Ep. 9: Human Composting: Reimagining Death, Soil, and Choice

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As a funeral ejector who has met with hundreds of families.
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Never ever have I heard a family or a person
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come into pre plan and they'll be like, Oh my gosh,
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I'm so excited for cremation. I can't wait to be cremated.
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It's going to be great. At you know, we have
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people doing that for terimation and talking about everything that
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they want their family their friends to do with the soil,
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what kind of trees they want planted, what kind of flowers.
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I want to make sure that there's flowers that pollinators
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come around, because you know, my daughter loves bees, and
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so when she passed away, we're going to spread out
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all of the soil with seeds so that it's all
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pollinators that come to this area. And so we hear
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people excited about this.
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Welcome to Talk Death Delaware, a podcast exploring the traditions, challenges,
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and personal stories around death and dying in the First State,
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from local funeral customs to end of life care and grief.
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We open up conversations that many avoid but everyone eventually faces.
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Whether you're seeking comfort, clarity, or you're just curious, join
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us as we talk honestly about life's final chapter. I'm
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your host, Linda Gould, and to day I'm talking with
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Mandy Stafford of return Home, one of the three major
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companies that offer families what is colloquially known as human composting,
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but officially known as natural organic reduction. Human composting is
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legal in Delaware, it has been for about a year now,
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but there are no facilities in the state that accommodate
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those who want their bodies to become soil, and that
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is one of the issues that Mandy and I will
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discuss in today's interview. When I first started talking to
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people about alternatives to casket burial or flame cremation, I
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expected them to turn up their noses at the term
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human composting. But boy was I wrong. People say they
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want it, almost with a defiance, and then they laugh
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as if we're all together doing something that's still generally
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not accepted, which is true. Well, human composting is becoming
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more accepted. It's available legally in fourteen states, but residents
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of any state can send their body to a facility
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in a different state as long as they follow certain protocols.
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So let's hear from Mandy, who, in addition to working
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for Return Home, is a licensed funeral director and mbalmber
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for Minnesota and Wisconsin. We began our conversation with an
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explanation of how she got into the human composting business.
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So in twenty oh gosh, twenty eighteen, I was general
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manager for a funeral home in St. Paul, Minnesota, and
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my boss asked me to come up with something that
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would make us stand out from other funeral homes. And
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without even thinking, I said, let's offer natural options. It's
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twenty eighteen, it's getting big on the coast, and if
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something is big on the coast, it comes to the
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Midwest within a few years. And he said, go for it.
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Do all the planning, do all the research, present it
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to me, let's see what Let's see what comes of it.
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And so I did that, and one thing led to another.
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People were contacting us about natural burials and alkaline hydrolysis
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or water cremation. And then out of nowhere, I got
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a call from a gentleman named Steve who was in
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its early fifties and just found out he was terminal
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and he had been told no by three funeral homes
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when he asked for a natural burial. They just they
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didn't know enough about it. They didn't understand it. They
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said they needed a vault, blah blah blah, ABC, all
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the excuses, and I said, well, yeah, we can do this.
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Here's the list of cemeteries that allow it. Which one
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works best for you? Let's go into detail. And then
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he started laughing and he goes, well, what I really
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want is human composting, but that's not legal yet, nor
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will it be prior to me needing it. And as
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a funeral director and terrible at saying no to people,
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I just I can't do it. Very rarely do I
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do it. So I called Katie Houston, who's the head
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funeral director at return Home. I had known Katie from
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different conventions that we had been to together at for
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National Funeral Directors Association, and she just said, Mandy, we
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help people from all over the country all the time.
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We can make this happen for Steve. And within ten
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minutes I was talking to Steve again and telling him
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that this was going to happen. And that was in spring.
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That fall September he passed away and I actually flew
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with Steve out to Washington, and his partner and children
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sent me with a bunch of photos to decorate his vessel.
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I was the one return home allowed me to actually
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be the one that closed his vessel. I have video,
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I have pictures of me closing it with just tears
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running down my face. And as a funeral director, I've
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closed hundreds of caskets, just hundreds of caskets, and there's
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still moments where it's tough, especially as a mom. Anytime
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I closed caskin of a child or anything like that,
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it's tough. But there was something about this that was different.
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It just felt like it wasn't an end. It was
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something that he had wanted. It was something that was beginning,
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something new, and I knew how excited he was to
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be able to do this, and it just hit differently
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for me.
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First, I just have to say that I understand that
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you know, as a funeral director, you have encountered countless
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people in you know there are moments of pain in
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families as well as people who are dying. But I
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can easily understand why this one made a difference, because
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this was someone who wanted something that was not available,
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and there's a compulsion within people like you as funeral directors,
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people like me as death doulas like, we are motivated,
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We are inspired to do everything we can to help
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people at the end of their lives to make those
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final months, weeks, years, I mean months, weeks and days
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what they want. And so when you encounter something that
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isn't possible and then you find it, it's a double
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sense of accomplishment.
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Ye.
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Really, I would like you, if you don't mind, to
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talk a little bit about the importance in the industry
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to have somebody like what happened to you where it
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was a funeral. It was your boss who said, you
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know what, what more can we do? What can we
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do to reach out to more markets, What can we
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do to expand our market? What can we do differently
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that you know isn't available from other facilities. Can you
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talk a little bit more about the importance of that.
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Yeah. One of the sayings that I use all the
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time is add another tool to your tool belt. My
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boss at the time was very forward thinking. He very
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much was under the thought process that if it's something
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we can do to support the family, why don't we
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do it? And he was just a forward thinking being businessman.
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He was also a funeral director, but he was wonderful
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at making sure that families were receiving what they needed
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and in the best way, to the point where he
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was the first funeral home to have a full bar
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in our reception area because the family is I mean,
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you look at families and for a couple of reasons,
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you hear them after a visitation they say, you know,
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let's go down to the local bar. Why don't we
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all go out and have a drink for Brandpa, Well,
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do it there so everyone can be a part of it.
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So now you have a drink in your hand, and
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now you're there for half an hour and you're sharing
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stories and you're talking to more people, and that helps
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the family, but it also helps you as an individual
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with understanding the importance of sharing your stories about that
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person that you're there for. And so he was forward
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thinking to begin with. One of the NFDA conferences is
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that I went to that I was a part of
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with the Emerging Leaders program that they put on. They
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did a full two hour conversation about how to bring
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new ideas to your boss, and I was amazed at
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how many younger funeral directors were terrified to bring a
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new idea to their owner or to their boss because
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they were going to turn it down and how to
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present a new idea. And in my brain I was
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thinking that, like, oh, I have no issues. If I
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want to bring something up, I'll just do the research
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and I'll lay it in front of him and he'll
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look it over and he'll truly take it seriously and
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ask the questions. And nine chances out of ten, yeah,
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let's go for it. Let's give it a try. Why not?
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What's the harm in doing that? So I was amazed
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that there are so many owners that will just shut
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the door and not even give it a chance. And
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so I think it's important to do that because like terramation,
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this is being legalized by people. It's a grassroots movement.
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It's us as funeral directors that are playing ketchup and
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needing to understand what the people are wanting. Now, with
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that being said, I will never ever stop selling caskets
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and embalming. It's bad for our environment. No, absolutely not.
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Because people want it. We need to give them what
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they are wanting, what is going to help them grieve.
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And if that means that we need to learn something new,
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then we need to learn something new.
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When you you know, came up with this idea. It's
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one thing to convince your boss to be open to
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natural burials and acquamation and whatnot, but then finding cemeteries
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that do it. You know, it's just something that's outside
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the norm. They haven't reached that point yet where you're
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talking about. You know, why wouldn't you, you know, add
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another tool to your belt. You're providing another service for
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a family. Who are your customers? Like, there are all
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these arguments in favor of it, but it takes time
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for people to come around to just funeral directors.
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But yeah, well and let me kind of explain it
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in this sense as well. So Katie Houston told me
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the words that I absolutely love. She said, traditions are
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rules set by old dead people. Okay, and so traditions
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are important for some people. They want to continue that
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on down generation to generation to generation. But we are
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learning that there's a lot of pain and guilt from
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generation to generation. So there's a lot of people that
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want to take those traditions and turn them off and
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they want to start something new for their generation. And
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the generation is to come, and so we need.
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To sorry, it doesn't have to be around pain and guilt.
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It can just be.
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Anything I didn't and so no, that's okay. We need
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to understand that even when funeral homes we call it
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a traditional funeral, what is that We need to stop
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using certain terms to describe something that was fifty years ago.
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But you need to see what new traditions are out
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there as well and catch on before you are left
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in the back. I think that's really important to understand,
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especially as cemeteries, and if you flipped the coin and
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you really want to just talk business financials things like that.
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The Catholic cemeteries in the Minneapolis St. Paul, the Twin
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Cities area, they sell or a natural plot for almost
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double what a traditional plot is and they sold out.
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They have they have had to open up either three
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I think it's three new sections of forty plots because
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they sell out immediately. So if you want to talk
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the business financial side of it, people are willing to pay.
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If you if you look at what a five pound
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bag of apples is, the cost of a five pound
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bag of apples at Walmart and a five pound bag
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of apples at your local co op or even just
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going out to the apple orchard, we are willing to
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pay more for something that is natural. We need to
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understand that we're willing to do that in the death
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profession as well. Not that it's all about money by
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any means.
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Speaking of new alternatives, I mean that is why we're here. Yeah,
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tell me if you can about natural organic reduction. Before
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you do, though, I do have to tell you that
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it is. There's so much interest here, not option. We
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don't have a facility yet to do it. They have to,
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you know, ship the body to the West coast. I
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was surprised at how popular it was. I thought proclamation
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would be the thing that people would be interested in,
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but no, people are so fascinated and interested in this
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concept of human composting, and they love to talk about
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it like that. I'm like, you know, like, let's call
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it terrimation or nice basically composting.
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Right exactly. Well, let me let me kind of start
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with that. So the scientific term is natural organic reduction.
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That's a multiple. Most people aren't going to use that term.
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So that's when people started coming up with human composting.
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That can be a little rough around the edges. Not
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everyone likes that word composting. When you're thinking about your
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person and so like, well, for instance, we don't use
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the words human incineration. We use cremation. And so terra
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mation is truly a word, a term that return Home
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came up with terra meaning earth and mation meaning to become.
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So it's truly terra mation means becoming earth again, and
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so that's where we came up with that word. Completely.
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Return Home's word just a word that was created. Now,
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when it comes down to the fact that people are
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talking about, people are exciting Delaware. I believe they legalized
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it just over a year ago. I want to say
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it was May of twenty twenty four that they legalized it.
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And there's no facilities on the northeast quite yet. There
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is I want to say, four or five states now
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that have legalized it. New Jersey just legalized it maybe
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ten days ago or so. But just because a state
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has legalized it does not mean that they have written
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their full regulations surrounding it. So for instance, Minnesota, we
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legalized everything July first of twenty twenty four. The bill
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went through. Governor Walls signed off on it. It was
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legal July first, twenty twenty four, but we gave ourselves
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one full year to write regulations before a facility could
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even think about building, and so July first of twenty
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twenty five, regulations were fully written and out there for public.
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Georgia they legalized, I want to say, in like May
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of twenty twenty five. They wrote their regulations and were
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ready to go July first of twenty twenty five. So
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they give themselves like two months, okay, But then you
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look at California. They gave themselves five years to write regulations,
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so they legalized in twenty twenty two. They have until
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I want to say, January first of twenty twenty seven
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before regulations have to be written. So again, just because
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the state has legalized does not mean all rules, all
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regulations surrounding that law are out there. So that's why
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you right now you're seeing facilities only on the west coast.
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Minnesota did an excellent job at writing their regulations. Maybe
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a little biased because it's my home state and that
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helped a little bit. But we actually flew our regulators,
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our state health department, everybody out to Washington to sit
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down with Washington law makers, their regulators, their state health system. We,
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for lack of better words, we put them all in
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a room together and said, tell me the pros, the
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cons the things, you'd change everything else around it to
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find out what is necessary. How do we keep our
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funeral directors safe, how do we keep our Department of
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Health safe? And things going in the right direction, and
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our families wanting right now return home is moving east,
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but we're building in Minnesota. We are building there. We're
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hoping within one to two years will be fully open,
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ready to go with a facility. We are very interested
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in going south to Georgia, and we're very interested in
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moving northeast up into the Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey somewhere
285
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in there. But we want to spread across the United
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States so that truly it is a very viable option
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for everybody without having that expense of transportation.
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So can I follow up on that a little bit first? Yeah,
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I'm just curious. You said to make sure that it's
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safe for funeral directors and etc. And what are you
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talking about? A need for safety?
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So things like active tuberculosis and ebol and different different diseases,
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what can and cannot be taken care of with the
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terramation process. The inside of the vessel warms up with
295
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the microbial activity, but it doesn't warm up to the
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point of taking care of creons and so those diseases
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we can't we can't have terramation be a part of
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And on the flip side of that, after this soil
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is created, after this person is terramated, we test. We
300
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.680
have multiple tests that have to be done, everything from E.
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00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:46.720
Coli to heavy metals before this soil is released back
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00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.039
to a family to either have in their home in
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00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.960
houseplants or scattered in their yard. So there's a lot
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of safety on both ends of it. Safety for the
305
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:02.200
funeral director and the termation facility as to what we
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00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:06.200
can and cannot allow, and then safety for our environment
307
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.319
and our families and friends that are receiving this weil back.
308
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So kind of along those lines of safety when I say.
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That, it makes sense. Okay, thank you. Speaking of regulations,
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00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.960
Delaware has passed theirs. Uh, they were finished, I think June.
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I think they were released in June, maybe July. So
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I guess that's why you in part came and talked
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to the funeral director here, and I wonder, if you
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don't mind, you know, how was your speech? How was
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your presentation accepted? Did they seem interview very well?
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Yes, very well. I had a handful of funeral homeowners
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reach out to me afterwards and want to be able
318
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to better understand how to offer this, which is exciting
319
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to hear. I mean, like you men earlier, every funeral
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home can offer this. It's wanting to offer it. It
321
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:10.160
truly is wanting to offer it, being open to offering it.
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So the State Association was wonderful. It's it's a small association,
323
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but they were excited. They asked great questions, they reached
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out to me afterwards. We're having one on one meetings
325
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with a couple of quite a few funeral homes that
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are wanting just to be able to better understand it
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and get help on how to put it on their
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price list and just that general understanding. So they open
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arms accepted it and were very excited to have the
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presentation and the education.
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M M. That's great. Is there anything that you gave
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in your presentation that you would want the general public
333
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to know? You know, because you were speaking to funeral directors. Yeah,
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but you know they may have different things that they
335
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:04.160
would be interested in then the general public. So what
336
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would you want the general public to know about your business?
337
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And not to organication in general?
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We are transparent. We aren't going to say different things
339
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:19.079
to a funeral director versus a family that walks in.
340
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:22.880
And so the presentation that I gave to the State Association,
341
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I do the same presentation to families that reach out
342
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asking to learn more about it. Transparency is huge for
343
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the longest time, and there's a lot of things at
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funeral homes that it's not that families don't deserve to
345
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see it, it's maybe that they shouldn't see it the
346
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embalming process. I can't imagine wanting to see that take
347
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place for my own person unless I'm a funeral director
348
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and it's it's part of what I do. I wouldn't
349
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want to see that for my person. And so there's
350
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:58.440
a lot of things at funeral homes that are sometimes
351
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behind closed doors. Return home. We don't need to have
352
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.960
things behind closed doors. There's nothing about that. And so
353
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.519
we are transparent from day one all the way through
354
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the end. If a family wants to be present for
355
00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:18.400
us laying a person into their vessel, come on in,
356
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be a part of it. Help us do that. If
357
00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:23.599
it's your child and you're the only one that has
358
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:27.680
ever carried your child, I don't need to be the
359
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.480
one placing your child into the vessel that's you. You
360
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.640
can do that. If you want to dress your mother,
361
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if you want to give her that last bath, you
362
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go ahead, hands on. And so there's nothing that's different
363
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.079
about what I explain to funeral dejectors than what I
364
00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:46.839
do to our general public. And it's pretty much truly
365
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:50.279
just knowledge. What is terramation, What is it that takes place?
366
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:54.119
What happens to the bones, what happens to my metal
367
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:58.799
hip or my pacemaker? How do you transport someone from
368
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.200
Delaware to one Washington. So we just go over all
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00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.680
of those things, and I am open to doing that
370
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:10.319
presentation with anyone. There is not a single part of
371
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:13.079
return home that you can't be a part of. That
372
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:17.599
you can't see you at any given time. You walk
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00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.319
into our facility and you can go sit next to
374
00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:24.119
your person's vessel. And so we commonly have people walking
375
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:29.319
throughout our facility. We have people that come in because
376
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:31.039
they want a pre planned but they want to see
377
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.680
what's going on before they put money into a policy
378
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:37.319
to be able to do this. We have funeral homes
379
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.039
that fly to us that they want to see everything
380
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:41.759
that's taking place before they offer it.
381
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:46.160
What would be your sales pitch to somebody to choose
382
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:47.920
your company over another one.
383
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:53.519
Yeah. Honestly, they need to be comfortable. So I will
384
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.640
give them all of our information and then I tell
385
00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.240
them you have time, even if this is imminent, you
386
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:05.119
have time contact all the other facilities. I don't want
387
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:08.200
to make a dollar off of someone if they're not
388
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:12.759
comfortable being with us. That's like I said, this is
389
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:16.039
a grass Roads movement. We're following what the people are wanting.
390
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.480
And when people want to be hands on, they want
391
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.799
to come in at four o'clock to just sit next
392
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.200
to their person's vessel. Yeah, you can do that, and
393
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.440
so that is truly our biggest thing. I can get
394
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:33.680
into pricing, you know, that's just something that's very black
395
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:37.839
and white when it comes to different facilities. But people
396
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.759
aren't choosing terramation based on the price. You know, as
397
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:46.200
funeral directors, we truly thought people were choosing cremation because
398
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.640
it was less expensive. They were choosing cremation because it's
399
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.480
the only other option, and they knew one hundred percent
400
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:57.440
they didn't want to be in burial. Like my parents,
401
00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.599
for instance, my mom is like, nope, do not put
402
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.519
me in a casket. Do not put me underground. That's terrifying.
403
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:06.759
You know, I don't want that. And so she chows
404
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:10.880
cremation based on that, not because of the cost. It
405
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.079
was just the only other option. And so we're seeing
406
00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:17.079
that a lot of people are willing to spend a
407
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:22.519
lot more just to have another option. And so I
408
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.160
don't ever use cost as a thing that makes us
409
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.160
different from the other facilities. That's an easy one. We're
410
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:32.039
in the middle. There's people more expensive, if there's people
411
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:35.720
less expensive. That's not what it's about. Feel comfortable with
412
00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:38.559
who you're choosing, make sure that you can get a
413
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:40.759
hold of them and they answer their phones at any
414
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.000
given time, and make sure that it's what you are wanting.
415
00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:53.000
And what about after somebody is has become soil? You know,
416
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.119
one of the issues with not organic reduction is that
417
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.799
there's a lot of soil that remains. And so for
418
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.000
some people, especially if they are not in that area,
419
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.440
you know, they get their vessels and there's a certain
420
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:09.160
amount of soil that is sent to the family members,
421
00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:13.559
but then there's other there's a lot of soil left over.
422
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:19.640
Does your company have a particular area that they like
423
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:22.519
to send the soil to Is it a forest, is
424
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.759
it another cemetery, is it a natural cemetery, a conservation cemetery?
425
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:30.880
What what kind of things does your company do with
426
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.400
that soil that comes out of the vessels.
427
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:38.720
Yeah, so our end result, our soil is about one
428
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.559
cubic yard for between two hundred to two hundred and
429
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.960
fifty pounds of soil. Each facility is different again in
430
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:51.119
that in what the soil is that's created. What we
431
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:55.799
find amazing is that seventy percent of our families, no
432
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.400
matter where they are, seventy percent of our families want
433
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.519
that full amount of soil. Yeah, even all the way
434
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.720
across the country. People want to back that is their person.
435
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.960
They want all of their person back. But when a
436
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.599
family can't take all or any of the soil back
437
00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:18.319
with them. We have an eight acre area that we
438
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:22.319
go to. It's in Kent, Washington right now, and we
439
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:25.319
scatter our We spread the soil there at no cost.
440
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.839
It is always going to be a green space. It
441
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:33.200
will never be built upon. There is a walking trail
442
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.920
that goes all the way around that area and it
443
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.200
is fenced off because unlike a cemetery, so if you
444
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:46.039
walk through a cemetery. You aren't actually walking on a person.
445
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:49.000
You're walking on the ground. The person is under the ground.
446
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:56.160
This you're walking on somebody. That soil is somebody's person.
447
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.359
And so we do have this eight acres fenced off
448
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.920
so that people aren't just walking through it. But there's
449
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.279
the walking trail that goes all the way around it,
450
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.680
a paved walking trail, and there's a couple of benches
451
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:11.799
that just say for those who have returned home. And
452
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.400
so it's the perfect amount that it takes about forty
453
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:18.440
five minutes to walk all the way around this area.
454
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.599
It's the perfect amount when people want to just come out,
455
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:25.400
they can just walk around it, they can just sit,
456
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:28.200
they can be with nature. Like I said, it's always
457
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.880
going to be a green space, never be built upon
458
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.480
the We will do the same exact thing in Minnesota,
459
00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:37.680
except it's going to be about ten acres instead of eight.
460
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:43.799
It's when we found out that seventy percent of people
461
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:47.079
are wanting all of the soil back, we realize that
462
00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:50.039
it's going to take a while before we need more acreage.
463
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.000
We thought that we were going to be taking a
464
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.519
lot more soil quite often out to this area. But
465
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:02.799
people have ideas of what they're wanting. And it's crazy
466
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:04.880
to me as a funeral dejector who has met with
467
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:09.359
hundreds of families, never ever have I heard a family
468
00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:11.960
or a person come into pre plan and they'll be like,
469
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:15.240
oh my gosh, I'm so excited for cremation. I can't
470
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:17.559
wait to be cremated. It's going to be great. At
471
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:22.559
you know, we have people doing that for terramation and
472
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:27.200
talking about everything that they want their family their friends
473
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:29.759
to do with the soil, what kind of trees they
474
00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:33.079
want planted, what what kind of flowers. I want to
475
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.519
make sure that there's flowers that pollinators come around, because
476
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:41.279
you know, my daughter loves bees, and so when she
477
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:45.000
passed away, we're going to spread out all of the
478
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:50.440
soil with feeds so that it's all pollinators that come
479
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:55.000
to this area. And so we hear people excited about this,
480
00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:00.000
and that's not something that you hear about in other areas.
481
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:04.640
So people want this soil back, they want all of
482
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:09.160
their person back, and and so that's we hear amazing
483
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:13.519
stories of how funeral homes are helping with that process. There.
484
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.519
You know, we do what we call a laying in
485
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.440
ceremony when we place the person into the vessel, and
486
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.079
funeral homes are doing what they're calling laying out ceremonies
487
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.599
where they will bring the soil. Once it's returned to
488
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.680
the funeral home, they'll bring the soil to the family
489
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.200
farm and help them scatter it or spread it. They
490
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.319
will take, you know, twenty five pounds of that soil
491
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:40.920
and help the family plant a tree. You know, So
492
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:45.559
it might not be that traditional funeral at the funeral home,
493
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:51.359
but you're still doing a service for this family. One
494
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:53.880
of my very favorites is one of the first people
495
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:59.240
that I personally help serve. They brought back about twenty
496
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:02.799
five pounds of the two hundred and fifty pounds of soil,
497
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:07.319
and they separated it into one hundred tiny little keepsake
498
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.680
pouches with a tree sapling in each one of them.
499
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:15.079
And so this person is now a hundred trees across
500
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:18.680
the United States, and every once in a while that
501
00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:24.000
that spouse receives a picture of their tree and how
502
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.519
it's doing, or at Christmas tree time they hang one
503
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.759
tiny little ornament on it. And instead of having to
504
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:35.160
go back to one cemetery and fly back to Minnesota
505
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:39.240
to go and visit their friend. He's in a hundred
506
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:43.279
different places creating new life for this person to help
507
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:48.599
care for and tender. So we hear amazing stories about
508
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:52.599
what people are doing with this, and we tell cemeteries
509
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:56.079
all the time. You can do this, you know, plant
510
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.200
an amazing tree line across that one side of your
511
00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:04.359
cemetery maybe doesn't look so pretty, you know. Allow families
512
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:08.880
to take their soil and plant a beautiful evergreen tree,
513
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:12.799
and then at Christmas time or whatever they believe it,
514
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.640
they can come out and they can decorate that tree
515
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.119
or plant a maple tree, and the beautiful colors come
516
00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:25.480
fall time. Allow this to help make your cemetery beautiful.
517
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:27.000
Why not?
518
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:32.200
Why not? I mean that's that goes to what I
519
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.480
hear all the time when I'm talking to people. I
520
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:36.799
think I mentioned this to you in an email as well,
521
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.119
that I would estimate that about seventy percent of the
522
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:44.000
people who I talk to about body disposition tell me
523
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:47.279
that they want to become a tree. And you know,
524
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:51.720
natural organic production, as you have just so eloquently expressed,
525
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:57.160
is a way to not just become a tree, but
526
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:04.480
to become a forest many trees, to grow life, to
527
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:09.760
be with multiple family members in their lives without them
528
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.360
having to come to a cemetery, you know, far like
529
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.599
you said, far away to visit a marker. I love cemeteries,
530
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:20.800
I love markers. Yeah, I'm not putting down any cemetery
531
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:24.920
that is a traditional cemetery, but it is another option
532
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:29.079
that people are starting to demand, and the two go
533
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:32.280
hand in hand because, like you said, it is a
534
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:39.480
way of potentially beautifying our existing cemeteries as well. Yeah.
535
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.159
Yeah, absolutely. And there is a place I'm currently working
536
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:50.880
with out of Colorado that they accept the output from
537
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:55.559
ukline hydrolysis, that water, the output from it. They accept
538
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:59.559
it at their sanctuary, their wild animal sanctuary to help
539
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:04.199
grow different areas of the sanctuary that maybe plants wouldn't
540
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:09.920
grow in a normal Colorado habitat. So they accept all
541
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.840
of this Elkland hydrolysis, all of all of the outputs.
542
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:19.360
They're now working on accepting soil from terramation and being
543
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:24.159
able to really make their area green because cemeteries, who
544
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:27.239
there's there's quite a few cemeteries that will take that
545
00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:31.320
full amount of soil and do burial, especially within our
546
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:36.280
Jewish community. They're accepting of terramation, but they want burial
547
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.719
to take place. Great, that's fine, and so cemeteries are
548
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:44.159
taking this soil and they're just placing it into the grave,
549
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:48.840
and it's it's interesting. So there's quite a few cultures
550
00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:52.239
that will want to help take a shovel and cover
551
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:57.679
a their their person in the grave, whether it's a casket, revolts,
552
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.800
a shrouded body, whatever it may be. They want to
553
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.000
be the ones that fill the grave. And so with
554
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:07.039
termation they're able to each take a pouch of the
555
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.079
soil and put it into the grave, and they can
556
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.000
even just empty it into the grave. But those cemeteries,
557
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:18.519
without a doubt, over the next year, we get a
558
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:22.840
picture from that cemetery because that plot is greener and
559
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:27.280
thicker with grass than any other plot in their cemetery
560
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:30.559
because of all the nutrients that are below ground and
561
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:36.679
that are helping grow that grass. So we get pictures
562
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:40.719
quite often from cemeteries who allow the burial of the soil.
563
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:46.400
And again going back to finances, you can have the
564
00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:50.480
same exact pricing for opening and closing of a grave.
565
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.239
You just don't need a vault. But usually, I mean
566
00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:57.039
some cemeteries sell vaults, but that's usually coming from the
567
00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:02.599
funeral home. But why wouldn't a cemetery if one spouse
568
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:05.760
is buried already and they already have that other plot.
569
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.880
Why does it matter if it's an urn, if it's
570
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:16.400
a casket, if it's soil, you have that same cost
571
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:21.320
of opening and closing. Does it really matter what form
572
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.000
the person's body is in when it's put into that grave.
573
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:30.679
Well, it should be determined by the family. There should
574
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:37.000
be multiple options. And I mean, I'm I'm critical to
575
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:42.239
be honest of cemeteries that insist on vaults specifically for
576
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:46.800
their landscaping budget, because I think that that excludes a
577
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.599
lot of people who well, first of all, it adds
578
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:53.599
to the cost, which is pretty expensive, and it excludes
579
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:56.519
a lot of people who you know, want natural burials
580
00:37:56.599 --> 00:38:00.480
or want you know, something something alternative like you've just
581
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:05.079
de cribed. So yeah, I think that it will change.
582
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:09.440
I think, like you said, natural organic reduction, acquamation, all
583
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:15.800
of these things are grassroots driven. There are funeral directors
584
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:20.719
who understand this and who have the vision to provide it,
585
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.119
and the others will follow. And you know, we started
586
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:27.360
at some point in this conversation, you know, you talked
587
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.880
about cremation and The thing about cremation is that a
588
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:36.400
lot of funeral directors and funeral homes had to catch
589
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.599
up because it was only when they realized that their
590
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:45.119
profits were decreasing drastically because so many people were asking
591
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:48.199
for cremations and they weren't prepared for that. Then they
592
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:53.719
started purchasing the materials for cremations and cemetery. They started
593
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.360
offering cremation burials. So it will come to pass. It's
594
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.599
just a matter I guess of you know, time, and
595
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:04.199
there will be leaders like yourself and your company, and
596
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:07.760
there will be others that will come along eventually.
597
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:13.760
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's again I always say, just add
598
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:17.159
another tool to your tool belt. You can't build a
599
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:22.159
strong business with only a hammer. Keep adding those tools
600
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:25.519
as people are providing them for you, don't turn them away.
601
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:29.599
It doesn't cost you a single penny to offer another
602
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:34.320
form of disposition. It takes your time to sit and
603
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:39.119
listen to me for forty five minutes. That's it. That's
604
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:41.079
all it takes to be able to offer it. I
605
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:45.239
mean I even send you, I send funeral homes general
606
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:48.719
priceless options. I mean you could almost copy and paste
607
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:52.199
it for your own funeral home. I send them pamphlets.
608
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:56.320
I send them little soil samples of piggy soil, not
609
00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:58.440
human soil, but so that they can actually see what
610
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:04.360
it looks like. Truly, I just want this to be
611
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:09.800
an option for everyone. And I understand that transportation is tough,
612
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:17.639
but even with transportation from Delaware, it's still less expensive
613
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:24.280
than a casketed funeral. People are willing to spend money
614
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.880
if it's something that they want, and if we're listening
615
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:34.199
to our families, this is something they want, so we'll
616
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.880
think there's my sales pitch to funeral homes is just
617
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:39.599
listen to what our families are wanting.
618
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:46.400
I wholeheartedly agree. So on that note, I will thank
619
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:51.440
you profusely for taking all of this time to discuss
620
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:56.079
this subject with us. As you know, I'm on board,
621
00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:58.519
and then there are so many Delawareans who are on board.
622
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:02.880
So I really look forward to seeing how this plays
623
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.239
out here in Delaware and how it hopefully impacts your
624
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:12.599
company in a strong way. And I'll reiterate come to Delaware.
625
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:17.039
Yes, I mean, I want to say there's a couple
626
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:20.320
of other state associations that are reaching out in hopes
627
00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:23.440
to at least have a presentation at their conference, their
628
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:28.039
yearly conference, or their convention. So the demand for the
629
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:32.199
education is out there, and I think once funeral homes
630
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:36.119
are really backing this option, it's going to become more
631
00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:38.719
prevalent for the people that we're serving, the families that
632
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:45.239
we're serving. So again, knowledge is power, Accepting of that
633
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:48.000
knowledge is another thing. So we'll get there.
634
00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:51.639
We'll get there. Thank you so much. I really appreciate
635
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:53.000
your talking with us.
636
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:55.519
Absolutely absolutely, thank you, Linda.
637
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.760
I feel a little as if I'm a sales rep
638
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:05.599
for the process of human composting because this is the
639
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:10.000
third episode that touches on this subject. I interviewed Chris Lawrence,
640
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:12.440
who has chosen this option for himself when it is
641
00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:16.599
his time. I've had an interview with Ferry's Funeral Home
642
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:20.400
that's one of those forward thinking places that Mandy spoke about.
643
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:23.880
And now with a rep from a facility that turns
644
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:27.760
our organics into soil, I swear this is not the
645
00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:33.719
natural organics reduction podcast, so going forward there will be
646
00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:39.079
other things. And also a different episode featured aquamation for pets.
647
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:43.800
It's a gentler and more environmentally friendly way of body
648
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:48.079
disposition than flame cremation. That isn't available yet for people,
649
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:51.960
but it should be. I have many more episodes planned
650
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:55.440
in the coming months, some with experts like Mandy, some
651
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:58.800
man on the street discussions, and I'm going to start
652
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:01.760
talking about my own speriences in this industry as a
653
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:04.880
death Dola. So I hope you will like this podcast
654
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:08.199
and follow it so you don't miss any future episodes.
655
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:13.119
Until next time, keep the conversation going and don't be
656
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:19.800
afraid to talk death Delaware