Chris Frasco: Why would you want a computer mastering your work rather than a real human being listening to The art that you've created and saying, how can I deliver the most emotional impact? going to Berkeley is you come out of school with a couch to sleep on in every major city across the world. probably ninety-five percent of those ended up straight in the trash. then a few
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: weeks later, it was the number one most added song across America. all of a sudden you get you get in a cab and you're like, that's me singing. mastering is math. It's How are we going to tweak this so that it's sounds absolutely perfect on everything from a $100,000 sound system to a shitty little speaker? I've definitely swung my guitar at people trying to rob me. I had a manager who got addicted to crack and stole my life savings.
Kristen Ford: that's a shitload of rejection. You have to be a little
Chris Frasco: That's the art.
Kristen Ford: unhinged, and then you're like, This was so successful. Welcome back to Oberman Amplified, the podcast where we talk about music, mindset, the business, and so, so much more. We're removing gatekeepers. We're making everybody leave with a smile. And we're so glad you're here. Make sure that you hit like, subscribe, and drop a comment so that Oberman Amplified, the channel on YouTube and all podcasting platforms can grow. my name is Kristen Ford, I'm your host, and joining me today is Chris Frasco. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.
Chris Frasco: Hey, what's up?
Kristen Ford: so good to have you on. so Chris Frasco is a singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer, mix, and mastering engineer, Western Massachusetts raised, New York City teeth cut, and currently based in Nashville, Tennessee. He has worked in music for decades. His song Anchor hit the adult contemporary radio tracking top one hundred. He has studied the Bobcats mastering audio, the science of physics, and the physics of sound. he has worked on. Such amazing projects as O'Shea, The Famine and the Feast, released on Sony Music, Kevin Keller, Lestrada, Two Cow Garage, Brand New Flag on Last Chance Records, John Latham, Lifers on Cafe Rooster Records. Micah Schnabel, The Teenage Years of the Twenty First Century, Brian Wright and the Sneak Ups, Howling Giant. Elon Musk as your wanderer taps at the invisible gate on worst basis records. Painted Canyon, Permanent Reflection. Whitey Morgan and the 78ths live at Bandit Town USA. Yellow Bird on Flower Records. Howling Giant on Not a Label. Maybe that's not their maybe they're just like Howling Giant. the hit the lights.
Chris Frasco: They're on they're on Belize Funeral nowadays.
Kristen Ford: Okay, Blues Funeral. I love it. Howling Giant, Black Hole Space Wizard, part one and part two, on the compilation Whale Lord from Stonerbox, Cleopatra, and Afton Wolf's 23, among many others, like including maybe at least one or two of my own songs. And Chris has received airplay on Lightning 100. He has held his own in writers' rounds, even with the most prestigious and pretentious natural songwriters. His mastering studio is the result of two years of construction and research and development on the Master Frasco Audio Labs. His gear list includes some of the wonderful and expensive pieces of equipment, such as we got Genilex Studio Monitors, the Reveal Ultimaz Salon 2, which looks like it could fly a spaceship to the next galaxy. Several compressors like the API 5500, the API 2500, a multi-channel manly massive passive, the Manly Very MU, which Manly I think is made from Australia, right? It's like very well crafted stuff.
Chris Frasco: No, Chino, California.
Kristen Ford: okay. I stand corrected. Cali, baby, just like me. And he includes digital processing from waves, box and go, and PSP, among many other pieces of beautiful gear. as the host of Tight Five Tuesdays at the Five Spot, which is a Nashville-based music venue, where amazing artists such as Lady Gaga, Garrett Tallent, who's in the Bruce Springsteen band, Audrey Freed, Aaron Lee Tazjan, John Prine, Lucinda Williams, Nora Jones, Guthrie Trapp, Lowe's Straitjackets, among many more, has played at the Five Spot every week. booking, promoting, and hosting with this house band 130 shows, including During one Americana Fest performance where I played and it landed me at least one high-paying festival performance, which I hope you don't want a commission because I already spent the money. His songs, Donaldson Motel and the latest single Get Me Out, showcases Signature Sound, A Diamond in the Rough, Worn Leather in the Rhinestones, a Renaissance Man and true music lover dedicated to the craft of shaping sound through mastering, engineering, and just being a champion of the scene in so many wonderful ways. Welcome to the podcast, Chris Frasco.
Chris Frasco: Wow, Kristen, that's that was really, really nice. I jeez. I I'm so glad to be here. I've I've been such a fan of yours for so long and like I love that you're doing this. This is fantastic. Like yeah, and I'm I didn't know that you landed a high paying festival gig from type five. That's amazing.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, this band's manager was
Chris Frasco: I'm good. I'm glad that you helped.
Kristen Ford: watching was watching them play and then was later gonna finish up booking for the festival and you know it's weird the more you chase these things, the more they evade and the more you almost forget about it. Sometimes things just fall into your lap. we're both from Massachusetts and you're from West Springfield, right? Are you born there? Okay.
Chris Frasco: It's true. I was born in West Springfield, yeah.
Kristen Ford: Cool. And you know, if if you don't know, Springfield's kind of a shithole to everybody out there at home. Western Mass is just there's all the money in Boston and then there's I feel like the rest of Massachusetts where it's a lot of like blue-collar, white-collar people, or the milling industry like isn't really manufacturing's not really happening like it used to be. They did invent basketball in Springfield, but coming up in Western Mass, what influence did that have on your approach to music, the music you were listening to? And did did you always imagine that you would leave? Cause I personally grew up in Greenfield Mass. I was like, I'm getting the fuck out of here the second I'm done with high school. Bye.
Chris Frasco: That was that was my exact train of thought as well. It's funny, I think my my my perspective on Western Mass has changed in the last like I think I've been away from it for so long that I can go back and now it's pretty. Like I understand why it's pretty, I understand why people want to live there. But growing up, I I really I had such a resentment towards it. And I think it's because the arts aren't really encouraged. You know, they kind of
Kristen Ford: Interesting.
Chris Frasco: especially my sister went to a performing arts high school, I think possibly with you.
Kristen Ford: P V P A. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah. She went there too. So she got a little bit more of that. Whereas I I just went to West Side High School where it was like, All right, put your guitar down and pick up a hockey stick like a real man. And it Yeah.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Go Bruins.
Chris Frasco: Exactly. And I had just had nothing, nothing but resentment for so long. And I don't know, I'm forty-two years old now. So when when I go back, I feel like I'm so disconnected from the beginning of that resentment that I can now look at Western Mass and just say, Wow, it's it's green here. It's it's it's nice. And I also don't
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: have to live there. I'm visiting for like three days, four days at most. So it's a different vibe.
Kristen Ford: Okay. Yeah, I mean
Chris Frasco: I'm
Kristen Ford: it's always good to fantasize about going back.
Chris Frasco: yeah, yeah. I would never move back. Never move back, but it's nice to visit family and everything.
Kristen Ford: Totally. So what brought you to move to Brooklyn, Bed Stuy? And that's where you made this this debut record of yours that I'd love to chat about. That process of just like
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: landing in New York, was it overwhelming? Were you in school or anything or just working at a restaurant?
Chris Frasco: I had just I had just finished school, I just finished college and it's funny, I I was a very lucky Boston musician, in some ways. I was a very lucky Boston
Kristen Ford: Did you go to Berkeley?
Chris Frasco: yes, I did.
Kristen Ford: Okay. No big deal. You don't even put it in your bio.
Chris Frasco: No. I mean again I we're talking twenty twenty four years ago I started Berkeley. It's not relevant anymore.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, but Berkeley
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: is a very competitive school to get into and it's world renowned as one of the greatest music schools anywhere.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean it was an amazing experience. the the greatest advantage to going to Berkeley is you come out of school with a couch to sleep on in every major city across the world. I think that's the number one thing
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: you get from Berkeley. Is once we all leave school, you know, everyone, you know, just explodes out into wherever they want to be. And all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I have a friend in Valencia. I have a friend in Rome. I have a friend right now, I have a friend who just moved to Sardinia. Like that's what you want. That's what you want is a couch to sleep on.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Well and
Chris Frasco: You know?
Kristen Ford: like yeah, but also like were you studying engineering there or guitar, songwriting?
Chris Frasco: I was actually I was an arranging major. So like I feel like
Kristen Ford: That's just funny. It just shows how much life has changed because back in the day you would have someone writes the song, someone else arranges the song, someone else produces the song, someone else plays the song. And now it's like, Suno, give me this.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Yeah. Wa one of the things arranging is still a major contributor to is like every time you see an award show, you know, they take
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: they take popular songs and you know now like a little pit orchestra is playing them and somebody has to adapt the original song for whatever this ensemble is. And and that's still a major a major workforce. I mean everything Everything like that, everything like award shows has to be arranged for the players that are going to be there, the players that they have.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. Very cool.
Chris Frasco: But
Kristen Ford: So you you finish at Berkeley and then you are like, I'm going to Brooklyn.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, I d yeah. I was saying I was one a very fortunate Boston musician in the way that I had so many guitar students and so many cover gigs that I was making a pretty obscene amount of money for being like 21, 22. And I moved to Brooklyn to for some reason at twenty-two years old, I was like, I'm never gonna do anything of my own. I'm never gonna do anything really unique. unless I cut myself off from this amazing living I'm making, because it's making me lazy. Like I can just teach lessons and and play covers that I don't really care about all day long and be like, my God, my money's no good in Boston. Like I can eat for free, drink for free, and it's all turning me into this musician that does nothing of my own. And so I moved to Brooklyn to just disrupt it, to just cut off the the supply chain of money and gigs and have to start over and really have to say, what is my sound? Like, okay, I do a really good version of Steal My Kisses by Ben Harper, but that's not my music. That's not what I want to do. So what is my sound?
Kristen Ford: Mm.
Chris Frasco: And I think Brooklyn living in Brooklyn was very much the exploration of that is finding what does Chris Frasco sound like when he does when he doesn't have to care what anybody else thinks of it. So yeah. And move to bedside. Go ahead,
Kristen Ford: That's wild. And yeah.
Chris Frasco: sorry.
Kristen Ford: Any any sketchy you know, brushes with the underbelly of New York City and at your time living there? Skinny kid fresh out of school
Chris Frasco: yeah. yeah.
Kristen Ford: with an expensive guitar on his back.
Chris Frasco: Yup. Man, I I've definitely swung my guitar at people trying to rob me. I had a manager who got addicted to crack and stole my life savings. I got a roommate who got addicted to crack and stole all my jackets. I had a yeah, I mean everything, everything. New York definitely tested me in every way it could possibly test me. Like
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: I I remember getting on the the subway with my PV amp in one hand, my guitar on my back, and my pedal board in the other hand, and trying to balance a music stand and just you know 50 pounds in each hand being like When are we getting there?
Kristen Ford: Then you have like no forearm strength when it's time to like play the gig. You're like carrying it on a subway.
Chris Frasco: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. My first big gig at the bitter end, where we had I think it was us and a band called the Roof Walkers, and if we didn't sell it out, we damn near sold it out. I had to walk from the West Fourth Sop with all my gear all the way to the bitter end, which I wanna say is probably a half a mile and it was the hottest day of that particular year. So I had to bring
Kristen Ford: which summer in New York is so humid and is so intense.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Brutal. Yeah, I had to I had the force forethought to bring a change of shirt. But by the time you get there you're sweating through your underwear too, so it's like What the hell? And then you gotta play the gig.
Kristen Ford: Wow. Yeah. That my friend Maddie Alger has a studio in Nashville called The Cabin and he
Chris Frasco: Yeah, mm Marty Apples.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, he told me a story of riding the subway in New York with his drums on a little push cart and he was going to Madison Square Garden to play with Eminem and Rihanna.
Chris Frasco: What the hell?
Kristen Ford: It's like, don't mind me, just push my little cart. I gotta get to Madison Square Garden. It's like, hey, if they don't pay you in advance, like I don't blame you, man. I wouldn't take a cab either.
Chris Frasco: Buddy. If I if I got that gig, I would arrive in a limo on a credit card just to pat myself on the back. Jeez.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, you know, I rode my bike to sing at Fenway. I did. Hipster stuff.
Chris Frasco: Did you really? Wow. When did you sing it, Penner?
Kristen Ford: it was many years ago. It was kind of a wink from my my cousin who passed away from ALS. they were doing a benefit night. You know, they'll choose different k different charities throughout the season and this was a ALS benefit. so yeah, I got the call and I was trying to gloat
Chris Frasco: Major.
Kristen Ford: on it and then they booked my ex-girlfriend to sing the same season. It was like, I don't even have I don't even have bragging rights on Fenway. But I digress. So
Chris Frasco: Man, ex girlfriends will get you every time.
Kristen Ford: so you're in Brooklyn, you're like doing more original gigs, and you discover mastering. So you had already been doing like home recording and home mixing. I guess the same time you're learning arrangement and everything, not too far a jump.
Chris Frasco: It's it was it was interesting. When I moved to Brooklyn, I had very little recording experience at all. but I did have all this money saved up from that crazy life in Boston. And so so I spent a solid year literally just not having a job and reading everything I could about recording audio engineering, reading every like practicing every day. Like saying, okay, for this this three weeks, I'm going to learn everything I can about recording guitars. I'm gonna try different mics, different preamps, I'm gonna try different combinations of placement. And yeah, for a solid year, I just practiced every single instrument. How do we record it? How do we set up the mics? How do we get the best sounds? Like what what is the method? You know, and how do we tailor
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: these sounds to whatever we're trying to make? And so after that year, I started making my first album. As I felt I felt like I had kind of started to get my head around the knowledge required to just make a basic like demo, I guess. You know what I mean? Like a basic demo, but something you'd ask people to listen to, something you'd put out on nowadays Spotify and all that.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: And so my very first album was the first album I ever recorded. It was the first album I ever mixed. And you know, there's a lot of really amateur sounds on there. But there are also the sounds that say, this guy this guy's he's got potential. He's not totally getting it
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: yet, but he's got potential. Like that guitar like I'm a guitar player, so I think my guitar sounds were particularly good because I have a real understanding of what guitar should sound like to my ears. Whereas drums,
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: like I drums, I mean they're the hardest to record in the first place, but I also didn't I don't think I had a an idea in my mind's ear, if you will, what drums are really supposed to sound like in a recording. So like
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: the drum some of the drum sounds on that album are not very good. Or just kind of amateur and all that. So I kinda like slowly worked up and because of that song Anchor you were talking about off that first album that charted and all that, people started asking me to record their albums. And I had been probably
Kristen Ford: And and so releasing Anchor, do you just do this by yourself? Was it like CD
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: baby or
Chris Frasco: Reverb Nation, I think I released it through, but
Kristen Ford: Okay.
Chris Frasco: I didn't they didn't help promote it or anything. It was
Kristen Ford: And was it organic or were you like texting friends or handing out flyers and Times Square or getting on on you know, whatever message boards and promoting it, like acting as your own label, or was it kind of just like, Okay, here's the music, you put it out and then it found an audience or something?
Chris Frasco: I came across a list of independent independent radio stations around the United States that that played rock. And so I sent a C D in a in a you know in a padded envelope to every single radio station independent radio station in America that plays rock. And probably ninety-five percent of those ended up straight in the trash. But God, I don't remember anymore. I think it was a radio station in Georgia was the first to pick it up to like start playing it as a single. And then a few
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: weeks later, it was the number one most added number one most added song to playlists across America.
Kristen Ford: Wow. That's amazing.
Chris Frasco: That was the the craziest thing that's ever happened in my life. And from there, yeah.
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: It charted, it got up to fifty eight, I think, on the on the AC on the FM QB or ACQB, whatever it was. that was Yeah,
Kristen Ford: Nice.
Chris Frasco: all of a sudden you get you get in a cab and you're like, that's me singing.
Kristen Ford: That happened to you? Wow.
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: That's so cool.
Chris Frasco: It just once and never again, but hey, it happened once and I I'm pretty okay with that. Pretty psyched on just once.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. I mean, I've had similar like random hearings of my music where it was like, Did you put this on on purpose? It's like, no, it's just in the algorithm or whatever, right? But that's
Chris Frasco: Yeah, it's just gone.
Kristen Ford: that's so cool. And also it just shows that you have to have a sort of not Not an attachment to like the immediate result. It's more about the vision and you're like, I have savings for this year and I believe in this and let's just see what happens if I send one to every single radio station. I mean, getting told
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: no ninety-five times before you get five yeses, like that's that's a shitload of rejection. You have to be a little
Chris Frasco: That's the art.
Kristen Ford: unhinged, and then you're like, This was so successful.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, and my my twenties were
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: all my twenties were just mental illness. So I was very unhinged at that point in time. And
Kristen Ford: Mm.
Chris Frasco: and I think I don't know. I I finally at let's see that album came out. I was twenty four years old, and I f I mean I had been playing guitar. Since I was about 11, 10 or 11 years old. And after all
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: that time, I finally had the thing that I can hand you and say, Kristen, this is my sound. This is who I am. And
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: so yeah, if 95 of those 100 radio stations just threw my CD away, that's fine. Like I'm willing to waste that that money in in promotion. Waste that time, effort, and money in hoping that somebody will listen and be like, you know, I kind of like this.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Yeah. I find it so fascinating. we're very much from the same vintage wine. You know, we're like when I was in college playing in my band, Plaid on Plaid, we were like a rock band in Chicago. We didn't have our cell phones weren't great. I don't think we had even like iTunes on it. People were kind of on Facebook, but not really. And I would go out between classes and hand out four by ones of flyers. And there just kind of became this scene of like, well, if you're if you're queer and you like and you like rock, you should go to a plaid and plaid show 'cause there'll be a lot of queer people there. And
Chris Frasco: cool.
Kristen Ford: and we were not that good a band, but we had like some shows that were just like packed where it's like, wow, we have so many fans. And I I think now, you know, it's just it's harder to reach those people because their heads are gonna be down in their phones or they're immediately going to go to YouTube or Spotify and look at your numbers and cast a judgment on whether or not they think it's good or not. Whereas like sort of back in the in the older days of like, hey, maybe we will turn on a independent radio station and discover some new music. Yeah, I'll listen to the radio while I'm at work or whatever. Like, you know, there's kind of a things were harder and they also were easier. it's like
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: it's a a bit of both, right?
Chris Frasco: I I think that's absolutely dead on that it's harder and it's easier. Like it's
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: easier to make a recording, it's easier to to distribute it, but you can be distributing it to absolutely nobody. You can be distributing it on Spotify just to rot in their hard drive somewhere.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: You know, like
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: but it yeah, it is much harder to coerce people into really listening and giving it a chance. And a greater work, a greater project, like an album as opposed to a single, is it's so much harder to get people to spend the time. Because we're all just doom scrolling, myself included, all of them.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Which but one of say an album like OK Computer from Radiohead, I remember the first time I heard it, I didn't actually like it. The sounds were too weird. It was I didn't understand anything that Tom York was saying. I thought it was strange, but then by the time I'd listened through the record four times, I was completely addicted to it. And there are certain I don't know, like just experiences of life that we need music and we need an album. A single's not gonna get you there. But I I digress.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: I mean, I I think that's so cool that you're talking about so you're already writing songs, you're already playing, you're already performing, you've learned a lot about other people's songs to do all these cover gigs. So you really get it from the musician's perspective, but there's clearly an engineer's mind to your like, but how does it work? Like where I th I think that's a beautiful thing about as an artist, as a recording artist, you get to work with other people who have different ways of of experiencing music and experiencing the world. Where like I think for me it's more like, how does it make me feel? And I don't really give a shit if it's like a Les Paul or a a telecaster.
Chris Frasco: Mm-hmm.
Kristen Ford: It's just like which one's gonna make me have that feeling where I think. maybe your mind might go more to like, well, do you want it to be twangy or do you want it to be beefy?
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah. I I would say I would say you're you're a real musician's musician, where I I think I'm more of a dork, you know. But I I I
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: I love I love that space that I'm in. I love being a dork. But
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: yeah, yeah, like once I mean to this day, I mean and at this point I I've been audio I've been working as an audio engineer. For what, 18 years now? And to this day, I'm still learning stuff with every single project. It it it blows my mind when I stumble onto a bit of knowledge and I'm like, wait a minute, it was that way the whole time? Like the 10 years ago when I made an album, that was true then, and I didn't know. Yeah, it's it's crazy how the the the scientific part of making music. It never ceases to never ceases to kinda baffle you in how much you don't know or didn't know along the way.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. That's cool. And it and it also shows that you are smart because you are smart enough to know what you don't know. And that the rabbit hole, it just keeps going deeper and deeper with music. You'll never get to the bottom. well,
Chris Frasco: yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: so so when you start when you take on your first like you get hired to mix somebody's project, or was it mastering, or like, how did you sort of make that leap of faith from like, okay, I'm gigging, I'm a guitarist, or I'm gonna make it as a as an artist, I'm gonna be John Mayer or whatever, like, to wait, I could make a living engineering for other people and I will enjoy that and let's do this.
Chris Frasco: So the manager that stole my life savings, he did that right as my second album was about to come out. And
Kristen Ford: Okay.
Chris Frasco: that's what got me into audio engineering full time because basically the way he stole all this money from me was he forged contracts for an entire an entire six month tour. after my after my second record came out and he took his fee up front and disappeared and then as I'm starting to send stage plots out I start getting the emails back like that's a nice stage plot and all but we don't have you booked here and like no no no I I have a copy of my contract I'll send I'll send it over to you And the response was either that's our GM's name or our booking manager's name, but not his signature, or that's just a completely made up person. That's not that person does work here. So dude
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: steal this Yeah, he stole all that money from me by taking his fee up front. And he had all I mean, I had signed copies of every contract. I had been working with him for a year and he had gotten my music in front of some pretty powerful people. so I got kind of I I didn't feel like I had any reason not to trust him. So
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: yeah. So that was the point where it was like, okay, I was gonna go on tour for all this time. I still have to pay my musicians. They set their life aside, you know. So I had to I take take a loan and pay them. And now I have no money, now I'm in debt, paying New York City rent, and this is the only practical skill I have. is being
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: a musician and now an audio engineer. So that's how I got into
Kristen Ford: Wow, I'm so I Chris, I am so sorry that you got did like that. That's not right at
Chris Frasco: It's kind
Kristen Ford: all.
Chris Frasco: it's kind of the best thing that ever happened to me, because otherwise I would just be that guy who once had a song on the radio for like a little bit. You know, it's allowed me to do much bigger things, learn much more. Although it would really would have been nice to do that big tour and hopefully get my music in front of people, but whatever. You know. But yeah, I I think it
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: I think it's all worked out for the best. I think it's given me Given me the hard nose you need to be in the arts today.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well,
Chris Frasco: Does that make sense?
Kristen Ford: and I mean, yeah, and you understand from an artist perspective when they're looking at making a record, they've already spent so much money in the studio recording it. They've already spent money on the styling and the photo shoot. And they need to spend money on mastering now and then the manufacturing, and then they have to go on tour. And like you're understanding that, and you can be sort of a a steward of of those tough emotions as you're like the mastering is is so close to being the last step. how did you choose to move to Nashville and to kind of take your studio that you had the room all set up and then to just like uproot everything, potentially lose clients, How did that happen? Was it love? Was it a breakup?
Chris Frasco: It was it was
Kristen Ford: You're like, I gotta go.
Chris Frasco: neither. It was neither. It was it was my breakup with New York City. I think I I wasn't I wasn't a lifer. I was there for six years. My first three years, I loved it. My last three years, I was I was ready to be done. And
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: and in those last three years, so my first five years of New York, I was, you know, learning to be an audio engineering and then And then I was really spending all my time mixing and mastering, excuse me, recording and mixing other people's music. And in the last two years, I got into mastering. And the second the kind of the second I started doing that, I realized it was so in synchronicity with the way my brain works. That I love
Kristen Ford: Hm.
Chris Frasco: mixing, it's an artistic journey, it's it's a lot of fun. And you can light candles and have vibes and really get down to it. You know, but mastering is math. It's how are we going to make this the best it possibly can be? How are we going to tweak this so that it's sounds absolutely perfect on everything from a $100,000 sound system to a shitty little Bluetooth speaker? Like, and that
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: is that's kind of the way my brain works, is like thing yeah, just Kind of more, you know, what's in a C chord, C, E, and G, right? Like there's an answer. And so,
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: and even though mastering is also very artistic, you're you are kind of looking for a concrete answer. And so once I decided that that's the path I wanted to be on for the rest of my career, and I knew I was done with New York. And I mean, we're down to three music cities. It's really just New York, LA, and Nashville. And And Nashville.
Kristen Ford: Cheapest one. Like a mass hole. You're like, let's go.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. And Nashville had all these aging mastering engineers who were at the time I moved down here already in their 60s and 70s. And so I was thinking, wow, these guys are gonna retire. And by the time they retire, you know, hopefully I will have established my name enough that I can kind of inherit some of some of their market share as they retire. Most of them still haven't retired, by the way. Now they're in their eighties. And they're
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Good plan. Good plan.
Chris Frasco: God bless them, happy life, happy career. But yeah, I expected to inherit a large market share a long time ago.
Kristen Ford: Well, if if people don't understand like what mastering is, or I I think one of the one of the notes I wrote down was I can just use a plug-in and Suno is pre-mastered. So maybe just like the reasons why, and I keep mentioning Suno, I am super anti-AI and I don't think that's real music creation, but I think a lot of especially younger songwriters and people who are earlier in their career, it's still it's like, I just want it to sound finished. So I'll I'll plug in these prompts and that's that, right? But you know, I can use a mastering plug in to kind of make everything louder, wider. I was just listening to something that I had mastered and I was like, wow, the vocal sounds like complete shit. I was like, I totally fucked it up. I don't know what I don't know what I did, but so one of these knobs that I again, like, how does it make me feel? Maybe I thought it it sounded louder or sounded cooler, and then now I'm just like passively listening to it. I'm like, yeah, the The mix was way better than this master. I don't know what I'm doing with this plugin. So maybe just like why hire a mastering engineer or like what you might wanna listen to f in choosing a mastering engineer because it is one of those unique things where typically you just send your music off and then they send it back and you don't have to be in the same place. So you have options. But of course they should hire you.
Chris Frasco: Yes. Okay, I I love this question. so I I don't know anything about I don't know anything about AI mastering, but versions of it have been around for a long time. So before there was Suno or anything like that, there was Lander, which is like algorithmic mastering, I believe. It was it's this you upload your file and it gives you back a computer gener, you know, I don't know if it's AI AI, but it's algorithmic. Like the computer does it for you.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: and like you said, there's mastering plugins where it's all in one, like what is that one that's popular? What which one do you use?
Kristen Ford: It's in logic. I don't know. I just like updated my system settings and then it was like new button. Is it isotope?
Chris Frasco: Okay. There's I don't know why I can't think of it right now, but it's a very, very popular plugin. Yes, thank you. Yep. The Isotope plugin. It there's another name.
Kristen Ford: Okay. Yes. I'm a nerd too. I'm a nerd too. Sorry.
Chris Frasco: Good, good. It Isotope is the company that makes it. I can't think of what the actual plugin is, but you you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, the the I mean I think it's as simple, in some ways it's as simple as well, why should I listen to a real band when I could just listen to an AI band? You know? Why would you want a computer mastering your work rather than a real human being listening to your The art that you've created and saying, How can I make how can I deliver the most emotional impact? And you have a person absorbing your art. The the mastering engineer is the person, the first person who gets your mixes on fresh years, has never heard anything you've done before, and now they have a whole album of your art, and they get to take it in and say. Okay, I know I I know how to how to work with everything here and how to how to create cohesion. I know how to make sure it delivers the best emotional impact that it can, sonically. And yeah, yeah, it's there's what I always say about mastering is my job is to become your biggest fan while I'm mastering your.
Kristen Ford: Mm. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: And and then you're manipulating it saying, How can I make myself love this album to my maximum capacity to enjoy it? you know.
Kristen Ford: I mean when you put it that way, it's like it's it's kind of a no brainer. I think we moved to Nashville about the same time, but it's it's gone through a ton of growth and a ton of change. And w do you think that Nashville is still Music City? Is it are we in danger of Nashville becoming another New York that people just like can't afford. So it's going the scene is now going to be like Chattanooga or a bunch of little tiny scenes, Indianapolis. Like, or is it still really feeling vibrant, good place for musicians, especially because you just did 130 type five five spot shows. That's how many artists a night? So is that like close to like 500 different bands that you saw in one year?
Chris Frasco: Yeah, it's yeah, it's geez. So fifty, you know, fifty shows in a year times six acts in a night, what's that, three hundred something? Yeah, three hundred.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: So yeah, Yeah.
Kristen Ford: It's a village.
Chris Frasco: Well the the thing I can say without a doubt at all is that the talent here in Nashville is as good as I've ever seen it. Like the scene
Kristen Ford: What are
Chris Frasco: here is still very vibrant. However, we're I think we're all struggling. I think everybody, I mean, it's and it's not just musicians, everybody. The year and the economy we live in, most people are really struggling to get by. Right. So there are there are plenty of great artists who are getting priced out of Nashville. That's a reality. That's not like just people making shit up. No, that's the reality.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: and I think I think the music industry like Nashville is music city because the industry is here, right? We have all these major label studios, we have, you know, an ASCAT building, we have a BMI building. The actual the the cog, right? The the real machinery is here. And that's why it it never won't be Music City, but I think there will be another East Nashville that pops up somewhere else, right? I mean Detroit is prime.
Kristen Ford: Sacramento.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. I mean Peoria. You can you
Kristen Ford: Okay.
Chris Frasco: can buy a you can buy a five thousand square foot church in Peoria for ninety nine thousand dollars. Are you telling me you wouldn't want to move a band there and just You know, put your money together and buy it outright and have a recording studio, a venue, a rehearsal space, have all that and not have to pay a mortgage.
Kristen Ford: I think you you have a point that it's like there's certain things in cities that just create an energy and create a momentum and I I know I was a better musician for eight years spent in Nashville and just being, you know, like, Hey, everybody's running real real fast and real strong here. Are you gonna keep up or are you gonna tap out, you know? But Do you think that that labels matter in twenty twenty six?
Chris Frasco: man, I don't know I don't know if I'm the right person to really answer that. Like I I feel like I'm very much a local character here. You know? I
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: I I make my mark on a very local level.
Kristen Ford: Well, I guess I just asked that because I think we grew up in an era of Spin magazine and Rolling Stone and looking at the Billboard charts in the back of the Rolling Stone with the, you know, it's on sub pop or it's on fueled by ramen and like I like this kind of music.
Chris Frasco: good.
Kristen Ford: So it's on this label. And then I think the dream of the record deal, the more people that I talk to, and then my own experience just getting the more layers there are of Red tape, team, personnel, calendars, shifting commitments. Where is the return on investment? W what's the bandwidth for this, for that? artists like like River Shook leaving 30 Tigers and being like, I'm gonna self-release this record. in terms of bands that you booked and they're either gonna draw or they're not gonna draw. Granted it's a Tuesday night, but as a promoter, like how do you know who to book and who to say like, hey, keep keep building and hit me up in a in a couple months.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, I mean it it is it's such a wild thing with with draw, right? Like the the ideal show at a at a small to medium sized club like the five spot is everybody brings twenty five people. We have five or six acts, everybody brings twenty five people and the bar makes money, the musicians make money, we have a great night, it's elbow to elbow and we all have a great time. However, the reality of that, especially on a Tuesday night and in the economy we live in, is that number one, patrons don't have the money sometimes. Like that's something I've been running into a lot. People saying, like, man, I'm sorry, I just can't afford to go out tonight. And
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: you say, like, well, it's a five dollar cover, but there's an of course you're gonna go out and you're gonna buy drinks. And you know, you're out, you'll probably eat somewhere along the way, and that five-dollar cover turns into a one hundred dollar night pretty quickly. Right. So
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: even sometimes there was a show about two months ago where I felt like the bill was just ironclad. This was gonna be an elbow-to-elbow show. the short version is that. It was a terrible turnout. It was like probably thirty people in there or less. And and I'm looking around and the I mean the show was no joke, mind blowing. Everybody was so good. It should I mean it should
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: have been packed out. But it wasn't and I had I was absol I'm still absolutely baffled. So
Kristen Ford: Yeah. I mean I I think
Chris Frasco: I have
Kristen Ford: no, I think that's that's tight from the from the insider perspective of like getting all these emails, you know, of bands that wanna play.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. And and truly by the same by the same unpredictable standard. Sometimes you'll book somebody who's got nothing of what they're supposed to have. They have 200 followers on Instagram. They just released their first EP and they'll bring 75 people. And you're like, Wait, what? Really? Like I I was expecting you to bring 10 people or less just based on Where you were in you know, your career, and that's why I've got you opening the show and you know, this and that. And they packed the place, and you're like, All right, wow. Those great veteran musicians who played last week brought six of their friends and nobody else came to see them. You know, it's it's
Kristen Ford: yeah.
Chris Frasco: it's mind blowing. But it's also I think it's also a factor of it being on a Tuesday and you know, and It's Nashville, so there's always ten other shows.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Is that partially why you decided to shut it down? Was it just was kind of like taking up so much of your time and occasionally not you know, it's like you can do a labor of love, you know, nine out of ten times, but every once in a while, like you gotta eat, you gotta compensate yourself for all the time and energy. you know. Or do you think it's
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Well
Kristen Ford: just like other things you wanted to focus on?
Chris Frasco: The reason I decided to shut it down is because me me and the venue I it's like being in a relationship, right? Like thing things have been rocky between me and the venue and it finally got to a place where it just seemed like they they wanted to go a different way and I you know I I was tired of being you know kind of cross examined about like well that week with the tornado warning. Why did nobody show up to your show that week? It's like the tornadoes always
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: hit five points. Like, I can't I can't convince people out of their their right to self preserve, you know. So
Kristen Ford: it's the toughest industry and yet it's also like there are miracles happening every day and and we we obviously love it so we're all in it, but the promoters and the and the venue owners and the bands and the managers and the like we're all kind of blaming each other when it doesn't go well and eager to say, when when can you do this again when it is good? But I wanted to ask you about like spatial audio.
Chris Frasco: And we're all in this wait what?
Kristen Ford: sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.
Chris Frasco: was gonna say and like all of us down that chain of command are all kind of stuck in this never ending dysfunctional relationship as well. But we did we did
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: the very we did the very last show just last night and I mean yeah thank you.
Kristen Ford: my god. Wow. Congrats. Or or poor one out or I don't I don't know what to say, but wild timing.
Chris Frasco: No, it was it was the most friggin' magical evening of my life. It was so much fun. It was all my very best friends in the room, my very best friends on stage. It was everything I could have asked for and way, way more. Like it was unbelievable. Yeah.
Kristen Ford: That's so great. That's so great. And also like, yeah, the the five spot is a really special venue in a really special part of Nashville. And Nashville is a really special town. Not to just like over but it's it's kind of a one in a million kind of place. So go visit if you you're visiting Nashville. Go check out the five spot and buy a bunch of shit. 'Cause we wanna
Chris Frasco: Yeah, that's all do that.
Kristen Ford: keep them open. so yeah.
Chris Frasco: Yes. It's so important. It's so important to our local scene. The the OG basement, the five spot, like just those two places, honestly. That's I mean, that's the I feel like that's the genesis of our entire music scene, our independent music scene here in Nashville is those two rooms.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Totally. And even if you don't drink, just go buy tickets, buy like some food or or a a Diet Coke and and buy some merch from the bands and like pat yourself on the back 'cause that's you know, not all heroes were cape, but if everybody was like, you know what, I need to do this at least it's been three months in my hometown. I haven't been to a small show, I gotta go. Just go. Don't even if you don't even know the band, like just go and support and you might here one of the most incredible bands with like seven people in the room and you just don't know. I did wanna pivot
Chris Frasco: my god, can I respond to that?
Kristen Ford: Yes, please, please.
Chris Frasco: Okay, okay, I'll make it quick. Yes, I feel like this is so important. especially coming from Western Mass, where this very much isn't a thing, right? Like in Nashville, we're all we have such a community of artists, we all go out to support each other and we try to bring, you know, normal people who like music. But like in Western Mass, where we grew up, that's that's not a thing. People save their money all year and they go see Bruce Springsteen, they go see Taylor Swift. And a night of a concert is a once or twice a year thing that costs thousands of dollars. And it's not like there aren't local bands everywhere. There are local bands everywhere. Like, and if you make the effort to support them and just give them a shot, you'll probably find something you like.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. That just gave me chills. There's there's something about going to see live music. I like I've been someone who's moved around a bunch, I've toured a bunch, I've traveled a lot, I've been sleeping on couches or living in a van or like not rooted so much of my life. But if I go into a room where there's live music, suddenly I can deal. Suddenly I'm like, we're still in it. I we're the heart's still beating. We got this. even when they're bad sometimes, even a bad show,
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: you like there's something. Well, real quick on the audio end, I wanted to ask about like video games, spatial audio, people who have 3D headsets and maybe want to like experience. also I've heard that Apple TV, they want music that they sync to be spatially mixed. Is that anything that you've tried to dabble in, or is is surround and all that just over the top? Do you think it's something that artists should con consider getting a version of their record made asking for a friend, in spatial audio, or is it kind of like a fad, like a Blu-ray DVD that's just gonna
Chris Frasco: This is This is such a good question. This is such a good question. well, I mean, if you have the budget, right? Because that's what everything comes down to. If you have the budget to get an atmosphere on on your album, I don't know why you wouldn't do it if it's not going to strain your budget. However, I do believe that just a stereo mix. will be just fine. You know, you you're not going to lose listeners because you're missing an Atmos mix. I can absolutely say that with confidence. Atmos is cool. I got to sit in on when they remixed Rocket Man by Elton John, I got to sit on sit in on the the Atmos remix for that song. And it was freaking cool. It was I mean, it was in what was at the time the only real Atmos room in all of Nashville.
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: that was a pretty amazing experience.
Kristen Ford: Can you describe the room, like the gear or the layout?
Chris Frasco: It was I think they're really trying not to tamper. So they it wasn't like a a console or anything. It was mostly software, but the room itself was very sophisticated. Like the I don't know what the like count of drivers were, but I mean it was it was everywhere. Like the the walls were just basically
Kristen Ford: Like drivers being the speakers.
Chris Frasco: yeah. Yeah. They're I mean the walls were some sort of steel mesh and it would there were just you were completely surrounded in speakers. It was absolutely wild. And so yeah, they're they're they they of course want to stay true to the original recording. It's not it's not a an interpretive remix. It's a utilitarian remix of how can we make this How can we make this platform shine while still remaining true to the original sound of this record?
Kristen Ford: Hmm. That's cool. I wanna get it done. I
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: don't have the budget for it, but it's it sounds awesome. Who cares?
Chris Frasco: Well it's like it's like putting your record on vinyl, right? Like it's just such a cool moment in life.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Yeah. Like Just yeah, super I I I'm in love with technology and I also am really I think it's cool to be from like an analog and a r and like an older just like hands on place, which you learned to master via reading books and you were in
Chris Frasco: No no no no. I I learned to master
Kristen Ford: a course or
Chris Frasco: No, I learned to master by trial and error, honestly. I learned to master because I was in a situation where I had to do it for myself, for my own for my own record. after that guy stole all my money, I had to master
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: my second record myself. So at that point, you know, you've got time and no money. So again, I just kinda dove in. I dove in and I must have done thirty different masters for that record from very,
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: very bad to very very good. And I think I probably settled on one that was okay, you know.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. Wow.
Chris Frasco: I didn't the the first time you do it, even if even if you find a passion for it, you're never gonna be good at it the first time. So that first record, it is a a solid master. I can listen to it and be like, Okay, I'm not upset at this. But it definitely wasn't
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: like, wow, I'm an expert mastering engineer. Record one, here we go.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Well, and then just 'cause I do kind of love numbers and fancy things, how much do you think you've invested in your current mastering chain and setup and all of the gear? Which we won't post your home address, but like, you know, if people
Chris Frasco: Right.
Kristen Ford: are thinking, my gosh, it's like two hundred dollars to master a song, you know, or it's gonna be like a grand fifteen hundred to do my whole EP or my album, like, how much how much do you think You know, education and time
Chris Frasco: yeah.
Kristen Ford: you've invested aside.
Chris Frasco: Can I take some Xanax before I answer this? Like it's big
Kristen Ford: This segment sponsored by Music Pro Insurance.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. It's gotta be it's gotta be two hundred thousand dollars. It's gotta be. Between the room, the gear, the freaking cables. That's that's where the real money is made. The cables. Man, anytime you
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: have a recording studio or you buy a new piece of gear, you buy several pieces of gear, what you don't expect is the cost of the frickin' cables to connect it all to whatever else you have. Yeah.
Kristen Ford: Well, I also wanna just thank you for coming on the the podcast and using this platform Riverside that I use because you're a guy with two hundred thousand dollars worth of pristine gear and you're doing this on your phone in your kitchen. Like I just I'm sure it's gotta be tough. I I'm do you have like audiophile itis where when stuff it just like sounds bad, you're like, I gotta get out of here. Like if you're you
Chris Frasco: No, I can I can turn it on.
Kristen Ford: know, at a club or okay.
Chris Frasco: It's it's like you're saying, even when
Kristen Ford: Secret power you can turn it on or off.
Chris Frasco: there's a bad band, at least there's a band. You know. You get you gotta
Kristen Ford: Sure. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: be able to turn that side of yourself off and just be like, I love music. And here I'm I'm getting to have a conversation with you, getting to catch up with you. I don't care if it sounds terrible. I would much rather do this than not do it, you know?
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Well, Chris Frasco, congratulations on a very successful and very meaningful run at the five spot with your tight five Tuesdays and creating opportunities for so many other artists. That's amazing. And your new single is Get Me Out, which is that part of a an album that's coming
Chris Frasco: Yep, it's it's an EP of all the songs I wrote in the early days of Type Five Tuesday that have become kind of the songs that 'cause I play a set every week, you know, when I play those ones, they people sing along, which is awesome. And so it's called Tuesday Night Anthems.
Kristen Ford: It's got a great album cover too, so just run over to Bandcamp and purchase that. well, I have a segment on the show called Leave Me with a Smile. could do you have any funny stories or jokes you could leave us with today on the podcast?
Chris Frasco: Ooh, damn, putting me on the spot. let's see. I mean, the thing that has made me laugh so much during during the time of doing type five is I got to do it with Mark Robertson, who's a legendary Nashville bass player. And he does experimental electronic music. And every week I would try to come up with New alliterations to describe him by. And the only the only one I really repeated repeated a lot was that he's the Sultan of Synth. But I mean it's gone all over the place. I've called him the Paul Bunyan of Polyrhythms, the Archimedes of Automation, the the Sisyphus of Swort Sondo. Like, I've given that guy
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: a million nicknames. And at this point the audience just rolls their eyes and groans and I just laugh inside forever.
Kristen Ford: Well, that's great. And it is it is really it was it was quite something to go from, you know, a rock and band to a singer songwriter where you wanna just like cry your eyes out to now weird bleep bloop circuit bendy. It just is was beautiful and a vibe and like nothing else. So if if y'all are trying to find Chris to work on your project, check out Masterfrasco dot com and Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Chris. I hope you have a great rest of your day.
Chris Frasco: Thank you, Kristen. Thank you for having me.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: weeks later, it was the number one most added song across America. all of a sudden you get you get in a cab and you're like, that's me singing. mastering is math. It's How are we going to tweak this so that it's sounds absolutely perfect on everything from a $100,000 sound system to a shitty little speaker? I've definitely swung my guitar at people trying to rob me. I had a manager who got addicted to crack and stole my life savings.
Kristen Ford: that's a shitload of rejection. You have to be a little
Chris Frasco: That's the art.
Kristen Ford: unhinged, and then you're like, This was so successful. Welcome back to Oberman Amplified, the podcast where we talk about music, mindset, the business, and so, so much more. We're removing gatekeepers. We're making everybody leave with a smile. And we're so glad you're here. Make sure that you hit like, subscribe, and drop a comment so that Oberman Amplified, the channel on YouTube and all podcasting platforms can grow. my name is Kristen Ford, I'm your host, and joining me today is Chris Frasco. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop.
Chris Frasco: Hey, what's up?
Kristen Ford: so good to have you on. so Chris Frasco is a singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer, mix, and mastering engineer, Western Massachusetts raised, New York City teeth cut, and currently based in Nashville, Tennessee. He has worked in music for decades. His song Anchor hit the adult contemporary radio tracking top one hundred. He has studied the Bobcats mastering audio, the science of physics, and the physics of sound. he has worked on. Such amazing projects as O'Shea, The Famine and the Feast, released on Sony Music, Kevin Keller, Lestrada, Two Cow Garage, Brand New Flag on Last Chance Records, John Latham, Lifers on Cafe Rooster Records. Micah Schnabel, The Teenage Years of the Twenty First Century, Brian Wright and the Sneak Ups, Howling Giant. Elon Musk as your wanderer taps at the invisible gate on worst basis records. Painted Canyon, Permanent Reflection. Whitey Morgan and the 78ths live at Bandit Town USA. Yellow Bird on Flower Records. Howling Giant on Not a Label. Maybe that's not their maybe they're just like Howling Giant. the hit the lights.
Chris Frasco: They're on they're on Belize Funeral nowadays.
Kristen Ford: Okay, Blues Funeral. I love it. Howling Giant, Black Hole Space Wizard, part one and part two, on the compilation Whale Lord from Stonerbox, Cleopatra, and Afton Wolf's 23, among many others, like including maybe at least one or two of my own songs. And Chris has received airplay on Lightning 100. He has held his own in writers' rounds, even with the most prestigious and pretentious natural songwriters. His mastering studio is the result of two years of construction and research and development on the Master Frasco Audio Labs. His gear list includes some of the wonderful and expensive pieces of equipment, such as we got Genilex Studio Monitors, the Reveal Ultimaz Salon 2, which looks like it could fly a spaceship to the next galaxy. Several compressors like the API 5500, the API 2500, a multi-channel manly massive passive, the Manly Very MU, which Manly I think is made from Australia, right? It's like very well crafted stuff.
Chris Frasco: No, Chino, California.
Kristen Ford: okay. I stand corrected. Cali, baby, just like me. And he includes digital processing from waves, box and go, and PSP, among many other pieces of beautiful gear. as the host of Tight Five Tuesdays at the Five Spot, which is a Nashville-based music venue, where amazing artists such as Lady Gaga, Garrett Tallent, who's in the Bruce Springsteen band, Audrey Freed, Aaron Lee Tazjan, John Prine, Lucinda Williams, Nora Jones, Guthrie Trapp, Lowe's Straitjackets, among many more, has played at the Five Spot every week. booking, promoting, and hosting with this house band 130 shows, including During one Americana Fest performance where I played and it landed me at least one high-paying festival performance, which I hope you don't want a commission because I already spent the money. His songs, Donaldson Motel and the latest single Get Me Out, showcases Signature Sound, A Diamond in the Rough, Worn Leather in the Rhinestones, a Renaissance Man and true music lover dedicated to the craft of shaping sound through mastering, engineering, and just being a champion of the scene in so many wonderful ways. Welcome to the podcast, Chris Frasco.
Chris Frasco: Wow, Kristen, that's that was really, really nice. I jeez. I I'm so glad to be here. I've I've been such a fan of yours for so long and like I love that you're doing this. This is fantastic. Like yeah, and I'm I didn't know that you landed a high paying festival gig from type five. That's amazing.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, this band's manager was
Chris Frasco: I'm good. I'm glad that you helped.
Kristen Ford: watching was watching them play and then was later gonna finish up booking for the festival and you know it's weird the more you chase these things, the more they evade and the more you almost forget about it. Sometimes things just fall into your lap. we're both from Massachusetts and you're from West Springfield, right? Are you born there? Okay.
Chris Frasco: It's true. I was born in West Springfield, yeah.
Kristen Ford: Cool. And you know, if if you don't know, Springfield's kind of a shithole to everybody out there at home. Western Mass is just there's all the money in Boston and then there's I feel like the rest of Massachusetts where it's a lot of like blue-collar, white-collar people, or the milling industry like isn't really manufacturing's not really happening like it used to be. They did invent basketball in Springfield, but coming up in Western Mass, what influence did that have on your approach to music, the music you were listening to? And did did you always imagine that you would leave? Cause I personally grew up in Greenfield Mass. I was like, I'm getting the fuck out of here the second I'm done with high school. Bye.
Chris Frasco: That was that was my exact train of thought as well. It's funny, I think my my my perspective on Western Mass has changed in the last like I think I've been away from it for so long that I can go back and now it's pretty. Like I understand why it's pretty, I understand why people want to live there. But growing up, I I really I had such a resentment towards it. And I think it's because the arts aren't really encouraged. You know, they kind of
Kristen Ford: Interesting.
Chris Frasco: especially my sister went to a performing arts high school, I think possibly with you.
Kristen Ford: P V P A. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah. She went there too. So she got a little bit more of that. Whereas I I just went to West Side High School where it was like, All right, put your guitar down and pick up a hockey stick like a real man. And it Yeah.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Go Bruins.
Chris Frasco: Exactly. And I had just had nothing, nothing but resentment for so long. And I don't know, I'm forty-two years old now. So when when I go back, I feel like I'm so disconnected from the beginning of that resentment that I can now look at Western Mass and just say, Wow, it's it's green here. It's it's it's nice. And I also don't
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: have to live there. I'm visiting for like three days, four days at most. So it's a different vibe.
Kristen Ford: Okay. Yeah, I mean
Chris Frasco: I'm
Kristen Ford: it's always good to fantasize about going back.
Chris Frasco: yeah, yeah. I would never move back. Never move back, but it's nice to visit family and everything.
Kristen Ford: Totally. So what brought you to move to Brooklyn, Bed Stuy? And that's where you made this this debut record of yours that I'd love to chat about. That process of just like
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: landing in New York, was it overwhelming? Were you in school or anything or just working at a restaurant?
Chris Frasco: I had just I had just finished school, I just finished college and it's funny, I I was a very lucky Boston musician, in some ways. I was a very lucky Boston
Kristen Ford: Did you go to Berkeley?
Chris Frasco: yes, I did.
Kristen Ford: Okay. No big deal. You don't even put it in your bio.
Chris Frasco: No. I mean again I we're talking twenty twenty four years ago I started Berkeley. It's not relevant anymore.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, but Berkeley
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: is a very competitive school to get into and it's world renowned as one of the greatest music schools anywhere.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean it was an amazing experience. the the greatest advantage to going to Berkeley is you come out of school with a couch to sleep on in every major city across the world. I think that's the number one thing
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: you get from Berkeley. Is once we all leave school, you know, everyone, you know, just explodes out into wherever they want to be. And all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I have a friend in Valencia. I have a friend in Rome. I have a friend right now, I have a friend who just moved to Sardinia. Like that's what you want. That's what you want is a couch to sleep on.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Well and
Chris Frasco: You know?
Kristen Ford: like yeah, but also like were you studying engineering there or guitar, songwriting?
Chris Frasco: I was actually I was an arranging major. So like I feel like
Kristen Ford: That's just funny. It just shows how much life has changed because back in the day you would have someone writes the song, someone else arranges the song, someone else produces the song, someone else plays the song. And now it's like, Suno, give me this.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Yeah. Wa one of the things arranging is still a major contributor to is like every time you see an award show, you know, they take
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: they take popular songs and you know now like a little pit orchestra is playing them and somebody has to adapt the original song for whatever this ensemble is. And and that's still a major a major workforce. I mean everything Everything like that, everything like award shows has to be arranged for the players that are going to be there, the players that they have.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. Very cool.
Chris Frasco: But
Kristen Ford: So you you finish at Berkeley and then you are like, I'm going to Brooklyn.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, I d yeah. I was saying I was one a very fortunate Boston musician in the way that I had so many guitar students and so many cover gigs that I was making a pretty obscene amount of money for being like 21, 22. And I moved to Brooklyn to for some reason at twenty-two years old, I was like, I'm never gonna do anything of my own. I'm never gonna do anything really unique. unless I cut myself off from this amazing living I'm making, because it's making me lazy. Like I can just teach lessons and and play covers that I don't really care about all day long and be like, my God, my money's no good in Boston. Like I can eat for free, drink for free, and it's all turning me into this musician that does nothing of my own. And so I moved to Brooklyn to just disrupt it, to just cut off the the supply chain of money and gigs and have to start over and really have to say, what is my sound? Like, okay, I do a really good version of Steal My Kisses by Ben Harper, but that's not my music. That's not what I want to do. So what is my sound?
Kristen Ford: Mm.
Chris Frasco: And I think Brooklyn living in Brooklyn was very much the exploration of that is finding what does Chris Frasco sound like when he does when he doesn't have to care what anybody else thinks of it. So yeah. And move to bedside. Go ahead,
Kristen Ford: That's wild. And yeah.
Chris Frasco: sorry.
Kristen Ford: Any any sketchy you know, brushes with the underbelly of New York City and at your time living there? Skinny kid fresh out of school
Chris Frasco: yeah. yeah.
Kristen Ford: with an expensive guitar on his back.
Chris Frasco: Yup. Man, I I've definitely swung my guitar at people trying to rob me. I had a manager who got addicted to crack and stole my life savings. I got a roommate who got addicted to crack and stole all my jackets. I had a yeah, I mean everything, everything. New York definitely tested me in every way it could possibly test me. Like
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: I I remember getting on the the subway with my PV amp in one hand, my guitar on my back, and my pedal board in the other hand, and trying to balance a music stand and just you know 50 pounds in each hand being like When are we getting there?
Kristen Ford: Then you have like no forearm strength when it's time to like play the gig. You're like carrying it on a subway.
Chris Frasco: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. My first big gig at the bitter end, where we had I think it was us and a band called the Roof Walkers, and if we didn't sell it out, we damn near sold it out. I had to walk from the West Fourth Sop with all my gear all the way to the bitter end, which I wanna say is probably a half a mile and it was the hottest day of that particular year. So I had to bring
Kristen Ford: which summer in New York is so humid and is so intense.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Brutal. Yeah, I had to I had the force forethought to bring a change of shirt. But by the time you get there you're sweating through your underwear too, so it's like What the hell? And then you gotta play the gig.
Kristen Ford: Wow. Yeah. That my friend Maddie Alger has a studio in Nashville called The Cabin and he
Chris Frasco: Yeah, mm Marty Apples.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, he told me a story of riding the subway in New York with his drums on a little push cart and he was going to Madison Square Garden to play with Eminem and Rihanna.
Chris Frasco: What the hell?
Kristen Ford: It's like, don't mind me, just push my little cart. I gotta get to Madison Square Garden. It's like, hey, if they don't pay you in advance, like I don't blame you, man. I wouldn't take a cab either.
Chris Frasco: Buddy. If I if I got that gig, I would arrive in a limo on a credit card just to pat myself on the back. Jeez.
Kristen Ford: Yeah, you know, I rode my bike to sing at Fenway. I did. Hipster stuff.
Chris Frasco: Did you really? Wow. When did you sing it, Penner?
Kristen Ford: it was many years ago. It was kind of a wink from my my cousin who passed away from ALS. they were doing a benefit night. You know, they'll choose different k different charities throughout the season and this was a ALS benefit. so yeah, I got the call and I was trying to gloat
Chris Frasco: Major.
Kristen Ford: on it and then they booked my ex-girlfriend to sing the same season. It was like, I don't even have I don't even have bragging rights on Fenway. But I digress. So
Chris Frasco: Man, ex girlfriends will get you every time.
Kristen Ford: so you're in Brooklyn, you're like doing more original gigs, and you discover mastering. So you had already been doing like home recording and home mixing. I guess the same time you're learning arrangement and everything, not too far a jump.
Chris Frasco: It's it was it was interesting. When I moved to Brooklyn, I had very little recording experience at all. but I did have all this money saved up from that crazy life in Boston. And so so I spent a solid year literally just not having a job and reading everything I could about recording audio engineering, reading every like practicing every day. Like saying, okay, for this this three weeks, I'm going to learn everything I can about recording guitars. I'm gonna try different mics, different preamps, I'm gonna try different combinations of placement. And yeah, for a solid year, I just practiced every single instrument. How do we record it? How do we set up the mics? How do we get the best sounds? Like what what is the method? You know, and how do we tailor
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: these sounds to whatever we're trying to make? And so after that year, I started making my first album. As I felt I felt like I had kind of started to get my head around the knowledge required to just make a basic like demo, I guess. You know what I mean? Like a basic demo, but something you'd ask people to listen to, something you'd put out on nowadays Spotify and all that.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: And so my very first album was the first album I ever recorded. It was the first album I ever mixed. And you know, there's a lot of really amateur sounds on there. But there are also the sounds that say, this guy this guy's he's got potential. He's not totally getting it
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: yet, but he's got potential. Like that guitar like I'm a guitar player, so I think my guitar sounds were particularly good because I have a real understanding of what guitar should sound like to my ears. Whereas drums,
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: like I drums, I mean they're the hardest to record in the first place, but I also didn't I don't think I had a an idea in my mind's ear, if you will, what drums are really supposed to sound like in a recording. So like
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: the drum some of the drum sounds on that album are not very good. Or just kind of amateur and all that. So I kinda like slowly worked up and because of that song Anchor you were talking about off that first album that charted and all that, people started asking me to record their albums. And I had been probably
Kristen Ford: And and so releasing Anchor, do you just do this by yourself? Was it like CD
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: baby or
Chris Frasco: Reverb Nation, I think I released it through, but
Kristen Ford: Okay.
Chris Frasco: I didn't they didn't help promote it or anything. It was
Kristen Ford: And was it organic or were you like texting friends or handing out flyers and Times Square or getting on on you know, whatever message boards and promoting it, like acting as your own label, or was it kind of just like, Okay, here's the music, you put it out and then it found an audience or something?
Chris Frasco: I came across a list of independent independent radio stations around the United States that that played rock. And so I sent a C D in a in a you know in a padded envelope to every single radio station independent radio station in America that plays rock. And probably ninety-five percent of those ended up straight in the trash. But God, I don't remember anymore. I think it was a radio station in Georgia was the first to pick it up to like start playing it as a single. And then a few
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: weeks later, it was the number one most added number one most added song to playlists across America.
Kristen Ford: Wow. That's amazing.
Chris Frasco: That was the the craziest thing that's ever happened in my life. And from there, yeah.
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: It charted, it got up to fifty eight, I think, on the on the AC on the FM QB or ACQB, whatever it was. that was Yeah,
Kristen Ford: Nice.
Chris Frasco: all of a sudden you get you get in a cab and you're like, that's me singing.
Kristen Ford: That happened to you? Wow.
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: That's so cool.
Chris Frasco: It just once and never again, but hey, it happened once and I I'm pretty okay with that. Pretty psyched on just once.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. I mean, I've had similar like random hearings of my music where it was like, Did you put this on on purpose? It's like, no, it's just in the algorithm or whatever, right? But that's
Chris Frasco: Yeah, it's just gone.
Kristen Ford: that's so cool. And also it just shows that you have to have a sort of not Not an attachment to like the immediate result. It's more about the vision and you're like, I have savings for this year and I believe in this and let's just see what happens if I send one to every single radio station. I mean, getting told
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: no ninety-five times before you get five yeses, like that's that's a shitload of rejection. You have to be a little
Chris Frasco: That's the art.
Kristen Ford: unhinged, and then you're like, This was so successful.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, and my my twenties were
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: all my twenties were just mental illness. So I was very unhinged at that point in time. And
Kristen Ford: Mm.
Chris Frasco: and I think I don't know. I I finally at let's see that album came out. I was twenty four years old, and I f I mean I had been playing guitar. Since I was about 11, 10 or 11 years old. And after all
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: that time, I finally had the thing that I can hand you and say, Kristen, this is my sound. This is who I am. And
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: so yeah, if 95 of those 100 radio stations just threw my CD away, that's fine. Like I'm willing to waste that that money in in promotion. Waste that time, effort, and money in hoping that somebody will listen and be like, you know, I kind of like this.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Yeah. I find it so fascinating. we're very much from the same vintage wine. You know, we're like when I was in college playing in my band, Plaid on Plaid, we were like a rock band in Chicago. We didn't have our cell phones weren't great. I don't think we had even like iTunes on it. People were kind of on Facebook, but not really. And I would go out between classes and hand out four by ones of flyers. And there just kind of became this scene of like, well, if you're if you're queer and you like and you like rock, you should go to a plaid and plaid show 'cause there'll be a lot of queer people there. And
Chris Frasco: cool.
Kristen Ford: and we were not that good a band, but we had like some shows that were just like packed where it's like, wow, we have so many fans. And I I think now, you know, it's just it's harder to reach those people because their heads are gonna be down in their phones or they're immediately going to go to YouTube or Spotify and look at your numbers and cast a judgment on whether or not they think it's good or not. Whereas like sort of back in the in the older days of like, hey, maybe we will turn on a independent radio station and discover some new music. Yeah, I'll listen to the radio while I'm at work or whatever. Like, you know, there's kind of a things were harder and they also were easier. it's like
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: it's a a bit of both, right?
Chris Frasco: I I think that's absolutely dead on that it's harder and it's easier. Like it's
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: easier to make a recording, it's easier to to distribute it, but you can be distributing it to absolutely nobody. You can be distributing it on Spotify just to rot in their hard drive somewhere.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: You know, like
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: but it yeah, it is much harder to coerce people into really listening and giving it a chance. And a greater work, a greater project, like an album as opposed to a single, is it's so much harder to get people to spend the time. Because we're all just doom scrolling, myself included, all of them.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Which but one of say an album like OK Computer from Radiohead, I remember the first time I heard it, I didn't actually like it. The sounds were too weird. It was I didn't understand anything that Tom York was saying. I thought it was strange, but then by the time I'd listened through the record four times, I was completely addicted to it. And there are certain I don't know, like just experiences of life that we need music and we need an album. A single's not gonna get you there. But I I digress.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: I mean, I I think that's so cool that you're talking about so you're already writing songs, you're already playing, you're already performing, you've learned a lot about other people's songs to do all these cover gigs. So you really get it from the musician's perspective, but there's clearly an engineer's mind to your like, but how does it work? Like where I th I think that's a beautiful thing about as an artist, as a recording artist, you get to work with other people who have different ways of of experiencing music and experiencing the world. Where like I think for me it's more like, how does it make me feel? And I don't really give a shit if it's like a Les Paul or a a telecaster.
Chris Frasco: Mm-hmm.
Kristen Ford: It's just like which one's gonna make me have that feeling where I think. maybe your mind might go more to like, well, do you want it to be twangy or do you want it to be beefy?
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah. I I would say I would say you're you're a real musician's musician, where I I think I'm more of a dork, you know. But I I I
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: I love I love that space that I'm in. I love being a dork. But
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: yeah, yeah, like once I mean to this day, I mean and at this point I I've been audio I've been working as an audio engineer. For what, 18 years now? And to this day, I'm still learning stuff with every single project. It it it blows my mind when I stumble onto a bit of knowledge and I'm like, wait a minute, it was that way the whole time? Like the 10 years ago when I made an album, that was true then, and I didn't know. Yeah, it's it's crazy how the the the scientific part of making music. It never ceases to never ceases to kinda baffle you in how much you don't know or didn't know along the way.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. That's cool. And it and it also shows that you are smart because you are smart enough to know what you don't know. And that the rabbit hole, it just keeps going deeper and deeper with music. You'll never get to the bottom. well,
Chris Frasco: yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: so so when you start when you take on your first like you get hired to mix somebody's project, or was it mastering, or like, how did you sort of make that leap of faith from like, okay, I'm gigging, I'm a guitarist, or I'm gonna make it as a as an artist, I'm gonna be John Mayer or whatever, like, to wait, I could make a living engineering for other people and I will enjoy that and let's do this.
Chris Frasco: So the manager that stole my life savings, he did that right as my second album was about to come out. And
Kristen Ford: Okay.
Chris Frasco: that's what got me into audio engineering full time because basically the way he stole all this money from me was he forged contracts for an entire an entire six month tour. after my after my second record came out and he took his fee up front and disappeared and then as I'm starting to send stage plots out I start getting the emails back like that's a nice stage plot and all but we don't have you booked here and like no no no I I have a copy of my contract I'll send I'll send it over to you And the response was either that's our GM's name or our booking manager's name, but not his signature, or that's just a completely made up person. That's not that person does work here. So dude
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: steal this Yeah, he stole all that money from me by taking his fee up front. And he had all I mean, I had signed copies of every contract. I had been working with him for a year and he had gotten my music in front of some pretty powerful people. so I got kind of I I didn't feel like I had any reason not to trust him. So
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: yeah. So that was the point where it was like, okay, I was gonna go on tour for all this time. I still have to pay my musicians. They set their life aside, you know. So I had to I take take a loan and pay them. And now I have no money, now I'm in debt, paying New York City rent, and this is the only practical skill I have. is being
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: a musician and now an audio engineer. So that's how I got into
Kristen Ford: Wow, I'm so I Chris, I am so sorry that you got did like that. That's not right at
Chris Frasco: It's kind
Kristen Ford: all.
Chris Frasco: it's kind of the best thing that ever happened to me, because otherwise I would just be that guy who once had a song on the radio for like a little bit. You know, it's allowed me to do much bigger things, learn much more. Although it would really would have been nice to do that big tour and hopefully get my music in front of people, but whatever. You know. But yeah, I I think it
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: I think it's all worked out for the best. I think it's given me Given me the hard nose you need to be in the arts today.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well,
Chris Frasco: Does that make sense?
Kristen Ford: and I mean, yeah, and you understand from an artist perspective when they're looking at making a record, they've already spent so much money in the studio recording it. They've already spent money on the styling and the photo shoot. And they need to spend money on mastering now and then the manufacturing, and then they have to go on tour. And like you're understanding that, and you can be sort of a a steward of of those tough emotions as you're like the mastering is is so close to being the last step. how did you choose to move to Nashville and to kind of take your studio that you had the room all set up and then to just like uproot everything, potentially lose clients, How did that happen? Was it love? Was it a breakup?
Chris Frasco: It was it was
Kristen Ford: You're like, I gotta go.
Chris Frasco: neither. It was neither. It was it was my breakup with New York City. I think I I wasn't I wasn't a lifer. I was there for six years. My first three years, I loved it. My last three years, I was I was ready to be done. And
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: and in those last three years, so my first five years of New York, I was, you know, learning to be an audio engineering and then And then I was really spending all my time mixing and mastering, excuse me, recording and mixing other people's music. And in the last two years, I got into mastering. And the second the kind of the second I started doing that, I realized it was so in synchronicity with the way my brain works. That I love
Kristen Ford: Hm.
Chris Frasco: mixing, it's an artistic journey, it's it's a lot of fun. And you can light candles and have vibes and really get down to it. You know, but mastering is math. It's how are we going to make this the best it possibly can be? How are we going to tweak this so that it's sounds absolutely perfect on everything from a $100,000 sound system to a shitty little Bluetooth speaker? Like, and that
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: is that's kind of the way my brain works, is like thing yeah, just Kind of more, you know, what's in a C chord, C, E, and G, right? Like there's an answer. And so,
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: and even though mastering is also very artistic, you're you are kind of looking for a concrete answer. And so once I decided that that's the path I wanted to be on for the rest of my career, and I knew I was done with New York. And I mean, we're down to three music cities. It's really just New York, LA, and Nashville. And And Nashville.
Kristen Ford: Cheapest one. Like a mass hole. You're like, let's go.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. And Nashville had all these aging mastering engineers who were at the time I moved down here already in their 60s and 70s. And so I was thinking, wow, these guys are gonna retire. And by the time they retire, you know, hopefully I will have established my name enough that I can kind of inherit some of some of their market share as they retire. Most of them still haven't retired, by the way. Now they're in their eighties. And they're
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Good plan. Good plan.
Chris Frasco: God bless them, happy life, happy career. But yeah, I expected to inherit a large market share a long time ago.
Kristen Ford: Well, if if people don't understand like what mastering is, or I I think one of the one of the notes I wrote down was I can just use a plug-in and Suno is pre-mastered. So maybe just like the reasons why, and I keep mentioning Suno, I am super anti-AI and I don't think that's real music creation, but I think a lot of especially younger songwriters and people who are earlier in their career, it's still it's like, I just want it to sound finished. So I'll I'll plug in these prompts and that's that, right? But you know, I can use a mastering plug in to kind of make everything louder, wider. I was just listening to something that I had mastered and I was like, wow, the vocal sounds like complete shit. I was like, I totally fucked it up. I don't know what I don't know what I did, but so one of these knobs that I again, like, how does it make me feel? Maybe I thought it it sounded louder or sounded cooler, and then now I'm just like passively listening to it. I'm like, yeah, the The mix was way better than this master. I don't know what I'm doing with this plugin. So maybe just like why hire a mastering engineer or like what you might wanna listen to f in choosing a mastering engineer because it is one of those unique things where typically you just send your music off and then they send it back and you don't have to be in the same place. So you have options. But of course they should hire you.
Chris Frasco: Yes. Okay, I I love this question. so I I don't know anything about I don't know anything about AI mastering, but versions of it have been around for a long time. So before there was Suno or anything like that, there was Lander, which is like algorithmic mastering, I believe. It was it's this you upload your file and it gives you back a computer gener, you know, I don't know if it's AI AI, but it's algorithmic. Like the computer does it for you.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: and like you said, there's mastering plugins where it's all in one, like what is that one that's popular? What which one do you use?
Kristen Ford: It's in logic. I don't know. I just like updated my system settings and then it was like new button. Is it isotope?
Chris Frasco: Okay. There's I don't know why I can't think of it right now, but it's a very, very popular plugin. Yes, thank you. Yep. The Isotope plugin. It there's another name.
Kristen Ford: Okay. Yes. I'm a nerd too. I'm a nerd too. Sorry.
Chris Frasco: Good, good. It Isotope is the company that makes it. I can't think of what the actual plugin is, but you you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, the the I mean I think it's as simple, in some ways it's as simple as well, why should I listen to a real band when I could just listen to an AI band? You know? Why would you want a computer mastering your work rather than a real human being listening to your The art that you've created and saying, How can I make how can I deliver the most emotional impact? And you have a person absorbing your art. The the mastering engineer is the person, the first person who gets your mixes on fresh years, has never heard anything you've done before, and now they have a whole album of your art, and they get to take it in and say. Okay, I know I I know how to how to work with everything here and how to how to create cohesion. I know how to make sure it delivers the best emotional impact that it can, sonically. And yeah, yeah, it's there's what I always say about mastering is my job is to become your biggest fan while I'm mastering your.
Kristen Ford: Mm. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: And and then you're manipulating it saying, How can I make myself love this album to my maximum capacity to enjoy it? you know.
Kristen Ford: I mean when you put it that way, it's like it's it's kind of a no brainer. I think we moved to Nashville about the same time, but it's it's gone through a ton of growth and a ton of change. And w do you think that Nashville is still Music City? Is it are we in danger of Nashville becoming another New York that people just like can't afford. So it's going the scene is now going to be like Chattanooga or a bunch of little tiny scenes, Indianapolis. Like, or is it still really feeling vibrant, good place for musicians, especially because you just did 130 type five five spot shows. That's how many artists a night? So is that like close to like 500 different bands that you saw in one year?
Chris Frasco: Yeah, it's yeah, it's geez. So fifty, you know, fifty shows in a year times six acts in a night, what's that, three hundred something? Yeah, three hundred.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: So yeah, Yeah.
Kristen Ford: It's a village.
Chris Frasco: Well the the thing I can say without a doubt at all is that the talent here in Nashville is as good as I've ever seen it. Like the scene
Kristen Ford: What are
Chris Frasco: here is still very vibrant. However, we're I think we're all struggling. I think everybody, I mean, it's and it's not just musicians, everybody. The year and the economy we live in, most people are really struggling to get by. Right. So there are there are plenty of great artists who are getting priced out of Nashville. That's a reality. That's not like just people making shit up. No, that's the reality.
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: and I think I think the music industry like Nashville is music city because the industry is here, right? We have all these major label studios, we have, you know, an ASCAT building, we have a BMI building. The actual the the cog, right? The the real machinery is here. And that's why it it never won't be Music City, but I think there will be another East Nashville that pops up somewhere else, right? I mean Detroit is prime.
Kristen Ford: Sacramento.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. I mean Peoria. You can you
Kristen Ford: Okay.
Chris Frasco: can buy a you can buy a five thousand square foot church in Peoria for ninety nine thousand dollars. Are you telling me you wouldn't want to move a band there and just You know, put your money together and buy it outright and have a recording studio, a venue, a rehearsal space, have all that and not have to pay a mortgage.
Kristen Ford: I think you you have a point that it's like there's certain things in cities that just create an energy and create a momentum and I I know I was a better musician for eight years spent in Nashville and just being, you know, like, Hey, everybody's running real real fast and real strong here. Are you gonna keep up or are you gonna tap out, you know? But Do you think that that labels matter in twenty twenty six?
Chris Frasco: man, I don't know I don't know if I'm the right person to really answer that. Like I I feel like I'm very much a local character here. You know? I
Kristen Ford: Ha ha ha.
Chris Frasco: I I make my mark on a very local level.
Kristen Ford: Well, I guess I just asked that because I think we grew up in an era of Spin magazine and Rolling Stone and looking at the Billboard charts in the back of the Rolling Stone with the, you know, it's on sub pop or it's on fueled by ramen and like I like this kind of music.
Chris Frasco: good.
Kristen Ford: So it's on this label. And then I think the dream of the record deal, the more people that I talk to, and then my own experience just getting the more layers there are of Red tape, team, personnel, calendars, shifting commitments. Where is the return on investment? W what's the bandwidth for this, for that? artists like like River Shook leaving 30 Tigers and being like, I'm gonna self-release this record. in terms of bands that you booked and they're either gonna draw or they're not gonna draw. Granted it's a Tuesday night, but as a promoter, like how do you know who to book and who to say like, hey, keep keep building and hit me up in a in a couple months.
Chris Frasco: Yeah, I mean it it is it's such a wild thing with with draw, right? Like the the ideal show at a at a small to medium sized club like the five spot is everybody brings twenty five people. We have five or six acts, everybody brings twenty five people and the bar makes money, the musicians make money, we have a great night, it's elbow to elbow and we all have a great time. However, the reality of that, especially on a Tuesday night and in the economy we live in, is that number one, patrons don't have the money sometimes. Like that's something I've been running into a lot. People saying, like, man, I'm sorry, I just can't afford to go out tonight. And
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: you say, like, well, it's a five dollar cover, but there's an of course you're gonna go out and you're gonna buy drinks. And you know, you're out, you'll probably eat somewhere along the way, and that five-dollar cover turns into a one hundred dollar night pretty quickly. Right. So
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: even sometimes there was a show about two months ago where I felt like the bill was just ironclad. This was gonna be an elbow-to-elbow show. the short version is that. It was a terrible turnout. It was like probably thirty people in there or less. And and I'm looking around and the I mean the show was no joke, mind blowing. Everybody was so good. It should I mean it should
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: have been packed out. But it wasn't and I had I was absol I'm still absolutely baffled. So
Kristen Ford: Yeah. I mean I I think
Chris Frasco: I have
Kristen Ford: no, I think that's that's tight from the from the insider perspective of like getting all these emails, you know, of bands that wanna play.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. And and truly by the same by the same unpredictable standard. Sometimes you'll book somebody who's got nothing of what they're supposed to have. They have 200 followers on Instagram. They just released their first EP and they'll bring 75 people. And you're like, Wait, what? Really? Like I I was expecting you to bring 10 people or less just based on Where you were in you know, your career, and that's why I've got you opening the show and you know, this and that. And they packed the place, and you're like, All right, wow. Those great veteran musicians who played last week brought six of their friends and nobody else came to see them. You know, it's it's
Kristen Ford: yeah.
Chris Frasco: it's mind blowing. But it's also I think it's also a factor of it being on a Tuesday and you know, and It's Nashville, so there's always ten other shows.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Is that partially why you decided to shut it down? Was it just was kind of like taking up so much of your time and occasionally not you know, it's like you can do a labor of love, you know, nine out of ten times, but every once in a while, like you gotta eat, you gotta compensate yourself for all the time and energy. you know. Or do you think it's
Chris Frasco: Yeah. Well
Kristen Ford: just like other things you wanted to focus on?
Chris Frasco: The reason I decided to shut it down is because me me and the venue I it's like being in a relationship, right? Like thing things have been rocky between me and the venue and it finally got to a place where it just seemed like they they wanted to go a different way and I you know I I was tired of being you know kind of cross examined about like well that week with the tornado warning. Why did nobody show up to your show that week? It's like the tornadoes always
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: hit five points. Like, I can't I can't convince people out of their their right to self preserve, you know. So
Kristen Ford: it's the toughest industry and yet it's also like there are miracles happening every day and and we we obviously love it so we're all in it, but the promoters and the and the venue owners and the bands and the managers and the like we're all kind of blaming each other when it doesn't go well and eager to say, when when can you do this again when it is good? But I wanted to ask you about like spatial audio.
Chris Frasco: And we're all in this wait what?
Kristen Ford: sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.
Chris Frasco: was gonna say and like all of us down that chain of command are all kind of stuck in this never ending dysfunctional relationship as well. But we did we did
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: the very we did the very last show just last night and I mean yeah thank you.
Kristen Ford: my god. Wow. Congrats. Or or poor one out or I don't I don't know what to say, but wild timing.
Chris Frasco: No, it was it was the most friggin' magical evening of my life. It was so much fun. It was all my very best friends in the room, my very best friends on stage. It was everything I could have asked for and way, way more. Like it was unbelievable. Yeah.
Kristen Ford: That's so great. That's so great. And also like, yeah, the the five spot is a really special venue in a really special part of Nashville. And Nashville is a really special town. Not to just like over but it's it's kind of a one in a million kind of place. So go visit if you you're visiting Nashville. Go check out the five spot and buy a bunch of shit. 'Cause we wanna
Chris Frasco: Yeah, that's all do that.
Kristen Ford: keep them open. so yeah.
Chris Frasco: Yes. It's so important. It's so important to our local scene. The the OG basement, the five spot, like just those two places, honestly. That's I mean, that's the I feel like that's the genesis of our entire music scene, our independent music scene here in Nashville is those two rooms.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Totally. And even if you don't drink, just go buy tickets, buy like some food or or a a Diet Coke and and buy some merch from the bands and like pat yourself on the back 'cause that's you know, not all heroes were cape, but if everybody was like, you know what, I need to do this at least it's been three months in my hometown. I haven't been to a small show, I gotta go. Just go. Don't even if you don't even know the band, like just go and support and you might here one of the most incredible bands with like seven people in the room and you just don't know. I did wanna pivot
Chris Frasco: my god, can I respond to that?
Kristen Ford: Yes, please, please.
Chris Frasco: Okay, okay, I'll make it quick. Yes, I feel like this is so important. especially coming from Western Mass, where this very much isn't a thing, right? Like in Nashville, we're all we have such a community of artists, we all go out to support each other and we try to bring, you know, normal people who like music. But like in Western Mass, where we grew up, that's that's not a thing. People save their money all year and they go see Bruce Springsteen, they go see Taylor Swift. And a night of a concert is a once or twice a year thing that costs thousands of dollars. And it's not like there aren't local bands everywhere. There are local bands everywhere. Like, and if you make the effort to support them and just give them a shot, you'll probably find something you like.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. That just gave me chills. There's there's something about going to see live music. I like I've been someone who's moved around a bunch, I've toured a bunch, I've traveled a lot, I've been sleeping on couches or living in a van or like not rooted so much of my life. But if I go into a room where there's live music, suddenly I can deal. Suddenly I'm like, we're still in it. I we're the heart's still beating. We got this. even when they're bad sometimes, even a bad show,
Chris Frasco: Yeah.
Kristen Ford: you like there's something. Well, real quick on the audio end, I wanted to ask about like video games, spatial audio, people who have 3D headsets and maybe want to like experience. also I've heard that Apple TV, they want music that they sync to be spatially mixed. Is that anything that you've tried to dabble in, or is is surround and all that just over the top? Do you think it's something that artists should con consider getting a version of their record made asking for a friend, in spatial audio, or is it kind of like a fad, like a Blu-ray DVD that's just gonna
Chris Frasco: This is This is such a good question. This is such a good question. well, I mean, if you have the budget, right? Because that's what everything comes down to. If you have the budget to get an atmosphere on on your album, I don't know why you wouldn't do it if it's not going to strain your budget. However, I do believe that just a stereo mix. will be just fine. You know, you you're not going to lose listeners because you're missing an Atmos mix. I can absolutely say that with confidence. Atmos is cool. I got to sit in on when they remixed Rocket Man by Elton John, I got to sit on sit in on the the Atmos remix for that song. And it was freaking cool. It was I mean, it was in what was at the time the only real Atmos room in all of Nashville.
Kristen Ford: Hmm.
Chris Frasco: that was a pretty amazing experience.
Kristen Ford: Can you describe the room, like the gear or the layout?
Chris Frasco: It was I think they're really trying not to tamper. So they it wasn't like a a console or anything. It was mostly software, but the room itself was very sophisticated. Like the I don't know what the like count of drivers were, but I mean it was it was everywhere. Like the the walls were just basically
Kristen Ford: Like drivers being the speakers.
Chris Frasco: yeah. Yeah. They're I mean the walls were some sort of steel mesh and it would there were just you were completely surrounded in speakers. It was absolutely wild. And so yeah, they're they're they they of course want to stay true to the original recording. It's not it's not a an interpretive remix. It's a utilitarian remix of how can we make this How can we make this platform shine while still remaining true to the original sound of this record?
Kristen Ford: Hmm. That's cool. I wanna get it done. I
Chris Frasco: Yeah, yeah.
Kristen Ford: don't have the budget for it, but it's it sounds awesome. Who cares?
Chris Frasco: Well it's like it's like putting your record on vinyl, right? Like it's just such a cool moment in life.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Yeah. Like Just yeah, super I I I'm in love with technology and I also am really I think it's cool to be from like an analog and a r and like an older just like hands on place, which you learned to master via reading books and you were in
Chris Frasco: No no no no. I I learned to master
Kristen Ford: a course or
Chris Frasco: No, I learned to master by trial and error, honestly. I learned to master because I was in a situation where I had to do it for myself, for my own for my own record. after that guy stole all my money, I had to master
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: my second record myself. So at that point, you know, you've got time and no money. So again, I just kinda dove in. I dove in and I must have done thirty different masters for that record from very,
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: very bad to very very good. And I think I probably settled on one that was okay, you know.
Kristen Ford: Hmm. Wow.
Chris Frasco: I didn't the the first time you do it, even if even if you find a passion for it, you're never gonna be good at it the first time. So that first record, it is a a solid master. I can listen to it and be like, Okay, I'm not upset at this. But it definitely wasn't
Kristen Ford: Mm-hmm.
Chris Frasco: like, wow, I'm an expert mastering engineer. Record one, here we go.
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Well, and then just 'cause I do kind of love numbers and fancy things, how much do you think you've invested in your current mastering chain and setup and all of the gear? Which we won't post your home address, but like, you know, if people
Chris Frasco: Right.
Kristen Ford: are thinking, my gosh, it's like two hundred dollars to master a song, you know, or it's gonna be like a grand fifteen hundred to do my whole EP or my album, like, how much how much do you think You know, education and time
Chris Frasco: yeah.
Kristen Ford: you've invested aside.
Chris Frasco: Can I take some Xanax before I answer this? Like it's big
Kristen Ford: This segment sponsored by Music Pro Insurance.
Chris Frasco: Yeah. It's gotta be it's gotta be two hundred thousand dollars. It's gotta be. Between the room, the gear, the freaking cables. That's that's where the real money is made. The cables. Man, anytime you
Kristen Ford: Yeah.
Chris Frasco: have a recording studio or you buy a new piece of gear, you buy several pieces of gear, what you don't expect is the cost of the frickin' cables to connect it all to whatever else you have. Yeah.
Kristen Ford: Well, I also wanna just thank you for coming on the the podcast and using this platform Riverside that I use because you're a guy with two hundred thousand dollars worth of pristine gear and you're doing this on your phone in your kitchen. Like I just I'm sure it's gotta be tough. I I'm do you have like audiophile itis where when stuff it just like sounds bad, you're like, I gotta get out of here. Like if you're you
Chris Frasco: No, I can I can turn it on.
Kristen Ford: know, at a club or okay.
Chris Frasco: It's it's like you're saying, even when
Kristen Ford: Secret power you can turn it on or off.
Chris Frasco: there's a bad band, at least there's a band. You know. You get you gotta
Kristen Ford: Sure. Yeah.
Chris Frasco: be able to turn that side of yourself off and just be like, I love music. And here I'm I'm getting to have a conversation with you, getting to catch up with you. I don't care if it sounds terrible. I would much rather do this than not do it, you know?
Kristen Ford: Yeah. Well, Chris Frasco, congratulations on a very successful and very meaningful run at the five spot with your tight five Tuesdays and creating opportunities for so many other artists. That's amazing. And your new single is Get Me Out, which is that part of a an album that's coming
Chris Frasco: Yep, it's it's an EP of all the songs I wrote in the early days of Type Five Tuesday that have become kind of the songs that 'cause I play a set every week, you know, when I play those ones, they people sing along, which is awesome. And so it's called Tuesday Night Anthems.
Kristen Ford: It's got a great album cover too, so just run over to Bandcamp and purchase that. well, I have a segment on the show called Leave Me with a Smile. could do you have any funny stories or jokes you could leave us with today on the podcast?
Chris Frasco: Ooh, damn, putting me on the spot. let's see. I mean, the thing that has made me laugh so much during during the time of doing type five is I got to do it with Mark Robertson, who's a legendary Nashville bass player. And he does experimental electronic music. And every week I would try to come up with New alliterations to describe him by. And the only the only one I really repeated repeated a lot was that he's the Sultan of Synth. But I mean it's gone all over the place. I've called him the Paul Bunyan of Polyrhythms, the Archimedes of Automation, the the Sisyphus of Swort Sondo. Like, I've given that guy
Kristen Ford: Wow.
Chris Frasco: a million nicknames. And at this point the audience just rolls their eyes and groans and I just laugh inside forever.
Kristen Ford: Well, that's great. And it is it is really it was it was quite something to go from, you know, a rock and band to a singer songwriter where you wanna just like cry your eyes out to now weird bleep bloop circuit bendy. It just is was beautiful and a vibe and like nothing else. So if if y'all are trying to find Chris to work on your project, check out Masterfrasco dot com and Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Chris. I hope you have a great rest of your day.
Chris Frasco: Thank you, Kristen. Thank you for having me.
