Boundaries: Limiting Setting Necessary Ruptures Inviting Growth

WEBVTT
1
00:00:06.150 --> 00:00:11.099
Welcome to the Neurodiverse Couples Coaches Corner podcast, brought to
2
00:00:11.140 --> 00:00:16.519
you by Mental Health News Radio. This podcast features expert guests,
3
00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:22.399
including coaches and professionals specializing in autism and neurodiverse relationships.
4
00:00:23.179 --> 00:00:26.800
Our mission is to provide effective strategies that energize couples
5
00:00:27.219 --> 00:00:31.539
and inspire professionals working in this field. Proudly presented by
6
00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:37.530
Autism Spectrum Resources for Marriage and Family, LLC. Now here
7
00:00:37.549 --> 00:00:43.270
are your hosts, neurodiverse couples coaches and certified autism specialists, Dr.
8
00:00:43.310 --> 00:00:45.490
Stephanie C. Holmes and Barbara Grant.
9
00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:49.759
Welcome back to the Neurodiverse Couples Coaches Corner. I'm one
10
00:00:49.780 --> 00:00:52.520
of your hosts, Dr. Stephanie Holmes. I am an autism
11
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:55.990
researcher and advocate and in a neurodiverse marriage. And I
12
00:00:56.049 --> 00:01:00.090
am joined, as always, on this podcast by Barbara Grant.
13
00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:02.329
Will you remind our listeners who you are?
14
00:01:03.210 --> 00:01:03.969
Thanks, Stephanie.
15
00:01:03.990 --> 00:01:06.469
Always great to be here. And I'm Barbara Grant. I'm
16
00:01:06.510 --> 00:01:11.930
a neurodiverse couples coach. I am a certified autism specialist,
17
00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:15.829
master's in marriage and family therapy, and a biblical counselor
18
00:01:15.859 --> 00:01:18.400
for many years. So all of that and lots of
19
00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:24.060
lived experience from neurodiverse marriage, family of origin, and my children.
20
00:01:24.140 --> 00:01:27.969
So Yeah. PhD from the School of Hard Work.
21
00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:32.109
That's right. Live experience. That's the most important part. Well,
22
00:01:32.189 --> 00:01:35.120
since we're winding down this year and we're going to
23
00:01:35.140 --> 00:01:39.099
be coming into the new year, I haven't quite decided
24
00:01:39.299 --> 00:01:41.599
when Coach's Corner is going to air, but we are
25
00:01:42.099 --> 00:01:46.519
shaking things up in 2027. So it won't be the
26
00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:48.760
second Monday of the month as usual. It's either going
27
00:01:48.780 --> 00:01:51.599
to be kind of the beginning or the end. And
28
00:01:51.620 --> 00:01:56.079
we're moving to... seasons, we'll be taking a break except
29
00:01:56.099 --> 00:01:59.480
for coach's corner. So when we do January, February, March
30
00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:03.299
and neurodiverse Christian couples takes a break in April, there'll
31
00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.659
be one new one and that will be coach's corner.
32
00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.810
And then we'll take another break, you know, March, May, June, July,
33
00:02:08.819 --> 00:02:10.490
and we'll take a break August, but nope, there'll be
34
00:02:10.530 --> 00:02:13.469
a new coach's corner. So coach's corner will remain 12
35
00:02:13.469 --> 00:02:17.169
episodes next year. But the whole podcast in general will
36
00:02:17.189 --> 00:02:19.229
be kind of flipping a little bit different to actually
37
00:02:19.310 --> 00:02:21.610
move to what podcasts normally do, which is take a
38
00:02:21.650 --> 00:02:24.669
season and take some time off because I need time off.
39
00:02:25.349 --> 00:02:29.969
And we are in a season of transition in our life.
40
00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:33.169
So we will be offering less classes. So when you
41
00:02:33.229 --> 00:02:35.550
hear Dan and I talk about classes, you should jump
42
00:02:35.789 --> 00:02:38.090
on and get in because we're going to be doing
43
00:02:38.150 --> 00:02:40.789
less and we are onboarding no new couples in twenty
44
00:02:40.830 --> 00:02:44.379
twenty seven. unless there are extenuating circumstances so that we
45
00:02:44.409 --> 00:02:47.439
have the time for the clientele that we have just
46
00:02:47.460 --> 00:02:51.080
with our new life situation we find ourselves in. So
47
00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:54.080
what do you got going on in 2027, Barb?
48
00:02:55.060 --> 00:02:57.990
Well, probably taking overflow couples from you.
49
00:02:58.349 --> 00:03:00.069
Yeah, absolutely.
50
00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:03.229
And, you know, that's what I love about your practice
51
00:03:03.250 --> 00:03:05.250
with Dan is that you have a lot of other
52
00:03:05.289 --> 00:03:08.669
resources that you can point people to. And I'm fortunate
53
00:03:08.689 --> 00:03:11.719
to be one of those resources. So I am this
54
00:03:11.780 --> 00:03:16.819
fall starting to offer assessments for autism, ADHD, and though
55
00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:19.240
that's not a clinical diagnostic code that you can bill
56
00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:22.860
your insurance for, it is a good baseline with helping
57
00:03:22.939 --> 00:03:28.169
people understand how to see their strengths, optimize any weaknesses,
58
00:03:28.509 --> 00:03:32.610
and point them towards interventions for either therapy, if it's
59
00:03:32.650 --> 00:03:34.669
outside of what I can help them with, or couples
60
00:03:34.729 --> 00:03:38.830
coaching or individual coaching. I'm also going to be offering, perennially,
61
00:03:38.990 --> 00:03:40.469
I offer women's classes.
62
00:03:41.090 --> 00:03:42.550
And I have a Thursday.
63
00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:46.939
Every other Thursday, drop-in community, a support group, 90 Minutes,
64
00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:50.360
where we talk about anything and everything. And I teach
65
00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.199
for a little while, and then there are resources everybody gets,
66
00:03:53.300 --> 00:03:55.960
and then there's this amazing amount of discussion. So my
67
00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.439
website is always a great place to check in on
68
00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:03.180
what I'm offering. And usually winter, then again summer and fall.
69
00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.560
I have offerings for the ladies at this time. So
70
00:04:06.740 --> 00:04:12.310
neurotypical women or ADHD women that have neurodiversity.
71
00:04:11.629 --> 00:04:14.110
In their lives, in their marriages or in their families.
72
00:04:14.509 --> 00:04:16.889
And I've heard a lot of good things about your classes.
73
00:04:17.170 --> 00:04:20.529
So I get thank you for telling me about Barb
74
00:04:20.569 --> 00:04:23.540
and sending me to her, you know, because sometimes it's like,
75
00:04:23.579 --> 00:04:25.160
but I don't know if I want to do a
76
00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:28.500
class or a group. And especially this drop in one
77
00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.420
that you do. I've heard a lot of really great
78
00:04:30.459 --> 00:04:33.629
things about that. So I'm so glad you're there. as
79
00:04:33.670 --> 00:04:37.889
a resource with your lived and professional experience. Okay, so
80
00:04:38.029 --> 00:04:42.949
for today, we want to talk about boundaries, but I
81
00:04:42.970 --> 00:04:46.290
heard a definition from Dr. Kurt Thompson that I really like,
82
00:04:46.350 --> 00:04:48.230
and you and I have been kind of talking about,
83
00:04:49.410 --> 00:04:54.310
about a boundary is a limit setting rupture. And usually
84
00:04:54.329 --> 00:04:56.829
when we hear the word rupture, it's like, ooh, ruptures
85
00:04:56.870 --> 00:05:00.329
are bad things, avoid ruptures. So I want to invite
86
00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:04.800
everyone to listen to the Being Known podcast, Dr. Kurt
87
00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:09.459
Thompson with Pepper Sweeney. His season 11 is like 15,
88
00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:17.019
16 or 17 episodes devoted to rupture, repair boundaries and attachment.
89
00:05:17.670 --> 00:05:20.620
And I've listened to them all. And there's a lot
90
00:05:20.670 --> 00:05:24.269
beyond husband and wife. It's, you know, estranged children. It's
91
00:05:24.329 --> 00:05:28.250
a strange family for political or theological reasons. There's a
92
00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:31.689
bunch of different ways that we can have, um, rupture.
93
00:05:31.730 --> 00:05:33.750
But I want to talk about the three main ones.
94
00:05:33.970 --> 00:05:36.350
And then Barb and I are going to talk about boundaries.
95
00:05:36.470 --> 00:05:39.889
And she wrote the boundary chapter and uniquely us. So
96
00:05:39.949 --> 00:05:43.610
she's kind of like the boundary expert. But Dr. Thompson
97
00:05:43.649 --> 00:05:47.089
said there are three main types of ruptures. One is
98
00:05:47.250 --> 00:05:50.939
the benign rupture. It's just like daily miscommunication. Oops, I
99
00:05:50.980 --> 00:05:54.720
forgot something. It's not meant to harm. There was an impact,
100
00:05:54.779 --> 00:05:58.980
but it wasn't intentional. But you know, oh, he said,
101
00:05:59.509 --> 00:06:03.810
it can create some distress and frustration and disappointment. Whereas
102
00:06:03.870 --> 00:06:11.500
a toxic rupture is persistent, unaddressed, emotional abandonment, betrayals, abuse,
103
00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:16.500
unrepaired for many, for a long time. It forces a
104
00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:20.759
person into self-protection and self-protection is not enemy mode, but
105
00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:23.680
that's a whole nother discussion itself. But the one that
106
00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:25.420
we're going to talk about today is what he calls
107
00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.269
the limit setting rupture, which are boundaries. And I love
108
00:06:29.290 --> 00:06:34.009
that he defines boundaries are an opportunity to grow because
109
00:06:34.050 --> 00:06:36.269
if I'm the one setting the boundary, I'm going to
110
00:06:36.290 --> 00:06:39.209
get to grow and some self-advocacy. And if you are
111
00:06:39.250 --> 00:06:43.170
hurting me or harming me and I am limiting access
112
00:06:43.370 --> 00:06:47.189
to me, I'm inviting you to grow and we can
113
00:06:47.209 --> 00:06:50.290
have a better relationship when I set the limit and
114
00:06:50.329 --> 00:06:53.829
you do the growth and we can have a stronger relationship.
115
00:06:53.870 --> 00:06:58.629
That's like the very rudimentary But start us off in
116
00:06:58.670 --> 00:07:01.389
this conversation, because you and I hardly ever have a
117
00:07:01.430 --> 00:07:04.420
conversation that boundaries don't come up about the importance of
118
00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:05.959
boundaries and stay in your lane.
119
00:07:06.060 --> 00:07:06.779
It's everywhere.
120
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.779
And it's a lens to look through that's so helpful
121
00:07:09.819 --> 00:07:12.040
in life. It's one of the life changing lessons. And
122
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.500
I'm still learning about boundaries. So and something I want
123
00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:18.180
to say before I get started is the idea.
124
00:07:17.850 --> 00:07:20.550
That a boundary is a rupture. All right.
125
00:07:21.269 --> 00:07:25.290
Another way to think of the word rupture is also intervention. Right.
126
00:07:25.370 --> 00:07:25.670
Because.
127
00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:30.790
A boundary is now checking and balancing something that's not OK,
128
00:07:31.069 --> 00:07:32.449
something that's not healthy.
129
00:07:32.850 --> 00:07:33.089
Right.
130
00:07:33.149 --> 00:07:34.149
Which is a good thing.
131
00:07:34.490 --> 00:07:34.769
Right.
132
00:07:35.730 --> 00:07:38.740
Just like if I have some disease and there is
133
00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:41.939
a vaccine for it and I can take a cure
134
00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:44.319
that will rupture the effect of.
135
00:07:44.300 --> 00:07:45.980
The disease on my physiology.
136
00:07:46.379 --> 00:07:52.579
So we're intervening for benefit, for for godly principles, for.
137
00:07:52.550 --> 00:07:55.600
Health on every level. All right.
138
00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:00.399
So when we talk about, you know, the daily benign ruptures,
139
00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:03.620
that happens a lot. And I think that what you
140
00:08:03.670 --> 00:08:08.610
said about incremental ruptures that never get resolved and sort
141
00:08:09.129 --> 00:08:11.569
of broken glass swept under the carpet that is going
142
00:08:11.589 --> 00:08:12.889
to come through the carpet and cut.
143
00:08:12.790 --> 00:08:13.410
Your bare feet.
144
00:08:14.170 --> 00:08:19.709
And frustration and hardness of heart and bitterness over time
145
00:08:20.180 --> 00:08:23.829
is what can really build the need for boundaries and, um,
146
00:08:24.389 --> 00:08:28.209
cause a lot of dysregulated behavior on both sides.
147
00:08:27.970 --> 00:08:30.300
Of the neurodiverse relationship equation.
148
00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:35.679
You know, neurotypicals get Cassandra syndrome because they're just stressed
149
00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:39.720
and there's no resolution and there's no understanding of how
150
00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.659
this is going to get better. And the neurodiverse person
151
00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:47.610
is feeling maybe under attack and going deeper into shame
152
00:08:47.690 --> 00:08:53.120
and into hiding and into reactive behaviors. So, um, Boundaries
153
00:08:53.169 --> 00:08:56.240
are protective, at least for one person as they get
154
00:08:56.539 --> 00:08:59.080
on board with it, and they're meant to create safety.
155
00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:05.919
So I think the point about ruptures and repair, we're
156
00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:10.159
going to talk a lot about that today. But if
157
00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:16.100
it's something that you've set a boundary, but you feel
158
00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:19.440
bad about it, that's something I think we have to
159
00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:22.629
look at. Because if it's a healthy boundary, our habit
160
00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:26.539
of being an enabler or a rescuer or being guilted
161
00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:32.139
or shamed into cooperating, you know, or not checking bad behavior,
162
00:09:32.980 --> 00:09:38.929
that is not healthy guilt. That is a codependent tendency.
163
00:09:39.929 --> 00:09:43.350
And so there's nothing really to apologize if we're setting
164
00:09:43.370 --> 00:09:45.889
the boundary on ourselves, like I'm going to leave the room.
165
00:09:46.429 --> 00:09:49.289
And I'm sad if you're upset about that or feel abandoned.
166
00:09:49.309 --> 00:09:51.080
I'm not doing it to abandon you. I'm doing it
167
00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:54.659
to protect my heart and my mind. I've reached my
168
00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.340
limit of what I'm feeling safe with. um you know
169
00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:00.899
people are not going to like what we say sometimes
170
00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:05.019
but we don't have to apologize for doing the right
171
00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.659
thing and know that sometimes the loving thing is in
172
00:10:10.100 --> 00:10:13.139
the book bold love that dan allender wrote he talks
173
00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:19.659
about being willing to transgress on somebody else's unhealthy expectations,
174
00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:22.960
you know, on their codependent tendencies.
175
00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:25.879
Like I'm not cooperating with that anymore. And I don't
176
00:10:25.899 --> 00:10:28.399
have to apologize for that. They're going to feel bad,
177
00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:30.399
but that doesn't mean I'm doing the wrong thing.
178
00:10:31.179 --> 00:10:31.340
Yeah.
179
00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.429
And I think something I want to, um, flesh out
180
00:10:35.470 --> 00:10:41.350
a little bit is codependency is when my okayness is
181
00:10:41.389 --> 00:10:44.470
based on your okayness, right? So I can't be okay
182
00:10:44.529 --> 00:10:47.490
if you're not okay. But what I do see and
183
00:10:47.590 --> 00:10:53.730
specifically in my non-autistic female spouse is sometimes just empathy
184
00:10:53.789 --> 00:10:56.110
gets in the way. So maybe it's not about my
185
00:10:56.210 --> 00:11:00.389
okayness is dependent on your, so it's not codependency, but
186
00:11:00.450 --> 00:11:03.649
like it hurts me to feel like I could be
187
00:11:03.710 --> 00:11:05.769
hurting you. Like I've been in this marriage and I've
188
00:11:05.809 --> 00:11:09.090
been hurt so much. The thought of hurting you in
189
00:11:09.169 --> 00:11:12.769
any way, not in a codependent way, but like am
190
00:11:12.870 --> 00:11:15.169
I doing something that's hurtful or harmful? And so just
191
00:11:15.210 --> 00:11:17.919
kind of unwrapping some of that to say, wait a minute,
192
00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:21.080
this is to prevent harm. And we're going to talk
193
00:11:21.139 --> 00:11:24.639
today about the difference between something that's causing harm and
194
00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.639
something that may be hurt and stain and cause a
195
00:11:28.659 --> 00:11:31.320
little bit of discomfort because you don't usually grow when
196
00:11:31.340 --> 00:11:35.899
you're comfortable. It's usually discomfort that causes growth. And I've had,
197
00:11:36.110 --> 00:11:38.950
since we both work with families and marriages all over
198
00:11:39.009 --> 00:11:43.200
the world, And sometimes we I have heard some couples
199
00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:45.659
tell me based on their culture or based on their
200
00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:48.519
religious culture, there's no such thing as boundaries in marriage
201
00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:51.340
and family. You know, certain cultures are like if I
202
00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:53.820
call you at 9 p.m. and we're family, you know,
203
00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:56.059
you're supposed to do the whatever because that's what we
204
00:11:56.100 --> 00:11:59.980
do in our family or some religious teachings like you
205
00:12:00.019 --> 00:12:04.299
can't have boundaries. There are these expectations and entitlements. And
206
00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:07.710
so some even just kind of struggle cultural or religiously.
207
00:12:08.250 --> 00:12:10.029
about the concept of boundaries. And so I don't think
208
00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:13.059
that's codependency. It's like, that's a rule that's been like
209
00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.580
really ingrained. And then I think some people are just
210
00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:20.539
so empathetic. The thought of causing distress to someone somehow,
211
00:12:20.620 --> 00:12:24.100
if they're a highly sensitive person themselves can really make
212
00:12:24.139 --> 00:12:26.080
it difficult to set a boundary.
213
00:12:26.659 --> 00:12:27.940
Exactly. Exactly.
214
00:12:27.980 --> 00:12:32.250
It's a balancing act of weighing out the better for the,
215
00:12:32.490 --> 00:12:35.669
you know, the, the, the hurt or the change, change
216
00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:39.230
itself can be difficult for a neurodiverse person. And just
217
00:12:39.250 --> 00:12:43.690
because it's different doesn't mean it's bad. So discomfort is true.
218
00:12:43.769 --> 00:12:48.370
Discomfort leads us to more reliance on others or God
219
00:12:48.690 --> 00:12:50.450
in a healthy way and to growth.
220
00:12:50.970 --> 00:12:54.289
Because if we're comfortable, we're in stasis, we ain't going anywhere.
221
00:12:54.370 --> 00:12:58.070
And we all have that homeostatic tendency to want to
222
00:12:58.110 --> 00:12:59.590
just keep everything the way it is.
223
00:13:00.409 --> 00:13:01.909
So we have to work against that.
224
00:13:01.970 --> 00:13:06.120
And usually our life circumstances propel us forward, whether we're
225
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.200
interested in changing or not.
226
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:11.700
And boundaries don't change the other person because I hear
227
00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:14.320
that all the time. Stephanie, I set a boundary and
228
00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:16.980
it didn't work. And it's like, okay, your boundary is
229
00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:21.779
not about changing their behavior. It's about the access to you,
230
00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.809
what you're willing to do, not willing to do, invest in,
231
00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:27.750
happen to your body and your person and your space.
232
00:13:28.250 --> 00:13:32.190
And so that person may continue to do their behavior,
233
00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:36.169
but then you have to take more space, less access,
234
00:13:36.730 --> 00:13:40.009
more space. less access. And that is completely a result
235
00:13:40.110 --> 00:13:43.309
of the other person doing or not doing the thing
236
00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:47.110
that's hurtful or harmful to you, children or the relationship.
237
00:13:47.149 --> 00:13:50.720
And so where that becomes, I think, really difficult in
238
00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:54.960
a neurodiverse relationship is if the neurodivergent spouse is like,
239
00:13:54.980 --> 00:13:57.899
this is the routine and this is our pattern. And
240
00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:00.320
I'm used to having access to this person. I'm used
241
00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.919
to them doing abc and one two three i'm used
242
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:05.379
to having sexual access to their body every day and
243
00:14:05.419 --> 00:14:07.740
now that's going to disrupt my routine oh that's going
244
00:14:07.779 --> 00:14:10.580
to cause some problems that's not a reason to not
245
00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.750
have a boundary but i think you need to expect
246
00:14:13.909 --> 00:14:17.370
especially in a neurodiverse relationship that when you set a
247
00:14:17.409 --> 00:14:20.850
boundary change your routine or change access there's going to
248
00:14:20.889 --> 00:14:24.809
be dysregulation over that but that's that person's.
249
00:14:25.220 --> 00:14:29.379
Work to do yes their opportunity to grow yeah well
250
00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:32.000
um you know, in preparing for this, you and I
251
00:14:32.049 --> 00:14:33.730
came up with some notes. And one of the things
252
00:14:33.769 --> 00:14:35.269
was this, the framework.
253
00:14:35.629 --> 00:14:37.750
And I want to introduce that now, because I think
254
00:14:37.769 --> 00:14:39.889
that'll be helpful to keep in mind as we're talking
255
00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:43.730
about this. So the idea that a rupture of whatever
256
00:14:43.830 --> 00:14:46.090
kind of rupture it is, in this case, we're talking
257
00:14:46.149 --> 00:14:53.129
about boundary ruptures, leads to a time of discernment. Like
258
00:14:53.330 --> 00:14:57.600
there's a problem, like there's been a rupture. The discernment is,
259
00:14:58.100 --> 00:15:00.879
What do I do about this? Like what can be
260
00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:02.500
done about this? What are my options?
261
00:15:03.019 --> 00:15:06.419
And that leads to either communicating.
262
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.610
A boundary, establishing a boundary or a practice of safeguarding,
263
00:15:09.929 --> 00:15:13.129
which is a boundary. Or if I'm the one who
264
00:15:13.210 --> 00:15:15.870
is transgressed, maybe I want to reach out to repair.
265
00:15:16.169 --> 00:15:20.590
So boundary or repair after discernment. And then at some
266
00:15:20.649 --> 00:15:24.230
level comes responsibility. If I'm the one setting the boundary
267
00:15:24.309 --> 00:15:27.649
for myself, I have to hold that responsibility. And I
268
00:15:27.710 --> 00:15:28.909
have to abide in it.
269
00:15:29.009 --> 00:15:30.909
And live in it and adhere to that.
270
00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:34.970
If I have apologized for something and repaired, I still
271
00:15:34.990 --> 00:15:38.980
want to be responsible and own that, not blame shift
272
00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:46.320
in repairing, right? So rupture, discernment, boundary or repair, followed
273
00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:51.320
by responsibility. And that now is going to lead to
274
00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:56.519
a pattern of changed behaviors. Okay, because when somebody begins
275
00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.879
to take responsibility that maybe they didn't take before, the
276
00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:04.850
fruit of that, and maybe there's some repentance in the responsibility,
277
00:16:04.899 --> 00:16:08.690
the fruit of repentance is deeds, different deeds, different behaviors,
278
00:16:08.730 --> 00:16:13.250
different thoughts, all of that that's visible and externalized, an
279
00:16:13.409 --> 00:16:19.710
external expression of being more responsible. And when we have
280
00:16:19.830 --> 00:16:25.710
changed behavior that's ideally changed for the better, The possibility
281
00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:28.669
of reconciliation, which is the last piece of this framework,
282
00:16:28.769 --> 00:16:34.269
possible reconciliation, it opens the door to peace, to healing,
283
00:16:34.889 --> 00:16:41.149
to mutual growth and reconnection in a safer, more stable way.
284
00:16:41.529 --> 00:16:44.809
So again, rupture leads to discernment. What are we going
285
00:16:44.830 --> 00:16:49.750
to do about this? Set a boundary or repair. Take
286
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.799
responsibility seriously. If it's on my side of the fence,
287
00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:56.090
I can't make the other person take theirs. I'm going
288
00:16:56.110 --> 00:16:57.629
to change my behavior.
289
00:16:57.649 --> 00:17:02.509
All right. And then I am open to being reconciled.
290
00:17:02.990 --> 00:17:06.049
I'm not necessarily going to trust because trust has to
291
00:17:06.109 --> 00:17:09.150
be re-earned if I've been the one that's been hurt
292
00:17:09.329 --> 00:17:14.839
or abused. But trust is, you can rebuild trust. You
293
00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:17.839
can forgive and then work to rebuild trust and become
294
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:18.559
more connected.
295
00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.940
Yeah. And back to change behavior. Hopefully that's that change
296
00:17:22.980 --> 00:17:26.910
behavior hasn't become behavior management, but a changed heart and
297
00:17:26.930 --> 00:17:30.089
maybe change beliefs. As you were talking, this one couple
298
00:17:30.130 --> 00:17:31.769
comes to my mind when I used to have an
299
00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:35.829
office and we there was a therapeutic separation and we
300
00:17:35.849 --> 00:17:38.210
were about three months in and some of the behaviors
301
00:17:38.230 --> 00:17:41.019
were starting to change. And out of the man's mouth,
302
00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.460
he said, so how long do I have to do
303
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.539
this before she just comes home and we go back
304
00:17:45.579 --> 00:17:50.460
to business as usual? She said, may I be excused?
305
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.279
And I was like, you don't need my permission. And
306
00:17:52.299 --> 00:17:55.240
she's like, you'll be getting papers, you know, because what
307
00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:59.140
that said was, I'll play the game. I'll do the thing.
308
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:01.589
I'll do whatever I need to do to get access
309
00:18:01.609 --> 00:18:02.930
to you. But as soon as you get back in
310
00:18:02.950 --> 00:18:04.430
the house or I get back in the house, I
311
00:18:04.450 --> 00:18:07.349
can't remember who separated. We're going back to the old pattern.
312
00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:11.519
And that was not going to be good enough.
313
00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:16.700
Well, and that's why things also take time. You know, um, it, it,
314
00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.630
it's a long, long, lifelong process of discovering, Oh, I
315
00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:23.369
need boundaries or I have the option of boundaries and
316
00:18:23.890 --> 00:18:26.670
finding the support to begin to formulate those and to
317
00:18:26.730 --> 00:18:29.950
communicate them well, and then to hold to them and
318
00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:31.470
then to become safe in that.
319
00:18:31.670 --> 00:18:34.190
I don't want to violate other people's boundaries.
320
00:18:34.670 --> 00:18:34.930
Right.
321
00:18:35.509 --> 00:18:40.009
And, um, and just develop a confidence in your ability
322
00:18:40.029 --> 00:18:44.630
to self-protect with boundaries without inflicting pain and to be
323
00:18:44.670 --> 00:18:47.859
posting your speed limits way ahead of a problem, right?
324
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:50.039
I always love to talk about speed limits on the
325
00:18:50.299 --> 00:18:53.519
highways because they're up there, whether I'm speeding or not,
326
00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:57.099
the speed limits are posted. And again, I just realized
327
00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:00.039
in preparing for this, the speed limit doesn't tell me
328
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.450
what to do. It tells me what's gonna happen when
329
00:19:03.490 --> 00:19:06.859
I cross this limit, like I now am subject to
330
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.960
getting a ticket or a fine or being pulled over, right?
331
00:19:11.019 --> 00:19:12.720
The speed limit says, this is what we're going to
332
00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:13.740
do if you go faster.
333
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:15.160
Right. Yeah.
334
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:20.109
It's a boundary. It's a limit setting opportunity. So a lot,
335
00:19:20.349 --> 00:19:22.630
I've even had some of my black and white thinkers
336
00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:26.250
believe that the whole point of coaching and counseling is
337
00:19:26.289 --> 00:19:29.069
to create a relationship where there is never another rupture.
338
00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:32.650
And that's not sustainable. That's never going to happen. I mean,
339
00:19:32.670 --> 00:19:34.960
I'm not saying like, yes, you have permission to disappoint,
340
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:39.019
hurt and frustrate your spouse. But that's not the point.
341
00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:40.980
And even in landscapes of the soul, which you and
342
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:43.240
I have both read by the holes clause, it talks
343
00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:47.650
about that, that little daily benign ruptures. Every time we
344
00:19:47.730 --> 00:19:50.230
have a rupture, but we repair it, we're building our
345
00:19:50.269 --> 00:19:55.599
relationship muscle. We're building the us, our team. We're showing
346
00:19:55.650 --> 00:19:58.150
we can do it. We're showing our brains. We're showing
347
00:19:58.190 --> 00:20:00.299
each other like we're in it and we're still going
348
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.980
to do the work. And a rupture could be something
349
00:20:03.099 --> 00:20:05.400
as small as like, you know, hey, I wanted you
350
00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:07.279
to come over and look at this painting I was
351
00:20:07.339 --> 00:20:09.950
doing and you ignored me. It could just be something
352
00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:12.910
like that. And you stayed on your phone and was like, uh-huh, uh-huh.
353
00:20:13.349 --> 00:20:16.309
And so that could be a small rupture. That's like
354
00:20:16.349 --> 00:20:18.670
one of those benign ruptures. Now, a thousand of those
355
00:20:18.710 --> 00:20:21.390
a day is going to create a toxic rupture. But,
356
00:20:21.430 --> 00:20:25.480
you know, getting to those little things and seeing a
357
00:20:25.579 --> 00:20:29.059
rupture as a potential to grow our relationship is a
358
00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:31.619
different way of seeing it too. So you can't avoid
359
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:33.079
ruptures in your relationship.
360
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:36.869
Well, and you know, as you're saying that, I also
361
00:20:36.910 --> 00:20:40.779
want to say that When I started to learn about boundaries,
362
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:45.099
I was like setting boundaries for everything. You know, every
363
00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:47.619
little bump, I was like, okay, I need a boundary.
364
00:20:47.660 --> 00:20:50.799
I need to establish a limit here. And that is
365
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.200
what happens when you have had like no boundaries.
366
00:20:54.769 --> 00:20:56.349
Now you want to have a boundary for everything.
367
00:20:57.009 --> 00:20:59.569
And really what I think I saw in my life
368
00:20:59.750 --> 00:21:01.890
and I see in other people's lives is there's a
369
00:21:02.869 --> 00:21:05.890
reckoning of, well, what are the most important limits that
370
00:21:05.930 --> 00:21:08.099
I need to set? You know, what are the big,
371
00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:10.440
put the big rocks in first. Like, what are the
372
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:13.910
big issues that I really are taking the most energy,
373
00:21:13.990 --> 00:21:17.349
the most hurtful, the most difficult. And then when you
374
00:21:17.369 --> 00:21:20.809
get a sense of safety with those, then you have
375
00:21:20.849 --> 00:21:26.049
a little more bandwidth or flexibility to, you know, love
376
00:21:26.089 --> 00:21:28.650
covers a multitude of sins. Like, okay, I'm just not
377
00:21:28.670 --> 00:21:31.059
going to say anything about that little bump there because
378
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:35.220
it's not a big deal relative to other deals that
379
00:21:35.259 --> 00:21:35.619
are bigger.
380
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:36.000
Right.
381
00:21:36.019 --> 00:21:39.579
Right. So I think there's that that comes with learning
382
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.900
to walk in boundaries and learning to not feel guilty
383
00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:47.200
about them and how they begin to restore balance and
384
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.839
safety for everybody, right? And a lot of neurodiverse husbands
385
00:21:50.900 --> 00:21:54.400
I work with and wives, they say, I just want
386
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:56.460
to know what the rules are. I just want to
387
00:21:56.500 --> 00:21:59.420
know what they do and don't want. And a lot
388
00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:05.559
of neurotypicals have been over-functioning, over-giving, And believing that their
389
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:10.019
husband is just able to read their mind and divine
390
00:22:10.059 --> 00:22:12.009
that they're overfunctioning.
391
00:22:12.109 --> 00:22:13.809
And they're not. They're not able.
392
00:22:13.869 --> 00:22:17.569
Nobody can read each other's minds, especially if a neurodiverse
393
00:22:17.630 --> 00:22:21.529
person has some limited theory of mind or, you know,
394
00:22:21.769 --> 00:22:26.160
has their own particular view on things. So it's so
395
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.920
much more important to gently but consistently understand you know, say, Hey,
396
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.039
that didn't work for me.
397
00:22:32.059 --> 00:22:33.940
This is what would work for me instead.
398
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:36.759
And not attack in the way I have the, in
399
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:40.440
the book, there's the boundary love sandwich that I wrote and,
400
00:22:40.569 --> 00:22:43.829
you know, like say something affirming, then call them out
401
00:22:43.910 --> 00:22:46.890
on something then and talk about your feelings, not what they're,
402
00:22:46.910 --> 00:22:50.930
how they're a holy mess, say something affirming, suggest or
403
00:22:50.990 --> 00:22:54.029
invite them to something different and say something affirming.
404
00:22:54.049 --> 00:22:56.259
Right. All right.
405
00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:59.430
And and then when you've laid the boundary and it's
406
00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:02.809
not because boundaries have to be communicated and they can't
407
00:23:02.849 --> 00:23:07.009
be internal, just internal, which just really causes me a
408
00:23:07.029 --> 00:23:09.650
lot of hurt in my heart hearing about so many
409
00:23:09.690 --> 00:23:13.000
people that are becoming estranged from their families. When an
410
00:23:13.059 --> 00:23:15.759
adult child just like there was no boundary issue, there
411
00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.319
was like, I'm sorry, I'm gone now. And you don't
412
00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:21.200
have no access to me again. I never said, hey,
413
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.019
this is behavior that's going to cause a problem. And
414
00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:25.640
if you don't stop it, I'm going to take some
415
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.799
distance from you. It's like one day there's return to sender.
416
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.480
One day there's a disconnected phone. And that's not a boundary.
417
00:23:33.990 --> 00:23:36.750
That's not I mean, unless there's physical abuse and or
418
00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:40.109
sexual abuse and you've really got to create that space
419
00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:43.190
from that person. It's like, well, I'm not even it's
420
00:23:43.230 --> 00:23:44.890
like you should have known you should have known the
421
00:23:44.930 --> 00:23:47.539
things that were hurting me. And it's like, well, where
422
00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:51.119
was the communication and the opportunity of growth? Let's go
423
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:54.269
to counseling together. Let's talk about this with a third party.
424
00:23:54.630 --> 00:23:56.329
These three behaviors, I'm not going to be able to
425
00:23:56.369 --> 00:23:58.569
be relationship with you if you keep doing this to me,
426
00:23:58.650 --> 00:24:01.289
mom or dad or daughter or son. It could go
427
00:24:01.309 --> 00:24:04.920
the other way, you know, and there's just not the communication.
428
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:07.799
So you made a huge point. Whatever my boundary is,
429
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:09.420
it's about me, what I will or will not do.
430
00:24:09.460 --> 00:24:13.089
But then I need to communicate it, truth and love.
431
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:17.440
And then if it's violated, what are you, what are
432
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:20.279
the consequences of that going to be? And it's not punishment.
433
00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:23.799
It's usually less access to me or how much time
434
00:24:23.859 --> 00:24:25.420
I'm going to be able to share with you if
435
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.619
this behavior or whatever continues.
436
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:29.289
Yeah.
437
00:24:29.349 --> 00:24:34.670
Whatever the safer arrangement is for what, whatever the circumstance,
438
00:24:34.710 --> 00:24:37.930
it could be finances. It could be who's doing cooking,
439
00:24:38.329 --> 00:24:42.240
who's doing laundry, you know, um, if they're children, you
440
00:24:42.779 --> 00:24:45.660
don't want the kids to be suffering from anything that
441
00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:51.220
is a consequence unduly. But yeah, Lisa Turkhurst has a
442
00:24:51.259 --> 00:24:54.660
book called Good Boundaries and Good Vies. And she talks
443
00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:58.440
about boundaries as loss of access. And that, you know,
444
00:24:58.549 --> 00:25:01.289
if you want love, and she uses the temple of
445
00:25:01.369 --> 00:25:04.410
the old temple of the Israelites, the worship where the
446
00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:06.710
Holy of Holies, the only guy who could go in
447
00:25:06.809 --> 00:25:08.829
one time a year was a high priest. And And
448
00:25:08.869 --> 00:25:11.049
only then with a rope tied around his foot, because
449
00:25:11.089 --> 00:25:15.079
if he wasn't perfectly pure to come before the Lord
450
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:17.359
and was struck dead by the presence, they'd have a
451
00:25:17.420 --> 00:25:18.960
rope to be able to haul him out of there
452
00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:20.380
because only he could go in.
453
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:22.549
So the idea is if you.
454
00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:25.490
Want level 10 access, then you have to have level
455
00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:26.349
10 responsibility.
456
00:25:26.930 --> 00:25:30.210
If you've done any talk about the tabernacle or the temple,
457
00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.029
there's all kinds of boundaries as to who went in, where,
458
00:25:33.430 --> 00:25:37.269
what their preparation was, and there were severe consequences. There
459
00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:38.509
were some consequences, right.
460
00:25:38.809 --> 00:25:42.630
So, you know, if you want, right, if they want
461
00:25:42.670 --> 00:25:45.720
level five access, okay, they need to be level five responsible.
462
00:25:45.819 --> 00:25:49.839
And it's not a transactional way, but it's about preserving
463
00:25:49.940 --> 00:25:56.079
health and for the long haul, because any short-term crisis
464
00:25:56.099 --> 00:25:59.190
situation People can flex way out of their comfort zone
465
00:25:59.309 --> 00:26:01.849
and do things that they would never do. But that
466
00:26:01.890 --> 00:26:06.329
needs to be short term. That's not sustainable. And we
467
00:26:06.390 --> 00:26:12.880
as good stewards have to be wise about our bandwidth emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, financially.
468
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:17.819
Because, you know, we're limited resources. God is not, but
469
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:18.480
we are.
470
00:26:19.089 --> 00:26:22.589
And, you know, especially we come from a family of
471
00:26:22.710 --> 00:26:25.509
origin where the pattern of behavior was everybody's all over
472
00:26:25.549 --> 00:26:28.869
the place and everybody can do whatever they want and flexes. And, yeah,
473
00:26:28.890 --> 00:26:30.609
we all yell at each other and then we don't
474
00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:32.049
talk to each other for two weeks.
475
00:26:32.609 --> 00:26:33.549
But that's how we are.
476
00:26:33.910 --> 00:26:36.450
Well, that's a lot of energy for not a lot
477
00:26:36.490 --> 00:26:39.970
of stability or peace or, you know, guarding the heart
478
00:26:40.029 --> 00:26:44.240
and mind and all the aspirations that are shown to
479
00:26:44.299 --> 00:26:46.119
us in the Bible of what we should be yearning
480
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:50.880
and living towards as Christians. And it's, you know, we
481
00:26:50.900 --> 00:26:52.720
can know it in our head, but until we start
482
00:26:52.819 --> 00:26:56.539
living it out and living out the peace and receiving
483
00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:59.660
the peace in how we live and how we bring
484
00:26:59.700 --> 00:27:03.970
that peace to others, that's when it starts having the benefits, right?
485
00:27:04.009 --> 00:27:05.730
That's the dividends it pays on the.
486
00:27:05.690 --> 00:27:09.470
Back end for the effort and challenge it's going to
487
00:27:09.529 --> 00:27:11.849
take to make these changes.
488
00:27:11.950 --> 00:27:13.269
You know, it's an investment.
489
00:27:14.230 --> 00:27:17.910
Because if I've been over-functioning in relationships, And now I'm
490
00:27:17.930 --> 00:27:19.980
going to tell someone I'm going to be doing less
491
00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:22.700
because I was doing more than I should have to
492
00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:26.440
begin with. Which overfunctioning is not accommodations, which we should
493
00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:30.579
probably do a show on one day about accommodations versus
494
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.720
ableism and enabling because we don't want to enable.
495
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:35.079
Let's do that.
496
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:36.480
One.
497
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:39.480
Because if I've been overfunctioning for you, you are, of course,
498
00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:41.619
not going to like it when I say, hey, I'm
499
00:27:41.660 --> 00:27:42.339
stepping back.
500
00:27:42.859 --> 00:27:42.980
Yeah.
501
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:45.380
Hey, I'm not going to be able to help do
502
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:48.539
that anymore because it's hurting my health or taking my
503
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.269
time or I'm not getting to do the things that
504
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:52.960
I would like to do. So I'm going to step
505
00:27:53.009 --> 00:27:54.680
back and I'm going to let you do X now.
506
00:27:55.170 --> 00:27:57.269
I'm going to let you step up.
507
00:27:57.390 --> 00:27:59.569
Let you find support for that in your life.
508
00:27:59.589 --> 00:27:59.789
Right.
509
00:28:00.190 --> 00:28:02.690
Right. And I'm no longer going to be that executive lobe.
510
00:28:04.150 --> 00:28:04.390
Right.
511
00:28:04.789 --> 00:28:06.869
I'm not your flirtation device. Exactly.
512
00:28:07.069 --> 00:28:11.750
Absolutely. Expect that's going to cause dysregulation. If someone is like,
513
00:28:11.789 --> 00:28:16.509
it feels like you're taking something away and being mean,
514
00:28:17.069 --> 00:28:19.789
but it's kind of the same principle as when you're,
515
00:28:20.630 --> 00:28:22.490
I don't mean this to be disrespectful or sound ugly,
516
00:28:22.710 --> 00:28:24.839
but like when you're training like a toddler or a
517
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.900
child and it's like, no, you cannot have ice cream
518
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.720
for breakfast. I know you want ice cream for breakfast.
519
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:32.259
It would be super fun to have ice cream for breakfast.
520
00:28:33.029 --> 00:28:34.430
but we're not going to have ice cream for breakfast.
521
00:28:34.470 --> 00:28:37.390
We're going to eat. These are your options, right? And
522
00:28:37.450 --> 00:28:43.259
so there's going to be some unhappiness there, or maybe it's,
523
00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:46.440
you know, the child has decided or the teenager, I
524
00:28:46.460 --> 00:28:49.480
should have dessert every day. And you're like, well, dessert
525
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.420
is not an entitlement. We're not going to have a
526
00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:54.279
dessert every day. We'll have them on occasion. And after
527
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.980
you've eaten a good meal, that is a boundary that
528
00:28:57.349 --> 00:29:00.470
for the opportunity of growth, for the opportunity of saying,
529
00:29:00.509 --> 00:29:03.430
we're learning better nutrition. We need to make good choices.
530
00:29:03.910 --> 00:29:06.240
It's not being mean or controlling, but you know, let's
531
00:29:06.259 --> 00:29:08.640
just say it's a split situation. And I go to
532
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:10.420
dad's house and I get it every day. And I
533
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.579
come home to mom and she's not giving it to
534
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.380
me every day. Well, of course those things are going
535
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:18.990
to make somebody upset, but that's not causing harm to say,
536
00:29:19.049 --> 00:29:20.849
I'm not going to be able to do that anymore.
537
00:29:20.930 --> 00:29:22.690
I need to step back or no, that's not how
538
00:29:22.730 --> 00:29:25.170
this is going to operate. But to the black and
539
00:29:25.190 --> 00:29:28.259
white thinker, it's like you are tit for tat. You
540
00:29:28.420 --> 00:29:32.019
are now punishing me versus I'm just trying to back
541
00:29:32.099 --> 00:29:35.390
down and not do as much as that I have
542
00:29:35.430 --> 00:29:35.950
been doing.
543
00:29:36.750 --> 00:29:39.970
So let's talk about this in the context of we were.
544
00:29:40.150 --> 00:29:43.450
before we went on, we talked about PDA as well
545
00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:48.789
as RSD. So PDA is pervasive demand avoidance or it's
546
00:29:48.829 --> 00:29:52.420
known by a few other things. And RSD is rejection
547
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:53.660
sensitive dysphoria.
548
00:29:54.220 --> 00:29:55.160
And I think.
549
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:58.619
Both of us agree now in our professional and spiritual
550
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:04.549
work that those are kind of secular, recent labels for
551
00:30:04.890 --> 00:30:10.390
a dynamic that is apparent and true, but the explanation
552
00:30:10.509 --> 00:30:14.930
of these things is very significantly different. And you and
553
00:30:15.009 --> 00:30:19.490
I are both seeing that RSD, rejection-sensitive dysphoria, first of all,
554
00:30:19.670 --> 00:30:21.099
everybody experiences it.
555
00:30:21.230 --> 00:30:26.430
It's not exclusive to a neurodivergent person.
556
00:30:26.970 --> 00:30:31.279
They may be more distressed in a moment of rejection
557
00:30:31.339 --> 00:30:34.349
because of many factors in their life, which have to
558
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:38.029
do with a lifelong sense of being maybe a little
559
00:30:38.089 --> 00:30:41.230
out of phase with some things or a super sensitive,
560
00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:43.670
traumatized neurology.
561
00:30:43.890 --> 00:30:44.569
Right.
562
00:30:44.970 --> 00:30:49.349
And they're more easily triggered and more easily self-protecting going
563
00:30:49.390 --> 00:30:53.619
into flight or freeze versus, you know, being able to
564
00:30:54.140 --> 00:30:57.500
ride it out. Same with PDA, you know, that's a
565
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:01.279
more assertive fight against don't tell me what to do.
566
00:31:01.339 --> 00:31:05.930
I'm not going to do that. So what we, what we.
567
00:31:05.789 --> 00:31:10.950
Understand is there are these sensitivities in neurodivergent people. That
568
00:31:11.029 --> 00:31:17.289
doesn't mean that you accommodate their sensitivities by not having.
569
00:31:17.069 --> 00:31:21.259
Any restrictions or boundaries or rules or limits. That's, that's
570
00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:23.259
not healthy. All right.
571
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.410
And You and I both agree that a neurodivergent brain
572
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.700
is still an adaptable, evolutionary, evolving, maturing brain.
573
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:35.359
It is not five forever, right?
574
00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:40.319
And ideally, there is interest, curiosity, and cooperation on the
575
00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:44.309
neurodiverse person's part to explore their options. It may not
576
00:31:44.390 --> 00:31:47.769
be until they're really stuck and angry and suffering and
577
00:31:48.490 --> 00:31:51.430
needing to find a new way that they will find
578
00:31:51.470 --> 00:31:54.319
the new way. But it's not for you to condemn
579
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.500
them and blame them and shame them. Stepping back and
580
00:31:57.539 --> 00:31:59.279
saying that doesn't work for me. I'm going to leave
581
00:31:59.299 --> 00:32:04.180
the conversation if I don't feel respected is not blaming
582
00:32:04.220 --> 00:32:06.539
and shaming. That's just saying how I feel and what
583
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.099
I'm going to do. And if they don't like it
584
00:32:09.140 --> 00:32:12.559
and if they say you're abandoning me and I feel rejected.
585
00:32:12.099 --> 00:32:13.940
And you just don't want to listen and care.
586
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:20.660
Well, all right, that's a parasympathetic meltdown reaction that they're
587
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:21.839
throwing it all at you.
588
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:26.220
You don't have to receive that. And that's not your truth.
589
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:31.359
That's their accusation. And you don't have to participate with that.
590
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.329
That's not a boundary that they're setting. That's not a
591
00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:37.769
healthy ask that they have. And that's not taking any
592
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:41.869
ownership on their part of the behavior that they're doing that.
593
00:32:41.809 --> 00:32:43.430
Is causing you now to leave the room.
594
00:32:43.450 --> 00:32:44.509
Right.
595
00:32:44.710 --> 00:32:44.950
Yeah.
596
00:32:45.349 --> 00:32:45.589
Yeah.
597
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:48.680
I get asked by wives a lot, you know, how
598
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.880
do I say this or word this in a way
599
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.980
like to guarantee there's no dysregulation? And I've kind of
600
00:32:54.019 --> 00:32:57.119
joked as like, you can say it naked and smiling
601
00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:02.559
and singing it. And you're not responsible for the dysregulation.
602
00:33:02.619 --> 00:33:05.099
You are responsible for speaking the truth and love. You
603
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:08.859
are responsible that, you know, I'm telling you what this is,
604
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:11.559
you know, doing to me and setting my boundary, but
605
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:15.240
you're not responsible for, for the response. And if it's
606
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:17.279
something where you don't feel safe, then you need to
607
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:20.640
talk to someone about it as a safety thing versus
608
00:33:20.660 --> 00:33:25.039
if it's discomfort with their dysregulation. Sometimes you have to stand,
609
00:33:25.099 --> 00:33:27.440
I say, stand in the face of the lion and
610
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:30.680
don't let the person back you down because Dave Glick,
611
00:33:30.740 --> 00:33:34.400
a colleague of ours says a neurodivergent person can weaponize
612
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.789
their dysregulation. If dysregulation gets me out of doing something
613
00:33:37.849 --> 00:33:40.400
I don't want to do, We've kind of gotten a
614
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.299
pattern together. You asked me for something. I get big
615
00:33:43.339 --> 00:33:46.039
or scary or I disappear for three days. You don't
616
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:48.240
ask me to do that again. And that was kind
617
00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:51.960
of a reward. It was rewarding of that behavior. And
618
00:33:51.980 --> 00:33:54.400
a second thing I want to talk about that happens
619
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:57.359
a lot is the person will say, you know, Dr. Stephanie,
620
00:33:57.380 --> 00:33:59.960
I want to tell you, you know, my spouse shamed me.
621
00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:03.059
I was like, OK, well, let's talk about shaming and
622
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:08.260
blaming versus you felt shamed. So if she said, you know,
623
00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:12.030
you worthless piece of blah, blah, blah, you always do that. Oh,
624
00:34:12.110 --> 00:34:17.530
that's shaming and blaming. That's abusive. That's not great. So,
625
00:34:17.670 --> 00:34:19.429
but if I say, you know, we need to talk
626
00:34:19.489 --> 00:34:22.750
about this behavior that I'm seeing you do. I'm not
627
00:34:22.829 --> 00:34:25.230
okay with it. And I don't want that to happen
628
00:34:25.269 --> 00:34:28.219
to me. And now you feel shame about that. I
629
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:30.900
did not cause the shame in you.
630
00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:31.659
Right.
631
00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:35.050
I brought up something that's hurting me. And the fact
632
00:34:35.090 --> 00:34:38.409
that you feel shamed, if it's healthy shame that says, oh,
633
00:34:38.449 --> 00:34:42.010
my goodness, I need to do better. Healthy shame. But
634
00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:44.570
if it's I'm so bad, you just change. You're never
635
00:34:44.610 --> 00:34:47.150
going to be satisfied. I'm a terrible husband. It goes
636
00:34:47.190 --> 00:34:51.139
to toxic shame. She's not shaming you or making you
637
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:56.059
feel that way. That's intentional work. That's the rejection sensitivity dysphoria,
638
00:34:56.500 --> 00:35:00.139
which while it exists. we believe you can grow through.
639
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.579
Some of our colleagues would say, no, it's like a thing.
640
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:03.940
You're just going to have it for the rest of
641
00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:06.989
your life and just be careful and walk to, I,
642
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:09.949
if you've got to walk tiptoes and eggshells, I'm not
643
00:35:09.989 --> 00:35:10.829
walking eggshells.
644
00:35:11.369 --> 00:35:13.309
None of our faith-based colleagues say that.
645
00:35:13.429 --> 00:35:16.170
Yeah. Yeah. Not the faith-based ones at all. Cause we
646
00:35:16.190 --> 00:35:18.380
believe you can grow. We believe it's in it.
647
00:35:18.590 --> 00:35:20.949
Oh, the Holy Spirit. I mean, all things are possible
648
00:35:20.969 --> 00:35:23.429
through Christ who gives us strength. So, so what you're
649
00:35:23.489 --> 00:35:25.489
saying is something else that.
650
00:35:25.409 --> 00:35:30.940
Kurt Thompson talked about that, Sometimes a boundary, it might
651
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:33.420
seem like a rupture, but what it's really doing is
652
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:40.550
exposing a subterranean rupture, a problem that has been there
653
00:35:40.829 --> 00:35:45.090
all along. And now when you're calling out, saying no,
654
00:35:45.110 --> 00:35:49.030
a limit for that, now the problem that really is
655
00:35:49.110 --> 00:35:52.070
the problem comes and presents itself.
656
00:35:52.710 --> 00:35:55.219
And, you know, It is what it is.
657
00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:58.820
And the whole idea of boundaries being corrective and protective
658
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:02.389
is that we are made by God to mature.
659
00:36:03.090 --> 00:36:06.269
And the arena of marriage is the primary.
660
00:36:06.590 --> 00:36:12.590
That and parenting will humble and mature anyone who's interested
661
00:36:13.010 --> 00:36:13.579
in doing that.
662
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:14.119
Right.
663
00:36:14.539 --> 00:36:17.340
So, you know, being able to welcome it and be
664
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:21.619
curious and delivery does matter. By the way, I'm a
665
00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:26.869
really big fan of processing my thoughts in writing first,
666
00:36:27.989 --> 00:36:30.050
getting it clear if I have to feed it up
667
00:36:30.070 --> 00:36:33.889
to chat GPT or something to hone it and distill
668
00:36:33.949 --> 00:36:37.519
it from, you know, 5,000 words down to 50.
669
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:38.960
Yes, use the tools.
670
00:36:39.659 --> 00:36:42.840
And then putting it in a text with little heart
671
00:36:42.860 --> 00:36:46.559
emojis in the right places and sending it in writing
672
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:47.599
so that it's not.
673
00:36:47.420 --> 00:36:49.260
A face-to-face confrontation.
674
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:54.139
I hear from so many neurodiverse people that they would
675
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:57.469
much rather receive something in writing that's hard for them
676
00:36:57.530 --> 00:37:01.849
to receive and be able to process it offline and
677
00:37:01.929 --> 00:37:05.690
think about it and, you know, talk to somebody before
678
00:37:05.730 --> 00:37:09.210
they explode at something their partner has said because their
679
00:37:09.230 --> 00:37:12.690
partner has verbally come and said, okay, now, from now on,
680
00:37:12.750 --> 00:37:15.289
this is what I'm going to do because that's confrontational,
681
00:37:15.309 --> 00:37:18.940
the face-to-face, right? We have these wonderful little phones that,
682
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:21.340
you know, with emojis and we can make it soft
683
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:24.599
and encouraging and check our tone because we do want
684
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.820
to speak the truth and love, not, you know, fire
685
00:37:27.940 --> 00:37:32.559
off a Molotov cocktail and reactivity.
686
00:37:32.699 --> 00:37:32.960
Right.
687
00:37:33.139 --> 00:37:35.280
You know, because that's not loving.
688
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:39.940
It's not a realistic expectation to think that your neurodivergent
689
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:42.440
partner is going to be able to do your verbal
690
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:44.619
processing in the raw for 20 to 30 minutes.
691
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:45.940
No.
692
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:48.199
That's an unrealistic expectation.
693
00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:51.039
Even that's a lot if it's a hot topic.
694
00:37:51.460 --> 00:37:55.429
Right. So I'm a fan of running it through sentiment
695
00:37:55.469 --> 00:37:58.829
analysis with chat GPT. You can do that. And I
696
00:37:58.869 --> 00:38:02.349
am also a fan of the emotionally healthy relationship ladder
697
00:38:02.389 --> 00:38:05.989
of integrity. And like when the Scissoros are teaching it,
698
00:38:06.010 --> 00:38:07.989
they're like, oh, write it down, but then don't read
699
00:38:08.030 --> 00:38:10.480
the script. I'm like, no, no, no. Stick to the
700
00:38:10.539 --> 00:38:13.119
script so that you don't verbally process. Because it's like,
701
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:16.750
12 sentences and I'll say, okay, these 12 sentences, you've
702
00:38:16.789 --> 00:38:21.150
got two sentences per thing. That's 24 sentences by the
703
00:38:21.210 --> 00:38:23.570
time we do it, but it'll take you deep. Why
704
00:38:23.610 --> 00:38:26.309
I'm bringing it up, what I'm willing to do, what's
705
00:38:26.349 --> 00:38:28.869
your part, what's my part, how I help, hope this
706
00:38:28.909 --> 00:38:32.909
helps our relationship. And it'll get you deep really quickly,
707
00:38:32.969 --> 00:38:37.519
but you've got to already have done your processing. So
708
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:41.699
you're bringing it to the person with the ladder up
709
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:44.530
and the ladder out and versus all of the verbal
710
00:38:44.570 --> 00:38:48.179
processing in real time. I mean, Dan cannot handle my
711
00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:51.639
verbal processing 20, 30, 40 minutes at a time. And
712
00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:55.280
that's why I have friends who can verbally process some
713
00:38:55.300 --> 00:38:59.130
of those things because it's too much. It's overwhelming. It
714
00:38:59.210 --> 00:39:04.110
overwhelms the cingulate gyrus in the autistic brain. So part
715
00:39:04.130 --> 00:39:06.869
of what Dr. Wilder would say about our maturity is,
716
00:39:07.329 --> 00:39:10.960
It's understanding the capacity and the maturity of the other person.
717
00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:13.659
Not that that person is not expected to grow or mature.
718
00:39:14.179 --> 00:39:16.920
But if you're at a certain level of maturity and
719
00:39:16.940 --> 00:39:19.480
I'm just putting an expectation of two times higher without
720
00:39:19.539 --> 00:39:21.909
you earning the skills, it's like, well, this is what
721
00:39:21.989 --> 00:39:23.969
I want. This is what I need. This capacity that
722
00:39:24.070 --> 00:39:26.869
I have. You need to accept this with that capacity.
723
00:39:26.909 --> 00:39:28.969
If you don't have the capacity, that's not a sin.
724
00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:31.579
You don't have the capacity. not wanting to grow and
725
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:34.699
mature and change as a character issue. But I've got
726
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.030
to start at the level that you're at as we're
727
00:39:37.050 --> 00:39:39.530
building that capacity and resiliency together.
728
00:39:40.110 --> 00:39:40.590
Exactly.
729
00:39:40.610 --> 00:39:44.510
If anyone is parenting young children, you don't talk to
730
00:39:44.550 --> 00:39:47.199
a three-year-old like you do a 30-year-old. You know, they
731
00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:50.179
just don't have the language skill and the prefrontal load processing,
732
00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:53.559
and they're still very much in their amygdala hippocampus survival brain.
733
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:56.699
And, you know, gentle, calm, simple, right?
734
00:39:57.380 --> 00:40:01.360
Consider the audience. And the scripture, and it's literally tattooed
735
00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.869
on the inside of my eyelids, is Ephesians 4.29, which says,
736
00:40:06.250 --> 00:40:13.269
don't let any unwholesome or corrosive or fire-hosed speech come
737
00:40:13.389 --> 00:40:17.010
out of your mouth, but only what is useful. for
738
00:40:17.050 --> 00:40:21.409
building others up according to their needs, that it will
739
00:40:21.570 --> 00:40:24.719
benefit those who listen, right? And it goes on to say,
740
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:26.699
get rid of all anger and brawling and rage and
741
00:40:26.739 --> 00:40:27.099
all that.
742
00:40:27.219 --> 00:40:32.239
But that idea of speaking to be heard well and
743
00:40:32.659 --> 00:40:34.679
who is listening, right?
744
00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:37.219
And even the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost
745
00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:40.110
showed up and spoke in whatever language needed to be
746
00:40:40.170 --> 00:40:45.469
spoken so that the audience could understand. So we have
747
00:40:45.489 --> 00:40:48.969
the capacity to be careful and considerate in that way.
748
00:40:48.989 --> 00:40:49.639
Yeah.
749
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:52.300
And again, that's not an excuse not to grow, but
750
00:40:52.340 --> 00:40:55.739
understanding the capacity that we're at right now. A beautiful
751
00:40:55.780 --> 00:41:00.019
thing that happened between a friend and I, I won't
752
00:41:00.059 --> 00:41:02.260
talk about like too personal, but so I was sharing something.
753
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:03.719
I've got a lot of things going on in my
754
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:06.000
life right now. There's probably 10 huge things.
755
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:08.579
And I was sharing- I call you regularly, Stephanie.
756
00:41:08.619 --> 00:41:09.039
Thank you.
757
00:41:10.739 --> 00:41:13.860
And I was sharing with my friend a health thing
758
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:17.610
that's going on with another friend. And I noticed there
759
00:41:17.630 --> 00:41:21.530
was a slower response. And after consideration, she's also a
760
00:41:21.570 --> 00:41:23.849
Life Model Works person too. So we all know she
761
00:41:23.889 --> 00:41:27.570
and I do the Jim Wilder language. And she's like, Stephanie,
762
00:41:28.449 --> 00:41:29.630
I don't know how to bring this up to you
763
00:41:29.650 --> 00:41:30.969
because I don't want to hurt you. And I don't
764
00:41:30.989 --> 00:41:35.090
want you to feel abandoned in our relationship by this.
765
00:41:35.190 --> 00:41:37.309
But with all the things that you're going through, this
766
00:41:37.349 --> 00:41:39.889
thing that's going on with your friend, triggers me too
767
00:41:39.929 --> 00:41:42.940
deeply with the health concern that I've had. So I'm wondering,
768
00:41:43.539 --> 00:41:45.900
can I support you in these ways? But can you
769
00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:49.940
process this with another person? And I was like, oh
770
00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:52.739
my goodness, of course, of course I can do that.
771
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:55.920
I didn't even think about because you're several years past
772
00:41:55.940 --> 00:42:00.070
that health situation. And I was like, and she was like, well,
773
00:42:00.090 --> 00:42:01.429
are you mad at me? And I was like, no,
774
00:42:01.590 --> 00:42:04.639
I appreciate that you were honest. And that you said,
775
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:09.489
my capacity right now is this. My capacity is not this.
776
00:42:10.250 --> 00:42:13.530
I appreciate that so much. And if I ever cross
777
00:42:13.570 --> 00:42:16.909
that boundary or I forget, say, remember, that's the thing
778
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:20.360
that I can't process with you. And I will say,
779
00:42:20.380 --> 00:42:23.719
I am sorry. And she was like, we both said,
780
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:26.590
we love Jim Wilder's work, you know, because it's like
781
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:30.760
I was that's. me holding your weakness gently too. You're saying,
782
00:42:30.860 --> 00:42:33.380
I don't have the capacity. It's not a willingness. It's
783
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:35.619
a capacity. And I've got to recognize you don't have
784
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:38.929
that capacity because I'm triggering you. Even you wanting to
785
00:42:38.969 --> 00:42:42.750
help me, you can't, not you won't. And I respect that.
786
00:42:42.929 --> 00:42:45.969
I'll have someone else process that with me and you
787
00:42:46.010 --> 00:42:47.969
can help me in all these other things, which is
788
00:42:47.989 --> 00:42:49.710
still very beneficial. Thank you.
789
00:42:49.730 --> 00:42:53.480
Well, I want to make sure that when you say
790
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:56.840
who you're giving credit to, it's actually not Jim Wilder,
791
00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:00.380
because he says some wonderful things, but it's really the Lord.
792
00:43:00.659 --> 00:43:02.079
Yes, of course.
793
00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:05.019
What I love to remember is that the Lord's servant,
794
00:43:05.099 --> 00:43:07.719
a bruised reed, he would not bend.
795
00:43:07.940 --> 00:43:08.139
Right.
796
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:10.579
And a smoldering wick, he would not snuff out.
797
00:43:10.659 --> 00:43:15.550
So being careful of the other and protective, love is
798
00:43:15.829 --> 00:43:19.349
always protecting, right? And so, of course, and you're a
799
00:43:19.389 --> 00:43:24.829
boundary loving person. You embrace the opportunity to be instructed
800
00:43:25.389 --> 00:43:27.469
and guided how to be more loving.
801
00:43:28.190 --> 00:43:30.110
You receive the feedback.
802
00:43:29.909 --> 00:43:36.750
Willingly and, you know, with intent and interest and discernment.
803
00:43:37.179 --> 00:43:41.420
So, you know, yay for you. And people can learn that.
804
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.539
We can learn how when we're being corrected, you know,
805
00:43:45.579 --> 00:43:51.550
that a gentle rebuke is life-giving. And to need that rebuke,
806
00:43:51.610 --> 00:43:57.989
need that correction, we also need affirmation. So balance, more
807
00:43:58.070 --> 00:44:02.650
affirmation than rebuke and correction. But if the other person
808
00:44:02.730 --> 00:44:06.639
is really good-hearted and willing, then a couple can learn
809
00:44:06.699 --> 00:44:10.780
this process of blessing each other with communicated boundaries and
810
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:17.400
grace and patience, patience, patience, because this is a long-term process.
811
00:44:18.260 --> 00:44:23.159
And patience doesn't mean permissiveness. It means long suffering with
812
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:29.260
lots of communication and accountability. And also, I think, ideally,
813
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:32.800
when we're learning to set boundaries, we have others who
814
00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:36.300
are helping us hold ourselves accountable to what we say
815
00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:38.929
we want to do and also what we say we
816
00:44:38.969 --> 00:44:42.289
want to respect. I tell couples all the time, I
817
00:44:42.510 --> 00:44:45.320
don't want to be your only accountability partner. You know,
818
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.480
I want each of you to have a partner that
819
00:44:47.500 --> 00:44:50.619
you're talking to and then others maybe in a life
820
00:44:50.659 --> 00:44:53.980
group or in the church or in a family situation
821
00:44:54.019 --> 00:44:56.920
where you can kind of say how things are going
822
00:44:56.960 --> 00:45:00.199
and be honest and go on record for what's better,
823
00:45:00.579 --> 00:45:04.659
but what still needs work. And that gathers support and
824
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:08.039
compassion from others as well as prayer support.
825
00:45:08.500 --> 00:45:08.800
Right.
826
00:45:08.980 --> 00:45:12.329
And it brings everything to the light. Because that's really
827
00:45:12.670 --> 00:45:16.230
where healing happens in the light. You can't change what
828
00:45:16.269 --> 00:45:17.030
you won't name.
829
00:45:17.050 --> 00:45:17.769
Right.
830
00:45:19.130 --> 00:45:21.489
Absolutely. So I'm going to wrap us up with some
831
00:45:21.530 --> 00:45:23.960
of the points that we made. We talked about ruptures
832
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:27.760
are inevitable in relationships, and they certainly have different levels
833
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:31.019
of factors. It's not about controlling the other person. It's
834
00:45:31.059 --> 00:45:35.219
not punishment. It's not retaliation. It's about me. what I'm
835
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:38.159
willing to do, not willing to do, what I'm willing
836
00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:42.030
to invest in. Love and unlimited access are not the
837
00:45:42.070 --> 00:45:45.289
same thing. If there's harm or abuse, grace and space,
838
00:45:45.469 --> 00:45:47.469
that's one of your grace and space. And so I'm
839
00:45:47.530 --> 00:45:50.789
limiting the access for my protection, not to punish you.
840
00:45:51.670 --> 00:45:53.690
Repair is going to take time. It's going to take grace.
841
00:45:53.750 --> 00:45:55.969
It's going to take patience. And we got to do
842
00:45:56.010 --> 00:45:58.960
more than just wishful thinking and hope. Like I hope
843
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:02.420
this is going to change through prayer. Prayer is important,
844
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:07.000
but it's, that's really wishful thinking. That's no more helpful
845
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:10.480
than pixie dust and Tinkerbell. If there's not some kind
846
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:17.159
of consequences and stated boundaries, accountability, coaching, learning new skills,
847
00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:19.960
it's just not as magical as I set the boundary
848
00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:22.199
that other person changed to behavior and we moved on.
849
00:46:22.699 --> 00:46:25.440
There's a whole lot more stuff going in there. And
850
00:46:25.460 --> 00:46:29.610
so even our 45 minutes today doesn't do justice to
851
00:46:29.650 --> 00:46:36.630
this topic. So We'll keep coming back to this rupture, repair, boundaries, reconciliation.
852
00:46:37.469 --> 00:46:40.179
We'll keep talking about that as we learn more. So
853
00:46:40.909 --> 00:46:44.579
as always, I'm so thankful that you joined me today.
854
00:46:44.940 --> 00:46:48.059
Give people your website as we're closing out today.
855
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:48.719
Oh, yeah.
856
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:57.639
So it's four letters, bg-hc.org. Which in my mind means
857
00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:02.519
Barbara Grant dash hope for couples. So bg-hc.com or just
858
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:05.239
Google Barbara Grant neurodiverse coach.
859
00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:07.449
You will find me. All right.
860
00:47:07.469 --> 00:47:09.269
And if you want to hear more of our podcast
861
00:47:09.289 --> 00:47:12.369
and you specifically want to listen to Coach's Corner, go
862
00:47:12.429 --> 00:47:17.630
to christianneurodiversemarriage.com and then you'll see podcast page. And Dan
863
00:47:17.670 --> 00:47:20.489
has built a new tool that you can search. So
864
00:47:20.530 --> 00:47:24.429
you could put Barbara Grant in there or Nerdiverse Coaches Corner,
865
00:47:24.510 --> 00:47:29.349
and it'll just pop up those. Interception, alexithymia, whatever. If
866
00:47:29.389 --> 00:47:32.699
you want to find one, Dr. Jim Wilder, it'll bring
867
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:35.199
up all of the ones because Dan has built this
868
00:47:35.260 --> 00:47:36.380
tool with his genius IT.
869
00:47:36.460 --> 00:47:37.639
Thank you, Dan.
870
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.000
And you can find what you're looking for by putting
871
00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:42.920
a key phrase in there. So that's a new tool
872
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.829
we want to tell you guys about. So as always,
873
00:47:45.869 --> 00:47:48.489
we remind you that you are not alone on this
874
00:47:48.530 --> 00:47:51.170
journey and that there's hope for your future.
875
00:47:53.269 --> 00:47:57.210
If you're a couple seeking coaching or group support, visit Dr.
876
00:47:57.230 --> 00:48:04.949
Stephanie's website at christianneurodiversemarriage.com for group coaching opportunities. For one-on-one
877
00:48:05.030 --> 00:48:10.159
work through Hope for Couples, head to Barbara's site at bg-hc.com.
878
00:48:12.550 --> 00:48:12.829
Dr.
879
00:48:12.909 --> 00:48:16.789
Stephanie C. Holmes and Barbara Grant are also contributing authors
880
00:48:16.849 --> 00:48:21.280
to Uniquely Us, Gracefully Navigating the Maze of Neurodiverse Marriage,
881
00:48:21.940 --> 00:48:26.920
the first research-based book on neurodiverse relationships that blends insights
882
00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:31.340
on autism, faith, and marriage. Thank you for joining us
883
00:48:31.510 --> 00:48:35.170
on the Neurodiverse Couples Coaches Corner. See you next time.