172
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.279
different from common criminal.
1173
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:21.960
You know, generally people like that tend to be sociopathic
1174
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:26.159
or psychopathic mindsets, and it's just a different game. Psychopath
1175
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:29.079
would be someone who's basically born with a scar on
1176
01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:33.479
their brain. Then a sociopathic mindset is something that society
1177
01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:37.680
has brought on, something happened to them that changed their psyche.
1178
01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:40.319
Something Maybe it happened in his childhood.
1179
01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:44.600
Christy Dixon got a glimpse of Charles bryant psyche firsthand.
1180
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:47.920
She met him on a dating app the year before
1181
01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:49.680
Jackie Vandergriff's death.
1182
01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:54.000
He seemed pretty quiet and reserved, almost like he was shy.
1183
01:08:54.279 --> 01:08:58.119
By the second or third time that we were hanging out,
1184
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.000
I noticed he was getting pretty attached pretty quickly, and
1185
01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:05.760
I just was not there. It was very casual to me.
1186
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:10.199
After she broke things off, he continued to pursue her.
1187
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:14.079
Brian even told her that he loved her. Christie says
1188
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:16.640
they'd never even shared a kiss.
1189
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:20.119
It was a little too much, too soon, too vast.
1190
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:24.079
I work with abuse children, and that to me kind
1191
01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:24.760
of stuck out.
1192
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:28.520
Christy says that's when she asked Brian about his childhood.
1193
01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.800
He told her he had been molested, the claim that
1194
01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:34.600
forty eight hours could not independently verify.
1195
01:09:35.199 --> 01:09:38.760
I remember thinking that makes sense. I'm not a psychologist
1196
01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.000
or anything, but his behavior sort of came off to
1197
01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:44.399
me as maybe an abuse child or someone who is
1198
01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:50.520
just needing that extra love that most people probably aren't seeking.
1199
01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:56.079
Still, Christy thought he was harmless and stayed in touch.
1200
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:58.920
I thought he was just a really nice guy and
1201
01:09:58.920 --> 01:09:59.880
felt sorry for him.
1202
01:10:00.199 --> 01:10:01.079
I'm not an angry guy.
1203
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:02.159
I'm not aggressive it.
1204
01:10:02.279 --> 01:10:06.239
As Ranger Holland continued his interrogation, he wanted to see
1205
01:10:06.279 --> 01:10:10.039
if Bryant would answer the key questions how did Jackie
1206
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:14.479
Vandergriff die? Her autopsy didn't provide many answers.
1207
01:10:15.159 --> 01:10:17.359
There's a lot we didn't know. We didn't know where
1208
01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:19.720
it occurred, we didn't know exactly how it broke down,
1209
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:21.000
and so that's what Michael was.
1210
01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:24.560
Holland wondered if the crime had a sexual element, but
1211
01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:28.159
initially Bryant denied anything sexual took place.
1212
01:10:28.760 --> 01:10:32.680
I recall having sex. You don't, no, no, let recall
1213
01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:33.359
having sex.
1214
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.520
After three more hours of interrogation, Bryant said they did
1215
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:38.199
have sex.
1216
01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:39.640
Kinky sex.
1217
01:10:40.279 --> 01:10:43.680
According to Bryant, Jackie wanted to be choked with an
1218
01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:47.119
oversized zip tie that just happened to be in his car.
1219
01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:50.520
She didn't fight you in any way when you're putting on.
1220
01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:55.199
The consensual sex aspect of it. Was was one of
1221
01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:57.760
those things that no, I felt stronger that he was
1222
01:10:57.840 --> 01:10:58.640
lying about.
1223
01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:02.319
And Bryant also claimed that neither he nor Jackie had
1224
01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:04.359
tightened the zip tie intentionally.
1225
01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:07.439
Okay, so you think he's tightened up on its home
1226
01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:10.439
Basically I could have had a snag on something.
1227
01:11:11.319 --> 01:11:20.760
Okay, that's what happened. It's just not responsive shake he.
1228
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:27.039
Are you just thinking this is a complete and total lie.
1229
01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:29.520
Yeah, it's total fabrication. Did he kill her?
1230
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:29.880
Yes?
1231
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:34.319
Absolutely. When you deal with these people, it's so rare
1232
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:36.159
that you would sit down with them and they would
1233
01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:39.479
just tell you a to is e. This is what occurred,
1234
01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:42.640
And they're always going to leave out things that make
1235
01:11:42.680 --> 01:11:45.119
them look really bad. In other words, there's an excuse.
1236
01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:47.000
I'm not a bad person. I didn't mean for this
1237
01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:48.880
to happen. It was an accident.
1238
01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:53.840
Although Bryant was evasive about how Jackie died as Holland
1239
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:57.680
led him through the memory exercise, Bryant went into gruesome
1240
01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:00.720
detail about how he disposed of her body.
1241
01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:06.680
Ken, what do you see in the pool? Which is
1242
01:12:08.079 --> 01:12:14.560
right now? Tell me exactly what you see occurring after that? True?
1243
01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:16.520
And what happens next?
1244
01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:20.399
Put it on fire?
1245
01:12:21.560 --> 01:12:22.000
The fire?
1246
01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:26.479
Why do you burn the body? It's for evidence.
1247
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:31.079
Even if he couldn't admit to murder, Bryant seemed a
1248
01:12:31.119 --> 01:12:35.640
waiver between denial and acceptance, at one point conceding that
1249
01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:39.880
the ebony showed he had to have done it, and
1250
01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:45.399
if I mean. After an intense six hour interrogation and
1251
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:49.880
with mounting evidence, Charles Bryant was finally charged with Jackie
1252
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:56.279
Vandergriff's murder. Christy Dixon could not believe the news that night.
1253
01:12:56.359 --> 01:12:59.560
I actually was scared to go to sleep. I had nightmares.
1254
01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:02.000
He had never threatened me before, but just the fact
1255
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:05.720
that someone that I felt that I knew had.
1256
01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:07.119
Murdered someone potentially.
1257
01:13:07.399 --> 01:13:08.479
I was terrified.
1258
01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:13.680
For Caitlyn Mathis, her worst fears were confirmed, and when
1259
01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:16.439
she tried to learn more about the woman Brian killed,
1260
01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:20.560
she made a shocking discovery on Facebook.
1261
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:25.680
I looked up Jackie Vandergriff and I realized, oh my god,
1262
01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:26.680
I'm already friends with her.
1263
01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:32.800
Caitlyn says that digital friendship began after Jackie's death. You
1264
01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:38.359
got a friend request from Jackie Vandergriff. Yes, Caitlin believes
1265
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:42.319
that Facebook friend request could only have come from one person,
1266
01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:50.760
Charles Bryan. That really sounds diabolical. It was Brian pleaded
1267
01:13:50.840 --> 01:13:54.680
not guilty to Jackie's murder. His defense was the same
1268
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:57.439
story he told Ranger Holland.
1269
01:13:57.600 --> 01:14:01.720
These two young people met, the consumed a lot of alcohol.
1270
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:06.800
Our position as they had sex, kinky sex, albeit and
1271
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:07.399
she died.
1272
01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:13.079
Bryan's court appointed defense attorney, Glennis McGinty says Jackie Vandergriff's
1273
01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:16.880
death was a tragic accident. Are you telling me there's
1274
01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:22.000
no evidence that Charles Bryant killed Jackie Vandergriff, not direct evidence.
1275
01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:27.439
Prosecutors Lucas Allen and Anna Hernandez believe the evidence they
1276
01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:30.680
did have would be enough, but they also knew that
1277
01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:34.840
most jurors want to motive, and they weren't sure they'd
1278
01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:37.920
be able to tell this jury why they thought Jackie
1279
01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:38.600
was targeted.
1280
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:42.039
You have to wonder what is driving this person to
1281
01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:42.880
do something like that?
1282
01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:46.800
In your minds, there is no doubt that the murder
1283
01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:52.560
of Jackie Vandergriff is connected to the stalking of Caitlin Mathis.
1284
01:14:52.840 --> 01:14:55.800
Yes. I think we believe that definitely. She might have
1285
01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:59.319
just been victim number one, with Caitlin being victim number two.
1286
01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:03.920
To help prove this, the prosecution was hoping that judge
1287
01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:08.039
would allow Caitlin to testify against her ex boyfriend turned
1288
01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:10.279
stalker in open court.
1289
01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:13.119
I felt sick.
1290
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:32.199
Jackie was the most special person I know. I'll never
1291
01:15:32.239 --> 01:15:33.439
meet someone like her again.
1292
01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:37.399
In April twenty eighteen, a year and a half after
1293
01:15:37.520 --> 01:15:42.520
Jackie Vandergriff's untimely death, Charles Bryant was standing trial for
1294
01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:46.399
her murder her friend Jackie. Tan could not bring herself
1295
01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:47.239
to be there.
1296
01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:51.800
I wanted to go, but I'm going to be honest,
1297
01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.800
I couldn't look at him.
1298
01:15:56.239 --> 01:15:58.680
Charles Bryant would have to answer for a long list
1299
01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:02.199
of items the prosecute fu should had collected, including that
1300
01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:06.079
giant zip tie, the shovely purchase, the knight Jackie died,
1301
01:16:06.680 --> 01:16:09.399
and that large knife which police believe he used to
1302
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:12.479
cut up her body, all found at his house.
1303
01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:17.560
This is something that you pray every night does not
1304
01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:19.880
happen to your child when they go off to school.
1305
01:16:20.399 --> 01:16:23.399
Investigators had also found a stun gun in his car
1306
01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:27.600
with Jackie's DNA on it, but it appears Jackie was
1307
01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:31.600
spared at least one hor Prosecutors Ana Hernandez and Lucas
1308
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:35.079
Allen said the medical examiner was able to run tests
1309
01:16:35.079 --> 01:16:39.079
on Jackie's remains and found no evidence of sexual assault.
1310
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:42.880
There was zero evidence to support that they had any
1311
01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:44.159
type of sexual encounter.
1312
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:48.640
Prosecutors say this undermines Bryant's story that this was kinky
1313
01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:54.000
sex gone wrong. His attorney Glennis McGuinty, How could they
1314
01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:56.760
have had sex if there's no evidence.
1315
01:16:56.760 --> 01:17:00.760
No evidence to the degree of no sperm found in her,
1316
01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:04.039
That doesn't mean they didn't have some type of consensual
1317
01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:06.079
sexual encounter.
1318
01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:08.119
She likes it, making it out.
1319
01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:12.760
Prosecutors chose not to play that interrogation tape for the jury,
1320
01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:15.600
which meant Bryant would have to take the stand if
1321
01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:19.079
he wanted jurors to hear his version of events. He
1322
01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:24.000
elected not to. Shouldn't he be explaining to the jury
1323
01:17:24.119 --> 01:17:26.079
why he's not at fault for her death?
1324
01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:29.800
And then that flies in the face of our constitutional rights.
1325
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:34.159
But the defense knows it has an uphill battle to
1326
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:37.279
convince a jury that Brian is not guilty of murder
1327
01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:41.439
while admitting he disposed of Jackie's body. If he says
1328
01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:44.640
it was just an accident, why didn't he call for help?
1329
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:45.239
Sure?
1330
01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:46.239
Fair question.
1331
01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:52.119
Intoxicated, panicked, and his mind would not process all of
1332
01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:55.399
that to make a rational decision that you or I
1333
01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:56.760
would have made called the police.
1334
01:17:57.520 --> 01:18:01.960
But Bryant went further than simply discard Jackie's body, much
1335
01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:06.640
much further, and prosecutors wanted the jury to hear their theory.
1336
01:18:07.279 --> 01:18:12.319
A huge piece of that story was the stalking.
1337
01:18:14.520 --> 01:18:17.239
But before the jury could hear from Caitlyn, the judge
1338
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:19.960
would have to rule on whether or not to allow
1339
01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:25.720
this evidence. Local TV cameras were there when, without the
1340
01:18:25.800 --> 01:18:29.960
jury present, Caitlyn took the stand and faced her ex.
1341
01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:33.199
I was disgusted just to see his face.
1342
01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:34.720
Did he look at you?
1343
01:18:34.760 --> 01:18:35.520
Did you meet eyes?
1344
01:18:36.199 --> 01:18:38.399
At one point we had to when they made me
1345
01:18:39.640 --> 01:18:43.600
describe to the court what he was wearing, and he
1346
01:18:43.720 --> 01:18:45.279
just had this smirk on his face.
1347
01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:48.199
There's nothing really that can prepare you for that, is there?
1348
01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:48.680
No?
1349
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:52.119
The second I walked out those doors, I started bawling.
1350
01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:57.800
In the end, the judge ruled against Caitlyn being able
1351
01:18:57.840 --> 01:18:59.319
to tell her story to the jury.
1352
01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:01.960
It was definitely a real blow to us.
1353
01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:03.680
That was the right decision.
1354
01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:07.520
Why he had not been convicted of anything with Caitlin.
1355
01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:12.199
As the jury went out to deliberate, the defense was hopeful.
1356
01:19:12.439 --> 01:19:15.520
I don't believe that they could prove that he murdered her.
1357
01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:18.439
I don't think that they proved that.
1358
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:22.079
But would the jury agree? They were out for a
1359
01:19:22.119 --> 01:19:25.760
little over two hours, and even without hearing Caitlyn's story,
1360
01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:27.199
will we the jury find.
1361
01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:30.279
The defendant Charles be and Bryant Junior guilty of the
1362
01:19:30.279 --> 01:19:31.199
offensive murder.
1363
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:37.359
Charles Bryant was found guilty of Jackie Vandergriff's murder and dismemberment.
1364
01:19:37.960 --> 01:19:41.199
To your way of thinking, was justice done?
1365
01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:42.119
Yes?
1366
01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:47.039
I knew she was up there and said thank you.
1367
01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:52.159
Because prosecutors had no evidence Bryant committed another crime at
1368
01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:55.439
the same time as Jackie's murder, like rape or kidnapping,
1369
01:19:55.960 --> 01:19:59.159
he was not eligible for the death penalty. He was
1370
01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:02.960
sentenced to life.
1371
01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:04.119
As terrible as it insist to say, but I wanted
1372
01:20:04.119 --> 01:20:04.960
the death penalty.
1373
01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:09.600
Under Texas law, Bryant could be eligible for parole after
1374
01:20:09.680 --> 01:20:14.319
thirty years. Caitlyn says she feels like she's still looking
1375
01:20:14.359 --> 01:20:17.159
over her shoulder and always will be.
1376
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.720
I fear that when he gets out, he'll come and
1377
01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:24.079
find me and do something to either me or someone
1378
01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:27.039
that I love. That's my biggest fear.
1379
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:32.800
Ever since this happened, Caitlyn and her mother have been
1380
01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:35.159
thinking about Jackie and her.
1381
01:20:35.039 --> 01:20:38.840
Family this whole time. I wanted to reach out, but
1382
01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:40.319
I didn't know how they felt.
1383
01:20:40.760 --> 01:20:46.279
Nearly two years after Jackie died, they finally met her grandmother.
1384
01:20:46.640 --> 01:20:50.039
Bless her heart. She immediately came up to us and
1385
01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:52.720
too Caitlin, and hugged her and said, I've been so
1386
01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:55.520
worried about you these past two years.
1387
01:20:56.199 --> 01:21:02.239
Wow, Karen, was this the part.
1388
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:02.560
That gets you?
1389
01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:10.239
He took away their little girl and the pain of
1390
01:21:10.399 --> 01:21:16.079
the fall in their eyes. I could feel their pain, And.
1391
01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:21.840
Yet the grandmother was telling Caitlin she was worried about Caitlin. Yes,
1392
01:21:22.399 --> 01:21:23.960
you sound like very special people.
1393
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:24.960
They are.
1394
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:33.079
Caitlyn says she struggled with the fact that she survived
1395
01:21:33.479 --> 01:21:40.359
and Jackie did not. This so easily could have been you.
1396
01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:45.800
In some days, I wish it was. It's just the
1397
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:49.680
guilt that eats me up. Sometimes I would have easily
1398
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:51.840
had taken her place if I had the chance.
1399
01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:09.600
Forty eight hours.
1400
01:22:10.119 --> 01:23:00.079
Don't miss an episode.
1401
01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:01.760
I don't think the grieving ever.
1402
01:23:01.720 --> 01:23:09.880
Ends, it evolves. We've been wanting to tell Amy's story
1403
01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:13.399
and just felt like we weren't ready before, but now
1404
01:23:13.399 --> 01:23:14.640
we feel like we can do it.
1405
01:23:16.920 --> 01:23:19.199
I'm so proud of her and what she's accomplished.
1406
01:23:21.439 --> 01:23:22.760
Oh my goodness.
1407
01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:32.840
Fire eater, dancer, photographer, model, therapist.
1408
01:23:35.279 --> 01:23:36.520
She wanted to fix people.
1409
01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:38.439
You might want to speak to this woman.
1410
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:40.279
Doctor Amy harwork.
1411
01:23:40.119 --> 01:23:42.279
As a licensed marriage and foundly therapist. I see all
1412
01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:44.760
kinds of different things when your anxiety, depression, change of
1413
01:23:44.840 --> 01:23:47.039
life stuff, breakups, moves, things like that.
1414
01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:50.439
Amy helped me so much.
1415
01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:52.840
I had gone to see Amy.
1416
01:23:52.960 --> 01:23:57.399
Because I had dealt with a relationship that got very
1417
01:23:57.399 --> 01:24:01.359
out of control and turned into a very serious, stoken case.
1418
01:24:02.039 --> 01:24:05.119
Jealousy can become dangerous and even lead to violence. It
1419
01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:05.840
can lead to death.
1420
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:11.800
I want to read the standard to four thirty four.
1421
01:24:12.560 --> 01:24:13.920
Somebody just attack my roommate.
1422
01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:14.960
We gonnare.
1423
01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:22.520
I just was woken up by screaming, like blood curdling scream,
1424
01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:25.560
and then then I realized that the screaming wasn't stopping
1425
01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:30.159
or slowing down, yelled up, you know, Amy, and I
1426
01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:33.359
heard choking. Right after that, I knew we were in trouble.
1427
01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:37.079
This is for real, this is really happening. I knew
1428
01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:38.920
we needed help, Like I'm going to have to make
1429
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:39.720
a break for it.
1430
01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:46.399
When the first responders first got that call, where did
1431
01:24:46.439 --> 01:24:46.640
they go?
1432
01:24:46.840 --> 01:24:49.079
They came right here to this house.
1433
01:24:49.239 --> 01:24:51.159
Hey, sir, I can help you.
1434
01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:53.279
Was attacked.
1435
01:24:53.319 --> 01:24:53.960
I know what I heard.
1436
01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:54.399
I heard it.
1437
01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:55.079
She's screaming.
1438
01:24:55.119 --> 01:24:56.039
She was thrown to the ground.
1439
01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:57.239
Okay, hold on, okay.
1440
01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:01.239
Michael Herman was out here. He's frantic, he's nervous.
1441
01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:04.000
They didn't know what to think of this guy, right right.
1442
01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:07.079
They had no idea of who he was, why he
1443
01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:09.880
was involved in all this. They knew he was rambling on.
1444
01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:12.039
They had some doubts about him.
1445
01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:15.039
Originally, do me a favorite, Do me a favorite?
1446
01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:17.159
Calm down, calmed down, other than your roommate.
1447
01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:18.359
Is there anybody else inside the dout?
1448
01:25:18.439 --> 01:25:19.159
No, I don't know.
1449
01:25:21.199 --> 01:25:23.399
And I'm walking them around to the back of the
1450
01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:29.239
house and it's dark back there. There's some light, but
1451
01:25:29.279 --> 01:25:30.439
it's pretty dark back there.
1452
01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:32.560
And when they get around to the back, now they
1453
01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:37.079
can see a body on the on the ground, Sure, sir,
1454
01:25:37.159 --> 01:25:37.520
come here.
1455
01:25:37.680 --> 01:25:41.520
I remember not knowing what I was seeing, you know,
1456
01:25:41.560 --> 01:25:43.560
And after realizing it was Amy.
1457
01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:49.640
Really what hit me was the way that she was killed,
1458
01:25:50.039 --> 01:25:53.159
so heartbreaking that her, of all people, had to be
1459
01:25:53.279 --> 01:25:54.279
taken away.
1460
01:25:54.039 --> 01:25:54.840
That she was.
1461
01:25:56.760 --> 01:25:58.039
I said, I know who did it?
1462
01:25:58.279 --> 01:25:58.439
Why?
1463
01:25:58.640 --> 01:25:59.239
A new one?
1464
01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:03.279
I was the only person she was afraid of. That's
1465
01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:04.840
the only one she was ever afraid of.
1466
01:26:51.560 --> 01:26:57.960
Take a seat. Take a seat.
1467
01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:02.720
In the early morning darkness of February fifteenth, twenty twenty,
1468
01:27:03.159 --> 01:27:07.800
police body cameras were recording as Amy Harwick, barely clinging
1469
01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:11.560
to life outside of her Hollywood Hills home, was taken
1470
01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:12.640
to a hospital.
1471
01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:16.199
If she says anything in the hospital life, she wanted
1472
01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:16.760
to know that.
1473
01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:20.039
As EMTs tried to save Amy.
1474
01:27:19.880 --> 01:27:23.600
Officers from the Los Angeles Police Department tried to make
1475
01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:28.399
sense of this scene. Amy's roommate, Michael Herman, appeared to
1476
01:27:28.399 --> 01:27:32.560
be the only witness. He told officers an intruder had
1477
01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:33.520
attacked Amy.
1478
01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:36.039
I swear to you that was a struggle her.
1479
01:27:36.680 --> 01:27:39.239
But is there any sign of the intruder?
1480
01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:40.680
There wasn't, There wasn't.
1481
01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:44.880
Scott Masterson was the lead detective.
1482
01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:47.800
All we knew when we showed up was that a
1483
01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:51.239
female was found on the ground in the back of
1484
01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:54.439
the house. We're wide open to what really went on.
1485
01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:58.640
Even open to the possibility that this wasn't foul play
1486
01:27:58.680 --> 01:28:03.119
at all. When officers searched a three story house, they
1487
01:28:03.159 --> 01:28:07.399
found Amy's purse, jacket and broken necklace on the floor,
1488
01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:12.479
not exactly telltale signs of a crime, and a discovery
1489
01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:15.760
on Amy's balcony made them wonder if this could have
1490
01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:18.840
been an accident or even suicide.
1491
01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:22.319
On the deck of the balcony, we found a medium
1492
01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:29.439
size syringe and it was loaded with a yellowish brown substance, yes, heroin.
1493
01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:32.600
When the officers first saw that, they thought, what was
1494
01:28:32.600 --> 01:28:33.359
this some kind of.
1495
01:28:34.119 --> 01:28:38.640
Drug dealer, yeah, exactly, or maybe she was using drugs
1496
01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:39.840
and fell over.
1497
01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:42.399
They didn't know, sir, do you know her history of
1498
01:28:42.479 --> 01:28:42.880
joe use?
1499
01:28:43.640 --> 01:28:44.640
She's so she didn't drink it.
1500
01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:45.319
She didn't even drink.
1501
01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:46.439
She doesn't drink.
1502
01:28:46.479 --> 01:28:47.279
She doesn't even drink.
1503
01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:49.680
And when I first saw it, I said, that's.
1504
01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:53.800
Not heroin, not heroin. But he didn't know what it was.
1505
01:28:54.199 --> 01:28:56.000
But what did you think? Wasn't that odd?
1506
01:28:56.520 --> 01:29:02.720
Very odd, very strange.
1507
01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:04.880
And very strange to investigators, says Masterson. Was that Michael
1508
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:07.920
had blood on his shirt, and although he said he
1509
01:29:08.000 --> 01:29:10.760
was a roommate, he didn't have his keys to the
1510
01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:13.399
house when first responders arrived.
1511
01:29:13.439 --> 01:29:15.840
They don't know if he's part of the problem, part
1512
01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:19.720
of the solution, because he's a blood so you know,
1513
01:29:19.720 --> 01:29:21.399
they're thinking, was he in a fight with her?
1514
01:29:23.479 --> 01:29:27.840
That was not true. Michael Herman is telling his story
1515
01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:31.159
publicly for the first time about the events on the
1516
01:29:31.279 --> 01:29:35.560
night of Valentine's Day twenty twenty and into the early
1517
01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:38.920
hours of the next day. The word nightmare isn't even
1518
01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:39.399
big enough.
1519
01:29:39.399 --> 01:29:40.079
Where is it?
1520
01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:40.560
No?
1521
01:29:41.039 --> 01:29:44.760
No, Amy had gone out with friends, and Michael was
1522
01:29:44.800 --> 01:29:46.399
in his downstairs bedroom.
1523
01:29:46.640 --> 01:29:50.439
I've been mostly nodding on and off. I remember what
1524
01:29:50.600 --> 01:29:53.199
sounded like a plate drop and being woken up by.
1525
01:29:53.079 --> 01:29:57.560
It, thinking it was Amy's cat, He says, he fell
1526
01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:01.680
back asleep. He later woke up to Amy returning home
1527
01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:06.520
and that blood curdling scream. He then heard what sounded
1528
01:30:06.560 --> 01:30:10.439
like Amy being thrown to the floor and later choked.
1529
01:30:10.920 --> 01:30:13.079
Sound made you feel that there was someone up with her.
1530
01:30:13.359 --> 01:30:15.600
I knew for a fact there was somebody up there.
1531
01:30:15.640 --> 01:30:19.079
After that, I'm trying to listen. You don't know for
1532
01:30:19.159 --> 01:30:22.039
sure what's going on as the acting alone was there
1533
01:30:22.079 --> 01:30:25.439
more than one person start rushing to look for my.
1534
01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:30.319
Phone, but Michael says he couldn't find his phone. He
1535
01:30:30.439 --> 01:30:32.920
then started yelling to scare the intruder.
1536
01:30:33.399 --> 01:30:36.079
I remember thinking like, this is so much worse than
1537
01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:39.239
any horror movie I've ever seen. You're realizing that to Savor,
1538
01:30:39.399 --> 01:30:42.079
like you've got to make the decision to leave her
1539
01:30:42.279 --> 01:30:44.359
was such a hard decision.
1540
01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:49.239
Michael fled the house to get help, but when he
1541
01:30:49.279 --> 01:30:52.560
got to the front gate, it was locked. He climbed
1542
01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:57.640
over a fence, cutting himself on spiked rods. Frantically, he
1543
01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:01.640
ran to the next door neighbor's house. That neighbor's surveillance
1544
01:31:01.720 --> 01:31:06.159
camera shows Michael knocking on the door, but no one answers.
1545
01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:08.720
I just kind of panic, you know, feeling like a
1546
01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:10.039
lot of time.
1547
01:31:09.880 --> 01:31:10.760
Had already passed.
1548
01:31:11.399 --> 01:31:14.439
He then ran into someone on the street and used
1549
01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:16.279
their phone to call nine to one one.
1550
01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:19.680
You go to need to get us a copy here quick, sir.
1551
01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:21.399
The officers are on the way.
1552
01:31:23.079 --> 01:31:27.760
After spending hours at the scene, investigators found something in
1553
01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:31.640
the light of day that they had missed before. A
1554
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:35.079
broken window from a French door on the ground floor
1555
01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:36.880
with blood nearby.
1556
01:31:37.279 --> 01:31:40.479
And so as soon as we saw that, Okay, this
1557
01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:42.760
is our point of entry. We have a crime here.
1558
01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:45.279
Somebody broke into this house and did this.
1559
01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:48.000
So this was the first piece of evidence that said
1560
01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:50.479
to you, Mike Krman might be telling you the truth.
1561
01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:52.079
Correct. Correct.
1562
01:31:53.920 --> 01:31:57.840
Later at the Hollywood Police station, Michael told Masterson about
1563
01:31:57.880 --> 01:32:01.520
the person he believed was respond.
1564
01:32:00.800 --> 01:32:03.079
Told him she had an ex boyfriend that she had
1565
01:32:03.079 --> 01:32:06.880
had a restraining order against that had expired. I don't
1566
01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:09.079
know his name, but Robert would know his name.
1567
01:32:10.479 --> 01:32:15.000
Robert is Robert Cochlin, one of Amy's closest friends. We
1568
01:32:15.079 --> 01:32:18.239
first spoke to Robert in twenty twenty. He told us
1569
01:32:18.279 --> 01:32:19.520
what he told police.
1570
01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:21.960
They were like, do you know do you know who
1571
01:32:22.039 --> 01:32:26.359
might have could have done this? And I was like, yeah, Gareth.
1572
01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:31.439
Gareth Purcell's an old boyfriend whom Amy had had a
1573
01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:35.920
troubled relationship with when they dated almost ten years earlier.
1574
01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:37.680
I was like, you need to go find this guy
1575
01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:38.199
right away.
1576
01:32:40.399 --> 01:32:44.119
Masterson then broke the news to Robert and Michael. Amy
1577
01:32:44.319 --> 01:32:47.920
had died at the hospital. She was thirty eight years old.
1578
01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:52.479
How difficult was it to hear that Amy didn't make it.
1579
01:32:52.479 --> 01:32:53.640
It's still difficult to hear.
1580
01:32:55.880 --> 01:32:59.960
As investigators worked to find Amy's ex boyfriend, they also
1581
01:33:00.199 --> 01:33:05.279
tried to find Amy's parents, Penny and Tom Harwick in Pennsylvania.
1582
01:33:06.039 --> 01:33:09.279
The Harwicks remember getting ready for bed when there was
1583
01:33:09.319 --> 01:33:15.920
a knock at the door. It was the local police.
1584
01:33:14.319 --> 01:33:16.279
And he said, Amy's been murdered.
1585
01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:25.159
It's a blur right now.
1586
01:33:26.600 --> 01:33:30.279
I don't know how to describe it, just devastated.
1587
01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:35.720
Penny and Tom's life with Amy began when they adopted
1588
01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:37.920
her as an eleven month old baby.
1589
01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:42.279
Do you remember the first time you saw your little girl?
1590
01:33:42.760 --> 01:33:42.920
Oh?
1591
01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:46.279
I absolutely remember, kind of like a fairy tale. It's like,
1592
01:33:46.319 --> 01:33:49.560
here's this beautiful little girl sitting there. She's going to
1593
01:33:49.600 --> 01:33:52.279
come home with us and be our daughter.
1594
01:33:53.319 --> 01:33:55.760
It was wonderful, and believe it or not, she had
1595
01:33:55.760 --> 01:33:57.840
a headful of curls.
1596
01:33:57.600 --> 01:33:59.920
And her hair was honeycolored. By the time she was
1597
01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:01.479
for it was so dark.
1598
01:34:01.840 --> 01:34:05.840
Around that same time, the Harwicks adopted their son, Chris.
1599
01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:08.560
And she was okay with it for a couple of
1600
01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:12.399
weeks and then she said, well, when is he going back?
1601
01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:15.560
And I said, well, he's not. He's your brother. He's
1602
01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:20.359
going to be here forever. How would you describe your sister?
1603
01:34:21.039 --> 01:34:26.239
Amy was a very interesting character. She was into heavy
1604
01:34:26.279 --> 01:34:27.720
metal and rock music, going.
1605
01:34:27.600 --> 01:34:30.800
To concerts, and Amy got her parents in on the
1606
01:34:30.840 --> 01:34:31.600
action too.
1607
01:34:32.079 --> 01:34:34.159
She turned Penny and Eye into middle heads.
1608
01:34:34.479 --> 01:34:37.840
Her head sees seriously seriously.
1609
01:34:38.039 --> 01:34:42.119
She would always manage to get either backstage or to
1610
01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:43.359
meet the performers.
1611
01:34:44.039 --> 01:34:45.359
That's just who she was.
1612
01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:51.199
After high school, Amy met Tommy Decker, a drummer from
1613
01:34:51.359 --> 01:34:56.239
la at a local concert. The two began dating long distance,
1614
01:34:56.760 --> 01:34:57.199
and then.
1615
01:34:57.119 --> 01:34:59.119
She said, I want to move out there. I want
1616
01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:00.119
to move out to lam.
1617
01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:04.359
In two thousand and one, she headed west. She was
1618
01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:05.600
twenty years old.
1619
01:35:06.039 --> 01:35:09.239
She needed to find out who she was. She needed
1620
01:35:09.279 --> 01:35:10.399
to do that for herself.
1621
01:35:11.840 --> 01:35:14.720
Soon the couple tied the knot, but after a three
1622
01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:20.319
year marriage, Tommy and Amy divorced. It wasn't until two
1623
01:35:20.399 --> 01:35:22.760
thousand and nine that Amy would go on to meet
1624
01:35:22.840 --> 01:35:26.720
Gareth Pearce House, the man police suspected had killed her
1625
01:35:27.039 --> 01:35:29.039
and whom they were now searching for.
1626
01:35:40.880 --> 01:35:44.000
Heartbreak for a local neighborhood after a well known therapist
1627
01:35:44.279 --> 01:35:46.439
was killed at her Hollywood Hills home.
1628
01:35:48.760 --> 01:35:51.600
People have left flowers here for Amy Harwick and her
1629
01:35:51.680 --> 01:35:55.720
friends and family are hoping for justice.
1630
01:35:56.800 --> 01:35:59.840
I was very confident that, you know, Gareth Purcehouse was
1631
01:35:59.840 --> 01:36:00.399
a guy.
1632
01:36:01.800 --> 01:36:05.520
Within thirteen hours of Amy Harwick's death on February fifteen,
1633
01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:10.800
twenty twenty, police descended on Gareth Pearcehouse's beachside neighborhood to
1634
01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:14.000
arrest him.
1635
01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:18.119
You could tell he was playing the old what's this about? Well,
1636
01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:18.880
why do you want to talk?
1637
01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:19.359
Who?
1638
01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:23.000
Oh, yeah, I know Amy. Sure, yeah. He basically was saying,
1639
01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:23.760
I've been at home.
1640
01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:30.880
Detectives weren't buying that story or the explanation Parcells gave
1641
01:36:31.279 --> 01:36:34.720
for what appeared to be a fresh black eye. He
1642
01:36:34.800 --> 01:36:36.680
blamed a home renovation.
1643
01:36:37.279 --> 01:36:39.600
I said, I think you better get a contractor if
1644
01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:41.439
you get a hold of power tool, you're gonna be
1645
01:36:41.520 --> 01:36:42.199
in real trouble.
1646
01:36:43.840 --> 01:36:48.319
Pearcell's was charged with Amy's murder on February nineteenth, twenty twenty,
1647
01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:52.640
and detectives were learning about his troubled past, beginning not
1648
01:36:52.840 --> 01:36:55.840
long after he and Amy began dating in two thousand
1649
01:36:55.880 --> 01:36:56.279
and nine.
1650
01:36:56.640 --> 01:36:59.239
They seemed like a pretty fun couple and kind of
1651
01:36:59.359 --> 01:37:01.319
nice to see, you know, friends get together.
1652
01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:04.840
When we first spoke to Rudy Torres in twenty twenty,
1653
01:37:05.119 --> 01:37:08.399
he talked about how the couple met. Amy, then working
1654
01:37:08.479 --> 01:37:12.119
as a model and dancer, would often run into herseuse,
1655
01:37:12.319 --> 01:37:16.079
an events photographer, at flashy la parties.
1656
01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:18.119
If you had meet him, you would think he's charming,
1657
01:37:19.039 --> 01:37:21.000
little goofy kind of door key.
1658
01:37:21.680 --> 01:37:25.279
He wasn't a musician like she don't know the dayd no, no,
1659
01:37:25.479 --> 01:37:27.439
And she was trying to break that habit.
1660
01:37:28.399 --> 01:37:33.439
Herseuse was also a computer expert and an aspiring comedian.
1661
01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:35.399
Here he is one more time for Gareth.
1662
01:37:35.479 --> 01:37:36.760
Everybody, come on I.
1663
01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:38.239
Venues for the entertainers over there.
1664
01:37:38.279 --> 01:37:40.359
The best day of your career is going to the
1665
01:37:40.479 --> 01:37:41.560
days after you die.
1666
01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:45.880
But oddly, says Amy's mother, Penny, her daughter didn't share
1667
01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:47.239
much else about him.
1668
01:37:47.800 --> 01:37:49.159
And why do you think that is?
1669
01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:54.800
Well, maybe she was already feeling like he wasn't who
1670
01:37:54.840 --> 01:37:55.640
she thought he was.
1671
01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:01.239
And Penny says her daughter never shared how volatile the
1672
01:38:01.319 --> 01:38:03.479
two year relationship had become.
1673
01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:07.600
She'd gone through quite a bit with Gareth. There was
1674
01:38:07.640 --> 01:38:09.079
a number of police reports.
1675
01:38:08.800 --> 01:38:09.479
That were made.
1676
01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:13.399
Detectives learned that Amy had called police to report several
1677
01:38:13.479 --> 01:38:17.680
violent incidents over the years. She said that on multiple
1678
01:38:17.720 --> 01:38:23.239
occasions Gareth Purshouse had choked, suffocated, and punched her with
1679
01:38:23.279 --> 01:38:27.399
a closed fist, and she even documented her injuries with
1680
01:38:27.479 --> 01:38:33.960
these photos. But Amy's father Tom says Amy didn't share
1681
01:38:34.640 --> 01:38:36.319
just how bad things had gotten.
1682
01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:38.319
She didn't go into details.
1683
01:38:38.600 --> 01:38:42.479
Do you think she just wanted to protect the Tipya.
1684
01:38:42.560 --> 01:38:47.479
After Amy ended the relationship, she took steps to protect herself,
1685
01:38:47.920 --> 01:38:52.840
obtaining a restraining order against Pearsows in twenty twelve. But
1686
01:38:52.920 --> 01:38:57.119
while she was trying to distance herself from him, Rudy says,
1687
01:38:57.600 --> 01:38:59.720
Parcell's could not let her go.
1688
01:39:00.279 --> 01:39:02.760
He always wanted to get a hold of her. Nice
1689
01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:04.800
to tell him that he should just leave her alone,
1690
01:39:04.960 --> 01:39:07.279
and he wouldn't take no for an answer, and then
1691
01:39:07.359 --> 01:39:08.960
he cut me off.
1692
01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:13.760
In the years after their breakup, Amy told her parents
1693
01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:18.039
that her home was broken into on one occasion, strangely,
1694
01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:22.520
the only things taken were personal photos, and on another
1695
01:39:22.960 --> 01:39:24.960
her computer was wipe clean.
1696
01:39:25.720 --> 01:39:27.640
And did she think it was Gareth?
1697
01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:32.079
She did, yes, but no way approving, no way approving anything.
1698
01:39:32.279 --> 01:39:35.079
Of course, we were worried, but then we also felt like, well,
1699
01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:37.279
she's done with him, it's over.
1700
01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:39.359
And it was never over.
1701
01:39:42.199 --> 01:39:46.359
And Penny says Amy was thriving, getting a degree to
1702
01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:48.159
become a licensed therapist.
1703
01:39:48.439 --> 01:39:48.960
My miss is.
1704
01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:51.399
Doctor Amy Harwick, licensed marriage and family.
1705
01:39:51.159 --> 01:39:55.159
Therapistness Amy posted therapy videos on her social media.
1706
01:39:55.880 --> 01:39:57.119
You can seek therapy.
1707
01:39:56.840 --> 01:39:59.880
To address an issue like depression, anxiety, a breakup.
1708
01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:02.960
You can also seek therapy to be a better you.
1709
01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:07.319
But even as Amy focused on helping others, she couldn't
1710
01:40:07.359 --> 01:40:11.159
quite shake the shadows from her past. She lost a
1711
01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:15.119
job as a youth counselor. Penny says after a prospective
1712
01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:20.359
employer was anonymously sent nude photos of her. Amy believed
1713
01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:22.199
herself was behind it.
1714
01:40:22.600 --> 01:40:25.600
She was really upset about it, and she wasn't sure
1715
01:40:25.600 --> 01:40:26.680
what she was going to do.
1716
01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:32.399
Despite that obstacle, Amy studied for a PhD in Human sexuality,
1717
01:40:32.960 --> 01:40:37.199
earning the title doctor. She took a special interest in
1718
01:40:37.319 --> 01:40:41.359
marginalized groups, all sex workers and vulnerable women.
1719
01:40:42.039 --> 01:40:45.079
And she doesn't stop. She just keep bounce story book.
1720
01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:45.600
I wrote a.
1721
01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:47.399
Book called a New Sex Bible for Women's Now.
1722
01:40:47.439 --> 01:40:48.119
She didn't stop.
1723
01:40:48.159 --> 01:40:51.000
She would work with these groups of people that she
1724
01:40:51.079 --> 01:40:54.119
felt were underrepresented and needed help.
1725
01:40:54.560 --> 01:40:56.920
What was doctor Harwick's reputation?
1726
01:40:57.479 --> 01:41:01.880
Doctor Amy Howick had an amazing reputation. I had a
1727
01:41:01.880 --> 01:41:03.920
lot of mutual friends that had seen her.
1728
01:41:04.399 --> 01:41:08.920
Emily sears A model whose grace the cover of Maxim magazine.
1729
01:41:09.199 --> 01:41:14.239
First started seeing doctor Amy Harwick in twenty seventeen in
1730
01:41:14.359 --> 01:41:18.720
part to help her overcome anxiety she had around dating
1731
01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:19.880
and intimacy.
1732
01:41:20.560 --> 01:41:22.119
I felt that she was relatable.
1733
01:41:22.279 --> 01:41:25.520
Well, I didn't know just exactly how relatable it was.
1734
01:41:25.880 --> 01:41:29.000
Even when she opened up to Amy about an abusive
1735
01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:33.439
ex boyfriend who had stoked her. Emily says, Amy never
1736
01:41:33.560 --> 01:41:37.159
told her about her own similar experience.
1737
01:41:37.199 --> 01:41:41.319
And that still is something that I am struggling to
1738
01:41:41.399 --> 01:41:44.199
process knowing that I was sitting across from her and
1739
01:41:44.319 --> 01:41:48.319
she had been through so much that was similar.
1740
01:41:48.640 --> 01:41:52.600
As Amy was helping Emily work through her issues around dating,
1741
01:41:53.159 --> 01:41:55.880
Amy was taking a chance on a new man in
1742
01:41:55.920 --> 01:41:59.880
her own life. Happy Bell Time's Days, Luke Carrey, comedian
1743
01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:03.079
and host of The Price Is Right on CBS.
1744
01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:07.039
She was obviously really beautiful, she was really smart. She
1745
01:42:07.119 --> 01:42:09.640
just wanted to help people, especially women.
1746
01:42:09.960 --> 01:42:13.600
We spoke to Carrie in twenty twenty two. He said
1747
01:42:13.680 --> 01:42:16.800
it wasn't long after meeting Amy at a party that
1748
01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:20.239
he decided she was the one, and.
1749
01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:21.880
I said, if this keeps going the weight it's going,
1750
01:42:21.920 --> 01:42:22.760
I'm going to marry her.
1751
01:42:23.159 --> 01:42:25.359
And what happened what happened was you had to have
1752
01:42:25.359 --> 01:42:28.119
taken her to parents on New Year's even proposing to her.
1753
01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:29.560
She accepted.
1754
01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:33.520
Drew and Amy shared the news on his show soon after.
1755
01:42:33.960 --> 01:42:36.640
I'd like to introduce you to my brand new lovely fiance.
1756
01:42:36.800 --> 01:42:42.479
Amy had no name. But instead of spending the rest
1757
01:42:42.520 --> 01:42:46.640
of their lives together, later that year, the couple split up.
1758
01:42:47.199 --> 01:42:51.159
How did she take the breakup? She was devastated.
1759
01:42:51.600 --> 01:42:53.520
I mean, she broke it off, and I think that's
1760
01:42:53.520 --> 01:42:56.439
because all fame was getting in the way.
1761
01:42:57.000 --> 01:43:00.840
That's because, as Penny, Amy feared that with the added
1762
01:43:00.920 --> 01:43:04.319
public attention she was getting while on the arm of
1763
01:43:04.319 --> 01:43:08.880
a celebrity, she could be putting herself in danger.
1764
01:43:09.279 --> 01:43:33.399
You know who was watching, and it made her worry.
1765
01:43:37.680 --> 01:43:41.319
It hit hard a lot off to Amy paust in
1766
01:43:41.399 --> 01:43:42.319
the way that she did.
1767
01:43:44.560 --> 01:43:47.199
How dangerous it really is for women.
1768
01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:51.880
Emily Sears, one of Amy Harwick's therapy clients, was shaken
1769
01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:53.359
by the news of her death.
1770
01:43:54.039 --> 01:43:55.640
The reality is we're not safe.
1771
01:43:55.880 --> 01:43:58.680
Nobody is in dealing with some domestic violence. Because this
1772
01:43:58.760 --> 01:44:01.279
was a bit different because the way Gareth Pursouse acted
1773
01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:02.640
in this case was more methodical.
1774
01:44:04.479 --> 01:44:08.119
When Deputy District Attorney Victor Avla took on the case.
1775
01:44:08.600 --> 01:44:12.199
He was particularly troubled by evidence that Purceouse had broken
1776
01:44:12.279 --> 01:44:16.039
into Amy's house, hoping to catch her off guard when
1777
01:44:16.159 --> 01:44:17.239
she arrived home.
1778
01:44:17.600 --> 01:44:19.640
And that's at the point that we decided to charge
1779
01:44:19.880 --> 01:44:22.600
not only the murder charge, also the special circumstance of
1780
01:44:22.680 --> 01:44:25.159
lying and wait. These are the crime scene notes.
1781
01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:30.039
Avla, along with his co counsul Deputy District Attorney Catherine Mariano,
1782
01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:35.359
reviewed surveillance, in body camera video, interviews with Amy's family
1783
01:44:35.439 --> 01:44:39.720
and friends, and compiled a timeline of the events leading
1784
01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:40.720
up to the murder.
1785
01:44:41.159 --> 01:44:44.840
Became very clear to me that his obsessions drove his
1786
01:44:45.079 --> 01:44:46.119
intent to kill her.
1787
01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:53.199
They believe that Parsous's obsession with Amy was ignited when
1788
01:44:53.239 --> 01:44:56.159
he saw her at this award show about a month
1789
01:44:56.239 --> 01:45:01.079
before her murder. It was a chance encounter working the
1790
01:45:01.119 --> 01:45:05.760
gig as a photographer. Amy smiling for the cameras, enjoying
1791
01:45:05.800 --> 01:45:10.760
the limelight, but moments earlier, off camera, witnesses say an
1792
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:15.600
angry HER's house confronted her. Penny Harwick recalls Amy telling
1793
01:45:15.640 --> 01:45:18.680
her she hadn't seen him in almost a decade.
1794
01:45:20.439 --> 01:45:22.000
He called her a bitch, and he.
1795
01:45:22.000 --> 01:45:24.199
Told her she ruined his life, and she just told
1796
01:45:24.239 --> 01:45:27.319
me how afraid she was because he was crying and
1797
01:45:27.640 --> 01:45:32.640
causing a huge scene, and she said, mom, I went
1798
01:45:32.680 --> 01:45:33.800
into therapist's mood.
1799
01:45:33.960 --> 01:45:35.399
I just tried to calm him.
1800
01:45:36.439 --> 01:45:40.079
After talking to Garrett for almost an hour, Amy left
1801
01:45:40.119 --> 01:45:42.119
the event very worried.
1802
01:45:43.760 --> 01:45:46.239
Was your reaction, Penny when she was telling you this.
1803
01:45:46.720 --> 01:45:49.199
That's when we talked about security, and she said she
1804
01:45:49.319 --> 01:45:50.720
was going to get pepper spray.
1805
01:45:50.960 --> 01:45:53.640
We decided to start sharing locations so I could track
1806
01:45:53.680 --> 01:45:54.399
where she was.
1807
01:45:54.640 --> 01:45:58.279
Her close friend, Robert Caslin, says that sharing her phone's
1808
01:45:58.279 --> 01:46:01.479
location was one of the few things Amy felt she
1809
01:46:01.560 --> 01:46:05.840
could do to feel safe. The restraining order against Pearcews
1810
01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:11.119
had long expired, and because Parcels hadn't expressly threatened her,
1811
01:46:11.640 --> 01:46:14.840
Robert says, she didn't think going to police would help.
1812
01:46:15.399 --> 01:46:19.079
Stilly says Amy was very concerned.
1813
01:46:19.640 --> 01:46:23.399
That's when she said, look, if something happens to me,
1814
01:46:23.600 --> 01:46:26.319
he did it. She actually said she did. She literally
1815
01:46:26.319 --> 01:46:26.840
said that.
1816
01:46:26.840 --> 01:46:29.479
She's thinking that he can cause me harm. And the
1817
01:46:29.560 --> 01:46:31.960
very next day he finds her phone on the internet
1818
01:46:31.960 --> 01:46:33.039
and starts texting her.
1819
01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:37.399
Gareth sent Amy a series of texts and later left
1820
01:46:37.439 --> 01:46:39.439
her a tear filled voicemail.
1821
01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:41.680
I hope so.
1822
01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:42.960
Much I need to say.
1823
01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:46.640
Please, give me a chance to just say it.
1824
01:46:47.359 --> 01:46:50.079
Please.
1825
01:46:50.600 --> 01:46:54.560
That's when prosecutors say Amy decided to block his number.
1826
01:46:55.119 --> 01:46:57.199
I believe up until that point he was trying to
1827
01:46:57.239 --> 01:46:59.840
manipulate his way back into her life. At the point
1828
01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:02.520
she made the decision to block him, that was her
1829
01:47:02.600 --> 01:47:03.760
choice and she had that right.
1830
01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:04.079
To do that.
1831
01:47:04.279 --> 01:47:08.199
Prosecutors say Purcell's started to plan to kill Amy on
1832
01:47:08.399 --> 01:47:13.199
Valentine's Day? Was that just a random date? Absolutely not.
1833
01:47:13.399 --> 01:47:15.439
I think he wanted to make a statement by killing her.
1834
01:47:15.439 --> 01:47:18.119
On Valentine's Day.
1835
01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:21.680
On February fourteen, twenty twenty, Amy went out with a
1836
01:47:21.720 --> 01:47:26.720
group of friends around seven pm. Two hours later, say prosecutors,
1837
01:47:27.079 --> 01:47:31.439
surveillance cameras from her next door neighbor's property were activated.
1838
01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:35.000
You get those ring cameras that show a person that
1839
01:47:35.039 --> 01:47:37.479
looks just like Gareth Purshou's with gloves.
1840
01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:41.199
When he first comes into view, he covers the camera
1841
01:47:41.560 --> 01:47:44.680
and when the camera senses no more motion, it shuts
1842
01:47:44.720 --> 01:47:47.560
off and then he hops over the fence.
1843
01:47:47.640 --> 01:47:52.640
Into Amy's yard. Soon after, around nine pm, they believe
1844
01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:55.800
Pearceoll's broke through that French door.
1845
01:47:55.960 --> 01:47:59.239
And that's consistent with Michael Herman. He heard something breaking
1846
01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:01.840
upstairs early into Amy, and I think.
1847
01:48:01.720 --> 01:48:04.479
He just got into the house cut himself. I don't
1848
01:48:04.479 --> 01:48:06.840
think he even realized he cut himself.
1849
01:48:06.880 --> 01:48:12.000
Leaving that blood police later found nearby. DNA testing would
1850
01:48:12.039 --> 01:48:19.159
confirm it belonged to Pearsouse, and Detective Masterson says where
1851
01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:24.199
Parsouse went next was revealed by Amy's unmade bed.
1852
01:48:24.520 --> 01:48:27.119
I think he climbed in her bed. He was there
1853
01:48:27.239 --> 01:48:29.199
waiting for her for quite a while.
1854
01:48:29.520 --> 01:48:30.479
How creepy is that?
1855
01:48:31.119 --> 01:48:31.920
Crazy? Creepy?
1856
01:48:34.600 --> 01:48:38.399
That's where Masterson believes Amy found him four hours later,
1857
01:48:38.439 --> 01:48:41.720
when she arrived home a little after one am.
1858
01:48:42.239 --> 01:48:45.239
She walks into her bedroom and I think she just
1859
01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:48.680
froze and shock and fear. And the one thing that
1860
01:48:48.760 --> 01:48:50.560
was on the bed was her phone, so I think
1861
01:48:50.600 --> 01:48:53.920
she actually threw her phone at him and turned and
1862
01:48:53.960 --> 01:48:57.439
started to run out of the bedroom. And she's screaming,
1863
01:48:58.159 --> 01:48:59.800
and they're fighting and they're wrestling.
1864
01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:02.800
How hard did Amy fight for her life?
1865
01:49:02.960 --> 01:49:04.560
I think she fought with everything she had.
1866
01:49:04.760 --> 01:49:07.039
He had something that appeared to look like a bitemark
1867
01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:08.359
on his bicep.
1868
01:49:08.279 --> 01:49:11.560
And Purcell's also had that black eye.
1869
01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:14.479
To us, it was indicative of Amy fighting for her life,
1870
01:49:14.479 --> 01:49:18.800
but she was obviously up against a much bigger, stronger opponent.
1871
01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:24.079
Prosecutors believe Purcells started choking Amy and that's when Michael
1872
01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:28.359
Herman yell. They believe, catching Purcell's by surprise.
1873
01:49:29.199 --> 01:49:32.039
And I think that plan was definitely thwarted by the
1874
01:49:32.319 --> 01:49:35.680
unbeknownst presence of Michael Herman there. I just don't believe
1875
01:49:35.960 --> 01:49:37.880
that he even knew that somebody was home.
1876
01:49:38.159 --> 01:49:42.159
In his panic. They believe Pursoll's dropped that syringe police
1877
01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:46.039
found on the balcony. It was months before lab test
1878
01:49:46.119 --> 01:49:50.479
revealed what it contained liquid nicotine.
1879
01:49:50.359 --> 01:49:54.039
A toxic poison that if injected into someone, it would
1880
01:49:54.119 --> 01:49:54.520
kill them.
1881
01:49:54.600 --> 01:49:55.760
Why kill her that way?
1882
01:49:56.119 --> 01:49:59.119
I mean with that lethodosa nicotine, people may not know
1883
01:49:59.279 --> 01:50:01.239
what killed her, It may not be detected.
1884
01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:08.840
With his original plan interrupted, Prosecutors believe that Purcehouse carried Amy,
1885
01:50:09.319 --> 01:50:14.119
barely conscious after being strangled to the third story balcony.
1886
01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:16.880
He lifts her right over the rail and then drops
1887
01:50:16.880 --> 01:50:18.000
her to kill her.
1888
01:50:18.279 --> 01:50:22.079
Gareth Purshouse is caught on the neighbor's camera hopping back
1889
01:50:22.239 --> 01:50:29.199
over the fence with their suspect and theory of the crime.
1890
01:50:29.640 --> 01:50:34.520
The prosecutors were ready for trial, but they were surprised
1891
01:50:34.560 --> 01:50:52.399
by Gareth Purshouse's defense blaming Amy for what happened that night.
1892
01:50:54.439 --> 01:50:57.680
In August twenty twenty three, more than three years after
1893
01:50:57.720 --> 01:51:02.840
Amy Harwick's death, her acute killer, Gareth Purshouse, went on trial.
1894
01:51:03.279 --> 01:51:06.800
I almost didn't recognize him.
1895
01:51:06.840 --> 01:51:12.239
In their opening statements, prosecutors Victor Avela and Catherine Mariano
1896
01:51:12.840 --> 01:51:17.680
told jurors why and how they believe Purcehouse ended Amy's life.
1897
01:51:18.039 --> 01:51:22.960
In the early morning of February fifteenth, twenty twenty, Amy.
1898
01:51:22.800 --> 01:51:29.000
Harwicks was murdered by defendant Garret Purshouse because he was probsessful,
1899
01:51:30.439 --> 01:51:34.920
he rifted her over the balcony and dropped.
1900
01:51:34.600 --> 01:51:35.479
Her through her head.
1901
01:51:35.760 --> 01:51:40.199
I just pray that Amy was unconscious when she was
1902
01:51:40.479 --> 01:51:41.800
when she went over the balcony.
1903
01:51:43.479 --> 01:51:46.600
Tom and Penny sat through every second of the trial,
1904
01:51:47.000 --> 01:51:49.199
even the most graphic moments.
1905
01:51:49.520 --> 01:51:51.960
I need to know what happened to my daughter, and
1906
01:51:52.119 --> 01:51:54.359
we wanted to be there for Amy yea through the
1907
01:51:54.359 --> 01:51:54.960
whole ordeal.
1908
01:51:55.439 --> 01:51:59.079
But the Harwicks were not alone. Also in the courtroom
1909
01:51:59.279 --> 01:52:04.000
a small arm army of Amy's friends, including Rudy Torres.
1910
01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:06.520
This is the last thing I could ever do for her.
1911
01:52:08.159 --> 01:52:12.640
Although fortified by her friends, nothing could prepare the Harwicks
1912
01:52:12.680 --> 01:52:17.600
to hear for the first time ever, Gareth Parcehouse's explanation
1913
01:52:18.119 --> 01:52:23.560
about what happened the night Amy died. Defense attorney Evan
1914
01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:28.159
Franzl claims that running into Amy in January twenty twenty
1915
01:52:28.199 --> 01:52:32.039
at that award show had sent purce House into quote
1916
01:52:32.399 --> 01:52:37.319
a deep, debilitating depression unquote, and the only way out
1917
01:52:37.319 --> 01:52:41.079
of it was to talk to Amy on Valentine's Day
1918
01:52:41.199 --> 01:52:42.119
twenty twenty.
1919
01:52:42.399 --> 01:52:45.159
His only intention that I was to speak to her.
1920
01:52:45.680 --> 01:52:50.000
What was your reaction to that? To put it bluntly,
1921
01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:52.840
they're making up stories because they have no defense.
1922
01:52:54.359 --> 01:52:57.359
And as for that nicotine filled syringe found at the
1923
01:52:57.399 --> 01:53:03.119
crime scene, purce House's defensive attorney says, it wasn't for Amy.
1924
01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:08.239
Why didn't he No, he was on a mission to
1925
01:53:08.319 --> 01:53:08.640
kill her.
1926
01:53:08.680 --> 01:53:11.079
He was wearing gloves when he went there. He covered
1927
01:53:11.119 --> 01:53:12.960
up the cameras. What's the purpose in doing all that
1928
01:53:13.000 --> 01:53:16.840
if you're going to kill yourself there in front of her?
1929
01:53:17.359 --> 01:53:20.039
The defense tells the jurors they will hear from an
1930
01:53:20.079 --> 01:53:24.479
accident reconstructionist who will show that Amy fell on her own.
1931
01:53:24.920 --> 01:53:29.439
Defense attorney Franzel then shows the jury two images, a
1932
01:53:29.479 --> 01:53:34.439
screenshot of the reconstruction showing an animated figure hanging from
1933
01:53:34.439 --> 01:53:39.079
the balcony and an undated photo of Amy posing on
1934
01:53:39.279 --> 01:53:41.079
top of a balcony railing.
1935
01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:43.600
You'll see that she.
1936
01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:45.720
Had a certain comfort level with the balcony.
1937
01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:50.800
Rate beautiful young lady, wasn't she? She looked glorious. What
1938
01:53:51.000 --> 01:53:51.720
was your reaction?
1939
01:53:52.560 --> 01:53:53.199
Ridiculous?
1940
01:53:54.520 --> 01:53:56.760
I couldn't take it seriously. It was just so far
1941
01:53:56.840 --> 01:53:57.640
fetched to me.
1942
01:53:59.119 --> 01:54:03.000
He's been strangled, she's debilitated, So for her to then
1943
01:54:03.119 --> 01:54:06.079
walk climb over a three foot rail do all that,
1944
01:54:06.439 --> 01:54:09.199
it doesn't seem reasonable. It seems actually unreasonable.
1945
01:54:09.520 --> 01:54:13.680
The defense's opening concludes with this damning admission.
1946
01:54:14.159 --> 01:54:17.279
Yes, Gareth first House was leaning in her home.
1947
01:54:18.159 --> 01:54:19.399
He broke into her home.
1948
01:54:19.640 --> 01:54:20.720
Had he not been.
1949
01:54:20.600 --> 01:54:23.359
There, she wouldn't die hast.
1950
01:54:24.239 --> 01:54:26.159
That is not in dispute.
1951
01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:31.520
He set a chance of actions into motives that led
1952
01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:32.640
to her death.
1953
01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:38.439
But the evidence will show that he never intended I'm killing.
1954
01:54:40.720 --> 01:54:44.520
Over the course of ten days, the prosecution presented its
1955
01:54:44.560 --> 01:54:48.399
evidence to prove that Gareth pears House did intend to
1956
01:54:48.479 --> 01:54:52.960
kill Amy Harwick. Dozens of witnesses testified for the state,
1957
01:54:53.600 --> 01:55:01.439
including Detective Master said now retired Robert Koshlin, My, and
1958
01:55:01.560 --> 01:55:06.319
of course Amy's roommate Michael Herman, the man who heard
1959
01:55:06.399 --> 01:55:10.159
it all. Michael described for the jury how after that
1960
01:55:10.399 --> 01:55:14.399
incident on the red carpet, Amy had been concerned about
1961
01:55:14.439 --> 01:55:18.479
those French doors that Pursouse would later use to break
1962
01:55:18.520 --> 01:55:19.399
into her home.
1963
01:55:20.039 --> 01:55:22.560
Amy had met with a handyman.
1964
01:55:22.920 --> 01:55:27.560
I remember they were over by the glass stores and
1965
01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:30.279
Amy was pointing it out and telling him we need
1966
01:55:30.319 --> 01:55:30.960
to secure this.
1967
01:55:32.399 --> 01:55:36.479
Prosecutors also played for the jury this tape jail conversation
1968
01:55:37.039 --> 01:55:40.359
between Pursous and his friends after his arrest.
1969
01:55:40.800 --> 01:55:43.079
I guess I'm officially a bad boy, now right, I've
1970
01:55:43.119 --> 01:55:45.520
always been kind of Just.
1971
01:55:45.439 --> 01:55:48.439
A couple of weeks after he's been arrested for murder, he's.
1972
01:55:48.319 --> 01:55:49.319
Laughing with his friends.
1973
01:55:49.359 --> 01:55:52.880
You never hear any moment of concern for Amy during
1974
01:55:52.920 --> 01:55:53.399
that call.
1975
01:55:53.760 --> 01:55:55.880
Yeah, so it's not great.
1976
01:55:57.600 --> 01:55:58.640
I'm not getting out of here.
1977
01:55:58.800 --> 01:56:00.000
Why was that important?
1978
01:56:00.279 --> 01:56:03.039
I think that's one piece of evidence to show a
1979
01:56:03.279 --> 01:56:06.039
consciousness of guilt, so he knows what's coming. Because the
1980
01:56:06.079 --> 01:56:08.439
evidence shows what he did, it proves what he did.
1981
01:56:09.640 --> 01:56:12.560
When it was the defense's turn to present its case
1982
01:56:12.720 --> 01:56:16.000
and call its expert witness to show how Amy's fall
1983
01:56:16.079 --> 01:56:21.000
from the balcony was an accident. The defense suddenly rested
1984
01:56:21.359 --> 01:56:26.239
without calling a single witness. Didn't that hurt the defense?
1985
01:56:26.680 --> 01:56:29.439
I am sure some jurors were wondering what happened, so
1986
01:56:29.720 --> 01:56:30.600
I don't think that helps.
1987
01:56:30.960 --> 01:56:36.239
During closing arguments, defense attorney Robin Bernstein leve presented a
1988
01:56:36.319 --> 01:56:40.239
new theory of what happened that night that Amy may
1989
01:56:40.239 --> 01:56:41.840
have attacked person house.
1990
01:56:43.039 --> 01:56:48.000
We don't know who initiated the physical confrontation.
1991
01:56:49.680 --> 01:56:52.960
It is just as likely, if not likelier, she.
1992
01:56:53.039 --> 01:56:59.199
Preemptively attacked Gareth Purshouse in order to subdue him because
1993
01:56:59.359 --> 01:57:00.520
she was afraid of him.
1994
01:57:01.520 --> 01:57:03.479
You see that all the time, don't you. A one
1995
01:57:03.600 --> 01:57:06.199
hundred and fifteen pound lady picking a fight with a
1996
01:57:06.199 --> 01:57:08.800
two hundred and thirty pound, six foot four man just
1997
01:57:08.840 --> 01:57:10.079
preposteros on its face?
1998
01:57:10.239 --> 01:57:11.319
Did that make you mad?
1999
01:57:11.840 --> 01:57:12.039
Oh?
2000
01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:16.119
Took all my willpower just stay in that seat to
2001
01:57:16.199 --> 01:57:17.119
keep my mouth shut.
2002
01:57:17.600 --> 01:57:22.199
During the state's closing arguments, it's Amy Harwick who has
2003
01:57:22.279 --> 01:57:27.279
the last word, with Prosecutor Mariano, reading from an email
2004
01:57:27.520 --> 01:57:32.159
Amy wrote to herself hours after her January twenty twenty
2005
01:57:32.319 --> 01:57:34.840
encounter with herself and night.
2006
01:57:34.920 --> 01:57:38.760
I felt very scary here behind me started screen.
2007
01:57:38.960 --> 01:57:41.079
I'm pretty nervous that I'm more on his radar now.
2008
01:57:41.399 --> 01:57:44.319
It terrifies me that he's obsessed with me for nine years,
2009
01:57:44.840 --> 01:57:47.920
thinks about me every day. He's focused on harming me.
2010
01:57:50.079 --> 01:57:53.279
That's the closest we've ever had to a victim testifying
2011
01:57:53.279 --> 01:57:56.800
in their murder. I thought it was extremely devastating.
2012
01:57:57.920 --> 01:58:02.560
Jurors had three choices, murder in the first degree, murder
2013
01:58:02.600 --> 01:58:07.199
in the second, or the lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter.
2014
01:58:07.600 --> 01:58:10.600
When it came time for deliberation, I think we all
2015
01:58:10.640 --> 01:58:13.800
thought it would be rather quick. Day one went by nothing.
2016
01:58:13.960 --> 01:58:16.279
I started getting a little worried im thinking what could
2017
01:58:16.279 --> 01:58:19.119
they be debating about.
2018
01:58:36.880 --> 01:58:41.960
I felt nervous because you never know. As jurors met
2019
01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:45.760
for a second day to decide Gareth Purshouse's fate, the
2020
01:58:45.840 --> 01:58:49.560
waiting for a verdict began to weigh heavily on the prosecution.
2021
01:58:50.000 --> 01:58:52.399
It's incredibly nerve wracking. The weight is the worst part,
2022
01:58:52.680 --> 01:58:56.039
and on Amy Harwick's friends and family.
2023
01:58:56.039 --> 01:59:00.079
And all you hear is just like a symphony of
2024
01:59:00.079 --> 01:59:02.520
of anxious bellies, just girl.
2025
01:59:04.079 --> 01:59:05.880
So everybody's nervous.
2026
01:59:05.399 --> 01:59:08.439
But as court was about to adjourn, we were.
2027
01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:11.520
Walking out of the courthouse and Rudy called down and said,
2028
01:59:11.600 --> 01:59:12.479
everybody get up here.
2029
01:59:12.560 --> 01:59:14.880
There's a verdict, has.
2030
01:59:14.720 --> 01:59:16.880
A crack that the jury has a verd You're gonna
2031
01:59:16.880 --> 01:59:18.159
have the verdict formed over the bay.
2032
01:59:18.319 --> 01:59:22.079
Please with the jury the moves out of actually fighting defendant.
2033
01:59:22.159 --> 01:59:22.960
You're with pursous.
2034
01:59:23.239 --> 01:59:28.760
He'll have the first degree Gareth Purcehou's guilty of first
2035
01:59:28.800 --> 01:59:33.279
degree murder with a special circumstance of line in Wait.
2036
01:59:33.800 --> 01:59:35.880
What did you feel at that moment?
2037
01:59:36.039 --> 01:59:40.479
A huge, huge relief. I just started crying and I
2038
01:59:40.520 --> 01:59:46.199
couldn't stop. It was like, whew, finally, after all this time,
2039
01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:49.119
he's going to be held accountable for what he did.
2040
01:59:50.920 --> 01:59:55.079
Two months later, Purshouse was sentenced to life in prison
2041
01:59:55.560 --> 02:00:07.159
without prole He didn't say a word. Amy's friend Robert Coslin.
2042
02:00:07.800 --> 02:00:12.439
Justice was rendered and that's good. But we shouldn't be
2043
02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:14.840
here at all. This should never have happened to begin with.
2044
02:00:14.880 --> 02:00:17.119
The whole in our lives remains.
2045
02:00:17.279 --> 02:00:21.239
He's impacted so many people with his actions, so many people.
2046
02:00:21.439 --> 02:00:23.239
He devastated our family.
2047
02:00:27.039 --> 02:00:31.600
A family that has grown. After the verdict, Tom gathered
2048
02:00:31.680 --> 02:00:35.560
Amy's friends, the ones who have stood by them every
2049
02:00:35.680 --> 02:00:36.960
step of this journey.
2050
02:00:37.439 --> 02:00:42.880
I said, you're not our friends, your family. You're really
2051
02:00:43.439 --> 02:00:45.079
happy become our family.
2052
02:00:46.359 --> 02:00:49.239
Could you have gotten through this without them? I don't
2053
02:00:49.279 --> 02:00:51.840
think so.
2054
02:00:53.000 --> 02:00:57.079
It's a testament to the amazing life and community Amy
2055
02:00:57.159 --> 02:00:58.159
Harwick created.
2056
02:00:58.800 --> 02:01:01.119
She was really happy.
2057
02:01:01.359 --> 02:01:05.039
She was really happy that she had really gotten her
2058
02:01:05.119 --> 02:01:05.800
life together.
2059
02:01:07.039 --> 02:01:08.520
Man, we were all happy.
2060
02:01:11.560 --> 02:01:15.520
Michael Herman says he still keeps replaying that night.
2061
02:01:16.560 --> 02:01:20.720
She's gone and I'm still here. You won a second chance.
2062
02:01:20.760 --> 02:01:22.000
I'm still trying to save her.
2063
02:01:22.600 --> 02:01:26.399
Michael Herman has a lot of survivor's guilt. Oh my goodness,
2064
02:01:26.760 --> 02:01:27.920
did the exact right thing.
2065
02:01:28.279 --> 02:01:29.680
He made all the right decisions.
2066
02:01:29.960 --> 02:01:34.840
Do you feel your sister got justice.
2067
02:01:34.479 --> 02:01:35.840
I feel she did.
2068
02:01:36.119 --> 02:01:38.600
Amy's brother Chris.
2069
02:01:38.479 --> 02:01:40.760
We wish that she still could be here at it
2070
02:01:41.319 --> 02:01:44.000
to continue to help people, because that's what she's all about.
2071
02:01:46.319 --> 02:01:52.000
We lost a friend, but so many other people lost
2072
02:01:52.079 --> 02:01:52.600
a healer.
2073
02:01:52.840 --> 02:01:57.000
I think if Amy every day because she helped me
2074
02:01:57.079 --> 02:01:57.720
so much.
2075
02:01:58.000 --> 02:02:02.079
Emily Sears says she's struggling without Amy's guidance.
2076
02:02:02.720 --> 02:02:05.039
That's just so hard to feel safe when this is
2077
02:02:05.079 --> 02:02:07.720
the reality of what happened to her and what happens
2078
02:02:07.760 --> 02:02:09.119
to so many people.
2079
02:02:10.640 --> 02:02:14.720
Amy's loved ones are hoping to change that reality. After
2080
02:02:14.760 --> 02:02:19.279
her death, the petition was created to rewrite California domestic
2081
02:02:19.399 --> 02:02:25.439
violence laws, including a statute preventing restraining orders from expiring.
2082
02:02:25.840 --> 02:02:29.359
And our biggest disappointment was it lost all its impact
2083
02:02:29.560 --> 02:02:31.319
when code shut everything down.
2084
02:02:31.800 --> 02:02:36.319
Prosecutor Catherine Mariano acknowledges that there are limits to the
2085
02:02:36.439 --> 02:02:37.920
legal system.
2086
02:02:37.840 --> 02:02:39.680
And by the time he gets to our table, we're
2087
02:02:39.720 --> 02:02:43.560
in a position to act reactively rather than proactively. But
2088
02:02:43.800 --> 02:02:46.000
as a society, I think we can always do better.
2089
02:02:46.199 --> 02:02:51.239
Right after the trial, Amy's parents headed home to Pennsylvania,
2090
02:02:51.640 --> 02:02:54.319
the place where they first became a family with their
2091
02:02:54.359 --> 02:02:58.000
little girl and watched her grow into the woman admired
2092
02:02:58.399 --> 02:03:00.520
and now missed by so many.
2093
02:03:00.840 --> 02:03:09.600
What's the hardest part Just the absence, the quiet.
2094
02:03:09.640 --> 02:03:12.520
One huge void, one huge void.
2095
02:03:12.359 --> 02:03:19.800
And I miss our adventures, adventures remembered when they visit
2096
02:03:20.159 --> 02:03:23.960
Amy's grave, and I couldn't get a brighter orange.
2097
02:03:25.520 --> 02:03:28.119
I know orange was your favorite color, but this is
2098
02:03:28.159 --> 02:03:30.439
the closest I could get. We're not the same people
2099
02:03:30.479 --> 02:03:33.319
we were before, but we keep trying to be.
2100
02:03:34.199 --> 02:03:35.319
We miss you Amy.
2101
02:03:37.159 --> 02:03:38.840
Every day, We think of you.
2102
02:03:39.720 --> 02:03:41.760
Anything you wish you had been able to say to.
2103
02:03:41.720 --> 02:03:44.079
Her, just to tell her one more time that I
2104
02:03:44.199 --> 02:03:48.399
love her. I know she knew it, but I wanted
2105
02:03:48.439 --> 02:03:51.479
to be able to say it.
2106
02:04:11.880 --> 02:04:15.800
New CBS Next, a young teenager is strangled and buried alive,
2107
02:04:16.039 --> 02:04:19.840
absolutely cold blooded. Twenty years later, her family battles to
2108
02:04:19.920 --> 02:04:21.479
keep her killers behind bars.
2109
02:04:21.640 --> 02:04:22.560
We're fighting for her.
2110
02:04:22.680 --> 02:04:23.520
That's why we're here.
2111
02:04:23.960 --> 02:04:26.359
She doesn't have a voice, so we're her voice.
2112
02:04:26.800 --> 02:04:30.159
Forty eight hours is all New CBS Next and streaming
2113
02:04:30.199 --> 02:04:35.319
on Paramount Plus.
1
00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:15.679
And the mom said Scott shot Penny. And I was like,
2
00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:21.199
is she okay? And my mom was just like, no,
3
00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:22.440
She's not okay.
4
00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:26.239
Penny was a bright and trusting fifteen year old.
5
00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:28.440
She was neat. She's a neat little girl.
6
00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:32.759
But to Scott's struthers, a family friend, Penny became an obsession.
7
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:39.520
He started stalking her. There were threats. How many oh
8
00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:41.880
Scott was arrested, hospitalized.
9
00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:44.920
He's in their psychiatric board writing how cool will you
10
00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:47.240
look when I walk up and glow your brains out?
11
00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:53.200
Then the unthinkable. Aaron Moriarty has some tough questions. Are
12
00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:57.039
the doctors who treated him responsible for Penny's death? Are
13
00:00:57.079 --> 00:01:00.679
her parents and they are the familar your faces on
14
00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.039
your local news? Are they in danger?
15
00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:07.480
Nobody knows right now how many news anchors get stocked.
16
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:09.959
A stunker chased this reporter out.
17
00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:14.799
Of town, letters detailing about sexual fantasies, ultimately ending with
18
00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:16.239
me being drawn at a bathtub.
19
00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:18.719
This reporter never had a chance.
20
00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.519
To run case.
21
00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.760
Troy Roberts on being watched a little too closely? What
22
00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:25.760
does you want from her?
23
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:27.200
I don't know.
24
00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.200
Forty eight hours investigates to catch a stalker.
25
00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.840
Good evening and welcome to forty eight Hours investigates. I'm
26
00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:00.680
Leslie Stall. Penny Chang new and trusted Scott Struck. So
27
00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:04.239
did Penny's parents. Indeed, Scott Struthers was like a member
28
00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:07.000
of the family and just about the last person they
29
00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:10.080
would have ever suspected of posing a threat to their daughter.
30
00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:14.759
That's what makes this case even harder to understand. There
31
00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:17.879
were warning signs that may have been missed, and there
32
00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:21.439
may have been miscommunication too. But there is also a
33
00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.039
question hanging over this case as to whether the experts,
34
00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:29.080
the doctors are at all to blame to Penny's family,
35
00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:33.080
The answer is clear. Aaron Moriarty reports on a story
36
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:41.639
of misplaced trusts that led to tragedy.
37
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:49.039
Outside Cleveland, Ohio, located is a two to one mathematician.
38
00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:52.439
Cl Chang found what he couldn't in his native China,
39
00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:58.039
academic freedom and a culturally rich and diverse neighborhood where
40
00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:02.120
he and his wife, you want, could raise their four children.
41
00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.280
Who wanted us to have a stable, happy family, you know,
42
00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:06.840
just for us have a better life.
43
00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:11.439
Yes, Joanne Chang, the oldest I loved growing up in
44
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:12.360
Shaker Heights.
45
00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:18.080
You see children playing outside all the time. It's a
46
00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:19.280
comforting place to live.
47
00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:24.199
So are you ready? Joanne is a medical student. Sean
48
00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:28.719
is pursuing a master's degree in computer graphics watching football.
49
00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:32.719
Moren the youngest is a high school junior. And then
50
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:34.080
there was Penny.
51
00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:37.240
She is the most beautiful child that we had.
52
00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:38.960
How did you name Penny?
53
00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:39.680
Penny?
54
00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:40.599
It's Pennsylvania.
55
00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:44.520
Is a Pennsylvania who was born in Pennsylvania.
56
00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:48.280
You must have really liked Pennsylvania.
57
00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:50.919
And did she speak Chinese very well?
58
00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:55.759
She was so so Americanized.
59
00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:00.319
Yeah, she's definitely pretty much a typical American girl. I mean,
60
00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:03.520
talking to Fall for hours. She was neat. She was
61
00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:04.960
a neat little girl.
62
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.919
A child who thrived in her adopted community where no
63
00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.199
one would have predicted what happened.
64
00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:18.680
Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb. It's very diverse. There's
65
00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:23.360
a lot of old money, and I think people don't
66
00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.800
like to think things like this happen in places like that.
67
00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:28.680
You know, we've learned they do.
68
00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:32.480
Mike Tobin, a reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer, says
69
00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:35.680
the problems began for the Chang family in the summer
70
00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:39.439
of nineteen ninety eight. Penny had a summer job working
71
00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:44.279
alongside Scott Struthers, her brother's best friend since middle school.
72
00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.319
How would you describe Scott back then?
73
00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:52.639
Very shy, very quiet, you know, really odd, really, you know,
74
00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:55.759
unorthodox sense of humor. I just thought hilarious.
75
00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:00.279
Scott had almost grown up at the Chang House, went
76
00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.519
on to become Shawn's college roommate.
77
00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:05.360
She's just so nice and she's such a close friend
78
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.360
of my brothers, which.
79
00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:10.079
Is why no one was too concerned when Scott and
80
00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.399
Penny spent a lot of time together, although Penny was
81
00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:18.199
only fifteen and Scott was twenty one. Did your parents
82
00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.279
sink anything of it that they were spending a lot
83
00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:20.959
of time together?
84
00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:24.040
No? Why would they think a twenty one year old
85
00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:26.120
boy friend of my brother be a threat to my
86
00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:27.160
fifteen year old sister.
87
00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.759
But the family didn't realize how serious Scott's feelings were.
88
00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:34.199
Penny was pretty important to him.
89
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.240
Yeah, and I think you see that in the journals
90
00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:41.399
where Penny, at least for that summer, was his life.
91
00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:45.680
Scottstruthers began a journal later that year that described his
92
00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:47.040
relationship with Penny.
93
00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.519
In his journal, you see him talking about this girl,
94
00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:54.240
is this wonderful thing? And the object of his affection.
95
00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.079
The times that I had spent with Penny this summer,
96
00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.319
when things were going good and she was nice to me,
97
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:02.000
was like a dream come true. The weather was beautiful,
98
00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.839
so was she, and I was at times happier than
99
00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:06.120
I had ever been in my life.
100
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.240
There was only one problem. Penny didn't feel the same way.
101
00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:13.600
It seems like he definitely read too much into it
102
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:18.399
and really thought that, you know, she liked him, and
103
00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:19.240
I just don't think that.
104
00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:22.879
Was the case. When the summer ended and Penny began
105
00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:29.399
ignoring Scott, the Chang family phone began ringing off the
106
00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.720
hook for how many phone calls.
107
00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:33.600
A year?
108
00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:37.720
Night midnight?
109
00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.360
It made we disconnected the phone.
110
00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.079
Yeah, but things got worse.
111
00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:48.439
He tried to burn down the garage. He put glue
112
00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:53.560
my parents' gas tank. He threw like missling objects through
113
00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.360
the window, like little rocks.
114
00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:01.079
They used to show these windows. Was brought the frontal one,
115
00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.160
the biggest fronto was broken.
116
00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:11.519
Days later, the police arrested Scott Struthers. Shaker Heights Police
117
00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.319
Chief Walter you Grinnick. Would you describe Scott Struthers as
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a stalker?
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Yes, Yes, he was following her.
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He was keeping an eye on her.
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She seemed like a shy, kind young boy.
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Well, it's not so much.
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Were you worried that Scott would ever hurt her?
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I was a little, but it wasn't Overwhelmwolming.
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Did she seem scared of him at all? She didn't.
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She didn't. She was fifteen.
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Struthers was charged with telephone harassment and misdemeanor arson, but
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right before sentencing, he voluntarily admitted himself to this hospital
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for observation. Do you think Scott Struthers went to the
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Cleveland clinic because he really wanted help.
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No, I think it was a legal tactic to show
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the court, you know, I'm sorry, and I'm taking steps
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to correct my behavior, and I'm sick and I'm getting help.
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Whatever his motive, Struthers stayed here for five weeks. He
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was released on Thanksgiving Day nineteen ninety eight after doctors
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determined he was no longer a threat, even though the
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journal that Struthers began as part of his therapy here
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contained some very threatening entries.
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It's scary, you know, it's just frightening because he lays
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out what he's going to do, and you see this progression,
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this evolution in his mind of her as this sweet
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little girl to this evil object that has to be
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made to pay.
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The tone of Scott's writing becomes increasingly menacing.
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I think that my actions were a way to force
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myself to be an important part of her life, even
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though it was in a negative way. I once thought,
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forget about me, bitch, I will make you remember me forever.
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And then the one that just still to this day
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can't get over how cool and superior will you look
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when I blow your brains out into the ground. He's
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at the Cleveland Clinic in their psychiatric word writing, how
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cool will you look when I walk up and blow
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your brains out? And five months later, in broad daylight,
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across the street from the police station, that's exactly what
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he did.
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Three and a half months after being released from the
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Cleveland Clinic, at seven point thirty on a cold March morning,
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Scott Struthers stalked Penny Chang one more time as she
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walked to school. He approached her from behind and shot
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her three times in the back of the head. Penny
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was rushed to the emergency room, but it was too late.
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They bring me to to see the s to see Penny.
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I saw Penny sleep on the bed and if.
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I read the floor, ah, I know what happens.
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I checked her Puss, I found nothing.
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My mom said Scott shot Penny. And I was like,
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is she okay? And my mom was just like, no,
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she's not okay. Oh my gosh. Those words were sh
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she's not okay?
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Well, how bad off is she? So she's dead?
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This had been a best friend. Who is your reaction
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to that?
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Oh?
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Shock?
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Of course?
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That is all this worldshocking, just unbelievable.
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Six months after the shooting, Scott's brothers pled guilty to murder.
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He's now serving a sentence of twenty three years to life.
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I mean, I'm glad that he's not going to see
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like the sun come up really and I'm gonna make
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sure of that too.
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It just keeps the eyes.
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But for the Chang family, Scott isn't the only guilty party.
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Do you blame someone for Penny's death?
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The first of all ran, of course, Scottstrather. The second
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person is the person took here Scott's Strather.
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For the entire five months prior to Penny's death, Scott's
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brothers was receiving psychiatric care. First as a patient here
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at the Cleveland Clinic and then when he was released
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from a private therapist. The Changs believed these professionals could
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and should have stopped brothers from killing their daughter. They're
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suing them for twenty million dollars.
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I feel they made so much.
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Me think the case is pursued as a wrongful death case.
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Paul Kaufman is the Chang's attorney. What do you see
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as the biggest failing on the part of Cleveland Clinic.
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I think their biggest failing was in discharging him when
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they did. I mean, it's our position he still needed
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to be hospitalized.
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Everyone agrees that when Struthers first arrived at the Cleveland
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Clinic after stalking Penny and facing charges of harassment, he
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was a severely troubled young man. Do you remember meeting Scott, Yes,
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I do, forensic psychiatrist Kathleen Quinn.
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So in many ways he looked quite ordinary, although the
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concerns were extraordinary about him. What do you mean well
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that there was an issue of dangerousness?
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Doctor Quinn says Struthers exhibited a number of behaviors which
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made him a significant risk for violence, including severe anger,
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homicidal thoughts and a desire to obtain a gun.
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That resulted in an immediate Hut hospitalization and there being
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a commitment paper a drawn up.
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What's more, Struthers made no secret of his desire to
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kill Penny in his journal. But Struthers appeared to improve,
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and after just five weeks of treatment, he was discharged,
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even though hospital record show doctors still had some concerns.
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Two days before he was discharged. They didn't believe him,
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and they doubted his credibility, and he was showing no
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remorse and he was having no emotional reaction. I don't
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see how anybody could think that this young man was
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ready to be discharged.
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I've had some concerns about his veracity.
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George Tessar was the attending psychiatrists who authorized Struther's release.
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They weren't consistent concerns from day to day, and by
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the end of the evaluation, I was quite convinced that
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he was telling us the truth as he felt it.
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Then in exclude, he was a interview with forty eight hours.
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Doctor Tesser says he released Ruthers only after seeing great
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improvement in his patients.
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He no longer made those statements about wanting to kill
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her or feeling any compulsion to kill her. He was feeling.
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Better, According to Tessar, the homicidal thoughts expressed in Scott's
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journal we're all in the past tense. At one point
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in his journal, he writes, basically, I was thinking, how
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cool and superior will you look, bitch when I blow
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your brains out into the ground. You can just get
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rid of those feelings. A week or two later, well.
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I think, yeah, that's possible.
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He was not conveying the same kind of impression at
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the end of this hospitalization.
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This man's assessment at discharge was correct. It was correct
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because he didn't do anything when he was discharged.
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Attorney Jim Malone is defending the Cleveland Clinic.
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Nothing violent took place for three and a half months.
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He says, expecting psychiatrists to predict violence that far into
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the future is expecting too much.
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The Cleveland Clinic has every medical device to benefit humankind.
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The one thing they don't have is a crystal ball
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that works.
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Our clinical experience suggests that we're pretty good at it
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at predicting violence in the short term. Twenty four forty
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eight seventy two hours after an evaluation beyond that, nobody's
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very good at predicting violence.
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If the Cleveland Clinic couldn't predict that Scott Struthers would
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become a killer, what about the private therapist who picked
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up his case and saw him regularly right up until
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he bought a gun to kill Penny? Scott Struthers met
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with Rainacrell regularly for three and a half months. On
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March twelfth, nineteen ninety nine, Struthers bought a gun, took
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it to this shooting range and practice firing it. Although
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he had seen Krell two days earlier, she saw no
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sign of his escalating anger. How did RAINA. Krell not
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see that?
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I think you'd have to ask her.
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Kroll refused to talk with forty eight hours, but she
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told the courts did he ever.
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Make any threats of any kind?
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No?
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Did he ever have any evidence of recent homicidal ideation?
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No?
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Did he ever show any evidence of present dangerousness.
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No.
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He had talked about comments of feeling regret, feeling more
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personally responsible.
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He's demonstrated an interest in work.
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From your perspective, is this positive negative?
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What?
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I viewed it as positive?
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I think she looked at him as sort of the
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jilted boyfriend depression type of situation and never really got
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below the surface.
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Isn't it possible that he was such a good actor
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he really fooled all the doctors.
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Sure, it's possible, But the problem with that is that
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these doctors are the experts.
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With millions of dollars and their reputations at stake. Scott's
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Brothers doctors are fighting back by pointing the blame at
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Penny's own family.
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He's the most beautiful child we have.
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That's next just plain old fashioned evil, and there is
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scarcely anything that can be done by mental health or
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anybody else to prevent evil from having its way. Penny
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Chang was gunned down by this former patient, Scott's Brothers.
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Cleveland clinic attorney Jim Malone says doctors did all they
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could for both Struthers and the Changs, including taking the
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extraordinary step of calling the Chang family to tell them
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of Struther's release. But was that phone call sending a
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mixed message? You're discharging him because you think he's say,
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why then do you feel an obligation to inform the Changs.
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That sounds like you weren't quite sure whether he was
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saying Cleveland Clinic psychiatrist George Tessar, we.
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Thought, in a view of the comments that he had
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made and the kind of interaction he'd had with the
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Changs prior to the hospitalization, that it was only courteous
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fair to let them know that he was being discharged.
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So there was a little concern.
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There was concern that they should be informed that he
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was no longer in the hospital.
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But the Changs say that phone call led them to
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believe they no longer had to worry about Struthers.
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My dad told me, they call him Scott is no
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longer a threat to your family. And with that little comment,
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I mean actually my dad was.
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Very relieved t us to cremnd crink very much. They say,
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no problem, do you have no intention? Which, okay, he's
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possible a good boy.
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But the hospital left out an important fact. Their assessment
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of Struthers was only meant for the short term. Did
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anybody tell the Changs that. Did anybody say, Okay, today
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we think he might not be a risk, but a
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month down the road it's anybody's bet and you better
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be careful.
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No, we didn't tell the Changs that common sense would
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tell you that you don't know exactly what's going to
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happen three months down the line.
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Do you think in retrospect that warning was enough for
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the Changs.
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I don't know.
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It's certainly an important point to consider.
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Whether or not the warning was adequate is an issue
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a trial because of what happened nearly three months later.
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The Changs claimed that phone call is the reason why
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they didn't become alarmed when out of the blue Scott
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Struthers make contact again.
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Everything that happened to Scott after the summer is all
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Pennies fall. She ruined his life for her own petty amusement.
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This time it was in the form of emails. Everything
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he did with Cleveland playing dealer reporter Mike Tobin.
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The number one rule of stocking is never used your
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own phone. He didn't care if he got caught.
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He's talking about himself. The same angry rambling emails written
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in the third person were sent to Penny, her brother,
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and her father, but the Changs didn't find them threatening.
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I saw nothing dangerous in February email.
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Nothing dangerous, just angers, complaint complaining, complaint.
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Well, I don't think they believed there was anything to
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worry about, but my word. But do you have to
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hear to be worried in response.
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To the In fact, the Changs reached out to brothers
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after receiving them do anything.
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Oh, basically, you know, I said, look, okay, you've scolded
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her enough. Just leave her alone and continue your life.
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You think about Penny.
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There's lots of girls that'll house State campus.
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When you emailed him, what did you say back?
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Like teacher, I say, go back to the college. In
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media today, you are ruining yourself.
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Isn't it possible that Changs were still relying on the
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word of the hospital three months earlier. He's no longer
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a threat, and that's why they didn't react to the emails.
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I suppose it's a conceivable explanation, but a rather naive
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responds to threat.
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One month later, just days before the murder, Struther's email,
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the Changs again.
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Next time it's a March email about sixty pages, sixty
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00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:37.000
pages six zero sixty pages, like a book.
367
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.559
This time, the Changs didn't read them, thinking they were
368
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.400
simply more of Scott's harmless complaints.
369
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.880
And I saw nothing dangerous in the first few pages.
370
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:51.519
Had he read further, he would have been horrified, buried,
371
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.839
Within the sixty pages, Struthers spells out his plan to
372
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:56.640
kill Penny.
373
00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.440
I would like to take a hammer and repeatedly smash
374
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.519
her face and with it until her face is a Soupye,
375
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.880
bloody pulp. Scott's moral duty has been satisfied by just
376
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.640
sending these messages. You can never say that you didn't
377
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:11.640
know you were given the opportunity.
378
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.079
Remember that that's really craepy.
379
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:14.440
Uh.
380
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.000
He was warning them of what he was going to do,
381
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.000
and they didn't realize it.
382
00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:19.960
I thought he was doing better.
383
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:23.519
Neither did RAINA. Krell, the therapists who had been treating
384
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.200
Struthers at the same time he was writing out his
385
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.720
murderous intentions.
386
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.279
Did you, when you were treating Scott Struthers have any
387
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:31.279
information at all.
388
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:32.200
Relating to these emails?
389
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:32.400
No?
390
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:32.839
I did not.
391
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.960
Did you ever hear of them when.
392
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.160
You were treating No?
393
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.880
Did you do your very best treating Scott Struthers.
394
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.640
I did the best I could with the information I had.
395
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:44.559
You're a professional person.
396
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:46.960
You're not expecting her to be a mind reader.
397
00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:51.440
Nobody through my reader, but should know he has the intention.
398
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.880
But Cleveland Clinic attorney Jim Malone says, since only the
399
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.559
Changs knew about the emails. Only the Changs could have
400
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.960
prevented their daughter's death by notifying the police.
401
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.680
In the bottom of your heart, doctor Chang, don't you
402
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.160
know that you should have called for help, That a
403
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.359
call to the police would have stopped all of this.
404
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.039
If I read.
405
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:19.160
Email total de deafiniteit eight high car partice.
406
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:23.680
Was part of your strategy to deflect blame away from
407
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.160
the hospital and onto the check.
408
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:25.400
No.
409
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.119
I don't believe they're responsible for the death of their daughter.
410
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.200
But what I say is this, if that phone call
411
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.119
had been placed, the Shaker Heights Police Department would have
412
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.839
had this man off the streets very rapidly.
413
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.960
We probably take something to blame, right, But here they're
414
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:41.880
trying to saying that it's not their fault at all.
415
00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:44.160
What kind of all?
416
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:44.440
Right?
417
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.599
Now, it's up to the jury to decide.
418
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.079
If the doctor the psychiatrist looks at a patient and
419
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:54.720
makes a decision about a treatment plan or a discharge plan,
420
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.240
and he does that in so called good faith, then
421
00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:01.400
he's immune by law from the consequences of that decision.
422
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:03.880
I will read the verdict in this case.
423
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.920
After just two hours. The jury agrees.
424
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.319
As to the defendant Cleveland Clinic in favor of the
425
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.599
defendant Cleveland Clinic. As to the defendant, Reina Kraw in
426
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.880
favor of the defendants, Rena Krow.
427
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.359
The Changs will get nothing from the clinic or the doctors.
428
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:25.079
Where do you think the weak spot in your case was?
429
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.599
I think it's extremely difficult to win a case against
430
00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:30.400
doctors and or therapists. We've got a lot of burdens
431
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:32.400
to overcome all of the burdens around us.
432
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:34.720
What should we take from this case?
433
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:38.599
We've learned that there are profound limitations to what psychiatry
434
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.880
can do and what its onus of responsibility should be.
435
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.359
We made our decisions based on what we thought were
436
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:50.039
reasonable observations and interpretations of what we were seeing, and
437
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:52.200
it could well be that the Changs were as well.
438
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:57.839
But doctor Chang still believes the psychiatrist could have done more,
439
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.480
and since we first brought you this story, worry He's
440
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:02.680
filed an appeal for a new trial.
441
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:03.920
Penny was cured.
442
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.160
Nobody can change the situation. But I like to show
443
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.200
as many as psychiatrists do your Perferdal job care for,
444
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.279
you don't repeat such things. We don't like this happened again.
445
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.960
What advice would you have for a family that's in
446
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:20.640
your situation.
447
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:27.799
It's better to be extremely worried than to have this happen.
448
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:29.880
I'm sorry, So what you're worried was so what?
449
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:34.680
Ooh, big deal? You have a sister, you have your daughter.
450
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:51.200
Stalking happens to be an occupational hazard of this business
451
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.880
television reporting that nobody likes to talk about, but the
452
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:59.000
stalking of on air personalities is a growing concern. It's
453
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.799
even become a topic of conversation at various professional gatherings
454
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.279
among local television anchors and reporters. They are especially at
455
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.839
risk since they're often encouraged to connect with the audience
456
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:14.440
on a personal level. The trouble is, it's hard to
457
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:18.240
know who's watching. Troy Roberts has a story of some
458
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.079
local television reporters who made the headlines for all the
459
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:23.039
wrong reasons.
460
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:28.240
Just energetic meteorologist George Kessler was the top rated weatherman
461
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:30.240
in Duluth, Minnesota.
462
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.440
Look, here's satellite picture in motion. You say, George, why
463
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.240
is it so windy?
464
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.799
In all of our audience research, we saw George Kessler
465
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:38.680
as our most popular personality.
466
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.039
KBJRTV News director David jinch.
467
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.119
People felt like George Kesler was their friend.
468
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:46.720
Now the general six six o'clock.
469
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.880
News my television. You can't beat it for Russia.
470
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.839
If you're deep down inside secretly an adrenaline junkie, it's.
471
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:55.680
It's what you want to do.
472
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:56.240
I know.
473
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:57.160
Is that frozen now?
474
00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:00.880
Kessler felt right at home in Duluth with his wife,
475
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.759
Sheila and their small children. This was a perfect fit
476
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:04.720
for you, right.
477
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.440
You liked the city.
478
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.240
I love the city. The Luth is a great town.
479
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.160
You could drop a money clip in the middle of
480
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.519
the street and somebody chase after you to give it back,
481
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.599
and so you have this wonderful sense of it is.
482
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.839
It's almost childlike the security that you have here.
483
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:21.960
Snowshowers will hold up you think they're.
484
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:22.319
Just gonna die.
485
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.799
But for George Kessler, the childlike security would turn into
486
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:32.440
agony and fear in the very town he embraced at
487
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.039
the same TV station he loved. It all began to
488
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.160
unravel one day in March of two thousand and when
489
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:40.640
Kessler arrived for work.
490
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.640
It was Monday, and I was coming through the newsroom
491
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.200
pretty quickly saw that my message light was on. So
492
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.319
you're putting your stuff down, you set your voicemail to
493
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:54.880
play back, and all of a sudden it just erupted. This,
494
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.319
you know, stream of vitriol came out of the phone.
495
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:03.240
Oh man, mister, I'm not going homosexual, if you understand me.
496
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:08.200
The caller was a man Kessler had never met, forty
497
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:12.400
two year old Shawn Wayne Thorson, a psychiatric patient with
498
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:16.960
a reputation for violence. Did Sean Thorson threaten you with
499
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.160
bodily heart?
500
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:18.799
Oh?
501
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:20.799
Yes, in no uncertain terms.
502
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.359
The next time you call me, preferably gave it the
503
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:24.039
weather man.
504
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.799
I'm going to be the.
505
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:26.680
Joke.
506
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.359
He was seeing George's weather and he felt that George
507
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.519
was saying things to him. I'm seeing things threatening things.
508
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:35.640
He felt George was threatening him through the TV.
509
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.799
Yeah, this is Sean again, and I'm not going to
510
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:42.319
accept your apology. You happen to be one of those
511
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.799
people who can dish it out but can't take it
512
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.200
on it yourself. Well, you're going to find out the
513
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:49.559
hard way of my friend. I can definitely do something
514
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.519
about it, and God bestowed upon myself the power to
515
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:52.799
do so.
516
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:58.440
Thorson ignored warnings from police, even a restraining order, to
517
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:02.079
stop making the phone calls. For that, he spent four
518
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:06.039
months in a mental institution, but after he was released,
519
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:10.240
Thorson went straight back to the phone.
520
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:13.240
And your math ain't getting away what you've done to me,
521
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:15.519
especially for calling your dogs the police on me.
522
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.279
Over the next year, Thorson was committed and released for
523
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:24.279
mental illness two more times. Incredibly, there was nothing more
524
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.160
Kessler or the police could do.
525
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.960
The way the laws are, you can't necessarily have security
526
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:35.160
in a situation like this until something really bad happens.
527
00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:40.400
Do you think, given the opportunity, Sean Thorson would have
528
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:40.880
killed you.
529
00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:44.240
If he was in the grips of a delusion and
530
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:49.480
I happen to be available to him, Yes, without a doubt.
531
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.559
The question really is how many stalkers does a celebrity have,
532
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.480
not if they have any.
533
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.680
Forensic psychiatrist doctor Park Deets has spent years in investigating
534
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:05.400
and testifying against serial killers and stalkers, including Jeffrey Dahmer
535
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:09.640
and John Hinckley. Deete says stalking of television news personalities
536
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.759
is an occupational hazard that few in the TV industry
537
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:14.960
are willing to discuss.
538
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.640
The illusion of intimacy is inherent in the medium. It's
539
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.960
inevitable that some viewers are going to be attracted to.
540
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.039
This takebook satellite picture in motion.
541
00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:29.279
And while George Kessler's ordeal wasn't unique, stalker's more frequently
542
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:29.960
target women.
543
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:37.359
The ideal victim is a sweet, kind, gentle, pretty, accepting,
544
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:43.160
approachable virgin that allows many men in the audience to
545
00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:44.960
have the view she's meant for me.
546
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:47.440
Good afternoon, and welcome to New seven At noon.
547
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.119
I'm Melanie Moon, anchorwoman.
548
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.759
Melanie Moon was a rising star at WDBJ in Roanoke, Virginia,
549
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.160
when in nineteen ninety six she started getting dark suggestive
550
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:01.160
letters from not one, but several.
551
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:06.920
Viewers, letters detailing about sexual fantasies and ultimately ending with
552
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.559
me being drown at a bathtub?
553
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.799
What did these letters do to you?
554
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.440
Psychologically, emotionally give you nightmares?
555
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.599
For months, I would take a shower with the bathroom
556
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.960
door locked. It would be at the grocery store. If
557
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.079
someone looked at me strangely for a second, I would think,
558
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.799
maybe that's them.
559
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.160
By the fall of nineteen ninety seven, the FBI was
560
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.559
searching for Melanie Moon stalkers. Then she began hearing from
561
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:35.799
forty seven year old David Lee Duff.
562
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.359
The first couple letters I got, he would call me
563
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:43.240
the Goddess of Dawn, and you and I are alone
564
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:46.680
together each morning in my room. They got to things like,
565
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:49.440
I like what you're wearing today. I know you were
566
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.960
wearing it from me, I saw you smiling at me today.
567
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:53.680
Thank you.
568
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.240
And then he sent me an engagement ring.
569
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.160
Even after all she'd been through, Melanie Moon didn't think
570
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.799
David Lee Duff was not to harm her. After all,
571
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.960
he had only sent what she believed were fairly innocent
572
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:10.000
tokens of his affection. But on November fifth, nineteen ninety seven,
573
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:13.920
Duff crossed the line and came to visit Melanie at work.
574
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.920
The confrontation was caught on videotape. Duff was told to leave,
575
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.720
and he did so without incident. Roanoke police then warned
576
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.839
him to stop contacting Moon, but the harassment didn't stop.
577
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.240
He continued to write letters, saying things like they can't
578
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.720
keep us apart. I'll wear jail house orange if.
579
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:35.039
I have to.
580
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.400
It almost came to that. In March of nineteen ninety eight,
581
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:46.319
Melanie Moon saw her stalker for the first time at
582
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.880
the Roanoke City Courthouse.
583
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:55.960
This takes away even more of your feeling unsecure and safe.
584
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.799
David Lee Duff was convicted of stalking, but all he
585
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.680
got was a six month suspended sentence.
586
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:05.319
Or which goool has some breaking news.
587
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:08.960
Melanie Moon got out of Roanoke, taking a new job
588
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.400
in another city where she's better prepared for unwelcome.
589
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.160
Attention, tear gas on a keychain.
590
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.400
Carrying tear gas on her keychain, and a stun gun
591
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:19.160
in her purse.
592
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:21.640
Haven't had to use it yet.
593
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.839
Parkdeed says he understands why she has.
594
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:30.160
Nobody knows right now how many news anchors get stocked.
595
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.079
The likelihood is that for good looking females on the news,
596
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.079
nightly hits one hundred percent.
597
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:44.680
It's a Warningdeed says that not enough television personalities take seriously.
598
00:33:45.799 --> 00:34:04.680
Emergency. Tat you emergency, Well, I'm.
599
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.279
Just wondering if you guys could send out somebody to
600
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:09.639
check out my neighbor upstairs.
601
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:12.840
I'll hear a lot of something on the floor really loud.
602
00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:18.239
January twenty second, nineteen ninety eight, at eight thirty am,
603
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.639
Michael Goodman calls nine to one one in Temple, Texas.
604
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:26.960
Okay, and it's gonna be the apartment in two forty six.
605
00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.360
Yeah, her name's Catherine Sidney.
606
00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:31.920
Okay, does she live alone up there?
607
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:32.480
Oh?
608
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:33.199
Yeah she does.
609
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:38.360
Minutes later, police arrive at the Wildwood apartments and make
610
00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:44.599
a horrifying discovery popular local TV reporter Catherine Dettman's nude
611
00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:46.639
body on the floor of her bedroom.
612
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:49.800
Details are sketchy at this point, but here's.
613
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:50.079
What we know.
614
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:52.719
The thirty six year old Debtman had been on the
615
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.159
verge of an important career move. She was taking a
616
00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.119
new job at a much larger TV station in Dallas.
617
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:03.719
This be her last day of small town life in Temple, Texas.
618
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:07.440
It was common for her to in the morning get up,
619
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.960
let the cat out, and leave the door slightly ajar
620
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:12.760
so the cat could come in and out while she
621
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:14.880
went about making coffee getting ready to.
622
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:15.320
Go to work.
623
00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:19.159
Assistant Ta Murph Bledsoe.
624
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.920
The evidence appeared that she had come out of the shower,
625
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.239
she made her a noise and come out in a
626
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.440
robe or a towel, and there was a confrontation.
627
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:29.840
Homeside.
628
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:33.880
It was an extremely violent attack.
629
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.400
Temple Police Sergeant Keith Reid.
630
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.320
She had fifteen to sixteen stab wounds.
631
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.920
About half.
632
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:52.400
The suspect was twenty one year old neighbor Anthony Gary Silvestri.
633
00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:56.280
Police found him hiding in Catherine Duptman's bedroom.
634
00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:00.559
His clothes were covered in blood and he had on
635
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.679
his fingers in his hands.
636
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:07.000
Friends of Catherine Deptman say Sylvestri had been stalking her.
637
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:11.000
One coworker told us Catherine had complained to him that
638
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.800
Sylvestri was following her at the apartment complex and showing
639
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.000
up in her car when she came and left home.
640
00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:19.440
She told me about this young guy asking her out
641
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:21.639
at her apartment complex when she had gone to check
642
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.039
her mail.
643
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.840
Yolanda Johnson was a receptionist at the station where Katherine
644
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.480
worked and a close friend. She remembers Catherine mentioning Silvestri
645
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.400
by name.
646
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.239
He had told her that he had seen her on
647
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.239
TV and thought she was a very beautiful lady.
648
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:36.599
She confided on you.
649
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.280
Yes.
650
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:42.360
Paula Brown considered Catherine Deptman her best friend. She says
651
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.679
Deptman was a trusting person and just didn't recognize Silvestri's
652
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:48.760
interests as potentially dangerous.
653
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:50.360
She would have said something.
654
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.880
I mean she would call when her stomach hurt if
655
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.199
someone were after her.
656
00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:00.320
We would have known that Deptman's naivete doesn't surprise part
657
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.679
Deats who says. Many on air personalities aren't even aware
658
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:05.679
they're being stalked.
659
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.760
Most station managers don't even give the news anchors all
660
00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:15.079
their mail or all their email. Very few stations have
661
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:18.639
adequate screening of who gets on the premises or do
662
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:23.719
the things for their talent that can help protect them.
663
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:27.840
Anthony Gary Silvestri pled guilty to the murder of Catherine
664
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:31.719
Dettman and is serving a forty years to life prison sentence.
665
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:34.679
Is that the wrong place, at the wrong time, and
666
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.320
I got mad and I lost my temper.
667
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:41.880
Police searched Silvestri's apartment and found this pair of binoculars,
668
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:45.679
which they believe he used to spy on Debtman, and
669
00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:49.639
a friend of Silvestri's told authorities that Silvestri had been
670
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:50.239
watching her.
671
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:54.400
Silvestri had taken him to the part of the apartment
672
00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:56.400
where he could look out across the courtyard and see
673
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.360
a window of Catherine's apartment.
674
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.280
What did he say as he's looking through the binoculars.
675
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.639
She's really fine. She looks like a model.
676
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:10.880
What did you want from her? I don't know.
677
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.679
She really believed that if she was kind and accepting
678
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:21.639
that people would treat her well. I think that was
679
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.239
her desire, and I think that was her belief and
680
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:25.679
her mistake and her mistake.
681
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.800
It's a bad night out there, folks. There's no way
682
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:31.159
around it.
683
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:35.440
Temperature and Duluth, Minnesota, whether man George Kessler heard about
684
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.079
what happened to Catherine Dettman.
685
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:39.960
Yeah, this is Sean again. I'm really not afraid of
686
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:40.440
you people.
687
00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:44.639
And after enduring nearly a year of Sean Thorson's menacing
688
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:49.440
phone calls, he made a drastic decision. Kessler quit his
689
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.320
job and no longer works in television.
690
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.760
And I said, you know, this is not something that's
691
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:55.800
going away.
692
00:38:56.440 --> 00:39:00.679
In his own twisted way, he wanted you to walk
693
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.920
away from your job and he accomplished that.
694
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:06.360
Yes, he won.
695
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.159
We have understand that he wasn't doing it out of malice.
696
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:11.159
Doesn't matter.
697
00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:15.360
He won, right, Yes he did.
698
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:27.320
In the last decade or so, all fifty states have
699
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.800
passed anti stalking laws. At least a dozen states make
700
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.559
stalking an automatic felony, and by no means is it
701
00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:36.400
mainly celebrities who are victims.
702
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:38.079
If you feel you're.
703
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.639
Being followed or threatened, report it to the police, tell
704
00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:44.800
a friend, and keep a record of it. That could
705
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:48.280
all be crucial to staying safe. No one wants to
706
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.440
go through life looking over their shoulder, but experts say
707
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.239
a little healthy suspicion could be the first step to
708
00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:59.719
stop a stalker. That's forty eight hours investigates.
709
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:51.639
One of my friends mom had texted me because she
710
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.880
lived pretty close to Grapevine late and she was like,
711
00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:55.760
look what happened.
712
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.320
Developing story right now.
713
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:00.880
A body found in the banks of grape Vine Lake.
714
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:06.559
Nothing happens in grape Vine nothing except for what he did.
715
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.079
The victim was identified as Jacqueline Vandergriff.
716
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:16.119
Everyone my name is Jacqueline Vandergriff, but friends call me Jackie.
717
00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:19.199
Jackie Vandergriff was twenty four years of age.
718
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:23.119
I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University
719
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:27.320
and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness.
720
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.480
And just beyond this area where the shade is pretty
721
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.800
much hitting, is where we had our crime scene. There
722
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.239
are a lot of things that will shock you, and
723
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.119
this is by far the worst thing I have seen.
724
00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:47.599
My manager texts me Charles has just been arrested. I
725
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.880
felt like the world was spinning, like everything was out
726
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:51.559
of control.
727
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:56.400
To believe that. Last Tuesday, Jacqueline Vandergriff met up with
728
00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:00.920
Charles Bryant at a bar in Denton. Allen's video also
729
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:04.599
cell phone pings all put vander Griff and Bryant together.
730
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:10.519
I remember him just being kind of quiet. I immediately said,
731
00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:13.360
there's no way they have the wrong guy. There's no
732
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:14.239
way that he did this.
733
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.800
Are you telling me there's no evidence that Charles Bryant
734
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.800
killed Jackie Vandergriff.
735
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.719
Not direct evidence.
736
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.760
This is kind of my calling dealing with these really
737
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.079
strange cases, the serial killer. It's the ritualistic killings.
738
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:41.719
Hey, how you doing, Jim home with the range life
739
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:42.480
good today or not?
740
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.679
This is not a normal homicide.
741
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:51.000
Yeah, it just it all seemed to started with Caitlin.
742
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:54.360
How screwed up were you?
743
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:54.960
From Caitlin?
744
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:01.800
In the early days, it was good. After that first month,
745
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.320
that's when I started to see these warning signs that
746
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:09.840
he was manipulative, very controlling. I just told him I
747
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:13.360
can't do this anymore. This isn't working, this is over.
748
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.760
He flipped out.
749
00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.960
He showed up at your dorm room out of the blue.
750
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:22.440
You never gave him the address.
751
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.400
No, he didn't trust in his mind.
752
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:28.079
He was seeking revenge, warrned that we got his for
753
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:31.280
stalking on his ex girlfriend who had called the police
754
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:31.760
on him.
755
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:36.079
How he was stalking me was completely related to Jackie
756
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:36.960
Vandergriff's staff.
757
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:45.239
There's some similarities on the way that Vandergriff looks and
758
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.599
the way that Bryan's ex girlfriend look.
759
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:53.079
Do you think there's a chance of possibility that he
760
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:56.719
walked into this bar and saw somebody reminded him of
761
00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:00.960
you and took his rage on her.
762
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:04.639
Most definitely. I think that he really wanted to kill me.
763
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:06.440
I think that he wanted me dead.
764
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.000
When I first arrived on the scene, I saw a
765
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.880
lot of police cars, saw fire trucks, There was a
766
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:01.800
lot of activity.
767
00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:08.159
It was September fourteenth, twenty sixteen, just before dawn when
768
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.119
John Luna, a captain with the grape Vine Police Department,
769
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:15.360
responded to a call about a gruesome discovery here at
770
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.159
grape Vine Lake.
771
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:20.960
Just to offer the worn footpath, you have an area
772
00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:24.559
that's pretty well overgrown with weeds, but you could clearly
773
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.199
see a small area that was burned. Just beyond where
774
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:31.880
I'm standing. There was a body that was obviously charred.
775
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:33.079
It had been set on fire.
776
00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:36.760
The body found inside a blue kiddie pool was so
777
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.719
badly damaged that police could not determine the most basic
778
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:42.159
facts about the victim.
779
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.880
We didn't know if that was an adult or a child,
780
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:47.400
male or a female.
781
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:52.239
The next day, using fingerprints, police were able to identify
782
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:56.400
the victim. It was Jackie Vandergriff, a twenty four year
783
00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:01.039
old nutrition major at Texas Women's University in nearby Denton.
784
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:05.519
I chose this major because I realized the importance of
785
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:07.519
nutrition and just overall health.
786
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:10.840
We're both named Jacqueline, named after Jacqueline Kennedy.
787
00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:15.920
One of Jackie Vandergriff's closest friends, Jackie Tan. They met
788
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:16.639
in high school.
789
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:19.719
Ever since then we were Jackie Squared, and I loved it.
790
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:23.199
She made me feel like I could be myself and
791
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.760
just be goofy and funny.
792
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:30.079
Jackie Tan remembers her friend as a good student who
793
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.440
was focused and trusting.
794
00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:35.920
That girl, smartest girl I've known.
795
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.800
She had her whole life of the head er her.
796
00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:46.360
She had plans, Me and my detectives. We went out
797
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:54.679
there for her memorial service and sorry.
798
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.679
For Captain Luna. The brutality of this crime hit close
799
00:46:58.719 --> 00:46:59.119
to home.
800
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.519
Could have just as easily been my daughter that this
801
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:03.039
happened to.
802
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:08.719
Jackie spent the last evening of her life in Denton
803
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:13.039
with this man. Police didn't know his identity right away,
804
00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:16.280
but this woman knew him very well.
805
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:20.159
He would always give me flowers, always, especially if he
806
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:21.400
had something to be sorry about.
807
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.840
Charles Bryant lived some twenty miles away, but he had
808
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.800
been making frequent visits to Denton trying to rekindle a
809
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:35.119
relationship with his ex girlfriend, Caitlin Mathis, who had recently
810
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:38.440
moved there to attend the University of North Texas.
811
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.639
He was just trying to win me back, and I
812
00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:43.239
was just like, nothing is going to work.
813
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:48.079
Caitlin's involvement with Bryant had begun three months earlier in
814
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.800
June in the town of Grapevine, when it came into
815
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.599
the restaurant where Caitlin was working as a server.
816
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:57.039
The day that I met him was the day after
817
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:03.719
I graduated high school. Lots of muscles and tattoos, which
818
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:05.960
kind of interested me at the time.
819
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:11.039
Bryant was then twenty nine, working as a bartender and
820
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:16.519
personal trainer. You're eighteen he's twenty nine. He's got muscles
821
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:21.400
and tattoos and must have made your mother crazy.
822
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:26.519
Yeah, extremely crazy in a good way though. Yeah, she
823
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:27.280
cared about me.
824
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.039
Being a mother of adult children is a different role.
825
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:37.679
You have to let go for them to fly away
826
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:41.119
and grow up with you.
827
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:45.719
Caitlyn is the youngest of Karen Halsey's four children. She
828
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:47.159
says Caitlyn was hard to.
829
00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:51.840
Miss fireball, you know, when she's in the house. She
830
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:55.920
never walked anywhere, She ran everywhere.
831
00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:00.559
And Caitlyn ran headlong into the relationship with Charles Brian
832
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.920
that summer of twenty sixteen. One of their regular date
833
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.239
spots was at the park by Grapevine Lake, where this
834
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.880
picture was taken. When Karen learned about the relationship, she
835
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.760
asked Caitlyn to show her a picture of him.
836
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:23.840
I got this feeling just deep inside to my bones,
837
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.360
an evil feeling. And I said, he's going to hurt you,
838
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:30.199
He's going to do something bad.
839
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:31.320
Wow.
840
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:34.559
And she's like, Oh, he's nice, he's good to me.
841
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:36.440
He makes me feel like an adult.
842
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:40.119
Were you thinking to yourself, you're eighteen, you're too.
843
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:40.800
Young to know.
844
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:45.360
Yes, But I didn't want to insult her.
845
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:49.639
Within weeks, Caitlyn was having serious doubts of her own
846
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:50.440
about Brian.
847
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:54.280
That's when I started to see these warning signs that
848
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:57.920
he was manipulative. He was a bit of an artist, narcissist.
849
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.360
He thought very highly of himself. He would say things like, oh,
850
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.519
you'll never find anyone better than me. It was toxic
851
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:08.039
and he was toxic.
852
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:12.920
In mid August twenty sixteen, Caitlyn broke up with Brian.
853
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.679
She thought that was the last she'd see of him,
854
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.360
but the next day he showed up uninvited at her
855
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:21.440
mother's house.
856
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.519
And somehow he convinced me to get back with him.
857
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:27.320
He was trying to say, oh, I can work on
858
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:31.679
this and I can be better, and making all these promises.
859
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:36.239
But Caitlyn realized she wasn't interested in promises.
860
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.199
That was one of the things that my mom taught me.
861
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.480
People do not change. You can't change someone. At that point,
862
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.760
I was just waiting for the perfect time to end things.
863
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:50.440
A little more than a week later, after Caitlyn moved
864
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.480
away to school, she told Brian it was over again.
865
00:50:55.599 --> 00:51:00.159
Later that night, police found him on campus.
866
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:03.199
By sheer coincidence, I had made a traffic stop and
867
00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:04.599
he was driving that vehicle.
868
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.360
Captain Jeremy Polk was then a lieutenant for the unt
869
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:12.480
campus Police. He pulled Brian over early in the morning
870
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:13.840
of August twenty fourth.
871
00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:16.239
I thought he was an intoxicated driver by the way
872
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:18.039
he was driving, and that was my focus.
873
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:20.239
So right now i'ma have to place you on, you know,
874
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.239
a race, so kid, you just may see.
875
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:23.920
It's all good.
876
00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:27.679
Bryant was not over the legal limit. He was charged
877
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.440
with a few outstanding traffic tickets and they let him go.
878
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:36.480
Later that same day, he was back on Caitlin's campus again.
879
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:39.679
He actually knocked on the door of my dorm room.
880
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.719
He didn't know prior to where I lived, and he said, oh,
881
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:44.840
your name was on the door.
882
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:46.360
Did that creep you out?
883
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.760
It did? At that point I was scared.
884
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:53.000
Caitlin got him out of there and called campus police.
885
00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:57.039
Captain Polk recognized Bryan's name on the report and went
886
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.880
along to interview Caitlin the next day.
887
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:04.400
She told us things like, I just did not like
888
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.639
the way Charles spoke to me. I did not like
889
00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:08.800
the way he treated me, and I made that choice
890
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:10.519
then and there. You know, I would do everything I
891
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.119
could to help her with this situation.
892
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:18.400
Polk issued a no trespass order banning Charles Bryant from
893
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:23.360
the UNT campus, but once again Brian she would not
894
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.320
take no for an answer.
895
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.039
It's the biggest fear I have as a police officer
896
00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:33.400
sometimes is emotion, because emotion drives people to do things
897
00:52:33.400 --> 00:52:48.760
you would never imagine.
898
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:54.559
It was my first stay there, and he walked through
899
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:58.039
the door, and my heart just dropped to the bottom
900
00:52:58.079 --> 00:52:58.760
of my stomach.
901
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.920
It was August thirty first, twenty sixteen, a week since
902
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:06.920
Charles Bryan had tracked Caitlyn Mathis down at.
903
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:07.840
Her new dorm.
904
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.079
Now he was invading her space again, coming into her
905
00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:14.719
a new restaurant on her first day of work.
906
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:17.239
Well, I was like, I just want you to leave.
907
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:18.800
What did he say to that?
908
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.519
He didn't really say anything. He looked upset. My new
909
00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:25.960
coworkers they were like, yeah, he was here yesterday looking
910
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:26.239
for you.
911
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:32.280
Caitlyn asked her manager to keep Brian out, but her
912
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:34.599
manager said there was nothing he could do.
913
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.360
I can't work here. I don't feel safe enough to
914
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:39.880
work here.
915
00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.199
Caitlyn went back to her old job a half hour's
916
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:47.000
drive away. Her mother found it all hard to watch
917
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:48.000
from a distance.
918
00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:52.800
I said come home. It was my motherly instinct to
919
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:55.599
protect her, and in order to protect her, I had
920
00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:58.280
to have her with me, but.
921
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:02.400
Caitlyn thought she'd be safe in her door. A week later,
922
00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:05.719
on September sixth, what would have been their three month anniversary,
923
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:08.880
Bryant was back yet again.
924
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:13.079
He showed up to my dorm, knocked on my door,
925
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.000
and at this point I was shaking. I'm all alone.
926
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:19.960
I actually hid in my sweet mate's closet.
927
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:21.199
You hit Yes.
928
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.239
When I was on the phone with the police, They're like,
929
00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:25.559
we can't hear you. You need to speak up, and
930
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:27.280
I was just afraid that he was going to hear
931
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.159
my voice. I did hear him say, Caitlin, I know
932
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:32.119
you're in there, and just open up. I have something
933
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:35.599
for you. And I'm like, God, what what do you
934
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.119
have for me? I don't want it.
935
00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:44.800
Bryant left flowers, then the two page letter. When police arrived,
936
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:46.320
he was gone.
937
00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:49.800
I had heard him say he it's Charles sampsoning for you.
938
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:51.039
Oh for sure it was him.
939
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.760
Yeah, I know it's here, twenty seven myself before forty.
940
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:57.880
Three police found him outside ten minutes later.
941
00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:01.519
Yes, we'll hear question now.
942
00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:02.960
In running clothes.
943
00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.480
And arrested him for trespassing.
944
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:07.920
So you know you're not supposed to be up that.
945
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:13.760
Brian posted bond and was released within hours. Although Caitlyn
946
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:17.559
had already blocked him on her phone, email, and social media,
947
00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:21.239
he created a new email address and wrote to her
948
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:24.800
later that same day. Here I am heartbroken and with
949
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:28.599
a criminal record for bringing the girl I love flowers.
950
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:32.000
That's when it became really serious for me. If an
951
00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:35.880
actual physical arrest doesn't stop the behavior, then you're you
952
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:36.920
know something is wrong.
953
00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:42.599
Captain Polpe helped Caitlyn get an emergency protective order, and
954
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.760
because Brian had kept trying to reach her after his arresting,
955
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.800
Charles Polk had his officers go to Bryan's house the
956
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:55.840
next day and charge him yet again, this time for stalking.
957
00:55:56.599 --> 00:55:59.360
This was his third arrest in fourteen days.
958
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.119
I told him if he continued to communicate with Caitlin,
959
00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:07.360
I would use every email, I would use every text message,
960
00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.960
I would use every phone call as a reason to
961
00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:11.039
have him re arrested.
962
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:15.000
Two days later, Bryant posted a five thousand dollars bond
963
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:16.639
and got out of jail.
964
00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:21.760
He was telling his roommate that I was the crazy
965
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.800
one in this relationship. So all of his friends were
966
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.480
kind of coming at me and they were like, why
967
00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:30.920
you need to like drop these charges against him.
968
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:35.119
By September thirteenth, Bryant was back in Denton, just a
969
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.679
half mile from Kaitlyn's dorm, in an area she had
970
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:41.000
told him about back when they were still dating.
971
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:44.039
I was talking about going up to Fries Street and
972
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:45.440
like meeting new people.
973
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:48.639
Bryant went to a Frey Street public house that night
974
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:53.199
at about seven pm. An hour later, Jackie Vandergriff walked in,
975
00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.920
asked about a job, and ended up in a conversation
976
00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:02.960
with the bartender and Charles bryn About forty five minutes later,
977
00:57:03.079 --> 00:57:06.440
Jackie posted a message on her Twitter, I'm glad I
978
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.280
decided to get off tender and walk to a bar.
979
00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:13.159
Jackie's friend, Jackie Todd.
980
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:18.960
Jackie was a very social person. Whenever she went out,
981
00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:23.239
she would make friends with everybody. And it wasn't even flirty,
982
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.760
it wasn't anything, you know. She was talking to the bartender,
983
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:27.920
talking to other people.
984
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.679
At about nine o'clock, Jackie left with Bryant, had the bartender.
985
00:57:33.559 --> 00:57:37.039
She and Bryant went to another bar nearby and started
986
00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:41.119
talking to a group of women. By nine forty five,
987
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:46.480
it was raining and everyone was headed out. Jackie left
988
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:47.880
with Charles Bryant.
989
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.400
I feel like she felt comfortable enough with him that
990
00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:54.159
night because she had been hanging out with him for
991
00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:57.159
so long that she was like, hey, well whatever, he's
992
00:57:57.199 --> 00:57:59.280
just going to drop me off. It's not that far
993
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:00.920
and I'll be good.
994
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:06.920
Once in his car, Bryant stopped at a convenience store.
995
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:11.840
This was the last time Jackie Vandergriff was seen alive.
996
00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:16.320
The day after she was found dead, there was a
997
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:19.719
new post on her Twitter. Never knew I could feel
998
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:20.000
like this.
999
00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:22.679
It was just really bizarre.
1000
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.480
Police suspected it was a message from her killer, and
1001
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:28.800
they knew they had to move quickly to id de
1002
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:31.920
man Jackie had been with. They had some luck when
1003
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:34.840
they tracked down the women Jackie met that night.
1004
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:38.920
One of the friends that was with her had gotten
1005
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:43.199
a business card from this person because he was a
1006
00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:44.280
fitness instructor.
1007
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:49.679
Now the Grapevine Police had Charles Bryant's name. They learned
1008
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:51.639
about that restraining order.
1009
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:56.320
So in my eyes, that played into him as being
1010
00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:57.320
a good suspect.
1011
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:02.559
Grapevind Police old Captain Polk, who was in the middle
1012
00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:03.480
of a road race.
1013
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:06.719
The first thing he told me was Charles Bryant was
1014
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:10.199
their main suspect in Jackie's murder, and I immediately just
1015
00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:12.000
sat down on a park bench in the middle of
1016
00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:12.440
the race.
1017
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:17.440
It floored me Bryant was emerging as a strong suspect,
1018
00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:21.920
but Grapevine police did not have physical evidence connecting him
1019
00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:26.239
to Jackie's death, So for now, Bryant was free and
1020
00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:29.280
Polk was worried about what he might do next.
1021
00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:32.000
I call Caitlin and I just asked, where are you?
1022
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:34.400
I was like, does this have to do with the
1023
00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.599
murder that happened in grape Vine? And He's like, I
1024
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:42.280
can't tell. I can't specify that to you, Caitlin, but
1025
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:43.639
are you safe right now?
1026
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:44.920
And what did you say?
1027
00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:46.440
I said, I think so.
1028
00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:52.239
She might have been wrong. In the days after Jackie's murder,
1029
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.679
Charles Bryant sent Caitlin several emails, including this picture, writing
1030
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:00.920
on it first kiss under this tree, once.
1031
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:01.519
Upon a time.
1032
01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.440
That photo was taken at Grapevine Lake.
1033
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:08.159
He might have taken that picture that same day that
1034
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:09.159
Jackie was killed.
1035
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:27.440
It was September twenty sixteen, and Caitlin mathis Charles Bryan's
1036
01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.920
sex's girlfriend was very worried he might have been involved
1037
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:34.960
in the brutal murder at Grapevine Lake just days before.
1038
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:38.440
I was waiting for more news to come out, because
1039
01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:41.880
at that point they hadn't even arrested him yet.
1040
01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:43.920
Were you worried he was going to come after you?
1041
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:48.039
I was. I thought that's exactly what he was going
1042
01:00:48.079 --> 01:00:48.280
to do.
1043
01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:53.519
The emails in picture Brian had recently sent Caitlin were
1044
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:55.639
proof that he was still thinking about her in the
1045
01:00:55.719 --> 01:00:59.480
days after Jackie was killed, but they were also proof
1046
01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:00.559
of something else.
1047
01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:04.760
It was prohibited for Charles to communicate with her in
1048
01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:07.039
any manner, and if he did, he would have been
1049
01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:08.000
violating that order.
1050
01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.800
Captain Polk thought they could use those violations to help
1051
01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:15.719
the Grapevine police. He didn't have enough to make an
1052
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:16.960
arrest yet.
1053
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:19.239
So I told the detective, we can get a warrant
1054
01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:22.079
signed on some evidence we just got and at least,
1055
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.440
you know, get him off the street.
1056
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.519
You go about Charles, you go to Dean Charleston, Okay.
1057
01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:32.960
Charles Bryant was arrested on September eighteenth for violating Caitlin's
1058
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:37.079
restraining order. Grapevine detectives were hoping they'd soon find more
1059
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.039
evidence connecting him to Jackie's death.
1060
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.159
He's brought to the Grayvine Police Department for an interview,
1061
01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:48.440
and right away he's beginning to distance himself from having
1062
01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:51.719
any almost any interaction with Jackie.
1063
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:56.440
Recognize who she is, he said, a bar.
1064
01:01:57.320 --> 01:02:00.719
And at the same time we began serving search warrant
1065
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:02.079
for his residence.
1066
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:09.639
What can you tell me about her? That's about it.
1067
01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:12.480
It had been four days since Jackie's body was found,
1068
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.519
plenty of time to dispose of any possible evidence, but
1069
01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:19.840
Captain Luna at Grapevine p D says they found a
1070
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:24.840
lot at Bryant's home, including a large military style knife.
1071
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:25.840
You know what.
1072
01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:29.000
The purse was found in there too.
1073
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:32.360
Brian had no way to answer for any of it,
1074
01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:36.400
including two more items police found while he was in custody,
1075
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:40.800
video of him buying a shovel the night Jackie disappeared,
1076
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.800
and a kittie pool missing from his backyard that matched
1077
01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:47.320
the one Jackie's body was found in.
1078
01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:50.199
We have video of you with this girl.
1079
01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:52.119
I should have been here at the bar.
1080
01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:57.800
You're walking around Walmart at four o'clock and along and buying.
1081
01:02:57.559 --> 01:03:01.199
A shovel, uncomfortably, He's found.
1082
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:06.480
Dead in a pool that came from your backyard.
1083
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:08.719
He even got to the point at the end of
1084
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:12.000
his interview with our detective where he said, well, I
1085
01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:14.840
must have done it. I don't remember doing anything.
1086
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:16.880
Everything points me it's like I had to.
1087
01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.760
Have done it, and open and shutcase. Not even close.
1088
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:26.320
Although there was overwhelming evidence that Brian had disposed of
1089
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:30.000
Jackie's body, there was no evidence yet that confirmed how
1090
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.199
Jackie had died, way that Bryan had killed her.
1091
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:35.920
And that's when they reached out to me and asked
1092
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:37.880
if I could come in and spend some time with
1093
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.360
him and interview him and see what I could.
1094
01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:43.960
Get, because you have an expertise in dealing with this
1095
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.159
kind of personality.
1096
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:48.519
Right, this is kind of my calling.
1097
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:51.719
Jim Holland is the senior member of an elite team
1098
01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:56.239
of Texas Rangers, a select division of the Texas State Police.
1099
01:03:56.440 --> 01:04:01.039
He specializes in interviewing some of the country's most prolificers and
1100
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:07.000
analyzing their thoughts and Charles Bryant seemed to fit the
1101
01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:12.440
bill Jackie's body had been dismembered before being set on fire.
1102
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:16.559
How do you begin to understand a mind that would
1103
01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:17.119
do that.
1104
01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:20.599
A lot of these people actually want to tell you.
1105
01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:22.239
They want to tell someone.
1106
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.599
At first, Bryant kept to his claim that he didn't
1107
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:27.480
remember a thing.
1108
01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:30.320
Yeah, it's crazy, they don't remember me in this guote.
1109
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:34.760
The idea that he doesn't remember doing it. No, it's
1110
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.000
absolute nonsense.
1111
01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:41.400
So you knew Charles Bryant remembered exactly what had happened.
1112
01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:45.719
Oh, yes, absolutely, And your job was just to pull
1113
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:46.400
that out of him.
1114
01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:49.360
Right, you know you're not a violin due you haven't
1115
01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:51.400
haven't really been in trouble.
1116
01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:54.559
Hollin says his strategy was to try to make friends
1117
01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:56.679
with Bryant and get him talking.
1118
01:04:57.239 --> 01:04:59.679
You obviously work out. I mean, you're stud right.
1119
01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:02.239
You don't want him to look at you as a
1120
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:04.320
law enforcement officer. You want him to think of you
1121
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:07.360
as a friend, a campandre, a drinking buddy. You know,
1122
01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:10.599
you kind of go back to what two boys would
1123
01:05:10.599 --> 01:05:12.320
talk about in the high school locker room, you know,
1124
01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.480
about the girl they kissed on Friday night.
1125
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:20.800
You don't have any issues with girls, and Holland suggested
1126
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:24.960
possible scenarios to see if Brian would take it from there.
1127
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:30.280
Okay, so something happens, Sam, there's there's a snap, and
1128
01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:31.639
we need to figure out what that is.
1129
01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:35.639
And maybe you know she got married. Maybe she's giving.
1130
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:38.159
You all the signals and then cut you off. I mean,
1131
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.280
there could be all kinds of different things going on here, right,
1132
01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:47.480
I mean chicks, right, you know, chicks. Now, as we're
1133
01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:50.800
going through the interview, there's I'm watching him. I'm, I guess,
1134
01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:54.320
in a way a human lie detector. I'm I'm reading him,
1135
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.840
and I'm throwing things at him in which I know
1136
01:05:57.039 --> 01:06:00.320
the answer, and I'm looking for his responses, whether they're
1137
01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:02.440
false or true.
1138
01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:08.239
Under the pretense of helping Bryant remember what happened, Holland
1139
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:10.719
suggested they do a memory exercise.
1140
01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:13.519
What we're gonna do is these mind exercises, which means
1141
01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:14.920
we're gonna move back in time.
1142
01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:19.000
Bryant, who first claimed he didn't know who Jackie was,
1143
01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:22.519
then seemed to remember her. He said he could see
1144
01:06:22.519 --> 01:06:23.760
her coming into the bar.
1145
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:28.039
Think she was looking for a child, I suppose.
1146
01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:29.159
And offering her a ride.
1147
01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:31.960
It makes sense of ning. Probably would offer you right home.
1148
01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:34.760
There's tons of things in this that I can.
1149
01:06:34.679 --> 01:06:38.440
Tell you right over a pizza. As Holland tried to
1150
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:42.679
steer Bryant to confess. He probed about a possible.
1151
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:47.559
Motive, but what does everyone want to know? And yeah,
1152
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:49.280
why and who's the only one who could tells that?
1153
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:54.159
Holland eventually cut to the chase and asked if what
1154
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.320
happened with Jackie was really all about Caitlin.
1155
01:06:58.239 --> 01:06:59.880
Is there a time that you pictured her as a
1156
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:02.480
scirl friend, a digital or does anything like that come
1157
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:02.960
into play.
1158
01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:09.880
The level of nonsense that came out of his mouth
1159
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:13.760
at different points about that was just astonishing.
1160
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:18.639
Do you think Charles Bryant looks around the bar and
1161
01:07:18.760 --> 01:07:22.679
sees Jacqueline vandergriff, Ah, she looks like Caitlin.
1162
01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:25.719
It wouldn't surprise me if he actually mistook her at first,
1163
01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:28.599
You know, that saw her from behind and thought, man,
1164
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.119
you know my ex is here. I think in his
1165
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:35.079
mind that whole night. I think that's what he pictured.
1166
01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:43.039
After the murder. Right after the murder, he took Jackie's
1167
01:07:43.079 --> 01:08:00.280
phone and used it to add me on Facebook.
1168
01:08:01.159 --> 01:08:04.440
When Texas Ranger Jim Holland was brought in to interrogate
1169
01:08:04.519 --> 01:08:07.880
Charles Bryant, the nature of the crime made him wonder
1170
01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:12.280
if Bryan's brain was wired like the serial killers he'd encountered.
1171
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.880
In what way is the mind of a serial killer
1172
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.279
different from common criminal.
1173
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:21.960
You know, generally people like that tend to be sociopathic
1174
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:26.159
or psychopathic mindsets, and it's just a different game. Psychopath
1175
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:29.079
would be someone who's basically born with a scar on
1176
01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:33.479
their brain. Then a sociopathic mindset is something that society
1177
01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:37.680
has brought on, something happened to them that changed their psyche.
1178
01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:40.319
Something Maybe it happened in his childhood.
1179
01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:44.600
Christy Dixon got a glimpse of Charles bryant psyche firsthand.
1180
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:47.920
She met him on a dating app the year before
1181
01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:49.680
Jackie Vandergriff's death.
1182
01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:54.000
He seemed pretty quiet and reserved, almost like he was shy.
1183
01:08:54.279 --> 01:08:58.119
By the second or third time that we were hanging out,
1184
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.000
I noticed he was getting pretty attached pretty quickly, and
1185
01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:05.760
I just was not there. It was very casual to me.
1186
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:10.199
After she broke things off, he continued to pursue her.
1187
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:14.079
Brian even told her that he loved her. Christie says
1188
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:16.640
they'd never even shared a kiss.
1189
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:20.119
It was a little too much, too soon, too vast.
1190
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:24.079
I work with abuse children, and that to me kind
1191
01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:24.760
of stuck out.
1192
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:28.520
Christy says that's when she asked Brian about his childhood.
1193
01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.800
He told her he had been molested, the claim that
1194
01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:34.600
forty eight hours could not independently verify.
1195
01:09:35.199 --> 01:09:38.760
I remember thinking that makes sense. I'm not a psychologist
1196
01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.000
or anything, but his behavior sort of came off to
1197
01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:44.399
me as maybe an abuse child or someone who is
1198
01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:50.520
just needing that extra love that most people probably aren't seeking.
1199
01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:56.079
Still, Christy thought he was harmless and stayed in touch.
1200
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:58.920
I thought he was just a really nice guy and
1201
01:09:58.920 --> 01:09:59.880
felt sorry for him.
1202
01:10:00.199 --> 01:10:01.079
I'm not an angry guy.
1203
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:02.159
I'm not aggressive it.
1204
01:10:02.279 --> 01:10:06.239
As Ranger Holland continued his interrogation, he wanted to see
1205
01:10:06.279 --> 01:10:10.039
if Bryant would answer the key questions how did Jackie
1206
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:14.479
Vandergriff die? Her autopsy didn't provide many answers.
1207
01:10:15.159 --> 01:10:17.359
There's a lot we didn't know. We didn't know where
1208
01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:19.720
it occurred, we didn't know exactly how it broke down,
1209
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:21.000
and so that's what Michael was.
1210
01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:24.560
Holland wondered if the crime had a sexual element, but
1211
01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:28.159
initially Bryant denied anything sexual took place.
1212
01:10:28.760 --> 01:10:32.680
I recall having sex. You don't, no, no, let recall
1213
01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:33.359
having sex.
1214
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.520
After three more hours of interrogation, Bryant said they did
1215
01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:38.199
have sex.
1216
01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:39.640
Kinky sex.
1217
01:10:40.279 --> 01:10:43.680
According to Bryant, Jackie wanted to be choked with an
1218
01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:47.119
oversized zip tie that just happened to be in his car.
1219
01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:50.520
She didn't fight you in any way when you're putting on.
1220
01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:55.199
The consensual sex aspect of it. Was was one of
1221
01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:57.760
those things that no, I felt stronger that he was
1222
01:10:57.840 --> 01:10:58.640
lying about.
1223
01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:02.319
And Bryant also claimed that neither he nor Jackie had
1224
01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:04.359
tightened the zip tie intentionally.
1225
01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:07.439
Okay, so you think he's tightened up on its home
1226
01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:10.439
Basically I could have had a snag on something.
1227
01:11:11.319 --> 01:11:20.760
Okay, that's what happened. It's just not responsive shake he.
1228
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:27.039
Are you just thinking this is a complete and total lie.
1229
01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:29.520
Yeah, it's total fabrication. Did he kill her?
1230
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:29.880
Yes?
1231
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:34.319
Absolutely. When you deal with these people, it's so rare
1232
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:36.159
that you would sit down with them and they would
1233
01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:39.479
just tell you a to is e. This is what occurred,
1234
01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:42.640
And they're always going to leave out things that make
1235
01:11:42.680 --> 01:11:45.119
them look really bad. In other words, there's an excuse.
1236
01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:47.000
I'm not a bad person. I didn't mean for this
1237
01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:48.880
to happen. It was an accident.
1238
01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:53.840
Although Bryant was evasive about how Jackie died as Holland
1239
01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:57.680
led him through the memory exercise, Bryant went into gruesome
1240
01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:00.720
detail about how he disposed of her body.
1241
01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:06.680
Ken, what do you see in the pool? Which is
1242
01:12:08.079 --> 01:12:14.560
right now? Tell me exactly what you see occurring after that? True?
1243
01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:16.520
And what happens next?
1244
01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:20.399
Put it on fire?
1245
01:12:21.560 --> 01:12:22.000
The fire?
1246
01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:26.479
Why do you burn the body? It's for evidence.
1247
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:31.079
Even if he couldn't admit to murder, Bryant seemed a
1248
01:12:31.119 --> 01:12:35.640
waiver between denial and acceptance, at one point conceding that
1249
01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:39.880
the ebony showed he had to have done it, and
1250
01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:45.399
if I mean. After an intense six hour interrogation and
1251
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:49.880
with mounting evidence, Charles Bryant was finally charged with Jackie
1252
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:56.279
Vandergriff's murder. Christy Dixon could not believe the news that night.
1253
01:12:56.359 --> 01:12:59.560
I actually was scared to go to sleep. I had nightmares.
1254
01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:02.000
He had never threatened me before, but just the fact
1255
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:05.720
that someone that I felt that I knew had.
1256
01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:07.119
Murdered someone potentially.
1257
01:13:07.399 --> 01:13:08.479
I was terrified.
1258
01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:13.680
For Caitlyn Mathis, her worst fears were confirmed, and when
1259
01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:16.439
she tried to learn more about the woman Brian killed,
1260
01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:20.560
she made a shocking discovery on Facebook.
1261
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:25.680
I looked up Jackie Vandergriff and I realized, oh my god,
1262
01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:26.680
I'm already friends with her.
1263
01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:32.800
Caitlyn says that digital friendship began after Jackie's death. You
1264
01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:38.359
got a friend request from Jackie Vandergriff. Yes, Caitlin believes
1265
01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:42.319
that Facebook friend request could only have come from one person,
1266
01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:50.760
Charles Bryan. That really sounds diabolical. It was Brian pleaded
1267
01:13:50.840 --> 01:13:54.680
not guilty to Jackie's murder. His defense was the same
1268
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:57.439
story he told Ranger Holland.
1269
01:13:57.600 --> 01:14:01.720
These two young people met, the consumed a lot of alcohol.
1270
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:06.800
Our position as they had sex, kinky sex, albeit and
1271
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:07.399
she died.
1272
01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:13.079
Bryan's court appointed defense attorney, Glennis McGinty says Jackie Vandergriff's
1273
01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:16.880
death was a tragic accident. Are you telling me there's
1274
01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:22.000
no evidence that Charles Bryant killed Jackie Vandergriff, not direct evidence.
1275
01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:27.439
Prosecutors Lucas Allen and Anna Hernandez believe the evidence they
1276
01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:30.680
did have would be enough, but they also knew that
1277
01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:34.840
most jurors want to motive, and they weren't sure they'd
1278
01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:37.920
be able to tell this jury why they thought Jackie
1279
01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:38.600
was targeted.
1280
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:42.039
You have to wonder what is driving this person to
1281
01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:42.880
do something like that?
1282
01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:46.800
In your minds, there is no doubt that the murder
1283
01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:52.560
of Jackie Vandergriff is connected to the stalking of Caitlin Mathis.
1284
01:14:52.840 --> 01:14:55.800
Yes. I think we believe that definitely. She might have
1285
01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:59.319
just been victim number one, with Caitlin being victim number two.
1286
01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:03.920
To help prove this, the prosecution was hoping that judge
1287
01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:08.039
would allow Caitlin to testify against her ex boyfriend turned
1288
01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:10.279
stalker in open court.
1289
01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:13.119
I felt sick.
1290
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:32.199
Jackie was the most special person I know. I'll never
1291
01:15:32.239 --> 01:15:33.439
meet someone like her again.
1292
01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:37.399
In April twenty eighteen, a year and a half after
1293
01:15:37.520 --> 01:15:42.520
Jackie Vandergriff's untimely death, Charles Bryant was standing trial for
1294
01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:46.399
her murder her friend Jackie. Tan could not bring herself
1295
01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:47.239
to be there.
1296
01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:51.800
I wanted to go, but I'm going to be honest,
1297
01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.800
I couldn't look at him.
1298
01:15:56.239 --> 01:15:58.680
Charles Bryant would have to answer for a long list
1299
01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:02.199
of items the prosecute fu should had collected, including that
1300
01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:06.079
giant zip tie, the shovely purchase, the knight Jackie died,
1301
01:16:06.680 --> 01:16:09.399
and that large knife which police believe he used to
1302
01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:12.479
cut up her body, all found at his house.
1303
01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:17.560
This is something that you pray every night does not
1304
01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:19.880
happen to your child when they go off to school.
1305
01:16:20.399 --> 01:16:23.399
Investigators had also found a stun gun in his car
1306
01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:27.600
with Jackie's DNA on it, but it appears Jackie was
1307
01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:31.600
spared at least one hor Prosecutors Ana Hernandez and Lucas
1308
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:35.079
Allen said the medical examiner was able to run tests
1309
01:16:35.079 --> 01:16:39.079
on Jackie's remains and found no evidence of sexual assault.
1310
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:42.880
There was zero evidence to support that they had any
1311
01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:44.159
type of sexual encounter.
1312
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:48.640
Prosecutors say this undermines Bryant's story that this was kinky
1313
01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:54.000
sex gone wrong. His attorney Glennis McGuinty, How could they
1314
01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:56.760
have had sex if there's no evidence.
1315
01:16:56.760 --> 01:17:00.760
No evidence to the degree of no sperm found in her,
1316
01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:04.039
That doesn't mean they didn't have some type of consensual
1317
01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:06.079
sexual encounter.
1318
01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:08.119
She likes it, making it out.
1319
01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:12.760
Prosecutors chose not to play that interrogation tape for the jury,
1320
01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:15.600
which meant Bryant would have to take the stand if
1321
01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:19.079
he wanted jurors to hear his version of events. He
1322
01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:24.000
elected not to. Shouldn't he be explaining to the jury
1323
01:17:24.119 --> 01:17:26.079
why he's not at fault for her death?
1324
01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:29.800
And then that flies in the face of our constitutional rights.
1325
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:34.159
But the defense knows it has an uphill battle to
1326
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:37.279
convince a jury that Brian is not guilty of murder
1327
01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:41.439
while admitting he disposed of Jackie's body. If he says
1328
01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:44.640
it was just an accident, why didn't he call for help?
1329
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:45.239
Sure?
1330
01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:46.239
Fair question.
1331
01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:52.119
Intoxicated, panicked, and his mind would not process all of
1332
01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:55.399
that to make a rational decision that you or I
1333
01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:56.760
would have made called the police.
1334
01:17:57.520 --> 01:18:01.960
But Bryant went further than simply discard Jackie's body, much
1335
01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:06.640
much further, and prosecutors wanted the jury to hear their theory.
1336
01:18:07.279 --> 01:18:12.319
A huge piece of that story was the stalking.
1337
01:18:14.520 --> 01:18:17.239
But before the jury could hear from Caitlyn, the judge
1338
01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:19.960
would have to rule on whether or not to allow
1339
01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:25.720
this evidence. Local TV cameras were there when, without the
1340
01:18:25.800 --> 01:18:29.960
jury present, Caitlyn took the stand and faced her ex.
1341
01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:33.199
I was disgusted just to see his face.
1342
01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:34.720
Did he look at you?
1343
01:18:34.760 --> 01:18:35.520
Did you meet eyes?
1344
01:18:36.199 --> 01:18:38.399
At one point we had to when they made me
1345
01:18:39.640 --> 01:18:43.600
describe to the court what he was wearing, and he
1346
01:18:43.720 --> 01:18:45.279
just had this smirk on his face.
1347
01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:48.199
There's nothing really that can prepare you for that, is there?
1348
01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:48.680
No?
1349
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:52.119
The second I walked out those doors, I started bawling.
1350
01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:57.800
In the end, the judge ruled against Caitlyn being able
1351
01:18:57.840 --> 01:18:59.319
to tell her story to the jury.
1352
01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:01.960
It was definitely a real blow to us.
1353
01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:03.680
That was the right decision.
1354
01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:07.520
Why he had not been convicted of anything with Caitlin.
1355
01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:12.199
As the jury went out to deliberate, the defense was hopeful.
1356
01:19:12.439 --> 01:19:15.520
I don't believe that they could prove that he murdered her.
1357
01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:18.439
I don't think that they proved that.
1358
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:22.079
But would the jury agree? They were out for a
1359
01:19:22.119 --> 01:19:25.760
little over two hours, and even without hearing Caitlyn's story,
1360
01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:27.199
will we the jury find.
1361
01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:30.279
The defendant Charles be and Bryant Junior guilty of the
1362
01:19:30.279 --> 01:19:31.199
offensive murder.
1363
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:37.359
Charles Bryant was found guilty of Jackie Vandergriff's murder and dismemberment.
1364
01:19:37.960 --> 01:19:41.199
To your way of thinking, was justice done?
1365
01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:42.119
Yes?
1366
01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:47.039
I knew she was up there and said thank you.
1367
01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:52.159
Because prosecutors had no evidence Bryant committed another crime at
1368
01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:55.439
the same time as Jackie's murder, like rape or kidnapping,
1369
01:19:55.960 --> 01:19:59.159
he was not eligible for the death penalty. He was
1370
01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:02.960
sentenced to life.
1371
01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:04.119
As terrible as it insist to say, but I wanted
1372
01:20:04.119 --> 01:20:04.960
the death penalty.
1373
01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:09.600
Under Texas law, Bryant could be eligible for parole after
1374
01:20:09.680 --> 01:20:14.319
thirty years. Caitlyn says she feels like she's still looking
1375
01:20:14.359 --> 01:20:17.159
over her shoulder and always will be.
1376
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.720
I fear that when he gets out, he'll come and
1377
01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:24.079
find me and do something to either me or someone
1378
01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:27.039
that I love. That's my biggest fear.
1379
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:32.800
Ever since this happened, Caitlyn and her mother have been
1380
01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:35.159
thinking about Jackie and her.
1381
01:20:35.039 --> 01:20:38.840
Family this whole time. I wanted to reach out, but
1382
01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:40.319
I didn't know how they felt.
1383
01:20:40.760 --> 01:20:46.279
Nearly two years after Jackie died, they finally met her grandmother.
1384
01:20:46.640 --> 01:20:50.039
Bless her heart. She immediately came up to us and
1385
01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:52.720
too Caitlin, and hugged her and said, I've been so
1386
01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:55.520
worried about you these past two years.
1387
01:20:56.199 --> 01:21:02.239
Wow, Karen, was this the part.
1388
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:02.560
That gets you?
1389
01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:10.239
He took away their little girl and the pain of
1390
01:21:10.399 --> 01:21:16.079
the fall in their eyes. I could feel their pain, And.
1391
01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:21.840
Yet the grandmother was telling Caitlin she was worried about Caitlin. Yes,
1392
01:21:22.399 --> 01:21:23.960
you sound like very special people.
1393
01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:24.960
They are.
1394
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:33.079
Caitlyn says she struggled with the fact that she survived
1395
01:21:33.479 --> 01:21:40.359
and Jackie did not. This so easily could have been you.
1396
01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:45.800
In some days, I wish it was. It's just the
1397
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:49.680
guilt that eats me up. Sometimes I would have easily
1398
01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:51.840
had taken her place if I had the chance.
1399
01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:09.600
Forty eight hours.
1400
01:22:10.119 --> 01:23:00.079
Don't miss an episode.
1401
01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:01.760
I don't think the grieving ever.
1402
01:23:01.720 --> 01:23:09.880
Ends, it evolves. We've been wanting to tell Amy's story
1403
01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:13.399
and just felt like we weren't ready before, but now
1404
01:23:13.399 --> 01:23:14.640
we feel like we can do it.
1405
01:23:16.920 --> 01:23:19.199
I'm so proud of her and what she's accomplished.
1406
01:23:21.439 --> 01:23:22.760
Oh my goodness.
1407
01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:32.840
Fire eater, dancer, photographer, model, therapist.
1408
01:23:35.279 --> 01:23:36.520
She wanted to fix people.
1409
01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:38.439
You might want to speak to this woman.
1410
01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:40.279
Doctor Amy harwork.
1411
01:23:40.119 --> 01:23:42.279
As a licensed marriage and foundly therapist. I see all
1412
01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:44.760
kinds of different things when your anxiety, depression, change of
1413
01:23:44.840 --> 01:23:47.039
life stuff, breakups, moves, things like that.
1414
01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:50.439
Amy helped me so much.
1415
01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:52.840
I had gone to see Amy.
1416
01:23:52.960 --> 01:23:57.399
Because I had dealt with a relationship that got very
1417
01:23:57.399 --> 01:24:01.359
out of control and turned into a very serious, stoken case.
1418
01:24:02.039 --> 01:24:05.119
Jealousy can become dangerous and even lead to violence. It
1419
01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:05.840
can lead to death.
1420
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:11.800
I want to read the standard to four thirty four.
1421
01:24:12.560 --> 01:24:13.920
Somebody just attack my roommate.
1422
01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:14.960
We gonnare.
1423
01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:22.520
I just was woken up by screaming, like blood curdling scream,
1424
01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:25.560
and then then I realized that the screaming wasn't stopping
1425
01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:30.159
or slowing down, yelled up, you know, Amy, and I
1426
01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:33.359
heard choking. Right after that, I knew we were in trouble.
1427
01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:37.079
This is for real, this is really happening. I knew
1428
01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:38.920
we needed help, Like I'm going to have to make
1429
01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:39.720
a break for it.
1430
01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:46.399
When the first responders first got that call, where did
1431
01:24:46.439 --> 01:24:46.640
they go?
1432
01:24:46.840 --> 01:24:49.079
They came right here to this house.
1433
01:24:49.239 --> 01:24:51.159
Hey, sir, I can help you.
1434
01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:53.279
Was attacked.
1435
01:24:53.319 --> 01:24:53.960
I know what I heard.
1436
01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:54.399
I heard it.
1437
01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:55.079
She's screaming.
1438
01:24:55.119 --> 01:24:56.039
She was thrown to the ground.
1439
01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:57.239
Okay, hold on, okay.
1440
01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:01.239
Michael Herman was out here. He's frantic, he's nervous.
1441
01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:04.000
They didn't know what to think of this guy, right right.
1442
01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:07.079
They had no idea of who he was, why he
1443
01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:09.880
was involved in all this. They knew he was rambling on.
1444
01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:12.039
They had some doubts about him.
1445
01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:15.039
Originally, do me a favorite, Do me a favorite?
1446
01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:17.159
Calm down, calmed down, other than your roommate.
1447
01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:18.359
Is there anybody else inside the dout?
1448
01:25:18.439 --> 01:25:19.159
No, I don't know.
1449
01:25:21.199 --> 01:25:23.399
And I'm walking them around to the back of the
1450
01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:29.239
house and it's dark back there. There's some light, but
1451
01:25:29.279 --> 01:25:30.439
it's pretty dark back there.
1452
01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:32.560
And when they get around to the back, now they
1453
01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:37.079
can see a body on the on the ground, Sure, sir,
1454
01:25:37.159 --> 01:25:37.520
come here.
1455
01:25:37.680 --> 01:25:41.520
I remember not knowing what I was seeing, you know,
1456
01:25:41.560 --> 01:25:43.560
And after realizing it was Amy.
1457
01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:49.640
Really what hit me was the way that she was killed,
1458
01:25:50.039 --> 01:25:53.159
so heartbreaking that her, of all people, had to be
1459
01:25:53.279 --> 01:25:54.279
taken away.
1460
01:25:54.039 --> 01:25:54.840
That she was.
1461
01:25:56.760 --> 01:25:58.039
I said, I know who did it?
1462
01:25:58.279 --> 01:25:58.439
Why?
1463
01:25:58.640 --> 01:25:59.239
A new one?
1464
01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:03.279
I was the only person she was afraid of. That's
1465
01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:04.840
the only one she was ever afraid of.
1466
01:26:51.560 --> 01:26:57.960
Take a seat. Take a seat.
1467
01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:02.720
In the early morning darkness of February fifteenth, twenty twenty,
1468
01:27:03.159 --> 01:27:07.800
police body cameras were recording as Amy Harwick, barely clinging
1469
01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:11.560
to life outside of her Hollywood Hills home, was taken
1470
01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:12.640
to a hospital.
1471
01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:16.199
If she says anything in the hospital life, she wanted
1472
01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:16.760
to know that.
1473
01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:20.039
As EMTs tried to save Amy.
1474
01:27:19.880 --> 01:27:23.600
Officers from the Los Angeles Police Department tried to make
1475
01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:28.399
sense of this scene. Amy's roommate, Michael Herman, appeared to
1476
01:27:28.399 --> 01:27:32.560
be the only witness. He told officers an intruder had
1477
01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:33.520
attacked Amy.
1478
01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:36.039
I swear to you that was a struggle her.
1479
01:27:36.680 --> 01:27:39.239
But is there any sign of the intruder?
1480
01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:40.680
There wasn't, There wasn't.
1481
01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:44.880
Scott Masterson was the lead detective.
1482
01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:47.800
All we knew when we showed up was that a
1483
01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:51.239
female was found on the ground in the back of
1484
01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:54.439
the house. We're wide open to what really went on.
1485
01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:58.640
Even open to the possibility that this wasn't foul play
1486
01:27:58.680 --> 01:28:03.119
at all. When officers searched a three story house, they
1487
01:28:03.159 --> 01:28:07.399
found Amy's purse, jacket and broken necklace on the floor,
1488
01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:12.479
not exactly telltale signs of a crime, and a discovery
1489
01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:15.760
on Amy's balcony made them wonder if this could have
1490
01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:18.840
been an accident or even suicide.
1491
01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:22.319
On the deck of the balcony, we found a medium
1492
01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:29.439
size syringe and it was loaded with a yellowish brown substance, yes, heroin.
1493
01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:32.600
When the officers first saw that, they thought, what was
1494
01:28:32.600 --> 01:28:33.359
this some kind of.
1495
01:28:34.119 --> 01:28:38.640
Drug dealer, yeah, exactly, or maybe she was using drugs
1496
01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:39.840
and fell over.
1497
01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:42.399
They didn't know, sir, do you know her history of
1498
01:28:42.479 --> 01:28:42.880
joe use?
1499
01:28:43.640 --> 01:28:44.640
She's so she didn't drink it.
1500
01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:45.319
She didn't even drink.
1501
01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:46.439
She doesn't drink.
1502
01:28:46.479 --> 01:28:47.279
She doesn't even drink.
1503
01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:49.680
And when I first saw it, I said, that's.
1504
01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:53.800
Not heroin, not heroin. But he didn't know what it was.
1505
01:28:54.199 --> 01:28:56.000
But what did you think? Wasn't that odd?
1506
01:28:56.520 --> 01:29:02.720
Very odd, very strange.
1507
01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:04.880
And very strange to investigators, says Masterson. Was that Michael
1508
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:07.920
had blood on his shirt, and although he said he
1509
01:29:08.000 --> 01:29:10.760
was a roommate, he didn't have his keys to the
1510
01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:13.399
house when first responders arrived.
1511
01:29:13.439 --> 01:29:15.840
They don't know if he's part of the problem, part
1512
01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:19.720
of the solution, because he's a blood so you know,
1513
01:29:19.720 --> 01:29:21.399
they're thinking, was he in a fight with her?
1514
01:29:23.479 --> 01:29:27.840
That was not true. Michael Herman is telling his story
1515
01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:31.159
publicly for the first time about the events on the
1516
01:29:31.279 --> 01:29:35.560
night of Valentine's Day twenty twenty and into the early
1517
01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:38.920
hours of the next day. The word nightmare isn't even
1518
01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:39.399
big enough.
1519
01:29:39.399 --> 01:29:40.079
Where is it?
1520
01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:40.560
No?
1521
01:29:41.039 --> 01:29:44.760
No, Amy had gone out with friends, and Michael was
1522
01:29:44.800 --> 01:29:46.399
in his downstairs bedroom.
1523
01:29:46.640 --> 01:29:50.439
I've been mostly nodding on and off. I remember what
1524
01:29:50.600 --> 01:29:53.199
sounded like a plate drop and being woken up by.
1525
01:29:53.079 --> 01:29:57.560
It, thinking it was Amy's cat, He says, he fell
1526
01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:01.680
back asleep. He later woke up to Amy returning home
1527
01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:06.520
and that blood curdling scream. He then heard what sounded
1528
01:30:06.560 --> 01:30:10.439
like Amy being thrown to the floor and later choked.
1529
01:30:10.920 --> 01:30:13.079
Sound made you feel that there was someone up with her.
1530
01:30:13.359 --> 01:30:15.600
I knew for a fact there was somebody up there.
1531
01:30:15.640 --> 01:30:19.079
After that, I'm trying to listen. You don't know for
1532
01:30:19.159 --> 01:30:22.039
sure what's going on as the acting alone was there
1533
01:30:22.079 --> 01:30:25.439
more than one person start rushing to look for my.
1534
01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:30.319
Phone, but Michael says he couldn't find his phone. He
1535
01:30:30.439 --> 01:30:32.920
then started yelling to scare the intruder.
1536
01:30:33.399 --> 01:30:36.079
I remember thinking like, this is so much worse than
1537
01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:39.239
any horror movie I've ever seen. You're realizing that to Savor,
1538
01:30:39.399 --> 01:30:42.079
like you've got to make the decision to leave her
1539
01:30:42.279 --> 01:30:44.359
was such a hard decision.
1540
01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:49.239
Michael fled the house to get help, but when he
1541
01:30:49.279 --> 01:30:52.560
got to the front gate, it was locked. He climbed
1542
01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:57.640
over a fence, cutting himself on spiked rods. Frantically, he
1543
01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:01.640
ran to the next door neighbor's house. That neighbor's surveillance
1544
01:31:01.720 --> 01:31:06.159
camera shows Michael knocking on the door, but no one answers.
1545
01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:08.720
I just kind of panic, you know, feeling like a
1546
01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:10.039
lot of time.
1547
01:31:09.880 --> 01:31:10.760
Had already passed.
1548
01:31:11.399 --> 01:31:14.439
He then ran into someone on the street and used
1549
01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:16.279
their phone to call nine to one one.
1550
01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:19.680
You go to need to get us a copy here quick, sir.
1551
01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:21.399
The officers are on the way.
1552
01:31:23.079 --> 01:31:27.760
After spending hours at the scene, investigators found something in
1553
01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:31.640
the light of day that they had missed before. A
1554
01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:35.079
broken window from a French door on the ground floor
1555
01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:36.880
with blood nearby.
1556
01:31:37.279 --> 01:31:40.479
And so as soon as we saw that, Okay, this
1557
01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:42.760
is our point of entry. We have a crime here.
1558
01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:45.279
Somebody broke into this house and did this.
1559
01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:48.000
So this was the first piece of evidence that said
1560
01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:50.479
to you, Mike Krman might be telling you the truth.
1561
01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:52.079
Correct. Correct.
1562
01:31:53.920 --> 01:31:57.840
Later at the Hollywood Police station, Michael told Masterson about
1563
01:31:57.880 --> 01:32:01.520
the person he believed was respond.
1564
01:32:00.800 --> 01:32:03.079
Told him she had an ex boyfriend that she had
1565
01:32:03.079 --> 01:32:06.880
had a restraining order against that had expired. I don't
1566
01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:09.079
know his name, but Robert would know his name.
1567
01:32:10.479 --> 01:32:15.000
Robert is Robert Cochlin, one of Amy's closest friends. We
1568
01:32:15.079 --> 01:32:18.239
first spoke to Robert in twenty twenty. He told us
1569
01:32:18.279 --> 01:32:19.520
what he told police.
1570
01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:21.960
They were like, do you know do you know who
1571
01:32:22.039 --> 01:32:26.359
might have could have done this? And I was like, yeah, Gareth.
1572
01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:31.439
Gareth Purcell's an old boyfriend whom Amy had had a
1573
01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:35.920
troubled relationship with when they dated almost ten years earlier.
1574
01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:37.680
I was like, you need to go find this guy
1575
01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:38.199
right away.
1576
01:32:40.399 --> 01:32:44.119
Masterson then broke the news to Robert and Michael. Amy
1577
01:32:44.319 --> 01:32:47.920
had died at the hospital. She was thirty eight years old.
1578
01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:52.479
How difficult was it to hear that Amy didn't make it.
1579
01:32:52.479 --> 01:32:53.640
It's still difficult to hear.
1580
01:32:55.880 --> 01:32:59.960
As investigators worked to find Amy's ex boyfriend, they also
1581
01:33:00.199 --> 01:33:05.279
tried to find Amy's parents, Penny and Tom Harwick in Pennsylvania.
1582
01:33:06.039 --> 01:33:09.279
The Harwicks remember getting ready for bed when there was
1583
01:33:09.319 --> 01:33:15.920
a knock at the door. It was the local police.
1584
01:33:14.319 --> 01:33:16.279
And he said, Amy's been murdered.
1585
01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:25.159
It's a blur right now.
1586
01:33:26.600 --> 01:33:30.279
I don't know how to describe it, just devastated.
1587
01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:35.720
Penny and Tom's life with Amy began when they adopted
1588
01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:37.920
her as an eleven month old baby.
1589
01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:42.279
Do you remember the first time you saw your little girl?
1590
01:33:42.760 --> 01:33:42.920
Oh?
1591
01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:46.279
I absolutely remember, kind of like a fairy tale. It's like,
1592
01:33:46.319 --> 01:33:49.560
here's this beautiful little girl sitting there. She's going to
1593
01:33:49.600 --> 01:33:52.279
come home with us and be our daughter.
1594
01:33:53.319 --> 01:33:55.760
It was wonderful, and believe it or not, she had
1595
01:33:55.760 --> 01:33:57.840
a headful of curls.
1596
01:33:57.600 --> 01:33:59.920
And her hair was honeycolored. By the time she was
1597
01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:01.479
for it was so dark.
1598
01:34:01.840 --> 01:34:05.840
Around that same time, the Harwicks adopted their son, Chris.
1599
01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:08.560
And she was okay with it for a couple of
1600
01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:12.399
weeks and then she said, well, when is he going back?
1601
01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:15.560
And I said, well, he's not. He's your brother. He's
1602
01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:20.359
going to be here forever. How would you describe your sister?
1603
01:34:21.039 --> 01:34:26.239
Amy was a very interesting character. She was into heavy
1604
01:34:26.279 --> 01:34:27.720
metal and rock music, going.
1605
01:34:27.600 --> 01:34:30.800
To concerts, and Amy got her parents in on the
1606
01:34:30.840 --> 01:34:31.600
action too.
1607
01:34:32.079 --> 01:34:34.159
She turned Penny and Eye into middle heads.
1608
01:34:34.479 --> 01:34:37.840
Her head sees seriously seriously.
1609
01:34:38.039 --> 01:34:42.119
She would always manage to get either backstage or to
1610
01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:43.359
meet the performers.
1611
01:34:44.039 --> 01:34:45.359
That's just who she was.
1612
01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:51.199
After high school, Amy met Tommy Decker, a drummer from
1613
01:34:51.359 --> 01:34:56.239
la at a local concert. The two began dating long distance,
1614
01:34:56.760 --> 01:34:57.199
and then.
1615
01:34:57.119 --> 01:34:59.119
She said, I want to move out there. I want
1616
01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:00.119
to move out to lam.
1617
01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:04.359
In two thousand and one, she headed west. She was
1618
01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:05.600
twenty years old.
1619
01:35:06.039 --> 01:35:09.239
She needed to find out who she was. She needed
1620
01:35:09.279 --> 01:35:10.399
to do that for herself.
1621
01:35:11.840 --> 01:35:14.720
Soon the couple tied the knot, but after a three
1622
01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:20.319
year marriage, Tommy and Amy divorced. It wasn't until two
1623
01:35:20.399 --> 01:35:22.760
thousand and nine that Amy would go on to meet
1624
01:35:22.840 --> 01:35:26.720
Gareth Pearce House, the man police suspected had killed her
1625
01:35:27.039 --> 01:35:29.039
and whom they were now searching for.
1626
01:35:40.880 --> 01:35:44.000
Heartbreak for a local neighborhood after a well known therapist
1627
01:35:44.279 --> 01:35:46.439
was killed at her Hollywood Hills home.
1628
01:35:48.760 --> 01:35:51.600
People have left flowers here for Amy Harwick and her
1629
01:35:51.680 --> 01:35:55.720
friends and family are hoping for justice.
1630
01:35:56.800 --> 01:35:59.840
I was very confident that, you know, Gareth Purcehouse was
1631
01:35:59.840 --> 01:36:00.399
a guy.
1632
01:36:01.800 --> 01:36:05.520
Within thirteen hours of Amy Harwick's death on February fifteen,
1633
01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:10.800
twenty twenty, police descended on Gareth Pearcehouse's beachside neighborhood to
1634
01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:14.000
arrest him.
1635
01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:18.119
You could tell he was playing the old what's this about? Well,
1636
01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:18.880
why do you want to talk?
1637
01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:19.359
Who?
1638
01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:23.000
Oh, yeah, I know Amy. Sure, yeah. He basically was saying,
1639
01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:23.760
I've been at home.
1640
01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:30.880
Detectives weren't buying that story or the explanation Parcells gave
1641
01:36:31.279 --> 01:36:34.720
for what appeared to be a fresh black eye. He
1642
01:36:34.800 --> 01:36:36.680
blamed a home renovation.
1643
01:36:37.279 --> 01:36:39.600
I said, I think you better get a contractor if
1644
01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:41.439
you get a hold of power tool, you're gonna be
1645
01:36:41.520 --> 01:36:42.199
in real trouble.
1646
01:36:43.840 --> 01:36:48.319
Pearcell's was charged with Amy's murder on February nineteenth, twenty twenty,
1647
01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:52.640
and detectives were learning about his troubled past, beginning not
1648
01:36:52.840 --> 01:36:55.840
long after he and Amy began dating in two thousand
1649
01:36:55.880 --> 01:36:56.279
and nine.
1650
01:36:56.640 --> 01:36:59.239
They seemed like a pretty fun couple and kind of
1651
01:36:59.359 --> 01:37:01.319
nice to see, you know, friends get together.
1652
01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:04.840
When we first spoke to Rudy Torres in twenty twenty,
1653
01:37:05.119 --> 01:37:08.399
he talked about how the couple met. Amy, then working
1654
01:37:08.479 --> 01:37:12.119
as a model and dancer, would often run into herseuse,
1655
01:37:12.319 --> 01:37:16.079
an events photographer, at flashy la parties.
1656
01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:18.119
If you had meet him, you would think he's charming,
1657
01:37:19.039 --> 01:37:21.000
little goofy kind of door key.
1658
01:37:21.680 --> 01:37:25.279
He wasn't a musician like she don't know the dayd no, no,
1659
01:37:25.479 --> 01:37:27.439
And she was trying to break that habit.
1660
01:37:28.399 --> 01:37:33.439
Herseuse was also a computer expert and an aspiring comedian.
1661
01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:35.399
Here he is one more time for Gareth.
1662
01:37:35.479 --> 01:37:36.760
Everybody, come on I.
1663
01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:38.239
Venues for the entertainers over there.
1664
01:37:38.279 --> 01:37:40.359
The best day of your career is going to the
1665
01:37:40.479 --> 01:37:41.560
days after you die.
1666
01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:45.880
But oddly, says Amy's mother, Penny, her daughter didn't share
1667
01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:47.239
much else about him.
1668
01:37:47.800 --> 01:37:49.159
And why do you think that is?
1669
01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:54.800
Well, maybe she was already feeling like he wasn't who
1670
01:37:54.840 --> 01:37:55.640
she thought he was.
1671
01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:01.239
And Penny says her daughter never shared how volatile the
1672
01:38:01.319 --> 01:38:03.479
two year relationship had become.
1673
01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:07.600
She'd gone through quite a bit with Gareth. There was
1674
01:38:07.640 --> 01:38:09.079
a number of police reports.
1675
01:38:08.800 --> 01:38:09.479
That were made.
1676
01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:13.399
Detectives learned that Amy had called police to report several
1677
01:38:13.479 --> 01:38:17.680
violent incidents over the years. She said that on multiple
1678
01:38:17.720 --> 01:38:23.239
occasions Gareth Purshouse had choked, suffocated, and punched her with
1679
01:38:23.279 --> 01:38:27.399
a closed fist, and she even documented her injuries with
1680
01:38:27.479 --> 01:38:33.960
these photos. But Amy's father Tom says Amy didn't share
1681
01:38:34.640 --> 01:38:36.319
just how bad things had gotten.
1682
01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:38.319
She didn't go into details.
1683
01:38:38.600 --> 01:38:42.479
Do you think she just wanted to protect the Tipya.
1684
01:38:42.560 --> 01:38:47.479
After Amy ended the relationship, she took steps to protect herself,
1685
01:38:47.920 --> 01:38:52.840
obtaining a restraining order against Pearsows in twenty twelve. But
1686
01:38:52.920 --> 01:38:57.119
while she was trying to distance herself from him, Rudy says,
1687
01:38:57.600 --> 01:38:59.720
Parcell's could not let her go.
1688
01:39:00.279 --> 01:39:02.760
He always wanted to get a hold of her. Nice
1689
01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:04.800
to tell him that he should just leave her alone,
1690
01:39:04.960 --> 01:39:07.279
and he wouldn't take no for an answer, and then
1691
01:39:07.359 --> 01:39:08.960
he cut me off.
1692
01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:13.760
In the years after their breakup, Amy told her parents
1693
01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:18.039
that her home was broken into on one occasion, strangely,
1694
01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:22.520
the only things taken were personal photos, and on another
1695
01:39:22.960 --> 01:39:24.960
her computer was wipe clean.
1696
01:39:25.720 --> 01:39:27.640
And did she think it was Gareth?
1697
01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:32.079
She did, yes, but no way approving, no way approving anything.
1698
01:39:32.279 --> 01:39:35.079
Of course, we were worried, but then we also felt like, well,
1699
01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:37.279
she's done with him, it's over.
1700
01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:39.359
And it was never over.
1701
01:39:42.199 --> 01:39:46.359
And Penny says Amy was thriving, getting a degree to
1702
01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:48.159
become a licensed therapist.
1703
01:39:48.439 --> 01:39:48.960
My miss is.
1704
01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:51.399
Doctor Amy Harwick, licensed marriage and family.
1705
01:39:51.159 --> 01:39:55.159
Therapistness Amy posted therapy videos on her social media.
1706
01:39:55.880 --> 01:39:57.119
You can seek therapy.
1707
01:39:56.840 --> 01:39:59.880
To address an issue like depression, anxiety, a breakup.
1708
01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:02.960
You can also seek therapy to be a better you.
1709
01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:07.319
But even as Amy focused on helping others, she couldn't
1710
01:40:07.359 --> 01:40:11.159
quite shake the shadows from her past. She lost a
1711
01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:15.119
job as a youth counselor. Penny says after a prospective
1712
01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:20.359
employer was anonymously sent nude photos of her. Amy believed
1713
01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:22.199
herself was behind it.
1714
01:40:22.600 --> 01:40:25.600
She was really upset about it, and she wasn't sure
1715
01:40:25.600 --> 01:40:26.680
what she was going to do.
1716
01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:32.399
Despite that obstacle, Amy studied for a PhD in Human sexuality,
1717
01:40:32.960 --> 01:40:37.199
earning the title doctor. She took a special interest in
1718
01:40:37.319 --> 01:40:41.359
marginalized groups, all sex workers and vulnerable women.
1719
01:40:42.039 --> 01:40:45.079
And she doesn't stop. She just keep bounce story book.
1720
01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:45.600
I wrote a.
1721
01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:47.399
Book called a New Sex Bible for Women's Now.
1722
01:40:47.439 --> 01:40:48.119
She didn't stop.
1723
01:40:48.159 --> 01:40:51.000
She would work with these groups of people that she
1724
01:40:51.079 --> 01:40:54.119
felt were underrepresented and needed help.
1725
01:40:54.560 --> 01:40:56.920
What was doctor Harwick's reputation?
1726
01:40:57.479 --> 01:41:01.880
Doctor Amy Howick had an amazing reputation. I had a
1727
01:41:01.880 --> 01:41:03.920
lot of mutual friends that had seen her.
1728
01:41:04.399 --> 01:41:08.920
Emily sears A model whose grace the cover of Maxim magazine.
1729
01:41:09.199 --> 01:41:14.239
First started seeing doctor Amy Harwick in twenty seventeen in
1730
01:41:14.359 --> 01:41:18.720
part to help her overcome anxiety she had around dating
1731
01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:19.880
and intimacy.
1732
01:41:20.560 --> 01:41:22.119
I felt that she was relatable.
1733
01:41:22.279 --> 01:41:25.520
Well, I didn't know just exactly how relatable it was.
1734
01:41:25.880 --> 01:41:29.000
Even when she opened up to Amy about an abusive
1735
01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:33.439
ex boyfriend who had stoked her. Emily says, Amy never
1736
01:41:33.560 --> 01:41:37.159
told her about her own similar experience.
1737
01:41:37.199 --> 01:41:41.319
And that still is something that I am struggling to
1738
01:41:41.399 --> 01:41:44.199
process knowing that I was sitting across from her and
1739
01:41:44.319 --> 01:41:48.319
she had been through so much that was similar.
1740
01:41:48.640 --> 01:41:52.600
As Amy was helping Emily work through her issues around dating,
1741
01:41:53.159 --> 01:41:55.880
Amy was taking a chance on a new man in
1742
01:41:55.920 --> 01:41:59.880
her own life. Happy Bell Time's Days, Luke Carrey, comedian
1743
01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:03.079
and host of The Price Is Right on CBS.
1744
01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:07.039
She was obviously really beautiful, she was really smart. She
1745
01:42:07.119 --> 01:42:09.640
just wanted to help people, especially women.
1746
01:42:09.960 --> 01:42:13.600
We spoke to Carrie in twenty twenty two. He said
1747
01:42:13.680 --> 01:42:16.800
it wasn't long after meeting Amy at a party that
1748
01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:20.239
he decided she was the one, and.
1749
01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:21.880
I said, if this keeps going the weight it's going,
1750
01:42:21.920 --> 01:42:22.760
I'm going to marry her.
1751
01:42:23.159 --> 01:42:25.359
And what happened what happened was you had to have
1752
01:42:25.359 --> 01:42:28.119
taken her to parents on New Year's even proposing to her.
1753
01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:29.560
She accepted.
1754
01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:33.520
Drew and Amy shared the news on his show soon after.
1755
01:42:33.960 --> 01:42:36.640
I'd like to introduce you to my brand new lovely fiance.
1756
01:42:36.800 --> 01:42:42.479
Amy had no name. But instead of spending the rest
1757
01:42:42.520 --> 01:42:46.640
of their lives together, later that year, the couple split up.
1758
01:42:47.199 --> 01:42:51.159
How did she take the breakup? She was devastated.
1759
01:42:51.600 --> 01:42:53.520
I mean, she broke it off, and I think that's
1760
01:42:53.520 --> 01:42:56.439
because all fame was getting in the way.
1761
01:42:57.000 --> 01:43:00.840
That's because, as Penny, Amy feared that with the added
1762
01:43:00.920 --> 01:43:04.319
public attention she was getting while on the arm of
1763
01:43:04.319 --> 01:43:08.880
a celebrity, she could be putting herself in danger.
1764
01:43:09.279 --> 01:43:33.399
You know who was watching, and it made her worry.
1765
01:43:37.680 --> 01:43:41.319
It hit hard a lot off to Amy paust in
1766
01:43:41.399 --> 01:43:42.319
the way that she did.
1767
01:43:44.560 --> 01:43:47.199
How dangerous it really is for women.
1768
01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:51.880
Emily Sears, one of Amy Harwick's therapy clients, was shaken
1769
01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:53.359
by the news of her death.
1770
01:43:54.039 --> 01:43:55.640
The reality is we're not safe.
1771
01:43:55.880 --> 01:43:58.680
Nobody is in dealing with some domestic violence. Because this
1772
01:43:58.760 --> 01:44:01.279
was a bit different because the way Gareth Pursouse acted
1773
01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:02.640
in this case was more methodical.
1774
01:44:04.479 --> 01:44:08.119
When Deputy District Attorney Victor Avla took on the case.
1775
01:44:08.600 --> 01:44:12.199
He was particularly troubled by evidence that Purceouse had broken
1776
01:44:12.279 --> 01:44:16.039
into Amy's house, hoping to catch her off guard when
1777
01:44:16.159 --> 01:44:17.239
she arrived home.
1778
01:44:17.600 --> 01:44:19.640
And that's at the point that we decided to charge
1779
01:44:19.880 --> 01:44:22.600
not only the murder charge, also the special circumstance of
1780
01:44:22.680 --> 01:44:25.159
lying and wait. These are the crime scene notes.
1781
01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:30.039
Avla, along with his co counsul Deputy District Attorney Catherine Mariano,
1782
01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:35.359
reviewed surveillance, in body camera video, interviews with Amy's family
1783
01:44:35.439 --> 01:44:39.720
and friends, and compiled a timeline of the events leading
1784
01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:40.720
up to the murder.
1785
01:44:41.159 --> 01:44:44.840
Became very clear to me that his obsessions drove his
1786
01:44:45.079 --> 01:44:46.119
intent to kill her.
1787
01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:53.199
They believe that Parsous's obsession with Amy was ignited when
1788
01:44:53.239 --> 01:44:56.159
he saw her at this award show about a month
1789
01:44:56.239 --> 01:45:01.079
before her murder. It was a chance encounter working the
1790
01:45:01.119 --> 01:45:05.760
gig as a photographer. Amy smiling for the cameras, enjoying
1791
01:45:05.800 --> 01:45:10.760
the limelight, but moments earlier, off camera, witnesses say an
1792
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:15.600
angry HER's house confronted her. Penny Harwick recalls Amy telling
1793
01:45:15.640 --> 01:45:18.680
her she hadn't seen him in almost a decade.
1794
01:45:20.439 --> 01:45:22.000
He called her a bitch, and he.
1795
01:45:22.000 --> 01:45:24.199
Told her she ruined his life, and she just told
1796
01:45:24.239 --> 01:45:27.319
me how afraid she was because he was crying and
1797
01:45:27.640 --> 01:45:32.640
causing a huge scene, and she said, mom, I went
1798
01:45:32.680 --> 01:45:33.800
into therapist's mood.
1799
01:45:33.960 --> 01:45:35.399
I just tried to calm him.
1800
01:45:36.439 --> 01:45:40.079
After talking to Garrett for almost an hour, Amy left
1801
01:45:40.119 --> 01:45:42.119
the event very worried.
1802
01:45:43.760 --> 01:45:46.239
Was your reaction, Penny when she was telling you this.
1803
01:45:46.720 --> 01:45:49.199
That's when we talked about security, and she said she
1804
01:45:49.319 --> 01:45:50.720
was going to get pepper spray.
1805
01:45:50.960 --> 01:45:53.640
We decided to start sharing locations so I could track
1806
01:45:53.680 --> 01:45:54.399
where she was.
1807
01:45:54.640 --> 01:45:58.279
Her close friend, Robert Caslin, says that sharing her phone's
1808
01:45:58.279 --> 01:46:01.479
location was one of the few things Amy felt she
1809
01:46:01.560 --> 01:46:05.840
could do to feel safe. The restraining order against Pearcews
1810
01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:11.119
had long expired, and because Parcels hadn't expressly threatened her,
1811
01:46:11.640 --> 01:46:14.840
Robert says, she didn't think going to police would help.
1812
01:46:15.399 --> 01:46:19.079
Stilly says Amy was very concerned.
1813
01:46:19.640 --> 01:46:23.399
That's when she said, look, if something happens to me,
1814
01:46:23.600 --> 01:46:26.319
he did it. She actually said she did. She literally
1815
01:46:26.319 --> 01:46:26.840
said that.
1816
01:46:26.840 --> 01:46:29.479
She's thinking that he can cause me harm. And the
1817
01:46:29.560 --> 01:46:31.960
very next day he finds her phone on the internet
1818
01:46:31.960 --> 01:46:33.039
and starts texting her.
1819
01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:37.399
Gareth sent Amy a series of texts and later left
1820
01:46:37.439 --> 01:46:39.439
her a tear filled voicemail.
1821
01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:41.680
I hope so.
1822
01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:42.960
Much I need to say.
1823
01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:46.640
Please, give me a chance to just say it.
1824
01:46:47.359 --> 01:46:50.079
Please.
1825
01:46:50.600 --> 01:46:54.560
That's when prosecutors say Amy decided to block his number.
1826
01:46:55.119 --> 01:46:57.199
I believe up until that point he was trying to
1827
01:46:57.239 --> 01:46:59.840
manipulate his way back into her life. At the point
1828
01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:02.520
she made the decision to block him, that was her
1829
01:47:02.600 --> 01:47:03.760
choice and she had that right.
1830
01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:04.079
To do that.
1831
01:47:04.279 --> 01:47:08.199
Prosecutors say Purcell's started to plan to kill Amy on
1832
01:47:08.399 --> 01:47:13.199
Valentine's Day? Was that just a random date? Absolutely not.
1833
01:47:13.399 --> 01:47:15.439
I think he wanted to make a statement by killing her.
1834
01:47:15.439 --> 01:47:18.119
On Valentine's Day.
1835
01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:21.680
On February fourteen, twenty twenty, Amy went out with a
1836
01:47:21.720 --> 01:47:26.720
group of friends around seven pm. Two hours later, say prosecutors,
1837
01:47:27.079 --> 01:47:31.439
surveillance cameras from her next door neighbor's property were activated.
1838
01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:35.000
You get those ring cameras that show a person that
1839
01:47:35.039 --> 01:47:37.479
looks just like Gareth Purshou's with gloves.
1840
01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:41.199
When he first comes into view, he covers the camera
1841
01:47:41.560 --> 01:47:44.680
and when the camera senses no more motion, it shuts
1842
01:47:44.720 --> 01:47:47.560
off and then he hops over the fence.
1843
01:47:47.640 --> 01:47:52.640
Into Amy's yard. Soon after, around nine pm, they believe
1844
01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:55.800
Pearceoll's broke through that French door.
1845
01:47:55.960 --> 01:47:59.239
And that's consistent with Michael Herman. He heard something breaking
1846
01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:01.840
upstairs early into Amy, and I think.
1847
01:48:01.720 --> 01:48:04.479
He just got into the house cut himself. I don't
1848
01:48:04.479 --> 01:48:06.840
think he even realized he cut himself.
1849
01:48:06.880 --> 01:48:12.000
Leaving that blood police later found nearby. DNA testing would
1850
01:48:12.039 --> 01:48:19.159
confirm it belonged to Pearsouse, and Detective Masterson says where
1851
01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:24.199
Parsouse went next was revealed by Amy's unmade bed.
1852
01:48:24.520 --> 01:48:27.119
I think he climbed in her bed. He was there
1853
01:48:27.239 --> 01:48:29.199
waiting for her for quite a while.
1854
01:48:29.520 --> 01:48:30.479
How creepy is that?
1855
01:48:31.119 --> 01:48:31.920
Crazy? Creepy?
1856
01:48:34.600 --> 01:48:38.399
That's where Masterson believes Amy found him four hours later,
1857
01:48:38.439 --> 01:48:41.720
when she arrived home a little after one am.
1858
01:48:42.239 --> 01:48:45.239
She walks into her bedroom and I think she just
1859
01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:48.680
froze and shock and fear. And the one thing that
1860
01:48:48.760 --> 01:48:50.560
was on the bed was her phone, so I think
1861
01:48:50.600 --> 01:48:53.920
she actually threw her phone at him and turned and
1862
01:48:53.960 --> 01:48:57.439
started to run out of the bedroom. And she's screaming,
1863
01:48:58.159 --> 01:48:59.800
and they're fighting and they're wrestling.
1864
01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:02.800
How hard did Amy fight for her life?
1865
01:49:02.960 --> 01:49:04.560
I think she fought with everything she had.
1866
01:49:04.760 --> 01:49:07.039
He had something that appeared to look like a bitemark
1867
01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:08.359
on his bicep.
1868
01:49:08.279 --> 01:49:11.560
And Purcell's also had that black eye.
1869
01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:14.479
To us, it was indicative of Amy fighting for her life,
1870
01:49:14.479 --> 01:49:18.800
but she was obviously up against a much bigger, stronger opponent.
1871
01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:24.079
Prosecutors believe Purcells started choking Amy and that's when Michael
1872
01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:28.359
Herman yell. They believe, catching Purcell's by surprise.
1873
01:49:29.199 --> 01:49:32.039
And I think that plan was definitely thwarted by the
1874
01:49:32.319 --> 01:49:35.680
unbeknownst presence of Michael Herman there. I just don't believe
1875
01:49:35.960 --> 01:49:37.880
that he even knew that somebody was home.
1876
01:49:38.159 --> 01:49:42.159
In his panic. They believe Pursoll's dropped that syringe police
1877
01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:46.039
found on the balcony. It was months before lab test
1878
01:49:46.119 --> 01:49:50.479
revealed what it contained liquid nicotine.
1879
01:49:50.359 --> 01:49:54.039
A toxic poison that if injected into someone, it would
1880
01:49:54.119 --> 01:49:54.520
kill them.
1881
01:49:54.600 --> 01:49:55.760
Why kill her that way?
1882
01:49:56.119 --> 01:49:59.119
I mean with that lethodosa nicotine, people may not know
1883
01:49:59.279 --> 01:50:01.239
what killed her, It may not be detected.
1884
01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:08.840
With his original plan interrupted, Prosecutors believe that Purcehouse carried Amy,
1885
01:50:09.319 --> 01:50:14.119
barely conscious after being strangled to the third story balcony.
1886
01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:16.880
He lifts her right over the rail and then drops
1887
01:50:16.880 --> 01:50:18.000
her to kill her.
1888
01:50:18.279 --> 01:50:22.079
Gareth Purshouse is caught on the neighbor's camera hopping back
1889
01:50:22.239 --> 01:50:29.199
over the fence with their suspect and theory of the crime.
1890
01:50:29.640 --> 01:50:34.520
The prosecutors were ready for trial, but they were surprised
1891
01:50:34.560 --> 01:50:52.399
by Gareth Purshouse's defense blaming Amy for what happened that night.
1892
01:50:54.439 --> 01:50:57.680
In August twenty twenty three, more than three years after
1893
01:50:57.720 --> 01:51:02.840
Amy Harwick's death, her acute killer, Gareth Purshouse, went on trial.
1894
01:51:03.279 --> 01:51:06.800
I almost didn't recognize him.
1895
01:51:06.840 --> 01:51:12.239
In their opening statements, prosecutors Victor Avela and Catherine Mariano
1896
01:51:12.840 --> 01:51:17.680
told jurors why and how they believe Purcehouse ended Amy's life.
1897
01:51:18.039 --> 01:51:22.960
In the early morning of February fifteenth, twenty twenty, Amy.
1898
01:51:22.800 --> 01:51:29.000
Harwicks was murdered by defendant Garret Purshouse because he was probsessful,
1899
01:51:30.439 --> 01:51:34.920
he rifted her over the balcony and dropped.
1900
01:51:34.600 --> 01:51:35.479
Her through her head.
1901
01:51:35.760 --> 01:51:40.199
I just pray that Amy was unconscious when she was
1902
01:51:40.479 --> 01:51:41.800
when she went over the balcony.
1903
01:51:43.479 --> 01:51:46.600
Tom and Penny sat through every second of the trial,
1904
01:51:47.000 --> 01:51:49.199
even the most graphic moments.
1905
01:51:49.520 --> 01:51:51.960
I need to know what happened to my daughter, and
1906
01:51:52.119 --> 01:51:54.359
we wanted to be there for Amy yea through the
1907
01:51:54.359 --> 01:51:54.960
whole ordeal.
1908
01:51:55.439 --> 01:51:59.079
But the Harwicks were not alone. Also in the courtroom
1909
01:51:59.279 --> 01:52:04.000
a small arm army of Amy's friends, including Rudy Torres.
1910
01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:06.520
This is the last thing I could ever do for her.
1911
01:52:08.159 --> 01:52:12.640
Although fortified by her friends, nothing could prepare the Harwicks
1912
01:52:12.680 --> 01:52:17.600
to hear for the first time ever, Gareth Parcehouse's explanation
1913
01:52:18.119 --> 01:52:23.560
about what happened the night Amy died. Defense attorney Evan
1914
01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:28.159
Franzl claims that running into Amy in January twenty twenty
1915
01:52:28.199 --> 01:52:32.039
at that award show had sent purce House into quote
1916
01:52:32.399 --> 01:52:37.319
a deep, debilitating depression unquote, and the only way out
1917
01:52:37.319 --> 01:52:41.079
of it was to talk to Amy on Valentine's Day
1918
01:52:41.199 --> 01:52:42.119
twenty twenty.
1919
01:52:42.399 --> 01:52:45.159
His only intention that I was to speak to her.
1920
01:52:45.680 --> 01:52:50.000
What was your reaction to that? To put it bluntly,
1921
01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:52.840
they're making up stories because they have no defense.
1922
01:52:54.359 --> 01:52:57.359
And as for that nicotine filled syringe found at the
1923
01:52:57.399 --> 01:53:03.119
crime scene, purce House's defensive attorney says, it wasn't for Amy.
1924
01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:08.239
Why didn't he No, he was on a mission to
1925
01:53:08.319 --> 01:53:08.640
kill her.
1926
01:53:08.680 --> 01:53:11.079
He was wearing gloves when he went there. He covered
1927
01:53:11.119 --> 01:53:12.960
up the cameras. What's the purpose in doing all that
1928
01:53:13.000 --> 01:53:16.840
if you're going to kill yourself there in front of her?
1929
01:53:17.359 --> 01:53:20.039
The defense tells the jurors they will hear from an
1930
01:53:20.079 --> 01:53:24.479
accident reconstructionist who will show that Amy fell on her own.
1931
01:53:24.920 --> 01:53:29.439
Defense attorney Franzel then shows the jury two images, a
1932
01:53:29.479 --> 01:53:34.439
screenshot of the reconstruction showing an animated figure hanging from
1933
01:53:34.439 --> 01:53:39.079
the balcony and an undated photo of Amy posing on
1934
01:53:39.279 --> 01:53:41.079
top of a balcony railing.
1935
01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:43.600
You'll see that she.
1936
01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:45.720
Had a certain comfort level with the balcony.
1937
01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:50.800
Rate beautiful young lady, wasn't she? She looked glorious. What
1938
01:53:51.000 --> 01:53:51.720
was your reaction?
1939
01:53:52.560 --> 01:53:53.199
Ridiculous?
1940
01:53:54.520 --> 01:53:56.760
I couldn't take it seriously. It was just so far
1941
01:53:56.840 --> 01:53:57.640
fetched to me.
1942
01:53:59.119 --> 01:54:03.000
He's been strangled, she's debilitated, So for her to then
1943
01:54:03.119 --> 01:54:06.079
walk climb over a three foot rail do all that,
1944
01:54:06.439 --> 01:54:09.199
it doesn't seem reasonable. It seems actually unreasonable.
1945
01:54:09.520 --> 01:54:13.680
The defense's opening concludes with this damning admission.
1946
01:54:14.159 --> 01:54:17.279
Yes, Gareth first House was leaning in her home.
1947
01:54:18.159 --> 01:54:19.399
He broke into her home.
1948
01:54:19.640 --> 01:54:20.720
Had he not been.
1949
01:54:20.600 --> 01:54:23.359
There, she wouldn't die hast.
1950
01:54:24.239 --> 01:54:26.159
That is not in dispute.
1951
01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:31.520
He set a chance of actions into motives that led
1952
01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:32.640
to her death.
1953
01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:38.439
But the evidence will show that he never intended I'm killing.
1954
01:54:40.720 --> 01:54:44.520
Over the course of ten days, the prosecution presented its
1955
01:54:44.560 --> 01:54:48.399
evidence to prove that Gareth pears House did intend to
1956
01:54:48.479 --> 01:54:52.960
kill Amy Harwick. Dozens of witnesses testified for the state,
1957
01:54:53.600 --> 01:55:01.439
including Detective Master said now retired Robert Koshlin, My, and
1958
01:55:01.560 --> 01:55:06.319
of course Amy's roommate Michael Herman, the man who heard
1959
01:55:06.399 --> 01:55:10.159
it all. Michael described for the jury how after that
1960
01:55:10.399 --> 01:55:14.399
incident on the red carpet, Amy had been concerned about
1961
01:55:14.439 --> 01:55:18.479
those French doors that Pursouse would later use to break
1962
01:55:18.520 --> 01:55:19.399
into her home.
1963
01:55:20.039 --> 01:55:22.560
Amy had met with a handyman.
1964
01:55:22.920 --> 01:55:27.560
I remember they were over by the glass stores and
1965
01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:30.279
Amy was pointing it out and telling him we need
1966
01:55:30.319 --> 01:55:30.960
to secure this.
1967
01:55:32.399 --> 01:55:36.479
Prosecutors also played for the jury this tape jail conversation
1968
01:55:37.039 --> 01:55:40.359
between Pursous and his friends after his arrest.
1969
01:55:40.800 --> 01:55:43.079
I guess I'm officially a bad boy, now right, I've
1970
01:55:43.119 --> 01:55:45.520
always been kind of Just.
1971
01:55:45.439 --> 01:55:48.439
A couple of weeks after he's been arrested for murder, he's.
1972
01:55:48.319 --> 01:55:49.319
Laughing with his friends.
1973
01:55:49.359 --> 01:55:52.880
You never hear any moment of concern for Amy during
1974
01:55:52.920 --> 01:55:53.399
that call.
1975
01:55:53.760 --> 01:55:55.880
Yeah, so it's not great.
1976
01:55:57.600 --> 01:55:58.640
I'm not getting out of here.
1977
01:55:58.800 --> 01:56:00.000
Why was that important?
1978
01:56:00.279 --> 01:56:03.039
I think that's one piece of evidence to show a
1979
01:56:03.279 --> 01:56:06.039
consciousness of guilt, so he knows what's coming. Because the
1980
01:56:06.079 --> 01:56:08.439
evidence shows what he did, it proves what he did.
1981
01:56:09.640 --> 01:56:12.560
When it was the defense's turn to present its case
1982
01:56:12.720 --> 01:56:16.000
and call its expert witness to show how Amy's fall
1983
01:56:16.079 --> 01:56:21.000
from the balcony was an accident. The defense suddenly rested
1984
01:56:21.359 --> 01:56:26.239
without calling a single witness. Didn't that hurt the defense?
1985
01:56:26.680 --> 01:56:29.439
I am sure some jurors were wondering what happened, so
1986
01:56:29.720 --> 01:56:30.600
I don't think that helps.
1987
01:56:30.960 --> 01:56:36.239
During closing arguments, defense attorney Robin Bernstein leve presented a
1988
01:56:36.319 --> 01:56:40.239
new theory of what happened that night that Amy may
1989
01:56:40.239 --> 01:56:41.840
have attacked person house.
1990
01:56:43.039 --> 01:56:48.000
We don't know who initiated the physical confrontation.
1991
01:56:49.680 --> 01:56:52.960
It is just as likely, if not likelier, she.
1992
01:56:53.039 --> 01:56:59.199
Preemptively attacked Gareth Purshouse in order to subdue him because
1993
01:56:59.359 --> 01:57:00.520
she was afraid of him.
1994
01:57:01.520 --> 01:57:03.479
You see that all the time, don't you. A one
1995
01:57:03.600 --> 01:57:06.199
hundred and fifteen pound lady picking a fight with a
1996
01:57:06.199 --> 01:57:08.800
two hundred and thirty pound, six foot four man just
1997
01:57:08.840 --> 01:57:10.079
preposteros on its face?
1998
01:57:10.239 --> 01:57:11.319
Did that make you mad?
1999
01:57:11.840 --> 01:57:12.039
Oh?
2000
01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:16.119
Took all my willpower just stay in that seat to
2001
01:57:16.199 --> 01:57:17.119
keep my mouth shut.
2002
01:57:17.600 --> 01:57:22.199
During the state's closing arguments, it's Amy Harwick who has
2003
01:57:22.279 --> 01:57:27.279
the last word, with Prosecutor Mariano, reading from an email
2004
01:57:27.520 --> 01:57:32.159
Amy wrote to herself hours after her January twenty twenty
2005
01:57:32.319 --> 01:57:34.840
encounter with herself and night.
2006
01:57:34.920 --> 01:57:38.760
I felt very scary here behind me started screen.
2007
01:57:38.960 --> 01:57:41.079
I'm pretty nervous that I'm more on his radar now.
2008
01:57:41.399 --> 01:57:44.319
It terrifies me that he's obsessed with me for nine years,
2009
01:57:44.840 --> 01:57:47.920
thinks about me every day. He's focused on harming me.
2010
01:57:50.079 --> 01:57:53.279
That's the closest we've ever had to a victim testifying
2011
01:57:53.279 --> 01:57:56.800
in their murder. I thought it was extremely devastating.
2012
01:57:57.920 --> 01:58:02.560
Jurors had three choices, murder in the first degree, murder
2013
01:58:02.600 --> 01:58:07.199
in the second, or the lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter.
2014
01:58:07.600 --> 01:58:10.600
When it came time for deliberation, I think we all
2015
01:58:10.640 --> 01:58:13.800
thought it would be rather quick. Day one went by nothing.
2016
01:58:13.960 --> 01:58:16.279
I started getting a little worried im thinking what could
2017
01:58:16.279 --> 01:58:19.119
they be debating about.
2018
01:58:36.880 --> 01:58:41.960
I felt nervous because you never know. As jurors met
2019
01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:45.760
for a second day to decide Gareth Purshouse's fate, the
2020
01:58:45.840 --> 01:58:49.560
waiting for a verdict began to weigh heavily on the prosecution.
2021
01:58:50.000 --> 01:58:52.399
It's incredibly nerve wracking. The weight is the worst part,
2022
01:58:52.680 --> 01:58:56.039
and on Amy Harwick's friends and family.
2023
01:58:56.039 --> 01:59:00.079
And all you hear is just like a symphony of
2024
01:59:00.079 --> 01:59:02.520
of anxious bellies, just girl.
2025
01:59:04.079 --> 01:59:05.880
So everybody's nervous.
2026
01:59:05.399 --> 01:59:08.439
But as court was about to adjourn, we were.
2027
01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:11.520
Walking out of the courthouse and Rudy called down and said,
2028
01:59:11.600 --> 01:59:12.479
everybody get up here.
2029
01:59:12.560 --> 01:59:14.880
There's a verdict, has.
2030
01:59:14.720 --> 01:59:16.880
A crack that the jury has a verd You're gonna
2031
01:59:16.880 --> 01:59:18.159
have the verdict formed over the bay.
2032
01:59:18.319 --> 01:59:22.079
Please with the jury the moves out of actually fighting defendant.
2033
01:59:22.159 --> 01:59:22.960
You're with pursous.
2034
01:59:23.239 --> 01:59:28.760
He'll have the first degree Gareth Purcehou's guilty of first
2035
01:59:28.800 --> 01:59:33.279
degree murder with a special circumstance of line in Wait.
2036
01:59:33.800 --> 01:59:35.880
What did you feel at that moment?
2037
01:59:36.039 --> 01:59:40.479
A huge, huge relief. I just started crying and I
2038
01:59:40.520 --> 01:59:46.199
couldn't stop. It was like, whew, finally, after all this time,
2039
01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:49.119
he's going to be held accountable for what he did.
2040
01:59:50.920 --> 01:59:55.079
Two months later, Purshouse was sentenced to life in prison
2041
01:59:55.560 --> 02:00:07.159
without prole He didn't say a word. Amy's friend Robert Coslin.
2042
02:00:07.800 --> 02:00:12.439
Justice was rendered and that's good. But we shouldn't be
2043
02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:14.840
here at all. This should never have happened to begin with.
2044
02:00:14.880 --> 02:00:17.119
The whole in our lives remains.
2045
02:00:17.279 --> 02:00:21.239
He's impacted so many people with his actions, so many people.
2046
02:00:21.439 --> 02:00:23.239
He devastated our family.
2047
02:00:27.039 --> 02:00:31.600
A family that has grown. After the verdict, Tom gathered
2048
02:00:31.680 --> 02:00:35.560
Amy's friends, the ones who have stood by them every
2049
02:00:35.680 --> 02:00:36.960
step of this journey.
2050
02:00:37.439 --> 02:00:42.880
I said, you're not our friends, your family. You're really
2051
02:00:43.439 --> 02:00:45.079
happy become our family.
2052
02:00:46.359 --> 02:00:49.239
Could you have gotten through this without them? I don't
2053
02:00:49.279 --> 02:00:51.840
think so.
2054
02:00:53.000 --> 02:00:57.079
It's a testament to the amazing life and community Amy
2055
02:00:57.159 --> 02:00:58.159
Harwick created.
2056
02:00:58.800 --> 02:01:01.119
She was really happy.
2057
02:01:01.359 --> 02:01:05.039
She was really happy that she had really gotten her
2058
02:01:05.119 --> 02:01:05.800
life together.
2059
02:01:07.039 --> 02:01:08.520
Man, we were all happy.
2060
02:01:11.560 --> 02:01:15.520
Michael Herman says he still keeps replaying that night.
2061
02:01:16.560 --> 02:01:20.720
She's gone and I'm still here. You won a second chance.
2062
02:01:20.760 --> 02:01:22.000
I'm still trying to save her.
2063
02:01:22.600 --> 02:01:26.399
Michael Herman has a lot of survivor's guilt. Oh my goodness,
2064
02:01:26.760 --> 02:01:27.920
did the exact right thing.
2065
02:01:28.279 --> 02:01:29.680
He made all the right decisions.
2066
02:01:29.960 --> 02:01:34.840
Do you feel your sister got justice.
2067
02:01:34.479 --> 02:01:35.840
I feel she did.
2068
02:01:36.119 --> 02:01:38.600
Amy's brother Chris.
2069
02:01:38.479 --> 02:01:40.760
We wish that she still could be here at it
2070
02:01:41.319 --> 02:01:44.000
to continue to help people, because that's what she's all about.
2071
02:01:46.319 --> 02:01:52.000
We lost a friend, but so many other people lost
2072
02:01:52.079 --> 02:01:52.600
a healer.
2073
02:01:52.840 --> 02:01:57.000
I think if Amy every day because she helped me
2074
02:01:57.079 --> 02:01:57.720
so much.
2075
02:01:58.000 --> 02:02:02.079
Emily Sears says she's struggling without Amy's guidance.
2076
02:02:02.720 --> 02:02:05.039
That's just so hard to feel safe when this is
2077
02:02:05.079 --> 02:02:07.720
the reality of what happened to her and what happens
2078
02:02:07.760 --> 02:02:09.119
to so many people.
2079
02:02:10.640 --> 02:02:14.720
Amy's loved ones are hoping to change that reality. After
2080
02:02:14.760 --> 02:02:19.279
her death, the petition was created to rewrite California domestic
2081
02:02:19.399 --> 02:02:25.439
violence laws, including a statute preventing restraining orders from expiring.
2082
02:02:25.840 --> 02:02:29.359
And our biggest disappointment was it lost all its impact
2083
02:02:29.560 --> 02:02:31.319
when code shut everything down.
2084
02:02:31.800 --> 02:02:36.319
Prosecutor Catherine Mariano acknowledges that there are limits to the
2085
02:02:36.439 --> 02:02:37.920
legal system.
2086
02:02:37.840 --> 02:02:39.680
And by the time he gets to our table, we're
2087
02:02:39.720 --> 02:02:43.560
in a position to act reactively rather than proactively. But
2088
02:02:43.800 --> 02:02:46.000
as a society, I think we can always do better.
2089
02:02:46.199 --> 02:02:51.239
Right after the trial, Amy's parents headed home to Pennsylvania,
2090
02:02:51.640 --> 02:02:54.319
the place where they first became a family with their
2091
02:02:54.359 --> 02:02:58.000
little girl and watched her grow into the woman admired
2092
02:02:58.399 --> 02:03:00.520
and now missed by so many.
2093
02:03:00.840 --> 02:03:09.600
What's the hardest part Just the absence, the quiet.
2094
02:03:09.640 --> 02:03:12.520
One huge void, one huge void.
2095
02:03:12.359 --> 02:03:19.800
And I miss our adventures, adventures remembered when they visit
2096
02:03:20.159 --> 02:03:23.960
Amy's grave, and I couldn't get a brighter orange.
2097
02:03:25.520 --> 02:03:28.119
I know orange was your favorite color, but this is
2098
02:03:28.159 --> 02:03:30.439
the closest I could get. We're not the same people
2099
02:03:30.479 --> 02:03:33.319
we were before, but we keep trying to be.
2100
02:03:34.199 --> 02:03:35.319
We miss you Amy.
2101
02:03:37.159 --> 02:03:38.840
Every day, We think of you.
2102
02:03:39.720 --> 02:03:41.760
Anything you wish you had been able to say to.
2103
02:03:41.720 --> 02:03:44.079
Her, just to tell her one more time that I
2104
02:03:44.199 --> 02:03:48.399
love her. I know she knew it, but I wanted
2105
02:03:48.439 --> 02:03:51.479
to be able to say it.
2106
02:04:11.880 --> 02:04:15.800
New CBS Next, a young teenager is strangled and buried alive,
2107
02:04:16.039 --> 02:04:19.840
absolutely cold blooded. Twenty years later, her family battles to
2108
02:04:19.920 --> 02:04:21.479
keep her killers behind bars.
2109
02:04:21.640 --> 02:04:22.560
We're fighting for her.
2110
02:04:22.680 --> 02:04:23.520
That's why we're here.
2111
02:04:23.960 --> 02:04:26.359
She doesn't have a voice, so we're her voice.
2112
02:04:26.800 --> 02:04:30.159
Forty eight hours is all New CBS Next and streaming
2113
02:04:30.199 --> 02:04:35.319
on Paramount Plus.
