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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Seahawks Insiders. Second down in two, the hand off, the penny at the fifteen attend five in touchsown Seahawks Getting you ready for Seahawks football every Sunday, first and tenant to Seattle forty play Facon Stafford's gonna stop, gonna look, gets hit Gouffs down back and midfield. Getting to him in the backfield is Daryl Taylor. Here's your host, Gen Mueller. I love that we have a reason to talk about Seahawks football, even if we are not getting you ready for game day. There is plenty to break down today, and we have a special guest. It is not just gonna be me and John Boyle from Seahawks dot Com. Hello, John Boyle, Hello, And that's not the best thing our listeners can hear. Oh goodness, it's not just Jen and John all right when they hear that, that's not no. What we're saying is this is an extra special bonus osode and we have an extra special Seahawks insider joining us today, the perfect guest to break down the Seahawks draft and the first time ever he has joined our podcast. Mister Rob rang Rob, thanks for taking some time. I know that it has been like a NonStop a few months for you. My goodness, it has been a little bit exhausting. Thank you so much both of you for having me. Well, we are going to make you dive deep on the draft picks because John and I already have opinions. We spend time talking last week. Let's recap what the Seahawks did before we dive in. John, I'm gonna put you on the hot seat first to ask the question. But let's go back. The Seahawks make nine picks, the number one pick in the first draft, which was actually pick number nine, offensive tackle Charles Cross out of Mississippi State. They address their need for offensive tackle twice in this draft. They do pick up a couple of linebackers edge rushers is more of how I would think about them instead of the traditional linebacker. A couple of corners and a couple of wide receivers in the late rounds that are kind of interesting. And I think that up and down this draft class, the Seahawks addressed a lot of need. So, John Boyle, what is the first question you have for mister Ring Well, I guess my good question for Rob, which I think is kind of for all this is is this draft almost surprising in its lack of surprise. I feel like most years we expect the Seahawks to kind of zig one other team zag, especially with those early picks, and they did things that we all maybe could have seen coming. I think if the absolutely did John, you know, go with the route that we anticipated in that they checked off an awful lot of boxes as far as their biggest areas of concern. At the same time, there was still was a little bit as zig to a lot of people's dag considering the fact that both of the two offensive tackles come from air raid systems that usually are you know, kind of players that are not as good in run blocking as they are in path blocking. And of course we know that Pete Carroll and John Scheier have always prioritized the run. But at the same time, when you look at the size, the physicality, the athletic ability, and just the opportunities that Charles Cross number nine overall, and of course Abraham Lucas number seventy two overall, when they did get their opportunities to run blocks, Charles Cross, excuse me, Abraham Lucas at the Senior Bowl for example, They've proved themselves to be very effective in that way as well. So I think that this was the first of the boxes that Sell checked off. But I think that it's checked off with exclamation point well. And I would say this for those that point to the fact that they have not done a lot of run blocking, there's two things on that. One. Just because they haven't been asked to do it doesn't mean that they can. But I talked to Steve Hutchinson the day after they picked Charles Cross and I said, Steve, how much stock do you place in this conversation? It was like, Jen, I see an athlete and I see an athlete at left tackle, and when I see that, I know that you can do both right Like that, So Rob, when you evaluate those guys, how much of it is just overall athletic talent? And it's what guys like Walter Joe had right, Like we've seen that here in Seattle. You don't talk about him being super great at one versus the other. He was a heck of an athlete, unbelievable athlete, obviously a Hall of famer, both of them, Steve Hutchinson as well as Walter Jones. I think That's what the thing about Charles Cross. To start off with him first, what you see is just a reactive athleticism. It's almost basketball like, the way that he can kind of mirror moving left to right, being able to get up to the second level adjust to linebackers, the arm length, the fact that he's just twenty one years old, the fact that he was a basically a superstar from the get go at left tackle in Mike Leach's offense at Mississippi State. I mentioned Mike Leap specifically guys because he was the head coach the last two years for the Bulldogs, but it was Joe Moorehead, a guy who played a little bit more of a kind of prototypical pro style kind of offense, was actually who recruited Charles rock Cross to Mississippi State in the first place. So he does have some experience in that offense. And then again, because of the fact that he is a relatively younger player, going back to Steve Hutchinson's comment, you just see the athletic tools that he possesses. This was absolutely a top ten caliber player. Seattle was lucky to get him. Frankly at number nine. Overall, I think that we might be talking about a future pro bowler at the most important position along the offensive line. It's gotta be nice for the Seas that you can send a Hall of Fame guard out to work with these guys and just be like, all right, hutch go check him out. And you know we've all been around hutch enough. No, he's not getting a blow smoke and sugarcoated. He's going to give him a real honest assessment. And I asked Pete Carroll john Shire about that after they referenced touch working cross out, and it's just it is just such a cool resource to be like, Okay, if Steve Hutchinson's tell me this guy can learn to run block, well, I'm going to take his word on it. I think one of the places that the Seahawks fan base thought the team zigged instead of zagged or vice versa is I'm not sure. I don't know that I think the Seahawks zagged in this art. We're gonna say that their second round pick, the running back out of Michigan State Rob Is that where you think they kind of went counter to what people were thinking or is there another pick? Well, I think if that would be the one that you could you could point to, you know, Keneth Walker the third from Michigan State. I mean, I don't know that it's a zigger zag in the aspect of the Seahawks have consistently drafted quality football players, especially in a Day two and Day three guys that maybe some people have kind of talked about and questioned a little bit, and yet when you watch them in their college tape, they've absolutely been dominant. And oh my goodness, was Kenneth Walker the third an absolutely dominant player at Michigan State. I mean, he was a good football player at Wake Forest and then gambled on himself, made that that that transfer over to Michigan State, and all the wound up being was a Dope Walker Award winner as the nation's best running back, led all Power five rushers in rushing yards this past season. You just see that the balance of through contact, you see the vision, you see the straight lines speed me four point three eight seconds in the forty yard dash. I mean that it's absolutely lightning. And so to me, this was one of the kind of slam dunk ty of Seahawks selections. I really thought that there was a possibility that that Seattle would make this one of those wildcard selections. I kind of talked about Keneth Walker the Third as well as Bruce Hall, the only other running back to go ahead of him, and again, Keneth Walker the Third actually had more rushing yards this past season than Bruce Hall. So I thought that this was a selection that makes sense if you know that the way the Seahawks operates. Sure, there's gonna be some others out there who thought that Seattle should have gone with a different positional group, but at the same time, again, if you're looking for guys that are going to be able to give you that immediate impact than Kenneth Walker the third, Michigan State certainly is going to be able to provide that. Two things all add to that. One. This is to me the luxury of getting acquiring that extra second round pick off. You can still go out get that pass rusher. You need this more. You know, what people want to say is the high value position, the need you go get Mafe and then you can get what is just arguably the best player you have left on your board and the Ken Walker. And look, I get some people like to say running backs don't matter, they're interchangeable, but there's plenty of recent data that shows, you know, the top running backs, the guys leading the league, the Pro Bowl guys are still first and second round picks. And whether you agree with how the Seahawks play offense or not, they are going to be a balanced team. Running Backs are important in this offense, and we've seen it ever since Marshawn Lentry died. It's hard to keep a running back healthy. He was the exception, the guy who just made it out there every week. That position is so hard to stay healthy. So having another really good player to pair with the guys you have. And again, we don't know what's going to happen with Chris Carson, Pete Carrolsman kind of. They just don't know about that injury yet. So to me, this pick makes a lot more sense than a lot of casual fans think with oh running back is too early. Well, and we don't know what's going to happen with Rashad Penny either. I would love to think that it picks up or a left off, but you do have to cover your bases on this one. I could keep asking some very specific draft questions, but before I do, Rob, I think one of the narratives that is coming out of this draft is the fact that the Seahawks seem to do such a good job of addressing needs in this draft, where if you compare that to pass drafts, it hasn't been as straightforward. I look at this and say, the Seahawks haven't had a top ten draft pick since twenty twelve. Right, of course, their board stacked up differently. John just mentioned the fact that you've got two second round picks. How much of this is just by virtue of where they are picking now versus trying to make the most of what you could do with you know, pick twenty eight or something like that. It's a really good point, Jen. I think that that is absolutely a big part of this, and I think the Seattle you know, has a little bit more flexibility the fact that this is a team that had to make some adjustments. I mean, you had some pretty significant areas of stern here, whereas in the past, when you were a team that was you know very much, you know, drafting in twenty eight, twenty ninth, thirtieth overall, you know, being one of those Super Bowl contenders, then there was it was so easy to see, Okay, well, see I don't need to tackle. Seettle needs an edge rusher, and if those three or four players went off the board, then they were kind of stuck. That's one of the reasons why John Scheider got that nickname around the League of Trader John is just because he was kind of forced to react because so many of the best players were already off the board long before the Seahawks had their best opportunities. But here when you do have some turnover at the offensive tackle position, you did had an obvious need for some more edge rushers. You had some questions at cornerback, and everybody nationally is talking about the quarterback. And I think that it just kind of proved that how fascinated Seattle is with Drew Locks upside, how comfortable that they are already with you, you you know, Smith, as well as Jacob Eason, and so it allowed Attle to be a little bit more flexible take the best player available. I had an opportunity to speak with a couple of Seattle scouts after Day one of the draft, and that was one of the things. They kind of walked out there, gave me a smile and just said best player available. And it just so happens that also obviously was one of the biggest areas of concern that Seattle is able to address the left tackle and Charles Cross. So again to Jen's point, I think that this did allow them a great deal of flexibility. They also by having that top ten selection, by having number forty, number forty one, by having number seventy two, four picks within the first seventy two picks, I mean that just gave them an awful lot of flexibility. Of course, last year they only had three selections overall. Again, to have four of the top seventy two just gave them an awful lot of chances to get the best player available. I think that they did that. John, what do you make of what people are saying about the cornerbacks? You know, it's it's an interesting the two they drafted or the position overall, well both, but the two they drafted and how they fit in, and I just I don't know, I'm intrigued by them, but I realize that not everybody takes that same position. You know, Rob could break this down. I'm sure he's studied these guys more me, But to me, it's just interesting because it's you've got it looks like one guy who's very polished to you know, Thorpe Award winner. He's the kind of guy that I could see Paul in the Trey. But we're talking about Kobe Bryant here could could pull a Trey Brown. And if Brown had been healthy coming out of camp, he was, he was getting number one reps before he got hurt in training camp. I could see Koebrant being that kind of guy, whereas Tree Wooley, I mean or Wall and excuse me. It's looks he's got the measurables off the chart, but I think we all know he's most likely more of a project for Pete Carroll to develop. And the guy that if you're that size and you run a four two in your fifth round pick, there's some growth that needs to happen, because if you were a finished product with those measurables, you'd be at the top five pick like the guys we saw go off the board. So it's interesting me just sort of the contrast of these two of one guy looks very polished and like he could play next week for the Seahawks, and one guy has just all the upside in the world. But you got to see think and make it come to fruition. I would agree with that, guys. I mean, I just think that the john Are took grade as well. That you're at the cornerback position even more so than an edge rusher, which I feel I still think that Seattle took that same kind of approach offensive tackles slightly less wide receiver. I love that Seattle kind of double dipped with these four positions of need and also four positions of excellent strength in this year's draft class. And then again specifically at the cornerback position, you've got a guy in Kobe Bryant who is as pro ready as it gets me. This is a four year starter at Cincinnati, as John mentioned, a Thorpe Award winner as the nation's most productive defensive back. And it wasn't just the interceptions. It wasn't just the past breakups. It's forced fumbles. It's the fact that he goes to the Senior Bowl and he is a guy that is staying after practice to help coach up some of the other defensive backs that were there in crowding Tariq Willan and then Wollan, Oh my goodness, talk about it. Just a combine. You know. I hate saying the word freak because it can be perceived as a slight, and it is certainly not a slight when you're talking about a guy who at six four two hundred pounds running in a four point two six, which fastest the combined forty two inch vertical best at the combine and in the forest. We know Seattle's history, We know how Pete Carroll was able to help Richard Sherman make that transition from a wide receiver to quarterback, just like Wooland is doing as a fifth round selection. No Less is a Senior Bowl guy that that really flashed No Less that There's just so many things about it that that kind of just we've been down this road before, and this road resulted in a Lombardi Trophy for the Seahawks. So that, to me is the most exciting thing. Is this just feels like turned back the clock day or something for the Seahawks because they didn't get so many good football players because again they allow the draft to kind of come to them. They got really good players that happen to be positions of concern, but also because the twenty twenty two draft was absolutely loaded at tackle, edge rush, your cornerback and wide receiver before we move on Jed, I was going to say with Wollen, I would love to see at Miniicamp this week, does Pete Carroll do anything but coach Tree Wallen this week? I could see three days of just Pete off to the side. I don't know if you remember with Trey Flowers eat a little bit of that at Ricky Mancamp. I think we're going to see a lot of one on one time with those two. Well, and here's what I was going to say. I know that everybody looks at him and thinks Richard Sherman. Right, you can't look at him and think anything else. But my question to both of you, and I thought about this for as many different comps as came up for past Seahawks players that did, like when we were doing draft day things, is that a good thing or a bad thing, because it wasn't just Sherm Right. You're looking at bow Melton and you're saying, man, he could do something like what Doug Baldwin did, and that's awesome, right, And I love Sherman and I love Doug. What people forget is Richard Trman was not Richard Sherman out of the gate. Richard Sherman was not a starter. He only got in the game more guys got hurt. Yeah, right, And part of the reason now, he is a very talented football player and he is very smart. He also had a very strong secondary around him, and he had a very good front seven in front of him. So I'm wondering, like, how much does that help and does that hurt? Because expectations get set based on that comp But I don't think we always remember how that player got to be what they ended up, you know what I mean. I mean, look, it's it's inevitable all the guys. You know that. You look at the length and you look at the position switch, and I totally get where people are coming from. But it's you can take it with a grain of salt and say, Okay, I see the similarities. But if people are gonna say, look, this guy's the next Richard Sherman, that's just unfair expectation to putle. I mean, Richard Sherman is a once in a lifetime competitor. And just like the drive that guy had, which we don't know yet, you know what trick Willen is in that regard, And I also think it's probably fair stares Deserman was a little more polished as a corner coming out. He was playing at a major conference school starting multiple years there after. Making that switch wasn't as fast either, I mean, didn't have quite the measurable as that well and does so again, it's you know, the comparisons aren't edible just because of similarities, but it's pretty unfair to just look at it and say he should be the next Richard Sherman. Excellent point, guys. I'm happy that you made it. I think that we just I call it the McDonaldization of sports. We basically want these guys to be immediate, you know, immediate pro bowlers, and so if yeah, it's just the nature of the business when you're in the business. I'm in as a draft analyst, so you have to use comparisons. But I agree with with Jen's initial point here as far as that there's a lot of Seahawk fans that are expecting him to come in and be Richard Sherman immediately. And to me, one of the underrated elements of Richard Sherman's greatness is the fact that he was one of the most reliable open field tacklers at the cornerback position. I've ever seen. He had unbelievable ball skills as well. Those are two areas that Tarik Willan simply is not in the same planet as Richard Sherman, at least not yet. John just made the point about the competitiveness of Richard Sherman. We all saw that, and so if Wollen is going to become anything close to what Richard Sherman was, then and then certainly Wollen is going to have to prove that he is that type of competitor. He is going to have to be able to kind of use those long arms thirty four inch arms, by the way, to be able to lasso ball cares, be able to drop a shoulder into ball cares the way that Richard Sherman did. And he's also going to have to be able to show improve ball skills. He had two interceptions over his college careerman. Richard Sherman had that just about every game. It felt lack of times, you know. So those are certainly some areas in which Trick Willen has a long way to go. But Jen made the point before about just what an incredible athlete that Woollen is, and that is one of the things that he is an upgrade over Sherman and just straight line speed in terms of his leaping ability, and so again the upside is through the roof, but we do need to kind of pause on the expectations, especially as a rookie. I think that trick Willens most likely scenario as a rookie is that he's going to be a superstar gunner on special teams and perhaps get some play at the cornerback position, not walk in and be competing for all Pro votes. That's exactly where I was going to go with this because if I have a concern of this draft, and it's far too early to have a concern, right, but special teams needs to be restocked, and typically you're going to use those skill guys. So those two wide receivers in the seventh round, if they make the team, that's what you're looking at. But yeah, you need a gunner, you need some difference makers on special teams, and I think that Terek is a good one there. I don't know what to make of the wide receivers, and I've got questions about the wide receivers, and I have questions about the pass rushers. Does Tyreek Smith out of Ohio State have enough moves after playing in that conference to be effective out of the gates in the NFL, in my opinion, and he does. You know, I see a guy who has speed, who has power, who uses hands very well. My biggest area of concern with Tarik Smith from Ohio State is just a Durham building. I mean, he has just struggled with that at Ohio State. Now. I love the fact that he is coming from a program like the Buckeyes that just consistently churns out quality players. He is not going to be as intimidated with Seattle's talent already on the field that maybe some others would be. I think that he's going to feel challenged by the idea that another big ten player in Boye Mafe actually wound up obviously going earlier and is being perceived as the more grow ready kind of a guy just because of the fact that he was selected earlier than that. I think that's going to kind of put a charge into Arry Smith. So I think that he absolutely can be that guy. To me, he is very similar to the situation we saw a couple of years ago with Darryl Taylor and Alton Robinson that you're going to see both these players. I think you're gonna wind up competing for significant minutes, but it's going to be fairly clear. I think once we start getting onto the field that just like Darryll Taylor that with Moya Moffa, you're talking about a guy who just has a different level of speed, a different level ability to turn the corner and really close on the quarterback. But Kyrie sniff lashes that as well. I'm excited to see what he is able to do. And again to your point, Jen, I think they can both perform on special teams every bit as much as they can on defense. I feel like I'm dominating the conversation, John, Do you have burning questions that you want to ask? Otherwise I'm going to ask my wide receiver one and then we're going to wrap up here in a couple of minutes, So I don't want to dominate it. Jen, We're better when you're driving the car. Does everybody hear that? And can I get that on a loop? Not just for podcasts, but can you please tell my husband I am better when I'm driving the car. Sure, Nas, I'll cut that for you and you can save it. Hey, no, it's your phone. So the bad words that come out of my mouth when I'm driving a car. But that's neither here nor there. Okay, Rob, My last question for this draft class is wide receiver. It is such a deep class of wide receivers. Is it, like, let me rephrase that. Is it a deep enough class to think that the Seahawks found a couple of players in the seventh round. Yeah, I think that it is. And I'm shocked to say that. But the two receivers that Seattle selected, you know, bow Melton from Rutgers, I mean, his production the Big ten speaks for itself again, another Senior Bowl guy. And then with Derek Young, I mean, oh my goodness. You just kind of watched the tape on him. You see the workout numbers, you just see the pictures of this guy. I mean, he's just absolutely built, you know, the way that you're looking for. I always thought that it was kind of surprising when you looked at the way the Seahawks roster was built into wide receiver position. Besides DK Metcalf, there wasn't a lot of guys who had size, and Drake Young certainly has that. And with bow Melton, it's his quickness, it's his ability in the middle of the field, and that is something I think that in Shane Waldron's offense, you're going to see Seattle trying to explain a little bit more. We talked about this before with the way that Seattle double dip at different positions here. I really like that you got a guy who is a kind of a shorter, shiftier, you know, interior kind of threat, and then you got a guy on the outside who can be that gunner, who also can be that vertical threat. And oh my goodness, they also used him almost like as a Deebo Samuel kind of a runner out of the backfield jet sweeps things as well. I just really like the positional versatility that both of these two wide receivers selected for Seattle are going to be able to offer the club. Yeah, I would say in that offense, sorry John, to cut off. In that offense, you don't really want to see Tyler Lockett work in the middle of the field as much as he did. You'd like to have one of these other guys that is a Doug Baldwin Bobby Ingram type that's a little bit more shifty and let Tyler take care of some of those even if it's a deep cross down field bit, but get him out of some of that danger zone underneath John. And this is always a case with these late round picks. If they're going to make this team, it's going to be on special teams. In both these guys played a tunnel special teams in college. They've got, you know, as Rob said, different makeups, but they're both really good athletes. And I think you know, we've this team has a long history of undrafted late round receivers Doug Ball and Jermaine Curse, uh, David More just different guys who have you know, made their roster spot on special teams mostly and then carved out roles on offense. So I think if these guys are going to make the team and contribute, they could be more guys that are restocking special teams. As you said, Jen, they need to do. I would also point out that I might think Derek is too smart to be playing football. Like we've had some smart guys. We have our Stanford guys, we have a Harvard guy. Derek is working on his NBA And what is he he mastered in or he majored in late engineering, engineering, physics or something. Yeah, what do you do when playing football, like you used that brain for something like like world changing. I am so impressed with that young man after talking to him for just a few minutes. So overall, Rob, I think what you're saying is the Seahawks get a good grade this year, and they give the grade for years to come. I think based on this draft class. Agree, Yeah, I gave may. I think that this is one of the better draft classes and in all of the NFL. I think that it was needed. Frankly, I mean Pete and John talked about that that they needed to kind of reassure scouts or reassure excuse me, reassure Seahawk fans that they knew what they were doing if they were set about the fact that they were picking as early as they did. I thought that they needed to do a really nice job in this draft class and restocking the shelves. And I applaud them for the discipline of not just kind of, you know, bodying the debate with the quarterbacks instead rebuilding the team that the way they did it in the first time around, and that to me is I think it is going to set them up for not only success this upcoming season, but certainly in the future as well. I love it, John, this was a good get as the guest. It's a nice idea for fancy miss it. Rob was all over seahawks dot com free draft writing stories for us, so we're a have to running back next draft. It upgraded our coverage quite a bit from just having yours truly right about it well, was definitely kind of both of you. Thank you guys so much for having me. Yeah, we are definitely going to invite Rob back and we are definitely going to be back with you in the coming weeks because that schedule comes out. It is my favorite day of the year when I get to scope out where we are going to be. We already know that we're going to community in Germany, yes, but John and I will be breaking down the Seahawks schedule after it comes out on the next edition of the Seahawks Insiders podcast. That is when you will hear from us next. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Seahawks Insiders. Second down in two, the hand off, the penny at the fifteen attend five in touchsown Seahawks Getting you ready for Seahawks football every Sunday, first and tenant to Seattle forty play Facon Stafford's gonna stop, gonna look, gets hit Gouffs down back and midfield. Getting to him in the backfield is Daryl Taylor. Here's your host, Gen Mueller. I love that we have a reason to talk about Seahawks football, even if we are not getting you ready for game day. There is plenty to break down today, and we have a special guest. It is not just gonna be me and John Boyle from Seahawks dot Com. Hello, John Boyle, Hello, And that's not the best thing our listeners can hear. Oh goodness, it's not just Jen and John all right when they hear that, that's not no. What we're saying is this is an extra special bonus osode and we have an extra special Seahawks insider joining us today, the perfect guest to break down the Seahawks draft and the first time ever he has joined our podcast. Mister Rob rang Rob, thanks for taking some time. I know that it has been like a NonStop a few months for you. My goodness, it has been a little bit exhausting. Thank you so much both of you for having me. Well, we are going to make you dive deep on the draft picks because John and I already have opinions. We spend time talking last week. Let's recap what the Seahawks did before we dive in. John, I'm gonna put you on the hot seat first to ask the question. But let's go back. The Seahawks make nine picks, the number one pick in the first draft, which was actually pick number nine, offensive tackle Charles Cross out of Mississippi State. They address their need for offensive tackle twice in this draft. They do pick up a couple of linebackers edge rushers is more of how I would think about them instead of the traditional linebacker. A couple of corners and a couple of wide receivers in the late rounds that are kind of interesting. And I think that up and down this draft class, the Seahawks addressed a lot of need. So, John Boyle, what is the first question you have for mister Ring Well, I guess my good question for Rob, which I think is kind of for all this is is this draft almost surprising in its lack of surprise. I feel like most years we expect the Seahawks to kind of zig one other team zag, especially with those early picks, and they did things that we all maybe could have seen coming. I think if the absolutely did John, you know, go with the route that we anticipated in that they checked off an awful lot of boxes as far as their biggest areas of concern. At the same time, there was still was a little bit as zig to a lot of people's dag considering the fact that both of the two offensive tackles come from air raid systems that usually are you know, kind of players that are not as good in run blocking as they are in path blocking. And of course we know that Pete Carroll and John Scheier have always prioritized the run. But at the same time, when you look at the size, the physicality, the athletic ability, and just the opportunities that Charles Cross number nine overall, and of course Abraham Lucas number seventy two overall, when they did get their opportunities to run blocks, Charles Cross, excuse me, Abraham Lucas at the Senior Bowl for example, They've proved themselves to be very effective in that way as well. So I think that this was the first of the boxes that Sell checked off. But I think that it's checked off with exclamation point well. And I would say this for those that point to the fact that they have not done a lot of run blocking, there's two things on that. One. Just because they haven't been asked to do it doesn't mean that they can. But I talked to Steve Hutchinson the day after they picked Charles Cross and I said, Steve, how much stock do you place in this conversation? It was like, Jen, I see an athlete and I see an athlete at left tackle, and when I see that, I know that you can do both right Like that, So Rob, when you evaluate those guys, how much of it is just overall athletic talent? And it's what guys like Walter Joe had right, Like we've seen that here in Seattle. You don't talk about him being super great at one versus the other. He was a heck of an athlete, unbelievable athlete, obviously a Hall of famer, both of them, Steve Hutchinson as well as Walter Jones. I think That's what the thing about Charles Cross. To start off with him first, what you see is just a reactive athleticism. It's almost basketball like, the way that he can kind of mirror moving left to right, being able to get up to the second level adjust to linebackers, the arm length, the fact that he's just twenty one years old, the fact that he was a basically a superstar from the get go at left tackle in Mike Leach's offense at Mississippi State. I mentioned Mike Leap specifically guys because he was the head coach the last two years for the Bulldogs, but it was Joe Moorehead, a guy who played a little bit more of a kind of prototypical pro style kind of offense, was actually who recruited Charles rock Cross to Mississippi State in the first place. So he does have some experience in that offense. And then again, because of the fact that he is a relatively younger player, going back to Steve Hutchinson's comment, you just see the athletic tools that he possesses. This was absolutely a top ten caliber player. Seattle was lucky to get him. Frankly at number nine. Overall, I think that we might be talking about a future pro bowler at the most important position along the offensive line. It's gotta be nice for the Seas that you can send a Hall of Fame guard out to work with these guys and just be like, all right, hutch go check him out. And you know we've all been around hutch enough. No, he's not getting a blow smoke and sugarcoated. He's going to give him a real honest assessment. And I asked Pete Carroll john Shire about that after they referenced touch working cross out, and it's just it is just such a cool resource to be like, Okay, if Steve Hutchinson's tell me this guy can learn to run block, well, I'm going to take his word on it. I think one of the places that the Seahawks fan base thought the team zigged instead of zagged or vice versa is I'm not sure. I don't know that I think the Seahawks zagged in this art. We're gonna say that their second round pick, the running back out of Michigan State Rob Is that where you think they kind of went counter to what people were thinking or is there another pick? Well, I think if that would be the one that you could you could point to, you know, Keneth Walker the third from Michigan State. I mean, I don't know that it's a zigger zag in the aspect of the Seahawks have consistently drafted quality football players, especially in a Day two and Day three guys that maybe some people have kind of talked about and questioned a little bit, and yet when you watch them in their college tape, they've absolutely been dominant. And oh my goodness, was Kenneth Walker the third an absolutely dominant player at Michigan State. I mean, he was a good football player at Wake Forest and then gambled on himself, made that that that transfer over to Michigan State, and all the wound up being was a Dope Walker Award winner as the nation's best running back, led all Power five rushers in rushing yards this past season. You just see that the balance of through contact, you see the vision, you see the straight lines speed me four point three eight seconds in the forty yard dash. I mean that it's absolutely lightning. And so to me, this was one of the kind of slam dunk ty of Seahawks selections. I really thought that there was a possibility that that Seattle would make this one of those wildcard selections. I kind of talked about Keneth Walker the Third as well as Bruce Hall, the only other running back to go ahead of him, and again, Keneth Walker the Third actually had more rushing yards this past season than Bruce Hall. So I thought that this was a selection that makes sense if you know that the way the Seahawks operates. Sure, there's gonna be some others out there who thought that Seattle should have gone with a different positional group, but at the same time, again, if you're looking for guys that are going to be able to give you that immediate impact than Kenneth Walker the third, Michigan State certainly is going to be able to provide that. Two things all add to that. One. This is to me the luxury of getting acquiring that extra second round pick off. You can still go out get that pass rusher. You need this more. You know, what people want to say is the high value position, the need you go get Mafe and then you can get what is just arguably the best player you have left on your board and the Ken Walker. And look, I get some people like to say running backs don't matter, they're interchangeable, but there's plenty of recent data that shows, you know, the top running backs, the guys leading the league, the Pro Bowl guys are still first and second round picks. And whether you agree with how the Seahawks play offense or not, they are going to be a balanced team. Running Backs are important in this offense, and we've seen it ever since Marshawn Lentry died. It's hard to keep a running back healthy. He was the exception, the guy who just made it out there every week. That position is so hard to stay healthy. So having another really good player to pair with the guys you have. And again, we don't know what's going to happen with Chris Carson, Pete Carrolsman kind of. They just don't know about that injury yet. So to me, this pick makes a lot more sense than a lot of casual fans think with oh running back is too early. Well, and we don't know what's going to happen with Rashad Penny either. I would love to think that it picks up or a left off, but you do have to cover your bases on this one. I could keep asking some very specific draft questions, but before I do, Rob, I think one of the narratives that is coming out of this draft is the fact that the Seahawks seem to do such a good job of addressing needs in this draft, where if you compare that to pass drafts, it hasn't been as straightforward. I look at this and say, the Seahawks haven't had a top ten draft pick since twenty twelve. Right, of course, their board stacked up differently. John just mentioned the fact that you've got two second round picks. How much of this is just by virtue of where they are picking now versus trying to make the most of what you could do with you know, pick twenty eight or something like that. It's a really good point, Jen. I think that that is absolutely a big part of this, and I think the Seattle you know, has a little bit more flexibility the fact that this is a team that had to make some adjustments. I mean, you had some pretty significant areas of stern here, whereas in the past, when you were a team that was you know very much, you know, drafting in twenty eight, twenty ninth, thirtieth overall, you know, being one of those Super Bowl contenders, then there was it was so easy to see, Okay, well, see I don't need to tackle. Seettle needs an edge rusher, and if those three or four players went off the board, then they were kind of stuck. That's one of the reasons why John Scheider got that nickname around the League of Trader John is just because he was kind of forced to react because so many of the best players were already off the board long before the Seahawks had their best opportunities. But here when you do have some turnover at the offensive tackle position, you did had an obvious need for some more edge rushers. You had some questions at cornerback, and everybody nationally is talking about the quarterback. And I think that it just kind of proved that how fascinated Seattle is with Drew Locks upside, how comfortable that they are already with you, you you know, Smith, as well as Jacob Eason, and so it allowed Attle to be a little bit more flexible take the best player available. I had an opportunity to speak with a couple of Seattle scouts after Day one of the draft, and that was one of the things. They kind of walked out there, gave me a smile and just said best player available. And it just so happens that also obviously was one of the biggest areas of concern that Seattle is able to address the left tackle and Charles Cross. So again to Jen's point, I think that this did allow them a great deal of flexibility. They also by having that top ten selection, by having number forty, number forty one, by having number seventy two, four picks within the first seventy two picks, I mean that just gave them an awful lot of flexibility. Of course, last year they only had three selections overall. Again, to have four of the top seventy two just gave them an awful lot of chances to get the best player available. I think that they did that. John, what do you make of what people are saying about the cornerbacks? You know, it's it's an interesting the two they drafted or the position overall, well both, but the two they drafted and how they fit in, and I just I don't know, I'm intrigued by them, but I realize that not everybody takes that same position. You know, Rob could break this down. I'm sure he's studied these guys more me, But to me, it's just interesting because it's you've got it looks like one guy who's very polished to you know, Thorpe Award winner. He's the kind of guy that I could see Paul in the Trey. But we're talking about Kobe Bryant here could could pull a Trey Brown. And if Brown had been healthy coming out of camp, he was, he was getting number one reps before he got hurt in training camp. I could see Koebrant being that kind of guy, whereas Tree Wooley, I mean or Wall and excuse me. It's looks he's got the measurables off the chart, but I think we all know he's most likely more of a project for Pete Carroll to develop. And the guy that if you're that size and you run a four two in your fifth round pick, there's some growth that needs to happen, because if you were a finished product with those measurables, you'd be at the top five pick like the guys we saw go off the board. So it's interesting me just sort of the contrast of these two of one guy looks very polished and like he could play next week for the Seahawks, and one guy has just all the upside in the world. But you got to see think and make it come to fruition. I would agree with that, guys. I mean, I just think that the john Are took grade as well. That you're at the cornerback position even more so than an edge rusher, which I feel I still think that Seattle took that same kind of approach offensive tackles slightly less wide receiver. I love that Seattle kind of double dipped with these four positions of need and also four positions of excellent strength in this year's draft class. And then again specifically at the cornerback position, you've got a guy in Kobe Bryant who is as pro ready as it gets me. This is a four year starter at Cincinnati, as John mentioned, a Thorpe Award winner as the nation's most productive defensive back. And it wasn't just the interceptions. It wasn't just the past breakups. It's forced fumbles. It's the fact that he goes to the Senior Bowl and he is a guy that is staying after practice to help coach up some of the other defensive backs that were there in crowding Tariq Willan and then Wollan, Oh my goodness, talk about it. Just a combine. You know. I hate saying the word freak because it can be perceived as a slight, and it is certainly not a slight when you're talking about a guy who at six four two hundred pounds running in a four point two six, which fastest the combined forty two inch vertical best at the combine and in the forest. We know Seattle's history, We know how Pete Carroll was able to help Richard Sherman make that transition from a wide receiver to quarterback, just like Wooland is doing as a fifth round selection. No Less is a Senior Bowl guy that that really flashed No Less that There's just so many things about it that that kind of just we've been down this road before, and this road resulted in a Lombardi Trophy for the Seahawks. So that, to me is the most exciting thing. Is this just feels like turned back the clock day or something for the Seahawks because they didn't get so many good football players because again they allow the draft to kind of come to them. They got really good players that happen to be positions of concern, but also because the twenty twenty two draft was absolutely loaded at tackle, edge rush, your cornerback and wide receiver before we move on Jed, I was going to say with Wollen, I would love to see at Miniicamp this week, does Pete Carroll do anything but coach Tree Wallen this week? I could see three days of just Pete off to the side. I don't know if you remember with Trey Flowers eat a little bit of that at Ricky Mancamp. I think we're going to see a lot of one on one time with those two. Well, and here's what I was going to say. I know that everybody looks at him and thinks Richard Sherman. Right, you can't look at him and think anything else. But my question to both of you, and I thought about this for as many different comps as came up for past Seahawks players that did, like when we were doing draft day things, is that a good thing or a bad thing, because it wasn't just Sherm Right. You're looking at bow Melton and you're saying, man, he could do something like what Doug Baldwin did, and that's awesome, right, And I love Sherman and I love Doug. What people forget is Richard Trman was not Richard Sherman out of the gate. Richard Sherman was not a starter. He only got in the game more guys got hurt. Yeah, right, And part of the reason now, he is a very talented football player and he is very smart. He also had a very strong secondary around him, and he had a very good front seven in front of him. So I'm wondering, like, how much does that help and does that hurt? Because expectations get set based on that comp But I don't think we always remember how that player got to be what they ended up, you know what I mean. I mean, look, it's it's inevitable all the guys. You know that. You look at the length and you look at the position switch, and I totally get where people are coming from. But it's you can take it with a grain of salt and say, Okay, I see the similarities. But if people are gonna say, look, this guy's the next Richard Sherman, that's just unfair expectation to putle. I mean, Richard Sherman is a once in a lifetime competitor. And just like the drive that guy had, which we don't know yet, you know what trick Willen is in that regard, And I also think it's probably fair stares Deserman was a little more polished as a corner coming out. He was playing at a major conference school starting multiple years there after. Making that switch wasn't as fast either, I mean, didn't have quite the measurable as that well and does so again, it's you know, the comparisons aren't edible just because of similarities, but it's pretty unfair to just look at it and say he should be the next Richard Sherman. Excellent point, guys. I'm happy that you made it. I think that we just I call it the McDonaldization of sports. We basically want these guys to be immediate, you know, immediate pro bowlers, and so if yeah, it's just the nature of the business when you're in the business. I'm in as a draft analyst, so you have to use comparisons. But I agree with with Jen's initial point here as far as that there's a lot of Seahawk fans that are expecting him to come in and be Richard Sherman immediately. And to me, one of the underrated elements of Richard Sherman's greatness is the fact that he was one of the most reliable open field tacklers at the cornerback position. I've ever seen. He had unbelievable ball skills as well. Those are two areas that Tarik Willan simply is not in the same planet as Richard Sherman, at least not yet. John just made the point about the competitiveness of Richard Sherman. We all saw that, and so if Wollen is going to become anything close to what Richard Sherman was, then and then certainly Wollen is going to have to prove that he is that type of competitor. He is going to have to be able to kind of use those long arms thirty four inch arms, by the way, to be able to lasso ball cares, be able to drop a shoulder into ball cares the way that Richard Sherman did. And he's also going to have to be able to show improve ball skills. He had two interceptions over his college careerman. Richard Sherman had that just about every game. It felt lack of times, you know. So those are certainly some areas in which Trick Willen has a long way to go. But Jen made the point before about just what an incredible athlete that Woollen is, and that is one of the things that he is an upgrade over Sherman and just straight line speed in terms of his leaping ability, and so again the upside is through the roof, but we do need to kind of pause on the expectations, especially as a rookie. I think that trick Willens most likely scenario as a rookie is that he's going to be a superstar gunner on special teams and perhaps get some play at the cornerback position, not walk in and be competing for all Pro votes. That's exactly where I was going to go with this because if I have a concern of this draft, and it's far too early to have a concern, right, but special teams needs to be restocked, and typically you're going to use those skill guys. So those two wide receivers in the seventh round, if they make the team, that's what you're looking at. But yeah, you need a gunner, you need some difference makers on special teams, and I think that Terek is a good one there. I don't know what to make of the wide receivers, and I've got questions about the wide receivers, and I have questions about the pass rushers. Does Tyreek Smith out of Ohio State have enough moves after playing in that conference to be effective out of the gates in the NFL, in my opinion, and he does. You know, I see a guy who has speed, who has power, who uses hands very well. My biggest area of concern with Tarik Smith from Ohio State is just a Durham building. I mean, he has just struggled with that at Ohio State. Now. I love the fact that he is coming from a program like the Buckeyes that just consistently churns out quality players. He is not going to be as intimidated with Seattle's talent already on the field that maybe some others would be. I think that he's going to feel challenged by the idea that another big ten player in Boye Mafe actually wound up obviously going earlier and is being perceived as the more grow ready kind of a guy just because of the fact that he was selected earlier than that. I think that's going to kind of put a charge into Arry Smith. So I think that he absolutely can be that guy. To me, he is very similar to the situation we saw a couple of years ago with Darryl Taylor and Alton Robinson that you're going to see both these players. I think you're gonna wind up competing for significant minutes, but it's going to be fairly clear. I think once we start getting onto the field that just like Darryll Taylor that with Moya Moffa, you're talking about a guy who just has a different level of speed, a different level ability to turn the corner and really close on the quarterback. But Kyrie sniff lashes that as well. I'm excited to see what he is able to do. And again to your point, Jen, I think they can both perform on special teams every bit as much as they can on defense. I feel like I'm dominating the conversation, John, Do you have burning questions that you want to ask? Otherwise I'm going to ask my wide receiver one and then we're going to wrap up here in a couple of minutes, So I don't want to dominate it. Jen, We're better when you're driving the car. Does everybody hear that? And can I get that on a loop? Not just for podcasts, but can you please tell my husband I am better when I'm driving the car. Sure, Nas, I'll cut that for you and you can save it. Hey, no, it's your phone. So the bad words that come out of my mouth when I'm driving a car. But that's neither here nor there. Okay, Rob, My last question for this draft class is wide receiver. It is such a deep class of wide receivers. Is it, like, let me rephrase that. Is it a deep enough class to think that the Seahawks found a couple of players in the seventh round. Yeah, I think that it is. And I'm shocked to say that. But the two receivers that Seattle selected, you know, bow Melton from Rutgers, I mean, his production the Big ten speaks for itself again, another Senior Bowl guy. And then with Derek Young, I mean, oh my goodness. You just kind of watched the tape on him. You see the workout numbers, you just see the pictures of this guy. I mean, he's just absolutely built, you know, the way that you're looking for. I always thought that it was kind of surprising when you looked at the way the Seahawks roster was built into wide receiver position. Besides DK Metcalf, there wasn't a lot of guys who had size, and Drake Young certainly has that. And with bow Melton, it's his quickness, it's his ability in the middle of the field, and that is something I think that in Shane Waldron's offense, you're going to see Seattle trying to explain a little bit more. We talked about this before with the way that Seattle double dip at different positions here. I really like that you got a guy who is a kind of a shorter, shiftier, you know, interior kind of threat, and then you got a guy on the outside who can be that gunner, who also can be that vertical threat. And oh my goodness, they also used him almost like as a Deebo Samuel kind of a runner out of the backfield jet sweeps things as well. I just really like the positional versatility that both of these two wide receivers selected for Seattle are going to be able to offer the club. Yeah, I would say in that offense, sorry John, to cut off. In that offense, you don't really want to see Tyler Lockett work in the middle of the field as much as he did. You'd like to have one of these other guys that is a Doug Baldwin Bobby Ingram type that's a little bit more shifty and let Tyler take care of some of those even if it's a deep cross down field bit, but get him out of some of that danger zone underneath John. And this is always a case with these late round picks. If they're going to make this team, it's going to be on special teams. In both these guys played a tunnel special teams in college. They've got, you know, as Rob said, different makeups, but they're both really good athletes. And I think you know, we've this team has a long history of undrafted late round receivers Doug Ball and Jermaine Curse, uh, David More just different guys who have you know, made their roster spot on special teams mostly and then carved out roles on offense. So I think if these guys are going to make the team and contribute, they could be more guys that are restocking special teams. As you said, Jen, they need to do. I would also point out that I might think Derek is too smart to be playing football. Like we've had some smart guys. We have our Stanford guys, we have a Harvard guy. Derek is working on his NBA And what is he he mastered in or he majored in late engineering, engineering, physics or something. Yeah, what do you do when playing football, like you used that brain for something like like world changing. I am so impressed with that young man after talking to him for just a few minutes. So overall, Rob, I think what you're saying is the Seahawks get a good grade this year, and they give the grade for years to come. I think based on this draft class. Agree, Yeah, I gave may. I think that this is one of the better draft classes and in all of the NFL. I think that it was needed. Frankly, I mean Pete and John talked about that that they needed to kind of reassure scouts or reassure excuse me, reassure Seahawk fans that they knew what they were doing if they were set about the fact that they were picking as early as they did. I thought that they needed to do a really nice job in this draft class and restocking the shelves. And I applaud them for the discipline of not just kind of, you know, bodying the debate with the quarterbacks instead rebuilding the team that the way they did it in the first time around, and that to me is I think it is going to set them up for not only success this upcoming season, but certainly in the future as well. I love it, John, this was a good get as the guest. It's a nice idea for fancy miss it. Rob was all over seahawks dot com free draft writing stories for us, so we're a have to running back next draft. It upgraded our coverage quite a bit from just having yours truly right about it well, was definitely kind of both of you. Thank you guys so much for having me. Yeah, we are definitely going to invite Rob back and we are definitely going to be back with you in the coming weeks because that schedule comes out. It is my favorite day of the year when I get to scope out where we are going to be. We already know that we're going to community in Germany, yes, but John and I will be breaking down the Seahawks schedule after it comes out on the next edition of the Seahawks Insiders podcast. That is when you will hear from us next. Thanks for listening.
