Host Emma Craven: good afternoon, ⁓ good morning, good evening to our listeners. Welcome to the ADHD Project with me, host Emma Craven. ⁓ And today I am joined by Jean. So Jean, would you to give us a little bit of an introduction to you, please?
Jean Ramsey: I've been delighted, Emma, and thank you very much for inviting me on your podcast. So my name is Jean Ramsey. I'm a woman of a certain age. I was a teacher for 35 years and I discovered coaching very early on. I did my first training with the Coaching Academy in 2004 and I immediately saw that this could have a huge impact using the coach approach.
Host Emma Craven: pleasure.
Jean Ramsey: on my teaching in school, on my relationships, on being a mum. It has been a life-changing adventure learning how to use the coach approach. And when I retired, I began, well, I started my business when I was still teaching, coachingforschools.com. And I just want to support people, neurodivergent families on this journey because it,
Host Emma Craven: is
Jean Ramsey: I like sailing, there are lot of choppy waters to navigate. And if you are raising neurodivergent or neuro-spicy, whatever you want to call them, highly sensitive young people, it's much harder work. It's much harder work. And it has a huge toll on mums especially, because they carry it all. And that's what led me to develop my group coaching program to support mums. But especially, I was very interested in grandparents because they have such a huge part to play. Because so many grandparents, myself included, we've just got a new granddaughter, are being asked to help with childcare. And if you don't understand what neurodiversity is and you come at it with neurotypical parenting techniques, like don't let them get away with that. you're making a rod for your own back, et cetera, et cetera, you're just gonna make a difficult situation even more fraught with anxiety and judgment. For the parents are your children, aren't they? If you're the grandparent and you're telling them that they're rubbish parents with the eye rolling and the tutting. So that's my mission to help people to understand. So I like to... talk about going from awareness about what it is and the journey takes a long time sometimes, but to acceptance. And sometimes we have to grieve for the child that we don't have, the one we had in our imagination. And then the final step is to take action and work together as a team. So that's kind of where I'm coming from. Advocating the coach approach in all things. to make everybody feel better about themselves.
Host Emma Craven: Wow. mean, yeah, I can't even think of anything to cut just amazing work like it's worthwhile work as well if that makes sense because it's obviously much needed and it's actually quite a niche that I'd not thought about until we've just talked about it, you know, particularly for grandparents. yeah, so. Would you like to talk a little bit about your diagnosis journey? ⁓ If you don't mind.
Jean Ramsey: I don't mind and I don't like to call it a diagnosis because I'm not very much. I was assessed by our own daughter. She's the one who's the A &E nurse and her partner was assessed by his sister who is a Senco and he did pay to have his assessment privately. And when he had his done, he thought, hang on a minute, Emma does this, Emma does that. So he started leaving books about for Emma to read. And then I don't know if Emma paid for her assessment price. She may well have done actually. Or the NHS might have paid for her to have it. But it was eye opening. And then when she got her assessment result, she said, and you know, you've got it too, don't you, mum? And I thought, how very dare you? Of course I haven't. How have I reached this age? And then I started to do the research. ⁓ my god, yes! I remember spending hours and hours designing an all-singing, all-dancing, colour-coordinated revision timetable for my A-levels and my mum pointed out, Jean, you've spent more time designing the revision timetable than you've actually spent on doing any revision! And I thought, hmm, well that's because revision's boring, isn't it? Well, the way I was taught to revise at first. So all these things began to make sense, like, I was nearly late for my graduation ceremony because I misread the invitation. ⁓ I thought I'd lost my passport and my husband found it on my printer, you because I'd had to send a photocopy somewhere. So I haven't got an official assessment, but ⁓ my goodness me, I tick the boxes. And that's really helped me to understand where I come from and why I had such an affinity with the challenging young people in school. I got them and they got me and I would let them do things. ⁓ I remember teaching an English lesson and I was talking about, know, suicide means death of yourself, matricide means killing your mother, patricide means killing your father and without missing a beat a boy at the back shouted out and pesticide means killing your sister. And I thought that's genius, absolute genius. He'd followed the rule. Whereas another colleague might have told him off for shouting out. I thought, no, how clever, how clever. Yeah. So I just, I just love mixing with the tribe now that I know I belong.
Host Emma Craven: So how, mean teaching for 35 years, wow, what did you just teach English or did you teach anything else?
Jean Ramsey: No, I started off teaching English ⁓ and I've worked at the same school all my career, which is very unusual. So I started off in the English department and I taught English for a good 20 years, I guess. But ⁓ my God, the English literature, you have to study. this GCSE anthology and it's the same poetry, it's the same short stories. I thought, if I have to teach your shoes one more time, I'm going to stick pins in my eyes. And now I know that's because of my ADHD and I was bored. So I used to watch in the, well, we used to have a staff room. That's a thing that's gone by the wayside indeed. They're going to bring it back. Thank goodness. I used to look at the creative arts department. I they're always having a laugh. And they call themselves the Creative Farts Department.
Host Emma Craven: How do I join in?
Jean Ramsey: And I was given a test. They always did a Christmas concert and they wanted to put on a mumma's play. So the head of music said, Jean, would you like to direct it? I ⁓ yes, I'd love to. So we did that and it was a big success. I didn't know that was my test. And then the chap who was head of drama, he wanted to go back to be a pastoral lead. And in those days, you weren't allowed to have two significant roles. So in his letter of application to go back to being head of year seven, he said, I would like Jean Ramsey to be head of drama. People don't write letters like that anymore. So that was my in to the creative farts department. I found my home.
Host Emma Craven: I can tell by the look on your face that you know, you know, your face is lit up now you're starting to talk about the drama. Yeah.
Jean Ramsey: because everybody can excel at that if they want to. I used to think about drama as there's the people who really good at it and the people who really hate it. And I would think about them because in the school, I'm not sure if they still do it now, but everybody did all of the creative arts up until the end of year nine. So everybody did drama once a week, whether they liked it or not. But by the time I'd finished with them. most of them really liked it. So in my mind I saw the kids who really got it and the kids who didn't really get it and I'd think of them as my drama for therapy group, you know. And I'd say things like, you're going to be asked to make a best man's speech or you're going to want to stand up for yourself and ask for a pay rise. These are life skills I'm teaching you here, girls and boys. So I, yeah, I just loved it. I just loved it. And I was in charge of
Host Emma Craven: Yeah.
Jean Ramsey: whole school productions and it would bring the whole school together. The art department would help design the props. Well, that'd be technology actually. We'd paint the set in the February half term. it's just such a life enhancing thing. And I'm so sad that people don't see the value of creative arts and how much money they bring to the economy. That's a different rabbit hole.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, I would have liked to have been taught by you. It sounds fascinating. I'm probably like a drama no-no person, but I'm sure I could get into it if I, you know, just kind of had the opportunity to. But also, yeah, I would have loved to have, because I do think, you know, as neurodivergent people, we do, we are very creative. And obviously, you know, we have to find that one thing that gives us the fire in the belly. Yeah. And that's it.
Jean Ramsey: Even the autistic young people. I remember one boy in particular, he used to always keep his pen between him and the world. And he hated improvisation. He'd say, Mrs. Ramsey, they're being very noisy. And I'd say, yeah, but if you listen, come with me and listen to each group. Well, he said, well, they are talking about the work, aren't they? said, yes, they are. They're working, but it is quite noisy. And I'm sorry that you don't like that. So I think, I'll tell you what though, I've got a job. I've got all these exam papers that need to be sorted out. I could do that for you. But then in the next half term, we would do reading off a script and we'd be in a big circle and people would say, I want to be such and such. And this boy in particular, he could read immaculately, immaculately straight off a script, do all the accents. And that gave the rest of class the insight that actually he may not be good at improvisation, but my God, is he good at reading off a script and doing the accents.
Host Emma Craven: That's beautiful. Because you're playing to their strengths, aren't you? So you're playing to the students' strengths, which is, yeah, it's not something that...
Jean Ramsey: I didn't make him join a group for the improvisation because I knew he wasn't comfortable. And my god, my exam papers have never been so immaculately filed ever.
Host Emma Craven: can imagine. I love that. Yeah. And just think of all them amazing all of the students that you made a significant difference to like just that one. It's not a simple act is it but you just you know you you enabled the young boy to kind of play to his strengths and do things that he can do and enjoyed doing. Like I hate reading off a script. just, I just can't, it's like my brain can't cope with it, but I know that lots of other people do like it. And I just think that's what a wonderful experience. You've imprinted on all of them children's lives. You know, it's just.
Jean Ramsey: I could share one other thing, which no, I'm going to. So there's a pub in the town, a Wetherspoons pub, it's where people hang out on Christmas Eve. So I love to go in there on Christmas Eve because lots of my ex-students are in there. And this one boy in particular, he came up to me and he said, is this your husband, Mrs. Rousey? said, this is indeed. He said, I want to shake your hands, Mr. Ramsey. I want you to know that your wife kept me out of prison.
Host Emma Craven: Okay.
Jean Ramsey: How cool is that?
Host Emma Craven: It's just...
Jean Ramsey: He was very autistic. He was very autistic. He wouldn't make eye contact with me at all when we started. I didn't teach him drama. This was ⁓ when I was working as a coach in school, because they kept me on to work as a coach. ⁓ Sadly, I've been let go because of cutbacks, but that's their mistake. It certainly is. I would never be out pushing myself out here.
Host Emma Craven: Bye!
Jean Ramsey: if that hadn't happened. So it's a gift and an opportunity, sorry, Emma.
Host Emma Craven: He Yeah, I mean imagine that that that just keeping a young person out of prison is just Yeah, because I mean, I often will think back to my school. I never really liked school. It was boring. I was the daydreamer sitting at the back of the classroom, you know, looking out of the window thinking I desperately want this person to stop talking because this is boring. Just, you know, sitting still for as long as we had to. I liked Home economics, because I like cooking. Yeah, exactly. I like that.
Jean Ramsey: up on your feet? That's what my mum taught.
Host Emma Craven: Oh, homey, yeah, I used to really enjoy that. But everything else was just, I hated doing PE. I had a period every week, so I couldn't do PE. I didn't really. But it was, you know, it's one of them things. Or I just, oh, I'm sorry, I can't do it today. I forgot to bring my PE kit. And then they started making me get something out of that. This is a tangent. Yeah, this is a complete tangent. But. It's like, you know, then they made me wear something out of the lost puppet. And I was like, yeah, I'm bringing the P.E. in. I'm not wearing anyone else's. And we were we were we were really poor when I was at school as well. And that was clear for the other kids to see. And so it wasn't kind of I just didn't like school. got bullied so badly.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: so badly that I ate soap to make myself sick so I wouldn't have to go to school and I just yeah so it just wasn't a pleasant experience for me school at all um but it kind of gave me some strength um you know would it have changed anything if I'd have been diagnosed sooner um or assessed as you like to say sooner I doubt it at all I don't I don't think it it would have done within my learning um or anything but I think it would have given me you know self-confidence self-esteem self-worth that's probably what a new an earlier um diagnosis would have given me but that's not my journey is it so I try not to dwell on that at all but yeah and I think kind of fast forward to being an adult. I was diagnosed at 43 in 2019. I'd tried and failed and tried and achieved lots and lots of different courses. And then now I'm studying psychology online, like 100 % online. Good for you. But it's weird because it makes me go a little bit goose pimply because I'm not good at kind of blowing my own trumpet if that makes sense. Like I really struggled to be kind of ⁓ proud of my achievements but you know I watched my daughter go through a midwifery degree and she was exhausted as I'm sure you saw for your daughter as well. You know working in A &E is probably yeah manic. But I saw her and then I COVID hit and it was like a year or so after COVID and I thought I wanted to do a psychology, either a GCSE or an A level when my friend got me to talk to me out of that because she said you're already too far ahead because I've counselling studies and stuff. I've done a lot of stuff, but I just didn't always achieve great things within it because I just I couldn't because I didn't know I had ADHD. So anyway, studying online and knowing about my ADHD, also kind of for the last couple of years, focusing on like my strengths rather than.
Jean Ramsey: Wonderful coach approach my dear.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, yes, I did have some coaching. was very grateful for that. Yeah. So yeah, it is a coach. So I love the fact that you've kind of worked. Sorry, that was a complete tangent, but I mean, I'm coming down to I'm coming back to a point now. So apologies. So yeah, I love the fact that you're doing the coach approach still because I think even within my university, we've got success coaches. And the value that they bring to the students is huge. They look at different kind of ⁓ approaches to study in, they look at confidence, they look at, you know, effective time management for any student. And I think, you know, as an ADHD student, I think definitely like it is enabled me to find confidence within my academic
Jean Ramsey: Yeah Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: writing quicker if that makes sense.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, it does make sense. I did my masters at Oxford, but only because I wanted to prove
Host Emma Craven: You are Oxford University. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm talking to I'm talking to am I talking to a professor or a doctor?
Jean Ramsey: don't know. Just a master's, just a master's. That's as far as I go. But I wanted to prove to myself that I'm not stupid. And Emma did her nursing degree with Brooks in Oxford. And the same thing, wonderful support to help her with her academic writing and time management and all those other things. So you've just taken the scenic route, that's all. Yeah, and nothing's wasted, Emma, nothing is wasted.
Host Emma Craven: Yes. And I know that and I like I don't like the fact that you've said the stupid word but and the reason why I think that's important for us as women to talk about is because You know, I grew up it in a very toxic environment. My mom's a narcissist and I just yeah, can go on and on bully ⁓ bullied Critcised and everything and and like the the continuous ⁓ Narrative was were you just thick you because I do because I'm different because I do things differently So I do things although she's probably got ADHD because me and my brother have got ADHD ⁓ But it was like she always used to say to me like I did things differently because I'm sick or you know I'm a little bit dim or whatever and it's like That almost was my self-fulfilling prophecy for many years. And then I was diagnosed and then I've not had any contact with her or my brother for over a year now. And it's weird how much my wellbeing and confidence has changed and grown. And I just feel like a completely different person. So, you you're not stupid. I'm not thick. ⁓ you know, and that's that's now reflected in my grades. So my last one was 78 percent. So I'm getting not just good grades, I'm getting from what my lecturer told me exceptional. And I'm like, that makes me feel a little bit like an uneasy and it makes me cringe a little bit. But and that's only through because I've learned or I've been taught how to study effectively and how know academic skills tutors, ⁓ even English language tutors, because academic language in itself is just what? In its own, isn't it? Like an academic paper is, yeah, so I
Jean Ramsey: It's the skin- I've got to be telling the third person and all that stuff.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, and then you have to reference and cite and I'm
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ the Harvard referencing system.
Host Emma Craven: I have to do APA, American Psychological Association, but yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just, it's a minefield, isn't it? And trying to make sure that, you know, you've formatted the paper, right? And I'm just like, I just, just, and obviously it gets easier, but I just, yeah, I just want to get on and write it. Like I don't, I don't have to faff around with all that other stuff because it's... No, it's but but the point I was trying to make anyway is the thick and the stupid ⁓ is nonsense. Clearly we are more capable than we give than other people or we give ourselves credit for. Yeah. ⁓ And it's just trying to find that one subject or that special interest or, you know, for you, it was drama when you were teaching and now coaching, you know, for me, it's ADHD. I love talking about ADHD. Me too.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: you know and now psychology like I feel as well personally i've gone on like a journey of self-discovery because i've learned so much about myself Through my studies and i've actually been quite lucky with a lot of the topics from the modules Because there've been things that i'm actually interested in ⁓ you know and behavior I love to know what makes people tick. I love to fight like I don't really do small talk. I need to get into the nitty gritty like you know, like deep and that's just how I am. But yeah, so if anyone is listening to this and you're struggling academically, please reach out to the support services because, know, if I can do it, anyone can, it's not impossible. It's just we need to self advocate for ourselves and do things differently.
Jean Ramsey: I another thing that I'm very proud of. I went to a grammar school, so we did O levels, and I just couldn't get maths because I have dyscalculia, I think. And when I was at primary school, we actually lived in Africa because my dad worked on the copper mines. So I started primary school in Africa. but the company that dad worked for was called Anglo American and they used to pay for us to come back to the UK on what was called long leave. So we might come back to Scotland and be here for three months, let's say. And of course my mum would go to Kitwe Primary School and get all the books that I needed. And sometimes we came home by sea. So we got a big trunk with all these things in and my dad's mum was a primary school teacher. So we'd go off to the summer house with all my books and what I should be doing. So I do all the things that I liked. And then when it got to maths, I'd say, granny, what was it like when you were a wee girl? And we'd go off down memory lane and I wouldn't have to do the maths, but maths, you've got to have the basics, haven't you? So when I got back to my primary school, I remember Miss Lee, she was poisonous. She put a long division sum on the blackboard. You know, the bus stop system.
Host Emma Craven: Yep.
Jean Ramsey: Let me see that you've been doing the work.
Host Emma Craven: No.
Jean Ramsey: wouldn't let me sit down. I nearly wet myself in front of the whole class. Anyway, that's part of the reason why I wasn't so good at maths because there's great big gaps like percentages, what happened there? But algebra, ⁓ another thing, why are you giving it letters? But geometry I could do because I could see it. ⁓ So I did my O level maths four times. because I could do resits in the lower sixth and the upper sixth. And every time my grade got worse because my anxiety got worse. When I discovered coaching and working with the young people and I was telling, you know, if you just get that right mindset, I can't do it yet. The power of yet. Ask for the help that you need. Well, I passed my GCSE maths in June 2017. At the age of 65, clutching! Well, I think I was 65, but that's maths, isn't it? My husband said, Jean, I think that means more to you than your masters. And do you know what? It does, because it represents a total mind shift. And I so wanted to do it with all of the kids doing GCSE maths. But there was another PE teacher and somebody else, and they made us a separate place up in the sixth form to do it. But I wanted to model.
Host Emma Craven: Congratulations. Well done.
Jean Ramsey: how to do a maths exam. So you just need, you need the right mindset, don't you? You need to ask for help. ⁓ I went to all the revision sessions and I would say to kids, do you mind? I've come here to learn. you come every week? I said, I'll be here every week.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. Yeah, and I think as well is when, like for me, I've learned that if I don't, if I ask a question and I don't understand the answer, then I'll ask the question again and again. And the trick is to find the, the lecturers or the teachers if you're at school, that actually have the time and the patience to kind of allow for that. And I think, yeah, lot of it obviously is kind of internal. So it's you know that that kind of repetition of trying but failing as in not passing and stuff is then that adds more anxiety.
Jean Ramsey: I've come down with spiral.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, exactly. But congratulations. Well done. Like that is incredible. Thank you. Maths is just, yeah, I've got a C in maths, but the trigonometry and the algebra questions I didn't answer. And that's about all as much as I can remember about my GCSE at school. Yeah, you can clearly see the things that I was not interested I still struggle with writing. now so grammar punctuation I'm sure I've got dyslexia ⁓
Jean Ramsey: That's been in the back of my mind, but I didn't want to ask you.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, I think I probably have got dyslexia. I've never been diagnosed and I wouldn't know how. I think you can only pay for it and get diagnosed now. ⁓
Jean Ramsey: What's wrong with acting as if? Nothing.
Host Emma Craven: Exactly. Well, I've definitely got it because I was reading a little bit about it a few months ago and I struggle with pronunciations of words and apparently that is a huge part of being dyslexic and I was like, oh. And it literally, like my partner, I love him to bits because he knows even, you know, like anything, there's certain words that I literally cannot pronounce, even though I've tried. over and over again over and it doesn't matter it's almost like the brain and the mouth bit is kind of missing
Jean Ramsey: Well, yes, that's a huge link.
Host Emma Craven: So exactly. So and it all links into dyslexia and yeah, I struggle. write, like even when I'm typing, I type out the words wrongly, thankfully for Grammarly I've got a Microsoft Word, obviously, that's your grammar and pronunciation. But yeah, these were all concerns I had going into starting my degree. But for the most part, I think I've not really... There's been a few times when the feedback has said you haven't synthesized your points. But to me, they're synthesized. because it's been marked by a neurotypical lecturer, maybe that's why they're not understanding my synth that one fits. You know, I'm not joining my arguments up or my points up is what I say rather than the synthesized. Yeah, but yeah, it's just a matter of
Jean Ramsey: and we're just linking them.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. But I think the real world examples and the critical evaluation is the thing that I'm best at. And also, and also with every one of them except for two, which was qualitative and quantitative research methods quantitative, I swear I nearly dropped out during that module because I literally didn't under I cried so many times.
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ It's all the maths part, isn't it? The sample size and all that. ⁓ God.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So are the main median and I don't know, standard deviation and linear regression and the NOV2. I'm like, what? Like,
Jean Ramsey: It makes your brain hurt, it?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, yeah, literally. But on the two modules that I had to do quant and the one I had to do, no, the qual I really enjoyed, although it was
Jean Ramsey: That's people, that's words, isn't it?
Host Emma Craven: Exactly, exactly. So, but I did prefer the Quo because I listen to everything on audio. So I never read, like I don't read academic texts. I don't really read any words I listen because I can take in the information better. So I listen to everything on audio. ⁓ And I think that helps me to be able to make
Jean Ramsey: You may very well be an auditory learner.
Host Emma Craven: Definitely, without a doubt. Very, very, very much so. But yeah, I mean, these are all things that I really probably wouldn't have realised if I hadn't been doing my degree. Like, you know, what kind of learner am I? And rather than, you know, write in an email or write in something written to get feedback on. during the modules doesn't work for me. So one of my reasonable adjustments is that I can have up to an hour a week where I meet with one of the lecturers that's teaching on the module and talk through, you know, talk through what I've learned and kind of solidify that in my mind. So.
Jean Ramsey: what you're taking away from it.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, exactly. So rather than the written, I get to do that. And I do find that by talking about, you know, the topics really helps me to learn them better. So the audio and then the talking bit.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah. You're reinforcing it. Yeah, brilliant.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, don't know about you, but I need to have like, I need a certain amount of time to kind of, I'd say read, but I mean, listen to something. And then I need a certain amount of time to process the information. Yes. Yes.
Jean Ramsey: Mulling it over. Letting it simmer.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, exactly, yeah, and I have to I do have to allow that time. Because otherwise, if I start trying to write something, it's not going to make sense because I've not understood it properly yet.
Jean Ramsey: Do you use post-its?
Host Emma Craven: I've got post-it notes, yeah. I've got everything. I've got colour coordinated pens, What I've actually started doing this year is writing handwritten notes. So whenever I'm in a lecture or I'm reading something, if I want to include it or if I want to know more about it, I write it down. So I've got different pads for different things. I've got one that I've just finished for my university stuff. need to get a new... university one but yeah I started I'd say to people I've gone retro
Jean Ramsey: So when I was teaching some of the girls in the sixth form about essay writing, ⁓ don't worry about where you're going to put it, but just capture that idea. One idea per post-it and then you can switch the post-its round.
Host Emma Craven: One of the things I really like is mind maps. ⁓
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ yes, I even do a mind map when I go shopping. So all the dairy stuff is here, so if my husband comes with me, I can tear it in half so they are, otherwise we have two pints of milk. No, no, no, this is not being efficient without time. You take that half and I'll have this half.
Host Emma Craven: Amazing. Yeah, I love a mind map and the software that I've got, DSA gave me is called MindView. And I have ⁓ full access to that. And I love that because I can fill in the mind map, but then I can export the information to a Word document. Yeah, which makes the actual essay writing so much easier because it's not a lot of information. Obviously, I have to add to it.
Jean Ramsey: That is clever.
Host Emma Craven: but there's like the bare bones of what needs to be included. So yeah, that's another one of my study technique hacks that I use. So yeah, it's just, but I add real world examples or I add like ADHD into everything that I write. So every essay that I've written, all of them apart from two, which was quantum qual, ADHD is added into them. And that gives me the novelty and the interest then. Then I'm writing about something that I'm really interested in and passionate about.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah. And what's the attitude of your lecturers to your ADHD? Do some get it and some don't?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, I think my university is amazing and I don't name it because it's not, don't for any other reason than I just, I don't want to get done for copyrighting or anything. But my university is incredible with inclusion. It's a private university, but their EDI kind of policies, the inclusion policies, the student feedback loops and everything like they are incredibly incredibly ⁓ the word.
Jean Ramsey: supportive? Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: So they're very supportive, but they're very proactive in changing systems and stuff to suit everybody. Yeah, honestly, I can't thank them enough. But I've had a few bad experiences with specific lecturers in the first year. But since then, it's like because I'm very open. just I tell everyone I've got ADHD, although most of them spot it.
Jean Ramsey: Right, yeah.
Host Emma Craven: But
Jean Ramsey: No shit! ⁓ sorry.
Host Emma Craven: No, no, James just said a naughty word. She just said shit if anyone didn't hear me. ⁓ But I can tell the difference. I can tell if a lecturer has got ADHD or not. I yeah, I think for schools, I think for universities, I think you should have at least one or two staff members that have got ADHD that can support ADHD students because it's very different to obviously other, you know, neurodivergence. It's so but yeah, I've had a couple of bad experiences but apart from that, it's been positive but it's typical for me. So if I'm taught by somebody and I know they've got ADHD, I always do so much better because Like I say to people regularly, I talk in ADHD, I think in ADHD and I write in ADHD. So unless you've got ADHD, probably what I'm going to say or do doesn't make a lot of sense to you, but it makes sense to me.
Jean Ramsey: I that. I talk in ADHD.
Host Emma Craven: And I think that the response has... Amazing. I don't think I could have asked for more, really, to be honest. ⁓ And I do think that I hope that education for younger children is going to catch up soon. Because I think back to when I was at school, when you can probably remember when you were at school. No. Yeah, exactly, Miss Lee. Yeah, I had a pervy, I had a pervy drama teacher who's. ⁓ I'm sorry. Yeah, exactly. Well, I just going to say something completely inappropriate. But yeah, I had a pervy drama teacher. So, yeah, I didn't like particularly like drama, although I'm very dramatic now. Yeah. But yeah, so but I just I think the point that I.
Jean Ramsey: Miss Lee.
Host Emma Craven: I was trying to make without going on a million tangents. And this is meant to be you talking and not me, Jean. I'm so sorry, ⁓ You've got me onto something now. But I think the power of education, but the power more so in supporting students that learn differently and that behave differently is so important. And I think that needs to be highlighted much more. And we're proof.
Jean Ramsey: at the time as
Host Emma Craven: Proof is in the pudding for both of you. Not that I would probably, not that I think being diagnosed sooner would have helped me. I don't know whether it would or not at school, but it just goes to show that when you meet the student where they are and support them and don't try and force them to do things in a neurotypical way, think then that's the powerful kind of spaces
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: for Rousey's in it.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, yeah, tis.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, sorry, I just talked for about 10 minutes then, but I get a bit of I'll get off my soapbox now. So you are still coaching, you still do coaching.
Jean Ramsey: Yep. What I really love working with is ⁓ my group coaching program ⁓ to help grandparents and parents understand about neurodiversity. ⁓ And then, as I say, when you when you've got that awareness and the understanding and you can ask questions like, ⁓ so is this naughty or is this neurotypical? If it's naughty. then it's deliberate and it's designed to wind you up. But if it's neurotypical, it's not deliberate. And you need to address it differently. ⁓ I did a course just last summer with ⁓ these American ladies called Impact Parenting. was really good. And that's where I got that, is this naughty, is this neurotypical? And lots of parents get frustrated because their child knows to hang their towel up when they've finished it in the bathroom. Hang your towel up. And then one day, know, another day it's on the floor. Why can't you just hang your towel up? Would be the neurotypical response. But. The coach approaches, I know you know to hang your towel up when you've had your shower, but I'm guessing today you might be worried about that maths test. So you hang the towel up for them, but you're saying, you know, I know you know how to do that and I'm going to hang it up for you today because I think you've got something else on your mind. It's very simple, but very effective.
Host Emma Craven: I love that.
Jean Ramsey: It's good, isn't it? It's not mine. All those nice ladies. So it's the essential guide to raising complex kids with ADHD, anxiety and more. ⁓ it's Elaine Taylor Klaus. ⁓ Yeah, she's written this book, but she she she works in tandem with somebody else. ⁓ And then there's parenting ADHD now. ⁓ Easy intervention strategies. Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ I missed. And what I love especially is because I thought, you know, am I doing this right the way I do things? And they explicitly talk about the coach approach, something, yes, yes. And I did some training with ⁓ Human Givens and I went and did a day's course with them on supporting anxious teenagers and the facilitator. said the most powerful thing to me, he said, you do not need to be a therapist to be therapeutic. And that so landed with me because when I did my training in 2004 with the coaching Academy, they were very clear. This is coaching. This is counseling. You're not allowed to do that. You're not qualified to do that. But if somebody comes into your office to be coached and they talk to you about deliberately hurting themselves, am I supposed to send them away? Because that's not coaching.
Host Emma Craven: Okay.
Jean Ramsey: I think as long as you come from that place of unconditional positive regard and also abiding by safeguarding issues, I don't think you can go far wrong. I see it like a Venn diagram. Of course, I've got coaching at the top. There's coaching, there's counseling, and there's mentoring. And they weave in and out of each other all the time.
Host Emma Craven: I love that. So do you still see and support students?
Jean Ramsey: Yes, yes, I'm working. My latest interest is working on emotionally based school avoidance because that is huge. And the impact is huge because it impacts mums and dads as well. They can't go to work because they've had another phone call from the school. We can't control him or her or she's refusing to go to lessons. You're going to have to come and take her home or him. And they want to be there. They want to learn. We've got to make it so that they can.
Host Emma Craven: yeah which is a big job in itself but it's not impossible
Jean Ramsey: No, it's not. So I, this is really beautiful. I'm working with the daughter of somebody that I used to teach. ⁓ And when we first met her daughter, she was not wanting to go to school. We met in coffee first in town, put up, she wouldn't, she wouldn't make eye contact with me at all. And by the time we'd finished and catching up, which was
Host Emma Craven: Aww.
Jean Ramsey: looking at me and smiling and laughing, I yes. And then our first session was supposed to be in the library but I got there early and I thought ⁓ no she won't like this, it's far too busy. So I texted mum to say the library's too busy, she won't like it. Mum was already at the door saying she's already seen somebody that she knows she doesn't want to come in. I said no. So then we went to the coffee shop in the top of Sainsbury's and mum sat away and now she is happy to come to my house. for two hours and for mum to go away and come back.
Host Emma Craven: Wow.
Jean Ramsey: That's massive, isn't it? And I taught her how to do mind maps.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, that's incredible.
Jean Ramsey: But, but you know, yeah, we have to be so careful about the academization of schools, because schools are businesses now, they have to think about their bottom line. So they want kids to come in, so that massages their attendance figures, you know, anything. This is about the welfare of the young person, not your thinking attendance figures.
Host Emma Craven: all the what grades they're going to get because ⁓ they get high grades.
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ Exactly. Exactly. The head of years working out all she could do, you know, that could be nine GCSEs. We're not going to do nine GCSEs. We're going to do what she needs. because that's in English. Yeah. Mum has already worked out that she can have a placement with her sister who's got ⁓ a nursery. She wants to do childcare and she'll be brilliant. She'll be brilliant. So we're just on survival mode to get through year 11. And keeping mum and her together, working as a team, keeping their relationship intact. Because once you start trying to push your child to go into school, that's when it all goes very, very wrong.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah.
Jean Ramsey: And it's a long game. It's a long game, as you know. But it doesn't matter because you get there in the end on your own terms.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is obviously a big change that the school systems probably will not implement for a while yet. But I think, you know, because I think about, ⁓ you know, children in classrooms, like I wouldn't be able, I couldn't do it before when I was younger. I think now, you know, a lot of the time ADHD is just perceived, whether it's a girl or a boy, as ⁓ being disruptive and, you know, not kind of conforming to what the expectations are. it's because we need to learn differently, don't we? Like we've already talked about, you know, we need to be able to learn in a way that's more suitable to us. But unfortunately, the school system or the education system is not set up for people or kids with ADHD or autism or No. And it's just such a shame because we have so much to offer and unfortunately you know with younger children are not given the opportunity to be able to thrive and that's just sad for me.
Jean Ramsey: No. It's very sad, but there are beacons of light, there are schools that get it, but we need more of them. We need them to be heard.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, yeah we need the schools that get it, that implement changes to talk about that and then that's going to create more educational kind of changes.
Jean Ramsey: That's what we need, a more humane system for everybody, the staff as well as the young people. It's a nightmare now. All this zero tolerance and no talking in the corridors. We are social creatures. That is how we learn.
Host Emma Craven: No talking in the corridors.
Jean Ramsey: No talking in the corridors. Why? Because you'll be focused. And being sent off to, know, ⁓ what do they call them? Those horrible study ⁓ exclusion, whether excluded. What are they called? Within the school, you can be sent off to ⁓ a room to to sit on your own and think about what you've done.
Host Emma Craven: But what if all you've done is forget to bring a pen or forget your pad or forget a pencil or forget your calculator or you're just feeling a little bit overwhelmed because it's noisy in the classroom and you can't cope with that because you're overstimulated and you've then kind of done something and then you're sent to sit on your own and think about what you've done when you haven't actually even done anything wrong.
Jean Ramsey: No, no.
Host Emma Craven: It just...
Jean Ramsey: It's sickening, isn't it?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, it actually breaks my heart. think because I think that, ⁓ you know, just with a little bit of and it's not even like you started saying, like it's not awareness. We need to move into the action now. We need to kind of. Because there's so many of my friends, ⁓ you know, people I've known since school or people I've met through Facebook or just, you know, there's lots of people contact me regularly who are parents and.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, we need
Host Emma Craven: the school system and the send, is it send special education, whatever, just the whole process and how their children are treated at school. is just absolutely some of the time I just think.
Jean Ramsey: That may very well be illegal actually, because if you do not make adequate adjustments for somebody who has, and you don't have to have an EHCP, you're contravening the Disabilities Act.
Host Emma Craven: Exactly. The Equality Act. Yeah. But unfortunately, there's not a lot of like, I think, you know, the parents are just exhausted because, you know, it's a couple of them have contacted me and I've talked them through what ADHD is and they start interparent differently, which is nice because, you know, you need a different approach. You can't scream and shout at a kid because he won't. do what you've asked him or you cut or her or whatever you actually need to parent very differently. need to teach differently as well. you know, I told them about the Equality Act and said that the school's got a legal requirement to, you know, put reasonable adjustments in place. And then they've come back to me and said, right, I'm in the process. They're sorting it out. They're doing this. They're doing that. I'm like, just a simple conversation. It wasn't like, you know,
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: So yeah, I love that you're actually doing work around that as well, meeting the students where they are and kind of advocating for them, but also teaching them in a way that's more suitable for them. And I think that's really admirable. I'd love to do that. That would be incredible.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, well why not?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. I think I might have to look into that because I would really like to do that.
Jean Ramsey: I'd love to help you.
Host Emma Craven: Thank you, that would be amazing Yeah, that would be amazing if you do any webinars or you need anyone to talk as well as you've just seen in the last however long we've been Have you got So for the listeners Unfortunately, we had technical problems, which is a regular occurrence for me So yeah, anyway, yeah, I feel like I'm talking like I'm
Jean Ramsey: Yeah. What the fuck?
Host Emma Craven: Honestly, I knew I was going to like you because you were telling me about your grandparent. And I was just like, yeah, I don't know. I sometimes kind of I like and don't please don't take this the wrong way. But I like like a mother figure because I've missed that.
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ I'd listen. She was my best friend. Don't we look alike?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. Wow.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, she died of a horrible brain disease in 2007 and she was only 77 years young. I know and her name was her name was Jean and ⁓ my daughters adored her and Esme our little granddaughter her middle name is Jean and I'm doing my very very best to be nanny Jean mark two.
Host Emma Craven: Bless her.
Jean Ramsey: So I'm not offended at all. I'm giving you a hug.
Host Emma Craven: Thank you. Yeah. was only when I got with my current partner and then really connected with his mum that I realised that actually the way that I've always been treated and that might seem a bit silly or like, I don't know, weird or something but it's only through the young conditional love from him and from, you know, his mum who I now call mum. that I realized how badly I was being treated and you know since then I've really had to kind of put myself first and look after my well-being and make sure that I'm nurturing you know myself rather than just putting up with their bullshit all the time so yeah yeah but no I mean any help I'd welcome any help like I just yeah but if you do any of your webinars or anything then please I'm happy to come along and talk
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ thank you very much. Thank you.
Host Emma Craven: So yeah, yes. So it would be a pleasure to collaborate with you, That would be great. them?
Jean Ramsey: Don't waste your time languishing on a waiting list. Act as if, do your reading, reach out to people who are genuine, because there's an awful lot of bullshit out there. Yeah, act as if, which is what I've been doing. And ⁓ yeah, there's lots of help out there. And follow your heart.
Host Emma Craven: That's yeah, it's beautiful. And I always say to people like, you know, get really inquisitive, because obviously the symptoms differ dramatically, though they can be person and person with unnatural abilities as well. And this is a conversation for another day, but we talk about hormonal changes in women, which we can probably talk another hour about that, because that's fascinating. But I think has women, all young girls, Just yeah, get inquisitive, like learn about your ADHD symptoms and like I call it harnessing them to my advantage because I know people don't like to think of ADHD. It's toxic positivity. If you say ADHD is a superpower, I don't really care. I just don't. don't know. If you want to say I say gifted superpower, like there's things that we can do. that neurotypical people can't and you know, so it's, yeah, just encouraged, like I just encourage everyone, like just learn about it. How can you use that to kind of your advantage and stuff? So yeah, thank you so much anyway, Jean, for your time today. I thoroughly have enjoyed talking to you. Eventually, we'll talk over the technical issues. I would love to have you back as well because I'd love to do a little bit of you know, ⁓ a focus on students maybe not, I know we've talked about it today, but it would be lovely to have you back as a guest again because I've thoroughly enjoyed talking to you.
Jean Ramsey: I'd love to come back. Thank you very much for having me.
Host Emma Craven: It's been an absolute pleasure and yes, I'd love to have you back. But for today, sadly, I'm going to stop recording in a minute. The brain, when I have to, like this happens to me every time when I have to go back to like saying good afternoon, good evening and all that, you know, welcome, brain just stops working. So anyway, to the listeners, thank you for listening today. And if any of the things that we've talked about have resonated with you, then we would love. to hear about them. ⁓ The links to Jean's website and the work that Jean does will be in the description of this podcast episode. So yeah, a huge thank you to Jean. Thank you very much for your time and ⁓ to our listeners, take care and bye-bye for now.
Jean Ramsey: I've been delighted, Emma, and thank you very much for inviting me on your podcast. So my name is Jean Ramsey. I'm a woman of a certain age. I was a teacher for 35 years and I discovered coaching very early on. I did my first training with the Coaching Academy in 2004 and I immediately saw that this could have a huge impact using the coach approach.
Host Emma Craven: pleasure.
Jean Ramsey: on my teaching in school, on my relationships, on being a mum. It has been a life-changing adventure learning how to use the coach approach. And when I retired, I began, well, I started my business when I was still teaching, coachingforschools.com. And I just want to support people, neurodivergent families on this journey because it,
Host Emma Craven: is
Jean Ramsey: I like sailing, there are lot of choppy waters to navigate. And if you are raising neurodivergent or neuro-spicy, whatever you want to call them, highly sensitive young people, it's much harder work. It's much harder work. And it has a huge toll on mums especially, because they carry it all. And that's what led me to develop my group coaching program to support mums. But especially, I was very interested in grandparents because they have such a huge part to play. Because so many grandparents, myself included, we've just got a new granddaughter, are being asked to help with childcare. And if you don't understand what neurodiversity is and you come at it with neurotypical parenting techniques, like don't let them get away with that. you're making a rod for your own back, et cetera, et cetera, you're just gonna make a difficult situation even more fraught with anxiety and judgment. For the parents are your children, aren't they? If you're the grandparent and you're telling them that they're rubbish parents with the eye rolling and the tutting. So that's my mission to help people to understand. So I like to... talk about going from awareness about what it is and the journey takes a long time sometimes, but to acceptance. And sometimes we have to grieve for the child that we don't have, the one we had in our imagination. And then the final step is to take action and work together as a team. So that's kind of where I'm coming from. Advocating the coach approach in all things. to make everybody feel better about themselves.
Host Emma Craven: Wow. mean, yeah, I can't even think of anything to cut just amazing work like it's worthwhile work as well if that makes sense because it's obviously much needed and it's actually quite a niche that I'd not thought about until we've just talked about it, you know, particularly for grandparents. yeah, so. Would you like to talk a little bit about your diagnosis journey? ⁓ If you don't mind.
Jean Ramsey: I don't mind and I don't like to call it a diagnosis because I'm not very much. I was assessed by our own daughter. She's the one who's the A &E nurse and her partner was assessed by his sister who is a Senco and he did pay to have his assessment privately. And when he had his done, he thought, hang on a minute, Emma does this, Emma does that. So he started leaving books about for Emma to read. And then I don't know if Emma paid for her assessment price. She may well have done actually. Or the NHS might have paid for her to have it. But it was eye opening. And then when she got her assessment result, she said, and you know, you've got it too, don't you, mum? And I thought, how very dare you? Of course I haven't. How have I reached this age? And then I started to do the research. ⁓ my god, yes! I remember spending hours and hours designing an all-singing, all-dancing, colour-coordinated revision timetable for my A-levels and my mum pointed out, Jean, you've spent more time designing the revision timetable than you've actually spent on doing any revision! And I thought, hmm, well that's because revision's boring, isn't it? Well, the way I was taught to revise at first. So all these things began to make sense, like, I was nearly late for my graduation ceremony because I misread the invitation. ⁓ I thought I'd lost my passport and my husband found it on my printer, you because I'd had to send a photocopy somewhere. So I haven't got an official assessment, but ⁓ my goodness me, I tick the boxes. And that's really helped me to understand where I come from and why I had such an affinity with the challenging young people in school. I got them and they got me and I would let them do things. ⁓ I remember teaching an English lesson and I was talking about, know, suicide means death of yourself, matricide means killing your mother, patricide means killing your father and without missing a beat a boy at the back shouted out and pesticide means killing your sister. And I thought that's genius, absolute genius. He'd followed the rule. Whereas another colleague might have told him off for shouting out. I thought, no, how clever, how clever. Yeah. So I just, I just love mixing with the tribe now that I know I belong.
Host Emma Craven: So how, mean teaching for 35 years, wow, what did you just teach English or did you teach anything else?
Jean Ramsey: No, I started off teaching English ⁓ and I've worked at the same school all my career, which is very unusual. So I started off in the English department and I taught English for a good 20 years, I guess. But ⁓ my God, the English literature, you have to study. this GCSE anthology and it's the same poetry, it's the same short stories. I thought, if I have to teach your shoes one more time, I'm going to stick pins in my eyes. And now I know that's because of my ADHD and I was bored. So I used to watch in the, well, we used to have a staff room. That's a thing that's gone by the wayside indeed. They're going to bring it back. Thank goodness. I used to look at the creative arts department. I they're always having a laugh. And they call themselves the Creative Farts Department.
Host Emma Craven: How do I join in?
Jean Ramsey: And I was given a test. They always did a Christmas concert and they wanted to put on a mumma's play. So the head of music said, Jean, would you like to direct it? I ⁓ yes, I'd love to. So we did that and it was a big success. I didn't know that was my test. And then the chap who was head of drama, he wanted to go back to be a pastoral lead. And in those days, you weren't allowed to have two significant roles. So in his letter of application to go back to being head of year seven, he said, I would like Jean Ramsey to be head of drama. People don't write letters like that anymore. So that was my in to the creative farts department. I found my home.
Host Emma Craven: I can tell by the look on your face that you know, you know, your face is lit up now you're starting to talk about the drama. Yeah.
Jean Ramsey: because everybody can excel at that if they want to. I used to think about drama as there's the people who really good at it and the people who really hate it. And I would think about them because in the school, I'm not sure if they still do it now, but everybody did all of the creative arts up until the end of year nine. So everybody did drama once a week, whether they liked it or not. But by the time I'd finished with them. most of them really liked it. So in my mind I saw the kids who really got it and the kids who didn't really get it and I'd think of them as my drama for therapy group, you know. And I'd say things like, you're going to be asked to make a best man's speech or you're going to want to stand up for yourself and ask for a pay rise. These are life skills I'm teaching you here, girls and boys. So I, yeah, I just loved it. I just loved it. And I was in charge of
Host Emma Craven: Yeah.
Jean Ramsey: whole school productions and it would bring the whole school together. The art department would help design the props. Well, that'd be technology actually. We'd paint the set in the February half term. it's just such a life enhancing thing. And I'm so sad that people don't see the value of creative arts and how much money they bring to the economy. That's a different rabbit hole.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, I would have liked to have been taught by you. It sounds fascinating. I'm probably like a drama no-no person, but I'm sure I could get into it if I, you know, just kind of had the opportunity to. But also, yeah, I would have loved to have, because I do think, you know, as neurodivergent people, we do, we are very creative. And obviously, you know, we have to find that one thing that gives us the fire in the belly. Yeah. And that's it.
Jean Ramsey: Even the autistic young people. I remember one boy in particular, he used to always keep his pen between him and the world. And he hated improvisation. He'd say, Mrs. Ramsey, they're being very noisy. And I'd say, yeah, but if you listen, come with me and listen to each group. Well, he said, well, they are talking about the work, aren't they? said, yes, they are. They're working, but it is quite noisy. And I'm sorry that you don't like that. So I think, I'll tell you what though, I've got a job. I've got all these exam papers that need to be sorted out. I could do that for you. But then in the next half term, we would do reading off a script and we'd be in a big circle and people would say, I want to be such and such. And this boy in particular, he could read immaculately, immaculately straight off a script, do all the accents. And that gave the rest of class the insight that actually he may not be good at improvisation, but my God, is he good at reading off a script and doing the accents.
Host Emma Craven: That's beautiful. Because you're playing to their strengths, aren't you? So you're playing to the students' strengths, which is, yeah, it's not something that...
Jean Ramsey: I didn't make him join a group for the improvisation because I knew he wasn't comfortable. And my god, my exam papers have never been so immaculately filed ever.
Host Emma Craven: can imagine. I love that. Yeah. And just think of all them amazing all of the students that you made a significant difference to like just that one. It's not a simple act is it but you just you know you you enabled the young boy to kind of play to his strengths and do things that he can do and enjoyed doing. Like I hate reading off a script. just, I just can't, it's like my brain can't cope with it, but I know that lots of other people do like it. And I just think that's what a wonderful experience. You've imprinted on all of them children's lives. You know, it's just.
Jean Ramsey: I could share one other thing, which no, I'm going to. So there's a pub in the town, a Wetherspoons pub, it's where people hang out on Christmas Eve. So I love to go in there on Christmas Eve because lots of my ex-students are in there. And this one boy in particular, he came up to me and he said, is this your husband, Mrs. Rousey? said, this is indeed. He said, I want to shake your hands, Mr. Ramsey. I want you to know that your wife kept me out of prison.
Host Emma Craven: Okay.
Jean Ramsey: How cool is that?
Host Emma Craven: It's just...
Jean Ramsey: He was very autistic. He was very autistic. He wouldn't make eye contact with me at all when we started. I didn't teach him drama. This was ⁓ when I was working as a coach in school, because they kept me on to work as a coach. ⁓ Sadly, I've been let go because of cutbacks, but that's their mistake. It certainly is. I would never be out pushing myself out here.
Host Emma Craven: Bye!
Jean Ramsey: if that hadn't happened. So it's a gift and an opportunity, sorry, Emma.
Host Emma Craven: He Yeah, I mean imagine that that that just keeping a young person out of prison is just Yeah, because I mean, I often will think back to my school. I never really liked school. It was boring. I was the daydreamer sitting at the back of the classroom, you know, looking out of the window thinking I desperately want this person to stop talking because this is boring. Just, you know, sitting still for as long as we had to. I liked Home economics, because I like cooking. Yeah, exactly. I like that.
Jean Ramsey: up on your feet? That's what my mum taught.
Host Emma Craven: Oh, homey, yeah, I used to really enjoy that. But everything else was just, I hated doing PE. I had a period every week, so I couldn't do PE. I didn't really. But it was, you know, it's one of them things. Or I just, oh, I'm sorry, I can't do it today. I forgot to bring my PE kit. And then they started making me get something out of that. This is a tangent. Yeah, this is a complete tangent. But. It's like, you know, then they made me wear something out of the lost puppet. And I was like, yeah, I'm bringing the P.E. in. I'm not wearing anyone else's. And we were we were we were really poor when I was at school as well. And that was clear for the other kids to see. And so it wasn't kind of I just didn't like school. got bullied so badly.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: so badly that I ate soap to make myself sick so I wouldn't have to go to school and I just yeah so it just wasn't a pleasant experience for me school at all um but it kind of gave me some strength um you know would it have changed anything if I'd have been diagnosed sooner um or assessed as you like to say sooner I doubt it at all I don't I don't think it it would have done within my learning um or anything but I think it would have given me you know self-confidence self-esteem self-worth that's probably what a new an earlier um diagnosis would have given me but that's not my journey is it so I try not to dwell on that at all but yeah and I think kind of fast forward to being an adult. I was diagnosed at 43 in 2019. I'd tried and failed and tried and achieved lots and lots of different courses. And then now I'm studying psychology online, like 100 % online. Good for you. But it's weird because it makes me go a little bit goose pimply because I'm not good at kind of blowing my own trumpet if that makes sense. Like I really struggled to be kind of ⁓ proud of my achievements but you know I watched my daughter go through a midwifery degree and she was exhausted as I'm sure you saw for your daughter as well. You know working in A &E is probably yeah manic. But I saw her and then I COVID hit and it was like a year or so after COVID and I thought I wanted to do a psychology, either a GCSE or an A level when my friend got me to talk to me out of that because she said you're already too far ahead because I've counselling studies and stuff. I've done a lot of stuff, but I just didn't always achieve great things within it because I just I couldn't because I didn't know I had ADHD. So anyway, studying online and knowing about my ADHD, also kind of for the last couple of years, focusing on like my strengths rather than.
Jean Ramsey: Wonderful coach approach my dear.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, yes, I did have some coaching. was very grateful for that. Yeah. So yeah, it is a coach. So I love the fact that you've kind of worked. Sorry, that was a complete tangent, but I mean, I'm coming down to I'm coming back to a point now. So apologies. So yeah, I love the fact that you're doing the coach approach still because I think even within my university, we've got success coaches. And the value that they bring to the students is huge. They look at different kind of ⁓ approaches to study in, they look at confidence, they look at, you know, effective time management for any student. And I think, you know, as an ADHD student, I think definitely like it is enabled me to find confidence within my academic
Jean Ramsey: Yeah Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: writing quicker if that makes sense.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, it does make sense. I did my masters at Oxford, but only because I wanted to prove
Host Emma Craven: You are Oxford University. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm talking to I'm talking to am I talking to a professor or a doctor?
Jean Ramsey: don't know. Just a master's, just a master's. That's as far as I go. But I wanted to prove to myself that I'm not stupid. And Emma did her nursing degree with Brooks in Oxford. And the same thing, wonderful support to help her with her academic writing and time management and all those other things. So you've just taken the scenic route, that's all. Yeah, and nothing's wasted, Emma, nothing is wasted.
Host Emma Craven: Yes. And I know that and I like I don't like the fact that you've said the stupid word but and the reason why I think that's important for us as women to talk about is because You know, I grew up it in a very toxic environment. My mom's a narcissist and I just yeah, can go on and on bully ⁓ bullied Critcised and everything and and like the the continuous ⁓ Narrative was were you just thick you because I do because I'm different because I do things differently So I do things although she's probably got ADHD because me and my brother have got ADHD ⁓ But it was like she always used to say to me like I did things differently because I'm sick or you know I'm a little bit dim or whatever and it's like That almost was my self-fulfilling prophecy for many years. And then I was diagnosed and then I've not had any contact with her or my brother for over a year now. And it's weird how much my wellbeing and confidence has changed and grown. And I just feel like a completely different person. So, you you're not stupid. I'm not thick. ⁓ you know, and that's that's now reflected in my grades. So my last one was 78 percent. So I'm getting not just good grades, I'm getting from what my lecturer told me exceptional. And I'm like, that makes me feel a little bit like an uneasy and it makes me cringe a little bit. But and that's only through because I've learned or I've been taught how to study effectively and how know academic skills tutors, ⁓ even English language tutors, because academic language in itself is just what? In its own, isn't it? Like an academic paper is, yeah, so I
Jean Ramsey: It's the skin- I've got to be telling the third person and all that stuff.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, and then you have to reference and cite and I'm
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ the Harvard referencing system.
Host Emma Craven: I have to do APA, American Psychological Association, but yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just, it's a minefield, isn't it? And trying to make sure that, you know, you've formatted the paper, right? And I'm just like, I just, just, and obviously it gets easier, but I just, yeah, I just want to get on and write it. Like I don't, I don't have to faff around with all that other stuff because it's... No, it's but but the point I was trying to make anyway is the thick and the stupid ⁓ is nonsense. Clearly we are more capable than we give than other people or we give ourselves credit for. Yeah. ⁓ And it's just trying to find that one subject or that special interest or, you know, for you, it was drama when you were teaching and now coaching, you know, for me, it's ADHD. I love talking about ADHD. Me too.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: you know and now psychology like I feel as well personally i've gone on like a journey of self-discovery because i've learned so much about myself Through my studies and i've actually been quite lucky with a lot of the topics from the modules Because there've been things that i'm actually interested in ⁓ you know and behavior I love to know what makes people tick. I love to fight like I don't really do small talk. I need to get into the nitty gritty like you know, like deep and that's just how I am. But yeah, so if anyone is listening to this and you're struggling academically, please reach out to the support services because, know, if I can do it, anyone can, it's not impossible. It's just we need to self advocate for ourselves and do things differently.
Jean Ramsey: I another thing that I'm very proud of. I went to a grammar school, so we did O levels, and I just couldn't get maths because I have dyscalculia, I think. And when I was at primary school, we actually lived in Africa because my dad worked on the copper mines. So I started primary school in Africa. but the company that dad worked for was called Anglo American and they used to pay for us to come back to the UK on what was called long leave. So we might come back to Scotland and be here for three months, let's say. And of course my mum would go to Kitwe Primary School and get all the books that I needed. And sometimes we came home by sea. So we got a big trunk with all these things in and my dad's mum was a primary school teacher. So we'd go off to the summer house with all my books and what I should be doing. So I do all the things that I liked. And then when it got to maths, I'd say, granny, what was it like when you were a wee girl? And we'd go off down memory lane and I wouldn't have to do the maths, but maths, you've got to have the basics, haven't you? So when I got back to my primary school, I remember Miss Lee, she was poisonous. She put a long division sum on the blackboard. You know, the bus stop system.
Host Emma Craven: Yep.
Jean Ramsey: Let me see that you've been doing the work.
Host Emma Craven: No.
Jean Ramsey: wouldn't let me sit down. I nearly wet myself in front of the whole class. Anyway, that's part of the reason why I wasn't so good at maths because there's great big gaps like percentages, what happened there? But algebra, ⁓ another thing, why are you giving it letters? But geometry I could do because I could see it. ⁓ So I did my O level maths four times. because I could do resits in the lower sixth and the upper sixth. And every time my grade got worse because my anxiety got worse. When I discovered coaching and working with the young people and I was telling, you know, if you just get that right mindset, I can't do it yet. The power of yet. Ask for the help that you need. Well, I passed my GCSE maths in June 2017. At the age of 65, clutching! Well, I think I was 65, but that's maths, isn't it? My husband said, Jean, I think that means more to you than your masters. And do you know what? It does, because it represents a total mind shift. And I so wanted to do it with all of the kids doing GCSE maths. But there was another PE teacher and somebody else, and they made us a separate place up in the sixth form to do it. But I wanted to model.
Host Emma Craven: Congratulations. Well done.
Jean Ramsey: how to do a maths exam. So you just need, you need the right mindset, don't you? You need to ask for help. ⁓ I went to all the revision sessions and I would say to kids, do you mind? I've come here to learn. you come every week? I said, I'll be here every week.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. Yeah, and I think as well is when, like for me, I've learned that if I don't, if I ask a question and I don't understand the answer, then I'll ask the question again and again. And the trick is to find the, the lecturers or the teachers if you're at school, that actually have the time and the patience to kind of allow for that. And I think, yeah, lot of it obviously is kind of internal. So it's you know that that kind of repetition of trying but failing as in not passing and stuff is then that adds more anxiety.
Jean Ramsey: I've come down with spiral.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, exactly. But congratulations. Well done. Like that is incredible. Thank you. Maths is just, yeah, I've got a C in maths, but the trigonometry and the algebra questions I didn't answer. And that's about all as much as I can remember about my GCSE at school. Yeah, you can clearly see the things that I was not interested I still struggle with writing. now so grammar punctuation I'm sure I've got dyslexia ⁓
Jean Ramsey: That's been in the back of my mind, but I didn't want to ask you.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, I think I probably have got dyslexia. I've never been diagnosed and I wouldn't know how. I think you can only pay for it and get diagnosed now. ⁓
Jean Ramsey: What's wrong with acting as if? Nothing.
Host Emma Craven: Exactly. Well, I've definitely got it because I was reading a little bit about it a few months ago and I struggle with pronunciations of words and apparently that is a huge part of being dyslexic and I was like, oh. And it literally, like my partner, I love him to bits because he knows even, you know, like anything, there's certain words that I literally cannot pronounce, even though I've tried. over and over again over and it doesn't matter it's almost like the brain and the mouth bit is kind of missing
Jean Ramsey: Well, yes, that's a huge link.
Host Emma Craven: So exactly. So and it all links into dyslexia and yeah, I struggle. write, like even when I'm typing, I type out the words wrongly, thankfully for Grammarly I've got a Microsoft Word, obviously, that's your grammar and pronunciation. But yeah, these were all concerns I had going into starting my degree. But for the most part, I think I've not really... There's been a few times when the feedback has said you haven't synthesized your points. But to me, they're synthesized. because it's been marked by a neurotypical lecturer, maybe that's why they're not understanding my synth that one fits. You know, I'm not joining my arguments up or my points up is what I say rather than the synthesized. Yeah, but yeah, it's just a matter of
Jean Ramsey: and we're just linking them.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. But I think the real world examples and the critical evaluation is the thing that I'm best at. And also, and also with every one of them except for two, which was qualitative and quantitative research methods quantitative, I swear I nearly dropped out during that module because I literally didn't under I cried so many times.
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ It's all the maths part, isn't it? The sample size and all that. ⁓ God.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So are the main median and I don't know, standard deviation and linear regression and the NOV2. I'm like, what? Like,
Jean Ramsey: It makes your brain hurt, it?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, yeah, literally. But on the two modules that I had to do quant and the one I had to do, no, the qual I really enjoyed, although it was
Jean Ramsey: That's people, that's words, isn't it?
Host Emma Craven: Exactly, exactly. So, but I did prefer the Quo because I listen to everything on audio. So I never read, like I don't read academic texts. I don't really read any words I listen because I can take in the information better. So I listen to everything on audio. ⁓ And I think that helps me to be able to make
Jean Ramsey: You may very well be an auditory learner.
Host Emma Craven: Definitely, without a doubt. Very, very, very much so. But yeah, I mean, these are all things that I really probably wouldn't have realised if I hadn't been doing my degree. Like, you know, what kind of learner am I? And rather than, you know, write in an email or write in something written to get feedback on. during the modules doesn't work for me. So one of my reasonable adjustments is that I can have up to an hour a week where I meet with one of the lecturers that's teaching on the module and talk through, you know, talk through what I've learned and kind of solidify that in my mind. So.
Jean Ramsey: what you're taking away from it.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, exactly. So rather than the written, I get to do that. And I do find that by talking about, you know, the topics really helps me to learn them better. So the audio and then the talking bit.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah. You're reinforcing it. Yeah, brilliant.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, don't know about you, but I need to have like, I need a certain amount of time to kind of, I'd say read, but I mean, listen to something. And then I need a certain amount of time to process the information. Yes. Yes.
Jean Ramsey: Mulling it over. Letting it simmer.
Host Emma Craven: Yes, exactly, yeah, and I have to I do have to allow that time. Because otherwise, if I start trying to write something, it's not going to make sense because I've not understood it properly yet.
Jean Ramsey: Do you use post-its?
Host Emma Craven: I've got post-it notes, yeah. I've got everything. I've got colour coordinated pens, What I've actually started doing this year is writing handwritten notes. So whenever I'm in a lecture or I'm reading something, if I want to include it or if I want to know more about it, I write it down. So I've got different pads for different things. I've got one that I've just finished for my university stuff. need to get a new... university one but yeah I started I'd say to people I've gone retro
Jean Ramsey: So when I was teaching some of the girls in the sixth form about essay writing, ⁓ don't worry about where you're going to put it, but just capture that idea. One idea per post-it and then you can switch the post-its round.
Host Emma Craven: One of the things I really like is mind maps. ⁓
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ yes, I even do a mind map when I go shopping. So all the dairy stuff is here, so if my husband comes with me, I can tear it in half so they are, otherwise we have two pints of milk. No, no, no, this is not being efficient without time. You take that half and I'll have this half.
Host Emma Craven: Amazing. Yeah, I love a mind map and the software that I've got, DSA gave me is called MindView. And I have ⁓ full access to that. And I love that because I can fill in the mind map, but then I can export the information to a Word document. Yeah, which makes the actual essay writing so much easier because it's not a lot of information. Obviously, I have to add to it.
Jean Ramsey: That is clever.
Host Emma Craven: but there's like the bare bones of what needs to be included. So yeah, that's another one of my study technique hacks that I use. So yeah, it's just, but I add real world examples or I add like ADHD into everything that I write. So every essay that I've written, all of them apart from two, which was quantum qual, ADHD is added into them. And that gives me the novelty and the interest then. Then I'm writing about something that I'm really interested in and passionate about.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah. And what's the attitude of your lecturers to your ADHD? Do some get it and some don't?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, I think my university is amazing and I don't name it because it's not, don't for any other reason than I just, I don't want to get done for copyrighting or anything. But my university is incredible with inclusion. It's a private university, but their EDI kind of policies, the inclusion policies, the student feedback loops and everything like they are incredibly incredibly ⁓ the word.
Jean Ramsey: supportive? Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: So they're very supportive, but they're very proactive in changing systems and stuff to suit everybody. Yeah, honestly, I can't thank them enough. But I've had a few bad experiences with specific lecturers in the first year. But since then, it's like because I'm very open. just I tell everyone I've got ADHD, although most of them spot it.
Jean Ramsey: Right, yeah.
Host Emma Craven: But
Jean Ramsey: No shit! ⁓ sorry.
Host Emma Craven: No, no, James just said a naughty word. She just said shit if anyone didn't hear me. ⁓ But I can tell the difference. I can tell if a lecturer has got ADHD or not. I yeah, I think for schools, I think for universities, I think you should have at least one or two staff members that have got ADHD that can support ADHD students because it's very different to obviously other, you know, neurodivergence. It's so but yeah, I've had a couple of bad experiences but apart from that, it's been positive but it's typical for me. So if I'm taught by somebody and I know they've got ADHD, I always do so much better because Like I say to people regularly, I talk in ADHD, I think in ADHD and I write in ADHD. So unless you've got ADHD, probably what I'm going to say or do doesn't make a lot of sense to you, but it makes sense to me.
Jean Ramsey: I that. I talk in ADHD.
Host Emma Craven: And I think that the response has... Amazing. I don't think I could have asked for more, really, to be honest. ⁓ And I do think that I hope that education for younger children is going to catch up soon. Because I think back to when I was at school, when you can probably remember when you were at school. No. Yeah, exactly, Miss Lee. Yeah, I had a pervy, I had a pervy drama teacher who's. ⁓ I'm sorry. Yeah, exactly. Well, I just going to say something completely inappropriate. But yeah, I had a pervy drama teacher. So, yeah, I didn't like particularly like drama, although I'm very dramatic now. Yeah. But yeah, so but I just I think the point that I.
Jean Ramsey: Miss Lee.
Host Emma Craven: I was trying to make without going on a million tangents. And this is meant to be you talking and not me, Jean. I'm so sorry, ⁓ You've got me onto something now. But I think the power of education, but the power more so in supporting students that learn differently and that behave differently is so important. And I think that needs to be highlighted much more. And we're proof.
Jean Ramsey: at the time as
Host Emma Craven: Proof is in the pudding for both of you. Not that I would probably, not that I think being diagnosed sooner would have helped me. I don't know whether it would or not at school, but it just goes to show that when you meet the student where they are and support them and don't try and force them to do things in a neurotypical way, think then that's the powerful kind of spaces
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: for Rousey's in it.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, yeah, tis.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, sorry, I just talked for about 10 minutes then, but I get a bit of I'll get off my soapbox now. So you are still coaching, you still do coaching.
Jean Ramsey: Yep. What I really love working with is ⁓ my group coaching program ⁓ to help grandparents and parents understand about neurodiversity. ⁓ And then, as I say, when you when you've got that awareness and the understanding and you can ask questions like, ⁓ so is this naughty or is this neurotypical? If it's naughty. then it's deliberate and it's designed to wind you up. But if it's neurotypical, it's not deliberate. And you need to address it differently. ⁓ I did a course just last summer with ⁓ these American ladies called Impact Parenting. was really good. And that's where I got that, is this naughty, is this neurotypical? And lots of parents get frustrated because their child knows to hang their towel up when they've finished it in the bathroom. Hang your towel up. And then one day, know, another day it's on the floor. Why can't you just hang your towel up? Would be the neurotypical response. But. The coach approaches, I know you know to hang your towel up when you've had your shower, but I'm guessing today you might be worried about that maths test. So you hang the towel up for them, but you're saying, you know, I know you know how to do that and I'm going to hang it up for you today because I think you've got something else on your mind. It's very simple, but very effective.
Host Emma Craven: I love that.
Jean Ramsey: It's good, isn't it? It's not mine. All those nice ladies. So it's the essential guide to raising complex kids with ADHD, anxiety and more. ⁓ it's Elaine Taylor Klaus. ⁓ Yeah, she's written this book, but she she she works in tandem with somebody else. ⁓ And then there's parenting ADHD now. ⁓ Easy intervention strategies. Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ I missed. And what I love especially is because I thought, you know, am I doing this right the way I do things? And they explicitly talk about the coach approach, something, yes, yes. And I did some training with ⁓ Human Givens and I went and did a day's course with them on supporting anxious teenagers and the facilitator. said the most powerful thing to me, he said, you do not need to be a therapist to be therapeutic. And that so landed with me because when I did my training in 2004 with the coaching Academy, they were very clear. This is coaching. This is counseling. You're not allowed to do that. You're not qualified to do that. But if somebody comes into your office to be coached and they talk to you about deliberately hurting themselves, am I supposed to send them away? Because that's not coaching.
Host Emma Craven: Okay.
Jean Ramsey: I think as long as you come from that place of unconditional positive regard and also abiding by safeguarding issues, I don't think you can go far wrong. I see it like a Venn diagram. Of course, I've got coaching at the top. There's coaching, there's counseling, and there's mentoring. And they weave in and out of each other all the time.
Host Emma Craven: I love that. So do you still see and support students?
Jean Ramsey: Yes, yes, I'm working. My latest interest is working on emotionally based school avoidance because that is huge. And the impact is huge because it impacts mums and dads as well. They can't go to work because they've had another phone call from the school. We can't control him or her or she's refusing to go to lessons. You're going to have to come and take her home or him. And they want to be there. They want to learn. We've got to make it so that they can.
Host Emma Craven: yeah which is a big job in itself but it's not impossible
Jean Ramsey: No, it's not. So I, this is really beautiful. I'm working with the daughter of somebody that I used to teach. ⁓ And when we first met her daughter, she was not wanting to go to school. We met in coffee first in town, put up, she wouldn't, she wouldn't make eye contact with me at all. And by the time we'd finished and catching up, which was
Host Emma Craven: Aww.
Jean Ramsey: looking at me and smiling and laughing, I yes. And then our first session was supposed to be in the library but I got there early and I thought ⁓ no she won't like this, it's far too busy. So I texted mum to say the library's too busy, she won't like it. Mum was already at the door saying she's already seen somebody that she knows she doesn't want to come in. I said no. So then we went to the coffee shop in the top of Sainsbury's and mum sat away and now she is happy to come to my house. for two hours and for mum to go away and come back.
Host Emma Craven: Wow.
Jean Ramsey: That's massive, isn't it? And I taught her how to do mind maps.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, that's incredible.
Jean Ramsey: But, but you know, yeah, we have to be so careful about the academization of schools, because schools are businesses now, they have to think about their bottom line. So they want kids to come in, so that massages their attendance figures, you know, anything. This is about the welfare of the young person, not your thinking attendance figures.
Host Emma Craven: all the what grades they're going to get because ⁓ they get high grades.
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ Exactly. Exactly. The head of years working out all she could do, you know, that could be nine GCSEs. We're not going to do nine GCSEs. We're going to do what she needs. because that's in English. Yeah. Mum has already worked out that she can have a placement with her sister who's got ⁓ a nursery. She wants to do childcare and she'll be brilliant. She'll be brilliant. So we're just on survival mode to get through year 11. And keeping mum and her together, working as a team, keeping their relationship intact. Because once you start trying to push your child to go into school, that's when it all goes very, very wrong.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah.
Jean Ramsey: And it's a long game. It's a long game, as you know. But it doesn't matter because you get there in the end on your own terms.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is obviously a big change that the school systems probably will not implement for a while yet. But I think, you know, because I think about, ⁓ you know, children in classrooms, like I wouldn't be able, I couldn't do it before when I was younger. I think now, you know, a lot of the time ADHD is just perceived, whether it's a girl or a boy, as ⁓ being disruptive and, you know, not kind of conforming to what the expectations are. it's because we need to learn differently, don't we? Like we've already talked about, you know, we need to be able to learn in a way that's more suitable to us. But unfortunately, the school system or the education system is not set up for people or kids with ADHD or autism or No. And it's just such a shame because we have so much to offer and unfortunately you know with younger children are not given the opportunity to be able to thrive and that's just sad for me.
Jean Ramsey: No. It's very sad, but there are beacons of light, there are schools that get it, but we need more of them. We need them to be heard.
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, yeah we need the schools that get it, that implement changes to talk about that and then that's going to create more educational kind of changes.
Jean Ramsey: That's what we need, a more humane system for everybody, the staff as well as the young people. It's a nightmare now. All this zero tolerance and no talking in the corridors. We are social creatures. That is how we learn.
Host Emma Craven: No talking in the corridors.
Jean Ramsey: No talking in the corridors. Why? Because you'll be focused. And being sent off to, know, ⁓ what do they call them? Those horrible study ⁓ exclusion, whether excluded. What are they called? Within the school, you can be sent off to ⁓ a room to to sit on your own and think about what you've done.
Host Emma Craven: But what if all you've done is forget to bring a pen or forget your pad or forget a pencil or forget your calculator or you're just feeling a little bit overwhelmed because it's noisy in the classroom and you can't cope with that because you're overstimulated and you've then kind of done something and then you're sent to sit on your own and think about what you've done when you haven't actually even done anything wrong.
Jean Ramsey: No, no.
Host Emma Craven: It just...
Jean Ramsey: It's sickening, isn't it?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah, it actually breaks my heart. think because I think that, ⁓ you know, just with a little bit of and it's not even like you started saying, like it's not awareness. We need to move into the action now. We need to kind of. Because there's so many of my friends, ⁓ you know, people I've known since school or people I've met through Facebook or just, you know, there's lots of people contact me regularly who are parents and.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, we need
Host Emma Craven: the school system and the send, is it send special education, whatever, just the whole process and how their children are treated at school. is just absolutely some of the time I just think.
Jean Ramsey: That may very well be illegal actually, because if you do not make adequate adjustments for somebody who has, and you don't have to have an EHCP, you're contravening the Disabilities Act.
Host Emma Craven: Exactly. The Equality Act. Yeah. But unfortunately, there's not a lot of like, I think, you know, the parents are just exhausted because, you know, it's a couple of them have contacted me and I've talked them through what ADHD is and they start interparent differently, which is nice because, you know, you need a different approach. You can't scream and shout at a kid because he won't. do what you've asked him or you cut or her or whatever you actually need to parent very differently. need to teach differently as well. you know, I told them about the Equality Act and said that the school's got a legal requirement to, you know, put reasonable adjustments in place. And then they've come back to me and said, right, I'm in the process. They're sorting it out. They're doing this. They're doing that. I'm like, just a simple conversation. It wasn't like, you know,
Jean Ramsey: Yeah.
Host Emma Craven: So yeah, I love that you're actually doing work around that as well, meeting the students where they are and kind of advocating for them, but also teaching them in a way that's more suitable for them. And I think that's really admirable. I'd love to do that. That would be incredible.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, well why not?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. I think I might have to look into that because I would really like to do that.
Jean Ramsey: I'd love to help you.
Host Emma Craven: Thank you, that would be amazing Yeah, that would be amazing if you do any webinars or you need anyone to talk as well as you've just seen in the last however long we've been Have you got So for the listeners Unfortunately, we had technical problems, which is a regular occurrence for me So yeah, anyway, yeah, I feel like I'm talking like I'm
Jean Ramsey: Yeah. What the fuck?
Host Emma Craven: Honestly, I knew I was going to like you because you were telling me about your grandparent. And I was just like, yeah, I don't know. I sometimes kind of I like and don't please don't take this the wrong way. But I like like a mother figure because I've missed that.
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ I'd listen. She was my best friend. Don't we look alike?
Host Emma Craven: Yeah. Wow.
Jean Ramsey: Yeah, she died of a horrible brain disease in 2007 and she was only 77 years young. I know and her name was her name was Jean and ⁓ my daughters adored her and Esme our little granddaughter her middle name is Jean and I'm doing my very very best to be nanny Jean mark two.
Host Emma Craven: Bless her.
Jean Ramsey: So I'm not offended at all. I'm giving you a hug.
Host Emma Craven: Thank you. Yeah. was only when I got with my current partner and then really connected with his mum that I realised that actually the way that I've always been treated and that might seem a bit silly or like, I don't know, weird or something but it's only through the young conditional love from him and from, you know, his mum who I now call mum. that I realized how badly I was being treated and you know since then I've really had to kind of put myself first and look after my well-being and make sure that I'm nurturing you know myself rather than just putting up with their bullshit all the time so yeah yeah but no I mean any help I'd welcome any help like I just yeah but if you do any of your webinars or anything then please I'm happy to come along and talk
Jean Ramsey: ⁓ thank you very much. Thank you.
Host Emma Craven: So yeah, yes. So it would be a pleasure to collaborate with you, That would be great. them?
Jean Ramsey: Don't waste your time languishing on a waiting list. Act as if, do your reading, reach out to people who are genuine, because there's an awful lot of bullshit out there. Yeah, act as if, which is what I've been doing. And ⁓ yeah, there's lots of help out there. And follow your heart.
Host Emma Craven: That's yeah, it's beautiful. And I always say to people like, you know, get really inquisitive, because obviously the symptoms differ dramatically, though they can be person and person with unnatural abilities as well. And this is a conversation for another day, but we talk about hormonal changes in women, which we can probably talk another hour about that, because that's fascinating. But I think has women, all young girls, Just yeah, get inquisitive, like learn about your ADHD symptoms and like I call it harnessing them to my advantage because I know people don't like to think of ADHD. It's toxic positivity. If you say ADHD is a superpower, I don't really care. I just don't. don't know. If you want to say I say gifted superpower, like there's things that we can do. that neurotypical people can't and you know, so it's, yeah, just encouraged, like I just encourage everyone, like just learn about it. How can you use that to kind of your advantage and stuff? So yeah, thank you so much anyway, Jean, for your time today. I thoroughly have enjoyed talking to you. Eventually, we'll talk over the technical issues. I would love to have you back as well because I'd love to do a little bit of you know, ⁓ a focus on students maybe not, I know we've talked about it today, but it would be lovely to have you back as a guest again because I've thoroughly enjoyed talking to you.
Jean Ramsey: I'd love to come back. Thank you very much for having me.
Host Emma Craven: It's been an absolute pleasure and yes, I'd love to have you back. But for today, sadly, I'm going to stop recording in a minute. The brain, when I have to, like this happens to me every time when I have to go back to like saying good afternoon, good evening and all that, you know, welcome, brain just stops working. So anyway, to the listeners, thank you for listening today. And if any of the things that we've talked about have resonated with you, then we would love. to hear about them. ⁓ The links to Jean's website and the work that Jean does will be in the description of this podcast episode. So yeah, a huge thank you to Jean. Thank you very much for your time and ⁓ to our listeners, take care and bye-bye for now.
