00;00;00;00 - 00;00;28;00
Hello I'm Henry Borrebach, host of Reef Exchanges, the podcast brought to you by the Reef Resilience Network. For 20 years, the network has been a global leader in training marine managers and other practitioners to effectively manage, protect and restore coral reefs. We do this by turning scientific information and in the water experience into operational knowledge, tools and guidance to help those who are tasked with caring for the world's reefs.
00;00;28;03 - 00;00;50;22
This podcast is one of the methods we use to bring the latest science and strategies to marine managers to support effective management of critical coastal areas. 2025 marks the network's 20th anniversary, which we're really excited about, so we just want to thank and celebrate you, our network members and our listeners, all of the people that have worked for and with the network over the years.
00;00;50;24 - 00;01;12;20
I've only been here a couple years myself. So to take an old phrase, I feel that I'm, you know, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here as we continue our work moving into our, next decade of operations. So, again, thank you all so much for your time and expertise and ideas and of course, the hard and important work that you do day in and day out to care for our world's reefs and marine areas. But without any further ado, let's dive on in.
00;01;29;18 - 00;01;55;16
On this episode, I will be joined by my colleague Kristin Maize, Reef Resilience Network lead and doctor Angie Brathwaite, director of conservation and science at Blue Alliance, an organization that builds and manages marine protected areas through conservation financing. Not to be confused with the Blue Nature Alliance, our partner in helping to increase capacity and knowledge exchange around critical topics for marine resource management across the globe. With that, I'll go ahead and hand it off to Kristen. Tell us more about what we'll be discussing today.
00;02;02;26 - 00;02;26;17
Thanks, Henry. And hi, everybody. And our work to develop the NPA Finance Toolkit. I recently got a crash course in marine finance, and I have to admit, my head is still totally spinning from different finance mechanisms and terminology. But through that work, what is really clear to me is the reason why protected area finance is such an important topic.
00;02;26;19 - 00;02;58;18
According to recent research, almost two thirds of MPAs around the world report having insufficient budget to effectively manage or enforce their Cites. And historically, funding for MPAs has come primarily from government allocations, development assistance and philanthropy. Of course, there are many other funding streams, but these are, the top three through global initiatives like 30 by 30, governments are making more commitments than ever to protect our coasts and our waters, which is wonderful.
00;02;58;25 - 00;03;20;11
But with more or expanded protections, of course, comes a greater need for funding to ensure protected areas are well managed or effective. This is why we're talking about marine finance today. Our network members have asked for help exploring financing options that are going to be the best fit for them and their sites. Which is why I'm so excited for today's conversation.
00;03;20;11 - 00;03;45;00
Angie, before we get too far in, could you introduce yourself to our listeners? Maybe share a little bit about your journey from working as a marine manager to now providing finance expertise all over the world? And in honor of our 20 at the anniversary, as Henry mentioned. Could you also share a little bit about how you've engaged with the network over the years?
00;03;45;02 - 00;04;08;03
Hi. Thanks for having me. Okay, so there's a lot and I just wanted to say I'm not an economist by any stretch, so marine ecologist and my head spans with a bit of the finance as well. But, yeah, I, I'm you're not alone, but I do have to work with it. And I'm happy to share what I know with everyone.
00;04;08;06 - 00;04;35;18
So as you mentioned, I am a marine ecologist. I work with Blue Alliance as their director of science and conservation. My primary role is really to direct marine programs. But I think as many people know, the alliance is a bit different from other NGOs. And we try to help me so to, to perspectives on the sustainable financing.
00;04;35;18 - 00;05;08;15
And the other one is improving effective management. So I started as a marine biologist or coastal cell management unit in Barbados. So I had that department for around 18 years. Along the way, jumped into the jungle and now with some marine expeditions. And so I did a lot with volunteers, I did a lot with the government, and I worked a lot with the private sector as well.
00;05;08;18 - 00;05;35;11
My journey. I think I can start there with my journey. I started, I think, interacting with reef resilience. I, I feel like it's almost 20 years ago, actually. Edmonds and again, I did a writing workshop with you 12 out 15 years ago. It was a really good experience and an introduction to writing scientific papers.
00;05;35;11 - 00;05;58;14
It was quite an eye opener. And now, I find I use the network quite often, but online it's there's just so much information floating around about so many things. And it's really good to come to one, one place and have such an array of information. And of course, the webinars are excellent. As well. Okay. Thanks, Angie.
00;05;58;16 - 00;06;21;00
And thanks for sharing about your journey. Yeah, I loved “jumped into the jungle” and a lot of them. So because of the topic we're on today, maybe we could start by you just telling us a little bit about Blue Alliance's model. Help our listeners understand that, help managers think about how to, assess strategies to, to finance their MPAs.
00;06;21;00 - 00;06;44;26
Maybe just tell us a little bit about the model that you're currently working with on the kind of the finance side of Blue Alliance. So our, our model and I guess before I get there, I need to speak about the expertise that's required. I couldn't have developed this model. So our CEO Nicholas Haskell is an economist and he's also a marine biologist.
00;06;44;26 - 00;07;11;08
And I think it takes someone who has a leg in both these areas to be able to come up with a strategy like, what has been developed for Blue Alliance? So the thing with us is that we are an NGO. We are a nonprofit NGO, and we co-manage now it's 110 marine protected areas in Indonesia, Philippines and Zanzibar.
00;07;11;11 - 00;07;37;20
But our thing is that we don't only want to manage, we want to bring the money. So that whole headache of running after and going down and then it's rabbit holes for grants, you know, doesn't impact our management ability. So the what has been, developed blue finance is yes, we're a nonprofit NGO, but we own for profit businesses.
00;07;37;23 - 00;08;03;09
And the idea in a nutshell is that those for-profit businesses, which are all reef positive businesses, that they will start generating revenues, which will then feed back into NPA management and, conservation. So at the moment, we still rely on grant funding. And the grant funding at the moment is to power up the the marine protected areas.
00;08;03;12 - 00;08;35;16
Exactly what I said we're trying to get away from, that is a situation now and then we also are relying on not relying on we've gone after, impact investments. And this money at the moment is going into those three positive businesses. And the idea is that, of course, these positive businesses will generate revenue and some of that revenue or the majority of that revenue will then go back into marine conservation.
00;08;35;16 - 00;09;05;22
Of course, we have to pay interest on these impacts. Loans, they're loans. They're not grants. Right. So you'd have to repay that. But we are anticipating that they will be adequate income generated that will head back into marine conservation. So just help me understand. Right now, you're in the space where the, Blue Alliance is providing loans to these reef positive businesses, and that's kind of the phase that the whole program is in right now.
00;09;05;24 - 00;09;30;16
No. Definitely not. And so, sorry if in doubt, loud and clear. And this is why we changed our name from Blue Finance to Blue Alliance. We don't provide money. We don't provide loans. We're not a banking institution. We are the NGO that is doing the co-management. We go for grants like everyone else, and we also go for impact investments, which perhaps is not like everyone else.
00;09;30;18 - 00;09;55;25
So we have to go to different institutions for these loans. So for example, we have a loan with BNP Paribas, we have a loan with UBS for example. So we we go to impact investors. And you need to be able to speak their language. Again I couldn't do it. We need to be able to speak their language. They have lots of requirements and restrictions because again it's a loan.
00;09;55;25 - 00;10;17;22
It's not a grant. So you can't ride off into the sunset and not repay it. Right. It's very, very patient finance. And no, I mean it's not like you know, it's not like I would say a regular business. No one is expecting to get rich out of marine protected areas. Right. But they are loans. They do need to be paid to end.
00;10;17;22 - 00;10;44;04
There's a lot of drama involved with making sure all your eyes are dotted and your t's are crossed. I'm sure it takes a large team to well skilled team. Very team. Okay. Thanks. That's clear to me. Now could you just to help, you know, help us visualize this and bring it to life a little bit more. Can you give us some examples or maybe one example of a reef positive business?
00;10;44;07 - 00;11;09;18
Yeah, sure. So I mean, I think we put a new term on every positive business, but I think these have been around for a while. Right. So I'll give you two. We have a eco tourism business called Blue Wild. And Blue Wild is operational now in Zanzibar, Philippines. They provide, I guess you could call it bespoke tours.
00;11;09;18 - 00;11;31;25
So the idea is that you have a few people, mainly two people to one dive master, and we provide these two really intensive. It's not it's not the right word. Comprehensive dives where your guide. So one you don't have a whole bunch of people. You know, it's just a few of you and your guides are providing these coral reef safaris.
00;11;31;25 - 00;12;06;25
So really going a bit deeper into what you're seeing, what those interactions are, how it relates to management of marine spaces and so on. So really providing these, you know, high level dives, high level tours full of information. So that's one. And then in Zanzibar we're also piloting a fishery supply chain. It's called Somali blue. So the fish mainly tuna is being sustainably fished and traditional downs.
00;12;06;28 - 00;12;30;28
The fishers have undergone extensive training and fishing techniques. There's also been a lot of training. And after once a fish has been caught, how they're stored, how they are going, how they're prepared, etc. and then the sale so that fisheries supply chain is at the moment. And so it's a bar if I might jump in to, I'm kind of curious about.
00;12;30;28 - 00;12;56;02
So from the perspective of like the MPA managers, where I sort of find myself triangulating something between these reef positive businesses, Blue Alliance and then the MPAs themselves and then also the investors. So I'm just kind of curious, like, are the managers helping prepare the pitches for investors, or is it, you know, how does the revenue ultimately flow back to the protected area?
00;12;56;05 - 00;13;23;02
So no, the MPA managers are not involved in developing pitches or anything along those lines. However, the staff at the MPAs campaign manager is management science teams, but we also our community based teams as well. They're very much involved in on the ground work for these three positive businesses. So it makes sense to cite the reports of the businesses in and around marine protected areas.
00;13;23;02 - 00;13;48;15
Right. Because this is these are areas that have been legally designated, but these are areas that we already enforce. And these are areas that our teams know extremely well. So enforcement again is something that that is important. Our science teams are very heavily involved in siting. So where do you site first of all where do you find the sea cucumbers.
00;13;48;15 - 00;14;15;29
Where should they be farmed? What are the areas in which it makes sense to do this? Because the water is good quality, etc.. So our MPA staff, not just the managers, but our MP's staff are involved, many different levels also to businesses. But the repository businesses are separate entities, right? They're separate businesses. So they also have their own staff and they interact with the MP's staff as well.
00;14;16;01 - 00;14;51;07
So I mentioned that Blue Alliance is a nonprofit NGO, but we're a nonprofit NGO that owns these businesses, so they belong to Blue Alliance. So when the revenue is generated from these businesses, it flows back into blue. And I taking a step back a little bit more broadly and reflecting back on your start as a marine manager working with Government of Barbados, can you share, maybe one major lesson that you've learned related to financing MPAs and coral conservation efforts?
00;14;51;07 - 00;15;22;26
Just like as a takeaway for managers. So I think one lesson is perhaps to stop, stop and think and explore different horizons, you know, explore different things. And I say that because when this idea was first presented to me when I was working for the government of Barbados, I was like, hell no, that's never going to work. We're, you know, we're accustomed getting government subventions we or custom getting grants or whatever.
00;15;22;28 - 00;16;04;09
The whole idea of bringing investment of any kind into conservation, to me was like a huge, huge no, no. And it took a great expansion of my head to even, you know, to even tolerate the idea at that point in time. So it actually does take a bit of a sea change. So I think for, for NPA managers and people involved in conservation, before you say no, automatically, give it a chance, learn a little bit about it, learn a little bit about impact investments in blended finance, and understand that we have to change the way that we're doing things, and this is a potential way of doing it.
00;16;04;11 - 00;16;24;22
Great. Thank you. I actually think that's a really great note to end on, because that's really one of the things that we've been finding as we've built the NPA finance toolkit that we now have on reef resilience. Dot org, is, you know, it's there's a lot of complexity involved and there's a lot of different kinds of expertise that are often well, well beyond the reach of most of us, most managers.
00;16;24;22 - 00;16;45;27
I've been I don't mean to speak for everybody, but I, you know, as we've heard from from Angie and Christine and myself to hear like, you know, it's it is a lot to wrap one's head around. And I think that, that complexity can't be the roadblock, really. Right. Because, as Angie just mentioned, by the way, things have been running, it's just the funding is just insufficient.
00;16;45;27 - 00;17;08;09
And it's worth the effort to find these new ways forward, because I think that ultimately gets us to the goal of truly, sustainably and resiliently protecting these, these areas, but also the communities and economies and everything else that depends on them. So, Angie, thank you so much again for joining us. Christine. It's great to have you here as well.
00;17;08;09 - 00;17;34;22
I really enjoyed this conversation and hopefully, all of you that have listened to this got a lot out of it too. You'll be able to find show notes and other episodes on our website. Again, that's reef resilience dot org. And like Angie mentioned, there's a ton of resources up there webinars, toolkits, online courses, and more. And in particular, please be sure to visit our MPA Finance toolkit that was also developed in partnership with the Blue Nature Alliance.
00;17;34;25 - 00;18;09;16
UnknownAnd if you aren't already a number, please do, join the network where you'll be able to receive notifications of new resources and participate in things like mentoring courses and again, live webinars. Even after 20 years, we're still hard at work. To provide you with all the latest and greatest science and strategies for reef resilience. So thank you all once again, and we'll see you next time.
Hello I'm Henry Borrebach, host of Reef Exchanges, the podcast brought to you by the Reef Resilience Network. For 20 years, the network has been a global leader in training marine managers and other practitioners to effectively manage, protect and restore coral reefs. We do this by turning scientific information and in the water experience into operational knowledge, tools and guidance to help those who are tasked with caring for the world's reefs.
00;00;28;03 - 00;00;50;22
This podcast is one of the methods we use to bring the latest science and strategies to marine managers to support effective management of critical coastal areas. 2025 marks the network's 20th anniversary, which we're really excited about, so we just want to thank and celebrate you, our network members and our listeners, all of the people that have worked for and with the network over the years.
00;00;50;24 - 00;01;12;20
I've only been here a couple years myself. So to take an old phrase, I feel that I'm, you know, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here as we continue our work moving into our, next decade of operations. So, again, thank you all so much for your time and expertise and ideas and of course, the hard and important work that you do day in and day out to care for our world's reefs and marine areas. But without any further ado, let's dive on in.
00;01;29;18 - 00;01;55;16
On this episode, I will be joined by my colleague Kristin Maize, Reef Resilience Network lead and doctor Angie Brathwaite, director of conservation and science at Blue Alliance, an organization that builds and manages marine protected areas through conservation financing. Not to be confused with the Blue Nature Alliance, our partner in helping to increase capacity and knowledge exchange around critical topics for marine resource management across the globe. With that, I'll go ahead and hand it off to Kristen. Tell us more about what we'll be discussing today.
00;02;02;26 - 00;02;26;17
Thanks, Henry. And hi, everybody. And our work to develop the NPA Finance Toolkit. I recently got a crash course in marine finance, and I have to admit, my head is still totally spinning from different finance mechanisms and terminology. But through that work, what is really clear to me is the reason why protected area finance is such an important topic.
00;02;26;19 - 00;02;58;18
According to recent research, almost two thirds of MPAs around the world report having insufficient budget to effectively manage or enforce their Cites. And historically, funding for MPAs has come primarily from government allocations, development assistance and philanthropy. Of course, there are many other funding streams, but these are, the top three through global initiatives like 30 by 30, governments are making more commitments than ever to protect our coasts and our waters, which is wonderful.
00;02;58;25 - 00;03;20;11
But with more or expanded protections, of course, comes a greater need for funding to ensure protected areas are well managed or effective. This is why we're talking about marine finance today. Our network members have asked for help exploring financing options that are going to be the best fit for them and their sites. Which is why I'm so excited for today's conversation.
00;03;20;11 - 00;03;45;00
Angie, before we get too far in, could you introduce yourself to our listeners? Maybe share a little bit about your journey from working as a marine manager to now providing finance expertise all over the world? And in honor of our 20 at the anniversary, as Henry mentioned. Could you also share a little bit about how you've engaged with the network over the years?
00;03;45;02 - 00;04;08;03
Hi. Thanks for having me. Okay, so there's a lot and I just wanted to say I'm not an economist by any stretch, so marine ecologist and my head spans with a bit of the finance as well. But, yeah, I, I'm you're not alone, but I do have to work with it. And I'm happy to share what I know with everyone.
00;04;08;06 - 00;04;35;18
So as you mentioned, I am a marine ecologist. I work with Blue Alliance as their director of science and conservation. My primary role is really to direct marine programs. But I think as many people know, the alliance is a bit different from other NGOs. And we try to help me so to, to perspectives on the sustainable financing.
00;04;35;18 - 00;05;08;15
And the other one is improving effective management. So I started as a marine biologist or coastal cell management unit in Barbados. So I had that department for around 18 years. Along the way, jumped into the jungle and now with some marine expeditions. And so I did a lot with volunteers, I did a lot with the government, and I worked a lot with the private sector as well.
00;05;08;18 - 00;05;35;11
My journey. I think I can start there with my journey. I started, I think, interacting with reef resilience. I, I feel like it's almost 20 years ago, actually. Edmonds and again, I did a writing workshop with you 12 out 15 years ago. It was a really good experience and an introduction to writing scientific papers.
00;05;35;11 - 00;05;58;14
It was quite an eye opener. And now, I find I use the network quite often, but online it's there's just so much information floating around about so many things. And it's really good to come to one, one place and have such an array of information. And of course, the webinars are excellent. As well. Okay. Thanks, Angie.
00;05;58;16 - 00;06;21;00
And thanks for sharing about your journey. Yeah, I loved “jumped into the jungle” and a lot of them. So because of the topic we're on today, maybe we could start by you just telling us a little bit about Blue Alliance's model. Help our listeners understand that, help managers think about how to, assess strategies to, to finance their MPAs.
00;06;21;00 - 00;06;44;26
Maybe just tell us a little bit about the model that you're currently working with on the kind of the finance side of Blue Alliance. So our, our model and I guess before I get there, I need to speak about the expertise that's required. I couldn't have developed this model. So our CEO Nicholas Haskell is an economist and he's also a marine biologist.
00;06;44;26 - 00;07;11;08
And I think it takes someone who has a leg in both these areas to be able to come up with a strategy like, what has been developed for Blue Alliance? So the thing with us is that we are an NGO. We are a nonprofit NGO, and we co-manage now it's 110 marine protected areas in Indonesia, Philippines and Zanzibar.
00;07;11;11 - 00;07;37;20
But our thing is that we don't only want to manage, we want to bring the money. So that whole headache of running after and going down and then it's rabbit holes for grants, you know, doesn't impact our management ability. So the what has been, developed blue finance is yes, we're a nonprofit NGO, but we own for profit businesses.
00;07;37;23 - 00;08;03;09
And the idea in a nutshell is that those for-profit businesses, which are all reef positive businesses, that they will start generating revenues, which will then feed back into NPA management and, conservation. So at the moment, we still rely on grant funding. And the grant funding at the moment is to power up the the marine protected areas.
00;08;03;12 - 00;08;35;16
Exactly what I said we're trying to get away from, that is a situation now and then we also are relying on not relying on we've gone after, impact investments. And this money at the moment is going into those three positive businesses. And the idea is that, of course, these positive businesses will generate revenue and some of that revenue or the majority of that revenue will then go back into marine conservation.
00;08;35;16 - 00;09;05;22
Of course, we have to pay interest on these impacts. Loans, they're loans. They're not grants. Right. So you'd have to repay that. But we are anticipating that they will be adequate income generated that will head back into marine conservation. So just help me understand. Right now, you're in the space where the, Blue Alliance is providing loans to these reef positive businesses, and that's kind of the phase that the whole program is in right now.
00;09;05;24 - 00;09;30;16
No. Definitely not. And so, sorry if in doubt, loud and clear. And this is why we changed our name from Blue Finance to Blue Alliance. We don't provide money. We don't provide loans. We're not a banking institution. We are the NGO that is doing the co-management. We go for grants like everyone else, and we also go for impact investments, which perhaps is not like everyone else.
00;09;30;18 - 00;09;55;25
So we have to go to different institutions for these loans. So for example, we have a loan with BNP Paribas, we have a loan with UBS for example. So we we go to impact investors. And you need to be able to speak their language. Again I couldn't do it. We need to be able to speak their language. They have lots of requirements and restrictions because again it's a loan.
00;09;55;25 - 00;10;17;22
It's not a grant. So you can't ride off into the sunset and not repay it. Right. It's very, very patient finance. And no, I mean it's not like you know, it's not like I would say a regular business. No one is expecting to get rich out of marine protected areas. Right. But they are loans. They do need to be paid to end.
00;10;17;22 - 00;10;44;04
There's a lot of drama involved with making sure all your eyes are dotted and your t's are crossed. I'm sure it takes a large team to well skilled team. Very team. Okay. Thanks. That's clear to me. Now could you just to help, you know, help us visualize this and bring it to life a little bit more. Can you give us some examples or maybe one example of a reef positive business?
00;10;44;07 - 00;11;09;18
Yeah, sure. So I mean, I think we put a new term on every positive business, but I think these have been around for a while. Right. So I'll give you two. We have a eco tourism business called Blue Wild. And Blue Wild is operational now in Zanzibar, Philippines. They provide, I guess you could call it bespoke tours.
00;11;09;18 - 00;11;31;25
So the idea is that you have a few people, mainly two people to one dive master, and we provide these two really intensive. It's not it's not the right word. Comprehensive dives where your guide. So one you don't have a whole bunch of people. You know, it's just a few of you and your guides are providing these coral reef safaris.
00;11;31;25 - 00;12;06;25
So really going a bit deeper into what you're seeing, what those interactions are, how it relates to management of marine spaces and so on. So really providing these, you know, high level dives, high level tours full of information. So that's one. And then in Zanzibar we're also piloting a fishery supply chain. It's called Somali blue. So the fish mainly tuna is being sustainably fished and traditional downs.
00;12;06;28 - 00;12;30;28
The fishers have undergone extensive training and fishing techniques. There's also been a lot of training. And after once a fish has been caught, how they're stored, how they are going, how they're prepared, etc. and then the sale so that fisheries supply chain is at the moment. And so it's a bar if I might jump in to, I'm kind of curious about.
00;12;30;28 - 00;12;56;02
So from the perspective of like the MPA managers, where I sort of find myself triangulating something between these reef positive businesses, Blue Alliance and then the MPAs themselves and then also the investors. So I'm just kind of curious, like, are the managers helping prepare the pitches for investors, or is it, you know, how does the revenue ultimately flow back to the protected area?
00;12;56;05 - 00;13;23;02
So no, the MPA managers are not involved in developing pitches or anything along those lines. However, the staff at the MPAs campaign manager is management science teams, but we also our community based teams as well. They're very much involved in on the ground work for these three positive businesses. So it makes sense to cite the reports of the businesses in and around marine protected areas.
00;13;23;02 - 00;13;48;15
Right. Because this is these are areas that have been legally designated, but these are areas that we already enforce. And these are areas that our teams know extremely well. So enforcement again is something that that is important. Our science teams are very heavily involved in siting. So where do you site first of all where do you find the sea cucumbers.
00;13;48;15 - 00;14;15;29
Where should they be farmed? What are the areas in which it makes sense to do this? Because the water is good quality, etc.. So our MPA staff, not just the managers, but our MP's staff are involved, many different levels also to businesses. But the repository businesses are separate entities, right? They're separate businesses. So they also have their own staff and they interact with the MP's staff as well.
00;14;16;01 - 00;14;51;07
So I mentioned that Blue Alliance is a nonprofit NGO, but we're a nonprofit NGO that owns these businesses, so they belong to Blue Alliance. So when the revenue is generated from these businesses, it flows back into blue. And I taking a step back a little bit more broadly and reflecting back on your start as a marine manager working with Government of Barbados, can you share, maybe one major lesson that you've learned related to financing MPAs and coral conservation efforts?
00;14;51;07 - 00;15;22;26
Just like as a takeaway for managers. So I think one lesson is perhaps to stop, stop and think and explore different horizons, you know, explore different things. And I say that because when this idea was first presented to me when I was working for the government of Barbados, I was like, hell no, that's never going to work. We're, you know, we're accustomed getting government subventions we or custom getting grants or whatever.
00;15;22;28 - 00;16;04;09
The whole idea of bringing investment of any kind into conservation, to me was like a huge, huge no, no. And it took a great expansion of my head to even, you know, to even tolerate the idea at that point in time. So it actually does take a bit of a sea change. So I think for, for NPA managers and people involved in conservation, before you say no, automatically, give it a chance, learn a little bit about it, learn a little bit about impact investments in blended finance, and understand that we have to change the way that we're doing things, and this is a potential way of doing it.
00;16;04;11 - 00;16;24;22
Great. Thank you. I actually think that's a really great note to end on, because that's really one of the things that we've been finding as we've built the NPA finance toolkit that we now have on reef resilience. Dot org, is, you know, it's there's a lot of complexity involved and there's a lot of different kinds of expertise that are often well, well beyond the reach of most of us, most managers.
00;16;24;22 - 00;16;45;27
I've been I don't mean to speak for everybody, but I, you know, as we've heard from from Angie and Christine and myself to hear like, you know, it's it is a lot to wrap one's head around. And I think that, that complexity can't be the roadblock, really. Right. Because, as Angie just mentioned, by the way, things have been running, it's just the funding is just insufficient.
00;16;45;27 - 00;17;08;09
And it's worth the effort to find these new ways forward, because I think that ultimately gets us to the goal of truly, sustainably and resiliently protecting these, these areas, but also the communities and economies and everything else that depends on them. So, Angie, thank you so much again for joining us. Christine. It's great to have you here as well.
00;17;08;09 - 00;17;34;22
I really enjoyed this conversation and hopefully, all of you that have listened to this got a lot out of it too. You'll be able to find show notes and other episodes on our website. Again, that's reef resilience dot org. And like Angie mentioned, there's a ton of resources up there webinars, toolkits, online courses, and more. And in particular, please be sure to visit our MPA Finance toolkit that was also developed in partnership with the Blue Nature Alliance.
00;17;34;25 - 00;18;09;16
UnknownAnd if you aren't already a number, please do, join the network where you'll be able to receive notifications of new resources and participate in things like mentoring courses and again, live webinars. Even after 20 years, we're still hard at work. To provide you with all the latest and greatest science and strategies for reef resilience. So thank you all once again, and we'll see you next time.
