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through the first night of your marriage.
Speaker 2 00:03
Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3 00:04
I do not want to remember the day that I first got married, because from that moment it's when I realized that I had made a mistake.
Speaker 4 00:14
kind as a.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 00:18
I'm speaking to a child bride.
Speaker 5 00:21
my mom got you I'm planning a new nadida
Speaker 3 00:25
Now, with this man, we were only meeting outside our homes. But now, when I had married him in the life that his house, it was a reality that at night we slept on the mat with no blankets.
That's when now the reality hit that this would be my living situation from now onwards.
Speaker 5 00:46
I need lima can as
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 00:49
Coming to you from all over Sub-Saharan Africa, I am Masuchaba Masamola Wamdaka. Let's talk human rights.
Speaker 6 01:01
Thanks for watching!
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 01:13
For the past 14 years, I have spent my best years working in African development.
I've spoken to people fighting for democracy and human rights, ranging across civic engagement, young women and girls empowerment, democracy and governance, as well as human rights.
I've reported on human trafficking in Kenya and South Africa.
You've spoken about the gaps in the South African case.
I can completely identify with you, Masechaba.
I've witnessed the horror of female genital mutilation and cutting in Tanzania.
Are the young girls and women comfortable and safe speaking directly to these issues?
Speaker 5 01:51
Young girls and women are now capable and able to speak about the FGM in front of the community, in front of the clan leaders, in front of the children, in front of everywhere.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 02:05
and I've reported from Liberia, still reeling from a bloody civil war that ended just over 20 years ago, and is now trying to do things right. Why is transitional justice important in the context of Liberia's history?
Speaker 7 02:19
Transitional justice is a new frontier of human rights that is preoccupied with dealing with the past, how society coming out of conflict, a period of violence to address that conflict as a precondition to move forward.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 02:33
On this podcast journey, I tell stories that hurt me.
Every story I research and share deeply impacts me.
Nothing can quite prepare your emotions for an investigation that uncovers unthinkable crimes against children.
I'm a mother of two young girls myself, and this is one of the hardest topics I have ever had to handle.
That's why I had to go to Malawi.
I was on a mission to uncover the truths and the sore realities that allow Malawian girls to be sold to men old enough to be their grandfathers.
In Malawi, I will follow the trail of two young girls.
Both are child brides, but their fates will turn out very differently.
Speaker 8 03:27
Welcome to Government International Court in the long-related settlement, and the time is quite a long one.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 03:33
And so, on a Sunday morning, on a summer's day, I go to Malawi, a country that calls itself the warm heart of Africa.
Speaker 4 03:42
The spectacular sunrise over Lake Malawi, the smiling faces at every corner and unforgettable safaris are just some of the things that make Malawi the warm heart of Africa.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 03:57
This is Malawi Tourism.
Speaker 4 03:59
and say takulandilani welcome back
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 04:06
I arrive in the long way with a happy heart.
So much has changed here.
The airport is much nicer, there's a tall building or two, and several of the roads are tired now.
But some of the most important things have not changed at all.
The landscape is still breathtakingly beautiful, the people are still gracious and kind, and girls as young as ten still marry men who could be six times older than them, or seven or eight times.
Speaker 3 04:41
Child marriage has been a generational crisis for us.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 04:45
This is Tamanda Mango, a program manager at the Girls' Empowerment Network, GNET. She's also my guide and interpreter.
Speaker 3 04:53
In Malawi, where nearly 4 in 10 girls are still married before the age of 18. That's limiting education, that's exposing girls to GBB and perpetrating their circles of poverty.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 05:05
The actual statistics are far worse than that. Here is Gladys and Tender, a newspaper journalist from Malawi.
Speaker 2 05:12
Between 42 to 47 percent of children are married off before 18 years. That needs to change. We need to work together so that we change those statistics.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 05:21
real statistics are even worse.
42 to 47 percent.
That's within shouting distance of half of all Malawian girls being stripped of their childhoods, of their right to an education, the right to dignity and self-determination, the right to safety from gender-based violence and the right to follow her dream.
Here I am now on a rural outskirts of Lilongwe in a village called Kalumba.
As we drive on the bumpy dirt road I start thinking and wondering about my first encounter with the child bride.
The car stops at a small compound of six or so huts.
There are children playing and clean laundry hanging in the hot sun and some persistently noisy chickens.
I am here to meet Natasha.
Speaker 3 06:22
My name is Nagasya Shimodu, and I'm 20 years old. I'm a girl who got married at 17 years old, and I have one child.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 06:30
Where did it all begin for you?
Speaker 3 06:32
After I started my administration, we were convinced as girls and we went somewhere and the others spoke to us that right now you're no longer girls, you are actually young women. So upon thinking that maybe I'm young women, I thought that maybe I can do anything else that any other other can do, as well as having my own family.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 06:55
In Natasha's mind, if she got married, she could take away her family's financial burden. She could make them comfortable and happy.
Speaker 5 07:04
Coma sugina
Speaker 3 07:05
I actually grew up with a single mother and lazing the fall of us, it wasn't easy for her. And upon seeing how my mom was struggling and how we're living day to day life, I thought that maybe after getting married I would have to live a better life and as well as be able to support my mother lazing the other kids.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 07:25
What really happened, Natasha?
Speaker 3 07:28
So by that time, because of the living situations at home, I had found a boyfriend that maybe he could be able to support some of the needs that I had. So upon explaining to this man that this was the situation at home, we're not living well, my mother is struggling to take care of the followers.
The man said, you can come, let's get married, we stay at my father's house, I'll be able to support you, I'll be able to feed you, I'll be able to take care of your family as well. But that wasn't really the situation. When I went there, I found that there were other seven kids, and with me making it eight, and with the parents making it ten, and the living situation were even weiser than my own mom's house.
Speaker 5 08:14
They know that's what nobody hates
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 08:17
It tears me apart to listen and recall Natasha's childlike reasoning. She thinks she's the cause of her family's misery.
She thinks she's the way that her loved ones can escape poverty. It's not very good reasoning, which is one of the reasons children shouldn't get married.
Speaker 3 08:38
The man I married was 25, and he was working at a company that was just introduced in my community. So my thought was actually that because he gets his salary, maybe the same money, I'll be able to share my mother, as well as my siblings, and they will get to live a better life than the one we were living in at home.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 09:01
But things don't work out like that.
Speaker 3 09:04
The situation wasn't really how I thought it would be, because now this man was getting $15,000 to quadrant. He was taking $10,000 to quadrant, giving it to the parents, because we are living in the parents' house for us to be fed and be taken care of.
And he was actually giving me $2,000 to quadrant, which even if I give it to my mother, it wasn't really making any contribution, because it was really my will that maybe if I get married only, I would be able to support my mother, I would be able to support my siblings. So I was giving them $12,000 to quadrant, which really meant nothing to them.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 09:40
Natasha was sold for 12,000 Malawi and Quacha. This is the equivalent of seven US dollars. Let's just take a moment to digest that price tag. Seven US dollars.
What do you miss about your childhood years?
Speaker 3 10:04
So what I miss most from my childhood experience is me going to school because I had dreams and I actually had hopes. I actually wanted to be a niece, but then because of what had happened, I gave up my dreams to be a niece simply because I wanted to be able to help my mother.
But that's not how it went. My life actually is not as hopeful as anybody's life can be, because right now we no longer live inside the parents' house. Now we live on our own, but in the same compound, and I have to look for food, I have to make sure that my baby gets dressed, I have to make sure that my baby is fed, and my husband is no longer working with the company. So he actually does peace works to any living and not him alone. I myself also sometimes does work for people to fish water, to farm in their gardens, just to make sure that we find food and money to feed the baby, to feed ourselves. I don't think there is hope anymore that my life would change at home.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 11:12
How can we bring back the hope to this young life and remind her that her dreams are still valid? She matters.
I am on a mission to better understand how young girls like Natasha can get the information and support they need to free them from the hopelessness they've been brought into. Malawi has for many years been a highly A-dependent country.
Speaker 9 11:39
In a poor country like Malawi, U.S. family planning funding is the major defense against this horror. President Trump wanted to cut that assistance globally to zero.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 11:50
This is CNN reporting from Malawi in 2017.
Speaker 9 11:54
So many more women in Malawi could live through hell. David McKenzie, CNN, Blantyre, Malawi.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 12:08
In a population of just over 21 million people, with the median age being 18 years, this is a country of young people. Child marriage is a widespread problem in Malawi, and a serious violation of girls' human rights. It denies their right to healthcare, to education, to live in security, and to choose when and whom they marry.
Back in Johannesburg, I have a conversation with Oludayo Fagbemi. He was at the Institute for Human Rights Development in Africa, the institution that brought charges against the Malawian government back in 2014.
Speaker 10 12:57
The constitution of Malawi had a provision that a child was somebody below the age of 16 years, which is against the provision of the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, which expressly provides that a child is someone below the age of 18 years. Because of this provision in the Malawi constitution, that allowed for child marriages in Malawi.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 13:19
But now, says Oludayo, Malawi had a problem. Fifteen years before this, in 1999, Malawi was a signatory to the African Charter on the rights and welfare of the child.
Speaker 10 13:32
Because Malawi ratified the Charter, it had a duty to bring its laws in line with the Charter. Article 1 of the Charter provides that states should take legislative measures to implement the Charter.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 13:45
Together with the Malawi and NGO called the Eye of the Child, the Institute for Human Rights Development in Africa filed a case with the African Commission on the Rights and Welfare of the Child back in 2014. This would put Malawi in the international spotlight.
Speaker 10 14:03
And so, the Republic of Malawi, knowing that the hearing of the committee would have resulted in an adverse finding, reached out to IHRDA and requested to reach an amicable settlement. I think the main push behind the Malawian government wanting to settle was knowing that this was a slam-down case and this is something they should have done earlier and not wanting to be embarrassed by an adverse finding.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 14:36
So with the Malawiian government being forthcoming and cooperative and being accountable I suppose in this case was as you rightfully say it was a slam-dung case there was no other way of going around it.
Speaker 10 14:48
I should say that Malawi was also a state party to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, but this did not have a similar provision on the age of the child, fixing it specifically at 18.
And so after this contact, we realized at ITRDA that something needs to be done to compel Malawi, if I should use that loosely, to amend their constitution.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 15:24
But that's as far as the law goes. That does not mean the law is being upheld.
In the villages surrounding Lilongwe and Blantyre, traditional child marriage can still reach girls as young as 10. And so, in a homestead, about half an hour outside of Lilongwe, I go to meet another child bride. After meeting Natasha, I was expecting a tragic figure. Entering Doreen's homestead, I am met by the scent of fresh tobacco leaves, wet mud and lush green trees. Doreen stands smiling waiting to greet us.
Speaker 5 16:09
Hello, my name is Doleen Kabla.
Speaker 3 16:11
Hello, my name is Dolin Kabua. I'm 17 years old and I'm a survivor of child marriage.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 16:16
As we settle down and get to know each other, I know exactly how to break the ice. Can you tell me what is your fondest memory from your childhood?
Speaker 3 16:26
My childhood was really going well, but it all got messed up as I was growing up becoming an adolescent. With all the confusion we girls go through, so my life got off track during that time when I was starting to become an adolescent girl.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 16:43
How did we make the leap from childhood straight into marriage? How old were you when you were given away?
Speaker 3 16:51
I basically grew up with my grandmother. My parents got separated where I was young. After that, I was sent to come and live with my grandmother. So I've never lived with my actual parents.
Tell me a little bit more about your grandmother. My grandmother also lost her partner a long time ago. So we basically just grew up with a grandmother only. And as a single pilot, she had to make sure that she had to do anything else to make sure that we find food such as farming and also other extra work.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 17:23
What happens next is something that Doreen could never have anticipated, especially not from the person she loved most.
Speaker 3 17:32
When I come out of age after puberty, my grandmother thought it was that maybe if I'm to be married off.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 17:40
married off, she means sold to an adult man for a handful of kocha.
Speaker 3 17:46
If I'm to be married off, maybe my husband could be able to be here supporting my family as well as maybe the disposabilities on her will be not too much. I had other siblings that she was also taking care of.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 18:01
I asked Doreen to tell me more about her grandmother's betrayal.
Speaker 3 18:05
This was the only planet that I had known all my life. Our relationship didn't really get well. It got sour because I was very sad. It actually took me a long time to forgive what had happened to me.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 18:16
I think Doreen is a far more forgiving person than I am. Can she take us back to the day that she was given away in marriage?
Speaker 3 18:24
The man was actually older than my age, and I was a child. So upon looking at the man himself, I wasn't really impressed.
It wasn't as if I was living like a wife and a husband. It was actually like a father and a daughter. It got to a point that the man was physically abusing me, which really made my experience to be getting wasted. I thought about the people back from home. What actually could they think of me that they had to send me in this condition?
Speaker 8 18:52
because
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 18:53
What were her daily tasks? What was a day in the life from the moment she woke up to the time she went to bed?
Speaker 3 18:59
In the morning, maybe fetching water for people to find food and in the afternoon going to people's farms to find money, to find relish, to buy food. I would even actually spare some time to go ask for food from home to home.
I was even responsible to make budgets for the home, to decide what are we going to eat and then go and look for the food, as well as going to an extent of doing other domestic work just to make sure that I have food and providing for the family. Because if I'm not cooking, if I'm not providing, he would beat me up again to say, what are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be providing for this house?
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 19:37
strikingly, like Natesha, she talks not just about the horror of being married to a man so much older, she talks about something else that's been taken from her.
Speaker 3 19:49
I had dreams. I actually wanted to finish school and be a professional woman in the future, but then after being sent to marriage, I felt that my dreams were shattered.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 20:06
But there is hope. In 2017, Malawi amends its constitution and passes the Children's Act, explicitly banning all marriages before the age of 18. Here's journalist Lattice again.
Speaker 2 20:21
The Children's Act is a big milestone for Malawi, if you look at the rate of child marriages.
So it's really a good development for the children of Malawi because it gives them the protection that they need from these pedophiles, if you let me use that word.
Yeah, so it's really a big milestone because the children then are able to continue with their education and then become what they want to be and pursue their dreams.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 20:44
But, Gladys says, underlying issues remain.
Speaker 2 20:48
What I see as underlying consent and as far as the act is consent is its implementation. Please do elaborate for us. The implementation, it's kind of falling short. It's not meeting the standards that would help us to see the desired outcomes and the desired results.
It's not being fully implemented so that the problem is fully addressed. We still see those marriages that are there in the villages. You see children that were supposed to be in school but being married off. Married off even by their very guardians or their own parents. They protect us, you see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that should really concern us. Having the act itself is a good thing but if it's not implemented, we are not able to see the fruits and the benefits of that act.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 21:29
Gladys goes on to share what she has found to be the primary causes supporting this traditional practice.
Speaker 2 21:34
The other driving factor is poverty. The poverty that is there in the villages, their parents would be like, if my child is better off in the field, helping me get maize, sell it and sustain this family, why should I let that child go to school when they are energetic enough to help me around in their homes?
They serve a purpose. Yeah, they are saving the purpose.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 21:56
I asked Amanda, my guide and interpreter, if she agrees with Gladys, in a word, here.
Speaker 3 22:03
The issue of poverty is eroding with the issue of Kasha and because of poverty, the parents believe that soon after puberty, you're supposed to get married for their responsibilities to be lesser. There are still some deep-looted casual practices in this community and those are practices that parents are still practicing.
Soon after puberty, soon after you start menstruating, they say, believe to them that you're supposed to be getting married. So girls are being married off to leach a man and also girls themselves, they're opting to get married to leach a man to make sure that they're learning away from the problems that they're facing from their homes.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 22:39
Tamanda, I would like you to speak to me about the pace of implementation on the National Strategy 2018 to 2022. We know that the Ministry of Gender, Children, Disability and Social Welfare launched this campaign in order to end child marriages.
I would like to know specifically how these interventions, especially with economic opportunities, as well as looking at child protection services and victim support groups, have really been fast-tracked in terms of making sure that it curbs the increase of these incidents.
Speaker 3 23:19
The pace of implementation of Malawi national strategies to ensure marriage, I would say that has been commendable. The country has made some social progress through maybe legal frames, yet there is still challenges.
The effectiveness of this role heavily depends on enforcement as well as community buy-in and sustained awareness. The government in terms of implementing due to lack of enough finances to support such program hasn't really been good. So for them to enforce and to implement more awareness complaints that will make the information to accelerate to the communities, it becomes a challenge.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 23:59
This is where the money matters. The United Nations Population Fund Program, the UNFPA in Malawi, has done some instrumental work in the country working on the issue of child brides and young women empowerment.
I caught up with Mama Beatrice Kumwenda. She is the UNFPA Malawi's gender program specialist. She tells me about their mentorship program.
Speaker 11 24:25
are dealing with developing the agency of the adolescent girl to know her rights, to have information so that she can make informed decision, in totality to know the value that she's waiting for, to have the skills for negotiation for self-esteem, coupled with empowerment, the empowerment of the mind, empowerment in terms of them looking at education as a value to them and in some areas where empowerment
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 24:55
She says it's a battle for hearts and minds.
Speaker 11 24:58
To get married is an achievement in the community but we are saying no you are even much more with a value than just going into marriages. You have to go into marriage when you are prepared when you know what to do and that can only be done if you are educated, if you are
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 25:14
ballot. The funding for their programs is the intersection between donor interventions and how the government of Malawi has taken ownership.
Mama Beatrice, I'd like you to just touch on the community-centred approach that UNFPA takes in terms of you've done so much work and there's a lot of inputs that have been done by yourselves as well as other donors on board. But what then is driving the community-based change?
Speaker 11 25:41
to the point is the community structure and the head of that community teaches. Now within the community you find that their structures, the surface metaship should be, we deal the structures that are already in the communities.
No new structures, most of the time committees from this year project can do another structure for that project, but for us our approach is that all the structures that are already there are the worlds that will do at and parcel of the project. That brings ownership.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 26:14
The United Nations is joined by the Girls Empowerment Network, which means Tamanda, my guide and interpreter. Besides the community dialogues which are being held, are you getting any buy-in and support from traditional leadership?
Speaker 3 26:28
Yes, yes, we have seen chiefs themselves taking up the leadership laws to make sure that the programs are sustainable in their community. We have seen chiefs introducing bylaws in their community, especially to do with the child marriages, to make sure that there isn't like any parent or any community or any chiefs that are below the traditional authorities that are still maybe accepting child marriages in their communities.
The bylaws, they imply even to everyone who has taken part in any other child marriage ceremony. Be it a pastor, be it a community member or a family member, there are also other chiefs that have even gone to an extent of forming chief councils. We have seen chief councils coming together to discuss issues of child marriage, to discuss issues of GBV. I would say that the chiefs themselves and also the traditional authority at large are also putting so much effort, complementing the government efforts.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 27:18
It was thanks to these efforts that Doreen finally caught a break. It's early morning and she's made up her mind. Can she tell us about the support that she got from her community?
Speaker 3 27:39
In this community, there is a mentorship program that is being implemented. She was living in the same community as I was. She actually got interested to know why was I married off at an age. So it was actually from her who went to the police, to the Child Protection Week, as well as to the male champions who had come to understand what was my situation, especially to Lynn.
Was it my will for me to get married? Oh, it was because of the parents. So upon learning that it was the parents, they reported the case to the community victim support unit as well as the police to take me. And also just to make sure that the family where I was married off had Lynn, that that was a crime that they have committed to take me as a wife, especially the husband. So I was withdrawn from the child marriage for the support of these different people within my community. And upon returning back, upon looking at the same situation that other girls were facing within my community, I had also shared with them that it is actually wrong for us to be married off below the age of 18, because in this community, it's actually a norm that after puberty, you're supposed to get married, especially when school fees is not there, when you're no longer going to school.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 28:51
This is why positive legal frameworks to protect human rights are so crucial in safeguarding people, even the most vulnerable, who need them.
Speaker 3 29:01
the most protection if only they can have something to do with their life if only they can have maybe a source of income I believe that most of the girls would voluntarily withdraw from child marriage when we are being married or parents they get to say they use it in jail or to say marriage is perseverance that way alone sticks into your head and when you go you do not want to retain because your parents had already told you that marriage is perseverance after puberty most of us are get to be told that now you are grown up that way alone if only maybe it can be interpreted to girls in a different manner they would know what growing up literally means other than how we are taught and how we use that way to make maybe unwise decisions
Speaker 4 29:48
Thank you.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 29:54
Hello, Tamanda, how are you? I'm good, and you? I'm good, thank you.
How are things there in Lilongwa? I'm doing alright. Tamanda, I wanted us to touch base regarding the visit we paid to Natasha. I just wanted, and I was curious, to know where she is now, what is the state of mind, has there been any change?
Speaker 3 30:16
Natasha was linked to one of the safe spaces that we have in her community. These are safe spaces for young mothers and they are under one of the projects that Jeanette is implementing in the community.
Right now she was telling me that she wants to apply for a small role and set her own business.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 30:34
It's such a change from the woman that I met. I'm so happy to hear of this development.
So she's left her marriage? Not really. So has she decided to leave her marriage or did you say she's considering it? She is confident now. I just have to go back to those first few moments of encountering Natasha. Seeing this very reclusive young girl you know with the baby clutching onto her and her really you know speaking about how she lives in isolation most of the time and hearing about the fact that in a space of around two months or so there's so much that's happened. Did the interview or our visit with her trigger any of this? The interview is one.
Speaker 3 31:15
I would say, a turning point for her. Last time we talked about the interview, she was telling me that she never really had time to sit down and maybe think about this question about her. But the question prompted her to reflect on her life, especially the question that I asked about her leaving the marriage room. Why is she still in there?
So she was basically telling me that, I really thought that maybe I'm still here because I wouldn't make it outside. I would also for the sake of maybe my family, as well as my kids. But when I look at it, I would say that there is really nothing that I may be benefiting, which is as good as maybe me leaving or maybe me staying with my mother. So she was kind of reflecting. So I think the interview also gave her her own type of effect on the decisions that she had made, as well as maybe reflect on how she can maneuver in future, as well as maybe possibly the consideration of her leaving. Come from basically the intention.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 32:16
That is phenomenal. Thank you, Tommando. Doreen chats to me about what her future looks like.
Speaker 3 32:24
my dreams are actually to become a change maker or maybe to become a social worker. Upon returning from this marriage, I had gone back to school. Right now, I'm in 4-4. I'm about to write my MACE exams.
And also, I said that from the programs that we do in this community, I had an opportunity to do a tailoring training. During my weekends or my free time, what I do basically is also to teach other girls how to do tailoring so that girls do not only stay idle in this community and be engaged in other activities that can destroy their lives. So I'm basically a mentor to the other girls.
Speaker 8 33:00
This is what it's going to be.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 33:02
Doreen is certainly on her way to recovery and greatness. Tell me about your friends. I want to hear more about your friends.
Speaker 3 33:10
So right now, I made a good decision to have better friends than the ones that I had. Some of my friends actually say the bridges that I had married, despite me sharing with them what I was facing there. So right now, I'm more inspired to make friends with those that are doing well in life. I have some friends that are in universities. Whenever they are back from the holidays, I get to learn what they do actually there, and I'm more inspired.
I want my story to be able to inspire others. Others should be able to see it, despite her passing through all this. Right now, she's a doctor or she's something else.
Speaker 8 33:43
Pazudo.
Speaker 6 33:45
Thanks for watching!
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 33:52
Coming into this episode, I had much trepidation about what I would encounter. Having met and spoken to Natasha and Doreen, I am closer to the lived reality of the experience. What incredible souls they are to have overcome what many still find themselves trapped in. Learning more on how interventions brought forward by extraordinary organizations, such as the Girls' Empowerment Network, the United Nations Population Fund, and the Institute for Human Rights Development in Africa have made a remarkable and impactful change. I am very hopeful.
I have to commend the incredible people who work at the front lines of rescuing, defending freedoms and protecting the rights of young girls in action every day. I also have to applaud how the transformation within communities is gradually making the turn away from this harmful practice. But we can still do more. My right, your right, our right. Humanity is and continues to be for us all. This has been the first episode of season six of Let's Talk Human Rights, the FNF Africa podcast exploring various human rights issues. The Freiterichnamen Foundation Sub-Saharan Africa, FNF, is an independent German organization that is committed to promoting liberal ideals and politics in Africa, such as human rights, the rule of law, democracy, innovation, digitization, and free trade. By conducting campaigns, media events, seminars, workshops, study tours, cultural happenings, and training courses, the foundation promotes human rights, including the freedom of expression, freedom of the press, children's rights, and LGBTQIA plus rights, and engages against violence targeting women and capital punishment. If you are interested in our activities, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and X. Simply search for FNF Africa. The links are in the show notes. This has been another solid gold podcast.
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through the first night of your marriage.
Speaker 2 00:03
Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3 00:04
I do not want to remember the day that I first got married, because from that moment it's when I realized that I had made a mistake.
Speaker 4 00:14
kind as a.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 00:18
I'm speaking to a child bride.
Speaker 5 00:21
my mom got you I'm planning a new nadida
Speaker 3 00:25
Now, with this man, we were only meeting outside our homes. But now, when I had married him in the life that his house, it was a reality that at night we slept on the mat with no blankets.
That's when now the reality hit that this would be my living situation from now onwards.
Speaker 5 00:46
I need lima can as
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 00:49
Coming to you from all over Sub-Saharan Africa, I am Masuchaba Masamola Wamdaka. Let's talk human rights.
Speaker 6 01:01
Thanks for watching!
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 01:13
For the past 14 years, I have spent my best years working in African development.
I've spoken to people fighting for democracy and human rights, ranging across civic engagement, young women and girls empowerment, democracy and governance, as well as human rights.
I've reported on human trafficking in Kenya and South Africa.
You've spoken about the gaps in the South African case.
I can completely identify with you, Masechaba.
I've witnessed the horror of female genital mutilation and cutting in Tanzania.
Are the young girls and women comfortable and safe speaking directly to these issues?
Speaker 5 01:51
Young girls and women are now capable and able to speak about the FGM in front of the community, in front of the clan leaders, in front of the children, in front of everywhere.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 02:05
and I've reported from Liberia, still reeling from a bloody civil war that ended just over 20 years ago, and is now trying to do things right. Why is transitional justice important in the context of Liberia's history?
Speaker 7 02:19
Transitional justice is a new frontier of human rights that is preoccupied with dealing with the past, how society coming out of conflict, a period of violence to address that conflict as a precondition to move forward.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 02:33
On this podcast journey, I tell stories that hurt me.
Every story I research and share deeply impacts me.
Nothing can quite prepare your emotions for an investigation that uncovers unthinkable crimes against children.
I'm a mother of two young girls myself, and this is one of the hardest topics I have ever had to handle.
That's why I had to go to Malawi.
I was on a mission to uncover the truths and the sore realities that allow Malawian girls to be sold to men old enough to be their grandfathers.
In Malawi, I will follow the trail of two young girls.
Both are child brides, but their fates will turn out very differently.
Speaker 8 03:27
Welcome to Government International Court in the long-related settlement, and the time is quite a long one.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 03:33
And so, on a Sunday morning, on a summer's day, I go to Malawi, a country that calls itself the warm heart of Africa.
Speaker 4 03:42
The spectacular sunrise over Lake Malawi, the smiling faces at every corner and unforgettable safaris are just some of the things that make Malawi the warm heart of Africa.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 03:57
This is Malawi Tourism.
Speaker 4 03:59
and say takulandilani welcome back
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 04:06
I arrive in the long way with a happy heart.
So much has changed here.
The airport is much nicer, there's a tall building or two, and several of the roads are tired now.
But some of the most important things have not changed at all.
The landscape is still breathtakingly beautiful, the people are still gracious and kind, and girls as young as ten still marry men who could be six times older than them, or seven or eight times.
Speaker 3 04:41
Child marriage has been a generational crisis for us.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 04:45
This is Tamanda Mango, a program manager at the Girls' Empowerment Network, GNET. She's also my guide and interpreter.
Speaker 3 04:53
In Malawi, where nearly 4 in 10 girls are still married before the age of 18. That's limiting education, that's exposing girls to GBB and perpetrating their circles of poverty.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 05:05
The actual statistics are far worse than that. Here is Gladys and Tender, a newspaper journalist from Malawi.
Speaker 2 05:12
Between 42 to 47 percent of children are married off before 18 years. That needs to change. We need to work together so that we change those statistics.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 05:21
real statistics are even worse.
42 to 47 percent.
That's within shouting distance of half of all Malawian girls being stripped of their childhoods, of their right to an education, the right to dignity and self-determination, the right to safety from gender-based violence and the right to follow her dream.
Here I am now on a rural outskirts of Lilongwe in a village called Kalumba.
As we drive on the bumpy dirt road I start thinking and wondering about my first encounter with the child bride.
The car stops at a small compound of six or so huts.
There are children playing and clean laundry hanging in the hot sun and some persistently noisy chickens.
I am here to meet Natasha.
Speaker 3 06:22
My name is Nagasya Shimodu, and I'm 20 years old. I'm a girl who got married at 17 years old, and I have one child.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 06:30
Where did it all begin for you?
Speaker 3 06:32
After I started my administration, we were convinced as girls and we went somewhere and the others spoke to us that right now you're no longer girls, you are actually young women. So upon thinking that maybe I'm young women, I thought that maybe I can do anything else that any other other can do, as well as having my own family.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 06:55
In Natasha's mind, if she got married, she could take away her family's financial burden. She could make them comfortable and happy.
Speaker 5 07:04
Coma sugina
Speaker 3 07:05
I actually grew up with a single mother and lazing the fall of us, it wasn't easy for her. And upon seeing how my mom was struggling and how we're living day to day life, I thought that maybe after getting married I would have to live a better life and as well as be able to support my mother lazing the other kids.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 07:25
What really happened, Natasha?
Speaker 3 07:28
So by that time, because of the living situations at home, I had found a boyfriend that maybe he could be able to support some of the needs that I had. So upon explaining to this man that this was the situation at home, we're not living well, my mother is struggling to take care of the followers.
The man said, you can come, let's get married, we stay at my father's house, I'll be able to support you, I'll be able to feed you, I'll be able to take care of your family as well. But that wasn't really the situation. When I went there, I found that there were other seven kids, and with me making it eight, and with the parents making it ten, and the living situation were even weiser than my own mom's house.
Speaker 5 08:14
They know that's what nobody hates
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 08:17
It tears me apart to listen and recall Natasha's childlike reasoning. She thinks she's the cause of her family's misery.
She thinks she's the way that her loved ones can escape poverty. It's not very good reasoning, which is one of the reasons children shouldn't get married.
Speaker 3 08:38
The man I married was 25, and he was working at a company that was just introduced in my community. So my thought was actually that because he gets his salary, maybe the same money, I'll be able to share my mother, as well as my siblings, and they will get to live a better life than the one we were living in at home.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 09:01
But things don't work out like that.
Speaker 3 09:04
The situation wasn't really how I thought it would be, because now this man was getting $15,000 to quadrant. He was taking $10,000 to quadrant, giving it to the parents, because we are living in the parents' house for us to be fed and be taken care of.
And he was actually giving me $2,000 to quadrant, which even if I give it to my mother, it wasn't really making any contribution, because it was really my will that maybe if I get married only, I would be able to support my mother, I would be able to support my siblings. So I was giving them $12,000 to quadrant, which really meant nothing to them.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 09:40
Natasha was sold for 12,000 Malawi and Quacha. This is the equivalent of seven US dollars. Let's just take a moment to digest that price tag. Seven US dollars.
What do you miss about your childhood years?
Speaker 3 10:04
So what I miss most from my childhood experience is me going to school because I had dreams and I actually had hopes. I actually wanted to be a niece, but then because of what had happened, I gave up my dreams to be a niece simply because I wanted to be able to help my mother.
But that's not how it went. My life actually is not as hopeful as anybody's life can be, because right now we no longer live inside the parents' house. Now we live on our own, but in the same compound, and I have to look for food, I have to make sure that my baby gets dressed, I have to make sure that my baby is fed, and my husband is no longer working with the company. So he actually does peace works to any living and not him alone. I myself also sometimes does work for people to fish water, to farm in their gardens, just to make sure that we find food and money to feed the baby, to feed ourselves. I don't think there is hope anymore that my life would change at home.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 11:12
How can we bring back the hope to this young life and remind her that her dreams are still valid? She matters.
I am on a mission to better understand how young girls like Natasha can get the information and support they need to free them from the hopelessness they've been brought into. Malawi has for many years been a highly A-dependent country.
Speaker 9 11:39
In a poor country like Malawi, U.S. family planning funding is the major defense against this horror. President Trump wanted to cut that assistance globally to zero.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 11:50
This is CNN reporting from Malawi in 2017.
Speaker 9 11:54
So many more women in Malawi could live through hell. David McKenzie, CNN, Blantyre, Malawi.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 12:08
In a population of just over 21 million people, with the median age being 18 years, this is a country of young people. Child marriage is a widespread problem in Malawi, and a serious violation of girls' human rights. It denies their right to healthcare, to education, to live in security, and to choose when and whom they marry.
Back in Johannesburg, I have a conversation with Oludayo Fagbemi. He was at the Institute for Human Rights Development in Africa, the institution that brought charges against the Malawian government back in 2014.
Speaker 10 12:57
The constitution of Malawi had a provision that a child was somebody below the age of 16 years, which is against the provision of the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, which expressly provides that a child is someone below the age of 18 years. Because of this provision in the Malawi constitution, that allowed for child marriages in Malawi.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 13:19
But now, says Oludayo, Malawi had a problem. Fifteen years before this, in 1999, Malawi was a signatory to the African Charter on the rights and welfare of the child.
Speaker 10 13:32
Because Malawi ratified the Charter, it had a duty to bring its laws in line with the Charter. Article 1 of the Charter provides that states should take legislative measures to implement the Charter.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 13:45
Together with the Malawi and NGO called the Eye of the Child, the Institute for Human Rights Development in Africa filed a case with the African Commission on the Rights and Welfare of the Child back in 2014. This would put Malawi in the international spotlight.
Speaker 10 14:03
And so, the Republic of Malawi, knowing that the hearing of the committee would have resulted in an adverse finding, reached out to IHRDA and requested to reach an amicable settlement. I think the main push behind the Malawian government wanting to settle was knowing that this was a slam-down case and this is something they should have done earlier and not wanting to be embarrassed by an adverse finding.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 14:36
So with the Malawiian government being forthcoming and cooperative and being accountable I suppose in this case was as you rightfully say it was a slam-dung case there was no other way of going around it.
Speaker 10 14:48
I should say that Malawi was also a state party to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, but this did not have a similar provision on the age of the child, fixing it specifically at 18.
And so after this contact, we realized at ITRDA that something needs to be done to compel Malawi, if I should use that loosely, to amend their constitution.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 15:24
But that's as far as the law goes. That does not mean the law is being upheld.
In the villages surrounding Lilongwe and Blantyre, traditional child marriage can still reach girls as young as 10. And so, in a homestead, about half an hour outside of Lilongwe, I go to meet another child bride. After meeting Natasha, I was expecting a tragic figure. Entering Doreen's homestead, I am met by the scent of fresh tobacco leaves, wet mud and lush green trees. Doreen stands smiling waiting to greet us.
Speaker 5 16:09
Hello, my name is Doleen Kabla.
Speaker 3 16:11
Hello, my name is Dolin Kabua. I'm 17 years old and I'm a survivor of child marriage.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 16:16
As we settle down and get to know each other, I know exactly how to break the ice. Can you tell me what is your fondest memory from your childhood?
Speaker 3 16:26
My childhood was really going well, but it all got messed up as I was growing up becoming an adolescent. With all the confusion we girls go through, so my life got off track during that time when I was starting to become an adolescent girl.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 16:43
How did we make the leap from childhood straight into marriage? How old were you when you were given away?
Speaker 3 16:51
I basically grew up with my grandmother. My parents got separated where I was young. After that, I was sent to come and live with my grandmother. So I've never lived with my actual parents.
Tell me a little bit more about your grandmother. My grandmother also lost her partner a long time ago. So we basically just grew up with a grandmother only. And as a single pilot, she had to make sure that she had to do anything else to make sure that we find food such as farming and also other extra work.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 17:23
What happens next is something that Doreen could never have anticipated, especially not from the person she loved most.
Speaker 3 17:32
When I come out of age after puberty, my grandmother thought it was that maybe if I'm to be married off.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 17:40
married off, she means sold to an adult man for a handful of kocha.
Speaker 3 17:46
If I'm to be married off, maybe my husband could be able to be here supporting my family as well as maybe the disposabilities on her will be not too much. I had other siblings that she was also taking care of.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 18:01
I asked Doreen to tell me more about her grandmother's betrayal.
Speaker 3 18:05
This was the only planet that I had known all my life. Our relationship didn't really get well. It got sour because I was very sad. It actually took me a long time to forgive what had happened to me.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 18:16
I think Doreen is a far more forgiving person than I am. Can she take us back to the day that she was given away in marriage?
Speaker 3 18:24
The man was actually older than my age, and I was a child. So upon looking at the man himself, I wasn't really impressed.
It wasn't as if I was living like a wife and a husband. It was actually like a father and a daughter. It got to a point that the man was physically abusing me, which really made my experience to be getting wasted. I thought about the people back from home. What actually could they think of me that they had to send me in this condition?
Speaker 8 18:52
because
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 18:53
What were her daily tasks? What was a day in the life from the moment she woke up to the time she went to bed?
Speaker 3 18:59
In the morning, maybe fetching water for people to find food and in the afternoon going to people's farms to find money, to find relish, to buy food. I would even actually spare some time to go ask for food from home to home.
I was even responsible to make budgets for the home, to decide what are we going to eat and then go and look for the food, as well as going to an extent of doing other domestic work just to make sure that I have food and providing for the family. Because if I'm not cooking, if I'm not providing, he would beat me up again to say, what are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be providing for this house?
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 19:37
strikingly, like Natesha, she talks not just about the horror of being married to a man so much older, she talks about something else that's been taken from her.
Speaker 3 19:49
I had dreams. I actually wanted to finish school and be a professional woman in the future, but then after being sent to marriage, I felt that my dreams were shattered.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 20:06
But there is hope. In 2017, Malawi amends its constitution and passes the Children's Act, explicitly banning all marriages before the age of 18. Here's journalist Lattice again.
Speaker 2 20:21
The Children's Act is a big milestone for Malawi, if you look at the rate of child marriages.
So it's really a good development for the children of Malawi because it gives them the protection that they need from these pedophiles, if you let me use that word.
Yeah, so it's really a big milestone because the children then are able to continue with their education and then become what they want to be and pursue their dreams.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 20:44
But, Gladys says, underlying issues remain.
Speaker 2 20:48
What I see as underlying consent and as far as the act is consent is its implementation. Please do elaborate for us. The implementation, it's kind of falling short. It's not meeting the standards that would help us to see the desired outcomes and the desired results.
It's not being fully implemented so that the problem is fully addressed. We still see those marriages that are there in the villages. You see children that were supposed to be in school but being married off. Married off even by their very guardians or their own parents. They protect us, you see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that should really concern us. Having the act itself is a good thing but if it's not implemented, we are not able to see the fruits and the benefits of that act.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 21:29
Gladys goes on to share what she has found to be the primary causes supporting this traditional practice.
Speaker 2 21:34
The other driving factor is poverty. The poverty that is there in the villages, their parents would be like, if my child is better off in the field, helping me get maize, sell it and sustain this family, why should I let that child go to school when they are energetic enough to help me around in their homes?
They serve a purpose. Yeah, they are saving the purpose.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 21:56
I asked Amanda, my guide and interpreter, if she agrees with Gladys, in a word, here.
Speaker 3 22:03
The issue of poverty is eroding with the issue of Kasha and because of poverty, the parents believe that soon after puberty, you're supposed to get married for their responsibilities to be lesser. There are still some deep-looted casual practices in this community and those are practices that parents are still practicing.
Soon after puberty, soon after you start menstruating, they say, believe to them that you're supposed to be getting married. So girls are being married off to leach a man and also girls themselves, they're opting to get married to leach a man to make sure that they're learning away from the problems that they're facing from their homes.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 22:39
Tamanda, I would like you to speak to me about the pace of implementation on the National Strategy 2018 to 2022. We know that the Ministry of Gender, Children, Disability and Social Welfare launched this campaign in order to end child marriages.
I would like to know specifically how these interventions, especially with economic opportunities, as well as looking at child protection services and victim support groups, have really been fast-tracked in terms of making sure that it curbs the increase of these incidents.
Speaker 3 23:19
The pace of implementation of Malawi national strategies to ensure marriage, I would say that has been commendable. The country has made some social progress through maybe legal frames, yet there is still challenges.
The effectiveness of this role heavily depends on enforcement as well as community buy-in and sustained awareness. The government in terms of implementing due to lack of enough finances to support such program hasn't really been good. So for them to enforce and to implement more awareness complaints that will make the information to accelerate to the communities, it becomes a challenge.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 23:59
This is where the money matters. The United Nations Population Fund Program, the UNFPA in Malawi, has done some instrumental work in the country working on the issue of child brides and young women empowerment.
I caught up with Mama Beatrice Kumwenda. She is the UNFPA Malawi's gender program specialist. She tells me about their mentorship program.
Speaker 11 24:25
are dealing with developing the agency of the adolescent girl to know her rights, to have information so that she can make informed decision, in totality to know the value that she's waiting for, to have the skills for negotiation for self-esteem, coupled with empowerment, the empowerment of the mind, empowerment in terms of them looking at education as a value to them and in some areas where empowerment
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 24:55
She says it's a battle for hearts and minds.
Speaker 11 24:58
To get married is an achievement in the community but we are saying no you are even much more with a value than just going into marriages. You have to go into marriage when you are prepared when you know what to do and that can only be done if you are educated, if you are
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 25:14
ballot. The funding for their programs is the intersection between donor interventions and how the government of Malawi has taken ownership.
Mama Beatrice, I'd like you to just touch on the community-centred approach that UNFPA takes in terms of you've done so much work and there's a lot of inputs that have been done by yourselves as well as other donors on board. But what then is driving the community-based change?
Speaker 11 25:41
to the point is the community structure and the head of that community teaches. Now within the community you find that their structures, the surface metaship should be, we deal the structures that are already in the communities.
No new structures, most of the time committees from this year project can do another structure for that project, but for us our approach is that all the structures that are already there are the worlds that will do at and parcel of the project. That brings ownership.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 26:14
The United Nations is joined by the Girls Empowerment Network, which means Tamanda, my guide and interpreter. Besides the community dialogues which are being held, are you getting any buy-in and support from traditional leadership?
Speaker 3 26:28
Yes, yes, we have seen chiefs themselves taking up the leadership laws to make sure that the programs are sustainable in their community. We have seen chiefs introducing bylaws in their community, especially to do with the child marriages, to make sure that there isn't like any parent or any community or any chiefs that are below the traditional authorities that are still maybe accepting child marriages in their communities.
The bylaws, they imply even to everyone who has taken part in any other child marriage ceremony. Be it a pastor, be it a community member or a family member, there are also other chiefs that have even gone to an extent of forming chief councils. We have seen chief councils coming together to discuss issues of child marriage, to discuss issues of GBV. I would say that the chiefs themselves and also the traditional authority at large are also putting so much effort, complementing the government efforts.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 27:18
It was thanks to these efforts that Doreen finally caught a break. It's early morning and she's made up her mind. Can she tell us about the support that she got from her community?
Speaker 3 27:39
In this community, there is a mentorship program that is being implemented. She was living in the same community as I was. She actually got interested to know why was I married off at an age. So it was actually from her who went to the police, to the Child Protection Week, as well as to the male champions who had come to understand what was my situation, especially to Lynn.
Was it my will for me to get married? Oh, it was because of the parents. So upon learning that it was the parents, they reported the case to the community victim support unit as well as the police to take me. And also just to make sure that the family where I was married off had Lynn, that that was a crime that they have committed to take me as a wife, especially the husband. So I was withdrawn from the child marriage for the support of these different people within my community. And upon returning back, upon looking at the same situation that other girls were facing within my community, I had also shared with them that it is actually wrong for us to be married off below the age of 18, because in this community, it's actually a norm that after puberty, you're supposed to get married, especially when school fees is not there, when you're no longer going to school.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 28:51
This is why positive legal frameworks to protect human rights are so crucial in safeguarding people, even the most vulnerable, who need them.
Speaker 3 29:01
the most protection if only they can have something to do with their life if only they can have maybe a source of income I believe that most of the girls would voluntarily withdraw from child marriage when we are being married or parents they get to say they use it in jail or to say marriage is perseverance that way alone sticks into your head and when you go you do not want to retain because your parents had already told you that marriage is perseverance after puberty most of us are get to be told that now you are grown up that way alone if only maybe it can be interpreted to girls in a different manner they would know what growing up literally means other than how we are taught and how we use that way to make maybe unwise decisions
Speaker 4 29:48
Thank you.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 29:54
Hello, Tamanda, how are you? I'm good, and you? I'm good, thank you.
How are things there in Lilongwa? I'm doing alright. Tamanda, I wanted us to touch base regarding the visit we paid to Natasha. I just wanted, and I was curious, to know where she is now, what is the state of mind, has there been any change?
Speaker 3 30:16
Natasha was linked to one of the safe spaces that we have in her community. These are safe spaces for young mothers and they are under one of the projects that Jeanette is implementing in the community.
Right now she was telling me that she wants to apply for a small role and set her own business.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 30:34
It's such a change from the woman that I met. I'm so happy to hear of this development.
So she's left her marriage? Not really. So has she decided to leave her marriage or did you say she's considering it? She is confident now. I just have to go back to those first few moments of encountering Natasha. Seeing this very reclusive young girl you know with the baby clutching onto her and her really you know speaking about how she lives in isolation most of the time and hearing about the fact that in a space of around two months or so there's so much that's happened. Did the interview or our visit with her trigger any of this? The interview is one.
Speaker 3 31:15
I would say, a turning point for her. Last time we talked about the interview, she was telling me that she never really had time to sit down and maybe think about this question about her. But the question prompted her to reflect on her life, especially the question that I asked about her leaving the marriage room. Why is she still in there?
So she was basically telling me that, I really thought that maybe I'm still here because I wouldn't make it outside. I would also for the sake of maybe my family, as well as my kids. But when I look at it, I would say that there is really nothing that I may be benefiting, which is as good as maybe me leaving or maybe me staying with my mother. So she was kind of reflecting. So I think the interview also gave her her own type of effect on the decisions that she had made, as well as maybe reflect on how she can maneuver in future, as well as maybe possibly the consideration of her leaving. Come from basically the intention.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 32:16
That is phenomenal. Thank you, Tommando. Doreen chats to me about what her future looks like.
Speaker 3 32:24
my dreams are actually to become a change maker or maybe to become a social worker. Upon returning from this marriage, I had gone back to school. Right now, I'm in 4-4. I'm about to write my MACE exams.
And also, I said that from the programs that we do in this community, I had an opportunity to do a tailoring training. During my weekends or my free time, what I do basically is also to teach other girls how to do tailoring so that girls do not only stay idle in this community and be engaged in other activities that can destroy their lives. So I'm basically a mentor to the other girls.
Speaker 8 33:00
This is what it's going to be.
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 33:02
Doreen is certainly on her way to recovery and greatness. Tell me about your friends. I want to hear more about your friends.
Speaker 3 33:10
So right now, I made a good decision to have better friends than the ones that I had. Some of my friends actually say the bridges that I had married, despite me sharing with them what I was facing there. So right now, I'm more inspired to make friends with those that are doing well in life. I have some friends that are in universities. Whenever they are back from the holidays, I get to learn what they do actually there, and I'm more inspired.
I want my story to be able to inspire others. Others should be able to see it, despite her passing through all this. Right now, she's a doctor or she's something else.
Speaker 8 33:43
Pazudo.
Speaker 6 33:45
Thanks for watching!
Masechaba Masemola wa-Mdaka 33:52
Coming into this episode, I had much trepidation about what I would encounter. Having met and spoken to Natasha and Doreen, I am closer to the lived reality of the experience. What incredible souls they are to have overcome what many still find themselves trapped in. Learning more on how interventions brought forward by extraordinary organizations, such as the Girls' Empowerment Network, the United Nations Population Fund, and the Institute for Human Rights Development in Africa have made a remarkable and impactful change. I am very hopeful.
I have to commend the incredible people who work at the front lines of rescuing, defending freedoms and protecting the rights of young girls in action every day. I also have to applaud how the transformation within communities is gradually making the turn away from this harmful practice. But we can still do more. My right, your right, our right. Humanity is and continues to be for us all. This has been the first episode of season six of Let's Talk Human Rights, the FNF Africa podcast exploring various human rights issues. The Freiterichnamen Foundation Sub-Saharan Africa, FNF, is an independent German organization that is committed to promoting liberal ideals and politics in Africa, such as human rights, the rule of law, democracy, innovation, digitization, and free trade. By conducting campaigns, media events, seminars, workshops, study tours, cultural happenings, and training courses, the foundation promotes human rights, including the freedom of expression, freedom of the press, children's rights, and LGBTQIA plus rights, and engages against violence targeting women and capital punishment. If you are interested in our activities, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and X. Simply search for FNF Africa. The links are in the show notes. This has been another solid gold podcast.
