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Welcome to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Waterson on AM950, the progressive voice of Minnesota.
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And I am very happy to be here with you today, but a little disappointed thanks to the rain.
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We were supposed to be downtown at Loring Park, at Pride, where Twin Cities AM 950 is a big supporter of Pride and has a big booth there.
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And we were going to be broadcasting live, but there was a big thunderstorm for those who are in the Twin Cities or not in the Twin Cities.
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We got rained out at our booth and pivoted like all pros do.
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Thank you to my two guests, my two clients here today, who were just lovely and saying, No problem, we'll meet you at the studio instead.
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So today I have a father-son duo.
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John and Penn, who have been clients of mine, continued clients of mine.
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So welcome to the show.
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Thanks, Colleen.
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Thank you.
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And this is Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watterston, but it is stems from my organizing business, Space by Space Organizing, which is a Twin Cities-based home organizing business.
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And I am very proud to be on this uh this network that is the Progressive Voice of Minnesota, and among other very open-minded, forward-thinking, help move the lever on inclusivity and different initiatives that help us all feel, you know, proud to be Minnesotans.
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But specifically, pride is for the community that is.
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I am I am an ally of the pride, the LGBTQ community and a supporter of love uh in Minneapolis and beyond.
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And today we're celebrating that, especially in Minneapolis.
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And Penn, you identify as a member of the community.
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So what does pride mean for you?
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And while we weren't able to do this together, I got a beautiful picture of you all yesterday at Pride for six hours.
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So maybe since we can't be there and having the energy of the festival in our show, we can bring some energy of yesterday's festival to our show.
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So tell me about what Pride means to you and what people can expect when they do go.
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Alright, so I'm Penn.
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I am in a non-binary trans mask and use he him.
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Um I I've been to Pride before down at Loring Park, and we went on a sun on the Saturday that wasn't as busy, so it was more easier to do it.
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And my favorite part is just seeing all the different types of community members.
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It's I live in uh more of the suburbs, so I don't see as many people usually just in the bougie homes, but seeing so many queer um community members and seeing them so happy, especially older ones, that makes me so happy to see older queer members being able to express themselves when they couldn't before.
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Um so like there's awesome drag shows, there's awesome live music.
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Um one of my favorite things is going to uh booths of people who make their like own homemade stuff and always trying to support the queer community there because we all gotta help out in giving some money to them.
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Um but yeah, it's just it's so awesome seeing everyone there, seeing everyone happy and just celebrating existing.
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Yeah, existing and and thriving and really finding community among other people.
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It's so important to feel that sense of belonging.
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And you know, right where you live to be able to have your your own um you know, festival and parade and just be able to support each other and be supported by people who are aren't our allies and friends and and um all across the board.
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But John, you are one of the most supportive parents I've ever come across.
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And you you went yesterday.
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Was it that's not your first time?
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It was not my first time.
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So I've been with um a couple of the members of my family, I think a few times before.
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Um and so I I also identify as an ally, and I am a parent of a rainbow family uh and supportive of all of them, and it's you know, it's been a constant learning and adjusting and supporting, you know, over my life for my my three wonderful children.
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And uh and Penn is my eldest.
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I've been to Pride most often with Penn.
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Um my middle child also went to Pride um last year, I think it was, uh, with us.
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And we just had this glorious gathering of what were like ten of us there, I think, uh, and all identifying in different ways.
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And it really was, you know, a celebration.
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And uh I just love the range of people being who they are and celebrating who they are.
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And you know, and I'm a I'm I I work with color as my job and just all the glorious literal and metaphorical rainbows of pride.
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It just it just brings me joy.
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Just walking around makes me happy at pride.
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And uh the vibe the vibe was there in full force yesterday.
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So yeah, everybody talks about the energy, you know, just total amazing energy, whether it is for somebody who identifies as as any members of the community and craves that feeling of being among others who are accepting and open and being who they are.
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But then I think also people who are in more of the cis world or the, you know, they've not had a feeling of exclusion for who they are, but love being able to go and be part of this celebration of of everybody getting to be who they are.
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And and we want it to be, you know, every day that you can show up that way.
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But it is good to have these um these things to look forward to.
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And this, you know, AM 950 put a lot of effort into their booth and into the planning to be able to do live shows there and really be in the community.
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So I think it's important that we give some love, even though we aren't we aren't among among the other tents and the other um the the pride goers of the weekend.
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So we'll have to do it another time.
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But here we are in our regular studio, and we are recording a show.
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So Space by Space Organizing is all about helping people make sense of stuff, help them get out of their own way in life, you know, tackle every project as it is, you know, differently, unique to each client.
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And John, you reached out to me about maybe two months ago now.
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And tell me what made you reach out to me.
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Yeah.
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And how that we'll we'll go down from there.
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So we had an impending change coming to our family in that uh Penn's significant other, who they've been with for over 10 years now.
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Um there's non-binary and named Staff and they use the of them.
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There you go.
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Saf was this awesome significant other living in Seattle, was going to come live with us.
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And the plan was uh to the plan was to move the living space for Penn downstairs um where they could be with Staff and have more space than their very small bedroom upstairs.
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And the challenge for me was the downstairs had moved into an area where that was that was the dumping ground of various cleanouts and you know organizing things upstairs, and it wasn't a great living space.
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And we really didn't want to move a new person in to an immediate downer space full of clutter.
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And so my goal was I needed to help transform this downstairs, and I just didn't have the ability to do it myself or the time, the spoons, the energy to be able to do that.
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So I asked my network who could help, um, and in particular who could be sensitive to um, you know, queer, autistic, neurofascinating, interesting people.
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And my network said, you need to call Colleen.
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Uh I think she'd be great for this.
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And uh I set up an appointment and I did a follow-up call.
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And Colleen looked at my address and said, actually, could I be there in 20 minutes and see what we're dealing with?
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And she got in her car and came down.
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And from there, we got together a plan.
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And we've had, I think, four sessions now of transformation, and we're not done yet, but it enabled the first three sessions really enabled having a welcoming space for staff to come live with us and for Penn to move downstairs and start building a home in the lower part of our of our house.
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I remember this first call because you came in through the website, through our form.
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You went in and you you did it correctly.
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You know, you filled out the form.
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Um, I think I scheduled a time to chat with you, and I called you as planned, and I'm like trying to wrap my head around what you've got going on because you're explaining the situation, you know, and bonus kit is coming, and we want it to be inviting, the basement's not working.
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I'm like, I think I just need to wrap my head around this in person.
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And so I plugged your address in my phone.
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I had the time right then.
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I'm like, I'll be right there.
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Is that okay?
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You were as open.
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I mean, most people be like, no, I want to clean up.
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But the fun thing about a consult with me is that you don't clean up.
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Like, I have to see it as it is, because if you clean up, I don't know what I'm walking into.
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It would have been difficult to clean up this situation too quick.
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But you were so open to, yeah, sure.
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You know, and that's been you this whole time, John.
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It's just this like, I want to do right by my kids, I want to do right by my wife, I want to do right by my family, I want to, I want this space to work for all of us.
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You know, you took on that house at a very different point of life, and now you've put a lot of pressure on it, and you want to stay in it together, but this isn't working.
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And so I come to this consult and it was just, I got it was overwhelming.
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There was a lot, and and I call it a jumping ground, but I what I like to say sometimes with people is like you and everyone else, because we often are in our own worlds and we're like, I'm the only one who has how how have I let it get this way?
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How have I let it get this way?
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How am I not able to do this myself?
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You know, we all put it on ourselves, but it's like you and everyone else.
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Like you are not the only person who has a dumping ground in their house.
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And sometimes they come in the form of drawers or closets or rooms or entire basements.
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Like I moved into my parents' home later in life and moved into the basement, and it took a lot of effort to get the basement because a lot of times, too, if kids come and go from the house, I was seeing as an adult in my 30s the things that I had left behind for my parents in my 20s.
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You know, every move I made, if I didn't take something with me, it didn't get donated or redistributed at the time.
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It got dumped in my parents' basement.
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So, and as a lot of people have toys and things that, you know, we age out of as we're raising kids, um, those things don't just, unless you're really diligent about getting things out of the house, which some people are, um it just it just doesn't go anywhere.
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And then it compiles.
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So that's what I saw as this basement was like a space where everybody had just for written off as a space in the house.
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So then you're putting pressure on just the top house for everybody.
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And then the basement's no longer of use, but whose project is it to tackle?
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So, Penn, from your point of view, from that first part of this, and so three days we were in the basement, Alicia, myself, and you for the most part, John, and then Pen, you kind of came in more and more along the way, and now we're in your space and it's you, but focusing on that basement, like what was your feeling about it, about your feeling about welcoming staff to it as it was before we came along, the process of clearing it, having your dad ask for it, like what all went into it from your point of view?
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Um, well, because my room is so tiny, we have tried to clean this out before, and that is just made it have bins of stuff just sitting in the basement.
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And of course, I put bins of stuff, and that includes our supplies and stuff, but then I want to do art, so then I would buy more stuff, and it would just be a compounding loop of that things.
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Um so it's it was super hard to try and get through it all myself.
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Whenever you have your own stuff, it's like it's such a big hurdle to go through because it's just so many mental blocks for it.
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Um But yeah, I waited until you guys had a much more because it was a lot of my stuff, but then just a lot of clothes and stuff, because it just we just hard to keep up with it all.
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Um, and the only time you really go downstairs is to see the laundry room, so it's kind of that's kind of how it started to work.
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Um but then once you got more stuff clear and I could help sort stuff as well, and you could like say yes or no and stuff.
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And Alicia was super helpful.
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I loved her a lot.
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How she could take all my things and put them in their own little categories because I really like that type of stuff, having it all organized and in sections where I can go through them.
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And as you said, you can shop for your own things, right?
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You can see all the stuff that I got, and I'm like, oh, I don't need to buy more of that.
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I don't need to buy more of this for a while, and I have all this stuff I can use now, which is it's just having it all allocated in one area makes it so much easier to handle by yours not by yourself because you guys are helping you, but handle as being present there.
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I am beaming right now because so if anyone's watching on my face is not to the camera that we have in this little studio, but um it means so much to me to hear you share that, but also say some of the things I say, like shop your own closet, shop your own stuff.
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So many times you and everybody else, you know, oh, I want to paint.
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It's a lot easier to go and buy$10,$20 worth of new paints.
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You know, the thing that we want to buy is less money than the work to go find the paints to go sort through the thing.
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And often when we go to sort for the thing or find the thing, we get distracted.
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Um, Neurospice likes to do that to us too.
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So it's like then it's frustrating when you get derailed on your way.
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I was sharing that I have a step stool in every room that I might need a step stool in.
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And they're little ones and big ones, you know.
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Some are just those little like$8.99 from Home Goods, one step because that's all I need for where I am.
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But if I don't have a step stool there and I need to go grab it five rooms away, or you know, sometimes five steps away, I'll see something else along the way and want to work on that.
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When it is our own house, we can get distracted by things.
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So I love that you picked up on that and you did.
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You became um, you know, kind of were doing this for you, but you were further away from the effort.
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And it was like this visual that allowed us to see your buy-in to what we were doing that was really rewarding for Alicia and myself, and I think for you too.
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Yeah, no, exactly.
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I mean, part of the block for me was I didn't have the right knowledge to know what to do with all of Penn's things.
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Of there was the fear of I was going to throw things away or give things away, and I was gonna pick the wrong thing.
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And then Penn was gonna say, that was really important to me, and you got rid of it.
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So I think day one was day one was huge because we got through a lot of clothes and things.
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We're gonna take a quick break live here.
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We'll be right back and we'll keep going on all the things we got through.
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Welcome back to Starting Through Life with Colleen Watterston.
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This is our first time ever recording the show live.
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So if anybody's like, oh, that sounds a little uh glitchy, it's not we're perfect, but uh we are getting used to this whole end on this exact spot, start on this exact spot.
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Um, and I am with two lovely clients, father, son, duo.
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We've got John and Penn.
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And not in the studio is a very important person, Staff, who is Penn's partner and really inspired this whole effort.
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So if you were here for the last segment, we talked about how John reached out and said, I got a kid moving down to the basement, the basement's been at the dumping ground, I need help, I don't know where to start.
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I'm ready, I'm I'm here for this.
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And I'm like, who is this energetic father?
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I drove to his house, I see the house, I'm like, we got this.
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It's gonna take a lot, but we got this.
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So, John, give just kind of that like if you were telling someone for the first time what we did in the basement in the the course of a few weeks.
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Yeah.
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And really your role within it, too.
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Yeah, and my role changed over the the the three first visits, um, and in a good way, in that uh I was there the entire time.
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Uh my back felt it the next day.
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Uh we put you in a chair the second day.
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Yeah, we did we did.
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We we learned, we learned and adapted.
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But the the things that happened to him on the first day was we went through a lot of clothes and we kind of did a triaging of the space and made it so it wasn't as intimidating, actually made a corridor and you know, to be able to get there and started clearing clearing some things.
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And it just went from I have no idea how to start this and how to, you know, and and how to tackle it, and I'm scared to you know throw away something that shouldn't be, to okay, this is workable.
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And gradually over the next two, involving Penn more in the process, and just you know, each day, at the end of the day, we all felt good about where we were at the stopping point.
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And I think that was important.
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There was just encouragement to do the next week, and then encouragement to do the next week.
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And we're not done yet, but I'm encouraged and I'm confident that the end result is going to be great.
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Whenever that is, however that is, we have a working process and we'll keep doing that until the entire bottom floor is transformed, and then we move for the for the rest of the house.
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And we have moved upstairs, but we also, in moving upstairs, started downstairs by saying, okay, where's this at now?
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You know, it's been a month or at least a handful, a few weeks since I was there before I lose track of time.
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But we did do three weeks in a row, six-hour days.
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Three of us, whether it was John in the lead or Pence, sometimes there was four, sometimes there was two, with just Alicia and myself.
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Um, but so it took a lot of time, and it still takes more time, but it was going through so many items.
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There was quite a bit of trash, quite a bit of donate.
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We did do a little bit of reselling.
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Um, but it was a lot of tackling.
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And I think from my perspective of you, John, is I you are just such a epitome of loving parent and of just this want to make space for my kids to be who they are.
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Um, want to support them in in having that space, you know, within the limited space within the square footage of a house, but but then also being like willing to know this is not my my strong suit, you know, like I think I need support and reaching out for the support and then, you know, graciously accepting it and and investing in it.
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But I had also seen you are very pragmatic.
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You had bought shelves, you know, you had these very heavy-duty shelves in the garage that had casters on them.
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You had many uh containers, many good plastic bins with the clasps.
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We got rid of a lot of the containers that had been broken or were opaque and you couldn't see in them.
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A lot of times for people, if you can't see what's inside and it's deep, especially, you're never gonna re-access that stuff.
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You know, it's it's the clear bins are really great for a lot of people.
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For some people who don't want to see what they have and just put it away and put a label on it, the the non-clear bins, but you had bought so many things that could be helpful.
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So I'm like, we don't need to bring new things, we just need to use these.
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:04.319
And I remember that first day, knowing we need to get one of these shelves rolled in.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.720
Like we need to start bringing some order.
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:15.039
So it switched at one point was okay, Alicia, you're gonna start making better sense of the stuff that's staying behind.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:22.640
And John and I are gonna keep going through the stuff that goes, but there was a critical mass of stuff that was staying behind.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:47.359
And then we invited Penn in at the end of the day, and it was kind of like, I don't know, because this is really overwhelming and maybe not, but you came down, and my impression from being the hustler through the day and getting things out and moving things around was that when you saw Alicia's attention to certain collections and certain art supplies, and not just oh, art supplies dump.
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.799
Nope, here's the paintbrushes separate in this container.
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.839
Here's this type of supply, here's this type of bead.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:03.680
You know, it was like you saw your stuff in a different way, but I also felt like You saw the whole effort in a different way.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:10.000
You seem to open yourself to what was happening when you saw the end result of one day of work.
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:13.119
Well, yeah, I've always wanted to open up and do this stuff.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.119
It's always in the back of my mind I want to sort it.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.519
It's just I don't have a lot of energy to do this stuff.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.000
And you you said we have all these boxes and shelving and stuff.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.519
Like we got 'em, we wanted to do it, and we started and we never finished it.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.359
Or did a little bit and then it just got forgotten and stuff.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:35.599
So then having Alicia, you know, put it all together and stuff, it's it's what I've always wanted it to look like.
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.240
So it just made me look very feel very happy.
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.240
Because yeah, it's hard to find stuff when they're not in the same area.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:50.880
And if it's all in the same area, it's like, oh, I can look through this and see what I need and what I don't, especially because I'm it's sad to say I'm a chronic shopper.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:54.720
It's hard not to in this uh consumerism type of society we live in.
00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:01.839
But uh trying to I'm trying to get not do it as much because you know the dopamine hits of buying, and then you got to have all your stuff.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:07.279
So I have definitely like want to go through it and figure out what I want, what I don't want to sell and everything.
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.160
But yeah, I just you were you're right.
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.440
It made me very happy to see them all uh sorted very well.
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:21.119
I it just makes me so happy to know, and Alicia is the best at meticulous, you know.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:40.880
I mean, I've walked away from her and almost forgotten she was doing something, and then I come back and I'm like, whoa, that looks so good, or that's alphabetized, or that you know, like every that's so beautiful, you know, and clients have gotten that that joy from kind of a few hours without bothering Alicia.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.240
And then you come around, you're like, that's what she was doing.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.200
I didn't even I forgot she was here, you know.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.279
So it that's where the fun of a team is.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:57.279
Um and and and it was it was nice because I do see like think about that.
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:03.759
So we took, if it was six hour days, largely three people, that's 18 hour days.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:05.279
I call it human hours.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.599
So 18 hours a day of pretty much we are on.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:10.720
Boom, boom, boom.
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.759
John, you and I would talk afterward and kind of decompress.
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:19.440
Um, you know, and me and my car, you in the driveway, just kind of like, okay, we got a lot done.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:20.480
That feels good.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:21.599
Here's where we're at.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:25.680
This is this is good, you know, this is the plan moving forward.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:32.960
But when we were on the clock and really getting that work done, it was like boom, boom, boom.
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:42.559
So 18 hours in a day, times that by three days over three weeks, that's 54 hours, human hours.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:48.400
Like, even with the best systems, with every bin, there's not enough time in a weekend.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.440
You'd have to take a week off work, and people just don't have the skills.
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.920
There's family dynamic, you can get annoyed and go upstairs and do something else.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.880
You know, it's like this dedicated energy by having by hiring the support to do it.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:05.680
But then along the way, Penn, you really became part of the basement process.
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.960
I think, John, by the last time you weren't around as much.
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.079
Absolutely.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:27.440
And that felt great, you know, from my point of view, just the ownership and you know, it it it was yeah, it was it was a it was a transition and and it and it felt good because it was it enabled Penn to be part of the process of transforming the space, and that felt really, really good.
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:34.319
And by the end of this basement space, we'll close out the basement sway space now and and go upstairs.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.920
But at the end of the basement space, it was clear enough.
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:59.759
And if, you know, we show before pictures, it was a decade of a dumping ground of five people upstairs who kind of rode off the basement, moved to different places, had different, you know, had different clothing in very, you know, past served past life's um clothing, past weights, past body type.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:09.519
You know, there was some that was like, oh, I think that was like two sizes ago, you know, and that's size and clothing can make it easy to just say, yeah, that that goes, that stays.
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:18.160
Um But it was it was really exciting to see that space kind of clear.
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.279
And then we knew, okay, this had been a cement floor.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:27.759
There was carpeting, it had been ripped up, and there was the plan to put vinyl flooring down, and it was like, okay, we'll get there, we'll get there.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:38.160
One moment that was very exciting for me was it was the last Tuesday, and I called some guys who have done some great work for me, and I said, Hey, can you be out here and give a bit on this floor?
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.640
He's like, I can't come today, but I'll be there tomorrow.
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:51.119
And by that Saturday, you guys had floor laid, and it felt I the pictures of that, I felt so excited because you know it was just a phone call for me.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:59.519
But knowing that, you know, you really got that that apartment, you know, you really got that basement, like a finished element.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.839
There's still more to do, as we've said, but that felt good.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:12.640
What did that feel like to be like okay, this was a lot of effort, but we're we're seeing, you know, you we can move down here.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.519
I can invite Saf into my life down here.
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:16.960
Yeah.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:30.319
Um Yeah, I just with and the Saf has so many much less items than me, and they're so much better at sorting stuff that it I knew it would trigger them and make them not feel as good.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:32.319
So I really wanted it to make it perfect for them.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:39.200
And even though there's still more work to do, they are very optimistic and wanting to help because they like to sort and do stuff like that.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:44.559
It's just they're not used to the the scale of how much scale of it.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:45.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:46.079 --> 00:28:01.519
And for me, it's waterproof, high-quality vinyl flooring, which just makes everything feel more secure, you know, and especially as the heavens opened up this morning with lots of rain, is that is a downstairs living area and things aren't going to get ruined.
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.640
I mean, the reason there was no carpet was that there was a we did get water and we ripped it up.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:14.640
And I, you know, we have the the good vinyl flooring with the vapor barrier, and it just it has transformed it into a living space.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:21.839
But until the things on top of that floor were dealt with, I could not invite someone to come refloor it.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.119
I I don't know what I would have done.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:26.960
I would have put it all on the garage or in the driveway.
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:27.599
I don't know.
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:30.000
And so just enabling that was magical.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:37.839
And it's it's the downstairs flooring is what I've always wanted it to be since I moved into the house over 20 years ago.
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.599
And and I I and you guys picked a great color.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.839
It all just looks so nice and fresh down there, and we do have a little bit more to do.
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:56.319
But Saf comes in, and Saf, I got to meet Saf this week while we worked in your bedroom, and what a joy of a person.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:02.720
Like, and John texted me later, like, you see why this is such a good bonus kid to have.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:11.839
I was like, I totally get it, because they are just like positivity personified, just so encouraging throughout, so helpful.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:20.000
Like Saf was kind of our Alicia with, you know, we could, we could give a box, give a thing, you know, can you do this?
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:21.039
Can you take the trash out?
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.440
And you and I stayed in the same space for the most part um while Saf was our runner.
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:37.599
But next time we're coming back, and Saf and Alicia are gonna work together to really do more of that meticulous, which I think, you know, staff needed a break from the from the excess stuff and the decluttering.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:38.799
It's overwhelming.
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:48.960
But I think that staff will really enjoy and not need breaks doing the meticulous because that seems to be what they're motivated by and really looking forward to having.
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:52.000
Yeah, like I'm chronic fatigue, so I can't do as much stuff.
00:29:52.079 --> 00:30:01.039
But Saf uh they're they do get tired than a normal person, but they're very good at being like a direct, like I'm gonna do it this time and I'm gonna do my full energy into this.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:04.799
And then once we're done, we're just gonna lay down on the bed for an hour and and figure it out later.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:05.519
Yeah.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:16.240
No, and I think that that um, you know, before we go up to your room, and we can we can go up to your room in our in our last segment um and and unpack what's going on in in there.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:26.559
But I think the the thing to speak to, and I think that if anybody is sitting there thinking, okay, taking on an organizer, do I have to be super handheld, do I have to be super involved?
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.279
I always say like it's not my stuff.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:31.920
I can't make a judgment call on your stuff.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:38.400
And I and I don't, you know, once I got the lay of the land, I was able to, we were able to know, okay, this this goes, this states.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:44.480
And it was um, we had the run of show, but there we were, we've never been alone in the house, you know.
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:53.920
And um, but to me, you know, dad John really was like, Okay, you've got this, I'm covering the cost, but I'm going to work.
00:30:54.079 --> 00:31:01.039
Like you gave that trust where you're like, I'm I'm investing in this, but I'm not micromanaging, but I'm fully behind the effort.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.000
And you even this past time brought us sandwiches.
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:06.319
So, but you didn't even come in to announce it.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.519
You just dropped them off.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.319
Then there's me who comes in, I'm the organizer, like, I'm gonna keep this this ship going.
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.599
And then Penn, you know, it's really upstairs, especially your decision to make on things.
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:20.640
But staff was this supporter, this encourager.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:27.440
And then also in the house is the family members or the family members who are giving us space to do this as well.
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:33.359
So um, you know, we just got a less than a minute on this segment as we're live.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:56.079
But I'll just close it out by saying that I think knowing that you can't do it alone and being and acknowledging that and not feeling bad about that, because in this little breakdown that we're sharing about today, it is an ongoing process, multi-days, leaving things at a good point to say, okay, we can walk away from this for the moment, but we're coming back.
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.880
And also knowing everybody's got their own role to play.
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:04.079
And that takes a lot of burden off of you thinking this is all mine to make sense of.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:09.359
If you're like, oh no, there's gonna be like four or five of us tackling this in some various ways.
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:15.200
So, anyway, as we leave things to come back to the next day of work, we leave things to come back to the next segment.
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:20.720
So we'll be right back with sorting through life on AM 950, the progressive voice of Minnesota.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:29.119
Welcome back to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watersden on AM 950.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.200
And I am here in the studio.
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.400
We are or we're supposed to be recording live from Pride.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:39.920
Unfortunately, the rain made the booth hard to be able to record from.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.319
So we are back in the studio, our happy place here, and I am very happy to be in the company of two special clients, special people.
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.880
We've got Dad John, son Penn, and we are talking.
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:59.759
This is an episode of our behind closed drawers series where we really kind of invite people into the organizing process.
00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:05.759
So, right before we left, I kind of rattled off how some of the roles that we played within this scenario.
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:08.799
So, John, you're the dad.
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:16.960
You give me the call, you know this needs to be dealt with, you know you don't have the capacity, you are like, I gotta figure this out.
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.000
Talk to me about the roles from your point of view.
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:28.240
And also we're gonna shift into the bedroom that that Penn came from, which we were in this week working through.
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:36.880
So, like shifting roles and shifting roles in the process and just kind of give me some give me some good stuff on this.
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:47.279
Yeah, so you know, part of this whole experience is you know learning about myself and transforming, you know, how I am and how I how I attack problems.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:51.279
Is my MO is to put my head down and try and fix it myself.
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:55.200
I mean, that really is how I generally tackle things.
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:58.880
And it takes a lot for me to delegate and it takes a lot of trust.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:13.599
And me putting my head down and trying to deal with myself was how we had a basement full of clutter because it was okay, we're gonna move these things, we're gonna put the things down, and then I didn't have any more time, energy, or ability to deal with it from there.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.440
So it clearly wasn't working.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:31.519
So by listening to my children and by considering what works and what didn't work, you know, I used to buy opaque boxes, now I only buy the clear ones because I listened and just the ability to delegate, it was hard to get over that hump.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:52.079
But I want to say at this point in the process, the delegation feels great because over the you know, the four visits you've had, my involvement has changed from being very hands-on, very catalyzedist with the help of the organizers, to more involving Penn and then involving Penn and staff and the ownership of it.
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.400
And I get to let go of it and trust in the process and advise.
00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:59.440
And it's gonna come back around when we tackle some more of my stuff.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:00.159
I know it will.
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:00.800
It will.
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:03.760
But me putting my head down isn't working for that either.
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:14.079
So just I just want to convey it feels really good to be able to delegate because that is not my default way of doing it, and it has been been well worth it.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.559
And I'll also say my wife has been very on board.
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:23.119
She does not want to be directly involved, but is delighted with the way that it's happened and the transformations that has happened.
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:35.519
And so we have her support, but she it doesn't want to be in, you know, dealing with it just because her MO is to just not think about that and not put put her hands in it.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:36.960
So it's all working really well.
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:48.800
I'm glad you brought up your wife because I was going to if you didn't, because I know, you know, and I love the texts that I get about her feedback and that she's so happy and that she was so happy.
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:58.639
I think it was Mother's Day that the that the floor got done, or right before Mother's Day, you know, and it's like, oh my gosh, this got done, and how exciting.
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:08.719
But, you know, a lot of times tension lives among family members without being able to claim something, or, you know, really it's not an easy fix.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:20.079
Like I say, you know, I'm not a therapist, but I'm gonna fix that problem, you know, and that and often home organizers feel like we are mental health, a mental health provider versus, you know, first.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.800
Like, you know, we come in and we're gonna intervene on something where there's a lot of tension.
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:39.519
And that can kind of hinder relationships and make people feel annoyed with each other, but maybe they're not annoyed with, I'm not annoyed with you, I love you, but I'm so annoyed that you can't make sense of your stuff and it drives me crazy and I can't handle it.
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.840
But I love you, but I'm so annoyed with your stuff, and I it drives me crazy.
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:52.079
And I, you know, it's like this wheel, this loop, and it's like, but and I don't, I don't have the capacity, I don't have the hours, I don't know how to do this with you.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:59.360
And then you try to work on it with each other, and it's like the family dynamics come out, and it's very helpful to have an outsider to those dynamics.
00:36:59.519 --> 00:36:59.920
Yes.
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:09.920
Um but it also then depersonalizes and disconnects the stuff from the person when you have someone else in the mix to say, can we just deal with the stuff?
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:22.719
You know, like if there's something else going on, I'm sure it'll come up and happy to chat, you know, but um if we can focus on the stuff, it's amazing what starts to what you start to have space for.
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.920
You know, we'd say a lot of like create space for this.
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:35.360
So, Penn, we get upstairs, your dad sent me a text that said, Penn asks for help in his bedroom.
00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.840
Like, so can we put a day on?
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:44.239
And I was like, so excited because you asked, and it was set up.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:45.119
I said, you know what?
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:48.000
It's a small space, there's a lot going on, I think it'll just be me.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:53.039
Uh, let's do a shorter session, four hours, and and this is great.
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.039
So I came over this week.
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.880
We had session one, probably of three, but shorter.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.920
One person, well, Alicia will go to the basement with staff, you know.
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:08.159
I mean, um, but a def definitely a different situation than what was going on in the basement.
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:19.679
Tell us about your room, what we're doing in there, what you're excited about, where you know, where the patterns are that come from that have created the room to be the room.
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:30.159
Yeah, so um I have two younger siblings, and we used to all be in one room altogether, but then it was like my 13th birthday or something, they surprised me and got me my own room.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:33.039
And at that point I was very happy because I had my own space.
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:38.079
I was the oldest going through puberty and stuff, so it's it's much better just to be in your own space.
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:45.920
But then, you know, as time goes on, especially with how small my room is, and of course having younger siblings with us especially food.
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:50.159
It's hard to leave food out of side of my room because I know it will be eaten.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:55.199
Uh like I have a freezer cage right now still because I don't want my ice cream being eaten and stuff.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:15.440
But um So it just became a ton of piles of different foods and then some clothes and then all my knickknacks and stuff, because I like collecting things, and it just once it becomes piles, it's just so hard to deal with, because then you everything's falling over, you clean something, and then something else collapses, and it's just you need to do it all at once, and that is what we did.
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:22.639
We got all the piles out of the room that first time, and just seeing the floor again after that is just a big breath of fresh air.
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:28.000
Like the room's so small, I have to have a bunk bed just to have enough space for a computer and my shelves.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.239
Like, yeah, we were calculating what do we think?
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:33.360
Like nine by eight, nine by ten max.
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:40.320
Yeah, you know, so we're we're in less than a thousand square feet, but probably closer to six, seven hundred, you know.
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.840
So it is just a small space in itself.
00:39:44.000 --> 00:40:13.920
I think that that point about shared family space and you know, this gets into like boundaries and and how we set up systems in the communal spaces of a home so that it can be, hey, I'll keep my food out here if I can trust it's mine, you know, and so because otherwise, and this resonates especially with people going off to college, maybe they're having a new roommate for the first time that isn't a family member, um, that they don't know how to communicate with this on, you know.
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:18.960
I'm sure that family can still yell at each other, you know, that was my ice cream.
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.000
Um we've all had those moments.
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:42.639
Um, but so I think especially when we get back into family spaces, we'll be taking into account what we've uncovered in your space of like, hey, it got problematic with food in this room because of who it belongs to and wanting to make sure that if I buy it, I get to keep it and it stays mine.
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:55.599
So then when we go into those family spaces again, where we can say, okay, how can we make sure that this space actually facilitates a better experience for everybody so that the room isn't where the food goes.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:03.840
Yeah, and like everyone is we've grown up a lot too, and it's just the habits of just stayed, just because of that's that's how it worked for the like the last 10 years, I guess.
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:12.320
Cause I don't know, but then like my sister has moved out, um, so sh she was the one who ate a lot of food going through puberty, and like that's fine.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:18.079
Uh we I was hungry at that point too, but it was like there's chips here, it's gone.
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:20.320
There's uh something nice, it's gone.
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:26.800
But it's yeah, it's finding the new routines with the new house that are set up because she's not there anymore.
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.880
But now we have another guest, we have Saf.
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:31.679
So it's figuring out how we balance this all again.
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.079
Well, and also Saf is new to this.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:39.599
So, and Saf is, as we have mentioned, a very loving, a very patient human.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:57.440
Um, but you can tell that they're a little like, I don't like this, you know, I want this to be tidier, I want the order, I look forward to the labels on bins, you know, and and so that helps with a motivation to get it to keep getting it together.
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:13.440
But then there's also okay, we gotta be sensitive to to what this is imposing on their mental health if this, you know, and they're they're so kind too, and so doesn't want to say something that might be hurtful, probably, you know.
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:22.960
I mean, they haven't said this to me, but I'm just saying imagining you don't want to enter into a new environment and be like, oh my goodness, I'm a little bit losing my mind here.
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:24.639
You know, when is it gonna come together?
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:35.280
But you know, they're just trusting the process and so in the process and so encouraging throughout, which is just so many partners I see are the opposite.
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:49.119
And I have to be like, we're nice to each other while I'm here, because the part of the brain that you need to make the decisions and to be excited about this shuts down when we get yelled at, when we get shamed, when someone says, I can't believe you've let it get this way.
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:50.800
Gosh, this is just ridiculous.
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.280
This is so gross, this is this is obnoxious.
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:56.079
You know, I hear that in many homes.
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:58.480
And it's like, so can we just pause on that?
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:03.280
Because you're actually you're not helping this, you know, you're actually making this harder.
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:22.239
So you've been very open, and you know, we've talked earlier about those dopamine hits, and I just want to touch on um, because you're so uh open and and in this process, like the size of your room and the amount of stuff could look like the H-word.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:25.599
So for those that don't know, reporting.
00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:35.599
I mean, it is that that tendency to keep and to keep and to you know, keep accumulating, not remove, and and there's an attachment to this stuff.
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:41.519
I uh there's a there's on the Institute for Challenging Disorganization, there's a a scale.
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:50.880
So, you know, not everybody is you can't just label people as as this is a very anti-label, you know, you don't label people, including our tendencies of stuff.
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:56.239
But you've been able to see your neurospice within your current your old room.
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:56.639
Yeah.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:44:04.480
It's like I I am ashamed of how it got to, and I think for a lot of hoarding situations, they don't want to admit that or they don't ask for help.
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:09.679
Um, and it's like it's just it's compounded over the years to the point where I just I can't do it all myself.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:15.440
We've tried to do it a few times, but then just because of just how small it is, it just keeps kind of compounding into that.
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:29.119
But getting moving all my small stuff down to the basement where there's so many more square feet now, and we have shelves and everything, it's just so much easier to figure out in there than just having everything in a pile.
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:41.119
Talk to me a little bit about that shame, because we did talk about the hoarders episodes we've seen and how it you know it's for entertainment, and a lot of that is gripped by getting their shame on camera.
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:44.960
You know, aren't you so shamed about you know how this has got?
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:46.719
And you just said you're ashamed of it.
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:50.400
But we've had a very delightful experience doing this.
00:44:50.719 --> 00:45:09.519
So talk about how you can hold space for that shame that you feel for how it got and the ability to, you know, to have one foot in, yep, I know it's there, we gotta get through it, but one foot in the new space of like, but we are, and I like this space better, and this is gonna work for us.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:16.880
Yeah, it's the it's the yeah, it's that the So sorry, the question again.
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:23.920
Like about that shame aspect, because I see you you identified with it, and I would never want to put it on you.
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:28.079
But I feel like you're so much more positive and looking at the forward thinking.
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:32.400
So, how are you getting yourself from the shame into I can do this?
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:38.639
The shame part of it is where I use that as a motivation now because we I've seen the change.
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:41.760
I have seen that it can be done and it can be done well.
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:47.519
So being able to say, okay, if I just push through this and we get through this, I will feel a lot better afterwards.
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:54.800
And especially for Staff, I want to make it for them because they've lived in such minimal housing in comparison to me, and I've lived this my whole life.
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.480
It's like I want to make you comfortable, I want to make this happy, I want this to work.
00:45:58.800 --> 00:45:59.199
Yeah.
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:01.119
John, close it out for us here.
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.679
I'll just say, you know, the you know, what's in it for me?
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:11.199
You know, overriding what's in it for me is that the space works for the whole family, and the whole family is Penn and Saf.
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:20.079
Um, my other son, Sean, who I haven't even mentioned, um, and and my wife who make the whole space uh um work really well.
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:21.519
And Sean is awesome, by the way.
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:32.239
Um and uh so that's that's what's in it for me, but also just some very tangible things of there's a front room and there's a dining room table.
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:33.840
I'm getting those back.
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:38.639
So the my front room from some of the cleaning now has some of my music stuff.
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:44.159
Uh I have a table that we could sit down and play a board game or eat a meal at.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.199
There's a I focused on what's in what's the goal.
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:51.679
When we get that when we get that table done, we'll sit and plan out another episode.
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:56.559
And at the end of all of this, we'll come back and talk about the whole thing.
00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:59.280
But thank you guys so much for being here.
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.519
Uh thank everybody for being at Pride.
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.519
There's still time to get in your car and go out and enjoy the parade and enjoy the festival.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:11.039
But for now, thank you for being here, sorting through life with Colleen Watterson on AM 950.
00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:13.679
Welcome to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Waterson on AM950, the progressive voice of Minnesota.
00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:20.719
And I am very happy to be here with you today, but a little disappointed thanks to the rain.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:32.960
We were supposed to be downtown at Loring Park, at Pride, where Twin Cities AM 950 is a big supporter of Pride and has a big booth there.
00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:40.479
And we were going to be broadcasting live, but there was a big thunderstorm for those who are in the Twin Cities or not in the Twin Cities.
00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:45.520
We got rained out at our booth and pivoted like all pros do.
00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:53.840
Thank you to my two guests, my two clients here today, who were just lovely and saying, No problem, we'll meet you at the studio instead.
00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:58.719
So today I have a father-son duo.
00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.880
John and Penn, who have been clients of mine, continued clients of mine.
00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:04.159
So welcome to the show.
00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:05.439
Thanks, Colleen.
00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:06.159
Thank you.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:16.640
And this is Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watterston, but it is stems from my organizing business, Space by Space Organizing, which is a Twin Cities-based home organizing business.
00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:37.760
And I am very proud to be on this uh this network that is the Progressive Voice of Minnesota, and among other very open-minded, forward-thinking, help move the lever on inclusivity and different initiatives that help us all feel, you know, proud to be Minnesotans.
00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:42.560
But specifically, pride is for the community that is.
00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:51.760
I am I am an ally of the pride, the LGBTQ community and a supporter of love uh in Minneapolis and beyond.
00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:55.200
And today we're celebrating that, especially in Minneapolis.
00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:59.599
And Penn, you identify as a member of the community.
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:01.760
So what does pride mean for you?
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:08.400
And while we weren't able to do this together, I got a beautiful picture of you all yesterday at Pride for six hours.
00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:20.080
So maybe since we can't be there and having the energy of the festival in our show, we can bring some energy of yesterday's festival to our show.
00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:25.039
So tell me about what Pride means to you and what people can expect when they do go.
00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:27.280
Alright, so I'm Penn.
00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.159
I am in a non-binary trans mask and use he him.
00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:39.599
Um I I've been to Pride before down at Loring Park, and we went on a sun on the Saturday that wasn't as busy, so it was more easier to do it.
00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:43.120
And my favorite part is just seeing all the different types of community members.
00:02:43.680 --> 00:03:03.280
It's I live in uh more of the suburbs, so I don't see as many people usually just in the bougie homes, but seeing so many queer um community members and seeing them so happy, especially older ones, that makes me so happy to see older queer members being able to express themselves when they couldn't before.
00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:08.479
Um so like there's awesome drag shows, there's awesome live music.
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:20.400
Um one of my favorite things is going to uh booths of people who make their like own homemade stuff and always trying to support the queer community there because we all gotta help out in giving some money to them.
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:28.800
Um but yeah, it's just it's so awesome seeing everyone there, seeing everyone happy and just celebrating existing.
00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:38.560
Yeah, existing and and thriving and really finding community among other people.
00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:41.039
It's so important to feel that sense of belonging.
00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:58.800
And you know, right where you live to be able to have your your own um you know, festival and parade and just be able to support each other and be supported by people who are aren't our allies and friends and and um all across the board.
00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:03.199
But John, you are one of the most supportive parents I've ever come across.
00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:05.840
And you you went yesterday.
00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:07.520
Was it that's not your first time?
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:08.719
It was not my first time.
00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:14.319
So I've been with um a couple of the members of my family, I think a few times before.
00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:34.639
Um and so I I also identify as an ally, and I am a parent of a rainbow family uh and supportive of all of them, and it's you know, it's been a constant learning and adjusting and supporting, you know, over my life for my my three wonderful children.
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And uh and Penn is my eldest.
00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:39.600
I've been to Pride most often with Penn.
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Um my middle child also went to Pride um last year, I think it was, uh, with us.
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And we just had this glorious gathering of what were like ten of us there, I think, uh, and all identifying in different ways.
00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:59.360
And it really was, you know, a celebration.
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And uh I just love the range of people being who they are and celebrating who they are.
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:15.519
And you know, and I'm a I'm I I work with color as my job and just all the glorious literal and metaphorical rainbows of pride.
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:16.959
It just it just brings me joy.
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Just walking around makes me happy at pride.
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And uh the vibe the vibe was there in full force yesterday.
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So yeah, everybody talks about the energy, you know, just total amazing energy, whether it is for somebody who identifies as as any members of the community and craves that feeling of being among others who are accepting and open and being who they are.
00:05:45.120 --> 00:06:01.519
But then I think also people who are in more of the cis world or the, you know, they've not had a feeling of exclusion for who they are, but love being able to go and be part of this celebration of of everybody getting to be who they are.
00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:06.560
And and we want it to be, you know, every day that you can show up that way.
00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:11.040
But it is good to have these um these things to look forward to.
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:19.120
And this, you know, AM 950 put a lot of effort into their booth and into the planning to be able to do live shows there and really be in the community.
00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:31.839
So I think it's important that we give some love, even though we aren't we aren't among among the other tents and the other um the the pride goers of the weekend.
00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.160
So we'll have to do it another time.
00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:38.639
But here we are in our regular studio, and we are recording a show.
00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:51.839
So Space by Space Organizing is all about helping people make sense of stuff, help them get out of their own way in life, you know, tackle every project as it is, you know, differently, unique to each client.
00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:57.759
And John, you reached out to me about maybe two months ago now.
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And tell me what made you reach out to me.
00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:01.120
Yeah.
00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.279
And how that we'll we'll go down from there.
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:12.000
So we had an impending change coming to our family in that uh Penn's significant other, who they've been with for over 10 years now.
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.519
Um there's non-binary and named Staff and they use the of them.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:16.160
There you go.
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:21.839
Saf was this awesome significant other living in Seattle, was going to come live with us.
00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:37.600
And the plan was uh to the plan was to move the living space for Penn downstairs um where they could be with Staff and have more space than their very small bedroom upstairs.
00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:52.800
And the challenge for me was the downstairs had moved into an area where that was that was the dumping ground of various cleanouts and you know organizing things upstairs, and it wasn't a great living space.
00:07:53.120 --> 00:08:00.160
And we really didn't want to move a new person in to an immediate downer space full of clutter.
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:11.759
And so my goal was I needed to help transform this downstairs, and I just didn't have the ability to do it myself or the time, the spoons, the energy to be able to do that.
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:25.920
So I asked my network who could help, um, and in particular who could be sensitive to um, you know, queer, autistic, neurofascinating, interesting people.
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.959
And my network said, you need to call Colleen.
00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:31.199
Uh I think she'd be great for this.
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.759
And uh I set up an appointment and I did a follow-up call.
00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:41.200
And Colleen looked at my address and said, actually, could I be there in 20 minutes and see what we're dealing with?
00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:43.279
And she got in her car and came down.
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And from there, we got together a plan.
00:08:46.480 --> 00:09:06.399
And we've had, I think, four sessions now of transformation, and we're not done yet, but it enabled the first three sessions really enabled having a welcoming space for staff to come live with us and for Penn to move downstairs and start building a home in the lower part of our of our house.
00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.679
I remember this first call because you came in through the website, through our form.
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.240
You went in and you you did it correctly.
00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.080
You know, you filled out the form.
00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:33.519
Um, I think I scheduled a time to chat with you, and I called you as planned, and I'm like trying to wrap my head around what you've got going on because you're explaining the situation, you know, and bonus kit is coming, and we want it to be inviting, the basement's not working.
00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.840
I'm like, I think I just need to wrap my head around this in person.
00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.200
And so I plugged your address in my phone.
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I had the time right then.
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I'm like, I'll be right there.
00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:45.279
Is that okay?
00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:46.879
You were as open.
00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:48.879
I mean, most people be like, no, I want to clean up.
00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:51.840
But the fun thing about a consult with me is that you don't clean up.
00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:56.960
Like, I have to see it as it is, because if you clean up, I don't know what I'm walking into.
00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.399
It would have been difficult to clean up this situation too quick.
00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.440
But you were so open to, yeah, sure.
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:05.679
You know, and that's been you this whole time, John.
00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:15.919
It's just this like, I want to do right by my kids, I want to do right by my wife, I want to do right by my family, I want to, I want this space to work for all of us.
00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:28.000
You know, you took on that house at a very different point of life, and now you've put a lot of pressure on it, and you want to stay in it together, but this isn't working.
00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:34.159
And so I come to this consult and it was just, I got it was overwhelming.
00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:48.960
There was a lot, and and I call it a jumping ground, but I what I like to say sometimes with people is like you and everyone else, because we often are in our own worlds and we're like, I'm the only one who has how how have I let it get this way?
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.440
How have I let it get this way?
00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:54.159
How am I not able to do this myself?
00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:59.039
You know, we all put it on ourselves, but it's like you and everyone else.
00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:03.120
Like you are not the only person who has a dumping ground in their house.
00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:09.039
And sometimes they come in the form of drawers or closets or rooms or entire basements.
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:28.240
Like I moved into my parents' home later in life and moved into the basement, and it took a lot of effort to get the basement because a lot of times, too, if kids come and go from the house, I was seeing as an adult in my 30s the things that I had left behind for my parents in my 20s.
00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:35.360
You know, every move I made, if I didn't take something with me, it didn't get donated or redistributed at the time.
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.600
It got dumped in my parents' basement.
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:55.279
So, and as a lot of people have toys and things that, you know, we age out of as we're raising kids, um, those things don't just, unless you're really diligent about getting things out of the house, which some people are, um it just it just doesn't go anywhere.
00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:56.559
And then it compiles.
00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:05.120
So that's what I saw as this basement was like a space where everybody had just for written off as a space in the house.
00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.399
So then you're putting pressure on just the top house for everybody.
00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:14.159
And then the basement's no longer of use, but whose project is it to tackle?
00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:46.159
So, Penn, from your point of view, from that first part of this, and so three days we were in the basement, Alicia, myself, and you for the most part, John, and then Pen, you kind of came in more and more along the way, and now we're in your space and it's you, but focusing on that basement, like what was your feeling about it, about your feeling about welcoming staff to it as it was before we came along, the process of clearing it, having your dad ask for it, like what all went into it from your point of view?
00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:54.399
Um, well, because my room is so tiny, we have tried to clean this out before, and that is just made it have bins of stuff just sitting in the basement.
00:12:54.559 --> 00:13:02.799
And of course, I put bins of stuff, and that includes our supplies and stuff, but then I want to do art, so then I would buy more stuff, and it would just be a compounding loop of that things.
00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:07.120
Um so it's it was super hard to try and get through it all myself.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:13.440
Whenever you have your own stuff, it's like it's such a big hurdle to go through because it's just so many mental blocks for it.
00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:26.399
Um But yeah, I waited until you guys had a much more because it was a lot of my stuff, but then just a lot of clothes and stuff, because it just we just hard to keep up with it all.
00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:32.080
Um, and the only time you really go downstairs is to see the laundry room, so it's kind of that's kind of how it started to work.
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:38.159
Um but then once you got more stuff clear and I could help sort stuff as well, and you could like say yes or no and stuff.
00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:39.519
And Alicia was super helpful.
00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:40.480
I loved her a lot.
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:49.039
How she could take all my things and put them in their own little categories because I really like that type of stuff, having it all organized and in sections where I can go through them.
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.159
And as you said, you can shop for your own things, right?
00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:55.519
You can see all the stuff that I got, and I'm like, oh, I don't need to buy more of that.
00:13:55.600 --> 00:14:09.120
I don't need to buy more of this for a while, and I have all this stuff I can use now, which is it's just having it all allocated in one area makes it so much easier to handle by yours not by yourself because you guys are helping you, but handle as being present there.
00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:29.679
I am beaming right now because so if anyone's watching on my face is not to the camera that we have in this little studio, but um it means so much to me to hear you share that, but also say some of the things I say, like shop your own closet, shop your own stuff.
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:34.960
So many times you and everybody else, you know, oh, I want to paint.
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.720
It's a lot easier to go and buy$10,$20 worth of new paints.
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:46.159
You know, the thing that we want to buy is less money than the work to go find the paints to go sort through the thing.
00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:50.639
And often when we go to sort for the thing or find the thing, we get distracted.
00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.080
Um, Neurospice likes to do that to us too.
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.519
So it's like then it's frustrating when you get derailed on your way.
00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:02.000
I was sharing that I have a step stool in every room that I might need a step stool in.
00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:04.000
And they're little ones and big ones, you know.
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:10.080
Some are just those little like$8.99 from Home Goods, one step because that's all I need for where I am.
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:20.399
But if I don't have a step stool there and I need to go grab it five rooms away, or you know, sometimes five steps away, I'll see something else along the way and want to work on that.
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:24.080
When it is our own house, we can get distracted by things.
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.279
So I love that you picked up on that and you did.
00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:34.240
You became um, you know, kind of were doing this for you, but you were further away from the effort.
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:44.639
And it was like this visual that allowed us to see your buy-in to what we were doing that was really rewarding for Alicia and myself, and I think for you too.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:46.080
Yeah, no, exactly.
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:56.639
I mean, part of the block for me was I didn't have the right knowledge to know what to do with all of Penn's things.
00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:02.080
Of there was the fear of I was going to throw things away or give things away, and I was gonna pick the wrong thing.
00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.440
And then Penn was gonna say, that was really important to me, and you got rid of it.
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:11.759
So I think day one was day one was huge because we got through a lot of clothes and things.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.559
We're gonna take a quick break live here.
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:18.720
We'll be right back and we'll keep going on all the things we got through.
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.399
Welcome back to Starting Through Life with Colleen Watterston.
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.960
This is our first time ever recording the show live.
00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:42.080
So if anybody's like, oh, that sounds a little uh glitchy, it's not we're perfect, but uh we are getting used to this whole end on this exact spot, start on this exact spot.
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:47.759
Um, and I am with two lovely clients, father, son, duo.
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:49.600
We've got John and Penn.
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:58.080
And not in the studio is a very important person, Staff, who is Penn's partner and really inspired this whole effort.
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:08.559
So if you were here for the last segment, we talked about how John reached out and said, I got a kid moving down to the basement, the basement's been at the dumping ground, I need help, I don't know where to start.
00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.119
I'm ready, I'm I'm here for this.
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:13.119
And I'm like, who is this energetic father?
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.079
I drove to his house, I see the house, I'm like, we got this.
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.559
It's gonna take a lot, but we got this.
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:29.440
So, John, give just kind of that like if you were telling someone for the first time what we did in the basement in the the course of a few weeks.
00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:29.839
Yeah.
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.240
And really your role within it, too.
00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:41.440
Yeah, and my role changed over the the the three first visits, um, and in a good way, in that uh I was there the entire time.
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:43.359
Uh my back felt it the next day.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.119
Uh we put you in a chair the second day.
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:46.079
Yeah, we did we did.
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.079
We we learned, we learned and adapted.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:18:05.599
But the the things that happened to him on the first day was we went through a lot of clothes and we kind of did a triaging of the space and made it so it wasn't as intimidating, actually made a corridor and you know, to be able to get there and started clearing clearing some things.
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:19.200
And it just went from I have no idea how to start this and how to, you know, and and how to tackle it, and I'm scared to you know throw away something that shouldn't be, to okay, this is workable.
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:31.440
And gradually over the next two, involving Penn more in the process, and just you know, each day, at the end of the day, we all felt good about where we were at the stopping point.
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:32.480
And I think that was important.
00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.200
There was just encouragement to do the next week, and then encouragement to do the next week.
00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:42.880
And we're not done yet, but I'm encouraged and I'm confident that the end result is going to be great.
00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:55.200
Whenever that is, however that is, we have a working process and we'll keep doing that until the entire bottom floor is transformed, and then we move for the for the rest of the house.
00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:02.799
And we have moved upstairs, but we also, in moving upstairs, started downstairs by saying, okay, where's this at now?
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:08.880
You know, it's been a month or at least a handful, a few weeks since I was there before I lose track of time.
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:12.880
But we did do three weeks in a row, six-hour days.
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:20.079
Three of us, whether it was John in the lead or Pence, sometimes there was four, sometimes there was two, with just Alicia and myself.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:27.839
Um, but so it took a lot of time, and it still takes more time, but it was going through so many items.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.240
There was quite a bit of trash, quite a bit of donate.
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.480
We did do a little bit of reselling.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.000
Um, but it was a lot of tackling.
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:48.240
And I think from my perspective of you, John, is I you are just such a epitome of loving parent and of just this want to make space for my kids to be who they are.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:20:11.039
Um, want to support them in in having that space, you know, within the limited space within the square footage of a house, but but then also being like willing to know this is not my my strong suit, you know, like I think I need support and reaching out for the support and then, you know, graciously accepting it and and investing in it.
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.759
But I had also seen you are very pragmatic.
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:22.960
You had bought shelves, you know, you had these very heavy-duty shelves in the garage that had casters on them.
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:29.200
You had many uh containers, many good plastic bins with the clasps.
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:33.680
We got rid of a lot of the containers that had been broken or were opaque and you couldn't see in them.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:41.440
A lot of times for people, if you can't see what's inside and it's deep, especially, you're never gonna re-access that stuff.
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.200
You know, it's it's the clear bins are really great for a lot of people.
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:55.440
For some people who don't want to see what they have and just put it away and put a label on it, the the non-clear bins, but you had bought so many things that could be helpful.
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:58.640
So I'm like, we don't need to bring new things, we just need to use these.
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:04.319
And I remember that first day, knowing we need to get one of these shelves rolled in.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.720
Like we need to start bringing some order.
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:15.039
So it switched at one point was okay, Alicia, you're gonna start making better sense of the stuff that's staying behind.
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:22.640
And John and I are gonna keep going through the stuff that goes, but there was a critical mass of stuff that was staying behind.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:47.359
And then we invited Penn in at the end of the day, and it was kind of like, I don't know, because this is really overwhelming and maybe not, but you came down, and my impression from being the hustler through the day and getting things out and moving things around was that when you saw Alicia's attention to certain collections and certain art supplies, and not just oh, art supplies dump.
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.799
Nope, here's the paintbrushes separate in this container.
00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.839
Here's this type of supply, here's this type of bead.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:03.680
You know, it was like you saw your stuff in a different way, but I also felt like You saw the whole effort in a different way.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:10.000
You seem to open yourself to what was happening when you saw the end result of one day of work.
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:13.119
Well, yeah, I've always wanted to open up and do this stuff.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.119
It's always in the back of my mind I want to sort it.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.519
It's just I don't have a lot of energy to do this stuff.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.000
And you you said we have all these boxes and shelving and stuff.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.519
Like we got 'em, we wanted to do it, and we started and we never finished it.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.359
Or did a little bit and then it just got forgotten and stuff.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:35.599
So then having Alicia, you know, put it all together and stuff, it's it's what I've always wanted it to look like.
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.240
So it just made me look very feel very happy.
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.240
Because yeah, it's hard to find stuff when they're not in the same area.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:50.880
And if it's all in the same area, it's like, oh, I can look through this and see what I need and what I don't, especially because I'm it's sad to say I'm a chronic shopper.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:54.720
It's hard not to in this uh consumerism type of society we live in.
00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:01.839
But uh trying to I'm trying to get not do it as much because you know the dopamine hits of buying, and then you got to have all your stuff.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:07.279
So I have definitely like want to go through it and figure out what I want, what I don't want to sell and everything.
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.160
But yeah, I just you were you're right.
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.440
It made me very happy to see them all uh sorted very well.
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:21.119
I it just makes me so happy to know, and Alicia is the best at meticulous, you know.
00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:40.880
I mean, I've walked away from her and almost forgotten she was doing something, and then I come back and I'm like, whoa, that looks so good, or that's alphabetized, or that you know, like every that's so beautiful, you know, and clients have gotten that that joy from kind of a few hours without bothering Alicia.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.240
And then you come around, you're like, that's what she was doing.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:47.200
I didn't even I forgot she was here, you know.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.279
So it that's where the fun of a team is.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:57.279
Um and and and it was it was nice because I do see like think about that.
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:03.759
So we took, if it was six hour days, largely three people, that's 18 hour days.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:05.279
I call it human hours.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.599
So 18 hours a day of pretty much we are on.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:10.720
Boom, boom, boom.
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:13.759
John, you and I would talk afterward and kind of decompress.
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:19.440
Um, you know, and me and my car, you in the driveway, just kind of like, okay, we got a lot done.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:20.480
That feels good.
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:21.599
Here's where we're at.
00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:25.680
This is this is good, you know, this is the plan moving forward.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:32.960
But when we were on the clock and really getting that work done, it was like boom, boom, boom.
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:42.559
So 18 hours in a day, times that by three days over three weeks, that's 54 hours, human hours.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:48.400
Like, even with the best systems, with every bin, there's not enough time in a weekend.
00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:51.440
You'd have to take a week off work, and people just don't have the skills.
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.920
There's family dynamic, you can get annoyed and go upstairs and do something else.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.880
You know, it's like this dedicated energy by having by hiring the support to do it.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:05.680
But then along the way, Penn, you really became part of the basement process.
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.960
I think, John, by the last time you weren't around as much.
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.079
Absolutely.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:27.440
And that felt great, you know, from my point of view, just the ownership and you know, it it it was yeah, it was it was a it was a transition and and it and it felt good because it was it enabled Penn to be part of the process of transforming the space, and that felt really, really good.
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:34.319
And by the end of this basement space, we'll close out the basement sway space now and and go upstairs.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:37.920
But at the end of the basement space, it was clear enough.
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:59.759
And if, you know, we show before pictures, it was a decade of a dumping ground of five people upstairs who kind of rode off the basement, moved to different places, had different, you know, had different clothing in very, you know, past served past life's um clothing, past weights, past body type.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:09.519
You know, there was some that was like, oh, I think that was like two sizes ago, you know, and that's size and clothing can make it easy to just say, yeah, that that goes, that stays.
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:18.160
Um But it was it was really exciting to see that space kind of clear.
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.279
And then we knew, okay, this had been a cement floor.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:27.759
There was carpeting, it had been ripped up, and there was the plan to put vinyl flooring down, and it was like, okay, we'll get there, we'll get there.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:38.160
One moment that was very exciting for me was it was the last Tuesday, and I called some guys who have done some great work for me, and I said, Hey, can you be out here and give a bit on this floor?
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.640
He's like, I can't come today, but I'll be there tomorrow.
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:51.119
And by that Saturday, you guys had floor laid, and it felt I the pictures of that, I felt so excited because you know it was just a phone call for me.
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:59.519
But knowing that, you know, you really got that that apartment, you know, you really got that basement, like a finished element.
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.839
There's still more to do, as we've said, but that felt good.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:12.640
What did that feel like to be like okay, this was a lot of effort, but we're we're seeing, you know, you we can move down here.
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.519
I can invite Saf into my life down here.
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:16.960
Yeah.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:30.319
Um Yeah, I just with and the Saf has so many much less items than me, and they're so much better at sorting stuff that it I knew it would trigger them and make them not feel as good.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:32.319
So I really wanted it to make it perfect for them.
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:39.200
And even though there's still more work to do, they are very optimistic and wanting to help because they like to sort and do stuff like that.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:44.559
It's just they're not used to the the scale of how much scale of it.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:45.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:46.079 --> 00:28:01.519
And for me, it's waterproof, high-quality vinyl flooring, which just makes everything feel more secure, you know, and especially as the heavens opened up this morning with lots of rain, is that is a downstairs living area and things aren't going to get ruined.
00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:06.640
I mean, the reason there was no carpet was that there was a we did get water and we ripped it up.
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:14.640
And I, you know, we have the the good vinyl flooring with the vapor barrier, and it just it has transformed it into a living space.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:21.839
But until the things on top of that floor were dealt with, I could not invite someone to come refloor it.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.119
I I don't know what I would have done.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:26.960
I would have put it all on the garage or in the driveway.
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:27.599
I don't know.
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:30.000
And so just enabling that was magical.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:37.839
And it's it's the downstairs flooring is what I've always wanted it to be since I moved into the house over 20 years ago.
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.599
And and I I and you guys picked a great color.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.839
It all just looks so nice and fresh down there, and we do have a little bit more to do.
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:56.319
But Saf comes in, and Saf, I got to meet Saf this week while we worked in your bedroom, and what a joy of a person.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:02.720
Like, and John texted me later, like, you see why this is such a good bonus kid to have.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:11.839
I was like, I totally get it, because they are just like positivity personified, just so encouraging throughout, so helpful.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:20.000
Like Saf was kind of our Alicia with, you know, we could, we could give a box, give a thing, you know, can you do this?
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:21.039
Can you take the trash out?
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:25.440
And you and I stayed in the same space for the most part um while Saf was our runner.
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:37.599
But next time we're coming back, and Saf and Alicia are gonna work together to really do more of that meticulous, which I think, you know, staff needed a break from the from the excess stuff and the decluttering.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:38.799
It's overwhelming.
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:48.960
But I think that staff will really enjoy and not need breaks doing the meticulous because that seems to be what they're motivated by and really looking forward to having.
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:52.000
Yeah, like I'm chronic fatigue, so I can't do as much stuff.
00:29:52.079 --> 00:30:01.039
But Saf uh they're they do get tired than a normal person, but they're very good at being like a direct, like I'm gonna do it this time and I'm gonna do my full energy into this.
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:04.799
And then once we're done, we're just gonna lay down on the bed for an hour and and figure it out later.
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:05.519
Yeah.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:16.240
No, and I think that that um, you know, before we go up to your room, and we can we can go up to your room in our in our last segment um and and unpack what's going on in in there.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:26.559
But I think the the thing to speak to, and I think that if anybody is sitting there thinking, okay, taking on an organizer, do I have to be super handheld, do I have to be super involved?
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.279
I always say like it's not my stuff.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:31.920
I can't make a judgment call on your stuff.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:38.400
And I and I don't, you know, once I got the lay of the land, I was able to, we were able to know, okay, this this goes, this states.
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:44.480
And it was um, we had the run of show, but there we were, we've never been alone in the house, you know.
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:53.920
And um, but to me, you know, dad John really was like, Okay, you've got this, I'm covering the cost, but I'm going to work.
00:30:54.079 --> 00:31:01.039
Like you gave that trust where you're like, I'm I'm investing in this, but I'm not micromanaging, but I'm fully behind the effort.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.000
And you even this past time brought us sandwiches.
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:06.319
So, but you didn't even come in to announce it.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.519
You just dropped them off.
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.319
Then there's me who comes in, I'm the organizer, like, I'm gonna keep this this ship going.
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.599
And then Penn, you know, it's really upstairs, especially your decision to make on things.
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:20.640
But staff was this supporter, this encourager.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:27.440
And then also in the house is the family members or the family members who are giving us space to do this as well.
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:33.359
So um, you know, we just got a less than a minute on this segment as we're live.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:56.079
But I'll just close it out by saying that I think knowing that you can't do it alone and being and acknowledging that and not feeling bad about that, because in this little breakdown that we're sharing about today, it is an ongoing process, multi-days, leaving things at a good point to say, okay, we can walk away from this for the moment, but we're coming back.
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.880
And also knowing everybody's got their own role to play.
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:04.079
And that takes a lot of burden off of you thinking this is all mine to make sense of.
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:09.359
If you're like, oh no, there's gonna be like four or five of us tackling this in some various ways.
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:15.200
So, anyway, as we leave things to come back to the next day of work, we leave things to come back to the next segment.
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:20.720
So we'll be right back with sorting through life on AM 950, the progressive voice of Minnesota.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:29.119
Welcome back to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watersden on AM 950.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.200
And I am here in the studio.
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:34.400
We are or we're supposed to be recording live from Pride.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:39.920
Unfortunately, the rain made the booth hard to be able to record from.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:48.319
So we are back in the studio, our happy place here, and I am very happy to be in the company of two special clients, special people.
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:52.880
We've got Dad John, son Penn, and we are talking.
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:59.759
This is an episode of our behind closed drawers series where we really kind of invite people into the organizing process.
00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:05.759
So, right before we left, I kind of rattled off how some of the roles that we played within this scenario.
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:08.799
So, John, you're the dad.
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:16.960
You give me the call, you know this needs to be dealt with, you know you don't have the capacity, you are like, I gotta figure this out.
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.000
Talk to me about the roles from your point of view.
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:28.240
And also we're gonna shift into the bedroom that that Penn came from, which we were in this week working through.
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:36.880
So, like shifting roles and shifting roles in the process and just kind of give me some give me some good stuff on this.
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:47.279
Yeah, so you know, part of this whole experience is you know learning about myself and transforming, you know, how I am and how I how I attack problems.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:51.279
Is my MO is to put my head down and try and fix it myself.
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:55.200
I mean, that really is how I generally tackle things.
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:58.880
And it takes a lot for me to delegate and it takes a lot of trust.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:13.599
And me putting my head down and trying to deal with myself was how we had a basement full of clutter because it was okay, we're gonna move these things, we're gonna put the things down, and then I didn't have any more time, energy, or ability to deal with it from there.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.440
So it clearly wasn't working.
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:31.519
So by listening to my children and by considering what works and what didn't work, you know, I used to buy opaque boxes, now I only buy the clear ones because I listened and just the ability to delegate, it was hard to get over that hump.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:52.079
But I want to say at this point in the process, the delegation feels great because over the you know, the four visits you've had, my involvement has changed from being very hands-on, very catalyzedist with the help of the organizers, to more involving Penn and then involving Penn and staff and the ownership of it.
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.400
And I get to let go of it and trust in the process and advise.
00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:59.440
And it's gonna come back around when we tackle some more of my stuff.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:00.159
I know it will.
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:00.800
It will.
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:03.760
But me putting my head down isn't working for that either.
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:14.079
So just I just want to convey it feels really good to be able to delegate because that is not my default way of doing it, and it has been been well worth it.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.559
And I'll also say my wife has been very on board.
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:23.119
She does not want to be directly involved, but is delighted with the way that it's happened and the transformations that has happened.
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:35.519
And so we have her support, but she it doesn't want to be in, you know, dealing with it just because her MO is to just not think about that and not put put her hands in it.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:36.960
So it's all working really well.
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:48.800
I'm glad you brought up your wife because I was going to if you didn't, because I know, you know, and I love the texts that I get about her feedback and that she's so happy and that she was so happy.
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:58.639
I think it was Mother's Day that the that the floor got done, or right before Mother's Day, you know, and it's like, oh my gosh, this got done, and how exciting.
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:08.719
But, you know, a lot of times tension lives among family members without being able to claim something, or, you know, really it's not an easy fix.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:20.079
Like I say, you know, I'm not a therapist, but I'm gonna fix that problem, you know, and that and often home organizers feel like we are mental health, a mental health provider versus, you know, first.
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.800
Like, you know, we come in and we're gonna intervene on something where there's a lot of tension.
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:39.519
And that can kind of hinder relationships and make people feel annoyed with each other, but maybe they're not annoyed with, I'm not annoyed with you, I love you, but I'm so annoyed that you can't make sense of your stuff and it drives me crazy and I can't handle it.
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.840
But I love you, but I'm so annoyed with your stuff, and I it drives me crazy.
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:52.079
And I, you know, it's like this wheel, this loop, and it's like, but and I don't, I don't have the capacity, I don't have the hours, I don't know how to do this with you.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:59.360
And then you try to work on it with each other, and it's like the family dynamics come out, and it's very helpful to have an outsider to those dynamics.
00:36:59.519 --> 00:36:59.920
Yes.
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:09.920
Um but it also then depersonalizes and disconnects the stuff from the person when you have someone else in the mix to say, can we just deal with the stuff?
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:22.719
You know, like if there's something else going on, I'm sure it'll come up and happy to chat, you know, but um if we can focus on the stuff, it's amazing what starts to what you start to have space for.
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.920
You know, we'd say a lot of like create space for this.
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:35.360
So, Penn, we get upstairs, your dad sent me a text that said, Penn asks for help in his bedroom.
00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.840
Like, so can we put a day on?
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:44.239
And I was like, so excited because you asked, and it was set up.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:45.119
I said, you know what?
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:48.000
It's a small space, there's a lot going on, I think it'll just be me.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:53.039
Uh, let's do a shorter session, four hours, and and this is great.
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.039
So I came over this week.
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.880
We had session one, probably of three, but shorter.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.920
One person, well, Alicia will go to the basement with staff, you know.
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:08.159
I mean, um, but a def definitely a different situation than what was going on in the basement.
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:19.679
Tell us about your room, what we're doing in there, what you're excited about, where you know, where the patterns are that come from that have created the room to be the room.
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:30.159
Yeah, so um I have two younger siblings, and we used to all be in one room altogether, but then it was like my 13th birthday or something, they surprised me and got me my own room.
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:33.039
And at that point I was very happy because I had my own space.
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:38.079
I was the oldest going through puberty and stuff, so it's it's much better just to be in your own space.
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:45.920
But then, you know, as time goes on, especially with how small my room is, and of course having younger siblings with us especially food.
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:50.159
It's hard to leave food out of side of my room because I know it will be eaten.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:55.199
Uh like I have a freezer cage right now still because I don't want my ice cream being eaten and stuff.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:15.440
But um So it just became a ton of piles of different foods and then some clothes and then all my knickknacks and stuff, because I like collecting things, and it just once it becomes piles, it's just so hard to deal with, because then you everything's falling over, you clean something, and then something else collapses, and it's just you need to do it all at once, and that is what we did.
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:22.639
We got all the piles out of the room that first time, and just seeing the floor again after that is just a big breath of fresh air.
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:28.000
Like the room's so small, I have to have a bunk bed just to have enough space for a computer and my shelves.
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.239
Like, yeah, we were calculating what do we think?
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:33.360
Like nine by eight, nine by ten max.
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:40.320
Yeah, you know, so we're we're in less than a thousand square feet, but probably closer to six, seven hundred, you know.
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.840
So it is just a small space in itself.
00:39:44.000 --> 00:40:13.920
I think that that point about shared family space and you know, this gets into like boundaries and and how we set up systems in the communal spaces of a home so that it can be, hey, I'll keep my food out here if I can trust it's mine, you know, and so because otherwise, and this resonates especially with people going off to college, maybe they're having a new roommate for the first time that isn't a family member, um, that they don't know how to communicate with this on, you know.
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:18.960
I'm sure that family can still yell at each other, you know, that was my ice cream.
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:22.000
Um we've all had those moments.
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:42.639
Um, but so I think especially when we get back into family spaces, we'll be taking into account what we've uncovered in your space of like, hey, it got problematic with food in this room because of who it belongs to and wanting to make sure that if I buy it, I get to keep it and it stays mine.
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:55.599
So then when we go into those family spaces again, where we can say, okay, how can we make sure that this space actually facilitates a better experience for everybody so that the room isn't where the food goes.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:03.840
Yeah, and like everyone is we've grown up a lot too, and it's just the habits of just stayed, just because of that's that's how it worked for the like the last 10 years, I guess.
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:12.320
Cause I don't know, but then like my sister has moved out, um, so sh she was the one who ate a lot of food going through puberty, and like that's fine.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:18.079
Uh we I was hungry at that point too, but it was like there's chips here, it's gone.
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:20.320
There's uh something nice, it's gone.
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:26.800
But it's yeah, it's finding the new routines with the new house that are set up because she's not there anymore.
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.880
But now we have another guest, we have Saf.
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:31.679
So it's figuring out how we balance this all again.
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:34.079
Well, and also Saf is new to this.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:39.599
So, and Saf is, as we have mentioned, a very loving, a very patient human.
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:57.440
Um, but you can tell that they're a little like, I don't like this, you know, I want this to be tidier, I want the order, I look forward to the labels on bins, you know, and and so that helps with a motivation to get it to keep getting it together.
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:13.440
But then there's also okay, we gotta be sensitive to to what this is imposing on their mental health if this, you know, and they're they're so kind too, and so doesn't want to say something that might be hurtful, probably, you know.
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:22.960
I mean, they haven't said this to me, but I'm just saying imagining you don't want to enter into a new environment and be like, oh my goodness, I'm a little bit losing my mind here.
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:24.639
You know, when is it gonna come together?
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:35.280
But you know, they're just trusting the process and so in the process and so encouraging throughout, which is just so many partners I see are the opposite.
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:49.119
And I have to be like, we're nice to each other while I'm here, because the part of the brain that you need to make the decisions and to be excited about this shuts down when we get yelled at, when we get shamed, when someone says, I can't believe you've let it get this way.
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:50.800
Gosh, this is just ridiculous.
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.280
This is so gross, this is this is obnoxious.
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:56.079
You know, I hear that in many homes.
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:58.480
And it's like, so can we just pause on that?
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:03.280
Because you're actually you're not helping this, you know, you're actually making this harder.
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:22.239
So you've been very open, and you know, we've talked earlier about those dopamine hits, and I just want to touch on um, because you're so uh open and and in this process, like the size of your room and the amount of stuff could look like the H-word.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:25.599
So for those that don't know, reporting.
00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:35.599
I mean, it is that that tendency to keep and to keep and to you know, keep accumulating, not remove, and and there's an attachment to this stuff.
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:41.519
I uh there's a there's on the Institute for Challenging Disorganization, there's a a scale.
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:50.880
So, you know, not everybody is you can't just label people as as this is a very anti-label, you know, you don't label people, including our tendencies of stuff.
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:56.239
But you've been able to see your neurospice within your current your old room.
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:56.639
Yeah.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:44:04.480
It's like I I am ashamed of how it got to, and I think for a lot of hoarding situations, they don't want to admit that or they don't ask for help.
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:09.679
Um, and it's like it's just it's compounded over the years to the point where I just I can't do it all myself.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:15.440
We've tried to do it a few times, but then just because of just how small it is, it just keeps kind of compounding into that.
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:29.119
But getting moving all my small stuff down to the basement where there's so many more square feet now, and we have shelves and everything, it's just so much easier to figure out in there than just having everything in a pile.
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:41.119
Talk to me a little bit about that shame, because we did talk about the hoarders episodes we've seen and how it you know it's for entertainment, and a lot of that is gripped by getting their shame on camera.
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:44.960
You know, aren't you so shamed about you know how this has got?
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:46.719
And you just said you're ashamed of it.
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:50.400
But we've had a very delightful experience doing this.
00:44:50.719 --> 00:45:09.519
So talk about how you can hold space for that shame that you feel for how it got and the ability to, you know, to have one foot in, yep, I know it's there, we gotta get through it, but one foot in the new space of like, but we are, and I like this space better, and this is gonna work for us.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:16.880
Yeah, it's the it's the yeah, it's that the So sorry, the question again.
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:23.920
Like about that shame aspect, because I see you you identified with it, and I would never want to put it on you.
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:28.079
But I feel like you're so much more positive and looking at the forward thinking.
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:32.400
So, how are you getting yourself from the shame into I can do this?
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:38.639
The shame part of it is where I use that as a motivation now because we I've seen the change.
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:41.760
I have seen that it can be done and it can be done well.
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:47.519
So being able to say, okay, if I just push through this and we get through this, I will feel a lot better afterwards.
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:54.800
And especially for Staff, I want to make it for them because they've lived in such minimal housing in comparison to me, and I've lived this my whole life.
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.480
It's like I want to make you comfortable, I want to make this happy, I want this to work.
00:45:58.800 --> 00:45:59.199
Yeah.
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:01.119
John, close it out for us here.
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.679
I'll just say, you know, the you know, what's in it for me?
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:11.199
You know, overriding what's in it for me is that the space works for the whole family, and the whole family is Penn and Saf.
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:20.079
Um, my other son, Sean, who I haven't even mentioned, um, and and my wife who make the whole space uh um work really well.
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:21.519
And Sean is awesome, by the way.
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:32.239
Um and uh so that's that's what's in it for me, but also just some very tangible things of there's a front room and there's a dining room table.
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:33.840
I'm getting those back.
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:38.639
So the my front room from some of the cleaning now has some of my music stuff.
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:44.159
Uh I have a table that we could sit down and play a board game or eat a meal at.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.199
There's a I focused on what's in what's the goal.
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:51.679
When we get that when we get that table done, we'll sit and plan out another episode.
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:56.559
And at the end of all of this, we'll come back and talk about the whole thing.
00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:59.280
But thank you guys so much for being here.
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.519
Uh thank everybody for being at Pride.
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.519
There's still time to get in your car and go out and enjoy the parade and enjoy the festival.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:11.039
But for now, thank you for being here, sorting through life with Colleen Watterson on AM 950.
