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Happily enough, I was in a lovely villa over in Greece on a holiday with family for a few weeks.
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Most normal people would be enjoying the beach, enjoying the pool, and I definitely dabbled in that.
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I spent a lot of time just going, so hang on, you're telling me there's an owner out there that has this property, they get to use it whenever they want.
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When they're not there, they're getting to monetize that property.
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It's a wonderful introduction into the world of flexible living for me, and that's sort of where I found the passion for short-term renters.
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There's a huge, huge amount of pressure to continue to deliver revenue and occupancy at scale.
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When it comes down to competing buildings, perhaps a slight undersupply of students, and more students choosing to live flexibly operate as a need to remain scrappy and start getting creative and innovative around how they can continually fill up their buildings.
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And these buildings, they're designed for long-term tenants typically.
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What do you need to change in order to make them support shorter states?
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It's not about taking stock off the market and fundamentally having these operators change their business model.
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It's around.
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Property management at scale is about more than just rent roles and maintenance calls.
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It's about protecting your assets, delivering stellar guest experiences, and scaling operations without losing quality.
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Welcome to Minute by Minute, the show where industry leaders share unfiltered stories, proven strategies, and real solutions for operating at scale.
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I'm your host, Niels Mathison, CEO of Minute, and together we will dive deep into what it really takes to keep your properties safe, efficient, and protected.
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Let's get started.
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Today I'm joined by Tom Fisher, co-founder and CEO of Block Shortstays.
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Through Block, he works with asset owners and managers in the build-to-rent, student housing, and co-living sectors to solve the problem of empty units between tenancies.
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Before founding Block, Tom gained hands on operational experience managing large portfolios at La Wanda, including coordinating operations across hundreds of properties throughout the UK.
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He's also the author of The Short Letter, A Monthly Look at What's Happening in the UK and Ireland's shortstay industry.
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In this conversation, we explored what build-to-rent and student housing operators are turning to shortstays, the role shortstays will play in these buildings over the next five years, and how getting on a plane can be the best sales tool.
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Tom, welcome to Minute by Minute.
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Thank you, Niels.
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It's wonderful to be here.
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Really, really honored to be a guest on the podcast.
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Thanks for having me.
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It's really, very good.
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You've worked across both shortstay operations and institutional property portfolios.
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What drew you into this sort of flexible rental space?
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I think it's it's very interesting.
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I have a lot of contacts and friends who come from all manners of backgrounds into our industry.
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I think everyone seems to either trip into it, uh, no one seems to be too intentional about it.
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Myself, I come from an engineering background.
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So as an engineer, worked a couple of years in in the industry.
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I just really didn't feel the love for that industry.
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It wasn't fast-paced enough for me, it wasn't dynamic enough.
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Uh, I had the pleasure of growing up in the Middle East.
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So I was surrounded with friends uh who had mothers and fathers who were incredibly successful entrepreneurs.
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I was always very inspired.
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Um, so so when I reached that point in my career with engineering where I was like, it doesn't feel like a fit for me, I sort of took some time off to sort of reflect.
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And um happened happily enough, I was in a lovely villa over in Greece on a holiday with family for a few weeks.
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And most normal people would be enjoying the beach, enjoying the pool.
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And I definitely dabbled in that.
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But uh, I spent a lot of time just going, so hang on, you're telling me there's an owner out there that has this property, they get to use it whenever they want, but when they're not there, they're getting to monetize that property.
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And it sort of just was a wonderful introduction into the world of flexible living for me.
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And that's sort of where I found the passion for short-term rentals.
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And uh, that's obviously the the itch that I needed to scratch, and that's obviously 10, 12 years later, and I'm still within the industry, and it's such a wonderful, fluid and friendly industry to be a part of, isn't it?
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Yeah, I love it.
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And you're exactly right that it is an industry of entrepreneurs, like everyone starts almost like a like a hustler, and like um they are seeing an opportunity and then they're they're starting to work.
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And then I think it is a very friendly industry because it's not so competitive, actually.
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Like uh, you know, one property manager doesn't necessarily have to compete with another in a different market.
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So that makes it very collaborative, and I think that is what makes people people stay.
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I I agree, and and I had the pleasure of going to a couple of conferences at the end of the last year, and it reminded me just how welcoming and friendly and open to sharing you know business practices and ideas, and and uh, you know, I I I I would I would guess that's probably rare across most industries, but I'm I'm very proud to be part of our industry where a lot of people are open to that.
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Yeah, it's wonderful.
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And you're now CEO and founder of Block, and you offer turnkey short-state property management to build-to-rent and uh student housing uh accommodation.
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Um, where did this idea for Block come from?
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So I've always kept in contact with the with the industry.
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I've you know I've worked across various different um software providers, much like Minute, to solve problems within short-term rental businesses.
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My time at Levanda, you know, they were an incredibly powerful business, a successful business within Built Arent and PBSA.
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And I got a glimmer of that sort of in the last year of my time there.
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Um and I think I took some time away to really sort of think about, you know, I want to start a business.
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I was very passionate about that.
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Um, but I think for me, knowing the hum of those operations rooms and just how intense it was, I think for me it was always around if I'm gonna start a property management business, it needs to be a niche within a niche.
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I need to find something that I can really invest my time into.
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I think at both ends of the scale, if we specifically look at the small end, there are incredibly successful businesses, you know, in local markets that really dominate that market, know the market and provide for those guests.
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So for me, it was about finding a business that I was passionate about and knew about.
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And built around and PBC for me was a really interesting market.
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Um, there wasn't a huge amount of competition, and I really saw space for another operator to come in and really define um a business around specifically solving that solution.
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Um, Deanna and myself we've had the pleasure of building a business and software and team to specifically solve that need.
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And can you talk about like why are student housing owners or build-to-rent owners interested in short stay strategies?
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With these maturing asset classes, um, there's a huge, huge amount of pressure to continue to deliver revenue and occupancy at scale, especially in maturing markets.
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Uh PBSA is a little bit more ahead of the times than build-to-rent, but build-to-rent is very quickly on the heels.
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Um, but in some markets, we're seeing an dare I say, an oversupply of buildings.
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So when it comes down to you know competing buildings and perhaps a slight undersupply of students and more students choosing to live flexibly, operators are needing to remain scrappy and start getting creative and innovative around how they can continually fill up their buildings.
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And short-term rentals is um definitely one of those solutions that they're exploring.
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And I think if you add in sort of potential regulation changes with the renters' right bill, you know, operators are going to need to remain nimble to ever adapting buildings.
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You know, we're gonna see more and more tenants leaving buildings unexpectedly.
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With within PBSA, we're seeing because of this competition, a lot of um uh evolution in the lengths of contracts that are being offered.
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You know, not everyone is able to secure a whole building on 49, 50-week contracts, you know, they're now moving more towards 45, 44-week contracts.
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So it leaves this gap that they need to fill.
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Um, and their businesses are set up to attract, you know, some are students and some are business, but you know, filling three to four hundred rooms is can be a lot.
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And that's where short-term rentals can potentially plug that gap.
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And these buildings, they're designed for long-term tenants typically.
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Um, what do you need to change in order to make them support shorter stays?
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I think if we if we look at the asset and the asset class as a whole, short-term rentals are being considered, but considered in the context of a backup strategy.
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So when it comes to changing the buildings, um the amenities are already in place.
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They have fabulous gyms, fabulous pools.
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But where we see short-term rentals in the context of built-threatened PBSA is not about taking stock off the market and fundamentally having these operators change their business model.
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It's around helping them adapt their business model to better cater for the realities of operations in in um in that building of short-term tenants, right?
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When you think of built-threaten and PBSA, they're a lot more of a traditional real estate asset class.
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The the way they staff the buildings, the software that they use, the momentum that they move within is very different to the way that our industry works.
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We're much more aligned with the hospitality world.
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You know, the the expectations of guests are very, very different.
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You know, if you look at a tenant that's in the building moving in for say six to 12 months, their expectations of you know, what to expect from the reception and you know how quickly issues are going to be resolved are fundamentally very different to a business, uh a businessman that's in stay for two nights and they've got a very important business meeting the next morning when they need to iron their shirt.
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You know, that's a very different type of guests.
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So when we look at like adapting the the buildings to solve this this need, uh that's why we from day one have always taken a human-led approach to to this.
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We're one of the few operators out there that staff these buildings with our staff to solve these issues.
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We we become an extension to the site teams uh uh resource.
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You know, we we uh take a lot of the workload off of them, if not in many places, most and all of the workload off of these uh these site teams.
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So we can fundamentally solve the issues of short-term stays whilst allowing these buildings to focus on their primary revenue strategy, which is long-term tenants, long-term students.
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So to sort of circle it back, we don't foresee the buildings necessarily changing, we just foresee uh you know some of these buildings adapting to work with partners with like block to solve those needs.
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A theme on this podcast has been that uh as the short-term short-term industry has has matured, guest expectations have always been higher and higher and higher.
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Like we have some uh some customers at Minute that do similar things to you, that they have like uh BBSA assets that operate in one way during term time and then uh uh like a short stay during summers and when students aren't there.
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And what we've often seen it lead to is actually um a higher standard in the building, because you want to have those uh amenities, maybe like a cafe and maybe um um a gym, like you were saying.
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And it seems to me that it's actually elevating the standard for the traditional asset class as well.
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Would you say that that's also true on like if you if you zoom out, like if you zoom out and look at the short-term rental industry, guest expectations are going up and up and up and up, and operators have to respond.
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Is that same thing through true for um build-to-rent and and and PBSA?
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It's it's a really interesting question.
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I think specifically in build to rent, I had been to multiple conferences on on this fact, and there needs to be buildings for every renter, right?
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There will be renters that are looking for an ultra-premium, ultra luxurious, you know, sewing pool, um, spa, everything under the sun kind of thing.
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And there will absolutely be buildings that will fill up and solve for those.
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But there also needs to be buildings um that you know are a fantastic place to live, a wonderful community, but not necessarily with all the the amenities.
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There needs to be a building for every, I don't want to say buyer, but renter, so to speak.
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And and I think that's also one of the things where we've seen a lot of success at Block, where if you look at perhaps non-traditional markets for short-term rentals like Sheffield, for example, what we what we have the chance with Block to do with within Built to Rental PBSA is bring assets to market to Airbnb, to booking.com, to offer to guests, which you know are very different to what's on there already.
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And if maybe they were considering uh a travel lodge on Booking.com, but they don't quite like the idea of spending all that money for you know three or four nights, and also they want the ability to cook a nice meal.
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And what we offer as as with the builder and and where we have permission in PBSA, we offer these guests the ability to have a really nice stay in a nice building in a market that otherwise wouldn't wouldn't exist.
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Uh a building wouldn't exist on that market if they weren't using short-term rentals to uh to to you know define guests from.
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And in a short-term rental environment, of course, the the turnaround tends to be pretty quick.
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Like you can take a booking in the morning and you have a guest arriving in the in the in the afternoon.
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You launched a student-only site this year, uh, as I understand it.
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And you were man you managed to cut the the average time for onboarding and the first guest arrival is in just a couple of weeks.
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Is is that faster pace also sort of coming from the the short-term rental culture and and improving things on the BBSA side?
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Uh no, I I would actually look at it from a different angle.
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I would look at it if you the the the very nature of doing business within PBSA and built-to-rent, the the deal cycles that we we are following is you know, they're not your typical homeowner that might make a decision within one to two weeks.
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You know, we're talking six months as a minimum.
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Oftentimes it's a year plus for us from first meeting to actually receiving a signed contract.
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So I look back to my engineering time, and I've also had the pleasure of working at a lot of very interesting businesses.
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Um, Muse being one of them, where I was a process manager for the sales team and kind of getting deals realized, that time to value.
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One of the reasons Block has such a focus on getting these sites live is because we invest so much time and effort to get that organization that operates to the point where they're happy to sign with us.
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The worst thing we can do then, after all that time and effort, is to then drop the ball and take six to seven weeks to onboard and get that building live.
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Like the first thing that is number one priority is getting that first guest, um, getting that first bum in the bed, so to speak.
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Um, so that's why Tiana and I, we've built the team around solving that problem, getting that site online, you know, listing it on all the platforms in a timely fashion, getting the photography done, getting the on-site furnishings put in place, getting the site teams briefed in a very, very timely fashion.
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There's a lot that goes into that, into that cocktail to make it work, and we're very proud of that metric of 13 days.
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Um, and you know, we're we're working a lot more to make that even faster.
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Um, but I think just at a high level, every business should be focusing on avoiding that dip between contract sign and and first value of that of that guest.
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And uh, you know, that's definitely something everyone should be focusing on.
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Yeah, it sounds fairly like a general insight, really.
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Like uh that's something could be applied to any any entrepreneur.
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You wanna make sure your uh your customers get what they pay for as soon as they as soon as you can.
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Um so that's a great learning from Muse.
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Uh and you've also spent time at Lavanda where you managed uh 600 properties across the UK.
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Are there some lessons from that that you're now uh applying at Block?
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Absolutely.
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Um I had the the pleasure of joining Lavanda, sort of at the tail end of them being a full-time operator.
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Um they had about 600 properties across London at the time.
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And I remember walking into a room full of you know incredible people, um, you know, cleaning teams, maintenance teams, driver and logistics coordinators, account managers, guest communications, onboarding staff.
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And it was wonderful to be a part of that world, that buzz, that operational buzz, um, in the trenches, I guess you could say.
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And I really saw the firsthand, I really saw the impact that people can have as part of delivering what we do at scale.
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And that's definitely been a lesson for me in in launching block.
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You know, I've always been hesitant to start a property management business because I've always been like, if we're gonna do this, we're gonna do it right.
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And um, you know, we've definitely applied those licensing block.
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You know, we we always say to our, to our to our clients or partners, we say, we're only as good as our last claim.
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I learned a lot from from being at Levanda.
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I think one of my I wouldn't necessarily call it a highlight because you know, no one ever likes to look at a break-in situation, but I think I truly saw the impact that that people and a really well-oiled operations team can have when um I was on a on a weekend uh duty manager role.
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We were sort of a skeleton staff over the weekend, and unfortunately, um for for the homeowner, there'd been a break-in.
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Uh, the homeowner was abroad, um, but the property that we were managing at the time, um for whatever reason, someone had tried to break in overnight.
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There was glass everywhere, and it was it was a damage.
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And for me, it was a wonderful thing to be a part of to see the people all come together.
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You know, we had people in a taxi to go and secure the site straight away.
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We had the operation, the maintenance team spinning up their local network of contractors to get over there.
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We had the guests communications team looking at the diary to see you know which guests were coming in that week.
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And it was wonderful to be a part of, you know, no one ever likes a break-in and it's not ever something to be happy about.
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But in that moment, it was wonderful to see how that team reacted.
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And that's uh a big part of the culture that we're building up block.
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You know, we we make mistakes, we learn from them, and it's always just important about when things do go wrong, it's how you respond to them that are the most important thing.
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So yeah, I took a lot of a lot of um good lessons from Levinder.
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Did you notice any sort of gaps in how different teams were into uh were were using the tools?
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Like how do you make sure that cleaners and maintenance teams, for example, work as one team rather than disparate ones?
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I think in general, across all softwares, we're seeing this diet this sort of coming together of tooling to support um teams across multiple functions.
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Um Lavander software, you know, I've not seen it for many, many years, but at the time it was it was a fantastic piece of kit that was enabling Levanda as a team, operation team, to do this.
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Sort of the gaps will always remain in my mind around the people behind the software, the people in the process, so to speak.
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If you've not got the right people in place, if you've not got the right processes in place, it doesn't matter how good your software is, it doesn't matter how many API connections you have and how many two-way syncs you've got, you know, if people in your team are doing things differently, or there's different expectations, or perhaps not everyone's trained to the same level, there there is this ability for quote unquote software to let you down, and actually it can be the team behind that software.
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Um, so it's just really important that um, you know, speaking as a process manager, um, you know, uh a lot of colleagues at Muse will will love, you know, all of my they they fondly think back to my process max and my why whiteboard sessions, but it's all about looking at the tech stack you have and making it work the best you can for your for your instance, your business.
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Yeah.
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So so from that vantage point, like you've seen, you know, Muse is like serious software infrastructure, and of course Lavanda as well, um a bit closer to the closer to the metal, maybe.
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And then you have your your current experience as block.
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When you look to the future, like what do you think the next generation of tools for flexible rental management will look like?
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I think we're already seeing it.
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We're seeing it, you know, um, there's a huge amount of talk, investment, experimentation with how AI can um impact our business model.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.680
We we ourselves at Block are experimenting with it to some degree.
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:24.480
Um, and I think it's only going to get better and better, especially as agentic AI workflows take more and more of the reins of the the busy work, so to speak.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.920
There's a lot of property managers looking across different PMSs.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:38.079
Boom is a really interesting one that a lot are keeping tabs on because fundamentally to their their PMS, they're building AI directly into it to solve those issues.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.319
Um so it's definitely one to watch.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:47.519
I think there's a lot of talk about AI uh in general across every industry, especially never more so in our industry.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.960
I think we have to remind ourselves as an industry at our core, we're a hospitality business.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:18.160
And we really need to focus on empowering our people to be at the forefront of delivering that guest experience and and look at software about unburdening our teams and staff from the parts of the job that you know can be automated or don't necessarily lend to a human doing it because where we're greatest and where block our team, there we're a wonderful community of people.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:25.359
We we do our best work when we speak to our clients directly and and solve those issues and get on the phone and and that sort of thing.
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:31.920
So I think AI will play a huge part, but we need to balance it with you know people at the heart of that process.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:42.480
I think also what we've seen at Block as well, and what many others have seen is the whole where can you unburden parts of the role with software.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:49.759
So if you look at the guest communications and guests that we talked about, guest um expectations um already in this conversation, right?
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:59.599
Where, you know, if I'm arriving late at night, eight o'clock check in, I've got an important business meeting in the morning, you know, I want to know where the laundry room is or maybe where the iron is on on site.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:11.279
And you can do a lot of legwork without involving people, you know, through proper software by having really good guidebooks, um, information as accessible chatbots that can solve those little issues.
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:12.720
We've seen that ourselves.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:19.920
You know, we've we've implemented some really incredible um softwares to improve the guest experience over the last uh eight months here at Block.
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:25.839
And the very dynamic of what our guest communications team spend their time on has fundamentally changed.
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:32.480
You know, where previously they were doing those like responses to little things, and you know, this is how you operate the microwave and that sort of thing.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:38.480
It now becomes about where can our people spend time to um enrich the guest experience.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:50.640
Because I think what many of us forget in our world is that you know, the guest that stays in a building in, say, Sheffield, you know, they don't know they don't necessarily know what Sheffield is about, what to see in Sheffield.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:56.160
And I think there's a huge opportunity for software and people to deliver a better experience for guests.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:08.160
And you know, we go as far as to sort of recommend the the local restaurants and our favorite coffee shop in the area and really try and get that guest to experience and come away from that stay with an experience that they can take home.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.640
Oh, I had this fantastic coffee in this shop.
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:14.799
You know, you've got to go there next time you're in Sheffield or Hoventry or or so on and so forth.
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:23.839
Yeah, I think there's there's a huge amount of work, a huge amount of opportunity still within AI and software as we as we progress.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:28.799
But it sounds like the core of hospitality will will uh will stay the same.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:29.680
Definitely.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:38.480
Um you also write the short letter, a newsletter that looks at what's happening across the UK and Ireland um for the uh STR industry.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:40.960
Um why did you decide to create this?
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.640
Well, as I've said a few times, I'm I'm a data guy, I'm a process guy.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:49.680
I I love to dive into things to understand what we can learn, what insights we can share.
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.839
I'm constantly doing this with with our team, and you know, they're always getting messages to me.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.000
I've I've seen this, like what do you think to that?
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:57.519
And what can we learn from this?
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:14.720
And I think one of the reasons uh that excited me about starting block as a whole was uh uh was the need, specifically within PBC and Builds Rent to continue to educate around the use case of short-term rentals in in the industry, in within their business model.
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.960
Um, everyone I speak to, I have the pleasure of speaking to clients every week.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.880
And everyone seems to come at those calls from different angles.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:28.799
Some have never heard of short-term rentals, some have had a really bad experience, and some you know are ambivalent to it.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.279
Um and some have obviously installed value in it as well.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:25:01.839
So I saw the short letter as an opportunity for us to provide a means of education and insight into block as we build and try and build a little bit more in the open and share some of the learnings and best practices that we're seeing in, you know, simple things like you know, educating um our target clientele on you know key metrics that to us, you know, as anonymous, RevPAR is something that we're all aware of and familiar with, but necessarily in in the context of PBSN and built to rent, that isn't as directly obvious and the importance of chasing RevPAR.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:15.519
Um I thought it was an interesting vehicle to sort of put ourselves out there a little bit more and share what we're working on and you know, as best as we can educate on the wonders of short-term rentals, um, specifically within those use cases.
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:20.079
Are there any trends that you've uh uh picked up on recently?
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:51.359
I think from us it will be no news for any of us in the short-term rental world, but you know, the the booking, the booking lead times are drastically starting to shorten, um, which you know we're seeing, but it also creates a lot of opportunities for our clients, specifically in the PBSA world, where oftentimes, you know, in the spring they're looking at what we can do over the summer, they're realizing their group booking volumes aren't going to necessarily hit the mark in terms of occupancy.
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:57.680
Um, so you know, the trends of shortening booking times, uh, booking lead times, you know, actually in that case can work.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:09.759
We can take a building live within 13 days, we can get people in beds very quickly, and we're not sort of looking at, you know, we need to be live as soon as possible to make sure the building runs correctly.
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:17.039
Um, but this is one of those things where we're always trying to look at the data to see what lessons can be learned and shared specific to our audience.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:25.920
Another fantastic one is uh September is is it specifically in PBSA world, you know, that's the the intake for the new student year.
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:37.359
When operators look at the summer period, they're saying, well, actually, um, August is when we want block out of the building, we need to turn the building around for students, and absolutely we're going to work with them on that.
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:50.000
But this sort of looking at the data and sharing this insights, we've been able to sort of start educating our clients, saying, like, well, actually, September is a fantastic window for you to maintain a small handful of units still live within the building.
00:26:50.160 --> 00:27:00.079
Because if you still have occupancy gaps leading into semester one, you can offer those sort of students that are arriving early, looking for accommodation, a nice place to stay.
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:13.359
And what we've been very successful at doing is actually passing student guests on to our operational partners saying, hey, like this the student has tried the building, they've really enjoyed their stay, they want to renew long term, you know, over to you and go sign them.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:21.440
So there's absolutely benefit in um sharing the data within this this this whole kind of uh vehicle of the short letter and for everyone's benefit.
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:22.000
Yeah.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:33.200
Is there anything in the data that suggests that the UK and Ireland is some in in some cases maybe diverging from global markets or is are things moving in tandem?
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.960
I I would always look at the UK and Irish markets as two very separate things, first and foremost.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:48.240
I think um I'd also then go a step further and saying if we look at PBSA and built rent within those markets, they're also at very different stages.
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:55.200
You know, the UK is a lot more uh ahead of the times with PBSA that that sort of asset class is very mature.
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.839
Um, built rent is very quickly on the heels of that.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:05.599
Across Europe, there is definitely divergence, those markets are still catching up, but there's still a huge um interest in those asset classes.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:17.440
And that's what's exciting for as a block as we look at you know our continued expansion and kind of taking the lessons we've learned from the UK and Ireland and applying to other parts of Europe and eventually the world as well.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:24.240
And when you look ahead a bit, how do you think these assets owners will use short uh stays differently than today?
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:32.160
I think today we are very much seen as an add-on business, a uh worst case scenario, a plan B business.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.440
Uh, and that's totally fine.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.559
We've never not been, we've never not acknowledged that.
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:42.720
Um, you know, we always say congratulations to our clients when they say we need to take, you know, two floors back from a building.
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:44.559
And they're like, why are you saying congratulations?
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.440
We're saying, well, you've successfully you know filled the building with your primary revenue source, right?
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.319
So today we're seen as a bit of an add-on.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:29:02.319
You know, we're seeing buildings come to market and realize they're not going to get that initial mobilization windful of tenants that they expected.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.720
And we're then suddenly brought in as an emergency sort of backup procedure.
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:15.759
Where I hope the market will be in five, five years' time, and we're already starting to see this, is businesses looking at short-term rentals as as a as another arrow in their quiver.
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:26.160
You know, this is something that we can use when we're mobilizing a building for the first time, when we're releasing four to five hundred units to the market, it's we're not going to fill all of those rooms, those apartments straight away.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:35.759
Let's use short-term rentals to supply people to the building, potential renters to that building, but also provide revenue to and cash flow to that building.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:49.440
You know, when you have this injection of cash flow, um, you then have more money to reinvest in marketing or to supporting the team on site to ensuring they've got the budget to do their wonderful community events that make those communities so powerful.
00:29:49.680 --> 00:30:14.720
Um, so I think my hope for the next five years is that short-term rentals, through our education and kind of wider spread of it, that we become a bigger part of their fundamental business model in terms of taking a new business uh building to market, but as well as looking at how throughout the course of the building's lifecycle, seasonality, we talked about the sort of summer gap in students, sort of towards the end of that building's life cycle when it needs to be refurbished.
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:17.359
Like, what can we do with short-term rentals to fill those gaps?
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.680
So very much my hope that we become more integrated for sure.
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:29.359
So, given that trend or sort of that direction of travel, um, if you were to start block again today, what would you do differently?
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:34.720
It would absolutely to be realized to realize the sort of value of face-to-face interactions earlier.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:44.400
I think we I think the whole world has come off of COVID, which was six years ago now, where we're all it's okay to work online and do meetings like this.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:55.920
And it's very easy to forget just how impactful, you know, going around and meeting people face to face and shaking a coffee, not always with an agenda as well, just being like, hey, I'm really interested in meeting you and learning about your building.
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:08.240
And we've seen it time and time again where I've got in a car and just gone and seen people, existing clients that we work with, but also people that are curious about what we do or maybe have never heard about us at all before.
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:12.400
But they're like, yeah, it sounds like an interesting thing to look at.
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:16.799
So, you know, that's definitely something I would have loved to have realized a bit faster.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.839
Um, it's definitely helped with our sales cycles to do that.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.960
I think also just like putting the entrepreneur hat back on.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:30.559
Like we, I was at conferences last year where there was multiple people talking about burnout, and thankfully I've not, you know, experienced that yet.
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:35.599
But it's it's a very testing thing, entrepreneurialism.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:47.599
You know, when you're when you're an absolute workaholic, you know, it's so important to factor in downtime and because you need that resilience day in and day out to really just be able to show up, not just for yourself, but show up for your team and show off your clients.
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:56.160
And you know, I think the tendency with any new business is just to absolutely, you know, work and work and work as hard as you can, um, but to what detriment?
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:02.720
Um, so that's definitely something I would have uh loved to maybe been a bit more cognizant of in my first 12 months.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:16.240
Um but I think also just to sort of finish that one off as well, there is definitely the realization that things are always gonna take longer than you expect to close, especially in VillTrent and uh PBSA.
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.599
The deal cycles that we deal with are phenomenally long.
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.119
Um, and you know, it's never done until it's done.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:24.960
Um you just gotta have that patience.
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:29.359
Um, so definitely something I would have loved to have learned in the or been aware of in the first 12 months.
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:34.559
That's some uh good advice to our uh budding entrepreneurs in the uh in the audience.
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:35.920
Final question.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:39.920
Everyone in short term has a story where things didn't go quite to plan.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:45.759
Like, what's your like most unexpected uh challenge that that uh uh you've come across?
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:47.359
Oh, good great question.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.880
I think thinking back to last year, we um we were expanding into Ireland for the first time.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:58.960
And as I said, like we were used to much longer sales cycles, you know, six to twelve months as a minimum.
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:08.559
And um, we got a phone call um on I think it was Thursday from from the client saying, I've got gaps in my buildings, I just need a revenue source in our building.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.319
Short-term rentals looks fantastic.
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.960
You seem to fit all the criteria.
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.519
Can you come and meet with us and and do it?
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.200
So, you know, we spent I spent you know Thursday, Friday doing proposals.
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:21.039
We were on the phone Saturday, Sunday.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:24.640
I was on a plane on Monday morning to go meet with the client.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:30.640
Uh, we had a contract in hand, I think it was Tuesday, and then we had staff on site, you know, later that week.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:35.279
So for us, it was about you know turning, turning you know, everything around so quickly.
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:40.079
And we were we were caught off guard because you know our onboarding teams were elsewhere doing other things.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:48.559
So suddenly we found ourselves roping in, you know, Tiana and I fiancés and partners to come in and solve some of these some of these needs of getting this site live.
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:53.039
And it was it was great to sort of be in that buzz again of just like getting something live.
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:55.119
But it was definitely a crazy couple of weeks for us.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.480
But the site was live.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:02.319
I think we had our first guest about 15, 20 days after the signing of the contract.
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:06.799
Um, because we had to render like we had to furnish the building and get it live and and set it right.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.840
So it was a it was a it was a crazy couple of weeks to put it that way.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:11.039
Incredible.
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:17.760
I mean, uh there is uh there is an extended team that every entrepreneur relies on, and that is the family and the family of friends.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:18.800
That's uh just the truth.
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:20.159
It's been so great to have you, Tom.
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:21.920
Thank you so much for uh for joining.
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:23.199
Thank you so much for having me.
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.079
It's been a pleasure.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.159
Thank you for listening to Minute by Minute.
00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:31.760
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00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:38.480
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00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:42.400
To learn more about privacy first property protection, visit minute.com.
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:47.360
Until next time, make every minute count to maintain your property's safety.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.160
Happily enough, I was in a lovely villa over in Greece on a holiday with family for a few weeks.
00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:08.720
Most normal people would be enjoying the beach, enjoying the pool, and I definitely dabbled in that.
00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:16.399
I spent a lot of time just going, so hang on, you're telling me there's an owner out there that has this property, they get to use it whenever they want.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:18.879
When they're not there, they're getting to monetize that property.
00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:25.519
It's a wonderful introduction into the world of flexible living for me, and that's sort of where I found the passion for short-term renters.
00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:33.039
There's a huge, huge amount of pressure to continue to deliver revenue and occupancy at scale.
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:46.640
When it comes down to competing buildings, perhaps a slight undersupply of students, and more students choosing to live flexibly operate as a need to remain scrappy and start getting creative and innovative around how they can continually fill up their buildings.
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:51.920
And these buildings, they're designed for long-term tenants typically.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:55.759
What do you need to change in order to make them support shorter states?
00:00:56.079 --> 00:01:01.119
It's not about taking stock off the market and fundamentally having these operators change their business model.
00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:01.920
It's around.
00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:10.560
Property management at scale is about more than just rent roles and maintenance calls.
00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:16.879
It's about protecting your assets, delivering stellar guest experiences, and scaling operations without losing quality.
00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:24.959
Welcome to Minute by Minute, the show where industry leaders share unfiltered stories, proven strategies, and real solutions for operating at scale.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:33.680
I'm your host, Niels Mathison, CEO of Minute, and together we will dive deep into what it really takes to keep your properties safe, efficient, and protected.
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:35.120
Let's get started.
00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:40.560
Today I'm joined by Tom Fisher, co-founder and CEO of Block Shortstays.
00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:50.159
Through Block, he works with asset owners and managers in the build-to-rent, student housing, and co-living sectors to solve the problem of empty units between tenancies.
00:01:50.319 --> 00:02:00.879
Before founding Block, Tom gained hands on operational experience managing large portfolios at La Wanda, including coordinating operations across hundreds of properties throughout the UK.
00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:07.439
He's also the author of The Short Letter, A Monthly Look at What's Happening in the UK and Ireland's shortstay industry.
00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:19.599
In this conversation, we explored what build-to-rent and student housing operators are turning to shortstays, the role shortstays will play in these buildings over the next five years, and how getting on a plane can be the best sales tool.
00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:21.360
Tom, welcome to Minute by Minute.
00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:22.319
Thank you, Niels.
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:23.280
It's wonderful to be here.
00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:25.360
Really, really honored to be a guest on the podcast.
00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:26.159
Thanks for having me.
00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:26.879
It's really, very good.
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:31.759
You've worked across both shortstay operations and institutional property portfolios.
00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:34.879
What drew you into this sort of flexible rental space?
00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:36.800
I think it's it's very interesting.
00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:41.759
I have a lot of contacts and friends who come from all manners of backgrounds into our industry.
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:45.919
I think everyone seems to either trip into it, uh, no one seems to be too intentional about it.
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:48.319
Myself, I come from an engineering background.
00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:51.919
So as an engineer, worked a couple of years in in the industry.
00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:54.800
I just really didn't feel the love for that industry.
00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.840
It wasn't fast-paced enough for me, it wasn't dynamic enough.
00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:00.319
Uh, I had the pleasure of growing up in the Middle East.
00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:05.360
So I was surrounded with friends uh who had mothers and fathers who were incredibly successful entrepreneurs.
00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:06.879
I was always very inspired.
00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:14.879
Um, so so when I reached that point in my career with engineering where I was like, it doesn't feel like a fit for me, I sort of took some time off to sort of reflect.
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:22.080
And um happened happily enough, I was in a lovely villa over in Greece on a holiday with family for a few weeks.
00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:26.400
And most normal people would be enjoying the beach, enjoying the pool.
00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:27.759
And I definitely dabbled in that.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:40.400
But uh, I spent a lot of time just going, so hang on, you're telling me there's an owner out there that has this property, they get to use it whenever they want, but when they're not there, they're getting to monetize that property.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:44.960
And it sort of just was a wonderful introduction into the world of flexible living for me.
00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.719
And that's sort of where I found the passion for short-term rentals.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:59.120
And uh, that's obviously the the itch that I needed to scratch, and that's obviously 10, 12 years later, and I'm still within the industry, and it's such a wonderful, fluid and friendly industry to be a part of, isn't it?
00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:00.080
Yeah, I love it.
00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:11.520
And you're exactly right that it is an industry of entrepreneurs, like everyone starts almost like a like a hustler, and like um they are seeing an opportunity and then they're they're starting to work.
00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:17.360
And then I think it is a very friendly industry because it's not so competitive, actually.
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:22.560
Like uh, you know, one property manager doesn't necessarily have to compete with another in a different market.
00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:26.959
So that makes it very collaborative, and I think that is what makes people people stay.
00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:48.879
I I agree, and and I had the pleasure of going to a couple of conferences at the end of the last year, and it reminded me just how welcoming and friendly and open to sharing you know business practices and ideas, and and uh, you know, I I I I would I would guess that's probably rare across most industries, but I'm I'm very proud to be part of our industry where a lot of people are open to that.
00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:50.160
Yeah, it's wonderful.
00:04:50.480 --> 00:05:01.120
And you're now CEO and founder of Block, and you offer turnkey short-state property management to build-to-rent and uh student housing uh accommodation.
00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:03.600
Um, where did this idea for Block come from?
00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:06.959
So I've always kept in contact with the with the industry.
00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:15.120
I've you know I've worked across various different um software providers, much like Minute, to solve problems within short-term rental businesses.
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:21.839
My time at Levanda, you know, they were an incredibly powerful business, a successful business within Built Arent and PBSA.
00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:26.079
And I got a glimmer of that sort of in the last year of my time there.
00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:32.000
Um and I think I took some time away to really sort of think about, you know, I want to start a business.
00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:33.920
I was very passionate about that.
00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:45.519
Um, but I think for me, knowing the hum of those operations rooms and just how intense it was, I think for me it was always around if I'm gonna start a property management business, it needs to be a niche within a niche.
00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:49.120
I need to find something that I can really invest my time into.
00:05:49.279 --> 00:06:00.480
I think at both ends of the scale, if we specifically look at the small end, there are incredibly successful businesses, you know, in local markets that really dominate that market, know the market and provide for those guests.
00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:06.879
So for me, it was about finding a business that I was passionate about and knew about.
00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:10.959
And built around and PBC for me was a really interesting market.
00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:21.680
Um, there wasn't a huge amount of competition, and I really saw space for another operator to come in and really define um a business around specifically solving that solution.
00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:29.199
Um, Deanna and myself we've had the pleasure of building a business and software and team to specifically solve that need.
00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:37.199
And can you talk about like why are student housing owners or build-to-rent owners interested in short stay strategies?
00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:48.879
With these maturing asset classes, um, there's a huge, huge amount of pressure to continue to deliver revenue and occupancy at scale, especially in maturing markets.
00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:54.399
Uh PBSA is a little bit more ahead of the times than build-to-rent, but build-to-rent is very quickly on the heels.
00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.600
Um, but in some markets, we're seeing an dare I say, an oversupply of buildings.
00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:15.519
So when it comes down to you know competing buildings and perhaps a slight undersupply of students and more students choosing to live flexibly, operators are needing to remain scrappy and start getting creative and innovative around how they can continually fill up their buildings.
00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:21.519
And short-term rentals is um definitely one of those solutions that they're exploring.
00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:30.800
And I think if you add in sort of potential regulation changes with the renters' right bill, you know, operators are going to need to remain nimble to ever adapting buildings.
00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:34.560
You know, we're gonna see more and more tenants leaving buildings unexpectedly.
00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:45.360
With within PBSA, we're seeing because of this competition, a lot of um uh evolution in the lengths of contracts that are being offered.
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:55.120
You know, not everyone is able to secure a whole building on 49, 50-week contracts, you know, they're now moving more towards 45, 44-week contracts.
00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.000
So it leaves this gap that they need to fill.
00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:07.360
Um, and their businesses are set up to attract, you know, some are students and some are business, but you know, filling three to four hundred rooms is can be a lot.
00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.560
And that's where short-term rentals can potentially plug that gap.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:15.519
And these buildings, they're designed for long-term tenants typically.
00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:20.160
Um, what do you need to change in order to make them support shorter stays?
00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:29.920
I think if we if we look at the asset and the asset class as a whole, short-term rentals are being considered, but considered in the context of a backup strategy.
00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:36.240
So when it comes to changing the buildings, um the amenities are already in place.
00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:38.559
They have fabulous gyms, fabulous pools.
00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:47.840
But where we see short-term rentals in the context of built-threatened PBSA is not about taking stock off the market and fundamentally having these operators change their business model.
00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:58.480
It's around helping them adapt their business model to better cater for the realities of operations in in um in that building of short-term tenants, right?
00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:04.639
When you think of built-threaten and PBSA, they're a lot more of a traditional real estate asset class.
00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:11.679
The the way they staff the buildings, the software that they use, the momentum that they move within is very different to the way that our industry works.
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.399
We're much more aligned with the hospitality world.
00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.919
You know, the the expectations of guests are very, very different.
00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:39.759
You know, if you look at a tenant that's in the building moving in for say six to 12 months, their expectations of you know, what to expect from the reception and you know how quickly issues are going to be resolved are fundamentally very different to a business, uh a businessman that's in stay for two nights and they've got a very important business meeting the next morning when they need to iron their shirt.
00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:42.000
You know, that's a very different type of guests.
00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:53.679
So when we look at like adapting the the buildings to solve this this need, uh that's why we from day one have always taken a human-led approach to to this.
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:58.799
We're one of the few operators out there that staff these buildings with our staff to solve these issues.
00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:03.679
We we become an extension to the site teams uh uh resource.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:12.000
You know, we we uh take a lot of the workload off of them, if not in many places, most and all of the workload off of these uh these site teams.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:22.720
So we can fundamentally solve the issues of short-term stays whilst allowing these buildings to focus on their primary revenue strategy, which is long-term tenants, long-term students.
00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:37.039
So to sort of circle it back, we don't foresee the buildings necessarily changing, we just foresee uh you know some of these buildings adapting to work with partners with like block to solve those needs.
00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:47.919
A theme on this podcast has been that uh as the short-term short-term industry has has matured, guest expectations have always been higher and higher and higher.
00:10:48.159 --> 00:11:03.519
Like we have some uh some customers at Minute that do similar things to you, that they have like uh BBSA assets that operate in one way during term time and then uh uh like a short stay during summers and when students aren't there.
00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:17.519
And what we've often seen it lead to is actually um a higher standard in the building, because you want to have those uh amenities, maybe like a cafe and maybe um um a gym, like you were saying.
00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:25.120
And it seems to me that it's actually elevating the standard for the traditional asset class as well.
00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:35.440
Would you say that that's also true on like if you if you zoom out, like if you zoom out and look at the short-term rental industry, guest expectations are going up and up and up and up, and operators have to respond.
00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:41.759
Is that same thing through true for um build-to-rent and and and PBSA?
00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:44.639
It's it's a really interesting question.
00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:54.320
I think specifically in build to rent, I had been to multiple conferences on on this fact, and there needs to be buildings for every renter, right?
00:11:54.399 --> 00:12:02.799
There will be renters that are looking for an ultra-premium, ultra luxurious, you know, sewing pool, um, spa, everything under the sun kind of thing.
00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:06.480
And there will absolutely be buildings that will fill up and solve for those.
00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:15.519
But there also needs to be buildings um that you know are a fantastic place to live, a wonderful community, but not necessarily with all the the amenities.
00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:19.519
There needs to be a building for every, I don't want to say buyer, but renter, so to speak.
00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:42.159
And and I think that's also one of the things where we've seen a lot of success at Block, where if you look at perhaps non-traditional markets for short-term rentals like Sheffield, for example, what we what we have the chance with Block to do with within Built to Rental PBSA is bring assets to market to Airbnb, to booking.com, to offer to guests, which you know are very different to what's on there already.
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:54.080
And if maybe they were considering uh a travel lodge on Booking.com, but they don't quite like the idea of spending all that money for you know three or four nights, and also they want the ability to cook a nice meal.
00:12:54.159 --> 00:13:07.039
And what we offer as as with the builder and and where we have permission in PBSA, we offer these guests the ability to have a really nice stay in a nice building in a market that otherwise wouldn't wouldn't exist.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:13.200
Uh a building wouldn't exist on that market if they weren't using short-term rentals to uh to to you know define guests from.
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.120
And in a short-term rental environment, of course, the the turnaround tends to be pretty quick.
00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:21.200
Like you can take a booking in the morning and you have a guest arriving in the in the in the afternoon.
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:25.360
You launched a student-only site this year, uh, as I understand it.
00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:32.799
And you were man you managed to cut the the average time for onboarding and the first guest arrival is in just a couple of weeks.
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:41.759
Is is that faster pace also sort of coming from the the short-term rental culture and and improving things on the BBSA side?
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:44.320
Uh no, I I would actually look at it from a different angle.
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:58.000
I would look at it if you the the the very nature of doing business within PBSA and built-to-rent, the the deal cycles that we we are following is you know, they're not your typical homeowner that might make a decision within one to two weeks.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.799
You know, we're talking six months as a minimum.
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:06.639
Oftentimes it's a year plus for us from first meeting to actually receiving a signed contract.
00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:13.120
So I look back to my engineering time, and I've also had the pleasure of working at a lot of very interesting businesses.
00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:22.159
Um, Muse being one of them, where I was a process manager for the sales team and kind of getting deals realized, that time to value.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:34.799
One of the reasons Block has such a focus on getting these sites live is because we invest so much time and effort to get that organization that operates to the point where they're happy to sign with us.
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.759
The worst thing we can do then, after all that time and effort, is to then drop the ball and take six to seven weeks to onboard and get that building live.
00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:48.159
Like the first thing that is number one priority is getting that first guest, um, getting that first bum in the bed, so to speak.
00:14:48.320 --> 00:15:03.840
Um, so that's why Tiana and I, we've built the team around solving that problem, getting that site online, you know, listing it on all the platforms in a timely fashion, getting the photography done, getting the on-site furnishings put in place, getting the site teams briefed in a very, very timely fashion.
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:09.679
There's a lot that goes into that, into that cocktail to make it work, and we're very proud of that metric of 13 days.
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.600
Um, and you know, we're we're working a lot more to make that even faster.
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:24.159
Um, but I think just at a high level, every business should be focusing on avoiding that dip between contract sign and and first value of that of that guest.
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.960
And uh, you know, that's definitely something everyone should be focusing on.
00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:29.759
Yeah, it sounds fairly like a general insight, really.
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.799
Like uh that's something could be applied to any any entrepreneur.
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:37.600
You wanna make sure your uh your customers get what they pay for as soon as they as soon as you can.
00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:40.000
Um so that's a great learning from Muse.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:46.000
Uh and you've also spent time at Lavanda where you managed uh 600 properties across the UK.
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:49.919
Are there some lessons from that that you're now uh applying at Block?
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:51.279
Absolutely.
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:57.120
Um I had the the pleasure of joining Lavanda, sort of at the tail end of them being a full-time operator.
00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:00.399
Um they had about 600 properties across London at the time.
00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:14.639
And I remember walking into a room full of you know incredible people, um, you know, cleaning teams, maintenance teams, driver and logistics coordinators, account managers, guest communications, onboarding staff.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:21.759
And it was wonderful to be a part of that world, that buzz, that operational buzz, um, in the trenches, I guess you could say.
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:30.320
And I really saw the firsthand, I really saw the impact that people can have as part of delivering what we do at scale.
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.600
And that's definitely been a lesson for me in in launching block.
00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:39.840
You know, I've always been hesitant to start a property management business because I've always been like, if we're gonna do this, we're gonna do it right.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.200
And um, you know, we've definitely applied those licensing block.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:48.399
You know, we we always say to our, to our to our clients or partners, we say, we're only as good as our last claim.
00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.039
I learned a lot from from being at Levanda.
00:16:51.279 --> 00:17:09.200
I think one of my I wouldn't necessarily call it a highlight because you know, no one ever likes to look at a break-in situation, but I think I truly saw the impact that that people and a really well-oiled operations team can have when um I was on a on a weekend uh duty manager role.
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:14.480
We were sort of a skeleton staff over the weekend, and unfortunately, um for for the homeowner, there'd been a break-in.
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:21.839
Uh, the homeowner was abroad, um, but the property that we were managing at the time, um for whatever reason, someone had tried to break in overnight.
00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:23.920
There was glass everywhere, and it was it was a damage.
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:30.960
And for me, it was a wonderful thing to be a part of to see the people all come together.
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:34.400
You know, we had people in a taxi to go and secure the site straight away.
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:39.519
We had the operation, the maintenance team spinning up their local network of contractors to get over there.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:44.799
We had the guests communications team looking at the diary to see you know which guests were coming in that week.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:50.400
And it was wonderful to be a part of, you know, no one ever likes a break-in and it's not ever something to be happy about.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.200
But in that moment, it was wonderful to see how that team reacted.
00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:58.799
And that's uh a big part of the culture that we're building up block.
00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:06.720
You know, we we make mistakes, we learn from them, and it's always just important about when things do go wrong, it's how you respond to them that are the most important thing.
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.480
So yeah, I took a lot of a lot of um good lessons from Levinder.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:17.200
Did you notice any sort of gaps in how different teams were into uh were were using the tools?
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:23.359
Like how do you make sure that cleaners and maintenance teams, for example, work as one team rather than disparate ones?
00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:34.079
I think in general, across all softwares, we're seeing this diet this sort of coming together of tooling to support um teams across multiple functions.
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:44.880
Um Lavander software, you know, I've not seen it for many, many years, but at the time it was it was a fantastic piece of kit that was enabling Levanda as a team, operation team, to do this.
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:52.000
Sort of the gaps will always remain in my mind around the people behind the software, the people in the process, so to speak.
00:18:52.079 --> 00:19:17.200
If you've not got the right people in place, if you've not got the right processes in place, it doesn't matter how good your software is, it doesn't matter how many API connections you have and how many two-way syncs you've got, you know, if people in your team are doing things differently, or there's different expectations, or perhaps not everyone's trained to the same level, there there is this ability for quote unquote software to let you down, and actually it can be the team behind that software.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:38.160
Um, so it's just really important that um, you know, speaking as a process manager, um, you know, uh a lot of colleagues at Muse will will love, you know, all of my they they fondly think back to my process max and my why whiteboard sessions, but it's all about looking at the tech stack you have and making it work the best you can for your for your instance, your business.
00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:38.720
Yeah.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:48.720
So so from that vantage point, like you've seen, you know, Muse is like serious software infrastructure, and of course Lavanda as well, um a bit closer to the closer to the metal, maybe.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.519
And then you have your your current experience as block.
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:59.440
When you look to the future, like what do you think the next generation of tools for flexible rental management will look like?
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:00.960
I think we're already seeing it.
00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:11.599
We're seeing it, you know, um, there's a huge amount of talk, investment, experimentation with how AI can um impact our business model.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.680
We we ourselves at Block are experimenting with it to some degree.
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:24.480
Um, and I think it's only going to get better and better, especially as agentic AI workflows take more and more of the reins of the the busy work, so to speak.
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.920
There's a lot of property managers looking across different PMSs.
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:38.079
Boom is a really interesting one that a lot are keeping tabs on because fundamentally to their their PMS, they're building AI directly into it to solve those issues.
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.319
Um so it's definitely one to watch.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:47.519
I think there's a lot of talk about AI uh in general across every industry, especially never more so in our industry.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.960
I think we have to remind ourselves as an industry at our core, we're a hospitality business.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:18.160
And we really need to focus on empowering our people to be at the forefront of delivering that guest experience and and look at software about unburdening our teams and staff from the parts of the job that you know can be automated or don't necessarily lend to a human doing it because where we're greatest and where block our team, there we're a wonderful community of people.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:25.359
We we do our best work when we speak to our clients directly and and solve those issues and get on the phone and and that sort of thing.
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:31.920
So I think AI will play a huge part, but we need to balance it with you know people at the heart of that process.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:42.480
I think also what we've seen at Block as well, and what many others have seen is the whole where can you unburden parts of the role with software.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:49.759
So if you look at the guest communications and guests that we talked about, guest um expectations um already in this conversation, right?
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:59.599
Where, you know, if I'm arriving late at night, eight o'clock check in, I've got an important business meeting in the morning, you know, I want to know where the laundry room is or maybe where the iron is on on site.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:11.279
And you can do a lot of legwork without involving people, you know, through proper software by having really good guidebooks, um, information as accessible chatbots that can solve those little issues.
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:12.720
We've seen that ourselves.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:19.920
You know, we've we've implemented some really incredible um softwares to improve the guest experience over the last uh eight months here at Block.
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:25.839
And the very dynamic of what our guest communications team spend their time on has fundamentally changed.
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:32.480
You know, where previously they were doing those like responses to little things, and you know, this is how you operate the microwave and that sort of thing.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:38.480
It now becomes about where can our people spend time to um enrich the guest experience.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:50.640
Because I think what many of us forget in our world is that you know, the guest that stays in a building in, say, Sheffield, you know, they don't know they don't necessarily know what Sheffield is about, what to see in Sheffield.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:56.160
And I think there's a huge opportunity for software and people to deliver a better experience for guests.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:08.160
And you know, we go as far as to sort of recommend the the local restaurants and our favorite coffee shop in the area and really try and get that guest to experience and come away from that stay with an experience that they can take home.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.640
Oh, I had this fantastic coffee in this shop.
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:14.799
You know, you've got to go there next time you're in Sheffield or Hoventry or or so on and so forth.
00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:23.839
Yeah, I think there's there's a huge amount of work, a huge amount of opportunity still within AI and software as we as we progress.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:28.799
But it sounds like the core of hospitality will will uh will stay the same.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:29.680
Definitely.
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:38.480
Um you also write the short letter, a newsletter that looks at what's happening across the UK and Ireland um for the uh STR industry.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:40.960
Um why did you decide to create this?
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.640
Well, as I've said a few times, I'm I'm a data guy, I'm a process guy.
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:49.680
I I love to dive into things to understand what we can learn, what insights we can share.
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.839
I'm constantly doing this with with our team, and you know, they're always getting messages to me.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.000
I've I've seen this, like what do you think to that?
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:57.519
And what can we learn from this?
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:14.720
And I think one of the reasons uh that excited me about starting block as a whole was uh uh was the need, specifically within PBC and Builds Rent to continue to educate around the use case of short-term rentals in in the industry, in within their business model.
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.960
Um, everyone I speak to, I have the pleasure of speaking to clients every week.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.880
And everyone seems to come at those calls from different angles.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:28.799
Some have never heard of short-term rentals, some have had a really bad experience, and some you know are ambivalent to it.
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.279
Um and some have obviously installed value in it as well.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:25:01.839
So I saw the short letter as an opportunity for us to provide a means of education and insight into block as we build and try and build a little bit more in the open and share some of the learnings and best practices that we're seeing in, you know, simple things like you know, educating um our target clientele on you know key metrics that to us, you know, as anonymous, RevPAR is something that we're all aware of and familiar with, but necessarily in in the context of PBSN and built to rent, that isn't as directly obvious and the importance of chasing RevPAR.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:15.519
Um I thought it was an interesting vehicle to sort of put ourselves out there a little bit more and share what we're working on and you know, as best as we can educate on the wonders of short-term rentals, um, specifically within those use cases.
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:20.079
Are there any trends that you've uh uh picked up on recently?
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:51.359
I think from us it will be no news for any of us in the short-term rental world, but you know, the the booking, the booking lead times are drastically starting to shorten, um, which you know we're seeing, but it also creates a lot of opportunities for our clients, specifically in the PBSA world, where oftentimes, you know, in the spring they're looking at what we can do over the summer, they're realizing their group booking volumes aren't going to necessarily hit the mark in terms of occupancy.
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:57.680
Um, so you know, the trends of shortening booking times, uh, booking lead times, you know, actually in that case can work.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:09.759
We can take a building live within 13 days, we can get people in beds very quickly, and we're not sort of looking at, you know, we need to be live as soon as possible to make sure the building runs correctly.
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:17.039
Um, but this is one of those things where we're always trying to look at the data to see what lessons can be learned and shared specific to our audience.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:25.920
Another fantastic one is uh September is is it specifically in PBSA world, you know, that's the the intake for the new student year.
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:37.359
When operators look at the summer period, they're saying, well, actually, um, August is when we want block out of the building, we need to turn the building around for students, and absolutely we're going to work with them on that.
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:50.000
But this sort of looking at the data and sharing this insights, we've been able to sort of start educating our clients, saying, like, well, actually, September is a fantastic window for you to maintain a small handful of units still live within the building.
00:26:50.160 --> 00:27:00.079
Because if you still have occupancy gaps leading into semester one, you can offer those sort of students that are arriving early, looking for accommodation, a nice place to stay.
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:13.359
And what we've been very successful at doing is actually passing student guests on to our operational partners saying, hey, like this the student has tried the building, they've really enjoyed their stay, they want to renew long term, you know, over to you and go sign them.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:21.440
So there's absolutely benefit in um sharing the data within this this this whole kind of uh vehicle of the short letter and for everyone's benefit.
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:22.000
Yeah.
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:33.200
Is there anything in the data that suggests that the UK and Ireland is some in in some cases maybe diverging from global markets or is are things moving in tandem?
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.960
I I would always look at the UK and Irish markets as two very separate things, first and foremost.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:48.240
I think um I'd also then go a step further and saying if we look at PBSA and built rent within those markets, they're also at very different stages.
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:55.200
You know, the UK is a lot more uh ahead of the times with PBSA that that sort of asset class is very mature.
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:57.839
Um, built rent is very quickly on the heels of that.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:05.599
Across Europe, there is definitely divergence, those markets are still catching up, but there's still a huge um interest in those asset classes.
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:17.440
And that's what's exciting for as a block as we look at you know our continued expansion and kind of taking the lessons we've learned from the UK and Ireland and applying to other parts of Europe and eventually the world as well.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:24.240
And when you look ahead a bit, how do you think these assets owners will use short uh stays differently than today?
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:32.160
I think today we are very much seen as an add-on business, a uh worst case scenario, a plan B business.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.440
Uh, and that's totally fine.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.559
We've never not been, we've never not acknowledged that.
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:42.720
Um, you know, we always say congratulations to our clients when they say we need to take, you know, two floors back from a building.
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:44.559
And they're like, why are you saying congratulations?
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.440
We're saying, well, you've successfully you know filled the building with your primary revenue source, right?
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.319
So today we're seen as a bit of an add-on.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:29:02.319
You know, we're seeing buildings come to market and realize they're not going to get that initial mobilization windful of tenants that they expected.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.720
And we're then suddenly brought in as an emergency sort of backup procedure.
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:15.759
Where I hope the market will be in five, five years' time, and we're already starting to see this, is businesses looking at short-term rentals as as a as another arrow in their quiver.
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:26.160
You know, this is something that we can use when we're mobilizing a building for the first time, when we're releasing four to five hundred units to the market, it's we're not going to fill all of those rooms, those apartments straight away.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:35.759
Let's use short-term rentals to supply people to the building, potential renters to that building, but also provide revenue to and cash flow to that building.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:49.440
You know, when you have this injection of cash flow, um, you then have more money to reinvest in marketing or to supporting the team on site to ensuring they've got the budget to do their wonderful community events that make those communities so powerful.
00:29:49.680 --> 00:30:14.720
Um, so I think my hope for the next five years is that short-term rentals, through our education and kind of wider spread of it, that we become a bigger part of their fundamental business model in terms of taking a new business uh building to market, but as well as looking at how throughout the course of the building's lifecycle, seasonality, we talked about the sort of summer gap in students, sort of towards the end of that building's life cycle when it needs to be refurbished.
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:17.359
Like, what can we do with short-term rentals to fill those gaps?
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.680
So very much my hope that we become more integrated for sure.
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:29.359
So, given that trend or sort of that direction of travel, um, if you were to start block again today, what would you do differently?
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:34.720
It would absolutely to be realized to realize the sort of value of face-to-face interactions earlier.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:44.400
I think we I think the whole world has come off of COVID, which was six years ago now, where we're all it's okay to work online and do meetings like this.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:55.920
And it's very easy to forget just how impactful, you know, going around and meeting people face to face and shaking a coffee, not always with an agenda as well, just being like, hey, I'm really interested in meeting you and learning about your building.
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:08.240
And we've seen it time and time again where I've got in a car and just gone and seen people, existing clients that we work with, but also people that are curious about what we do or maybe have never heard about us at all before.
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:12.400
But they're like, yeah, it sounds like an interesting thing to look at.
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:16.799
So, you know, that's definitely something I would have loved to have realized a bit faster.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.839
Um, it's definitely helped with our sales cycles to do that.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.960
I think also just like putting the entrepreneur hat back on.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:30.559
Like we, I was at conferences last year where there was multiple people talking about burnout, and thankfully I've not, you know, experienced that yet.
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:35.599
But it's it's a very testing thing, entrepreneurialism.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:47.599
You know, when you're when you're an absolute workaholic, you know, it's so important to factor in downtime and because you need that resilience day in and day out to really just be able to show up, not just for yourself, but show up for your team and show off your clients.
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:56.160
And you know, I think the tendency with any new business is just to absolutely, you know, work and work and work as hard as you can, um, but to what detriment?
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:02.720
Um, so that's definitely something I would have uh loved to maybe been a bit more cognizant of in my first 12 months.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:16.240
Um but I think also just to sort of finish that one off as well, there is definitely the realization that things are always gonna take longer than you expect to close, especially in VillTrent and uh PBSA.
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.599
The deal cycles that we deal with are phenomenally long.
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.119
Um, and you know, it's never done until it's done.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:24.960
Um you just gotta have that patience.
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:29.359
Um, so definitely something I would have loved to have learned in the or been aware of in the first 12 months.
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:34.559
That's some uh good advice to our uh budding entrepreneurs in the uh in the audience.
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:35.920
Final question.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:39.920
Everyone in short term has a story where things didn't go quite to plan.
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:45.759
Like, what's your like most unexpected uh challenge that that uh uh you've come across?
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:47.359
Oh, good great question.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.880
I think thinking back to last year, we um we were expanding into Ireland for the first time.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:58.960
And as I said, like we were used to much longer sales cycles, you know, six to twelve months as a minimum.
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:08.559
And um, we got a phone call um on I think it was Thursday from from the client saying, I've got gaps in my buildings, I just need a revenue source in our building.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.319
Short-term rentals looks fantastic.
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.960
You seem to fit all the criteria.
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.519
Can you come and meet with us and and do it?
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.200
So, you know, we spent I spent you know Thursday, Friday doing proposals.
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:21.039
We were on the phone Saturday, Sunday.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:24.640
I was on a plane on Monday morning to go meet with the client.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:30.640
Uh, we had a contract in hand, I think it was Tuesday, and then we had staff on site, you know, later that week.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:35.279
So for us, it was about you know turning, turning you know, everything around so quickly.
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:40.079
And we were we were caught off guard because you know our onboarding teams were elsewhere doing other things.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:48.559
So suddenly we found ourselves roping in, you know, Tiana and I fiancés and partners to come in and solve some of these some of these needs of getting this site live.
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:53.039
And it was it was great to sort of be in that buzz again of just like getting something live.
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:55.119
But it was definitely a crazy couple of weeks for us.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.480
But the site was live.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:02.319
I think we had our first guest about 15, 20 days after the signing of the contract.
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:06.799
Um, because we had to render like we had to furnish the building and get it live and and set it right.
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.840
So it was a it was a it was a crazy couple of weeks to put it that way.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:11.039
Incredible.
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:17.760
I mean, uh there is uh there is an extended team that every entrepreneur relies on, and that is the family and the family of friends.
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:18.800
That's uh just the truth.
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:20.159
It's been so great to have you, Tom.
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:21.920
Thank you so much for uh for joining.
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:23.199
Thank you so much for having me.
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.079
It's been a pleasure.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:26.159
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00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:31.760
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