It's All Write to Ghost(write)

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In a world where culture gets lazy and good enough is good enough.
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What does that do to high art?.
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We need those critical voices mm-hmm.
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Who are not afraid to offend.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And who aren't afraid to speak truth to power, and be willing to call things out, where I think a lot of people are a little more.
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Trepidatious now.
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Hi, I'm Ariana McLean.
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I'm Meryl Branch McTiernan.
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You're listening to It's All Right.
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The podcast
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about
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the writing life and those who live it.
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Today we're joined by my friend Jesse Alan, who's an editorial communications and the dreaded word content consultant based in New York.
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He has worked across the publishing and media industries, including a global trade publishing house, A data-driven startup publisher, and on a consulting basis with ghostwriting companies, content marketing companies, and a nonpartisan think tank.
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Hi, Jesse.
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Thanks for being here.
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Hello.
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Hello.
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Thank you both for having me.
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I'm thrilled to be here.
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we wanted to talk about the dreaded word
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Content.
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Content.
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Content.
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What do you think about that?
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So here's the thing I know from listening to your previous episodes, that you both have feelings about content.
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Yes.
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And I they are entirely valid, believe me.
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I'm partially in agreement with you on that.
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I will say I think that in terms of content.
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I think of it in a broad umbrella kind of term where content can be so many different things.
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It can be different types of written content.
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It can be, different types of media content.
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So I think really that the key is to think about the accessibility of it and the way that like different people can view content in ways to make them part of the publishing or media ecosystem.
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Agree with you, Meryl, that writing is an art and art should be the goal ultimately, but I think of art and content as being, to your earlier point, very separate things.
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So when you're working let's say with an artist, a writer, are you then consulting them on how to create content for their platforms?
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I would say really it's less about their platforms, it's more about for individual clients I've worked to get their voice out.
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And, really figure out what they should sound like on the page.
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For example, for the think tank that I've worked for, it's about taking very high level writing from, policy wonks, economic experts, people who are so steeped in this field, but then you're writing for the C-suite.
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So it has to be a very digestible, very, message forward kind of approach.
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And for what I do, it's, in, in that case, I mean that style of content is taking this very kind of high level economic, wonky language and then boiling it down to a point where it's accessible, to like a C-suite person can take that and find a course of action or kind of familiarize themselves with the challenges of that particular landscape.
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So it's about, in that way being a bit of a translator, a bit of a conduit between the economic side and then the sort of action minded okay, what do I do with this info C-Suite side.
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How did the thinkers that have written the initial content or piece, how do they react to your trying to get it?
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I love that question.
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At first, my, my first assignment, I was so nervous, I thought, oh no, I might editing too much.
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Am I editing too little?
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And i, It was actually on a trial basis where, the person I was working with said, okay, for the first one or two of these, we're gonna go through you and I, and then I will transmit things to the, teams, and then they'll give me their feedback.
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We did that about twice, and then I heard back from them.
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We love this feedback.
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It is so actionable.
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It's so clear.
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There's no ego in it.
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And really, I realized like I approached it,'cause I come from a book editing background as well and I approach that work in the same way as I've approached any kind of editorial project, which is you take someone and you realize when they're giving you their book, their report, their content.
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it's a bit of the of a precious baby.
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And you have to respect the messaging of that and to go, okay, I'm not going to rip this thing shreds.
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I'm going to say here are gentle ways of improvement.
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Here are, compliment sandwiches.
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This is working so well, maybe improve this.
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This is such a great way to end it.
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That kind of thing.
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And really, I found out that, and to my surprise, I could work with people where, I'm not an economics expert, but I began to understand where they were coming from and then to treat that with, the levity and respected deserved, while also refining the work to make sure it was clear and not, too wonky.
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Yeah, that's a, I can imagine that's like a very delicate balance.
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It really can be.
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Absolutely.
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and also really needed.
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'Cause right now we're seeing people just flocking to things that sound good, that are untrue.
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We really wanna do on the podcast because you have this multifaceted experience and viewpoint on writing the writing industry and all the sort of tangential industries.
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Can you tell us maybe a brief journey through your trajectory?
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I would say I, my, my first entry was really, it wasn't actually at a publisher.
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I began at a talent agency.
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I moved to New York and I was desperate for, any job.
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I worked at a law firm at the time, so that was a bit of, got my early editorial chops, like reading people's affidavits about why they were coming to this country.
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And I did that for a couple years and then I realized, okay, this is, fine, but not ultimately where my heart and soul is leading me.
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And I met an agent at the time who said, oh, she was working at a large agency and she said, there is an opening here, so if you want to think about this.
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You have some legal background, you have, you're familiar with contracts, that kind of thing.
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Come in and interview for it.
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So I came in and I met the head books lawyer at the agency, and within about half an hour, one of the first questions he said, okay, so you've been, a front of office, you've dealt with clients, you've dealt with attorneys, you've dealt with judges, you've dealt with every under of the sun.
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You can take pressure.
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And I said.
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Yeah.
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I, 24, 20 5-year-old me is going Uhhuh.
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Yeah, sure I can.
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Yeah.
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I got this.
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And he said, good,'cause this, this is a great place, but there are a lot of strong personalities here and you have to be able to stand up for yourself and, we have to get these deals done.
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I said, okay.
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Yeah.
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So I got there and I got the job and it really, it was such an interesting way to come into the industry first, because it's all about kind of sales, but it's about art.
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Where you really you have agents building lists that matter to them.
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They wanna say something to the world, and they want to have the appropriate list to do that.
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The right
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authors, the right mix.
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That is nice to hear that they do actually
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care about art.
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Oh yeah.
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Oh they care, they care about commerce too, but they care about art.
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And I would say particularly, book people are some of my favorite people.
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They're really, literary agents were fantastic.
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They're thoughtful, they're, nuanced.
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They read with care.
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So I did that job for a few years.
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I think I was there for five years actually, and I read for agents on the side, and I realized, oh, like this industry piques me.
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I wanna know more.
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I wanna learn more.
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So I ended up going to a publishing course in Denver for a summer and I took a month off.
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It was a mini sabbatical.
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I said, I'm gonna do this and people said, oh, there's the NYU one.
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I said I want nature.
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Yeah.
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I exactly.
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I like I here all time.
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I want some fresh air, some mountains, some hiking.
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I walked in Denver.
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I was the only person to walk in Denver.
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Everybody drove cars, which I thought was hilarious.
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But I was there for a month and I realized, from doing all that, we did editorial, marketing, publicity, every single piece of it.
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I came back and I gave notice.
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I said
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thanks for the time off.
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Exactly.
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This is lovely.
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I finished out the year and they said, we wish you well.
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This has been a wonderful relationship, but clearly you wanna do other things.
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I said, yeah, I do.
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So within a month I landed at Random House.
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My boss was a publisher of an imprint there, and really I was, you know, the 30,000 foot view of the industry where it was really how do you run an imprint?
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How do you make decisions about covers?
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How do you make acquisitions decisions?
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How do you look at your list and your season spread overall and say, we have a little bit of everything, we're striking all the right notes, we're speaking to current events and what matters in the world, but also what matters in, fiction translation.
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What is popular in Korea that maybe we should consider here?
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It was really kind of a way to get that global view and a fascinating, amazing place to do it too.
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One of my favorite things about that piece of the industry is the acquisition side, where you have to go into a room and you're gonna have to defend what you believe in.
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You're gonna have to say, oh, there's this debut author.
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I love their work.
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Here's why they matter.
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Here's why they matter for our list.
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Here's why they should be here.
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This is the right home for them.
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in that way it really it opened my eyes, I would say to how the sausage is made.
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Yeah, I was wondering about that.
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Since you are a creative writer as well, have you found ever that the market has drifted into your psyche as you're writing?
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Do you ever worry about that?
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I can't say that I do.
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And that, I either I don't know, for better or worse, I would say I'm aware of the market, but I also know that, when I sit down to write something, when I have the blank page staring at me, it has to be its own authentic form.
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It has to be, not necessarily, I know, for example, romantacy is hugely popular now.
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I think if you had a gun to my head, I don't know if I could write romantacy, I would go, do I have to?
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Is that gun loaded?
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Okay.
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I literally had this conversation yesterday on the train with my friend there was like what is it?
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A court of Thorn and rose's poster
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Mm-hmm.
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on the subway.
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Mm-hmm.
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and
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uh.
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And, and she's oh, what's that?
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And I told her and then she's oh, you should write romantacy, then you can make money.
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And I was like, I
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money.
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I, I can't write that.
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That's not what I write.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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And I think there, I think that every writer should be, and this is just, my one person perspective, you should be aware of the marketplace, but you shouldn't let it influence your authentic vision of what you want to do.
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Because I think really, that old adage of kind of, you make what you wanna make and then your people find you, I think is true.
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Where there, I think chasing trends and, we've seen, book tok, TikTok, all this stuff, it's fantastic for visibility.
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It's fantastic for getting the word out about things, but I think taking it too seriously, and again, just in my own opinion, can be damaging to someone's creative output.
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And there's such a lag time between getting an agent and selling a book to the book actually coming out.
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So if you try to chase something, you're gonna
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be,
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you're already behind.
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behind.
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Yeah.
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Jesse and I met through ghost writing.
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So I was ghostwriting for a while.
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That's something I stumbled upon when I was in LA.
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And I worked on quite a few projects.
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I had to stop doing it during grad school because I felt that I really was dedicating that time to work on my own stuff and to have other people's books in my head wasn't helpful for that.
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But during a period I guess it was probably around eight years ago, I went to this one brown paper bag lunch for, one of the ghost writing companies.
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And Jesse and I met, I don't know, did we meet the elevator or something?
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I, probably my way lq.
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I was gonna say l say exactly.
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I, I have a distinctive memory of us sitting around that table, and zeroing in on you and thinking, I wanna know you better.
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Yeah.
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And I think that we just struck up a conversation on the way back down and then, we, I assume at that time we were probably on facebook, right?
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Yeah.
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yeah
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bet we facebook.
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So yeah.
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So then we've just been friends and, we've recommended each other for some projects.
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Yeah, We we never looked back.
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Never looked back.
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Mm-hmm.
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So I'd love to talk a little bit about how you got into ghost writing And now you're matching ghost writers with projects.
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I will say I've never been a ghost
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writer
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I have, you know,
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really?
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Oh, I didn't realize that.
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No, it's true.
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Yeah.
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Never.
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I've, I've edited until I'm blue in the face.
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All different kinds of things.
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But as far as actually, becoming someone's voice
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on the
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it's not something I've done.
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Interesting.
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Okay.
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But I will say, in terms of the work that I do on the ghostwriting side, I work with one company to, to do matchmaking work, and that is meeting with clients and seeing what their need is.
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And again, it's.
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It's like you're part matchmaker, you're part therapist because you're really getting on that call going, okay, what do you need?
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What is this project?
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Why does it matter to you?
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And why are you doing it?
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And that, that's the basis of how you start the conversation.
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And then from that, you're talking to'em, you're learning about, the shape and form of it, and you're getting a sense of their needs.
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Then from there, you're considering who are the writers available who might be a good fit for this.
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And it's really, I think that's an important piece of it where you get these people who can be subject matter experts.
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They can be thought leaders, they can be founders, CEOs, creators of some kind or another, they create social movements.
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They're great in front of a crowd.
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But then you say.
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Can you write this down?
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And they go, right, right.
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It's so interesting.
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They could talk to 500 people.
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Exactly.
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But can't.
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Yeah.
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They're, they, I mean they, they can activate entirely in one way, but then, another way they might put pen to paper and you just get notes, which I think to throw a cover on those and say, Hey, here's this book.
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Read it.
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Someone's gonna go.
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Not a book, But then if you find someone who is a match for them in, their thought patterns, their style, and they can capture their voice on the page, suddenly you get that magic, alchemical connection where they're able to meet with that person and say, here's what I wanna say.
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And that person goes, yes.
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and then they're off to the races, I like it a lot.
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I really the therapy, illusion I just made, I think is apt in many senses where you see people light up talking about their idea and I go, ah, it's beautiful.
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What would you say I don't know if I was the best ghost writer.
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I think I've, I think I'm all right at it.
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What would you say are the qualities of a good ghost writer?
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I would say, first of all, I don't know that you can necessarily, I don't know if there, there will be an absolute list on that.
00:12:49.506 --> 00:12:51.756
But what I would say is that somebody who can approach
00:12:51.772 --> 00:12:52.206
a project
00:12:52.282 --> 00:12:52.672
without a
00:12:52.672 --> 00:12:53.422
sense of ego,
00:12:53.721 --> 00:12:54.591
that's what I was thinking.
00:12:54.636 --> 00:13:01.667
And to be able to really get to the crux of what the person wants to say without the sense of, oh, I wanna put my spin on this, or here's how I would do it.
00:13:01.716 --> 00:13:13.417
Because I think you, you have to be able to take your skillset and you have to be able to map it to somebody's need, And then I think also flexibility is, is a massive asset, and, the ability to take feedback, I think for, for any writer, arguably that's, very important.
00:13:13.447 --> 00:13:14.136
Vital, even.
00:13:14.706 --> 00:13:27.797
But for ghost writing, I think where, it is you air quotes on the page, but it's not really you because it's the client, it's whatever their need is and it, it's in their voice, it's in their style, it's in their kind of, how aggressive are they?
00:13:27.797 --> 00:13:28.787
How passive are they?
00:13:28.787 --> 00:13:31.476
How what is their mix of kind of tone and style and voice.
00:13:31.567 --> 00:13:37.576
And then familiarizing yourself with that, and being able to apply that to use your skills, to disappear behind the words.
00:13:37.876 --> 00:13:39.167
And then from that point.
00:13:39.736 --> 00:13:44.397
Create something that they're going to, they're going to love that will meet their needs, meet their message, do whatever it has to do out in the world.
00:13:45.297 --> 00:13:45.657
Yeah.
00:13:45.662 --> 00:13:51.142
I feel like the ability to emotionally detach, but also, work with passion.
00:13:51.142 --> 00:13:51.231
Mm-hmm.
00:13:51.412 --> 00:13:59.402
Because I found for myself sometimes, I would start getting emotionally involved in the story or wanting a certain things to go a certain way.
00:13:59.761 --> 00:14:05.642
But you wanna advocate for what will make the book best, but also what makes it the client happy.
00:14:05.677 --> 00:14:05.942
So
00:14:05.971 --> 00:14:08.251
I guess, I'd actually kick back to you for a second on that.
00:14:08.351 --> 00:14:14.381
How did you confront that challenge, that sort of finding the ego or the sense of kind of self bleeding into the work?
00:14:14.412 --> 00:14:15.206
What was your approach there?
00:14:16.047 --> 00:14:20.652
Yeah, I had to remind myself this is their book, not mine.
00:14:20.961 --> 00:14:25.996
I, i, what I think doesn't matter, but also myself assert myself too when I needed to.
00:14:25.996 --> 00:14:27.442
So that was the interesting challenge.
00:14:28.642 --> 00:14:32.121
But people would always say, oh, so your name's not gonna be on it.
00:14:32.121 --> 00:14:32.932
aren't you mad?
00:14:32.976 --> 00:14:35.381
and I'm, I don't give no, I I name.
00:14:35.557 --> 00:14:35.846
yeah.
00:14:36.267 --> 00:14:36.927
Got a paycheck.
00:14:37.662 --> 00:14:38.022
Right.
00:14:38.876 --> 00:14:45.206
The other thing that's interesting is that many of the people who hire have the money to hire someone to write their book.
00:14:45.567 --> 00:14:47.397
They have done interesting things.
00:14:47.447 --> 00:14:49.996
They are often a little eccentric.
00:14:50.027 --> 00:14:55.956
And they let you into their interesting world, and you're like a their chef or their housekeeper.
00:14:56.048 --> 00:14:56.407
Exactly.
00:14:57.756 --> 00:15:00.572
Someone's walking the dog, someone's writing book, someone's making the salad.
00:15:00.947 --> 00:15:02.197
You're just on staff.
00:15:02.586 --> 00:15:03.616
Um, So yeah.
00:15:03.701 --> 00:15:12.676
Did you find, or were you ever in place where it was hard to find your voice again, having written written for these different clients, I guess yeah.
00:15:12.716 --> 00:15:21.546
honestly, I think that for me it, it is difficult, and really, we've talked a bit offline about, the challenges of finding the time, finding the, breaking through the inertia on writing.
00:15:21.936 --> 00:15:27.655
And for me, I think having tried so many different pies within the industry, it's a bit hard to clear my palate.
00:15:28.135 --> 00:15:31.105
To go, okay, I'm going to factor out the ghost dreading world.
00:15:31.105 --> 00:15:33.456
I'm going to factor out, the think tank wonky stuff.
00:15:33.956 --> 00:15:36.785
And then get back to, my, my voice on the page.
00:15:36.785 --> 00:15:37.865
I think that, that is a challenge.
00:15:37.865 --> 00:15:41.105
It's not so much the inability to access the voice.
00:15:41.166 --> 00:15:44.706
It's the discipline to make the time.
00:15:44.760 --> 00:15:50.010
And to be able to go, okay, I know I have to, finish X, Y, Z deadlines today.
00:15:50.010 --> 00:15:54.721
I have x, Y, Z deadlines tomorrow, the next day I have to go to the gym, I have to do my laundry.
00:15:54.721 --> 00:15:55.951
I, what am I gonna make for dinner?
00:15:55.951 --> 00:15:56.581
I don't know.
00:15:56.640 --> 00:15:58.350
And then to block all this stuff out.
00:15:58.350 --> 00:16:00.966
And especially, you know, as freelancers you can I'm sure empathize.
00:16:01.356 --> 00:16:07.706
You have to be such a master of your own time, and for me, I think time management, I am so good when it comes to clients.
00:16:07.886 --> 00:16:08.366
I am
00:16:08.966 --> 00:16:09.626
That's good when
00:16:09.626 --> 00:16:10.302
it comes to myself.
00:16:10.841 --> 00:16:11.292
Yeah.
00:16:11.292 --> 00:16:20.831
It's like, what is, what is that it's like, Oh, like even organization, like my file organization on my computer, for my project folders, all beautiful.
00:16:21.042 --> 00:16:24.302
Then my writing, i'd never know where my documents are.
00:16:24.407 --> 00:16:24.496
but
00:16:25.491 --> 00:16:26.086
I mean, I don't know.
00:16:26.086 --> 00:16:27.856
My, my invoice folders are.
00:16:28.506 --> 00:16:34.006
Hospital, corner bed style, so tight, down to the week, the hour, the minute
00:16:34.996 --> 00:16:37.486
Nothing in my life is organized so i'm impressed by you
00:16:37.486 --> 00:16:41.647
of we We all have our strengths Strengths.
00:16:41.652 --> 00:16:41.761
Yeah,
00:16:42.341 --> 00:16:43.152
we do do Yeah.
00:16:43.152 --> 00:16:43.432
Yeah.
00:16:43.471 --> 00:16:43.472
Yeah.
00:16:44.032 --> 00:16:48.371
is have you trying out anything these days, like for cleanse
00:16:48.476 --> 00:17:00.836
I would say, i'm trying to dedicate, certain days of the week to, to my own work, and I think, oftentimes it will be a Friday because Fridays are slower, the invoices are out, the deadlines are met, and I say, okay, I have, four or five hours here to do this.
00:17:01.376 --> 00:17:03.356
And to some extent of late that has worked.
00:17:03.456 --> 00:17:18.747
Where I've been, I'm working on something, creatively now, and I'm, I would say in the research and pre drafting phase, where I'm making a lot of notes, I'm pulling a lot of sources, I'm doing a lot of kind of digging into kind of the things I wanna write about, and I'm making time for that in a really set way.
00:17:18.876 --> 00:17:21.326
And that, in that case, it's it helped, and it's helped a lot.
00:17:21.326 --> 00:17:24.777
'cause my Mondays through Thursdays, honestly, are usually pretty hectic.
00:17:24.876 --> 00:17:25.116
Right.
00:17:25.116 --> 00:17:27.856
And that's actually good'cause you're cleaning the palate for the weekend.
00:17:27.946 --> 00:17:33.346
And this is something that I'd be curious to, to hear from you both about is how sacred are your weekends?
00:17:33.406 --> 00:17:36.882
Because I would say my weekends are immensely sacred to me.
00:17:36.932 --> 00:17:42.551
I know people who are freelancers who will, they will be freelance writers and they'll say, oh, no I'm working all day Saturday, and half a Sunday.
00:17:43.412 --> 00:17:45.392
I'm thinking to myself, I respect that.
00:17:45.392 --> 00:17:46.261
I respect that hustle.
00:17:46.261 --> 00:17:47.251
I respect that grind.
00:17:47.852 --> 00:17:48.781
When are you living?
00:17:49.352 --> 00:17:50.251
When are you living?
00:17:50.342 --> 00:17:52.922
Because I think, there, there's this great, I'm gonna mangle it.
00:17:52.922 --> 00:17:59.582
I'm sure there's a great Fran Lebowitz quote about how writers need to experience life and they have to be out in the world.
00:17:59.582 --> 00:18:01.461
They have to be, taking a walk in a park.
00:18:01.656 --> 00:18:05.806
I I think the one she uses is sitting at a bar, listening to people more or less bullshit.
00:18:06.375 --> 00:18:06.556
Yeah.
00:18:06.586 --> 00:18:08.836
And to go, alright, soak all that in.
00:18:08.836 --> 00:18:14.425
Because I think ultimately writers and, i'm sure you could pull a thousand analogies, but I think of writers as a sponge to the world.
00:18:15.056 --> 00:18:22.246
And we're soaking things in and we're saying, okay, here's what I've taken in, here's how I'm going to wring it out in an entirely different form.
00:18:22.516 --> 00:18:24.496
And then, and in that way to express yourself.
00:18:24.596 --> 00:18:29.381
So in that case, I think of my weekends as sacred because that's what I am experiencing, and and doing
00:18:31.270 --> 00:18:33.986
try do laundry in the middle the week always my goal
00:18:34.520 --> 00:18:35.280
a bold choice,
00:18:35.351 --> 00:18:37.056
and that's how I keep my weekend sacred.
00:18:37.125 --> 00:18:40.750
They're not for laundry and they're not for grocery shopping because first of
00:18:40.766 --> 00:18:41.066
all, those
00:18:41.066 --> 00:18:43.105
places are too crowded, especially on a Sunday.
00:18:43.105 --> 00:18:43.796
Absolutely not.
00:18:44.435 --> 00:18:46.026
I'm pretty lazy as I've mentioned.
00:18:46.066 --> 00:18:51.526
So I would say I'm a hardcore happy hour to Saturday night.
00:18:51.855 --> 00:18:54.346
No, I don't wanna think about any kind of work.
00:18:54.566 --> 00:19:04.566
Sunday there's a, I might try to do something, probably not a ton, but just a little to, to probably, partly to give like the, get the Sunday scaries out
00:19:04.635 --> 00:19:04.875
Right?
00:19:04.881 --> 00:19:04.990
Right.
00:19:05.020 --> 00:19:07.240
So that i'm like, not oh, Monday, what is your life?
00:19:07.246 --> 00:19:07.596
Like a
00:19:07.625 --> 00:19:07.935
soft
00:19:07.935 --> 00:19:08.586
reentry right?
00:19:08.746 --> 00:19:09.705
soft reentry.
00:19:09.846 --> 00:19:12.195
So Also, evenings are when there are readings right.
00:19:12.195 --> 00:19:13.316
make time for the readings
00:19:13.780 --> 00:19:14.921
How do you feel about readings?
00:19:15.776 --> 00:19:19.695
I like seeing the people who are reading these books in person.
00:19:19.746 --> 00:19:23.645
Because I think reading is such a solitary activity for the most part, outside of book clubs.
00:19:23.645 --> 00:19:24.996
one of those, we can talk about that too.
00:19:24.996 --> 00:19:25.026
Oh.
00:19:25.431 --> 00:19:25.461
Oh.
00:19:25.895 --> 00:19:26.556
But, um, um
00:19:26.556 --> 00:19:28.836
I'm trying to get into a book club, no one will ever let me in.
00:19:29.346 --> 00:19:30.605
Wait, wow.
00:19:30.611 --> 00:19:44.486
Exclusive book clubs you're trying to get into the VIP, I think that, it's nice to see honestly the people who are consuming the stuff that everyone's making, and to see the passion, where you get someone who just come up and they'll say, oh, I just finished this book and I love this book.
00:19:44.705 --> 00:19:50.885
And the sense of just the appreciation where, I think we can finish a book, close a page and go, oh, that was nice.
00:19:50.935 --> 00:19:51.536
I like that.
00:19:51.536 --> 00:19:59.556
But you're not really, very often you're not in community with people and that's one of the rare outlets outside of, literary festivals and those sort of things to do that.
00:19:59.925 --> 00:20:02.506
And I think also, like I say this with love.
00:20:03.181 --> 00:20:04.246
Book people are weird.
00:20:04.336 --> 00:20:07.395
and I think that's fantastic because like we need more weird in the world.
00:20:07.836 --> 00:20:12.161
But then, you see all the weird when you go to these readings, like How come as you are, Come as you are.
00:20:12.550 --> 00:20:13.451
And people do that to readings.
00:20:13.451 --> 00:20:13.480
Uh,
00:20:14.066 --> 00:20:18.385
I would say like about 60% of the time I regret going to a reading.
00:20:18.851 --> 00:20:18.881
Oh.
00:20:19.465 --> 00:20:19.496
Ooh.
00:20:19.915 --> 00:20:23.965
But it's really dependent on how the writer is as a performer.
00:20:24.566 --> 00:20:27.806
Like some people, they just don't have a great reading voice.
00:20:27.806 --> 00:20:28.915
I'm probably one of them.
00:20:28.976 --> 00:20:33.806
And they're just, they don't know how to make it come alive, and then I just can't listen.
00:20:33.836 --> 00:20:33.895
Yeah.
00:20:34.195 --> 00:20:35.576
I think they should be like five minutes.
00:20:36.115 --> 00:20:38.576
And then the, the talk should be longer the question Yeah
00:20:38.576 --> 00:20:41.276
Like q and an hour, reading 10 10 minutes.
00:20:41.425 --> 00:20:41.665
Yeah.
00:20:41.665 --> 00:20:41.694
yeah.
00:20:42.470 --> 00:20:43.940
If P-S-A-P-S-A
00:20:44.144 --> 00:20:44.265
a.
00:20:45.035 --> 00:20:49.275
Or so I went to this reading and actually hopefully we'll get this woman on our show.
00:20:49.444 --> 00:20:50.285
Hawley Hussey.
00:20:50.625 --> 00:20:51.644
She's an artist and writer.
00:20:51.674 --> 00:20:55.079
She, I went to her reading and she made it so fun.
00:20:55.109 --> 00:20:56.505
first of all, she lives in Coney Island.
00:20:56.555 --> 00:21:04.505
So what she did was she would read parts of her book and then she'd have friends do little performances in between the reading part.
00:21:04.684 --> 00:21:09.454
So she had someone do a little guitar, she had someone do a dance.
00:21:09.710 --> 00:21:13.359
I can't remember exactly all the things, but it was there were all these different sections.
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:18.221
So instead of one chunk of reading, it was broken up with I guess guess Palate cleansers.
00:21:18.221 --> 00:21:18.785
Pallet cleansers.
00:21:19.029 --> 00:21:22.055
And then we had questions and talks in between that.
00:21:22.055 --> 00:21:24.400
So it was a very dynamic reading.
00:21:29.499 --> 00:21:36.479
I will say, it, it's funny, your point about the author's voice not always being the best for speaking Meryl, I think about that in audio books too.
00:21:36.773 --> 00:21:38.003
You know where I mean in the book club?
00:21:38.544 --> 00:21:56.173
In the book club, I try and mostly read on paper, but here and there I will get, a Spotify audio book version and there was one book, I'm not gonna say the title because I don't wanna besmirch the narrator, but the voice was so grading it was this sort of an I'll do the best that I can.
00:21:56.953 --> 00:21:58.159
It was very much a kind of.
00:21:59.013 --> 00:22:01.624
This sort of tone, and then it was a lot of vocal fry.
00:22:02.284 --> 00:22:04.203
So i, I could not listen.
00:22:04.209 --> 00:22:04.578
That for hours.
00:22:04.584 --> 00:22:06.874
That was the, I was and it was the entire book.
00:22:06.903 --> 00:22:08.304
And these jobs are hard to get.
00:22:08.384 --> 00:22:08.894
I know.
00:22:08.894 --> 00:22:12.733
And I know a couple audiobook narrators and they're really, it's a fierce competitive Yeah.
00:22:12.733 --> 00:22:12.734
Yeah.
00:22:13.314 --> 00:22:16.183
But I will say that it really got through it because I sped up the tempo.
00:22:18.374 --> 00:22:22.753
So I went to about time and a half and then suddenly it was little Fry, but it was a bit faster.
00:22:22.753 --> 00:22:25.513
So I could just go through this way and the chapters they flowed.
00:22:25.513 --> 00:22:26.473
I got through it.
00:22:26.503 --> 00:22:28.223
I will say I when I listen to that one again?
00:22:28.314 --> 00:22:30.173
No, but I was ready for the discussion.
00:22:30.263 --> 00:22:30.509
Yeah.
00:22:30.509 --> 00:22:30.509
Yeah.
00:22:31.013 --> 00:22:36.534
So I don't wanna potentially besmirch to your book club, but I'm curious are there a lot of writers in there?
00:22:36.564 --> 00:22:39.034
How is it as a writer and a publisher?
00:22:39.153 --> 00:22:39.814
It's interesting.
00:22:39.814 --> 00:22:41.689
We don't have a lot of writers in our.
00:22:41.763 --> 00:22:43.669
Uh, book club there's two of us.
00:22:43.699 --> 00:22:43.729
Oh.
00:22:44.493 --> 00:22:48.009
does hearing their perspectives, did it, does it feel different than the...
00:22:48.834 --> 00:22:50.253
it does because here's the thing.
00:22:50.253 --> 00:22:55.568
The club is run by, like a a dear friend and former colleague of mine who is, she's the other writer in the group.
00:22:56.019 --> 00:22:58.479
And then there are a couple of teachers.
00:22:59.094 --> 00:23:00.578
And they bring That's interesting.
00:23:00.644 --> 00:23:04.584
Like the educational component and really, when, one of them, she says all the time, and I love it.
00:23:04.584 --> 00:23:14.403
She's we'll go into this conversation and then people will run off on tangents and she'll always she sits there for a moment and then she goes, okay bring it back.
00:23:14.403 --> 00:23:16.338
And she gestures, she goes to the text.
00:23:16.713 --> 00:23:18.499
Yes we need those we need those
00:23:18.739 --> 00:23:18.741
I love that.
00:23:18.824 --> 00:23:19.193
Love that.
00:23:19.199 --> 00:23:29.374
And she keeps us on track, you know, because someone's like, oh well, and they, and they go off and tell this lovely but rambling story, and then she's always back to the text, and I'm thinking, I appreciate you, Yeah.
00:23:29.378 --> 00:23:31.614
You really bring it home and keep us on track.
00:23:31.723 --> 00:23:42.013
I will say, our book club reads exclusively nonfiction and they're all kind of, we've read history, we've read memoir and, but a lot of them are like really idea driven books.
00:23:42.044 --> 00:23:44.413
So the conversations are always meaty.
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:52.429
And I love that, it really I, generally I think probably'cause I read memoir myself, so it's a hop, skip to read, different, a music memoir, a drug memoir.
00:23:52.528 --> 00:23:54.328
We read that Emily Whit memoir recently.
00:23:54.388 --> 00:24:01.378
And that was such a divisive book, where people really, some people felt like, oh, I love the kind of peak into the oughts music culture.
00:24:01.709 --> 00:24:02.249
Then other people
00:24:02.308 --> 00:24:02.519
like,
00:24:02.638 --> 00:24:03.663
why all the drugs?
00:24:04.169 --> 00:24:05.939
So many drugs?
00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:07.374
We need all the drugs.
00:24:07.523 --> 00:24:08.013
Exactly.
00:24:08.999 --> 00:24:10.858
You know, and I think we it that way.
00:24:10.888 --> 00:24:14.398
It's always funny'cause I, I love the club because you never know how people are going to take something.
00:24:14.699 --> 00:24:28.308
And, and it really we read a book about the blue stockings, which were, like a, and I'm sure you both know like a, a very kind of revolutionary group of women who were writing and thinking and speaking and having salons in a time when that was not done generally, or it was for the men.
00:24:29.088 --> 00:24:48.423
And we really, that was such a great kind of moment of looking back at writing as not just in industry, but something that people engage with and, dealing with, looking the historical complications of that and really the beauty that came out of it, and outta these people who were willing to fight for what they wanted to talk about, think about, write about, and they wrote books upon books.
00:24:48.473 --> 00:24:49.763
These women individually.
00:24:49.834 --> 00:24:52.384
So it was really, I with that stuff in our club.
00:24:52.384 --> 00:24:52.979
It's enjoyable.
00:24:54.374 --> 00:24:56.653
Do you have any top memoirs that you like?
00:24:56.679 --> 00:25:00.838
The one that I often tell people to read is Sally'Manns Holds Still.
00:25:00.838 --> 00:25:00.868
Okay.
00:25:01.648 --> 00:25:06.538
She's a photographer and it's an unusual memoir where it deals with her.
00:25:06.588 --> 00:25:08.308
First of all, because she's a photographer.
00:25:08.308 --> 00:25:10.098
It's very visually rich too.
00:25:10.199 --> 00:25:12.239
So it's text dense and visually rich.
00:25:12.634 --> 00:25:15.028
Visually as in as in she has a lot of pictures in there?
00:25:15.058 --> 00:25:15.719
Exactly.
00:25:15.778 --> 00:25:15.989
yep.
00:25:16.019 --> 00:25:16.693
Throughout the entire book.
00:25:16.919 --> 00:25:20.068
She has and really the, the great part is, she talks some about the craft.
00:25:20.433 --> 00:25:21.394
and refining her craft.
00:25:21.453 --> 00:25:25.814
And she'll show, in the book she shows like photos that didn't quite make the cut.
00:25:25.913 --> 00:25:29.183
and you really get the sort of guidance on the page through her words.
00:25:29.183 --> 00:25:31.463
And then you see it play out with the visuals as well.
00:25:32.003 --> 00:25:34.263
But it's also, it's a great book because it's multifaceted.
00:25:34.364 --> 00:25:40.784
It deals with, her historical, considering her family, and their involvement with enslaved people in the American South.
00:25:40.874 --> 00:25:46.243
And it really is just it's her life as a photographer, but also her life against this massive context.
00:25:46.394 --> 00:25:48.284
And, and I will say it's, it is a meaty book.
00:25:48.284 --> 00:25:54.854
I think it's probably, it might be like 500 pages, probably less, but I think it's at least 400.
00:25:55.374 --> 00:26:02.979
But it's a book where I really I go to bat for that every time, you know, and every time I recommend and I say to someone, you have to be ready for some heavy, dark stuff.
00:26:02.979 --> 00:26:05.989
You have to be ready for some beauty and you have to be ready for just sticking it out.
00:26:06.118 --> 00:26:07.888
Cause it's a very intensely written book.
00:26:07.939 --> 00:26:11.009
and I would also say everyone should read not to jump on the soapbox.
00:26:11.009 --> 00:26:12.778
Again, more Fran Lebowitz, but what's
00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:13.739
please, Oh yeah
00:26:13.739 --> 00:26:15.058
New yorkers read more, fran.
00:26:15.868 --> 00:26:16.134
Oh God, yes.
00:26:16.394 --> 00:26:16.614
Yes.
00:26:16.949 --> 00:26:17.878
And she write more.
00:26:17.909 --> 00:26:18.749
as she should.
00:26:18.929 --> 00:26:20.009
Please come on.
00:26:20.864 --> 00:26:21.648
It's it's been a long time
00:26:21.648 --> 00:26:22.338
today We're waiting.
00:26:22.429 --> 00:26:22.909
We're waiting.
00:26:23.249 --> 00:26:24.059
And I would say that because.
00:26:24.354 --> 00:26:30.394
Really she's the, in some sense it's opposite of Sally man, where that, that is a book at length and Fran can do nothing at length.
00:26:30.443 --> 00:26:30.584
No.
00:26:30.693 --> 00:26:34.054
She is bite-sized snippets, bon mots, witticisms.
00:26:34.864 --> 00:26:37.233
And I think now, particularly just again, in my
00:26:37.249 --> 00:26:38.118
own point of view
00:26:38.564 --> 00:26:40.519
we need those critical voices mm-hmm.
00:26:40.569 --> 00:26:42.190
who are not afraid to offend.
00:26:42.339 --> 00:26:42.609
Yeah.
00:26:42.670 --> 00:26:42.880
Yeah.
00:26:42.940 --> 00:26:49.299
And who aren't afraid to speak truth to power, and be willing to call things out, where I think a lot of people are a little more.
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:50.480
Trepidatious now.
00:26:51.234 --> 00:26:51.744
there's definitely
00:26:51.744 --> 00:26:53.140
a element of
00:26:53.140 --> 00:26:53.980
fear and anxiety.
00:26:53.984 --> 00:26:54.125
something.
00:26:54.130 --> 00:26:54.339
something.
00:26:54.339 --> 00:26:54.700
in the air.
00:26:55.539 --> 00:26:55.990
Yeah.
00:26:55.990 --> 00:27:02.079
I'm gonna bungle her quote, but one of the quotes that I love by her is something about people now think that rich people are smart.
00:27:02.305 --> 00:27:04.164
Anyone who thinks that rich people are smart,
00:27:04.299 --> 00:27:04.690
never met
00:27:04.704 --> 00:27:05.005
anyone
00:27:05.005 --> 00:27:06.684
smart and never met anyone rich.
00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:07.289
Right?
00:27:09.595 --> 00:27:09.984
Snaps.
00:27:10.015 --> 00:27:10.345
better
00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:12.009
Snaps
00:27:12.029 --> 00:27:12.450
for that.
00:27:17.898 --> 00:27:33.578
I think one of the things that, that upsets me about AI every, a lot of things upset me is the idea like of the jobs that aren't necessarily being a creative writer that are ways to write and people who have the skillset of writing are going to really disappear.
00:27:33.909 --> 00:27:36.489
And I've had friends say things like who cares?
00:27:36.489 --> 00:27:37.898
That's not really writing anyway.
00:27:38.078 --> 00:27:40.298
But it's very hard to make money in this world.
00:27:40.298 --> 00:27:48.219
And if you have the skill of being a writer, there aren't opportunities and some of these jobs, like writing content.
00:27:48.278 --> 00:27:55.513
Going, all of that stuff, going to AI, it just means that there's less people with our skills who can make money and live well.
00:27:55.513 --> 00:27:58.544
And I, I would argue also, think about it in the long tail, right?
00:27:58.874 --> 00:28:02.439
As time goes on, if there are fewer of those people, what happens to communication?
00:28:03.459 --> 00:28:06.148
how we communicate and speak to each other, and you,
00:28:06.148 --> 00:28:09.338
if we were not even learning or valuing that as a human skill
00:28:09.429 --> 00:28:09.699
exactly.
00:28:10.013 --> 00:28:10.193
Yeah.
00:28:10.449 --> 00:28:10.598
Yeah.
00:28:11.398 --> 00:28:14.183
back to grunts and like we're going back down yes.
00:28:14.544 --> 00:28:16.419
evolutionary, Yes scale.
00:28:16.419 --> 00:28:16.530
Yes, exactly.
00:28:16.530 --> 00:28:17.213
exactly
00:28:18.923 --> 00:28:20.394
there, there's an arc for everything, right?
00:28:20.394 --> 00:28:20.453
Yeah.
00:28:20.479 --> 00:28:21.969
maybe we're on the downward trend.
00:28:21.973 --> 00:28:22.034
No.
00:28:22.523 --> 00:28:30.064
I tell my students, like when I was teaching English composition, cause no one wants to be there and I'm like, look, you can use if you want, whatever.
00:28:30.064 --> 00:28:33.913
But having your own voice that keeps you relevant, yeah.
00:28:33.943 --> 00:28:35.173
Don't be replaceable by machines.
00:28:35.223 --> 00:28:43.999
Like you are, you have a story to tell whatever it is, and through whatever means you live in this world And yeah,
00:28:44.314 --> 00:28:45.034
Don't give that up.
00:28:45.038 --> 00:28:45.618
Don't up.
00:28:45.618 --> 00:28:45.818
Exactly
00:28:45.818 --> 00:28:47.314
Don't give that up give that readily.
00:28:47.713 --> 00:28:51.544
Here's the thing is I think, can we wave a magic wand and make it, make AI not a thing anymore?
00:28:51.574 --> 00:28:52.144
No, we can't.
00:28:52.473 --> 00:28:57.273
I think, and I think realistically we have to grapple with what that means for the writing industry and entertainment as a whole.
00:28:58.064 --> 00:28:59.534
But I think there are, it's.
00:29:00.163 --> 00:29:01.094
It's advancing.
00:29:01.124 --> 00:29:10.634
But I think about, for one example, I remember reading a story about somebody going to AI and asking, I don't know if it was GPT or some other service, what do I put on a pizza to make cheese stick?
00:29:10.729 --> 00:29:13.653
and the answer came back was glue.
00:29:15.273 --> 00:29:15.564
Okay.
00:29:15.564 --> 00:29:15.884
Perfect.
00:29:16.114 --> 00:29:16.403
Okay,
00:29:16.578 --> 00:29:17.318
Yes, that works.
00:29:17.423 --> 00:29:18.693
so we're okay for a for a minute.
00:29:18.723 --> 00:29:19.213
Exactly.
00:29:19.213 --> 00:29:26.473
and I think that, it's going to get better, but also I think, you know what does interest me is how people will engage with it and work with it.
00:29:26.503 --> 00:29:34.233
I've read so many job postings for AI, prompt engineers, people who are communicating with, and feeding the best possible linguistics into the ai.
00:29:35.028 --> 00:29:36.259
I think that's a temporary job.
00:29:36.469 --> 00:29:40.128
I think that's something that will, as soon as AI advances enough, that will go away too.
00:29:40.729 --> 00:29:43.969
But I'm curious to see, how people use it organizationally.
00:29:44.038 --> 00:29:46.858
For example, and let's just, let's spitball for a second here.
00:29:47.308 --> 00:29:57.598
Let's say you're trying to outline something and you're stuck, and you're thinking, okay, I have a vague idea for how I wanna do this I know, the kind of themes I wanna touch on, the kind of characters I might employ for the first, three to five of them.
00:29:58.439 --> 00:30:00.943
And then let's say you bring it to aI and you say.
00:30:01.483 --> 00:30:14.999
Okay give me an outline modeled after Hamlet, but using these kinds of characters make these sort of plot points and beats and things to jump off from and then it spits something back at you, potentially.
00:30:15.058 --> 00:30:16.229
Would that be serviceable?
00:30:16.348 --> 00:30:16.739
I don't know.
00:30:17.534 --> 00:30:19.483
But maybe for someone to say, okay, you know what?
00:30:19.483 --> 00:30:20.864
Now I have a draft outline.
00:30:20.864 --> 00:30:21.523
Do I love it?
00:30:21.523 --> 00:30:21.854
No.
00:30:21.854 --> 00:30:22.574
Is it perfect?
00:30:22.574 --> 00:30:23.023
No.
00:30:23.233 --> 00:30:26.084
Did it give me, a recipe for putting glue on pizza in the middle?
00:30:26.114 --> 00:30:26.443
Maybe.
00:30:27.354 --> 00:30:33.304
Here's a serviceable document based upon plot points of Hamlet that I can then take and adapt from my own uses.
00:30:33.909 --> 00:30:35.318
And then write your own work.
00:30:35.348 --> 00:30:39.489
By no means, I think like the problem is in using it solely for generative writing.
00:30:39.608 --> 00:30:39.848
Right.
00:30:39.898 --> 00:30:43.159
Because then you get, Ariana, to your point, the lack of voice.
00:30:43.219 --> 00:30:48.249
But I think about a sense of where, using it as that jumping off point versus the generative language.
00:30:48.278 --> 00:30:48.368
Right.
00:30:48.368 --> 00:30:55.808
Because really, you get, I mean they, they said the piece said something about AI loves to use the word delve, so everything's always, you're always delving into something.
00:30:55.929 --> 00:30:56.798
Which is very dramatic.
00:30:57.199 --> 00:30:59.509
Just thinking about different applications there I agree.
00:30:59.509 --> 00:31:05.898
Where if the tide turns and it is a generative use and a full scale replacement of jobs.
00:31:06.723 --> 00:31:07.443
That's a problem.
00:31:08.034 --> 00:31:11.253
And we don't have UBI right now, so so Yeah.
00:31:11.253 --> 00:31:12.193
What are people gonna do?
00:31:12.278 --> 00:31:12.578
Right,
00:31:12.864 --> 00:31:17.788
I think also the fear is also' it is taking from other, from artists' work,
00:31:17.794 --> 00:31:19.493
7 million copyright and work.
00:31:19.493 --> 00:31:19.494
Right?
00:31:19.494 --> 00:31:20.054
Works that we're in
00:31:20.263 --> 00:31:23.374
so they're, so they're, actually stealings stealing stuff.
00:31:23.433 --> 00:31:25.953
So it's not really generating anything new.
00:31:26.003 --> 00:31:29.943
It's taking from existing stuff and and Remixing.
00:31:29.943 --> 00:31:30.124
Yeah.
00:31:30.153 --> 00:31:30.304
Yeah.
00:31:30.304 --> 00:31:30.693
Which is.
00:31:31.864 --> 00:31:32.493
Problematic.
00:31:32.824 --> 00:31:36.753
And I think also, and i'd be curious to hear both of your points on this or perspectives.
00:31:37.384 --> 00:31:44.598
I worry about in a world where culture gets lazy and good enough is good enough.
00:31:44.699 --> 00:31:45.868
What does that do to high art?.
00:31:47.669 --> 00:31:48.659
think it's all terrible.
00:31:48.898 --> 00:31:52.098
This might be a optimistic point of view, but taking the movie industry yeah.
00:31:52.098 --> 00:31:52.909
As an example.
00:31:53.068 --> 00:31:56.098
At this point, Marvel's just churning out.
00:31:56.098 --> 00:31:58.294
out It's a lot of this stuff is good enough.
00:31:58.354 --> 00:32:00.124
Most streaming sites and have to just be Marvel.
00:32:00.173 --> 00:32:07.423
Streaming sites are just like these movies, these TV shows that are just underdeveloped they could be good, but they're just like, eh, that'll work.
00:32:07.423 --> 00:32:08.173
Let's do it.
00:32:08.503 --> 00:32:19.233
But then you get Sinners for example, and it blows up or Severance, people do react to things that are actually stimulating or have a unique point of view.
00:32:19.304 --> 00:32:22.394
So I feel like that will still exist.
00:32:22.443 --> 00:32:27.469
Whether these, the gatekeepers, the money people will give money to these folks that's another question.
00:32:27.469 --> 00:32:31.489
But I think artists will still make art, you know, dark ages.
00:32:31.489 --> 00:32:34.189
We still, we the renaissance after Right.
00:32:34.189 --> 00:32:39.259
I think that there is a desire when we engage with art to be engaging with other humans.
00:32:39.318 --> 00:32:39.378
Yeah.
00:32:39.409 --> 00:32:46.294
So I just don't see how AI could actually replace that for and make us feel feel same way yeah
00:32:46.588 --> 00:33:06.483
There, yeah, there's that loneliness epidemic with the younger generations and they're actually talking to AI someone, was it you were telling me Meryl, no, my friend was like, I was on the train and I just glanced over at someone's phone and I didn't mean to read it, but I realized this woman was or this girl, was texting to an aI bot all her feelings
00:33:06.963 --> 00:33:10.804
yeah I this is happening a lot and it's really weird,
00:33:11.699 --> 00:33:16.979
I have to imagine that it'll backswing in that you realize you, all you want is to connect with somebody.
00:33:17.088 --> 00:33:19.038
Or maybe it won't, maybe it'll be better.
00:33:19.189 --> 00:33:21.798
Maybe people will love hearing robot.
00:33:21.828 --> 00:33:23.219
Like there will be less conflict.
00:33:23.219 --> 00:33:23.328
No.
00:33:23.328 --> 00:33:23.818
All right.
00:33:23.838 --> 00:33:24.288
Let's see.
00:33:24.398 --> 00:33:26.868
less conflict because of the robots mean robots yes,
00:33:26.923 --> 00:33:27.903
No, not
00:33:27.903 --> 00:33:28.183
human.
00:33:29.644 --> 00:33:30.401
Think the are
00:33:30.679 --> 00:33:32.628
they're gonna create even more division.
00:33:33.078 --> 00:33:33.558
What I mean?
00:33:33.558 --> 00:33:40.219
But they'll be like, you are nice to me in in a way that humans aren't, oh, like they what have to deal saying with the conflict of other actual humans.
00:33:40.219 --> 00:33:40.519
Humans
00:33:40.878 --> 00:33:43.239
But then, it raises the point of is some conflict.
00:33:43.239 --> 00:33:43.598
Good?
00:33:43.598 --> 00:33:43.689
Right?
00:33:43.749 --> 00:33:45.009
Does it push you to grow?
00:33:45.068 --> 00:33:49.538
Does it push you to confront your, your faults, your failings, other people's faults and failing shortcomings?
00:33:49.923 --> 00:33:50.473
I would think so.
00:33:50.503 --> 00:33:50.753
so That's
00:33:50.784 --> 00:33:54.912
you can't be, That's why I think it's really hard to be with somebody who's exactly like you.
00:33:55.182 --> 00:33:55.392
Right?
00:33:55.422 --> 00:33:57.807
Because you, you need that, you need the tension.
00:33:57.882 --> 00:33:58.241
Right.
00:33:58.301 --> 00:33:58.422
And
00:33:58.422 --> 00:33:58.781
Whereas
00:33:58.781 --> 00:34:00.326
I think it makes it more interesting.
00:34:00.326 --> 00:34:02.126
Makes you think of other things.
00:34:02.307 --> 00:34:05.902
An AI companion, I feel like is just reflect, it's just just a mirror
00:34:06.001 --> 00:34:06.211
yeah.
00:34:06.332 --> 00:34:09.286
And also, to, to your point, like it's this soft of a landing as you want it to be.
00:34:09.436 --> 00:34:13.681
So it's like you could just live in like a marshmallow world of the AI being nice to you,
00:34:13.786 --> 00:34:15.262
but then you go outside and
00:34:16.041 --> 00:34:16.222
Right.
00:34:16.356 --> 00:34:17.827
it's just paroting stuff back to you
00:34:18.041 --> 00:34:19.061
I think we're gonna learn.
00:34:19.061 --> 00:34:20.047
Do people want to grow?
00:34:20.047 --> 00:34:23.856
Do people want to think, do people wanna communicate, I guess the next few years?
00:34:23.856 --> 00:34:24.456
we'll see.
00:34:25.056 --> 00:34:26.202
I'm really curious about that.
00:34:26.692 --> 00:34:27.376
I wanna believe they do.
00:34:27.376 --> 00:34:32.956
And I think some portion will, will I think there are some who maybe won't or don't.
00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:33.840
Yeah.
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:36.135
But, humanity beautiful complex.
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:46.306
In one word, how would you your reading life?
00:34:47.775 --> 00:34:48.496
Expensive
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:50.655
how about your writing life?
00:34:51.375 --> 00:34:51.954
In flux.
00:34:52.454 --> 00:34:54.255
And your weirdest obsession.
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:56.864
Lately it's getting really good at bowling.
00:34:57.945 --> 00:34:58.454
I love that.
00:34:58.545 --> 00:34:58.664
I love
00:34:58.664 --> 00:35:00.284
I joined a social league a year ago.
00:35:00.284 --> 00:35:03.414
It has consumed my Life life that a I bought a ball.
00:35:03.414 --> 00:35:04.313
What does that tell You is there
00:35:04.429 --> 00:35:05.509
You are in there.
00:35:11.434 --> 00:35:15.215
It's all right to love book clubs or It's all right to hate book clubs.
00:35:15.364 --> 00:35:17.239
Yes it's all right to learn from your book club.
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:19.590
club It's all right to push back against the robots.
00:35:19.614 --> 00:35:20.094
Yeah.
00:35:21.625 --> 00:35:22.594
it's all right to tikTok.
00:35:22.610 --> 00:35:22.612
it, right
00:35:23.394 --> 00:35:23.844
Question
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:25.565
Question mark.dot.
00:35:25.625 --> 00:35:28.989
Dot dot dot it's all right to strike out and try Again.
00:35:29.695 --> 00:35:30.385
ooh.
00:35:30.474 --> 00:35:30.744
Yeah.
00:35:30.985 --> 00:35:31.045
Mm.
00:35:32.184 --> 00:35:34.764
it's all right that your weekends are sacred.
00:35:35.170 --> 00:35:35.289
To
00:35:35.304 --> 00:35:36.025
keep your Yeah.
00:35:36.114 --> 00:35:36.804
I love that.
00:35:37.375 --> 00:35:38.005
I love that.
00:35:38.105 --> 00:35:39.755
you can check out.
00:35:39.815 --> 00:35:42.844
It's All Write on most streaming platforms.
00:35:42.844 --> 00:35:46.934
So Apple Spotify, Amazon.
00:35:47.324 --> 00:35:48.585
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00:35:48.635 --> 00:35:57.405
We release new episodes every other Tuesday, so every two Tuesdays you can follow us on Instagram at it's All right pod.
00:35:57.795 --> 00:36:02.684
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00:36:02.684 --> 00:36:05.190
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00:36:06.389 --> 00:36:07.289
Thanks for listening.
00:36:07.385 --> 00:36:08.224
See you next time