Overthinking "Send Help" and More!!

Crysda: hello and welcome to Overthinking It on Purpose. I am your host, Crysda and this is my co-host and sister, Kira. Hello! Are we ready to overthink some shit? Bring it. Okay, so today we're gonna talk about send help, which just released in twenty twenty six, I'm pretty sure it was in theaters. Yeah. writers, Damian Shannon and Mark Swift. Director is Sam Raimi. Notable actors, Rachel McAdams and Dylan O'Brien. I like Dylan O'Brien. I didn't like this movie, but I like Dylan O'Brien. summary, an overworked analyst and her arrogant Nepo baby boss survive a plane crash near Thailand and must cooperate. to survive on a remote jungle island while their workplace dynamic collapses around them. That like almost sounds like Sam Raimi wrote the summary. I hope he did. I hope so. what did you think about this movie? So, I actually hadn't heard much about it before. Like, you know, we briefly talked about it a while ago, like after you watched it for the first time. Right. And then it's like I turned it on and Sam Raimi showed up as the director on screen. I was like got it. I know exactly what I'm in for. Yeah. And it was Sam Raimi. Yeah. It was Sam Raimi at work. Yeah, like it's so funny that you know like so many directors in that like are so identifiable in ways of like you know what you see on screen. And the way Sam Raimi is identifiable is so weird. Yeah, I I feel like it I would have to watch on purpose a lot of his movies in a row to kind of get it. Yeah because I don't see it. Yeah. but I've I don't watch Sam Raimi. Right, yeah, no, it's like, yeah, no, like most of his stuff is not actually is not inherently up your alley. Yeah. but Evil Dead is Sam Raimi. and which I think I'll ha I was gonna look it up before we started because it was gonna be a point of whether or not he did Ash vs. the Evil Dead, which was the TV series of Evil Dead. they brought back the original actor, I think. Yeah, yeah, no, it's like Like, and Lucy Lawless is in it. I love Lucy Lawless. I know, right? That's that was part of it. Okay, so Sam Raimi was one of the creators of it. So yeah, like I've seen some of it, but but ultimately Evil Dead is not really my thing. and I know I know you've seen it and like didn't really like it, you know, for for for multiple reasons. Drag Me to Hell is Sam Raimi. I need to watch it again because I genuinely don't know why. I don't like it. I I think it was because there is some misogynistic shit going on. Yes, but it's also I remember when we were talking about it like a long time ago. Yeah. like when you watched it, there is the aspect that she was overweight and so she has like part of her falling apart because of the circumstances, like of the things progressing through the movie is like food based and stuff like that and so So dealing exactly. So like dealing with that kinda so I know that was something that didn't resonate with you, you know, understandably. I also don't like witches in horror because that one is like a a curse, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't like old ladies with curses. Yeah, like it was more like yeah. Which will come up on this one. Yeah, that's yeah, I guess that's that's a nice simple that's like It's a very simplistic way. Bare bones, that is what it is. Yeah. Because it's a cursed button or a cursed coin or something. Something like that. Yeah. yeah, it's a it was a button, but it was just hap it just happened to be what was nearby or something like that. And but and I know you haven't seen it, but I thought it was really funny that he did it. But the second Doctor Strange movie, in Multiverse of Madness was Sam Raimi. That is interesting. Why would he do that? Like and to be fair. Make some money, bro. Yeah, but that's totally fine. I do think, like, I've only seen it once because I don't like Doctor Strange. but it brought such a unique aspect to just Marvel at the time because it was being so blah. Yeah. Because it was, you know, it was post Avengers Endgame. Right. And they just haven't been able to find their feet after Endgame. Yeah. And understandably, because they set the bar too high, they're not gonna get back to the success of Endgame. No. But because it's so like Sam Raimi has like those unique aspects, that unique touch, just that ability. Absurdity, like that's the word that came to my mind a lot when I was watching Send Help is like and it is very absurd. And like as soon as I saw his name, I'm like, this is gonna be absurd. Yeah. And so, and that's what like that's the unique aspect that he brings to to his films, yeah. Absurdity. And and so in so many ways it kind of it kind of really adjusts how everything comes across. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, but Because it was Sam Raimi, It was very much like in a second that flip in my brain was switched. Like I know what to expect. Of what to expect from this movie. Yeah. And what to like and how things were received and like or and things that happened and like how it affected me and stuff like that. So yeah. Yeah, it this movie, first of all, the fact that this is in IMDB as a romance is one of the genres. Are you kidding me? Makes me genuinely mad. It's so not. It's not a it's not a romance. I think someone, whoever put that on there, was just like, it's a man and a woman stuck on a island somewhere. Actually it was written by somebody who didn't actually watch it. They gonna fork. Yeah. I also do think that in a lot of ways, this movie for me represents once again the shoddy ideal of turning very male behavior into a woman character. Yeah. Yes. Because if you did send help where DOB's character did all the things that Linda does. Yeah. you're like, this is super normal. Right. but it's the same thing as with obsession. When you attach normal and frequently abusive male behavior to a woman, it changes the story. Yeah. And frequently what happens is you're like, well, there's so many women baddies in horror that you're like, it must be more normal than we think it is. No, it's not. And so like, it ends up being reprehensible to me on the basis of misogyny. Yeah. I do remember at some points that I was thinking about Erin from "You're Next" Yeah. because she is also a survivalist. Yes. and and so it was like, you know, just so there's differences but ultimately like the the thing that they were l like grasping onto with Linda is that she was a survivalist. Like she you know, she she learned all these things and so that you know, like so that she's more comfortable away from society than in it. Yeah. and they kinda it's different being grown like growing up in a survivalist compound like Eren or like Eren's history is. Yeah. But it was like I was I did think that it really did, with that being the commonality between them, that it was executed better with Eren. I might just be biased because I think that Erin is the best final girl in horror history. Fight me. Yeah. I'm not going to. I'm sorry, Segourney Weaver, you are a very close second. Yeah, definitely. And I I love Segourney Weaver. She's awesome. And come on, is Sigourney in Aliens? You can't You can't find that. I mean I've only seen it a few times because again it's outside my wheelhouse frequently. except that I can't help but think of Galaxy Quest. They're they're minors, not minors. Like sitting in the theater and like, they're minors. Okay. genuinely ridiculous moment in the theaters. they were playing like a re like a Yeah, like playing old movies. Playing old movies in our theater. Yeah. And we went and saw it and I was just like, they're minors. Okay, sorry. I was thinking of the minor, like children minor, and I was very confused. but anyway, we're not gonna do the same thing we just did with Old Guard. for me Challenge accepted. Challenge accepted. Some of the things with Linda, first of all, once again, she has a matchy name. And I'm getting to a point where I'm like, I don't like matchy matchy names. No. it's kind of annoying. like alliteration with names is stupid. Yes. And honestly, if you have to do that to remember your character's name, then mm maybe be a better writer. I don't know. my first note is what kind of idiot thought that they should try to make Rachel McAdams ugly. I I will say I do think they did a decent job. And it's stupid. It's yeah, no, it was just like, I did I did think that. I think it was better than like, let's put a smudge on her cheek. So true. she's not pretty anymore. I do think that they actually did a decent job. like, you know, and it's you know, it's very much that this like any way they can portray that this is not where she's happy, where she's not happy with what she is, so she doesn't even care about her own appearance and stuff like that. I don't even see it that way because what I see is they're equating ugly with crazy. Except the fact that sh like they start beautying her up as she gets more crazy. I don't care. Like 'cause she doesn't beauty up. Like like she's barely changed. Like they do so much in the first like what 10 minutes of the movie to make her like this downtrodden 40 year old. Yeah. In bad clothes and she's got tuna fish on her face and That she was ugly. Cause he says that she's disgusting. Yes. And he says he's going to kick her out of the building because she's disgusting. I'm saying that she is portrayed to be this ugly, grotesque person to this douchebro Nepo baby. Yes. And Like that but the way that they do it is by making her have a beauty mark and she's got a tuna on her face and she's got glasses that are kind of ill fitted and crappy clothes and bad hair. Like they're doing what they did to Meryl Streep when she turned forty and said and gave her three witch castings all in a row. Yeah. Where we can't be pretty anymore. What they're doing is equating old and ugly with something that ends up being crazy. Yeah. Because she was crazy at the beginning. Like you just don't see it until she gets to the island. So to me, like you can't undo the beginning of the movie just because she looks better. No, like and the thing is is like I don't see her or like at the beginning, I don't see her as crazy. She's socially awkward. Right, then she is crazy. It's not crazy. It's actually like it because there is such an extreme difference in their situation in the situation, there is literally a before and an after, and it's not the same. It's not a s like it's not actually a through line of she was crazy before, so she's crazy after. Before she's just socially awkward. There is an extreme situation and it triggers and so there's the after that she does not handle it correctly. and so like like many people wouldn't and she's like or like it's like there's already kind of that gear towards that she feels more comfortable being able to show the things she can do it is a way that she ends up being successful and so like that's that's how it came to came across to me is like that that social awkwardness makes it like that before it's just social awkwardness everybody else around her like pretty much everybody else every Everybody else around her is shit, and that makes it worse. But but ultimately she's just socially awkward, and then there's the inciting incident, and it is such an extreme situation that there that it is literally a thing that has the potential to completely change somebody's personality, and that's like actually founded in psychology. I get that. But here's my issue: she crazy. Yes, she is. At the like yes. And I'm not even saying at the end, she refused to get help. She found the house early on in the movie. She saw the boat and declined help. Yeah. Like that is barely after the inciting incident. That was like two or three weeks in. Okay, yeah. But still that is like yeah, no, like To me, it still doesn't fit with like what human beings do. Like, especially what women do. For me, it really felt once again like forcing the crazy onto a woman character. 'Cause that's stupid to me. Like and sh obviously because of what she knows, she knows that they're gonna get out because she knows there's an easy way to get out. Yeah. But to me that is so fucking selfish and and like supremely gross and to layer that on top of a woman to me like I know that there are crazy women out there. But i to me it just it it sends the wrong message. That's to me, that's the point. And honestly, if Sam Raimi also did Drag Me to Hell, where there's also a lot of misogyny, like whether or not he's telling good, absurd stories doesn't undo the problem of misogyny in his work. No. And when you are saying with your work that We're two weeks away from fucking over another person's life? Well, like, I think honestly, like the thing or like how quickly I was okay with both of them dying was funny. I would have been fine with both of them dying. and but ultimate or like ultimately what makes it not as kind of one-sided as that is that Bradley is just as insane. I think he's just a normal dude. S and that like and that's insane. Yeah. I mean he's he he's also rich, so like yeah, that puts him like the so that's closer to the skill skill level significantly lower. Yeah. And so it just comes off as incompetent. Yeah. And so like he just because he's not good at it doesn't mean that he is any less crazy. Yeah. He's fucking insane. Yeah, it I don't know. like because they are such different people to start with yeah how the like how they fall apart because of the situation and honestly how quickly they would him because he's rich and he has to accept that she is the one keeping him alive yeah and he never does he never actually does accept that she's the one keeping him alive and so and that's fucking insane I mean he does say it more than once. I did like it doesn't matter what he says. Yeah. Because he lies. That's true. He's shown to lie the entire time. He never is honest. Yeah. He seems like he is because he's good at charming people. That's that is something that he's good at being rich. Sure, yeah. and so it is like but because their skill level to start is so unbalanced, yeah, it's Seems like there's an extremity there to the extremeness to that. I was like, is that the right word? I don't think it's the right word. Or I don't know if there's two definitions to that word or not. but like it makes it seem like and because of the absurdity to things, and so it's just like if it was played straight and not with the absurdity. then I think it would come across as a lot more believable, but ultimately it's a very realistic tracking of what these specific kind of people mm would end up as. I don't think it would be any different if they switched the genders. Yeah, I mean, I'm not arguing with that. I just I I'm not here to talk about anybody being a good person. I'm talking about the misogyny, like in the movie. And especially because like one of the things that she says later on that really made me nuts is she says that Bradley is a slave to his biology. Yeah. and I was like, you're listening to red pill bullshit I was just like this is so frustrating. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I I mean he'd say something like that. Maybe. He just because he's he's a misogynist and that's what they believe. Yeah. That it's that it's because of biology that women should be this and men are this. Yeah. So she's speaking his language. Yeah, or she believes She is like she is adapting to the situation as needed. That's what survivalists say. that's being a survivalist. Yeah, I don't know if I can like I don't know, maybe it's because I just don't appreciate Sam Raimi. he's not to me he's he's not I and part of it is like it's so frustrating to me because like I don't think absurdity should remove your responsibility to telling a story and how you tell that story. and I've seen too many women characters be characterized the way she's being characterized in the movie. Right. Across the genre. Yes. And I think it's frustrating to see like newer examples. To the point that we've had multiple episodes already and we just started right recording. Yeah, no, I think it is just that there was like it is like there's been a concentration of that kind of thing, so it feels a little bit more exacerbated than it actually is. Yeah, I I hated it and I'll never watch it again because it's just for me, it excuses his behavior because she's being crazy. I like That's the thing, I disagree with that because he's never shown as being correct. Yeah. Like he er like they start to br like that's what I like that's one thing is like they were starting to bring it like, he's turning things around. Then he tries to poison her so he can get out on a raft or like, you know, he starts to be nice or something and something happens, he does something and it flips it that he is not actually being genuine and actually worthy of being forgiven or redeemable. He there's never a point that I see anything that he does making him redeemable. I don't think people care about men being redeemable. They can like It's less about just whether or not whether or not it's a man or not. It's just like, you know, if you're watching, if you're watching and you're being entertained by something and there's something engaging about a character, you do want them to like look at how many people are like, Loki is redeemable. just cut or like you know, earlier on in the Marvel movies, it's because it's Tom Hiddleston and he's pretty. He's pretty and so they made him like so they s they flipped how they were approaching the character. Sure. Like they literally changed how they were approaching the Loki. Low key character because people liked him. Negan from fucking Walking Dead gets a whole bunch of like all he's all kid like he's all redeemable. No, he never is. No. And so like granted I'm not up to snuff on Megan, I or like on anything Walking Dead. I tapped out of that a long time ago. I tapped out when they killed my baby. And I tapped out like five episodes later. Yes. but like just the fact that he has a spin-off with Maggie that they're the main characters working together whatever the fuck you want to pull it that means that they're trying to make him redeemable he does reprehensible actions and so like it is wanting something for the wrong reasons yeah and so like just because it is Jeffrey D. Morgan, I believe is his name. like, and he like, you know, and he's somewhat attractive, I guess. I think that there's something just charming about him when he's acting. And so like and that's er and that's the thing is like Dylan O'Brien is an extremely charming person. Like he is an awesome, very down to earth person. and like I feel like But at the same time, Dan he played that good. totally. he did fantastic as Brad. They were both great. Yeah, no, they were absolutely amazing. like if you're gonna have two people as your cast that have to carry the movie, it's gonna be those two. Yeah. and I do think that like kind of like I think Dylan O'Brien is like a perfect match to Sam Raimi. so simply because he's he's all over the place. Like he is he is kind of like he has a history throughout like his entire film, like, you know the history of being an actor, like that does that can match that. And so you know, it's just like he can rein it in very well. but, you know, ultimately he was g you know, he was going out with this and like there's le levels of absurdity that we haven't seen from him in a while. Yeah. and like I would say like early styles is like kind of the last time we saw some of these things from him. but it's just like he's totally Totally believable as a shithead. yeah, totally. I've seen him in other movies as a shithead. Yeah, and like and I was trying to think of any if I'd actually seen any that he was that he's that kind of that kind of horrible person character. I don't think I have. He's only played in a a few things like I think the closest was American Assassin. and he's not the same kind of shithead. No, no, it's just like yeah, no, like he's just a very, very traumatized guy. guy. Yeah, definitely. That is letting out that trauma in a very unhealthy, murdery way. Bro just be killing everybody. Bro just be killing everybody. I'm trying to remember 'cause there's a very specific movie that I'm thinking of. deer deer deer. Not okay. There's a movie called Not Okay where this girl pretends to go to Paris and she didn't actually go to Paris. She pretended to go to Paris. Okay. And there was like a bombing in Paris during the time that she she was supposed to be there. And so she pretended that she had been there when it happened. Holy shit. It's a horrifying movie. It's a horrible movie. Like she's not a good person. It's wild. I wonder if that's like 'cause I saw like a review of a documentary. that's as close as I get to documentaries. but like there was a lady who claimed to be in one of the towers on nine eleven. Yeah. And like she built like a whole foundation around it. Yeah. And like just she's just like a my gosh, I hate when I lose the term. compulsive. There you go. Compulsive liar. I got it. I don't think I was gonna get there. Yeah, no, but it's like it's like they are compulsive liars. Yeah. They literally like the more you throw facts at them, the deeper they will dig into their lie. Yeah, definitely. so kinda thing. And so that's That's crazy. Anyway, he's a douchebag in that movie who fucks her just because he works with her. my god. be to to like kind of clout chase a little bit. Okay. And he doesn't like she doesn't even orgasm. It's like that bad of a scene. Like you know she didn't orgasm. He like came and went very f very quickly. Like she didn't even bother pretending. Like she was just like, and he didn't care. Like to be clear, he did not care. That's the closest he's come to like this kind of character. So I already knew he had it in him because I've seen him in that. But also he's Dylan O'Brien. Like we've seen him play the Nogitsune we've seen him we've seen him play American Assassin. American Assassin very much had a lot of like Negitsune feel to it. Yes. because of that, like it's almost like an alter ego where he but not really an alter, obviously. like he can hide the crazy. Yeah. But then like sometimes he can't hide the crazy and it's like right there on the surface. And so there are a lot of moments when I watched this, I was like, I knew Dylan had this in him. yeah, I knew like he's such a great actor that I'm not surprised at all that he had this in him. but like screaming after finding Zura's hand, like that scream. And I don't know. there is a part of me that's like annoyingly like pinning it back to yellow jackets. Where the girl broke the black box. yeah. And she was also socially awkward. Yeah. And she did it because she was a survivalist. My God. That's right. I haven't seen Yellow Jackets, so This is what I'm talking about though, is like when you start to make like connections and you see it more than one piece of media, Like it makes a disturbing chain. So even though that's not what they were trying to do. No, like and it's interesting because that it like you look at male survivalists, they're socially awkward. They just lock themselves away in a safe room and brandish their actual literal guns. At anybody We live in Alaska, of course they have guns. At anybody who comes to their door. Yeah. and so They all move to Alaska that's why. Or Florida. Or Florida. We have a lot of survivalists here. Like to be fair, like we actually have a good balance of people that are actually using substance and not survivalism. Subsistence? Subsistence. Subsistence. Gosh dang it. Wow. I am like Step off today Subsistence. So, like, at least we have that balance. there are places in this state, where it is actually required to put aside your summers to stock up on food for the winter. Yeah, definitely. And so that ain't happening in a Florida, the people the craziest go to Florida. They probably go there more. It's probably right. The truth is out there after all. You see exactly the same thing in the men when it comes to that kind of character of socially awkward survivalist. It's exactly the same. Yeah, maybe it's because like yellow jackets pissed me off so much. Yeah. Because it is grotesque what she does in that show. Yes. And to be to be fair, she does turn out to kind of be a psychopath. But I also don't like the idea of just because she's socially awkward, she's a psychopath. Like there's yeah there is a concerning like when our brains make certain connections. Media moves that along sometimes. No, like it is very much along the lines of like one of the reasons I can never get behind Joker. the movie Joker, not the character, even though Yeah, the the Walking Phoenix Joker. Okay, okay. genuinely needed clarification. I know, right? but like one of the reasons I cannot get behind that movie, regardless of Talent Made or Walking Phoenix is awesome, he is. But they multiple times in that movie they mention mental illness. They follow up mental illness with him hurting somebody or killing somebody. So what they are doing is they are literally saying he is taking these actions because of mental illness, not he's choosing the wrong option. Yeah. That I mean, to me that's and like I said, it's possible that because of yellow jackets and the way they handled that particular character really echoed into me watching this movie. I can see that. and being like, are you kidding me? Like again, especially when you layer that on top of a lot of female persons. perpetrators in horror movies, especially recently, and having it go kind of in a bad direction, like it probably affected me more than than I can really like deal with. And it is it is frustrating that it seems like the in thing right now is to have women be the antagonist. And like I don't mind a woman antagonist. Great. Let let women be antagonists. some of my favorite horror movies have women as the antagonist. Absolutely. Evidence is one of my all time favorite movies. Yes, we have to do evidence. What keeps you alive is one of my other favorite movies. I know you haven't seen it, but it's a female antagonist. Some of my all-time favorite horror movies have female antagonists. That's not my problem. The difference is the how they're portrayed in the writings. Yes, exactly. And I think that not only are we seeing like an uptick in like female antagonists and their victims are male, woe is me, poor men. That is a thing that I think is kind of like working towards its benefit. They're not killing nice guys. That's so true. Like that that's the thing, is like they're killing TMs. Like nice guys TM. Yeah. like, you know, like obsession was he is he is a nice guy TM. and but like, and then and Bradley is just Shithead. You want to die. Horrible. The best part about Bradley is that the person that's portraying him is Dylan O'Brien. Yeah, exactly. The only thing you like about him is the person playing him. And so, like, there is literally nothing redeemable about him. and it's one of those cases where like saying that okay, like let's at least make it entertaining. Sure. and I like you know, and I think in a way that kind of saves it, but if they're gonna keep on this trend, eventually what it's gonna happen is it's going to be like they're gonna get rid of the one thing that's kind of saving it, is that the man that's getting killed will be a genuinely good person. Yeah. And that's when they're going to be crossing line. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And and it's it's interesting because like I've heard a lot of other movies that are coming out or have come out, and you're like, Leviticus, the mother's a bitch, or this movie, and the woman is a bisexual woman, but she's the murderer, and or or this option, and you get to a point where you're like What is happening? Like and I don't think that they're writing good enough stories to even out this weird pattern of a lot of like the baddies being women. Yeah, like it feels like we're on the other side of the pendulum. Yeah, like and this is so all we're seeing is years scenes. We're seeing like years post me too. Yes. We're seeing like this this like the the poor man. Pandemic. that's not what it's called. That's what it should be called. That's what they're treating it as. the male loneliness epidemic. Like you just have to wonder if epidemic, sorry. I'm getting all the words wrong. I'm getting so many words wrong. It was only a matter of time. like if you're talking about a time frame where the manosphere is on the rise, red pill is on the rise. Who's making the decisions to make these movies? Yeah. Probably a lot of white men. Yes. Like that's probably and so they're like, the man's the victim. Let's make that one. the man's the victim. Let's make that one. And yes, we are being held together by this idea that this is a douchebag. We want this motherfucker to die. It kind of feels It's obvious that they don't know that. Yeah, no, like it does kind of feel like the that whether it's intentional or not, I would say it's intentional for Sam Raimi, not intentional for Obsession Guy. Sure. that because that's him. Not not impressed with Barker Yeah, not intense, not I'm not even gonna remember his name. No. It's like sadly like frozen in my brain now. But it kind of feels or like it seems like that's a way that they're like sniping back at these kind of stories being the ones that are getting attention right now. Sure. Yeah is by like doing something like that. Like, let's make the man reprehensible. Sure. Like I said, like not absolutely not on purpose on obsession's part Like because even the actor that played Bear didn't recognize until the movie was out and they were getting the response from it that he was not a good person. No, he genuinely was like He was like, I'm absolutely the victim. And and a lot of the problem with that is that like these guys do think that they're the victims. Yes. And and to me, like obviously that makes for an interesting storytelling position. Yes. But I I just think that if you're going to keep making the women the antagonist, then you need to stop being lazy fucks about it. Yeah. Yes. And to me, matching psychopathy, sociopathy, and like being the the survivalist who are or socially awkward, matching that Yeah. I think it's making a really dangerous precedent. that I hope we don't continue to see more of. Yeah, no, it's creating a pattern and unfortunately patterns are followed in Hollywood. Right, exactly. And they're going to just see that Send Help did very well. which I get. It's a funny movie if you're not like being battered down by misogyny. Yeah. I understand that there's a big reason why I don't enjoy certain things is because I'm like staring at this movie going, Why are they I also don't like equating Rachel McAdams with an ugly person. I also like as a person who has been called ugly more than my fair share in my life, literally because I'm fat, any time like a beautiful woman is portrayed as ugly, and then they get a glow up in the movie, that genuinely makes me mad. Yeah. Because it also sets a precedent that we are always beautiful. You're just not doing the work. To be beautiful. And so that's another aspect of it that I'm sure is really hitting like a a tender spot for me. Right. Because like I have tried to be skinny and guess what? it's not a perfect thing. Like I'm a person, this is my skin, that's all I have. I think it gets me from A to B. But I also think that it sets a precedent that is, again, very, very consistent in the manosphere, that women are inherently beautiful and all you have to do is take off your glasses, lose 20 pounds, put on some makeup and you're the cream of the crop. Whereas they have to do everything. And I just think that there are a lot of like So things like that like get to me and I know that they get to me. Yeah, and and that is something like and that is an aspect of like I the ending, like the last fifteen, twenty minutes, like didn't land with me. I actually did not like how most of it like played out. Sure. not specifically, you know, them fighting and stuff like that. that that final fight was pretty funny. I think out of I thought that final fight was pretty funny. Like I will give props. Like I do think that that went really well. That they actually handled it really well. They didn't I hated the boar, I hated the plane, I hated so much of the other shit in the movie. But that final fight between the two of them is honestly very funny. Yes very good. Just on the edge of slapstick. Yes. Very funny. But it's like just Just reined in just enough to not cross that like you know, they are actually doing legitimate damage to each other. Definitely. Believably. Yeah. And so it's like it is a time it's on accident. I know, right? but like it was one thing that I appreciated about it just like as soon as like he started chasing her, I'm like, please don't make her suddenly incompetent. Yeah, definitely. or something like that, or don't swing it in the other way that he'll never get a hit-in on her. Sure. Because it's like it doesn't matter how good you You are at something anything happens. Yeah. Anything can go. Yeah. and so like I thought that the fight between them was really well handled. I think I thought it was really well done. I thought it was very well done. And and so it's like, you know, she didn't suddenly become incompetent, she remained competent, but it's like, you know, the like where she struggled against him was believable. Yeah. like cause he it like size does matter. Yeah. He's bigger. He's I mean he is he is a slight man, but he's bigger than her. Like he's solid, he is probably pretty solid muscle. And like, and you know, like just because he's rich, it's one of those where like he maintains a physique. Yeah, like you see, he has a decent build to him, he has strength to him. Also, he was in a frat. That's right, yeah. Yeah. So those guys are definitely gym bros. Yeah. But yeah, no, like that just because they happen to go with the least athletic sport there is not mean that he's not athletic. But yeah, so that was like I did enjoy that aspect. I thought it was very believable. like what bothered me, was when they were in the house and the things that he said and that she responded to, like and that she was actually buying into it, like the yeah Yes, there was absolutely like anything that had been left of of not crazy was gone as soon as she killed the two people. Definitely, yeah. So which is believable. Like that does track. like killing somebody pushed her over a final line. Definitely, yeah. So, like honestly, if any confrontation between them had happened, like a true confrontation like that, before she had actually killed somebody, it would not have gone the same way. but it bothered me so much that that they did. I was like, I was so happy that, like, they're just relying on like he's relying on her and stuff like that, do as much as he can accept it. but ultimately, like the thing that she buys into and that he that he uses the manipulation to get her to drop her guard was I love you. I know. Was let's get together. Yeah. It's like, and I was like, my god, you just turn her like you now you went into cliche. Yeah. That because she's a woman, she's only happy if she's married and has kids. Yeah. That bothered me. And that's what she bought and was what changed her attitude about things. It echoes into the beginning of the movie that she's like this socially awkward. older woman who's kind of looked down on because of who she is that that that echoes there. So it's this stupid idea that if you're a woman and you're not married, that's what you're waiting for. Yeah, you're unhappy. You're unhappy. When it's like what's what's keeping you from like letting them rescue him and you just stay? Like that didn't track for me. That was the other weird thing about it for me is that She needed him to feel powerful. Yeah, no, that's how it felt felt and like it got a little convoluted and she did mention like about the companionship. We are social creatures, we do die without socialization. But don't kidnap your companions. Don't kidnap your companion. That's not gonna go well for you. Look, you can't kidnap. Your companions. I'm just gonna throw that out there. Like, I'm not advocating that either. Linda's like, this is the only way I can get a friend. I'll just kidnap this motherfucker. Like the worst dude that she's ever met. and that's the thing is like I would have been fine if they hadn't pushed it to like we're gonna fuck like this is about a sexual relationship. if he hadn't pushed it past that line or made like what she accepted that line that is just like we're just going to exist together. Yeah. And like hey there's different kinds of love and people like men and women can be friends and love each other that has nothing to do with sex. Keep it like that. That's another thing about the whole scenario. That's what gets me. Yeah, and in the end having her go back to civilization and use it as clout chasing is another thing that really like I like honestly, that was kind of the only way they could make it that I was happy with. I was Yeah. For me again, like Like 'cause you know, it was like she was already like she became the thing that she was trying to destroy in him. so there's this series on Hulu and we'll probably do podcasts on some of the videos, but maybe not all of them. It's called Into the Dark. and there is a movie in that series Called New Year New You. And it's about like four girlfriends, like high school friends. And one of them is like a really famous content creator. And before they like grew up, like when they were younger, the content creator girl, Bullied this other girl that they knew to a point that she committed suicide in the other girl's house. Jeez. And in the process, that girl got scarred on her face. once again, the weird, stupid shit that they make ugly women into in Hollywood is just so fucking stupid to me. Yep. So the girl with the scar puts together this crazy New Year's celebration where they're going to get the content creator who is very responsible for this girl dying and get her to admit on on tape. Okay. like on their phones that she's the reason this girl died. Okay. And the whole thing goes crazy and a lot of people die. And the girl with the scar, spoiler alert, the girl with the scar becomes the new content creator. Of course she does. So she became the other girl that she hated. Yeah. that's so dumb to me. And again if there's two spots on the line, there's probably three. Yeah. And it's it bugs me that like they become the person that they hated. The world was big enough. And it just it makes me super nuts. I exist in Hamilton. Yes. Yeah, I understand that like in a lot of ways send help has been greatly affected by yellow jackets or New Year, New You or these other things that are like these are making plots like on a on a graph. Yeah. And because there's more than one point on the graph, it starts to make a line. Right. And that line is leading to some really gross conclusions that are about women. Yeah. Like specifically women. And I think that if this is gonna continue, which it seems like it's going to Yeah no, it's like it fits I'm really worried about what that graph is gonna look like in a couple of years. Yeah, no, and I I do hope that the fact that we're seeing the balance out to that, like how many times backrooms keeps coming up is like in these is crazy. But it's like that we still have a really strong opposition with that of, you know, where the man is fucking insane and we see it and like we see that portrayed yeah very well. Like, you know, there's like same level of acting and production side to it. So the fact that we are seeing the other side to it, like hopefully that means that it doesn't end up like those few people that are approving the movies are seeing that, like, this is the way we have to go, woman crazy, man victim. Sure. and so like hopefully there's still enough balance that like, hey, and even if it comes down to misogyny, we'll take misogyny working in our favor of like we can't give women that much attention. Sure, yeah, it could bounce back. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So like there's that like subtle hope right there, like, hey, maybe for once misogyny will work for us and that'll be saves it from crossing that line. Yeah, and and where we're just happening to like have a Armageddon Deep Impact released in the same year kind of thing. I love Deep Impact. I love Armageddon and Deep Impact. Yeah, it's good stuff. It's good stuff. it's like that same thing of where or like or you know, like of of ants and A bug's life releasing in the same year. Yeah. I'm hoping it's just that happening again. Sure, yeah. We kind of haven't seen really seen that in a while. Yeah, definitely. especially because like with both obsession and send help, did so well. and they were both really well received. And so usually that's that that might just be bringing a little bit more attention to it. It's like and it has been while possible than since that's happened. Yeah, and and I do think that it's interesting that obviously they have some very different genre points to them. Yes. And so unlike the past they're not as much of a like did you steal this from the other person? Yeah. but yeah there are some very recognizable trope points but obviously send help is very absurd. It's a survival horror comedy, whereas obsession isn't trying to be funny. No. I think it's is funny at some points because like you feel awkward about it 'cause it feels very funny. Yeah, which is yeah, which is not funny. Yeah, it's just not funny. You just you just feel awkward about it. Yeah, no, yeah, no, it's a lot more intense. Yeah. So yeah, there's a good chance that that's happening. I do think honestly like I hope that's what's happening because that's the better outcome. Yeah. And and for me, I think that a lot of the other possibilities that people have been talking about on Jack and Dan's Discord, reaction channel on YouTube. Go check it out. I love them. we both love them. But they're talking about a bunch of movies that are coming out and there's just this really disconcerting trend. Yeah. And I do think that for a little while we were seeing kind of this world where we were like, Hey, let's reboot Charlie's Angels, even though there's some issues with that or let's make all the Ghostbusters ladies and Even though there are some issues with that. that's I've actually watched it, it is a horrible movie. Right, but like so here's the thing though. If you are taking like old ideas in like, hey, let's just gender bend the the characters and give women a more of a chance to have parity in movies because I think that's what was actually happening is we were getting more options for women to appear and like actually be the protagonist in movies in other genres like action and shit like that, which is very much a male genre. Well like Well they're all male genres. I haven't seen 'cause it's not really my genre, but like Oceans Eight. I haven't seen it but heard good things. I haven't watched any of the oceans. That's not yeah, I don't I can't stand heist movies. It's not my it's not my cup of tea. now you see me is the only heist movies I'll enjoy. but but like I've like what I've heard is that that was actually really well done and well received. Sure. Yeah. Example of flipping the cast to a female cast. Right. and hard to argue with that cast. Yeah, and that that that's but it's like that's the thing. These other examples have great castes as well. True. and so it's not the cast. Yeah. It comes down to like we were talking about it earlier, is that the motivation to do it is wrong. It's flawed. And so like with Oceans Eleven it kind of didn't come across like that. They're like, hey, this is still working out. We gotta do something to change things up or something like that or give other characters a shot. Sure. but then like especially with Ghostbusters, like the reasoning was flawed so it couldn't actually be good. Yeah, and I do think that on the other side of the coin is what we were talking about earlier is This might have been during the old guard. but we were talking about like how like the writing isn't up to snuff either. Right. and so a lot of these are like, well, they're women movies, so let's just like slap something on the page and like be done with it. And like I know that they're like I know that when it came out the new Charlie's Angels like didn't hit with a lot of people. I love it. I I loved it. But I'm also obsessed with Kristen Stewart. I really like her. I've like crush on her. it's a fun movie and I get why people don't like it and also Charlie's Angels does have like a pretty problematic yeah Charlie's angel like that's the thing that like the source material itself is too flawed. No yes definitely like I think ultimately Charlie's Angels the source material is too fucked up to actually make something out of like and I but I remember Like of course w like of course like sit with Ghostbusters, like saying like the lead up to it wa like was the normal it's not gonna work because it's all women, and stuff like that. And then after it was released and people were, you know, were watching it, they're like, It's just not funny. Yeah. Which is weird because these women are funny. There are funny. Like are genuinely funny. And so but they're just not like the humor is not theirs. Sure. And So it's not working. Yeah. And so it came down to the writing. It's not that it was women, it was the fucking writing. Yeah, and and here's my thing, especially in other genres, but we talked about it during the obsession episode, is that when you flatten out women characters, you're always going to struggle to actually write them well. And I do think because patriarchy and misogyny makes women into nothing that first of all without a lot of deconstruction men really do struggle to write women characters. Absolutely. I think even Women writers will struggle to write women characters. Absolutely. Without a lot of deconstruction themselves. Exactly. It it truly robs us of our personhood. And so when we look at fiction, it robs us even more And so when we watch these things, it's really hard not to be like is this it? Is this all we get? And the thing about it is, and we talked about this in one of the other episodes, that intersectionality and diversity, all of those things matter in our movies 'cause the world is not just straight white men. No. So when you have like all the genres and all they care about is straight white men, like who the fuck cares? We all live here too. Yeah. We all deserve to look at a movie and be like, I kinda look like that person. And every race, every culture, every person, every gender, we all deserve to see ourselves. Yeah. in the movies that we watch. But if you watch every movie that you sort of look like as a woman or as a minority and all you see is someone that could never be you. Yeah. It you end up kind of feeling like, well am I the wrong person in this? Like it ends up feeling like a weird thing inside. Especially if you've been dealing with it like your whole life. Like and that is the thing is like where you can even look Little Mermaid and like you know it's like well that's that's the only redhead that I can really look up to is the Little Mermaid. Sure. And it's like and I was like she's not really somebody to look up to. Don't look up Don't look up to Ariel. Don't don't do that. And don't really look up to any of the princesses honestly. but There's lot of problems there. So many. So, you know, but it's just like the animated still exists. We're not getting rid of her. She's still there. So like and guess what? How many black princesses have they had? Fucking one. Tiana. Okay, yeah. I was like, which one are we counting? And like in that Like and that kind of bothers me is that like and I haven't seen Princess and the Frog. but like she's not like dark. No. And that can make a difference to a little girl. so it's just like, so you still like you have checked off a box, but but you haven't checked it off enough. Yeah, and that's actually a huge thing in the black community from what I've understood. Yeah. Is that lighter black women will be seen as like closer to the white European beauty standards. Like the misog-noir is strong with a lot of people and it's something that we have to work a lot at to not do that shit. so yeah I I would agree that that is another aspect of it that Colorism is a huge issue in the community. And obviously we see it outside of the black community because we're a part of upholding the racist system that affects them, that makes them look at themselves and says, I'm too dark, or I'm not light enough to be perceived as this princess And that's something that obviously these movies aren't gonna talk about because well, these movies in particular are Disney films. even if it did, I wouldn't trust Disney to do it. No, exactly. And and I was gonna say that like there are a lot of Disney stories that are from European fairy tales and stuff. So there's there's a reason for that. But but yeah, like they're also fictional fairy tales. So you can't make me care about changing someone from a white person to a black person. If we can watch Hamilton and get over it, then we can watch Little Mermaid be black. Like, I think we'll be okay. And it doesn't take anything from us as as white people. So, it's about representation. And, for me, like, I remember when Dumplin came out. I don't know if you ever watched it it's on Netflix, but it's about a an overweight woman who ends up in a beauty contest. and she is really dealing with like the feelings of being overweight and what it's like to be in a beauty contest because her mother is played by Jennifer Aniston. okay. And so she's always involved and her poor daughter is an overweight right young woman. Yeah. And so she gets involved with the beauty contest and obviously ends up losing. Of course. I think she actually ends up disqualified for what whatever reason because you have to anyway, it doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things, it does not matter. When I saw her in that movie, I remember feeling for the first time that someone was telling a bit of my story because she was an overweight young woman. Right. And there's this part in the movie where she's dating this pretty attractive guy. And so and I've dated pretty attractive guy, like one, maybe. I don't date much, so this is a pretty small list. And I am not the person to ask. I don't know what makes people attractive or not. And there's this part in the movie where he touches her back and she like flinches away. Because she's worried what he will think or what he feels there. Right. Because it's just fat. Yeah, fat. It's fat. And it's disconcerting. It's it's like a it's an uncomfortable feeling. I don't feel acceptable in my own body. And so there were moments in that film where I suddenly felt seen and felt connected to a character in a movie. That I had lived my whole life not really feeling. Yeah. And so like you will never make me give a flying fuck about any people trying to make representation and diversity in casting more of an important thing in the world and in Hollywood. Yeah. so I know this is like not really about send help, which is fine. it's apparently that kind of day. Of recording. but yeah, like we were saying before, like I worry about the points on the graph. That's what I'm worried about. Yeah, no, yeah, that and that's is very valid. Like I think it might have been something that I'd picked up better if I'd actually watched any of the other things that you have No, it's totally fair. The closest has been obsession. Yeah. But because the approach to them is so different. And so it's like there was so much I didn't like about obsession. Yeah. and I didn't get that response in send help simply because of the approach. Right. but it's like so many of the ones honestly other than obsession, like the ones that you you've mentioned I haven't watched so I don't have that awareness of how often it's being seen in other things. Yeah. So and it it's I'm so behind on stuff. I am so behind on watching stuff. And I do know that like deconstructing from misogyny and being male centered has made me incredibly aware and really doing I've done so much research and about feminism and about being woman-centered and about how heterosexual relationships play out and how it plays out between men and women in the world. And like that that's been my last what six years? Yeah. Plus. Easily. Yeah. at this point, it's still not as long as it took for me to complete my bachelor's degree, but it is still an education. but yeah, like I do watch more movies. where you play a lot of games. So we play catch up with each other when it comes to media. and it is something that I've mentioned that I do stay aware of, and kind of like the differences in how we approach the topics. Yeah. because like of course, feminism is very important to me, but ultimately I am a humanist before I am a feminist. And so, like it is a slightly different enough approach, that it does mean that I don't perceive things, like I don't see gender first. Yeah. it takes me longer to attribute certain traits to a gender rather than the individual. Yeah. and so it is something that I'm kind of working on that that you know it's like I definitely don't need to give people that much benefit of the doubt because like on average they don't deserve it. But true. Yeah, and so like it is an adjustment that I am making is like and and that why I do value how much work you've put into these topics, and so like they they do really matter and and help me see things in a different way. I also think that so like because it's like on a like as like yes, humanism is like, you know, and that is equal treatment for absolutely everybody, no matter what. Yeah. and like where the final result. Yes. That's what we want. Exactly. And so like I know we've mentioned like I know I've we've talked about this before, where if we're where like the way to humanism is through feminism because we need the other side of the pendulum first. and then we can balance out. Well, it's also because women as a group are more likely to be the most human group of people. Yeah they mean yes how it's been the socialization that like it's how they've been socialized to be accepted. Right, exactly. So I've heard Public Offender, who's one of my favorite content creators online, he talks about this that he believes and I don't disagree with him, he believes that the way that women are allowed to behave and allowed to be socialized is closer to what humans are supposed to be like than the way that men are socialized. Men are men have their empathy ripped away from them. And so they cannot be in charge for us to get to humanism. For us to get to humanism, we have to put in control the people with empathy. Right. Like We're allowed to be empathetic because we're the nurturers and the mothers and And to be fair, like I want to be a mother. I do believe stereotypes. Exactly. Like, I believe that every person is capable of being nurturing. And there are a lot of people who are less capable of being nurturing, including women or femme presenting people. Absolutely. not every woman is meant to be a mom. Yeah. And I actually I was gonna mention this because I think in some ways because of who you are and because of the way that you present to the world, you've kind of like skipped over a lot of gender dynamics. 'cause you're just living in your own skin and I do attribute so much of it is like that because I'm Aro / Ace and I genuinely haven't had to put in time and 'cause I don't care. Right. like I don't have to think about how I am perceived by other people. Right. In like in a way of like, I need to be in a relationship or something like that. And so like I do have to be attractive to somebody. Right. like they do have to find me attractive at some level. Damn it. And so like, but because that's not something like that's not like and I'm not saying I never did. Like I stumbled into asexuality is a thing. Right. So late. Yeah. I wanna all say like I think maybe mid twenties was when I was like I didn't know a word for it yet, but I was very much okay, I'm just never gonna get in a relationship. and I don't care. Right. like for the most part, I don't feel like I'm missing out. like I will every once in a while get hit with that like, my god, like it probably feels really good to have that kind of support by having that kind of relationship. Sure. but it wouldn't be genuine for me. Right. I We'd just be friends. Yeah. Like I just want more friends. I just want more friends. Apparently, like that's ultimately what it comes down to. I could use a few more friends. I could use some friends. And so Kira needs some friends, y'all. Thank you. I know we said in a previous episode, we do talk to other people. Not very much, but we do talk to other Not very many, but other people do exist in our lives. but like there is an aspect like and that's more the aromantic aspect of it because like asexual has nothing to do with whether or not you have relationships. but because I am Aro / ace, it's just not something that really enters my mind. It is like, okay, am I dressed socially acceptably? will I freeze or burn to death if I am not covered more? Yeah, and it's for me it was an interesting thing growing up together just because yes, I do experience asexuality and sex repulsion, but I desperately do hope for a relationship. Yeah. and being bisexual doesn't mean that you have more options. No. Unlike what the stereotype the stereotype says. and this isn't like a woe is me single for life kind of thing. I've really truly come to terms with it. And it's something that Again, it's something that I would love to see more representation about. there's this amazing movie called Together Together, which I would love to watch at some point and see what you think about it, where this single man, decides to have a baby and so he hires a surrogate and he is friendly with the surrogate the whole time. Like the whole time she's pregnant. Right. But she will not touch the baby after it's born. Right. They will go straight to like solid surrogate lines. Solid surrogate lines. And they have a relationship. And thankfully it never goes romantic. It stays friendship. There are moments where it kind of like ekes into that. but it did feel very validating to see someone in a movie trying to be a single parent by choice and watching that struggle and watching that experience from from a different perspective from my own. but it and I was like of course it's a man. Why can they You know, they did the backup plan back in the day. I was trying to think of the title. I was like, I know it's a Jennifer Lopez movie, but that was all I got. But it's like I I was gonna say, like, I kind of don't want to go that way because I know it was a rom-com. And she was pregnant and immediately started dating Exactly. Like that's the only time I've ever seen a single mom by choice, and they immediately paired her off with another fucking person. But they didn't do that to the man. Okay. So the man is allowed to be a single parent by choice. But because of the rom com standards, it's a funny story to have sex for the first time and she finds out that she's pregnant from in vitro. Yep. or it possibly UI. I'm not a thousand percent sure because I'm so frustrated with that movie that I've never watched it again. I've never watched it. Yeah. I mean, to me it it is deeply frustrating. as a person who chooses to walk this journey myself. and again, I've I've barely seen single moms by choice in media. And I think it's another thing that should be normalized. I think it should be more normalized to have platonic partners. to have healthy poly relationships. There's a lot of things that that we should be normalizing in our media. And I think the sad truth of it is that we're seeing, like you said, like the pendulum swing I do think there is also a factor of like and we talk about this about so many subjects, because it's applicable to so many subjects, it's the death throws. Definitely, yeah. And so like it is like and that does kinda go hand in hand with the pendulum swing, is that like just before something really dies out in popularity, it has its strongest wave, and then it's gone because like then it kills itself because of that last surge. Yeah. And because it's already so wildly unpopular, like flooding the market with it is not going to improve its popularity. Yeah. It's just going to call attention to its flaws and more people are going to be loud against it and it dies. Yeah. or like you know, it goes on life support to never come off of it. Yeah, definitely. So like it's kinda like that's what we're seeing right now. Yeah, and like it's hard to argue with that and it'll depend on what we continue to see. I do think that Hollywood has to continue existing because it's another distraction and honestly we do pour a lot of our money into entertainment. So it's never gonna go away. But with the rise of fascism It'll be interesting to see how that changes things. Right. And obviously we'll have to keep fighting the good fight And I do think that there is a lot of hope when it comes to a lot of the backlash that obsession got. Yeah. Because of people's reactions to obsession. Yeah, like people are seeing the characters for who they are. Yeah. Like they're not being duped. Right. Yeah, I do think that that's important. That's so important. So Ultimately he is one person and he may get another movie or two. He may consistently get movies for the foreseeable future, but he's not going to be the only voice. Right. And especially when you're talking about subjects like this, and he's digging in on some very problematic topics. Yeah. And being on the wrong side. Yeah, and I do think that that's an interesting thing, obviously, from that review, but also this one, because I do think that in a lot of ways, the way I feel about send help and the way I feel about obsession is probably a hot take mostly because I don't see obsession the same way a lot of people who have been like glazing that man see it. mostly because he clearly didn't unpack any of his misogyny. And I I think at some point if you're not gonna unpack your misogyny, I'm not that interested in what you have to say. No. because if you're adding to the problems, then I don't care. No. You're just adding to the problem. You're just adding to the problem. And so with this one, I will try to see it in a slightly different fashion or or at least recognize that there are very specific things about send help that are hitting some very specific issues that I have because of other things that I've seen. and obviously he is a director. Here. He's not the writer. Yeah, he's not one of the writers. yeah, no, like that is a good point that I am kind of overlooking a little bit, I think he was also producer, but he wasn't one of the writers. And so like I don't know anything else that those writers have done. Yeah. but I don't know how much Rachel McAdams and Dylan O'Brien are like improvers on set. I know that Raimi is very good about letting his cast improv. I mean, look at his filmography just like Bruce Campbell alone. Yeah, definitely. and let that man breathe. Yeah, yes. but but yeah, so just like that is why I am like giving him a little bit more leeway and that maybe this is a way of him fighting back against something that he recognizes as dangerous because he has a history of at least having an awareness sure he's not perfect. like he's he's got his own shit like things that you've brought up like misogyny and along those lines things that ends up not coming across well because he does have his flaws and he is ultimately a straight white man. but like he's not blind. Right. Yeah. Yeah like that I absolutely accuse obsessions creator with yeah and it is a good reminder that just because you're the director doesn't mean that you're the writer. Right. We have talked about a lot of things where the writer, director are the same person. So obviously that is an important distinction. like a very popular example of where just the writing deviates so much from the final product because it was interpretation of the director, Alien Resurrection. Mm-hmm. and where I believe it was Joss Whedon wrote it. and the director didn't even speak English. my I like I could be wrong. Yeah. So I I think that's the case. Like I do know it was Alien Resurrection, but like that's why it was so bad. Yeah. Was because the like how it was written. and Joss Whedon has a very unique style of writing as well. but like part of the reason it came across so poorly was because somebody didn't understand the writing. That sounds a lot like a recipe for failure. Exactly. To me. And it did fail. Yeah. Resurrection is considered one of the worst alien movies ever. Yeah. and so it kind of makes me think about that, but maybe in the opposite direction. Yeah. Where if it wasn't Sam Raimi, like bringing it to the levels that he did, that maybe if it was played more straight like Obsession, sure. a lot of the things that you're seeing would genuinely be presented in a more problematic way. It's actually an aspect, and I wanna say this before I forget, where I jump onto comedy and satire really hardcore because I will say that punching down on women in comedy and satire is so frequent. and people think because it's comedy that we shouldn't overthink about it. because it's comedy and it's Sam Raimi and it's supposed to be over the top. There is a difference between comedy and absurdity. Right, yeah. And no, you're right. Because it's not even that he rides that line like it's part of what makes his work so recognizable is that like sure some of it is funny, but it's like you can tell like when he's trying to be funny and when it is like just where he's trying to punch a point home right and make it more easy to accept sure because it's absurd right and so like your brain can like process and accept something that you perceive as absurd when it is a difficult topic. Right. Like the more difficult the topic is the more absurd you make it, the easier it is to accept. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's definitely an aspect where I do think that it comes from watching sitcoms. we didn't grow up as heavily on sitcoms as a lot of people. but like we watched a lot more sitcoms as we got older. we watched Big Bang Theory. I watched Friends at some point, And there's New Girl, and like I've I've watched other sitcoms. Modern Family is another good example. So there is a part of me that Is deeply concerned by comedy. Yeah. Because so often comedy is used to get away with something. Get away with something. And what is the first thing that men say usually when they say a shitty thing to a woman and she responds badly? it was just a joke. There you go. And I just think that in a lot of ways sitcoms and comedy. in a lot of ways echoes that thought process. Yes. So for me to call out this stuff in an absurd movie, I know that a lot of people are gonna be like, you're just thinking about this way too much, which is why this podcast is called Overthinking It on Purpose. we's gonna do it. We're gonna do it. So I I think for me, like there there's that aspect as well. When I watch a comedy, If it's echoing some of those nasty traits, I immediately stop thinking it's funny. Yep. Like it is so funny to me because I will still laugh at ready or not. Yeah. Because ready or not is funny. And it's not the same. Like there's not a lot of punching down on women. do I think that there's some weird shit in Ready or Not? Yes, of course. We talked about it. We had a whole episode on it. But like it's not punching down on women. In fact, we see Samara as Grace as an incredible final girl. She's an amazing final girl. So like when you're you're watching like something in the horror genre, but comedy gets added to it, yeah. I worry. I I immediately stop thinking something is funny. Like I lose my funny bone, it just gets like lost in the mail. I except for that final fight scene which made me laugh. 'Cause it's just so crazy. It was just well done. But every other aspect of the movie, I was just like, this shit ain't funny to me. And I know that that's a part of deconstruction. it has caused me to dislike things. Absolutely. that I know that other people are like not thinking that heavily about. And and I know that. Like that's why there's so many movies that we grew up on and that it's just like I'm terrified of on some level of going back and watching them. Definitely. because it's like I want them to still be a good memory. but at the same time I want to be honest and I want to appreciate things that should be appreciated. Definitely. Yeah. And so I don't want to give credit where it's not due. Yeah and there are trends in Hollywood. Obviously there are trends in everything. I think that it's important to call out, like, is this just funny or interesting because it's a part of the trend? Or is it actually good? Yeah, exactly. And that's why I was so hardcore about obsession because the hype is real high on this one. And I was just like, I should have guessed. Like every time somebody hyped up something and then I watch it, I'm like, Should have guessed wasn't gonna go my way. like I do know that part of the reason why I don't tend to enjoy things for the same reason the majority does, is because I'm inherently watching movies for something very different than most people are. I'm usually not going for escapism. I actually am watching a movie and trying to figure out like the psychology and sociology of the characters in the environment. Yeah. And so like that's why psychological thrillers is my favorite subgenre of horror. and so like for the most part I am not watching something to check out right and to not think about it and so just like that's just what I like looking at in movies. I like looking and trying to understand other people's perspective. That means overthinking it. Right. I can see how pre-deconstruction this movie would have just been funny to me, I'm sure. Yeah. there are still things about it that that like maybe that Sam Raimi himself does, but like movies like this do. I can't guarantee it's just Sam Raimi. yeah, absolutely. but like kicking out the guy's teeth on the airplane and the way the boar died. Like those kinds of scenes to me Like those were just so over the top. They're just so over the top that I'm like, and then you're wasting my time. Yeah, that was this like my god. God, you're about you're losing me right now. You're losing me in the first couple of minutes. I went in expecting to like you know, expecting that kind of stuff. Yeah. And I was still like, you've lost me. Yeah. Yeah. You're starting to lose me. You start to lose me. You better direct. You gotta do It had nothing to do with what was like what the the actions of when they were doing. Yeah. But it's just like it was just stupid. It was stupid and pointless. and so it's just like, nope, you're losing me. Yeah. You better change direction. Yeah, definitely. And there are aspects like that where I watch something and I'm like, this just isn't in my wheelhouse. Got it. Got it. That's okay. That's fine. and then I watch other things that I'm just like, this is really interesting conversation starter. Or this is a really interesting to thing to compare to this other thing. And like I know that for us, like obviously our foundational media is different in some ways. Right. Sometimes just because I am mostly in movies and T V shows and You spend most of your time in games. Is that a fair thing to say? if it's not, that's fine. I would say that I have as much investment of time in games as movies and shows. Okay, perfect. But are movies and shows taking up the same space together, do you think? no, I don't tr treat T V and movies as the same thing. Okay, cool. Because I just wondered. Yeah, no, like there or like there is too much inherently different about the format. So true. that like they cannot be treated the same. No. Yes, they are similar. Like just like how games are similar to movies and T V shows in that they are primarily a visual entertainment venue. Mm-hmm. but they are but like too many aspects that are foundational to their storytelling is too different to be considered the same or interchangeable. Yeah. Same thing between movies and TV shows. Mostly I was coming down on time. Time. Time. That was the biggest thing. That was absolutely where I was going with, but like you have time, like the time difference inherently means that you change the entire format of how you present information. Yeah, definitely. yeah, it was just curious. about that. just because I know that you do spend a lot of time gaming, so I was just wondering what you thought. but because if you're looking at each media, movies take the least amount of time. Right. Usually. Yep. but still even with epics We'll give it four hours 'cause there are a few that are four hours. Sure. And then T V shows are everything from three episodes to twenty two episodes, depending on when it came out, what kind of format it is, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. So And then obviously gameplay is very different. you're dealing with a lot of other things and you dedicate a lot more time. Yep. So that was the biggest thing is like wondering like time. Yep. 'Cause like any time you're gaming, I'm usually watching something. So I I do dedicate like a shit ton of my time outside of when we're playing games together. I dedicate a lot of my time to like watching media and I do love a good shut your brain off kind of movie. But I will usually watch a shut your brain off kind of movie and then turn on my brain. Yeah and be like You can't help it. Can't help it. And that's just how you take in media. 'cause I do think that there's value in being able to shut off your brain. yeah. and watch something. there's a lot of times when I will shut off my brain and just enjoy something like the first time through. Yeah. And then the second or third. Third or however many later, I'ma just dig in deep and be like, okay, so I'm like, I'm like that crazy guy with the red string meme when I'm watching movies. So once again, we barely talked about Send Help. No, I'm kidding. we did pretty good. I think we did pretty good. So yeah, no. Seriously, I hope you guys listened to the old guard one because we didn't talk about old guard almost at all. And we do love that movie. I did not diagnose, but there were some things happening today. Pretty sure there's things going on. but I really appreciate you guys listening. thank you for making it to the end. as you guys know, this is a great conversation starter. we'd love for you to continue it with your friends or maybe in the comments. we're gonna be on Apple and Spotify to start with, and more to come later. and please share something with us to overthink about. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye.