E93 - Nora Goes Off Script

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey readers, quick heads up.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This week's episode contains references to adult romantic and sexual relationships.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If that's not your thing, no worries.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, thanks for listening.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Paperback Pleasures.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Annabelle, and I'm Romy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're here to talk all things romance literature from the origin of erotica to the swoonworthy classics to modern romantasy sagas and everything in between, one book at a time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We are so happy you're here.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk romance.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, fancy new hair.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's been so long.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It has been a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hasn't it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I also think just like the morning glory milking farm of it feels a little bit like a fever dream.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, a good fever dream.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I've got a fever dream nonetheless.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I'm not sure if it's because, you know, like we talked about it on our social media, to promote the episode or whatever, but I have been seeing a lot of morning glory.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to theme farm pop up on my algorithms.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And annoyingly, it's been like, men who are like, what is this?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like making like a big stink about the fact that the book exists and how silly it is.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I just want to just give like a general reminder that just
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it also doesn't mean you have to shame other people for reading books that they want to read.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a book talk, you don't have to use it to shame other people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Please send them my way.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so curious to hear what they have to say.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a sweet book like what I don't get it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's so funny because almost always these videos start off with I'm not going to read this but and it's like then why, why, why, why are you continuing to talk?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't at least know what you're mad about.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like basic decency, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Or sometimes it's like, I'm reading this, but I don't know why, because XYZ.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, another just general reminder, you don't have to finish books.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you're reading something, it's making you uncomfortable.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You think it's silly, if it's dumb, it's just not for you right now.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Just put it aside, it's gonna be okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I will say though, I do think that like talking about why you don't like a book is still important.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We can't just have like a fully positive, constant like every thing's great, which I know that you know, because we have this podcast and we talk about, you know, things we're taking and leaving.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We don't give everything if I'm out of five romance, smart, everything like every book has its reader.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not always us, but I think that if you're going to say that you don't like a book,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You do need to at least read it because then the conversation is just, you're not on the same page.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Or if you're DNFing something and you want to make a video about why you're DNFing it, that's fine.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But starting off that video with this is why the book is terrible without finishing the book.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion, not in the best taste.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, whoever said we had taste.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Not us, that's for sure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And with that, we'd like to review a book for you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My taste in this book is very changed by the fact that the author and I have the same name.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, as you can do no wrong, no, this is so rare.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think people who don't have my name necessarily understand how unicorn of a moment this is.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's so strange to me to find someone named Annabelle and it spelled correctly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's to the point where people who I am close to,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Still misspell my name.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember I had a tennis coach for I think Six or seven years and he missedpelled my name the entire time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I also had someone who reached out to me on LinkedIn Recently misspell my name.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, it's right there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's right there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's no excuse
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[SPEAKER_02]: My favorite is when somebody emails me and I'm like, you typed out my email and my full name is in the email.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then you went to the body of the email and decided a different spelling was appropriate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I've had people be like, oh, you must spell your name.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, I was at a sushi making class earlier today.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I asked for experiences for my birthday.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So Brandon got me a sushi making course.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was a lot of fun.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But the man next to me was just like very like old school microaggression sexist, you know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so he sat down next to me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He looks at the name card in front of my suit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And he goes, okay, so you're Romney and you're Brandon.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My name is Unique enough that most people at least ask how to say it or say am I saying this right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: This man just informed me that my name is Romney.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you've been mispronouncing at this whole time and just declared it as fact and I just immediately was just like you are not worth my time to correct.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was going to say he chose a great time to test your patients.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it's been it's.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've had a tough tough few weeks, you guys.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My my my fuse is very short, but it's cute.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a junkie a little tiny fuse.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's fun size.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Just like me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's something that you and I have been able to relate to each other.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Our whole lives having unique names and people not really knowing what to do with that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so happy that you have a great example today of someone you share your name with in a positive light, not the creepy horror story doll.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I have such unique experience, I wanted to ask people
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[SPEAKER_01]: how they felt about sharing their name with authors or characters and of course you guys came out and really really delivered.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go ahead and start with Liz.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If that's okay with you, Romeo.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Girl, this is your episode.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Hell yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She says, I do not mind it, but if there for instance is a side character with my mom's name, I always blank on the name when discussing the
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a witchy mongo with mine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it looks like her name is Lizillette.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, Liz is short for the really cool one.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that nice?
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's beautiful.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Liz is part of our discord.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I had no idea that her full name is Lizillette.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That is beautiful.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My goodness.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This one gave me like a full on belly laugh when I read it on our Instagram.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The user's name is Darcy Pickett.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And they broke.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I flex that shit more than the Sultry Hand Flex and a certain Regency Arrow bromance, if you know you know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That is great.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That is fantastic.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When I was in high school, I was on the rowing team, and our coxon was named Darcy and had an Australian accent.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, she was so cool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How did you pronounce it?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Darcy, Darcy?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like with her Australian accent.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Darcy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love, I love the name Darcy Fergurl.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So cool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We have an answer from Trish as well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She says, I can't say I've come across any Trish or Trish as well reading that I can recall.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I do know there are some authors with my name.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Anytime I find someone with my name, I'm always like that's cool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The only character I hear people reference is one of the personalities in the movie split, which I can't stand, but that's what people reference.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't blame you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Trish, I have a great Trish for you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is not a
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think people have slept on this film.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to have a Renaissance.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is my like tin hat theory, but Barbens Star Gooda Vista Delmar has a very great scene where they talk about how much they love the name Trish and who Trish would be if they knew someone named Trish and how great she would be.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I highly recommend that you watch that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Annabelle has been trying to get me to watch that for, I think, years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now, maybe we should have a Patreon movie night with that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please.
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[SPEAKER_02]: All right, we have a Miranda answer.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She says, have you the name of Miranda?
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[SPEAKER_02]: You think I would have to read my name a lot in books, but that isn't the case.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My name was in William Shakespeare's The Tempest.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's an old name and has been around.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But apparently, my name is just too old school for authors now.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you haven't watched Shakespeare and Love, Miranda, you should watch Shakespeare and Love.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's it, it's sponsored by my mom.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How did your favorite movie?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the answer continues.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The only book that I have read personally that has my name in it is the Devil Where's Prada.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it was a book before movie.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The movie is better, but the boyfriend of the book is better than the movie.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank God.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The bar was very low.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He was the worst.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot more that happens in the book with him.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She says Nate Slander is always welcomed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I share my name with the iconic Miranda Prasely.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I love her character, even if she's quote The Villain.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mind reading my name in books, but reading books with my kids name is a very weird, reading fourth-wing series and the synopsis for Morning Glory, milking farm, who was a little awkward.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you guys, have it this entire morning, Gloria, milking farm episode at the very end.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We do give the complete unedited version of Miranda's synopsis reading because yes, she is Laila Lee.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're outing you Miranda.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, eventually my brain can differentiate the name and the character similar to what we had to do in the 90s with people who had very popular names like Brittany or Zach.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, we're talking about how our names are kind of having a Renaissance, like there's a lot of Brooklyn toddlers running around with Annabella's their name.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, but my name is popping up a lot in like products.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got the A Jill P1 row.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I did find a pubic shaver called the Romy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Love that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's my legacy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There are shoes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They were cute too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I actually didn't hate them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They were animal flats as well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like years ago.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that the the shoe name to baby name pipeline is in your future.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Really looking forward to that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: One thing I shouldn't warn you about is I did go to a restaurant once and there was a mom talking to her daughter Annabelle and I like turn her and say, oh my gosh, that's my name and she goes, oh my gosh, we've never met an old Annabelle have we.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm prepared for that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's a brutal.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was also like maybe 25.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So and you look great.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So young like you still look like you're 25.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if only people would take me seriously.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We have one final answer from Bound Sister's podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They say, I don't care as much when it's my own name, but I have to change the names in my head, specifically if it's a romance.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If the name is of a student or niece slash nephew, I have, that's very fair.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just can't, it just makes me feel gross.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I am the same way with my brothers.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I also wish that all of my friends would not date anyone with my brothers' names.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I dated one of her brother's names for a long time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Look, it didn't work out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that I'm happy that it didn't work out, but I am seeing I'm pretty happy that it didn't work out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Romi, how do you feel about Romi characters?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Are there Romi characters?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to say I'm sure they're out there.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I've never really run into them.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Famously, when we had Ben Alderson on, he talked about how he had Romi character, I've read a lot of his books.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't found that one yet.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I believe him.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I have not read the book with a Romney character in it, so I don't know, and it'll use to make fun of me a lot because she found a song and about was like, oh my god, I have something to show you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so excited.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And she starts playing a song called It's Romy D. I wish we could sample like 10 seconds.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's Romy D-8.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Look up.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's Romney D. Give it a listen.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's really as close as I get to sharing my name with anybody A lot of people do ask me if my name is short for Romeo.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not Romney is a French nickname for the name Rosemary
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I'm named after the actress Romney Schneider, but she's on a character.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She's a real person.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think by this point in my life, if I did share my name with a book character, I think I didn't like internalize it because it's so rare.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I wouldn't be able to separate myself from that character.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know how healthy it would be.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel that I definitely experienced that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember the first time I found a character with the name Annabelle was, and I liked this up because it's been a minute, but it's called No Flying in the House by Betty Brock.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's about a little girl named Annabelle, correct spelling, who discovers that she's a fairy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she knows this because she can kiss your elbow, which you're not supposed to be able to do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sure, sure, sure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because she's not a human.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was so much fun.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was my favorite book.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was like so immediately attached to the point that like I remember it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what 33 and I remember it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel very lucky with my name, but there have been eras of like what Anabel means in the public eye and I will say Anabel being the possessed doll even while having a different spelling from mine has not been great for hanging out with kids when I was a trail guide kids would not want to be in my canoe because they would be like no you're like that haunted
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[SPEAKER_01]: Kids are so mean, I know kids are so mean, but then sometimes I also will like say my name and people like, oh, that's so cute.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love that name.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, thank you.
14:26.119 --> 14:27.320
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll pass it off to my parents.
14:27.440 --> 14:28.742
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I have no staying in this.
14:29.383 --> 14:30.545
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I work really hard for it?
14:33.493 --> 14:42.202
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's actually part of why I had like avoided reading Annabelle Moynihan, because I was so nervous that I wouldn't like it.
14:42.482 --> 14:47.487
[SPEAKER_01]: And then people would be like, oh, you're in romance and your name is Annabelle, like you must love her.
14:47.507 --> 14:57.677
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like being a buzzkill as much as I was, you know, walking on my, on my soapbox and talking about disliking things publicly being okay, I don't really like doing it.
14:58.477 --> 14:58.978
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fair.
14:59.098 --> 15:03.261
[SPEAKER_01]: You can agree that it is something that is okay to do but not partake in it yourself or not.
15:03.381 --> 15:04.202
[SPEAKER_02]: You are partaking in it.
15:04.662 --> 15:09.226
[SPEAKER_02]: I avoided reading Abby Jimenez books for a long time because of the Minnesota connection.
15:09.446 --> 15:15.231
[SPEAKER_02]: Every time I say him from Minnesota, I have a romance podcast, everybody asks, do you read Abby Jimenez, do you read all these other books?
15:15.311 --> 15:16.132
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I got it.
15:16.672 --> 15:19.435
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm always really worried that like if I don't like it.
15:20.536 --> 15:24.461
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, luckily very much fell in love with Abby's writing, especially when it came to Minnesota.
15:24.581 --> 15:25.162
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a setting.
15:25.182 --> 15:26.143
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a beautiful job.
15:26.183 --> 15:27.745
[SPEAKER_02]: But no, I get that.
15:27.805 --> 15:30.889
[SPEAKER_02]: It's which as we're saying it out loud, it's so silly.
15:31.469 --> 15:31.710
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
15:31.930 --> 15:36.536
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's so silly because it's a man you factored conflict that we're creating in our own brain.
15:36.596 --> 15:37.797
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't really mean anything.
15:39.564 --> 15:42.966
[SPEAKER_02]: But like I was scared and proved wrong about Abbey Jimenez.
15:43.406 --> 15:49.049
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I got a text to me earlier this week when you finish Nora goes off script and worth the real with it.
15:49.069 --> 15:51.891
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm hoping that this helps you in this case as well.
15:52.111 --> 15:52.451
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
15:52.571 --> 15:56.613
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and now I get to have a whole podcast episode about it so I can just refer people to this.
15:56.974 --> 15:57.434
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
15:57.754 --> 15:58.154
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect.
15:58.214 --> 16:02.777
[SPEAKER_01]: We are so good at creating and then resolving conflict before it ever happens if it ever happened.
16:04.057 --> 16:04.858
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always done that.
16:07.552 --> 16:11.080
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, without further ado, let's cut to the synopsis.
16:13.486 --> 16:16.373
[SPEAKER_00]: Nor as life is about to get a rewrite.
16:17.213 --> 16:23.995
[SPEAKER_00]: Nora Hamilton knows the formula for love better than anyone, as a romance channel screenwriter.
16:24.595 --> 16:25.355
[SPEAKER_00]: It's her job.
16:26.075 --> 16:36.938
[SPEAKER_00]: But when her too good to work husband leaves her and their two kids, Nora turns her marriages collapse and cash and writes the best script of her life.
16:37.678 --> 16:43.639
[SPEAKER_00]: No one is more surprised than her when it's picked up for the big screen and set to film on location
16:46.200 --> 16:54.063
[SPEAKER_00]: When former sexiest man alive, Leo Vance has cast as her near-do-well husband, Norris' life will never be the same.
16:54.864 --> 17:03.767
[SPEAKER_00]: The morning after shooting wraps in the crew leaves, Norris finds Leo on her porch with a half-empty bottle of tequila and a proposition.
17:04.328 --> 17:06.869
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll pay $1000 a day to stay for a week.
17:10.550 --> 17:32.526
[SPEAKER_00]: The extra seven grand would give Nora breathing room, but it's the need in his eyes that makes her say, yes, seven days, it's the blink of an eye, or an eternity, depending on how you look at it, enough time to fall in love, enough time to break your heart.
17:36.668 --> 17:37.389
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm confused.
17:38.150 --> 17:38.951
[SPEAKER_02]: She's a screenwriter.
17:39.852 --> 17:41.414
[SPEAKER_02]: And she decides to write about her own life.
17:42.255 --> 17:43.617
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, oh, what?
17:44.017 --> 17:44.919
[SPEAKER_02]: They chose my movie?
17:47.097 --> 17:48.157
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you confused?
17:48.317 --> 17:50.338
[SPEAKER_01]: But why would she be confused about that?
17:51.218 --> 17:51.839
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
17:51.999 --> 18:01.942
[SPEAKER_01]: She writes for a like hallmark channel, like in the verse hallmark channel, it's less of a pouring her passion onto the page and more of a following formula and writing something that's marketable.
18:02.642 --> 18:12.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when she pours her heart and soul into something that's very dark and doesn't have a happy ending, that's why she's like, oh, is this commercially viable since when?
18:12.365 --> 18:15.466
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is this the thing that is gonna take off?
18:17.227 --> 18:17.888
[SPEAKER_01]: she comes from.
18:18.368 --> 18:18.808
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
18:18.928 --> 18:20.029
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that makes more sense.
18:20.489 --> 18:22.751
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a super fun synopsis.
18:22.771 --> 18:23.811
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to read this book.
18:24.051 --> 18:24.432
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
18:24.512 --> 18:27.934
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I didn't know I didn't even read this synopsis going.
18:28.274 --> 18:31.616
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I literally was like, she has my name.
18:32.016 --> 18:33.457
[SPEAKER_01]: I have been reading this book.
18:33.617 --> 18:35.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Several people have recommended this to me.
18:35.739 --> 18:36.199
[SPEAKER_01]: Download.
18:36.359 --> 18:38.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't look at anything dive right in.
18:38.800 --> 18:39.301
[SPEAKER_01]: So like,
18:40.378 --> 18:42.640
[SPEAKER_01]: I opened up on her house with a phone clear there.
18:42.940 --> 18:48.363
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, okay, so be honest, like adjusting to the setting right off the bat.
18:48.463 --> 18:50.865
[SPEAKER_02]: What was your first impression of the book not knowing anything about it?
18:52.406 --> 18:54.627
[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed kind of bleak.
18:54.907 --> 18:57.589
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, like, she's in a tough spot when it starts.
18:58.149 --> 19:06.435
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also will say, like, I wouldn't consider this a typical romance novel in many ways.
19:06.862 --> 19:08.963
[SPEAKER_02]: but there's a former sexiest way to live in it.
19:09.063 --> 19:16.248
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I know, but, you know, as we've said, rippling abs do not a romance make.
19:16.268 --> 19:25.374
[SPEAKER_01]: I was looking into how people have reviewed this and really it was just an excuse to search, like the library, dork search engines.
19:25.954 --> 19:29.896
[SPEAKER_01]: And I found this review from Susan McGuire in 2022.
19:29.956 --> 19:30.877
[SPEAKER_01]: I think when it came out,
19:31.323 --> 19:34.205
[SPEAKER_01]: She calls it air relationship fiction gem.
19:34.646 --> 19:38.648
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like that's more true to what this book is than romance.
19:38.709 --> 19:40.290
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like relationship fiction.
19:40.350 --> 19:44.673
[SPEAKER_02]: So talk to me about the difference between relationship fiction and romance.
19:45.413 --> 19:50.537
[SPEAKER_02]: Because most romance is fiction about relationships.
19:52.499 --> 19:53.439
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you say like that?
19:53.599 --> 19:56.542
[SPEAKER_01]: You sound a little like, you know what you're talking about more than I do.
20:01.160 --> 20:04.624
[SPEAKER_02]: So, well, now, like, what does that mean to you?
20:04.684 --> 20:09.729
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why would I pick this up and be like, oh, you're right, this is more relationship fiction.
20:09.749 --> 20:11.190
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't read this review.
20:11.250 --> 20:18.837
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't read this book, so this is not shade on that reviewer, but to me that kind of sounds like somebody who doesn't want to say, I write a romance novel.
20:19.878 --> 20:24.400
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of makes it sound like it's a more like literary review of a romance novel.
20:25.000 --> 20:28.702
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the settings and the circumstances make it sound like it's a romance novel.
20:28.722 --> 20:30.522
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of like, okay, so what does this mean?
20:31.163 --> 20:36.905
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that I kind of want to cite something that we talked about in the Abby Hemenas episode, which is
20:37.765 --> 20:44.247
[SPEAKER_01]: Romance very much enmeshed in a lot of life messiness, rather than separate from it.
20:44.447 --> 20:54.490
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would say that the beating heart of the novel has more to do with a character's growth, rather than the relationships growth and the relationship itself.
20:54.910 --> 20:59.092
[SPEAKER_01]: Even more so than Abby Homenas, because we only have one point of view.
20:59.692 --> 21:03.173
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the relationship one of the top three plot points in the book?
21:04.690 --> 21:08.832
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I wouldn't say it's the driving force, but let's start where we start.
21:09.213 --> 21:15.156
[SPEAKER_01]: It like sort of mentions this in the synopsis, but Nora has been through a lot.
21:15.356 --> 21:24.481
[SPEAKER_01]: Ben, her ex, husband, was a serial entrepreneur that never actually made anything and was consistently like draining her finances.
21:24.641 --> 21:26.342
[SPEAKER_01]: Wasn't a very good father for the kids.
21:26.682 --> 21:30.144
[SPEAKER_01]: Really resented her and really just was a terrible support.
21:34.246 --> 21:45.494
[SPEAKER_01]: But then once he was gone, it was more of like a relief, and she could finally like relax, and only take care of herself and her kids as opposed to taking care of her husband and herself and her kids.
21:45.794 --> 21:48.837
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's very used to putting herself second when this book starts.
21:49.457 --> 21:55.942
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that is always a good start for romance because you get to have someone put their wants and needs first.
21:56.242 --> 22:00.045
[SPEAKER_01]: But she's very focused on like being a good mom, being there for her kids,
22:00.745 --> 22:04.567
[SPEAKER_01]: Her daily joys are morning sunrise on the porch.
22:04.667 --> 22:09.109
[SPEAKER_01]: She goes out on the porch every morning with a cup of coffee and watches the sunrise by herself.
22:09.269 --> 22:12.771
[SPEAKER_01]: She relies very heavily on routine, and she really loves her house.
22:13.231 --> 22:17.213
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a fixer upper, like very old, but it's full of charm.
22:17.494 --> 22:22.676
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's frustrated with how much things are falling apart, but she loves it and she loves that it's hers.
22:22.816 --> 22:29.540
[SPEAKER_01]: But she really doesn't like breaking her routine, really doesn't like spurging herself and she really feels judged by the people in her town.
22:30.300 --> 22:34.362
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where we are when Hollywood pulls up all of their trailers and starts.
22:35.022 --> 22:37.323
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel like this is a good start for romance?
22:37.463 --> 22:38.003
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
22:39.344 --> 22:41.224
[SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
22:41.825 --> 22:42.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
22:43.225 --> 22:45.846
[SPEAKER_01]: So Nora's ready, maybe, but let's talk about Leo.
22:46.086 --> 22:48.727
[SPEAKER_01]: Leo is our movie star.
22:48.948 --> 22:54.670
[SPEAKER_01]: He is camping on her property in an RV because he won't stay at Hilton's.
22:56.818 --> 22:58.479
[SPEAKER_01]: He seems very confused.
22:58.819 --> 23:03.661
[SPEAKER_01]: He starts just kind of like helping himself to stuff in her house.
23:04.081 --> 23:09.823
[SPEAKER_01]: He drinks too much, so he's like taking her beers and wine comes across as very entitled.
23:10.203 --> 23:12.844
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when he asks to stay, she's like, why?
23:13.004 --> 23:13.264
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
23:15.005 --> 23:30.932
[SPEAKER_01]: you I don't get it like you there's no reason for you to be here but he is really observant and he's very like open about being observant like when he sees her on the porch in her night count he's like night count see through you've got nice legs and she's like oh my god
23:32.192 --> 23:37.014
[SPEAKER_01]: but he's like very raw at this time and rougher on the edges.
23:37.414 --> 23:41.556
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he doesn't really seem bound up in people pleasing in any way.
23:41.976 --> 23:44.317
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, it's just another man that she needs to take care of.
23:44.637 --> 23:44.898
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
23:45.218 --> 23:45.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Seriously?
23:46.038 --> 23:46.478
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right.
23:46.898 --> 23:47.359
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not wrong.
23:47.719 --> 23:50.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and speaking of people she needs to take care of.
23:50.320 --> 23:52.761
[SPEAKER_01]: She has two kids who are very important part of the story.
23:53.121 --> 23:54.382
[SPEAKER_01]: One is Bernadette.
23:54.702 --> 23:55.462
[SPEAKER_01]: She's younger.
23:55.642 --> 23:57.043
[SPEAKER_01]: She's really great-eyed.
23:57.643 --> 24:00.024
[SPEAKER_01]: and excited and not super inhibited.
24:00.064 --> 24:01.404
[SPEAKER_01]: She's very expressive.
24:01.884 --> 24:04.605
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other is Arthur, who is a little older.
24:04.745 --> 24:09.527
[SPEAKER_01]: He's still really hurt from Ben leaving and like trying to find his way in his voice and who he is.
24:09.687 --> 24:12.028
[SPEAKER_02]: We were talking about like sharing names with people.
24:12.768 --> 24:17.470
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody who is acting the part of your ex-husband who left you.
24:17.710 --> 24:20.911
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it would be difficult for me to see them as a romantic partner.
24:22.023 --> 24:23.926
[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of fun.
24:23.946 --> 24:27.612
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if there was a documentary series made about my life for whatever fucking reason.
24:28.668 --> 24:32.269
[SPEAKER_02]: and somebody played an ex of mine could be the hottest person on the planet.
24:32.389 --> 24:42.193
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I'd be comfortable pursuing a relationship with that person, just because I've seen them act like this person that I am choosing very intentionally to no longer have in my life.
24:42.473 --> 24:47.375
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's not fair, but like... No, she also is not interested in him for what it's worth.
24:47.695 --> 24:49.976
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like not really interested in romance generally.
24:50.116 --> 24:55.218
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's hot, like that's distracting, and it's cool to have like, you know, a hot Hollywood actor,
24:55.938 --> 24:56.718
[SPEAKER_01]: on your lawn.
24:56.939 --> 24:57.459
[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool.
24:57.479 --> 24:58.379
[SPEAKER_01]: There's novelty there.
24:58.599 --> 25:01.461
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that like really develops over time, which I appreciate.
25:01.481 --> 25:03.401
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it needs to over seven days.
25:03.802 --> 25:05.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so they have a week to fall in love.
25:05.963 --> 25:06.643
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they do that?
25:07.655 --> 25:32.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, so the romance reading here, it's interesting because there are a lot of elements that you would think make this seem like it would be like a romance of circumstance rather than a connection of the characters right you've got like A romantic setting in this beautiful old house she like is very in touch with nature and it's such a beautiful place that Paulie would film there you've also got like the fame and the stardom like are you really getting to know the person or you just falling in love with like
25:33.128 --> 25:36.849
[SPEAKER_01]: the idea of this person and how they are and how cool they are.
25:37.209 --> 25:40.351
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think on both of their parts, there's novelty, right?
25:40.471 --> 25:47.253
[SPEAKER_01]: Leo's like, I'm used to dating starlets and this is a regular real person who's a mom and like that's so cool and this is so cool.
25:47.273 --> 25:52.915
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like odd and you seem like really appreciating the routine that she makes.
25:53.155 --> 25:54.656
[SPEAKER_01]: He keeps asking, so what's next?
25:54.876 --> 25:56.636
[SPEAKER_01]: And she'll be like, well, on Tuesdays, we make meatloaf.
25:57.076 --> 25:58.437
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, okay, cool.
25:59.054 --> 25:59.614
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see it.
25:59.854 --> 26:03.196
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like disgusted by how Mielof is made of the chimpanzees.
26:03.216 --> 26:04.476
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little bit of a spring roll.
26:05.977 --> 26:06.417
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
26:07.057 --> 26:09.118
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's cravings some kind of normal scene.
26:09.198 --> 26:10.099
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like if it sounds like.
26:10.279 --> 26:10.499
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:10.779 --> 26:13.040
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't really know why at first.
26:13.420 --> 26:15.201
[SPEAKER_01]: We will find out I'm not going to tell you why.
26:15.481 --> 26:21.603
[SPEAKER_01]: I think especially with Nora being in the position that she's in, she's written this cathartic script.
26:21.803 --> 26:25.125
[SPEAKER_01]: But opening up your heart to someone new, especially someone this flashy.
26:26.424 --> 26:28.766
[SPEAKER_01]: is a huge possibility of pain.
26:29.186 --> 26:40.655
[SPEAKER_01]: Ben leaving not hurting kind of gives us an idea that like they're probably pain to come, but the possibility of Leo leaving is something that she considers consistently because it scares the shit out of her.
26:40.675 --> 26:45.419
[SPEAKER_01]: It would force her to confront whether she was actually happy to begin with because now she is.
26:45.599 --> 26:46.219
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's scary.
26:46.439 --> 26:51.183
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's sort of the fundamental danger of romance in some ways, wanting more and believing that you might
26:51.643 --> 26:57.085
[SPEAKER_01]: deserve more and having that person taking away from you is like extra humilly.
26:57.305 --> 27:01.667
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's why Roman's literature is such an escape that we become so addicted to.
27:01.847 --> 27:07.309
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot easier to see other people take these risks and have it work out.
27:07.469 --> 27:14.552
[SPEAKER_02]: When you're rooting for a character and seeing them put themselves into a really vulnerable place and having it work out, that's a serotonin hit.
27:14.652 --> 27:18.453
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's that's so inspiring that's so lovely and it's very safe.
27:18.733 --> 27:26.139
[SPEAKER_02]: I've definitely been in relationships or situations where I'm like, all right, this is literally an all or nothing I'm about to put in the line.
27:26.219 --> 27:29.162
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of to decide every time is a worth it.
27:29.982 --> 27:30.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:30.363 --> 27:34.786
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, okay, so I am happier than I have ever been in my life.
27:35.267 --> 27:37.409
[SPEAKER_01]: Is my happiest moment going to be in the past now?
27:38.449 --> 27:42.773
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think with her too, there's also the added layer of like, I'm bringing someone in to the kids.
27:42.993 --> 27:44.695
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to get them disappointed again.
27:44.755 --> 27:46.896
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that was really hard for them.
27:48.350 --> 27:52.052
[SPEAKER_01]: By it, I gave this romance a four stars.
27:52.352 --> 27:53.593
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I see.
27:53.793 --> 27:57.775
[SPEAKER_02]: This is sounding more and more and more like a romance novel.
27:59.076 --> 28:03.038
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but I think the thing again, we only have one perspective.
28:03.138 --> 28:05.099
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't get a ton of Leo's perspective.
28:05.559 --> 28:07.120
[SPEAKER_01]: We really get Nora's perspective.
28:07.720 --> 28:12.103
[SPEAKER_01]: And so much of it is about her stripping away
28:13.003 --> 28:16.565
[SPEAKER_01]: the thing that she loves about this relationship and seeing it how she feels.
28:16.745 --> 28:28.730
[SPEAKER_01]: All of these are examined, like the romantic setting, the movie star element, the novelty, all of those things are examined individually during the story because she's so indispoly.
28:28.810 --> 28:31.351
[SPEAKER_01]: For that, she's like, okay, is this really just like fame?
28:32.367 --> 28:33.968
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel this way if he wasn't famous.
28:34.128 --> 28:37.031
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this really just that he's so different from everyone I've ever dated before?
28:37.211 --> 28:43.076
[SPEAKER_01]: She pulls it apart in her analytical brain that is very conflictive, very, very afraid of getting hurt.
28:43.216 --> 28:52.143
[SPEAKER_01]: It does feel more like she's willing to let go of her anxiety around it and make her own happiness a priority.
28:52.603 --> 29:01.368
[SPEAKER_01]: Separately from the relationship and I can't explain how that happens because it's a spoiler It really felt like more about Nora's personal growth than about them.
29:01.828 --> 29:06.870
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I like truly did not know how it was gonna end For most of it.
29:07.030 --> 29:07.691
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exciting.
29:08.091 --> 29:13.954
[SPEAKER_01]: I also thought it was just gonna be like a really sad boat Oh, no, honestly like a lot of it is very sad.
29:14.214 --> 29:15.635
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a long sad part.
29:15.735 --> 29:17.416
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like a traditional romance in that way
29:18.972 --> 29:22.795
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to decide how existential I'm going to get with the definition of a romance novel.
29:23.296 --> 29:24.176
[SPEAKER_02]: Speak your heart girl.
29:24.617 --> 29:31.903
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't read the book, so I can't just like keep arguing sounds like a romance novel like that confidently, because obviously you know the book much more than I do.
29:32.123 --> 29:45.794
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think the things that you're bringing up are interesting because like even if it doesn't fit the formula of maybe you're like standard like 250 page romance novel where the most of the plot is the relationship and all the POVs involved in it.
29:46.615 --> 29:56.703
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think that romance as a genre is wide enough to confidently include stories like the one you're talking about.
29:57.083 --> 29:59.585
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I haven't read it and just want to based off of how you're describing it.
30:00.302 --> 30:01.022
[SPEAKER_01]: I fully agree.
30:01.042 --> 30:09.267
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the reason that I'm like coming down so hard on this is because of the cover to be honest because it looks like cartoony like your classic.
30:09.327 --> 30:11.268
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be so fun little romp.
30:11.608 --> 30:28.657
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's so mismatched with what's inside of it that I find it like almost false advertising like it's so confusing to have something that is so cookie cutter romance on the cover and then open it up and be like wow like 60% of this book is very painful.
30:29.638 --> 30:31.800
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost more of a cautionary.
30:31.820 --> 30:33.943
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not what it looks like.
30:34.003 --> 30:38.147
[SPEAKER_01]: Please be careful with your heart, rather than this is not romance.
30:38.407 --> 30:42.252
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more like this isn't your classic what the cover makes you think it might be.
30:42.312 --> 30:44.674
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that maybe this was mismarketed.
30:45.155 --> 30:45.916
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
30:46.096 --> 30:47.858
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know that people would have read it.
30:48.457 --> 30:52.939
[SPEAKER_02]: cartoon covers that this has been a debate online for a long time.
30:53.359 --> 31:04.163
[SPEAKER_02]: Most notable examples icebreaker where people thought it was a kids book, but when you think about like romance see, those are books with a ton of pain built in because that's half the plot right big fantastical drama.
31:04.663 --> 31:11.825
[SPEAKER_02]: Fourth wing that has had up and down and up and down with the relationship, same thing with Akatar, same thing with a lot of really successful romance to see.
31:12.025 --> 31:12.746
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I guess
31:16.967 --> 31:40.448
[SPEAKER_02]: if it is still part of what the character is thinking about a lot and it sounds like a lot of her internal dialogue is about this relationship that yes it sounds like it was totally mismarketed because you're right the front cover and the synopsis make it sound like a romp and this is much more introspective but like the Emily Henry book we read great big beautiful life that was that was a very literary fiction
31:40.928 --> 31:43.371
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely still a romance though.
31:43.691 --> 31:46.113
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you had two characters who were working on their career.
31:46.494 --> 31:48.176
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a lot of plot outside of it.
31:48.236 --> 31:53.841
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of the day, one of the big reasons people are reading it is for the relationship between the two people.
31:54.526 --> 31:59.930
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I will say like, I think getting both perspectives in that particular book was helpful.
32:00.911 --> 32:07.797
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's part of what it felt less like a romance to is because I like didn't fully understand Leo and I didn't really care that I didn't.
32:08.698 --> 32:09.718
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh, okay.
32:09.738 --> 32:10.439
[SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting.
32:10.459 --> 32:12.301
[SPEAKER_02]: Because even in morning glory, milking farm.
32:12.521 --> 32:12.841
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
32:12.961 --> 32:23.089
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember like, I remember saying like, I would have rated this a higher romance if I had gotten his perspective because being stuck inside one person's head while they're mulling over what they're not a relationship as a relationship.
32:24.490 --> 32:25.051
[SPEAKER_01]: stressful.
32:25.671 --> 32:28.352
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I think that you were talking about Romanticity.
32:28.452 --> 32:41.858
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there is something particularly painful and visceral about reading Romantic pain in a contemporary romance setting that has no filter of being a different world really Except that the hallmark channel has a slightly different name.
32:42.058 --> 32:43.779
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not done talking about the romance reading with you.
32:43.819 --> 32:49.002
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because you rated it four out of five That's a really high romance rating.
32:49.462 --> 32:51.603
[SPEAKER_02]: So what did you find Romantic about the book?
32:52.143 --> 32:55.628
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's what I found so romantic about the book, the believing in more.
32:56.009 --> 33:06.684
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there is something so beautiful and I think this gets to the heart of why you and I wealth is genre so much about someone coming out of the woodwork who you think is amazing.
33:07.505 --> 33:14.228
[SPEAKER_01]: looking at you and being like, you're amazing, and this definitely provides that.
33:14.288 --> 33:19.250
[SPEAKER_01]: There is this element of like, oh my god, this is almost too fantastical to be real, right?
33:19.290 --> 33:21.591
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a movie star is obsessed with this mom.
33:22.540 --> 33:27.782
[SPEAKER_01]: But then the pain is kind of what makes you be like, oh my God, yeah, this is definitely real.
33:28.342 --> 33:31.123
[SPEAKER_01]: This is such a painful, beautiful thing.
33:31.603 --> 33:33.943
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, this is what it's like to believe in yourself.
33:34.083 --> 33:37.364
[SPEAKER_01]: Center all of that belief on someone else's belief and you and then lose it.
33:38.145 --> 33:45.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Like protect your heart while leaving room to be seen and believed in and grow and love someone else.
33:45.907 --> 33:46.947
[SPEAKER_01]: That's romantic as fuck.
33:47.347 --> 33:49.188
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a four out of five.
33:50.128 --> 33:51.089
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
33:51.429 --> 33:52.250
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
33:52.570 --> 33:57.453
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that this is a great example of how something can be both literary and a romance novel.
33:57.493 --> 34:07.300
[SPEAKER_02]: While I totally get the relationship fiction argument, to me, it's important to be comfortable calling things romance novels,
34:08.921 --> 34:10.903
[SPEAKER_02]: and having them include a lot of other stuff too.
34:11.223 --> 34:11.583
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
34:12.404 --> 34:13.644
[SPEAKER_02]: Just change the cover.
34:15.546 --> 34:17.887
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think would be more appropriate cover design?
34:18.307 --> 34:19.908
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, here's what I don't understand.
34:19.988 --> 34:24.131
[SPEAKER_01]: They have this really gorgeous setting and I get like this probably wouldn't sell as many books.
34:24.671 --> 34:25.432
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand that.
34:25.812 --> 34:32.697
[SPEAKER_01]: She has this tea house in her backyard that like you have to walk through the lawn to get to and inside it's like a 19th century.
34:33.517 --> 34:59.949
[SPEAKER_01]: greenhouse like it's glass all around and it's there for people to literally just have tea and there's like a fireplace and like a little lounging bed and it's surrounded by nature and that's where they film the movie that's where she writes that's her safe space and that's where he ends up staying when he stays with her like it would make sense to have that space be on the cover also selfishly I would like to see what it looks like but that's what I would
35:00.869 --> 35:01.109
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
35:01.289 --> 35:01.529
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
35:01.749 --> 35:02.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
35:02.049 --> 35:02.649
[SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense.
35:02.830 --> 35:06.390
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you describe the cover for people who maybe haven't seen it or are watching on YouTube?
35:06.570 --> 35:08.251
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember it being like they're like abstract.
35:08.931 --> 35:17.153
[SPEAKER_01]: So on the cover, we have what I call the style is like blob people where she doesn't have eyes, but she has a nose and lips.
35:17.373 --> 35:24.295
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we just see like her nose and lips and her holding a cup of coffee leaning over the edge of
35:25.556 --> 35:30.541
[SPEAKER_01]: or she has a director's like slap board.
35:30.801 --> 35:31.422
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what it's called?
35:31.662 --> 35:33.304
[SPEAKER_01]: A clapper board.
35:33.344 --> 35:34.625
[SPEAKER_01]: She is a clapper board next to her.
35:34.705 --> 35:37.749
[SPEAKER_01]: It says a novel on it and it has a pencil next to it.
35:37.849 --> 35:39.851
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's just a green expanse.
35:40.471 --> 35:45.637
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see a little corner of what looks like a manufactured shed that you can buy from Amazon.
35:47.759 --> 35:59.346
[SPEAKER_01]: Next to turned over bike, and the colors are pink, a deep pink, a Kelly green, and a dark green, and then the accent color is an orange.
35:59.746 --> 36:02.047
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of supposed to be her watching the sunrise.
36:03.268 --> 36:06.490
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, except with those colors, I'm looking at it right now, too.
36:07.076 --> 36:07.396
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:07.836 --> 36:08.136
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
36:08.156 --> 36:13.878
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it makes it much more like random suburban house rather than like her house.
36:14.338 --> 36:14.598
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
36:15.058 --> 36:18.659
[SPEAKER_01]: I get that they're like, oh, a random kid's bike is in here because she has kids.
36:19.139 --> 36:21.960
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, there's a pencil here because she's a writer.
36:21.980 --> 36:24.740
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels a little like being spoken down to.
36:25.280 --> 36:25.640
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
36:25.800 --> 36:26.080
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
36:26.160 --> 36:27.041
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I get that.
36:27.141 --> 36:32.022
[SPEAKER_02]: I also think that it adds like that level of like anonymity to her because it's just like very basic,
36:37.563 --> 36:47.811
[SPEAKER_02]: leaning against a balcony and dreaming of better things, you know, this leans into the idea of this could be you, mom with kids at home who has a former sexiest man alive fall in love with her.
36:48.151 --> 36:50.613
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen the alternative cover of the blue one?
36:50.793 --> 36:52.874
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think you're gonna like it even less.
36:53.675 --> 36:53.955
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
36:56.156 --> 36:56.237
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh
37:00.706 --> 37:01.466
[SPEAKER_02]: very off-putting.
37:02.227 --> 37:11.791
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the first time I saw this, I didn't know anything about the book, and so I thought that he was like running a marathon, but then we had like a bottle of malt liquor.
37:13.491 --> 37:15.532
[SPEAKER_02]: With them, what were they going to do with all?
37:15.552 --> 37:18.674
[SPEAKER_01]: I have people that do that and they are crazy.
37:18.694 --> 37:20.434
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're breed of person.
37:20.454 --> 37:26.277
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I once ran a half marathon and had someone offering me a shot at my 11 and I was like, oh,
37:27.655 --> 37:29.916
[SPEAKER_01]: If I could do that, I would be a super person.
37:30.236 --> 37:33.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I will say, like, neither of these are good.
37:33.957 --> 37:38.239
[SPEAKER_01]: They both make the characters too dimensional in a way that is beyond just if you can cover.
37:39.639 --> 37:42.220
[SPEAKER_01]: But at least this one, you know, they both have eyes.
37:42.981 --> 37:43.101
[SPEAKER_01]: And
37:44.418 --> 37:45.998
[SPEAKER_01]: No, actually, I just hate both of them.
37:46.118 --> 37:46.879
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate both of them.
37:47.179 --> 37:47.499
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
37:47.539 --> 37:47.879
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.
37:48.319 --> 37:49.199
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's total.
37:49.339 --> 37:50.279
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, that's totally fair.
37:50.899 --> 38:02.842
[SPEAKER_02]: When writing a book and having a published through traditional means, so many people in this podcast will already know, there's so much outside of the author's control when we had Courtney Wenton, who went from indeed a traditional.
38:03.282 --> 38:05.783
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I can't even tell you.
38:06.563 --> 38:07.844
[SPEAKER_02]: where my book is right now.
38:08.325 --> 38:14.551
[SPEAKER_02]: So it may have just been a team of marketers who are like, I think that we can, I mean, how we go back to the original bonus troopers.
38:14.651 --> 38:17.974
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we can market these towards women with kids at home.
38:18.334 --> 38:18.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
38:18.935 --> 38:20.056
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an unassuming cover.
38:20.136 --> 38:24.120
[SPEAKER_02]: It's when you can easily relate to that may have been the entire marketing strategy behind it.
38:25.401 --> 38:27.203
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were marketing this book, please let us know.
38:29.961 --> 38:36.290
[SPEAKER_01]: one thing that I do want to bring up about this is like you mentioned icebreaker as seeming like a cartoon cover for kids.
38:36.330 --> 38:43.020
[SPEAKER_02]: This seems like it would have smut and it has a little I was wondering because they only have seven days and she's very in her head.
38:43.180 --> 38:45.864
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a feeling she's not like fucking it out to figure it out.
38:46.701 --> 38:59.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh she is, I mean they're having a lot of sex, they are, yeah, fuck yes, but it's not like in depth in terms of the writing so we don't get like a first person view.
39:00.545 --> 39:08.747
[SPEAKER_01]: I pulled out a sample just so that like you understand what it's like, he kisses me slowly and as he starts to make love to me, I know for sure that Leo hasn't been acting.
39:09.387 --> 39:17.268
[SPEAKER_01]: In his raw estate, with his guard completely down, he is the same person who's been sitting on my porch, attentive, listening, staying for the whole story.
39:17.828 --> 39:23.469
[SPEAKER_01]: For the first time in my life, I have left my busy busy mind and now only exist in the smell of Leo's neck.
39:24.110 --> 39:25.650
[SPEAKER_01]: The sound of Leo whispering my name.
39:26.170 --> 39:28.050
[SPEAKER_01]: The slick of his skin now damp with sweat.
39:28.710 --> 39:33.311
[SPEAKER_01]: The feeling of my body opening up to something so powerful, I don't know how I'll return from it.
39:33.951 --> 39:36.592
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very euphemistic, very euphemistic.
39:39.072 --> 39:39.172
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
39:39.513 --> 39:45.877
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad it kept going because when she wrote when he starts to make love to me.
39:46.998 --> 39:55.505
[SPEAKER_02]: Number one, there's like a million things that can mean like we've talked at Nauseam on this podcast about how like everything is sexy and it doesn't have to just be penetration.
39:55.805 --> 40:02.270
[SPEAKER_02]: When we're talking about making love, that's kind of when I want more detail.
40:03.190 --> 40:10.635
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what does that look like and feel like what is he specifically doing that's making you feel like this is making love?
40:10.816 --> 40:19.662
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like that's such an intentional phrase to use, especially in something that's as like fraught as this within her.
40:19.822 --> 40:26.606
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if she's viewing it that way, beyond the fact that he's smells nice and is sweaty because they're working out again.
40:26.846 --> 40:30.689
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't read this book, so I'm just going off of what you're telling me, I'm sitting here feeling a little wanting.
40:30.749 --> 40:31.770
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you feel want to?
40:32.673 --> 40:35.314
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I gave this a 2 out of 5 picot a guy.
40:35.334 --> 40:36.475
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
40:36.775 --> 40:51.543
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's something to be said here in terms of inequality of perceived attraction too of like She's the mom she's had a couple kids like we're also all human beings which is embarrassing And movie stars just aren't like he's been told his entire life.
40:51.703 --> 40:55.905
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the sexiest man alive and so don't just tell me that he's attentive prove it.
40:56.085 --> 40:59.367
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a friend who was a model and she told me that the
41:00.267 --> 41:05.949
[SPEAKER_01]: where sex she ever had in her life was always with models, because they just assumed that you're excited to be there with them.
41:06.589 --> 41:11.931
[SPEAKER_01]: I was wondering about that, like, as you're reading, that I was like, does he just suck at bed?
41:11.951 --> 41:12.892
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's really pretty.
41:13.792 --> 41:15.373
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
41:15.793 --> 41:17.293
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that one episode of 30 Rock.
41:18.434 --> 41:21.055
[SPEAKER_01]: And for that reason, I do wish that there was more detail.
41:21.195 --> 41:23.336
[SPEAKER_01]: They she talks about, like, we have sex all the time.
41:23.376 --> 41:27.997
[SPEAKER_01]: I would normally have thought this was crazy, but like, this is great, and I'm like, very happy.
41:31.719 --> 41:39.142
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, something that really like caught my attention during the synopsis was the former sexiest man alive.
41:39.302 --> 41:42.223
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that mean he's like a little older and like more washed up?
41:42.263 --> 41:48.945
[SPEAKER_02]: Would this have been less quote-unquote realistic if he was the current sexiest man alive?
41:48.985 --> 41:55.168
[SPEAKER_02]: Has he let himself go it all and is therefore more approachable for like us mere mortals?
41:57.209 --> 42:04.456
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, seems like a throw a word because like truly in the middle of this, he gets offered like a role as a superhero.
42:04.556 --> 42:05.937
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think that's easy.
42:07.499 --> 42:08.419
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there an age gap at all?
42:08.900 --> 42:09.781
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that's talked about.
42:10.161 --> 42:11.903
[SPEAKER_01]: So if there is it's not a problem.
42:12.423 --> 42:33.986
[SPEAKER_02]: This is kind of like a crazy question maybe to ask, but like I keep thinking about this as like far as like the self insert kind of thing goes for readers and the way it was marketed does this read as a Bella Edward situation where it's kind of like, but she's just another girl and he's x, y, z.
42:36.147 --> 42:37.108
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know what I'm trying to say?
42:37.328 --> 42:39.090
[SPEAKER_01]: I know exactly what you're talking about.
42:39.110 --> 42:43.034
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, the appeal is like, he picked me of all people.
42:43.095 --> 42:44.836
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong.
42:44.856 --> 42:46.698
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that is a romance trope.
42:46.718 --> 42:50.222
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not shitting on that romance trope, because it is really addictive.
42:50.583 --> 42:52.164
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think we are obsessed with Twilight?
42:52.204 --> 42:54.487
[SPEAKER_02]: That is absolutely a way to write a romance.
42:54.927 --> 42:56.289
[SPEAKER_02]: Did this fall into that category?
42:57.102 --> 43:01.803
[SPEAKER_01]: No because Nora has too strong of a personality for this to be a bellathon.
43:02.323 --> 43:03.523
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuck ya, love it.
43:04.024 --> 43:04.824
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely love it.
43:05.384 --> 43:13.646
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to change up the format a little bit because I feel like I have been picking apart some things you've said, but I know for a fact that you absolutely adored this book.
43:14.186 --> 43:21.607
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I wanna hear what you're taking with you next because you were so excited to talk about this book and I know that there's a lot in it that you absolutely loved.
43:21.687 --> 43:24.488
[SPEAKER_02]: So tell me about all the things you're taking with and why people should be reading it.
43:25.102 --> 43:40.139
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, actually, this really, it's very strongly to the Beckville test, too, because one of the things that I'm taking with me is this book really does talk about romance as a vehicle for growth, even when the other person isn't a part of the picture.
43:40.339 --> 43:42.341
[SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned that there's a lot of pain in this book.
43:42.401 --> 43:46.005
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to tell you exactly where it comes from, but I will mention that like,
43:46.778 --> 44:00.843
[SPEAKER_01]: Leo can be a little flaky part of this book and it's like very triggering and painful, but this book passes the bacterial test because of several amazing female friendships, but one that I really love is Nora's sister, Penny.
44:01.043 --> 44:02.044
[SPEAKER_01]: They are very different.
44:02.204 --> 44:09.546
[SPEAKER_01]: Penny is just like super wealthy, super driven, just like does not give a flying fuck.
44:09.566 --> 44:10.327
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Beyoncé.
44:10.347 --> 44:11.247
[SPEAKER_01]: She's 100% HBIC.
44:11.427 --> 44:14.208
[SPEAKER_01]: When Nora sells another script,
44:14.788 --> 44:19.050
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be a huge, huge deal for her financially.
44:19.290 --> 44:23.052
[SPEAKER_01]: She reaches out to her sister and is like What should I do with this?
44:23.212 --> 44:33.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you're the only rich person I know And I want to read a little bit from that exchange because that really stuck with me Money's energy.
44:33.257 --> 44:33.797
[SPEAKER_01]: She tells me.
44:34.337 --> 44:39.760
[SPEAKER_01]: I roll my eyes because I know this is going to be like the time She told me to move my bed to another wall to improve my sex life.
44:40.340 --> 44:43.702
[SPEAKER_01]: I should probably tell her that the real fix was moving Ben to another continent
44:47.111 --> 44:49.794
[SPEAKER_01]: You sent your heartbreak out into the world and it brought you money.
44:50.254 --> 44:54.178
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, before you send the money back out, try to imagine the feelings you want it to bring.
44:55.019 --> 44:57.301
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, brother, pen, seriously.
44:57.782 --> 45:00.384
[SPEAKER_01]: This was the last brand of crap I wanted to listen to right now.
45:01.085 --> 45:03.167
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm dead serious, and you need to be honest.
45:03.347 --> 45:06.070
[SPEAKER_01]: What you wanted to feel the way you felt when Leo was there.
45:06.731 --> 45:08.593
[SPEAKER_01]: You want me to pay Leo to come back.
45:09.273 --> 45:11.714
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, sometimes she makes me a little violent.
45:12.214 --> 45:13.954
[SPEAKER_01]: No, just replicate the feelings.
45:14.254 --> 45:15.794
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about it, even for a day.
45:16.314 --> 45:17.395
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you want to feel?
45:17.995 --> 45:21.575
[SPEAKER_01]: We hang up after I tell her I love her, even though she has no concept of reality.
45:21.995 --> 45:24.016
[SPEAKER_01]: And she replies that we create our own reality.
45:24.356 --> 45:26.756
[SPEAKER_01]: We end many, many conversations this way.
45:27.256 --> 45:29.317
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's tap two, means create your own reality.
45:32.497 --> 45:35.198
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'll never tell you to think about what energy you want your money to take.
45:36.992 --> 45:40.994
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really interesting PowerPoint for you to take, can you unpack what that meant for you?
45:41.034 --> 45:44.095
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't think that that is a conversation that would have stood out to me while breathing it.
45:44.656 --> 45:46.076
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so there are several layers here.
45:46.296 --> 45:53.500
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's the sister layer right where she opens herself up to her sister to be like, I have something good.
45:53.740 --> 45:56.141
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I do with something good instead of something bad?
45:56.201 --> 46:00.143
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like a whole new relationship level with her sister.
46:00.343 --> 46:01.163
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though she kind of
46:05.345 --> 46:08.508
[SPEAKER_01]: and she like actually thinks about like what was nice about this.
46:08.728 --> 46:13.371
[SPEAKER_01]: He would buy me things and I would just have them without feeling guilty about buying them for myself.
46:13.471 --> 46:15.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I can go get myself nicer towels.
46:15.953 --> 46:16.574
[SPEAKER_01]: I have money.
46:17.054 --> 46:17.735
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I want?
46:17.795 --> 46:20.677
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to feel secure and I felt secure at the time.
46:20.797 --> 46:30.384
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's like I can do like a kitchen remodel so that everything isn't constantly pissing me off and I feel like I have the support and security that I had in that moment.
46:34.254 --> 46:50.641
[SPEAKER_01]: that I can take ownership of, so that I'm not relying on someone else to create that sense of caring for myself, of feeling supported, to use something going to fill her own cup, as opposed to immediately pouring it into someone else's.
46:51.322 --> 46:56.644
[SPEAKER_01]: And like the relationship taught her how to feel those good feelings without going.
46:56.824 --> 46:58.065
[SPEAKER_02]: So romantic.
46:58.825 --> 47:03.871
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, that's so fucking fantastic because that's what romance should be, right?
47:03.911 --> 47:07.815
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not all about just saving the other person or that other person saving you.
47:07.835 --> 47:08.796
[SPEAKER_02]: I really love that.
47:09.016 --> 47:09.997
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I've brought this up before.
47:10.017 --> 47:13.441
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought fucking lifehouse or nickel backlier a whoever said it.
47:14.903 --> 47:16.904
[SPEAKER_02]: you have to love yourself before you get ever loved me.
47:16.984 --> 47:17.765
[SPEAKER_02]: That's very real.
47:18.766 --> 47:28.194
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's appropriate for people who are at the stages of their life that these characters are in sounds like he's exhausted by his own career and sounds like he's exhausted by her own life.
47:28.795 --> 47:30.316
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, finding the power to
47:31.537 --> 47:46.161
[SPEAKER_02]: create realities in which you are relying on yourself and you are taking more control over the reality that you're living in is really powerful and it sets you up for a much healthier relationship to and yet, right?
47:46.881 --> 47:49.962
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah I remember it my therapist once used this metaphor of like
47:50.882 --> 47:51.982
[SPEAKER_01]: A bed has two pillows.
47:52.123 --> 47:56.964
[SPEAKER_01]: If you are taking up half of someone else's pillow and your own pillow, you're taking up too much of the bed.
47:57.364 --> 48:02.886
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you are taking up too much of the emotional labor of what it takes for someone to function.
48:03.126 --> 48:05.347
[SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't caring for her whole pillow.
48:05.427 --> 48:06.888
[SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't taking her whole space.
48:07.328 --> 48:09.649
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really cool to see a
48:10.449 --> 48:22.642
[SPEAKER_01]: heartbreak portrayed in that empowering way and I think being able to say I deserve my own success, I deserve my own happiness even though the wake of all of that is especially powerful.
48:23.042 --> 48:32.012
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like you and I both come at contemporary romance with a lot of trepidation because it is easier to be like
48:32.902 --> 48:45.352
[SPEAKER_02]: I can excuse their behavior because they're also fighting dragons, or I can excuse their behavior because this is happening in a kink club, but when it's just like real person shit.
48:46.748 --> 48:47.549
[SPEAKER_02]: out in the world.
48:48.510 --> 48:49.471
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot.
48:49.531 --> 48:53.816
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot to take on in people who only read contemporary romance.
48:54.457 --> 48:55.458
[SPEAKER_02]: I applaud you.
48:55.478 --> 48:58.601
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how you do it.
48:58.661 --> 49:01.564
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to have that total escape from reality.
49:01.584 --> 49:04.988
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't find it that necessarily in especially straight contemporary romance.
49:05.228 --> 49:29.135
[SPEAKER_02]: This is why it's important, though, because there are these lessons to be learned, and we talk all the time about how romance creates a space for us to learn and talk about our feelings, and talk about what's important, identifying what's healthy and maybe isn't, and that a big gray area in between depending on the people or the characters, and I feel like that's a lesson that's really important for people to be reading about, because it's so powerful.
49:29.715 --> 49:35.140
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it's a big part of the instruction manual on how to read a good life that none of us have ever read.
49:37.582 --> 49:39.284
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we get a chapter to hear in there.
49:39.364 --> 49:40.225
[SPEAKER_02]: Usually way too late.
49:40.325 --> 49:45.369
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what are you leaving behind besides, you know, not having his POB and wanting more sex?
49:46.070 --> 49:46.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Great question.
49:47.371 --> 49:48.172
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are two things.
49:48.652 --> 49:51.735
[SPEAKER_01]: Also just like huge amounts of pain in a romance novel.
49:52.195 --> 49:54.818
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy it sometimes, but I like need a moment.
49:55.358 --> 50:17.293
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I mean, I think that there's like several different ways we see that because like as we're talking about this I've been thinking about like other books that I've read where like maybe the relationship can be front and center because the characters were dealing with other things and did I still consider that a romance novel and I read one recently where one of the characters was when the book started was being rescued from a sex trafficking operation.
50:24.580 --> 50:37.846
[SPEAKER_02]: healing from that and slowly building a relationship over time with one of the people that rescued them and making sure that it was appropriate and not just transference or a hero complex.
50:37.906 --> 50:41.928
[SPEAKER_02]: That's an extreme example for a kind of a darker romance and that being very pure.
50:41.968 --> 50:49.091
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, it was very slow burn because neither character could just jump into a relationship.
50:49.531 --> 50:50.992
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was a romance novel.
50:52.127 --> 50:57.190
[SPEAKER_02]: about the slow burn and and healing, even though healing was the main part of the story.
50:57.650 --> 51:01.572
[SPEAKER_02]: But that was also when we're came with the ton of pain, but it wasn't pain between the people.
51:01.612 --> 51:08.775
[SPEAKER_02]: It's trying to recover and move towards something else, whereas it sounds like the pain in this one was very centered in and around the relation.
51:09.656 --> 51:10.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct, yes.
51:10.536 --> 51:14.138
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're going to a romance novel and you're like, I want to feel love.
51:14.908 --> 51:24.777
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're like, oh no, like, I feel like there should be just a little like sticker, but it's just caution, please be careful.
51:28.360 --> 51:32.243
[SPEAKER_01]: I did write in my notes under leaving the cover.
51:32.323 --> 51:34.425
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel Nora would not have approved.
51:38.960 --> 51:39.801
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
51:40.161 --> 51:42.502
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I would love to know with all of her thought of the cover.
51:43.343 --> 51:44.283
[SPEAKER_01]: I would also love to know.
51:44.303 --> 51:47.726
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll as Annabelle to Annabelle reach out.
51:48.286 --> 51:56.471
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing I am leaving as well is I wish that there had been like slightly more distance between the regular world and this world.
51:57.111 --> 52:02.655
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I had a really hard time just because of the character names not picturing Nora Afron and Leonardo DiCaprio.
52:06.620 --> 52:08.542
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, I'm just taking a huge gulp of wine.
52:08.622 --> 52:10.223
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what that was of so-so.
52:15.968 --> 52:16.629
[SPEAKER_02]: Yikes!
52:20.692 --> 52:22.634
[SPEAKER_02]: Who are you kidding yourself, Leonardo Caprio?
52:22.654 --> 52:24.115
[SPEAKER_02]: You would not be sleeping with a mom.
52:24.556 --> 52:28.119
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he did currently break his streak and he's finally dating a 29-year-old.
52:28.239 --> 52:29.580
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, good work.
52:29.720 --> 52:31.441
[SPEAKER_01]: So he'll probably dump her before 30, though.
52:32.769 --> 52:34.110
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, that was so mean.
52:34.930 --> 52:36.211
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that they're happy.
52:36.231 --> 52:39.113
[SPEAKER_02]: We're here simply reflecting on the patterns that he has set.
52:40.594 --> 52:43.595
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the past is not a good predictor of the future and sometimes it is.
52:44.016 --> 52:44.936
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
52:44.976 --> 52:46.497
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to leave it at that anyway.
52:49.388 --> 52:52.851
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take definitely a lot of the like self-knowledge and growth.
52:52.971 --> 53:00.838
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to quote you last week and I know this because Richie texted me when he was listening to the episode last week's episode.
53:01.278 --> 53:02.599
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what do you think?
53:03.800 --> 53:06.663
[SPEAKER_01]: He's favorite quote was I'm a slut for character development.
53:06.903 --> 53:07.504
[SPEAKER_01]: I am.
53:08.832 --> 53:10.213
[SPEAKER_01]: who's like, what that on our shirt?
53:11.815 --> 53:13.277
[SPEAKER_01]: And this book definitely fits that bill.
53:13.677 --> 53:16.820
[SPEAKER_01]: You can be a slut for this book too, because it's got a lot of character development.
53:17.041 --> 53:18.222
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I love it.
53:18.562 --> 53:19.143
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
53:19.623 --> 53:20.324
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
53:21.105 --> 53:23.167
[SPEAKER_02]: It's where she gonna read in Morning Glory, milking porn.
53:23.848 --> 53:24.268
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably.
53:24.288 --> 53:25.289
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'll really enjoy it.
53:25.309 --> 53:27.532
[SPEAKER_01]: A couple more things that I'm gonna take from this book.
53:28.332 --> 53:29.734
[SPEAKER_01]: Not knowing the ending was really fun.
53:30.034 --> 53:31.155
[SPEAKER_01]: And being like, okay.
53:32.016 --> 53:38.297
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't tell if this is a happy ending or a sad ending and I don't know when things will change or if they will.
53:38.317 --> 53:39.218
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very fun.
53:39.638 --> 53:43.939
[SPEAKER_01]: That's part of why I'm not revealing the ending for you guys because I selfishly want to replicate my experience.
53:44.099 --> 53:46.019
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, like, there's a certain slowness.
53:46.479 --> 53:53.561
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, even though her life is really crazy, it's very like regimented and routine driven and she always finds morning sunrises.
53:54.225 --> 53:56.747
[SPEAKER_01]: with coffee on the porch and like watches the whole thing.
53:57.508 --> 54:02.592
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's like a certain amount of like stillness that I kind of wanted to bring into my own life and reading it was lovely.
54:02.612 --> 54:04.493
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm definitely going to take that with me.
54:05.834 --> 54:07.095
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
54:07.736 --> 54:08.517
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
54:08.737 --> 54:10.798
[SPEAKER_02]: And you mentioned it does pass the back door test.
54:11.459 --> 54:12.820
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and it is not the end.
54:13.381 --> 54:14.782
[SPEAKER_02]: Who would you recommend this to?
54:15.487 --> 54:24.489
[SPEAKER_01]: I would recommend this book to someone who feels stuck or who's very focused on caring for other people who might want a moment for themselves.
54:24.649 --> 54:34.411
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like giving books to people who I think are similar to the main character, so someone who schedules everything or who presents as the responsible one in their life.
54:34.991 --> 54:39.872
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this would be a nice fun and painful and rewarding escape and reminder.
54:43.334 --> 54:43.835
[SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.
54:44.036 --> 54:46.201
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's time for my favorite part of the episode.
54:46.341 --> 54:47.825
[SPEAKER_02]: What are some of your favorite quotes in the book?
54:48.462 --> 54:51.083
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, before we do that, I do need to tell you about my road trip buddies.
54:51.463 --> 54:51.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, shit.
54:52.064 --> 54:52.624
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
54:52.644 --> 54:54.105
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
54:54.165 --> 54:55.265
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so excited for the quotes.
54:56.446 --> 54:57.767
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm making Penny, her sister.
54:58.107 --> 55:00.208
[SPEAKER_01]: She can like payroll her whole way through.
55:00.228 --> 55:01.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuck you.
55:01.729 --> 55:05.170
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also kind of want to bring Brinda Dad the little girl because she's great.
55:05.350 --> 55:06.311
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's super fun.
55:06.571 --> 55:07.892
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that name, Brinda Dad.
55:07.932 --> 55:08.272
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
55:08.452 --> 55:09.833
[SPEAKER_01]: I met a dog named Brinda Dad once.
55:10.053 --> 55:11.093
[SPEAKER_01]: The only Brinda Dad I've met.
55:11.634 --> 55:15.936
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like if you are a dog named Brinda Dad, you need to either be a Poodle.
55:16.716 --> 55:17.436
[SPEAKER_02]: or a wiener dog.
55:17.476 --> 55:20.477
[SPEAKER_02]: She was a rot-wilder.
55:21.037 --> 55:22.797
[SPEAKER_02]: So good.
55:26.938 --> 55:27.558
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
55:29.538 --> 55:30.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm going to give you a couple of quotes.
55:30.939 --> 55:31.939
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's your favorite part.
55:32.219 --> 55:36.820
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to start with one that's like a little tandy, and a little painful about ooner quality.
55:37.100 --> 55:38.260
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm girding my lines.
55:38.540 --> 55:41.381
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, it's morning, and I'm feeling careful.
55:42.021 --> 55:43.841
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a potential new reality out there.
55:44.389 --> 55:45.650
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to let it incubate.
55:46.330 --> 55:49.673
[SPEAKER_01]: If I open my heart to it too fully, it will surely disappear.
55:50.093 --> 55:51.054
[SPEAKER_01]: And then two more.
55:51.715 --> 55:51.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
55:52.295 --> 55:53.936
[SPEAKER_01]: This is after a kiss.
55:54.697 --> 55:54.857
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
55:55.658 --> 55:57.479
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been thinking about that for a long time.
55:57.539 --> 56:00.041
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, you only met me two weeks ago.
56:01.242 --> 56:02.783
[SPEAKER_01]: Leo laughs and kisses my shoulder.
56:03.404 --> 56:05.185
[SPEAKER_01]: You really aren't very romantic, are you?
56:06.288 --> 56:09.170
[SPEAKER_01]: I might be an overthinker, I'll fix you.
56:09.850 --> 56:12.151
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, and I turn around to face him.
56:12.572 --> 56:16.934
[SPEAKER_01]: He's joking, but I love the idea of being on the other side of the fixing equation.
56:17.554 --> 56:19.715
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the idea that he thinks I'm worth the trouble.
56:20.276 --> 56:23.658
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that buried deep in that sentence is a hint of the future tense.
56:24.818 --> 56:25.339
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
56:25.359 --> 56:26.459
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
56:26.779 --> 56:29.261
[SPEAKER_02]: That just gets to the heart of so many romance novels, right?
56:29.281 --> 56:30.221
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
56:31.842 --> 56:32.983
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, and cute cold play.
56:33.243 --> 56:33.423
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
56:35.540 --> 56:36.821
[SPEAKER_01]: the final quote.
56:37.061 --> 56:38.182
[SPEAKER_01]: The best things come back.
56:39.163 --> 56:42.285
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's right after the commercial, sometimes it takes longer.
56:42.986 --> 56:47.529
[SPEAKER_01]: But time and sunshine bring growth and life unfolds just the way it's supposed to.
56:48.230 --> 56:48.730
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it does.
56:50.051 --> 56:50.792
[SPEAKER_02]: Q atmosphere.
56:53.374 --> 56:54.234
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are lovely.
56:55.035 --> 56:57.197
[SPEAKER_02]: Overall, do you like animal monahan's writing?
56:57.797 --> 56:58.858
[SPEAKER_02]: I did, I really did.
56:59.018 --> 56:59.919
[SPEAKER_02]: I was very impressed.
57:00.359 --> 57:01.680
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to start an Annabelle club.
57:02.221 --> 57:03.722
[SPEAKER_02]: When you come with three quotes ready,
57:09.226 --> 57:11.908
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, all right, lovely job, Annabelle.
57:11.988 --> 57:14.189
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I learned a lot about Nora goes off script.
57:14.729 --> 57:15.270
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
57:15.510 --> 57:15.870
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
57:15.910 --> 57:16.931
[SPEAKER_02]: This was a really fun one.
57:17.131 --> 57:17.971
[SPEAKER_02]: What do we have up next?
57:18.431 --> 57:20.753
[SPEAKER_02]: We are going to be interviewing Amelia Cole.
57:20.893 --> 57:30.158
[SPEAKER_02]: This actually will be the final title in our requests from our campaign to raise money for the Immigrant Law Center of Minnesota.
57:30.639 --> 57:36.302
[SPEAKER_02]: Amelia reached out to us and she was a very clever author and said, I'm going to donate an ask you to read my book.
57:36.842 --> 57:38.043
[SPEAKER_02]: At least we're going to do you one better.
57:38.063 --> 57:40.204
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have it on the podcast after we read it.
57:41.705 --> 57:44.427
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that is called Shadowbound by Amelia Cole.
57:44.868 --> 57:48.670
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a several part romanticy series.
57:48.770 --> 57:50.231
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just part way through the first book.
57:50.251 --> 57:52.553
[SPEAKER_02]: I do know that it is why choose.
57:52.653 --> 57:55.935
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I've already met two of the options already in the book.
57:58.103 --> 58:06.326
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, and I know the horses are a big part of it that's actually dedicated to horse girls and y'all know my My story with the term horse girls.
58:07.607 --> 58:08.607
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm keeping it open mind.
58:08.947 --> 58:14.669
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but it's very fun I'd spend a long time since I've gone back to Rome and to see so This is a really nice excuse to go back into it.
58:14.749 --> 58:15.109
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
58:15.129 --> 58:22.452
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm nearly as so much for donating I want to do a couple shoutouts to Coral Rivera and the Manchino for also donating.
58:22.772 --> 58:23.872
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so so much.
58:24.172 --> 58:25.913
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what should we ask this in our story?
58:25.953 --> 58:29.035
[SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned that the book is the first book, at least, is dedicated to horse girls.
58:30.175 --> 58:35.138
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's because horses play a big theme, but it's not a horse how you think of a horse.
58:35.658 --> 58:44.742
[SPEAKER_02]: Amelia has taken some like fantastical liberties and kind of like created her own version of a horse that you know, fits the bill for Romanticy land.
58:45.242 --> 58:53.927
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what I want to know for next week, if you got to create your own fantastical companion, what would it be?
58:55.448 --> 58:55.888
[SPEAKER_02]: beautiful.
58:56.388 --> 58:58.549
[SPEAKER_02]: I am already drinking due out in my mind.
58:58.929 --> 59:01.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my, well, that's the thing because it can't be something that already exists.
59:01.269 --> 59:03.690
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't want you to be like, I want a Griffin that I can ride.
59:04.090 --> 59:09.131
[SPEAKER_02]: Or I want a fairy on my shoulder, like, no, no, I need to guys to get creative.
59:09.151 --> 59:10.672
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Ann, about how are you drinking out through it?
59:11.172 --> 59:11.972
[SPEAKER_02]: He can whisper.
59:11.992 --> 59:15.873
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you have to get down really close to here when he's saying, but he can talk.
59:17.034 --> 59:20.197
[SPEAKER_01]: And he can tell me all about like the different smells and the city and stuff.
59:20.297 --> 59:23.460
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he has this ability a little bit now, but I would intensify it.
59:24.041 --> 59:26.943
[SPEAKER_01]: If he makes eye contact with you, you go under the thrall.
59:28.025 --> 59:30.827
[SPEAKER_02]: Look up fire thrall, like Carmilla thrall.
59:31.228 --> 59:31.488
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
59:33.700 --> 59:40.963
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he, whenever someone's passing on the street, he always looks right at their face, and they always go, oh, and so I think he already has a little bit.
59:40.983 --> 59:41.064
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
59:41.184 --> 59:52.949
[SPEAKER_02]: Great example, Ann Bell, because you guys can just literally like give your pet fantastical elements, or you can just like create some monstrosity of your own.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you could have a giraffe that has like, rungs on his neck so you can climb down from your second floor apartment, you know?
01:00:01.702 --> 01:00:06.006
[SPEAKER_01]: cool fantastical stuff, all right.
01:00:06.446 --> 01:00:10.009
[SPEAKER_02]: Create your perfect fantastical companion.
01:00:10.369 --> 01:00:14.613
[SPEAKER_02]: As always, thank you so much for listening and happy, happy reading.
01:00:19.961 --> 01:00:23.144
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much for listening to another episode of Paperback Pleasures.
01:00:23.524 --> 01:00:28.808
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[SPEAKER_02]: The links to these can be found in the episode description.
01:00:47.845 --> 01:00:50.428
[SPEAKER_02]: This week's book synopsis was narrated by Layla Lee.
01:00:50.968 --> 01:00:53.771
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be back next week to keep talking romance until then.
01:00:54.111 --> 01:00:54.752
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy raiding!