WEBVTT
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.359
Kevin: Good to see you.
00:00:00.359 --> 00:00:01.679
Patrick, welcome to the show.
00:00:02.489 --> 00:00:02.729
Patrick: Thank
00:00:02.729 --> 00:00:02.789
Kevin: you.
00:00:02.789 --> 00:00:06.029
As you probably, as you probably heard
us just teeing up, we're excited to
00:00:06.029 --> 00:00:09.989
talk with you about, um, what y'all
up to it Withings, uh, the access
00:00:09.989 --> 00:00:12.719
model in particular, how you're
thinking about the opportunity there.
00:00:12.779 --> 00:00:14.039
So maybe let's start with that.
00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:19.289
I'd be curious as one of the, the
hundred 50th, 50 ish participants
00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:22.170
in the model, how are you
thinking about the opportunity?
00:00:22.170 --> 00:00:23.609
What gets you excited about the model?
00:00:23.609 --> 00:00:24.929
What led you guys to apply?
00:00:26.729 --> 00:00:29.849
Patrick: You know, I, um, one,
we're very excited and thank you
00:00:29.849 --> 00:00:32.909
Martin and Kevin, uh, for having
us on and talking about access.
00:00:32.939 --> 00:00:37.409
Um, look, I think access is like a
big moment for digital health and
00:00:37.409 --> 00:00:38.670
you guys spoke about it very well.
00:00:38.670 --> 00:00:41.969
Like, why hasn't digital
health come more to the table?
00:00:42.659 --> 00:00:45.839
Maybe like the role of the device is
like really important here, but the
00:00:45.839 --> 00:00:49.949
more that we got into the weeds of
access, the more we spoke with Jacob
00:00:49.949 --> 00:00:54.509
and company at CMMI, the more we were
like, actually this is a great model
00:00:54.509 --> 00:00:59.909
for a device company and all of our
exper expertise and delivering care and
00:00:59.909 --> 00:01:02.099
enabling care and the Medicare population.
00:01:02.729 --> 00:01:09.599
Um, and you know, what we think about it
is, look, the hardest part in all of this
00:01:09.629 --> 00:01:11.639
is getting a patient to use a device.
00:01:11.669 --> 00:01:15.119
You know, I think a lot about, like
the payment is fully contingent
00:01:15.149 --> 00:01:18.869
on a patient using a device for
the baselining, for the quarterly
00:01:18.869 --> 00:01:20.699
payment for the end of year payment.
00:01:21.269 --> 00:01:22.949
The device is core to all of this.
00:01:23.489 --> 00:01:28.469
And, um, and we also know that patients
love using our devices and that blend of
00:01:28.469 --> 00:01:33.239
like, consumer plus we have huge amount
of healthcare partnerships with ACOs,
00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:35.609
health systems, getting data back to PCPs.
00:01:36.179 --> 00:01:39.059
I could talk endlessly about it,
but we felt more and more that the
00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:43.500
people who were gonna succeed in this
model or those who have that consumer
00:01:43.500 --> 00:01:48.119
backbone, but also have the right
pipes into the healthcare system to
00:01:48.119 --> 00:01:51.569
have that coordinated collaborative
care approach for the patient.
00:01:53.099 --> 00:01:56.129
Martin: The main thing we've heard
from folks who are not participating
00:01:56.129 --> 00:01:58.589
is some complaints about the rates.
00:01:58.769 --> 00:02:02.069
Obviously, we're not looking for you
to get into your secret sauce here.
00:02:02.069 --> 00:02:02.159
Yeah.
00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:06.239
On, on how you did the math, but
curious for your high level reflections
00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:10.500
on how you interpreted the rates,
what you're sort of seeing as the
00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:14.459
opportunity here and how you're
thinking about, you know, leveraging
00:02:14.459 --> 00:02:16.709
AI to help make this stuff work.
00:02:18.269 --> 00:02:22.739
Patrick: Yeah, so the rates as they are
today are sustainable for Withings, but
00:02:22.769 --> 00:02:26.849
Withings we're kind of, and other device
companies were kind of unique because we
00:02:26.849 --> 00:02:33.209
own the main cost structure and this care,
which is the hardware required, uh, to
00:02:33.209 --> 00:02:35.309
be able to manage the patient remotely.
00:02:36.029 --> 00:02:38.549
You know, the way I think about it,
and you guys probably think about
00:02:38.549 --> 00:02:42.179
it the same way, but this is a
pilot and you know, we're coming in
00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:44.099
the first year, the first cohort.
00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:49.349
I think a safe bet is that this is going
to evolve as time goes along as well.
00:02:49.739 --> 00:02:52.889
So like, as the rates are today,
we're very happy with them.
00:02:53.234 --> 00:02:57.854
Uh, we're looking at a sustainable
business in access alone, but we're
00:02:57.854 --> 00:03:02.054
also really thinking about, hey, this
is the star of a pilot with CMMI.
00:03:02.264 --> 00:03:04.844
This is going to evolve quite rapidly.
00:03:05.204 --> 00:03:08.684
You know, I, you know, we were
talking about, um, we we're all
00:03:08.684 --> 00:03:10.724
rooting for this as taxpayers, right?
00:03:10.724 --> 00:03:11.384
For this to succeed.
00:03:11.384 --> 00:03:15.794
You guys were opening up with that
today, I think about MSSP, you
00:03:15.794 --> 00:03:20.744
know, like in 2014, you know, PCPs
were saying, we can't do this.
00:03:20.744 --> 00:03:22.214
Like, this is too low of a rate.
00:03:22.214 --> 00:03:24.134
We're not gonna, it's not gonna work out.
00:03:24.974 --> 00:03:28.844
And you fast forward a little bit and
you had these insurgent models, right?
00:03:28.844 --> 00:03:34.124
You had these enablers pop up because
they had the core technology of
00:03:34.124 --> 00:03:38.264
like pop health analytics, really
robust to enable that payment,
00:03:38.264 --> 00:03:40.604
enable success in the MSSP program.
00:03:41.114 --> 00:03:46.424
I think access is kind of the same way
where the incumbents, you know, this
00:03:46.424 --> 00:03:50.894
is difficult in the status quo, but
we're gonna have this insurgency of.
00:03:51.344 --> 00:03:54.944
Companies who have the right technology
in place, who can build for it.
00:03:55.394 --> 00:03:58.694
Um, and I think this will be
a very successful program with
00:03:58.694 --> 00:03:59.774
the right people at the table.
00:04:01.424 --> 00:04:04.214
Kevin: Patrick, I think most of
us think of Withings as connected
00:04:04.214 --> 00:04:07.394
device company, manufacturer
scales and blood pressure cuffs.
00:04:07.454 --> 00:04:10.274
Uh, people use them in their
homes to be part of this program.
00:04:10.274 --> 00:04:13.484
I'd be curious, are you
expanding scope of Withings?
00:04:13.484 --> 00:04:16.514
Like there's been conversations about
becoming Medicare provider, part B
00:04:16.514 --> 00:04:18.164
provider to participate in the program.
00:04:18.585 --> 00:04:22.005
What have you had to build on top of kind
of the core connected device offering
00:04:22.005 --> 00:04:25.454
for access in particular and how you're
thinking about that moving forward?
00:04:26.189 --> 00:04:28.949
Patrick: Yeah, so we are a
Medicare Part B provider today.
00:04:29.249 --> 00:04:35.309
I think of it as, you know, one, it's a
natural evolution of what we do every day.
00:04:35.309 --> 00:04:38.669
So with thing is, I mean, we have
15 million users around the world.
00:04:38.669 --> 00:04:40.949
Kevin, I know you're,
you're one of them as well.
00:04:41.249 --> 00:04:44.879
We have a medic, a million medical
patients being monitored today, anywhere
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.509
from a million to a million and a half on
a given day with our healthcare partners.
00:04:48.689 --> 00:04:51.659
Like we know what works, um,
in managing hypertension.
00:04:51.659 --> 00:04:53.819
We know what works in
managing obesity, et cetera.
00:04:54.179 --> 00:04:59.069
Uh, so we have formed, um, you know,
our Part B, uh, medical group and what
00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:02.189
we're building out, and we'll announce
our clinical leadership as well.
00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:04.229
But what we're building out is a.
00:05:04.549 --> 00:05:07.339
A care model that's focused on
being this new layer of care.
00:05:07.489 --> 00:05:10.159
And this is where I spend a lot of
my time, Kevin and Martin, thinking
00:05:10.159 --> 00:05:15.589
about with our a CO partners, is
where does our care begin and where
00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:17.329
do we bring it back to you guys?
00:05:17.329 --> 00:05:21.079
And that, that's why I'm kind of
urging the full access cohort is,
00:05:21.379 --> 00:05:23.299
Hey, don't go at it alone guys.
00:05:23.299 --> 00:05:28.399
Because if, if we, if participants
start going at it alone, we're
00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:32.029
going to create friction with the
ACOs, with the health systems.
00:05:32.029 --> 00:05:34.039
And I think that's how the pilot fails.
00:05:34.489 --> 00:05:39.709
I'm like really urging participants to
really think about how you integrate
00:05:39.709 --> 00:05:43.429
back, how you coordinate back with
the ACOs, with the health systems.
00:05:44.539 --> 00:05:46.579
Martin: I, I think that's one
of the things that I'm most
00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:50.929
fascinated by is what, you know,
how ACOs are thinking about this.
00:05:50.929 --> 00:05:50.989
Yeah.
00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:54.349
How those conversations
with ACOs are going.
00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.379
Um, I'd be curious if you can
kind of give us any sort of Yeah.
00:05:57.379 --> 00:06:00.679
Initial reflections or
reactions from the, the sort of.
00:06:01.679 --> 00:06:04.379
Withings plus an a CO on, on
what this could look like.
00:06:05.189 --> 00:06:05.669
Patrick: Yeah.
00:06:06.239 --> 00:06:08.579
Uh, this is where I'm
spending like all my time.
00:06:08.909 --> 00:06:09.869
Uh, it's really exciting.
00:06:10.019 --> 00:06:10.619
I love it.
00:06:10.619 --> 00:06:12.479
I think it's like this is the evolution.
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:17.219
Um, RPM was like a false start
in hindsight, uh, all things
00:06:17.219 --> 00:06:19.289
considered for this purpose.
00:06:19.859 --> 00:06:23.399
The, so today we have a number
of a CO partners doing remote
00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:26.969
management of heart failure,
hypertension, obesity, c management.
00:06:27.689 --> 00:06:33.299
Most of the conversation today is
how do we work together to avoid
00:06:33.299 --> 00:06:34.919
possible fragmentation of care?
00:06:35.729 --> 00:06:39.629
That's the number one
focus today, and we are.
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.889
Operating from a place of,
okay, how do we ensure that a
00:06:43.889 --> 00:06:47.369
patient is one, has the choice?
00:06:47.369 --> 00:06:50.669
'cause this is really the core pillar and
as you guys, we didn't speak about this,
00:06:50.669 --> 00:06:55.649
but the thing I'm most excited about with
access isn't the outcomes-based payment.
00:06:55.799 --> 00:06:57.989
I think that's kind of table
stakes for this movement.
00:06:58.259 --> 00:06:59.519
It's patient choice.
00:06:59.909 --> 00:07:05.279
Um, the idea that a patient's benefits
isn't limited by who the payer has
00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:09.749
contracted with and is a complete
open kind of app store approach to the
00:07:09.749 --> 00:07:12.059
benefit, I think is transformational.
00:07:12.059 --> 00:07:14.219
And I think other payers
will probably follow suit.
00:07:14.669 --> 00:07:17.489
Um, but that patient choice
also means that there's a
00:07:17.489 --> 00:07:18.989
risk of fragmentation of care.
00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:20.249
For a PCP.
00:07:20.699 --> 00:07:24.419
Um, so you might have a, you know,
a patient panel if you're, you
00:07:24.419 --> 00:07:27.719
know, a thousand, 1500 patients
and then they're in, you know, a
00:07:27.719 --> 00:07:29.489
couple hundred different programs.
00:07:29.819 --> 00:07:31.559
Um, they themselves, right?
00:07:31.559 --> 00:07:32.849
And that's very complicated.
00:07:32.849 --> 00:07:38.129
So how do we preserve patient choice, but
also ensure that, um, we're coordinating
00:07:38.159 --> 00:07:42.959
back in a way that doesn't create friction
with PCPs and, and, you know, hinder
00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:45.059
the growth of the access, uh, pilot.
00:07:46.859 --> 00:07:49.649
Kevin: Picking up on that choice,
one of the, one of the prerequisites
00:07:49.649 --> 00:07:53.039
in that is awareness, and that's
been a big part of the topic of
00:07:53.039 --> 00:07:57.089
conversation with access, is how is
the program actually driving awareness
00:07:57.089 --> 00:07:58.559
of these decisions with patients?
00:07:59.339 --> 00:08:03.269
How with Withings in the installed
base you already have, I would
00:08:03.269 --> 00:08:05.279
imagine that creates a channel to go.
00:08:05.609 --> 00:08:07.019
Create awareness within that.
00:08:07.229 --> 00:08:10.829
But I, I'd be interested in how are
you thinking about driving awareness?
00:08:10.949 --> 00:08:14.999
Do you expect, like, are the 65 plus
population gonna be getting flyers in the
00:08:14.999 --> 00:08:19.379
mail starting on July 5th, being like,
Hey, you know, come use us in access.
00:08:19.379 --> 00:08:23.159
Or like, what does, what does this
feel like as a program goes live
00:08:23.159 --> 00:08:24.389
from an awareness perspective?
00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.259
Patrick: You know, I'll tell you, uh,
we're still thinking about the playbook.
00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:33.359
We're, we're, I, there's a lot of gray
area in Medicare marketing because a
00:08:33.359 --> 00:08:37.229
lot of it's been written for Medicare
Advantage and we're trying to get clarity
00:08:37.229 --> 00:08:40.649
and about, uh, what meets the intent here.
00:08:40.649 --> 00:08:45.539
But I'll tell you what we want to
avoid is, you know, the 9:00 PM you're
00:08:45.539 --> 00:08:49.469
watching, you know, C-N-N-M-S-N-V-C,
Fox News and you get a commercial
00:08:49.469 --> 00:08:51.419
for Whiting saying scan QR code.
00:08:51.419 --> 00:08:53.189
Like, we're trying to avoid that.
00:08:53.219 --> 00:08:56.219
'cause I think that's where
this pilot access model falls
00:08:56.219 --> 00:08:59.579
apart is that type of behavior.
00:09:00.179 --> 00:09:02.399
Um, you know, from an
awareness perspective.
00:09:03.074 --> 00:09:06.344
We're thinking about, you know, how
we can best serve our consumer base.
00:09:06.344 --> 00:09:10.304
We ran a couple surveys with our
65 plus population and you know, we
00:09:10.304 --> 00:09:14.174
have a, I think over a million to
2,000,065 plus in our consumer base.
00:09:14.174 --> 00:09:16.604
And, you know, the number one
thing they're looking for is
00:09:16.604 --> 00:09:18.014
actually hypertension management
00:09:19.034 --> 00:09:19.274
Martin: really.
00:09:19.364 --> 00:09:21.674
Patrick: And that's across,
you know, scales, blood
00:09:21.674 --> 00:09:23.594
pressure cuffs, uh, wearables.
00:09:23.594 --> 00:09:25.394
They're looking for help
with their hypertension.
00:09:25.994 --> 00:09:28.844
And that's great and we can offer that.
00:09:29.474 --> 00:09:33.674
But we also think about it like,
hey, the number one most impactful
00:09:33.674 --> 00:09:35.354
intervention for a patient.
00:09:35.834 --> 00:09:36.194
Sure.
00:09:36.194 --> 00:09:37.694
Coming into access is great.
00:09:37.784 --> 00:09:38.924
We need to get you to a PC.
00:09:39.389 --> 00:09:40.499
You know what I mean?
00:09:40.529 --> 00:09:44.249
Like, we need to get you in front
of A PCP and we can help you with
00:09:44.249 --> 00:09:45.899
that and then come into access.
00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:49.739
So I, the more we think about this,
the more we think it, that the point of
00:09:49.739 --> 00:09:53.939
access is for tech companies, like with
things to come to the table and have,
00:09:53.969 --> 00:09:55.529
you know, place our chips on the table.
00:09:55.529 --> 00:09:57.209
Like, hey, we're at risk on the outcome.
00:09:57.779 --> 00:10:01.289
But this only works if we have other
stakeholders at the table saying,
00:10:01.289 --> 00:10:06.779
Hey, I am accountable to total cost of
care and I'm thinking about the full,
00:10:07.079 --> 00:10:08.819
you know, care plan of this patient.
00:10:08.849 --> 00:10:12.539
We think we have to come at it, uh,
as a team with the rest of the market.
00:10:14.219 --> 00:10:17.219
Martin: One of the things that I find
fascinating about the access model
00:10:17.219 --> 00:10:21.569
is CMS has lined up a bunch of payers
in the commercial space and Medicaid
00:10:21.569 --> 00:10:27.269
space and ma space to commit to, in
principle, to a similar payment model.
00:10:27.659 --> 00:10:30.750
I realize that the access model hasn't
rolled out in the original cohort yet.
00:10:30.869 --> 00:10:36.029
I'd be curious though, you know, you
mentioned one or 2 million on, uh, on the
00:10:36.029 --> 00:10:40.349
65 plus, but there's also probably a lot
of commercial folks and when I look around
00:10:40.349 --> 00:10:42.509
my gym, I see folks with livings watches.
00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:46.859
Uh, what, what, what, how are you thinking
about the commercial market for this?
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:51.599
Patrick: If I'm a payer,
why would I not do access?
00:10:51.599 --> 00:10:53.609
Obviously it has to be successful, right?
00:10:53.939 --> 00:10:56.189
But it's inherently deflationary, right?
00:10:56.250 --> 00:11:03.689
Um, and you're solving for a huge burden,
which is contracting for benefits.
00:11:04.199 --> 00:11:08.159
Um, if I'm a payer, this is
very attractive, I think.
00:11:08.819 --> 00:11:12.689
I think a lot of this comes back to,
is it gonna work from a, you know,
00:11:12.689 --> 00:11:16.949
how does, how do access participants
work with a provider network?
00:11:17.429 --> 00:11:21.869
Um, and I think it's gonna be a lot
of the, a lot of the relationship.
00:11:22.290 --> 00:11:28.109
Um, yeah, I mean we, we obviously would
invite this to grow to other payers.
00:11:28.170 --> 00:11:30.299
Um, and it'll be the same approach, right?
00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:34.469
Where we have an embedded consumer base,
we have, you know, uh, partnerships with
00:11:34.469 --> 00:11:38.489
health systems ACOs, who are also managing
commercial ACOs, managing employer
00:11:38.489 --> 00:11:44.219
sponsored programs, and being able to, um,
to, you know, do the access model there.
00:11:44.460 --> 00:11:48.599
But we're really thinking about
the first participation period, the
00:11:48.599 --> 00:11:50.219
first period performance period.
00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:56.729
And, you know, coming back to, we wanna
ensure that the full model is successful.
00:11:57.149 --> 00:12:01.379
I think another thing that's like
piggybacking access really closely,
00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:05.309
and maybe this is the, the true purpose
of access in the market is gonna be.
00:12:05.684 --> 00:12:09.614
You know, CMS balance and the
expansion of GLP ones starting July.
00:12:09.614 --> 00:12:11.954
I know Kevin, we spoke
about this a few weeks ago.
00:12:12.344 --> 00:12:17.834
Two, and you know, as we can anticipate,
you know, why distribution of GLP
00:12:17.834 --> 00:12:22.514
ones to a senior population that
has frailty and risk of falls and,
00:12:22.844 --> 00:12:26.534
and other adverse events, things
like access might be part of the
00:12:26.534 --> 00:12:29.954
infrastructure, um, for that population.
00:12:29.984 --> 00:12:34.814
I think of remote monitoring and
technology, device centric care as
00:12:34.814 --> 00:12:39.314
being great with paired with medication
management paired for medication safety.
00:12:39.314 --> 00:12:43.334
So I think there's a lot of value in
the commercial population, but I'm
00:12:43.334 --> 00:12:47.324
really, really focused right now on
that first performance year and what
00:12:47.324 --> 00:12:49.964
is access as a new layer of care.
00:12:50.054 --> 00:12:53.564
'cause it really is something new and
defining that with the rest of the market.
00:12:55.424 --> 00:12:57.915
Kevin: I am curious to go back to
the survey you mentioned, Patrick,
00:12:57.915 --> 00:13:03.795
and the data you talked about on, on
patients and I, I, um, I'd be in, so
00:13:03.795 --> 00:13:07.934
hearing that there is such an interest
in, in hypertension management, I
00:13:07.934 --> 00:13:13.094
immediately start to wonder what is
the relationship with A PCP like today?
00:13:13.094 --> 00:13:13.154
Yeah.
00:13:13.184 --> 00:13:16.574
Like I, I, I hear, you know, one of the,
the veins of pushback I hear against
00:13:16.574 --> 00:13:21.134
access and, and thinking about using
technology in this way is displacing
00:13:21.134 --> 00:13:25.034
the relationship between somebody and
their PCP and concerns around that.
00:13:25.064 --> 00:13:28.484
And, um, what that all implies.
00:13:28.484 --> 00:13:31.244
But when I, when I hear that from
the survey results, I'm like,
00:13:32.234 --> 00:13:35.625
how close are relationships do
these people have with PCPs today?
00:13:35.625 --> 00:13:37.665
And what does that really look like?
00:13:37.694 --> 00:13:41.174
I, I'd be, I'd be curious, any
reflections from the survey, things
00:13:41.174 --> 00:13:45.734
you heard from that, lessons learned
about what the state of that actually
00:13:45.734 --> 00:13:48.974
looks like in the Medicare population
using your guys' devices right now?
00:13:50.354 --> 00:13:53.174
Patrick: Yeah, that's a great, we
don't have that direct data, but that's
00:13:53.174 --> 00:13:54.584
where we need to be thinking about.
00:13:54.584 --> 00:13:55.184
Right Kevin?
00:13:55.184 --> 00:13:58.004
It's, you know, and I think that's
how we're trying to, at least
00:13:58.004 --> 00:14:03.884
Withings is access participation
is being defined by how we augment
00:14:04.304 --> 00:14:07.274
as a new layer of care for the pcp.
00:14:07.844 --> 00:14:08.024
Kevin: Yep.
00:14:08.144 --> 00:14:11.924
Patrick: And I think this could, I
think access is also kind of like a, a
00:14:11.924 --> 00:14:17.294
new tool in the toolbox for an A CO to
be doing a better a CO lead program.
00:14:17.354 --> 00:14:20.924
Or if you're doing ambulatory
specialty model, here's a layer of
00:14:20.924 --> 00:14:23.354
digital care you can add on top of it.
00:14:23.354 --> 00:14:26.219
So I really think of it as
being more like a utility.
00:14:26.219 --> 00:14:30.134
Like I think the core principle,
at least what gets me excited every
00:14:30.134 --> 00:14:34.064
morning, I'm up every morning just
ready to go because I think of it
00:14:34.064 --> 00:14:39.224
as like we're providing patients
this new, always on level of care.
00:14:39.254 --> 00:14:42.134
The assumption is that everyone
with a chronic condition should get
00:14:42.134 --> 00:14:44.354
some level of support day to day.
00:14:44.354 --> 00:14:44.364
Mm-hmm.
00:14:44.924 --> 00:14:47.954
And much like we give people
electricity while their heat.
00:14:48.374 --> 00:14:52.364
Let's get some, give them a layer
of care that's gonna be with them
00:14:52.454 --> 00:14:54.884
and, but we can't replace the PCP.
00:14:55.364 --> 00:14:58.424
Um, that's, and that's, I think
it's really important that the, the
00:14:58.424 --> 00:15:02.384
broader access cohort, um, uh, be
respectful of that relationship.
00:15:04.124 --> 00:15:06.314
Martin: Patrick, this
has been hugely helpful.
00:15:06.584 --> 00:15:09.434
We will definitely have you
back once things get kicked off.
00:15:09.434 --> 00:15:09.554
Awesome.
00:15:09.554 --> 00:15:11.114
So you can share how things are going.
00:15:11.294 --> 00:15:12.074
In the meantime.
00:15:12.104 --> 00:15:15.824
If I lead an a CO and I wanna
work with Withings, what's the
00:15:15.824 --> 00:15:17.204
best way for me to get in touch?
00:15:18.014 --> 00:15:18.914
Patrick: Yeah, always.
00:15:18.914 --> 00:15:20.204
Um, visit our website.
00:15:20.204 --> 00:15:23.444
We have a professionals page as
well, but otherwise, feel free
00:15:23.444 --> 00:15:25.484
to reach out, uh, to me directly.
00:15:25.724 --> 00:15:28.454
Uh, first name, last name,
Patrick amp winnings.com.
00:15:28.934 --> 00:15:31.544
Uh, you know, very transparently,
I think what the mar, what
00:15:31.544 --> 00:15:32.894
ACOs are enjoying about.
00:15:33.224 --> 00:15:37.034
Talking and working with things is that
there's no playbook that's been built
00:15:37.124 --> 00:15:39.344
and we are trying to build it with them.
00:15:39.434 --> 00:15:43.514
Uh, and um, it's been a very
exciting few months to say the least.
00:15:44.084 --> 00:15:44.864
Martin: I can only imagine.
00:15:44.864 --> 00:15:44.984
Sure.
00:15:46.244 --> 00:15:47.924
Thanks so much, Patrick.
00:15:48.434 --> 00:15:48.524
Kevin: Yep.
00:15:48.524 --> 00:15:48.824
Patrick: Thanks guys.
00:15:48.824 --> 00:15:48.914
Kevin: Good.
00:15:49.724 --> 00:15:50.114
Patrick: Take care.
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.359
Kevin: Good to see you.
00:00:00.359 --> 00:00:01.679
Patrick, welcome to the show.
00:00:02.489 --> 00:00:02.729
Patrick: Thank
00:00:02.729 --> 00:00:02.789
Kevin: you.
00:00:02.789 --> 00:00:06.029
As you probably, as you probably heard
us just teeing up, we're excited to
00:00:06.029 --> 00:00:09.989
talk with you about, um, what y'all
up to it Withings, uh, the access
00:00:09.989 --> 00:00:12.719
model in particular, how you're
thinking about the opportunity there.
00:00:12.779 --> 00:00:14.039
So maybe let's start with that.
00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:19.289
I'd be curious as one of the, the
hundred 50th, 50 ish participants
00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:22.170
in the model, how are you
thinking about the opportunity?
00:00:22.170 --> 00:00:23.609
What gets you excited about the model?
00:00:23.609 --> 00:00:24.929
What led you guys to apply?
00:00:26.729 --> 00:00:29.849
Patrick: You know, I, um, one,
we're very excited and thank you
00:00:29.849 --> 00:00:32.909
Martin and Kevin, uh, for having
us on and talking about access.
00:00:32.939 --> 00:00:37.409
Um, look, I think access is like a
big moment for digital health and
00:00:37.409 --> 00:00:38.670
you guys spoke about it very well.
00:00:38.670 --> 00:00:41.969
Like, why hasn't digital
health come more to the table?
00:00:42.659 --> 00:00:45.839
Maybe like the role of the device is
like really important here, but the
00:00:45.839 --> 00:00:49.949
more that we got into the weeds of
access, the more we spoke with Jacob
00:00:49.949 --> 00:00:54.509
and company at CMMI, the more we were
like, actually this is a great model
00:00:54.509 --> 00:00:59.909
for a device company and all of our
exper expertise and delivering care and
00:00:59.909 --> 00:01:02.099
enabling care and the Medicare population.
00:01:02.729 --> 00:01:09.599
Um, and you know, what we think about it
is, look, the hardest part in all of this
00:01:09.629 --> 00:01:11.639
is getting a patient to use a device.
00:01:11.669 --> 00:01:15.119
You know, I think a lot about, like
the payment is fully contingent
00:01:15.149 --> 00:01:18.869
on a patient using a device for
the baselining, for the quarterly
00:01:18.869 --> 00:01:20.699
payment for the end of year payment.
00:01:21.269 --> 00:01:22.949
The device is core to all of this.
00:01:23.489 --> 00:01:28.469
And, um, and we also know that patients
love using our devices and that blend of
00:01:28.469 --> 00:01:33.239
like, consumer plus we have huge amount
of healthcare partnerships with ACOs,
00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:35.609
health systems, getting data back to PCPs.
00:01:36.179 --> 00:01:39.059
I could talk endlessly about it,
but we felt more and more that the
00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:43.500
people who were gonna succeed in this
model or those who have that consumer
00:01:43.500 --> 00:01:48.119
backbone, but also have the right
pipes into the healthcare system to
00:01:48.119 --> 00:01:51.569
have that coordinated collaborative
care approach for the patient.
00:01:53.099 --> 00:01:56.129
Martin: The main thing we've heard
from folks who are not participating
00:01:56.129 --> 00:01:58.589
is some complaints about the rates.
00:01:58.769 --> 00:02:02.069
Obviously, we're not looking for you
to get into your secret sauce here.
00:02:02.069 --> 00:02:02.159
Yeah.
00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:06.239
On, on how you did the math, but
curious for your high level reflections
00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:10.500
on how you interpreted the rates,
what you're sort of seeing as the
00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:14.459
opportunity here and how you're
thinking about, you know, leveraging
00:02:14.459 --> 00:02:16.709
AI to help make this stuff work.
00:02:18.269 --> 00:02:22.739
Patrick: Yeah, so the rates as they are
today are sustainable for Withings, but
00:02:22.769 --> 00:02:26.849
Withings we're kind of, and other device
companies were kind of unique because we
00:02:26.849 --> 00:02:33.209
own the main cost structure and this care,
which is the hardware required, uh, to
00:02:33.209 --> 00:02:35.309
be able to manage the patient remotely.
00:02:36.029 --> 00:02:38.549
You know, the way I think about it,
and you guys probably think about
00:02:38.549 --> 00:02:42.179
it the same way, but this is a
pilot and you know, we're coming in
00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:44.099
the first year, the first cohort.
00:02:44.129 --> 00:02:49.349
I think a safe bet is that this is going
to evolve as time goes along as well.
00:02:49.739 --> 00:02:52.889
So like, as the rates are today,
we're very happy with them.
00:02:53.234 --> 00:02:57.854
Uh, we're looking at a sustainable
business in access alone, but we're
00:02:57.854 --> 00:03:02.054
also really thinking about, hey, this
is the star of a pilot with CMMI.
00:03:02.264 --> 00:03:04.844
This is going to evolve quite rapidly.
00:03:05.204 --> 00:03:08.684
You know, I, you know, we were
talking about, um, we we're all
00:03:08.684 --> 00:03:10.724
rooting for this as taxpayers, right?
00:03:10.724 --> 00:03:11.384
For this to succeed.
00:03:11.384 --> 00:03:15.794
You guys were opening up with that
today, I think about MSSP, you
00:03:15.794 --> 00:03:20.744
know, like in 2014, you know, PCPs
were saying, we can't do this.
00:03:20.744 --> 00:03:22.214
Like, this is too low of a rate.
00:03:22.214 --> 00:03:24.134
We're not gonna, it's not gonna work out.
00:03:24.974 --> 00:03:28.844
And you fast forward a little bit and
you had these insurgent models, right?
00:03:28.844 --> 00:03:34.124
You had these enablers pop up because
they had the core technology of
00:03:34.124 --> 00:03:38.264
like pop health analytics, really
robust to enable that payment,
00:03:38.264 --> 00:03:40.604
enable success in the MSSP program.
00:03:41.114 --> 00:03:46.424
I think access is kind of the same way
where the incumbents, you know, this
00:03:46.424 --> 00:03:50.894
is difficult in the status quo, but
we're gonna have this insurgency of.
00:03:51.344 --> 00:03:54.944
Companies who have the right technology
in place, who can build for it.
00:03:55.394 --> 00:03:58.694
Um, and I think this will be
a very successful program with
00:03:58.694 --> 00:03:59.774
the right people at the table.
00:04:01.424 --> 00:04:04.214
Kevin: Patrick, I think most of
us think of Withings as connected
00:04:04.214 --> 00:04:07.394
device company, manufacturer
scales and blood pressure cuffs.
00:04:07.454 --> 00:04:10.274
Uh, people use them in their
homes to be part of this program.
00:04:10.274 --> 00:04:13.484
I'd be curious, are you
expanding scope of Withings?
00:04:13.484 --> 00:04:16.514
Like there's been conversations about
becoming Medicare provider, part B
00:04:16.514 --> 00:04:18.164
provider to participate in the program.
00:04:18.585 --> 00:04:22.005
What have you had to build on top of kind
of the core connected device offering
00:04:22.005 --> 00:04:25.454
for access in particular and how you're
thinking about that moving forward?
00:04:26.189 --> 00:04:28.949
Patrick: Yeah, so we are a
Medicare Part B provider today.
00:04:29.249 --> 00:04:35.309
I think of it as, you know, one, it's a
natural evolution of what we do every day.
00:04:35.309 --> 00:04:38.669
So with thing is, I mean, we have
15 million users around the world.
00:04:38.669 --> 00:04:40.949
Kevin, I know you're,
you're one of them as well.
00:04:41.249 --> 00:04:44.879
We have a medic, a million medical
patients being monitored today, anywhere
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.509
from a million to a million and a half on
a given day with our healthcare partners.
00:04:48.689 --> 00:04:51.659
Like we know what works, um,
in managing hypertension.
00:04:51.659 --> 00:04:53.819
We know what works in
managing obesity, et cetera.
00:04:54.179 --> 00:04:59.069
Uh, so we have formed, um, you know,
our Part B, uh, medical group and what
00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:02.189
we're building out, and we'll announce
our clinical leadership as well.
00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:04.229
But what we're building out is a.
00:05:04.549 --> 00:05:07.339
A care model that's focused on
being this new layer of care.
00:05:07.489 --> 00:05:10.159
And this is where I spend a lot of
my time, Kevin and Martin, thinking
00:05:10.159 --> 00:05:15.589
about with our a CO partners, is
where does our care begin and where
00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:17.329
do we bring it back to you guys?
00:05:17.329 --> 00:05:21.079
And that, that's why I'm kind of
urging the full access cohort is,
00:05:21.379 --> 00:05:23.299
Hey, don't go at it alone guys.
00:05:23.299 --> 00:05:28.399
Because if, if we, if participants
start going at it alone, we're
00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:32.029
going to create friction with the
ACOs, with the health systems.
00:05:32.029 --> 00:05:34.039
And I think that's how the pilot fails.
00:05:34.489 --> 00:05:39.709
I'm like really urging participants to
really think about how you integrate
00:05:39.709 --> 00:05:43.429
back, how you coordinate back with
the ACOs, with the health systems.
00:05:44.539 --> 00:05:46.579
Martin: I, I think that's one
of the things that I'm most
00:05:46.579 --> 00:05:50.929
fascinated by is what, you know,
how ACOs are thinking about this.
00:05:50.929 --> 00:05:50.989
Yeah.
00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:54.349
How those conversations
with ACOs are going.
00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.379
Um, I'd be curious if you can
kind of give us any sort of Yeah.
00:05:57.379 --> 00:06:00.679
Initial reflections or
reactions from the, the sort of.
00:06:01.679 --> 00:06:04.379
Withings plus an a CO on, on
what this could look like.
00:06:05.189 --> 00:06:05.669
Patrick: Yeah.
00:06:06.239 --> 00:06:08.579
Uh, this is where I'm
spending like all my time.
00:06:08.909 --> 00:06:09.869
Uh, it's really exciting.
00:06:10.019 --> 00:06:10.619
I love it.
00:06:10.619 --> 00:06:12.479
I think it's like this is the evolution.
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:17.219
Um, RPM was like a false start
in hindsight, uh, all things
00:06:17.219 --> 00:06:19.289
considered for this purpose.
00:06:19.859 --> 00:06:23.399
The, so today we have a number
of a CO partners doing remote
00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:26.969
management of heart failure,
hypertension, obesity, c management.
00:06:27.689 --> 00:06:33.299
Most of the conversation today is
how do we work together to avoid
00:06:33.299 --> 00:06:34.919
possible fragmentation of care?
00:06:35.729 --> 00:06:39.629
That's the number one
focus today, and we are.
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.889
Operating from a place of,
okay, how do we ensure that a
00:06:43.889 --> 00:06:47.369
patient is one, has the choice?
00:06:47.369 --> 00:06:50.669
'cause this is really the core pillar and
as you guys, we didn't speak about this,
00:06:50.669 --> 00:06:55.649
but the thing I'm most excited about with
access isn't the outcomes-based payment.
00:06:55.799 --> 00:06:57.989
I think that's kind of table
stakes for this movement.
00:06:58.259 --> 00:06:59.519
It's patient choice.
00:06:59.909 --> 00:07:05.279
Um, the idea that a patient's benefits
isn't limited by who the payer has
00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:09.749
contracted with and is a complete
open kind of app store approach to the
00:07:09.749 --> 00:07:12.059
benefit, I think is transformational.
00:07:12.059 --> 00:07:14.219
And I think other payers
will probably follow suit.
00:07:14.669 --> 00:07:17.489
Um, but that patient choice
also means that there's a
00:07:17.489 --> 00:07:18.989
risk of fragmentation of care.
00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:20.249
For a PCP.
00:07:20.699 --> 00:07:24.419
Um, so you might have a, you know,
a patient panel if you're, you
00:07:24.419 --> 00:07:27.719
know, a thousand, 1500 patients
and then they're in, you know, a
00:07:27.719 --> 00:07:29.489
couple hundred different programs.
00:07:29.819 --> 00:07:31.559
Um, they themselves, right?
00:07:31.559 --> 00:07:32.849
And that's very complicated.
00:07:32.849 --> 00:07:38.129
So how do we preserve patient choice, but
also ensure that, um, we're coordinating
00:07:38.159 --> 00:07:42.959
back in a way that doesn't create friction
with PCPs and, and, you know, hinder
00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:45.059
the growth of the access, uh, pilot.
00:07:46.859 --> 00:07:49.649
Kevin: Picking up on that choice,
one of the, one of the prerequisites
00:07:49.649 --> 00:07:53.039
in that is awareness, and that's
been a big part of the topic of
00:07:53.039 --> 00:07:57.089
conversation with access, is how is
the program actually driving awareness
00:07:57.089 --> 00:07:58.559
of these decisions with patients?
00:07:59.339 --> 00:08:03.269
How with Withings in the installed
base you already have, I would
00:08:03.269 --> 00:08:05.279
imagine that creates a channel to go.
00:08:05.609 --> 00:08:07.019
Create awareness within that.
00:08:07.229 --> 00:08:10.829
But I, I'd be interested in how are
you thinking about driving awareness?
00:08:10.949 --> 00:08:14.999
Do you expect, like, are the 65 plus
population gonna be getting flyers in the
00:08:14.999 --> 00:08:19.379
mail starting on July 5th, being like,
Hey, you know, come use us in access.
00:08:19.379 --> 00:08:23.159
Or like, what does, what does this
feel like as a program goes live
00:08:23.159 --> 00:08:24.389
from an awareness perspective?
00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.259
Patrick: You know, I'll tell you, uh,
we're still thinking about the playbook.
00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:33.359
We're, we're, I, there's a lot of gray
area in Medicare marketing because a
00:08:33.359 --> 00:08:37.229
lot of it's been written for Medicare
Advantage and we're trying to get clarity
00:08:37.229 --> 00:08:40.649
and about, uh, what meets the intent here.
00:08:40.649 --> 00:08:45.539
But I'll tell you what we want to
avoid is, you know, the 9:00 PM you're
00:08:45.539 --> 00:08:49.469
watching, you know, C-N-N-M-S-N-V-C,
Fox News and you get a commercial
00:08:49.469 --> 00:08:51.419
for Whiting saying scan QR code.
00:08:51.419 --> 00:08:53.189
Like, we're trying to avoid that.
00:08:53.219 --> 00:08:56.219
'cause I think that's where
this pilot access model falls
00:08:56.219 --> 00:08:59.579
apart is that type of behavior.
00:09:00.179 --> 00:09:02.399
Um, you know, from an
awareness perspective.
00:09:03.074 --> 00:09:06.344
We're thinking about, you know, how
we can best serve our consumer base.
00:09:06.344 --> 00:09:10.304
We ran a couple surveys with our
65 plus population and you know, we
00:09:10.304 --> 00:09:14.174
have a, I think over a million to
2,000,065 plus in our consumer base.
00:09:14.174 --> 00:09:16.604
And, you know, the number one
thing they're looking for is
00:09:16.604 --> 00:09:18.014
actually hypertension management
00:09:19.034 --> 00:09:19.274
Martin: really.
00:09:19.364 --> 00:09:21.674
Patrick: And that's across,
you know, scales, blood
00:09:21.674 --> 00:09:23.594
pressure cuffs, uh, wearables.
00:09:23.594 --> 00:09:25.394
They're looking for help
with their hypertension.
00:09:25.994 --> 00:09:28.844
And that's great and we can offer that.
00:09:29.474 --> 00:09:33.674
But we also think about it like,
hey, the number one most impactful
00:09:33.674 --> 00:09:35.354
intervention for a patient.
00:09:35.834 --> 00:09:36.194
Sure.
00:09:36.194 --> 00:09:37.694
Coming into access is great.
00:09:37.784 --> 00:09:38.924
We need to get you to a PC.
00:09:39.389 --> 00:09:40.499
You know what I mean?
00:09:40.529 --> 00:09:44.249
Like, we need to get you in front
of A PCP and we can help you with
00:09:44.249 --> 00:09:45.899
that and then come into access.
00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:49.739
So I, the more we think about this,
the more we think it, that the point of
00:09:49.739 --> 00:09:53.939
access is for tech companies, like with
things to come to the table and have,
00:09:53.969 --> 00:09:55.529
you know, place our chips on the table.
00:09:55.529 --> 00:09:57.209
Like, hey, we're at risk on the outcome.
00:09:57.779 --> 00:10:01.289
But this only works if we have other
stakeholders at the table saying,
00:10:01.289 --> 00:10:06.779
Hey, I am accountable to total cost of
care and I'm thinking about the full,
00:10:07.079 --> 00:10:08.819
you know, care plan of this patient.
00:10:08.849 --> 00:10:12.539
We think we have to come at it, uh,
as a team with the rest of the market.
00:10:14.219 --> 00:10:17.219
Martin: One of the things that I find
fascinating about the access model
00:10:17.219 --> 00:10:21.569
is CMS has lined up a bunch of payers
in the commercial space and Medicaid
00:10:21.569 --> 00:10:27.269
space and ma space to commit to, in
principle, to a similar payment model.
00:10:27.659 --> 00:10:30.750
I realize that the access model hasn't
rolled out in the original cohort yet.
00:10:30.869 --> 00:10:36.029
I'd be curious though, you know, you
mentioned one or 2 million on, uh, on the
00:10:36.029 --> 00:10:40.349
65 plus, but there's also probably a lot
of commercial folks and when I look around
00:10:40.349 --> 00:10:42.509
my gym, I see folks with livings watches.
00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:46.859
Uh, what, what, what, how are you thinking
about the commercial market for this?
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:51.599
Patrick: If I'm a payer,
why would I not do access?
00:10:51.599 --> 00:10:53.609
Obviously it has to be successful, right?
00:10:53.939 --> 00:10:56.189
But it's inherently deflationary, right?
00:10:56.250 --> 00:11:03.689
Um, and you're solving for a huge burden,
which is contracting for benefits.
00:11:04.199 --> 00:11:08.159
Um, if I'm a payer, this is
very attractive, I think.
00:11:08.819 --> 00:11:12.689
I think a lot of this comes back to,
is it gonna work from a, you know,
00:11:12.689 --> 00:11:16.949
how does, how do access participants
work with a provider network?
00:11:17.429 --> 00:11:21.869
Um, and I think it's gonna be a lot
of the, a lot of the relationship.
00:11:22.290 --> 00:11:28.109
Um, yeah, I mean we, we obviously would
invite this to grow to other payers.
00:11:28.170 --> 00:11:30.299
Um, and it'll be the same approach, right?
00:11:30.299 --> 00:11:34.469
Where we have an embedded consumer base,
we have, you know, uh, partnerships with
00:11:34.469 --> 00:11:38.489
health systems ACOs, who are also managing
commercial ACOs, managing employer
00:11:38.489 --> 00:11:44.219
sponsored programs, and being able to, um,
to, you know, do the access model there.
00:11:44.460 --> 00:11:48.599
But we're really thinking about
the first participation period, the
00:11:48.599 --> 00:11:50.219
first period performance period.
00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:56.729
And, you know, coming back to, we wanna
ensure that the full model is successful.
00:11:57.149 --> 00:12:01.379
I think another thing that's like
piggybacking access really closely,
00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:05.309
and maybe this is the, the true purpose
of access in the market is gonna be.
00:12:05.684 --> 00:12:09.614
You know, CMS balance and the
expansion of GLP ones starting July.
00:12:09.614 --> 00:12:11.954
I know Kevin, we spoke
about this a few weeks ago.
00:12:12.344 --> 00:12:17.834
Two, and you know, as we can anticipate,
you know, why distribution of GLP
00:12:17.834 --> 00:12:22.514
ones to a senior population that
has frailty and risk of falls and,
00:12:22.844 --> 00:12:26.534
and other adverse events, things
like access might be part of the
00:12:26.534 --> 00:12:29.954
infrastructure, um, for that population.
00:12:29.984 --> 00:12:34.814
I think of remote monitoring and
technology, device centric care as
00:12:34.814 --> 00:12:39.314
being great with paired with medication
management paired for medication safety.
00:12:39.314 --> 00:12:43.334
So I think there's a lot of value in
the commercial population, but I'm
00:12:43.334 --> 00:12:47.324
really, really focused right now on
that first performance year and what
00:12:47.324 --> 00:12:49.964
is access as a new layer of care.
00:12:50.054 --> 00:12:53.564
'cause it really is something new and
defining that with the rest of the market.
00:12:55.424 --> 00:12:57.915
Kevin: I am curious to go back to
the survey you mentioned, Patrick,
00:12:57.915 --> 00:13:03.795
and the data you talked about on, on
patients and I, I, um, I'd be in, so
00:13:03.795 --> 00:13:07.934
hearing that there is such an interest
in, in hypertension management, I
00:13:07.934 --> 00:13:13.094
immediately start to wonder what is
the relationship with A PCP like today?
00:13:13.094 --> 00:13:13.154
Yeah.
00:13:13.184 --> 00:13:16.574
Like I, I, I hear, you know, one of the,
the veins of pushback I hear against
00:13:16.574 --> 00:13:21.134
access and, and thinking about using
technology in this way is displacing
00:13:21.134 --> 00:13:25.034
the relationship between somebody and
their PCP and concerns around that.
00:13:25.064 --> 00:13:28.484
And, um, what that all implies.
00:13:28.484 --> 00:13:31.244
But when I, when I hear that from
the survey results, I'm like,
00:13:32.234 --> 00:13:35.625
how close are relationships do
these people have with PCPs today?
00:13:35.625 --> 00:13:37.665
And what does that really look like?
00:13:37.694 --> 00:13:41.174
I, I'd be, I'd be curious, any
reflections from the survey, things
00:13:41.174 --> 00:13:45.734
you heard from that, lessons learned
about what the state of that actually
00:13:45.734 --> 00:13:48.974
looks like in the Medicare population
using your guys' devices right now?
00:13:50.354 --> 00:13:53.174
Patrick: Yeah, that's a great, we
don't have that direct data, but that's
00:13:53.174 --> 00:13:54.584
where we need to be thinking about.
00:13:54.584 --> 00:13:55.184
Right Kevin?
00:13:55.184 --> 00:13:58.004
It's, you know, and I think that's
how we're trying to, at least
00:13:58.004 --> 00:14:03.884
Withings is access participation
is being defined by how we augment
00:14:04.304 --> 00:14:07.274
as a new layer of care for the pcp.
00:14:07.844 --> 00:14:08.024
Kevin: Yep.
00:14:08.144 --> 00:14:11.924
Patrick: And I think this could, I
think access is also kind of like a, a
00:14:11.924 --> 00:14:17.294
new tool in the toolbox for an A CO to
be doing a better a CO lead program.
00:14:17.354 --> 00:14:20.924
Or if you're doing ambulatory
specialty model, here's a layer of
00:14:20.924 --> 00:14:23.354
digital care you can add on top of it.
00:14:23.354 --> 00:14:26.219
So I really think of it as
being more like a utility.
00:14:26.219 --> 00:14:30.134
Like I think the core principle,
at least what gets me excited every
00:14:30.134 --> 00:14:34.064
morning, I'm up every morning just
ready to go because I think of it
00:14:34.064 --> 00:14:39.224
as like we're providing patients
this new, always on level of care.
00:14:39.254 --> 00:14:42.134
The assumption is that everyone
with a chronic condition should get
00:14:42.134 --> 00:14:44.354
some level of support day to day.
00:14:44.354 --> 00:14:44.364
Mm-hmm.
00:14:44.924 --> 00:14:47.954
And much like we give people
electricity while their heat.
00:14:48.374 --> 00:14:52.364
Let's get some, give them a layer
of care that's gonna be with them
00:14:52.454 --> 00:14:54.884
and, but we can't replace the PCP.
00:14:55.364 --> 00:14:58.424
Um, that's, and that's, I think
it's really important that the, the
00:14:58.424 --> 00:15:02.384
broader access cohort, um, uh, be
respectful of that relationship.
00:15:04.124 --> 00:15:06.314
Martin: Patrick, this
has been hugely helpful.
00:15:06.584 --> 00:15:09.434
We will definitely have you
back once things get kicked off.
00:15:09.434 --> 00:15:09.554
Awesome.
00:15:09.554 --> 00:15:11.114
So you can share how things are going.
00:15:11.294 --> 00:15:12.074
In the meantime.
00:15:12.104 --> 00:15:15.824
If I lead an a CO and I wanna
work with Withings, what's the
00:15:15.824 --> 00:15:17.204
best way for me to get in touch?
00:15:18.014 --> 00:15:18.914
Patrick: Yeah, always.
00:15:18.914 --> 00:15:20.204
Um, visit our website.
00:15:20.204 --> 00:15:23.444
We have a professionals page as
well, but otherwise, feel free
00:15:23.444 --> 00:15:25.484
to reach out, uh, to me directly.
00:15:25.724 --> 00:15:28.454
Uh, first name, last name,
Patrick amp winnings.com.
00:15:28.934 --> 00:15:31.544
Uh, you know, very transparently,
I think what the mar, what
00:15:31.544 --> 00:15:32.894
ACOs are enjoying about.
00:15:33.224 --> 00:15:37.034
Talking and working with things is that
there's no playbook that's been built
00:15:37.124 --> 00:15:39.344
and we are trying to build it with them.
00:15:39.434 --> 00:15:43.514
Uh, and um, it's been a very
exciting few months to say the least.
00:15:44.084 --> 00:15:44.864
Martin: I can only imagine.
00:15:44.864 --> 00:15:44.984
Sure.
00:15:46.244 --> 00:15:47.924
Thanks so much, Patrick.
00:15:48.434 --> 00:15:48.524
Kevin: Yep.
00:15:48.524 --> 00:15:48.824
Patrick: Thanks guys.
00:15:48.824 --> 00:15:48.914
Kevin: Good.
00:15:49.724 --> 00:15:50.114
Patrick: Take care.
