ZimboPy

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Created: 7/6/2024 4:21:18 PM
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Your host as usual is Tobias Macy. And today I'm interviewing Marlene Mangami,
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Mike Place and Ronald Maravanyika
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about ZimboPy,
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an organization that teaches women and girls in Zimbabwe how to program using Python. So, Marlene, could you start by introducing yourself?
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Sure. Yes. My name is Marlene, and I take on the role as the programs,
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director of ZindoPie.
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So, basically, I just sort of hedge in general the day to day
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sort of runnings of the organization.
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Somebody else hit on me. I'm on the board of directors
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of the Python Software Foundation,
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and I I'm really interested in nonprofit work and and working with communities. And, Mike, can you introduce yourself?
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Sure. My name is, Mike Place. I'm from Salt Lake City, Utah.
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My day job,
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I am the director of engineering at, SaltStack,
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which,
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many people may know as, being, 1 of the world's largest,
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open source,
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Python projects.
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And, I am also,
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on the board and work,
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with Marlene
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and Ronald on Symblpy.
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So, Ronald, could you introduce yourself, please? Yeah. So
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I started learning Python by incident, if I may say.
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I was,
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still a student,
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and
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I had to go for for internship.
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So during my internship, we we had a problem with 1 of our databases that we were working on,
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and,
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we needed to design a whole new,
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database.
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So
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I come from an engineering
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background.
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That is mechatronics.
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So
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not having enough experience in in in IT, I had to Google around.
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And that's when I found out about,
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Python.
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And,
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I got lucky and got a scholarship,
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to start,
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Python.
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Soon after the scholarship
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Yeah.
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That was that. And, I just fell in love with, the Python community itself,
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and that's why I'm still developing
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with Python even now.
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And going back to you, Marlene, do you remember how you first got introduced to Python?
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Yes. I,
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I remember,
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actually, it was through Ron that I I got introduced to Python. I had been looking for
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I I knew I wanted to start an initiative surrounding
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girls and and technology, and I met Ron because I was looking for some programmers to sort of,
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partner with to do
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some workshops for girls, and I met Ron. And Ron
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is a is a Python
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enthusiast, so he sort of convinced me that the language was good. And,
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we actually started off, you know, using the Django Girls curriculum,
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and it was already, you know, a really simple curriculum to follow. And so that's that's basically actually how I how I got introduced to Python. And, Mike, do you remember how you got introduced to Python?
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I do. I got introduced,
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to Python,
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as a a developer
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first working on web applications,
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which I did for a couple of years.
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And then,
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very early on, I started working with, Thomas Hatch, whom I think you know, I think you've interviewed in the very early days of, of SaltStack, and and we worked together on that. And,
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I've been working on that and writing in Python, ever since then.
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And so I'm wondering if you 1 of you can start by explaining what is the mission of Zimbopai.
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Explain a bit about what the organization is and does and how it first got started.
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So, yes, Zimbopai is an initiative
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that aims to get Symblian girls interested in computer programming and, specifically,
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programming in Python.
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So the mission is is basically that to to get girls interested in computer programming from a young age and going on through
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to university,
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level as well.
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How we got started was
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so the all 3 of us,
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have a passion for,
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you know, empowering communities.
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So on my end of it, I really wanted to see
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Zimbabwean girls really have tools
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to get into technology and to have a skill that I felt that they could use to maybe get ahead in the world. There's a lot of, gender inequality
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in Zimbabwean culture sometimes as there is all over the world.
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And, Mike, do you have anything else to add to that?
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Sure. I,
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became involved,
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when, I traveled to Zimbabwe.
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The community there was kind enough to invite me to keynote at their first ever,
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PyCon in Harare.
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And, I I met an amazing,
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community of,
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really, really smart, really, really passionate Python developers there.
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And, I happen to be, sitting in the back of that conference, the last day that I was there.
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And,
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Ron got up and started talking about, his desire to teach Python to, to young girls,
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in Zimbabwe.
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And
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when you were starting Zimbopie,
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were there other languages that you considered beyond Python
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for using in the curriculum?
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And if so, what was your reason for ultimately choosing Python as the primary language to work with? Okay. So for Python, for us, it it wasn't an option really. There were no other languages for us. Because initially when we started, we were doing workshops
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just like, the Jungle Girls workshop.
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So
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we followed through their way of doing things.
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So we just decided to adapt with,
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Python and Django. But what really made us stick with Python Python is, the fact that the Python community is
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is very friendly, and it's it's big. People are willing to give you their time
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for for free.
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They're willing to help you for free.
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So that's why we we release that to
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to the,
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Python community.
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And in addition to
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the pure programming aspects
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of software engineering,
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what other subject matter do you cover in the workshops? And also, if you can just describe a bit about how the workshops are structured
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and what the overall experience is like for the women and girls who are, engaging with Symbopie.
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Alright.
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So
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we have a really broad spectrum of,
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of the way we do things. So firstly, we have,
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the active community, which is,
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the community centers.
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So basically, what we do is, we have, a community center, which is just a building,
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which is, which belongs to the local government. So
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get girls, young girls, teenagers, and then they come into our community center. So
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we teach them every week the from the basics of Python. Then after they are comfortable with the basics of Python, we then move on to the website development,
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side of things. That's where we start. From the from the web development, we move on to the Raspberry Pi where we do various,
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small projects with with,
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with the Raspberry Pi.
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We also do a bit of, data analysis,
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but that's
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at an advanced level now. So the other group that we have is we work with, universities.
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So with universities, what we do is,
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we call it the ment the mentorship week.
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So what we try to do is we we get developers
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to come and help out with,
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projects
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that,
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the student that are build on. For example, the last 1 that we had, which was in in in October, if if I'm not October or November, if I'm not mistaken. We had the girls working on, very interesting projects. 1 of the interesting projects was,
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the 1 they created,
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an OpenCV
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application
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where,
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they could identify
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how many people are in a camera
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through through through the the the use of the Raspberry Pi. We also did some data analysis for
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use in in,
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insurance companies.
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The case study there was was the Titanic, basically, to say in the Titanic who was most likely to to to die. That was just the basics of using data
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data analysis.
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We had a couple of guys from from
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from a European company called, Sentebo.
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They came to help us with that. Yeah. So there are a lot of projects that that we we work on. They and and they're in different sections. It's not we are just not, sticking to to 1 section. But for the advanced girls, those that are university,
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we are trying to move away from work development because,
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a lot is being covered in that area. So we are we are moving to other areas,
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such as the use of the Raspberry Pi data analysis,
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stuff like that. So really depends with,
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the mentor that we get.
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And how do you
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advertise
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to the communities that you're serving that,
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Zimbo Pi is available as an option for them, and how do you get the women and girls interested in taking part in your workshops?
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Right. Yeah. So it's it's been really
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very easy for us because,
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as soon as we started, we
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we build our websites, then we advertise through our Facebook page. Students were already interested, and,
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we were getting students through parents
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and,
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high schools.
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So, basically, a teacher will come in and say,
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I heard you. You have a workshop.
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I have,
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so much number of kids that I want them to join your your program.
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We we only have a few computers, so we
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we grade the students. Basically, we are we are choosing for for the girls that that are really good at math and,
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who are in the science subject
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to if if if I may say.
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So
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the advertising itself is basically social media
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and,
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the world of mouth itself. The marketing part of it, it's it's not really a struggle,
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because
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already students, they're interested,
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when they heard, about the program.
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Are there any aspects of running and managing Zimbo Pi both from the logistical
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aspect and also or any, technological aspects of it that you have found to be challenging?
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So I think for us, some of,
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you know, some of the major issues
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that we faced have been maybe trying to coordinate with the girls in terms of their schedules and to also coordinate. We work a lot with local government,
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and so
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it's really difficult to coordinate the 2 because the girls,
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most of their curriculum in school has just
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shifted. And so sometimes
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having
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to work with
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their schedules from school, and then also working with
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our local government offices
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and trying to make sure that they know when we'll be
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using the community centers and for how long. That's been
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a serious challenge for us sometimes, but overall it's
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been okay. Something we also faced was
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really just having the girls starting from scratch and knowing that the majority of the girls that come to our
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our coding clubs will have never, you know, touched a computer before in their lives and won't have access to a computer
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at home. And so those are are some things that we struggle with in terms of,
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you know, helping the girls be consistent in terms of learning and remembering
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what we've we've taught them because they don't usually have the ability to maybe go back home
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and and practice there. So all the learning has to be done in the center. So,
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sometimes that's challenging.
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Yeah. So just like as, Marlene was
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saying, programming, it's it's
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it becomes a way of life for for you to catch it.
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Yeah. You can just get into
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the community center, learn some stuff and not practice,
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and expect to to
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to be able to be perfect on that. So
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besides,
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the that that fact,
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financially,
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of course, we we are not a big organization.
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So financially, we
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were still struggling.
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So
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dealing with that fact of,
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financial struggle
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and,
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being able to to
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take the girls into another level
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because we we would want to to get to a level where we
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we we can
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open the community center such that if if a girl is interested in
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in working
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on a project, they can just come in the commencing center and work on that.
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And
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programming mostly
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needs Internet
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because you need to Google,
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some simple things. You
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the mentor is not always there to
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to
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help you through.
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So,
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of course, we we need Internet, and we have been trying to to coordinate with local,
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companies that, have Internet,
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but, we are still struggling on that.
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Yeah. Otherwise,
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pretty much in this
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aspects of, running Symbl Pie,
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I think those are the the the the major challenges.
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Oh, 0, sorry. Also,
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we we are still building the the curriculum, so need some some help,
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putting in more content on on the curriculum,
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which is, hosted at,
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GitHub.
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So I'd welcome people who want to to contribute
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to to the curriculum.
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Alright. And I'll add a link to that in the show notes so that anybody can,
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go there and if they have any
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ideas on contributions,
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they can go ahead and submit them. Cool. Thank you. And you mentioned that 1 of the challenges
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is in terms of the
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financial support. So I'm wondering if you can speak a bit
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to how Zimbapai is funded and any plans that you have to ensure future sustainability.
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So
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we've been,
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applying for for grants and, partnerships.
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So
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at the moment, we
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are in partnership with, GitHub. They they were 1 of our first corporate
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sponsor.
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We
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also
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get,
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donations from,
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developers
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who are interested in the in the in the in the project.
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So we go to different,
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PyCon conferences.
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And from there, that's where we we get,
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connections and,
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links to developers that may be interested in in funding the project.
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Then also ourself,
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we
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we we we sell,
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Zimbopai products.
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Of later, I've been hearing a lot of people
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really
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interested,
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in our T shirts because of our logo.
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So we we we sell T shirts.
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We also try to do fundraising,
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programs
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so that we can help ourselves with,
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the sustainability.
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But in terms of,
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the future,
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we really need to,
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be established
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probably in the states because that's where most of our our, funding coming from.
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But, the
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the challenge now is the fact that,
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our country is under,
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the there's a data sanctions.
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So under these sanctions, a company which is in America cannot,
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cannot fund
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us directly.
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So if ourself can we if we can be able to to to get registered
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in the States
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or get a big
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non profit,
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let's say,
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Oxfam. They already work in the in the in the in the community.
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So if you can get a company
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like Oxfirm, which is willing to receive funds
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and then, channel the funds to ourselves,
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that can be able to to help us in terms of, sponsorships.
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So what we mean is when we go to conferences,
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every time we speak,
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our partner, they they they will be having our logo on on, our presentations.
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Then we are also in partnership with, the Python Zimbabwe community.
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So they've allowed us to
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put in
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marketing material for
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for our sponsors
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in in their rooms.
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So
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in terms of
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our future plans to to help us ourselves with
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sustainability,
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I think that's that's our main plan with sustainability.
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And then,
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to also reduce costs, we are going to be inputting back
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the girls that would have finished through the program. So they will just come in
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and, teaching those,
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who are coming in as the new group.
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So so that it it remains a cycle because currently, as we speak, we we we pay the person
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who will be mentoring the girls through through the program. So in terms of the future,
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mainly, that's that's that's our plan.
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And in terms of having
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the, corporate entity for being able to receive funds, have you looked at all into the work that Open Collective is doing and whether that would work for your situation?
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Not really. I I haven't really looked through,
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the open entity,
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how they they they do it. But,
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when when when the there's a there are sanctions, what they say is,
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they shouldn't fund certain people who are under sanctions. But the only problem with that is these people were under sanction. They owned companies that owned companies that owned companies. So
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for an organization to fund us, they should have
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a complete
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a complete documentation to say that these people are not linked
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whatsoever
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to to the people who are under sanctions. So
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that's that's only where the challenge is.
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And,
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Mike, you were starting to say before how
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your
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main involvement
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is with helping in terms of offering mentorship. So I'm wondering if you can speak a bit about that aspect
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of the Zimbo Pi organization
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and some of the ways that the community can help with offering mentoring and also just how the, mentoring structure functions.
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Sure. I'd be happy to. There are 2 main ways, that mentors can participate,
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in our program.
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We have mentorship weeks. We hold them a couple of times a year, and it's when a group of girls will come together for about a week of intensive study,
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and often to work on a collective project together. Now,
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we pair them up, with, mentors, some of whom come in, remotely via video conference
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and, some of whom are there on-site.
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So there are opportunities for people who wish to travel,
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to Zimbabwe
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and spend a week,
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working directly,
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with our teams there, and there are opportunities for people who might just have, an hour or 2 during the day and want to,
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contribute
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to the project. It doesn't take too much to, to participate,
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remotely.
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We we spend a little bit of time getting people prepared, and then,
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we, just,
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we set them up with, with small groups of girls,
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and they work, they work together through some sets of problems or they work together on the project. Now, of course, as Ron said, there are also more traditional,
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open source opportunities. If you go to the zimbopi GitHub page, you'll see places where, people who want to contribute can also help us write documentation,
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things of that nature. So, yeah, it's pretty straightforward. If somebody wants to become a a mentor, all they need to do is, head on over,
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to the Symblpy web page, and, there's a inquiry form there. Once they fill it out, somebody on our team will get back to them and, and we'll help them find a place and time that they can and,
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the and, the ways that they have been able to benefit from their time with Zimbopai?
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South Urban is relatively
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new. We've been running for maybe about a year and a half, close to 2 years. So
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I would say that we still are working with the same group that we started with and,
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except maybe for the mentorship. But overall, we've really seen,
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some of the girls that have attended maybe our mentorship week have really said that the program has,
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inspired them to continue
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working hard, you know, and and pursue computer science. So a lot of the girls maybe will I think there's,
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there's a Python programming coding club on campus at 1 of the universities that we did a a mentorship week with. And as a result of that, I think, a good number of all of the girls that attended our mentorship
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session have joined that Taipan programming club and are actually the only girls that are part of that, programming club. So I think it's it's really a testament to show that, you know, we really initially did pique the interest of the girls. And so they're really engaging with the community on campus. They're not being intimidated
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by maybe not the the guys that are there in the same, space. But I think it's just feedback
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from the professors that we've worked with in terms of, the girls improving and and their interest levels in class in, you know, their their day to day school activities being heightened because of the program. And then I would say, you know, the girls are just excited to be there at the in the community center. They really they message us all the time and are asking when, you know, we're gonna meet and and want to meet regularly. So I think that is also just a company that's good, and they have built, you know, small things, not huge projects in the community center club. But, yeah, we're we're really excited at the progress that we're making. At the moment, it's a bit premature to see that because they're all still in university, but hopefully hopefully soon.
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For anybody who is interested
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in replicating the type of work that you're doing for your community in Zimbabwe
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and their own local communities, is there any particular advice that you can give to them?
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I think I would say for for anyone that's looking to
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do something similar
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that,
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you know, a major thing is
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focusing, I would say, on on creating, not just looking at
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the programming aspect, I think,
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you know, as we as we talked about before, but
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also trying to make sure that
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you build community and that the the the girls that are in your
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program feel like they are,
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they have a sisterhood and that they
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are connected and that they can come to you for advice.
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I think that's a major
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part of making
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the girls keep
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that that makes the the girls that are in the program keep coming back.
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So I would say focusing on that a lot is a good thing and,
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you know, especially, you know, in in Africa, I would say,
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not letting,
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you know, difficult circumstances
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stand in your way. Sometimes we
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been faced by with a lot of,
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technical problems or just lack of resources.
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And I would say in those cases to try and be as creative as you can and also
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try and and be as laid back as possible
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with some of those situation.
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But, yeah, I think if if the focus is just building community, making sure
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that your students are enjoying
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the program,
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then then I think you you would be successful with that.
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So if you could each add your preferred contact information to the show notes, and I'll move this into the pics. And so this week, I'm going to choose a library called Qlik from Armin Ronneker, which is a
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library for making it easier to build composable command line applications.
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So I've been playing around with that a little bit lately and enjoying that, and it's been getting a lot of positive reviews. So for anybody who is looking to build that kind of an application,
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it's definitely worth checking out. And so with that, I appreciate you all taking the time out of your day to join me and work through the technical difficulties that we had recording
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And, tell me about the work you've been doing with Zimbo Pi. Yeah. It's definitely a very interesting project that you're working with, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you so much for for having us.