Natalie McMaster: Welcome to our podcast. My name's Nat, McMaster, and I'm a member of the AARE Technology and Learning Special Interest Group. And tonight I'm chatting to Niamh O'Sullivan, who's been using virtual reality and augmented reality in her primary school classroom in Queensland. So, Niamh, can you please briefly tell the listeners about yourself and what we mean when we use the terms VR And AR?
Niamh O'Sullivan: I'm a specialist technology teacher. But I also work as a a bit of a digital pedagogy coach supporting teachers to use technology as well. And the term virtual reality is where you put on a headset and you are completely immersed in a virtual world that is made up of digital content. That can be an animated creation, or it could be a pre-recorded digital video, or an image. Something like that. But you're completely immersed, so you can't see the world around you. And then, when you think of augmented reality is when you have digital information overlaid on the world around you. So good examples of that are like, you're using social media and they're putting lenses on your face and things like that. So you can see the real world but you can also see some sort of digital media overlaid on there as well.
Natalie McMaster: Perfect. Maybe we'll start off tonight with you explaining the use of VR and the program CoSpaces that you're using in the classroom.
Niamh O'Sullivan: I'm using CoSpaces, which is a basically a web-based platform that allows students to create and explore virtual and augmented reality environments. So it's a paid platform, and in my opinion, it's not as not too expensive for the use that you get out of it. And I can give a code at the end, and for a 30 day free trial with it. But it's a platform where you set up a class. And the students have the ability to create interactive 3D worlds or interactive AR models. And then, as an educator, you can integrate different objects and different puppets and different bits and pieces. But ultimately it's the website that you can set assignments or group work and different bits and pieces in there. And then the beauty of that is that it goes from the website where the kids are creating on the computer to an app that you can use on an iPhone or on a tablet to be able to view those creations, but also it's a plugin to a lot of popular VR headsets. On there, you just scan a QR code from the screen of the computer, and you can see the creation that the kids have made. So it brings the VR world that they're making on the computer, kind of into real life, and that they can put the headset on, and they're completely immersed in it. The good thing about CoSpaces is that it's got a library in there, and a lot of resources in the library and a lot of ways to like upload content into it, which is very simple for kids to use. Anywhere, from I would say around the grade 2 level all the way up to high school, Year 12, university level, and above.
Natalie McMaster: Fantastic. So I guess the next question is about sort of research. And what are some of the pedagogies that have brought you down this path of using this sort of technology.
Niamh O'Sullivan: There's a lot of pedagogies that support this. But some of the main ones, I would say, is the constructivist theory. For the kids to engage in the creation of the AR. There's 2 ways teachers and schools use VR and AR. One way is the viewing of pre-created content. Videos and themes and so on, and augmented reality. So that's one kind of way you can use it in the classroom. And then another way is that you get the kids to actually create content. So creating VR world and augmented reality objects. And kind of both of them fit in the constructivism theory. Because it emphasises that learners construct knowledge most efficiently when they're actively engaged in creating something external or searchable, such as a digital artifact. It stimulates realistic environments and gives experiences for students. And and then they're able to kind of make abstract thinking and concepts because they're able to see it, hear it. And then, potentially, they've read about it, and we've talked about it. But it gives that extra kind of level to and the learning experience. And then kind of linked in with that is the idea that they're using inquiry based learning. So they're not only and being told about it, they're actually learning themselves. So they're able to look at things they're able to inquire about them. They're able to kind of research, solve problems together. When they're creating the stuff It's very inquiry driven, which then, the research shows, makes the learning more meaningful and relevant as they're actively engaged in discovering and constructing the knowledge rather than just hearing the knowledge.
Natalie McMaster: Fabulous. So Niamh, I'm really interested in how you support classroom teachers with the integration of VR and AR at your school?
Niamh O'Sullivan: I work as a a digital pedagogy coach. So I work across the school trying to up skill teachers to use digital pedagogy. And one of the focuses for our school has been this immersive realities, which is VR and AR, and getting students engaged in this platform. So what I've done initially is kind of work with the HOC (Head of Curriculum) and map out where this into the different year levels and across the year. And we use post spaces for the reason that, it's user friendly. But it sets itself up as you buy the seats in a classroom. So if we're using it across the year. We can put kids in and out of it each term. So you're not purchasing for the child. So if we have 150 seats. The year 5s can use in Term one. The Year 6s is in Term 2. The Year 3s in term 4. And a different year level, in term, oh I skipped a term, but one of the terms. And you can see how it's cost effective because it's used across the school. And so once it's mapped out, and we kind of, with the teachers, in their planning days, thought of what assessment piece we're gonna use it with, because when it's linked to an assessment, it's more meaningful. And then what I do is go into the classrooms for the first 4 weeks of the term and upscale that year level, and that teacher on how to use the technology. So just basic things, how to log in, how to create the assignment, how to add things into the world, how to do some coding. Because you can do simple and more detailed coding. And how to do simple animations. If they're doing AI, how to make that work on what we call a Merge Cube, which CoSpaces works with. Or if they're dealing VR, how to choose a different environment. So for the first couple of weeks. I just go heavy on with tech skills. While at another point that week the teacher would have been teaching the content. And then at around the week 4, or week 5 mark, then they merge them together. So that's when the teacher goes. Okay. Now, you've got your learning of the technology, and we have a good base understanding of the topic. So now I want you to create a world that shows me you're learning. For example, the Year 4s, one of the terms used it for the first fleet, and they created a VR world that had 3 scenes in it. The first theme was life in London. There are lots of environment you can choose from. But one of the environments is the city environment. They put that in. They had to have people in there that were talking about. When you clicked on them. They said what it was like to be in London. The second theme was at sea, which is also an easy environment. And then the third scene was when they arrived in Australia, and then the people at that scene, had to talk about what it was like when they first entered Australia. So you can see how they had the tech skills to be able to do that. And then by week 10, the teachers were able to go in, because it's teacher controlled. They can see what the kids can do. And either mark it. Or sometimes, if the kids are a bit more high level, we've got the kids to just do a little screen recording of them moving through their own virtual reality world. And then it can be marked with the headset on the iPad or on the computer. I prefer to mark it in the headset because it's completely interactive. You're fully immersed. You're getting the full feeling for it, and that's kind of what would happen each year level, each term.
Natalie McMaster: And do the kids do these projects individually.
Niamh O'Sullivan: You can do both ways, so you can set, as a teacher, You have the option to set the assignment and you can set them for individuals or for groups. So in some cases they're individually and some cases they're groups. And then sometimes, even when they're groups and they're all within the same world. So a lot of people would have an idea of Mine Craft in that you're all in the same world, and you can see the creations. It's similar to that. The differences are you can have different scenes in there. So you might have divided the scenes among different people, and you can have up to the whole class in the one world if you want, although that could get a bit messy if people are moving things and so on.
Natalie McMaster: Oh, good. So I guess people will ask about is assessment. So how does the classroom teacher link it to their assessment for learning.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Very easily, actually, especially with ACARA 9.0 coming out, because it talks a lot about digital skills. But ultimately, we talk with the HOC, and obviously the classroom teachers are involved as well. We just kind of look the different assessment topics or units. It in so it can be anything. For example, like I've just gone through that first fleet one, but the Year 3s, I think. Or the Year 2s were using them at one time we're doing the life cycle of butterfly. And they used the Merge Cube. Which is an augmented reality kind of cube. So if you think there's 6 sizes to it, and on each side. They were given the images. So it's a little bit easier. They just had to put the images of the life cycle. And then you're able to record audio into it. So just recorded audio of themselves explaining that stage of the life cycle. And then as you clicked on it, it played the different sound. So you were able to get the kids understanding of it. I would say it pretty much lends itself to any English or HASS unit with ease. It's just a matter of kind of thinking outside the box. Rather than getting kids to write that information down, or create a Powerpoint. You're letting them put that information in the room. And I said before, like you could have people speaking, but you could also have like billboards or text boards. Or there's one way you can just put a gallery in. So as they walk through the gallery, you can put videos on the wall and images on the wall, or object in there. So it's like walking through museum. So you just kinda have to be open to receiving the information in a more modern world. Which then allows the kids to be more engaged.
Natalie McMaster: Oh, perfect. So I guess now that we're talking about the kids, what changes have you seen with the kids in using? AR VR.
Niamh O'Sullivan: The biggest change has just been engagement wise. So when students kind of navigate these virtual spaces, they can kind of do so at their own pace and ability. And then it becomes more student centered, and the teacher is more of a facilitator, rather than the continuous feedback loop. And I feel like they're a lot more proud of what they've created. Which then leads to a lot more of that engagement. Because they're creating it themselves, they're able to change some of the smaller details. Like, if you put a person in, you can have, they can have a red hat, with a blue top and green pants. Like the little things. But in their mind, it becomes a bit more real. And then as well, it allows the student feedback loop to be better. So I'm a student, and I'm creating my first fleet project. You might partner me up with the person sitting beside me. And they have to view mine with their headset on, and then they're immersed in it, and they're seeing what I'm creating. And then they're better, I find, better able to give me feedback. They're better able to go, "Oh, I didn't really understand what it was like in London", or "That person didn't kind of explain it properly", or "When we were on the boat, I actually. You didn't mention this. Or you didn't mention that." It's their kind of type of technology, if that makes sense. So they're more comfortable with it, and then they're more likely to engage, and want to give that feedback to others. Because they want to actually see others. Whereas if you're getting them to read a piece of information, they're less likely to want to read that. When you're letting them present the information, you're giving them that autonomy. Then the kids have ownership of it. Which then ultimately allows them to kind of have a bit more responsibility and a bit more investment.
Natalie McMaster: And so do you find that because their work is being shown to other students in the class, that their effort improves as well like.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Yeah, without a doubt. Not that we you want to be promoting kids to work outside of the class or anything like that. But it is that software that they can log into, so like at any time. Like my school has a BYOD. So they have their laptops at home, or when they have that free time in class, you'll notice that some of those kids will jump in and go the extra mile, because they are more invested. And they're putting that bit more effort in. And when you're sharing and showing and you're learning from others as well, because you'll see somebody else's, and what they have. Or when you click on that, it's moving. Or whatever and they're like, 'Oh, how do you do that', and then they show each other. And they kind of just it builds on top of itself.
Natalie McMaster: And I guess that's the beauty of CoSpaces as well as a teacher, is that you get to go in and have a look at what they're working on in real time as well.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Completely, real time.
Natalie McMaster: Great.
Niamh O'Sullivan: And it's good because you can show it up on the board, or, one of the classes, they just printed all the classes QR codes and didn't say who's was who's? They're all out. They pinned them up around the room, and that day they got the iPads out, and you can turn on the gyro on the ipad. So it's literally as you move the ipad, you're moving through it, and so on. And yeah, it's that idea that you can't actually see it in real time, share it in real time. It's instantaneous.
Natalie McMaster: Oh, perfect! So if a teacher wanted to start this in their classroom, what are your top tips.
Niamh O'Sullivan: I would say, just have a go. So if you go to the CoSpaces website, you can do, there's a basic model that is free. And you just sign up and you can have a whole class set. So you can invite 29 and students. And you can create the one class, and you can create one assignment. So basically allows you to do it for free, with one assignment for your class. And when they're signed up, they also have, like a playground where the kids can do their own thing. But if you wanted to go into the paid file, which you can as well. And when you go onto their website they have like a 30 day free trial. Just go and have a play. Once you kind of get in there, you'll want to just keep diving further and further in
Natalie McMaster: Fabulous. In terms of your use of AR and VR, what's the best thing about it?
Niamh O'Sullivan: I think the best thing about the use of VR and AR is the future thinking approach to the curriculum. like, they always say, we're creating kids for jobs that we don't know exist yet. And virtual reality and augmented reality and immersive reality are at the forefront. And it's just that kids, you can see them light up with the excitement of doing it.
Natalie McMaster: Perfect. Safety is something that I suppose teachers are worried about when it comes to wearing VR goggles and that sort of stuff. How do you work with that within your classroom?
Niamh O'Sullivan: Sure, cool. With CoSpaces you don't always have to have the VR. You can, like, I said, you can just view it on the iPhone or the iPad as well. And also you can just press play when you're creating. But the VR, the ones we have, the class VR headsets, you would have a lot more than just CoSpaces. You're basically just sitting down with this one. It's not one of the ones where you're walking around and you have the controls in your hands and so on. So basically, they're seated at all times. And you kind of just have that policy in place that no one's touching them, because obviously they're fully immersed. And in the reality it's very much that kind of behaviour management thing. And the main kind of safety consideration or something to keep in mind, is just not wearing them for too long. And there's no reason why you would be So the the two main concerns are movement and sitting down with these ones. If you have, like an Oculus Rift, or something like that. You have like a tapped off area, and I know within them you can put them within a quarantine area. And then when they step outside that the camera comes up, so they can say where they are. But when they're inside that area they're safe. But yeah, sitting down, and then just not wearing them for extended period of time, which there shouldn't be. I haven't. I've been using them for about 3 or 4 years now, and there's no reason to be having them on for extended period of time. They're kind of part of the creation. If you're creating and viewing, or the part of the learning. If you're just viewing things and you've taken them off unpacking what you've seen popping them back on taking them off.
Natalie McMaster: Awesome. Well, thanks for tonight Niamh. That was great. I love hearing about what's happening in the classroom. And it's really exciting, I think, to have primary school students who are creating their own. VR, and AR. So yeah.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Yeah, it's awesome. So good to see.
Natalie McMaster: Thanks for tonight.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Not a problem. Thanks for having me, it was good.
Niamh O'Sullivan: I'm a specialist technology teacher. But I also work as a a bit of a digital pedagogy coach supporting teachers to use technology as well. And the term virtual reality is where you put on a headset and you are completely immersed in a virtual world that is made up of digital content. That can be an animated creation, or it could be a pre-recorded digital video, or an image. Something like that. But you're completely immersed, so you can't see the world around you. And then, when you think of augmented reality is when you have digital information overlaid on the world around you. So good examples of that are like, you're using social media and they're putting lenses on your face and things like that. So you can see the real world but you can also see some sort of digital media overlaid on there as well.
Natalie McMaster: Perfect. Maybe we'll start off tonight with you explaining the use of VR and the program CoSpaces that you're using in the classroom.
Niamh O'Sullivan: I'm using CoSpaces, which is a basically a web-based platform that allows students to create and explore virtual and augmented reality environments. So it's a paid platform, and in my opinion, it's not as not too expensive for the use that you get out of it. And I can give a code at the end, and for a 30 day free trial with it. But it's a platform where you set up a class. And the students have the ability to create interactive 3D worlds or interactive AR models. And then, as an educator, you can integrate different objects and different puppets and different bits and pieces. But ultimately it's the website that you can set assignments or group work and different bits and pieces in there. And then the beauty of that is that it goes from the website where the kids are creating on the computer to an app that you can use on an iPhone or on a tablet to be able to view those creations, but also it's a plugin to a lot of popular VR headsets. On there, you just scan a QR code from the screen of the computer, and you can see the creation that the kids have made. So it brings the VR world that they're making on the computer, kind of into real life, and that they can put the headset on, and they're completely immersed in it. The good thing about CoSpaces is that it's got a library in there, and a lot of resources in the library and a lot of ways to like upload content into it, which is very simple for kids to use. Anywhere, from I would say around the grade 2 level all the way up to high school, Year 12, university level, and above.
Natalie McMaster: Fantastic. So I guess the next question is about sort of research. And what are some of the pedagogies that have brought you down this path of using this sort of technology.
Niamh O'Sullivan: There's a lot of pedagogies that support this. But some of the main ones, I would say, is the constructivist theory. For the kids to engage in the creation of the AR. There's 2 ways teachers and schools use VR and AR. One way is the viewing of pre-created content. Videos and themes and so on, and augmented reality. So that's one kind of way you can use it in the classroom. And then another way is that you get the kids to actually create content. So creating VR world and augmented reality objects. And kind of both of them fit in the constructivism theory. Because it emphasises that learners construct knowledge most efficiently when they're actively engaged in creating something external or searchable, such as a digital artifact. It stimulates realistic environments and gives experiences for students. And and then they're able to kind of make abstract thinking and concepts because they're able to see it, hear it. And then, potentially, they've read about it, and we've talked about it. But it gives that extra kind of level to and the learning experience. And then kind of linked in with that is the idea that they're using inquiry based learning. So they're not only and being told about it, they're actually learning themselves. So they're able to look at things they're able to inquire about them. They're able to kind of research, solve problems together. When they're creating the stuff It's very inquiry driven, which then, the research shows, makes the learning more meaningful and relevant as they're actively engaged in discovering and constructing the knowledge rather than just hearing the knowledge.
Natalie McMaster: Fabulous. So Niamh, I'm really interested in how you support classroom teachers with the integration of VR and AR at your school?
Niamh O'Sullivan: I work as a a digital pedagogy coach. So I work across the school trying to up skill teachers to use digital pedagogy. And one of the focuses for our school has been this immersive realities, which is VR and AR, and getting students engaged in this platform. So what I've done initially is kind of work with the HOC (Head of Curriculum) and map out where this into the different year levels and across the year. And we use post spaces for the reason that, it's user friendly. But it sets itself up as you buy the seats in a classroom. So if we're using it across the year. We can put kids in and out of it each term. So you're not purchasing for the child. So if we have 150 seats. The year 5s can use in Term one. The Year 6s is in Term 2. The Year 3s in term 4. And a different year level, in term, oh I skipped a term, but one of the terms. And you can see how it's cost effective because it's used across the school. And so once it's mapped out, and we kind of, with the teachers, in their planning days, thought of what assessment piece we're gonna use it with, because when it's linked to an assessment, it's more meaningful. And then what I do is go into the classrooms for the first 4 weeks of the term and upscale that year level, and that teacher on how to use the technology. So just basic things, how to log in, how to create the assignment, how to add things into the world, how to do some coding. Because you can do simple and more detailed coding. And how to do simple animations. If they're doing AI, how to make that work on what we call a Merge Cube, which CoSpaces works with. Or if they're dealing VR, how to choose a different environment. So for the first couple of weeks. I just go heavy on with tech skills. While at another point that week the teacher would have been teaching the content. And then at around the week 4, or week 5 mark, then they merge them together. So that's when the teacher goes. Okay. Now, you've got your learning of the technology, and we have a good base understanding of the topic. So now I want you to create a world that shows me you're learning. For example, the Year 4s, one of the terms used it for the first fleet, and they created a VR world that had 3 scenes in it. The first theme was life in London. There are lots of environment you can choose from. But one of the environments is the city environment. They put that in. They had to have people in there that were talking about. When you clicked on them. They said what it was like to be in London. The second theme was at sea, which is also an easy environment. And then the third scene was when they arrived in Australia, and then the people at that scene, had to talk about what it was like when they first entered Australia. So you can see how they had the tech skills to be able to do that. And then by week 10, the teachers were able to go in, because it's teacher controlled. They can see what the kids can do. And either mark it. Or sometimes, if the kids are a bit more high level, we've got the kids to just do a little screen recording of them moving through their own virtual reality world. And then it can be marked with the headset on the iPad or on the computer. I prefer to mark it in the headset because it's completely interactive. You're fully immersed. You're getting the full feeling for it, and that's kind of what would happen each year level, each term.
Natalie McMaster: And do the kids do these projects individually.
Niamh O'Sullivan: You can do both ways, so you can set, as a teacher, You have the option to set the assignment and you can set them for individuals or for groups. So in some cases they're individually and some cases they're groups. And then sometimes, even when they're groups and they're all within the same world. So a lot of people would have an idea of Mine Craft in that you're all in the same world, and you can see the creations. It's similar to that. The differences are you can have different scenes in there. So you might have divided the scenes among different people, and you can have up to the whole class in the one world if you want, although that could get a bit messy if people are moving things and so on.
Natalie McMaster: Oh, good. So I guess people will ask about is assessment. So how does the classroom teacher link it to their assessment for learning.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Very easily, actually, especially with ACARA 9.0 coming out, because it talks a lot about digital skills. But ultimately, we talk with the HOC, and obviously the classroom teachers are involved as well. We just kind of look the different assessment topics or units. It in so it can be anything. For example, like I've just gone through that first fleet one, but the Year 3s, I think. Or the Year 2s were using them at one time we're doing the life cycle of butterfly. And they used the Merge Cube. Which is an augmented reality kind of cube. So if you think there's 6 sizes to it, and on each side. They were given the images. So it's a little bit easier. They just had to put the images of the life cycle. And then you're able to record audio into it. So just recorded audio of themselves explaining that stage of the life cycle. And then as you clicked on it, it played the different sound. So you were able to get the kids understanding of it. I would say it pretty much lends itself to any English or HASS unit with ease. It's just a matter of kind of thinking outside the box. Rather than getting kids to write that information down, or create a Powerpoint. You're letting them put that information in the room. And I said before, like you could have people speaking, but you could also have like billboards or text boards. Or there's one way you can just put a gallery in. So as they walk through the gallery, you can put videos on the wall and images on the wall, or object in there. So it's like walking through museum. So you just kinda have to be open to receiving the information in a more modern world. Which then allows the kids to be more engaged.
Natalie McMaster: Oh, perfect. So I guess now that we're talking about the kids, what changes have you seen with the kids in using? AR VR.
Niamh O'Sullivan: The biggest change has just been engagement wise. So when students kind of navigate these virtual spaces, they can kind of do so at their own pace and ability. And then it becomes more student centered, and the teacher is more of a facilitator, rather than the continuous feedback loop. And I feel like they're a lot more proud of what they've created. Which then leads to a lot more of that engagement. Because they're creating it themselves, they're able to change some of the smaller details. Like, if you put a person in, you can have, they can have a red hat, with a blue top and green pants. Like the little things. But in their mind, it becomes a bit more real. And then as well, it allows the student feedback loop to be better. So I'm a student, and I'm creating my first fleet project. You might partner me up with the person sitting beside me. And they have to view mine with their headset on, and then they're immersed in it, and they're seeing what I'm creating. And then they're better, I find, better able to give me feedback. They're better able to go, "Oh, I didn't really understand what it was like in London", or "That person didn't kind of explain it properly", or "When we were on the boat, I actually. You didn't mention this. Or you didn't mention that." It's their kind of type of technology, if that makes sense. So they're more comfortable with it, and then they're more likely to engage, and want to give that feedback to others. Because they want to actually see others. Whereas if you're getting them to read a piece of information, they're less likely to want to read that. When you're letting them present the information, you're giving them that autonomy. Then the kids have ownership of it. Which then ultimately allows them to kind of have a bit more responsibility and a bit more investment.
Natalie McMaster: And so do you find that because their work is being shown to other students in the class, that their effort improves as well like.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Yeah, without a doubt. Not that we you want to be promoting kids to work outside of the class or anything like that. But it is that software that they can log into, so like at any time. Like my school has a BYOD. So they have their laptops at home, or when they have that free time in class, you'll notice that some of those kids will jump in and go the extra mile, because they are more invested. And they're putting that bit more effort in. And when you're sharing and showing and you're learning from others as well, because you'll see somebody else's, and what they have. Or when you click on that, it's moving. Or whatever and they're like, 'Oh, how do you do that', and then they show each other. And they kind of just it builds on top of itself.
Natalie McMaster: And I guess that's the beauty of CoSpaces as well as a teacher, is that you get to go in and have a look at what they're working on in real time as well.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Completely, real time.
Natalie McMaster: Great.
Niamh O'Sullivan: And it's good because you can show it up on the board, or, one of the classes, they just printed all the classes QR codes and didn't say who's was who's? They're all out. They pinned them up around the room, and that day they got the iPads out, and you can turn on the gyro on the ipad. So it's literally as you move the ipad, you're moving through it, and so on. And yeah, it's that idea that you can't actually see it in real time, share it in real time. It's instantaneous.
Natalie McMaster: Oh, perfect! So if a teacher wanted to start this in their classroom, what are your top tips.
Niamh O'Sullivan: I would say, just have a go. So if you go to the CoSpaces website, you can do, there's a basic model that is free. And you just sign up and you can have a whole class set. So you can invite 29 and students. And you can create the one class, and you can create one assignment. So basically allows you to do it for free, with one assignment for your class. And when they're signed up, they also have, like a playground where the kids can do their own thing. But if you wanted to go into the paid file, which you can as well. And when you go onto their website they have like a 30 day free trial. Just go and have a play. Once you kind of get in there, you'll want to just keep diving further and further in
Natalie McMaster: Fabulous. In terms of your use of AR and VR, what's the best thing about it?
Niamh O'Sullivan: I think the best thing about the use of VR and AR is the future thinking approach to the curriculum. like, they always say, we're creating kids for jobs that we don't know exist yet. And virtual reality and augmented reality and immersive reality are at the forefront. And it's just that kids, you can see them light up with the excitement of doing it.
Natalie McMaster: Perfect. Safety is something that I suppose teachers are worried about when it comes to wearing VR goggles and that sort of stuff. How do you work with that within your classroom?
Niamh O'Sullivan: Sure, cool. With CoSpaces you don't always have to have the VR. You can, like, I said, you can just view it on the iPhone or the iPad as well. And also you can just press play when you're creating. But the VR, the ones we have, the class VR headsets, you would have a lot more than just CoSpaces. You're basically just sitting down with this one. It's not one of the ones where you're walking around and you have the controls in your hands and so on. So basically, they're seated at all times. And you kind of just have that policy in place that no one's touching them, because obviously they're fully immersed. And in the reality it's very much that kind of behaviour management thing. And the main kind of safety consideration or something to keep in mind, is just not wearing them for too long. And there's no reason why you would be So the the two main concerns are movement and sitting down with these ones. If you have, like an Oculus Rift, or something like that. You have like a tapped off area, and I know within them you can put them within a quarantine area. And then when they step outside that the camera comes up, so they can say where they are. But when they're inside that area they're safe. But yeah, sitting down, and then just not wearing them for extended period of time, which there shouldn't be. I haven't. I've been using them for about 3 or 4 years now, and there's no reason to be having them on for extended period of time. They're kind of part of the creation. If you're creating and viewing, or the part of the learning. If you're just viewing things and you've taken them off unpacking what you've seen popping them back on taking them off.
Natalie McMaster: Awesome. Well, thanks for tonight Niamh. That was great. I love hearing about what's happening in the classroom. And it's really exciting, I think, to have primary school students who are creating their own. VR, and AR. So yeah.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Yeah, it's awesome. So good to see.
Natalie McMaster: Thanks for tonight.
Niamh O'Sullivan: Not a problem. Thanks for having me, it was good.
