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The data centre industry is moving faster than ever, and behind the scenes some seriously smart people are making it all happen.
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Welcome to the Inside Data Centre Podcast, where we dive into the stories, insights, and innovations driving real change across the industry.
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From hyperscale campuses to game-changing technologies, we're talking to the people shaping the future of digital infrastructure.
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Whether you live and breathe data centers or just want to understand what's powering our connected world, you're in the right place.
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Welcome to Inside Data Centre Podcast.
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We're back on the terrace, uh the global commissioning networking terrace, as we've been told to say, um, in Cannes.
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Really looking forward to this episode because we have already talked.
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We've done this is our episode five, I think we've recorded four or five.
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Communities coming up on every single conversation.
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Everyone you speak to is talking about the challenges around community.
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So I really want to dig into that one.
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Delighted to be joined by Ilke from Bulk and Wes from Applied Digital.
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We'll let you guys introduce yourselves.
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So, Ilka, do you want to start?
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Thanks.
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Thanks for the invite, uh Andy.
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So Ilka Esner.
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So I'm leading uh design and uh procurement uh for bulk infrastructure, uh, you know, based out of Norway.
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Um uh Wes Cummins, thanks for having me.
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I'm um founder CEO of Applied Digital, which build large-scale infrastructure in the US.
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Your market is brilliant as well, as I always say.
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But the docuseries is out now.
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Yeah.
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So I'll I'll give the plug.
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It's called Behind the Build.
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Uh we've released two episodes, kind of a Netflix style, you know, documentary on no glossing over what actually happens.
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It's you can see what happens in these communities, these small towns, as we go to build a big infrastructure project.
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So highly recommend.
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No, 100%.
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And it's exactly what the industry needs.
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That's why I wanted to plug it myself as well.
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But um community, it's I say it comes up in every conversation now.
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Like when you're developing or you're entering a region, is it now a key factor in your development?
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So when you're looking to build in a region, is community like at the heart of what this industry does now?
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Uka?
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Yeah, no, 100%.
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And um look, I was uh you know lucky enough like to spend my whole career on data center uh you know, built started in the US, work with uh, you know, uh big companies, and um, and when I see the the change from like 20 years ago when I started and today, it's absolutely uh a big factor right now.
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So I mean if you don't show that you're returning um, you know, the favor to the community, creating that circular economy, and I don't think like you can build a sustainable business.
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So especially like constraints around resources.
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I mean, starting with uh, you know, with energy or or water.
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Um, I mean, these communities like Ruzu looking for um, you know, the the return of the resources that we're using there.
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So uh, and unfortunately data centers, they're not like you know other industries, right?
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So we don't create like thousands of jobs like you know once we build our buildings.
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But I think there are so many different ways like to um to show the value, right?
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So either community outreach or creating opportunities, uh, you know, job opportunities locally.
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I'm on the development side, not on the operation side, uh, but you can just you know establish your strategy in a way that the local community really benefits from you know years of development.
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So even though you bring like you know your international supply chain, I think there's so many ways to um to show the value to the local community.
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And once you uh hit that and and I think you get the support you know behind you, and then you can you can build a sustainable business in that uh locality.
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So yeah, Wes, I know you've done some cool stuff in North Dakota from a community perspective, which is really shaped that community to become part of the development.
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Yeah.
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So so for us, it it's obviously you need to you know know what you're doing from a data center build perspective.
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So we you know, the first for us was figuring this industry out.
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It was brand new, it's been brand new for everyone, not data center, but large scale, high power density.
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Uh so we put all the people in place to to figure that part of it out.
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But then the the way we approach the market is you know, where did these fit best?
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And we're looking for power.
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Uh, and then kind of my background, which gives me a uh a huge amount of pride in what we do.
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So I I grew up in a in a small town that was uh uh 200 people.
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I grew up on a potato farm in Idaho, so it's really stereotypical, actually.
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Uh so um, but you know, I watched what happened to the community I grew up in.
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And what happened is, you know, family farming has largely disappeared, uh, at least in the US, um, but but in a lot of places.
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And so these communities get pretty decimated from what they used to be.
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So it goes to commercial farming, uh, a lot fewer people, a lot more um automation.
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And so these communities have just been slowly dying for decades.
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And so we've we're able to find the the ones that you know have the ingredients that we need, but we go to these communities uh that really need some economic boost.
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And it's it's not just can we uh enhance the community a little bit?
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It's a complete game change for that community.
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So we're in Ellendale, North Dakota is 1100 people.
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We're in Harwood, North Dakota, it's 800 people.
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Now we're in Louisiana, we're in Boise, Louisiana, 600 people.
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Um uh we're in another town in North Dakota, it's uh 600 or 400 people.
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And then so what we bring is really community first.
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And so we come in and we build, you're gonna really enhance the tax base um for them.
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So we we were able to walk in and say, how does you know hundreds of millions of dollars in tax and economic um you know production sound over over a 20 or 25 year period?
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It's amazing for these communities.
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They get to fix their fresh water, they get to fix their sewer, they get to fix their roads.
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Would you like to have the wealthiest school district in the state almost overnight?
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Right.
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Um and then the the things that really hit home is we bring high-paying technical jobs and we train locally for those.
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So we can get 80% of the workforce.
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And and to your point earlier, you know, the bad rap for data centers is that we don't create enough jobs.
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But when you're dealing with a community this size, we create just the right amount.
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They don't want 10,000 jobs, right?
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They live in this small community because they want it to stay small, but they want it to be small and prosperous.
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Uh, so we bring just the right amount.
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If we can bring two or three hundred jobs, and it's just it's that town, and then it's a it's a commuting area, right?
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So people are used to driving 45 minutes and they'll live in another small town nearby.
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And so it lifts the whole area up um dramatically.
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And the thing that really hits home for people, and what's great is it's not just a story for us.
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We're telling the story of what's already happened because we've done this and uh we have lowered electricity bills for people in the in the area we've been operating for about four years now.
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We've lowered the electricity bill uh by about$38 million for the ratepayers over that time.
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How do you lower the electricity bill?
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There was already excess power, and then we utilize the infrastructure more, we pay the utility, the utility makes more money, they have to give it back.
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Uh, that's just the utility model where we're operating.
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And so we save, so hey, we save people on electricity.
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We pioneered closed loop liquid cooling.
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Why?
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Because I can use a lot of energy and electricity that exists in a farming community.
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They're not going to let me use the water, right?
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Like that that's their lifeblood, is water.
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So we we we basically said, look, we can't use water, so we don't use water.
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We use the same amount as a house would use.
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Um, then we we create jobs, but it's better than jobs.
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We we create a place where people can have a career, they can advance.
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These are not just like, hey, you you got a job at a food processing plant because you're doing agriculture, and this is where you're kind of stuck, and but at least it pays the best.
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Right now, we create a career that people can advance, they're proud of their job.
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And what we've seen is people that grew up in these small towns and they moved away because there was no job.
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They went to university, they moved and you know, got a job in Denver or some other city.
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We've had people that are moving back, they bring their kids back, they get to raise their kids in the same town, and then you know what really resonates is what they see for the future is not only do they get to raise their kids there, but as they grow and mature in this community, they have an opportunity for their kids to get jobs in that community and their grandkids to be near them and everyone to grow up in in the same area.
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So it's a complete change from for the fortunes of that community from where it was to what to what is the future now.
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And there's no opportunity like this for them.
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And and it's the leading edge of technology.
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So we're when I grew up, like we get we were our community was like the last to get the internet, right?
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I would go to my parents' house after I graduated college, I've been working a job.
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I go out and and still log into their AOL dial-up account in 2015, right?
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So we're like the last to get it.
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This is the first, the leading edge of technology created in these communities.
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It's it's really a boost.
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And then what that does is we do a good job, we get to do it again in another community.
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And then we have I get people to write letters to me and I have them show up at my office that are begging me to come to their community to do the same thing.
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And and I think this is where the future is in the data center industry, right?
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Does the community in Dallas, Texas want, you know, a hundredth data center?
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No.
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Uh, does Northern Virginia want a 500th data center?
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No.
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Uh they they don't want this, but these towns where it really creates something completely different and a future for them and a future for their kids and a future for their grandkids, like they get it and they want this infrastructure there and they understand the benefits.
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And so they're welcoming.
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And then we have a partnership, right?
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And we are, we really work hard to be good partners, hear what the problems are that we create.
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We create some problems, there's no doubt, especially in construction.
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Um, but as it operates, it's you know, it's a pretty smooth operation, creates the right amount of jobs.
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It's it's really, it's a as you can tell, I think it's a it's a big point of pride for me that we're able to do this in these locations.
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And then we get welcomed into more.
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And that that's the model of our company.
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Not only do we know how to do these things, but we create this partnership with communities, and then we get welcomed into new communities so we can do it again.
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Yeah, and is it the same in Europe?
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Have you seen the same in Europe from a uh community perspective?
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It's obviously a very different market, but have you seen the development?
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Because obviously bulk in itself develops in some quite remote locations.
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Are you seeing the similar?
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Yeah, 100%.
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And and uh same as like you know, Wes said, so when you built in these small communities, they all have histories.
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Like I worked in uh northern Sweden uh as well in the past.
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Like, you know, the major industry was steel, and uh, you know, Christian sat very close to you know oil and gas, like uh, you know, but obviously people want to learn you know new uh you know technologies, like this next generation uh jobs.
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So when you create opportunities like apprenticeship programs or internships, like bringing you know college grads like to data centers, you know, either during development stage or operational stage, you know, they learn they can become a fiber technician, they can become uh, you know, the facility office engineer or electrician, you know, plumber.
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Like, I mean, you introduce them like to uh you know a variety of opportunities.
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And I think it's beyond that uh that project only, right?
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So they can take that skill and they can grow.
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And um, you know, when I started data centers, like I didn't know everything, but you know, slowly uh, you know, you climb the letters and you learn more and more.
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So we want to provide the same opportunity to people, and and that's what they're looking for.
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So to answer your question, yeah, it's exactly uh the same.
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And and because they want to put uh their city on the map, right?
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So they want to know that they're open to like you know, these data center companies, like new technology, you know, coming in and developing new skills, like the kids can um you know grow their families, like you said, Wes, in in those towns.
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So I think, yeah, a lot of similarities to US.
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So it's interesting.
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Like one of the biggest things I'm getting from you guys is you're not just building digital infrastructure platforms, you're you're building legacies for the future.
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And I think that uh one of the most positive changes in this industry in recent years has been the fact that there are operators who are willing to go so far to engage with the community.
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It you know, speaking from your own perspective, what what can the industry do to kind of make sure that community engagement remains a priority?
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And what what advice would you offer?
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Personal advice.
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Yeah, I I I love the word that you you said there is a legacy.
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And you you you need to have that mindset.
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And it I I think this is super important.
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So we're we're in an industry where you know it's the hottest industry in the world, you know, at at the moment.
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And there's a huge amount of demand and there's a huge amount of opportunity.
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And so you'll have people that come into the industry and they're you know, they're focused on I can be in this industry and I can make a lot of money.
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And that's their focus.
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And how much money can I make and I can do it fast?
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And so then you you start to force things to happen that shouldn't happen, right?
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It's like, hey, I don't I don't care that I have this piece of land that's you know half a mile from a school.
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I can make a lot of money if I can just build it and get the permit, and I don't care the fight that I'm gonna be in.
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Uh and so you you we have to deal with that.
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And and the the way we think, which is back to the legacy, is how is it gonna impact this community, not just this year or next year, but a decade from now and two decades from now.
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And that's how we work with the community and how we think through uh what is gonna be the lasting impact?
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What is gonna be our legacy as a company?
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What are we gonna help with this community?
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We need to have this kind of thought, otherwise, you you get to do one project, you get to do it horribly, and then you're done.
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No one no one else is gonna want you there, right?
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This is this is a thought of how we improve these communities, how we be a great partner and how we build a legacy, not just for our company, but for that community as well, because each one has you know their own identity.
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And and to your point, that there's there's great pride in these communities, always is.
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And I and and I love that aspect.
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And they want to put their town on the map, right?
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They want their village on the map.
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Um, and so you're you're helping them do that.
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But you need we can't dictate everything.
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So we spend a lot of time.
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We're really good, our team is really good at spending a lot of time of listening when we go.
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So, like I said, every single one of these is different.
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What are their priorities?
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What are they looking for us to do?
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What do they not want us to do?
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Um, and so we just make sure that there's a lot of listening and intake and then work collaboratively with the community.
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Obviously, you know, we build our building the way we have to build our building.
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Um, and we need to operate it the way we operate it because we have SLAs and we have all of these things.
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Uh, but there's a lot of things that you can shape around what the priorities of that community are, but you need to listen to a lot of people, right?
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It can't be there's there's different priorities from different people inside of that.
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Um, so it's it is really, you know, how do we create this legacy and how do you have a long-term vision and you think about the future versus just like, what can I do today?
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What can I announce today?
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Uh, how do I make money really fast?
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Uh it it needs to be a lot more thought out than than just that and what the lasting lasting impact is.
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How about you, Selfie?
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Totally agree.
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I mean, the listening part I think is really important because every community they have different needs.
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But when it comes to advice to answer your question, I think I would look at it in two folds, right?
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So, I mean, first one, just look at the life cycle of development.
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I mean, especially in Europe, like the when it comes to you know, permitting zoning, environmental impact assessments, like there's a long time we we spent to prep the site, like ready for any kind of development, right?
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But during that period, like, you know, I think people need to look at like how much of a disturbance, like, you know, you create and and how can you uh bring that back like on other places in in the community, right?
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And as you develop your design, as you start getting into like construction, et cetera, it opens up other opportunities.
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Um, so if you um, you know, look at the past, like when we try to build uh things fast, like we try to bring like thousands of people, like you know, electricians, like plumbers there.
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So obviously it creates an economy.
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But right now, the industry demands faster builds, right?
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So we're moving more OSM, like the offsite manufacturing, like prefab solutions, like vertically integrated uh models.
00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:22.080
And sometimes it takes the jobs away from the locality, but there are ways of uh tackling this, right?
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:34.080
So, you know, your your offsite manufacturing strategy can be established in a way that maybe you you you take care of certain things like you know outside that community, or you create these assembly centers like locally, right?
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:39.919
So and then you can flat back things and and send them to there and then you know create that kind of fun opportunity.
00:16:40.159 --> 00:17:07.119
And um, and then the second part is uh I guess as you get close to um you know the operations uh you know side, not just um you know going and helping the community with but parks or you know, helping schools, uh as we said, like creating those apprenticeship programs and and um and internship programs, reaching out to college uh you know students ready to graduate, because I'm sure all of them are scared at the moment because of AI.
00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:13.519
So I mean when I read the white papers, I I'm scared, like, you know, what's gonna happen to our jobs, right?
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:33.200
So uh so I think um, you know, educating them, like sharing your your your um you know knowledge with them and and maybe shaping their career, even though they don't end up working in in your um you know facility, you may influence them in a way that they go to the right industry for the future and they will be ready for the the future with AI in our lives.
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.039
It's interesting to hear you say that, right?
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:42.880
Because uh Andy and I are involved in an initiative in the UK at the minute is kind of trying to champion kind of earlier engagement in terms of education.
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:50.880
There's a massive skill shortage, obviously, lots of kind of opportunity for people to build a brilliant career, to your point as well.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:18:00.640
Whereas do you think that uh engaging at college level you know obviously it's important, but do you think actually there's a better opportunity to engage earlier with schools?
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:02.720
Talk about kind of the role in the infrastructure.
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:16.640
So so the way the way we operate with this is uh one of the first things we do when we go into a community is we go to the technical schools, the vocational colleges um that are training for these skill sets.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.880
And we help actually set the curriculum and we put money to work there.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:25.599
So we'll we'll we'll invest money into these uh, I think into into these trade schools.
00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:28.880
And I think we in the Dakotas we're doing like six different schools.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:35.440
Um it's one of the first things we did in Louisiana uh because we we need that, right?
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:39.279
And this is where to to your point, you're trying to help kids go, okay.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.160
It used to be that I I wanted to be a coder, right?
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.200
That was the thing I was gonna do.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.640
Or I mean it's still thinking of doctors away, so those those types of careers.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.559
So you have that, but like we need kids to think about a different career path.
00:18:50.640 --> 00:19:04.319
And when you show them, hey, you could go through this program, you get an apprenticeship, and instead of four years, you're done in two years, uh, and you're gonna make$120,000 a year,$150,000 a year right out of your school.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:11.599
And there's really great job opportunities um to make a a great living, to create a career for yourself.
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:13.839
Like that becomes really appealing.
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:18.960
So that's that's the first place we go is we go right to those schools, help shape the curriculum.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:20.240
Here's what we need.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.799
Uh, here's the skill set so that the again, just it's this partnership.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.200
That one is one that we have to have.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:29.039
We we need those skill sets.
00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:35.119
We need to be able to scale this up, and we're doing it in these small places, so we need to help kind of create the workforce for ourselves.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:36.880
Uh, and that's that's one of the big bottlenecks.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.079
I think you all know in the industry that the labor force is a huge bottleneck.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.160
Um, so all of us have to solve that.
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.640
But that that's something that we focus on in a huge way.
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:45.039
Yeah.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:56.240
I I want to double-click on the curriculum part because uh I'm a civil engineer by degree, and and when I look at my education, and and I think it still happens to a degree, like it's so theoretical, right?
00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:02.960
And then you come into the real business world, and then you see like, okay, I need to develop on this side, I need to develop on that side.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:13.200
So I think what we can do is just reaching out to colleges and influencing their you know curriculum in a way that um you know the grads like come to the you know business world more ready.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.759
I mean, think about like mechanical engineering, right?
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:20.160
So it's um there's so many different paths you can follow as a mechanical engineer.
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:28.000
But now I'm looking at last uh three, four years with liquid cooling coming in, like there's so many interesting challenges like you know you're introducing, right?
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.400
So the the CFDs on the air side.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:39.279
So I mean, if you influence them in that fashion, you can create like this special program, like people might be ready for like mechanical engineering in data centers, like and and how that works.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.720
So I think it's uh it was spot-on comment on that side.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:49.039
So I think we're about to be invaded by lunch, so wrap this one up.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:58.240
But um obviously we could talk about community all day and everything, but from an event perspective, I don't know if you've been to data cloud before, where this might be your third, my third, but there you go.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:58.880
You've got everyone.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:05.680
But what's been your key highlight so far, both of you, and what are you looking forward to, and kind of what what's this event all about for yourselves?
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.279
Yeah, you want me to start?
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:15.680
Um, I think this is my sixth uh you know data cloud, and every year it amazes me, like the number of people, the type of uh people.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.119
We were talking about it before uh you know start recording.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:23.839
I think the full pyramid is here, and uh and I see more and more US presence.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.000
Like I think it's the location is very attractive.
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:27.359
That is, that is.
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:31.759
Um, but I mean seeing finance community, like the full supply chain.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:40.799
So it amazes me every year, like it gets better and better, and and um you know it's a great place to to connect with uh you know colleagues and build partnerships.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.680
So uh the highlights there is just the scale.
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:53.759
The scale is just amazing and and uh very heading, and also different types of supply chain coming in, like second, third tier, like they're trying to get into the data center world.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:01.839
So uh they want to learn, and um, and obviously a lot of people coming in on on the um the events, like speaking, sharing their experiences.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:07.440
So I mean this is really uh a good uh event for the the community, and this is the one that I don't miss.
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:13.599
Like there's so many of them, as you know, and but this is definitely the one that uh you know I never miss and I enjoy.
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.680
So it's same so far, very busy.
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:20.559
You keep running between uh you know meetings and and events, but uh, really enjoy.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:25.759
So I mean this is this is the premier global event, right?
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.720
This is Europe, Asia, US, uh everyone here's Africa is here.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:43.440
So it's great to have the full data center community because you get to see everything that's going on around the globe, full stack, as you mentioned, all all the suppliers all the way through the finance, um, the financing of the facilities.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:49.680
So like this is the global event, and you get to hear a lot of you know interesting perspectives and ideas.
00:22:49.839 --> 00:23:00.640
Um plus I get a meet with you know all of my suppliers and my customers and companies, people that I hope are gonna be customers, it's probably the most important meetings for me.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.079
Um so it's it's just it's the premier global event.
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:05.279
So I love being at this.
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:09.839
And it has versus even you know the two years ago that I was here, it's just insane.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:11.599
Yeah, I think every every year it gets bigger.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:24.160
I always say it gives you a great insight into like the the evolution of the industry because it you you you live and breathe this industry and you don't really see what's happening, but every year you come back to the same place and you think there's a few more thousand people, yeah, a few more hundred vendors, you know, new faces.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.640
It's my it's my trying to get hotel rooms every year.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:27.359
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:29.920
And then we book Leg Martinet events.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.000
So thanks you both for coming on.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:34.480
The community's really important to the industry, I think.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:36.000
So I appreciate you both sharing your story.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.240
You're doing some great things, both your companies are doing some great things.
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:39.039
So thanks for your time.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.680
Go you can now go and enjoy the uh the French sunshine.
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:42.079
Thanks.
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.079
Thanks for appreciating it.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.799
That's it for this episode of the Inside Data Centre Podcast.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:47.920
Thanks for tuning in.
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:56.000
This show is brought to you by Data X and Data Exec, the recruitment partners powering global talent across the data centre and digital infrastructure world.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.079
If you enjoyed today's conversations, don't forget to follow, like and subscribe.
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.720
It really helps us grow the podcast community.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:08.319
Stay tuned for more stories, insights, and conversations with the people shaping the future of our industry.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.000
The data centre industry is moving faster than ever, and behind the scenes some seriously smart people are making it all happen.
00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:12.960
Welcome to the Inside Data Centre Podcast, where we dive into the stories, insights, and innovations driving real change across the industry.
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:19.839
From hyperscale campuses to game-changing technologies, we're talking to the people shaping the future of digital infrastructure.
00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:25.760
Whether you live and breathe data centers or just want to understand what's powering our connected world, you're in the right place.
00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:27.519
Welcome to Inside Data Centre Podcast.
00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:32.799
We're back on the terrace, uh the global commissioning networking terrace, as we've been told to say, um, in Cannes.
00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:35.600
Really looking forward to this episode because we have already talked.
00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:39.039
We've done this is our episode five, I think we've recorded four or five.
00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:41.759
Communities coming up on every single conversation.
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.079
Everyone you speak to is talking about the challenges around community.
00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:45.840
So I really want to dig into that one.
00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:49.679
Delighted to be joined by Ilke from Bulk and Wes from Applied Digital.
00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:51.119
We'll let you guys introduce yourselves.
00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:52.479
So, Ilka, do you want to start?
00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:53.119
Thanks.
00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:54.719
Thanks for the invite, uh Andy.
00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:55.840
So Ilka Esner.
00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:02.880
So I'm leading uh design and uh procurement uh for bulk infrastructure, uh, you know, based out of Norway.
00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:05.920
Um uh Wes Cummins, thanks for having me.
00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:11.200
I'm um founder CEO of Applied Digital, which build large-scale infrastructure in the US.
00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:14.000
Your market is brilliant as well, as I always say.
00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:15.840
But the docuseries is out now.
00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:16.239
Yeah.
00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:18.239
So I'll I'll give the plug.
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:21.120
It's called Behind the Build.
00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:29.840
Uh we've released two episodes, kind of a Netflix style, you know, documentary on no glossing over what actually happens.
00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:35.359
It's you can see what happens in these communities, these small towns, as we go to build a big infrastructure project.
00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:36.560
So highly recommend.
00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:37.200
No, 100%.
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:38.480
And it's exactly what the industry needs.
00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.480
That's why I wanted to plug it myself as well.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:45.040
But um community, it's I say it comes up in every conversation now.
00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:50.719
Like when you're developing or you're entering a region, is it now a key factor in your development?
00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:56.159
So when you're looking to build in a region, is community like at the heart of what this industry does now?
00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:56.799
Uka?
00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:58.000
Yeah, no, 100%.
00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:18.560
And um look, I was uh you know lucky enough like to spend my whole career on data center uh you know, built started in the US, work with uh, you know, uh big companies, and um, and when I see the the change from like 20 years ago when I started and today, it's absolutely uh a big factor right now.
00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:29.680
So I mean if you don't show that you're returning um, you know, the favor to the community, creating that circular economy, and I don't think like you can build a sustainable business.
00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:32.719
So especially like constraints around resources.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.719
I mean, starting with uh, you know, with energy or or water.
00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:43.919
Um, I mean, these communities like Ruzu looking for um, you know, the the return of the resources that we're using there.
00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:48.400
So uh, and unfortunately data centers, they're not like you know other industries, right?
00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:53.039
So we don't create like thousands of jobs like you know once we build our buildings.
00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:58.080
But I think there are so many different ways like to um to show the value, right?
00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:04.080
So either community outreach or creating opportunities, uh, you know, job opportunities locally.
00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:16.159
I'm on the development side, not on the operation side, uh, but you can just you know establish your strategy in a way that the local community really benefits from you know years of development.
00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:24.479
So even though you bring like you know your international supply chain, I think there's so many ways to um to show the value to the local community.
00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:33.280
And once you uh hit that and and I think you get the support you know behind you, and then you can you can build a sustainable business in that uh locality.
00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:42.479
So yeah, Wes, I know you've done some cool stuff in North Dakota from a community perspective, which is really shaped that community to become part of the development.
00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:42.960
Yeah.
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:51.280
So so for us, it it's obviously you need to you know know what you're doing from a data center build perspective.
00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:55.759
So we you know, the first for us was figuring this industry out.
00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:01.439
It was brand new, it's been brand new for everyone, not data center, but large scale, high power density.
00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:05.199
Uh so we put all the people in place to to figure that part of it out.
00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:11.199
But then the the way we approach the market is you know, where did these fit best?
00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:12.960
And we're looking for power.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:18.399
Uh, and then kind of my background, which gives me a uh a huge amount of pride in what we do.
00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:22.399
So I I grew up in a in a small town that was uh uh 200 people.
00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:26.399
I grew up on a potato farm in Idaho, so it's really stereotypical, actually.
00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:31.439
Uh so um, but you know, I watched what happened to the community I grew up in.
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And what happened is, you know, family farming has largely disappeared, uh, at least in the US, um, but but in a lot of places.
00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.399
And so these communities get pretty decimated from what they used to be.
00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:47.680
So it goes to commercial farming, uh, a lot fewer people, a lot more um automation.
00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:51.680
And so these communities have just been slowly dying for decades.
00:04:52.160 --> 00:05:02.399
And so we've we're able to find the the ones that you know have the ingredients that we need, but we go to these communities uh that really need some economic boost.
00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:06.399
And it's it's not just can we uh enhance the community a little bit?
00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:10.720
It's a complete game change for that community.
00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:13.680
So we're in Ellendale, North Dakota is 1100 people.
00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.839
We're in Harwood, North Dakota, it's 800 people.
00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.680
Now we're in Louisiana, we're in Boise, Louisiana, 600 people.
00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:25.360
Um uh we're in another town in North Dakota, it's uh 600 or 400 people.
00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:30.000
And then so what we bring is really community first.
00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:35.040
And so we come in and we build, you're gonna really enhance the tax base um for them.
00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:46.480
So we we were able to walk in and say, how does you know hundreds of millions of dollars in tax and economic um you know production sound over over a 20 or 25 year period?
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:48.079
It's amazing for these communities.
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They get to fix their fresh water, they get to fix their sewer, they get to fix their roads.
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Would you like to have the wealthiest school district in the state almost overnight?
00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:56.240
Right.
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Um and then the the things that really hit home is we bring high-paying technical jobs and we train locally for those.
00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.759
So we can get 80% of the workforce.
00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:12.879
And and to your point earlier, you know, the bad rap for data centers is that we don't create enough jobs.
00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.639
But when you're dealing with a community this size, we create just the right amount.
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.480
They don't want 10,000 jobs, right?
00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:23.519
They live in this small community because they want it to stay small, but they want it to be small and prosperous.
00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:25.279
Uh, so we bring just the right amount.
00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:31.040
If we can bring two or three hundred jobs, and it's just it's that town, and then it's a it's a commuting area, right?
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:34.800
So people are used to driving 45 minutes and they'll live in another small town nearby.
00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:38.319
And so it lifts the whole area up um dramatically.
00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:43.759
And the thing that really hits home for people, and what's great is it's not just a story for us.
00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:54.560
We're telling the story of what's already happened because we've done this and uh we have lowered electricity bills for people in the in the area we've been operating for about four years now.
00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:59.839
We've lowered the electricity bill uh by about$38 million for the ratepayers over that time.
00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:01.360
How do you lower the electricity bill?
00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:08.800
There was already excess power, and then we utilize the infrastructure more, we pay the utility, the utility makes more money, they have to give it back.
00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.759
Uh, that's just the utility model where we're operating.
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.279
And so we save, so hey, we save people on electricity.
00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.160
We pioneered closed loop liquid cooling.
00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:18.560
Why?
00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:22.959
Because I can use a lot of energy and electricity that exists in a farming community.
00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:25.040
They're not going to let me use the water, right?
00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:26.800
Like that that's their lifeblood, is water.
00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:29.600
So we we we basically said, look, we can't use water, so we don't use water.
00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:31.279
We use the same amount as a house would use.
00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:36.000
Um, then we we create jobs, but it's better than jobs.
00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:39.920
We we create a place where people can have a career, they can advance.
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:48.079
These are not just like, hey, you you got a job at a food processing plant because you're doing agriculture, and this is where you're kind of stuck, and but at least it pays the best.
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:52.000
Right now, we create a career that people can advance, they're proud of their job.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:57.759
And what we've seen is people that grew up in these small towns and they moved away because there was no job.
00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:02.240
They went to university, they moved and you know, got a job in Denver or some other city.
00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:23.519
We've had people that are moving back, they bring their kids back, they get to raise their kids in the same town, and then you know what really resonates is what they see for the future is not only do they get to raise their kids there, but as they grow and mature in this community, they have an opportunity for their kids to get jobs in that community and their grandkids to be near them and everyone to grow up in in the same area.
00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:31.600
So it's a complete change from for the fortunes of that community from where it was to what to what is the future now.
00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.159
And there's no opportunity like this for them.
00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:36.799
And and it's the leading edge of technology.
00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:42.559
So we're when I grew up, like we get we were our community was like the last to get the internet, right?
00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.840
I would go to my parents' house after I graduated college, I've been working a job.
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.720
I go out and and still log into their AOL dial-up account in 2015, right?
00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:52.080
So we're like the last to get it.
00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:56.720
This is the first, the leading edge of technology created in these communities.
00:08:57.039 --> 00:08:58.159
It's it's really a boost.
00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:03.200
And then what that does is we do a good job, we get to do it again in another community.
00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:11.519
And then we have I get people to write letters to me and I have them show up at my office that are begging me to come to their community to do the same thing.
00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.960
And and I think this is where the future is in the data center industry, right?
00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:20.159
Does the community in Dallas, Texas want, you know, a hundredth data center?
00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:20.559
No.
00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:23.759
Uh, does Northern Virginia want a 500th data center?
00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:24.159
No.
00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:37.519
Uh they they don't want this, but these towns where it really creates something completely different and a future for them and a future for their kids and a future for their grandkids, like they get it and they want this infrastructure there and they understand the benefits.
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:38.799
And so they're welcoming.
00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:40.559
And then we have a partnership, right?
00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:45.120
And we are, we really work hard to be good partners, hear what the problems are that we create.
00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.080
We create some problems, there's no doubt, especially in construction.
00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:53.120
Um, but as it operates, it's you know, it's a pretty smooth operation, creates the right amount of jobs.
00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:59.360
It's it's really, it's a as you can tell, I think it's a it's a big point of pride for me that we're able to do this in these locations.
00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:00.960
And then we get welcomed into more.
00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:02.639
And that that's the model of our company.
00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:09.039
Not only do we know how to do these things, but we create this partnership with communities, and then we get welcomed into new communities so we can do it again.
00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:10.399
Yeah, and is it the same in Europe?
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:13.600
Have you seen the same in Europe from a uh community perspective?
00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.279
It's obviously a very different market, but have you seen the development?
00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:20.879
Because obviously bulk in itself develops in some quite remote locations.
00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:22.000
Are you seeing the similar?
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:22.960
Yeah, 100%.
00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:28.879
And and uh same as like you know, Wes said, so when you built in these small communities, they all have histories.
00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:32.159
Like I worked in uh northern Sweden uh as well in the past.
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:47.200
Like, you know, the major industry was steel, and uh, you know, Christian sat very close to you know oil and gas, like uh, you know, but obviously people want to learn you know new uh you know technologies, like this next generation uh jobs.
00:10:47.440 --> 00:11:07.759
So when you create opportunities like apprenticeship programs or internships, like bringing you know college grads like to data centers, you know, either during development stage or operational stage, you know, they learn they can become a fiber technician, they can become uh, you know, the facility office engineer or electrician, you know, plumber.
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.919
Like, I mean, you introduce them like to uh you know a variety of opportunities.
00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:16.000
And I think it's beyond that uh that project only, right?
00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.480
So they can take that skill and they can grow.
00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:27.120
And um, you know, when I started data centers, like I didn't know everything, but you know, slowly uh, you know, you climb the letters and you learn more and more.
00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:31.279
So we want to provide the same opportunity to people, and and that's what they're looking for.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.639
So to answer your question, yeah, it's exactly uh the same.
00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:38.720
And and because they want to put uh their city on the map, right?
00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:51.519
So they want to know that they're open to like you know, these data center companies, like new technology, you know, coming in and developing new skills, like the kids can um you know grow their families, like you said, Wes, in in those towns.
00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.240
So I think, yeah, a lot of similarities to US.
00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:55.600
So it's interesting.
00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:02.799
Like one of the biggest things I'm getting from you guys is you're not just building digital infrastructure platforms, you're you're building legacies for the future.
00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:12.799
And I think that uh one of the most positive changes in this industry in recent years has been the fact that there are operators who are willing to go so far to engage with the community.
00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:21.360
It you know, speaking from your own perspective, what what can the industry do to kind of make sure that community engagement remains a priority?
00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.039
And what what advice would you offer?
00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:23.919
Personal advice.
00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.919
Yeah, I I I love the word that you you said there is a legacy.
00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.120
And you you you need to have that mindset.
00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.759
And it I I think this is super important.
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:38.960
So we're we're in an industry where you know it's the hottest industry in the world, you know, at at the moment.
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:42.799
And there's a huge amount of demand and there's a huge amount of opportunity.
00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:49.759
And so you'll have people that come into the industry and they're you know, they're focused on I can be in this industry and I can make a lot of money.
00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.000
And that's their focus.
00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:54.480
And how much money can I make and I can do it fast?
00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:58.960
And so then you you start to force things to happen that shouldn't happen, right?
00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:05.360
It's like, hey, I don't I don't care that I have this piece of land that's you know half a mile from a school.
00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:10.320
I can make a lot of money if I can just build it and get the permit, and I don't care the fight that I'm gonna be in.
00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.039
Uh and so you you we have to deal with that.
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:22.480
And and the the way we think, which is back to the legacy, is how is it gonna impact this community, not just this year or next year, but a decade from now and two decades from now.
00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:28.080
And that's how we work with the community and how we think through uh what is gonna be the lasting impact?
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.840
What is gonna be our legacy as a company?
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:31.519
What are we gonna help with this community?
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:38.080
We need to have this kind of thought, otherwise, you you get to do one project, you get to do it horribly, and then you're done.
00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.080
No one no one else is gonna want you there, right?
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:52.559
This is this is a thought of how we improve these communities, how we be a great partner and how we build a legacy, not just for our company, but for that community as well, because each one has you know their own identity.
00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:58.000
And and to your point, that there's there's great pride in these communities, always is.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:59.919
And I and and I love that aspect.
00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:01.759
And they want to put their town on the map, right?
00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:03.279
They want their village on the map.
00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:05.600
Um, and so you're you're helping them do that.
00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.240
But you need we can't dictate everything.
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:09.440
So we spend a lot of time.
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:14.080
We're really good, our team is really good at spending a lot of time of listening when we go.
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:16.480
So, like I said, every single one of these is different.
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:17.600
What are their priorities?
00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:19.440
What are they looking for us to do?
00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:21.200
What do they not want us to do?
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:27.200
Um, and so we just make sure that there's a lot of listening and intake and then work collaboratively with the community.
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.639
Obviously, you know, we build our building the way we have to build our building.
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.200
Um, and we need to operate it the way we operate it because we have SLAs and we have all of these things.
00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:41.200
Uh, but there's a lot of things that you can shape around what the priorities of that community are, but you need to listen to a lot of people, right?
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:44.879
It can't be there's there's different priorities from different people inside of that.
00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:54.320
Um, so it's it is really, you know, how do we create this legacy and how do you have a long-term vision and you think about the future versus just like, what can I do today?
00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:55.679
What can I announce today?
00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.919
Uh, how do I make money really fast?
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:05.200
Uh it it needs to be a lot more thought out than than just that and what the lasting lasting impact is.
00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:06.799
How about you, Selfie?
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:08.000
Totally agree.
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:12.320
I mean, the listening part I think is really important because every community they have different needs.
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:16.960
But when it comes to advice to answer your question, I think I would look at it in two folds, right?
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:20.639
So, I mean, first one, just look at the life cycle of development.
00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:32.320
I mean, especially in Europe, like the when it comes to you know, permitting zoning, environmental impact assessments, like there's a long time we we spent to prep the site, like ready for any kind of development, right?
00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:44.399
But during that period, like, you know, I think people need to look at like how much of a disturbance, like, you know, you create and and how can you uh bring that back like on other places in in the community, right?
00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:51.600
And as you develop your design, as you start getting into like construction, et cetera, it opens up other opportunities.
00:15:51.759 --> 00:16:03.600
Um, so if you um, you know, look at the past, like when we try to build uh things fast, like we try to bring like thousands of people, like you know, electricians, like plumbers there.
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:05.279
So obviously it creates an economy.
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.480
But right now, the industry demands faster builds, right?
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:15.679
So we're moving more OSM, like the offsite manufacturing, like prefab solutions, like vertically integrated uh models.
00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:22.080
And sometimes it takes the jobs away from the locality, but there are ways of uh tackling this, right?
00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:34.080
So, you know, your your offsite manufacturing strategy can be established in a way that maybe you you you take care of certain things like you know outside that community, or you create these assembly centers like locally, right?
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:39.919
So and then you can flat back things and and send them to there and then you know create that kind of fun opportunity.
00:16:40.159 --> 00:17:07.119
And um, and then the second part is uh I guess as you get close to um you know the operations uh you know side, not just um you know going and helping the community with but parks or you know, helping schools, uh as we said, like creating those apprenticeship programs and and um and internship programs, reaching out to college uh you know students ready to graduate, because I'm sure all of them are scared at the moment because of AI.
00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:13.519
So I mean when I read the white papers, I I'm scared, like, you know, what's gonna happen to our jobs, right?
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:33.200
So uh so I think um, you know, educating them, like sharing your your your um you know knowledge with them and and maybe shaping their career, even though they don't end up working in in your um you know facility, you may influence them in a way that they go to the right industry for the future and they will be ready for the the future with AI in our lives.
00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.039
It's interesting to hear you say that, right?
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:42.880
Because uh Andy and I are involved in an initiative in the UK at the minute is kind of trying to champion kind of earlier engagement in terms of education.
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:50.880
There's a massive skill shortage, obviously, lots of kind of opportunity for people to build a brilliant career, to your point as well.
00:17:51.039 --> 00:18:00.640
Whereas do you think that uh engaging at college level you know obviously it's important, but do you think actually there's a better opportunity to engage earlier with schools?
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:02.720
Talk about kind of the role in the infrastructure.
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:16.640
So so the way the way we operate with this is uh one of the first things we do when we go into a community is we go to the technical schools, the vocational colleges um that are training for these skill sets.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.880
And we help actually set the curriculum and we put money to work there.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:25.599
So we'll we'll we'll invest money into these uh, I think into into these trade schools.
00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:28.880
And I think we in the Dakotas we're doing like six different schools.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:35.440
Um it's one of the first things we did in Louisiana uh because we we need that, right?
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:39.279
And this is where to to your point, you're trying to help kids go, okay.
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.160
It used to be that I I wanted to be a coder, right?
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.200
That was the thing I was gonna do.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.640
Or I mean it's still thinking of doctors away, so those those types of careers.
00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:50.559
So you have that, but like we need kids to think about a different career path.
00:18:50.640 --> 00:19:04.319
And when you show them, hey, you could go through this program, you get an apprenticeship, and instead of four years, you're done in two years, uh, and you're gonna make$120,000 a year,$150,000 a year right out of your school.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:11.599
And there's really great job opportunities um to make a a great living, to create a career for yourself.
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:13.839
Like that becomes really appealing.
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:18.960
So that's that's the first place we go is we go right to those schools, help shape the curriculum.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:20.240
Here's what we need.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:24.799
Uh, here's the skill set so that the again, just it's this partnership.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.200
That one is one that we have to have.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:29.039
We we need those skill sets.
00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:35.119
We need to be able to scale this up, and we're doing it in these small places, so we need to help kind of create the workforce for ourselves.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:36.880
Uh, and that's that's one of the big bottlenecks.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.079
I think you all know in the industry that the labor force is a huge bottleneck.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.160
Um, so all of us have to solve that.
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.640
But that that's something that we focus on in a huge way.
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:45.039
Yeah.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:56.240
I I want to double-click on the curriculum part because uh I'm a civil engineer by degree, and and when I look at my education, and and I think it still happens to a degree, like it's so theoretical, right?
00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:02.960
And then you come into the real business world, and then you see like, okay, I need to develop on this side, I need to develop on that side.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:13.200
So I think what we can do is just reaching out to colleges and influencing their you know curriculum in a way that um you know the grads like come to the you know business world more ready.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.759
I mean, think about like mechanical engineering, right?
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:20.160
So it's um there's so many different paths you can follow as a mechanical engineer.
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:28.000
But now I'm looking at last uh three, four years with liquid cooling coming in, like there's so many interesting challenges like you know you're introducing, right?
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.400
So the the CFDs on the air side.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:39.279
So I mean, if you influence them in that fashion, you can create like this special program, like people might be ready for like mechanical engineering in data centers, like and and how that works.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.720
So I think it's uh it was spot-on comment on that side.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:49.039
So I think we're about to be invaded by lunch, so wrap this one up.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:58.240
But um obviously we could talk about community all day and everything, but from an event perspective, I don't know if you've been to data cloud before, where this might be your third, my third, but there you go.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:58.880
You've got everyone.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:05.680
But what's been your key highlight so far, both of you, and what are you looking forward to, and kind of what what's this event all about for yourselves?
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.279
Yeah, you want me to start?
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:15.680
Um, I think this is my sixth uh you know data cloud, and every year it amazes me, like the number of people, the type of uh people.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.119
We were talking about it before uh you know start recording.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:23.839
I think the full pyramid is here, and uh and I see more and more US presence.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.000
Like I think it's the location is very attractive.
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:27.359
That is, that is.
00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:31.759
Um, but I mean seeing finance community, like the full supply chain.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:40.799
So it amazes me every year, like it gets better and better, and and um you know it's a great place to to connect with uh you know colleagues and build partnerships.
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:43.680
So uh the highlights there is just the scale.
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:53.759
The scale is just amazing and and uh very heading, and also different types of supply chain coming in, like second, third tier, like they're trying to get into the data center world.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:01.839
So uh they want to learn, and um, and obviously a lot of people coming in on on the um the events, like speaking, sharing their experiences.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:07.440
So I mean this is really uh a good uh event for the the community, and this is the one that I don't miss.
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:13.599
Like there's so many of them, as you know, and but this is definitely the one that uh you know I never miss and I enjoy.
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.680
So it's same so far, very busy.
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:20.559
You keep running between uh you know meetings and and events, but uh, really enjoy.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:25.759
So I mean this is this is the premier global event, right?
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.720
This is Europe, Asia, US, uh everyone here's Africa is here.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:43.440
So it's great to have the full data center community because you get to see everything that's going on around the globe, full stack, as you mentioned, all all the suppliers all the way through the finance, um, the financing of the facilities.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:49.680
So like this is the global event, and you get to hear a lot of you know interesting perspectives and ideas.
00:22:49.839 --> 00:23:00.640
Um plus I get a meet with you know all of my suppliers and my customers and companies, people that I hope are gonna be customers, it's probably the most important meetings for me.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.079
Um so it's it's just it's the premier global event.
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:05.279
So I love being at this.
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:09.839
And it has versus even you know the two years ago that I was here, it's just insane.
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:11.599
Yeah, I think every every year it gets bigger.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:24.160
I always say it gives you a great insight into like the the evolution of the industry because it you you you live and breathe this industry and you don't really see what's happening, but every year you come back to the same place and you think there's a few more thousand people, yeah, a few more hundred vendors, you know, new faces.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.640
It's my it's my trying to get hotel rooms every year.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:27.359
Yeah, exactly.
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:28.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:29.920
And then we book Leg Martinet events.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.000
So thanks you both for coming on.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:34.480
The community's really important to the industry, I think.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:36.000
So I appreciate you both sharing your story.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.240
You're doing some great things, both your companies are doing some great things.
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:39.039
So thanks for your time.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.680
Go you can now go and enjoy the uh the French sunshine.
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:42.079
Thanks.
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:44.079
Thanks for appreciating it.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.799
That's it for this episode of the Inside Data Centre Podcast.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:47.920
Thanks for tuning in.
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:56.000
This show is brought to you by Data X and Data Exec, the recruitment partners powering global talent across the data centre and digital infrastructure world.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.079
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