Exploring the Commander Bracket System

Justin and Kevin: Welcome to Top Deck Therapy. The magic of the gathering podcast, where we break down the plays we make, the mistakes we learn from, and the mindset that shapes better games. Have a seat, relax, and let's dive in. We are back. So excited to be back. How you doing, Justin? I'm doing good, you know. How are you feeling? I'm finally feeling good. I have been dealing with a lingering sickness, lingering soles. Little throwback there for you. Down with the sickness? ⁓ ha ha. I was, yeah man, that was a brutal ⁓ January, early February for me. Just seems like it just lingered. Just went on and on, but excited to finally be back. I love doing this with you. Me too. I love talking magic. I love getting into it. And today what we're talking about is we're going to go over the bracket system. So kind of a new, mean, it's been out for a while now, but it's kind of an exciting little thing that Wizards has done to try and get people kind of playing in the right pods. So I feel like we've been talking about it for a while too. It's just something that we're both, you know, passionate about right, you know, we love talking magic and there's just certain conversations that Kevin and I have in the car on our drive to work every day and we decide, know what? Let's ⁓ put that on the podcast and talk about it because we find it important and I'm sure someone else is gonna find it important. And if not, it's just our opinion. It's just our opinion and hopefully at least our voices are soothing to you. ⁓ You know, I know you got that nice sultry sultry voice, Justin, but ⁓ you want to hit it. It's all Mike. It's all Mike. You want to hit us with bracket one? Sure. Yeah, and this is gonna be straight from, you know, the MTG website. Yeah, straight from Wizards. one. Exhibition. Ultra casual. No land denial. No extra turns. There's zero two card infinite combos. No game changers and a few tutors. What the hell does few tutors mean? Here we go. Let's get into it. This is my rant right here. What does few mean? When I think of few, I think of three. ⁓ I don't know if it's, is it something that can be defined? What the hell is a tutor? Okay. I know what a tutor is, but like it's so vague in a tutor. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're tutoring a lands, right? I just have questions. just have questions. Lots of questions. Yeah, so let's kind of get into this a little bit. There's been some, I think, some updates and kind of some things to talk about. I have been doing a little bit of research here, which is not my strong suit. But, you know, as far as tutor goes, really right now that it wasn't clear to start the tutors, you know. Like how many, what was a few, what does that mean? But essentially, ⁓ after a lot of discussion that they were, they wanted to remove their tutor restriction. ⁓ Brackets one, ⁓ two, and three. You know, they don't have any ⁓ infinite combos. Most tutors are searching out infinite combos, not always, but ⁓ it's easier to kind of make that more consistent and find a way to ⁓ kind of finish the game. Since brackets one and two don't have any infinite combos or no two card infinites and bracket three, it's which we'll talk about later. ⁓ It's no, no early game in the combos. I think past six turns, six or seven turns. So it's kind of like, it doesn't really matter as much. ⁓ but anyways, yeah, but that's a great question. Like what is a tutor? I mean, how many tutors, you know, like Doesn't doesn't land cow, but I think they've kind of made that errata a little bit as far as like it's kind of like Yeah, cuz not all tutors are considered game changers, right? Right demonic tutor. Yeah here tutor Yeah, well diabolic tutor right is is I think that's the four-man one That's not a game changer, but I think a lot of the the the good ones, you know vampiric and demonic I think those are game changers. Yeah, but what about the Voltron players open the armory? I love that card great card Great card. You need your Swift of Boots. You need your lightning greaves. You need your Buster Sword. You need anything. Buster Sword. Hey, I'm just dropping names right now. Bust the move. Yeah. They're not game changers though, so. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think a lot of this is going to come down to, and this is a little bit wishy washy here, but a lot of the brackets to me is kind of, all about intent. ⁓ What is the intent of the deck? know, bracket one is, I think, Bracket two is really like what your current pre-constructed decks are all about right now. You know, that power level. So bracket one is kind of maybe less than or close to. you know what... it's that ultra casual, right? That's the word they use, ultra casual. That's also too very, really vague for me. what is... You know, it's all about intent, but like my casual play is probably different than like... 80 % of everyone else is casual play, you know? Yeah, you're not playing, you know, chair tribal or looking left, ladies looking left, you know? Yeah. But, yeah. No turn to ad nauseums. Right, exactly. wasn't playing that. That does not sound fun at all. It was terrible. Gosh, anyways. ⁓ Bracket two. Yeah, bracket two. Mentioned it earlier. That's kind of your average current pre-con level right now. Same thing. No mass land denial. You know, no chaining extra turns. Which threw me off. Yeah. So you just can't chain extra turns, but you can have extra turn cards. Yeah, that to me is... you can have five different extra turn cards, but just can't chain them together. Let's go into this a little bit because... How many players speaking of ⁓ we got some yerba mate is here I'm being forced to drink green and just I'm being forced to drink blue ⁓ See how the other side lives Late night recording so yeah. Yeah, and actually from very close to our hometown there So a little bit of local love but not sponsored, but hey, we're looking ⁓ Yeah, so that surprised me too because all right, dude, how many times in a game of commander Is it like, you're so close to winning a game and it's like the next person un-taps and then just does something diabolical and just wins the game? I mean, a lot? If only I had an extra turn. Well, see, that's what I was going to say. Like how many times has someone said, if I had one more turn, I would have won. I that every time I play from somebody and it's like, wait a minute, you in a core. You can have as many extra turns as you want. You just can't chain them together. them together. Okay? Yeah, that was a little... intro, you can have extra turns in your Dino Don't tell him that. Don't tell him that. Hopefully he doesn't listen. Just kidding, bud. Yeah, so you can't chain extra turns together, which... Okay. And then there's no two card infinite combos and no game changers, which that to me, I really like the game changers. I think those are just, you know, they're... very pushed, powerful cards. ⁓ And if, when you play in bracket two, I think it's a really nice thing, like, I am not gonna be playing against Rhystic Study tonight, you know? Or the new card that just came off a band list. What card is that? Biorhythm. Biorhythm. Ooh. And the card that just went on to the band list. Farewell. Farewell. Yep. Farewell to being off the band list. That kind of sucks, because I have a couple white decks that were twos and now they're automatically threes. It's a bracket three now, ⁓ Yeah, but I will too. Yeah, farewell to bracket two. Yeah, I think that's something that I really really like is that you know if I'm playing if you're playing bracket two and you're planning its other bracket two level decks You know that you're not gonna be playing against any of those game changers, right? And I think that's kind of a nice like thing and I think that's a lot of what this bracket system is really trying to to capture here is like making those pregame conversations easier and trying to get, you know, games that are more similar, like-minded. It's all about intent. think Kevin and I are going say that a lot tonight. I mean, that's what this whole bracket system is supposed to be about is intent. What is your deck supposed to do? Is it supposed to, you know, tell a story? Is it supposed to just beat ass? Is it supposed to go infinite? You should know turn zero conversations need to be had at every single game, regardless of, I mean, we are in a very close-knit pod and we play with the same five people, you know, and we still have turn-zero conversations. Well, I mean a little bit less now because we know each other's decks, you know, even when we're building decks and we're texting each other and we're like, hey, I'm building this, you know, I'm right now I'm building a captain, what was it? Captain, Captain, Captain Howler, yeah. Blue, red, Pat on the back. Hey dude, this blue, ⁓ this blue Yerba Mate is kinda, it's getting to you. You know you like that. Yeah, but I am being like upfront, like what I'm gonna do with it. you know, I'm not gonna try to like hide it, you know? It's gonna be a Voltron deck. Sweet. Yikes. Yikes. Yeah. And that, I mean dude, Captain Howley, that thing is, it can get crazy. It seems, I haven't played against it yet, but I'm just imagining, just imagining. I think that's like what is really nice about that kind of bracket, you know, to and under is like, just know, like, I'm not going to be facing any of those game changers. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. But I think this is where we all stand in pretty much bracket three. Upgraded. ⁓ Basically it is a beyond strength of an average pre-con. Okay. So once again, no mass land denial. Who likes mass land denial? Come on. Okay. I have question. No mass land denial. What is considered mass land denial? Oh, I think it's anything. than one land? Yeah, I think it's anything more than one. Okay. Yeah. Just curious. That's what I'm saying. I'm just curious. I, when I think of mass land denial, the first thing that pops in my head is like Armageddon. Something like just white ball lands. That's what I think of mass land denial. You know, I, sure. I think that Boyle's a good, you know. Oh yeah? Dude, why do you hate non-islands? why? You know, dude. I said that just to get a rise out of you. Okay, anyways. the waters are rising, the tides are rising quick. Yeah, chaining extra turns. No, no, no, no. Yeah. This is where it gets kind of, you know, we talked about late game, turn six and beyond. That surprised me because I don't consider turn six to be late game. Mid. Yeah, for sure. Mid. I'm usually still developing at turn six, which is some of my commanders I don't even cast before turn six. Okay, but this is just like, know, what they decided to put together. Turn six. can have a two card, infinite combo. Yep. And then you can have up to three game changers. So I feel like this is where, you know, most of our people that we play with fall into this category. You know, considering, know, I think you made a good point ⁓ earlier when we were talking about this is, you know, this bracket three is up to three game changers. So If you have one game changer in your deck, are, can't be a one, can't be a two, you're a three. You might as well try to put two more in the deck. they're good. Yeah. Game changers are generically good usually. And you, they're usually the kind of like the best in class of what they're trying to do. And you, you might as well, I mean, obviously they're, they cost some coin, you know, so it's like, you know, I get that it's expensive, but. You might as well, like, let's say you had that bracket two with farewell, right? Now it's considered a bracket three because you have a game changer. You might as well see if you can kind of squeeze another two game changers in there if you can. mean, automatically in my head throwing smothering tithe. When is smothering tithe not good? Well, I'm just saying like, cause we're talking a white, knowing I a farewell and a mono white deck. mean, in my head I'm like, sweet. I'll throw a smothering tithe in there. I'll throw. Antifurious protection and now my blink deck is even better. So good. Yep. Yep. It is. Yeah, and I something that I really want to mention here is ⁓ You know, Think a lot of times with us Especially since we have that small group that we're playing with we we want to play the decks We're excited to play tonight, you know So I'm okay playing I don't have any bracket one decks, at least not that I consider of, and my intent usually is kind of in that bracket two, bracket three. I want to be competitive, not, but you know, not CDH, right? But I just want to be like, I kind of want to do so. I want my deck to do its thing and I want it to be synergized. I have a couple of bracket two decks that I feel like could easily handle playing in the bracket three, ⁓ you know, range. And, ⁓ you know. We play in a pod of five, right, of a bunch of our friends. And I usually am like, all right, all weekend, I'm thinking about it. And I kind of want to like, I'm excited to play this deck. And sometimes it just doesn't match up. Sometimes I want to play this bracket two and somebody wants to play a bracket four. Well, I think a lot of my bracket twos can handle that. Maybe not always, maybe I'm slightly ⁓ underpowered here, you know, bringing that squirt gun to a, ⁓ you know, ⁓ a tank fight. ⁓ But always because there's politics in politics. Yep, always third assessment. And yeah, you know ⁓ I'm always gonna attack a four before I attack you and great point you could just sneak behind Yeah, we've mentioned it multiple times now, but you I kind of like to play in that middle of the pack a little bit, you know, so ⁓ I I purposely brew my decks to do that ⁓ but ⁓ that's something too is like I think that We have talked about it already, but like intent like I have bracket twos I don't have any game changers in them, right? I'm sticking to I don't have any mass land and I don't have any two-car combos That you know of Yeah, I forgot about that But god, that's that's never gonna get old is it? You know, we're gonna be eight years old remember that time when you comboed off of the two two-car combo that you didn't know you had Know your decks people I just don't, like, I don't know, I just have never not known what... Yeah. You don't have combos, Justin. You just have large creatures that do work. True. That they're like a combo itself. Yeah. Yeah. I have Death Touch and Trample. That's a combo, buddy. That's like Green's version of a combo. Sure. yeah. Yeah, so, you know, that's something that should be mentioned, right? You don't always have to play in the same brackets. Like, you can play outside of your bracket. I can play my bracket twos up or down, right? It just kind of comes back to intent a little bit. yeah, I would say most of our decks are in that kind of... All my decks are in the two and three range. All mine are in two and three. I think I have one four. And I only bought that because of ⁓ last time went to Vegas. Someone steamrolled us and I said, never again! Let's touch on that a little bit ⁓ if we haven't mentioned it already, but we have but yeah I mean but once again we had a the bracket system was nowhere to be found now So we did the old pre bracket system, you know the turn zero Hey, what level power level you run in there buddy, and he said ⁓ I got a seven Bullshit You did not have no freaking seven So yeah, anyways little ranch will seven times what? So that's what I'm saying. I think this breakfast system has helped. think it's going in the right direction. I think there just needs to be a couple more added things to it because, you know, it's just a little vague for me. And if we're, if we're really trying to evolve, you know, the game and get newer players into this game, like, look at the, like all the new sets that are coming out, know, like Ninja Turtles. I'm sorry, dude. can't. I like airbender. That's another conversation all together. can't Just usually come on look in all the universes beyond coming out Marvel. Yep They're trying to draw people that don't play magic. They're trying to draw people from another genre into this game. Okay, if you were to put this bracket system on a card in a pre-con, which is for a new player Would they understand exactly what the bracket system is? Sure. Maybe they'll have to Google some things because you and I have been playing for, you know, 2012, like 2013. We know some things, you know. I mean, we've been around the block. We've had to go through that, you know, seven. It's just a seven, guys. It's a pre-con. It's a seven. The classic, it's a seven. It's my Atraxa seven. It's not that Atraxa, but it's a seven. Yeah. Ur Dragon, anyone? Do you remember when I built my Varchild deck and you were like, what level you thinking it is? like, I'm kind thinking it's like a six. It's like maybe a strong six. was so synergized that. But I'm giving you guys tokens. I was pissed. That is one of the saltiest I've ever seen you. You were like. This is bullshit. This is not a six, dude. That's what I'm saying is like, I went into the game, Kevin and talked about this multiple times. We do not have all the time in the world to play Magic. I wish we did. We have full-time jobs. We have wives. We have kids. We have friends that don't play Magic as well, but like, you know, they're out the door anyway. It's just hard getting older, like getting people together, you know? So yeah, exactly. And when we play together, I want to have a good time. And that day I did not have a good time, because I asked you point blank. It was a brand new deck. was like, Hey bud, like what you running? And you're like, ⁓ I feel like it's a six. And by the time we got to like turn four, I was like, this is not a six. Like, yeah, don't care. You could have told me it was a nine and I would have been like, okay. But I would have been better prepared for the situation. just had that nine upside down. I read it wrong. That's all. ⁓ My mistake. Yeah. Yeah. You know, no, this, I mean, look, we're, we're, we're being a dead horse here, but like, that is what I think is really awesome about the bracket system is it just allows language. It allows, it allows guidelines to guide conversations during pregame to make everyone pick the best deck and have the best game. Like that's, that's what we're here to do. That's what we want to do. Right. And like, I don't want, I don't want. to be playing a bracket, high powered bracket three or four and have someone be playing a bracket one and I just steamroll them. I don't want to be on the other end of that either. Like I want to have a good game where everyone is on even ground. And I think the bracket system allow that, especially with the game changers, right? Like it just. I think that's huge. The game changers are something I think was well needed. I like it. I don't have any, you know, Reservations about cards that are on that list. ⁓ I agree with most of them I I think there's a couple more that should be added Yeah, but ⁓ Maybe some blue cards Here we go, here we go, okay, you're gonna rain core on the list. No, I'm gonna put heroic intervention That is a when that car Whispers, you say that? Watsi is listening. No, I'm happy. I'm pretty happy with... ⁓ Heroic Intervention is... I think it should be on the list. ⁓ That card should not be a green card. ⁓ Or at least for that cheap of mana. you I need... You know what? You and I coming up... Let's project in the future here little bit. ⁓ I need to love green a little bit more. You need to love blue a little bit more. We all need to love Simic a little bit more. No, no, no, no, no, no. We do not need to love Simic anymore. Simic people love themselves enough. Yeah, they love themselves enough for everybody. There's a lot to love about blue. There's a lot to love about green. We could love a little bit more about that, but yeah, I think the Game Changers is a huge ad. And I do think the bracket system is definitely a huge step in the right direction. And I think they're just gonna keep evolving and keep progressing that over time to kind of fine tune that a little bit. But I think it's a really great start. ⁓ I'm pretty happy with it. And I think you and I are really trying to focus here on this bracket two and three. ⁓ I don't know a lot of people who play one. I know you're out there guys. I know you're out there, but. I would say the majority is playing in that 2, 3, and maybe 4 range. ⁓ Obviously, yeah, I mean, proper decks would be 1. But I mean, you got the whole CEDH community ⁓ as well. So we love you guys too. But ⁓ I think the majority of commander players are in that 2, 3, and 4. So we kind of want to spend the most time there. But ⁓ we can go into, let's go into 4. Let's just finish it. Come on, man. Let's Let's do it. 4. Optimize. All right. All your high power commanders. It's time to go wild. Time to go wild. Yeah. I think there's a, think both bracket four and five, ⁓ it's free reign as long as, ⁓ you know, nothing on the band list. Yep. There's no cards allowed from the band list and there that's the only restriction. Yep. And the only other words that are used for bracket five, which is CEDH, ⁓ is high power with a very competitive. Metagame focused mindset. So clearly that says I'm here to beat some ass. Yeah, and I'm gonna win. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and I think yeah, I mean CEDH has a whole you know, it's a whole different meta then then kind of the You know what I would consult consider normal ⁓ You know commander players out there CEDH brackets man, that should be a tax bracket Cause that's how expensive it can get. Yep, exactly. I don't have 10 grand a drop on a deck. No, no I do not. But did you know that CDH tournaments you can have an entire proxy deck? Yes, I did know that and that's cool. I think that's great. Cause I think for them they're really looking in the experience of like the game play itself and like, ⁓ you know, that is where it's competitive is like, you know. ⁓ on stack interaction and making sure they're making the right plays. I don't think they care about, you know, if it's real or not, you know, which I think is great. I think that's a great thing to do for the CDH community because that just allows more people to get involved in that. So I won't be doing that, but if you want to run proxies, you run proxies. It does not matter to me. Yeah, I don't care. If there's a card you want to try, try it out. Yeah. There's tons of cards that I want to try and I'm like, I don't really want to pay like five, 10, 20. Okay. That's a steep number for me. let's talk about this real quick. I, this game has gotten so expensive. is when I started the mortgage this month or you want to buy a booster box. And that is why I cycle through decks. Usually like I have to get rid of a deck to get store credit to get a new deck. Usually. And it's like, I can't have more, you know, but this, okay. After my land base, let's say a two color deck, even if I'm going like basics, if I go on land base and like, let's say I'm running like 10 to 12 mana ramp, you know, if I'm going Arfax, even your basic, your Sol Ring that's reprinted in every, you know, pre-con, your Arcane Signet that's reprinted in every pre-con. Those are over a dollar. Those are still a couple bucks each, dude. You know, you got all your mana rocks, like your Signets and your Talismans and your... It gets expensive, dude. It's like, I'm already at like 50 bucks and I'm like... That's just to like enter into the game, you know, kinda, you know, before even putting any of the good juice in there, you know? And it's like... look at Skull Clamp. That's one of your staples. I love Skull Clamp. That thing has gone from like down to a couple bucks all the way back up to like 15. 10, 15. Down back down to 10. Gets reprinted down to four, back up to 10. It just goes up and down. Up and down. And I think, I remember back in the day, like when we first started, Me spending over $5 for a card, was like, this card is bonkers. It's got to be good, right? And now I'm like, five now, you know, it's like, that's like a mat-a-rock now. we talked about this earlier. That's why we love Commander. That's how we got into this game. Kevin and I started playing standard. That's how we played 60 card standard decks. And I just was like, man, I was paying like $20 for thought seasons. I was paying like, you know, $15, $20 for, you know, Erebos. My black deck. Yeah. Yeah. Your monoblock devotion deck, right? Dude, the Grey Merchant. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. I love Grey Merchant. All those cards were just like ridiculous. And you could run four copies of them. And by the time you're done with that deck, you're like, okay, you know, I spent a couple hundred dollars on this. the set just rotated? Oh, great. Yeah. Can't play those anymore. you know, we... found a different way to play. know, in modern was way too expensive. Especially legacy. Or vintage, geez. that's... In that tax bracket. You gotta own a business to be doing something like that. ⁓ yeah, the game is expensive. So I mean, I just want people to play. I want people to have fun. ⁓ I've, you know, we talked about it last... I think last episode or two ago, I had this like weird thing about proxies, whereas like, I don't really like them and I just feel weird playing them. But you know what? Like if it helps me stay within that bracket level of my group, I'm okay running them, you know? Like as long as the card's legible and... And you know what, like if, especially for you, cause I think you're more of like, well, I want to own that card because you know, there's value in it. But guess what? Like... If you play like a lot of blue, Yeah. So would it be beneficial? Let's just say, I know you don't run this card, but you bought a RISC study. I knew you were going to say that card. Just saying. Yeah. So Connocrift, whatever. A blue game changer. Sure. Those are two pretty much staple cards, you know? Yeah. Good cards. If you had one copy of that. and had four blue decks and you ever run four of them would it be beneficial to run a proxy if you owned one or would you buy four ⁓ god no no no no no no no I would never buy four that's like Glover Glover has you know you know mocks amber and mocks opal and like ⁓ he has dual lands he runs proxies in some of the in some of his decks because you know he doesn't want to like You know, some of them are in slabs. Yeah, you don't want to lower the value. Nines and tens. And he's like, I don't want to play those because they're in slabs. How are going to shuffle the slabs? Yeah, you'll always know where it's at. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, we're on a little side tangent here, but I think it's really nice to just be like, you know what, dude, play the cards you want. especially if you're in a group with friends, I, I don't know anybody that cares, you know, like maybe if it's like you're. playing out of bracket, you know, and someone's playing a lot lower power than you and you got proxies. I think they'd be more mad that they were playing out of bracket than actually having proxies. I don't even think that is either. Turn zero conversation. Yep. Guess what people I'm sitting down at your table and I'm going to tell you everything that I want you to know about my deck. And guess what? Do you guys have a problem with proxies? ⁓ you do? Okay. Well, I only have three proxies. Here's what they are. Is that okay? Okay, you know and then you can move on from there I Would be more upfront with someone talking about that that I would someone downplaying what bracket system yes Yes, if they show up to the table and say ⁓ it's a three and I find out it's a four Midgame or whatever. I'm gonna freak out. I'll flip a table. Yeah Yeah, we go back to magic on and talk about that? Yeah, right magic on What a funny story that was. Hindsight, right? Hindsight is 2020. Yeah, you gotta have those pregame conversations and that is what the bracket system is here to do. ⁓ you know, it's important to talk to people, it's important to socialize, it's important to ⁓ get on the same page. this game, the Commander, it ⁓ is a journey that four, I guess, or more, players or less, guess. Hopefully four players go on. It's a journey that four players go on, but it just happens to be one winner. That's it. Hopefully you guys are all at the same power level. And I think the bracket system goes a long way to doing that. So here's to, ⁓ you know, having better conversations with your friends, ⁓ with your fellow Magic the Gathering players and ⁓ use this to help you have fun. That's it for top thick therapy and ⁓ we'll see you next time.