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00:00:03.040So, are you ready to PR yourself?
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00:00:16.000We'll remove the mystery from all things PR and we'll discuss everything from our top strategies to tips and tricks and everything that you can utilize to further enhance your brand or your message.
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00:00:19.760I've been in media, I'm a journalist, and I'm also a publicist.
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00:00:26.960I am Leah Fraser, CEO of Think3Media, and your host for PR Yourself with Leah Frasier.
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00:00:28.160Let's go.
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00:00:43.840All right, and welcome back to another episode of PR Yourself with Leah Frazier, the space where entrepreneurs, creators, and go-getters learn how to elevate their message, own their narrative, and build the visibility that they deserve.
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00:00:52.240I am your host, Leah Fraser, CEO of Think Three Media, based out of Dallas, Texas, and I am here with another power-packed episode.
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00:00:54.240But today it'll just be me.
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00:01:03.520I've been wanting to do this episode for a very, very long time, but we've had just such great guests coming onto the show that it just kept getting pushed back and pushed back and pushed back.
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00:01:12.239And something happened in the media recently where I was like, I need to address this because I may do a TikTok response tonight.
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00:01:13.840I'm kind of weighing it.
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00:01:26.319I typically try not to get into the middle of things, but I just don't think that people understand where social media is headed, um, where influencer marketing has shifted.
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00:01:33.359And I've done quite a bit of presentations on this topic lately to small business owners so that they get it.
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00:01:40.480And even those who want to get into the content creation or influencer space as encouragement.
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00:01:43.760And so I've been wanting to do this episode, and now we're here.
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00:01:46.159I have been pushed to my limit.
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00:01:49.359So I hope everybody is doing great out there.
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00:01:58.000Um, go back and listen to prior episodes if you haven't already, but we're just gonna go ahead and hop into our theme for today.
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00:02:12.479As you probably have already guessed from what I just mentioned, we're gonna be talking a little bit today about um just what is happening within influencer marketing, content creation, and the whole realm of things.
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00:02:27.439So you can look at this episode from the span of the small business owner who may be thinking about utilizing influencers, or maybe you're the influencer yourself or the content creator yourself, or maybe you're like me.
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00:02:29.840I end up being a little bit of both.
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00:02:49.759And it's funny because I was actually more on before influencers became a thing, it was more like bloggers, but I was more on the blogging side before I started my business and the blog and and being an influencer ended up um allowing me to have a pathway to go full-time into building Think Three Media.
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00:02:51.120So that's part of my story.
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00:02:53.919Did a whole TED talk about it in 2018.
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00:02:56.319I'll link it in the bio if you're interested.
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00:02:58.479And that TED talk was on influencer marketing.
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00:03:01.680So this is something that very passionate about.
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00:03:05.199I read a lot of articles about, read a lot of studies about.
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00:03:12.560Um, I teach digital marketing and introduction to entrepreneurship at two universities in Texas.
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00:03:16.319Um, I'm an adjunct in digital marketing, so this is something that I know.
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00:03:21.680I'm not coming on here and giving you um, you know, my opinion.
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00:03:27.039These are things that I would teach my students of what's happening in real time and in the real world.
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00:03:30.159And I think um that's why they love me so much.
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00:03:31.439Let me tell it.
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00:03:42.080All right, so here's what I recently saw coming across my feed, more so on TikTok than anywhere else.
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00:03:48.960I was enjoying a beautiful, beautiful small mini wellness vacation in Kohler, Wisconsin.
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00:03:52.479So shout out to tourism in Kohler, Wisconsin.
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00:04:10.240They brought me out as a part of the Black Travel Summit um not too long ago to just have a press trip to experience the carriage house, which is a part of this beautiful resort called the American Club, and was having a time, was very well relaxed, all was good.
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00:04:14.479Then I get to the airport and I'm flying back to Dallas later that evening.
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00:04:30.319And I over I started to see all these videos on TikTok about good American, which, if you're into fashion or not, it was a brand originally when it was introduced, denim tea.
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00:04:38.800So think of your like all American um fashion label, but more so for women, everybody was up in arms about the denim because it was inclusive sizing.
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00:04:45.680I actually owned a couple of pairs, and then what made it really popularized was that Khloe Kardashian was behind the brand.
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00:04:54.399Now, people are arguing whether or not she still has a stake, whether she's still an investor, but I don't think that's either here nor there for our discussion today.
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00:05:11.600So apparently there was a good American pop-up that was supposed to take place in New York City on October the 14th, and the PR agency or the influencer agency sent out a mass number of emails to influencers inviting them to said pop-up.
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00:05:15.759Um, the language said that it was an exclusive pop-up.
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00:05:17.040You're invited.
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00:05:21.279If here is the time on October 14th from 11 a.m.
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00:05:22.399to 1 p.m.
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00:05:24.160I think that's what it was.
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00:05:31.120And if you we we want to show you the new collection, have a little coffee, um, mix and mingle vibes.
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00:05:33.920And if you're interested, please RSVP buy this form.
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00:05:36.000That's literally how it went.
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00:05:40.319So apparently um these influencers RSVP'd.
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00:05:43.839Some of them even flew to New York for the opportunity.
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00:05:54.879There were some that were already positioned within the city, or maybe they were, if if you know anything about New York, if you're in one of the neighboring like major cities, you can just take the train in into the city and be fine.
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00:05:57.279So there was a lot of influencers that did that.
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00:06:06.879And then apparently, what I was seeing on TikTok too was that good Americans circle back around to these influencers and asked them, hey, thanks for RSVPing.
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00:06:11.680Here's a slot of times that you can come to the pop-up.
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00:06:22.720We want to make sure that you, you know, I guess they were scheduling the time so that they can stagger the crowd, um, where people can get in, look at the clothing, potentially try on the clothing.
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00:06:28.079I did see shop, so they there was an expectation that they would be shopping the collection.
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00:06:30.319And that was that.
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00:06:32.720So they all chose their specific time slot.
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00:06:39.839But the problem was is that when they arrived for said time, the line was so freaking long down the street.
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00:06:47.600They said there was hundreds of people, and uh they had to wait in the line for a very, very long time.
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00:06:49.600And some of them just ended up leaving.
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00:06:52.560They were like, I didn't know like this was open to the public.
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00:06:55.040I thought, you know, it was just for the influencers.
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00:06:56.480We chose a time slot.
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00:07:02.079They were really, really upset with how the situation was handled.
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00:07:05.199There was even a point to where it got closer to the end of the event.
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00:07:12.480I guess the representative from allegedly from Good American came outside of the event and said, you know what, we're not taking any more people today.
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00:07:13.680Thank you for coming.
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00:07:15.360We're gonna shut the event down.
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00:07:16.639It's about to end.
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00:07:20.319And unfortunately, you know, you won't be able to come in.
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00:07:23.360We're kind of like at our capacity or whatever was said.
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00:07:27.120And yeah, so it was just really, really bad.
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00:07:33.519So, what happens nowadays if you tick off an influencer or a content creator, what do they do?
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00:07:39.439They go right back online and they tell you their experience, whether it's good or bad, right?
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00:07:57.279And so that's what I was seeing from the airport in Wisconsin was the influencers who were really, really upset with how the situation was handled, with the amount of people that were invited, that it wasn't necessarily an exclusive shopping experience or an exclusive brand opportunity.
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00:08:00.319And they were just going in.
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00:08:03.120So I know you're probably like, Leah, what does that have?
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00:08:07.360Anything to do with what we're talking about today.
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00:08:19.199Well, let me before I get into it, let me just say this someone being an and I hate the word influencer, but someone who has been in this game for a long time.
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00:08:22.800You will get invites like that.
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00:08:28.720And on the other side, you don't know how many people they've sent that to.
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00:08:34.000And I am seeing a culture now amongst brands where they over-invite.
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00:08:42.080Maybe that's to make sure that the room is full, maybe when it's free, um, to avoid cancellations or whatever the situation is like that.
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00:08:52.080But typically, when there's invites like that, if it's really like one of those exclusive brand opportunities, you generally will get something free.
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00:09:02.000Like, so for example, there was a pop-up shop not too long ago um from a retail company, and um they send us the invite.
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00:09:06.720I said, Yes, I wanted to go, and they wanted us to come already dressed in their clothing.
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00:09:11.200So they sent us the lookbook, and it was unreleased styles.
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00:09:17.600I got to choose several looks, and they wanted us to arrive at the event in you know, their looks.
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00:09:27.919So there's different layers and tiers to influencer marketing, and I that's I just want to make that very clear as we go into this next subject.
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00:09:31.840So a lot of the influencers obviously went online, they expressed their disgust.
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00:09:41.679And what I was seeing in the comments from people was saying that, well, you know, there's a sense of entitlement and it's funny because how are you an influencer?
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00:09:43.919You only have 1,000 followers.
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00:10:02.799There was another young lady on TikTok who had 4,000 followers and she was defending herself like, well, I have 20,000 on Instagram, and so there were these people trying to figure out, like, well, of course you would have got got because you only have a thousand followers, so they just want to invite all the people who want to be famous or who want to be seen.
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00:10:25.360And you guys don't know how this really worked, and you got played, we don't feel sorry for you, and it was just really, really uneducated, and I would just say, just nasty behavior um to bash these the these influencers for getting an invitation and having an expectation that, hey, if I set a time, I'm gonna get into the event.
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00:10:33.279And there were influencers who said, like, look, I had to arrange for child care, or I I'm not full-time.
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00:10:37.120So I had to take off of work to come attend this to not even get in.
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00:10:43.120So a bit of transparency would have been nice, um, or or something.
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00:10:49.440So the PR firm who handled it, or the influencer agency, yeah, it was just it, it was a it was a fail.
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00:10:50.639It was a fail.
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00:10:53.840So here's the problem that I have.
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00:11:07.519The one statement, there's so many that I can hit on in this situation, but what is going to be most important to you as the listener is knowing that there are different tiers to influencers.
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00:11:36.799You have your mega influencers, you have celebrity style uh influencers, and then you have macro influencers who have the hundreds of thousands of followers, and then you get into your micro influencers who are maybe between 10,000 to 50,000 of worth of followers, and then you're gonna have your very nano influencers who are gonna be less than about 5,000 followers or something of that nature.
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00:11:39.120So you can go look up those numbers.
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00:11:41.519I'm just kind of guesstimating off the top of my head.
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00:12:09.360The most important thing to remember is that there's different layers to being an influencer, and within those different layers, over time, and I want to say over the past decade, it has been measured and tried and true, and with the algorithm changing and all of that, that there are specific styles of influencers that are proven to have more engagement despite the number of followers.
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00:12:34.399The problem is that over time, when followers were introduced and likes and validation, and we were getting rewarded from it for the number of followers that we had, we kind of got brainwashed as to that is the ultimate epitome of whether or not you're a good content creator and whether or not you're a good influencer, is based off your follower numbers.
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00:12:37.840And we are not in that day and age anymore.
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00:13:03.360From the brand side, and maybe you as a small business owner, you don't have the capital to invest into someone that has over a hundred thousand followers and wants to charge you 2,500 to 5,000 and even higher for one Instagram reel for it not to give you one sale or any type of conversion to your brand.
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00:13:10.080And what I saw happening over time was that there were a lot of investments into the larger following crowd.
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00:13:13.360And this is not to diss anybody that have larger followings.
00:13:13.600 -->
00:13:18.240There are some in Dallas that convert for me and my clients and our events every single time.
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00:13:24.720And I absolutely tell my clients, sign off on that paycheck because you're gonna get every bit of that back plus more.
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00:13:43.919But across the field, I would say when we when you're measuring your return on investment or your ROI, there was this big disparity between the number of followers and the return on investment for the brand or the advertisers at one point in time.
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00:13:50.159And so they found that the micro influencers, so that, and again, this number changes over time.
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00:13:51.679Don't hold my feet to the fire.
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00:13:59.840But those that had under 50,000 followers, and at one point in time, it was like those that had around 10,000 and 15,000 followers.
00:14:00.080 -->
00:14:11.039It was found that those smaller um micro influencers tend to have a more engaged following.
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00:14:22.639They have tend to have built a community, and normally with them, you could find that they had like these niche areas that they really thrived in.
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00:14:37.360So um you may have one that uh micro influencers that are particularly invested in, you know, family, travel, wellness, fashion, and they're really, really good at it.
00:14:37.519 -->
00:14:57.120And the followers, though those tens, that 10,000 or that 15,000 that really follow them, it's a higher percent of engagement with that because they've actually built a community versus those who have the followers of 300,000 or more because you just don't know what you're gonna get.
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00:15:07.919You don't, the audience makeup is so vast that as a brand, I may want to put my money with the smaller count because I know you have this community, it's built.
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00:15:24.480You I'm looking at your videos, you have consistent engagement, and I can bank on that a little bit more than if I go with this higher following, and I just don't know if there's brand alignment with such a massive audience and for my my niche product, right?
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00:15:49.919Another thing that was affecting the numbers for these higher followings was that when we were putting so many eggs in the follower count basket, people were then engaging in unethical activities, as in buying followers to increase their follower count so that they could get the brand deals and take the money away from the brands in their advertising agencies.
00:15:50.159 -->
00:16:03.759And again, were not able to convert because the followers that they bought either weren't necessarily engaged followers, they weren't followers that really were going to be engaged with a lot of the posts that they were gonna do.
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00:16:15.600And some of them were bots, they were robots, you know, and so we had that period of time where maybe you were in the game and you look to the left and right, and it's like, damn, look at Susie.
00:16:15.759 -->
00:16:33.840Susie, like me and Susie started out in this together, and I'm still at my 10,000 followers, and Susie just blew up to a hundred thousand followers, and then you found out later down the line that Susie had paid for those extra followers because she tried to fast track into her influencer success.
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00:16:35.679So that's what was happening.
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00:16:51.039I'm trying to give you guys all this context because it's very fascinating when you've watched this just shift over the last two decades and to where we are now, which it's actually to everybody's advantage if they knew what was going on.
00:16:51.279 -->
00:16:58.000So, anyway, so when I see the comment of y'all only have a thousand followers, it's funny to see y'all complaining, y'all only got 4,000 followers.
00:16:58.159 -->
00:16:59.759They knew they could do that to you.
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00:17:01.919Two things could be true at the same time.
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00:17:11.359Yes, good American did know that they could mass email these fault, these nano influencers, right?
00:17:11.680 -->
00:17:15.839But somebody said that they have seen people there that have 400,000 followers or more.
00:17:16.000 -->
00:17:20.079So maybe it was a blend across all of the different influencer buckets.
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00:17:20.880Who knows?
00:17:21.200 -->
00:17:23.759But I just want to focus on the nano influencers.
00:17:24.720 -->
00:17:29.359So somebody was like, you know, you only have a thousand followers.
00:17:29.519 -->
00:17:32.640You only have 4,000 followers, like pretty much just shut up, you know.
00:17:32.799 -->
00:17:44.000And you guys want to be or feel like you're important so much that of course you would take off and abandon your child and go to this good American quote unquote pop-up.
00:17:44.160 -->
00:17:49.039And one girl's like, No way, I'm going to a pop-up, um, because that's exactly what it is.
00:17:49.200 -->
00:17:50.000It's a pop-up.
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00:17:55.200So what why would you expect that you would be treated differently or that you're any more special?
00:17:55.359 -->
00:18:03.839And I'm like, okay, accountability needs to be had to the brand because they knew the language to use to get the people out there.
00:18:04.079 -->
00:18:08.079Do we live in a society right now where everybody wants to feel important?
00:18:08.240 -->
00:18:10.319But isn't that just a basic human need?
00:18:10.480 -->
00:18:27.839Like if you go on Maslow's um hierarchy of needs, I know we talk about it a lot in marketing, but one I feel like one of those needs, and I'll go look it up here in a in a moment, is that need to feel important or a safety or something around that.
00:18:28.079 -->
00:18:40.799So if a marketer like Good Americans team knows that people want to feel that in order to engage with you, then them using the words exclusive pop up.
00:18:41.119 -->
00:18:42.640You're invited.
00:18:43.039 -->
00:18:49.119Um, I forget what else was in the them coming back and asking for a specific time slot.
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00:18:50.640Yes, it was intentional.
00:18:50.720 -->
00:18:52.799They knew what they were doing.
00:18:53.359 -->
00:18:59.119Um, but why are we blaming the influencer for coming to an event that they were invited to?
00:18:59.279 -->
00:19:08.720Like that that's where we're at right now because we're mad that they got invited and there's this entitlement and this sense of self that we're putting onto them when maybe that wasn't the case.
00:19:08.880 -->
00:19:14.400Now, I will say there are some influencers that have this grandiose sense of self.
00:19:14.480 -->
00:19:23.279And I do feel like social media has contributed um negatively to our mental health, it's shifted our psyche.
00:19:23.440 -->
00:19:38.640So I'm not saying that that doesn't exist, but I want to make sure that accountability is had for the brand and not necessarily targeting these influencers for being upset when anybody would get upset if you waste my time like that, and then even really apologize.
00:19:38.880 -->
00:19:41.119So that's that.
00:19:41.359 -->
00:19:46.799So let's go back to what was said, and I'll tell you what's happening in social media now.
00:19:46.960 -->
00:19:52.000So for them to be like, you only have a thousand followers or 4,000 followers, get over it.
00:19:52.240 -->
00:19:57.440And one girl was like, How can you call yourself an influencer with only a thousand followers?
00:19:57.759 -->
00:20:07.519And I reply back, it's called being a nano influencer, which I know she probably had to go and look up, and she ain't said nothing back to me because I'm right.
00:20:07.839 -->
00:20:11.519Then I know that I'm right because I literally study this shit.
00:20:12.000 -->
00:20:18.720So, anyway, so here's what's happening in social media and why nano influencers are important.
00:20:19.440 -->
00:20:33.759Because these nano influencers of these thousand followers, four thousand followers, again, they have this super engaged audience, or we we are, you know, we're surmising that they do.
00:20:34.319 -->
00:20:42.559And when they post, and maybe it's their immediate ecosystem, maybe it's folks that are really engaged with their content.
00:20:42.640 -->
00:20:48.160And sometimes when you do run the percentages in the number, their engagement is way higher.
00:20:48.400 -->
00:20:52.640So you have these influencers who have this very engaged content.
00:20:52.799 -->
00:21:26.240So why not have a higher percentage or a higher number of the nano influencers where you know if that they post about this this good American pop-up, they show the clothes, they do this and that, and their audience is locked in and engaged, even if it's just a thousand people, versus inviting that 150,000 follower influencer who maybe less than you know 1% is actually engaged with their fashion content, just so you can say you had a super macro influencer there, right?
00:21:26.559 -->
00:21:32.880So, of course, they did a mass email to all of the nano influencers.
00:21:33.519 -->
00:21:44.559Nothing wrong with that, because from an ROI perspective, your gold, their audiences, what we're seeing with data and stats is that those audiences are way more engaged.
00:21:44.720 -->
00:21:52.799There's more trust that is built with those nano influencers that will then potentially get their audiences and their customers to do what?
00:21:52.960 -->
00:21:53.680To buy.
00:21:53.920 -->
00:21:54.240Okay.
00:21:54.720 -->
00:21:59.759So another reason outside of engagement, why this is super duper important.
00:22:00.240 -->
00:22:04.640Important is because social media in its entire scope has shifted.
00:22:04.799 -->
00:22:07.839I don't know if you've noticed it, it is not the same.
00:22:08.640 -->
00:22:20.559There is not as much if there was a weighted scale or a pie chart we can draw, there is not as much weight given to how many followers you've had, you have as it was in the past.
00:22:20.960 -->
00:22:30.079And so, but we have been conditioned over time, over these decades, to think higher follower count equals better influencer.
00:22:30.319 -->
00:22:43.519And now that we have measured things, we have data, we have stats, we have software to show that not so much nano influencer over here can convert and sell the shit out of my product.
00:22:43.920 -->
00:22:57.759And I want to put my money in her because she her thousand followers are all moms that are like her versus 300,000 over here, where maybe they're just there to look at you know your fashion, but they're not necessarily going to that next level to buy.
00:22:58.000 -->
00:22:59.200So that's where we're at.
00:22:59.359 -->
00:23:02.880And so the shift, it's funny because I noticed the shift happening.
00:23:02.960 -->
00:23:17.279I don't know if any of you have noticed it, but if you're on Facebook and all of a sudden you see this viral post and you'll see up probably to the right hand side, I'm kind of envisioning it, it'll be a blue wording call and it'll say follow.
00:23:17.599 -->
00:23:26.319And it's not necessarily somebody you already follow, but maybe the content that they're posting is stuff that you would typically follow.
00:23:26.559 -->
00:23:26.880Okay.
00:23:27.519 -->
00:23:37.680So pay attention to that on Facebook, and it'll be several of those posts in a row, or maybe they're sporadic, but it's more than the people that you're actually connected with.
00:23:37.920 -->
00:23:41.359And then if you hop on TikTok, it's the same thing.
00:23:41.599 -->
00:23:56.480You'll get on TikTok, and not necessarily are you seeing the videos of the folks that you necessarily follow, but maybe you're seeing people that you don't follow, but they're talking about the things that you actually like.
00:23:56.640 -->
00:24:05.759So the algorithm has trained itself to know what it is that you want to see coming down your feed.
00:24:05.920 -->
00:24:08.559And I really didn't have language to put with it.
00:24:08.720 -->
00:24:11.599I noticed that it was happening because I'm like, why am I seeing this?
00:24:11.759 -->
00:24:15.119But okay, this tea is kind of juicy, but I don't know this person.
00:24:15.839 -->
00:24:22.880There was a shift because people were sick of seeing ads, they were sick of being pushed stuff, sold stuff.
00:24:23.200 -->
00:24:30.720And half the time, if you were following somebody, it was a family member or a friend, it was kind of out of, you know, like, well, I kind of have to.
00:24:30.960 -->
00:24:41.119And there was a shift on social media where it was like, hey, let's just start pushing you content to keep you in the platform because that's always gonna be the end goal.
00:24:41.200 -->
00:24:47.519If you don't remember anything else, is to keep people engaged in the platform as long as possible.
00:24:47.680 -->
00:24:59.680And if that means I've got to show you somebody's content from five counties over, but it's stuff that you like to see and it keeps you in this platform for another hour or two hours, we're gonna do it.
00:24:59.839 -->
00:25:00.960And that's where we're at.
00:25:01.119 -->
00:25:08.880You'll see it a lot on Facebook, you'll see it a lot on Instagram, especially on the Explore page, and you're definitely gonna see it a lot on TikTok.
00:25:09.039 -->
00:25:12.720So, what does that have to do with these nano influencers?
00:25:12.960 -->
00:25:20.880Well, because the platform is going to push your content to anybody without them having to follow you.
00:25:21.359 -->
00:25:31.759So, as long as you're making good content and you're creating content that somebody wants to engage with, whether they follow you or not, the algorithm will push it to them.
00:25:32.640 -->
00:25:38.559Gary V calls it, um, interestingly enough, he did a Substack post.
00:25:38.640 -->
00:25:44.240It was way back in March, and I remember when it dropped on my feed, and I was like, this is what I've been trying to say, but I didn't have language for it.
00:25:44.400 -->
00:25:48.480And he titled it, Social Media is dead, interest media is here.
00:25:48.720 -->
00:25:49.920He called it interest media.
00:25:50.000 -->
00:25:51.519And again, love Gary Vee.
00:25:51.680 -->
00:25:55.119Glad he was able to really put some language to it.
00:25:55.359 -->
00:26:01.359So he says, Social media died four years ago, and for the last four years, we've been in interest media.
00:26:01.519 -->
00:26:07.680You no longer get the content on your feeds from the people you follow, like your cousin or your best friend from middle school.
00:26:07.920 -->
00:26:11.119You get content based on what you've recently been into.
00:26:11.599 -->
00:26:22.240Interest media is a term that's used for the current state of what it was known as social media, where you get content that's based on what you're currently interested in.
00:26:22.720 -->
00:26:24.160So I'll pause right there.
00:26:24.319 -->
00:26:31.359So if you're currently interested in like me right now, I'm really just trying to get a basic, flawless makeup look.
00:26:31.599 -->
00:26:40.240So all I get now on my YouTube are like videos on beginners doing makeup, but making it really look like it's professionally done, right?
00:26:40.400 -->
00:26:46.240When I'm over on the TikTok side, I'm definitely interested in skincare and beauty.
00:26:46.319 -->
00:26:54.400So I get a lot of those videos more so from content creators that I am not following, but maybe I like the products or what they're doing.
00:26:54.480 -->
00:26:59.839So it's pushing me what I want to see, and the algorithm is learning you, okay?
00:27:00.480 -->
00:27:14.240So this is the current state of the internet, he says, and very important because interest media allows platforms to keep users on the platform longer because you're seeing things you're actually into now, not people you used to follow.
00:27:14.480 -->
00:27:18.720Your ability to change what you're seeing in your feed is very, very, very real.
00:27:18.799 -->
00:27:27.759And all you have to do is use the search function in these platforms, search new topics and engage with that content, or use the explore page and engage with it.
00:27:28.000 -->
00:27:39.039Or you can type, or you may have seen this too, where you can just say not interested, and it will not show you that content that you're no longer interested in, or even more interactive on threads, what you're able to do.
00:27:39.200 -->
00:27:47.200And this is me, not Gary V speaking, is you can literally type on threads, dear Algo, please show me more of.
00:27:47.519 -->
00:27:55.759And when uh the Michael Jackson movie came out, I was like, please show me more of the people who are fans of Michael Jackson than those who are bashing the movie.
00:27:56.000 -->
00:28:04.400So my entire algorithm changed only to those folks that had seen the movie six, seven, eight times, like literally within hours.
00:28:04.880 -->
00:28:07.759So interest media is kink.
00:28:08.079 -->
00:28:14.240And so Gary says, um, this new interest media era really opens up a lot more.
00:28:14.880 -->
00:28:23.440Um, prior to the social media era, it gave the prior social media era gave advantages to people who had amassed a lot of followers.
00:28:23.599 -->
00:28:44.240And he says, but in this area era, it is so much easier to break out and create a following because if you're making content that resonates with the audience in whatever subject matter, whether it's entertainment, escapism, whether it's information, the speed in which you can gain traction is substantially different than any other era of social media prior.
00:28:44.480 -->
00:28:50.559And he gives a lot of it, a lot of the credit to TikTok, he calls it TikTok vacation.
00:28:51.039 -->
00:28:56.000Um, but I will link this article, very, very fascinating stuff.
00:28:56.160 -->
00:29:05.599But this is the crux of my argument on why when somebody is saying you just have a thousand followers, you're nobody, where I'm like, no, you're the idiot.
00:29:05.920 -->
00:29:17.839Because in the in the world of interest media, if you are creating content that someone wants to see, whether they follow you or not, it's going to hit their feed.
00:29:18.079 -->
00:29:29.200So if you are a TikToker with a thousand followers and you just keep creating content and keep creating content and keep creating content, TikTok is going to send it down the feeds of those who want to see it.
00:29:29.440 -->
00:29:35.279Now, it is your job to make content that they want to engage with so that you do increase it.
00:29:35.440 -->
00:29:42.720You're trying to more so increase your views or your engagement versus whether or not they come over and follow you.
00:29:42.960 -->
00:29:47.680That would be great, but that's no longer the end-all be-all goal.
00:29:48.000 -->
00:29:53.599So, a great example of this would be um, I like to do a lot of book reviews.
00:29:53.680 -->
00:29:56.480And so on TikTok, it's called Book Talk.
00:29:56.640 -->
00:30:05.039And I had written this article for the Dallas Observer on a book that was suppressed out of the Fort Worth, Texas area area.
00:30:05.119 -->
00:30:06.640And it was suppressed for 86 years.
00:30:06.720 -->
00:30:07.839And me, I'm a book nerd.
00:30:07.920 -->
00:30:09.039I thought this was interesting.
00:30:09.200 -->
00:30:10.480Let me just hop on TikTok.
00:30:10.559 -->
00:30:14.400Like once the article came out, let me hop on TikTok and tell people about this book.
00:30:14.559 -->
00:30:15.200So exciting.
00:30:15.359 -->
00:30:15.519Da.
00:30:16.720 -->
00:30:19.759I get on there, and that video is still going crazy.
00:30:20.240 -->
00:30:26.240And it pushed it down the feeds of those people who like to explore banned books.
00:30:26.400 -->
00:30:29.839So I the stuff that I got in my DMs was fascinating.
00:30:30.000 -->
00:30:33.519Some of it was scary, fascinating stuff.
00:30:33.839 -->
00:30:44.400Um, uh, the book talk community, I got a lot of folks out of Fort Worth that wanted me to read this book and give my opinion on that book.
00:30:44.640 -->
00:30:57.359So, again, because my video was more so along the lines of something that they were interested in and it quickly picked up engagement, TikTok was sending it everywhere.
00:30:57.519 -->
00:31:04.000And at that time, I only had like maybe I think 1,700 followers on TikTok.
00:31:04.240 -->
00:31:14.720I still don't have that much, but I will say from that book alone, that book review, I think I got 200 new followers on TikTok.
00:31:15.279 -->
00:31:37.279And then I recently posted a small snippet of an interview I did with a very popular pastor out of Atlanta, and that pushed my account well over 2,000 followers because again, it went to the people who were interested in his sermons and his ideologies and faith-based um communities and things like that.
00:31:37.599 -->
00:31:40.799And that video just took off.
00:31:41.599 -->
00:31:50.559So you don't have to have the millions of followers like you had to back in the day to be successful, to have views.
00:31:50.720 -->
00:31:53.519Now, how do you capitalize on all of this?
00:31:53.680 -->
00:32:02.160So, even though you're this nano influencer or you want to use this nano influencer, or this these people are bashing these nano influencers, is, and I've heard this.
00:32:02.240 -->
00:32:04.720I went to Vid Summit a couple of weeks ago.
00:32:04.880 -->
00:32:05.920You hear it all the time.
00:32:06.079 -->
00:32:11.680It's like you gotta niche down, which is so hard for me because I love so many different things.
00:32:11.759 -->
00:32:16.160I love wellness, I love travel, I love fashion, I love beauty, I love skincare, I love fragrance.
00:32:16.480 -->
00:32:30.480And in order for the algorithm to get to know you and your content and to continually push it to these feeds that want to see and hear from you, it doesn't want to confuse your new followers or the people who hit your page.
00:32:30.640 -->
00:32:32.799Um, and you don't want to confuse the algorithm.
00:32:32.880 -->
00:32:38.319So you do have to niche down in order to capitalize.
00:32:38.480 -->
00:32:41.440So that's just kind of like I kind of went off on a tangent.
00:32:41.759 -->
00:32:55.599But this whole era of interest media is why I'm arguing against the fact that the person, the people on TikTok saying these influencers didn't matter, you're wrong.
00:32:56.240 -->
00:32:58.960You're wrong, you're wrong.
00:32:59.359 -->
00:33:08.000And honestly, um, I've seen it with my videos where TikTok will there you will push it down certain algorithms.
00:33:08.079 -->
00:33:10.960I'm interacting with women who like a particular fragrance.
00:33:11.200 -->
00:33:15.599I'm interacting with plus size women where we talk about plus size fashion.
00:33:15.839 -->
00:33:17.759Um, it just depends.
00:33:17.920 -->
00:33:21.680And these people are not my followers, they're not following me.
00:33:22.640 -->
00:33:39.200Um, and being looped up with TikTok shop, hey, at the end of the day, if they just buy the thing that I'm selling, I'm winning, you know, which a lot of us, you know, we're making money from TikTok shop and some of these other platforms, and we are nano influencers.
00:33:39.359 -->
00:33:44.240Um, I'm more micro on Instagram, but I definitely make more money on TikTok.
00:33:44.319 -->
00:33:45.839And that's the dichotomy.
00:33:45.920 -->
00:33:56.960I I have 17,200 followers on Instagram and just 2,058 on TikTok, but I make more money, I have monetized my TikTok platform to through TikTok shop.
00:33:58.079 -->
00:34:08.400So with these influencers that have a thousand followers and the 4,000 followers and in this era of interest media, why am I telling you this?
00:34:08.960 -->
00:34:15.760Because as a small business owner, if you're a small business owner listening, you can use this as a part of your strategy.
00:34:16.559 -->
00:34:37.679Knowing that you can get these nano influencers, um, you can engage with them, have them a part of your events, you know, come up with a way that you guys can partner and know that they have a more concentrated audience, some of them do, and that they have a larger ability to convert.
00:34:38.880 -->
00:34:55.920Now, where people do take advantage of nano influencers, and which I do not agree with, but it happens, and I'm sure it happened here with Good American, is that typically when you have micro influencers or higher, they do come with a pretty hefty price point.
00:34:56.159 -->
00:35:05.360And the pricing within influencer marketing and with content creation often is tied to how many followers follow you.
00:35:05.599 -->
00:35:20.639And so I do see where nano influencers may get taken advantage of, like with Good American, where they're like, oh, well, they're not gonna come back with a media kit and tell us that it's gonna be like we have to fly them here for them to show up and put them up at a hotel.
00:35:20.880 -->
00:35:40.320I think they knew that they could reach out to hundreds and the majority would just say yes because they love influencer opportunities, versus once you get a little bit higher on the scale based off of followers because they're still in that old school of thought, where the micro and macro influencers, like, uh-uh-uh, you want me to do what?
00:35:40.480 -->
00:35:47.440You want me to come and create content at your event that helps you to make money and I don't get anything in my pocket, I don't even get a free gift.
00:35:47.599 -->
00:35:49.519No, ain't gonna do it.
00:35:49.840 -->
00:36:01.679So I think there is this taking advantage of some of these nano influencers who don't know the game, but to say that they're nothing and they're nobody because their followers ain't up there, y'all don't have a clue.
00:36:01.920 -->
00:36:03.440You don't have a clue.
00:36:03.760 -->
00:36:13.360I think in one of the prior episodes, I paid I played a clip, excuse me, um, about TikTok shop that I had learned when I first started getting into TikTok shop.
00:36:13.679 -->
00:36:26.719And what was encouraging about why I decided to dive into TikTok shop was because the women on the panel ranged everywhere from 12,000 followers on TikTok all the way to about 40,000, but no one had over 50,000.
00:36:26.960 -->
00:36:32.800And these women were making$40,000 a month on TikTok shop.
00:36:33.679 -->
00:36:50.639If that doesn't tell you that follower count does not matter, that in this game of interest media, they were creating three to five videos for TikTok a day, or three to five videos per product, um, and pushing it down TikTok's algorithm per day.
00:36:50.960 -->
00:36:57.199And if it converted to sales, they were all making 40,000 or more a month because they told us.
00:36:57.840 -->
00:37:06.800And again, I was shocked with the girl that was like, Look, I only do these two brands or these two or three brands, and that's all who I create for.
00:37:07.199 -->
00:37:12.400And every month I'm clearing forty thousand dollars, and she only had 12,000 followers.
00:37:12.559 -->
00:37:14.480And I was like, What am I doing?
00:37:14.639 -->
00:37:16.880What am I doing with my life?
00:37:20.079 -->
00:37:35.039And that's when I knew that this interest media game was at a whole nother level because it just you can have a 12,000 follower person clearing$40,000 a month on TikTok.
00:37:35.280 -->
00:37:42.480And TikTok is the one pushing the content down the feeds of the people that wants to see it.
00:37:42.880 -->
00:37:47.679You don't have to work as hard or worry about, oh my God, are my followers gonna buy?
00:37:47.920 -->
00:37:54.559F your followers, we just want the content to be good enough so that TikTok says, I'm gonna send it over here and we're gonna send it over here.
00:37:54.639 -->
00:37:57.440This person's looking for what you're talking about here, here, here, and there.
00:37:57.599 -->
00:38:01.119And then your video obviously has to be good enough to convert.
00:38:01.679 -->
00:38:02.480That is it.
00:38:02.719 -->
00:38:09.760But the extra work and worry of, oh my God, I don't have that many followers, nobody's gonna see it, we are not in that era anymore.
00:38:10.000 -->
00:38:11.679We are not in that era anymore.
00:38:11.920 -->
00:38:28.159And I can't begin to tell you how I've just started posting my travels, posting my interviews that I get that are exclusive, um, and allowing the algorithm to do what old algo wants to do with it.
00:38:28.480 -->
00:38:32.559And the last couple of posts that I've had have reached well over.
00:38:32.639 -->
00:38:37.199I think the one with the pastor on Instagram alone was at 70,000 views.
00:38:37.440 -->
00:38:41.760And I think on Facebook, the last time I checked, there was over 400 shares.
00:38:42.400 -->
00:38:44.320I don't know any of those people.
00:38:45.280 -->
00:38:46.239I don't.
00:38:49.199 -->
00:38:52.239So that's where we are in interest media.
00:38:52.480 -->
00:38:59.920So if you're a small business owner, just to wrap it up, drop the obsession with follower accounts.
00:39:00.239 -->
00:39:17.360Find those that are hyperlocal to you or that are within your niche that maybe have between that one to five thousand follower count, because that's where we're at, and that's where we're seeing that those are the types of accounts that will convert or have the highest forms of engagement.
00:39:17.440 -->
00:39:23.440But not you don't have to leave out the micro influencers or the macro, but I'm saying don't count out the nanos either.
00:39:23.599 -->
00:39:27.840Don't look at them as if their content isn't nothing, because that's not what the data shows.
00:39:28.079 -->
00:39:28.719All right.
00:39:30.719 -->
00:39:46.159Also, um, on the flip side, if you're an influencer or you want to get into content creation, what I want you to do is leave at the door the mindset that you have to amass all of these followers because we're we're not in that era anymore.
00:39:46.320 -->
00:39:52.480Gary V said that it was four years um that we've been past that or that it's been this shift.
00:39:52.559 -->
00:39:57.039I've recently seen the largest shift with it in the past year or so.
00:39:57.440 -->
00:39:59.199Um, so get rid of that.
00:39:59.360 -->
00:40:06.000If you want to start now feeding the engine, putting your content out there, just do it.
00:40:06.239 -->
00:40:08.159Really, it's a consistency game.
00:40:08.320 -->
00:40:12.159And honestly, I was on TikTok today, and one girl says she does 30 videos a day.
00:40:12.320 -->
00:40:12.960God bless her.
00:40:13.039 -->
00:40:14.800I mean, that's her full-time job.
00:40:15.039 -->
00:40:17.599I struggle with just getting one video out.
00:40:18.480 -->
00:40:28.000Um, but because we're in the era of interest media, she knows that she could push out 30 videos and it may not even go to the people that are following her.
00:40:28.079 -->
00:40:29.039So why should she care?
00:40:29.280 -->
00:40:36.159She doesn't, she's not of the mindset that, like, oh my God, I'm going to totally annoy all the people that follow me.
00:40:36.320 -->
00:40:48.320If I do 30 videos a day, sweetheart doesn't care because she knows that video one may go down one trail, video two may go down another, and the people around her may not even see but video five and video thirty.
00:40:48.480 -->
00:40:49.840So why should you care?
00:40:50.079 -->
00:40:53.679It's really at the helm of the algorithm.
00:40:54.000 -->
00:41:05.760That is what's happening is that if you're going to be in the realm of being an influencer and being a content creator, this is the time before they shift it again.
00:41:05.920 -->
00:41:08.480There's no better time to get into it.
00:41:08.719 -->
00:41:10.639What do you have to lose?
00:41:11.280 -->
00:41:13.599And get after it.
00:41:13.920 -->
00:41:15.199Just get after it.
00:41:15.519 -->
00:41:18.159I really suggest that you guys, I'm gonna relink.
00:41:18.559 -->
00:41:33.840I just did an episode on TikTok shop with Carrie Bonner, who uh is actually a brand, and she uses those influencers to help sell her product, so that could be the other side for you guys to listen to, but they're so, so, so, so interconnected.
00:41:34.000 -->
00:41:40.480So, all I'm gonna say is don't discount the little people because they're making the largest impact.
00:41:40.719 -->
00:41:41.039Okay.
00:41:41.360 -->
00:41:42.079And that's it.
00:41:42.239 -->
00:41:46.559And now I've just got to decide whether I want to go on TikTok and enter that realm of an argument.
00:41:46.719 -->
00:41:47.519I don't know.
00:41:47.679 -->
00:41:51.360I don't I don't know.
00:41:52.000 -->
00:42:00.400It's so I can't think of the last thing that I wanted to tell you guys about um this new wave of interest media.
00:42:00.559 -->
00:42:04.880I will say if you're gonna get into it for yourselves, always remember to niche down.
00:42:05.039 -->
00:42:15.519I'm saying this from a place of knowing, but also a place of um that I haven't quite done it myself because I'm just a person that likes to be involved in everything else.
00:42:15.599 -->
00:42:29.360But the most successful influencers right now are those that are speaking to a specific niche, they're creating the videos, they're sending it down the trail um every single day.
00:42:29.599 -->
00:42:31.119And they call it post and ghost.
00:42:31.280 -->
00:42:32.480They're posting and ghosting.
00:42:32.559 -->
00:42:42.000They post and they ghost, they post and they ghost, they're and they're not looking back, they're not questioning it, they're not saying, Oh my god, I'm gonna be um judged.
00:42:42.159 -->
00:42:44.159They're posting and ghosting.
00:42:44.400 -->
00:42:48.159And in my world, at one point, I was doing three videos on TikTok a day.
00:42:48.400 -->
00:42:57.840The people that I saw at the TikTok shop event in Dallas were at five videos per product um per day, I guess.
00:42:58.159 -->
00:43:01.679And I saw a girl today that does 30 videos a day.
00:43:02.079 -->
00:43:18.480But let me tell you, I was on a call with TikTok um probably a couple months ago, where they were giving us the stats of how many people on TikTok were only there consuming videos and how many creators there were.
00:43:18.559 -->
00:43:24.639And I know you know there was a huge disparity, so they just need creators, need creators, need creators.
00:43:24.880 -->
00:43:38.960And he was saying that the number of videos that they need to feed the consumption of people who are watching videos on TikTok is so low, like they don't have enough to keep up with the demand.
00:43:39.599 -->
00:44:07.840And so, because of that, if you are creating like this girl that's doing 30 videos and you're dumping your videos and videos, videos down there, and let's say on the TikTok shop side, TikTok has these agreements with these brands, they're doing everything they can to send your content down the feeds of those who are going to interact with it because they are trying to feed the consumption.
00:44:08.239 -->
00:44:09.920So, why not get in the game?
00:44:10.239 -->
00:44:16.000That's why the nano influencers are more than what we're giving them credit for.
00:44:16.880 -->
00:44:24.400They're more than that because there's not enough content in the engine to feed the consumption that's out there.
00:44:24.559 -->
00:44:38.000So whether you have a thousand followers, 50,000 followers, or 500,000 followers, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook are gonna send that content down the feeds of the people who will most likely engage with it.
00:44:38.159 -->
00:44:40.639Follower count does not matter.
00:44:42.079 -->
00:44:51.679All they care about is can I feed your consumption and feed you to the point to where you can stay in here for hours upon hours upon hours?
00:44:51.760 -->
00:44:57.840And I don't care if that comes from influencer A that has 50 followers or influencer B who has 500,000.
00:44:58.000 -->
00:44:58.800That's where we're at.
00:44:58.880 -->
00:45:01.599And that's all I want you to get out of today's episode.
00:45:01.920 -->
00:45:05.760Okay, so what are you gonna create?
00:45:06.000 -->
00:45:13.440And if you're not a creator and you're a small business owner, are you gonna shift your strategy to incorporate these nano influencers?
00:45:13.599 -->
00:45:19.440Now that you know that follower count is kind of not as substantial right now.
00:45:19.679 -->
00:45:21.039What are you gonna do?
00:45:21.360 -->
00:45:22.719What are you gonna do?
00:45:23.119 -->
00:45:25.760All right, well, thanks for tuning in.
00:45:25.840 -->
00:45:26.960That's all I have to say today.
00:45:27.039 -->
00:45:28.480It's just a little solo episode.
00:45:28.559 -->
00:45:30.639I've been wanting to do this one for a long time.
00:45:30.800 -->
00:45:35.440I've actually done a couple of presentations at some small business workshops on this.
00:45:35.760 -->
00:45:39.360And some of the small business owners, I could just see their minds like, wow.
00:45:39.519 -->
00:45:46.400And I'm like, look, you can take advantage of this algorithm too with thought leadership, you know, just talking about the things that you know.
00:45:46.639 -->
00:46:06.400TikTok right now has a service component where you can link your services now for people to um buy from you, buy consultations, buy your services, unfortunately, because I have niched into TikTok shop and other areas as well as um TikTok Go, which is a travel component of TikTok.
00:46:06.559 -->
00:46:12.559I can't sign up for TikTok services, and I'm like, dang, but that's okay.
00:46:12.880 -->
00:46:22.000So if you are a small business owner and you want to take advantage of where content is now, create, create, create, post and ghost.
00:46:23.119 -->
00:46:26.400Let your ego go and see where this can take you.
00:46:26.559 -->
00:46:28.559I think you may surprise yourself.
00:46:28.800 -->
00:46:30.079All right, you know what to do.
00:46:30.400 -->
00:46:31.599This episode has helped you.
00:46:31.760 -->
00:46:40.000Go ahead and like, rate, review, share this with another fellow business owner or a fellow creator or influencer who you think may need this information.
00:46:40.239 -->
00:46:49.199You can always leave me a note on what you want to hear next at PR Your Pod, PRYourself podcast on Instagram, or you can send me a message on LinkedIn.
00:46:49.519 -->
00:46:52.800Um, I'm under the Leah Fraser.
00:46:53.119 -->
00:47:01.360And until next time, can't wait to chat and talk about more PR moves for you, your brand, your business, ways for you to gain visibility.
00:47:01.519 -->
00:47:03.280Just keep it locked in here.
00:47:03.679 -->
00:47:06.000And until next time.
