Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Marja Fox and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Welcome to Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable
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Connections, the show where relationships create
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opportunity and communication drives results.
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I'm your host, Michael Foreman. Most people think
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networking happens one conversation at a time.
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But what if the same skills that help you build
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trust with one person are the exact skills needed
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to lead a team, align an organization? and navigate
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complex challenges. My guest today brings a unique
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perspective on communication at scale. We're
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talking about leading a team isn't all that different
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from building a network, why smart leaders know
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when to bring in outside perspectives, and why
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some of the biggest opportunities come to those
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who are willing to play the long game. In a world
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that rewards instant gratification, this conversation
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is a powerful reminder that trust, influence,
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and meaningful relationships are built over time.
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If you're looking to strengthen your communication,
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improve your leadership, and create relationships
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that produce lasting results, this episode is
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for you. I'd like to welcome to the podcast today,
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Marja Fox. She's an expert in everything I just
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explained. And I would just like to ask, first
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of all, hello, Marja. How are you? I'm good.
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How are you, Michael? Good. I would just like
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you to give us the cliff notes of how you got
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where you are today. You have no idea how difficult
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a cliff's note version of my life is because
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it feels like it was all over the map. But here's
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my best attempt. I now, as you say, facilitate
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executive team conversations, usually around
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strategy or big strategic questions, the things
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that are far in the future. How I got here? Most
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recently, I was a VP at Ecolab, so spent some
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time in a kind of formal organizational executive
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leadership position myself, which gives you absolutely
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a great idea of where the real sticky points
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are. Prior to that, most of my career was at
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McKinsey. So I was a management consultant doing...
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Similar kinds of work, right? Tackling businesses
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or organizations' biggest problems through a
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management consulting lens. Prior to that, though,
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I was a chemist, a PhD chemist, and a theater
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nerd. all of which has actually come full circle,
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standing in front of a room, helping them have
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a conversation, polls on my theater skills, solving
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really hard problems, polls on my chemistry skills.
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So all of those things woven together to get
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me here, focused on areas where hard problems
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need to be solved and they need to be solved
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with people. Very good. And I can't agree with
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you more since that's what I go across the country
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talking about. So we're on the same line, same
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level. Okay. So you say communicating with a
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team isn't all that different from networking
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one -on -one. What fundamental principles apply
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equally to both? I like to think of two things.
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Leading with two things, whether I'm networking
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one -on -one or whether I'm dealing with a team,
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or especially when things get tough. If you can
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fall back on two things, they've never failed
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me. One of which is curiosity. Just being curious
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about where another person is, why they think
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the way they think, why they're poking at you
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in ways that might feel irritating, but probably
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contains an important nugget of truth. And if
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you start from a position of curiosity, you're
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less likely to miss some of those things because
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of the pricklies that might otherwise be going
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on. So that's one thing. And I think it's equally
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applicable one -on -one or in groups. And the
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second thing is generosity. It comes with listening
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with generosity and it comes with giving with
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generosity, your own ideas, your own assets,
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your own resources. I think, I'm sure you've
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talked about it. add infinitum on this podcast
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but the people who go out and network one -on
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-one in order to extract tend to do pretty poorly
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same thing in a big group if you go into a discussion
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ready to drag a group into your perspective or
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your preferred ways you probably aren't going
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to get very far So how do you give? How do you
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give space? How do you give insights? How do
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you give respect? So those two things, curiosity
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and generosity, I think really set people up
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to have great conversations in which, frankly,
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everyone wins. There's an 80 -20 rule with networking.
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The other person speaks 80%, you speak 20%. And
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part of that 20 % is asking questions. So you
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get to the root. And the other thing, you hit
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upon it and you didn't actually go deep enough
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because when I network, I do with what's called
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a servant's heart, all right? I look to give
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before I receive. So if you go to a networking
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event or even one -on -one and you're looking
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to say, how can I help this person? It takes
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all the pressure off your shoulders, but it makes
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you more memorable. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So
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why do some leaders struggle to create alignment
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with their organizations, even when they're communicating
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frequently? Yeah. There's a lot of directions
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one could go to that. But what I see very frequently
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is a lack of the things we just talked about
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in how they engage their organization. And it
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comes from a good place, or it comes from an
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explainable place. Most senior executives have
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been rewarded over the course of long careers
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for knowing the answer, for telling people what
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to do, for standing firm in their beliefs, even
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in the face of wins that might be trying to push
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them around. These are the things that got them
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where they are. As a leader who is trying to
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convince a team or an organization of a direction
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and not just convince them on the level that
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they understand it, they heard it, but that they
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believe in it so that they will go do with heart
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and passion the things that need to be done requires
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them to be involved in it. So communication at
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that level and when a leader is struggling is
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usually because the communication was essentially
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one way. It's let me tell you the thing I've
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decided rather than let's decide a thing together
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in the case of your top team or even lower in
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the organization when it's literally not possible
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or even. not advisable to have 300 people involved
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in setting your strategy. There's still a difference
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in a conversation that says, here's the things
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we know and we're pretty clear on. Here's some
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of the open questions that frankly fall in your
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sphere, in your lap that we need you to help
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us with. And now you have a conversation. When
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you have a speech, it rarely gets through in
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the way that a conversation does. You said it
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without saying it. You said the difference between
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being a leader and a boss. Because you said everything
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but those words. A leader, you get down into
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the trenches with everybody because you're teaching
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them how to lead. You're giving them responsibility.
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It's a give and take. And being a boss is just
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shouting orders, barking orders. So you said
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it without saying it. You're absolutely right,
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though. And we see it all over, right? People
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who, especially in their early years of becoming
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a leader, think it means being a boss with a
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bigger capital B, when actually it's an entirely
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different set of skills. Absolutely. A different
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set of skills. And the person who is a leader.
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will tend to go further than being a boss. A
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boss will be middle management, not go any further,
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and not understand why he's not getting promoted.
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So yes, I understand that. What can networking
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professionals learn from leaders who successfully
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communicate across large teams and a diverse
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group of people? I think the... Maybe two things
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that I can highlight that one will be very related
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to things we've just talked about. One will take
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us in another direction and one is just listening,
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right? You've already emphasized that 80 -20
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rule. Most of leadership and most of successful
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leadership comes down to listening. What I'll
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add on that point is listening can be mistaken
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for I heard the thing. I waited for my turn to
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respond. And I said what I wanted to say. That's
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a kind of passive listening. And it's unfortunately
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we don't have a second word because that's not
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what I mean. It's listening for what is unsaid
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in addition to what is said. It is listening.
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for where the sticking points are. It's listening
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for where is the nugget of brilliance in something
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else that might be meandering or a little off
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base, right? It is a far more active and engaged
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type of listening than the, I gave you a turn,
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now it's my turn to speak. So that's one direction
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I would think about. And the second thing that
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I would highlight is what I'll deliberately call
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preparation. Preparation over planning. So many
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times we enter conversations without any kind
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of preparation or planning. Even in a formal
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meeting, we'll show up and we'll have an agenda
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and that feels good. But that's sort of the limit
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of what we do. If you think about so many other
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tasks in your life, you would never show up with
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so little forethought into what to expect, what
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could unfold, what might happen. And I would
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say, whether it's a formal meeting or a more
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informal opportunity to communicate, you should
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be investing in some preparation. And I said
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I choose preparation over planning because, and
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the difference is this. Because of everything
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I've said about listening and engaging, you cannot
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have a full script. If you have a full script
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and you intend to stick with it, you are no longer
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listening. And planning to me indicates that,
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right? I know what I'm going to say at minute
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32 and then at 47 I'm going to say this and that's
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not what I mean. But preparation in the sense
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of who is it that I'm going to be engaging with.
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Who are these 12 people? What do I know about
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them? Not just their roles, but. Where have they
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been? How do they think? What is the hardest
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thing that they've encountered in the last week
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or the last month? What is the thing that actually
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has nothing to do with what we're about to talk
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about, but probably is sitting on their brain?
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This is what I mean by preparation, such that
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you can anticipate some of where the push might
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be, some of where the disconnects might be. That
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preparation sets you up to be the kind of communicator,
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the kind of network, the kind of leader that
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the most successful people achieve. Absolutely.
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And I was thinking of so many things while you
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were talking. And as I was thinking about it,
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you would discuss it by the next sentence. You're
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so on point with everything. And all I can say
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is while you're listening. When you said you're
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only half listening because you want to concentrate
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on the next thing that you want to say. And that's
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the worst thing that you can do is figure out
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what you want to say next without listening to
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them. So the best thing is to reiterate what
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they said to you and say, OK, then you said this
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and you're going to respond this way. And that
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was just so on point. And also when you're preparing,
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and I'm a big believer in preparing, right? But
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the way that I prepare is really bullet points.
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If this is discussed, I can bring up these points.
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If this is discussed, I can bring up those points.
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And if nothing is discussed, I have a few other
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bullet points. So I have basic knowledge, but
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nothing is set to time. I don't have to remember,
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oh, no, I have to do this one before I do. No,
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I just have to glance down to, oh, yeah, and
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talk about it. So I understand completely what
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you're saying with your preparation and with
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your listening skills, because it is a skill.
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It is a skill because it's very easy for you
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to start to wander as the other person's talking
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unless you really listen to them. I love the
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tip on bullet points. I think that's fantastic,
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right? And look, there's something a little funny
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about bullet points. Like the moment we write
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in a sentence, it becomes very static and chiseled
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in stone and somehow bullet points trick our
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brains. They just feel a little more loose and
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flexible. They're an outline, right? They're
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a symbol of an outline and that helps us, I think,
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get our minds in the right place. One more thing
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I want to offer. that you prompted, which ties
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back to that theater background. And this might,
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this analogy might help for some of your listeners.
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In high school theater, we had a script, right?
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Everybody, line, here's your whole script. But
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you get on stage and somebody misses a line.
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Now what? And the important thing to get to the
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end of the scene is to know what the scene was
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supposed to accomplish. You don't actually have
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to memorize the script and you don't have to
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get there word by word the way the playwright
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intended. If you know what the scene was trying
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to accomplish, you can pretty much work with
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the people around you to get there. So what I
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would add to your bullet points, and I think
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you probably do anyway, is what's the headline?
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What is it? What is the overarching objective
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here? Because if you can keep that in mind, then
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you're not so worried about, I need to say this
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thing. You know where you're trying to get to.
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And if the people you're with kind of steer you
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this way, I need to go that way. But if they
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steer you this way, then you know you need to
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go left, right? So I think that's just keeping
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in mind the objective of the scene. in addition
00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:31.759
to your bullet points, is another good way to
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.539
help you listen at the same way that you are
00:16:35.539 --> 00:16:39.279
leading towards the things that you think are
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.500
right and proper and best. Very good. Yes, I
00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:48.559
agree 100%, 110%. I absolutely agree. And when
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.320
I said that you were on point before, I mean
00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.720
it now also, because you just brought it all
00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.799
together. You advocate for third -party support
00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:01.980
in difficult conversations. Why do leaders, why
00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:05.720
do smart leaders often bring in outside perspectives
00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:08.700
instead of trying to solve everything themselves?
00:17:10.769 --> 00:17:13.309
Maybe two things. It seems like all my answers
00:17:13.309 --> 00:17:16.569
have two things these days. Two things. One of
00:17:16.569 --> 00:17:23.640
which is on big strategic questions. It is often
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:27.700
useful. It is blanket useful to have multiple
00:17:27.700 --> 00:17:31.779
perspectives. You are looking forward into uncertainty.
00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:37.099
You are dealing with usually a team of people
00:17:37.099 --> 00:17:41.609
who are somewhat committed deliberately to past
00:17:41.609 --> 00:17:45.910
choices. And so there are certain perspectives
00:17:45.910 --> 00:17:50.009
that become very shared within that group. And
00:17:50.009 --> 00:17:54.029
those were good. for what you needed to do yesterday
00:17:54.029 --> 00:17:56.829
and today. But as you think about the future,
00:17:57.150 --> 00:18:00.650
it is helpful to have people in the room who
00:18:00.650 --> 00:18:05.190
are not tied to yesterday's decisions. So that's
00:18:05.190 --> 00:18:08.329
one thing from a, it's called a content perspective,
00:18:08.609 --> 00:18:11.730
right? The actual decision or the debate you
00:18:11.730 --> 00:18:14.990
need to have benefits from perspectives that
00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:18.670
are somewhat untied to the business as it is
00:18:18.670 --> 00:18:22.900
today. But the second thing relates very much
00:18:22.900 --> 00:18:25.359
to all that we've been talking about. There is
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:30.779
a lot to think about when it comes to helping
00:18:30.779 --> 00:18:35.450
groups of people have great conversations. That's
00:18:35.450 --> 00:18:38.230
what facilitation is, right? Facilitation with
00:18:38.230 --> 00:18:40.690
a capital F. Probably everybody on your, all
00:18:40.690 --> 00:18:43.029
your listeners have been exposed to facilitation,
00:18:43.190 --> 00:18:45.089
lowercase f, the way that I would call it, right?
00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:47.210
Somebody who stands up in the room, takes the
00:18:47.210 --> 00:18:50.329
notes, makes you do awkward trust falls, that
00:18:50.329 --> 00:18:55.250
person. What I'm talking about is frankly a much
00:18:55.250 --> 00:18:58.950
more kind of intellectual and engaged type of
00:18:58.950 --> 00:19:03.910
guide through difficult conversations. And that
00:19:04.369 --> 00:19:09.650
is a full -time job. If a leader is trying to
00:19:09.650 --> 00:19:12.990
both participate in the conversation at the same
00:19:12.990 --> 00:19:16.809
time that they're trying to facilitate the conversation,
00:19:17.210 --> 00:19:21.670
that can be done on simpler questions, but it
00:19:21.670 --> 00:19:24.490
becomes very difficult to do either of those
00:19:24.490 --> 00:19:27.490
jobs well when you're trying to do both of them
00:19:27.490 --> 00:19:30.569
at the same time. So for the hardest conversations,
00:19:31.029 --> 00:19:35.210
I selfishly I would advocate for outsourcing
00:19:35.210 --> 00:19:38.950
the ensuring of a great conversation because
00:19:38.950 --> 00:19:42.170
that's something that somebody else can do for
00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:45.190
you that allows you and your team to really focus
00:19:45.190 --> 00:19:49.970
on the meat of the discussion. Steve Jobs comes
00:19:49.970 --> 00:19:55.059
to mind. Steve Jobs, who was a genius when it
00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:59.779
comes to Apple, but when he started to develop
00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:04.490
his board, he knew what he does best. And he
00:20:04.490 --> 00:20:08.269
knew what he didn't do best. And he hired people
00:20:08.269 --> 00:20:12.990
for those things that he didn't do best. So he
00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:15.890
didn't have yes men. He didn't have people saying,
00:20:16.009 --> 00:20:18.230
oh, that's a great job, Steve. Oh, Steve, that's
00:20:18.230 --> 00:20:20.490
perfect. Oh, Steve, that's wonderful. No, he
00:20:20.490 --> 00:20:23.690
said, whoa, what about this? So he brought in
00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:27.450
those other perspectives. right away. And so
00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:30.210
he knew what he was able to do. He knew what
00:20:30.210 --> 00:20:33.369
he was not able to do. And that brought forth.
00:20:33.410 --> 00:20:39.349
So that, I think, animates your whole idea of
00:20:39.349 --> 00:20:43.940
what you just said. Perfect. Yeah, it does. It's
00:20:43.940 --> 00:20:46.299
over the course of my work as an independent,
00:20:46.460 --> 00:20:48.900
as an executive, and as a management consultant
00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:51.460
at McKinsey, I must have worked with, I don't
00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:54.839
know, hundreds of senior executives. I have seen
00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.900
extraordinary ones. I have seen terrible ones.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.819
And if you just look at them plainly, they fall
00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:06.059
all over the map, right? There are big, bold,
00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:09.420
huge personalities. There are very quiet, almost
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:12.450
mousy ones who When they do speak up, you lean
00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:15.769
in, right? They're all over. But the thing that
00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:20.349
I think is most consistent across the extraordinary
00:21:20.349 --> 00:21:25.970
leaders is humility. It is self -awareness and
00:21:25.970 --> 00:21:29.609
it is the humility to say, I'm great at these
00:21:29.609 --> 00:21:32.890
things and not so great at these things. And
00:21:32.890 --> 00:21:35.750
if I'm humble enough to say that, then I can
00:21:35.750 --> 00:21:39.430
staff for it. And they do. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.980
In both networking and leadership, how do you
00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:46.980
create an environment where people feel heard
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:51.200
rather than simply managed? Yes. Oh my gosh,
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:53.019
it's so important. All the things that we've
00:21:53.019 --> 00:21:55.460
talked about listening are relevant here. Let
00:21:55.460 --> 00:22:00.619
me add a really simple tactic that I think your
00:22:00.619 --> 00:22:05.230
listeners can use. And I think it works, I'm
00:22:05.230 --> 00:22:07.210
just testing myself internally, but I think it
00:22:07.210 --> 00:22:11.549
works whether you are out at a networking event,
00:22:11.690 --> 00:22:14.769
you are sitting at a lunch across from somebody,
00:22:14.910 --> 00:22:18.750
or you're in a meeting. And that very simple
00:22:18.750 --> 00:22:23.150
and underutilized tactic is writing things down.
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.279
It is something you used earlier around, hey,
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:30.420
I heard you say this and repeating it back. Great,
00:22:30.619 --> 00:22:34.049
super valuable. But when I stand up at a flip
00:22:34.049 --> 00:22:38.390
chart with my smelly Mr. Sketch marker and write
00:22:38.390 --> 00:22:43.829
down the thing that was said, people really know
00:22:43.829 --> 00:22:47.029
that they've been heard. And I think you can
00:22:47.029 --> 00:22:49.750
do it in a notebook. It's not quite as effective
00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:52.589
as visually seeing it, but I think it's massively
00:22:52.589 --> 00:22:56.420
underutilized. We've gotten used to... putting
00:22:56.420 --> 00:22:59.400
PowerPoint presentations up in front of people
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.240
at meetings or printing them out and everybody's
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.900
just looking down, I'll tell you what, I don't
00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:07.880
use them at all, ever. There is never a screen
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.240
on in my meetings because to really be heard
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.500
and to really hear each other, we need eyes looking
00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:19.440
at each other and we need, I cover the walls
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.799
in flip charts of the important things that have
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:27.109
been said. And the ways that we're coalescing,
00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:30.230
the early decisions that we've made. So I think
00:23:30.230 --> 00:23:34.470
the verbal confirmation of listening, but the
00:23:34.470 --> 00:23:37.569
visual confirmation of listening is something
00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:39.630
that I think your listeners should probably consider
00:23:39.630 --> 00:23:43.789
adding to their toolkits. And that's so true.
00:23:43.950 --> 00:23:46.009
And I'm a big one when it comes to follow up,
00:23:46.009 --> 00:23:50.069
right? Because people, A, either they don't follow
00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:53.440
up at all, or B, they follow up. whenever they
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.880
want to, or C, it's maybe I will, I'll follow
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.640
up tomorrow or the next day or anything else.
00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:04.099
I run a business networking meeting every week,
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:08.119
every Thursday evening. And they all know that
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:12.900
my secret sauce is follow -up. And when you said
00:24:12.900 --> 00:24:16.099
about writing things down, whenever you go to
00:24:16.099 --> 00:24:18.859
a networking event or a meeting, you take your
00:24:18.859 --> 00:24:22.099
business card on the back of it. You write down
00:24:22.099 --> 00:24:25.500
the date, the name of the function, and something
00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:29.829
you spoke about. Because in two weeks, when you're
00:24:29.829 --> 00:24:32.390
looking at that card saying, who the hell is
00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:35.109
that? I don't remember that. You turn it over
00:24:35.109 --> 00:24:36.990
and say, oh, that's right. I know who that is.
00:24:37.150 --> 00:24:40.730
And you continue with your follow -up. So it's
00:24:40.730 --> 00:24:43.269
a learning device. I've always written things
00:24:43.269 --> 00:24:47.130
down to remember them, to learn them. But for
00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:51.500
somebody else, bullet points, writing it down,
00:24:51.890 --> 00:24:54.950
It drives it home. It really does. That's a great
00:24:54.950 --> 00:24:58.190
one. And I love the addition of not just writing
00:24:58.190 --> 00:25:00.349
it down in the room, but writing it down after
00:25:00.349 --> 00:25:03.250
in your follow -up email, or if an executive
00:25:03.250 --> 00:25:07.809
team has made a decision. They can feel great
00:25:07.809 --> 00:25:12.130
about it in the room and it disperses the moment
00:25:12.130 --> 00:25:16.130
they leave the room unless you have a mechanism
00:25:16.130 --> 00:25:19.470
by which somebody has recorded and written it
00:25:19.470 --> 00:25:22.430
down and given people another forum to digest
00:25:22.430 --> 00:25:25.849
it, right? You revisit things or a decision doesn't
00:25:25.849 --> 00:25:28.589
stick. So I think exactly the same principle
00:25:28.589 --> 00:25:30.829
applies in both those kind of group settings
00:25:30.829 --> 00:25:34.670
and the individual ones. Yeah, that's why recording
00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:37.690
your meetings and doing things like that is so
00:25:37.690 --> 00:25:41.490
important because you don't remember everything.
00:25:41.990 --> 00:25:45.410
You don't. You'll pick up something different
00:25:45.410 --> 00:25:48.950
every time you listen to it. So that all goes
00:25:48.950 --> 00:25:52.269
with it. Okay. Why are so many professionals
00:25:52.269 --> 00:25:55.650
impatient when it comes to relationship building
00:25:55.650 --> 00:25:59.529
and how does the impatience limit long -term
00:25:59.529 --> 00:26:03.750
success? Let me first confess, you're talking
00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:09.089
to somebody who's impatient. Okay, so it's true.
00:26:09.190 --> 00:26:12.589
I'm not lying. But jokes aside, I think many
00:26:12.589 --> 00:26:16.410
successful people are impatient by nature. And
00:26:16.410 --> 00:26:18.470
not even just about relationships, right? But
00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:20.869
about everything. We're driven. We like to see
00:26:20.869 --> 00:26:24.490
things happen. We like impact. We want what we
00:26:24.490 --> 00:26:29.470
do to matter. And so that impatience. is really
00:26:29.470 --> 00:26:33.930
valuable in a whole host of places in our lives.
00:26:34.569 --> 00:26:39.349
But if we then try to apply that or force that
00:26:39.349 --> 00:26:43.730
onto relationships, we pretty quickly find it
00:26:43.730 --> 00:26:47.950
doesn't work. Relationships are not on a timeline.
00:26:48.130 --> 00:26:52.109
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, no, but it's a skill. It
00:26:52.109 --> 00:26:55.069
really is. You have to practice it. You can't
00:26:55.069 --> 00:26:57.150
just say, you know what? I'm an impatient person,
00:26:57.230 --> 00:27:01.130
but now all of a sudden I'm patient. It doesn't
00:27:01.130 --> 00:27:02.809
work that way. Yes, that's right. So there's
00:27:02.809 --> 00:27:06.119
this first step of sort of being aware. that
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.519
I might need to add a different skill, maybe
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:13.740
even an opposite skill to my arsenal to be deployed
00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:17.200
in the right situations. And let me add, there
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:20.200
are also business challenges that benefit from
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.940
patience. So it is a good skill to be able to
00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:27.640
access, not just for relationships, but for a
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:31.279
whole host of things. And you go out about deliberately
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:35.500
building it. I think it's very much aided by
00:27:35.500 --> 00:27:41.349
thinking long -term and what we talked about
00:27:41.349 --> 00:27:43.089
at the beginning, leading your relationships
00:27:43.089 --> 00:27:46.049
with curiosity and generosity, then it's not
00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:49.630
an agenda, right? There's not, I'm going to meet
00:27:49.630 --> 00:27:54.299
this person because of this thing, but. I'm going
00:27:54.299 --> 00:27:56.279
to meet this person because I wonder what they're
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.599
all about and who knows where it goes. And I'm
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:01.019
not just curious about them. I'm curious about
00:28:01.019 --> 00:28:06.319
the path that this relationship might take. And
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:11.339
that not only helps you build patience, it helps
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:15.599
you see things that might have been completely
00:28:15.700 --> 00:28:21.259
ancillary or way off with what you thought that
00:28:21.259 --> 00:28:23.920
relationship was going to yield or had the potential
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:26.519
to yield in the first place. I have certainly
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.240
engaged in partnerships or had clients that I
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:35.880
never thought of in that way until it turned
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:41.119
up. The other thing I think that helps is knowing
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:44.539
that once you can get yourself in the mode of
00:28:44.539 --> 00:28:49.430
developing relationships patiently, The old ones
00:28:49.430 --> 00:28:52.549
pay off, right? So it doesn't feel so urgent
00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:54.390
when you're starting out, when you're really
00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:56.769
like learning the skills of being a network or
00:28:56.769 --> 00:29:00.569
you're new to a job or a company or you're new
00:29:00.569 --> 00:29:03.910
professionally. There is such this, I need things
00:29:03.910 --> 00:29:08.329
to move now that gets somewhat ameliorated once
00:29:08.329 --> 00:29:11.529
you have. a body of momentum going behind you
00:29:11.529 --> 00:29:13.210
because the things you've invested in three,
00:29:13.289 --> 00:29:16.309
five, seven years from now are actually paying
00:29:16.309 --> 00:29:18.910
off now at the same time that you're investing
00:29:18.910 --> 00:29:20.789
in the things that might matter three, five,
00:29:20.809 --> 00:29:24.390
seven years from now. Networking is all about
00:29:24.390 --> 00:29:29.049
patience. It's all about being patient. And you
00:29:29.049 --> 00:29:32.630
really have to realize that you're not just speaking
00:29:32.630 --> 00:29:36.490
to that person, but you're speaking to that person's
00:29:36.490 --> 00:29:40.109
network. Right? Because let's say that person
00:29:40.109 --> 00:29:43.990
can't use your services, but they know of somebody
00:29:43.990 --> 00:29:47.630
who can. But if you're sitting there talking
00:29:47.630 --> 00:29:51.329
and not letting them talk, they'll never recommend
00:29:51.329 --> 00:29:55.910
you. So it goes a long way. Okay. One of my favorite
00:29:55.910 --> 00:29:59.049
closing questions is always, who else should
00:29:59.049 --> 00:30:03.329
I meet? Yeah. But you have to be confident enough
00:30:03.329 --> 00:30:09.230
to even ask that question. Yes. So that's a whole
00:30:09.230 --> 00:30:12.750
other conversation. Yes. How can someone balance
00:30:12.750 --> 00:30:16.630
short -term business pressures with long -term
00:30:16.630 --> 00:30:20.450
investment required to build trust and meaningful
00:30:20.450 --> 00:30:27.900
relationships? Yeah. Long -term business is not
00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:29.640
just for trust and meaningful relationships,
00:30:29.859 --> 00:30:32.839
but also for the health and performance of the
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:39.720
business. I know there is a very common framing
00:30:39.720 --> 00:30:42.680
of a dichotomy between short -term and long -term.
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:45.480
And I understand the tension that comes having
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.799
sat in an executive seat myself. So I'm not trying
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:54.339
to downplay or invalidate that tension. But they're
00:30:54.339 --> 00:30:59.609
more aligned than we realize. If we can do the
00:30:59.609 --> 00:31:03.349
smart things to keep ourselves focused on the
00:31:03.349 --> 00:31:07.750
future, the short term just becomes easier. It's
00:31:07.750 --> 00:31:11.690
hard to start. But if you can get it going, it
00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:14.569
feeds itself. And this certainly is the space
00:31:14.569 --> 00:31:16.930
I sit in, not just from relationships, but from
00:31:16.930 --> 00:31:19.009
a business standpoint, right? I'm a strategist.
00:31:19.009 --> 00:31:21.970
So most of the decisions that I'm helping senior
00:31:21.970 --> 00:31:25.289
executives make together fall into this strategic
00:31:25.289 --> 00:31:28.710
area. These are decisions that you're trying
00:31:28.710 --> 00:31:30.990
to make for your organization that might come
00:31:30.990 --> 00:31:34.369
to fruition three to five years out. And I often
00:31:34.369 --> 00:31:37.569
have to give my clients a little pep talk on
00:31:37.569 --> 00:31:41.119
why are... we even doing this? I've got this
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:44.119
order coming across my desk now. This client
00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:47.000
or this customer is mad about this thing we missed.
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:50.559
There's so many urgent things flying around.
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.039
So why do we even think about the long -term
00:31:55.039 --> 00:32:00.369
at all is a common question. But the long -term
00:32:00.369 --> 00:32:06.390
thinking is not planning ahead for a decision
00:32:06.390 --> 00:32:08.349
I'm going to make three to five years from now.
00:32:08.430 --> 00:32:10.390
Here's my planning versus preparation again,
00:32:10.509 --> 00:32:13.150
right? That's not what we're doing when we're
00:32:13.150 --> 00:32:15.490
talking about strategy. It's not what we're doing
00:32:15.490 --> 00:32:17.950
when we're forming a new relationship. It is
00:32:17.950 --> 00:32:20.650
not so in three years from now, I'm going to
00:32:20.650 --> 00:32:23.009
make this decision or in three years from now,
00:32:23.049 --> 00:32:26.750
this person's going to give me this thing. What
00:32:26.750 --> 00:32:31.710
it's doing is helping us inform the decisions
00:32:31.710 --> 00:32:37.690
we make. today. Because we have a sense for where
00:32:37.690 --> 00:32:41.410
we want to be on the horizon. If we didn't have
00:32:41.410 --> 00:32:44.170
that sense, if we never picked up our eyes and
00:32:44.170 --> 00:32:47.289
looked out at the horizon, we might just be wandering
00:32:47.289 --> 00:32:50.690
in circles, dealing with all the urgent stuff
00:32:50.690 --> 00:32:55.950
that falls on our desk now, or bumping into people
00:32:55.950 --> 00:32:59.069
and building relationships somewhat haphazardly.
00:32:59.450 --> 00:33:03.519
So it's about A sense of where you want to be,
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:06.940
not a pinpoint destination. I'd rather be this
00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:10.259
direction than that direction. That helps me
00:33:10.259 --> 00:33:12.900
think about what are the moves that are smart
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:16.839
for me now? What are the kinds of people that
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.440
I might want to know? What are the things I want
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:24.980
to know about them and the ways that I can help
00:33:24.980 --> 00:33:27.579
them? So it's that. It's a difference between
00:33:27.579 --> 00:33:30.680
a map and a compass. Your long -term is a compass.
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:35.380
It's giving you a rough direction, not a concrete
00:33:35.380 --> 00:33:39.079
path or recipe or set of driving instructions
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:42.579
that will help you make really good business
00:33:42.579 --> 00:33:45.539
decisions today and will help you make good relationship
00:33:45.539 --> 00:33:50.960
decisions today. A very good analogy. And I think
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:54.890
I'm going to have to steal that. You may. Thank
00:33:54.890 --> 00:33:58.490
you. That's a very good analogy. Okay. Let's
00:33:58.490 --> 00:34:01.890
bring this podcast full circle. And if a listener
00:34:01.890 --> 00:34:04.809
wanted to dramatically improve their communication,
00:34:05.109 --> 00:34:08.809
their relationships and influence over the next
00:34:08.809 --> 00:34:12.530
90 days, what's one habit would you encourage
00:34:12.530 --> 00:34:17.070
them to adopt? I'm going to go with something
00:34:17.809 --> 00:34:21.400
we've already alluded to, but when you, as a
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:25.150
senior leader, I'm going to focus on teams because
00:34:25.150 --> 00:34:27.170
that's what I do. You're a senior leader. You're
00:34:27.170 --> 00:34:30.530
sitting with your team. When you feel yourself
00:34:30.530 --> 00:34:36.289
having the instinct to open a meeting or a conversation
00:34:36.289 --> 00:34:40.250
with a statement, I challenge you to turn it
00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:45.420
into a question. That is going to fundamentally
00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:50.280
change the way those conversations proceed. You're
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:55.969
going to get more information. better and your
00:34:55.969 --> 00:35:00.469
team is going to believe in those answers in
00:35:00.469 --> 00:35:02.750
a way you may not have experienced before. So
00:35:02.750 --> 00:35:07.570
it's a tactical, small thing that often has massive
00:35:07.570 --> 00:35:12.880
impact. So try it. Wow. That was very good. Very
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:16.340
good. Marja, this was fantastic. I learned so
00:35:16.340 --> 00:35:19.480
much because I'm going to steal it and put it
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:23.659
into my speaking times. If somebody wants to
00:35:23.659 --> 00:35:27.539
get hold of you, either to hire you, for you
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:31.039
to be their mentor, or just to say hello, how
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:34.519
can they reach you? Two options. First is to
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.780
go to my website, marjafox .com. That's M -A
00:35:37.780 --> 00:35:41.480
-R -J -A -F -O -X. There is not another one.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:46.099
And on there, you'll find a contact form if you
00:35:46.099 --> 00:35:47.760
want to reach out to me. There's a newsletter
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.079
to subscribe to. There's blogs. There's things
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:53.369
to look at. The second way that I would encourage
00:35:53.369 --> 00:35:56.449
your listeners to consider, because it just puts
00:35:56.449 --> 00:36:00.210
us in an ongoing dialogue, is to find me on LinkedIn.
00:36:00.230 --> 00:36:04.230
I post six days a week with all sorts of insights
00:36:04.230 --> 00:36:06.809
and nuggets and tips. You don't have to even
00:36:06.809 --> 00:36:09.170
let me know you're there if you're not ready
00:36:09.170 --> 00:36:11.750
for that. But it'll just keep us in the loop,
00:36:11.789 --> 00:36:14.730
keep me in front of mind for you, give you lots
00:36:14.730 --> 00:36:17.130
of additional ideas to think about as you're
00:36:17.130 --> 00:36:19.269
running your own meetings, engaging with your
00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:22.750
team. That again is Marja Fox. Won't be hard
00:36:22.750 --> 00:36:25.510
to find me. You can connect or just follow if
00:36:25.510 --> 00:36:29.929
you want to be on the down low. Fantastic. This
00:36:29.929 --> 00:36:32.909
conversation is a reminder that the strongest
00:36:32.909 --> 00:36:35.789
relationships, whether in business, leadership,
00:36:35.969 --> 00:36:39.949
or networking, are rarely built overnight. The
00:36:39.949 --> 00:36:42.590
people who create lasting success understand
00:36:42.590 --> 00:36:46.010
that communication is an investment. Trust is
00:36:46.010 --> 00:36:49.130
earned through consistency, and meaningful results
00:36:49.130 --> 00:36:52.929
often come from doing the right thing long before
00:36:52.929 --> 00:36:57.280
payoff is visible. Take one step this week. Invest
00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:59.900
in a relationship without expecting an immediate
00:36:59.900 --> 00:37:04.119
return. Send a note, make an introduction, offer
00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:09.380
support, or simply check in. The long game often
00:37:09.380 --> 00:37:14.210
produces the greatest rewards. value in today's
00:37:14.210 --> 00:37:16.710
episode, make sure you like, follow, and subscribe
00:37:16.710 --> 00:37:19.090
to Networking Unleashed, building profitable
00:37:19.090 --> 00:37:21.929
connections so you continue the best insights
00:37:21.929 --> 00:37:25.309
on networking and communication. And share this
00:37:25.309 --> 00:37:28.409
episode with someone who understands the relationships
00:37:28.409 --> 00:37:32.570
are built one conversation at a time. If you'd
00:37:32.570 --> 00:37:36.179
help strengthening your communication. building
00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:39.199
stronger professional relationships, and creating
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:41.860
opportunities through meaningful connections,
00:37:42.219 --> 00:37:45.980
visit michelaforman .com. So until next time,
00:37:46.099 --> 00:37:49.420
communicate with intention, think long -term,
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.360
and build connections that become your greatest
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:56.079
competitive advantage. Marcia, thank you so much
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:58.780
for coming on the podcast. You were a wonderful
00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:01.300
guest. Thank you. It was a pleasure to be here.
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:11.940
insights today. And of course, a big shout out
00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:15.260
to you, our amazing listeners, for tuning in
00:38:15.260 --> 00:38:18.159
and spending your time with us. If you're interested
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:21.500
in my digital courses, being coached or having
00:38:21.500 --> 00:38:24.639
me come and talk to your company, just go to
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:27.860
Michael and fill out the request form. Remember,
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:31.500
networking isn't about being perfect. It's about
00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:34.440
being present. So take what you've learned today,
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:37.239
get out there and make some meaningful connections.
00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:40.880
If you've enjoyed this episode, please don't
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:44.219
forget to subscribe. Leave us a review and share
00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:46.440
it with someone who could use a little networking
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:49.440
inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going.
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:54.159
You can find me on Apple, Spotify, Pandora, YouTube,
00:38:54.300 --> 00:39:03.010
or my website, foreman .com slash podcasts. Oh,
00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:06.869
I would like to welcome you to the Fusion Alliance
00:39:06.869 --> 00:39:11.139
Business Expo 2. That's right. We're having another
00:39:11.139 --> 00:39:14.539
networking expo. Now, this one is going to be
00:39:14.539 --> 00:39:17.320
even better than the first one in March. This
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:21.639
one is October 22nd, held at Iphone Restaurant
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.639
and Event Center, 6000 Medlock Bridge Parkway,
00:39:25.780 --> 00:39:30.000
Georgia. Now, this is your chance. This is your
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.699
chance to showcase your business, connect with
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:36.500
the community, and gain unmatched exposure. This
00:39:36.500 --> 00:39:39.699
event is designed to highlight your thriving
00:39:39.699 --> 00:39:43.039
business and is a must -attend gathering for
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:47.440
most local leaders and entrepreneurs. So now
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.099
what is there going to be? First of all, it's
00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:53.340
free admission to the public. So come one, come
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:56.119
all. There's going to be a large audience to
00:39:56.119 --> 00:39:58.960
see your business. You're going to gain new customers,
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:03.139
build your brand, and establish strategic partnerships.
00:40:04.730 --> 00:40:06.730
Whether you're looking to gain new customers,
00:40:07.110 --> 00:40:10.610
build your brand, or establish strategic partnerships,
00:40:11.409 --> 00:40:15.489
Business Expo 2 is the place to be. Don't miss
00:40:15.489 --> 00:40:18.289
your chance to be part of this exclusive annual
00:40:18.289 --> 00:40:22.429
showcase of Johns Creek's best businesses. Remember,
00:40:22.670 --> 00:40:27.409
it's October 22nd. Remember that. October 22nd,
00:40:27.409 --> 00:40:31.369
between the hours of 11 a .m. and 4 p .m. The
00:40:31.369 --> 00:40:35.750
location? 6 ,000 Medlock Bridge Parkway, Johns
00:40:35.750 --> 00:40:40.269
Creek. You can go to the website, and it's www
00:40:40.269 --> 00:40:47.349
.fusionalliance .info. F -U -S -I -O -N -A -L
00:40:47.349 --> 00:40:52.010
-L -I -A -N -C -E .info. You can get all of it
00:40:52.010 --> 00:40:54.469
there. You can be a vendor. You can be a sponsor.
00:40:54.710 --> 00:40:57.570
Or if you want, you can just come on and enjoy
00:40:57.570 --> 00:41:00.230
it. So come on down. Everyone else is going to
00:41:00.230 --> 00:41:02.519
be there. And just... Enjoy yourself.