WEBVTT
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Before we dive into the real world packaging insights with the people who know it best, our team, our partners, and other industry pros.
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Let's get started.
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Good morning, Cindy.
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I'm fine.
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Okay, I got a question for you today.
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Have you ever been to Wisconsin?
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I have.
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I have been to Wisconsin.
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I have been to Wisconsin many times, and I have found that it's a beautiful state.
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They have wonderful people.
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Everyone I've met from Wisconsin, down to earth, good people.
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They have outstanding dive bars with many unique games that are only found in Wisconsin.
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Okay, okay and they also have our guest who's gonna join us today.
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We're joined by Jason Kitowski, who is the vice president of sales at Radius Packaging in Wisconsin.
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With over 11 years experience in consumer packaging, Jason is passionate about design and delivering packaging solutions to help his customers succeed.
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And today we're gonna focus on sustainability and packaging.
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Hey Jason, welcome to Pack It Like It's Hot.
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How are you doing?
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I'm doing great.
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Appreciate the invite.
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Nice being here with you.
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We're glad you're here.
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Very glad you're here.
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Very glad you're here.
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So so Jason, from the moving to Wisconsin, I know, really.
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That was almost like a promo for the state.
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It it it it's really a cool state.
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I've told people this before.
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You have a lot to offer.
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You only have one Great Lake.
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We have all the Great Lakes in Michigan, mine is Ontario.
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But uh, it's a lot of fun.
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And uh, I'm coming out to see you this summer, though.
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So we'll we'll uh we'll have important.
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Yeah, for sure.
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Excellent.
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All right, Jason.
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So for listeners who may not be familiar, can you give a quick overview of Radius Packaging and what uh your company specializes in?
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Yeah, we are a rigid plastic packaging uh provider, and um we do blow molding, we do injection molding, we do injection stretch blow molding, we have a variety of different technologies, which really gives us the ability to support our customers depending on the scope of the project, right?
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So we've got massive high cavitation machines fully automated for big scale, big volume.
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Um, and we have smaller platform machines for opportunities where we're looking to do the design and development and get started.
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And you know, the the growth trajectory is somewhat unclear, right?
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Because it's a new project that's gonna launch and um you know don't always know where the consumer behavior is gonna take us.
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So it allows us to get into it at lower cost, lower volume.
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Uh and then if that business takes off, we've got all sorts of options as we continue to scale up.
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We've got two production facilities down in southeast Wisconsin.
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Um, so a lot of redundancies there.
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Uh, run a variety of materials from polyethylene to polyprobe to PET to some um bioresin, um, you know, different types of PCR, um, multi-layer, monolayer, uh, all sorts of different stuff to offer.
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So we like to get really engaged with our customers and understand what is it, the need uh and desire they're after, and you know, be more of a full solutions provider to say, hey, here's a couple of different ways we can go about this.
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Uh, how does this fit what you're looking for?
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And you mentioned PCR and bioresin there, and I'm sure we'll hear a little bit more about that today, as our focus is going to be on sustainability, right?
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So, yeah, that's a great segue.
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It's like we planned that.
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So, so tell us tell us more about sustainability and packaging.
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What does that mean?
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And and not just in theory, but in practice, when day-to-day, what does that mean when we talk about sustainability?
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Yeah, I think you know, sustainability is is a big buzzword and it's been around for a while, but it definitely has evolved.
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I think early on, you know, when you thought of sustainability, it was like, oh, it was the package itself.
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You know, if it goes into uh the disposal or the garbage that it's going to um, you know, break down um, you know, what's the recyclability of that particular package?
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I think as time has gone on, it's become much broader, right?
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You've got your scope, one, two, and three emissions that people are starting to track.
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And it's it's not so much the package as it's what's the amount of energy or waste or consumption it takes to produce that material.
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Um, you know, the freight part of it.
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Are your facilities um, you know, what are you doing in your facilities to improve sustainability?
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It's really about carbon footprint reduction and things like that.
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So it is expanded further out than just the package.
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Sure.
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Great point, great point.
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I see a lot of talk out there on uh to that point on uh life cycle uh LCAs and uh seeing a lot of eco-voto's uh conversations that uh both suppliers and customers have.
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So I think those sound like areas that that you're driving at, right?
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It's more than just yeah, more than just the bottle, right?
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What else are we doing?
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Good stuff.
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But for years we've seen that brands will talk about, oh, they want to be sustainable in this and they want to do this, and this is our goal.
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And then what they're actually willing to implement has not been the same thing.
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It hasn't really leveled.
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So are you seeing any shifts in that?
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Are you seeing that kind of are that the goal is matching more of the behavior, or is there still that disconnect?
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You know, again, I think it's an evolution.
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Um, I I think everybody here wants to take care of planet Earth, right?
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And they want to do the right thing.
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Right.
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But at the end of the day, it's there's a cost associated with it, right?
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So everybody would love to have 100% recycled content made in your container, sure.
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But there's some limitations, right?
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There's going to be costs that are tied to that.
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And what's the consumer willing to absorb for that?
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And and you have a group of consumers that are willing to pay a premium to have that.
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And I think that demographic is is slowly growing, but I think a lot of it is just the industry catching up to it as well, right?
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How that how can they be more efficient in the collection of recyclable materials and doing the recycling and cleaning it, getting it out?
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Um, over the years, I there's been more varieties of PCR available.
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Um, you know, you've got your your natural, your sorted, which is basically coming from milk jugs.
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Um, you know, that comes at a premium.
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But you've got your mixed color PCR now, which they'll take, you know, your Thai bottles, your other, you know, they'll blend it all together and you've got kind of a grayish tint to it.
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You've got a variety of different materials that are in there.
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Uh, so there's some processing challenges that will come with it, but for specific markets, that's gonna be okay.
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Um, you know, something that's in chemical cleaning or cat litter, great.
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Um, we could use those types of materials.
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You know, food grade product, probably not gonna want to do that.
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You're gonna want to use something more higher-end uh or a bio-based type of resin.
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So I think everybody wants to get to that point.
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It's the scale and the cost associated and what brands are able to absorb it and which ones aren't.
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Before we continue, we'd like to thank you for listening.
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Each month you have a chance to win a $50 Amazon gift card and a Packet Locus Podcast Local Coffee Month of our podcast giveaway.
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During this episode, we've heard a designated keyword.
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This month's keyword is lightweight.
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You can submit that keyword on our website through the podcast giveway page mjspackaging.com slash podcast giveaway for a chance to win.
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Let's select what else will enter at random at the end of the contest period.
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See the official rules on our website as well.
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Now let's get back to the conversation.
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So we we've heard you mentioned, and anyone listening to this podcast has probably heard PCR, bio-based resin, light weighting, and so on.
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When you're when you're laying in bed at night and you can't sleep, and you roll over and you tap your wife on the shoulder, say, hey honey, I want to talk to you about X.
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Which one of these do you want to talk about with her?
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Well, and will she listen at that point of the night?
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I usually get the uh you're crazy, go to bed, you're driving me nuts.
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Fair.
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But as as far as the sustainable materials, I I think they they all have their own place, right?
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So again, the the PCR, and if I'm thinking of of polyethylene and specifically, you know, that's where we have all of our newer equipment that we've been purchasing for the last few years is is multi-layer, right?
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So we can do a mixed color PCR.
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The cost of it is much lower than going to a natural sorted um type of PCR, but it's got that gray color looking, right?
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So this way we can bury it in the middle layer, we can hide that to some degree.
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It allows us to put 20, 30 percent of PCR into it.
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Um, and you kind of hide that, but it keeps the cost somewhat reasonable.
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And that technology has allowed us to do that, and that's more in your, I'll say your home care cleaning uh markets and your industries, right?
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When you get into the food grade side of it, we've been pivoting more towards the bio-based resins, which you know comes in like a virgin pellet material, but that has been produced from, you know, instead of oils or gases, it's coming from like sugarcane, for example.
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So, you know, have some of the sustainability benefits tied to it.
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Now, again, that's that comes at a premium.
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Um, you know, so it's all up to our customer of well, how how much can we add um you know where the price point still makes sense?
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That's good stuff.
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Yeah.
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And and how does that reality check conversation go?
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Someone tells you, you know, I want to be fully sustainable.
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What what are you what are you kind of having to tell them?
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Yeah, I mean that's a great question because what does that really mean?
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You know, everybody has a different definition, right?
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Is it I want my container to go into the garbage and it's gonna break down uh in the landfill in two weeks.
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Maybe for some people that's what they want to see.
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Uh again, I think fully sustainable, all of all of the plastic materials that we use, they're 100% recyclable.
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Um so that's important.
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And I think that's something that's been, you know, I'm in plastics, so I'm biased to it.
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And there's other materials out there, and they all have their benefits.
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Um, I think plastics get a bad rap sometimes.
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Um, and I think it's somewhat unfair, in my opinion.
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But sure.
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Yeah, I agree.
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Without plastic, we would be uh living in a different world.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So if you could uh wave your magic wand and fast track one change across the entire packaging industry in regard to stain sustainability, what would you do?
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That's a good question.
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You know, I I think it's I think it comes down to the understanding of it like big picture.
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Again, I talked about there's different materials that have different benefits.
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You take glass, for example.
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I mean, glass seems to be the general population is like, oh, that's recyclable.
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We should we should use that again to produce a glass container is multiple.
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I mean, to the tune of eight, ten times more energy consumption to produce, it's very heavy to freight it to move it around.
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Like, so again, I think the perception of what all of this is, um, it's somewhat skewed in the general population at times.
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So if there was a way to have very clear information and the general population to really understand the benefits of of what this means, going back to fully sustainable, you know, let's think big picture here.
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Um, I mean, plastics is a phenomenal material.
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I mean, for delivering goods safely, um, you know, keeping them protected and you know, for the consumer when they open it up, that's that's really what it is.
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I mean, the packaging is a delivery vehicle for whatever that content is inside the consumers are are after.
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Right, right, right, right.
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Great point.
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Great.
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Now it is, it is.
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And are we ever going to get to the point where we can completely do away with any one material?
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I mean, I I mean certain types of plastics maybe, but you can't, I just don't see how that would be a thing, right?
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I I don't think so either.
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And I think a lot of it comes down to the infrastructure to collect it and process it and recycle it, right?
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I mean, I I'm in the industry, so I'm a little more like okay, I keep my stuff in the recycle bin and I do that, but there's a lot of people that they just throw the stuff in the trash.
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So it's gotta start from the consumer that really wants this or want that wants to talk about it.
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That you know it it's a big picture.
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It's not a you know, it's not a plastics processor problem or anything like that.
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It takes everybody's effort to do this.
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Do you do you uh and I do this, so full disclosure, do you get after your family for throwing the wrong things into the bin?
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Because I do.
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Oh, you bet.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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I make my kids shovel the driveway.
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Well, I mean, they do that anyway.
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They don't listen most of the time, but sure.
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Right.
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Plastic in the garbage, you're out.
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You got laundry, you clean your toilet toilets this week.
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Absolutely.
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We've got uh uh a little makeshift dental chair in our basement that I send them down to and uh I perform um no no we don't do that, but it it is fascinating, and and even my young younger kids that aren't that young, they they struggle with what is and what is not recyclable.
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And then of course uh my in-laws who are uh significantly older, it's it's always interesting to look in their recycle bin when we visit.
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That's that's good for a laugh.
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Um but they're well intended, and but that's the challenge, the consumer.
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It starts with the consumer, and we need to understand what we can and cannot do.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And there's a lot you can do to design for sustainability too.
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Uh, I think in a lot of our products, the light weighting side of it, we've pushed those those limits, right?
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So now you've got to design, you know, radiuses and corners and things to help get the integrity of the package you still need.
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But it it does become challenging when it's such a thin wall package already.
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Right.
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, we've all seen examples of of products that have gone too far the other way with the light weighting, and you're barely able to hold it without the product squeezing out or almost collapsing onto itself.
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So yeah, there's definitely a balance there.
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There is.
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There is a sharing.
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Yes, yes, thanks.
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We just invite some side.
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All right, we will thank you.
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Thanks for listening to our MJS podcast.
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Apple Spotify for YouTube next month when we will be joined by another packaging expert.
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And remember, packaging solutions are just a click away at MJspackaging.
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Before we dive into the real world packaging insights with the people who know it best, our team, our partners, and other industry pros.
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Let's get started.
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Good morning, Cindy.
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I'm fine.
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Okay, I got a question for you today.
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Have you ever been to Wisconsin?
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I have.
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I have been to Wisconsin.
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I have been to Wisconsin many times, and I have found that it's a beautiful state.
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They have wonderful people.
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Everyone I've met from Wisconsin, down to earth, good people.
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They have outstanding dive bars with many unique games that are only found in Wisconsin.
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Okay, okay and they also have our guest who's gonna join us today.
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We're joined by Jason Kitowski, who is the vice president of sales at Radius Packaging in Wisconsin.
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With over 11 years experience in consumer packaging, Jason is passionate about design and delivering packaging solutions to help his customers succeed.
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And today we're gonna focus on sustainability and packaging.
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Hey Jason, welcome to Pack It Like It's Hot.
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How are you doing?
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I'm doing great.
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Appreciate the invite.
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Nice being here with you.
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We're glad you're here.
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Very glad you're here.
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Very glad you're here.
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So so Jason, from the moving to Wisconsin, I know, really.
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That was almost like a promo for the state.
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It it it it's really a cool state.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:37.359
I've told people this before.
00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:38.799
You have a lot to offer.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:40.319
You only have one Great Lake.
00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:43.599
We have all the Great Lakes in Michigan, mine is Ontario.
00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:45.120
But uh, it's a lot of fun.
00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:47.120
And uh, I'm coming out to see you this summer, though.
00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.040
So we'll we'll uh we'll have important.
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:49.840
Yeah, for sure.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:50.959
Excellent.
00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:52.079
All right, Jason.
00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:58.480
So for listeners who may not be familiar, can you give a quick overview of Radius Packaging and what uh your company specializes in?
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:22.319
Yeah, we are a rigid plastic packaging uh provider, and um we do blow molding, we do injection molding, we do injection stretch blow molding, we have a variety of different technologies, which really gives us the ability to support our customers depending on the scope of the project, right?
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:29.120
So we've got massive high cavitation machines fully automated for big scale, big volume.
00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:36.400
Um, and we have smaller platform machines for opportunities where we're looking to do the design and development and get started.
00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.719
And you know, the the growth trajectory is somewhat unclear, right?
00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:47.680
Because it's a new project that's gonna launch and um you know don't always know where the consumer behavior is gonna take us.
00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:51.919
So it allows us to get into it at lower cost, lower volume.
00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:57.680
Uh and then if that business takes off, we've got all sorts of options as we continue to scale up.
00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:01.439
We've got two production facilities down in southeast Wisconsin.
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.599
Um, so a lot of redundancies there.
00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:20.879
Uh, run a variety of materials from polyethylene to polyprobe to PET to some um bioresin, um, you know, different types of PCR, um, multi-layer, monolayer, uh, all sorts of different stuff to offer.
00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:34.000
So we like to get really engaged with our customers and understand what is it, the need uh and desire they're after, and you know, be more of a full solutions provider to say, hey, here's a couple of different ways we can go about this.
00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.319
Uh, how does this fit what you're looking for?
00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:43.280
And you mentioned PCR and bioresin there, and I'm sure we'll hear a little bit more about that today, as our focus is going to be on sustainability, right?
00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:45.520
So, yeah, that's a great segue.
00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:46.960
It's like we planned that.
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.280
So, so tell us tell us more about sustainability and packaging.
00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:52.240
What does that mean?
00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:59.360
And and not just in theory, but in practice, when day-to-day, what does that mean when we talk about sustainability?
00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:07.360
Yeah, I think you know, sustainability is is a big buzzword and it's been around for a while, but it definitely has evolved.
00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:13.120
I think early on, you know, when you thought of sustainability, it was like, oh, it was the package itself.
00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:24.240
You know, if it goes into uh the disposal or the garbage that it's going to um, you know, break down um, you know, what's the recyclability of that particular package?
00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:28.800
I think as time has gone on, it's become much broader, right?
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.560
You've got your scope, one, two, and three emissions that people are starting to track.
00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:41.120
And it's it's not so much the package as it's what's the amount of energy or waste or consumption it takes to produce that material.
00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.360
Um, you know, the freight part of it.
00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:49.759
Are your facilities um, you know, what are you doing in your facilities to improve sustainability?
00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:53.759
It's really about carbon footprint reduction and things like that.
00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.600
So it is expanded further out than just the package.
00:04:57.920 --> 00:04:58.160
Sure.
00:04:58.160 --> 00:04:59.360
Great point, great point.
00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:12.000
I see a lot of talk out there on uh to that point on uh life cycle uh LCAs and uh seeing a lot of eco-voto's uh conversations that uh both suppliers and customers have.
00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.680
So I think those sound like areas that that you're driving at, right?
00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.879
It's more than just yeah, more than just the bottle, right?
00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:19.839
What else are we doing?
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:21.920
Good stuff.
00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:30.240
But for years we've seen that brands will talk about, oh, they want to be sustainable in this and they want to do this, and this is our goal.
00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:34.399
And then what they're actually willing to implement has not been the same thing.
00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:35.680
It hasn't really leveled.
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:37.519
So are you seeing any shifts in that?
00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:43.279
Are you seeing that kind of are that the goal is matching more of the behavior, or is there still that disconnect?
00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:46.639
You know, again, I think it's an evolution.
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.199
Um, I I think everybody here wants to take care of planet Earth, right?
00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:52.639
And they want to do the right thing.
00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:53.040
Right.
00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:57.439
But at the end of the day, it's there's a cost associated with it, right?
00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:04.240
So everybody would love to have 100% recycled content made in your container, sure.
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:05.839
But there's some limitations, right?
00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:08.240
There's going to be costs that are tied to that.
00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.759
And what's the consumer willing to absorb for that?
00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:17.519
And and you have a group of consumers that are willing to pay a premium to have that.
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:26.560
And I think that demographic is is slowly growing, but I think a lot of it is just the industry catching up to it as well, right?
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:34.399
How that how can they be more efficient in the collection of recyclable materials and doing the recycling and cleaning it, getting it out?
00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:41.600
Um, over the years, I there's been more varieties of PCR available.
00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:47.600
Um, you know, you've got your your natural, your sorted, which is basically coming from milk jugs.
00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:50.000
Um, you know, that comes at a premium.
00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:58.560
But you've got your mixed color PCR now, which they'll take, you know, your Thai bottles, your other, you know, they'll blend it all together and you've got kind of a grayish tint to it.
00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.519
You've got a variety of different materials that are in there.
00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:07.920
Uh, so there's some processing challenges that will come with it, but for specific markets, that's gonna be okay.
00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:12.480
Um, you know, something that's in chemical cleaning or cat litter, great.
00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:14.480
Um, we could use those types of materials.
00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.519
You know, food grade product, probably not gonna want to do that.
00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.920
You're gonna want to use something more higher-end uh or a bio-based type of resin.
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:25.759
So I think everybody wants to get to that point.
00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:32.319
It's the scale and the cost associated and what brands are able to absorb it and which ones aren't.
00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.319
Before we continue, we'd like to thank you for listening.
00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:44.079
Each month you have a chance to win a $50 Amazon gift card and a Packet Locus Podcast Local Coffee Month of our podcast giveaway.
00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:47.040
During this episode, we've heard a designated keyword.
00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:50.160
This month's keyword is lightweight.
00:07:50.160 --> 00:08:00.000
You can submit that keyword on our website through the podcast giveway page mjspackaging.com slash podcast giveaway for a chance to win.
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.959
Let's select what else will enter at random at the end of the contest period.
00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:07.680
See the official rules on our website as well.
00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:09.759
Now let's get back to the conversation.
00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:22.879
So we we've heard you mentioned, and anyone listening to this podcast has probably heard PCR, bio-based resin, light weighting, and so on.
00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:32.240
When you're when you're laying in bed at night and you can't sleep, and you roll over and you tap your wife on the shoulder, say, hey honey, I want to talk to you about X.
00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:34.879
Which one of these do you want to talk about with her?
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.639
Well, and will she listen at that point of the night?
00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:46.720
I usually get the uh you're crazy, go to bed, you're driving me nuts.
00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:47.600
Fair.
00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:55.600
But as as far as the sustainable materials, I I think they they all have their own place, right?
00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:08.559
So again, the the PCR, and if I'm thinking of of polyethylene and specifically, you know, that's where we have all of our newer equipment that we've been purchasing for the last few years is is multi-layer, right?
00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:11.600
So we can do a mixed color PCR.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:21.360
The cost of it is much lower than going to a natural sorted um type of PCR, but it's got that gray color looking, right?
00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:25.600
So this way we can bury it in the middle layer, we can hide that to some degree.
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:30.960
It allows us to put 20, 30 percent of PCR into it.
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.559
Um, and you kind of hide that, but it keeps the cost somewhat reasonable.
00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:42.799
And that technology has allowed us to do that, and that's more in your, I'll say your home care cleaning uh markets and your industries, right?
00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:59.120
When you get into the food grade side of it, we've been pivoting more towards the bio-based resins, which you know comes in like a virgin pellet material, but that has been produced from, you know, instead of oils or gases, it's coming from like sugarcane, for example.
00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:03.200
So, you know, have some of the sustainability benefits tied to it.
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:06.159
Now, again, that's that comes at a premium.
00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:14.399
Um, you know, so it's all up to our customer of well, how how much can we add um you know where the price point still makes sense?
00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:16.320
That's good stuff.
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:17.039
Yeah.
00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:20.559
And and how does that reality check conversation go?
00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:23.200
Someone tells you, you know, I want to be fully sustainable.
00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.159
What what are you what are you kind of having to tell them?
00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:31.120
Yeah, I mean that's a great question because what does that really mean?
00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.919
You know, everybody has a different definition, right?
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:40.799
Is it I want my container to go into the garbage and it's gonna break down uh in the landfill in two weeks.
00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:43.519
Maybe for some people that's what they want to see.
00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:50.559
Uh again, I think fully sustainable, all of all of the plastic materials that we use, they're 100% recyclable.
00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:53.039
Um so that's important.
00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:57.679
And I think that's something that's been, you know, I'm in plastics, so I'm biased to it.
00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.879
And there's other materials out there, and they all have their benefits.
00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:04.240
Um, I think plastics get a bad rap sometimes.
00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:07.600
Um, and I think it's somewhat unfair, in my opinion.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:08.559
But sure.
00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:09.600
Yeah, I agree.
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.879
Without plastic, we would be uh living in a different world.
00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:14.559
Absolutely.
00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:16.000
Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:28.720
So if you could uh wave your magic wand and fast track one change across the entire packaging industry in regard to stain sustainability, what would you do?
00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:31.679
That's a good question.
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:39.759
You know, I I think it's I think it comes down to the understanding of it like big picture.
00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.120
Again, I talked about there's different materials that have different benefits.
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:44.879
You take glass, for example.
00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:49.440
I mean, glass seems to be the general population is like, oh, that's recyclable.
00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:55.039
We should we should use that again to produce a glass container is multiple.
00:11:55.039 --> 00:12:03.039
I mean, to the tune of eight, ten times more energy consumption to produce, it's very heavy to freight it to move it around.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:12.320
Like, so again, I think the perception of what all of this is, um, it's somewhat skewed in the general population at times.
00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:25.200
So if there was a way to have very clear information and the general population to really understand the benefits of of what this means, going back to fully sustainable, you know, let's think big picture here.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.000
Um, I mean, plastics is a phenomenal material.
00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:36.559
I mean, for delivering goods safely, um, you know, keeping them protected and you know, for the consumer when they open it up, that's that's really what it is.
00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:43.440
I mean, the packaging is a delivery vehicle for whatever that content is inside the consumers are are after.
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:45.759
Right, right, right, right.
00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:46.639
Great point.
00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:46.879
Great.
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.159
Now it is, it is.
00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:53.519
And are we ever going to get to the point where we can completely do away with any one material?
00:12:53.519 --> 00:13:00.080
I mean, I I mean certain types of plastics maybe, but you can't, I just don't see how that would be a thing, right?
00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:02.879
I I don't think so either.
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:09.519
And I think a lot of it comes down to the infrastructure to collect it and process it and recycle it, right?
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:19.759
I mean, I I'm in the industry, so I'm a little more like okay, I keep my stuff in the recycle bin and I do that, but there's a lot of people that they just throw the stuff in the trash.
00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:25.919
So it's gotta start from the consumer that really wants this or want that wants to talk about it.
00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:27.679
That you know it it's a big picture.
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:33.120
It's not a you know, it's not a plastics processor problem or anything like that.
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:36.480
It takes everybody's effort to do this.
00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:44.799
Do you do you uh and I do this, so full disclosure, do you get after your family for throwing the wrong things into the bin?
00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:45.600
Because I do.
00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:46.399
Oh, you bet.
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:47.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:48.480
Yeah.
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.639
I make my kids shovel the driveway.
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.159
Well, I mean, they do that anyway.
00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:54.320
They don't listen most of the time, but sure.
00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:54.639
Right.
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:56.559
Plastic in the garbage, you're out.
00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:59.120
You got laundry, you clean your toilet toilets this week.
00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:00.159
Absolutely.
00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:17.600
We've got uh uh a little makeshift dental chair in our basement that I send them down to and uh I perform um no no we don't do that, but it it is fascinating, and and even my young younger kids that aren't that young, they they struggle with what is and what is not recyclable.
00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:25.039
And then of course uh my in-laws who are uh significantly older, it's it's always interesting to look in their recycle bin when we visit.
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:26.399
That's that's good for a laugh.
00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:30.720
Um but they're well intended, and but that's the challenge, the consumer.
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:35.519
It starts with the consumer, and we need to understand what we can and cannot do.
00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:38.080
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.480
And there's a lot you can do to design for sustainability too.
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:48.159
Uh, I think in a lot of our products, the light weighting side of it, we've pushed those those limits, right?
00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:55.600
So now you've got to design, you know, radiuses and corners and things to help get the integrity of the package you still need.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:00.960
But it it does become challenging when it's such a thin wall package already.
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:01.519
Right.
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:02.000
Sure.
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:02.399
Yeah.
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:13.440
Yeah, we've all seen examples of of products that have gone too far the other way with the light weighting, and you're barely able to hold it without the product squeezing out or almost collapsing onto itself.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.600
So yeah, there's definitely a balance there.
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:16.399
There is.
00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.000
There is a sharing.
00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:22.960
Yes, yes, thanks.
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.039
We just invite some side.
00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:27.200
All right, we will thank you.
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.039
Thanks for listening to our MJS podcast.
00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:40.320
Apple Spotify for YouTube next month when we will be joined by another packaging expert.
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:45.440
And remember, packaging solutions are just a click away at MJspackaging.
