What AI Couldn't Do: Finding the Perfect Name for My Book with Brand Strategist Rebeca Arbona

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Carol Cox:
How important is a name for your book?

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Your talk, your framework,

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your thought leadership message,

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even your business?

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Well, my return guest,

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Rebeca Abana, is a genius.

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She has an incredible talent with naming.

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And I'm going to tell you in this

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conversation how she named my book that I

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literally have spent five years struggling

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with the name, have tried all different

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variations of it.

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I've even asked ChatGPT to help me with the

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name Big Fail.

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So we're going to talk about what Rebeca

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ended up coming up with for the name of my

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book, which I was so excited about,

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but I really want to dive in with Rebecca,

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how she does this thing.

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Is it just magic that she's able to do,

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or what can she teach us about the importance

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of the names that we do?

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Rebecca is a brand strategist and the founder

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of Brand True, where she helps organizations

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uncover and communicate the truths at their

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core. And she was last on the Speaking Your

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Brand podcast in 2020.

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So yes, it's been six years and episode 179,

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that is an incredible episode.

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We talk about the deep truths that you and

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your brand need to stay.

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So I'll link to that in the show notes so you

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can check that episode out as well.

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Rebeca, welcome back to the podcast.

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Rebeca Arbona:
It's great to be back.

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I can't believe it's been six years since we

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last did this.

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Carol Cox:
I know, I feel like it hasn't been that long

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since I've seen you.

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Rebeca Arbona:
Agreed, agreed.

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But thank you for having me back. I really

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appreciate it.

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Carol Cox:
Well, I am so excited we reconnected because

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you are working on a book and my book coach,

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Tiffany Hawk and I were planning a retreat,

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which stay tuned, that will come back in

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2027. And so we had a Zoom call and we hadn't

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connected in a while.

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And so I was really excited to learn about

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what you were doing.

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And then I mentioned to you that I was

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struggling to name my book and you're like,

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just send me the send me what you have,

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send me the blurb and I'll do it.

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And I was just stunned.

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But before we get into there,

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I guess, Rebeca, tell me a little bit, how

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did you get into naming?

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When did you figure out that this was

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something that you were really good at and

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why it's so important?

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Rebeca Arbona:
I love the opportunity to answer this

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question. I mean, I probably didn't really

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start chasing a role as a namer until I was

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about 50. So somewhat later in my career,

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um, as an undergrad in college,

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I was a linguistics major because I grew up

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bilingual. Spanish is my first language.

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I grew up bilingual, and I was fascinated by

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languages. And in college,

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I really never knew what I wanted to do.

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But those were I took a linguistics class and

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it just lit me up.

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Those sorts of classes were the things that I

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found most interesting.

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So in the spirit of, you know,

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a liberal arts education, I studied that.

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I didn't want to be an academic.

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Um, and so I didn't know what else you could

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do with it. And I ended up floating around a

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little and I ended up in brand management,

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working in a toy company,

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Hasbro, and then working in brand strategy

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for many, many years. And sometimes naming

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would come up and I'd be like,

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oh, you know, I love it,

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but I didn't really know how to do it until

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when I worked at Interbrand,

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which is a global brand consultancy.

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I got trained in naming and started to

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understand the discipline and the rules and

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realized that, you know, I didn't know what I

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was doing when I dabbled in it before,

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when I ten years ago went out on my own.

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Um, with Brand true.

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I loved the idea of having it be a naming

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firm, but I didn't dare,

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I didn't have that much,

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um, under my belt of naming.

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I didn't have contacts and case studies and

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those things. So I was really just doing

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general brand strategy work.

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But when the naming projects searched up,

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you know, for me, naming,

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if I woke up in the middle of the night

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thinking about work at any other point in my

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career, it was a bad thing.

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When I'm working on a naming project, I wake

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up in the middle of the night and go, oh, and

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I roll over and I grab my phone and I tap out

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20 names, and then I put the phone down and I

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go back to sleep with a smile on my face,

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like it's a completely different energy for

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me. So that's how I got into it.

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And I do think, you know,

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I draw on the languages that I speak and on

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how I enjoy languages.

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You know, I never studied Latin,

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but, you know, Latin roots.

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You pick them up when you do this kind of

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work. I draw on those things,

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but just as much.

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I draw on the fact that I'm a brand

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strategist. I think that as we talk about

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names, you'll hear me say the word strategy a

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lot. For me, it's it's a very creative

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exercise, but incredibly bounded by the

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strategic guardrails.

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You know, let's keep talking and that'll make

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sense.

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Carol Cox:
Well, yes. So why are names so important.

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So we think of the names that we know so well

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you know Amazon, Google,

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Facebook, then meta, like a lot of the,

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you know, a lot of the tech companies like

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short one word names.

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I think these all these AI startups are kind

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of following along that versus some of the

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older names, like International Business

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Machines, which was IBM.

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Like we had a lot of those,

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I guess in the 60s and 70s.

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So it feels like business names and brand

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names have evolved over the past decades.

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Is there like a trend to them that we should

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be aware of that is that we should follow or

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not follow or, you know,

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how do we think about even go about thinking

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about what a name could be?

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Rebeca Arbona:
There are trends that I can talk about,

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but they're small. You know,

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like I see that nonprofit names are a lot of

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nonprofits are renaming to be less

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descriptive and more of a call to action.

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But that's, that's sort of a smaller thing.

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I think that there were a lot of questions in

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your question, which I loved.

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I think that I'll go with like,

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sort of why are names so important?

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Before I talk about how names have changed?

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It's like anything, it's it's first

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impression management.

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There are lots of great companies with crappy

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names and lots of companies with great names

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that don't succeed. It is not necessary for

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success, but just like you're going to catch

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more, what do they say? Catch more flies with

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honey you're trying to date.

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You smile, you comb your hair.

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It's like you might as well put the best face

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onto your brand.

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And so and so I think that's why they matter

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so much. Why? Why don't you have a name that

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helps you more by helping you to express your

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strategy? So there's a lot of different kinds

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of names and they're all good depending on

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what you're trying to do.

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So for example, International Business

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Machines was a brilliant name at the dawn of

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there being business machines.

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Business machine was probably a novel idea

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when IBM was calling themselves that,

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you know, many years later,

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these are the really the,

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you know, the obvious examples.

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But many years later, when computers were

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somewhat established and Apple came along,

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they named themselves Apple to be friendly,

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approachable, not intimidating,

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because people at that point knew what

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international business machines and other

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kinds of computers were.

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And they were such business machines.

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They were so a part of a certain world that

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they didn't feel like they were for regular

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people. So, so this incredibly metaphoric

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name and this incredibly descriptive name are

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both very good names because they had

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different strategies of who they were

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speaking to and what they needed to

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communicate. So.

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What kind of name to use is never the

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starting point. It's what are we selling?

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Who are we selling it to?

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Who else is out there?

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Do we need to educate people that this

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exists? Or are there lots of competitors?

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And we're going to have to lean into emotion

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or whimsy or metaphor to be different.

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Things like that come to play?

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Carol Cox:
Well, that is such a great example between

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IBM and Apple, because clearly they just have

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very different cultures.

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And like you mentioned,

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different audiences, different goals,

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different brands that they want to convey to

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their to the consumers,

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the people who would be buying from them.

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And so then, Rebeca, it sounds like just

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taking a piece of paper and kind of just

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jotting down a bunch of words that maybe that

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you like as the business owner or as the

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author or the speaker or whatever you're

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working on is not the way to go.

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Like we have to back up and do some other

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work and in front of that.

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So I guess, tell me a little bit about your

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process from the high level.

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So you know, you're working with someone.

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What is it that you start to do first before

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you even get to the brainstorming of

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potential names?

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Rebeca Arbona:
Yeah, I mean, I think I rattled it off just

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now to a certain extent.

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The first thing I would want to do is really

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understand what is the offering a service

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like you offer a product,

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a widget, whatever it is,

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let me understand what it is.

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Let me understand what makes it different.

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Um, is it different because you're the only

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one? Great.

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Do people understand what it is that's going

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to give you a different naming task than if

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they don't. Right. Um,

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are there a lot of them?

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And it's hard for you to stand apart.

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Okay. We need a name that's more distinctive.

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So so understanding what it is,

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understanding who you're speaking to.

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I'm not even doing these in any good order,

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because I'm not sure that there is an order.

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It's all these things at once,

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you know. So what are we trying to sell?

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Who are we selling it to?

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Can we not just identify them,

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but maybe understand them a little,

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get some insights about them and what are

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they looking for and how do they want to feel

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when they're getting this product or service.

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So we need to understand those things.

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And then we say, okay,

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what is it that we are going to choose to

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talk about in that case?

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So I know that one of the things that we

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wanted to talk about was mistakes that people

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make in naming. So I'll jump to that.

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One of the mistakes that people often make,

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and I suspect this is why you were so stuck

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on the name of your book for so long,

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is because you know, all the things that you

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want to say, and it's very hard to pick one.

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So, so one of the things I say often is that

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a brand is like a big suitcase.

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A brand has all these different,

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you know, products and experiences people

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might have had with it and things that it

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knows and things that it does. And they're

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all in there. When you interact with the

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brand, there's a lot of things going on. But

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when you're not in there,

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when you're on the outside,

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you can only see a few things on the outside.

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And the name is like the handle.

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Like if I say Nike, you know,

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we're talking Apple. They're just such

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obvious ones. But it's good because everyone

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will know them, right? So we talked Apple.

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Let's talk Nike. Everyone knows for the most

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part the same inside that suitcase.

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They're going to have a different set of

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experiences. Did they play sports and use

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Nike in high school?

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Is it their kids?

295
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Are they upset about something Nike did? Do

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they think Nike is great? Everyone has a

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different unique set of things in the

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suitcase, but they're mostly the same,

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right? The the contours are pretty much the

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same, and all you have to do is hear that

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name or see that swoosh.

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We're not going to talk about logos today,

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but. And boom, like everything is in there.

304
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So that's why I said the name is like the

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handle that you can grab the whole thing by.

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And then it's helpful to think about what's

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on the outside and what's on the inside.

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00:12:05,650 --> 00:12:08,210
So setting the strategy is figuring out what

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00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:09,370
do we need to talk about.

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But here's a tricky part.

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I don't want to go too far down the rabbit

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hole on this, but there's probably several

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00:12:18,610 --> 00:12:20,330
things that you want to talk about for your

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brand. And so we can probably pick several

315
00:12:25,090 --> 00:12:27,330
things that the name could be about,

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like if this is a bad example,

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but there's a pen next to me.

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00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:35,330
So if I'm trying to establish some kind of,

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00:12:35,690 --> 00:12:37,770
um, I'm trying to sell this pen,

320
00:12:38,330 --> 00:12:40,570
I could talk about that.

321
00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:42,290
It's got, if you don't know these pens,

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00:12:42,290 --> 00:12:43,450
they're wonderful. And they've got really,

323
00:12:43,450 --> 00:12:45,410
really juicy ink. They call them signature

324
00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:46,890
pens or signing pens. Sometimes they're

325
00:12:46,890 --> 00:12:49,170
really fun for signing your name. So you

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00:12:49,170 --> 00:12:50,530
could talk about how it's juicy.

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00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:52,890
You could talk about how it's,

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00:12:53,060 --> 00:12:56,260
um, because it's juicy creative ideas flow.

329
00:12:56,580 --> 00:12:58,380
You could talk about how it writes boldly.

330
00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:00,740
You could talk about how with a fat barrel,

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it's ergonomic.

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00:13:02,660 --> 00:13:03,940
All those things are true.

333
00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:07,340
And maybe you might end up talking about all

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00:13:07,380 --> 00:13:09,980
of them, but you're not necessarily going to

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00:13:09,980 --> 00:13:11,100
put them all in a name.

336
00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:14,060
So a strategy is saying what are they?

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00:13:14,620 --> 00:13:16,100
What are the most important ones?

338
00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:20,300
And then naming has a little bit of like luck

339
00:13:20,340 --> 00:13:23,900
and creative strokes of lightning and maybe

340
00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:25,620
even what's legally available.

341
00:13:25,940 --> 00:13:28,260
So probably we would brainstorm all of them

342
00:13:28,260 --> 00:13:31,660
knowing that like the ergonomic thing,

343
00:13:31,660 --> 00:13:34,020
comfort in your hand, that's the one that we

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00:13:34,020 --> 00:13:35,860
think is the best. We'll put a lot of effort

345
00:13:35,860 --> 00:13:39,380
into that, but let's, let's play with juicy

346
00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:42,660
names too. Let's play with flow of ideas,

347
00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:45,140
names. And so she'll end up,

348
00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:47,020
you have your strategy,

349
00:13:48,220 --> 00:13:49,860
figure out what you want to talk about. You

350
00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:51,620
figure out what you don't want to talk about.

351
00:13:51,820 --> 00:13:53,640
You generate as many names as you can.

352
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:57,600
When I do, naming project 600 names is kind

353
00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,120
of skinny. Skinny?

354
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:06,600
Yeah. In in, um, any kind of creative

355
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,400
endeavor, there's lots of research, whether

356
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,440
it's, say, designing logos back to logos or

357
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,560
coming up with new product ideas or coming up

358
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:17,200
with names, any kind of creative exercise.

359
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,040
The single biggest predictor of quality of

360
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,920
ideas is quantity of ideas.

361
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,560
So, so we'll take that idea,

362
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:26,720
that strategy and say,

363
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,000
this is what we're trying to communicate, and

364
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,560
we'll come up with some names. And even if

365
00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,120
you've got a big bunch of people,

366
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,760
100 or 200 names, you'll probably be done.

367
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,200
Then you say, okay, now let's talk about

368
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,200
juicy names and we'll go a little further.

369
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,880
Now let's talk about creativity names.

370
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,480
Let's go a little bit further. Somebody has

371
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,320
an idea. Let's let's all do names on that.

372
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,240
And so the more names you get,

373
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,040
the more likely you are to have a stroke of

374
00:14:52,060 --> 00:14:55,340
brilliance. So then what comes next is with

375
00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:58,340
your strategy, with some priorities,

376
00:14:58,340 --> 00:14:59,780
some selection criteria.

377
00:15:00,020 --> 00:15:02,700
You narrow it down, you generate that many

378
00:15:03,460 --> 00:15:06,380
just to make sure that you've left no stone

379
00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:07,940
unturned. But then you have to narrow it

380
00:15:07,940 --> 00:15:09,740
down. And so you narrow it down

381
00:15:09,740 --> 00:15:12,340
strategically, but you also narrow it down

382
00:15:12,340 --> 00:15:15,380
legally, because there's a lot of names out

383
00:15:15,380 --> 00:15:17,900
there that are already taken.

384
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:20,300
And sometimes you're lucky and it's not

385
00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:21,860
taken, and sometimes you're lucky and it's

386
00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:23,900
not taken in your category.

387
00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:27,220
That's how you can have dove chocolates and

388
00:15:27,220 --> 00:15:29,220
dove body products.

389
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:32,900
They're not the same company because they're

390
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:34,340
not likely to be confused.

391
00:15:34,580 --> 00:15:40,900
So so the practicality of is it available has

392
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:41,940
to come into play.

393
00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:45,100
But first we just got creative.

394
00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:48,580
Then we narrow it down and then we help

395
00:15:48,580 --> 00:15:50,820
clients figure out what are their best bets,

396
00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:53,920
but we try not to let them fall in love with

397
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,840
any one name, because when you send it to

398
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,400
trademark, it might not be free.

399
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,560
Or when you do a little bit of due diligence,

400
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,160
when you ask people, it's not good to ask

401
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,200
people, do you like this name or not?

402
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,080
Because we don't really know how to evaluate

403
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,520
names. And so we'll say,

404
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:12,880
do I like it? I don't know,

405
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,320
don't I like it? Um, generally speaking,

406
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,320
in our culture, when you pick on things and

407
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,280
criticize them, seem smarter than loving

408
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,400
them. Oh, so you convince yourself you don't

409
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,280
like it just to sound smart sometimes.

410
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,440
So instead, there's two things I like to ask.

411
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,120
Ask some people.

412
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,440
What does this name make you think of?

413
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:35,440
So the associations.

414
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,080
And that's a really good reason why you

415
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,600
shouldn't fall in love with names,

416
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,600
because people will say,

417
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,120
well, it sounds just like booger snot.

418
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,280
It does. That didn't occur to me.

419
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,120
You know, something horrible like that can

420
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,040
happen. From experience,

421
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,370
you also look around you make sure it doesn't

422
00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:54,490
mean boogers, not in Serbo-Croatian.

423
00:16:54,490 --> 00:16:56,210
And you make sure that.

424
00:16:57,890 --> 00:16:59,970
I'm just going to say it's worthwhile to

425
00:17:00,010 --> 00:17:02,130
check the Urban Dictionary because once or

426
00:17:02,130 --> 00:17:03,930
twice I've looked in the Urban Dictionary and

427
00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:06,130
I've found unspeakable things in there that

428
00:17:06,130 --> 00:17:07,170
have killed a name. So.

429
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:08,850
So you got to look around.

430
00:17:10,090 --> 00:17:12,250
So I got all excited thinking about,

431
00:17:12,410 --> 00:17:15,090
okay, so, so, so the first thing is you say,

432
00:17:15,090 --> 00:17:16,650
hey, and you figure out what people's

433
00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:19,530
associations are. And that's a little bit of

434
00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:21,490
a disaster check. But that's also like,

435
00:17:21,530 --> 00:17:24,730
wow, the associations for this name take

436
00:17:24,730 --> 00:17:26,690
people in a place that I like more than that

437
00:17:26,690 --> 00:17:29,490
name. So that's extra information.

438
00:17:29,490 --> 00:17:31,410
That's one thing that's nice to do.

439
00:17:31,690 --> 00:17:35,250
The other thing is maybe take a description

440
00:17:35,250 --> 00:17:39,810
of what your company does or your positioning

441
00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:41,290
or like with your book,

442
00:17:41,690 --> 00:17:43,890
what I did. Can I talk about your book?

443
00:17:44,050 --> 00:17:46,090
Carol Cox:
Yes. Let's go. Yeah, let's get into that.

444
00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:47,370
Rebeca Arbona:
I've been talking so long.

445
00:17:47,410 --> 00:17:47,850
Sorry.

446
00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:49,650
Carol Cox:
No, no, this is great.

447
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:52,670
Rebeca Arbona:
With your book. You sent me a blurb and I

448
00:17:52,670 --> 00:17:55,230
started pulling out a blurb and then a little

449
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:56,750
bit of context underneath it, and I started

450
00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:58,190
pulling out ideas and pulling out ideas. And

451
00:17:58,190 --> 00:17:59,910
then I looked at the blurb and I said, mhm.

452
00:18:00,470 --> 00:18:02,750
And I rewrote the blurb just for myself.

453
00:18:02,990 --> 00:18:04,510
I sent it back to you after I was done, but I

454
00:18:04,510 --> 00:18:06,870
rewrote it just for myself. And I said, okay,

455
00:18:07,230 --> 00:18:08,750
so if this is what I'm working with,

456
00:18:08,790 --> 00:18:11,310
then that just helped me get clear.

457
00:18:11,310 --> 00:18:15,190
So to understand which name goes best with

458
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:17,550
that. Which brings me to the other way of

459
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:20,030
getting feedback. Vetting name options is to

460
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:22,190
give people some sort of little summary of

461
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:23,950
what the brand is and then say,

462
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:25,710
give them like maybe your three best names

463
00:18:25,710 --> 00:18:29,070
and say, which of these fits that best.

464
00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:33,150
And those are better ways of checking on

465
00:18:33,150 --> 00:18:34,630
names than actually saying,

466
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:37,230
do you like it? Do you not like it because

467
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:38,590
we're just not equipped?

468
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:42,190
Um, so I've been all over the place.

469
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:43,310
Does that answer your question?

470
00:18:43,310 --> 00:18:44,350
Carol Cox:
Yes yes yes yes. Well,

471
00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:46,310
thank you for going through the process.

472
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:48,270
And I feel like this is the same thing when

473
00:18:48,270 --> 00:18:50,970
we work with our clients on their talks.

474
00:18:51,010 --> 00:18:52,610
You know, I have the board with all the

475
00:18:52,610 --> 00:18:55,070
post-it notes. And halfway through the three

476
00:18:55,070 --> 00:18:57,530
hour VIP day, that looks like Post-it notes

477
00:18:57,530 --> 00:18:59,210
exploded all over, you know,

478
00:18:59,250 --> 00:19:00,890
the room, but that's what it's supposed to

479
00:19:00,890 --> 00:19:03,770
look like because we're capturing so much and

480
00:19:03,770 --> 00:19:05,810
we're playing with different ideas and

481
00:19:05,810 --> 00:19:07,330
bringing in different stories.

482
00:19:07,330 --> 00:19:09,250
And then towards the end is when everything

483
00:19:09,290 --> 00:19:12,010
kind of gets organized and structured and we

484
00:19:12,050 --> 00:19:13,890
find the clear through line and,

485
00:19:13,930 --> 00:19:15,730
you know, we put everything in its place.

486
00:19:16,010 --> 00:19:18,450
And so I and I think for a lot of people,

487
00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:20,490
they, we're going to get to the AI

488
00:19:20,530 --> 00:19:22,090
conversation here in just a moment, because I

489
00:19:22,090 --> 00:19:23,690
really do want to talk about that. I feel

490
00:19:23,690 --> 00:19:27,130
like for a lot of people, they, they may come

491
00:19:27,130 --> 00:19:30,650
to this process trying to do it very linearly

492
00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:32,530
and very logically, like,

493
00:19:32,530 --> 00:19:34,250
I have to do this and this and this.

494
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:36,410
And this is kind of what AI also trains us

495
00:19:36,410 --> 00:19:39,050
now to do versus the more,

496
00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:40,690
you know, like, let's get a whole bunch of

497
00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:42,490
stuff out and kind of like you said,

498
00:19:42,530 --> 00:19:45,210
like piece, like find the different pieces

499
00:19:45,210 --> 00:19:46,930
and see where they go. Okay,

500
00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:48,170
so let me tell you about,

501
00:19:48,210 --> 00:19:49,330
let me tell the listeners about what

502
00:19:49,420 --> 00:19:50,980
happened. So I mentioned that.

503
00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:51,980
Yeah. Go ahead.

504
00:19:52,420 --> 00:19:53,780
Rebeca Arbona:
Yeah, I just as you were talking,

505
00:19:53,780 --> 00:19:56,660
I was thinking you and I both and anyone who

506
00:19:56,660 --> 00:19:59,980
does work like we do, we are we should all

507
00:19:59,980 --> 00:20:01,580
have stock in Post-it notes.

508
00:20:01,580 --> 00:20:04,620
We are all a wall full of Post-it notes.

509
00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:06,580
You know, a day with a wall full of without a

510
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:08,820
wall full of post-it notes is a wasted day.

511
00:20:08,860 --> 00:20:10,540
Like that's just how we do our work. I just

512
00:20:10,540 --> 00:20:11,580
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to jump.

513
00:20:11,660 --> 00:20:13,180
Carol Cox:
Yes. No, that is so true.

514
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:15,780
Rebeca Arbona:
It's it's so it's how our brains work.

515
00:20:15,780 --> 00:20:16,660
Now, you know.

516
00:20:17,340 --> 00:20:18,740
Carol Cox:
I should buy stock in 3 a.m..

517
00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:19,820
This is not advice.

518
00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:23,060
Rebeca Arbona:
But I started to say that.

519
00:20:23,060 --> 00:20:25,540
And then I thought, am I allowed to say that?

520
00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:27,500
Carol Cox:
That's the caveat. All right.

521
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,500
So I as I mentioned before,

522
00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:31,540
so Rebecca and I were on the Zoom call and I

523
00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:32,940
mentioned that I, you know, I think she, I

524
00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:34,580
don't know if you asked me about my book or I

525
00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:36,140
mentioned I was working on my book again,

526
00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:37,620
I've been, you know, working on it for a

527
00:20:37,620 --> 00:20:39,900
number of years. That's a whole nother side

528
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:40,940
story. And then I said,

529
00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:43,220
But I'm really struggling with the title of

530
00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:44,260
it, the name of the book.

531
00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:46,820
And Rebecca, you were so kind to say,

532
00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:49,200
well, send me kind of a blurb or what you

533
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,280
have. And I'm happy to take a look at it.

534
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:52,640
And I was like, oh my gosh, you don't have to

535
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,440
do that for me. Like, I know your services

536
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,040
are so valuable and your time is so valuable,

537
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,200
but you insisted.

538
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,680
So I said, okay, I'm going to take you up on

539
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,160
that, I really am.

540
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,720
And then it was about a week later, I finally

541
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,200
had a chance to kind of sit down,

542
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,160
find the blurb I took out.

543
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,080
I think I even took out the working title

544
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,720
that I had had because I didn't want to taint

545
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,840
you with it, but I just sent you.

546
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,720
I then just sent you the blurb and a little

547
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:15,880
bit more context.

548
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,440
And then about an hour or so after that,

549
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:20,480
I get a phone call.

550
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,440
But your cell phone number wasn't in my

551
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,480
contacts, so I didn't pick up because it goes

552
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,200
to voicemail automatically.

553
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,880
And then but I saw it said Cincinnati,

554
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,560
and I know you live in Cincinnati.

555
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,960
So I looked at the the call and I was like,

556
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,920
oh, after, you know, you left the message.

557
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:36,760
And I was like, oh, I think that might be

558
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:37,960
Rebeca calling.

559
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,320
Right. So I listened to the message and you

560
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:41,400
were so excited. Like,

561
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,920
I have the, I think I have the name and I

562
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,320
want to share it with you.

563
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,780
And so then I called you as I was driving to

564
00:21:48,820 --> 00:21:51,020
an event and we had a great conversation,

565
00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:54,420
and you told me the name that you had become,

566
00:21:54,460 --> 00:21:55,780
that you had come up with.

567
00:21:56,140 --> 00:22:00,100
And here's the reaction that I had in my

568
00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:02,700
mind, and that I verbalized to you something

569
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:06,140
like, oh my God, that is so obvious,

570
00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:09,180
yet it's so good.

571
00:22:10,660 --> 00:22:12,700
I never would have come up with that on my

572
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:14,820
own. Clearly I hadn't over the past five

573
00:22:14,820 --> 00:22:16,500
years. I never would have come up with it.

574
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:19,340
Chatgpt certainly hadn't come anywhere close

575
00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:21,220
to anything like that.

576
00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:23,580
And so I said, okay, I need to have you come

577
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:25,500
on the podcast. I want you to talk about

578
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,060
this. How did this happen?

579
00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:28,940
Was this like a bolt of lightning from the

580
00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:31,060
sky? You know, like, this is where I feel

581
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:32,660
like so much of it is art and science.

582
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:34,900
Like, obviously there's a science to the

583
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:37,100
brainstorming and the creativity and getting

584
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:39,380
a lot of stuff out. But I do feel like a lot

585
00:22:39,380 --> 00:22:41,500
of it, like is art and maybe like you said,

586
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:42,380
a little bit of luck.

587
00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:44,940
Rebeca Arbona:
Yeah. So, so, you know,

588
00:22:44,980 --> 00:22:47,260
I'm talking about, oh, 600 names at least

589
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,080
that's for, you know, like trying to name a

590
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:52,600
salsa brand or, you know,

591
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,520
like some of the things that I've named a

592
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,440
cheese or a tequila, right.

593
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,480
Yours is the second book I've named besides

594
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,400
my own. How it happened,

595
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,320
by the way, is I told you the name of my book

596
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:06,880
because we were talking about the naming

597
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,160
retreat with Tiffany Hawk,

598
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,160
and you both said, that's such a great name.

599
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,160
And I said, well, thank you. You know, I

600
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,520
named things and you were like,

601
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,000
oh, you do. I have a book?

602
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,840
So great. So with the other book and with

603
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,680
you, in both cases, it was just kind of a a

604
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,800
bolt. And so it took me about 15 minutes.

605
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,240
It wasn't a huge process.

606
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,720
I don't know if all books would be like that,

607
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,280
but it was also, you know,

608
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,360
years of experience and a mini version of

609
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,400
that process. And so I actually,

610
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,360
you know, like I said, I had the,

611
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:38,840
the background, the blurb,

612
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,880
and then I started thinking about the things

613
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,720
you were saying that weren't in the blurb.

614
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,600
So you want me to talk about like the.

615
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:46,080
Yes.

616
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,290
Carol Cox:
Yeah, yeah. You. Yeah.

617
00:23:47,290 --> 00:23:48,690
We can share. This is not a secret,

618
00:23:48,730 --> 00:23:49,570
so it's fine.

619
00:23:49,610 --> 00:23:52,010
Rebeca Arbona:
So, okay, so I started pulling out the themes

620
00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:53,730
and thinking through what you were trying to

621
00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:55,250
see. And that's when I realized that the

622
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:57,490
blurb wasn't I didn't have a strategy.

623
00:23:57,810 --> 00:24:00,490
And so I said, I rewrote the blurb.

624
00:24:00,490 --> 00:24:02,370
Another way you could say it is I wrote a

625
00:24:02,370 --> 00:24:04,730
strategy that was sort of based on the blurb,

626
00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:07,650
but it was. And then just for myself,

627
00:24:08,010 --> 00:24:10,490
you were talking not in the blurb,

628
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:13,650
but to me about the expert trap that you in

629
00:24:13,650 --> 00:24:16,290
your practice talk to people about avoiding

630
00:24:16,290 --> 00:24:18,610
the expert trap. And so I was thinking a lot

631
00:24:18,610 --> 00:24:20,050
about expert trap saying,

632
00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:22,250
okay, and you said that was negative.

633
00:24:22,290 --> 00:24:23,730
You didn't want that in the name. I'm like,

634
00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:26,850
okay, why? Well, I do think that we think

635
00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:28,490
we're supposed to be experts,

636
00:24:28,490 --> 00:24:30,770
but we also feel nervous about putting

637
00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:31,930
ourselves up as experts.

638
00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:33,450
There's just this like tension.

639
00:24:33,730 --> 00:24:35,210
And you were talking about thought

640
00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:36,850
leadership. I said, well,

641
00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:37,970
what does that mean to have thought

642
00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:39,930
leadership? And so then I started thinking

643
00:24:39,930 --> 00:24:43,690
about brainstorming off of ideas and

644
00:24:43,690 --> 00:24:45,850
thoughts. And then with all that,

645
00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:47,430
again, thinking strategically,

646
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:50,150
I thought, well, her brand is speaking your

647
00:24:50,150 --> 00:24:53,310
brand. And then that's when it came to me.

648
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:54,310
Do you want to say it?

649
00:24:54,670 --> 00:24:56,470
Carol Cox:
Yeah. No, I want you to say it.

650
00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:57,950
Rebeca Arbona:
Okay. So then I thought,

651
00:24:57,950 --> 00:25:00,590
oh, the book is called Speaking of Ideas.

652
00:25:01,470 --> 00:25:03,390
And then I think it's really important.

653
00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:06,590
Make me come back to this to describe a name.

654
00:25:06,790 --> 00:25:08,430
So it was speaking of ideas,

655
00:25:08,430 --> 00:25:10,270
colon and I'm sure you're going to tweak

656
00:25:10,270 --> 00:25:11,750
this, but how I envisioned it.

657
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:16,030
Colon transcending the expert trap to become

658
00:25:16,030 --> 00:25:17,950
an inspirational thought leader.

659
00:25:19,550 --> 00:25:20,990
And it hangs together.

660
00:25:20,990 --> 00:25:22,990
And so I want to talk about names versus

661
00:25:22,990 --> 00:25:24,990
descriptors. This is a really important part

662
00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:27,230
of something I talk about a lot in my naming

663
00:25:27,230 --> 00:25:30,270
and do a lot with my clients. So every name,

664
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:32,270
like legally you have a name and then you

665
00:25:32,270 --> 00:25:34,270
have what we call a generic descriptor.

666
00:25:34,510 --> 00:25:37,710
So what is this a MacBook I'm on?

667
00:25:37,710 --> 00:25:40,270
It's a MacBook is a laptop.

668
00:25:40,510 --> 00:25:42,790
Tide is a laundry detergent.

669
00:25:42,790 --> 00:25:44,910
So that descriptor, you don't have to

670
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:46,730
trademark it. You don't own it.

671
00:25:46,770 --> 00:25:48,090
Other people can use it.

672
00:25:48,570 --> 00:25:50,530
So people don't pay that much attention to

673
00:25:50,530 --> 00:25:53,490
it. But it can be a very important source of

674
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:56,490
power. And so for some names like say,

675
00:25:56,490 --> 00:25:59,730
you think you need to be very descriptive

676
00:25:59,970 --> 00:26:02,410
because people you're doing something new and

677
00:26:02,410 --> 00:26:04,050
people don't know what it is. Well, maybe

678
00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:05,610
you'll write a little something that's a

679
00:26:05,610 --> 00:26:06,690
little more emotional,

680
00:26:06,850 --> 00:26:09,250
or maybe there's a lot of people and you want

681
00:26:09,290 --> 00:26:10,930
to stand out. So your name is pretty

682
00:26:10,930 --> 00:26:13,770
emotional or like poetic.

683
00:26:14,170 --> 00:26:17,570
Well, let's have a really clear dumbest to

684
00:26:17,610 --> 00:26:19,570
rocks description right under that name.

685
00:26:19,570 --> 00:26:21,610
So people will get what it is.

686
00:26:21,610 --> 00:26:23,090
So for you, I was like,

687
00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:25,130
speaking of ideas from speaking your brand,

688
00:26:25,170 --> 00:26:27,290
I get that, but we have to make sure we

689
00:26:27,330 --> 00:26:29,130
ground it with a nice explanation of what

690
00:26:29,130 --> 00:26:31,490
that is. So it's not the same as a brand with

691
00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:33,850
a book, but that semicolon,

692
00:26:33,970 --> 00:26:35,970
it's, it's doing kind of the same job.

693
00:26:36,250 --> 00:26:37,410
Where do we go here?

694
00:26:37,450 --> 00:26:40,290
How do we wrap it up with something to make a

695
00:26:40,290 --> 00:26:43,010
whole story? So that's what we did.

696
00:26:43,050 --> 00:26:45,700
And I'm so happy that you were excited too.

697
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:47,500
Carol Cox:
Oh, I was so excited.

698
00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:48,900
And and here's why.

699
00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:51,420
So the title, speaking of ideas,

700
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:54,500
the reason that I got so excited about it

701
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:57,860
because I had been struggling with the

702
00:26:57,860 --> 00:27:01,380
balance between the book being about public

703
00:27:01,380 --> 00:27:03,180
speaking, clearly that's,

704
00:27:03,620 --> 00:27:05,540
you know, so much of the work that we do,

705
00:27:05,540 --> 00:27:08,020
but I wanted it to be bigger than that

706
00:27:08,020 --> 00:27:10,820
because really what we're about is your

707
00:27:10,820 --> 00:27:13,780
thought leadership, bringing more ideas into

708
00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:17,180
the conversation, wanting to have women be

709
00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:18,860
part of the important conversations that are

710
00:27:18,860 --> 00:27:20,780
happening in your business AI,

711
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:23,180
tech, politics, government,

712
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:25,140
healthcare, whatever it happens to be.

713
00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:26,580
So it's really about ideas.

714
00:27:26,580 --> 00:27:28,180
And it just so happens that public speaking

715
00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:32,220
is the channel that we focus on for those

716
00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:34,180
ideas. But I couldn't figure out how,

717
00:27:34,620 --> 00:27:36,540
besides in the blurb, how to bring this,

718
00:27:36,620 --> 00:27:38,540
how to bring ideas into it.

719
00:27:38,540 --> 00:27:41,540
And here's what ChatGPT and its different

720
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:44,340
permutations, basically what the working

721
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,000
title had been was something like The Expert

722
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,160
Trap How women Can Break Free and Lead with

723
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,840
impact. And I'm like, oh,

724
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:55,720
I'm just saying that like,

725
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,920
just I don't I don't like it.

726
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,960
It's like all the, the like buzzwords that

727
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,800
just is like the opposite of what I feel like

728
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,560
my brand speaking your brand and our mission

729
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,240
is, and I didn't want the expert trap to be

730
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,280
the main title. I don't,

731
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,880
I like it in the subtitle. I don't want to be

732
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,480
the main title because again, I didn't want

733
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,080
to lead with something negative.

734
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,240
I wanted it to be a positive vision that

735
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,880
women could have for the book.

736
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,960
So that's where I was coming from.

737
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,160
So that's why, speaking of ideas,

738
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,840
was so exciting for me and something that I

739
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,200
literally had never thought of and would

740
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,880
never have come up with on my own.

741
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,560
Rebeca Arbona:
So you asked me why?

742
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:41,280
Why do good names sometimes seem like both

743
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,320
that they came from nowhere and that they're

744
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,180
so obvious. And I had a boss years ago.

745
00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:48,620
His name is Darryl Travis.

746
00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:51,100
Really amazing gentleman.

747
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:53,860
And he talked a lot about insights.

748
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:57,020
Are the unthought known that a great insight.

749
00:28:57,020 --> 00:28:59,780
You go, oh, I hadn't thought of that,

750
00:29:00,180 --> 00:29:02,620
but I knew it, but I didn't know I knew it.

751
00:29:02,620 --> 00:29:05,260
And I think that a great name can be like

752
00:29:05,260 --> 00:29:07,500
that. Where like this one,

753
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:08,900
you were like, oh, of course.

754
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:11,700
But also you hadn't seen it because it just,

755
00:29:12,060 --> 00:29:13,460
it tapped into everything,

756
00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:16,820
but it just hadn't connected it that way yet.

757
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:20,780
And I think AI can't do that very often.

758
00:29:20,780 --> 00:29:23,700
Maybe sometimes, but not very often.

759
00:29:23,740 --> 00:29:27,660
Carol Cox:
Yeah. You know, I, I use AI all the time.

760
00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:29,260
I have since ChatGPT came out,

761
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:30,820
I have a background in technology and

762
00:29:30,820 --> 00:29:32,500
software development. So I'm,

763
00:29:32,540 --> 00:29:34,220
you know, definitely not anti AI,

764
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:36,620
but I have found for my own use,

765
00:29:36,620 --> 00:29:40,620
especially say this year that using it for

766
00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:43,720
what I call downstream assets is a better use

767
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,640
of it. So you already have your signature

768
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,040
talk or your message or your name or whatever

769
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,800
it is you're working on. Then you say, okay,

770
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,240
here you go. You know,

771
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,520
AI, you know, go create some other downstream

772
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,240
asset from it that I can then work from on

773
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,000
that. So I think that's a better use.

774
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,400
Plus some other other,

775
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,760
um, projects that I'm working on versus I

776
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,200
feel like a lot of people are wanting AI to

777
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,560
do the thinking for them to come up with

778
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,280
their thought leadership message or to come

779
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,840
up with their signature talk.

780
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,080
And it's like, AI can't do that because it's

781
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,360
the average of the internet,

782
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,960
and it is just taking all of the different

783
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,560
things that it knows and trying,

784
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,000
trying to give you something that is going to

785
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,000
make you happy also, like,

786
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:28,880
right.

787
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,480
Rebeca Arbona:
I think that's exactly right. I think that

788
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,080
it's if you are going to use AI,

789
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,640
it's for execution.

790
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,640
I use it for research.

791
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,520
When I use it almost always,

792
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,210
hey, can you find me blank?

793
00:30:43,250 --> 00:30:46,850
Right. But ideas, like you said,

794
00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:49,010
it's the average. How I think of it is that

795
00:30:49,010 --> 00:30:50,810
it's a pattern recognition machine.

796
00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:53,490
It's only looking at what already exists and

797
00:30:53,490 --> 00:30:55,730
it's saying, what are the things that come up

798
00:30:55,730 --> 00:30:58,730
a lot? Well, that's helpful for some tasks,

799
00:30:58,730 --> 00:31:00,930
but not coming up with a unique idea.

800
00:31:00,970 --> 00:31:02,610
You can't look backwards for that.

801
00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:07,250
So it's just, I mean, something like this.

802
00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:12,290
Speaking of ideas is quite obvious,

803
00:31:12,890 --> 00:31:14,370
quite right in front of us.

804
00:31:14,370 --> 00:31:16,330
But just like we couldn't see it,

805
00:31:16,370 --> 00:31:17,810
it couldn't see it, you know?

806
00:31:19,530 --> 00:31:20,770
Carol Cox:
Yeah, exactly.

807
00:31:20,810 --> 00:31:21,290
Rebeca Arbona:
Strategy.

808
00:31:21,330 --> 00:31:24,210
Carol Cox:
Yes. Yeah. And because it will just and it

809
00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:26,450
would ChatGPT would just keep giving me the

810
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:28,930
same kind of titles over and over again.

811
00:31:28,930 --> 00:31:31,370
But instead of using the word lead,

812
00:31:31,370 --> 00:31:32,730
it would say something like,

813
00:31:32,930 --> 00:31:34,490
you know, transform.

814
00:31:34,530 --> 00:31:36,410
Like it would just switch out words. But it

815
00:31:36,410 --> 00:31:39,330
really wasn't giving me anything new and

816
00:31:39,330 --> 00:31:40,650
different and unique.

817
00:31:40,650 --> 00:31:43,630
It was just giving me variations of the same

818
00:31:43,630 --> 00:31:44,950
that already existed.

819
00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:47,190
Rebeca Arbona:
Yeah. And I think what I did,

820
00:31:47,310 --> 00:31:48,630
um, again, it was, you know,

821
00:31:48,670 --> 00:31:52,790
obviously a very, uh, abbreviated process,

822
00:31:53,070 --> 00:31:54,830
but I thought about, well,

823
00:31:55,070 --> 00:31:59,310
how do we people who are wanting this work

824
00:31:59,310 --> 00:32:01,510
from you? How do we want to feel?

825
00:32:01,670 --> 00:32:04,110
And I thought, uh, oh,

826
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:06,070
inspirational thought leader.

827
00:32:06,110 --> 00:32:08,150
Yeah. That's aspirational.

828
00:32:08,150 --> 00:32:09,350
That's what I want to be.

829
00:32:09,670 --> 00:32:11,510
So, you know, all these were the threads that

830
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:12,430
I was pulling on.

831
00:32:13,550 --> 00:32:14,910
Carol Cox:
Well, Rebeca, I am so grateful.

832
00:32:14,910 --> 00:32:17,110
I'm so grateful that we reconnected and that

833
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:18,750
you, you gave you, you know,

834
00:32:18,790 --> 00:32:21,590
you very kindly said to me your what you're

835
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:25,070
working on and that it just it worked out.

836
00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:26,470
I just feel like that was the day,

837
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:28,550
the day that I sent it was the day that your

838
00:32:28,550 --> 00:32:29,990
brain was ready, you know,

839
00:32:30,030 --> 00:32:32,230
to receive it and to come up with this.

840
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:33,870
And I mentioned to you when we were having

841
00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:35,430
the conversation, when you shared the book

842
00:32:35,470 --> 00:32:37,870
title with me, that I have been a lot of the

843
00:32:37,870 --> 00:32:39,670
reason I've been struggling with writing the

844
00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:42,890
book is because I was torn with the direction

845
00:32:42,890 --> 00:32:44,650
to go in. Is it about public speaking?

846
00:32:44,650 --> 00:32:46,570
Is it about thought leadership? Is it about

847
00:32:46,570 --> 00:32:48,450
ideas? Is it about the expert trap?

848
00:32:48,490 --> 00:32:50,850
You know? And and for a lot of authors,

849
00:32:50,850 --> 00:32:53,250
I know they don't need the title to write

850
00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:54,450
their book. They're like, don't worry about

851
00:32:54,450 --> 00:32:56,010
the title. It will come later.

852
00:32:56,010 --> 00:32:58,970
But for me, the title sets the direction,

853
00:32:59,010 --> 00:33:00,810
the through line of the book.

854
00:33:00,850 --> 00:33:03,690
And without that, I was floundering because I

855
00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:05,330
needed that strong through line. And now that

856
00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:08,930
I have that, it really has re-energized me to

857
00:33:08,970 --> 00:33:10,850
work on the book, because I can see now the

858
00:33:10,850 --> 00:33:13,890
architecture of it in a way that I wasn't

859
00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:14,810
able to before.

860
00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:18,010
Rebeca Arbona:
I'm so honored that you feel that way.

861
00:33:18,410 --> 00:33:20,130
I feel that way about my book,

862
00:33:20,130 --> 00:33:23,090
too. I need to understand the target that I'm

863
00:33:23,090 --> 00:33:26,130
trying to hit. I'm about the process,

864
00:33:26,490 --> 00:33:29,850
but I could just churn forever in process if

865
00:33:29,850 --> 00:33:31,850
I didn't have. I guess because I'm a

866
00:33:31,850 --> 00:33:33,610
strategist, what is my objective?

867
00:33:33,650 --> 00:33:35,490
What what am I trying to write?

868
00:33:35,770 --> 00:33:37,970
I'm trying to write a book called this.

869
00:33:37,970 --> 00:33:39,530
Okay, now I know what I'm doing,

870
00:33:39,530 --> 00:33:41,790
so I get that. I think I'm the same way.

871
00:33:42,510 --> 00:33:43,870
Maybe not for a novel,

872
00:33:43,870 --> 00:33:45,350
but for a non-fiction book.

873
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:47,190
I think you need to understand it.

874
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:49,790
Carol Cox:
That is true. A novel might be different.

875
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:53,270
Rebeca Arbona:
I think you might have to let it unfold.

876
00:33:53,270 --> 00:33:55,750
Somebody told me today that George R.R.

877
00:33:55,790 --> 00:33:59,190
Martin, that he writes and writes and writes

878
00:33:59,190 --> 00:34:00,670
and the book just happens.

879
00:34:00,950 --> 00:34:03,710
Okay? He's a novelist and he's a genius,

880
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:06,670
okay? But for me, I need to know where I'm

881
00:34:06,670 --> 00:34:07,110
headed.

882
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:09,630
Carol Cox:
Yes. We need the Post-it notes.

883
00:34:09,670 --> 00:34:11,710
Right in order.

884
00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:14,190
Rebeca Arbona:
There you go. There you.

885
00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:17,150
Carol Cox:
Go. Well, Rebeca, I have so enjoyed this

886
00:34:17,150 --> 00:34:19,150
conversation. I know my listeners have gotten

887
00:34:19,150 --> 00:34:20,630
a lot out of it. And for those of you

888
00:34:20,630 --> 00:34:23,830
listening, if you would like Rebeca's genius

889
00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:26,270
in brand strategy and naming,

890
00:34:26,270 --> 00:34:28,190
definitely check her out.

891
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:30,230
There's a link in the show notes to her

892
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:32,150
website, brand true.com.

893
00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:34,110
Also connect with her on LinkedIn because I

894
00:34:34,110 --> 00:34:36,030
know, Rebeca, you're pretty active on

895
00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:37,630
LinkedIn as well.

896
00:34:37,670 --> 00:34:39,230
Anything else you'd like to share with our

897
00:34:39,230 --> 00:34:39,870
listeners?

898
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,000
Rebeca Arbona:
I don't think so.

899
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,840
I mean, it was just so enjoyable to be on

900
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,600
here again. I really appreciate the

901
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:48,760
opportunity and I.

902
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,920
I was so afraid you wouldn't send me.

903
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,480
I just knew that I wanted to give it a try

904
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,520
with your book. And I'm so honored that you

905
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,400
liked. When I came up with. It was a blast.

906
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,680
Some people do crossword puzzles for me.

907
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:00,440
This was fun.

908
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,680
Carol Cox:
Well, you will definitely be in my

909
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,480
acknowledgments. Delightful.

910
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,200
Rebeca Arbona:
Delightful. Thank you again,

911
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:07,640
Carol.

912
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,160
Carol Cox:
Oh, and for those of you listening,

913
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,320
if you haven't yet taken our speaker

914
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,680
archetype quiz, definitely do so because

915
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,520
that's going to give you an insight into

916
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,880
which of the four speaker archetypes you are.

917
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,320
That I've identified is so fun.

918
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,640
Multiple choice quiz.

919
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,800
It just takes a few minutes to get your

920
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,120
results. You can take this quiz at speaking

921
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,640
yourbrand.com/quiz.

922
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:30,880
Until next time.

923
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:31,960
Thanks for listening.