WEBVTT
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Hello there, Practically Magic, magical witches
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and wizards. Welcome back. We are on season four.
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Can you believe that? We've been recording three
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seasons, now four seasons of Practically Magic.
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Amazing. I can't wait for you to see what we
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have in store this season. So many fun new topics
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and hopefully some really magical guests that
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I'm getting on. Today we are going to watch an
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episode of Make Me a Believer. I was a guest
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on their podcast recently. We talked about tarot.
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So they like to take some maybe controversial
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or a little bit divisive subjects like tarot,
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is it insight or illusion? Is it evil or is it
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healing? You know, and see what an expert on
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the subject has to say. And I have to say the
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conversation with Liz and Tim on Make Me a Believer
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was one of my favorite episodes ever recorded
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of anything I've ever done. It was so fun to
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talk to them. And I loved their questions. They
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were great at asking the really hard questions,
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digging in deep and challenging my knowledge,
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but at the same time they were very respectful.
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They knew that this was my profession and they
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treated me like a professional. And I love that.
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I love that because I love when people are curious
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and want to know and are willing to ask and also
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know that this is something that you, myself,
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takes very seriously. So we talked a little bit
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about the magic, the self -discovery, how to
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spot a fraud, the mystical tools other than tarot
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that we use and could use, the science behind
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manifestation, and why I call all of it witchcraft,
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even if other people would have a problem with
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that word. It's all witchcraft, honey. Okay,
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so my favorite part of this episode. is the unhinged
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questions listed to her. Did her due diligence
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with research and looked on Reddit for some of
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the most unhinged terrible questions that she
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could find, and they were fantastic to answer.
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A lot of them were yes and no, and then I had
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to explain. You guys know me. I'm not one for
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short answers. I can't just give a yes or a no
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or a true or a false. So we tried, we tried,
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but it's kind of a long one. So without further
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ado, this is the episode on Make Me a Believer,
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the pod collaboration with Make Me a Believer
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and Practically Magic. Your ex's name continually
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popping up might not just be a coincidence. That
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weird feeling you had last Tuesday. Maybe that
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was an anxiety. Maybe the universe has receipts.
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Today we're asking, can a deck of cards actually
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reveal your future, your patterns, and the things
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you're desperately trying not to see? Love it,
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hate it, or think it's complete nonsense. Tarot
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has survived centuries of skepticism, criticism,
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and controversy. Why do people keep coming back
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to these cards when they're searching for answers?
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We're exploring the psychology, the mystery,
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and the chaos behind tarot. Let's get into it.
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Welcome to Make Me a Believer, the podcast where
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no topic is off limits and no opinion goes unchallenged.
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For each of our episodes, we'll be taking on
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a big idea, issue, or a debate, and then we'll
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explore it from different sides. We'll bring
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the facts, the arguments, and maybe a little
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bit of fire. But at the end of the day, it's
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not about who's louder. It's about you deciding.
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What do you believe in? Because if you stand
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for nothing, what will you fall for? So welcome
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back to the podcast listeners. Today we have
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a very awesome guest joining us. She is a practicing
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witch with a passion for tarot and helping people
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connect with their intuition. We're going to
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dive into the fascinating world of tarot cards,
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explore what they can teach us, and clear up
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some common misconceptions along the way. Please
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join us in welcoming our guest Courtney to the
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show. Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to
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be here. Yeah, we are so happy to have you. Absolutely.
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Courtney, for all of our listeners, can you introduce
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yourself and very briefly tell us what you believe?
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and what it is you do? Yes, I am a practicing
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witch. However, a lot of people jump straight
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to Wicca as the definition of witch. So they're
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like, oh, you're Wiccan. No, I'm not actually
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Wiccan. There are plenty of people who practice
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Wicca as witchcraft, but I myself am just a pagan
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Celtic witch. So I do a lot of research in Celtic
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mythology, magic, and healing work. actually,
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more than anything. I do a lot of energy healing
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work with reiki, honey, energy healing. So tarot
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is part of a healing practice for me. And that's
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how I got started doing it is it's just a really
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great tool to use for clarification sometimes
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and to kind of dip your toe into answering some
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questions that my clients might have. So I offer
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it. as an option. And there's a lot of different
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ways to practice witchcraft. So everything that
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I say today is kind of gospel according to Courtney,
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but I believe a lot of it really depends on the
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person and their intention behind what they do
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and what their practice is. And my belief system
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is basically everybody's a witch. They just don't
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know it yet. A bold statement. I love it. A bold
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statement. I'm coming right at you. Right? When
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we chatted originally about having you on the
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show, I was so fascinated because you were like,
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I am this. And forgive me, I don't remember the
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title you gave yourself, but I was like, holy
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cow, what does this mean? What does she do? I
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remember the word priestess. Yeah. Fill us in.
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What are your official titles? And can you define
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those for us, for those of us like me who have
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no idea what we're talking about? We're ignorant.
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And the list of titles could go on forever because
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there is no degree that I know of that you can
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get. claiming the title of priestess took me
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some time because I felt that it was something
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that I took very seriously and didn't want to
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just jump into this world and say, well, I'm
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a priestess. But I do also think that it is a
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title that implies service rather than a hierarchy
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of authority of some kind. to go through certain
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initiation processes where I felt these were
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the things I needed to do, taking a priestess
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course with someone I felt was reputable and
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not just selling you an online course on the
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internet. But just going through those processes,
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I traveled and did a sacred sites pilgrimage
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in England where I went to Glastonbury and Cornwall
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and Wales and of course did a sunrise ceremony
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at Stonehenge. There were certain things that
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I felt were in my process of becoming a priestess.
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I call myself Celtic priestess because I apply
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a lot of the Celtic mythology and culture and
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things to what I do. Abalonian priestess is another
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term more specifically. But there's also the
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title of witch, which I believe is, again, everybody
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is a little bit of a witch. It just means someone
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who's in control of what they're doing and in
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their practice. But my favorite is the Welsh
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term swinrig. That might've been the one I used.
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I can't remember. I say a lot of things. Swinreig
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is just kind of that cunning woman or either
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the person that has some wisdom and knowledge,
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maybe ancestral, that can apply to healing and
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helping people. So I like those terms a little
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bit better than healer. I do energy healing work,
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but I facilitate healing, meaning that I empower
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people in their work in and of themselves or
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inner work. But to say the healer is my idea.
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You don't necessarily do it yourself. That makes
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sense. Okay, so I do want to take a step back
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and kind of define a couple things for our listeners.
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As far as tarot, witch... We kind of defined
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what a witch is. Yeah, we kind of defined what
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a witch is. And you as a healer, I also thought
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about Aragon and like the healers that are literally
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healing people. It's not that, it's helping people...
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find the power in themselves to heal. Right.
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Yeah. And I use the definition, so this is not
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mine. A guest speaker I had one time, she used
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this term and I've repeated it many times. Healing
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is not fixing. It's not fixing something that's
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broken. It means witnessing. So in doing healing
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work, you're not looking inward or looking at
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yourself. And by the way, this can be both emotional
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and physical healing, but it's witnessing what
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is happening, what's going on, and what are all
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the connections to your energy, your emotions,
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your ancestral work. I mean, inner child work.
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We could go on and on and on, but it's witnessing
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that, right? Right. I love that. So you talk
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about healing a lot in regards to tarot. So does
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it have anything to do with the more common perception
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that people have out there as far as does it
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have anything to do with fortune telling or predicting
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the future? Or is it mostly just helping people
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think differently? about their past or their
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present, and like you said, kind of helping them
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with their healing process. I think it's a little
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bit of both, but when it comes to fortune telling,
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I shy away from that term a little bit more because
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it gives people different connotation of what
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they're coming into. And a lot of really credible
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readers, like I hope that I am, if I can put
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myself in that category, I often tell people
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in every possible way that I can is if you're
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going to a reader and they're like, I'm a fortune
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teller, I, you know, kind of treating it almost
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as a party trick. That can be a red flag, I think.
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So when someone has said to me like, Oh, Courtney
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is a fortune teller. I go, I'm a tarot reader
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and there is some fortune reading in that, but
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even the way that I do it is more so healing,
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right? But I tell people like shy away from people
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that are using the cards or reading the cards
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to tell you how you should live your life. If
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it's shooting all over you, it probably isn't
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going to be. higher vibrational frequency. It
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isn't going to be aligned with what you need.
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And a lot of people are looking for that. So
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desperately, it's almost taking advantage, right?
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Because somebody might be sitting down at your
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table going, should I take this job or that job?
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Should I stay with my husband or not? Should
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I? And you're just like, that's not my job. It's
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not my job or the cards to tell you those things.
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So you're not a lucky eight ball? I know, right?
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You might as well actually use the magic eight
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ball instead of... Well, we'll never call you
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fortune teller. Don't worry. Right. But I was
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going to say there is something called the Orleg
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and the Vird in the Nordic mythology, which is
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the idea that you are handed cards as your fate
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or your destiny, right? You can't change them.
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They're the cards you are given. But the Vird
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is how you play the cards can be very different.
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And there's an infinite combinations of something
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that you could play. So there is something...
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fate and destiny about it. And the cards might
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tell you what's coming up. What do you need to
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know about what's coming up? But that doesn't
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mean this is going to happen to you and this
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is the way it is. It might be like, this is going
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to give you some choice on how you choose to
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handle it. Right? Yeah, that totally makes sense.
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So in our immense preparation for this episode,
00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.320
because again, we are so, I don't know. I grew
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up in South Georgia. I could not wear, I remember
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getting in trouble. I vividly remember it was
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the only time in elementary school that I ever
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got in the principal's office and was in trouble.
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Uh huh. I'm sure you were there every week. Oh
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my, no. I got sent to the principal's office
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and had to call my grandmother to pick me up
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and take me to change clothes because I wore
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a Scooby Doo shirt to school. And they said Scooby
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-Doo was witchcraft. So I could not have a Scooby
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-Doo shirt. And I was like that weirdo kid who's
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like Scooby -Doo 24 -7. That's what I wanted.
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And I mean, I did not read the Harry Potter books
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until I was a grown adult. Meaning like two years
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ago. Not even like a year ago is when you started
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reading them to me because I was pregnant. Do
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you consider yourself a grown adult? No, not
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really, but you get what I'm saying. I had not
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seen the movies, I had not read the books, anything
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growing up as a kid. And now I'm like, oh my
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gosh, I'm such a Potterhead. It was almost a
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deal breaker when I first met her. Yeah. What
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listeners can't see is that Tim has a full sleeve,
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one arm, like, wrist, bones to shoulder, and
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it's all Harry Potter. So, like, the man is obsessed.
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But no faces. I hate... I don't like big tattoos.
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Yeah, he doesn't have any face. It's actually
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a really, really awesome tattoo. But he is a
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total, like, Harry Potter. And I know it's not
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the same witch. I'm kind of going off on a tangent
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here. But Witchcraft was such a don't ask, don't
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tell, don't acknowledge it. You are a horrible
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person for even thinking about it type of thing
00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.279
when I was growing up So for me, I never had
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that exposure as an adult. I've had a lot more
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like energy healing and like hypnotherapy stuff
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and things like that, but still not a ton of
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Exposure to witchcraft. And so when you introduced
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yourself when we're talking about being on the
00:13:49.700 --> 00:13:51.799
show, I was like, oh, this is cool. So then I
00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:53.840
went and listened to several episodes of your
00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:56.059
podcast, and I meant to mention that earlier.
00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.919
It's Practically Magic, correct? Practically
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.559
Magic. Yep. Practical Magic is one of my favorite
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.720
movies. So it was a nod to that, but also trying
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.519
to show that things that we considered everyday,
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.980
natural, normal things are Practically Magic.
00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.080
Yeah. Witchcraft in general is just a topic that
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.909
was never even in my purview. And Tim, I feel
00:14:16.909 --> 00:14:19.389
like growing up in Utah, very similar situation.
00:14:19.750 --> 00:14:22.889
Yes, you see the like magical happiness of Harry
00:14:22.889 --> 00:14:25.470
Potter and things like that. But you're not exposed
00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:27.990
in Utah culture. And I feel like in Utah, it's
00:14:27.990 --> 00:14:30.590
very unique. That's why I say Utah. You're not
00:14:30.590 --> 00:14:33.909
exposed to this very often. And so we did a ton
00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:35.950
of research. So I don't know what any of these
00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:38.830
things are. And I've talked a lot now. So sorry
00:14:38.830 --> 00:14:42.070
for the like 15 minute backstory on why I'm asking
00:14:42.070 --> 00:14:46.039
this question. But can you tell us and kind of
00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.899
explain for the listeners, can you differentiate
00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:54.159
tarot and oracle cards, astrology, psychic readings?
00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:56.840
All those different things. All of those mediumship.
00:14:57.019 --> 00:14:58.940
Yeah, all of these different things. Tell us
00:14:58.940 --> 00:15:01.600
about that. Oh, my goodness. Oh, yes. So many
00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.179
things. Well, I'll try to bundle it and be brief.
00:15:04.460 --> 00:15:07.179
And astrology, I am only just dipping my toe
00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:10.120
into. I mean, it's the whole language, like really
00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:12.179
to dive in deep into it. But if you kind of know
00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:14.059
a little bit and you know your sun, your moon,
00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:16.200
and your rising sign, you can really tell a lot
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.960
about yourself just in that. And so yeah, the
00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.720
tarot, a lot of people have associated a lot
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.940
of astrology to it. Like certain cards have a
00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:28.000
sign or a planet associated with it. So that's
00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:31.860
integrated into part of the reading. I haven't
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:34.480
done them myself, but I have had a reading where
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:38.080
someone did a full astrology like your year looking
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:41.779
ahead as an astrology spread, pulling cards for
00:15:41.779 --> 00:15:45.519
each phase of the next year. There is a lot of
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.179
integration, threads in all directions with that.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.820
But to give you a basic getting started with
00:15:52.820 --> 00:15:56.029
reading cards and divination, Oracle decks, I
00:15:56.029 --> 00:15:59.029
kind of think of as the gateway because Oracle
00:15:59.029 --> 00:16:00.970
cards, you can pick up a deck of Oracle cards
00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:03.529
just about any metaphysical shop or anywhere
00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:08.009
that you find them. And they are simply a deck
00:16:08.009 --> 00:16:11.110
of cards, whatever number, each card representing
00:16:11.110 --> 00:16:13.590
a different thing. And it usually has a guidebook.
00:16:13.730 --> 00:16:16.210
So it can be whatever the writer or illustrator
00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:18.620
of the deck. chose to have each card have its
00:16:18.620 --> 00:16:21.360
own meaning. Sometimes there's words or phrases
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.620
on the card itself. I mean, there are themes
00:16:24.620 --> 00:16:27.299
out there, like infinite number of Oracle card
00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:29.480
themes you can get. So it can be associated with
00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.259
the moon cycles. It can be just about anything.
00:16:32.419 --> 00:16:34.779
So are these almost like the gift somebody sent
00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:37.059
me? It was funny. She was on vacation. She's
00:16:37.059 --> 00:16:38.620
like, I found this thing when I was shopping
00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:40.039
and I thought of you. And it's like a little
00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.220
deck of cards. a bunch of explicit words, but
00:16:43.220 --> 00:16:45.860
it's basically like my beep beep beep beep beep
00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:47.960
deck of affirmations or something like that.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.019
And it's all like, you're great because blah,
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.159
blah, blah. And you like are supposed to pull
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.120
a card every day and then read the guidebook
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:56.899
and everything else that goes with it. would
00:16:56.899 --> 00:16:59.220
that be an Oracle card? Okay. That could be,
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.120
I mean, and that's just as basic, you know, you're
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.480
going to get a good feeling from whatever card
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:06.599
you pull that day. And that's what it's for,
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.940
right? It's an affirmation for today, but it
00:17:08.940 --> 00:17:11.539
also could, that's exactly how you use an Oracle
00:17:11.539 --> 00:17:14.779
deck as well. So it's the same thing. In fact,
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:16.900
one of the ways that I teach intuition, when
00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:18.880
I'm just starting out with someone and I'm like,
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:20.539
you just want to kind of develop your intuition
00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:25.480
and reading cards. I pull a deck of Dixit cards
00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:28.160
from the board game Dixit. It's a storytelling
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.579
game. It does not have a guidebook because it's
00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:32.539
not an oracle deck. Don't we have this board
00:17:32.539 --> 00:17:35.000
game? What is it called? Dixit, like D -I -X
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.380
-I -T. I think we have it. I got it for you for
00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:39.859
Christmas. I don't know. And they're really like.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.039
fun, artistic, weird -looking pictures in it.
00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:47.440
This one is a guy walking across a piano with
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:49.119
different pictures on it. This is actually the
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:51.200
Disney Dixit, so this is from the movie Soul.
00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:54.660
I bought the Disney one because this is my favorite
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.819
one to read from. But it's just kind of a little
00:17:56.819 --> 00:18:00.619
bit weird and odd, like a giant ant eating pancakes
00:18:00.619 --> 00:18:03.140
or something on it or something like that. I
00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:04.880
tell people there's no guidebook that goes with
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.420
these. So it literally is just whatever you pull,
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:12.200
what feeling or message or what do you feel like
00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.059
it's bringing for you today? And that is right.
00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:17.819
It's correct. Whatever it is, is what it's meant
00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:20.160
to be. So Oracle decks are really great for people
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.039
just starting out who don't really have the time
00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.619
or want to study. They just want to pull a card
00:18:24.619 --> 00:18:27.440
and get a meaning from it that day. And your
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.119
question might be, how's my day going to go today?
00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:32.039
Or what do I need to focus on today? Or whatever
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.099
it is, and then you assert some meaning from
00:18:34.099 --> 00:18:37.640
it. I actually think that your own meaning before
00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.079
you even read the guidebook is more powerful
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.980
and more important than the guidebook. So I often
00:18:42.980 --> 00:18:44.920
recommend, yeah, use the guidebook if you're
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.359
learning and you want to know what the author
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.839
wanted that card to mean. But eventually, I suggest
00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.039
you just throw out the guidebook altogether or
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.180
put it away because your meaning matters more
00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:58.440
and to do it that way. I would cheat and I'd
00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:01.000
always want to turn it into something way better
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.319
than what it actually is and being honest. Well,
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.339
why not? That's a perfect way to do it, right?
00:19:06.579 --> 00:19:09.559
Don't you want your day to go well? I also feel
00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:12.319
like reading the guidebook is almost letting
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.599
the author decide how your day goes or what you
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.079
think about your day. Like you're introducing
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.420
your own bias by saying, hey, what is somebody
00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:22.700
else's opinion of this? What is somebody else's
00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.460
meaning behind this? And yeah, okay. I mean,
00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:28.730
I bought an Oracle deck early in my journey,
00:19:28.730 --> 00:19:31.130
where I bought a goddess deck. But that was because
00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:34.190
I was super into mythology and I wasn't as familiar
00:19:34.190 --> 00:19:36.410
with goddesses and the different traditions.
00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:39.009
And so I used it as a learning tool. I was like,
00:19:39.170 --> 00:19:41.089
I want to pull a goddess every day and then I
00:19:41.089 --> 00:19:43.490
want to read up on her and find out more about
00:19:43.490 --> 00:19:45.769
her, who she is and what she represents and what
00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.470
she's connected to. So that I think is a great
00:19:48.470 --> 00:19:50.390
way to learn things if you want to use a guidebook
00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:53.769
that way. But as to your point, Tim, it's like...
00:19:53.450 --> 00:19:56.569
Why not give it your own meaning? And that, by
00:19:56.569 --> 00:20:00.109
the way, to me is a spell. What you described
00:20:00.109 --> 00:20:02.890
as like, I'm going to pull a card and then I'm
00:20:02.890 --> 00:20:04.509
going to make that card mean something great
00:20:04.509 --> 00:20:08.410
for my day. That's a spell. You're putting intention
00:20:08.410 --> 00:20:10.490
behind a ritual and you're saying this is what
00:20:10.490 --> 00:20:14.529
I want my day to be. I love that. So my next
00:20:14.529 --> 00:20:18.369
question, I was hoping to sound like I knew things
00:20:18.369 --> 00:20:20.640
and I was smart. Then I realized I can't even
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.259
pronounce one of the words. So I looked this
00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:25.700
up and I cheated, but it said standard tarot
00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:29.720
decks usually have 22 major and 56 minor. Is
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:31.900
it arcana? How do you say that word? Arcana.
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.440
Arcana. Can you explain what arcana means and
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.500
why that matters? Yeah. So this is getting into
00:20:38.500 --> 00:20:40.539
the difference between the oracle and the tarot.
00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:42.759
This is a perfect follow -up question because
00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:47.029
the tarot does have a much more complex system
00:20:47.029 --> 00:20:49.670
behind it. It started out as a game, like playing
00:20:49.670 --> 00:20:52.549
cards. So it has four suits and then the major
00:20:52.549 --> 00:20:55.009
arcana, like you mentioned. And so the major
00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:58.130
arcana are kind of like archetypes. That's where
00:20:58.130 --> 00:20:59.990
you get the cards that people often associate
00:20:59.990 --> 00:21:03.990
with tarot, like the death card, the devil card,
00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:07.869
the lover's card. the high priestess, the empress,
00:21:07.970 --> 00:21:10.250
the emperor. There's a whole gambit and they
00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:13.809
kind of tell a story. So the first one, the card
00:21:13.809 --> 00:21:16.529
zero, and there's a lot of numerology connected
00:21:16.529 --> 00:21:18.769
as well because there's numbers and symbols on
00:21:18.769 --> 00:21:21.750
each card. The first card is the fool. So it's
00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:23.829
kind of like telling the story of the fool's
00:21:23.829 --> 00:21:26.890
journey of how the fool becomes the magician.
00:21:27.349 --> 00:21:29.430
That's card number one. And, you know, starts
00:21:29.430 --> 00:21:32.809
out on this journey of self enlightenment and
00:21:32.809 --> 00:21:36.450
goes through a series of trials and temptations.
00:21:36.650 --> 00:21:39.750
That's where the devil card comes in. I never
00:21:39.750 --> 00:21:42.910
had any idea that that's really cool. Yeah, it
00:21:42.910 --> 00:21:44.650
can be really cool. And the combinations are
00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:48.750
endless. I mean, it's like 4 .5 quadrillion.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.339
different combinations. You could have a Celtic
00:21:51.339 --> 00:21:55.880
cross spread. Readers have to know all of these
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:58.059
different combinations and symbols. It's really
00:21:58.059 --> 00:22:01.740
a study. It really is a language. Not to say
00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:03.480
you can't just pick up a tarot deck and read
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:05.380
it intuitively like you would an oracle deck,
00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:07.220
but for most people, if they're just starting
00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:10.119
out and they start with tarot, It could be overwhelming.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.500
I suggest taking classes. I suggest for people
00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:17.460
who really want to get into it, they would really
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:20.779
take the time to practice, really knowing all
00:22:20.779 --> 00:22:24.259
of that. There's so much symbolism in every card.
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.299
The basic Rider -Waite -Smith deck, which is
00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:30.119
kind of the first published tarot deck, Smith
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.279
being the illustrator who made those original
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:34.660
pictures. That's usually what people study first
00:22:34.660 --> 00:22:37.940
because there's just every animal, every flower,
00:22:38.299 --> 00:22:41.259
every color, everything means something. And
00:22:41.259 --> 00:22:43.299
then, of course, there have been millions of
00:22:43.299 --> 00:22:45.559
variations and you can get like a Nightmare Before
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:47.539
Christmas tarot deck or you can get a Golden
00:22:47.539 --> 00:22:51.200
Girls tarot deck now. So yeah, that answers your
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.960
question. Do you see it as something that's spiritual,
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.960
psychological, intuitive or artistic or is it
00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:02.509
kind of a combination? Or none of those. Or none
00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:05.089
of those. Absolutely a combination of those things.
00:23:05.809 --> 00:23:08.650
I was just recently reached out to by a psychologist
00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:11.549
who was like, I want to incorporate tarot readings
00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:14.470
in my practice, but I don't know how. I don't
00:23:14.470 --> 00:23:16.450
know what that would look like or how we would
00:23:16.450 --> 00:23:18.529
do that. And I said, there's a lot of spiritual
00:23:18.529 --> 00:23:21.470
psychoanalysts that are using more of these sort
00:23:21.470 --> 00:23:24.069
of mystical tools and healing tool and energy
00:23:24.069 --> 00:23:27.630
healing in their practice. So I think absolutely
00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:30.589
it can be psychological. I myself use honey.
00:23:31.049 --> 00:23:33.950
energy healing, which is it's not honey as in
00:23:33.950 --> 00:23:37.069
like, honey that you eat. Honey in Welsh means
00:23:37.069 --> 00:23:40.630
energy. So the great work by Tiffany Lasik is
00:23:40.630 --> 00:23:44.210
where I studied from her. She's a psychoanalyst
00:23:44.210 --> 00:23:47.990
who incorporated the wheel of the year, meaning
00:23:47.990 --> 00:23:50.519
all of the different phases of the year. and
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:52.960
there are tarot associations to each of the Wheel
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.880
of the Year as well. She also associates it with
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.660
Erikson's developmental stages. There's psychological
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.980
connections into everything there. It's alchemical,
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:08.960
meaning transformation in the soul to its higher
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:13.680
self. It is spiritual and it can also be really
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.559
lighthearted. Especially tarot, I think a lot
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:19.819
of people can do a tarot reading just on the
00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:23.099
most superficial level, something just fun. I
00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:24.839
did a reading once, one of my favorite readings
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:27.660
ever, where we were just having fun and the girl
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:31.299
was like, why do I like spicy novels so much?
00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:35.240
Spicy romantic novels. And she goes, why do I
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:38.000
like it so much? And we started pulling cards
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.420
and it was the funniest thing I'd ever seen.
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:44.740
There was like five of wands, which is just like
00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:47.710
five guys chasing each other with sticks. You
00:24:47.710 --> 00:24:49.869
can kind of... It sounds like a romantic novel.
00:24:50.190 --> 00:24:54.390
Yeah. Welcome to the ritual. I'm like, well,
00:24:54.410 --> 00:24:57.170
you know, so far you haven't had anybody who
00:24:57.170 --> 00:24:59.289
knew what he was doing with his stick or whatever.
00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:02.109
We can't even get into it. And then the King
00:25:02.109 --> 00:25:05.890
of Swords came up and I was like, oh, I mean...
00:25:05.890 --> 00:25:08.470
This guy knows what he's doing. He knows what
00:25:08.470 --> 00:25:10.230
to do with a sword. He knows what he's doing.
00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:14.069
Yeah. So it was absolutely just kind of fun and
00:25:14.069 --> 00:25:16.150
lighthearted. And it doesn't have to be so deep,
00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:19.130
right? Okay. I love that. So what is the term
00:25:19.130 --> 00:25:20.849
that you give to a person that's having their
00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:23.490
cards read? Is it called a queer end? Yes. I
00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:25.650
don't usually use that term, but that is technically
00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:28.650
the term. Okay. I use clients because they're
00:25:28.650 --> 00:25:31.650
healing clients in any capacity that they come
00:25:31.650 --> 00:25:33.630
to see me for energy work or anything else. So
00:25:33.630 --> 00:25:35.789
I just say, Oh, it's a client of mine. Okay,
00:25:35.990 --> 00:25:39.089
perfect. So my question for you is, I'm sure
00:25:39.089 --> 00:25:42.569
there's more people out there that are than probably
00:25:42.569 --> 00:25:45.750
aren't that are skeptical of tarot and everything
00:25:45.750 --> 00:25:50.869
that you do. So do you need to necessarily believe
00:25:50.869 --> 00:25:55.650
in the tarot to have it be helpful or can anyone
00:25:55.650 --> 00:25:58.890
have it? You know, I guess, can it make you a
00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:00.769
believer? Yeah, I guess it'd be hard because
00:26:00.769 --> 00:26:02.829
you know, they already go in with a mindset of
00:26:02.829 --> 00:26:05.960
this is all cuckoo bananas and whatever, but.
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.319
Woo woo. Yeah. Woo woo. So, I mean, do you get
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:11.799
my question? Do you have to be a. Do you have
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:14.319
to believe in it? Yeah. For it to work. Yeah.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.019
I don't think so. I don't think you have to believe
00:26:17.019 --> 00:26:19.559
in it. I think that there is. In anything that
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:22.720
I do, there is sort of a consent of the higher
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.779
self that has to be there in some form or another.
00:26:25.940 --> 00:26:29.079
I don't just read people that don't want to be
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:30.980
read, but it's interesting. You should grab somebody
00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:32.920
and walk them by in a coffee shop and be like,
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:37.160
excuse me, I flipped a card for you. Just like
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:40.500
I think mediumship as well, or anyone who does
00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:42.700
psychic ability, things like that. There is sort
00:26:42.700 --> 00:26:45.579
of an ethical practice about it. There is some
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:47.539
And this is going off on a tangent a little bit,
00:26:47.660 --> 00:26:50.619
but there's some debate in the woo woo world
00:26:50.619 --> 00:26:53.660
that someone like Teresa Caputo, who does the
00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:55.720
Long Island medium, people may have watched her
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:58.480
show. The TV show. Yes. And the way that she
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:00.319
stops people in the street and starts reading
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.539
them. there's some question about whether or
00:27:02.539 --> 00:27:04.240
not that's ethical. And she's just like, well,
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:05.740
I'm just trying to help people. And I know that
00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:07.279
there's a message you need to get. I don't think
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:09.140
there's any question of this that's ethical.
00:27:09.460 --> 00:27:11.839
I say absolutely not. Yeah. I mean, there should
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.660
be some like, is it okay if I get a message from
00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.259
someone who's departed? That would be more appropriate.
00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:21.980
I work in the laboratory sciences field and I'm
00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.480
finishing my doctorate right now and it reminds
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.559
me of the ethical questions around genetic research
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.720
and basically like just because we can tell someone
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.140
they have this, is it ethical to do so? And so
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:36.160
I had to navigate a lot of that with my project
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.740
on at what point are you giving people information
00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:43.720
that they can't act on or is going to unreasonably
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:46.960
scare them when really what your result is telling
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.440
them is that they have a 1 % higher likelihood
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.549
of XYZ. Is it okay that you tell them that? And
00:27:52.549 --> 00:27:54.509
navigating all of those things, I think it's
00:27:54.509 --> 00:27:56.930
the same thing. It's that informed consent. Hey,
00:27:56.930 --> 00:27:59.069
I have a message for you from someone that's
00:27:59.069 --> 00:28:02.609
departed. Can I give it to you? No? Okay, bye.
00:28:03.049 --> 00:28:06.210
Sorry, can't tell them. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.
00:28:06.230 --> 00:28:08.809
But if they sit down and they're like, I don't
00:28:08.809 --> 00:28:10.930
believe in this at all. I'm going to sit and
00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:12.789
get a reading. You have to assume that they're
00:28:12.789 --> 00:28:14.349
at least open to hearing what you have to say
00:28:14.349 --> 00:28:17.569
and that potentially whatever is said might change
00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:19.829
their mind. It might not. you know, it kind of
00:28:19.829 --> 00:28:22.150
was up to the experience that they have. But
00:28:22.150 --> 00:28:25.430
I will say readers like myself, we don't need
00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:28.549
to be tested. If I could just give that out there
00:28:28.549 --> 00:28:30.630
right away, a story I've just heard the other
00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:32.490
day where he was like, I hate it when they come
00:28:32.490 --> 00:28:34.529
and test you and they sit down and they say,
00:28:34.829 --> 00:28:37.190
I need to connect better with my daughter, for
00:28:37.190 --> 00:28:38.910
example. And so you do a reading and you're like,
00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:40.309
these are the things that the cards are telling
00:28:40.309 --> 00:28:41.630
you to connect better with your daughter. You
00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:43.410
need these things in place and blah, blah, blah.
00:28:43.769 --> 00:28:46.549
And then at the end, she's like, well, my daughter's
00:28:46.549 --> 00:28:49.069
dead. And you're like, you didn't tell me that
00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:51.450
in the beginning because you're testing to see
00:28:51.450 --> 00:28:53.569
if I would know it. Like as a psychic, I should
00:28:53.569 --> 00:28:55.890
know those things. It doesn't work like that.
00:28:56.069 --> 00:28:57.990
I'm hoping that people kind of get out of that.
00:28:58.250 --> 00:29:01.069
Like it's not a party trick guys. That's so dumb.
00:29:01.130 --> 00:29:03.569
That annoys me just hearing about it. Yeah. And
00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:07.529
it's kind of like, if I am going to tap in to
00:29:07.529 --> 00:29:09.430
connecting with your departed loved one, I need
00:29:09.430 --> 00:29:11.170
to know that's what I'm working on right now.
00:29:11.289 --> 00:29:14.970
In fact, a lot of us will wall up energetically
00:29:14.970 --> 00:29:18.670
wall up. to focus on the reading because we don't
00:29:18.670 --> 00:29:21.230
want to be distracted by messages flooding in
00:29:21.230 --> 00:29:24.390
and having that gate just open. And there are
00:29:24.390 --> 00:29:26.769
different ways of going about that. One of our
00:29:26.769 --> 00:29:29.609
guides is usually, and you all have them too,
00:29:29.950 --> 00:29:33.410
is a gatekeeper, someone who gate keeps the messages
00:29:33.410 --> 00:29:36.069
so that you can focus on what you need to, what
00:29:36.069 --> 00:29:38.470
is going to serve there and your highest good.
00:29:38.849 --> 00:29:44.950
Right? You just may not be connected and you
00:29:44.950 --> 00:29:46.930
may want to maybe work on that because then it
00:29:46.930 --> 00:29:49.269
can really help and serve you if you're like,
00:29:49.430 --> 00:29:51.630
hey, gatekeeper, I don't want all that today.
00:29:51.750 --> 00:29:54.410
Like, I don't want to be bombarded with energetic
00:29:54.410 --> 00:29:57.049
and emotional messages, you know, empathic people
00:29:57.049 --> 00:29:58.869
that are just like, I'm constantly feeling what
00:29:58.869 --> 00:30:01.609
other people are feeling and you can't live like
00:30:01.609 --> 00:30:04.710
that. I was going to say our daughter is an empath
00:30:04.710 --> 00:30:06.849
through and through. She has a lot of feelings.
00:30:06.950 --> 00:30:10.150
Anytime, you know, she can read a room so well
00:30:10.150 --> 00:30:13.170
and totally get, I mean, I could try to hide
00:30:13.170 --> 00:30:16.170
my emotions as best as I can. And somehow within,
00:30:16.170 --> 00:30:18.450
you know, a little bit of time hanging out with
00:30:18.450 --> 00:30:22.009
her, she'll tap into that somehow and ask me
00:30:22.009 --> 00:30:24.130
about it. And I'm just like, I don't know. I
00:30:24.130 --> 00:30:26.289
feel like there's adults that I interact with
00:30:26.289 --> 00:30:28.269
out there every day that would never be able
00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.589
to read the room or read exactly what I'm doing.
00:30:30.730 --> 00:30:33.529
I feel like I'm pretty good at hiding some of
00:30:33.529 --> 00:30:39.079
my deeper feelings and emotions, but Oh my gosh,
00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:41.319
she'll walk in sometimes and be like, you sound
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.000
like you've had a lot of meetings today. I'm
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.900
like, wow, I feel like a horrible parent. Okay.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:50.339
No, that's beautiful. She's like, here's the
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:55.619
diet coke. Good luck with the rest of them. She's
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:58.480
a kindred spirit. She already can tune into what
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.519
you need, what healing is required, what medicine
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:04.519
is needed, which is a diet coke in this circumstance.
00:31:04.700 --> 00:31:07.509
I love that. And you're right, you won't be able
00:31:07.509 --> 00:31:09.490
to hide emotions from people like that. I mean,
00:31:09.569 --> 00:31:11.470
when they're tapped in like that, and it can
00:31:11.470 --> 00:31:13.269
be to their detriment, but it can also be their
00:31:13.269 --> 00:31:16.420
gift, right? Which is like, learn how to board
00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:19.920
that up and also use it to your advantage of
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.279
caring for people and being in tune and keeping
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.819
yourself safe as well. So I think that's wonderful,
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.440
but you won't be able to hide it from her, I
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.759
don't think. So she's going to begin her apprenticeship
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.880
and she's going to be Courtney's new apprentice,
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.920
it sounds like. When I start my own Hogwarts,
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.799
it'll be like some Academy of Magic or something.
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:39.420
I am not prepared for this kid to turn 11 because
00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.059
we're going to have to make a letter for the
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:43.680
school of Courtney. Like we're going to have
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:46.730
to do something. I'm on it. It might ruin her
00:31:46.730 --> 00:31:48.750
life if she doesn't get a letter on her 11th
00:31:48.750 --> 00:31:50.690
birthday. That would be amazing. I did that for
00:31:50.690 --> 00:31:53.289
my son at 11 too. He gave me a reading one. Are
00:31:53.289 --> 00:31:57.289
there any situations where tarot reading is extremely
00:31:57.289 --> 00:31:59.809
helpful? Are there certain people that it benefits
00:31:59.809 --> 00:32:02.069
more than others? And are there any that should
00:32:02.069 --> 00:32:04.750
really avoid having a reading? That is a good
00:32:04.750 --> 00:32:08.430
question because I do feel like the reading will
00:32:08.430 --> 00:32:11.569
be, like I said, if it's a good reader, not somebody
00:32:11.569 --> 00:32:12.910
who's like, I'm going to tell you how to live
00:32:12.910 --> 00:32:16.369
your life. It would be disappointing, I think,
00:32:16.410 --> 00:32:18.930
if you went into it with sort of a desperation
00:32:18.930 --> 00:32:22.690
for certainty. If you're going into it thinking,
00:32:22.789 --> 00:32:25.289
I'm going to get a certainty on this answer of
00:32:25.289 --> 00:32:27.430
how I should do this or what decision I'm making
00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:31.150
or what's going on in my life right now, it would
00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:34.009
be disappointing because most of the time, and
00:32:34.009 --> 00:32:35.829
I've only had a few readings in all these years
00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:38.309
where I was like, it really is telling you to
00:32:38.309 --> 00:32:42.210
do this or like, this card is really pretty adamant.
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.579
this is the right path for you. Most of the time
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:47.259
it would be here is what you need to know in
00:32:47.259 --> 00:32:49.940
making this decision. And that I think is more
00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:52.900
helpful and more empowering to them. Not so much
00:32:52.900 --> 00:32:56.119
like the cards have all the power. It's this
00:32:56.119 --> 00:32:58.099
is going to show you what you need to know about
00:32:58.099 --> 00:33:00.339
it. And most of the time it is actually just
00:33:00.339 --> 00:33:02.400
confirming what they already knew. They just
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.079
needed the cards to trust themselves. They needed
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.339
that little bit of affirmation and like, yes,
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.700
you are doing okay. Continue on your journey.
00:33:10.099 --> 00:33:11.799
Yeah. Here's what you need to know about it.
00:33:11.859 --> 00:33:14.039
Here's maybe a deeper subconscious thing you
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:16.380
haven't considered might come up in the reading
00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:19.599
most often. So if they're just like, just tell
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:24.059
me what to do. I feel like that's not what you're
00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:26.140
going to get. That's not how it works. It's not
00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:29.480
how it works. Exactly. So I have dabbled in the
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.220
TikTok readings where I'll get on live and I'll
00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:34.500
just say, come with your questions and I'll pull
00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:36.900
a card for you. And I don't know how other TikTok
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:38.319
readers are doing it. And they're just like,
00:33:38.339 --> 00:33:39.900
yep, this is what it says. This is what it says.
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:41.940
This is what it says. I can't do that. I can't
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:44.519
even do like the yes or no readings because I'm
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.240
like, well, actually here's a whole bunch of
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:48.980
stuff that you need to know. And so I'll go off
00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:51.180
and it'll take me 15 minutes to get there. Which
00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:53.319
I feel like on one hand, you're like, I just
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:55.039
want a yes or no, but on the other, you're like,
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:59.039
The fact that you know these details or you know
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.880
how to educate me about what I'm getting makes
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:04.000
me feel like I'm getting so much more than a
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.819
yes or no and so much better quality than someone
00:34:06.819 --> 00:34:09.099
who's just giving me a yes or no. Yeah. I don't
00:34:09.099 --> 00:34:11.000
know how to do yes or no. I really don't. I don't
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.219
even know how that would look, but I get a lot
00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:15.719
of questions from people who are like, am I pregnant
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:18.480
or is my boyfriend going to come back to me?
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:21.039
And I'm like, you're going to be disappointed
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.480
by these answers because... Shake the eight ball.
00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:26.500
Yeah, Shakespeare, exactly. That would be more
00:34:26.500 --> 00:34:29.139
like it. And then additionally to that, I feel
00:34:29.139 --> 00:34:32.579
like a tarot reading is kind of a good start
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:35.340
to something. But because I do other things,
00:34:35.500 --> 00:34:38.059
I do energy healing, I do a lot of inner child
00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:42.139
emotional processing work that I have. seen change
00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:44.960
people's lives so traumatic, like it's neural
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:48.619
reprogramming basically. So for me, a tarot reading
00:34:48.619 --> 00:34:51.659
is a good first step or yeah, like get some clarity
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:53.840
about a situation. But if they're coming with
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.780
some really deep rooted patterns, ancestral healing,
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:01.500
inner child healing that's needed, I would maybe
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:04.619
direct them to think about booking a full session,
00:35:04.780 --> 00:35:06.780
like there's something more here that you're
00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:08.360
not going to get in just a tarot reading. Yeah,
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:10.340
that one tarot reading is not the end game for
00:35:10.340 --> 00:35:14.400
them. Yeah. Yeah. So that sparks a question and
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:18.260
made me think of something. Does tarot work online
00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:21.059
or over platforms like Zoom, or is it much more
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:23.840
effective and better to do in person? That's
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.199
the beauty of energy work is it does not matter
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:30.300
where you are on the planet. I can read the energy
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:33.789
from anywhere. Like it doesn't understand space
00:35:33.789 --> 00:35:37.230
and distance like we think of it. It doesn't
00:35:37.230 --> 00:35:39.769
work like that. So yeah, any of my services,
00:35:40.050 --> 00:35:42.639
any of them, the energy healing services. I can
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.659
do online. I can do distance. I have in my closet
00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:48.059
just right here next to me, I have a big giant
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:51.199
teddy bear that I call Reiki bear. I can measure
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:54.699
chakras. It's just a proxy for whoever I'm doing
00:35:54.699 --> 00:35:57.400
the energy healing work with if I'm on Zoom or
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.940
in distance. But the card's absolutely 100 %
00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:04.500
just as effective online or on Zoom as it would
00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:06.440
be if you came and sat right in front of me.
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.199
Cool. That's not what I would have expected.
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.139
Yeah. I think that's awesome. Are you located
00:36:11.139 --> 00:36:15.030
in Utah? Yes. As you were mentioning all of the
00:36:15.030 --> 00:36:17.530
difficulty about culturally what it's like, I'm
00:36:17.530 --> 00:36:21.869
like, try being a witch in Utah. It's a completely
00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:24.190
different animal than being anywhere else, which
00:36:24.190 --> 00:36:27.130
is why I'm branching out to more online, broaden
00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:29.809
my audience, I guess, a little bit. Utah might
00:36:29.809 --> 00:36:32.349
not be easy, but at least you're not in Salem
00:36:32.349 --> 00:36:36.840
in the 1600s. Yeah. The similarities sometimes.
00:36:36.940 --> 00:36:39.159
There is something called the witch wound where
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:43.780
the history of betrayal and bias and how we're
00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:46.739
seen and perceived with generations of propaganda
00:36:46.739 --> 00:36:49.380
against us, it does come into play. I have been
00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.260
ostracized from business groups and things like
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:55.400
that in the area where they'll accept me if I
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:57.760
market myself in just an energy healing way.
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.500
They're like, well, we're more open to that.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.940
But as soon as the word witchcraft or witch comes
00:37:01.940 --> 00:37:05.760
into play at all, they're like, Nah. So I have
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.260
chosen to adopt that title and stick with it
00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:10.559
no matter what, even if people have their own
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.119
feelings about it. Yeah, of course. Stick to
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:13.860
your guns for sure. I think the authenticity
00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:17.840
and education defy location. Yeah. And I think,
00:37:18.460 --> 00:37:21.179
I mean, I know I'm weird and different, but if
00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:22.400
I came across somebody - I'm glad you know it.
00:37:22.420 --> 00:37:25.300
... such as you that come out with a bold statement,
00:37:25.539 --> 00:37:27.039
you know, like you said - Everyone's a witch.
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.500
I'm a witch or everyone's a witch. Yeah. I think
00:37:29.500 --> 00:37:33.420
that is so cool. Whereas, I think a lot of people
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:36.280
are like, okay, freak, like I'll see you later.
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:38.320
Yeah, I read him the comment that you put that
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:41.179
was talking about, I'm gonna spin by priestess.
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:45.559
And I was like, Tim, we have to talk to her.
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:48.590
Yeah, she did. We were so excited. helpful for
00:37:48.590 --> 00:37:50.590
me, actually, because I'm a little bit like,
00:37:50.909 --> 00:37:53.110
do I dare say this? I mean, what is this going
00:37:53.110 --> 00:37:55.989
to feel like or look like to people? And yeah,
00:37:56.329 --> 00:37:58.670
but I always say like, when I give that claim,
00:37:58.849 --> 00:38:01.170
like everyone's a witch, I ask them questions
00:38:01.170 --> 00:38:03.269
like, have you ever enjoyed a sound bath? Have
00:38:03.269 --> 00:38:06.429
you ever put a candle in a cake and made a wish?
00:38:06.969 --> 00:38:09.519
Like, literally, you could just look at like
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:11.320
pulling a card for an affirmation every day.
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.400
That's something that's become pretty mainstream.
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.159
Mindfulness practices, Buddhist practices that
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:18.599
are, you know, creating good energy and mindfulness
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.940
for the day, that's witchcraft. We just don't
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:24.079
usually call it that. Can you sort of shorten
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.960
it down, but can you kind of walk us through
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:29.659
what a session with you would look like? What
00:38:29.659 --> 00:38:32.260
does the tarot reading actually look like in
00:38:32.260 --> 00:38:36.219
practice? Yeah, so I like to pull, I mean, I
00:38:36.219 --> 00:38:39.000
have a pretty good card collection. I've got
00:38:39.050 --> 00:38:42.289
Not majorly. I don't like to overdo it. Some
00:38:42.289 --> 00:38:44.849
people have hundreds and hundreds of decks. Oh,
00:38:44.849 --> 00:38:46.630
wow. I was going to ask, what's a lot to you?
00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:48.429
I was going to say, what's overdoing it? I haven't
00:38:48.429 --> 00:38:50.929
actually counted how many decks I have in a minute,
00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:53.090
but I have a shelf. I have a shelf. I know that.
00:38:53.369 --> 00:38:55.869
But I like to intentionally, I like to get to
00:38:55.869 --> 00:38:58.369
know my decks really well. I don't just collect
00:38:58.369 --> 00:39:00.929
for the sake of collecting, but I pull some decks
00:39:00.929 --> 00:39:03.599
for the reading. based on what I think the client
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.079
will resonate with. I like the client to choose
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.059
which deck they like based on the artwork. I
00:39:09.059 --> 00:39:11.059
have one here. I know listeners can't see it,
00:39:11.260 --> 00:39:13.639
but I have the Mind's Eye Tarot. I have a lot
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:16.420
of different ones with different images, different
00:39:16.420 --> 00:39:18.780
vibes, different feelings I pick based on the
00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:21.900
artwork. I like to have a few choices and I like
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:24.340
the client to pick what they want. And then I
00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:26.420
might ask them, start asking them questions about
00:39:26.420 --> 00:39:28.900
what is your intention going into today? What
00:39:28.900 --> 00:39:31.219
questions did you have for me? What are you coming
00:39:31.219 --> 00:39:34.719
with that you feel stuck or you feel like has
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.340
been occupying your mind a lot? Because I usually
00:39:37.340 --> 00:39:39.900
booked an appointment for a reason most of the
00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:42.760
time. Then I'll choose a spread I think will
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.559
be the most effective. I don't personally use
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:48.099
the Celtic Cross too much. That's pretty basic.
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:50.800
Most tarot readers use that. first. But I haven't
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:53.800
used it that much because I like to do the energy
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:56.199
centers. We're kind of looking at each of the
00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:59.260
energy centers of the body and what card is pulled
00:39:59.260 --> 00:40:01.840
for each of those is a really great one. I've
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:03.739
had ones that will book a healing session right
00:40:03.739 --> 00:40:05.900
after our card session. So we'll do the card
00:40:05.900 --> 00:40:08.079
session and then go into a healing appointment
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:10.300
so we know kind of what we're working with. based
00:40:10.300 --> 00:40:12.280
on the cards we pulled. So there's a couple of
00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:14.099
different spreads that we'll use and then we'll
00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:16.599
just start going into pulling one at a time and
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:18.480
talking about each one and what it means for
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:20.739
them. Sometimes I'll be asking them questions
00:40:20.739 --> 00:40:23.219
like I'll pull a card and the guide's telling
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:26.380
me they need to tell you this. They need to say
00:40:26.380 --> 00:40:29.099
something like I'll say, here's a card with three
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:31.860
people in it. Which of these three people are
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:34.889
you? Which one do you think you are in this card?
00:40:34.969 --> 00:40:36.449
Because that's going to change the meaning of
00:40:36.449 --> 00:40:39.750
it, right? And so it's a conversation throughout
00:40:39.750 --> 00:40:43.130
the entire session. That's really cool. Absolutely.
00:40:43.809 --> 00:40:47.329
So I want to kind of take a shift now that I
00:40:47.329 --> 00:40:49.969
feel like we've gotten a good understanding of
00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:53.269
tarot and witchcraft and we've sort of defined
00:40:53.269 --> 00:40:55.090
where we are and what we're talking about. I
00:40:55.090 --> 00:40:57.630
want to dive in a little bit with a few questions
00:40:57.630 --> 00:41:01.429
on tarot reading specifically and you as a reader.
00:41:01.610 --> 00:41:05.469
What drew you into tarot? And I feel like you
00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:07.829
have so much knowledge. Was there a moment when
00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:10.260
you finally felt like... wow, this clicked. I
00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:13.699
get this. Yeah. I mean, I had been doing all
00:41:13.699 --> 00:41:17.480
of the studying and certifications. And I mean,
00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:20.019
like I said, I am the type of person who would
00:41:20.019 --> 00:41:22.300
never just go out and start charging money for
00:41:22.300 --> 00:41:24.440
something or calling myself a name or a title
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:27.780
without a lot to back it up with. And so I was
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:29.780
already graduating from the Institute of Healing
00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:32.559
Arts where I learned integration processing technique.
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:35.320
of emotional processing, which is energy work.
00:41:35.420 --> 00:41:38.480
It's just a different type. I was Reiki certified
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:40.719
and I was already in that world doing a lot of
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:44.239
that. Taro really appealed to me. I liked playing
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:47.739
with it, learning about it. I dove in with it
00:41:47.739 --> 00:41:50.500
and I did years of just pulling a card for myself,
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.119
just pulling a card every day, studying what
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:56.639
that card meant. I have a notebook that's full.
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.300
I mean, you'd be amazed at the notes I've taken
00:41:59.300 --> 00:42:02.800
on each page, a different card and just the notes
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:05.280
I've taken about that. And then someone said,
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.380
there's a master class going on. You can take
00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:10.440
a class from a bunch of professional readers
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:12.519
that have been doing it for like 50 years, written
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.480
books on the subject. So I took that masterclass.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.219
Phyllis Currett was one of the teachers and she
00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.039
wrote The Witch's Wisdom. She's like 50 years
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:24.780
of experience. So I got a chance to really get
00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:28.659
a lot of really cool takes on it. that not everybody
00:42:28.659 --> 00:42:31.480
does it the same. There is a lot of academia
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:33.739
behind it, but then there's also this whole,
00:42:34.099 --> 00:42:37.159
well, I interpret it this way. For example, each
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:41.679
of the suits, there's four suits and there's
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:44.380
wands and there's swords. There's different variations
00:42:44.380 --> 00:42:46.780
of that, but most of the time associated with
00:42:46.780 --> 00:42:50.460
the element of swords is air, meaning mental
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:53.739
and intellectual and communication, and the wands
00:42:53.739 --> 00:42:55.900
are associated with fire. And that's the way
00:42:55.900 --> 00:42:59.179
most tarot readers will read that. But I never
00:42:59.179 --> 00:43:01.599
felt like that resonated with me. And this particular
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:04.199
teacher told me she doesn't either. She does
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:07.099
the swords are fire and the wands are air. To
00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:09.780
me, that makes more sense. I feel like wands
00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:11.519
are made of wood, which are trees which make
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.059
air. Swords are forged in fire. It just made
00:43:14.059 --> 00:43:15.960
more sense to me that that's the way we would
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:17.300
read those elements. Yeah. I don't know why,
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:19.139
but it's the same for me. It makes more sense
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:21.900
your way, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And so I learned
00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:24.099
that there was a lot of room for interpretation
00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:26.500
and there's a lot of history behind all of the
00:43:26.500 --> 00:43:29.400
different suits and the way that Tarot has come
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.579
to be. Then one day, finally, after all this
00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.940
education, I was at a party where somebody had
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:38.239
hired a reader and she was taking us back one
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.159
by one in her room and she was doing a little
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:42.579
reading with us and she was great. She was excellent.
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:45.510
But when I got the reading, I realized I can
00:43:45.510 --> 00:43:48.710
do this. I can do what she just did for me. I
00:43:48.710 --> 00:43:50.670
can do that for people." And then I started adding
00:43:50.670 --> 00:43:53.769
it to my services in a lower rate. I'm just starting
00:43:53.769 --> 00:43:56.150
out as a professional. I've been reading for
00:43:56.150 --> 00:43:58.349
friends and family and I've done enough of the
00:43:58.349 --> 00:44:01.210
free practice. But one of the things that I just
00:44:01.210 --> 00:44:03.550
have to touch on as we talk about that is when
00:44:03.550 --> 00:44:06.230
it's time to start charging, that is never just
00:44:06.230 --> 00:44:09.690
so cut and dry. but some people have a complicated
00:44:09.690 --> 00:44:11.650
feeling about whether to charge for something
00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:13.469
that should just be a healing thing and should
00:44:13.469 --> 00:44:15.250
just be free or should just come from the heart.
00:44:15.730 --> 00:44:17.750
The thing that I realized, and mentors have told
00:44:17.750 --> 00:44:20.409
me this as well, is yeah, I was doing it for
00:44:20.409 --> 00:44:22.369
free with friends and family and whoever wanted
00:44:22.369 --> 00:44:24.650
a reading, I would do it for free. But people
00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:28.329
who get it for free do not get as much out of
00:44:28.329 --> 00:44:32.070
it and walk away feeling like, was fun or interesting.
00:44:35.050 --> 00:44:39.070
If there is an energetic exchange and an actual
00:44:39.070 --> 00:44:42.730
investment in the work, they will take the reading
00:44:42.730 --> 00:44:45.909
more seriously and actually walk away with, oh,
00:44:45.909 --> 00:44:48.070
these are the things I need to know or how to
00:44:48.070 --> 00:44:51.030
change my life or how to apply this in my life.
00:44:51.550 --> 00:44:55.670
And so it is an energetic exchange and we've
00:44:55.670 --> 00:44:57.889
put in the work and the time and the education
00:44:57.889 --> 00:45:00.090
to learn what we've learned. And so I don't have
00:45:00.090 --> 00:45:03.190
any any ethical qualms about charging money.
00:45:03.429 --> 00:45:05.789
I just charged a lot less when I started out
00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:08.130
and then as I became more and more professional
00:45:08.130 --> 00:45:10.829
and experienced, I raised prices accordingly.
00:45:11.309 --> 00:45:13.349
Yeah, I was going to say it reminds me of people,
00:45:13.349 --> 00:45:15.869
you can argue the ethics of dog breeding one
00:45:15.869 --> 00:45:19.510
way or the other, it's fine. But people that
00:45:19.510 --> 00:45:23.889
sell puppies are in certain ways vetting the
00:45:23.889 --> 00:45:26.010
people that are taking the puppies and saying
00:45:26.010 --> 00:45:29.909
like if you're buying a hard breed, like a Siberian
00:45:29.909 --> 00:45:33.869
husky. You are selling that dog for a high value.
00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:38.250
However, the dog is a big investment in time
00:45:38.250 --> 00:45:43.289
and energy and years of your couch. If you cannot
00:45:43.289 --> 00:45:46.250
afford the puppy, you cannot afford the mental
00:45:46.250 --> 00:45:48.869
load of the dog later. So there's breeders that
00:45:48.869 --> 00:45:51.829
will say a free husky puppy is one that's going
00:45:51.829 --> 00:45:55.210
to go to a shelter, whereas one that is sold
00:45:55.210 --> 00:45:58.920
is going to a forever home. And I think you could
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:01.179
argue either way in that, but that's what it
00:46:01.179 --> 00:46:03.719
reminded me of is kind of the idea of you are
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:05.860
getting what you put into it. And if you put
00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.179
nothing into it, you're not going to get much
00:46:08.179 --> 00:46:10.539
of anything out of it. Whereas if you're investing
00:46:10.539 --> 00:46:13.420
in that learning ability, you're getting something
00:46:13.420 --> 00:46:17.329
from that. And to your point too, with that example,
00:46:17.670 --> 00:46:20.449
with witchcraft or with healing work or with
00:46:20.449 --> 00:46:22.690
anything, this is the way that I do it. This
00:46:22.690 --> 00:46:24.570
is the way that I was trained and this is the
00:46:24.570 --> 00:46:26.630
way I feel about it. This is how I go about it.
00:46:26.690 --> 00:46:29.469
And like I said, I'm just speaking for me. That's
00:46:29.469 --> 00:46:32.400
not to say Because we have a lot of bias, a lot
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:34.639
of people thinking witchcraft is evil, tarot
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.659
is evil, it's the devil, a demon, whatever. It's
00:46:37.659 --> 00:46:39.599
not to say that there aren't people who practice
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:43.059
what I do in a different context that do believe
00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:45.980
in hexing and do believe in cursing and it's
00:46:45.980 --> 00:46:48.500
as diverse as people themselves and the intention
00:46:48.500 --> 00:46:50.599
that they put into it. Right. How do people tell
00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:54.300
the difference between a genuine reader and kind
00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:57.280
of a glorified scammer, if you will? This is
00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:59.980
where I wish I could teach every person walking
00:46:59.980 --> 00:47:02.519
no matter whether they consider themselves an
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:06.019
energy or woo -woo person or not is to follow
00:47:06.019 --> 00:47:10.460
their intuition, to learn how to know yourself
00:47:10.460 --> 00:47:13.059
well enough, to know what is the vibe you get
00:47:13.059 --> 00:47:15.360
when you meet this person, when you talk to this
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:17.340
person. Do they seem knowledgeable about what
00:47:17.340 --> 00:47:19.659
they're doing? And like I said earlier, if they
00:47:19.659 --> 00:47:22.739
are shitting on you in the reading, if they start
00:47:22.739 --> 00:47:25.320
doing like, well, girl, you just better leave
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:27.820
your husband or whatever it is. And that's how
00:47:27.820 --> 00:47:30.219
it's going to go. You start to feel it. You start
00:47:30.219 --> 00:47:34.179
to feel like this person isn't serving my highest
00:47:34.179 --> 00:47:36.920
good. So, yeah, whether you're woo woo or not,
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.119
I feel like everybody has guides. Everybody has
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:41.440
spiritual intuition. They may not call it that.
00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:43.480
They may call it just like their gut feeling.
00:47:43.820 --> 00:47:46.300
There's a lot to that, a lot more to that than
00:47:46.300 --> 00:47:49.539
we give credit to. So that's first and charging
00:47:49.539 --> 00:47:52.639
way high prices. I keep my prices affordable
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.519
for a reason. There's just certain things like
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:57.599
that that you look at and you go, does that feel
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.480
right to me? Does it feel like that to me the
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.500
way it is? You should like them as a person too.
00:48:03.639 --> 00:48:05.340
You know, your reader. That would probably help.
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.960
Yeah. Yeah. So we've talked about a lot of common
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.679
misconceptions about the term witch and things
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:14.920
like that. But what do you think people most
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:17.880
misunderstand about tarot readers specifically,
00:48:18.179 --> 00:48:21.119
such as yourself? Yeah, that's a good question.
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:24.559
I mean just the misconceptions that we are working
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:28.579
with evil entities of any kind or demonic. I
00:48:28.579 --> 00:48:30.480
think people do get scared when they see that
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:33.260
there is in the major arcana a devil card and
00:48:33.260 --> 00:48:37.300
there is a death card and that in some way, shape
00:48:37.300 --> 00:48:40.809
or form that that's opening yourself up to. something,
00:48:41.210 --> 00:48:43.769
especially if they were raised in sort of a Christian
00:48:43.769 --> 00:48:45.969
background or Catholicism, things like that.
00:48:46.250 --> 00:48:48.289
There's very much like a, the devil is real.
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.480
you have to be so careful because he could get
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:54.500
you. Which again, I'm not saying that there aren't
00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:56.940
readers and people who consider themselves witches
00:48:56.940 --> 00:48:59.420
and practice witchcraft that maybe dabble in
00:48:59.420 --> 00:49:02.619
that kind of thing. But in general, that's not
00:49:02.619 --> 00:49:04.679
necessarily associated with each other. I think
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.380
that really reputable readers, they have a process
00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:09.599
of warding and protecting when they're getting
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.900
ready. They have a ritual of their own when getting
00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:15.099
ready to do a reading. And they know the processes
00:49:15.099 --> 00:49:17.739
of how to do that, energetically protecting the
00:49:17.739 --> 00:49:20.380
reading itself. And same thing with stuff like
00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:22.519
a Ouija board. Ouija boards in and of themselves
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:25.340
not evil and won't necessarily invite demons
00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:27.739
unless you're looking to do that or you don't
00:49:27.739 --> 00:49:29.559
know what you're doing. But if you know that
00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:32.440
it's just a tool for divination or communication
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:35.420
with the other world or energies or frequencies,
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:39.179
then it dispels all of that connection that it
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:43.000
is inherently evil. Have you ever seen a person,
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:45.840
I mean, I don't even know if it's possible, become
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:51.570
too dependent? on tarot. It's absolutely possible.
00:49:52.510 --> 00:49:55.409
And I'll kind of dive into my other work in emotional
00:49:55.409 --> 00:49:59.090
processing is that just about anything that can
00:49:59.090 --> 00:50:02.650
possibly be done in this world has the potential
00:50:02.650 --> 00:50:05.389
to give us a chemical need in our brains, right?
00:50:05.630 --> 00:50:09.230
Like dopamine, endorphins, and they're associated
00:50:09.230 --> 00:50:12.130
with our basic human needs. So whether we find
00:50:12.130 --> 00:50:16.199
that need or we get that need met in productive,
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:19.579
healthy ways, or not, because some people turn
00:50:19.579 --> 00:50:22.699
to drugs. Some people overexercise to the point
00:50:22.699 --> 00:50:24.599
where their bodies are deteriorating from it.
00:50:24.739 --> 00:50:28.119
Some people excessively clean because they're
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:30.000
looking for that hit of dopamine that makes them
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:31.699
feel like they're in control of their life. Right,
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:34.960
and their addictions, basically. Exactly. And
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.639
just like anything can be an addiction, I think
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:39.480
that it's possible that tarot reading or pulling
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:42.820
a card for absolutely everything and being overly
00:50:42.820 --> 00:50:45.280
dependent on it, it's very possible to get there.
00:50:45.460 --> 00:50:47.679
For every decision you make in the day. Should
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:49.420
I go to Wendy's or McDonald's? Let's see what
00:50:49.420 --> 00:50:53.920
the cards say. Form of OCD perhaps that that's
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.840
their way of getting that need met is to pull
00:50:56.840 --> 00:50:59.119
a card. So yeah, it's absolutely possible. Okay.
00:50:59.380 --> 00:51:02.260
Interesting. Are there any questions that you
00:51:02.260 --> 00:51:05.980
refuse to answer for clients? I might help reword
00:51:05.980 --> 00:51:09.280
a question for a client if it isn't aligned with
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:11.139
how the cards work or how they're going to get
00:51:11.139 --> 00:51:13.280
an answer. Because like I said, I do those TikTok
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:15.219
readings and I get a lot of like, am I pregnant?
00:51:18.489 --> 00:51:21.409
could just go to a doctor or a no. And they're
00:51:21.409 --> 00:51:23.429
testing you to see if you know, and you can say
00:51:23.429 --> 00:51:25.389
yes or no. And then I'm like, I'm being tested.
00:51:25.530 --> 00:51:27.809
Okay. Well, you know, that's not how it works.
00:51:27.809 --> 00:51:30.690
But yeah, I might like reword it. Like what is
00:51:30.690 --> 00:51:33.090
it that I need to know about this situation rather
00:51:33.090 --> 00:51:35.590
than like, am I going to get this answer? I'm
00:51:35.590 --> 00:51:37.829
trying to think if there's anything I would refuse
00:51:37.829 --> 00:51:40.760
outright to answer. And maybe this is a little
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:42.960
different than a tarot reading, but I do dream
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.320
interpretation sessions as well. And I had a
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:50.219
client who wanted me to interpret her dream that
00:51:50.219 --> 00:51:54.079
she felt was for her friend and actually invited
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.420
the friend to be in on the Zoom call with us.
00:51:56.670 --> 00:51:59.630
and kept reiterating that what she was seeing
00:51:59.630 --> 00:52:02.730
in her dream meant this about her friend. She
00:52:02.730 --> 00:52:04.389
wanted her friend to break up with her boyfriend,
00:52:04.510 --> 00:52:06.730
essentially. She just wanted her friend to break
00:52:06.730 --> 00:52:08.869
up with her boyfriend and she thought her dream
00:52:08.869 --> 00:52:11.909
meant that for her friend. And I kept having
00:52:11.909 --> 00:52:15.650
to reiterate like over and over again, your dream
00:52:15.650 --> 00:52:18.429
was not a message for someone else. That's not
00:52:18.429 --> 00:52:20.809
how that works. Here's what you need to know.
00:52:21.010 --> 00:52:24.230
Your dream was telling you about you. Like, what
00:52:24.230 --> 00:52:26.630
is the inner work you have to do? Your dream
00:52:26.630 --> 00:52:29.369
was saying maybe your boyfriend is acting like
00:52:29.369 --> 00:52:31.210
her boyfriend and you should take that as a sign.
00:52:31.210 --> 00:52:34.670
Maybe. Or maybe there's a little too much codependency
00:52:34.670 --> 00:52:37.170
with you and your friends thinking you have the
00:52:37.170 --> 00:52:40.829
burden of this relationship on you to deal with
00:52:40.829 --> 00:52:43.230
and it's not actually your stuff. So this is
00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:46.789
inward work for you to do, not for her, right?
00:52:47.050 --> 00:52:48.989
So I mean, literally had to be like, I'm sorry
00:52:48.989 --> 00:52:50.690
she brought you in on this. You're not here to
00:52:50.690 --> 00:52:52.610
be berated about your boyfriend. I don't know.
00:52:52.969 --> 00:52:55.409
So, that may be kind of in that realm of like,
00:52:55.510 --> 00:53:00.230
I am not going to do a reading for someone else
00:53:00.230 --> 00:53:01.869
when you're the one who booked the appointment
00:53:01.869 --> 00:53:03.750
and is sitting in front of me getting the reading.
00:53:04.030 --> 00:53:06.090
Does that make sense? That makes sense. So, it
00:53:06.090 --> 00:53:10.130
sounds like as a reader, you've got to have some
00:53:10.130 --> 00:53:14.070
like ethical or other types of boundaries with
00:53:14.070 --> 00:53:15.949
your clients. Would you say that's accurate?
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:18.940
I think that's smart practice. I think that's
00:53:18.940 --> 00:53:21.760
good because as readers or as energy healers,
00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:24.559
anything like that, you do have to have some
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:27.820
level of boundary like a wall or a professionalism
00:53:27.820 --> 00:53:30.840
or what you're willing to do. And that's why
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:33.380
the training and the practice and the work beforehand
00:53:33.380 --> 00:53:35.559
before you jump into it as a profession is really
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:38.480
important because how you represent yourself
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:40.400
and how you run your business and it really,
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:43.079
really matters to the client and their healing
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:46.019
and to you. Did the cards ever surprise you?
00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:51.199
Every time. Okay. Tell us about that. Surprised
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:54.239
me in such pleasant ways. I don't know. I don't
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.059
go into it with any expectation of what the cards
00:53:56.059 --> 00:53:57.820
are going to say. I mean, sometimes I have an
00:53:57.820 --> 00:54:00.179
intuitive kind of feeling of like, I'm thinking
00:54:00.179 --> 00:54:02.780
this is the way it's going to go. But I leave
00:54:02.780 --> 00:54:05.900
myself really open for I'm going to wait and
00:54:05.900 --> 00:54:07.940
see what the cards say and then we'll interpret
00:54:07.940 --> 00:54:10.239
from there. But I'm always just pleasantly surprised
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:13.260
as I'm doing a reading. it'll be a very specific
00:54:13.260 --> 00:54:15.360
question, maybe about a family member or something,
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:19.280
and I'll have a card flip over that is so perfect.
00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:21.920
I couldn't have written it better if I'd come
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.739
up with it myself kind of a feeling. It might
00:54:24.739 --> 00:54:27.559
be like, I've got some things coming up that
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:30.559
are connected to my past when I was a kid, inner
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:32.480
child work coming up that I've got going on.
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:34.619
And in the reading, I might have a six of cups
00:54:34.619 --> 00:54:36.760
come up, which I always associate with inner
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:39.239
child work because it has two little boys. It's
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:41.420
kids. It's youthful. It's like, an emotional
00:54:41.420 --> 00:54:44.000
connection to your youth. So it's so perfect.
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:46.000
When I flip that card over, it's something that's
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:48.880
like, oh, and I usually react like that. I'm
00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:52.280
like, what? Oh my gosh. People laugh at me while
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:54.820
I'm doing a reading because I'm so like, oh my
00:54:54.820 --> 00:54:57.059
gosh. And they're usually like, what? What does
00:54:57.059 --> 00:55:01.150
it mean? I won the lottery? Have you ever done
00:55:01.150 --> 00:55:03.590
a reading for a client that changed your life
00:55:03.590 --> 00:55:06.630
or your perspective? Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's so
00:55:06.630 --> 00:55:08.849
interesting. And I will say this, especially
00:55:08.849 --> 00:55:11.570
when I'm doing a Tarot for Tips event, I do once
00:55:11.570 --> 00:55:14.070
a month at the local coffee shop. I've seen your
00:55:14.070 --> 00:55:16.360
posts on that. Oh, good. Well, it's nice to know
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:19.059
that people are seeing my post. You never know
00:55:19.059 --> 00:55:21.320
with social media, but I do like to just be there
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:23.059
for a certain number of hours and people can
00:55:23.059 --> 00:55:25.900
pay me whatever. So they get a little three -card
00:55:25.900 --> 00:55:28.500
spread, like a 15, 20 minute reading for whatever
00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:31.239
they can pay. It's a great way to just get a
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:33.699
taste of it without booking a private session.
00:55:33.900 --> 00:55:37.400
So I'll be there. And if there's like a group
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:40.309
of women that have come in together, they often
00:55:40.309 --> 00:55:43.030
will get similar cards in their readings, even
00:55:43.030 --> 00:55:44.829
if they're doing it separately. And that's because
00:55:44.829 --> 00:55:47.460
their energy is so connected already. And it's
00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:51.099
also because we are also connected with the cycles
00:55:51.099 --> 00:55:55.260
and seasons. So a lot of times people, for example,
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:58.340
in the springtime, we're doing a reading, a lot
00:55:58.340 --> 00:56:00.380
of stuff will come up that are like, it's time
00:56:00.380 --> 00:56:04.219
for you to awaken and bloom and - It's newness,
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.260
it's creation, all the things. Right. So it'll
00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:09.380
kind of align with that if everybody's kind of
00:56:09.380 --> 00:56:11.860
in that same cycle. So a lot of times when someone's
00:56:11.860 --> 00:56:13.860
getting a reading, I almost feel like the reading
00:56:13.860 --> 00:56:17.130
is for me too. And I'll feel like, oh, the cards
00:56:17.130 --> 00:56:18.829
are telling you this, this is what message needs
00:56:18.829 --> 00:56:21.050
to come up. And then later I'll be like, that
00:56:21.050 --> 00:56:22.590
actually could have been a message for me too.
00:56:22.750 --> 00:56:25.789
I absolutely can benefit from that right now
00:56:25.789 --> 00:56:28.710
in my life. That's awesome. What's the strangest
00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:31.590
or funniest reaction you've gotten from a client?
00:56:31.989 --> 00:56:34.329
I mean, you said you're pretty reactive to the
00:56:34.329 --> 00:56:36.809
cards of like, oh my gosh, but is there anything
00:56:36.809 --> 00:56:39.050
that your clients like an experience that sticks
00:56:39.050 --> 00:56:42.179
out and like this client did this one time? Well,
00:56:42.179 --> 00:56:45.260
I don't claim to be a medium. I think that everybody
00:56:45.260 --> 00:56:47.539
has a little bit of mediumship capabilities.
00:56:47.739 --> 00:56:49.900
And sometimes I do have certain things come through
00:56:49.900 --> 00:56:52.320
in a Reiki session, a healing session, a message
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.719
might come through. But I don't say I'm a medium.
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:57.980
But I did have readings, maybe a few, but I'm
00:56:57.980 --> 00:57:00.960
thinking of one in particular that a card was
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.440
pulled. It was in the Mythic Goddess tarot deck
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.579
that I have. And it had a little bird in the
00:57:07.579 --> 00:57:09.940
corner of one of the cards that had like a dove
00:57:09.940 --> 00:57:11.440
or something that was flying in the corner. of
00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:13.800
the card. And for whatever reason, intuitively,
00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:17.199
I thought, do you have a friend that passed away?
00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:19.780
Was there a friend you were very close with?
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:22.019
And I was pointing at the bird. And she just
00:57:22.019 --> 00:57:24.099
started crying immediately. She's like one of
00:57:24.099 --> 00:57:26.679
my best friends who, and I think she even had
00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:28.500
an association with birds. There was something
00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:30.820
that that symbol meant something to her too.
00:57:31.099 --> 00:57:34.280
And I said, this card is coming forward because
00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:37.460
the bird is flying above and behind the subject
00:57:37.460 --> 00:57:41.239
of the card watching over you. This is her coming
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:44.739
through right now for you to say, I'm here. I'm
00:57:44.739 --> 00:57:46.960
watching over you. You're not alone in this,
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:48.340
what you're going through right now. And that
00:57:48.340 --> 00:57:50.059
was really powerful. I mean, obviously that was
00:57:50.059 --> 00:57:54.039
very emotional and the reaction was really positive,
00:57:54.340 --> 00:57:56.679
like something she really, really needed to hear.
00:57:57.039 --> 00:57:59.559
That's so cool. I love that. So you kind of told
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:01.659
us that, you know, there's hundreds of different
00:58:01.659 --> 00:58:04.039
decks out there and so many different cards and
00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:07.000
everything. Is there a single most misunderstood
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:11.199
card in these decks? It would be like a tie between
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:13.460
the devil and the death card that people are
00:58:13.460 --> 00:58:16.059
afraid of. Should people be so afraid of the
00:58:16.059 --> 00:58:18.780
death card? No. I mean, let me just say this.
00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:20.159
And this is again, going back to the difference
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:22.300
between Oracle and Tarot. There's a lot of jokes
00:58:22.300 --> 00:58:26.000
about this where Oracle is more probably going
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:28.239
to be like an affirmation deck. It's just going
00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:29.980
to be really positive and light and be like,
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:32.940
you've got this. You are light. Everything is
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:36.000
wonderful. And it's all kind of just building
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:38.630
you up and making you feel good. Taro is a little
00:58:38.630 --> 00:58:41.369
bit more like, I am going to really give you
00:58:41.369 --> 00:58:43.389
the real. It's not always going to be comfortable.
00:58:43.550 --> 00:58:45.650
We're not sugar coating. We're not fluffing.
00:58:45.789 --> 00:58:47.869
You are getting what you're getting. Exactly.
00:58:48.510 --> 00:58:50.389
So with that being said, there are cards that
00:58:50.389 --> 00:58:53.050
are not going to be comfortable. The Tower card
00:58:53.050 --> 00:58:54.829
is another one that often gets a bad rep when
00:58:54.829 --> 00:58:56.989
people know tarot a little bit better because
00:58:56.989 --> 00:59:01.949
the Tower card is a tower on fire or people jumping
00:59:01.949 --> 00:59:06.909
out of it. It's chaos. And it does mean disruption.
00:59:07.210 --> 00:59:11.210
It's that moment of life where there's an ego
00:59:11.210 --> 00:59:14.269
death oftentimes. Everything you thought you
00:59:14.269 --> 00:59:17.400
knew is going to be challenged. going to be hard.
00:59:17.630 --> 00:59:21.369
But it's absolutely necessary because you can't
00:59:21.369 --> 00:59:25.070
level up and ascend from that position of stuckness
00:59:25.070 --> 00:59:27.489
where you are without some destruction happening.
00:59:27.630 --> 00:59:29.650
There has to be a destruction of what you thought.
00:59:30.010 --> 00:59:32.769
So even in the death card, it often associates
00:59:32.769 --> 00:59:36.889
with a death or a grief in a more personal way.
00:59:36.949 --> 00:59:38.989
Like you are going through something that this
00:59:38.989 --> 00:59:43.949
has to die. This has to decompose. This has to
00:59:43.949 --> 00:59:47.599
nourish the new that's coming. Yeah, the cycle
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:51.300
has ended. It's dead. The devil card often representing
00:59:51.300 --> 00:59:54.840
vices, addictions, patterns you keep getting
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:57.969
stuck in. So it's not so light and airy. But
00:59:57.969 --> 01:00:00.170
it is important. I mean, those are the part of
01:00:00.170 --> 01:00:03.210
the messages that people need. So it's misunderstood
01:00:03.210 --> 01:00:05.769
for sure. And the hanged man is also that kind
01:00:05.769 --> 01:00:08.969
of vibe too. It's a man hanging by his foot usually.
01:00:09.110 --> 01:00:10.710
I mean, it's not usually like what we think of
01:00:10.710 --> 01:00:13.570
as a hanging man, but it's associated with Odin
01:00:13.570 --> 01:00:17.289
and the mythology of him hanging from the Yggdrasil
01:00:17.289 --> 01:00:20.409
tree. And he had to sacrifice his eye to get
01:00:20.409 --> 01:00:23.230
the wisdom of the Norns, which are the runes
01:00:23.230 --> 01:00:26.179
that they use in Nordic divination. But That
01:00:26.179 --> 01:00:29.199
story is basically the idea that you have to
01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:32.179
let go of something, you have to sacrifice something
01:00:32.179 --> 01:00:34.739
to get this next thing. So whatever is happening
01:00:34.739 --> 01:00:36.619
in their lives at that time, it's kind of like,
01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:39.380
you're going to have to let go of one rung of
01:00:39.380 --> 01:00:41.440
the ladder in order to reach for the next rung
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:43.599
of the ladder. So you said that you've been doing
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:47.059
this for years. How long would you say that it
01:00:47.059 --> 01:00:50.219
took before you felt really confident doing readings
01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:53.739
for your clients? I would say I was probably
01:00:53.739 --> 01:00:56.159
doing it for two or three years first before
01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:58.960
I even had that reading with the person that
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:01.679
I was like, oh, I could do this. I feel confident
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:04.019
now that I can do this professionally. Yeah.
01:01:04.619 --> 01:01:08.659
Okay. So we have one final question and then
01:01:08.659 --> 01:01:12.800
we want to dive into some common myths, misconceptions,
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:16.539
all the things. If someone is super interested
01:01:16.539 --> 01:01:19.800
in all that we've talked about today, how do
01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:22.019
they learn more and how would they get started?
01:01:22.269 --> 01:01:24.530
Like, where is the starting point if they want
01:01:24.530 --> 01:01:26.050
to know more? I feel like there's so much crap
01:01:26.050 --> 01:01:28.550
on the internet. Yeah. Where do you even begin?
01:01:28.829 --> 01:01:30.889
I think that Oracle cards are a great gateway.
01:01:31.050 --> 01:01:32.949
So if you're just like, this is the first time
01:01:32.949 --> 01:01:34.409
I've ever even thought about this, I'm going
01:01:34.409 --> 01:01:36.449
to just go buy an Oracle deck that looks good
01:01:36.449 --> 01:01:41.070
to me. Go look at them. Go look at the artwork
01:01:41.070 --> 01:01:44.250
and say, that feels like me, or I'm really into
01:01:44.250 --> 01:01:46.090
mermaids. So I'm going to get a mermaid Oracle
01:01:46.090 --> 01:01:49.030
deck, or something that feels personal. Because
01:01:49.030 --> 01:01:51.639
when you connect with the deck, it's infinitely
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:54.219
better than if you just kind of picked up any
01:01:54.219 --> 01:01:56.699
deck and was just trying to read it. You might
01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:58.719
not feel as connected. You might not be like,
01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:00.659
I don't know what this card means, but if you
01:02:00.659 --> 01:02:02.840
have some connection and association with it.
01:02:02.969 --> 01:02:05.570
even better. Then you start pulling a card for
01:02:05.570 --> 01:02:08.010
yourself. Just as a morning ritual, wake up in
01:02:08.010 --> 01:02:10.010
the morning and pull a card and say, this is
01:02:10.010 --> 01:02:12.409
my day or this is what I'm working on today.
01:02:12.750 --> 01:02:15.369
You just start building that slowly. I do think
01:02:15.369 --> 01:02:16.969
when you get to a point where you're like, now
01:02:16.969 --> 01:02:20.090
I'm just so interested, I need more, you look
01:02:20.090 --> 01:02:22.969
for classes. You look for people offering classes
01:02:22.969 --> 01:02:26.670
online or there's a podcast to people that I
01:02:26.670 --> 01:02:29.789
love to listen to. I'll censor the title, but
01:02:29.789 --> 01:02:33.780
it's Tarot is... cool. And it's a podcast of
01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:35.420
two people in England and they teach classes
01:02:35.420 --> 01:02:37.599
online too on like Patreon and things like that.
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.619
And I think they're great. So there's a lot of
01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:44.239
resources out there, but I would maybe just tell
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:47.619
people to be careful about the very basic like
01:02:47.619 --> 01:02:50.340
asking AI or asking something, you know, what
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:52.599
a card means and then just going with that. I
01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:54.920
feel like there's apps out there that will do
01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:56.599
a reading and then it'll tell you what the card
01:02:56.599 --> 01:02:59.059
means. But you're getting like a really cookie
01:02:59.059 --> 01:03:02.469
cutter like basic symbolism and representation
01:03:02.469 --> 01:03:04.969
of this card. That's not bad. That's a good way
01:03:04.969 --> 01:03:08.409
to start and learn the cards, but it completely
01:03:08.409 --> 01:03:11.670
almost takes away your intuition from it as well.
01:03:11.809 --> 01:03:14.570
There's just the base knowledge that you need
01:03:14.570 --> 01:03:17.349
to have, and then there's everything on top of
01:03:17.349 --> 01:03:19.510
that that you've got to practice as well. It
01:03:19.510 --> 01:03:23.050
reminds me, as we were talking earlier, introducing
01:03:23.050 --> 01:03:25.789
that bias without even realizing you're doing
01:03:25.789 --> 01:03:28.570
it. You're taking a cookie cutter piece of information.
01:03:28.730 --> 01:03:32.170
And if you take that as gospel, then you're limiting
01:03:32.170 --> 01:03:35.130
your opportunities for growth and understanding
01:03:35.130 --> 01:03:37.929
and expansion there. Yeah. And that's the beauty
01:03:37.929 --> 01:03:41.289
of going to a reader for a card reading is you
01:03:41.289 --> 01:03:43.150
can just know what the cards mean and you can
01:03:43.150 --> 01:03:45.769
get the basic like, you know, six of cups is
01:03:45.769 --> 01:03:47.369
always going to mean this one thing and there's
01:03:47.369 --> 01:03:49.969
six cups and this and that, whatever. But you're
01:03:49.969 --> 01:03:53.010
going to miss a whole element to it that only
01:03:53.010 --> 01:03:55.750
like an intuitive reader would be able to then
01:03:55.750 --> 01:03:58.860
relay that message to you. So, like Alyssa said,
01:03:59.260 --> 01:04:02.559
and especially with this topic, it was so fun
01:04:02.559 --> 01:04:06.719
to scour the internet and think of our own misconceptions
01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:09.380
or hot takes about this whole topic that we've
01:04:09.380 --> 01:04:11.739
been talking about with you today. I even asked
01:04:11.739 --> 01:04:17.039
AI for some unhinged myths or some unhinged facts
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:20.739
about tarot. So I was going to say, we gave you
01:04:20.739 --> 01:04:22.000
a little bit of a warning that we were going
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:24.639
to ask this section. And for the sake of time,
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:26.989
we'll keep it. pretty brief. I mean, if you need
01:04:26.989 --> 01:04:29.570
to give us a little bit more of an explanation
01:04:29.570 --> 01:04:31.969
or answer, that's fine. But for the most part,
01:04:31.969 --> 01:04:34.190
let's try to give true or false to most of these
01:04:34.190 --> 01:04:36.949
if we can. You want to start it off, Liz? I can.
01:04:37.070 --> 01:04:40.309
Okay. All right. Here's the big question, which
01:04:40.309 --> 01:04:42.429
popped up as soon as Tim was like, where do I
01:04:42.429 --> 01:04:46.210
buy this deck? I'm like, you can't. Is it true
01:04:46.210 --> 01:04:48.570
or false that you were not supposed to buy your
01:04:48.570 --> 01:04:51.250
own tarot deck? You can buy your own oracle cards,
01:04:51.269 --> 01:04:55.179
but not your own tarot deck. True and false.
01:04:55.659 --> 01:05:01.599
Okay, I'm sorry. No, I love it You like keep
01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:04.579
it brief. I'm like, I will do my best Well, I
01:05:04.579 --> 01:05:08.000
have met some old world tarot readers that literally
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.179
learned it from their grandmother in the old
01:05:10.179 --> 01:05:14.260
country You know from Romania and there are rules
01:05:14.260 --> 01:05:16.780
that they follow that are much more rigid and
01:05:16.780 --> 01:05:21.239
much more like you cannot touch another person's
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:24.119
deck You have to bury it in the earth and leave
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:26.579
it for the full moon. I don't think those are
01:05:26.579 --> 01:05:28.900
not true. I think it's just more nuanced than
01:05:28.900 --> 01:05:31.480
that. Some people have bought their own tarot
01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:33.619
deck and just said, I gifted this to myself.
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:38.079
And I absolutely think that counts. So my first
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:41.320
deck was gifted to me. So I felt like it applied
01:05:41.320 --> 01:05:44.719
to that. But I think everything matters only
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:47.880
if you make it matter. Everything is about intention,
01:05:48.139 --> 01:05:50.960
right? So if you're a person who thinks I can't
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:53.380
go buy my own deck I'm going to wait for it to
01:05:53.380 --> 01:05:55.480
be gifted to me because that's important to me
01:05:55.480 --> 01:05:58.340
that matters that is meaningful to me Then it
01:05:58.340 --> 01:06:01.139
matters, but I don't necessarily think it does
01:06:01.139 --> 01:06:03.360
make sense. Yeah, I like that Here's a fun one.
01:06:03.500 --> 01:06:05.860
You must cleanse your deck under a full moon
01:06:05.860 --> 01:06:08.840
You can cleanse your deck under a full moon,
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:11.039
but that's not the only way you can clean. You're
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.840
not completely necessary, right? Okay So true
01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:18.679
and false. OK, gotcha. OK. Tarot only works if
01:06:18.679 --> 01:06:23.260
you're psychic. Everybody is psychic. OK. I like
01:06:23.260 --> 01:06:25.980
it. If a card falls out while you're shuffling,
01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:29.019
it's supernaturally important or holds some significance.
01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:32.139
True. Cool. And again, it depends on the reader
01:06:32.139 --> 01:06:34.880
and how they decide to do it. Some readers read
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:37.480
reversals and some don't. So it really depends
01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:39.920
on the reader when they're shuffling, if that
01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:42.019
is meaningful to them that it came out. Yes,
01:06:42.019 --> 01:06:44.739
but I definitely subscribe to that. So like,
01:06:44.780 --> 01:06:46.820
if I'm shuffling and getting ready and a card
01:06:46.820 --> 01:06:50.039
flies out, I'm like, that card was me. What card
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:53.199
is it? If you pull the same card repeatedly,
01:06:53.500 --> 01:06:58.050
the universe is yelling at you. True. Okay. I'm
01:06:58.050 --> 01:07:02.710
being yelled at currently by my dad. You should
01:07:02.710 --> 01:07:06.409
never read tarot for yourself. False. I've never
01:07:06.409 --> 01:07:08.449
heard that. Really? Yeah. I don't know anybody
01:07:08.449 --> 01:07:10.969
that doesn't read for themselves. Uh huh. Okay.
01:07:11.190 --> 01:07:14.070
I like it. Bad readings can curse your future.
01:07:15.510 --> 01:07:18.429
I have a very complicated relationship with cursing
01:07:18.429 --> 01:07:20.610
and I have an episode of Practically Magic about
01:07:20.610 --> 01:07:23.409
just cursing if anybody is interested to go into
01:07:23.409 --> 01:07:25.829
depth with that, but - Curse holds a lot of powerful
01:07:25.829 --> 01:07:29.679
meaning. Yes. And I do think it's possible for
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:32.619
anybody at any time to curse themselves, even
01:07:32.619 --> 01:07:35.320
subconsciously. But in general, that's false.
01:07:35.579 --> 01:07:37.780
I don't think anyone should be scared. Should
01:07:37.780 --> 01:07:40.500
I say that? Yeah. Is tarot forbidden in some
01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:42.980
religions because it's inherently evil? Have
01:07:42.980 --> 01:07:45.019
you heard that or come across that belief? Oh,
01:07:45.059 --> 01:07:47.380
yeah. I definitely think there are religions
01:07:47.380 --> 01:07:49.690
that think it's evil. I mean, growing up, that
01:07:49.690 --> 01:07:52.610
was, yeah, you don't make a joke about tarot
01:07:52.610 --> 01:07:56.010
cards. The South is so superstitious. The South
01:07:56.010 --> 01:07:58.510
is very superstitious, maybe for good reason.
01:07:58.730 --> 01:08:01.130
Who knows? Yeah. And I have come across that
01:08:01.130 --> 01:08:04.369
in this area as well with Christian denominations
01:08:04.369 --> 01:08:07.489
of certain kinds. are around. It's kind of like
01:08:07.489 --> 01:08:10.050
playing cards too. You know, playing cards were
01:08:10.050 --> 01:08:11.929
something that when I was in school, like they
01:08:11.929 --> 01:08:13.590
wouldn't even let you bring playing cards to
01:08:13.590 --> 01:08:15.329
school because they associated it with gambling
01:08:15.329 --> 01:08:17.630
and they associated that with evil. And so even
01:08:17.630 --> 01:08:20.430
just face cards were evil. In my time, it was
01:08:20.430 --> 01:08:22.909
Pokemon cards. Oh my gosh. Everyone would bring
01:08:22.909 --> 01:08:24.710
them to school. Everyone was getting them taken.
01:08:25.289 --> 01:08:31.149
I didn't do it. Oh my. Tarot cards can open portals
01:08:31.149 --> 01:08:36.789
to spirits or demons. I think there are certain
01:08:36.789 --> 01:08:40.010
people who believe that and I think that there
01:08:40.010 --> 01:08:43.189
is more to that than just a simple yes or no.
01:08:43.470 --> 01:08:45.670
I don't know if I personally believe in like
01:08:45.670 --> 01:08:49.810
demon entities, but I do believe in shadow parts
01:08:49.810 --> 01:08:51.909
and we can go into the psychology of that and
01:08:51.909 --> 01:08:55.430
things like that. But opening a portal, I feel
01:08:55.430 --> 01:08:58.649
is possible. And like I said, with Ouija boards,
01:08:58.970 --> 01:09:01.310
Taro, I feel like it's important that people
01:09:01.310 --> 01:09:03.289
know how to protect themselves energetically.
01:09:03.430 --> 01:09:08.529
And so it can be true. So can the cards become
01:09:08.529 --> 01:09:11.869
haunted? I know they can get bad energy. But
01:09:11.869 --> 01:09:14.689
what about, yeah, haunted? What's the difference
01:09:14.689 --> 01:09:17.010
between a bad energy connected to something and
01:09:17.010 --> 01:09:20.510
haunted is maybe a question too, because I associate
01:09:20.510 --> 01:09:23.210
that as the same thing. I think, yeah, absolutely.
01:09:23.390 --> 01:09:25.810
But not just because it's tarot. I think that
01:09:25.810 --> 01:09:29.090
that is true of anything and everywhere. Of any
01:09:29.090 --> 01:09:33.079
energy. I do energy cleansings on people who
01:09:33.079 --> 01:09:35.840
do hair extensions when they're using real hair.
01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:38.840
They're using someone else's hair to do a hair
01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.619
extension. I would recommend getting a cleansing
01:09:41.619 --> 01:09:44.060
because you don't know what kind of energy that
01:09:44.060 --> 01:09:47.579
person had. Not that they're bad or evil or anything,
01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:49.680
but it's someone else's energy and you're putting
01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:52.239
it on your head near your crown chakra and all
01:09:52.239 --> 01:09:55.000
of that. You're inviting something. It's not
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:58.670
just a tarot. It's like Places, objects, the
01:09:58.670 --> 01:10:02.029
land that you live on, anything can have residue,
01:10:02.029 --> 01:10:05.229
I guess. Okay. How about this one? Using someone
01:10:05.229 --> 01:10:07.390
else's deck can spiritually bind you to them.
01:10:08.369 --> 01:10:10.529
I have not heard that. I wouldn't say spiritually
01:10:10.529 --> 01:10:13.810
bind, but definitely affect you. Okay. It's a
01:10:13.810 --> 01:10:15.329
good idea to cleanse your deck if you're using
01:10:15.329 --> 01:10:17.770
someone else's deck to cleanse between use. Do
01:10:17.770 --> 01:10:21.710
you think AI tarot readings are spiritually dangerous?
01:10:22.069 --> 01:10:26.050
Or could they be? They could be. I'll say that.
01:10:26.109 --> 01:10:29.149
They could be. I'm not against it. I'm not one
01:10:29.149 --> 01:10:31.729
of those that's like, AI, don't use it for anything
01:10:31.729 --> 01:10:34.029
ever, ever, ever. I'm not one of those. But I
01:10:34.029 --> 01:10:36.770
have AI on my website. I use it. But just like
01:10:36.770 --> 01:10:39.329
the way that there have been dangerous connections
01:10:39.329 --> 01:10:41.710
with AI, using it for psychological reasons,
01:10:41.890 --> 01:10:45.369
asking questions and getting answers and it being
01:10:45.369 --> 01:10:47.750
harmful to people, I think it can be the exact
01:10:47.750 --> 01:10:50.609
same thing. Do you think there's certain decks
01:10:50.609 --> 01:10:53.170
out there that can attract certain entities more
01:10:53.170 --> 01:10:56.439
than others? I think it's totally up to who uses
01:10:56.439 --> 01:10:58.920
it and what purpose they're using it for. I don't
01:10:58.920 --> 01:11:01.420
think the deck itself would have. The power is
01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:04.979
in the person, not in the deck. Do you think
01:11:04.979 --> 01:11:09.100
TikTok tarot culture is destroying real tarot
01:11:09.100 --> 01:11:12.800
practice? I think it's possible just like any
01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:15.899
tarot reader doing it on the street can be good
01:11:15.899 --> 01:11:19.159
and ethical at what they do or not. I know when
01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:21.500
I started doing TikTok tarot readings once in
01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:24.479
a while, I was kind of like, whoa, what is happening
01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:27.539
on TikTok? I don't know what the questions I
01:11:27.539 --> 01:11:29.840
was getting. I'm like, what's happening? I'm
01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:32.239
not really that connected to TikTok or familiar
01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:35.420
with it. But I have kind of scrolled around and
01:11:35.420 --> 01:11:37.239
watching other people do readings and I'm like,
01:11:37.340 --> 01:11:39.680
oh no. Some of these are really giving us a bad
01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:41.340
name. This isn't going well. I wouldn't recommend
01:11:41.340 --> 01:11:45.159
this to anyone, you know, so. Okay. Can you accidentally
01:11:45.159 --> 01:11:48.039
manifest disasters by asking the wrong questions?
01:11:49.380 --> 01:11:53.640
No. I didn't think so. All right. You might have
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:56.359
to define this. Again, we got our list of questions
01:11:56.359 --> 01:12:00.439
between all kinds of things. And our own unhinged
01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:03.539
brains. Yeah. Can some readers intentionally
01:12:03.539 --> 01:12:06.239
use cold reading techniques without admitting
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:08.989
it? What is a cold reading technique? That's
01:12:08.989 --> 01:12:11.630
kind of like an illusionist or a mentalist does
01:12:11.630 --> 01:12:13.609
when they are acting like they're reading your
01:12:13.609 --> 01:12:15.270
mind, but really they've just gotten so good
01:12:15.270 --> 01:12:18.229
at reading your physical cues and stuff, so using
01:12:18.229 --> 01:12:20.510
that in a reading. I can't say that we don't
01:12:20.510 --> 01:12:22.949
subconsciously do that just as human beings.
01:12:23.229 --> 01:12:25.270
I think we all have the ability to read people
01:12:25.270 --> 01:12:27.750
like that when we're really intuitive. You can
01:12:27.750 --> 01:12:29.649
kind of tell when you walk into a room where
01:12:29.649 --> 01:12:31.590
two people have just been in a fight with each
01:12:31.590 --> 01:12:33.579
other. and they stop fighting before you get
01:12:33.579 --> 01:12:35.699
there, but you feel it. Their body language,
01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:37.699
the feeling in the room, the energy, you can
01:12:37.699 --> 01:12:40.720
feel the tension. So I can't say that that isn't
01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:45.960
part of it in a subconscious way, but I personally
01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:50.800
don't use anything. I haven't studied that part
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:53.380
of it. Studying people and their cues and things
01:12:53.380 --> 01:12:55.000
like that and then using that in the reading.
01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:57.460
I think that would be unethical. I think it's
01:12:57.460 --> 01:13:00.800
supposed to be an intuitive divination. Divination
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:03.079
meaning it comes from divine, right? So it's
01:13:03.079 --> 01:13:06.199
being channels from a divine source. So that's
01:13:06.199 --> 01:13:10.960
my take on that. Can you believe in conventional
01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:14.699
religion, but also believe in the power of tarot?
01:13:14.960 --> 01:13:17.520
It's a good question. I mean, I think that there
01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:19.239
would be religious leaders that would tell their
01:13:19.239 --> 01:13:21.680
congregation, no, absolutely not. You cannot
01:13:21.680 --> 01:13:24.220
go anywhere but here because this is the only
01:13:24.220 --> 01:13:27.340
source connected to God that you can have. That
01:13:27.340 --> 01:13:30.079
I would question, right? Not because I'm not
01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:31.899
associated with a religion anymore, but also
01:13:31.899 --> 01:13:33.659
because I'm like, doesn't that seem a little
01:13:33.659 --> 01:13:35.520
bit like something you'd want to question? I
01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:38.180
think organized religion absolutely would. They're
01:13:38.180 --> 01:13:42.039
like, you can't believe in tarot, but also be
01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:44.840
part of a religion. Right, but it's absolutely
01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:48.239
possible. I often tell people paganism is not
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:52.010
a dogma or a religion. For me, I can be a Christian
01:13:52.010 --> 01:13:54.869
and a pagan. I can have these beliefs in one
01:13:54.869 --> 01:13:57.550
thing and another. And because I'm spiritual
01:13:57.550 --> 01:14:00.170
and these are my beliefs, I can do both. And
01:14:00.170 --> 01:14:01.930
that's not a problem for me. But I'm also not
01:14:01.930 --> 01:14:04.510
going to a church with a authority that's telling
01:14:04.510 --> 01:14:07.289
me what I can and can't do and how to connect
01:14:07.289 --> 01:14:10.850
with God in my terms. So to that I say, absolutely,
01:14:10.890 --> 01:14:13.590
you can do both. But that's up to each person's
01:14:13.590 --> 01:14:16.649
journey. That totally makes sense. I love that.
01:14:16.859 --> 01:14:21.239
But this has been so good. I feel like we have
01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:24.220
gone so deep into so many different topics and
01:14:24.220 --> 01:14:26.260
I have loved it. I feel like there's so much
01:14:26.260 --> 01:14:28.020
more to learn and we could talk for another three
01:14:28.020 --> 01:14:30.619
hours. I know I could. That's why I have a podcast.
01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:34.220
Right? We end every episode with two questions
01:14:34.220 --> 01:14:36.359
and I feel like the answers typically come out
01:14:36.359 --> 01:14:38.020
pretty similar, but I think they're a good way
01:14:38.020 --> 01:14:42.250
to kind of tie everything together. A sentence
01:14:42.250 --> 01:14:45.350
or two, or as Tim says, if you're talking to
01:14:45.350 --> 01:14:48.189
me, then it's usually three or four. Can you
01:14:48.189 --> 01:14:51.850
summarize what you believe? I believe that we
01:14:51.850 --> 01:14:55.409
are all energy. I believe that everything is
01:14:55.409 --> 01:15:00.119
energy. particles vibrating next to each other
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:04.380
in different frequencies. And so each tarot card,
01:15:04.659 --> 01:15:08.840
each crystal, every sound we hear, every plant,
01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:11.739
animal, and object also has a frequency. And
01:15:11.739 --> 01:15:14.720
so the world is really a magical place if you
01:15:14.720 --> 01:15:16.779
really think of it in those terms. It may not
01:15:16.779 --> 01:15:19.420
look like Harry Potter, but it is actually magical.
01:15:19.659 --> 01:15:23.079
And that's what I believe. I love that. I told
01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:25.979
you Harry Potter was real. I didn't argue that
01:15:25.979 --> 01:15:31.600
it was real. Alright, so our last and final question.
01:15:32.159 --> 01:15:34.800
We heard your belief. Is there anything out there
01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:37.479
that could convince you to believe the opposite
01:15:37.479 --> 01:15:40.859
way or view it? I guess very differently from
01:15:40.859 --> 01:15:44.260
what you currently do. Oh, my first thought was
01:15:44.260 --> 01:15:48.260
that if someone took me to the backstage of life
01:15:48.260 --> 01:15:50.680
of what's going on, like the matrix, like I took
01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:52.939
the pill and they're like, actually everything
01:15:52.939 --> 01:15:55.720
you thought is all being controlled and managed
01:15:55.720 --> 01:15:58.560
by this back end that you didn't know was there.
01:15:58.880 --> 01:16:02.100
And even then I would be like, see, I was right.
01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:06.930
You're like, I knew it. It still works. It still
01:16:06.930 --> 01:16:10.109
applies. It was magical. It was just being programmed
01:16:10.109 --> 01:16:13.449
in this back end. Right. I love that. Well, Courtney,
01:16:13.529 --> 01:16:16.850
thank you so much for a good episode and all
01:16:16.850 --> 01:16:20.130
of the insights that you've brought to our show.
01:16:20.350 --> 01:16:22.710
We'll definitely link Practically Magic with
01:16:22.710 --> 01:16:26.170
Courtney Pearl on our podcast and link there.
01:16:26.409 --> 01:16:29.029
Is there any other context info that you'd like
01:16:29.029 --> 01:16:30.630
to have us leaving the footnotes for everyone?
01:16:30.750 --> 01:16:35.430
Yeah. My business is Prism Healing. prism -healing
01:16:35.430 --> 01:16:38.050
.com is my website you can go to and you can
01:16:38.050 --> 01:16:41.310
book sessions there or prism healing on Instagram.
01:16:41.670 --> 01:16:44.789
It's prism underscore healing on Instagram and
01:16:44.789 --> 01:16:47.270
then TikTok. It's just at prism healing. But
01:16:47.270 --> 01:16:49.750
that's where I post content that, you know, maybe
01:16:49.750 --> 01:16:51.649
share a little peek inside what it's like in
01:16:51.649 --> 01:16:54.069
a regular old witch's life and what I do. So
01:16:54.069 --> 01:16:56.149
if you're interested in more of that, you can
01:16:56.149 --> 01:16:58.479
follow me there. All right. Well, we will let
01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:00.579
you go. But thank you so much again. This has
01:17:00.579 --> 01:17:03.180
been awesome. Yep. It's been a blast. I'm so
01:17:03.180 --> 01:17:06.100
glad we could do this. Well, everyone, that's
01:17:06.100 --> 01:17:09.579
today's episode. Now, if you're mad, intrigued,
01:17:09.979 --> 01:17:12.840
or rethinking your entire personality, then our
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:15.659
work here is done. We'll be back next time with
01:17:15.659 --> 01:17:19.539
another guest, another opinion and the same chaos.
01:17:24.060 --> 01:17:27.210
If you have a hot take, a controversial opinion
01:17:27.210 --> 01:17:29.529
or just some weird belief and a hill that you're
01:17:29.529 --> 01:17:32.430
ready to defend, send it our way. Same depth,
01:17:33.029 --> 01:17:46.449
same audacity on make me a believer. Wasn't that
01:17:46.449 --> 01:17:49.810
so fun? What a great time I had. Thank you so
01:17:49.810 --> 01:17:51.789
much. Listen, Tim, for having me on your show.
01:17:51.850 --> 01:17:55.569
Thank you for letting me release it on both of
01:17:55.569 --> 01:17:59.750
our platforms, so it's a real pod collab between
01:17:59.750 --> 01:18:02.930
the two of us. Love that. Love the podcast community
01:18:02.930 --> 01:18:07.489
for that. And I highly recommend that you go
01:18:07.489 --> 01:18:09.729
follow them. They have some amazing episodes
01:18:09.729 --> 01:18:12.329
about a lot of different topics. I noticed one
01:18:12.329 --> 01:18:14.750
of the more recent ones that came out was on
01:18:14.750 --> 01:18:17.909
natural childbirth, things that people might
01:18:17.909 --> 01:18:20.890
find controversial, and they talk about it. And
01:18:20.890 --> 01:18:24.210
I would love to know, did I make you a believer?
01:18:25.030 --> 01:18:27.750
after listening to that episode. Tell me in the
01:18:27.750 --> 01:18:29.750
comments what you thought. If you were a believer
01:18:29.750 --> 01:18:32.390
before, then it wasn't too hard to convince you.
01:18:32.630 --> 01:18:34.689
But if you were like, I've never been too sure
01:18:34.689 --> 01:18:37.489
about tarot. I always thought it was maybe a
01:18:37.489 --> 01:18:40.770
little against my religion or against my beliefs
01:18:40.770 --> 01:18:43.949
or whatever that might have, biases that might
01:18:43.949 --> 01:18:45.890
have come up for you. I would like to know what
01:18:45.890 --> 01:18:49.590
you thought. And again, thank you so much for
01:18:49.590 --> 01:18:51.989
letting me be a part of all of that. Don't forget
01:18:51.989 --> 01:18:54.350
to like and subscribe here on Practically Magic
01:18:54.350 --> 01:18:57.289
Podcast to get more information on how you can
01:18:57.289 --> 01:19:01.390
make your life magical and follow me at Prism
01:19:01.390 --> 01:19:05.289
Healing. I have both Instagram for Practically
01:19:05.289 --> 01:19:09.989
Magic Podcast and for Prism Healing, prism underscore
01:19:09.989 --> 01:19:14.569
healing or on TikTok at prism healing. So follow
01:19:14.569 --> 01:19:18.180
me in those spaces and I will. Keep providing
01:19:18.180 --> 01:19:20.859
you with more ways to make your life whimsical
01:19:20.859 --> 01:19:24.579
and magical. Go make magic, witches and wizards.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.339
Hello there, Practically Magic, magical witches
00:00:04.339 --> 00:00:09.019
and wizards. Welcome back. We are on season four.
00:00:09.179 --> 00:00:12.980
Can you believe that? We've been recording three
00:00:12.980 --> 00:00:15.880
seasons, now four seasons of Practically Magic.
00:00:16.859 --> 00:00:19.600
Amazing. I can't wait for you to see what we
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:22.620
have in store this season. So many fun new topics
00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:25.780
and hopefully some really magical guests that
00:00:25.780 --> 00:00:29.510
I'm getting on. Today we are going to watch an
00:00:29.510 --> 00:00:34.170
episode of Make Me a Believer. I was a guest
00:00:34.170 --> 00:00:38.810
on their podcast recently. We talked about tarot.
00:00:39.090 --> 00:00:42.009
So they like to take some maybe controversial
00:00:42.009 --> 00:00:45.649
or a little bit divisive subjects like tarot,
00:00:45.969 --> 00:00:50.770
is it insight or illusion? Is it evil or is it
00:00:50.770 --> 00:00:54.030
healing? You know, and see what an expert on
00:00:54.030 --> 00:00:56.850
the subject has to say. And I have to say the
00:00:56.850 --> 00:01:00.390
conversation with Liz and Tim on Make Me a Believer
00:01:00.390 --> 00:01:03.469
was one of my favorite episodes ever recorded
00:01:03.469 --> 00:01:06.730
of anything I've ever done. It was so fun to
00:01:06.730 --> 00:01:10.390
talk to them. And I loved their questions. They
00:01:10.390 --> 00:01:14.510
were great at asking the really hard questions,
00:01:14.609 --> 00:01:17.549
digging in deep and challenging my knowledge,
00:01:17.969 --> 00:01:19.989
but at the same time they were very respectful.
00:01:20.250 --> 00:01:22.189
They knew that this was my profession and they
00:01:22.189 --> 00:01:25.349
treated me like a professional. And I love that.
00:01:25.569 --> 00:01:28.730
I love that because I love when people are curious
00:01:28.730 --> 00:01:33.090
and want to know and are willing to ask and also
00:01:33.090 --> 00:01:35.969
know that this is something that you, myself,
00:01:36.230 --> 00:01:38.900
takes very seriously. So we talked a little bit
00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:42.260
about the magic, the self -discovery, how to
00:01:42.260 --> 00:01:47.579
spot a fraud, the mystical tools other than tarot
00:01:47.579 --> 00:01:51.700
that we use and could use, the science behind
00:01:51.700 --> 00:01:55.799
manifestation, and why I call all of it witchcraft,
00:01:56.859 --> 00:01:59.180
even if other people would have a problem with
00:01:59.180 --> 00:02:02.819
that word. It's all witchcraft, honey. Okay,
00:02:02.939 --> 00:02:07.739
so my favorite part of this episode. is the unhinged
00:02:07.739 --> 00:02:13.780
questions listed to her. Did her due diligence
00:02:13.780 --> 00:02:16.580
with research and looked on Reddit for some of
00:02:16.580 --> 00:02:18.780
the most unhinged terrible questions that she
00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:21.379
could find, and they were fantastic to answer.
00:02:21.979 --> 00:02:26.120
A lot of them were yes and no, and then I had
00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.879
to explain. You guys know me. I'm not one for
00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:32.860
short answers. I can't just give a yes or a no
00:02:32.860 --> 00:02:36.240
or a true or a false. So we tried, we tried,
00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:42.360
but it's kind of a long one. So without further
00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:46.199
ado, this is the episode on Make Me a Believer,
00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.800
the pod collaboration with Make Me a Believer
00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:54.280
and Practically Magic. Your ex's name continually
00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:57.080
popping up might not just be a coincidence. That
00:02:57.080 --> 00:03:00.439
weird feeling you had last Tuesday. Maybe that
00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.879
was an anxiety. Maybe the universe has receipts.
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.780
Today we're asking, can a deck of cards actually
00:03:07.780 --> 00:03:11.259
reveal your future, your patterns, and the things
00:03:11.259 --> 00:03:14.259
you're desperately trying not to see? Love it,
00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:18.340
hate it, or think it's complete nonsense. Tarot
00:03:18.340 --> 00:03:22.039
has survived centuries of skepticism, criticism,
00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.419
and controversy. Why do people keep coming back
00:03:25.419 --> 00:03:27.680
to these cards when they're searching for answers?
00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:31.219
We're exploring the psychology, the mystery,
00:03:31.460 --> 00:03:39.490
and the chaos behind tarot. Let's get into it.
00:03:45.669 --> 00:03:47.990
Welcome to Make Me a Believer, the podcast where
00:03:47.990 --> 00:03:52.330
no topic is off limits and no opinion goes unchallenged.
00:03:52.590 --> 00:03:54.750
For each of our episodes, we'll be taking on
00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:57.930
a big idea, issue, or a debate, and then we'll
00:03:57.930 --> 00:04:00.250
explore it from different sides. We'll bring
00:04:00.250 --> 00:04:02.830
the facts, the arguments, and maybe a little
00:04:02.830 --> 00:04:05.629
bit of fire. But at the end of the day, it's
00:04:05.629 --> 00:04:07.849
not about who's louder. It's about you deciding.
00:04:08.530 --> 00:04:10.650
What do you believe in? Because if you stand
00:04:10.650 --> 00:04:18.689
for nothing, what will you fall for? So welcome
00:04:18.689 --> 00:04:21.189
back to the podcast listeners. Today we have
00:04:21.189 --> 00:04:24.930
a very awesome guest joining us. She is a practicing
00:04:24.930 --> 00:04:28.209
witch with a passion for tarot and helping people
00:04:28.209 --> 00:04:30.360
connect with their intuition. We're going to
00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.079
dive into the fascinating world of tarot cards,
00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:35.639
explore what they can teach us, and clear up
00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:38.420
some common misconceptions along the way. Please
00:04:38.420 --> 00:04:40.819
join us in welcoming our guest Courtney to the
00:04:40.819 --> 00:04:43.699
show. Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to
00:04:43.699 --> 00:04:46.379
be here. Yeah, we are so happy to have you. Absolutely.
00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.839
Courtney, for all of our listeners, can you introduce
00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:53.300
yourself and very briefly tell us what you believe?
00:04:53.470 --> 00:04:57.290
and what it is you do? Yes, I am a practicing
00:04:57.290 --> 00:05:00.250
witch. However, a lot of people jump straight
00:05:00.250 --> 00:05:02.910
to Wicca as the definition of witch. So they're
00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:04.990
like, oh, you're Wiccan. No, I'm not actually
00:05:04.990 --> 00:05:07.189
Wiccan. There are plenty of people who practice
00:05:07.189 --> 00:05:10.649
Wicca as witchcraft, but I myself am just a pagan
00:05:10.649 --> 00:05:15.029
Celtic witch. So I do a lot of research in Celtic
00:05:15.029 --> 00:05:19.339
mythology, magic, and healing work. actually,
00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:21.600
more than anything. I do a lot of energy healing
00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:25.300
work with reiki, honey, energy healing. So tarot
00:05:25.300 --> 00:05:28.139
is part of a healing practice for me. And that's
00:05:28.139 --> 00:05:31.339
how I got started doing it is it's just a really
00:05:31.339 --> 00:05:34.160
great tool to use for clarification sometimes
00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.579
and to kind of dip your toe into answering some
00:05:37.579 --> 00:05:40.639
questions that my clients might have. So I offer
00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:43.000
it. as an option. And there's a lot of different
00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:44.759
ways to practice witchcraft. So everything that
00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.639
I say today is kind of gospel according to Courtney,
00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:49.920
but I believe a lot of it really depends on the
00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:52.379
person and their intention behind what they do
00:05:52.379 --> 00:05:54.779
and what their practice is. And my belief system
00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:57.000
is basically everybody's a witch. They just don't
00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.439
know it yet. A bold statement. I love it. A bold
00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:03.519
statement. I'm coming right at you. Right? When
00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:06.079
we chatted originally about having you on the
00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:08.300
show, I was so fascinated because you were like,
00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:11.800
I am this. And forgive me, I don't remember the
00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:13.519
title you gave yourself, but I was like, holy
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.540
cow, what does this mean? What does she do? I
00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:19.379
remember the word priestess. Yeah. Fill us in.
00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.279
What are your official titles? And can you define
00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:25.019
those for us, for those of us like me who have
00:06:25.019 --> 00:06:26.819
no idea what we're talking about? We're ignorant.
00:06:27.819 --> 00:06:30.399
And the list of titles could go on forever because
00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:33.920
there is no degree that I know of that you can
00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:37.129
get. claiming the title of priestess took me
00:06:37.129 --> 00:06:39.750
some time because I felt that it was something
00:06:39.750 --> 00:06:41.870
that I took very seriously and didn't want to
00:06:41.870 --> 00:06:45.009
just jump into this world and say, well, I'm
00:06:45.009 --> 00:06:47.889
a priestess. But I do also think that it is a
00:06:47.889 --> 00:06:52.449
title that implies service rather than a hierarchy
00:06:52.449 --> 00:06:56.500
of authority of some kind. to go through certain
00:06:56.500 --> 00:06:59.000
initiation processes where I felt these were
00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.300
the things I needed to do, taking a priestess
00:07:01.300 --> 00:07:04.399
course with someone I felt was reputable and
00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:06.399
not just selling you an online course on the
00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.100
internet. But just going through those processes,
00:07:09.379 --> 00:07:11.680
I traveled and did a sacred sites pilgrimage
00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:14.800
in England where I went to Glastonbury and Cornwall
00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.779
and Wales and of course did a sunrise ceremony
00:07:17.779 --> 00:07:19.819
at Stonehenge. There were certain things that
00:07:19.819 --> 00:07:23.180
I felt were in my process of becoming a priestess.
00:07:23.850 --> 00:07:26.949
I call myself Celtic priestess because I apply
00:07:26.949 --> 00:07:29.589
a lot of the Celtic mythology and culture and
00:07:29.589 --> 00:07:33.009
things to what I do. Abalonian priestess is another
00:07:33.009 --> 00:07:36.269
term more specifically. But there's also the
00:07:36.269 --> 00:07:39.310
title of witch, which I believe is, again, everybody
00:07:39.310 --> 00:07:41.430
is a little bit of a witch. It just means someone
00:07:41.430 --> 00:07:43.990
who's in control of what they're doing and in
00:07:43.990 --> 00:07:47.230
their practice. But my favorite is the Welsh
00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:49.689
term swinrig. That might've been the one I used.
00:07:49.889 --> 00:07:53.139
I can't remember. I say a lot of things. Swinreig
00:07:53.139 --> 00:07:55.740
is just kind of that cunning woman or either
00:07:55.740 --> 00:07:58.139
the person that has some wisdom and knowledge,
00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:02.600
maybe ancestral, that can apply to healing and
00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:05.040
helping people. So I like those terms a little
00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.759
bit better than healer. I do energy healing work,
00:08:08.180 --> 00:08:11.240
but I facilitate healing, meaning that I empower
00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.579
people in their work in and of themselves or
00:08:13.579 --> 00:08:15.259
inner work. But to say the healer is my idea.
00:08:15.259 --> 00:08:17.800
You don't necessarily do it yourself. That makes
00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:21.939
sense. Okay, so I do want to take a step back
00:08:21.939 --> 00:08:25.000
and kind of define a couple things for our listeners.
00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:29.579
As far as tarot, witch... We kind of defined
00:08:29.579 --> 00:08:31.459
what a witch is. Yeah, we kind of defined what
00:08:31.459 --> 00:08:34.220
a witch is. And you as a healer, I also thought
00:08:34.220 --> 00:08:36.860
about Aragon and like the healers that are literally
00:08:36.860 --> 00:08:40.399
healing people. It's not that, it's helping people...
00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:43.440
find the power in themselves to heal. Right.
00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.159
Yeah. And I use the definition, so this is not
00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:49.120
mine. A guest speaker I had one time, she used
00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:51.440
this term and I've repeated it many times. Healing
00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:54.419
is not fixing. It's not fixing something that's
00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:58.120
broken. It means witnessing. So in doing healing
00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.399
work, you're not looking inward or looking at
00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.879
yourself. And by the way, this can be both emotional
00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:06.500
and physical healing, but it's witnessing what
00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:08.360
is happening, what's going on, and what are all
00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:11.570
the connections to your energy, your emotions,
00:09:11.769 --> 00:09:14.350
your ancestral work. I mean, inner child work.
00:09:14.529 --> 00:09:16.830
We could go on and on and on, but it's witnessing
00:09:16.830 --> 00:09:19.690
that, right? Right. I love that. So you talk
00:09:19.690 --> 00:09:23.090
about healing a lot in regards to tarot. So does
00:09:23.090 --> 00:09:27.070
it have anything to do with the more common perception
00:09:27.070 --> 00:09:30.009
that people have out there as far as does it
00:09:30.009 --> 00:09:32.429
have anything to do with fortune telling or predicting
00:09:32.429 --> 00:09:35.210
the future? Or is it mostly just helping people
00:09:35.210 --> 00:09:38.490
think differently? about their past or their
00:09:38.490 --> 00:09:41.809
present, and like you said, kind of helping them
00:09:41.809 --> 00:09:44.610
with their healing process. I think it's a little
00:09:44.610 --> 00:09:47.129
bit of both, but when it comes to fortune telling,
00:09:47.590 --> 00:09:50.490
I shy away from that term a little bit more because
00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:52.629
it gives people different connotation of what
00:09:52.629 --> 00:09:56.070
they're coming into. And a lot of really credible
00:09:56.070 --> 00:10:00.370
readers, like I hope that I am, if I can put
00:10:00.370 --> 00:10:03.610
myself in that category, I often tell people
00:10:03.610 --> 00:10:07.159
in every possible way that I can is if you're
00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.700
going to a reader and they're like, I'm a fortune
00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:12.539
teller, I, you know, kind of treating it almost
00:10:12.539 --> 00:10:16.259
as a party trick. That can be a red flag, I think.
00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:18.220
So when someone has said to me like, Oh, Courtney
00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:22.340
is a fortune teller. I go, I'm a tarot reader
00:10:22.340 --> 00:10:25.419
and there is some fortune reading in that, but
00:10:25.419 --> 00:10:28.220
even the way that I do it is more so healing,
00:10:28.220 --> 00:10:31.019
right? But I tell people like shy away from people
00:10:31.019 --> 00:10:32.980
that are using the cards or reading the cards
00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:35.340
to tell you how you should live your life. If
00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:38.399
it's shooting all over you, it probably isn't
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:42.139
going to be. higher vibrational frequency. It
00:10:42.139 --> 00:10:43.940
isn't going to be aligned with what you need.
00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:46.559
And a lot of people are looking for that. So
00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:48.759
desperately, it's almost taking advantage, right?
00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:50.500
Because somebody might be sitting down at your
00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:53.120
table going, should I take this job or that job?
00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:55.500
Should I stay with my husband or not? Should
00:10:55.500 --> 00:10:59.480
I? And you're just like, that's not my job. It's
00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:01.480
not my job or the cards to tell you those things.
00:11:01.659 --> 00:11:04.200
So you're not a lucky eight ball? I know, right?
00:11:04.669 --> 00:11:07.090
You might as well actually use the magic eight
00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:08.789
ball instead of... Well, we'll never call you
00:11:08.789 --> 00:11:10.990
fortune teller. Don't worry. Right. But I was
00:11:10.990 --> 00:11:12.870
going to say there is something called the Orleg
00:11:12.870 --> 00:11:15.450
and the Vird in the Nordic mythology, which is
00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:19.590
the idea that you are handed cards as your fate
00:11:19.590 --> 00:11:21.990
or your destiny, right? You can't change them.
00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:24.870
They're the cards you are given. But the Vird
00:11:24.870 --> 00:11:28.029
is how you play the cards can be very different.
00:11:28.090 --> 00:11:30.110
And there's an infinite combinations of something
00:11:30.110 --> 00:11:32.570
that you could play. So there is something...
00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:34.620
fate and destiny about it. And the cards might
00:11:34.620 --> 00:11:36.820
tell you what's coming up. What do you need to
00:11:36.820 --> 00:11:38.919
know about what's coming up? But that doesn't
00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.259
mean this is going to happen to you and this
00:11:41.259 --> 00:11:43.980
is the way it is. It might be like, this is going
00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:46.799
to give you some choice on how you choose to
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.779
handle it. Right? Yeah, that totally makes sense.
00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:54.379
So in our immense preparation for this episode,
00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.320
because again, we are so, I don't know. I grew
00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:00.940
up in South Georgia. I could not wear, I remember
00:12:00.940 --> 00:12:03.720
getting in trouble. I vividly remember it was
00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:06.220
the only time in elementary school that I ever
00:12:06.220 --> 00:12:08.600
got in the principal's office and was in trouble.
00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:10.740
Uh huh. I'm sure you were there every week. Oh
00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:14.120
my, no. I got sent to the principal's office
00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.960
and had to call my grandmother to pick me up
00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:18.960
and take me to change clothes because I wore
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.480
a Scooby Doo shirt to school. And they said Scooby
00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.299
-Doo was witchcraft. So I could not have a Scooby
00:12:26.299 --> 00:12:28.639
-Doo shirt. And I was like that weirdo kid who's
00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:32.220
like Scooby -Doo 24 -7. That's what I wanted.
00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:36.220
And I mean, I did not read the Harry Potter books
00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:40.399
until I was a grown adult. Meaning like two years
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.299
ago. Not even like a year ago is when you started
00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:45.759
reading them to me because I was pregnant. Do
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.620
you consider yourself a grown adult? No, not
00:12:48.620 --> 00:12:51.620
really, but you get what I'm saying. I had not
00:12:51.620 --> 00:12:54.580
seen the movies, I had not read the books, anything
00:12:54.580 --> 00:12:56.519
growing up as a kid. And now I'm like, oh my
00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:58.500
gosh, I'm such a Potterhead. It was almost a
00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:01.019
deal breaker when I first met her. Yeah. What
00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:03.879
listeners can't see is that Tim has a full sleeve,
00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:07.299
one arm, like, wrist, bones to shoulder, and
00:13:07.299 --> 00:13:10.500
it's all Harry Potter. So, like, the man is obsessed.
00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:12.559
But no faces. I hate... I don't like big tattoos.
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.519
Yeah, he doesn't have any face. It's actually
00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:17.419
a really, really awesome tattoo. But he is a
00:13:17.419 --> 00:13:19.700
total, like, Harry Potter. And I know it's not
00:13:19.700 --> 00:13:21.759
the same witch. I'm kind of going off on a tangent
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:26.539
here. But Witchcraft was such a don't ask, don't
00:13:26.539 --> 00:13:29.539
tell, don't acknowledge it. You are a horrible
00:13:29.539 --> 00:13:32.080
person for even thinking about it type of thing
00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.279
when I was growing up So for me, I never had
00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.840
that exposure as an adult. I've had a lot more
00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:41.120
like energy healing and like hypnotherapy stuff
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:44.440
and things like that, but still not a ton of
00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:47.899
Exposure to witchcraft. And so when you introduced
00:13:47.899 --> 00:13:49.700
yourself when we're talking about being on the
00:13:49.700 --> 00:13:51.799
show, I was like, oh, this is cool. So then I
00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:53.840
went and listened to several episodes of your
00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:56.059
podcast, and I meant to mention that earlier.
00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:58.919
It's Practically Magic, correct? Practically
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.559
Magic. Yep. Practical Magic is one of my favorite
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.720
movies. So it was a nod to that, but also trying
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.519
to show that things that we considered everyday,
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.980
natural, normal things are Practically Magic.
00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.080
Yeah. Witchcraft in general is just a topic that
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.909
was never even in my purview. And Tim, I feel
00:14:16.909 --> 00:14:19.389
like growing up in Utah, very similar situation.
00:14:19.750 --> 00:14:22.889
Yes, you see the like magical happiness of Harry
00:14:22.889 --> 00:14:25.470
Potter and things like that. But you're not exposed
00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:27.990
in Utah culture. And I feel like in Utah, it's
00:14:27.990 --> 00:14:30.590
very unique. That's why I say Utah. You're not
00:14:30.590 --> 00:14:33.909
exposed to this very often. And so we did a ton
00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:35.950
of research. So I don't know what any of these
00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:38.830
things are. And I've talked a lot now. So sorry
00:14:38.830 --> 00:14:42.070
for the like 15 minute backstory on why I'm asking
00:14:42.070 --> 00:14:46.039
this question. But can you tell us and kind of
00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.899
explain for the listeners, can you differentiate
00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:54.159
tarot and oracle cards, astrology, psychic readings?
00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:56.840
All those different things. All of those mediumship.
00:14:57.019 --> 00:14:58.940
Yeah, all of these different things. Tell us
00:14:58.940 --> 00:15:01.600
about that. Oh, my goodness. Oh, yes. So many
00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.179
things. Well, I'll try to bundle it and be brief.
00:15:04.460 --> 00:15:07.179
And astrology, I am only just dipping my toe
00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:10.120
into. I mean, it's the whole language, like really
00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:12.179
to dive in deep into it. But if you kind of know
00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:14.059
a little bit and you know your sun, your moon,
00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:16.200
and your rising sign, you can really tell a lot
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.960
about yourself just in that. And so yeah, the
00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:21.720
tarot, a lot of people have associated a lot
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:24.940
of astrology to it. Like certain cards have a
00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:28.000
sign or a planet associated with it. So that's
00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:31.860
integrated into part of the reading. I haven't
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:34.480
done them myself, but I have had a reading where
00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:38.080
someone did a full astrology like your year looking
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:41.779
ahead as an astrology spread, pulling cards for
00:15:41.779 --> 00:15:45.519
each phase of the next year. There is a lot of
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.179
integration, threads in all directions with that.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.820
But to give you a basic getting started with
00:15:52.820 --> 00:15:56.029
reading cards and divination, Oracle decks, I
00:15:56.029 --> 00:15:59.029
kind of think of as the gateway because Oracle
00:15:59.029 --> 00:16:00.970
cards, you can pick up a deck of Oracle cards
00:16:00.970 --> 00:16:03.529
just about any metaphysical shop or anywhere
00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:08.009
that you find them. And they are simply a deck
00:16:08.009 --> 00:16:11.110
of cards, whatever number, each card representing
00:16:11.110 --> 00:16:13.590
a different thing. And it usually has a guidebook.
00:16:13.730 --> 00:16:16.210
So it can be whatever the writer or illustrator
00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:18.620
of the deck. chose to have each card have its
00:16:18.620 --> 00:16:21.360
own meaning. Sometimes there's words or phrases
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.620
on the card itself. I mean, there are themes
00:16:24.620 --> 00:16:27.299
out there, like infinite number of Oracle card
00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:29.480
themes you can get. So it can be associated with
00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:32.259
the moon cycles. It can be just about anything.
00:16:32.419 --> 00:16:34.779
So are these almost like the gift somebody sent
00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:37.059
me? It was funny. She was on vacation. She's
00:16:37.059 --> 00:16:38.620
like, I found this thing when I was shopping
00:16:38.620 --> 00:16:40.039
and I thought of you. And it's like a little
00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.220
deck of cards. a bunch of explicit words, but
00:16:43.220 --> 00:16:45.860
it's basically like my beep beep beep beep beep
00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:47.960
deck of affirmations or something like that.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.019
And it's all like, you're great because blah,
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.159
blah, blah. And you like are supposed to pull
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.120
a card every day and then read the guidebook
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:56.899
and everything else that goes with it. would
00:16:56.899 --> 00:16:59.220
that be an Oracle card? Okay. That could be,
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.120
I mean, and that's just as basic, you know, you're
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.480
going to get a good feeling from whatever card
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:06.599
you pull that day. And that's what it's for,
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.940
right? It's an affirmation for today, but it
00:17:08.940 --> 00:17:11.539
also could, that's exactly how you use an Oracle
00:17:11.539 --> 00:17:14.779
deck as well. So it's the same thing. In fact,
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:16.900
one of the ways that I teach intuition, when
00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:18.880
I'm just starting out with someone and I'm like,
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:20.539
you just want to kind of develop your intuition
00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:25.480
and reading cards. I pull a deck of Dixit cards
00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:28.160
from the board game Dixit. It's a storytelling
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.579
game. It does not have a guidebook because it's
00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:32.539
not an oracle deck. Don't we have this board
00:17:32.539 --> 00:17:35.000
game? What is it called? Dixit, like D -I -X
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.380
-I -T. I think we have it. I got it for you for
00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:39.859
Christmas. I don't know. And they're really like.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.039
fun, artistic, weird -looking pictures in it.
00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:47.440
This one is a guy walking across a piano with
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:49.119
different pictures on it. This is actually the
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:51.200
Disney Dixit, so this is from the movie Soul.
00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:54.660
I bought the Disney one because this is my favorite
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.819
one to read from. But it's just kind of a little
00:17:56.819 --> 00:18:00.619
bit weird and odd, like a giant ant eating pancakes
00:18:00.619 --> 00:18:03.140
or something on it or something like that. I
00:18:03.140 --> 00:18:04.880
tell people there's no guidebook that goes with
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.420
these. So it literally is just whatever you pull,
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:12.200
what feeling or message or what do you feel like
00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:15.059
it's bringing for you today? And that is right.
00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:17.819
It's correct. Whatever it is, is what it's meant
00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:20.160
to be. So Oracle decks are really great for people
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.039
just starting out who don't really have the time
00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.619
or want to study. They just want to pull a card
00:18:24.619 --> 00:18:27.440
and get a meaning from it that day. And your
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:29.119
question might be, how's my day going to go today?
00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:32.039
Or what do I need to focus on today? Or whatever
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.099
it is, and then you assert some meaning from
00:18:34.099 --> 00:18:37.640
it. I actually think that your own meaning before
00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.079
you even read the guidebook is more powerful
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.980
and more important than the guidebook. So I often
00:18:42.980 --> 00:18:44.920
recommend, yeah, use the guidebook if you're
00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.359
learning and you want to know what the author
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.839
wanted that card to mean. But eventually, I suggest
00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:53.039
you just throw out the guidebook altogether or
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:56.180
put it away because your meaning matters more
00:18:56.180 --> 00:18:58.440
and to do it that way. I would cheat and I'd
00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:01.000
always want to turn it into something way better
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.319
than what it actually is and being honest. Well,
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.339
why not? That's a perfect way to do it, right?
00:19:06.579 --> 00:19:09.559
Don't you want your day to go well? I also feel
00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:12.319
like reading the guidebook is almost letting
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.599
the author decide how your day goes or what you
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.079
think about your day. Like you're introducing
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.420
your own bias by saying, hey, what is somebody
00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:22.700
else's opinion of this? What is somebody else's
00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.460
meaning behind this? And yeah, okay. I mean,
00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:28.730
I bought an Oracle deck early in my journey,
00:19:28.730 --> 00:19:31.130
where I bought a goddess deck. But that was because
00:19:31.130 --> 00:19:34.190
I was super into mythology and I wasn't as familiar
00:19:34.190 --> 00:19:36.410
with goddesses and the different traditions.
00:19:36.869 --> 00:19:39.009
And so I used it as a learning tool. I was like,
00:19:39.170 --> 00:19:41.089
I want to pull a goddess every day and then I
00:19:41.089 --> 00:19:43.490
want to read up on her and find out more about
00:19:43.490 --> 00:19:45.769
her, who she is and what she represents and what
00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.470
she's connected to. So that I think is a great
00:19:48.470 --> 00:19:50.390
way to learn things if you want to use a guidebook
00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:53.769
that way. But as to your point, Tim, it's like...
00:19:53.450 --> 00:19:56.569
Why not give it your own meaning? And that, by
00:19:56.569 --> 00:20:00.109
the way, to me is a spell. What you described
00:20:00.109 --> 00:20:02.890
as like, I'm going to pull a card and then I'm
00:20:02.890 --> 00:20:04.509
going to make that card mean something great
00:20:04.509 --> 00:20:08.410
for my day. That's a spell. You're putting intention
00:20:08.410 --> 00:20:10.490
behind a ritual and you're saying this is what
00:20:10.490 --> 00:20:14.529
I want my day to be. I love that. So my next
00:20:14.529 --> 00:20:18.369
question, I was hoping to sound like I knew things
00:20:18.369 --> 00:20:20.640
and I was smart. Then I realized I can't even
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.259
pronounce one of the words. So I looked this
00:20:23.259 --> 00:20:25.700
up and I cheated, but it said standard tarot
00:20:25.700 --> 00:20:29.720
decks usually have 22 major and 56 minor. Is
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:31.900
it arcana? How do you say that word? Arcana.
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.440
Arcana. Can you explain what arcana means and
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.500
why that matters? Yeah. So this is getting into
00:20:38.500 --> 00:20:40.539
the difference between the oracle and the tarot.
00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:42.759
This is a perfect follow -up question because
00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:47.029
the tarot does have a much more complex system
00:20:47.029 --> 00:20:49.670
behind it. It started out as a game, like playing
00:20:49.670 --> 00:20:52.549
cards. So it has four suits and then the major
00:20:52.549 --> 00:20:55.009
arcana, like you mentioned. And so the major
00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:58.130
arcana are kind of like archetypes. That's where
00:20:58.130 --> 00:20:59.990
you get the cards that people often associate
00:20:59.990 --> 00:21:03.990
with tarot, like the death card, the devil card,
00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:07.869
the lover's card. the high priestess, the empress,
00:21:07.970 --> 00:21:10.250
the emperor. There's a whole gambit and they
00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:13.809
kind of tell a story. So the first one, the card
00:21:13.809 --> 00:21:16.529
zero, and there's a lot of numerology connected
00:21:16.529 --> 00:21:18.769
as well because there's numbers and symbols on
00:21:18.769 --> 00:21:21.750
each card. The first card is the fool. So it's
00:21:21.750 --> 00:21:23.829
kind of like telling the story of the fool's
00:21:23.829 --> 00:21:26.890
journey of how the fool becomes the magician.
00:21:27.349 --> 00:21:29.430
That's card number one. And, you know, starts
00:21:29.430 --> 00:21:32.809
out on this journey of self enlightenment and
00:21:32.809 --> 00:21:36.450
goes through a series of trials and temptations.
00:21:36.650 --> 00:21:39.750
That's where the devil card comes in. I never
00:21:39.750 --> 00:21:42.910
had any idea that that's really cool. Yeah, it
00:21:42.910 --> 00:21:44.650
can be really cool. And the combinations are
00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:48.750
endless. I mean, it's like 4 .5 quadrillion.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:51.339
different combinations. You could have a Celtic
00:21:51.339 --> 00:21:55.880
cross spread. Readers have to know all of these
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:58.059
different combinations and symbols. It's really
00:21:58.059 --> 00:22:01.740
a study. It really is a language. Not to say
00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:03.480
you can't just pick up a tarot deck and read
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:05.380
it intuitively like you would an oracle deck,
00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:07.220
but for most people, if they're just starting
00:22:07.220 --> 00:22:10.119
out and they start with tarot, It could be overwhelming.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.500
I suggest taking classes. I suggest for people
00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:17.460
who really want to get into it, they would really
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:20.779
take the time to practice, really knowing all
00:22:20.779 --> 00:22:24.259
of that. There's so much symbolism in every card.
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.299
The basic Rider -Waite -Smith deck, which is
00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:30.119
kind of the first published tarot deck, Smith
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.279
being the illustrator who made those original
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:34.660
pictures. That's usually what people study first
00:22:34.660 --> 00:22:37.940
because there's just every animal, every flower,
00:22:38.299 --> 00:22:41.259
every color, everything means something. And
00:22:41.259 --> 00:22:43.299
then, of course, there have been millions of
00:22:43.299 --> 00:22:45.559
variations and you can get like a Nightmare Before
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:47.539
Christmas tarot deck or you can get a Golden
00:22:47.539 --> 00:22:51.200
Girls tarot deck now. So yeah, that answers your
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.960
question. Do you see it as something that's spiritual,
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.960
psychological, intuitive or artistic or is it
00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:02.509
kind of a combination? Or none of those. Or none
00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:05.089
of those. Absolutely a combination of those things.
00:23:05.809 --> 00:23:08.650
I was just recently reached out to by a psychologist
00:23:08.650 --> 00:23:11.549
who was like, I want to incorporate tarot readings
00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:14.470
in my practice, but I don't know how. I don't
00:23:14.470 --> 00:23:16.450
know what that would look like or how we would
00:23:16.450 --> 00:23:18.529
do that. And I said, there's a lot of spiritual
00:23:18.529 --> 00:23:21.470
psychoanalysts that are using more of these sort
00:23:21.470 --> 00:23:24.069
of mystical tools and healing tool and energy
00:23:24.069 --> 00:23:27.630
healing in their practice. So I think absolutely
00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:30.589
it can be psychological. I myself use honey.
00:23:31.049 --> 00:23:33.950
energy healing, which is it's not honey as in
00:23:33.950 --> 00:23:37.069
like, honey that you eat. Honey in Welsh means
00:23:37.069 --> 00:23:40.630
energy. So the great work by Tiffany Lasik is
00:23:40.630 --> 00:23:44.210
where I studied from her. She's a psychoanalyst
00:23:44.210 --> 00:23:47.990
who incorporated the wheel of the year, meaning
00:23:47.990 --> 00:23:50.519
all of the different phases of the year. and
00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:52.960
there are tarot associations to each of the Wheel
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.880
of the Year as well. She also associates it with
00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.660
Erikson's developmental stages. There's psychological
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.980
connections into everything there. It's alchemical,
00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:08.960
meaning transformation in the soul to its higher
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:13.680
self. It is spiritual and it can also be really
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.559
lighthearted. Especially tarot, I think a lot
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:19.819
of people can do a tarot reading just on the
00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:23.099
most superficial level, something just fun. I
00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:24.839
did a reading once, one of my favorite readings
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:27.660
ever, where we were just having fun and the girl
00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:31.299
was like, why do I like spicy novels so much?
00:24:32.859 --> 00:24:35.240
Spicy romantic novels. And she goes, why do I
00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:38.000
like it so much? And we started pulling cards
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.420
and it was the funniest thing I'd ever seen.
00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:44.740
There was like five of wands, which is just like
00:24:44.740 --> 00:24:47.710
five guys chasing each other with sticks. You
00:24:47.710 --> 00:24:49.869
can kind of... It sounds like a romantic novel.
00:24:50.190 --> 00:24:54.390
Yeah. Welcome to the ritual. I'm like, well,
00:24:54.410 --> 00:24:57.170
you know, so far you haven't had anybody who
00:24:57.170 --> 00:24:59.289
knew what he was doing with his stick or whatever.
00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:02.109
We can't even get into it. And then the King
00:25:02.109 --> 00:25:05.890
of Swords came up and I was like, oh, I mean...
00:25:05.890 --> 00:25:08.470
This guy knows what he's doing. He knows what
00:25:08.470 --> 00:25:10.230
to do with a sword. He knows what he's doing.
00:25:10.369 --> 00:25:14.069
Yeah. So it was absolutely just kind of fun and
00:25:14.069 --> 00:25:16.150
lighthearted. And it doesn't have to be so deep,
00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:19.130
right? Okay. I love that. So what is the term
00:25:19.130 --> 00:25:20.849
that you give to a person that's having their
00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:23.490
cards read? Is it called a queer end? Yes. I
00:25:23.490 --> 00:25:25.650
don't usually use that term, but that is technically
00:25:25.650 --> 00:25:28.650
the term. Okay. I use clients because they're
00:25:28.650 --> 00:25:31.650
healing clients in any capacity that they come
00:25:31.650 --> 00:25:33.630
to see me for energy work or anything else. So
00:25:33.630 --> 00:25:35.789
I just say, Oh, it's a client of mine. Okay,
00:25:35.990 --> 00:25:39.089
perfect. So my question for you is, I'm sure
00:25:39.089 --> 00:25:42.569
there's more people out there that are than probably
00:25:42.569 --> 00:25:45.750
aren't that are skeptical of tarot and everything
00:25:45.750 --> 00:25:50.869
that you do. So do you need to necessarily believe
00:25:50.869 --> 00:25:55.650
in the tarot to have it be helpful or can anyone
00:25:55.650 --> 00:25:58.890
have it? You know, I guess, can it make you a
00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:00.769
believer? Yeah, I guess it'd be hard because
00:26:00.769 --> 00:26:02.829
you know, they already go in with a mindset of
00:26:02.829 --> 00:26:05.960
this is all cuckoo bananas and whatever, but.
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.319
Woo woo. Yeah. Woo woo. So, I mean, do you get
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:11.799
my question? Do you have to be a. Do you have
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:14.319
to believe in it? Yeah. For it to work. Yeah.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.019
I don't think so. I don't think you have to believe
00:26:17.019 --> 00:26:19.559
in it. I think that there is. In anything that
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:22.720
I do, there is sort of a consent of the higher
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.779
self that has to be there in some form or another.
00:26:25.940 --> 00:26:29.079
I don't just read people that don't want to be
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:30.980
read, but it's interesting. You should grab somebody
00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:32.920
and walk them by in a coffee shop and be like,
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:37.160
excuse me, I flipped a card for you. Just like
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:40.500
I think mediumship as well, or anyone who does
00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:42.700
psychic ability, things like that. There is sort
00:26:42.700 --> 00:26:45.579
of an ethical practice about it. There is some
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:47.539
And this is going off on a tangent a little bit,
00:26:47.660 --> 00:26:50.619
but there's some debate in the woo woo world
00:26:50.619 --> 00:26:53.660
that someone like Teresa Caputo, who does the
00:26:53.660 --> 00:26:55.720
Long Island medium, people may have watched her
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:58.480
show. The TV show. Yes. And the way that she
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:00.319
stops people in the street and starts reading
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:02.539
them. there's some question about whether or
00:27:02.539 --> 00:27:04.240
not that's ethical. And she's just like, well,
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:05.740
I'm just trying to help people. And I know that
00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:07.279
there's a message you need to get. I don't think
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:09.140
there's any question of this that's ethical.
00:27:09.460 --> 00:27:11.839
I say absolutely not. Yeah. I mean, there should
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.660
be some like, is it okay if I get a message from
00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.259
someone who's departed? That would be more appropriate.
00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:21.980
I work in the laboratory sciences field and I'm
00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:24.480
finishing my doctorate right now and it reminds
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:27.559
me of the ethical questions around genetic research
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.720
and basically like just because we can tell someone
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.140
they have this, is it ethical to do so? And so
00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:36.160
I had to navigate a lot of that with my project
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.740
on at what point are you giving people information
00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:43.720
that they can't act on or is going to unreasonably
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:46.960
scare them when really what your result is telling
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.440
them is that they have a 1 % higher likelihood
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.549
of XYZ. Is it okay that you tell them that? And
00:27:52.549 --> 00:27:54.509
navigating all of those things, I think it's
00:27:54.509 --> 00:27:56.930
the same thing. It's that informed consent. Hey,
00:27:56.930 --> 00:27:59.069
I have a message for you from someone that's
00:27:59.069 --> 00:28:02.609
departed. Can I give it to you? No? Okay, bye.
00:28:03.049 --> 00:28:06.210
Sorry, can't tell them. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.
00:28:06.230 --> 00:28:08.809
But if they sit down and they're like, I don't
00:28:08.809 --> 00:28:10.930
believe in this at all. I'm going to sit and
00:28:10.930 --> 00:28:12.789
get a reading. You have to assume that they're
00:28:12.789 --> 00:28:14.349
at least open to hearing what you have to say
00:28:14.349 --> 00:28:17.569
and that potentially whatever is said might change
00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:19.829
their mind. It might not. you know, it kind of
00:28:19.829 --> 00:28:22.150
was up to the experience that they have. But
00:28:22.150 --> 00:28:25.430
I will say readers like myself, we don't need
00:28:25.430 --> 00:28:28.549
to be tested. If I could just give that out there
00:28:28.549 --> 00:28:30.630
right away, a story I've just heard the other
00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:32.490
day where he was like, I hate it when they come
00:28:32.490 --> 00:28:34.529
and test you and they sit down and they say,
00:28:34.829 --> 00:28:37.190
I need to connect better with my daughter, for
00:28:37.190 --> 00:28:38.910
example. And so you do a reading and you're like,
00:28:38.950 --> 00:28:40.309
these are the things that the cards are telling
00:28:40.309 --> 00:28:41.630
you to connect better with your daughter. You
00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:43.410
need these things in place and blah, blah, blah.
00:28:43.769 --> 00:28:46.549
And then at the end, she's like, well, my daughter's
00:28:46.549 --> 00:28:49.069
dead. And you're like, you didn't tell me that
00:28:49.069 --> 00:28:51.450
in the beginning because you're testing to see
00:28:51.450 --> 00:28:53.569
if I would know it. Like as a psychic, I should
00:28:53.569 --> 00:28:55.890
know those things. It doesn't work like that.
00:28:56.069 --> 00:28:57.990
I'm hoping that people kind of get out of that.
00:28:58.250 --> 00:29:01.069
Like it's not a party trick guys. That's so dumb.
00:29:01.130 --> 00:29:03.569
That annoys me just hearing about it. Yeah. And
00:29:03.569 --> 00:29:07.529
it's kind of like, if I am going to tap in to
00:29:07.529 --> 00:29:09.430
connecting with your departed loved one, I need
00:29:09.430 --> 00:29:11.170
to know that's what I'm working on right now.
00:29:11.289 --> 00:29:14.970
In fact, a lot of us will wall up energetically
00:29:14.970 --> 00:29:18.670
wall up. to focus on the reading because we don't
00:29:18.670 --> 00:29:21.230
want to be distracted by messages flooding in
00:29:21.230 --> 00:29:24.390
and having that gate just open. And there are
00:29:24.390 --> 00:29:26.769
different ways of going about that. One of our
00:29:26.769 --> 00:29:29.609
guides is usually, and you all have them too,
00:29:29.950 --> 00:29:33.410
is a gatekeeper, someone who gate keeps the messages
00:29:33.410 --> 00:29:36.069
so that you can focus on what you need to, what
00:29:36.069 --> 00:29:38.470
is going to serve there and your highest good.
00:29:38.849 --> 00:29:44.950
Right? You just may not be connected and you
00:29:44.950 --> 00:29:46.930
may want to maybe work on that because then it
00:29:46.930 --> 00:29:49.269
can really help and serve you if you're like,
00:29:49.430 --> 00:29:51.630
hey, gatekeeper, I don't want all that today.
00:29:51.750 --> 00:29:54.410
Like, I don't want to be bombarded with energetic
00:29:54.410 --> 00:29:57.049
and emotional messages, you know, empathic people
00:29:57.049 --> 00:29:58.869
that are just like, I'm constantly feeling what
00:29:58.869 --> 00:30:01.609
other people are feeling and you can't live like
00:30:01.609 --> 00:30:04.710
that. I was going to say our daughter is an empath
00:30:04.710 --> 00:30:06.849
through and through. She has a lot of feelings.
00:30:06.950 --> 00:30:10.150
Anytime, you know, she can read a room so well
00:30:10.150 --> 00:30:13.170
and totally get, I mean, I could try to hide
00:30:13.170 --> 00:30:16.170
my emotions as best as I can. And somehow within,
00:30:16.170 --> 00:30:18.450
you know, a little bit of time hanging out with
00:30:18.450 --> 00:30:22.009
her, she'll tap into that somehow and ask me
00:30:22.009 --> 00:30:24.130
about it. And I'm just like, I don't know. I
00:30:24.130 --> 00:30:26.289
feel like there's adults that I interact with
00:30:26.289 --> 00:30:28.269
out there every day that would never be able
00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.589
to read the room or read exactly what I'm doing.
00:30:30.730 --> 00:30:33.529
I feel like I'm pretty good at hiding some of
00:30:33.529 --> 00:30:39.079
my deeper feelings and emotions, but Oh my gosh,
00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:41.319
she'll walk in sometimes and be like, you sound
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:44.000
like you've had a lot of meetings today. I'm
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.900
like, wow, I feel like a horrible parent. Okay.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:50.339
No, that's beautiful. She's like, here's the
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:55.619
diet coke. Good luck with the rest of them. She's
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:58.480
a kindred spirit. She already can tune into what
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.519
you need, what healing is required, what medicine
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:04.519
is needed, which is a diet coke in this circumstance.
00:31:04.700 --> 00:31:07.509
I love that. And you're right, you won't be able
00:31:07.509 --> 00:31:09.490
to hide emotions from people like that. I mean,
00:31:09.569 --> 00:31:11.470
when they're tapped in like that, and it can
00:31:11.470 --> 00:31:13.269
be to their detriment, but it can also be their
00:31:13.269 --> 00:31:16.420
gift, right? Which is like, learn how to board
00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:19.920
that up and also use it to your advantage of
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:22.279
caring for people and being in tune and keeping
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.819
yourself safe as well. So I think that's wonderful,
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.440
but you won't be able to hide it from her, I
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.759
don't think. So she's going to begin her apprenticeship
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.880
and she's going to be Courtney's new apprentice,
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:32.920
it sounds like. When I start my own Hogwarts,
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.799
it'll be like some Academy of Magic or something.
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:39.420
I am not prepared for this kid to turn 11 because
00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.059
we're going to have to make a letter for the
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:43.680
school of Courtney. Like we're going to have
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:46.730
to do something. I'm on it. It might ruin her
00:31:46.730 --> 00:31:48.750
life if she doesn't get a letter on her 11th
00:31:48.750 --> 00:31:50.690
birthday. That would be amazing. I did that for
00:31:50.690 --> 00:31:53.289
my son at 11 too. He gave me a reading one. Are
00:31:53.289 --> 00:31:57.289
there any situations where tarot reading is extremely
00:31:57.289 --> 00:31:59.809
helpful? Are there certain people that it benefits
00:31:59.809 --> 00:32:02.069
more than others? And are there any that should
00:32:02.069 --> 00:32:04.750
really avoid having a reading? That is a good
00:32:04.750 --> 00:32:08.430
question because I do feel like the reading will
00:32:08.430 --> 00:32:11.569
be, like I said, if it's a good reader, not somebody
00:32:11.569 --> 00:32:12.910
who's like, I'm going to tell you how to live
00:32:12.910 --> 00:32:16.369
your life. It would be disappointing, I think,
00:32:16.410 --> 00:32:18.930
if you went into it with sort of a desperation
00:32:18.930 --> 00:32:22.690
for certainty. If you're going into it thinking,
00:32:22.789 --> 00:32:25.289
I'm going to get a certainty on this answer of
00:32:25.289 --> 00:32:27.430
how I should do this or what decision I'm making
00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:31.150
or what's going on in my life right now, it would
00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:34.009
be disappointing because most of the time, and
00:32:34.009 --> 00:32:35.829
I've only had a few readings in all these years
00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:38.309
where I was like, it really is telling you to
00:32:38.309 --> 00:32:42.210
do this or like, this card is really pretty adamant.
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.579
this is the right path for you. Most of the time
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:47.259
it would be here is what you need to know in
00:32:47.259 --> 00:32:49.940
making this decision. And that I think is more
00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:52.900
helpful and more empowering to them. Not so much
00:32:52.900 --> 00:32:56.119
like the cards have all the power. It's this
00:32:56.119 --> 00:32:58.099
is going to show you what you need to know about
00:32:58.099 --> 00:33:00.339
it. And most of the time it is actually just
00:33:00.339 --> 00:33:02.400
confirming what they already knew. They just
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.079
needed the cards to trust themselves. They needed
00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.339
that little bit of affirmation and like, yes,
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.700
you are doing okay. Continue on your journey.
00:33:10.099 --> 00:33:11.799
Yeah. Here's what you need to know about it.
00:33:11.859 --> 00:33:14.039
Here's maybe a deeper subconscious thing you
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:16.380
haven't considered might come up in the reading
00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:19.599
most often. So if they're just like, just tell
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:24.059
me what to do. I feel like that's not what you're
00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:26.140
going to get. That's not how it works. It's not
00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:29.480
how it works. Exactly. So I have dabbled in the
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.220
TikTok readings where I'll get on live and I'll
00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:34.500
just say, come with your questions and I'll pull
00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:36.900
a card for you. And I don't know how other TikTok
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:38.319
readers are doing it. And they're just like,
00:33:38.339 --> 00:33:39.900
yep, this is what it says. This is what it says.
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:41.940
This is what it says. I can't do that. I can't
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:44.519
even do like the yes or no readings because I'm
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:47.240
like, well, actually here's a whole bunch of
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:48.980
stuff that you need to know. And so I'll go off
00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:51.180
and it'll take me 15 minutes to get there. Which
00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:53.319
I feel like on one hand, you're like, I just
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:55.039
want a yes or no, but on the other, you're like,
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:59.039
The fact that you know these details or you know
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.880
how to educate me about what I'm getting makes
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:04.000
me feel like I'm getting so much more than a
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.819
yes or no and so much better quality than someone
00:34:06.819 --> 00:34:09.099
who's just giving me a yes or no. Yeah. I don't
00:34:09.099 --> 00:34:11.000
know how to do yes or no. I really don't. I don't
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.219
even know how that would look, but I get a lot
00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:15.719
of questions from people who are like, am I pregnant
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:18.480
or is my boyfriend going to come back to me?
00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:21.039
And I'm like, you're going to be disappointed
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.480
by these answers because... Shake the eight ball.
00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:26.500
Yeah, Shakespeare, exactly. That would be more
00:34:26.500 --> 00:34:29.139
like it. And then additionally to that, I feel
00:34:29.139 --> 00:34:32.579
like a tarot reading is kind of a good start
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:35.340
to something. But because I do other things,
00:34:35.500 --> 00:34:38.059
I do energy healing, I do a lot of inner child
00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:42.139
emotional processing work that I have. seen change
00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:44.960
people's lives so traumatic, like it's neural
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:48.619
reprogramming basically. So for me, a tarot reading
00:34:48.619 --> 00:34:51.659
is a good first step or yeah, like get some clarity
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:53.840
about a situation. But if they're coming with
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.780
some really deep rooted patterns, ancestral healing,
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:01.500
inner child healing that's needed, I would maybe
00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:04.619
direct them to think about booking a full session,
00:35:04.780 --> 00:35:06.780
like there's something more here that you're
00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:08.360
not going to get in just a tarot reading. Yeah,
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:10.340
that one tarot reading is not the end game for
00:35:10.340 --> 00:35:14.400
them. Yeah. Yeah. So that sparks a question and
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:18.260
made me think of something. Does tarot work online
00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:21.059
or over platforms like Zoom, or is it much more
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:23.840
effective and better to do in person? That's
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.199
the beauty of energy work is it does not matter
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:30.300
where you are on the planet. I can read the energy
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:33.789
from anywhere. Like it doesn't understand space
00:35:33.789 --> 00:35:37.230
and distance like we think of it. It doesn't
00:35:37.230 --> 00:35:39.769
work like that. So yeah, any of my services,
00:35:40.050 --> 00:35:42.639
any of them, the energy healing services. I can
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.659
do online. I can do distance. I have in my closet
00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:48.059
just right here next to me, I have a big giant
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:51.199
teddy bear that I call Reiki bear. I can measure
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:54.699
chakras. It's just a proxy for whoever I'm doing
00:35:54.699 --> 00:35:57.400
the energy healing work with if I'm on Zoom or
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.940
in distance. But the card's absolutely 100 %
00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:04.500
just as effective online or on Zoom as it would
00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:06.440
be if you came and sat right in front of me.
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.199
Cool. That's not what I would have expected.
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:11.139
Yeah. I think that's awesome. Are you located
00:36:11.139 --> 00:36:15.030
in Utah? Yes. As you were mentioning all of the
00:36:15.030 --> 00:36:17.530
difficulty about culturally what it's like, I'm
00:36:17.530 --> 00:36:21.869
like, try being a witch in Utah. It's a completely
00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:24.190
different animal than being anywhere else, which
00:36:24.190 --> 00:36:27.130
is why I'm branching out to more online, broaden
00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:29.809
my audience, I guess, a little bit. Utah might
00:36:29.809 --> 00:36:32.349
not be easy, but at least you're not in Salem
00:36:32.349 --> 00:36:36.840
in the 1600s. Yeah. The similarities sometimes.
00:36:36.940 --> 00:36:39.159
There is something called the witch wound where
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:43.780
the history of betrayal and bias and how we're
00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:46.739
seen and perceived with generations of propaganda
00:36:46.739 --> 00:36:49.380
against us, it does come into play. I have been
00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.260
ostracized from business groups and things like
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:55.400
that in the area where they'll accept me if I
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:57.760
market myself in just an energy healing way.
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.500
They're like, well, we're more open to that.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.940
But as soon as the word witchcraft or witch comes
00:37:01.940 --> 00:37:05.760
into play at all, they're like, Nah. So I have
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.260
chosen to adopt that title and stick with it
00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:10.559
no matter what, even if people have their own
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:12.119
feelings about it. Yeah, of course. Stick to
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:13.860
your guns for sure. I think the authenticity
00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:17.840
and education defy location. Yeah. And I think,
00:37:18.460 --> 00:37:21.179
I mean, I know I'm weird and different, but if
00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:22.400
I came across somebody - I'm glad you know it.
00:37:22.420 --> 00:37:25.300
... such as you that come out with a bold statement,
00:37:25.539 --> 00:37:27.039
you know, like you said - Everyone's a witch.
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.500
I'm a witch or everyone's a witch. Yeah. I think
00:37:29.500 --> 00:37:33.420
that is so cool. Whereas, I think a lot of people
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:36.280
are like, okay, freak, like I'll see you later.
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:38.320
Yeah, I read him the comment that you put that
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:41.179
was talking about, I'm gonna spin by priestess.
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:45.559
And I was like, Tim, we have to talk to her.
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:48.590
Yeah, she did. We were so excited. helpful for
00:37:48.590 --> 00:37:50.590
me, actually, because I'm a little bit like,
00:37:50.909 --> 00:37:53.110
do I dare say this? I mean, what is this going
00:37:53.110 --> 00:37:55.989
to feel like or look like to people? And yeah,
00:37:56.329 --> 00:37:58.670
but I always say like, when I give that claim,
00:37:58.849 --> 00:38:01.170
like everyone's a witch, I ask them questions
00:38:01.170 --> 00:38:03.269
like, have you ever enjoyed a sound bath? Have
00:38:03.269 --> 00:38:06.429
you ever put a candle in a cake and made a wish?
00:38:06.969 --> 00:38:09.519
Like, literally, you could just look at like
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:11.320
pulling a card for an affirmation every day.
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.400
That's something that's become pretty mainstream.
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.159
Mindfulness practices, Buddhist practices that
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:18.599
are, you know, creating good energy and mindfulness
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.940
for the day, that's witchcraft. We just don't
00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:24.079
usually call it that. Can you sort of shorten
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.960
it down, but can you kind of walk us through
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:29.659
what a session with you would look like? What
00:38:29.659 --> 00:38:32.260
does the tarot reading actually look like in
00:38:32.260 --> 00:38:36.219
practice? Yeah, so I like to pull, I mean, I
00:38:36.219 --> 00:38:39.000
have a pretty good card collection. I've got
00:38:39.050 --> 00:38:42.289
Not majorly. I don't like to overdo it. Some
00:38:42.289 --> 00:38:44.849
people have hundreds and hundreds of decks. Oh,
00:38:44.849 --> 00:38:46.630
wow. I was going to ask, what's a lot to you?
00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:48.429
I was going to say, what's overdoing it? I haven't
00:38:48.429 --> 00:38:50.929
actually counted how many decks I have in a minute,
00:38:50.969 --> 00:38:53.090
but I have a shelf. I have a shelf. I know that.
00:38:53.369 --> 00:38:55.869
But I like to intentionally, I like to get to
00:38:55.869 --> 00:38:58.369
know my decks really well. I don't just collect
00:38:58.369 --> 00:39:00.929
for the sake of collecting, but I pull some decks
00:39:00.929 --> 00:39:03.599
for the reading. based on what I think the client
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.079
will resonate with. I like the client to choose
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.059
which deck they like based on the artwork. I
00:39:09.059 --> 00:39:11.059
have one here. I know listeners can't see it,
00:39:11.260 --> 00:39:13.639
but I have the Mind's Eye Tarot. I have a lot
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:16.420
of different ones with different images, different
00:39:16.420 --> 00:39:18.780
vibes, different feelings I pick based on the
00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:21.900
artwork. I like to have a few choices and I like
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:24.340
the client to pick what they want. And then I
00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:26.420
might ask them, start asking them questions about
00:39:26.420 --> 00:39:28.900
what is your intention going into today? What
00:39:28.900 --> 00:39:31.219
questions did you have for me? What are you coming
00:39:31.219 --> 00:39:34.719
with that you feel stuck or you feel like has
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.340
been occupying your mind a lot? Because I usually
00:39:37.340 --> 00:39:39.900
booked an appointment for a reason most of the
00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:42.760
time. Then I'll choose a spread I think will
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.559
be the most effective. I don't personally use
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:48.099
the Celtic Cross too much. That's pretty basic.
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:50.800
Most tarot readers use that. first. But I haven't
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:53.800
used it that much because I like to do the energy
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:56.199
centers. We're kind of looking at each of the
00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:59.260
energy centers of the body and what card is pulled
00:39:59.260 --> 00:40:01.840
for each of those is a really great one. I've
00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:03.739
had ones that will book a healing session right
00:40:03.739 --> 00:40:05.900
after our card session. So we'll do the card
00:40:05.900 --> 00:40:08.079
session and then go into a healing appointment
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:10.300
so we know kind of what we're working with. based
00:40:10.300 --> 00:40:12.280
on the cards we pulled. So there's a couple of
00:40:12.280 --> 00:40:14.099
different spreads that we'll use and then we'll
00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:16.599
just start going into pulling one at a time and
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:18.480
talking about each one and what it means for
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:20.739
them. Sometimes I'll be asking them questions
00:40:20.739 --> 00:40:23.219
like I'll pull a card and the guide's telling
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:26.380
me they need to tell you this. They need to say
00:40:26.380 --> 00:40:29.099
something like I'll say, here's a card with three
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:31.860
people in it. Which of these three people are
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:34.889
you? Which one do you think you are in this card?
00:40:34.969 --> 00:40:36.449
Because that's going to change the meaning of
00:40:36.449 --> 00:40:39.750
it, right? And so it's a conversation throughout
00:40:39.750 --> 00:40:43.130
the entire session. That's really cool. Absolutely.
00:40:43.809 --> 00:40:47.329
So I want to kind of take a shift now that I
00:40:47.329 --> 00:40:49.969
feel like we've gotten a good understanding of
00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:53.269
tarot and witchcraft and we've sort of defined
00:40:53.269 --> 00:40:55.090
where we are and what we're talking about. I
00:40:55.090 --> 00:40:57.630
want to dive in a little bit with a few questions
00:40:57.630 --> 00:41:01.429
on tarot reading specifically and you as a reader.
00:41:01.610 --> 00:41:05.469
What drew you into tarot? And I feel like you
00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:07.829
have so much knowledge. Was there a moment when
00:41:07.829 --> 00:41:10.260
you finally felt like... wow, this clicked. I
00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:13.699
get this. Yeah. I mean, I had been doing all
00:41:13.699 --> 00:41:17.480
of the studying and certifications. And I mean,
00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:20.019
like I said, I am the type of person who would
00:41:20.019 --> 00:41:22.300
never just go out and start charging money for
00:41:22.300 --> 00:41:24.440
something or calling myself a name or a title
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:27.780
without a lot to back it up with. And so I was
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:29.780
already graduating from the Institute of Healing
00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:32.559
Arts where I learned integration processing technique.
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:35.320
of emotional processing, which is energy work.
00:41:35.420 --> 00:41:38.480
It's just a different type. I was Reiki certified
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:40.719
and I was already in that world doing a lot of
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:44.239
that. Taro really appealed to me. I liked playing
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:47.739
with it, learning about it. I dove in with it
00:41:47.739 --> 00:41:50.500
and I did years of just pulling a card for myself,
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.119
just pulling a card every day, studying what
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:56.639
that card meant. I have a notebook that's full.
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:59.300
I mean, you'd be amazed at the notes I've taken
00:41:59.300 --> 00:42:02.800
on each page, a different card and just the notes
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:05.280
I've taken about that. And then someone said,
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.380
there's a master class going on. You can take
00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:10.440
a class from a bunch of professional readers
00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:12.519
that have been doing it for like 50 years, written
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.480
books on the subject. So I took that masterclass.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.219
Phyllis Currett was one of the teachers and she
00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.039
wrote The Witch's Wisdom. She's like 50 years
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:24.780
of experience. So I got a chance to really get
00:42:24.780 --> 00:42:28.659
a lot of really cool takes on it. that not everybody
00:42:28.659 --> 00:42:31.480
does it the same. There is a lot of academia
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:33.739
behind it, but then there's also this whole,
00:42:34.099 --> 00:42:37.159
well, I interpret it this way. For example, each
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:41.679
of the suits, there's four suits and there's
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:44.380
wands and there's swords. There's different variations
00:42:44.380 --> 00:42:46.780
of that, but most of the time associated with
00:42:46.780 --> 00:42:50.460
the element of swords is air, meaning mental
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:53.739
and intellectual and communication, and the wands
00:42:53.739 --> 00:42:55.900
are associated with fire. And that's the way
00:42:55.900 --> 00:42:59.179
most tarot readers will read that. But I never
00:42:59.179 --> 00:43:01.599
felt like that resonated with me. And this particular
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:04.199
teacher told me she doesn't either. She does
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:07.099
the swords are fire and the wands are air. To
00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:09.780
me, that makes more sense. I feel like wands
00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:11.519
are made of wood, which are trees which make
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.059
air. Swords are forged in fire. It just made
00:43:14.059 --> 00:43:15.960
more sense to me that that's the way we would
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:17.300
read those elements. Yeah. I don't know why,
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:19.139
but it's the same for me. It makes more sense
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:21.900
your way, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And so I learned
00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:24.099
that there was a lot of room for interpretation
00:43:24.099 --> 00:43:26.500
and there's a lot of history behind all of the
00:43:26.500 --> 00:43:29.400
different suits and the way that Tarot has come
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.579
to be. Then one day, finally, after all this
00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.940
education, I was at a party where somebody had
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:38.239
hired a reader and she was taking us back one
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:40.159
by one in her room and she was doing a little
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:42.579
reading with us and she was great. She was excellent.
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:45.510
But when I got the reading, I realized I can
00:43:45.510 --> 00:43:48.710
do this. I can do what she just did for me. I
00:43:48.710 --> 00:43:50.670
can do that for people." And then I started adding
00:43:50.670 --> 00:43:53.769
it to my services in a lower rate. I'm just starting
00:43:53.769 --> 00:43:56.150
out as a professional. I've been reading for
00:43:56.150 --> 00:43:58.349
friends and family and I've done enough of the
00:43:58.349 --> 00:44:01.210
free practice. But one of the things that I just
00:44:01.210 --> 00:44:03.550
have to touch on as we talk about that is when
00:44:03.550 --> 00:44:06.230
it's time to start charging, that is never just
00:44:06.230 --> 00:44:09.690
so cut and dry. but some people have a complicated
00:44:09.690 --> 00:44:11.650
feeling about whether to charge for something
00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:13.469
that should just be a healing thing and should
00:44:13.469 --> 00:44:15.250
just be free or should just come from the heart.
00:44:15.730 --> 00:44:17.750
The thing that I realized, and mentors have told
00:44:17.750 --> 00:44:20.409
me this as well, is yeah, I was doing it for
00:44:20.409 --> 00:44:22.369
free with friends and family and whoever wanted
00:44:22.369 --> 00:44:24.650
a reading, I would do it for free. But people
00:44:24.650 --> 00:44:28.329
who get it for free do not get as much out of
00:44:28.329 --> 00:44:32.070
it and walk away feeling like, was fun or interesting.
00:44:35.050 --> 00:44:39.070
If there is an energetic exchange and an actual
00:44:39.070 --> 00:44:42.730
investment in the work, they will take the reading
00:44:42.730 --> 00:44:45.909
more seriously and actually walk away with, oh,
00:44:45.909 --> 00:44:48.070
these are the things I need to know or how to
00:44:48.070 --> 00:44:51.030
change my life or how to apply this in my life.
00:44:51.550 --> 00:44:55.670
And so it is an energetic exchange and we've
00:44:55.670 --> 00:44:57.889
put in the work and the time and the education
00:44:57.889 --> 00:45:00.090
to learn what we've learned. And so I don't have
00:45:00.090 --> 00:45:03.190
any any ethical qualms about charging money.
00:45:03.429 --> 00:45:05.789
I just charged a lot less when I started out
00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:08.130
and then as I became more and more professional
00:45:08.130 --> 00:45:10.829
and experienced, I raised prices accordingly.
00:45:11.309 --> 00:45:13.349
Yeah, I was going to say it reminds me of people,
00:45:13.349 --> 00:45:15.869
you can argue the ethics of dog breeding one
00:45:15.869 --> 00:45:19.510
way or the other, it's fine. But people that
00:45:19.510 --> 00:45:23.889
sell puppies are in certain ways vetting the
00:45:23.889 --> 00:45:26.010
people that are taking the puppies and saying
00:45:26.010 --> 00:45:29.909
like if you're buying a hard breed, like a Siberian
00:45:29.909 --> 00:45:33.869
husky. You are selling that dog for a high value.
00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:38.250
However, the dog is a big investment in time
00:45:38.250 --> 00:45:43.289
and energy and years of your couch. If you cannot
00:45:43.289 --> 00:45:46.250
afford the puppy, you cannot afford the mental
00:45:46.250 --> 00:45:48.869
load of the dog later. So there's breeders that
00:45:48.869 --> 00:45:51.829
will say a free husky puppy is one that's going
00:45:51.829 --> 00:45:55.210
to go to a shelter, whereas one that is sold
00:45:55.210 --> 00:45:58.920
is going to a forever home. And I think you could
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:01.179
argue either way in that, but that's what it
00:46:01.179 --> 00:46:03.719
reminded me of is kind of the idea of you are
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:05.860
getting what you put into it. And if you put
00:46:05.860 --> 00:46:08.179
nothing into it, you're not going to get much
00:46:08.179 --> 00:46:10.539
of anything out of it. Whereas if you're investing
00:46:10.539 --> 00:46:13.420
in that learning ability, you're getting something
00:46:13.420 --> 00:46:17.329
from that. And to your point too, with that example,
00:46:17.670 --> 00:46:20.449
with witchcraft or with healing work or with
00:46:20.449 --> 00:46:22.690
anything, this is the way that I do it. This
00:46:22.690 --> 00:46:24.570
is the way that I was trained and this is the
00:46:24.570 --> 00:46:26.630
way I feel about it. This is how I go about it.
00:46:26.690 --> 00:46:29.469
And like I said, I'm just speaking for me. That's
00:46:29.469 --> 00:46:32.400
not to say Because we have a lot of bias, a lot
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:34.639
of people thinking witchcraft is evil, tarot
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.659
is evil, it's the devil, a demon, whatever. It's
00:46:37.659 --> 00:46:39.599
not to say that there aren't people who practice
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:43.059
what I do in a different context that do believe
00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:45.980
in hexing and do believe in cursing and it's
00:46:45.980 --> 00:46:48.500
as diverse as people themselves and the intention
00:46:48.500 --> 00:46:50.599
that they put into it. Right. How do people tell
00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:54.300
the difference between a genuine reader and kind
00:46:54.300 --> 00:46:57.280
of a glorified scammer, if you will? This is
00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:59.980
where I wish I could teach every person walking
00:46:59.980 --> 00:47:02.519
no matter whether they consider themselves an
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:06.019
energy or woo -woo person or not is to follow
00:47:06.019 --> 00:47:10.460
their intuition, to learn how to know yourself
00:47:10.460 --> 00:47:13.059
well enough, to know what is the vibe you get
00:47:13.059 --> 00:47:15.360
when you meet this person, when you talk to this
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:17.340
person. Do they seem knowledgeable about what
00:47:17.340 --> 00:47:19.659
they're doing? And like I said earlier, if they
00:47:19.659 --> 00:47:22.739
are shitting on you in the reading, if they start
00:47:22.739 --> 00:47:25.320
doing like, well, girl, you just better leave
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:27.820
your husband or whatever it is. And that's how
00:47:27.820 --> 00:47:30.219
it's going to go. You start to feel it. You start
00:47:30.219 --> 00:47:34.179
to feel like this person isn't serving my highest
00:47:34.179 --> 00:47:36.920
good. So, yeah, whether you're woo woo or not,
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.119
I feel like everybody has guides. Everybody has
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:41.440
spiritual intuition. They may not call it that.
00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:43.480
They may call it just like their gut feeling.
00:47:43.820 --> 00:47:46.300
There's a lot to that, a lot more to that than
00:47:46.300 --> 00:47:49.539
we give credit to. So that's first and charging
00:47:49.539 --> 00:47:52.639
way high prices. I keep my prices affordable
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.519
for a reason. There's just certain things like
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:57.599
that that you look at and you go, does that feel
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.480
right to me? Does it feel like that to me the
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:03.500
way it is? You should like them as a person too.
00:48:03.639 --> 00:48:05.340
You know, your reader. That would probably help.
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.960
Yeah. Yeah. So we've talked about a lot of common
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:12.679
misconceptions about the term witch and things
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:14.920
like that. But what do you think people most
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:17.880
misunderstand about tarot readers specifically,
00:48:18.179 --> 00:48:21.119
such as yourself? Yeah, that's a good question.
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:24.559
I mean just the misconceptions that we are working
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:28.579
with evil entities of any kind or demonic. I
00:48:28.579 --> 00:48:30.480
think people do get scared when they see that
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:33.260
there is in the major arcana a devil card and
00:48:33.260 --> 00:48:37.300
there is a death card and that in some way, shape
00:48:37.300 --> 00:48:40.809
or form that that's opening yourself up to. something,
00:48:41.210 --> 00:48:43.769
especially if they were raised in sort of a Christian
00:48:43.769 --> 00:48:45.969
background or Catholicism, things like that.
00:48:46.250 --> 00:48:48.289
There's very much like a, the devil is real.
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.480
you have to be so careful because he could get
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:54.500
you. Which again, I'm not saying that there aren't
00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:56.940
readers and people who consider themselves witches
00:48:56.940 --> 00:48:59.420
and practice witchcraft that maybe dabble in
00:48:59.420 --> 00:49:02.619
that kind of thing. But in general, that's not
00:49:02.619 --> 00:49:04.679
necessarily associated with each other. I think
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.380
that really reputable readers, they have a process
00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:09.599
of warding and protecting when they're getting
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.900
ready. They have a ritual of their own when getting
00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:15.099
ready to do a reading. And they know the processes
00:49:15.099 --> 00:49:17.739
of how to do that, energetically protecting the
00:49:17.739 --> 00:49:20.380
reading itself. And same thing with stuff like
00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:22.519
a Ouija board. Ouija boards in and of themselves
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:25.340
not evil and won't necessarily invite demons
00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:27.739
unless you're looking to do that or you don't
00:49:27.739 --> 00:49:29.559
know what you're doing. But if you know that
00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:32.440
it's just a tool for divination or communication
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:35.420
with the other world or energies or frequencies,
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:39.179
then it dispels all of that connection that it
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:43.000
is inherently evil. Have you ever seen a person,
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:45.840
I mean, I don't even know if it's possible, become
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:51.570
too dependent? on tarot. It's absolutely possible.
00:49:52.510 --> 00:49:55.409
And I'll kind of dive into my other work in emotional
00:49:55.409 --> 00:49:59.090
processing is that just about anything that can
00:49:59.090 --> 00:50:02.650
possibly be done in this world has the potential
00:50:02.650 --> 00:50:05.389
to give us a chemical need in our brains, right?
00:50:05.630 --> 00:50:09.230
Like dopamine, endorphins, and they're associated
00:50:09.230 --> 00:50:12.130
with our basic human needs. So whether we find
00:50:12.130 --> 00:50:16.199
that need or we get that need met in productive,
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:19.579
healthy ways, or not, because some people turn
00:50:19.579 --> 00:50:22.699
to drugs. Some people overexercise to the point
00:50:22.699 --> 00:50:24.599
where their bodies are deteriorating from it.
00:50:24.739 --> 00:50:28.119
Some people excessively clean because they're
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:30.000
looking for that hit of dopamine that makes them
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:31.699
feel like they're in control of their life. Right,
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:34.960
and their addictions, basically. Exactly. And
00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:37.639
just like anything can be an addiction, I think
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:39.480
that it's possible that tarot reading or pulling
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:42.820
a card for absolutely everything and being overly
00:50:42.820 --> 00:50:45.280
dependent on it, it's very possible to get there.
00:50:45.460 --> 00:50:47.679
For every decision you make in the day. Should
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:49.420
I go to Wendy's or McDonald's? Let's see what
00:50:49.420 --> 00:50:53.920
the cards say. Form of OCD perhaps that that's
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.840
their way of getting that need met is to pull
00:50:56.840 --> 00:50:59.119
a card. So yeah, it's absolutely possible. Okay.
00:50:59.380 --> 00:51:02.260
Interesting. Are there any questions that you
00:51:02.260 --> 00:51:05.980
refuse to answer for clients? I might help reword
00:51:05.980 --> 00:51:09.280
a question for a client if it isn't aligned with
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:11.139
how the cards work or how they're going to get
00:51:11.139 --> 00:51:13.280
an answer. Because like I said, I do those TikTok
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:15.219
readings and I get a lot of like, am I pregnant?
00:51:18.489 --> 00:51:21.409
could just go to a doctor or a no. And they're
00:51:21.409 --> 00:51:23.429
testing you to see if you know, and you can say
00:51:23.429 --> 00:51:25.389
yes or no. And then I'm like, I'm being tested.
00:51:25.530 --> 00:51:27.809
Okay. Well, you know, that's not how it works.
00:51:27.809 --> 00:51:30.690
But yeah, I might like reword it. Like what is
00:51:30.690 --> 00:51:33.090
it that I need to know about this situation rather
00:51:33.090 --> 00:51:35.590
than like, am I going to get this answer? I'm
00:51:35.590 --> 00:51:37.829
trying to think if there's anything I would refuse
00:51:37.829 --> 00:51:40.760
outright to answer. And maybe this is a little
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:42.960
different than a tarot reading, but I do dream
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.320
interpretation sessions as well. And I had a
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:50.219
client who wanted me to interpret her dream that
00:51:50.219 --> 00:51:54.079
she felt was for her friend and actually invited
00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:56.420
the friend to be in on the Zoom call with us.
00:51:56.670 --> 00:51:59.630
and kept reiterating that what she was seeing
00:51:59.630 --> 00:52:02.730
in her dream meant this about her friend. She
00:52:02.730 --> 00:52:04.389
wanted her friend to break up with her boyfriend,
00:52:04.510 --> 00:52:06.730
essentially. She just wanted her friend to break
00:52:06.730 --> 00:52:08.869
up with her boyfriend and she thought her dream
00:52:08.869 --> 00:52:11.909
meant that for her friend. And I kept having
00:52:11.909 --> 00:52:15.650
to reiterate like over and over again, your dream
00:52:15.650 --> 00:52:18.429
was not a message for someone else. That's not
00:52:18.429 --> 00:52:20.809
how that works. Here's what you need to know.
00:52:21.010 --> 00:52:24.230
Your dream was telling you about you. Like, what
00:52:24.230 --> 00:52:26.630
is the inner work you have to do? Your dream
00:52:26.630 --> 00:52:29.369
was saying maybe your boyfriend is acting like
00:52:29.369 --> 00:52:31.210
her boyfriend and you should take that as a sign.
00:52:31.210 --> 00:52:34.670
Maybe. Or maybe there's a little too much codependency
00:52:34.670 --> 00:52:37.170
with you and your friends thinking you have the
00:52:37.170 --> 00:52:40.829
burden of this relationship on you to deal with
00:52:40.829 --> 00:52:43.230
and it's not actually your stuff. So this is
00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:46.789
inward work for you to do, not for her, right?
00:52:47.050 --> 00:52:48.989
So I mean, literally had to be like, I'm sorry
00:52:48.989 --> 00:52:50.690
she brought you in on this. You're not here to
00:52:50.690 --> 00:52:52.610
be berated about your boyfriend. I don't know.
00:52:52.969 --> 00:52:55.409
So, that may be kind of in that realm of like,
00:52:55.510 --> 00:53:00.230
I am not going to do a reading for someone else
00:53:00.230 --> 00:53:01.869
when you're the one who booked the appointment
00:53:01.869 --> 00:53:03.750
and is sitting in front of me getting the reading.
00:53:04.030 --> 00:53:06.090
Does that make sense? That makes sense. So, it
00:53:06.090 --> 00:53:10.130
sounds like as a reader, you've got to have some
00:53:10.130 --> 00:53:14.070
like ethical or other types of boundaries with
00:53:14.070 --> 00:53:15.949
your clients. Would you say that's accurate?
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:18.940
I think that's smart practice. I think that's
00:53:18.940 --> 00:53:21.760
good because as readers or as energy healers,
00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:24.559
anything like that, you do have to have some
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:27.820
level of boundary like a wall or a professionalism
00:53:27.820 --> 00:53:30.840
or what you're willing to do. And that's why
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:33.380
the training and the practice and the work beforehand
00:53:33.380 --> 00:53:35.559
before you jump into it as a profession is really
00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:38.480
important because how you represent yourself
00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:40.400
and how you run your business and it really,
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:43.079
really matters to the client and their healing
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:46.019
and to you. Did the cards ever surprise you?
00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:51.199
Every time. Okay. Tell us about that. Surprised
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:54.239
me in such pleasant ways. I don't know. I don't
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:56.059
go into it with any expectation of what the cards
00:53:56.059 --> 00:53:57.820
are going to say. I mean, sometimes I have an
00:53:57.820 --> 00:54:00.179
intuitive kind of feeling of like, I'm thinking
00:54:00.179 --> 00:54:02.780
this is the way it's going to go. But I leave
00:54:02.780 --> 00:54:05.900
myself really open for I'm going to wait and
00:54:05.900 --> 00:54:07.940
see what the cards say and then we'll interpret
00:54:07.940 --> 00:54:10.239
from there. But I'm always just pleasantly surprised
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:13.260
as I'm doing a reading. it'll be a very specific
00:54:13.260 --> 00:54:15.360
question, maybe about a family member or something,
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:19.280
and I'll have a card flip over that is so perfect.
00:54:19.619 --> 00:54:21.920
I couldn't have written it better if I'd come
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.739
up with it myself kind of a feeling. It might
00:54:24.739 --> 00:54:27.559
be like, I've got some things coming up that
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:30.559
are connected to my past when I was a kid, inner
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:32.480
child work coming up that I've got going on.
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:34.619
And in the reading, I might have a six of cups
00:54:34.619 --> 00:54:36.760
come up, which I always associate with inner
00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:39.239
child work because it has two little boys. It's
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:41.420
kids. It's youthful. It's like, an emotional
00:54:41.420 --> 00:54:44.000
connection to your youth. So it's so perfect.
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:46.000
When I flip that card over, it's something that's
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:48.880
like, oh, and I usually react like that. I'm
00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:52.280
like, what? Oh my gosh. People laugh at me while
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:54.820
I'm doing a reading because I'm so like, oh my
00:54:54.820 --> 00:54:57.059
gosh. And they're usually like, what? What does
00:54:57.059 --> 00:55:01.150
it mean? I won the lottery? Have you ever done
00:55:01.150 --> 00:55:03.590
a reading for a client that changed your life
00:55:03.590 --> 00:55:06.630
or your perspective? Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's so
00:55:06.630 --> 00:55:08.849
interesting. And I will say this, especially
00:55:08.849 --> 00:55:11.570
when I'm doing a Tarot for Tips event, I do once
00:55:11.570 --> 00:55:14.070
a month at the local coffee shop. I've seen your
00:55:14.070 --> 00:55:16.360
posts on that. Oh, good. Well, it's nice to know
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:19.059
that people are seeing my post. You never know
00:55:19.059 --> 00:55:21.320
with social media, but I do like to just be there
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:23.059
for a certain number of hours and people can
00:55:23.059 --> 00:55:25.900
pay me whatever. So they get a little three -card
00:55:25.900 --> 00:55:28.500
spread, like a 15, 20 minute reading for whatever
00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:31.239
they can pay. It's a great way to just get a
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:33.699
taste of it without booking a private session.
00:55:33.900 --> 00:55:37.400
So I'll be there. And if there's like a group
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:40.309
of women that have come in together, they often
00:55:40.309 --> 00:55:43.030
will get similar cards in their readings, even
00:55:43.030 --> 00:55:44.829
if they're doing it separately. And that's because
00:55:44.829 --> 00:55:47.460
their energy is so connected already. And it's
00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:51.099
also because we are also connected with the cycles
00:55:51.099 --> 00:55:55.260
and seasons. So a lot of times people, for example,
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:58.340
in the springtime, we're doing a reading, a lot
00:55:58.340 --> 00:56:00.380
of stuff will come up that are like, it's time
00:56:00.380 --> 00:56:04.219
for you to awaken and bloom and - It's newness,
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.260
it's creation, all the things. Right. So it'll
00:56:07.260 --> 00:56:09.380
kind of align with that if everybody's kind of
00:56:09.380 --> 00:56:11.860
in that same cycle. So a lot of times when someone's
00:56:11.860 --> 00:56:13.860
getting a reading, I almost feel like the reading
00:56:13.860 --> 00:56:17.130
is for me too. And I'll feel like, oh, the cards
00:56:17.130 --> 00:56:18.829
are telling you this, this is what message needs
00:56:18.829 --> 00:56:21.050
to come up. And then later I'll be like, that
00:56:21.050 --> 00:56:22.590
actually could have been a message for me too.
00:56:22.750 --> 00:56:25.789
I absolutely can benefit from that right now
00:56:25.789 --> 00:56:28.710
in my life. That's awesome. What's the strangest
00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:31.590
or funniest reaction you've gotten from a client?
00:56:31.989 --> 00:56:34.329
I mean, you said you're pretty reactive to the
00:56:34.329 --> 00:56:36.809
cards of like, oh my gosh, but is there anything
00:56:36.809 --> 00:56:39.050
that your clients like an experience that sticks
00:56:39.050 --> 00:56:42.179
out and like this client did this one time? Well,
00:56:42.179 --> 00:56:45.260
I don't claim to be a medium. I think that everybody
00:56:45.260 --> 00:56:47.539
has a little bit of mediumship capabilities.
00:56:47.739 --> 00:56:49.900
And sometimes I do have certain things come through
00:56:49.900 --> 00:56:52.320
in a Reiki session, a healing session, a message
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:54.719
might come through. But I don't say I'm a medium.
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:57.980
But I did have readings, maybe a few, but I'm
00:56:57.980 --> 00:57:00.960
thinking of one in particular that a card was
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.440
pulled. It was in the Mythic Goddess tarot deck
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.579
that I have. And it had a little bird in the
00:57:07.579 --> 00:57:09.940
corner of one of the cards that had like a dove
00:57:09.940 --> 00:57:11.440
or something that was flying in the corner. of
00:57:11.440 --> 00:57:13.800
the card. And for whatever reason, intuitively,
00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:17.199
I thought, do you have a friend that passed away?
00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:19.780
Was there a friend you were very close with?
00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:22.019
And I was pointing at the bird. And she just
00:57:22.019 --> 00:57:24.099
started crying immediately. She's like one of
00:57:24.099 --> 00:57:26.679
my best friends who, and I think she even had
00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:28.500
an association with birds. There was something
00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:30.820
that that symbol meant something to her too.
00:57:31.099 --> 00:57:34.280
And I said, this card is coming forward because
00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:37.460
the bird is flying above and behind the subject
00:57:37.460 --> 00:57:41.239
of the card watching over you. This is her coming
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:44.739
through right now for you to say, I'm here. I'm
00:57:44.739 --> 00:57:46.960
watching over you. You're not alone in this,
00:57:47.000 --> 00:57:48.340
what you're going through right now. And that
00:57:48.340 --> 00:57:50.059
was really powerful. I mean, obviously that was
00:57:50.059 --> 00:57:54.039
very emotional and the reaction was really positive,
00:57:54.340 --> 00:57:56.679
like something she really, really needed to hear.
00:57:57.039 --> 00:57:59.559
That's so cool. I love that. So you kind of told
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:01.659
us that, you know, there's hundreds of different
00:58:01.659 --> 00:58:04.039
decks out there and so many different cards and
00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:07.000
everything. Is there a single most misunderstood
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:11.199
card in these decks? It would be like a tie between
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:13.460
the devil and the death card that people are
00:58:13.460 --> 00:58:16.059
afraid of. Should people be so afraid of the
00:58:16.059 --> 00:58:18.780
death card? No. I mean, let me just say this.
00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:20.159
And this is again, going back to the difference
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:22.300
between Oracle and Tarot. There's a lot of jokes
00:58:22.300 --> 00:58:26.000
about this where Oracle is more probably going
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:28.239
to be like an affirmation deck. It's just going
00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:29.980
to be really positive and light and be like,
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:32.940
you've got this. You are light. Everything is
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:36.000
wonderful. And it's all kind of just building
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:38.630
you up and making you feel good. Taro is a little
00:58:38.630 --> 00:58:41.369
bit more like, I am going to really give you
00:58:41.369 --> 00:58:43.389
the real. It's not always going to be comfortable.
00:58:43.550 --> 00:58:45.650
We're not sugar coating. We're not fluffing.
00:58:45.789 --> 00:58:47.869
You are getting what you're getting. Exactly.
00:58:48.510 --> 00:58:50.389
So with that being said, there are cards that
00:58:50.389 --> 00:58:53.050
are not going to be comfortable. The Tower card
00:58:53.050 --> 00:58:54.829
is another one that often gets a bad rep when
00:58:54.829 --> 00:58:56.989
people know tarot a little bit better because
00:58:56.989 --> 00:59:01.949
the Tower card is a tower on fire or people jumping
00:59:01.949 --> 00:59:06.909
out of it. It's chaos. And it does mean disruption.
00:59:07.210 --> 00:59:11.210
It's that moment of life where there's an ego
00:59:11.210 --> 00:59:14.269
death oftentimes. Everything you thought you
00:59:14.269 --> 00:59:17.400
knew is going to be challenged. going to be hard.
00:59:17.630 --> 00:59:21.369
But it's absolutely necessary because you can't
00:59:21.369 --> 00:59:25.070
level up and ascend from that position of stuckness
00:59:25.070 --> 00:59:27.489
where you are without some destruction happening.
00:59:27.630 --> 00:59:29.650
There has to be a destruction of what you thought.
00:59:30.010 --> 00:59:32.769
So even in the death card, it often associates
00:59:32.769 --> 00:59:36.889
with a death or a grief in a more personal way.
00:59:36.949 --> 00:59:38.989
Like you are going through something that this
00:59:38.989 --> 00:59:43.949
has to die. This has to decompose. This has to
00:59:43.949 --> 00:59:47.599
nourish the new that's coming. Yeah, the cycle
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:51.300
has ended. It's dead. The devil card often representing
00:59:51.300 --> 00:59:54.840
vices, addictions, patterns you keep getting
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:57.969
stuck in. So it's not so light and airy. But
00:59:57.969 --> 01:00:00.170
it is important. I mean, those are the part of
01:00:00.170 --> 01:00:03.210
the messages that people need. So it's misunderstood
01:00:03.210 --> 01:00:05.769
for sure. And the hanged man is also that kind
01:00:05.769 --> 01:00:08.969
of vibe too. It's a man hanging by his foot usually.
01:00:09.110 --> 01:00:10.710
I mean, it's not usually like what we think of
01:00:10.710 --> 01:00:13.570
as a hanging man, but it's associated with Odin
01:00:13.570 --> 01:00:17.289
and the mythology of him hanging from the Yggdrasil
01:00:17.289 --> 01:00:20.409
tree. And he had to sacrifice his eye to get
01:00:20.409 --> 01:00:23.230
the wisdom of the Norns, which are the runes
01:00:23.230 --> 01:00:26.179
that they use in Nordic divination. But That
01:00:26.179 --> 01:00:29.199
story is basically the idea that you have to
01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:32.179
let go of something, you have to sacrifice something
01:00:32.179 --> 01:00:34.739
to get this next thing. So whatever is happening
01:00:34.739 --> 01:00:36.619
in their lives at that time, it's kind of like,
01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:39.380
you're going to have to let go of one rung of
01:00:39.380 --> 01:00:41.440
the ladder in order to reach for the next rung
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:43.599
of the ladder. So you said that you've been doing
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:47.059
this for years. How long would you say that it
01:00:47.059 --> 01:00:50.219
took before you felt really confident doing readings
01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:53.739
for your clients? I would say I was probably
01:00:53.739 --> 01:00:56.159
doing it for two or three years first before
01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:58.960
I even had that reading with the person that
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:01.679
I was like, oh, I could do this. I feel confident
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:04.019
now that I can do this professionally. Yeah.
01:01:04.619 --> 01:01:08.659
Okay. So we have one final question and then
01:01:08.659 --> 01:01:12.800
we want to dive into some common myths, misconceptions,
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:16.539
all the things. If someone is super interested
01:01:16.539 --> 01:01:19.800
in all that we've talked about today, how do
01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:22.019
they learn more and how would they get started?
01:01:22.269 --> 01:01:24.530
Like, where is the starting point if they want
01:01:24.530 --> 01:01:26.050
to know more? I feel like there's so much crap
01:01:26.050 --> 01:01:28.550
on the internet. Yeah. Where do you even begin?
01:01:28.829 --> 01:01:30.889
I think that Oracle cards are a great gateway.
01:01:31.050 --> 01:01:32.949
So if you're just like, this is the first time
01:01:32.949 --> 01:01:34.409
I've ever even thought about this, I'm going
01:01:34.409 --> 01:01:36.449
to just go buy an Oracle deck that looks good
01:01:36.449 --> 01:01:41.070
to me. Go look at them. Go look at the artwork
01:01:41.070 --> 01:01:44.250
and say, that feels like me, or I'm really into
01:01:44.250 --> 01:01:46.090
mermaids. So I'm going to get a mermaid Oracle
01:01:46.090 --> 01:01:49.030
deck, or something that feels personal. Because
01:01:49.030 --> 01:01:51.639
when you connect with the deck, it's infinitely
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:54.219
better than if you just kind of picked up any
01:01:54.219 --> 01:01:56.699
deck and was just trying to read it. You might
01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:58.719
not feel as connected. You might not be like,
01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:00.659
I don't know what this card means, but if you
01:02:00.659 --> 01:02:02.840
have some connection and association with it.
01:02:02.969 --> 01:02:05.570
even better. Then you start pulling a card for
01:02:05.570 --> 01:02:08.010
yourself. Just as a morning ritual, wake up in
01:02:08.010 --> 01:02:10.010
the morning and pull a card and say, this is
01:02:10.010 --> 01:02:12.409
my day or this is what I'm working on today.
01:02:12.750 --> 01:02:15.369
You just start building that slowly. I do think
01:02:15.369 --> 01:02:16.969
when you get to a point where you're like, now
01:02:16.969 --> 01:02:20.090
I'm just so interested, I need more, you look
01:02:20.090 --> 01:02:22.969
for classes. You look for people offering classes
01:02:22.969 --> 01:02:26.670
online or there's a podcast to people that I
01:02:26.670 --> 01:02:29.789
love to listen to. I'll censor the title, but
01:02:29.789 --> 01:02:33.780
it's Tarot is... cool. And it's a podcast of
01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:35.420
two people in England and they teach classes
01:02:35.420 --> 01:02:37.599
online too on like Patreon and things like that.
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.619
And I think they're great. So there's a lot of
01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:44.239
resources out there, but I would maybe just tell
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:47.619
people to be careful about the very basic like
01:02:47.619 --> 01:02:50.340
asking AI or asking something, you know, what
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:52.599
a card means and then just going with that. I
01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:54.920
feel like there's apps out there that will do
01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:56.599
a reading and then it'll tell you what the card
01:02:56.599 --> 01:02:59.059
means. But you're getting like a really cookie
01:02:59.059 --> 01:03:02.469
cutter like basic symbolism and representation
01:03:02.469 --> 01:03:04.969
of this card. That's not bad. That's a good way
01:03:04.969 --> 01:03:08.409
to start and learn the cards, but it completely
01:03:08.409 --> 01:03:11.670
almost takes away your intuition from it as well.
01:03:11.809 --> 01:03:14.570
There's just the base knowledge that you need
01:03:14.570 --> 01:03:17.349
to have, and then there's everything on top of
01:03:17.349 --> 01:03:19.510
that that you've got to practice as well. It
01:03:19.510 --> 01:03:23.050
reminds me, as we were talking earlier, introducing
01:03:23.050 --> 01:03:25.789
that bias without even realizing you're doing
01:03:25.789 --> 01:03:28.570
it. You're taking a cookie cutter piece of information.
01:03:28.730 --> 01:03:32.170
And if you take that as gospel, then you're limiting
01:03:32.170 --> 01:03:35.130
your opportunities for growth and understanding
01:03:35.130 --> 01:03:37.929
and expansion there. Yeah. And that's the beauty
01:03:37.929 --> 01:03:41.289
of going to a reader for a card reading is you
01:03:41.289 --> 01:03:43.150
can just know what the cards mean and you can
01:03:43.150 --> 01:03:45.769
get the basic like, you know, six of cups is
01:03:45.769 --> 01:03:47.369
always going to mean this one thing and there's
01:03:47.369 --> 01:03:49.969
six cups and this and that, whatever. But you're
01:03:49.969 --> 01:03:53.010
going to miss a whole element to it that only
01:03:53.010 --> 01:03:55.750
like an intuitive reader would be able to then
01:03:55.750 --> 01:03:58.860
relay that message to you. So, like Alyssa said,
01:03:59.260 --> 01:04:02.559
and especially with this topic, it was so fun
01:04:02.559 --> 01:04:06.719
to scour the internet and think of our own misconceptions
01:04:06.719 --> 01:04:09.380
or hot takes about this whole topic that we've
01:04:09.380 --> 01:04:11.739
been talking about with you today. I even asked
01:04:11.739 --> 01:04:17.039
AI for some unhinged myths or some unhinged facts
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:20.739
about tarot. So I was going to say, we gave you
01:04:20.739 --> 01:04:22.000
a little bit of a warning that we were going
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:24.639
to ask this section. And for the sake of time,
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:26.989
we'll keep it. pretty brief. I mean, if you need
01:04:26.989 --> 01:04:29.570
to give us a little bit more of an explanation
01:04:29.570 --> 01:04:31.969
or answer, that's fine. But for the most part,
01:04:31.969 --> 01:04:34.190
let's try to give true or false to most of these
01:04:34.190 --> 01:04:36.949
if we can. You want to start it off, Liz? I can.
01:04:37.070 --> 01:04:40.309
Okay. All right. Here's the big question, which
01:04:40.309 --> 01:04:42.429
popped up as soon as Tim was like, where do I
01:04:42.429 --> 01:04:46.210
buy this deck? I'm like, you can't. Is it true
01:04:46.210 --> 01:04:48.570
or false that you were not supposed to buy your
01:04:48.570 --> 01:04:51.250
own tarot deck? You can buy your own oracle cards,
01:04:51.269 --> 01:04:55.179
but not your own tarot deck. True and false.
01:04:55.659 --> 01:05:01.599
Okay, I'm sorry. No, I love it You like keep
01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:04.579
it brief. I'm like, I will do my best Well, I
01:05:04.579 --> 01:05:08.000
have met some old world tarot readers that literally
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.179
learned it from their grandmother in the old
01:05:10.179 --> 01:05:14.260
country You know from Romania and there are rules
01:05:14.260 --> 01:05:16.780
that they follow that are much more rigid and
01:05:16.780 --> 01:05:21.239
much more like you cannot touch another person's
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:24.119
deck You have to bury it in the earth and leave
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:26.579
it for the full moon. I don't think those are
01:05:26.579 --> 01:05:28.900
not true. I think it's just more nuanced than
01:05:28.900 --> 01:05:31.480
that. Some people have bought their own tarot
01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:33.619
deck and just said, I gifted this to myself.
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:38.079
And I absolutely think that counts. So my first
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:41.320
deck was gifted to me. So I felt like it applied
01:05:41.320 --> 01:05:44.719
to that. But I think everything matters only
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:47.880
if you make it matter. Everything is about intention,
01:05:48.139 --> 01:05:50.960
right? So if you're a person who thinks I can't
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:53.380
go buy my own deck I'm going to wait for it to
01:05:53.380 --> 01:05:55.480
be gifted to me because that's important to me
01:05:55.480 --> 01:05:58.340
that matters that is meaningful to me Then it
01:05:58.340 --> 01:06:01.139
matters, but I don't necessarily think it does
01:06:01.139 --> 01:06:03.360
make sense. Yeah, I like that Here's a fun one.
01:06:03.500 --> 01:06:05.860
You must cleanse your deck under a full moon
01:06:05.860 --> 01:06:08.840
You can cleanse your deck under a full moon,
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:11.039
but that's not the only way you can clean. You're
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.840
not completely necessary, right? Okay So true
01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:18.679
and false. OK, gotcha. OK. Tarot only works if
01:06:18.679 --> 01:06:23.260
you're psychic. Everybody is psychic. OK. I like
01:06:23.260 --> 01:06:25.980
it. If a card falls out while you're shuffling,
01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:29.019
it's supernaturally important or holds some significance.
01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:32.139
True. Cool. And again, it depends on the reader
01:06:32.139 --> 01:06:34.880
and how they decide to do it. Some readers read
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:37.480
reversals and some don't. So it really depends
01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:39.920
on the reader when they're shuffling, if that
01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:42.019
is meaningful to them that it came out. Yes,
01:06:42.019 --> 01:06:44.739
but I definitely subscribe to that. So like,
01:06:44.780 --> 01:06:46.820
if I'm shuffling and getting ready and a card
01:06:46.820 --> 01:06:50.039
flies out, I'm like, that card was me. What card
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:53.199
is it? If you pull the same card repeatedly,
01:06:53.500 --> 01:06:58.050
the universe is yelling at you. True. Okay. I'm
01:06:58.050 --> 01:07:02.710
being yelled at currently by my dad. You should
01:07:02.710 --> 01:07:06.409
never read tarot for yourself. False. I've never
01:07:06.409 --> 01:07:08.449
heard that. Really? Yeah. I don't know anybody
01:07:08.449 --> 01:07:10.969
that doesn't read for themselves. Uh huh. Okay.
01:07:11.190 --> 01:07:14.070
I like it. Bad readings can curse your future.
01:07:15.510 --> 01:07:18.429
I have a very complicated relationship with cursing
01:07:18.429 --> 01:07:20.610
and I have an episode of Practically Magic about
01:07:20.610 --> 01:07:23.409
just cursing if anybody is interested to go into
01:07:23.409 --> 01:07:25.829
depth with that, but - Curse holds a lot of powerful
01:07:25.829 --> 01:07:29.679
meaning. Yes. And I do think it's possible for
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:32.619
anybody at any time to curse themselves, even
01:07:32.619 --> 01:07:35.320
subconsciously. But in general, that's false.
01:07:35.579 --> 01:07:37.780
I don't think anyone should be scared. Should
01:07:37.780 --> 01:07:40.500
I say that? Yeah. Is tarot forbidden in some
01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:42.980
religions because it's inherently evil? Have
01:07:42.980 --> 01:07:45.019
you heard that or come across that belief? Oh,
01:07:45.059 --> 01:07:47.380
yeah. I definitely think there are religions
01:07:47.380 --> 01:07:49.690
that think it's evil. I mean, growing up, that
01:07:49.690 --> 01:07:52.610
was, yeah, you don't make a joke about tarot
01:07:52.610 --> 01:07:56.010
cards. The South is so superstitious. The South
01:07:56.010 --> 01:07:58.510
is very superstitious, maybe for good reason.
01:07:58.730 --> 01:08:01.130
Who knows? Yeah. And I have come across that
01:08:01.130 --> 01:08:04.369
in this area as well with Christian denominations
01:08:04.369 --> 01:08:07.489
of certain kinds. are around. It's kind of like
01:08:07.489 --> 01:08:10.050
playing cards too. You know, playing cards were
01:08:10.050 --> 01:08:11.929
something that when I was in school, like they
01:08:11.929 --> 01:08:13.590
wouldn't even let you bring playing cards to
01:08:13.590 --> 01:08:15.329
school because they associated it with gambling
01:08:15.329 --> 01:08:17.630
and they associated that with evil. And so even
01:08:17.630 --> 01:08:20.430
just face cards were evil. In my time, it was
01:08:20.430 --> 01:08:22.909
Pokemon cards. Oh my gosh. Everyone would bring
01:08:22.909 --> 01:08:24.710
them to school. Everyone was getting them taken.
01:08:25.289 --> 01:08:31.149
I didn't do it. Oh my. Tarot cards can open portals
01:08:31.149 --> 01:08:36.789
to spirits or demons. I think there are certain
01:08:36.789 --> 01:08:40.010
people who believe that and I think that there
01:08:40.010 --> 01:08:43.189
is more to that than just a simple yes or no.
01:08:43.470 --> 01:08:45.670
I don't know if I personally believe in like
01:08:45.670 --> 01:08:49.810
demon entities, but I do believe in shadow parts
01:08:49.810 --> 01:08:51.909
and we can go into the psychology of that and
01:08:51.909 --> 01:08:55.430
things like that. But opening a portal, I feel
01:08:55.430 --> 01:08:58.649
is possible. And like I said, with Ouija boards,
01:08:58.970 --> 01:09:01.310
Taro, I feel like it's important that people
01:09:01.310 --> 01:09:03.289
know how to protect themselves energetically.
01:09:03.430 --> 01:09:08.529
And so it can be true. So can the cards become
01:09:08.529 --> 01:09:11.869
haunted? I know they can get bad energy. But
01:09:11.869 --> 01:09:14.689
what about, yeah, haunted? What's the difference
01:09:14.689 --> 01:09:17.010
between a bad energy connected to something and
01:09:17.010 --> 01:09:20.510
haunted is maybe a question too, because I associate
01:09:20.510 --> 01:09:23.210
that as the same thing. I think, yeah, absolutely.
01:09:23.390 --> 01:09:25.810
But not just because it's tarot. I think that
01:09:25.810 --> 01:09:29.090
that is true of anything and everywhere. Of any
01:09:29.090 --> 01:09:33.079
energy. I do energy cleansings on people who
01:09:33.079 --> 01:09:35.840
do hair extensions when they're using real hair.
01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:38.840
They're using someone else's hair to do a hair
01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.619
extension. I would recommend getting a cleansing
01:09:41.619 --> 01:09:44.060
because you don't know what kind of energy that
01:09:44.060 --> 01:09:47.579
person had. Not that they're bad or evil or anything,
01:09:47.680 --> 01:09:49.680
but it's someone else's energy and you're putting
01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:52.239
it on your head near your crown chakra and all
01:09:52.239 --> 01:09:55.000
of that. You're inviting something. It's not
01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:58.670
just a tarot. It's like Places, objects, the
01:09:58.670 --> 01:10:02.029
land that you live on, anything can have residue,
01:10:02.029 --> 01:10:05.229
I guess. Okay. How about this one? Using someone
01:10:05.229 --> 01:10:07.390
else's deck can spiritually bind you to them.
01:10:08.369 --> 01:10:10.529
I have not heard that. I wouldn't say spiritually
01:10:10.529 --> 01:10:13.810
bind, but definitely affect you. Okay. It's a
01:10:13.810 --> 01:10:15.329
good idea to cleanse your deck if you're using
01:10:15.329 --> 01:10:17.770
someone else's deck to cleanse between use. Do
01:10:17.770 --> 01:10:21.710
you think AI tarot readings are spiritually dangerous?
01:10:22.069 --> 01:10:26.050
Or could they be? They could be. I'll say that.
01:10:26.109 --> 01:10:29.149
They could be. I'm not against it. I'm not one
01:10:29.149 --> 01:10:31.729
of those that's like, AI, don't use it for anything
01:10:31.729 --> 01:10:34.029
ever, ever, ever. I'm not one of those. But I
01:10:34.029 --> 01:10:36.770
have AI on my website. I use it. But just like
01:10:36.770 --> 01:10:39.329
the way that there have been dangerous connections
01:10:39.329 --> 01:10:41.710
with AI, using it for psychological reasons,
01:10:41.890 --> 01:10:45.369
asking questions and getting answers and it being
01:10:45.369 --> 01:10:47.750
harmful to people, I think it can be the exact
01:10:47.750 --> 01:10:50.609
same thing. Do you think there's certain decks
01:10:50.609 --> 01:10:53.170
out there that can attract certain entities more
01:10:53.170 --> 01:10:56.439
than others? I think it's totally up to who uses
01:10:56.439 --> 01:10:58.920
it and what purpose they're using it for. I don't
01:10:58.920 --> 01:11:01.420
think the deck itself would have. The power is
01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:04.979
in the person, not in the deck. Do you think
01:11:04.979 --> 01:11:09.100
TikTok tarot culture is destroying real tarot
01:11:09.100 --> 01:11:12.800
practice? I think it's possible just like any
01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:15.899
tarot reader doing it on the street can be good
01:11:15.899 --> 01:11:19.159
and ethical at what they do or not. I know when
01:11:19.159 --> 01:11:21.500
I started doing TikTok tarot readings once in
01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:24.479
a while, I was kind of like, whoa, what is happening
01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:27.539
on TikTok? I don't know what the questions I
01:11:27.539 --> 01:11:29.840
was getting. I'm like, what's happening? I'm
01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:32.239
not really that connected to TikTok or familiar
01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:35.420
with it. But I have kind of scrolled around and
01:11:35.420 --> 01:11:37.239
watching other people do readings and I'm like,
01:11:37.340 --> 01:11:39.680
oh no. Some of these are really giving us a bad
01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:41.340
name. This isn't going well. I wouldn't recommend
01:11:41.340 --> 01:11:45.159
this to anyone, you know, so. Okay. Can you accidentally
01:11:45.159 --> 01:11:48.039
manifest disasters by asking the wrong questions?
01:11:49.380 --> 01:11:53.640
No. I didn't think so. All right. You might have
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:56.359
to define this. Again, we got our list of questions
01:11:56.359 --> 01:12:00.439
between all kinds of things. And our own unhinged
01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:03.539
brains. Yeah. Can some readers intentionally
01:12:03.539 --> 01:12:06.239
use cold reading techniques without admitting
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:08.989
it? What is a cold reading technique? That's
01:12:08.989 --> 01:12:11.630
kind of like an illusionist or a mentalist does
01:12:11.630 --> 01:12:13.609
when they are acting like they're reading your
01:12:13.609 --> 01:12:15.270
mind, but really they've just gotten so good
01:12:15.270 --> 01:12:18.229
at reading your physical cues and stuff, so using
01:12:18.229 --> 01:12:20.510
that in a reading. I can't say that we don't
01:12:20.510 --> 01:12:22.949
subconsciously do that just as human beings.
01:12:23.229 --> 01:12:25.270
I think we all have the ability to read people
01:12:25.270 --> 01:12:27.750
like that when we're really intuitive. You can
01:12:27.750 --> 01:12:29.649
kind of tell when you walk into a room where
01:12:29.649 --> 01:12:31.590
two people have just been in a fight with each
01:12:31.590 --> 01:12:33.579
other. and they stop fighting before you get
01:12:33.579 --> 01:12:35.699
there, but you feel it. Their body language,
01:12:36.159 --> 01:12:37.699
the feeling in the room, the energy, you can
01:12:37.699 --> 01:12:40.720
feel the tension. So I can't say that that isn't
01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:45.960
part of it in a subconscious way, but I personally
01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:50.800
don't use anything. I haven't studied that part
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:53.380
of it. Studying people and their cues and things
01:12:53.380 --> 01:12:55.000
like that and then using that in the reading.
01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:57.460
I think that would be unethical. I think it's
01:12:57.460 --> 01:13:00.800
supposed to be an intuitive divination. Divination
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:03.079
meaning it comes from divine, right? So it's
01:13:03.079 --> 01:13:06.199
being channels from a divine source. So that's
01:13:06.199 --> 01:13:10.960
my take on that. Can you believe in conventional
01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:14.699
religion, but also believe in the power of tarot?
01:13:14.960 --> 01:13:17.520
It's a good question. I mean, I think that there
01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:19.239
would be religious leaders that would tell their
01:13:19.239 --> 01:13:21.680
congregation, no, absolutely not. You cannot
01:13:21.680 --> 01:13:24.220
go anywhere but here because this is the only
01:13:24.220 --> 01:13:27.340
source connected to God that you can have. That
01:13:27.340 --> 01:13:30.079
I would question, right? Not because I'm not
01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:31.899
associated with a religion anymore, but also
01:13:31.899 --> 01:13:33.659
because I'm like, doesn't that seem a little
01:13:33.659 --> 01:13:35.520
bit like something you'd want to question? I
01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:38.180
think organized religion absolutely would. They're
01:13:38.180 --> 01:13:42.039
like, you can't believe in tarot, but also be
01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:44.840
part of a religion. Right, but it's absolutely
01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:48.239
possible. I often tell people paganism is not
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:52.010
a dogma or a religion. For me, I can be a Christian
01:13:52.010 --> 01:13:54.869
and a pagan. I can have these beliefs in one
01:13:54.869 --> 01:13:57.550
thing and another. And because I'm spiritual
01:13:57.550 --> 01:14:00.170
and these are my beliefs, I can do both. And
01:14:00.170 --> 01:14:01.930
that's not a problem for me. But I'm also not
01:14:01.930 --> 01:14:04.510
going to a church with a authority that's telling
01:14:04.510 --> 01:14:07.289
me what I can and can't do and how to connect
01:14:07.289 --> 01:14:10.850
with God in my terms. So to that I say, absolutely,
01:14:10.890 --> 01:14:13.590
you can do both. But that's up to each person's
01:14:13.590 --> 01:14:16.649
journey. That totally makes sense. I love that.
01:14:16.859 --> 01:14:21.239
But this has been so good. I feel like we have
01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:24.220
gone so deep into so many different topics and
01:14:24.220 --> 01:14:26.260
I have loved it. I feel like there's so much
01:14:26.260 --> 01:14:28.020
more to learn and we could talk for another three
01:14:28.020 --> 01:14:30.619
hours. I know I could. That's why I have a podcast.
01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:34.220
Right? We end every episode with two questions
01:14:34.220 --> 01:14:36.359
and I feel like the answers typically come out
01:14:36.359 --> 01:14:38.020
pretty similar, but I think they're a good way
01:14:38.020 --> 01:14:42.250
to kind of tie everything together. A sentence
01:14:42.250 --> 01:14:45.350
or two, or as Tim says, if you're talking to
01:14:45.350 --> 01:14:48.189
me, then it's usually three or four. Can you
01:14:48.189 --> 01:14:51.850
summarize what you believe? I believe that we
01:14:51.850 --> 01:14:55.409
are all energy. I believe that everything is
01:14:55.409 --> 01:15:00.119
energy. particles vibrating next to each other
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:04.380
in different frequencies. And so each tarot card,
01:15:04.659 --> 01:15:08.840
each crystal, every sound we hear, every plant,
01:15:09.039 --> 01:15:11.739
animal, and object also has a frequency. And
01:15:11.739 --> 01:15:14.720
so the world is really a magical place if you
01:15:14.720 --> 01:15:16.779
really think of it in those terms. It may not
01:15:16.779 --> 01:15:19.420
look like Harry Potter, but it is actually magical.
01:15:19.659 --> 01:15:23.079
And that's what I believe. I love that. I told
01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:25.979
you Harry Potter was real. I didn't argue that
01:15:25.979 --> 01:15:31.600
it was real. Alright, so our last and final question.
01:15:32.159 --> 01:15:34.800
We heard your belief. Is there anything out there
01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:37.479
that could convince you to believe the opposite
01:15:37.479 --> 01:15:40.859
way or view it? I guess very differently from
01:15:40.859 --> 01:15:44.260
what you currently do. Oh, my first thought was
01:15:44.260 --> 01:15:48.260
that if someone took me to the backstage of life
01:15:48.260 --> 01:15:50.680
of what's going on, like the matrix, like I took
01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:52.939
the pill and they're like, actually everything
01:15:52.939 --> 01:15:55.720
you thought is all being controlled and managed
01:15:55.720 --> 01:15:58.560
by this back end that you didn't know was there.
01:15:58.880 --> 01:16:02.100
And even then I would be like, see, I was right.
01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:06.930
You're like, I knew it. It still works. It still
01:16:06.930 --> 01:16:10.109
applies. It was magical. It was just being programmed
01:16:10.109 --> 01:16:13.449
in this back end. Right. I love that. Well, Courtney,
01:16:13.529 --> 01:16:16.850
thank you so much for a good episode and all
01:16:16.850 --> 01:16:20.130
of the insights that you've brought to our show.
01:16:20.350 --> 01:16:22.710
We'll definitely link Practically Magic with
01:16:22.710 --> 01:16:26.170
Courtney Pearl on our podcast and link there.
01:16:26.409 --> 01:16:29.029
Is there any other context info that you'd like
01:16:29.029 --> 01:16:30.630
to have us leaving the footnotes for everyone?
01:16:30.750 --> 01:16:35.430
Yeah. My business is Prism Healing. prism -healing
01:16:35.430 --> 01:16:38.050
.com is my website you can go to and you can
01:16:38.050 --> 01:16:41.310
book sessions there or prism healing on Instagram.
01:16:41.670 --> 01:16:44.789
It's prism underscore healing on Instagram and
01:16:44.789 --> 01:16:47.270
then TikTok. It's just at prism healing. But
01:16:47.270 --> 01:16:49.750
that's where I post content that, you know, maybe
01:16:49.750 --> 01:16:51.649
share a little peek inside what it's like in
01:16:51.649 --> 01:16:54.069
a regular old witch's life and what I do. So
01:16:54.069 --> 01:16:56.149
if you're interested in more of that, you can
01:16:56.149 --> 01:16:58.479
follow me there. All right. Well, we will let
01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:00.579
you go. But thank you so much again. This has
01:17:00.579 --> 01:17:03.180
been awesome. Yep. It's been a blast. I'm so
01:17:03.180 --> 01:17:06.100
glad we could do this. Well, everyone, that's
01:17:06.100 --> 01:17:09.579
today's episode. Now, if you're mad, intrigued,
01:17:09.979 --> 01:17:12.840
or rethinking your entire personality, then our
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:15.659
work here is done. We'll be back next time with
01:17:15.659 --> 01:17:19.539
another guest, another opinion and the same chaos.
01:17:24.060 --> 01:17:27.210
If you have a hot take, a controversial opinion
01:17:27.210 --> 01:17:29.529
or just some weird belief and a hill that you're
01:17:29.529 --> 01:17:32.430
ready to defend, send it our way. Same depth,
01:17:33.029 --> 01:17:46.449
same audacity on make me a believer. Wasn't that
01:17:46.449 --> 01:17:49.810
so fun? What a great time I had. Thank you so
01:17:49.810 --> 01:17:51.789
much. Listen, Tim, for having me on your show.
01:17:51.850 --> 01:17:55.569
Thank you for letting me release it on both of
01:17:55.569 --> 01:17:59.750
our platforms, so it's a real pod collab between
01:17:59.750 --> 01:18:02.930
the two of us. Love that. Love the podcast community
01:18:02.930 --> 01:18:07.489
for that. And I highly recommend that you go
01:18:07.489 --> 01:18:09.729
follow them. They have some amazing episodes
01:18:09.729 --> 01:18:12.329
about a lot of different topics. I noticed one
01:18:12.329 --> 01:18:14.750
of the more recent ones that came out was on
01:18:14.750 --> 01:18:17.909
natural childbirth, things that people might
01:18:17.909 --> 01:18:20.890
find controversial, and they talk about it. And
01:18:20.890 --> 01:18:24.210
I would love to know, did I make you a believer?
01:18:25.030 --> 01:18:27.750
after listening to that episode. Tell me in the
01:18:27.750 --> 01:18:29.750
comments what you thought. If you were a believer
01:18:29.750 --> 01:18:32.390
before, then it wasn't too hard to convince you.
01:18:32.630 --> 01:18:34.689
But if you were like, I've never been too sure
01:18:34.689 --> 01:18:37.489
about tarot. I always thought it was maybe a
01:18:37.489 --> 01:18:40.770
little against my religion or against my beliefs
01:18:40.770 --> 01:18:43.949
or whatever that might have, biases that might
01:18:43.949 --> 01:18:45.890
have come up for you. I would like to know what
01:18:45.890 --> 01:18:49.590
you thought. And again, thank you so much for
01:18:49.590 --> 01:18:51.989
letting me be a part of all of that. Don't forget
01:18:51.989 --> 01:18:54.350
to like and subscribe here on Practically Magic
01:18:54.350 --> 01:18:57.289
Podcast to get more information on how you can
01:18:57.289 --> 01:19:01.390
make your life magical and follow me at Prism
01:19:01.390 --> 01:19:05.289
Healing. I have both Instagram for Practically
01:19:05.289 --> 01:19:09.989
Magic Podcast and for Prism Healing, prism underscore
01:19:09.989 --> 01:19:14.569
healing or on TikTok at prism healing. So follow
01:19:14.569 --> 01:19:18.180
me in those spaces and I will. Keep providing
01:19:18.180 --> 01:19:20.859
you with more ways to make your life whimsical
01:19:20.859 --> 01:19:24.579
and magical. Go make magic, witches and wizards.
