Jason: hi everyone. My name is Jason Vanderbreak. welcome to Stand Out, the Elite Prep College Admissions podcast. Stephanie, I don't even know if you knew that was the name of our podcast, but you our podcast is called Stand
Ms. Handley: I didn't. I'm learning so many things.
Jason: Out. so I am here today with the wonderful Stephanie Handley, who is The AP Capstone instructor for Elite Open School. and we we're here to answer your questions about AP Capstone, what it's all about, how it works, who it's for, how hard it is, how it will might help you on a college application, all that sort of stuff. so Stephanie, How long have you been teaching A P capstone?
Ms. Handley: Good question. So I've been teaching in general for almost 20 years now, which is
Jason: wow.
Ms. Handley: makes me feel old. but I taught at a public high
Jason: Wonderful.
Ms. Handley: school, taught English for Almost 15 years, AP lit for 14 of them. and then I've been at Elite since about 202 summer 2022. and then we started fall of 2023, the capstone program at Elite. So this will be my fourth year with the program. so I'm I'm really excited. I love it. It's it's so much fun to teach. It's a really cool program. So I'm I'm looking forward to starting with a new batch of students.
Jason: Fantastic. Great. let's assume I don't know anything about about AP Capstone. I have heard the word floating around the college admissions sort of atmosphere. but w can you give us a kind of overview of what even is AP capstone? I've heard of I've heard of AP chemistry, I've heard of A P U S history. So it sounds like AP Capstone is just another AP course. Is is that right?
Ms. Handley: yes and no.
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: so it is an A P course. You take the course during a school year. Well, it's two courses actually, and you take the course and you get an exam score. So in that sense Yes, it is another AP class, but it's it's really unique compared to the other AP courses. So AP Capstone actually refers to a program rather than a course. So there are two courses that make up the program, AP Seminar and AP Research. I would argue that in a lot of ways, AP Seminar is really like a foundational course that I think prepares you to do well in other AP courses, because you're Learning how to engage with professional texts and how to write arguments, and so you're developing a lot of the skills that I recognize from the AP English and History curriculum as well. AP research, I think, was designed to kind of mimic the IB programs, kind of like a capstone project. And
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: so in AP research, students actually design and carry out their own research project over the course of a school year. So in AP seminar, students are doing what they're what they're used to, where maybe they're writing a research an argument and they're using professional research papers as sources. That's kind of our main focus. In AP research, they're writing one of those professional research papers. And so they're actually collecting data, they are like analyzing their data, putting it in conversation with other sources and so the college board says that's like upper level graduate work. I got a masters and never did a full research project. So honestly like it's kind of graduate level work that I think they're doing.
Jason: Yeah, yeah.
Ms. Handley: Possibly that depends on the field a little bit. But So when
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: students do both of those programs, if they earn a score of three or higher, they earn what's called the AP research certificate or AP seminar and research certificate. If they go on to take another four AP exams and pass with a score of three or higher, then they earn what's called the AP Capstone Diploma, which is
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: kind of like the college board's I don't know if it's the highest distinction. I don't know where that ranks with like the AP scholar with merit and this and that, but it is a really
Jason: Sure. Yeah, yeah.
Ms. Handley: high distinction from the college board that appears on their score reports and that they can like brag about to colleges and that kind of thing.
Jason: Right, right. So so if if a sort of standard AP course like, you know, chemistry or US history is is good, you know, the AP capstone diploma would kind of be like an even higher level of achievement as a as
Ms. Handley: Yeah, 'cause it shows that like not only have you done four or more, well, really six AP classes, but two of them are really a level of research that goes beyond the expectations of what you do in a lot of your other AP classes. And so it's kind of like not only can I show expertise in these four subjects, but also I can kind of pull things together from a variety of topics and
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: Make arguments and presentations.
Jason: Yes. Great. Okay. So who is this for? who can can any high school student take it or what what year should you be in if you're interested in these these courses or this this full diploma?
Ms. Handley: Great question. So the program is designed to be for 10th and 11th graders. the college board does not recommend that freshmen take it just because they are still adjusting to high school. There there may be content that they're not quite ready for. I will say we have had a couple of freshmen go through the program and do fine. So I think it definitely you know your own self, your student the best. but the
Jason: Sure. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: program is designed for 10th graders. some schools actually their English 10 is A P seminar. So they've combined those programs together. that's not what we do at Elite Open School. We treat it as an elective but there are some schools where you may see that like every every 10th grader takes A P seminar as their English class or every honors student probably, probably not every sophomore. And then juniors take AP research. We we recommend that, I don't know, progression at Elite because then when you're applying for colleges, you can say, I already earned my AP capstone diploma, and you can talk
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: about your research paper in your application and everything. But there's certainly still value in doing the program as a junior and senior. Like that is
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: still an option. It's totally fine to say this is in process. It's just like taking an AP course senior year, you would still send the score report at the end of the year. So still value as a junior senior, but recommended for sophomores and juniors.
Jason: Right. Okay, terrific.
Ms. Handley: And then in terms of the kind of student, I think this is a perfect class for students who are super curious. Like if you get to pick your own topics to explore. it's not like regular classes where your teacher says, here's your prompt, right about this topic. instead,
Jason: huh.
Ms. Handley: they get to decide, I want to write about this, I want to learn about this, and so they can study something that is like what they maybe want to major in, they can just do something fun. And interesting and pursue a hobby. but it's a really like open-ended class. And so I think for
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: students who are curious, maybe more independent than school sometimes allows them to be, it's a good class for them.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: definitely not a great class if you are not good with time management. it is definitely a class where you have to stay on top of things more, and then. It's one of those where you don't have to be like the best English student ever, but there is college-level reading and writing. Like you're reading professional research papers, and so that is something to keep in mind as well.
Jason: Okay. So so reading and writing are central to this.
Ms. Handley: Wow.
Jason: we wouldn't describe AP Capstone or its constituent courses, seminar and research as English courses, right? Okay.
Ms. Handley: Correct. And actually they're not even siloed in any single discipline. So students
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: can so I think I know when I taught AP Lit, students would dread it because it's like, well, I'm a Calc student, or I'm, you know, I like math and science. Where AP seminar and AP research really can apply to any discipline. So for AP research, I've had students do a lot of psychology type projects.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: you can do a traditional science project, you can do engineering projects. I haven't seen a heavy like English one yet, but you can. You can
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: do a visual performing arts project. So I've seen sample papers where I think a student did the lighting design for their school's production of Mamma Mia, but it was like according to the like how that is carried out in a professional like lighting design academic community context. So literally any subject that you're interested in, you can
Jason: wow.
Ms. Handley: do a project relating to that. I get to learn alongside you what research looks like in that field. I had a student this year who designed a mathematical model. So we had to do a lot of figuring out how I don't know how to do math research because I'm an English teacher who majored in psych,
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: you know. And so we had to figure out like what does that look like? how do you report that information? and so any subject students are interested in, they can study in these courses. So it's not like they have to say, Well, I'm a science person, I'm a computer person. great like
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: you're learning the kind of things you'll do in college with that field.
Jason: Yeah. That sounds really exciting. And I see why you said it takes a curious student, you know, someone
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: with a lot of curiosity or who wants to really dig into something they're they're interested in or passionate about, or maybe develop a passion, you know.
Ms. Handley: Yeah, and I it's a cool way to explore too, so you can
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: what's cool is I've had a lot of students not realize all the options kind of of college majors. Like I had a student this
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: year wanted to analyze mukbang videos on YouTube, which is like videos where you watch people eat food. And
Jason: Okay. Yeah. Yes.
Ms. Handley: I had never heard of them before this year, so I learned, but she didn't know that there's like a whole branch of like cultural studies where you actually like can study YouTube and like how people respond to YouTube and how algorithms work. Like it like students don't think of that because it's not a high school course, but like she was excited to learn that that's a whole field that has research and like you can dig into that. I had another student do something with sourdough starters and so she didn't know that like kitchen science is a whole like line of academic research where it's not just biology, but how that applies to cooking and recipes, not just
Jason: what?
Ms. Handley: like the I don't know, prep cycle It's awesome.
Jason: That is fascinating. Wow. Okay, well, so in terms of in terms of how this might help a student you know on a who is college bound and looking you know, maybe looking at competitive schools, any anything from, you know, the UC schools to Ivy Leagues or or whatever, or if they you know are just curious and want to excel you know no matter where they end up going.
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: but I would imagine that this is not just a hey I I took two cool classes those are are on my transcript. This is like a real way to to develop that curiosity that
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: college admissions officers are looking for you know, in your in your essays, in your interviews, in all that stuff. So yeah, can you can you talk about that or is that something you've seen? great.
Ms. Handley: Gosh, I have like so many things to say there. Yes. one is I mean, the courses are known for being rigorous. So just having them on the transcript, great. P like colleges know what that means. They know that the program is rare, that not all students take it, and not all students earn the distinction. So just saying you have it is a bonus right there. I'm gonna add to that a lot of things though. I think What I think is probably the most valuable, I don't know if students will agree with this, because I know the emphasis is on getting into college, but as a teacher, what I think is most valuable is you're actually learning the kind of research that you will do in college. So as a former English teacher, we don't have time to do a lot of research papers. And when we do research papers, it really doesn't look like the kind of research you do in college because there's just not time to focus on. that with everything else. And so this is a class where like you're not doing all the other stuff relating to English. You're just learning how to do research. And for a year you're learning how to gather sources and write about them. And then for a year you're learning how to carry out the research process. And so it's just a skill that we practice multiple times and that no matter what you study in college, you're gonna have to do. So that's how college works. You go, well, I'm You and I went to the library and found journals and research articles and like wrote our paper about them. They just use the online database, so it's easier from their dorm room. But this is every class you take in college, you're writing at least one, if not two papers where you're having to find these sources and make an argument. So these are skills that just you need to do well in college and that high school probably isn't gonna prepare you for.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: So there's that. You are definitely, I think, developing a sense of intellectual passion. I know a lot of the elite school applications ask you to talk about an intellectual passion. And in my experience, students have a hard time with that because they're like, Well, I like math because I'm good at it. But like they don't have the language to say, this one really niche topic I find fascinating because blah blah blah blah blah. Well, you're taking Two years where you actually probably deep dive three or four really niche topics. And so you can kind of nerd out about something in a way that a lot of high school students just don't have the vocabulary for.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: there's a huge presentation component of the course. So you're developing those communication skills, so writing skills, but also oral skills, teamwork skills. And then you can also use it as a springboard for other things in your college application. So I have a number of students who I wrote ref or letters of recommendation for their summer research programs, just based on their participation in the class. I have had students publish in journals, which that is a common thing for AP. There's high school journals that frequently publish AP research papers, but you can also my student was published in a a regular journal. so that is
Jason: Wow. Wow.
Ms. Handley: something that then you can put on your resume.
Jason: Awesome.
Ms. Handley: you can it might make like connections with other like mentors. So I had a student this year who worked with a professor from in the field of media literacy. And then she did her research project on that, but then also through another program she's involved in, she has a bill relating to media literacy on the floor to be voted on in the California Senate, House Congress, ha whatever whatever you call it.
Jason: my goodness.
Ms. Handley: so that's quite a package of of things.
Jason: Wow,
Ms. Handley: I had a student enter their work in a competition, like a Can Canada Science Fair competition. I don't remember what he replaced, but he did really well. and so it really just kind of opens the door for other research-related opportunities or to put together like a compelling package for admissions where it's like I learned a lot about this and then I did this related to it. And so it just I think can really be a stepping stone. into other things that will benefit your college application.
Jason: Yeah, wow, incredible. it sounds like it's your your research component, your your rigorous course component, your intellectual curiosity, y all of that even sort of your essay inspiration, your college essay inspiration
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: and coaching and stuff all sort of rolled into one. So yeah.
Ms. Handley: Yeah. Become really like passionate about the program through teaching. It was terrifying the first year of each class because it's really
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: overwhelming to see not only here's all the stuff you need to cover, but also I'm used to being a very like organized control control teacher. and there's only so much I can control when students are researching all individual topics and it's it's very open-ended and research is messy, but now it's it's so much. Fun, it's so exciting to see what they come up with, and then I love watching watching students just grow in like human ways as well, like
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: just their confidence in how they they ha interact with adults. Like I had a student who was horrified and shocked that she left a message at a doctor's office and they hadn't called her back yet. And I said, yeah, adults are super annoying. you're gonna
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: have to email six times before you get a response.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: That's just normal. And I've had students who were like, Miss Hamley, none of the students will return my surveys. Like, right, welcome to my life and you know
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: And then I had a student who was so nervous to talk to managers at pet stores that she like called a pet store in New York, even though she lives in California, just to practice in front of someone who would never never see her again and possibly humiliate her. of like real world skills. And I think so many of them, it can be a really frustrating class because Research is messy. Like you have this idea of something you want to do and rarely does it go according to the plan you come up with in October and you have to problem solve along the way. Like you have to like this is due in two months, so we gotta figure out something to be able to finish it. And I am not allowed to tell students like this is how you should fix it. It's more of a coaching kind of a thing, which is frustrating for them. They want me to say, do XYZ and it'll be fine.
Jason: Here is what you do.
Ms. Handley: But they grow so much because of it of just having to like problem solve and they're so proud of themselves at the end, which I think is really cool.
Jason: Wow, beautiful. that's the the the real learning, the the the the
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: soft skills and the research skills and the the grit like as college admissions people always talk about. that's
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: that's awesome. So okay, so let's say I'm a student considering, you know, enrolling in the whole program or do you just enroll a course at a time? Is that sort of like A P seminar? Correct.
Ms. Handley: One course at a time. Yeah, you have to take them separately. So you can't take them at the same time or out of order. You have to do seminar first. And you have to do each one over the course of a school year. Like these are not classes you could do accelerated and independent because of the research component and both of the classes, AP seminar, you do half your test during the school year. They call them performance tasks. And so by the time you It for your exam in May, you've already submitted 55% of your exam. And then AP research,
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: there is no end-of-course exam. You're just doing it during the school year. And so
Jason: interesting. Okay.
Ms. Handley: because of like the teacher checkpoint components and things like that, it's not a class that you could just do independently in an accelerated fashion. So definitely it's a
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: it's a two-year program, but you enroll one year at a time.
Jason: Yes, okay. So there there are assessments, but you know, unlike pretty much I guess all of the other AP courses, it's not the exam happens, you know, at the end separately. it this is sort of integrated. Okay.
Ms. Handley: Well, AP Center does have an exam. It's a short exam. So they it's two hours. They only have free response questions. There's no multiple choice. and
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: really it's just a timed version of what they've been doing all year. It's not something that they need to take like review sessions for and that kind of thing, 'cause it's not
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: content. It's just practicing what they've done all year. but then yeah, AP research, they're done April thirtieth, which they love because then they can focus
Jason: yeah.
Ms. Handley: on other A P exams. During
Jason: that's a selling point right there to to take the the program. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: I know, they love it.
Jason: So so okay, let's say I am a student considering enrolling in A P seminar d in September this podcast
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: is being recorded on August fourth. But do I need to have my research topic picked out, you know, all like ready to go before I enroll in AP seminar.
Ms. Handley: Definitely not. Definitely not for AP seminar. AP seminar, you can come in blank slate. I'm gonna walk you through the whole process of everything you need. my students
Jason: great, okay.
Ms. Handley: who are coming from seminar to research, I give them a summer assignment to kind of start thinking about topics they might be interested in because we do have to decide pretty fast once the school year starts. because
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: they it's hard to move forward if you don't have any t any idea what you're going to research. and
Jason: Right. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: we have some students who take seminar at their own school and then they do research with us. I would say in that
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: case it helps to have a vague idea of what you might be interested in. but you could come
Jason: Right. Yep. Right. it's built to help you figure it out,
Ms. Handley: Yes. research, they're they have to make some decisions early just because we have to start doing things, but there's a lot of wiggle room in those early weeks where they can change direction if they need to and like it's it it's not like you're locked in week one to a very specific topic. Yeah.
Jason: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very cool. This sounds incredibly exciting. Yeah. Wow. I love
Ms. Handley: It's so cool. I wish I took it in school. I know. It's really fun.
Jason: it. you teach this program, AP seminar and AP research at Elite Open School. and then you
Ms. Handley: Yes.
Jason: also mentioned, you know, students taking one or both courses at their own high school. So how does
Ms. Handley: Wax.
Jason: this w work? How does AP capstone work? Can can everybody take it at their own high school or yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
Ms. Handley: Good question. unfortunately there are a lot of high schools that don't offer the program. fifteen percent of high schools even offer A P capstone from the school's perspective. It's there are
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: a lot of challenges involved with it. so not all schools offer it. There are also a lot of schools that offer seminar but not research. So a lot of students will do seminar, but then they can't finish the diploma program because they don't have research. so
Jason: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: if you have a school that offers it, that's fantastic, especially because
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: I think when you're going to that classroom every single day, like that's certainly helpful to be able to interact face to face and to, you know, have kind of an adult more Like accessible to you throughout the process. But what I love about Elite Open School is that because we run our program entirely online, we not only can say you're one of those students who doesn't have access to the program or you only have seminar but not research, you could come take it with us and we can help you to finish the program. Or just you know, maybe it's not offered at your school. You could come take it with us. us as a part-time student. You don't have to be like a full-time student with us. You could just take those two courses.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: we're an accredited high school, so you get a transcript that you can submit to colleges. and so I've had I've had four students in the past finish AP research with us. I've got at least one already, maybe two, I think coming this year who've already reached out that they're looking for a place to finish. I also had some students take seminar with me because it just conflicted with their schedule. And then they got to do research at their home school, which was great for them as well.
Jason: okay. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: I love that we have this this flexible program that allows students to take advantage of a really amazing program that not all schools. Are able to offer. So
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: I I I love that we can offer that. We do it in the evenings so students can do it alongside their other things. We've had students from all over the world. So we most of our students are from California. We have a we've had a number of students from Canada. I've had one from Japan. I had an American living in Australia this past year, and then we've had a handful from the East Coast. So that we're you're not limited by location, which is kind of cool.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: So that's really neat. And then because we have the in-person branches, they can get support there as well. So it's a really unique kind of setting that is not available in all places. but
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: we I also work really hard to keep it at a five-hour a week time commitment so that if
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: were say you're going to regular school and you have six classes a day, each one would be about an hour. and so we keep the class to that five five days at an hour. So students attend a two-hour Zoom. meeting every week where they do I do some lecturing, they do peer review, they do their teamwork projects, and then they do about three hours of work outside of class on their own time just to make progress on their own projects.
Jason: Wow. Yeah. it sounds rigorous, but not unmanageable.
Ms. Handley: Yeah, so it sounds bad to be like, my gosh, five hours but then you realize like, well, if I was taking this at school, like that's not even homework time. That's just the five days I would be in class doing the stuff. And and I would say most weeks it's not a full five hours. I would say there are a few that are
Jason: okay.
Ms. Handley: maybe heavier, but yeah, it's a very doable program, I think. I think the students who struggle are the students who aren't good at keeping up with that. And so they put themselves in a position where they're trying to do Nine weeks of work at the final deadline, which
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: is why definitely like our school setting is very independent. We're not the place maybe for students who need an adult to like walk
Jason: Yes.
Ms. Handley: them through their homework every day. But I love the flexibility that it gives our students.
Jason: Yeah, that's that's awesome. I mean what I'm hearing is this is this would be a great opportunity for basically any student who is curious and and and passionate or wants to develop a passion about almost literally anything. you know, any academic field of study, everything from, you know, theater lighting design to to you know s heavy STEM related stuff.
Ms. Handley: And it can be a change the world project, like I'm gonna figure out a way to solve cancer. I you could do that, or it could just be fun. I've seen sample papers about like analyzing real housewives. So like it does like it can be like I'm trying to change the world and prepare for college, and it can also just be I'm trying to learn about the research process and have some fun while I do it.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: All are welcome.
Jason: Very, very cool. wonderful. Well, I'm sure our the people listening, students and parents that may have more questions, I would say, you know, visit eliteprep.com or
Ms. Handley: That's
Jason: eliteopenschool.org to to learn more about it. contact one of our our your local elite prep branch. they'd be happy to probably put you in touch with Stephanie so that she can she can answer your questions. and then we also
Ms. Handley: Probably. Probably.
Jason: are having if you do want some more information, we do have regular webinars about this throughout the year.
Ms. Handley: Four left this year.
Jason: Well Stephanie, this has been incredibly helpful. You sold me. I'm like I said, I wanna I wanna research. Yes, here we go.
Ms. Handley: Okay, great. You're gonna enroll twenty twenty six.
Jason: I'm gonna get that diploma. so any any final thoughts or anything we didn't cover that you think we should we should add?
Ms. Handley: students who engage fully with the program, it's pretty eas I won't say easy. Easy's the wrong word. Most
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: students who fully engage with the program earn that score of three or higher. you have to have that score of three or higher to earn the diploma. I would I mean the pass rates are in the high eighties, low nineties globally. So it that is a very
Jason: okay. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: doable task. Fours and fives are more challenging, but also very doable. We have a lot of students who earn those. And so I think I would just encourage you that this isn't like, my gosh, I'm gonna have to work so hard and then I might not pass. If you take the course and engage with the program, whether that's at your school or here, there's a really strong chance that you would meet the requirements for the diploma.
Jason: Great. That's that's really helpful to know. if I were a parent who was sending a student,
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: that would make me feel b better about it. So yeah, great, great.
Ms. Handley: Yes.
Jason: well Stephanie, thank you so much for joining us today. Yes,
Ms. Handley: You're so welcome.
Jason: and and listeners, viewers, thank you so much for for joining us as well for episode two. of Standout, the Lead Prep College Admissions podcast. and we will what's that? I know it's gonna be great. Yeah. Listen to all. all right. Thanks
Ms. Handley: wait to listen to the podcast. I can't wait to listen, not to this one. In general.
Jason: everybody and we'll see you next time.
Ms. Handley: Bye.
Ms. Handley: I didn't. I'm learning so many things.
Jason: Out. so I am here today with the wonderful Stephanie Handley, who is The AP Capstone instructor for Elite Open School. and we we're here to answer your questions about AP Capstone, what it's all about, how it works, who it's for, how hard it is, how it will might help you on a college application, all that sort of stuff. so Stephanie, How long have you been teaching A P capstone?
Ms. Handley: Good question. So I've been teaching in general for almost 20 years now, which is
Jason: wow.
Ms. Handley: makes me feel old. but I taught at a public high
Jason: Wonderful.
Ms. Handley: school, taught English for Almost 15 years, AP lit for 14 of them. and then I've been at Elite since about 202 summer 2022. and then we started fall of 2023, the capstone program at Elite. So this will be my fourth year with the program. so I'm I'm really excited. I love it. It's it's so much fun to teach. It's a really cool program. So I'm I'm looking forward to starting with a new batch of students.
Jason: Fantastic. Great. let's assume I don't know anything about about AP Capstone. I have heard the word floating around the college admissions sort of atmosphere. but w can you give us a kind of overview of what even is AP capstone? I've heard of I've heard of AP chemistry, I've heard of A P U S history. So it sounds like AP Capstone is just another AP course. Is is that right?
Ms. Handley: yes and no.
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: so it is an A P course. You take the course during a school year. Well, it's two courses actually, and you take the course and you get an exam score. So in that sense Yes, it is another AP class, but it's it's really unique compared to the other AP courses. So AP Capstone actually refers to a program rather than a course. So there are two courses that make up the program, AP Seminar and AP Research. I would argue that in a lot of ways, AP Seminar is really like a foundational course that I think prepares you to do well in other AP courses, because you're Learning how to engage with professional texts and how to write arguments, and so you're developing a lot of the skills that I recognize from the AP English and History curriculum as well. AP research, I think, was designed to kind of mimic the IB programs, kind of like a capstone project. And
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: so in AP research, students actually design and carry out their own research project over the course of a school year. So in AP seminar, students are doing what they're what they're used to, where maybe they're writing a research an argument and they're using professional research papers as sources. That's kind of our main focus. In AP research, they're writing one of those professional research papers. And so they're actually collecting data, they are like analyzing their data, putting it in conversation with other sources and so the college board says that's like upper level graduate work. I got a masters and never did a full research project. So honestly like it's kind of graduate level work that I think they're doing.
Jason: Yeah, yeah.
Ms. Handley: Possibly that depends on the field a little bit. But So when
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: students do both of those programs, if they earn a score of three or higher, they earn what's called the AP research certificate or AP seminar and research certificate. If they go on to take another four AP exams and pass with a score of three or higher, then they earn what's called the AP Capstone Diploma, which is
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: kind of like the college board's I don't know if it's the highest distinction. I don't know where that ranks with like the AP scholar with merit and this and that, but it is a really
Jason: Sure. Yeah, yeah.
Ms. Handley: high distinction from the college board that appears on their score reports and that they can like brag about to colleges and that kind of thing.
Jason: Right, right. So so if if a sort of standard AP course like, you know, chemistry or US history is is good, you know, the AP capstone diploma would kind of be like an even higher level of achievement as a as
Ms. Handley: Yeah, 'cause it shows that like not only have you done four or more, well, really six AP classes, but two of them are really a level of research that goes beyond the expectations of what you do in a lot of your other AP classes. And so it's kind of like not only can I show expertise in these four subjects, but also I can kind of pull things together from a variety of topics and
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: Make arguments and presentations.
Jason: Yes. Great. Okay. So who is this for? who can can any high school student take it or what what year should you be in if you're interested in these these courses or this this full diploma?
Ms. Handley: Great question. So the program is designed to be for 10th and 11th graders. the college board does not recommend that freshmen take it just because they are still adjusting to high school. There there may be content that they're not quite ready for. I will say we have had a couple of freshmen go through the program and do fine. So I think it definitely you know your own self, your student the best. but the
Jason: Sure. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: program is designed for 10th graders. some schools actually their English 10 is A P seminar. So they've combined those programs together. that's not what we do at Elite Open School. We treat it as an elective but there are some schools where you may see that like every every 10th grader takes A P seminar as their English class or every honors student probably, probably not every sophomore. And then juniors take AP research. We we recommend that, I don't know, progression at Elite because then when you're applying for colleges, you can say, I already earned my AP capstone diploma, and you can talk
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: about your research paper in your application and everything. But there's certainly still value in doing the program as a junior and senior. Like that is
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: still an option. It's totally fine to say this is in process. It's just like taking an AP course senior year, you would still send the score report at the end of the year. So still value as a junior senior, but recommended for sophomores and juniors.
Jason: Right. Okay, terrific.
Ms. Handley: And then in terms of the kind of student, I think this is a perfect class for students who are super curious. Like if you get to pick your own topics to explore. it's not like regular classes where your teacher says, here's your prompt, right about this topic. instead,
Jason: huh.
Ms. Handley: they get to decide, I want to write about this, I want to learn about this, and so they can study something that is like what they maybe want to major in, they can just do something fun. And interesting and pursue a hobby. but it's a really like open-ended class. And so I think for
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: students who are curious, maybe more independent than school sometimes allows them to be, it's a good class for them.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: definitely not a great class if you are not good with time management. it is definitely a class where you have to stay on top of things more, and then. It's one of those where you don't have to be like the best English student ever, but there is college-level reading and writing. Like you're reading professional research papers, and so that is something to keep in mind as well.
Jason: Okay. So so reading and writing are central to this.
Ms. Handley: Wow.
Jason: we wouldn't describe AP Capstone or its constituent courses, seminar and research as English courses, right? Okay.
Ms. Handley: Correct. And actually they're not even siloed in any single discipline. So students
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: can so I think I know when I taught AP Lit, students would dread it because it's like, well, I'm a Calc student, or I'm, you know, I like math and science. Where AP seminar and AP research really can apply to any discipline. So for AP research, I've had students do a lot of psychology type projects.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: you can do a traditional science project, you can do engineering projects. I haven't seen a heavy like English one yet, but you can. You can
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: do a visual performing arts project. So I've seen sample papers where I think a student did the lighting design for their school's production of Mamma Mia, but it was like according to the like how that is carried out in a professional like lighting design academic community context. So literally any subject that you're interested in, you can
Jason: wow.
Ms. Handley: do a project relating to that. I get to learn alongside you what research looks like in that field. I had a student this year who designed a mathematical model. So we had to do a lot of figuring out how I don't know how to do math research because I'm an English teacher who majored in psych,
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: you know. And so we had to figure out like what does that look like? how do you report that information? and so any subject students are interested in, they can study in these courses. So it's not like they have to say, Well, I'm a science person, I'm a computer person. great like
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: you're learning the kind of things you'll do in college with that field.
Jason: Yeah. That sounds really exciting. And I see why you said it takes a curious student, you know, someone
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: with a lot of curiosity or who wants to really dig into something they're they're interested in or passionate about, or maybe develop a passion, you know.
Ms. Handley: Yeah, and I it's a cool way to explore too, so you can
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: what's cool is I've had a lot of students not realize all the options kind of of college majors. Like I had a student this
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: year wanted to analyze mukbang videos on YouTube, which is like videos where you watch people eat food. And
Jason: Okay. Yeah. Yes.
Ms. Handley: I had never heard of them before this year, so I learned, but she didn't know that there's like a whole branch of like cultural studies where you actually like can study YouTube and like how people respond to YouTube and how algorithms work. Like it like students don't think of that because it's not a high school course, but like she was excited to learn that that's a whole field that has research and like you can dig into that. I had another student do something with sourdough starters and so she didn't know that like kitchen science is a whole like line of academic research where it's not just biology, but how that applies to cooking and recipes, not just
Jason: what?
Ms. Handley: like the I don't know, prep cycle It's awesome.
Jason: That is fascinating. Wow. Okay, well, so in terms of in terms of how this might help a student you know on a who is college bound and looking you know, maybe looking at competitive schools, any anything from, you know, the UC schools to Ivy Leagues or or whatever, or if they you know are just curious and want to excel you know no matter where they end up going.
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: but I would imagine that this is not just a hey I I took two cool classes those are are on my transcript. This is like a real way to to develop that curiosity that
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: college admissions officers are looking for you know, in your in your essays, in your interviews, in all that stuff. So yeah, can you can you talk about that or is that something you've seen? great.
Ms. Handley: Gosh, I have like so many things to say there. Yes. one is I mean, the courses are known for being rigorous. So just having them on the transcript, great. P like colleges know what that means. They know that the program is rare, that not all students take it, and not all students earn the distinction. So just saying you have it is a bonus right there. I'm gonna add to that a lot of things though. I think What I think is probably the most valuable, I don't know if students will agree with this, because I know the emphasis is on getting into college, but as a teacher, what I think is most valuable is you're actually learning the kind of research that you will do in college. So as a former English teacher, we don't have time to do a lot of research papers. And when we do research papers, it really doesn't look like the kind of research you do in college because there's just not time to focus on. that with everything else. And so this is a class where like you're not doing all the other stuff relating to English. You're just learning how to do research. And for a year you're learning how to gather sources and write about them. And then for a year you're learning how to carry out the research process. And so it's just a skill that we practice multiple times and that no matter what you study in college, you're gonna have to do. So that's how college works. You go, well, I'm You and I went to the library and found journals and research articles and like wrote our paper about them. They just use the online database, so it's easier from their dorm room. But this is every class you take in college, you're writing at least one, if not two papers where you're having to find these sources and make an argument. So these are skills that just you need to do well in college and that high school probably isn't gonna prepare you for.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: So there's that. You are definitely, I think, developing a sense of intellectual passion. I know a lot of the elite school applications ask you to talk about an intellectual passion. And in my experience, students have a hard time with that because they're like, Well, I like math because I'm good at it. But like they don't have the language to say, this one really niche topic I find fascinating because blah blah blah blah blah. Well, you're taking Two years where you actually probably deep dive three or four really niche topics. And so you can kind of nerd out about something in a way that a lot of high school students just don't have the vocabulary for.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: there's a huge presentation component of the course. So you're developing those communication skills, so writing skills, but also oral skills, teamwork skills. And then you can also use it as a springboard for other things in your college application. So I have a number of students who I wrote ref or letters of recommendation for their summer research programs, just based on their participation in the class. I have had students publish in journals, which that is a common thing for AP. There's high school journals that frequently publish AP research papers, but you can also my student was published in a a regular journal. so that is
Jason: Wow. Wow.
Ms. Handley: something that then you can put on your resume.
Jason: Awesome.
Ms. Handley: you can it might make like connections with other like mentors. So I had a student this year who worked with a professor from in the field of media literacy. And then she did her research project on that, but then also through another program she's involved in, she has a bill relating to media literacy on the floor to be voted on in the California Senate, House Congress, ha whatever whatever you call it.
Jason: my goodness.
Ms. Handley: so that's quite a package of of things.
Jason: Wow,
Ms. Handley: I had a student enter their work in a competition, like a Can Canada Science Fair competition. I don't remember what he replaced, but he did really well. and so it really just kind of opens the door for other research-related opportunities or to put together like a compelling package for admissions where it's like I learned a lot about this and then I did this related to it. And so it just I think can really be a stepping stone. into other things that will benefit your college application.
Jason: Yeah, wow, incredible. it sounds like it's your your research component, your your rigorous course component, your intellectual curiosity, y all of that even sort of your essay inspiration, your college essay inspiration
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: and coaching and stuff all sort of rolled into one. So yeah.
Ms. Handley: Yeah. Become really like passionate about the program through teaching. It was terrifying the first year of each class because it's really
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: overwhelming to see not only here's all the stuff you need to cover, but also I'm used to being a very like organized control control teacher. and there's only so much I can control when students are researching all individual topics and it's it's very open-ended and research is messy, but now it's it's so much. Fun, it's so exciting to see what they come up with, and then I love watching watching students just grow in like human ways as well, like
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: just their confidence in how they they ha interact with adults. Like I had a student who was horrified and shocked that she left a message at a doctor's office and they hadn't called her back yet. And I said, yeah, adults are super annoying. you're gonna
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: have to email six times before you get a response.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: That's just normal. And I've had students who were like, Miss Hamley, none of the students will return my surveys. Like, right, welcome to my life and you know
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: And then I had a student who was so nervous to talk to managers at pet stores that she like called a pet store in New York, even though she lives in California, just to practice in front of someone who would never never see her again and possibly humiliate her. of like real world skills. And I think so many of them, it can be a really frustrating class because Research is messy. Like you have this idea of something you want to do and rarely does it go according to the plan you come up with in October and you have to problem solve along the way. Like you have to like this is due in two months, so we gotta figure out something to be able to finish it. And I am not allowed to tell students like this is how you should fix it. It's more of a coaching kind of a thing, which is frustrating for them. They want me to say, do XYZ and it'll be fine.
Jason: Here is what you do.
Ms. Handley: But they grow so much because of it of just having to like problem solve and they're so proud of themselves at the end, which I think is really cool.
Jason: Wow, beautiful. that's the the the real learning, the the the the
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: soft skills and the research skills and the the grit like as college admissions people always talk about. that's
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: that's awesome. So okay, so let's say I'm a student considering, you know, enrolling in the whole program or do you just enroll a course at a time? Is that sort of like A P seminar? Correct.
Ms. Handley: One course at a time. Yeah, you have to take them separately. So you can't take them at the same time or out of order. You have to do seminar first. And you have to do each one over the course of a school year. Like these are not classes you could do accelerated and independent because of the research component and both of the classes, AP seminar, you do half your test during the school year. They call them performance tasks. And so by the time you It for your exam in May, you've already submitted 55% of your exam. And then AP research,
Jason: Okay.
Ms. Handley: there is no end-of-course exam. You're just doing it during the school year. And so
Jason: interesting. Okay.
Ms. Handley: because of like the teacher checkpoint components and things like that, it's not a class that you could just do independently in an accelerated fashion. So definitely it's a
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: it's a two-year program, but you enroll one year at a time.
Jason: Yes, okay. So there there are assessments, but you know, unlike pretty much I guess all of the other AP courses, it's not the exam happens, you know, at the end separately. it this is sort of integrated. Okay.
Ms. Handley: Well, AP Center does have an exam. It's a short exam. So they it's two hours. They only have free response questions. There's no multiple choice. and
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: really it's just a timed version of what they've been doing all year. It's not something that they need to take like review sessions for and that kind of thing, 'cause it's not
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: content. It's just practicing what they've done all year. but then yeah, AP research, they're done April thirtieth, which they love because then they can focus
Jason: yeah.
Ms. Handley: on other A P exams. During
Jason: that's a selling point right there to to take the the program. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: I know, they love it.
Jason: So so okay, let's say I am a student considering enrolling in A P seminar d in September this podcast
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: is being recorded on August fourth. But do I need to have my research topic picked out, you know, all like ready to go before I enroll in AP seminar.
Ms. Handley: Definitely not. Definitely not for AP seminar. AP seminar, you can come in blank slate. I'm gonna walk you through the whole process of everything you need. my students
Jason: great, okay.
Ms. Handley: who are coming from seminar to research, I give them a summer assignment to kind of start thinking about topics they might be interested in because we do have to decide pretty fast once the school year starts. because
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: they it's hard to move forward if you don't have any t any idea what you're going to research. and
Jason: Right. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: we have some students who take seminar at their own school and then they do research with us. I would say in that
Jason: Mm.
Ms. Handley: case it helps to have a vague idea of what you might be interested in. but you could come
Jason: Right. Yep. Right. it's built to help you figure it out,
Ms. Handley: Yes. research, they're they have to make some decisions early just because we have to start doing things, but there's a lot of wiggle room in those early weeks where they can change direction if they need to and like it's it it's not like you're locked in week one to a very specific topic. Yeah.
Jason: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very cool. This sounds incredibly exciting. Yeah. Wow. I love
Ms. Handley: It's so cool. I wish I took it in school. I know. It's really fun.
Jason: it. you teach this program, AP seminar and AP research at Elite Open School. and then you
Ms. Handley: Yes.
Jason: also mentioned, you know, students taking one or both courses at their own high school. So how does
Ms. Handley: Wax.
Jason: this w work? How does AP capstone work? Can can everybody take it at their own high school or yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
Ms. Handley: Good question. unfortunately there are a lot of high schools that don't offer the program. fifteen percent of high schools even offer A P capstone from the school's perspective. It's there are
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: a lot of challenges involved with it. so not all schools offer it. There are also a lot of schools that offer seminar but not research. So a lot of students will do seminar, but then they can't finish the diploma program because they don't have research. so
Jason: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: if you have a school that offers it, that's fantastic, especially because
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: I think when you're going to that classroom every single day, like that's certainly helpful to be able to interact face to face and to, you know, have kind of an adult more Like accessible to you throughout the process. But what I love about Elite Open School is that because we run our program entirely online, we not only can say you're one of those students who doesn't have access to the program or you only have seminar but not research, you could come take it with us and we can help you to finish the program. Or just you know, maybe it's not offered at your school. You could come take it with us. us as a part-time student. You don't have to be like a full-time student with us. You could just take those two courses.
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: we're an accredited high school, so you get a transcript that you can submit to colleges. and so I've had I've had four students in the past finish AP research with us. I've got at least one already, maybe two, I think coming this year who've already reached out that they're looking for a place to finish. I also had some students take seminar with me because it just conflicted with their schedule. And then they got to do research at their home school, which was great for them as well.
Jason: okay. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: I love that we have this this flexible program that allows students to take advantage of a really amazing program that not all schools. Are able to offer. So
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: I I I love that we can offer that. We do it in the evenings so students can do it alongside their other things. We've had students from all over the world. So we most of our students are from California. We have a we've had a number of students from Canada. I've had one from Japan. I had an American living in Australia this past year, and then we've had a handful from the East Coast. So that we're you're not limited by location, which is kind of cool.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: So that's really neat. And then because we have the in-person branches, they can get support there as well. So it's a really unique kind of setting that is not available in all places. but
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: we I also work really hard to keep it at a five-hour a week time commitment so that if
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: were say you're going to regular school and you have six classes a day, each one would be about an hour. and so we keep the class to that five five days at an hour. So students attend a two-hour Zoom. meeting every week where they do I do some lecturing, they do peer review, they do their teamwork projects, and then they do about three hours of work outside of class on their own time just to make progress on their own projects.
Jason: Wow. Yeah. it sounds rigorous, but not unmanageable.
Ms. Handley: Yeah, so it sounds bad to be like, my gosh, five hours but then you realize like, well, if I was taking this at school, like that's not even homework time. That's just the five days I would be in class doing the stuff. And and I would say most weeks it's not a full five hours. I would say there are a few that are
Jason: okay.
Ms. Handley: maybe heavier, but yeah, it's a very doable program, I think. I think the students who struggle are the students who aren't good at keeping up with that. And so they put themselves in a position where they're trying to do Nine weeks of work at the final deadline, which
Jason: Right.
Ms. Handley: is why definitely like our school setting is very independent. We're not the place maybe for students who need an adult to like walk
Jason: Yes.
Ms. Handley: them through their homework every day. But I love the flexibility that it gives our students.
Jason: Yeah, that's that's awesome. I mean what I'm hearing is this is this would be a great opportunity for basically any student who is curious and and and passionate or wants to develop a passion about almost literally anything. you know, any academic field of study, everything from, you know, theater lighting design to to you know s heavy STEM related stuff.
Ms. Handley: And it can be a change the world project, like I'm gonna figure out a way to solve cancer. I you could do that, or it could just be fun. I've seen sample papers about like analyzing real housewives. So like it does like it can be like I'm trying to change the world and prepare for college, and it can also just be I'm trying to learn about the research process and have some fun while I do it.
Jason: Yeah.
Ms. Handley: All are welcome.
Jason: Very, very cool. wonderful. Well, I'm sure our the people listening, students and parents that may have more questions, I would say, you know, visit eliteprep.com or
Ms. Handley: That's
Jason: eliteopenschool.org to to learn more about it. contact one of our our your local elite prep branch. they'd be happy to probably put you in touch with Stephanie so that she can she can answer your questions. and then we also
Ms. Handley: Probably. Probably.
Jason: are having if you do want some more information, we do have regular webinars about this throughout the year.
Ms. Handley: Four left this year.
Jason: Well Stephanie, this has been incredibly helpful. You sold me. I'm like I said, I wanna I wanna research. Yes, here we go.
Ms. Handley: Okay, great. You're gonna enroll twenty twenty six.
Jason: I'm gonna get that diploma. so any any final thoughts or anything we didn't cover that you think we should we should add?
Ms. Handley: students who engage fully with the program, it's pretty eas I won't say easy. Easy's the wrong word. Most
Jason: Mm-hmm.
Ms. Handley: students who fully engage with the program earn that score of three or higher. you have to have that score of three or higher to earn the diploma. I would I mean the pass rates are in the high eighties, low nineties globally. So it that is a very
Jason: okay. Yeah.
Ms. Handley: doable task. Fours and fives are more challenging, but also very doable. We have a lot of students who earn those. And so I think I would just encourage you that this isn't like, my gosh, I'm gonna have to work so hard and then I might not pass. If you take the course and engage with the program, whether that's at your school or here, there's a really strong chance that you would meet the requirements for the diploma.
Jason: Great. That's that's really helpful to know. if I were a parent who was sending a student,
Ms. Handley: Yeah.
Jason: that would make me feel b better about it. So yeah, great, great.
Ms. Handley: Yes.
Jason: well Stephanie, thank you so much for joining us today. Yes,
Ms. Handley: You're so welcome.
Jason: and and listeners, viewers, thank you so much for for joining us as well for episode two. of Standout, the Lead Prep College Admissions podcast. and we will what's that? I know it's gonna be great. Yeah. Listen to all. all right. Thanks
Ms. Handley: wait to listen to the podcast. I can't wait to listen, not to this one. In general.
Jason: everybody and we'll see you next time.
Ms. Handley: Bye.
