WEBVTT
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Welcome back to Headcase.
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I'm Stephanie Hoffman.
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This season we're getting real about the messiest parts of being human.
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Let's dive in.
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Hi everyone, and welcome back to Headcase.
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Today I'm gonna be doing a solo episode.
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And I just want to start by saying I've been wanting to record an episode like this for a long time.
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And a lot happened and changed that I guess I was supposed to wait until now to do it.
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Um, so basically, we move for love because we believe a change in scenery will finally match the life we've been trying to build.
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I moved to LA with a suitcase and full of hope and a heart that was ready for a success story.
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Um, but what happens when that baggage that you're carrying isn't even yours?
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So I finished nursing school, and as a nurse, I know the clinical impact of stress.
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Moving is at the top of the list.
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In a new city, your partner becomes basically your entire social safety net and you're vulnerable.
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So I moved to LA, I got my own place.
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Two months into the LA dream, I found out that my ex had cheated on me.
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And I didn't find out initially.
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First, we broke up.
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Two weeks go by with no talking, and I find out that he cheated and he was upfront about it.
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Um I remember feeling a specific heat and coldness in my limbs.
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Um and I asked him why.
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Um and we just talked for a really, really long time.
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And I started analyzing him from almost a therapist or a clinical perspective about why he did it, what caused him to do it, what about our relationship made this happen?
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Has he ever done it before?
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And I didn't want to know who the person was at the time, but I just wanted to know why.
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And I think everyone handles the this news differently.
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Some people, you know, throw things at their partner, some people yell and scream.
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I definitely cried, but I just really wanted to understand what the thought process was behind this.
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And, you know, if it was someone that he really felt like he needed to be with instead of me.
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And that wasn't the case, but it still happened.
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Um, I then took more time and told myself, you know, it's great that he actually took the initiative to own up to me about it.
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He was honest, he was raw, he told me everything.
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He he said, you know, he thought he was in love and it was a whirlwind, and it was just very secret, and no one knew about it, and all of that.
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And I just listened, and obviously being in love and being so vulnerable in this new place that I had just arrived in and hadn't even had a job yet.
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I haven't even hadn't even found my first nursing job.
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It was just such a vulnerable position.
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And we had been just officially dating for a few months, but had kind of an open relationship before that, in which I was completely faithful and didn't use that openness to explore other people.
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So I basically we kind of got back together, kind of didn't.
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He turned out to be uh, you know, afraid to kind of the classic, like, I don't want to hurt you, you deserve better kind of thing.
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And then so we were broken up for about three months, and then he came back and he was like, I want this, I'm gonna change, like I will do anything it takes, and um really put himself out there.
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So at that point, I had contemplated so many things leading up to this.
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I mean on went on many walks, I thought about what it would be like if I just got on a plane and went home, or if I stayed in LA, or if I, you know, just got my own place officially and just made made it my home.
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So because he wasn't the full reason I moved there, I decided to stay.
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And I went on a few dates and I tried to see what life was like without him in the picture.
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And it was okay, you know, it's still raw, and you still have feelings for this person.
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I listened to many books on cheating, love attachment, all of those things.
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And um, I read a particular book by Esther Perrell that really opened my eyes to cheating and how it is not black and white, and people have different reasons for cheating, and sometimes it brings people together and sometimes it tears them apart, and it it isn't always the ultimate betrayal.
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And the book really resonated with me, but I think I I obviously wanted to be at this point before he came back the exception to the rule.
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I wanted to prove that if you love someone through their worst mistake, you earn the best version of themselves.
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And you know, he did come back and we got back together, and I was completely fine.
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I honestly didn't even really think about the cheating very much.
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I fully put my trust in him.
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I'm not someone who's very jealous, so I just kind of like let him do his thing.
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If you went out, he came back.
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We had open communication, I never checked phones.
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I am a very secure person, so I just kind of said to myself, if you did it again, it would be done.
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So who cares?
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And throughout a relationship, you know, we were fine.
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It was moving forward, but I didn't even, I didn't really, I didn't really want to still know about this girl, but I eventually did find out who she was and their whole story.
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And that's when more kind of lies came out, and more information about other people came out that wasn't necessarily cheating, but just information you don't want to hear, um, you know, while you're broken up or while you were in an open relationship, things like that.
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And we were going along and till about last week when I uh found out that um it happened again.
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Same pattern, same season, almost exactly two years later.
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Um, so yes, initially I was going to make this episode about how couples can work through anything, which I don't wholly disagree with, but finding out it happened again in the same season, the marker, both times I had not been yet in the city or I had been away.
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This time I was home helping my family for about four and a half months.
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And I yeah, I think everything changed when I found that out.
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The actual kicker is I had broken up with him already in November and for completely other reasons, which was that you know our relationship just wasn't progressing.
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I think we had we're on a different path.
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We were on different paths.
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We had a lot of differences that I think were showing through, and I just didn't feel like it was right anymore.
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And I didn't really want to be in LA anymore.
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And he helped me move out of my apartment, he was super helpful and all of this, but again, up until last week, I had no idea until I was confronted by the girl he cheated on me with, which was a different person than the first time.
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And that kind of changed everything, and I realized I was dealing with a huge mistake and I was dealing with a blueprint.
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And I think because I had moved on, the feelings were different than they would have been the first time than they were the first time.
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I felt a betrayal in a way that I couldn't really explain.
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It was like when your best friend does something to hurt you, or just when someone is just not who you thought they were.
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Um, because after all of that, my friends embraced him.
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Um, you know, he got back into everyone's good graces.
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Like I really felt comfortable and secure at that point.
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Like, didn't even, I don't know, I didn't the cheating the first time almost I almost forgot about it.
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And then when I found this out, I initially cried because it was just shocking.
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And I felt like why be in a relationship if you're even close to the point where you want to stray?
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Because I'm an extremely loyal person and I have never cheated, and I don't understand it.
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I mean, I'm now understanding it more because I've been reading about it, but I don't really I think it's a choice you make, and then you know, the person who cheats or you cheat with are both guilty.
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And this person happened to tell me very specific and intimate details, which if I was in a different place in my life, I had been less strong and resilient hearing those things.
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Um, but you know, it has been a hard week and a half, so I was I'm still strong and resilient.
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So I was able to handle it.
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There was a part of me, because we had already broken up that just was felt sorry for him and was like, I'm sorry that this person is so broken that they feel like they have to do that, and um genuinely that there's just something wrong.
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So that leads me to kind of a clinical corner of the episode where um in nursing we distinguish between acute and chronic.
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You know, the first affair was an acute injury, basically, and the second it becomes like a chronic condition.
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So when betrayal happens, your amygdala, the fire alarm of your brain, goes into overdrive.
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And finding out it happened again causes a state of bilateral alarm.
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So your brain realizes the person is the person who's supposed to be your safe harbor or was because the way we ended was amicable, and that I thought we were gonna remain friends or have like um, you know, a relationship, even at a distance that was of respect and um love.
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But um, when you realize that person is actually the storm, um, it's pretty, it's pretty altering.
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But it is also kind of freeing.
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So especially when you already break up with them and you feel guilty and you feel all these emotions, and then when you find this out, it's almost validating because you're like, well, I obviously made the right choice.
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The universe is looking out for me.
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Um, why the same time of year did this happen?
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I don't know.
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It was around one of my good friend's birthdays.
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She found out about this the same day two years ago on her birthday.
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So it was really weird.
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Um, the brain stores trauma in time stamps.
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And unless someone does the deep internal work to break their loops, they'll default to the same dopamine-seeking behaviors when that season rolls around.
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So that very well need be a subconscious cause or or reason behind that, but um, it's a physiological default.
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And, you know, you can't you can't nurse a relationship back to health if the other person is still actively picking at the stitches.
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And I think my ex was just constantly picking up the stitches.
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I'm not gonna get into details of who this person was, what was said, what he said or what he did, but it was very jarring, it was very hurtful, and I think having a really strange intuition is kind of what's led me throughout my life.
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And because I had already ended the relationship, it felt more hollow.
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And I already had the proof, and finding out the truth after I walked away was almost a gift, even though it also felt like a curse, because you do kind of feel like what is wrong with me?
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But it proved that my intuition was working even when my heart was trying to negotiate.
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And it's a strange feeling to be proven right after someone um after it's it's it's a strange feeling to be proven right about someone after you've closed the door.
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Um, even though maybe you didn't expect it.
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It wasn't necessarily on my bingo card, I would I would say, but so I would say I used to hate the phrase like once a cheater, always a cheater, because I don't, I didn't I didn't agree.
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I felt like I was living proof of that, that I was able to be in a relationship that was healthy and full of love and um care.
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And you know, he was thoughtful and he was had great acts of service and like all of that.
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Like I thought that was really cynical, but now I almost see it as like a diagnostic tool.
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It's it's not about judging their past, it's about protecting your future, and it's about recognizing that character is a persistent pattern, not just an isolated incident.
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So I think once you cheat, I think you're capable of doing it again.
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Doesn't necessarily mean you will.
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I think people can change if the stakes are high enough, if it means enough to them.
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I think there are so many reasons for the way that people function.
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And, you know, I would say if someone cheats on you and you're in a relationship and you have no other ties, it's probably best to walk away.
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If you're married with kids and you have an indiscretion, that's where a bigger conversation has to happen.
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So, like Esther Perel said, when she's always asked, what is your is cheating good or bad?
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She says yes.
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And I would say I still believe that, but I'm also a little bit more pessimistic now.
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So I do think that there is just there are some people who just can't help it, and it it's in their nature, and it it just says more about them than anyone that they're hurting, and they're missing something, there's a lack of something there.
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So luckily, I had moved on, I'm preparing for my next chapter, and I'm definitely doing it with a lighter suitcase and less baggage, and I'm no longer the manager of someone else's integrity.
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So if you are in that two-month mark or that two-year mark and you feel like you've wasted your time, stop because you didn't waste your time.
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You gathered data and you proved you're capable of radical love, and it's time to give that love back to yourself.
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And starting over isn't a failure, it's a sign that you're brave enough to demand a higher standard of care for your life because you're in charge of your own peace and your own path.
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And there are people who they there are people who can be good people and still do bad things, but it you have to take it upon yourself to see if you're worth risking it's worth the risk to, you know, be there and go through that.
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Like, is it worth it?
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Is it worth your time and your energy and your emotions and all of that?
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Um I'll obviously be interviewing more people who have experienced getting cheated on or maybe have done the cheating, but everyone's stories are slightly different.
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Everyone handles it differently.
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It's it's just a it's a topic that I initially wanted to discuss after this breakup that I had initially.
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And my friend came to me and she said, you know what?
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It would be great if you made an episode about how couples get back together and it actually works.
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And I was like, Yes, amazing.
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I'm gonna do that.
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And if I had recorded the episode a couple of years ago, which is when I was, you know, intending to, I would have probably had to re-record a new one, uh, kind of being like, just kidding.
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Uh I it happened again, so never mind.
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But I think the really the biggest thing is is when people show you who they are, you should believe them.
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And how they show up for you after really matters.
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And that's kind of why my relationship even ended to begin with, because this person didn't show up for me in the way he needed to.
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So it's basically the hope isn't that they will change, the hope is that you already have.
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And it's it's a really hard thing to be betrayed in a way that's just that's emotional or sexual.
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Whether it's emotional cheating or sexual cheating or both.
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In my case, it was sort of both.
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And I didn't want to know details.
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I know some people want to know details.
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I mean, I got details the second time, but the first time I didn't really want to know who the person was.
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I knew she was completely opposite of me in pretty much every way.
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I heard she was friends of a friend.
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You know, I didn't really want to know specifics.
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And I only found out later when I felt like I was in a stable place to do that.
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And, you know, I I felt I felt like knowing that information after a certain point was okay.
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And I accepted it.
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And it also weirdly didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, which probably says more about my relationship than anything, and probably says how much it numbed me after a while.
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I think everyone handles things differently.
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Some people take their partner back after cheating many, many times.
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And I think that's something that's really like a self-worth issue more than anything.
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I did get a lot of judgment for giving my ex a second chance the first time.
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Um, you know, friends are very protective.
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I have the most amazing group of friends ever.
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And sometimes friends see things that you don't.
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And, you know, I will say, like a lot of my friends did like my ex and they did accept him back, but I had a few who were just absolutely never going to accept him as being good enough.
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And it turns out in the end, he just wasn't, and he wasn't my person.
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And I think my person wouldn't betray me like that and make me feel like that.
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And even if this person cheats on you while you're away or cheats on you while you're in the same place, the pain is still the same.
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It's still betrayal.
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And there's so many layers to it because obviously people can go straight to feeling what is what is it about me that made them do this?
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Why like they go to instantly to self-blame, but it's never about the person that's cheated on, it's always about the cheater.
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Um because self-sabotage is a huge part of cheating and why it happens and fear behind, you know, let me get ahead of possibly messing this up.
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I'll just get ahead of it before I can get hurt.
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There's so many different reasons as to why.
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Um, you know, some people emotionally cheat and and their partners think that's worse than sexually cheating.
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And in some cases, that can be true.
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Some people have a sexual affair and want to know every detail.
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What did you do with them?
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Like, what positions did you do?
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Tell me everything they said to you.
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Like, do you love them?
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All of that, which is fair.
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I think the person is entitled to know as little or as much as they want.
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Um, everyone is different, like I said.
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Betrayal lands differently for different people.
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And I feel like we just have to be gentle with ourselves when this kind of thing happens.
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Um I think the first time it happened, I really genuinely talked to my ex at nauseum for hours on end about this and like making the decision even to get back together and how it wasn't done lightly.
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Like, we I kind of made him work for it.
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We weren't necessarily like boyfriend and girlfriend right away.
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And um, I know he felt bad, and I know he felt guilty, and I know he ended up confessing everything to his family and his friends and all of that.
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And I really felt like he earned this chance and he showed up for me.
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However, a year and a half later, two years later, I guess, um, we were back right there again, but this time not together and not speaking.
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And while I'm recording this episode, he has no idea that I even know that he cheated again.
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Um, I haven't confronted him yet.
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I've been dealing with some other things, so I've kind of my bandwidth is pretty low, and I just am kind of taking my time to let it sink in.
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And yeah, I think I don't think anyone knows about this affair that he had, besides maybe one other person.
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And I don't think he's told anyone else, like his family and his friends, like he did the first time.
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Um I don't think that my ex has enough respect for me to be monogamous, but I don't think that means he doesn't care about me in his own weird way.
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Um you know you just want to be you want to be chosen.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.880
Everyone wants to be chosen.
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:45.279
I think there's just always a deeper rooted issue as to why someone betrays you and does something like cheating.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:56.559
And that could be childhood trauma, that could be sexual addiction, that can be crying out for attention from their partner.
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.599
Um, it could be just so many things.
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:10.480
I think like there are reasons people cheat that almost make more sense, but in any case, I I don't condone it.
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.640
I don't think it's something people should do.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:14.559
I don't think it's appropriate.
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:19.599
I think if you're the other woman, I don't think that's appropriate either.
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:25.920
I think as someone who has a lot of self-control and willpower, you can always say no.
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:38.160
And even when feelings are involved and someone's in love with the person, there still has to be self-restraint.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:53.759
And I do appreciate that this girl told me that even though it was pretty it was pretty, it was pretty loaded.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:55.440
I was in shock.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:03.279
I hadn't even seen the message for about a month, and it didn't come at a good time.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:18.160
It was really just probably the worst timing, but I did appreciate that she felt the need to tell me because I wouldn't have known otherwise.
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.880
Like I actually did ask my ex when we were breaking up if he had cheated on me again and he lied.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:31.599
So you know I felt a little foolish.
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:35.519
Um, but also I'm just kind of embarrassed for the both of them.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:40.240
I think it's just kind of pathetic.
00:30:41.359 --> 00:31:19.759
And I feel like especially if one person doesn't have feelings and they really care about their their actual partner, and there definitely needs to be some more self-restraint there, and and I mean, in some ways, I should have been more proactive with my partner to get therapy after he did it the first time because he said he would, and he started and then he didn't, and I think that's really where things went wrong.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:38.079
And I think he could have been a much different and more caring person in the ways that matter for a relationship by then, if he had actually, you know, um worked on it and and been there.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:32:06.160
Um yeah, so this episode turned out to be completely different than what it was supposed to be, and it's my first time kind of opening up and sharing a story about myself in a really raw way, but I felt like it was important, and that's the point of this podcast.
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:26.000
And I just hope if other people are hearing this and listening and know that they're not alone and that it does get better, and you're gonna meet people who change your life.
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:37.039
Some people are there for a reason, a season, you know, or a lifetime, and I think other people come into your life when they're supposed to, and the universe works in very mysterious way ways.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:43.200
And I really believe that everything happens for a reason.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:59.440
And finding out about this second affair was sort of the straw that I needed to break the camel's back.
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:09.119
Like I needed this final string to be able to be to cut from him and not actually.
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:13.039
I don't even need we don't need to be friends, we don't need to talk.
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:22.240
Um I've moved on and I just feel sort of at peace about that in some way.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:37.519
So I just want the listeners to know that it does get better and it is painful, but it it says nothing about your worth.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:34:05.359
And if you know this episode resonated with you, or if you're going through your own breakup or cheating scandal or anything like that, um, or having moved to a new city and are scared and don't know what to do, you can always DM me on Instagram, Headcase Podcast.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:13.039
And if you'd like to come on the podcast and share your story, we'd love to hear and love to hear your story and hear from you.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:27.519
And I really appreciate the vulnerability of the headcase community that I've built over years, and I know I've been on a very long hiatus, but we're back in action.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:32.239
And, you know, thank you for being here with me for this relaunch.
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:39.920
And we're going to get through this messy parts of life together, one clinical takeaway and one human experience at a time.
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.199
So um, I'll see you guys on the next episode.
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:50.719
Keep your head up, and this is Headcase.
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:52.960
Thank you.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.119
Join our community.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:02.400
Subscribe now to Headcase because breaking the stigma around mental health, that's something we should do together.
00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:07.919
Welcome back to Headcase.
00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.439
I'm Stephanie Hoffman.
00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:13.359
This season we're getting real about the messiest parts of being human.
00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:14.800
Let's dive in.
00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:18.079
Hi everyone, and welcome back to Headcase.
00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:21.839
Today I'm gonna be doing a solo episode.
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:32.320
And I just want to start by saying I've been wanting to record an episode like this for a long time.
00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:40.960
And a lot happened and changed that I guess I was supposed to wait until now to do it.
00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:52.000
Um, so basically, we move for love because we believe a change in scenery will finally match the life we've been trying to build.
00:00:53.119 --> 00:01:00.320
I moved to LA with a suitcase and full of hope and a heart that was ready for a success story.
00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:08.159
Um, but what happens when that baggage that you're carrying isn't even yours?
00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:15.200
So I finished nursing school, and as a nurse, I know the clinical impact of stress.
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:17.040
Moving is at the top of the list.
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:23.200
In a new city, your partner becomes basically your entire social safety net and you're vulnerable.
00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:28.959
So I moved to LA, I got my own place.
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:36.640
Two months into the LA dream, I found out that my ex had cheated on me.
00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.480
And I didn't find out initially.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:42.159
First, we broke up.
00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:51.359
Two weeks go by with no talking, and I find out that he cheated and he was upfront about it.
00:01:51.680 --> 00:02:03.040
Um I remember feeling a specific heat and coldness in my limbs.
00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.799
Um and I asked him why.
00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:15.520
Um and we just talked for a really, really long time.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:35.680
And I started analyzing him from almost a therapist or a clinical perspective about why he did it, what caused him to do it, what about our relationship made this happen?
00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.479
Has he ever done it before?
00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:46.560
And I didn't want to know who the person was at the time, but I just wanted to know why.
00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:51.360
And I think everyone handles the this news differently.
00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:55.599
Some people, you know, throw things at their partner, some people yell and scream.
00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:03.280
I definitely cried, but I just really wanted to understand what the thought process was behind this.
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:12.479
And, you know, if it was someone that he really felt like he needed to be with instead of me.
00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:20.080
And that wasn't the case, but it still happened.
00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:31.599
Um, I then took more time and told myself, you know, it's great that he actually took the initiative to own up to me about it.
00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:38.719
He was honest, he was raw, he told me everything.
00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:48.879
He he said, you know, he thought he was in love and it was a whirlwind, and it was just very secret, and no one knew about it, and all of that.
00:03:49.199 --> 00:04:02.479
And I just listened, and obviously being in love and being so vulnerable in this new place that I had just arrived in and hadn't even had a job yet.
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.599
I haven't even hadn't even found my first nursing job.
00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:08.400
It was just such a vulnerable position.
00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:30.160
And we had been just officially dating for a few months, but had kind of an open relationship before that, in which I was completely faithful and didn't use that openness to explore other people.
00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:41.839
So I basically we kind of got back together, kind of didn't.
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:53.839
He turned out to be uh, you know, afraid to kind of the classic, like, I don't want to hurt you, you deserve better kind of thing.
00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:08.240
And then so we were broken up for about three months, and then he came back and he was like, I want this, I'm gonna change, like I will do anything it takes, and um really put himself out there.
00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:14.959
So at that point, I had contemplated so many things leading up to this.
00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:36.399
I mean on went on many walks, I thought about what it would be like if I just got on a plane and went home, or if I stayed in LA, or if I, you know, just got my own place officially and just made made it my home.
00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:42.639
So because he wasn't the full reason I moved there, I decided to stay.
00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:52.079
And I went on a few dates and I tried to see what life was like without him in the picture.
00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:57.920
And it was okay, you know, it's still raw, and you still have feelings for this person.
00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:04.240
I listened to many books on cheating, love attachment, all of those things.
00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:29.279
And um, I read a particular book by Esther Perrell that really opened my eyes to cheating and how it is not black and white, and people have different reasons for cheating, and sometimes it brings people together and sometimes it tears them apart, and it it isn't always the ultimate betrayal.
00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:47.759
And the book really resonated with me, but I think I I obviously wanted to be at this point before he came back the exception to the rule.
00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:55.600
I wanted to prove that if you love someone through their worst mistake, you earn the best version of themselves.
00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:04.879
And you know, he did come back and we got back together, and I was completely fine.
00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:08.560
I honestly didn't even really think about the cheating very much.
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.480
I fully put my trust in him.
00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:15.199
I'm not someone who's very jealous, so I just kind of like let him do his thing.
00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:17.120
If you went out, he came back.
00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:21.360
We had open communication, I never checked phones.
00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:29.120
I am a very secure person, so I just kind of said to myself, if you did it again, it would be done.
00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:30.959
So who cares?
00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:36.240
And throughout a relationship, you know, we were fine.
00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:53.360
It was moving forward, but I didn't even, I didn't really, I didn't really want to still know about this girl, but I eventually did find out who she was and their whole story.
00:07:53.439 --> 00:08:09.600
And that's when more kind of lies came out, and more information about other people came out that wasn't necessarily cheating, but just information you don't want to hear, um, you know, while you're broken up or while you were in an open relationship, things like that.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:27.759
And we were going along and till about last week when I uh found out that um it happened again.
00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:33.200
Same pattern, same season, almost exactly two years later.
00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:53.679
Um, so yes, initially I was going to make this episode about how couples can work through anything, which I don't wholly disagree with, but finding out it happened again in the same season, the marker, both times I had not been yet in the city or I had been away.
00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:59.679
This time I was home helping my family for about four and a half months.
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:08.480
And I yeah, I think everything changed when I found that out.
00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:22.559
The actual kicker is I had broken up with him already in November and for completely other reasons, which was that you know our relationship just wasn't progressing.
00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:27.039
I think we had we're on a different path.
00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:29.440
We were on different paths.
00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:44.399
We had a lot of differences that I think were showing through, and I just didn't feel like it was right anymore.
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.240
And I didn't really want to be in LA anymore.
00:09:48.960 --> 00:10:07.440
And he helped me move out of my apartment, he was super helpful and all of this, but again, up until last week, I had no idea until I was confronted by the girl he cheated on me with, which was a different person than the first time.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:15.919
And that kind of changed everything, and I realized I was dealing with a huge mistake and I was dealing with a blueprint.
00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:28.720
And I think because I had moved on, the feelings were different than they would have been the first time than they were the first time.
00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:38.240
I felt a betrayal in a way that I couldn't really explain.
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:46.320
It was like when your best friend does something to hurt you, or just when someone is just not who you thought they were.
00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:52.000
Um, because after all of that, my friends embraced him.
00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:55.600
Um, you know, he got back into everyone's good graces.
00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:00.240
Like I really felt comfortable and secure at that point.
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:05.360
Like, didn't even, I don't know, I didn't the cheating the first time almost I almost forgot about it.
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:11.759
And then when I found this out, I initially cried because it was just shocking.
00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:29.200
And I felt like why be in a relationship if you're even close to the point where you want to stray?
00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:35.679
Because I'm an extremely loyal person and I have never cheated, and I don't understand it.
00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:48.399
I mean, I'm now understanding it more because I've been reading about it, but I don't really I think it's a choice you make, and then you know, the person who cheats or you cheat with are both guilty.
00:11:48.720 --> 00:12:01.840
And this person happened to tell me very specific and intimate details, which if I was in a different place in my life, I had been less strong and resilient hearing those things.
00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:11.679
Um, but you know, it has been a hard week and a half, so I was I'm still strong and resilient.
00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:13.759
So I was able to handle it.
00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:33.360
There was a part of me, because we had already broken up that just was felt sorry for him and was like, I'm sorry that this person is so broken that they feel like they have to do that, and um genuinely that there's just something wrong.
00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:48.639
So that leads me to kind of a clinical corner of the episode where um in nursing we distinguish between acute and chronic.
00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:56.399
You know, the first affair was an acute injury, basically, and the second it becomes like a chronic condition.
00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:03.600
So when betrayal happens, your amygdala, the fire alarm of your brain, goes into overdrive.
00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:08.720
And finding out it happened again causes a state of bilateral alarm.
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:30.080
So your brain realizes the person is the person who's supposed to be your safe harbor or was because the way we ended was amicable, and that I thought we were gonna remain friends or have like um, you know, a relationship, even at a distance that was of respect and um love.
00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:40.879
But um, when you realize that person is actually the storm, um, it's pretty, it's pretty altering.
00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.240
But it is also kind of freeing.
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:56.399
So especially when you already break up with them and you feel guilty and you feel all these emotions, and then when you find this out, it's almost validating because you're like, well, I obviously made the right choice.
00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:58.480
The universe is looking out for me.
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.519
Um, why the same time of year did this happen?
00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:04.639
I don't know.
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.679
It was around one of my good friend's birthdays.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:13.200
She found out about this the same day two years ago on her birthday.
00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:14.799
So it was really weird.
00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:19.440
Um, the brain stores trauma in time stamps.
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:28.720
And unless someone does the deep internal work to break their loops, they'll default to the same dopamine-seeking behaviors when that season rolls around.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:40.320
So that very well need be a subconscious cause or or reason behind that, but um, it's a physiological default.
00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:48.879
And, you know, you can't you can't nurse a relationship back to health if the other person is still actively picking at the stitches.
00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:54.000
And I think my ex was just constantly picking up the stitches.
00:14:54.559 --> 00:15:24.960
I'm not gonna get into details of who this person was, what was said, what he said or what he did, but it was very jarring, it was very hurtful, and I think having a really strange intuition is kind of what's led me throughout my life.
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:32.799
And because I had already ended the relationship, it felt more hollow.
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:50.720
And I already had the proof, and finding out the truth after I walked away was almost a gift, even though it also felt like a curse, because you do kind of feel like what is wrong with me?
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:56.399
But it proved that my intuition was working even when my heart was trying to negotiate.
00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:07.919
And it's a strange feeling to be proven right after someone um after it's it's it's a strange feeling to be proven right about someone after you've closed the door.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.919
Um, even though maybe you didn't expect it.
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:25.759
It wasn't necessarily on my bingo card, I would I would say, but so I would say I used to hate the phrase like once a cheater, always a cheater, because I don't, I didn't I didn't agree.
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:34.000
I felt like I was living proof of that, that I was able to be in a relationship that was healthy and full of love and um care.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:41.200
And you know, he was thoughtful and he was had great acts of service and like all of that.
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:49.279
Like I thought that was really cynical, but now I almost see it as like a diagnostic tool.
00:16:49.440 --> 00:17:02.799
It's it's not about judging their past, it's about protecting your future, and it's about recognizing that character is a persistent pattern, not just an isolated incident.
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.759
So I think once you cheat, I think you're capable of doing it again.
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:09.839
Doesn't necessarily mean you will.
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:20.319
I think people can change if the stakes are high enough, if it means enough to them.
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:27.680
I think there are so many reasons for the way that people function.
00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:40.000
And, you know, I would say if someone cheats on you and you're in a relationship and you have no other ties, it's probably best to walk away.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:49.119
If you're married with kids and you have an indiscretion, that's where a bigger conversation has to happen.
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:56.160
So, like Esther Perel said, when she's always asked, what is your is cheating good or bad?
00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:57.759
She says yes.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:06.799
And I would say I still believe that, but I'm also a little bit more pessimistic now.
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:30.880
So I do think that there is just there are some people who just can't help it, and it it's in their nature, and it it just says more about them than anyone that they're hurting, and they're missing something, there's a lack of something there.
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:55.279
So luckily, I had moved on, I'm preparing for my next chapter, and I'm definitely doing it with a lighter suitcase and less baggage, and I'm no longer the manager of someone else's integrity.
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:09.119
So if you are in that two-month mark or that two-year mark and you feel like you've wasted your time, stop because you didn't waste your time.
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:22.240
You gathered data and you proved you're capable of radical love, and it's time to give that love back to yourself.
00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:42.720
And starting over isn't a failure, it's a sign that you're brave enough to demand a higher standard of care for your life because you're in charge of your own peace and your own path.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:20:07.519
And there are people who they there are people who can be good people and still do bad things, but it you have to take it upon yourself to see if you're worth risking it's worth the risk to, you know, be there and go through that.
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:08.799
Like, is it worth it?
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:14.079
Is it worth your time and your energy and your emotions and all of that?
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:25.519
Um I'll obviously be interviewing more people who have experienced getting cheated on or maybe have done the cheating, but everyone's stories are slightly different.
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.079
Everyone handles it differently.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:40.720
It's it's just a it's a topic that I initially wanted to discuss after this breakup that I had initially.
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.200
And my friend came to me and she said, you know what?
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:48.480
It would be great if you made an episode about how couples get back together and it actually works.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.559
And I was like, Yes, amazing.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:51.599
I'm gonna do that.
00:20:51.839 --> 00:21:04.000
And if I had recorded the episode a couple of years ago, which is when I was, you know, intending to, I would have probably had to re-record a new one, uh, kind of being like, just kidding.
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:08.240
Uh I it happened again, so never mind.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:18.799
But I think the really the biggest thing is is when people show you who they are, you should believe them.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:24.240
And how they show up for you after really matters.
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:33.200
And that's kind of why my relationship even ended to begin with, because this person didn't show up for me in the way he needed to.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:45.039
So it's basically the hope isn't that they will change, the hope is that you already have.
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:59.839
And it's it's a really hard thing to be betrayed in a way that's just that's emotional or sexual.
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.599
Whether it's emotional cheating or sexual cheating or both.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.079
In my case, it was sort of both.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.119
And I didn't want to know details.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:10.960
I know some people want to know details.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:16.960
I mean, I got details the second time, but the first time I didn't really want to know who the person was.
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.359
I knew she was completely opposite of me in pretty much every way.
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.880
I heard she was friends of a friend.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:30.319
You know, I didn't really want to know specifics.
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:34.640
And I only found out later when I felt like I was in a stable place to do that.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:48.640
And, you know, I I felt I felt like knowing that information after a certain point was okay.
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.880
And I accepted it.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:23:06.240
And it also weirdly didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, which probably says more about my relationship than anything, and probably says how much it numbed me after a while.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.440
I think everyone handles things differently.
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:14.799
Some people take their partner back after cheating many, many times.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:26.400
And I think that's something that's really like a self-worth issue more than anything.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:33.680
I did get a lot of judgment for giving my ex a second chance the first time.
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:36.960
Um, you know, friends are very protective.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.000
I have the most amazing group of friends ever.
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:43.039
And sometimes friends see things that you don't.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:55.920
And, you know, I will say, like a lot of my friends did like my ex and they did accept him back, but I had a few who were just absolutely never going to accept him as being good enough.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:01.839
And it turns out in the end, he just wasn't, and he wasn't my person.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:11.200
And I think my person wouldn't betray me like that and make me feel like that.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:19.680
And even if this person cheats on you while you're away or cheats on you while you're in the same place, the pain is still the same.
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:21.680
It's still betrayal.
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:36.960
And there's so many layers to it because obviously people can go straight to feeling what is what is it about me that made them do this?
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:48.720
Why like they go to instantly to self-blame, but it's never about the person that's cheated on, it's always about the cheater.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:24.319
Um because self-sabotage is a huge part of cheating and why it happens and fear behind, you know, let me get ahead of possibly messing this up.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.440
I'll just get ahead of it before I can get hurt.
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:30.400
There's so many different reasons as to why.
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:38.079
Um, you know, some people emotionally cheat and and their partners think that's worse than sexually cheating.
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:40.960
And in some cases, that can be true.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.680
Some people have a sexual affair and want to know every detail.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:47.359
What did you do with them?
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:49.519
Like, what positions did you do?
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:51.200
Tell me everything they said to you.
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:52.880
Like, do you love them?
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.240
All of that, which is fair.
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:01.119
I think the person is entitled to know as little or as much as they want.
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:04.000
Um, everyone is different, like I said.
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:08.480
Betrayal lands differently for different people.
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:20.240
And I feel like we just have to be gentle with ourselves when this kind of thing happens.
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:36.559
Um I think the first time it happened, I really genuinely talked to my ex at nauseum for hours on end about this and like making the decision even to get back together and how it wasn't done lightly.
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:39.119
Like, we I kind of made him work for it.
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:42.240
We weren't necessarily like boyfriend and girlfriend right away.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:54.160
And um, I know he felt bad, and I know he felt guilty, and I know he ended up confessing everything to his family and his friends and all of that.
00:26:54.400 --> 00:27:03.920
And I really felt like he earned this chance and he showed up for me.
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:18.559
However, a year and a half later, two years later, I guess, um, we were back right there again, but this time not together and not speaking.
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:25.119
And while I'm recording this episode, he has no idea that I even know that he cheated again.
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:27.759
Um, I haven't confronted him yet.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:42.720
I've been dealing with some other things, so I've kind of my bandwidth is pretty low, and I just am kind of taking my time to let it sink in.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:54.640
And yeah, I think I don't think anyone knows about this affair that he had, besides maybe one other person.
00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:00.960
And I don't think he's told anyone else, like his family and his friends, like he did the first time.
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:22.079
Um I don't think that my ex has enough respect for me to be monogamous, but I don't think that means he doesn't care about me in his own weird way.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:34.880
Um you know you just want to be you want to be chosen.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.880
Everyone wants to be chosen.
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:45.279
I think there's just always a deeper rooted issue as to why someone betrays you and does something like cheating.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:56.559
And that could be childhood trauma, that could be sexual addiction, that can be crying out for attention from their partner.
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.599
Um, it could be just so many things.
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:10.480
I think like there are reasons people cheat that almost make more sense, but in any case, I I don't condone it.
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.640
I don't think it's something people should do.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:14.559
I don't think it's appropriate.
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:19.599
I think if you're the other woman, I don't think that's appropriate either.
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:25.920
I think as someone who has a lot of self-control and willpower, you can always say no.
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:38.160
And even when feelings are involved and someone's in love with the person, there still has to be self-restraint.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:53.759
And I do appreciate that this girl told me that even though it was pretty it was pretty, it was pretty loaded.
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:55.440
I was in shock.
00:29:55.599 --> 00:30:03.279
I hadn't even seen the message for about a month, and it didn't come at a good time.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:18.160
It was really just probably the worst timing, but I did appreciate that she felt the need to tell me because I wouldn't have known otherwise.
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.880
Like I actually did ask my ex when we were breaking up if he had cheated on me again and he lied.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:31.599
So you know I felt a little foolish.
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:35.519
Um, but also I'm just kind of embarrassed for the both of them.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:40.240
I think it's just kind of pathetic.
00:30:41.359 --> 00:31:19.759
And I feel like especially if one person doesn't have feelings and they really care about their their actual partner, and there definitely needs to be some more self-restraint there, and and I mean, in some ways, I should have been more proactive with my partner to get therapy after he did it the first time because he said he would, and he started and then he didn't, and I think that's really where things went wrong.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:38.079
And I think he could have been a much different and more caring person in the ways that matter for a relationship by then, if he had actually, you know, um worked on it and and been there.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:32:06.160
Um yeah, so this episode turned out to be completely different than what it was supposed to be, and it's my first time kind of opening up and sharing a story about myself in a really raw way, but I felt like it was important, and that's the point of this podcast.
00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:26.000
And I just hope if other people are hearing this and listening and know that they're not alone and that it does get better, and you're gonna meet people who change your life.
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:37.039
Some people are there for a reason, a season, you know, or a lifetime, and I think other people come into your life when they're supposed to, and the universe works in very mysterious way ways.
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:43.200
And I really believe that everything happens for a reason.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:59.440
And finding out about this second affair was sort of the straw that I needed to break the camel's back.
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:09.119
Like I needed this final string to be able to be to cut from him and not actually.
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:13.039
I don't even need we don't need to be friends, we don't need to talk.
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:22.240
Um I've moved on and I just feel sort of at peace about that in some way.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:37.519
So I just want the listeners to know that it does get better and it is painful, but it it says nothing about your worth.
00:33:38.640 --> 00:34:05.359
And if you know this episode resonated with you, or if you're going through your own breakup or cheating scandal or anything like that, um, or having moved to a new city and are scared and don't know what to do, you can always DM me on Instagram, Headcase Podcast.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:13.039
And if you'd like to come on the podcast and share your story, we'd love to hear and love to hear your story and hear from you.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:27.519
And I really appreciate the vulnerability of the headcase community that I've built over years, and I know I've been on a very long hiatus, but we're back in action.
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:32.239
And, you know, thank you for being here with me for this relaunch.
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:39.920
And we're going to get through this messy parts of life together, one clinical takeaway and one human experience at a time.
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.199
So um, I'll see you guys on the next episode.
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:50.719
Keep your head up, and this is Headcase.
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:52.960
Thank you.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.119
Join our community.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:02.400
Subscribe now to Headcase because breaking the stigma around mental health, that's something we should do together.
