WEBVTT
1
00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:15.480
Hey, everybody woud to the Movie Guide. I am Brendandana
2
00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.519
of the four Finger Discount Network, joined right now by
3
00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:22.760
Guy Davis. Hello, they're Dan and the reviewers of all reviewers.
4
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.600
He is the graand Pooba he is Leonard Moulton. How
5
00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:26.800
are you so, Pooh?
6
00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:31.000
And bars are you sir? Thanks to the welcome.
7
00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:34.520
One might say the Achilles of film criticism, the legendary
8
00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:38.240
warrior of film crism. What a silky segue, because today
9
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.840
we're going to be talking about sword and Sandal epics.
10
00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:43.520
Why are we doing that? Well, we are recording this
11
00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:47.280
just prior to the release of Christopher Nolan's new epic,
12
00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:49.039
The Odyssey. It's going to be out or so in
13
00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:52.280
about a week the time recording this. But I think
14
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.320
they have had the world premiere, they have had critics
15
00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.079
and influences along to check it out. The word is
16
00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:02.679
uniformly positive at this stage. And look, I'm not one
17
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:04.879
to make predictions, but I'm guessing by the time you
18
00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:08.519
hear this podcast, it will have made three billion dollars preemptively,
19
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.680
been awarded ten Oscars, and also won the World Cup,
20
00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:13.680
which is, you know, something of the moves don't normally
21
00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:16.280
do so, yeah, props to the Odyssey, well done. But
22
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:19.599
let's go back in time. Not back to eleven eighty
23
00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.560
four BC, the time at which the movie Troy takes places,
24
00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:24.120
which we're going to be talking about today, but we'll
25
00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:27.400
go back two decades or so when the movies rediscover
26
00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:30.239
the love of the Sword and Sandal epic. Ever since
27
00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.400
the beginnings of Hollywood, sort of historical epics have been
28
00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:35.840
I won't say the bread and butter of Hollywood, but
29
00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:39.120
they tend to re emerge every few decades or so.
30
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:43.760
New technology, new processes, everything like that, and yeah, Hollywood's like, well,
31
00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.799
let's remake ben Hur. They tend to do that.
32
00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:50.680
Well, nothing succeeds like success. And when one of those
33
00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:55.239
films scores at the box office, scores with awards, scores
34
00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:58.120
with audiences, you can bout there more coming.
35
00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.319
Very much the case, Leonard, And in this cat the
36
00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.239
turn of the century. In the year two thousand, we
37
00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:06.239
had Gladiator, directed by Ridley Scott. This was a massive
38
00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:09.879
critical and commercial success, won the Best Picture, Oscar, won
39
00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:12.840
the Best Actor Oscar for Russell Crowe as well. In
40
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:15.840
the wake of that success, studios went back to the classics.
41
00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.000
They were looking at the reign of Alexander the Great.
42
00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:20.240
They were looking at the Crusades, and they were looking
43
00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.479
at Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. They wanted to recapture that
44
00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:26.560
great sense of spectacle and scale, and this time augmented
45
00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.599
by massive budgets, movie stars, and state of the art
46
00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:32.919
special effects. One of these was Troy in two thousand
47
00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:36.719
and four. Is the thing that this was eventually directed
48
00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:38.960
by Wolfgang Peterson, who's got a list of credits as
49
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:40.439
long as your arm. When we will talk about those.
50
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.639
But before he was handled the director's chair, it was
51
00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.240
offered to one Christopher Nolan. He'd made his not his debut,
52
00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:49.360
but he'd sort of made his breakout from with Memento.
53
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:51.759
He'd shown that he'd work within the studio system with
54
00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:55.199
his remake of Insomnia, and Warner Brothers said, we can
55
00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:58.159
maybe trust this guy with something a little bigger. Instead,
56
00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.439
the director's chair went to Wolfgang Peterson and Nolan was
57
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:05.919
given the consolation prize of directing Batman Begins. But yeah,
58
00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.199
Troy is what we're talking about today. This is a
59
00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.240
retelling of the Trojan War.
60
00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:14.400
Essentially, it could be called Achilles, because that would still
61
00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.039
give a very pet the title role, which is a
62
00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.680
necessity because he is the focal point of the film.
63
00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:25.120
Everything sort of revolves around him. Though, there's a fascinating
64
00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:29.199
cast of characters, real life characters from you know, Greek
65
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:33.800
mythology and history. I'd forgotten just how strong a cast
66
00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:38.319
it is until I revisited it last night, all the
67
00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.599
way down the line. I mean Orlando Bloom, Sean Bean,
68
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.319
the Great Brian Cox, the Great Peter O'Toole, Eric Bonna
69
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:53.479
in a one scene role, Julie Christie, Yes, the late
70
00:03:53.560 --> 00:04:01.360
Great Peter O'Toole, and Brendan Gleeson week links in that chain.
71
00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:06.479
Yeah, just a wonderful cast of up and comers, veterans, legends,
72
00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.879
and even in as you think, in like one scene
73
00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.479
roles or just in bit parts or character parts, you know,
74
00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:16.319
in supporting roles, just faces and that you'll recognize faces
75
00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:18.360
and voices that you'll recognize. I mean, they clearly went
76
00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:20.920
all out. They didn't didn't just throw a bunch of
77
00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:22.759
money at Brad Pitton then said, oh, we'll get a
78
00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.560
bunch of no names to round out the cast. No,
79
00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.920
they really stack this, and I think that's evident across
80
00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:31.199
the board. With Troy I mean it's just a quality
81
00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.879
production from sort of go to woe. I mean this
82
00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:36.000
is a big budget movie. I mean this is constantly
83
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.279
two hundred million dollars back in nearly two thousands, when
84
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:39.920
two hundred dollars actually meant something.
85
00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.000
You see where the money went, you really do. It's
86
00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.279
the scale of production. It's talked about the word epic.
87
00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.480
If you look up epic in the dictionary, it may
88
00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:52.439
well be a freeze frame of Troy. The thousand ships
89
00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:57.560
that Helen metaphorically launches are all there. You can tell them.
90
00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:03.959
Greek army fills onto the shores of Cecily. Is majestic
91
00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.800
and its skulle, it really is, and it gives all
92
00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.480
his actors something to play with, some meat to chew on,
93
00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:16.360
and irradiant maybe that's the wrong word, but irradiant and incredible.
94
00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:20.279
Leading man Brad Pitt is the living definition of a
95
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:24.240
movie star, right, and you want a movie star to
96
00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:29.120
play this part the unconquerable or seemingly unconquerable warriors, the
97
00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:34.240
greatest warrior of this time, and to borrow words from
98
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.680
the language an Adonis as well.
99
00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.040
Very much so. Pits In's in maximum movie star mode here.
100
00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.240
I mean, he's in fantastic shape, and of course showing
101
00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.120
it off he gets some real trailer worthy lines. He
102
00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.240
wins pretty much every fight that he's in, and he
103
00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:52.240
acts honorably but also ruthlessly, so he gets a bit
104
00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:55.600
of a full rounded character here. As we know, viewers
105
00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:57.720
and listeners of the movie guide are of course history
106
00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:00.160
buffs and know everything about the Trojan War, but that
107
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.000
one point one percent that isn't a brief rundown of
108
00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.879
what Troy is actually about. It is eleven eighty four BC,
109
00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:10.920
and the brutal Agamemnon has conquered many of the kingdoms
110
00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.399
of Greece. There's one of these long coveted and that's
111
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.519
the Kingdom of Troy, but that's resisted. It's a nation
112
00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.759
or a kingdom of fighters, very very proud, very capable
113
00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.879
when it comes to battle. But when Trojan Prince Paris
114
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:25.800
falls in love with Helen, who is the wife of
115
00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.839
Agamemnon's brother Menelaus, sparks a war that is driven equally
116
00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.240
by lust for revenge and desire for power, the hardy conflict.
117
00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:35.800
You have two great soldiers. You've got the noble Trojan
118
00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:38.279
Prince Hector played by Eric banner, and you've got the
119
00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:42.000
legendary warrior Achilles, who fights for the Greeks but mainly
120
00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:45.720
for his own glory. Yeah, now that's pit As Achilles.
121
00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.040
And here's the thing about Troy. It's got a sort
122
00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:50.879
of a mixed reputation. I think a lot of people
123
00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:54.240
sort of view it as very blustery, kind of melodramatic,
124
00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.079
not exactly subtle, but I think that's part of the
125
00:06:57.079 --> 00:06:58.800
course when it comes to what we call the sword
126
00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.839
and sandal genre, right, I mean, it's usually.
127
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.160
I don't think you turned to this kind of movie
128
00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:03.800
for subtlety.
129
00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.399
You don't really do it. It's usually capital letters and
130
00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:07.839
primary colors, am I right.
131
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:11.040
Yeah, yeah, it's true. But that doesn't mean that it's
132
00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:16.120
over baked or overwrite. Perhaps this is the word we're there. Yeah,
133
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.360
I don't find it. So I think that the characters
134
00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.920
are very compelling, And what impressed me the most about
135
00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:26.279
the screenplay by David Benioff is that he takes these
136
00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:30.959
huge chunks of history and makes them personal, if not intimate. Personal.
137
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.720
You can follow what is happening because you're following the
138
00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:40.000
characters and the choices the characters make, and the circumstances
139
00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:41.240
that are heaped upon them.
140
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.240
Yeah, there's real humanity in these dare I say it?
141
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.560
Lend iconic characters, these historical characters. I mean he finds
142
00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.560
the humanity, the motivations in all of them, and yeah,
143
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:53.399
it works as a result. I mean Benioff, he was
144
00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.439
making a name for himself as a novelist and a
145
00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.360
screenwriter when he was commissioned to write the Troy screenplay.
146
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:00.759
He's probably best known for writing the novel that Spike
147
00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.040
Lee's twenty fifth Hour is based on, but of course,
148
00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:05.360
these days he's best known for co creating Game of Thrones.
149
00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:06.800
I really like what he does here.
150
00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:09.240
I mean, you know, the Trojan War and the events
151
00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.560
of the Iliad, and you know partially the Odyssey, and
152
00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:15.319
they're fairly sprawling, and he condenses them down into a
153
00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.800
relatively streamlined two hours plus, maybe three hours plus if
154
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:21.079
you're watching the director's cut a narrative in that way,
155
00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.439
I think he does a really pretty good job with it.
156
00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:27.240
I do it too. He was handsomely paid for his work.
157
00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.360
I read online he cashed a check for two and
158
00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:34.720
a half million dollars. Must be nice, not screenplay. I
159
00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.559
would have done it for half.
160
00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:43.039
The words on the street Now, Lenon Bolton will work cheap, yeah,
161
00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.240
but an epic movie, but yeah, with a sort of
162
00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.120
a core of humanity to it. And I think that's
163
00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:50.159
evident really in the performance is that we said, I mean,
164
00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.559
this has got a fantastic cast of movie stars, of
165
00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:53.960
movie stars on the rise.
166
00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:56.759
And of course one of the obligations of the movie
167
00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:01.000
is that you have to now reveal how of Troy
168
00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:03.519
who is going to be helen of Troy? And I
169
00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:06.879
remember seeing the movie when it was new at screaming
170
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.960
at Warner Brothers, I recall correctly, and getting my first
171
00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:15.960
look at beautiful Diane Krueger, who is indeed a beautiful woman,
172
00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.679
an unknown at the time, an unknown face to almost
173
00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.360
all of us. I dare, sir, And she's a knockout.
174
00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:23.000
She really.
175
00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:24.759
It's kind of a thankless role, but I think she
176
00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:26.759
does some pretty good stuff with it.
177
00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:27.639
Yeah.
178
00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:29.799
Yeah, I mean it's a very kind of reactive part.
179
00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:31.639
But no, I think she does good work within it.
180
00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:33.679
And it's almost a bit of a poison chalice for
181
00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:36.039
an actor, because well, you know, once you play the
182
00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:38.759
most beautiful woman in history, what do you go? Where
183
00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:40.519
do you go? From there or you know, how do
184
00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:42.799
you prove that you're capable of something more than that?
185
00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.200
I remember seeing her a few years later in Tarantino's
186
00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.279
in Glorious Bastards, in which he gives a really good performance. Yeah,
187
00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:51.080
and she's done a lot of great work in Hollywood
188
00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.360
and European productions since. Yeah, it was a great It
189
00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.039
was a great launching pad for her. There's a great
190
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.159
launching pad for a lot of people, though, you know,
191
00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:58.679
being Australian. And by the way, there's a lot of
192
00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.240
Australian representation movie. And when I say a lot, I
193
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:04.000
mean three. But you know, you've got Eric Banner as
194
00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:06.639
one of the co leads. You have, let's say, all
195
00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:12.159
Australian behemoth, Nathan Jones as the Titanic warrior who was
196
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.200
bested by Brad Pitt in the opening sequence. Viewers may
197
00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.360
remember him from Mad Max Fury Road. But you also
198
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:21.879
have Rose Burn. Now this is maybe her breakthrough Hollywood
199
00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:26.000
performance or Hollywood breakthrough, breakthrough Hollywood role. She'd of course
200
00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:27.960
worked in Australia a little bit before it. And I
201
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.919
remember thinking, you're quite adorable, but I'm not sure how
202
00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:33.039
much you've got in your Toolkit, and she's very very
203
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.519
good in this. It made me reappraise her, and of
204
00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.799
course everything she has done since has made me reappraise
205
00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:40.000
her even more. She's a fantastic actor, and yeah, I
206
00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.279
think she does such good work here as this young
207
00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.080
noble woman who is well, shall we say, brutalized and
208
00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.759
victimized by the invading Greeks. But Achilles sort of has
209
00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:49.039
a bit of a soft spot for her, and she
210
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.879
wins his heart and cools his fearsome temper. She's really
211
00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:53.480
good in it. I like Roseburn a lot in this.
212
00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:56.720
I like her and almost everything except the film that's
213
00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:57.879
got her an ask for nomination.
214
00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.399
If I had legs like Kick You, Yeah, I.
215
00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:03.759
Despise that movie. I don't mind saying.
216
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:06.000
Oh my god, we'll talk about that on a future episode.
217
00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.080
But I like her a lot, and she shows all
218
00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:12.600
the promise you just mentioned there.
219
00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:14.759
I want to talk about Eric Banner a bit. He's
220
00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:18.440
an actor who I find really interesting. Again, Australian audiences
221
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.919
knew him mostly as a comedian, as a sketch comedian.
222
00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.159
He was on i want to say, an Australian version
223
00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:25.159
of Saturday Night Live, but he sort of made a
224
00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:27.840
name for himself to Australian audiences back in the nineties
225
00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:31.320
playing these various comedic characters on TV. And it wasn't
226
00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:34.000
until the year two thousand and he's performance in the
227
00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:37.200
as the title character in Chopper that everyone start to realize,
228
00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.120
Oh wow, there's yeah, certainly more to this guy.
229
00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.120
Yeah. I think of him as a chameleon. He doesn't
230
00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.799
bring a lot of baggage with him from rule to role,
231
00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:48.960
so I find myself having no trouble believing his performances
232
00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:54.080
and across the landscape of ruis that he's made from
233
00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.600
lighthearted to deadly serious as this one is to me,
234
00:11:57.679 --> 00:11:58.639
he's always credible.
235
00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.080
Yeah, and it was very depend as well. I mean,
236
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.000
Hector is a less flashy role than Achilles. He's kind
237
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:07.799
of a square in all honesty. But I think Banner
238
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:10.600
because he has that dependable quality. He brings real strength
239
00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:12.159
and integrity to it. I was trying to think of
240
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:15.759
a comp for Eric Banner, because you can compare someone
241
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.080
like Pitt to other actors, you know, either back down
242
00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.039
the line or people who want to be like Brad
243
00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.720
Pitt now. And the only person I could really think
244
00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.080
of was like Liam Neeson, you know, someone who's very sturdy,
245
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.480
very capable. They've got star quality. But it's not sort
246
00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:31.759
of radiating off them. It's just you're more sort of
247
00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:33.840
drawn to them. They pull you in, as opposed to
248
00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.399
energy sort of beaming out of them. I don't know
249
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:37.399
if that makes any sense.
250
00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:39.960
No, it makes It makes a lot of sense. I've
251
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.879
always been a fan of Brian Cox, who has enjoyed
252
00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:47.879
He's been working steadily for decades now, but he's come
253
00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.919
to a latter day prominence. I guess he never draped
254
00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.480
on the TV series Succession Correct, where he plays the
255
00:12:55.159 --> 00:13:01.440
well Sinley Veils Rupert Murrach type patriarch and tycoon as
256
00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.600
great as he was in that series, and it was
257
00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.600
a terrific series. He's always been a really fine actor,
258
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.799
and Agamemnon is a perfect role for him because he's
259
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:17.440
commanding and sometimes overbearing, but also petty and given to
260
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:22.159
flashes of emotion, unexpected flashes of emotion, and he covers
261
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.799
all that ground and really well.
262
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:27.000
Yeah, it's a really great balancing act, isn't it. Because
263
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.000
he has these moments where he's almost like a pantomime villain.
264
00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:32.840
You know, he's almost like he's twirling a mustache at times,
265
00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.200
but then he'll slide moments of again humanity into it,
266
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.240
I mean villainous humanity, but still I recognize what drives
267
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.960
this guy. I mean, he's supposedly ruling the world, but
268
00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.799
he's frustrated by this warrior who his warrior and Achilles
269
00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:51.399
who has basically granted him that power, who he can't control.
270
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.519
There's this whole range of human emotion in the characters
271
00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.480
of Troy, you know, whether they're noble or self sacrificing,
272
00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.639
or they're petty and and brutal. That's why I think
273
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.679
it works. I mean, this is a word that I
274
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:06.279
use a lot to describe a movie. They're like, it's sturdy,
275
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:07.639
it holds up.
276
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.440
Yeah.
277
00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:10.960
There's a great double act as well with Cox and
278
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.679
Brendan Gleeson, who's is equally cruel but less wily brother.
279
00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:15.240
They're like this.
280
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:17.679
Wonderful tag team, and you know, Gleason's kind of the
281
00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.399
muscle of it, while Cox is the brains behind it all.
282
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.799
I want to do quickly about Orlando Bloom because again,
283
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.440
he's someone that I find interesting anyone who sort of
284
00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:29.639
gets who cops a bit of flag. I tend to
285
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.360
have a little little time for it. Yeah, I don't.
286
00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.720
I don't think Orlando Bloom is suffering all that much.
287
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.840
From what I understand, He's married to a supermodel, and
288
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:38.320
he's got Lord of the Rings and parts of the
289
00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.320
Caribbean money. Orlando Bloom is doing fine. But I think
290
00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.399
a lot of people call him the weak link in
291
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.320
this as Paris. I mean, Paris is this playboy prince.
292
00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:49.000
He's a weak character.
293
00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:51.879
He is he is. I mean, Paris is a weak,
294
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.360
shallow character who essentially steals Helen of Troy and kicks
295
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.360
off the whole Trojan War as a result. I don't
296
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.600
necessarily by their romance as a love for the ages, no, no,
297
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.200
but I do commend Bloom for, at the height of
298
00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:12.639
his stardom or his assent, playing a weak, shallow character
299
00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.720
like Paris with such commitment. I mean, this is a
300
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:18.200
character who, in the middle of a fight is really
301
00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:20.840
getting his ass handed to him and scurries away like
302
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.159
a little coward. He runs to him, He runs to
303
00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.639
his big brother and basically grasped onto his leg and says,
304
00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.519
save me, save me. I don't think many young actors
305
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.399
would do that, So I've got to give him respect
306
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.399
for that, and he's well cast, shall we say.
307
00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.519
Yes is? Yes, he is and you believe him? And
308
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.559
Eric Banner has brothers.
309
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:41.200
You do you do?
310
00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:41.519
Yeah?
311
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.320
I like their dynamic together. And look, Bloom may seem
312
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:47.679
out of his depth sharing the screen with Peter O'Toole,
313
00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:49.360
but honestly, who wouldn't.
314
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.919
If you had a cast of film today. Peter o'toles
315
00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.759
has gone to his greater reward. Who is there to
316
00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.639
take his place? That's for anyone.
317
00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.919
Yes, I'm not sure because how old o'tool have been
318
00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.600
at this stage. He would have been in his late seventies,
319
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:05.000
early eighties perhaps.
320
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.039
Yeah, he was still working to the very end of
321
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:08.720
his life.
322
00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:11.960
I'd have to say maybe someone like Ian McKellen perhaps,
323
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.120
or Ah or Charles Dance seems to be the go
324
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.080
to for these kind.
325
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.320
Of guys these days. Mm hmm, how there aren't any left.
326
00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.279
That's true. O'tool's marvelous, though his presence and his power
327
00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.440
is sort of underlooted. He's not the declarative young man
328
00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.240
that he was in Lawrence of Arabia that was what
329
00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:35.720
for five decades earlier. But the scenes that he has
330
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:41.200
with with Bloom, with Banner, with Kruger, and particularly with Pitt,
331
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.279
you can sense that Pitt is, if not oded, then
332
00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.399
he respects the majesty of sharing the screen with Peter O'Toole.
333
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.799
Yes, I've never seen him speak on that subject or
334
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.919
address that subject, but I can't imagine that he would
335
00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.159
feel anything other than respect. If not, Ah could be
336
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.799
just a case of real life and art blending together.
337
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.440
So the benefit of the movie and the benefit of
338
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:08.319
us and the audience.
339
00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.559
Absolutely, I think we both enjoy this movie. Having said that,
340
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.400
there are people behind the scenes who weren't necessarily that
341
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.119
big a fan of it. O'tall is one of them.
342
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.839
He apparently did not get along with the director Peterson,
343
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.799
by the way, hit himself. He said, look, I was
344
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:24.880
meant to make another movie for Warner Brothers. I fell
345
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:28.039
out of that one, and I was contractably obliged to
346
00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:29.960
make a movie for them. They put me into Troy.
347
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:33.119
He's not the biggest fan of the movies. He calls
348
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.160
it a commercial kind of thing with no mystery as
349
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.279
his quote, and he says about his own performance, I
350
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.640
make my own mistakes in it. I can understand where
351
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.119
he's coming from, but again, I think he wants to
352
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.640
give a little more complexity to something like Troy that
353
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.720
it doesn't exactly warrant, so understand why he's coming from.
354
00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.359
I don't want to talk about Peterson, though, because he
355
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.640
makes what could be called dad movies, or what I
356
00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.359
might disrepidly call hangover movies. If you're wed, had one
357
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.240
or two on a Saturday night and you're feeling a
358
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.039
little under the weather on a Sunday, don't want to
359
00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.440
do much at all. You just want to sort of
360
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.519
line the couch and groan, but also have something on
361
00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:12.680
in the background. The movies of Wolfgang Peterson and now,
362
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.839
admittedly he sort of made his name with dust Boot,
363
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.119
one of the great war movies of our time, but
364
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:21.759
if you look at titles like in the Line of Fire, Outbreak,
365
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.319
Air Force One, or The Perfect Storm, its like, yeah,
366
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.359
these are good dad movies, but they're also I don't
367
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:28.440
think too much, but I have to have my brain
368
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.279
on a little bit, I have to be a bit engaged,
369
00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.400
And yeah, I think he did that just about as
370
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.480
well as anybody, and Troy's a really good example of that.
371
00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:39.079
I think. Remember this was made twenty two years ago
372
00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:44.039
and it was still the early phase, the early chapters
373
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.799
of computer generated imagery. Or a CGI as we call
374
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:52.359
it now, And there is a risk of looking mechanical
375
00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.039
at times or artificial at times. When you have these
376
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.160
huge flyover shots of the walls of the city and
377
00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.680
the Trojan horse who shows up of course before the
378
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.359
end of the story, and these vast, vast armies of
379
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:13.440
soldiers I do mean vast, you risk them looking slightly unreal.
380
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:15.759
I think this film makes them look real.
381
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.279
It does are right that thousand ships that we talk about, you,
382
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.720
they look pretty authentic. I think this does the great
383
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.119
thing that a lot of those early two thousands movies
384
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.480
do in terms of they can bind computer generated effects
385
00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:29.039
with a lot of live act and a lot of
386
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.519
practical stuff. I mean this, you can sort of feel
387
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.279
the sand on the skin and the dirt under the
388
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:35.279
fingernails in a lot of situations here.
389
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.960
Yes, now a film makes you feel aloof you're drawn
390
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:43.240
into what's going on. And Peterson has an ability to
391
00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:47.680
intercut close up action. I'm talking about using fists and
392
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:53.119
shields and armor and spears and arrows and god knows
393
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:57.920
what else with wider shots and even wider shots. But
394
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:03.319
because they're intercuts so expertly, they're very forceful, very forceful.
395
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:14.440
Got very tactile quality Troy double feature, Leonard.
396
00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.680
Double feature, one cartoon, and a couple of trailers. That's
397
00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:18.839
all youah, correct sir.
398
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.240
We doubt anyone has the time and or stamina to
399
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:25.880
go another three hours after maybe watching the three hour
400
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.119
director's cut of Troy. But this was a really interesting
401
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:32.160
time post Gladiator in Hollywood. We had a handful of
402
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.160
sword and Sandal epics that came out. Ridley Scott's Kingdom
403
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.240
of Heaven, which I think met with a fairly mixed
404
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.440
response serious theatrical run, but its reputation has been very
405
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.720
much enhanced by the director's cut that was released on
406
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.519
home video, added about another hour or so.
407
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:48.440
That's like a four hour exercise, right.
408
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.960
It is, But it's it's worth it. I mean, it's
409
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.880
I think been appraised as one of Ridley Scott's best works.
410
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:55.960
That's what I hear.
411
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.680
Yeah, and again Orlando Bloom in the lead possible weekly
412
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:01.759
But again I think he does what's askedive and I
413
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.599
think he does it pretty well. But he is surrounded
414
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.880
by an array of fantastic talent in that movie. Here's
415
00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.599
one that you might enjoy, Alexander by Oliver Stone, when
416
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.279
we were discussing talking about Troy. I think you were
417
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.240
thinking that we might talk about Alexander, and you were
418
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.400
quick to kai Bosch that idea.
419
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:23.359
I gave Alexander a try when Oliver Stone sent a
420
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.279
letter to all the members of the LA Film Critics
421
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:31.039
Organization saying that he had recited and re edited and
422
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:34.839
begged our indulgence to give it one more try. So
423
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.400
I did to No avail.
424
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.400
Still didn't work. Yeah, there are I think maybe three
425
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:42.880
or four different cuts of Alexander going around.
426
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:43.720
Yeah.
427
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.319
I admire it because it feels like the last great
428
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:48.880
big swing that Oliver Stone took as a filmmaker. I mean,
429
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:51.880
he was always a fairly gonzo kind of guy, and
430
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.119
the story of the young conqueror who basically ruled the
431
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.359
world at some stage that feels like great material for him.
432
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.559
It's too sprawling, it's too unwieldy, and as much as
433
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.440
like Colin Farrell, he's not right for the lead. It's
434
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.359
one that I will revisit every few years or so,
435
00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:11.279
just hoping that this time I'll connect with it. I
436
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.880
never really do, so Olives Stones Alexander is not it
437
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.720
three hundred. Perhaps this came out a couple of years later,
438
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.839
and this is kind of the opposite of Troy in
439
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.400
that it feels very artificial. I mean, it's all sort
440
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:27.559
of green screen and semi animated. But it also seemed
441
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.319
to be an indicator of the way these movies might
442
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.480
be going. It's a strange movie, three hundred directed by
443
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:33.200
Zack Snyder.
444
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:34.680
It puts Zack Snyder on the map.
445
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.279
It certainly did. Yeah, I think you might be right, Lennon.
446
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.319
Maybe just a cartoon and that's it. You don't want
447
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.200
to sort of double up too much with Troy. It's
448
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:45.279
got enough going for it as it is. And because
449
00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:47.599
we are big advocates of physical media here at the
450
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:49.799
Movie Guard, we should give a shout out to our
451
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.400
friends at Arrow Video. They are releasing this on four
452
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:54.480
K in a fairly loaded set. It should be out
453
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.119
sometime in the next couple of months. It's one that
454
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.759
I'm looking forward to. I think I will probably lay
455
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.799
down my heart earned money to get a copy.
456
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.000
Of Troy now, Leonard, we are reviewing Troy, of course,
457
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:06.440
because Chris Van Nolan has The Odyssey coming out. I
458
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.839
mentioned at the start of this podcast. Are you excited
459
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:09.480
for the Odyssey?
460
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:11.839
I am looking forward to the Odyssey. I'm not a
461
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.359
fan of Christopher Nolan's work, and I say that, you know,
462
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.480
not gleefully, but reluctantly, because he has such ambition, and
463
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:23.640
he has the energy and the talent to fulfill his ideas,
464
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.720
no matter how grandiose. I wish he had a sense
465
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.640
of humor. Nobody's perfect right, But I am really curious
466
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:32.680
to see what he has done. Now. I've never I
467
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.160
have to congress. I never read Homer. I never read
468
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:38.759
the Iliad or the Odyssey. I have made my way
469
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:42.839
through life with that handicap or that caveat in my CV.
470
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.000
But there it is. I've said it, so I have
471
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.000
nothing to compare it to. I have nothing to measure
472
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.400
it against as the yardstick for adaptation. But I just
473
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:53.680
hope it's a good movie. Len.
474
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.920
I think we can forgive you for that. Despite the
475
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.319
fame and the grand reputation. I think you can throw
476
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.680
a stone in any crowd and not hit anyone who
477
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.200
had read the Odyssey. I don't recommend throwing stones and crowns.
478
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.039
By the way, if you want to read a good
479
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:11.160
book called Homer's Odyssey, may I recommend Homer's Odyssey A
480
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.920
guide to the Simpsons, written by one Brendan Dander, available
481
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:15.200
where good books are sold.
482
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:17.799
Indeed, indeed, yes. But thank you guys. I hope you
483
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:21.359
enjoyed our review of Troy. Don't forget to rate and
484
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.240
review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Wherever you are listening
485
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.400
to this show, check us five stars and live us
486
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.079
a few kind words. We'd much appreciate it, And if
487
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.960
you want to support the show, the best way to
488
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.559
do so is by joining up on Patreon for as
489
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.920
little as just two dollars per month. You can support
490
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:36.200
the show on there the links that is in the
491
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.400
description of this podcast, and keep sending your questions through
492
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.480
It's the Movie Guide podcast at gmail dot com. We'll
493
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:44.480
gather all those up and we'll answer those in the
494
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.359
next episode of the Movie Guide mail Bag. But for now,
495
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:48.079
I am Dando.
496
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.599
Thank you guy, Immortality Brothers, it's ours take it.
497
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:54.519
Thank you the Leonard Molton, ha you and any lay
498
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:56.880
and we'll catch you all in the next episode of
499
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:58.720
The Movie Guide with Malton and Davis.
1
00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:15.480
Hey, everybody woud to the Movie Guide. I am Brendandana
2
00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.519
of the four Finger Discount Network, joined right now by
3
00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:22.760
Guy Davis. Hello, they're Dan and the reviewers of all reviewers.
4
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.600
He is the graand Pooba he is Leonard Moulton. How
5
00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:26.800
are you so, Pooh?
6
00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:31.000
And bars are you sir? Thanks to the welcome.
7
00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:34.520
One might say the Achilles of film criticism, the legendary
8
00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:38.240
warrior of film crism. What a silky segue, because today
9
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.840
we're going to be talking about sword and Sandal epics.
10
00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:43.520
Why are we doing that? Well, we are recording this
11
00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:47.280
just prior to the release of Christopher Nolan's new epic,
12
00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:49.039
The Odyssey. It's going to be out or so in
13
00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:52.280
about a week the time recording this. But I think
14
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.320
they have had the world premiere, they have had critics
15
00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.079
and influences along to check it out. The word is
16
00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:02.679
uniformly positive at this stage. And look, I'm not one
17
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:04.879
to make predictions, but I'm guessing by the time you
18
00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:08.519
hear this podcast, it will have made three billion dollars preemptively,
19
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.680
been awarded ten Oscars, and also won the World Cup,
20
00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:13.680
which is, you know, something of the moves don't normally
21
00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:16.280
do so, yeah, props to the Odyssey, well done. But
22
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:19.599
let's go back in time. Not back to eleven eighty
23
00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.560
four BC, the time at which the movie Troy takes places,
24
00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:24.120
which we're going to be talking about today, but we'll
25
00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:27.400
go back two decades or so when the movies rediscover
26
00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:30.239
the love of the Sword and Sandal epic. Ever since
27
00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.400
the beginnings of Hollywood, sort of historical epics have been
28
00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:35.840
I won't say the bread and butter of Hollywood, but
29
00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:39.120
they tend to re emerge every few decades or so.
30
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:43.760
New technology, new processes, everything like that, and yeah, Hollywood's like, well,
31
00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.799
let's remake ben Hur. They tend to do that.
32
00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:50.680
Well, nothing succeeds like success. And when one of those
33
00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:55.239
films scores at the box office, scores with awards, scores
34
00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:58.120
with audiences, you can bout there more coming.
35
00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.319
Very much the case, Leonard, And in this cat the
36
00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.239
turn of the century. In the year two thousand, we
37
00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:06.239
had Gladiator, directed by Ridley Scott. This was a massive
38
00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:09.879
critical and commercial success, won the Best Picture, Oscar, won
39
00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:12.840
the Best Actor Oscar for Russell Crowe as well. In
40
00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:15.840
the wake of that success, studios went back to the classics.
41
00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.000
They were looking at the reign of Alexander the Great.
42
00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:20.240
They were looking at the Crusades, and they were looking
43
00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.479
at Homer's Iliad and Odyssey. They wanted to recapture that
44
00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:26.560
great sense of spectacle and scale, and this time augmented
45
00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:29.599
by massive budgets, movie stars, and state of the art
46
00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:32.919
special effects. One of these was Troy in two thousand
47
00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:36.719
and four. Is the thing that this was eventually directed
48
00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:38.960
by Wolfgang Peterson, who's got a list of credits as
49
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:40.439
long as your arm. When we will talk about those.
50
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.639
But before he was handled the director's chair, it was
51
00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.240
offered to one Christopher Nolan. He'd made his not his debut,
52
00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:49.360
but he'd sort of made his breakout from with Memento.
53
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:51.759
He'd shown that he'd work within the studio system with
54
00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:55.199
his remake of Insomnia, and Warner Brothers said, we can
55
00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:58.159
maybe trust this guy with something a little bigger. Instead,
56
00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.439
the director's chair went to Wolfgang Peterson and Nolan was
57
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:05.919
given the consolation prize of directing Batman Begins. But yeah,
58
00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.199
Troy is what we're talking about today. This is a
59
00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.240
retelling of the Trojan War.
60
00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:14.400
Essentially, it could be called Achilles, because that would still
61
00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.039
give a very pet the title role, which is a
62
00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.680
necessity because he is the focal point of the film.
63
00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:25.120
Everything sort of revolves around him. Though, there's a fascinating
64
00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:29.199
cast of characters, real life characters from you know, Greek
65
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:33.800
mythology and history. I'd forgotten just how strong a cast
66
00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:38.319
it is until I revisited it last night, all the
67
00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.599
way down the line. I mean Orlando Bloom, Sean Bean,
68
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.319
the Great Brian Cox, the Great Peter O'Toole, Eric Bonna
69
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:53.479
in a one scene role, Julie Christie, Yes, the late
70
00:03:53.560 --> 00:04:01.360
Great Peter O'Toole, and Brendan Gleeson week links in that chain.
71
00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:06.479
Yeah, just a wonderful cast of up and comers, veterans, legends,
72
00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.879
and even in as you think, in like one scene
73
00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.479
roles or just in bit parts or character parts, you know,
74
00:04:12.520 --> 00:04:16.319
in supporting roles, just faces and that you'll recognize faces
75
00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:18.360
and voices that you'll recognize. I mean, they clearly went
76
00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:20.920
all out. They didn't didn't just throw a bunch of
77
00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:22.759
money at Brad Pitton then said, oh, we'll get a
78
00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.560
bunch of no names to round out the cast. No,
79
00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.920
they really stack this, and I think that's evident across
80
00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:31.199
the board. With Troy I mean it's just a quality
81
00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:33.879
production from sort of go to woe. I mean this
82
00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:36.000
is a big budget movie. I mean this is constantly
83
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.279
two hundred million dollars back in nearly two thousands, when
84
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:39.920
two hundred dollars actually meant something.
85
00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.000
You see where the money went, you really do. It's
86
00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.279
the scale of production. It's talked about the word epic.
87
00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:48.480
If you look up epic in the dictionary, it may
88
00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:52.439
well be a freeze frame of Troy. The thousand ships
89
00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:57.560
that Helen metaphorically launches are all there. You can tell them.
90
00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:03.959
Greek army fills onto the shores of Cecily. Is majestic
91
00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.800
and its skulle, it really is, and it gives all
92
00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.480
his actors something to play with, some meat to chew on,
93
00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:16.360
and irradiant maybe that's the wrong word, but irradiant and incredible.
94
00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:20.279
Leading man Brad Pitt is the living definition of a
95
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:24.240
movie star, right, and you want a movie star to
96
00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:29.120
play this part the unconquerable or seemingly unconquerable warriors, the
97
00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:34.240
greatest warrior of this time, and to borrow words from
98
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.680
the language an Adonis as well.
99
00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.040
Very much so. Pits In's in maximum movie star mode here.
100
00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.240
I mean, he's in fantastic shape, and of course showing
101
00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.120
it off he gets some real trailer worthy lines. He
102
00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:48.240
wins pretty much every fight that he's in, and he
103
00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:52.240
acts honorably but also ruthlessly, so he gets a bit
104
00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:55.600
of a full rounded character here. As we know, viewers
105
00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:57.720
and listeners of the movie guide are of course history
106
00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:00.160
buffs and know everything about the Trojan War, but that
107
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.000
one point one percent that isn't a brief rundown of
108
00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:06.879
what Troy is actually about. It is eleven eighty four BC,
109
00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:10.920
and the brutal Agamemnon has conquered many of the kingdoms
110
00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.399
of Greece. There's one of these long coveted and that's
111
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.519
the Kingdom of Troy, but that's resisted. It's a nation
112
00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.759
or a kingdom of fighters, very very proud, very capable
113
00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.879
when it comes to battle. But when Trojan Prince Paris
114
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:25.800
falls in love with Helen, who is the wife of
115
00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.839
Agamemnon's brother Menelaus, sparks a war that is driven equally
116
00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.240
by lust for revenge and desire for power, the hardy conflict.
117
00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:35.800
You have two great soldiers. You've got the noble Trojan
118
00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:38.279
Prince Hector played by Eric banner, and you've got the
119
00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:42.000
legendary warrior Achilles, who fights for the Greeks but mainly
120
00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:45.720
for his own glory. Yeah, now that's pit As Achilles.
121
00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.040
And here's the thing about Troy. It's got a sort
122
00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:50.879
of a mixed reputation. I think a lot of people
123
00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:54.240
sort of view it as very blustery, kind of melodramatic,
124
00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.079
not exactly subtle, but I think that's part of the
125
00:06:57.079 --> 00:06:58.800
course when it comes to what we call the sword
126
00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:01.839
and sandal genre, right, I mean, it's usually.
127
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.160
I don't think you turned to this kind of movie
128
00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:03.800
for subtlety.
129
00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.399
You don't really do it. It's usually capital letters and
130
00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:07.839
primary colors, am I right.
131
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:11.040
Yeah, yeah, it's true. But that doesn't mean that it's
132
00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:16.120
over baked or overwrite. Perhaps this is the word we're there. Yeah,
133
00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.360
I don't find it. So I think that the characters
134
00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.920
are very compelling, And what impressed me the most about
135
00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:26.279
the screenplay by David Benioff is that he takes these
136
00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:30.959
huge chunks of history and makes them personal, if not intimate. Personal.
137
00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.720
You can follow what is happening because you're following the
138
00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:40.000
characters and the choices the characters make, and the circumstances
139
00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:41.240
that are heaped upon them.
140
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.240
Yeah, there's real humanity in these dare I say it?
141
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.560
Lend iconic characters, these historical characters. I mean he finds
142
00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.560
the humanity, the motivations in all of them, and yeah,
143
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:53.399
it works as a result. I mean Benioff, he was
144
00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.439
making a name for himself as a novelist and a
145
00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.360
screenwriter when he was commissioned to write the Troy screenplay.
146
00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:00.759
He's probably best known for writing the novel that Spike
147
00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.040
Lee's twenty fifth Hour is based on, but of course,
148
00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:05.360
these days he's best known for co creating Game of Thrones.
149
00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:06.800
I really like what he does here.
150
00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:09.240
I mean, you know, the Trojan War and the events
151
00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.560
of the Iliad, and you know partially the Odyssey, and
152
00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:15.319
they're fairly sprawling, and he condenses them down into a
153
00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.800
relatively streamlined two hours plus, maybe three hours plus if
154
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:21.079
you're watching the director's cut a narrative in that way,
155
00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.439
I think he does a really pretty good job with it.
156
00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:27.240
I do it too. He was handsomely paid for his work.
157
00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.360
I read online he cashed a check for two and
158
00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:34.720
a half million dollars. Must be nice, not screenplay. I
159
00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.559
would have done it for half.
160
00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:43.039
The words on the street Now, Lenon Bolton will work cheap, yeah,
161
00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.240
but an epic movie, but yeah, with a sort of
162
00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:48.120
a core of humanity to it. And I think that's
163
00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:50.159
evident really in the performance is that we said, I mean,
164
00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.559
this has got a fantastic cast of movie stars, of
165
00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:53.960
movie stars on the rise.
166
00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:56.759
And of course one of the obligations of the movie
167
00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:01.000
is that you have to now reveal how of Troy
168
00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:03.519
who is going to be helen of Troy? And I
169
00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:06.879
remember seeing the movie when it was new at screaming
170
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.960
at Warner Brothers, I recall correctly, and getting my first
171
00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:15.960
look at beautiful Diane Krueger, who is indeed a beautiful woman,
172
00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.679
an unknown at the time, an unknown face to almost
173
00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.360
all of us. I dare, sir, And she's a knockout.
174
00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:23.000
She really.
175
00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:24.759
It's kind of a thankless role, but I think she
176
00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:26.759
does some pretty good stuff with it.
177
00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:27.639
Yeah.
178
00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:29.799
Yeah, I mean it's a very kind of reactive part.
179
00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:31.639
But no, I think she does good work within it.
180
00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:33.679
And it's almost a bit of a poison chalice for
181
00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:36.039
an actor, because well, you know, once you play the
182
00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:38.759
most beautiful woman in history, what do you go? Where
183
00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:40.519
do you go? From there or you know, how do
184
00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:42.799
you prove that you're capable of something more than that?
185
00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.200
I remember seeing her a few years later in Tarantino's
186
00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.279
in Glorious Bastards, in which he gives a really good performance. Yeah,
187
00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:51.080
and she's done a lot of great work in Hollywood
188
00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.360
and European productions since. Yeah, it was a great It
189
00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.039
was a great launching pad for her. There's a great
190
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.159
launching pad for a lot of people, though, you know,
191
00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:58.679
being Australian. And by the way, there's a lot of
192
00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.240
Australian representation movie. And when I say a lot, I
193
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:04.000
mean three. But you know, you've got Eric Banner as
194
00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:06.639
one of the co leads. You have, let's say, all
195
00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:12.159
Australian behemoth, Nathan Jones as the Titanic warrior who was
196
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.200
bested by Brad Pitt in the opening sequence. Viewers may
197
00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.360
remember him from Mad Max Fury Road. But you also
198
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:21.879
have Rose Burn. Now this is maybe her breakthrough Hollywood
199
00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:26.000
performance or Hollywood breakthrough, breakthrough Hollywood role. She'd of course
200
00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:27.960
worked in Australia a little bit before it. And I
201
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.919
remember thinking, you're quite adorable, but I'm not sure how
202
00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:33.039
much you've got in your Toolkit, and she's very very
203
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.519
good in this. It made me reappraise her, and of
204
00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.799
course everything she has done since has made me reappraise
205
00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:40.000
her even more. She's a fantastic actor, and yeah, I
206
00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.279
think she does such good work here as this young
207
00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:45.080
noble woman who is well, shall we say, brutalized and
208
00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.759
victimized by the invading Greeks. But Achilles sort of has
209
00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:49.039
a bit of a soft spot for her, and she
210
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.879
wins his heart and cools his fearsome temper. She's really
211
00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:53.480
good in it. I like Roseburn a lot in this.
212
00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:56.720
I like her and almost everything except the film that's
213
00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:57.879
got her an ask for nomination.
214
00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.399
If I had legs like Kick You, Yeah, I.
215
00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:03.759
Despise that movie. I don't mind saying.
216
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:06.000
Oh my god, we'll talk about that on a future episode.
217
00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.080
But I like her a lot, and she shows all
218
00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:12.600
the promise you just mentioned there.
219
00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:14.759
I want to talk about Eric Banner a bit. He's
220
00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:18.440
an actor who I find really interesting. Again, Australian audiences
221
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.919
knew him mostly as a comedian, as a sketch comedian.
222
00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.159
He was on i want to say, an Australian version
223
00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:25.159
of Saturday Night Live, but he sort of made a
224
00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:27.840
name for himself to Australian audiences back in the nineties
225
00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:31.320
playing these various comedic characters on TV. And it wasn't
226
00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:34.000
until the year two thousand and he's performance in the
227
00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:37.200
as the title character in Chopper that everyone start to realize,
228
00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.120
Oh wow, there's yeah, certainly more to this guy.
229
00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.120
Yeah. I think of him as a chameleon. He doesn't
230
00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.799
bring a lot of baggage with him from rule to role,
231
00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:48.960
so I find myself having no trouble believing his performances
232
00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:54.080
and across the landscape of ruis that he's made from
233
00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.600
lighthearted to deadly serious as this one is to me,
234
00:11:57.679 --> 00:11:58.639
he's always credible.
235
00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.080
Yeah, and it was very depend as well. I mean,
236
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.000
Hector is a less flashy role than Achilles. He's kind
237
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:07.799
of a square in all honesty. But I think Banner
238
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:10.600
because he has that dependable quality. He brings real strength
239
00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:12.159
and integrity to it. I was trying to think of
240
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:15.759
a comp for Eric Banner, because you can compare someone
241
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.080
like Pitt to other actors, you know, either back down
242
00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.039
the line or people who want to be like Brad
243
00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.720
Pitt now. And the only person I could really think
244
00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.080
of was like Liam Neeson, you know, someone who's very sturdy,
245
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.480
very capable. They've got star quality. But it's not sort
246
00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:31.759
of radiating off them. It's just you're more sort of
247
00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:33.840
drawn to them. They pull you in, as opposed to
248
00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.399
energy sort of beaming out of them. I don't know
249
00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:37.399
if that makes any sense.
250
00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:39.960
No, it makes It makes a lot of sense. I've
251
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.879
always been a fan of Brian Cox, who has enjoyed
252
00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:47.879
He's been working steadily for decades now, but he's come
253
00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:50.919
to a latter day prominence. I guess he never draped
254
00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.480
on the TV series Succession Correct, where he plays the
255
00:12:55.159 --> 00:13:01.440
well Sinley Veils Rupert Murrach type patriarch and tycoon as
256
00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:03.600
great as he was in that series, and it was
257
00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.600
a terrific series. He's always been a really fine actor,
258
00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:11.799
and Agamemnon is a perfect role for him because he's
259
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:17.440
commanding and sometimes overbearing, but also petty and given to
260
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:22.159
flashes of emotion, unexpected flashes of emotion, and he covers
261
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.799
all that ground and really well.
262
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:27.000
Yeah, it's a really great balancing act, isn't it. Because
263
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.000
he has these moments where he's almost like a pantomime villain.
264
00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:32.840
You know, he's almost like he's twirling a mustache at times,
265
00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.200
but then he'll slide moments of again humanity into it,
266
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.240
I mean villainous humanity, but still I recognize what drives
267
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.960
this guy. I mean, he's supposedly ruling the world, but
268
00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.799
he's frustrated by this warrior who his warrior and Achilles
269
00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:51.399
who has basically granted him that power, who he can't control.
270
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.519
There's this whole range of human emotion in the characters
271
00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.480
of Troy, you know, whether they're noble or self sacrificing,
272
00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.639
or they're petty and and brutal. That's why I think
273
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.679
it works. I mean, this is a word that I
274
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:06.279
use a lot to describe a movie. They're like, it's sturdy,
275
00:14:06.840 --> 00:14:07.639
it holds up.
276
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.440
Yeah.
277
00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:10.960
There's a great double act as well with Cox and
278
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.679
Brendan Gleeson, who's is equally cruel but less wily brother.
279
00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:15.240
They're like this.
280
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:17.679
Wonderful tag team, and you know, Gleason's kind of the
281
00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.399
muscle of it, while Cox is the brains behind it all.
282
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.799
I want to do quickly about Orlando Bloom because again,
283
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.440
he's someone that I find interesting anyone who sort of
284
00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:29.639
gets who cops a bit of flag. I tend to
285
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.360
have a little little time for it. Yeah, I don't.
286
00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.720
I don't think Orlando Bloom is suffering all that much.
287
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.840
From what I understand, He's married to a supermodel, and
288
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:38.320
he's got Lord of the Rings and parts of the
289
00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.320
Caribbean money. Orlando Bloom is doing fine. But I think
290
00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:43.399
a lot of people call him the weak link in
291
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:47.320
this as Paris. I mean, Paris is this playboy prince.
292
00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:49.000
He's a weak character.
293
00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:51.879
He is he is. I mean, Paris is a weak,
294
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.360
shallow character who essentially steals Helen of Troy and kicks
295
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.360
off the whole Trojan War as a result. I don't
296
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.600
necessarily by their romance as a love for the ages, no, no,
297
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.200
but I do commend Bloom for, at the height of
298
00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:12.639
his stardom or his assent, playing a weak, shallow character
299
00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.720
like Paris with such commitment. I mean, this is a
300
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:18.200
character who, in the middle of a fight is really
301
00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:20.840
getting his ass handed to him and scurries away like
302
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.159
a little coward. He runs to him, He runs to
303
00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.639
his big brother and basically grasped onto his leg and says,
304
00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.519
save me, save me. I don't think many young actors
305
00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.399
would do that, So I've got to give him respect
306
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.399
for that, and he's well cast, shall we say.
307
00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:38.519
Yes is? Yes, he is and you believe him? And
308
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.559
Eric Banner has brothers.
309
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:41.200
You do you do?
310
00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:41.519
Yeah?
311
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.320
I like their dynamic together. And look, Bloom may seem
312
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:47.679
out of his depth sharing the screen with Peter O'Toole,
313
00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:49.360
but honestly, who wouldn't.
314
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.919
If you had a cast of film today. Peter o'toles
315
00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.759
has gone to his greater reward. Who is there to
316
00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.639
take his place? That's for anyone.
317
00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.919
Yes, I'm not sure because how old o'tool have been
318
00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.600
at this stage. He would have been in his late seventies,
319
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:05.000
early eighties perhaps.
320
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.039
Yeah, he was still working to the very end of
321
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:08.720
his life.
322
00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:11.960
I'd have to say maybe someone like Ian McKellen perhaps,
323
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:16.120
or Ah or Charles Dance seems to be the go
324
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.080
to for these kind.
325
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.320
Of guys these days. Mm hmm, how there aren't any left.
326
00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.279
That's true. O'tool's marvelous, though his presence and his power
327
00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.440
is sort of underlooted. He's not the declarative young man
328
00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.240
that he was in Lawrence of Arabia that was what
329
00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:35.720
for five decades earlier. But the scenes that he has
330
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:41.200
with with Bloom, with Banner, with Kruger, and particularly with Pitt,
331
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.279
you can sense that Pitt is, if not oded, then
332
00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.399
he respects the majesty of sharing the screen with Peter O'Toole.
333
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.799
Yes, I've never seen him speak on that subject or
334
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.919
address that subject, but I can't imagine that he would
335
00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.159
feel anything other than respect. If not, Ah could be
336
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:04.799
just a case of real life and art blending together.
337
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.440
So the benefit of the movie and the benefit of
338
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:08.319
us and the audience.
339
00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.559
Absolutely, I think we both enjoy this movie. Having said that,
340
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.400
there are people behind the scenes who weren't necessarily that
341
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.119
big a fan of it. O'tall is one of them.
342
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.839
He apparently did not get along with the director Peterson,
343
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.799
by the way, hit himself. He said, look, I was
344
00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:24.880
meant to make another movie for Warner Brothers. I fell
345
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:28.039
out of that one, and I was contractably obliged to
346
00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:29.960
make a movie for them. They put me into Troy.
347
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:33.119
He's not the biggest fan of the movies. He calls
348
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.160
it a commercial kind of thing with no mystery as
349
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.279
his quote, and he says about his own performance, I
350
00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.640
make my own mistakes in it. I can understand where
351
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.119
he's coming from, but again, I think he wants to
352
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.640
give a little more complexity to something like Troy that
353
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.720
it doesn't exactly warrant, so understand why he's coming from.
354
00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.359
I don't want to talk about Peterson, though, because he
355
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.640
makes what could be called dad movies, or what I
356
00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.359
might disrepidly call hangover movies. If you're wed, had one
357
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.240
or two on a Saturday night and you're feeling a
358
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.039
little under the weather on a Sunday, don't want to
359
00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.440
do much at all. You just want to sort of
360
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.519
line the couch and groan, but also have something on
361
00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:12.680
in the background. The movies of Wolfgang Peterson and now,
362
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.839
admittedly he sort of made his name with dust Boot,
363
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.119
one of the great war movies of our time, but
364
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:21.759
if you look at titles like in the Line of Fire, Outbreak,
365
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.319
Air Force One, or The Perfect Storm, its like, yeah,
366
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.359
these are good dad movies, but they're also I don't
367
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:28.440
think too much, but I have to have my brain
368
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.279
on a little bit, I have to be a bit engaged,
369
00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.400
And yeah, I think he did that just about as
370
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.480
well as anybody, and Troy's a really good example of that.
371
00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:39.079
I think. Remember this was made twenty two years ago
372
00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:44.039
and it was still the early phase, the early chapters
373
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.799
of computer generated imagery. Or a CGI as we call
374
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:52.359
it now, And there is a risk of looking mechanical
375
00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.039
at times or artificial at times. When you have these
376
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.160
huge flyover shots of the walls of the city and
377
00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.680
the Trojan horse who shows up of course before the
378
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.359
end of the story, and these vast, vast armies of
379
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:13.440
soldiers I do mean vast, you risk them looking slightly unreal.
380
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:15.759
I think this film makes them look real.
381
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.279
It does are right that thousand ships that we talk about, you,
382
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.720
they look pretty authentic. I think this does the great
383
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.119
thing that a lot of those early two thousands movies
384
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.480
do in terms of they can bind computer generated effects
385
00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:29.039
with a lot of live act and a lot of
386
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:31.519
practical stuff. I mean this, you can sort of feel
387
00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.279
the sand on the skin and the dirt under the
388
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:35.279
fingernails in a lot of situations here.
389
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:38.960
Yes, now a film makes you feel aloof you're drawn
390
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:43.240
into what's going on. And Peterson has an ability to
391
00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:47.680
intercut close up action. I'm talking about using fists and
392
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:53.119
shields and armor and spears and arrows and god knows
393
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:57.920
what else with wider shots and even wider shots. But
394
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:03.319
because they're intercuts so expertly, they're very forceful, very forceful.
395
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:14.440
Got very tactile quality Troy double feature, Leonard.
396
00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.680
Double feature, one cartoon, and a couple of trailers. That's
397
00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:18.839
all youah, correct sir.
398
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.240
We doubt anyone has the time and or stamina to
399
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:25.880
go another three hours after maybe watching the three hour
400
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.119
director's cut of Troy. But this was a really interesting
401
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:32.160
time post Gladiator in Hollywood. We had a handful of
402
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.160
sword and Sandal epics that came out. Ridley Scott's Kingdom
403
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:37.240
of Heaven, which I think met with a fairly mixed
404
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.440
response serious theatrical run, but its reputation has been very
405
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.720
much enhanced by the director's cut that was released on
406
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:45.519
home video, added about another hour or so.
407
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:48.440
That's like a four hour exercise, right.
408
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.960
It is, But it's it's worth it. I mean, it's
409
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.880
I think been appraised as one of Ridley Scott's best works.
410
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:55.960
That's what I hear.
411
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.680
Yeah, and again Orlando Bloom in the lead possible weekly
412
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:01.759
But again I think he does what's askedive and I
413
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.599
think he does it pretty well. But he is surrounded
414
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.880
by an array of fantastic talent in that movie. Here's
415
00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.599
one that you might enjoy, Alexander by Oliver Stone, when
416
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.279
we were discussing talking about Troy. I think you were
417
00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.240
thinking that we might talk about Alexander, and you were
418
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:18.400
quick to kai Bosch that idea.
419
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:23.359
I gave Alexander a try when Oliver Stone sent a
420
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.279
letter to all the members of the LA Film Critics
421
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:31.039
Organization saying that he had recited and re edited and
422
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:34.839
begged our indulgence to give it one more try. So
423
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.400
I did to No avail.
424
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.400
Still didn't work. Yeah, there are I think maybe three
425
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:42.880
or four different cuts of Alexander going around.
426
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:43.720
Yeah.
427
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.319
I admire it because it feels like the last great
428
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:48.880
big swing that Oliver Stone took as a filmmaker. I mean,
429
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:51.880
he was always a fairly gonzo kind of guy, and
430
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.119
the story of the young conqueror who basically ruled the
431
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.359
world at some stage that feels like great material for him.
432
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.559
It's too sprawling, it's too unwieldy, and as much as
433
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.440
like Colin Farrell, he's not right for the lead. It's
434
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.359
one that I will revisit every few years or so,
435
00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:11.279
just hoping that this time I'll connect with it. I
436
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.880
never really do, so Olives Stones Alexander is not it
437
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.720
three hundred. Perhaps this came out a couple of years later,
438
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.839
and this is kind of the opposite of Troy in
439
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.400
that it feels very artificial. I mean, it's all sort
440
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:27.559
of green screen and semi animated. But it also seemed
441
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.319
to be an indicator of the way these movies might
442
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.480
be going. It's a strange movie, three hundred directed by
443
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:33.200
Zack Snyder.
444
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:34.680
It puts Zack Snyder on the map.
445
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.279
It certainly did. Yeah, I think you might be right, Lennon.
446
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.319
Maybe just a cartoon and that's it. You don't want
447
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.200
to sort of double up too much with Troy. It's
448
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:45.279
got enough going for it as it is. And because
449
00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:47.599
we are big advocates of physical media here at the
450
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:49.799
Movie Guard, we should give a shout out to our
451
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.400
friends at Arrow Video. They are releasing this on four
452
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:54.480
K in a fairly loaded set. It should be out
453
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.119
sometime in the next couple of months. It's one that
454
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.759
I'm looking forward to. I think I will probably lay
455
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.799
down my heart earned money to get a copy.
456
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:04.000
Of Troy now, Leonard, we are reviewing Troy, of course,
457
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:06.440
because Chris Van Nolan has The Odyssey coming out. I
458
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.839
mentioned at the start of this podcast. Are you excited
459
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:09.480
for the Odyssey?
460
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:11.839
I am looking forward to the Odyssey. I'm not a
461
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.359
fan of Christopher Nolan's work, and I say that, you know,
462
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.480
not gleefully, but reluctantly, because he has such ambition, and
463
00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:23.640
he has the energy and the talent to fulfill his ideas,
464
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.720
no matter how grandiose. I wish he had a sense
465
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.640
of humor. Nobody's perfect right, But I am really curious
466
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:32.680
to see what he has done. Now. I've never I
467
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.160
have to congress. I never read Homer. I never read
468
00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:38.759
the Iliad or the Odyssey. I have made my way
469
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:42.839
through life with that handicap or that caveat in my CV.
470
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.000
But there it is. I've said it, so I have
471
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.000
nothing to compare it to. I have nothing to measure
472
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.400
it against as the yardstick for adaptation. But I just
473
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:53.680
hope it's a good movie. Len.
474
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.920
I think we can forgive you for that. Despite the
475
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.319
fame and the grand reputation. I think you can throw
476
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.680
a stone in any crowd and not hit anyone who
477
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.200
had read the Odyssey. I don't recommend throwing stones and crowns.
478
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.039
By the way, if you want to read a good
479
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:11.160
book called Homer's Odyssey, may I recommend Homer's Odyssey A
480
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.920
guide to the Simpsons, written by one Brendan Dander, available
481
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:15.200
where good books are sold.
482
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:17.799
Indeed, indeed, yes. But thank you guys. I hope you
483
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:21.359
enjoyed our review of Troy. Don't forget to rate and
484
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.240
review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Wherever you are listening
485
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.400
to this show, check us five stars and live us
486
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.079
a few kind words. We'd much appreciate it, And if
487
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.960
you want to support the show, the best way to
488
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.559
do so is by joining up on Patreon for as
489
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:34.920
little as just two dollars per month. You can support
490
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:36.200
the show on there the links that is in the
491
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.400
description of this podcast, and keep sending your questions through
492
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:42.480
It's the Movie Guide podcast at gmail dot com. We'll
493
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:44.480
gather all those up and we'll answer those in the
494
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:47.359
next episode of the Movie Guide mail Bag. But for now,
495
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:48.079
I am Dando.
496
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.599
Thank you guy, Immortality Brothers, it's ours take it.
497
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:54.519
Thank you the Leonard Molton, ha you and any lay
498
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:56.880
and we'll catch you all in the next episode of
499
00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:58.720
The Movie Guide with Malton and Davis.