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[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Gravity Podcast, where we host conversations on developing a Christian spirituality, rooted in love, the Foster's resilient faith in everyday life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the last podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The last one, what are we talking about?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the last one.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, at some point, it's not going to be the last one.
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[SPEAKER_01]: but this is the last one that we've recorded.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but that's the computer listeners.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, now that we've had a chance to talk about it out, talk it out a bit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think everybody's on the same page.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There are more podcasts to come.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Let me try it again, Chrissy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the next podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Good job.
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[SPEAKER_01]: the next one in the chamber and you're listening to it right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm joined by Christy and I'm Matt and Ben is away on retreat this week.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We said something.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's at something called credo, which is an Episcopal deal job.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know much about it, but apparently it's like a very holistic 360 take care of your mind body soul.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I look forward to
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[SPEAKER_00]: He can come back and school us.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I do want to report.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's good.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we used to do what I did on my summer vacation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Did you ever have to give one of those reports in school?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, what did you do?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What was the best part, type thing?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Of your summer vacation?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I thought today, Christy, maybe because we're without Ben, that we can just do whatever we want.
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[SPEAKER_01]: the rules.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought we would play a game of 20 questions, but we probably won't get the 20, but we can take turns asking questions and then the other person has to answer the question and then the other person can decide if they want the asker to answer it to.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's that's that's that's a is it gonna be like serious questions funny questions or a mix it'll be a mix Knowing me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay Always I've got a couple questions in mind, but who knows what'll pop into my head as we talk?
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[SPEAKER_01]: All right Great and I'm here for it and you you also get a chance to ask questions.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I know you have a couple Ready so you won't be the first I Do but
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[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are you a pumpkin spice fan?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I need more time than our podcast.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Silence.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, no.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this is a Starbucks trap.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Are you talking about the lots of days?
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but like here's the deal.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is just.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to be real frank and honest with you, okay?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Please find the Josh Johnson is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: the artist of the media.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That guy, not Jack Johnson.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Josh.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Josh.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He did this whole thing about how like white people really like pumpkin spice stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was pretty funny.
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[SPEAKER_00]: He's a piece of fun.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have he's so funny.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But like that was something I was unaware of for like different
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[SPEAKER_00]: ethnicities and how they feel about pumpkin spice stuff that now I'm like oh it's like a white thing I think it's a white thing yeah and I kind of felt a little bit embarrassed and so then I literally asked some of my friends like what what are things that are like fall that are non-white things and they do not have something they were like the whole fall season is white and I just learned that
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, I, anyway, that's nothing to do with the questions that we had, but I, I feel like listener, you probably can continue to teach me, I, there's stuff I still have to learn to be sensitive, honestly, about different ethnicities and my excitement for fall and pumpkin things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's a very white thing, though, to do, right, to claim an entire season and then black people just have one history month.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They get their history month and then we get a, we get a whole season.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm learning friends.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for your grace.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think I do like pumpkin spice, but I like it in things other than lattes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I like it in cookie pie and pie.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we digress.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But here we go.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's ask our questions.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Here's my first question.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about being white?
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, my first question is, tell me, tell me the most memorable thing you did over the summer.
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[SPEAKER_00]: As a good one.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that sticks out in my head, my first thought is that,
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[SPEAKER_00]: My family, we did a road trip, and we went to the Grand Teton's Yellowstone in Glacier National Park.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we all were in a car, and we drove, and it was like a very long trip, and it was awesome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And there was one particular day that we were in the T-tons.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And my daughter was on Instagram.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, oh my gosh, we have to stop at this place.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we have to do this cliff jumping thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was not on our quote unquote schedule.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like it wasn't what we had planned.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Paul and I had like a whole schedule.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't planned.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we go to the parking area, we actually had to wait like an hour and a half to park.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was ridiculous.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But we ended up doing it and then hiked maybe two miles to this rock where I guess people know that you like cliff jump into this lake.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we all did it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And right
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[SPEAKER_00]: that like literally came up the path and we were like, oh my gosh, and so got pictures of it, and it was like this a moment, this memorable thing of just everybody being adventurous, jumping off this cliff, being together, seeing wildlife, it was awesome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, it's probably one of my favorite memories of the whole summer.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be mine, but I definitely want to know what yours is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know you said we can pick if the other person answers, but I definitely want to know.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mode my grass.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It cannot be yours.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I reject that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember it though.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's the problem.
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[SPEAKER_01]: A man in my condition has to just be thankful that they can remember something from the past.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so my most memorable thing from the summer was we didn't do much traveling because I.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We decided not to take a vacation in the summer because including last weekend when you're in New York City,
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm going to Patagonia for two weeks.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so fun.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then, and then as a family, we're taking a spring break trip to Puerto Rico.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and that's all before April.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, just a lot of traveling.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but last week I went to New York City to do a wedding.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And while we were there, um, very much like your daughter, which one was it, Kira?
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[SPEAKER_01]: or Bri.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Kira, yep.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Kira.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So my daughter, CC, found a pizza place in Times Square on TikTok and was like, we got to go to this place.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a viral.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It went viral.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, we'll get there early and we ate at this pizza place that was an old church that this Italian woman kind of purchased and then turned into a pizza place.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was great pizza at a great time and CC puts it up on her.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She has like a teen private Instagram account.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she put it up on there and her friends were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then one friend was helped her realize that that wasn't the viral pizza place.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She had confused it with another.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it was a great time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's hilarious.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's pretty funny.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe she'll make a pizza place viral now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe even her and her 17 friends that she's
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that was probably because that just happened last weekend and that was a we we did like fun New York City stuff one day and then we did like up in the Catskill mountains for the wedding and then yeah it was just it was a great time so that's probably that's a good that's technically after Labor Day, but the summer was pretty chill.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's my that's my question what's okay it's your turn to ask question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, here's my question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to help me, but I'm, I'm doing the class that you're teaching right now, uh, Jesus.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have some women?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Power.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's so good listeners.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can, I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You should be in it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Come to an end.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you can also, you can, you can access it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're recording it and you can access it on gravity.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Common stock comma slash community.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you said something.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to tell me the exact quote, but you said something like a characteristic of somebody who maybe is a good leader in power is somebody who allows or empowers people to walk into the room to be fully themselves.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember what you said?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're talking about power and we're using some definitions and some categories from a book, which I've got right here, it's called Beyond Inclusion Beyond Empowerment, a developmental strategy to liberate everyone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And in that book, they define power as the human capacity to move out in the world, so it's your will, your wisdom, your agency, your capital.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And they make the point that power is concommit or inherent with what it means to be human.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So every human has the capacity and capability to be powerful.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so power then isn't something we own, but it's something we tap into it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So they really have a more spiritual understanding of power that I think fits well and to our understanding of like the fruit of the spirit or something like that, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So in the book they talk about characteristics of a powerful person,
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[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the characteristics of a powerful person is that is what you're referring to when they walk into the room, everyone's best self can come forward.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That gripped me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when I walk into the room, any room, my dining room table, where all my kids are, my staff meeting that I lead on Monday mornings, the congregation that I get to be a part of and preach, do I actually help everybody bring their best self forward?
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[SPEAKER_00]: That was really powerful.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know how like a certain thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a kyros, like certain things like stand out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's something I've been chewing on as to like, what does it actually look like to be intentional in that way?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess that's kind of my question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you think it looks like for you and your life to help bring other people's best self forward in every room you walk into?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a deeply personal question, meaning I think it matters who we are, what room or in, who else is in the room, who designed or is in charge of the room, you know, all that matters in this question.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So another way to say this is,
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[SPEAKER_01]: the way I answer this question, Chrissy, maybe different than the way you do.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because of, you know, gender and those kinds of things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things that occurs to me is that leaders can either, and I'm putting this starkly, because this isn't a strict binary,
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[SPEAKER_01]: But for clarity sake, just, um, leaders can either take up space or create and hold space.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think one of the things that I've learned to reckon with and acknowledge is that for a whole host of reasons,
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[SPEAKER_01]: including demographic reasons, social occasion reasons, my institutional position and various things I inhabit, that I take up space just being present somewhere in most spaces.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have to actively work.
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[SPEAKER_01]: to create space or hold space for others.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting because I think the reason that you said it's deeply personal, I would also argue it's deeply spiritual.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And here's why, at least for me, I've been chewing on this for like two weeks now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: that I think you're right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We can either empower create space or we can take it up.
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[SPEAKER_00]: For me, there is a lot of entanglement of taking up space with pride, with proving, with kind of junk rather than living.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so there is, I'm just noticing that in myself of like places that I take up space rather than freely give it or empower other people, there's stuff underneath the surface that I need to unearth that often involves confession of pride and believing that I need to earn something or prove something or whatever.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so, um,
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[SPEAKER_00]: it's a it's a deeply spiritual challenge that I think I'm walking through right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think that is?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think there is pride and taking up space?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that a challenge for you?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'd
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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I think because it seems as though Jesus in the gospels often is empowering other people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I just have been convicted that there are a lot of my life has been, uh, I want the space for myself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds so ugly, but like, it's true.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I believe the lie that my value is dependent on the space that I'm taking up in the power that I have in those rooms rather than empowering other people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't think that that's the Jesus way.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What occurs to me as you say that, Christy, thank you for sharing that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But occurs to me as you say that is that like in your body there's some understanding of like power or authority or success that is the same thing as commanding space.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and being maybe recognized or acknowledged that you're the authority here or you're in charge here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's one of the reasons what we're doing this class and one of the challenges that I'm also facing is that I don't think that's, as you say, I don't think that's the way that Jesus embodies power.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's typically in our world, that's the way that we see power modeled and embodied and so we all compete in that power game.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that that power game has more to do with domination and control than it does love.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:13.597 --> 18:14.238
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
18:16.900 --> 18:17.080
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:17.560 --> 18:19.541
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just and one of the things go ahead.
18:20.622 --> 18:20.882
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.
18:21.563 --> 18:26.366
[SPEAKER_00]: I just was I think that there's there's place it's so interesting because even in the
18:28.113 --> 18:31.656
[SPEAKER_00]: as a woman, you're like, no, I want the world to be different.
18:31.896 --> 18:35.299
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like that competition against men.
18:35.559 --> 18:38.302
[SPEAKER_00]: So to speak, isn't there.
18:38.362 --> 18:55.556
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there is a justice piece of that that I think is like, what does it look like to actually empower the immigrant, the woman, the film, the blank, with whatever doesn't have that dominance and control
18:58.586 --> 19:05.668
[SPEAKER_00]: But then there's the flip side of why am, why am I doing that for myself?
19:07.068 --> 19:13.930
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's one thing to like extend and empower other people and I want to be about that.
19:14.210 --> 19:21.571
[SPEAKER_00]: But I find myself doing that for myself, which that is what I am convicted about.
19:21.591 --> 19:22.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
19:23.292 --> 19:23.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does.
19:28.010 --> 19:39.537
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that's emerging for me is that there are people who have a higher rank in any kind of space that we're in, you know, maybe they're able bodied or maybe they're they're not a child.
19:39.857 --> 19:42.339
[SPEAKER_01]: They're what we would call like an adult.
19:42.619 --> 19:44.020
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not a senior citizen, right?
19:44.080 --> 19:45.181
[SPEAKER_01]: They they're white.
19:45.541 --> 19:46.121
[SPEAKER_01]: They're male.
19:46.962 --> 19:48.222
[SPEAKER_01]: They're cisgendered, right?
19:49.183 --> 19:54.747
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's a different responsibility in spaces for people.
19:54.787 --> 19:56.968
[SPEAKER_01]: I just mentioned all my demographic, right?
19:57.909 --> 20:00.630
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a different responsibility for someone like me.
20:01.891 --> 20:07.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there is for somebody who doesn't check all those top of the hierarchy boxes.
20:09.650 --> 20:10.471
[SPEAKER_01]: in spaces.
20:11.631 --> 20:19.516
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm inhabiting a space and I'm, you know, you work free of the church and we're at a meeting.
20:21.417 --> 20:30.743
[SPEAKER_01]: Your options of how to show up and if you feel fully empowered in that meeting are limited by the way I operate.
20:41.250 --> 20:41.870
[SPEAKER_01]: then you do.
20:42.931 --> 21:00.541
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if I operate in a way that reinforces or relies on the competition hierarchy machine that you're talking about, you either are quiet and passive or you step into compete.
21:03.519 --> 21:03.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:04.179 --> 21:04.440
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:05.320 --> 21:15.607
[SPEAKER_01]: And and there are there's other options, Chrissy, like there, there's the option to subvert or critique or undermine the game that I'm playing.
21:17.028 --> 21:21.391
[SPEAKER_01]: But those options are costly for you.
21:21.812 --> 21:31.058
[SPEAKER_01]: He had there super costly and in often the juices and worth the squeeze, meaning somebody like me.
21:33.135 --> 21:37.217
[SPEAKER_01]: doesn't usually respond well when that happens.
21:37.318 --> 21:37.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
21:39.079 --> 21:48.985
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like we just get habituated and socialized into these roles that maintain these things.
21:49.585 --> 21:55.208
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they prey upon those things that already live in us like insecurity and pride.
21:56.869 --> 21:58.790
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we hit we play games with that, right?
22:02.815 --> 22:07.138
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the things I was referring to, and I said, like, I think it looks differently for me than it looks for you.
22:09.760 --> 22:09.980
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:10.020 --> 22:10.920
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just an example.
22:12.181 --> 22:12.882
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you agree with that?
22:12.922 --> 22:13.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense?
22:14.122 --> 22:14.383
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
22:14.763 --> 22:15.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely agree.
22:15.903 --> 22:19.166
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to give another example.
22:20.406 --> 22:20.607
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:20.667 --> 22:20.867
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
22:22.109 --> 22:42.973
[SPEAKER_01]: No, so like another example would be like, I'm at your house, which I've been at your house a dozen times and when it's me as a guest in your house and you and Paul are parenting your kids, it's flipped.
22:43.373 --> 22:44.974
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're the one in charge.
22:46.094 --> 22:48.434
[SPEAKER_01]: You have the responsibility I don't.
22:52.923 --> 23:08.055
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my options for how I show up there, how I interact there, are set, limited, bounded by you and Paul.
23:09.917 --> 23:10.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:12.359 --> 23:18.884
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but even in that, that's what I think that's what's so challenging about that statement of M.I.
23:18.964 --> 23:19.805
[SPEAKER_00]: empowering people
23:23.453 --> 23:44.089
[SPEAKER_00]: and in all of those situations, whether it's a staff room meeting or my dining room table at my house with my kids, and that is, I think, what keeps gripping my heart of every opportunity, every setting, every situation is a bit different, but the heartbeat is the same.
23:45.651 --> 23:53.398
[SPEAKER_00]: of how I think Jesus loved people and how I'm being challenged personally right now in that kind of situation to love people around me.
23:56.100 --> 24:08.752
[SPEAKER_01]: What just occurred to me as you were saying that is like let's just assume for the sake of this conversation that no no person is better
24:10.995 --> 24:18.001
[SPEAKER_01]: at being that kind of leader that empowers the people's best self to come forward, nobody's better at that than Jesus.
24:21.363 --> 24:21.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
24:22.965 --> 24:31.471
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think about the number of times,
24:42.998 --> 24:43.278
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah.
24:46.661 --> 24:49.182
[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't mean that he's not calling it forward.
24:50.003 --> 24:50.223
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
24:51.144 --> 24:51.404
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
24:52.345 --> 24:59.810
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the reason why I thought the reason why that came to mind for me is that it's easy for me.
25:01.885 --> 25:14.749
[SPEAKER_01]: to use the same logic that operates in the domination control hierarchy that you're talking about, that praise on your insecurity and inflamed your pride to use that same logic when it comes to love.
25:16.449 --> 25:28.972
[SPEAKER_01]: So then let's say you and I decide from this call where both convicted and feel compunction to go out and empower people to have their best self come forward and we do it at
25:31.318 --> 25:58.889
[SPEAKER_01]: and our kids are just rascals, you want to mean normal like they're okay normal like they're just they're just a cotton headed Navy Muggins and I think it's easy then for me to just internalize that as a failure like I obviously did not I obviously did not show up in a way that let Kira's best self come forward what's wrong with me and I think
26:01.552 --> 26:18.783
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the ways that love works is that it takes the human desire to control all things off the table as a mechanism for how to love people, how to care for people.
26:34.153 --> 26:46.035
[SPEAKER_01]: and people are free to go away sad and people are free to get really angry when we try to hold before them their hypocrisy.
26:47.695 --> 26:51.436
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's that's not my fault.
26:53.296 --> 26:55.157
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a deficiency in me.
27:04.205 --> 27:15.487
[SPEAKER_00]: So it does go back to kind of, yeah, like to what I was saying of holding space for myself, like wanting to have the power in the room myself.
27:17.225 --> 27:22.946
[SPEAKER_00]: and part of that has to do with the lie of believing that it has to do something with my value.
27:23.627 --> 27:28.628
[SPEAKER_00]: But the outcome also we can believe the lie that it has something to do with our value.
27:29.368 --> 27:35.710
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't, which is easy to say, but harder to live out, that really what we're
27:36.810 --> 27:44.313
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of encouraged by in watching the way of Jesus is just how He gives the opportunity.
27:44.353 --> 27:50.696
[SPEAKER_00]: He creates this space for people to be their best selves and it doesn't matter.
27:51.736 --> 27:57.599
[SPEAKER_00]: What happens in the end based on our value isn't determined by what happens.
27:57.779 --> 27:58.079
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that?
27:58.659 --> 27:59.800
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean that's what I hear you saying.
28:00.838 --> 28:18.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's hard, especially like where I'm, we keep, I'm using the, the arena or example of being a parent and it's so difficult to not assign our value to, to, to how our kids are functioning if they're regularly.
28:25.408 --> 28:27.410
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're struggling with self-image issues.
28:27.970 --> 28:32.393
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're struggling with behavior patterns or like compulsive behaviors.
28:33.294 --> 28:37.997
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they lack social awareness and emotional intelligence.
28:38.578 --> 28:45.963
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's any number of things, right, that we would choose to change about them or for them if we could.
28:47.364 --> 28:50.506
[SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like our best efforts are, you know,
28:55.972 --> 29:03.336
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I think what your naming is, I'm guessing the listener, I'm guessing listeners can relate to this.
29:03.536 --> 29:10.880
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's really hard not to ascribe value and worth to that.
29:12.280 --> 29:15.002
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, who else is to blame?
29:16.722 --> 29:21.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, especially in parenting, you're like, oh gosh, yeah, but it's not.
29:23.446 --> 29:23.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:25.472 --> 29:35.721
[SPEAKER_00]: That you guys, we could spend a whole three hours on this, but that is stuff that's been on my brain and kind of I've been chewing on.
29:37.223 --> 29:48.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think it may be, I don't know, I'm gonna just call an audible here and to say let's just stick on this question for a few more minutes and then we'll wrap up.
29:49.674 --> 29:49.934
[SPEAKER_01]: Because,
29:51.760 --> 30:06.929
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm gonna, I'm gonna end by reading all these characteristics, Christy, just because I think they're pretty powerful and, they're good, inspiring, but when they walk into the room, everyone's best self can come forward.
30:07.849 --> 30:09.870
[SPEAKER_01]: I think another artifact of that for me is,
30:24.984 --> 30:31.610
[SPEAKER_01]: to be okay.
30:32.011 --> 30:37.776
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, another way to say that is, I don't want to use anyone here.
30:39.477 --> 30:39.798
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
31:02.065 --> 31:16.931
[SPEAKER_01]: I think another challenge for me with this, when they walk into room, everyone's best self can come forward, is, and we're seeing this in this Jesus and one class, is often times it takes
31:26.975 --> 31:35.917
[SPEAKER_01]: am I the kind of person that is able to bear other people's pains and anxieties and brokenness and hurt?
31:37.538 --> 31:43.299
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do I feel the need to solve and fix and correct and challenge?
31:44.520 --> 31:45.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Like am I the kind of
31:56.709 --> 31:58.590
[SPEAKER_01]: Acceptance and welcome.
32:01.530 --> 32:16.014
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's part of being the kind of person where your best self can come forward is being the kind of person who can also manage themselves when you're not best self comes forward.
32:20.196 --> 32:24.197
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like almost like the real self has to come forward as well.
32:28.070 --> 32:42.322
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because, Chrissy, you know this, like, there's a, there's a lot of pressure, especially in Christian families or Christian environments for everyone to have their best self on display,
32:55.296 --> 33:04.259
[SPEAKER_01]: destructive because we're always pretending and we're never actually bringing who we are to other people.
33:07.199 --> 33:14.862
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think about that too, the the pressure that we feel to always have our best self on.
33:16.082 --> 33:19.743
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that especially for people like we're talking earlier,
33:20.957 --> 33:24.240
[SPEAKER_01]: who are not at the top of hierarchies that we have in our culture.
33:24.780 --> 33:28.724
[SPEAKER_01]: That's even more, there's even more pressure for that.
33:40.073 --> 33:42.335
[SPEAKER_00]: We're having some technical difficulties, Matt.
33:43.456 --> 33:46.058
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, I know, it's okay.
33:46.359 --> 33:47.640
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they caught what you said.
33:49.155 --> 33:58.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it will be uploaded, so it's being recorded, and it will be uploaded eventually, although I'm at 19% Christy, which is not good.
33:59.862 --> 34:02.184
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, I'm at 99% people.
34:02.284 --> 34:04.546
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, this is all on me.
34:06.367 --> 34:17.395
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, I'm just thinking like to summarize like sometimes the pressure to always be your best self can actually keep you from being your true self.
34:21.102 --> 34:47.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, well, maybe the challenge is like today, like to have eyes to notice as we walk into the room, what we're walking into and then and then what we're empowering and also what is motivating that I think all three of those things are important to pay attention to.
34:48.625 --> 34:48.865
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:49.966 --> 34:53.508
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and maybe by way of clothes, let me just read the rest of these.
34:56.371 --> 34:56.931
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do that.
34:56.951 --> 34:58.152
[SPEAKER_01]: You think that's cool?
34:58.672 --> 34:58.932
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
35:00.253 --> 35:00.473
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
35:00.493 --> 35:09.860
[SPEAKER_01]: So the characteristics of a powerful person, according to the book I mentioned earlier, they have equanimity, wisdom, and clarity.
35:16.699 --> 35:24.945
[SPEAKER_01]: they have unfathomable compassion, they can hold not just two sides of an issue, but many sides.
35:27.547 --> 35:32.530
[SPEAKER_01]: They use the idea of seven generations, and this is what they meet by seven generations.
35:33.111 --> 35:37.014
[SPEAKER_01]: They can think of seven generations ahead.
35:38.114 --> 35:40.056
[SPEAKER_01]: They can think of seven generations back.
35:47.470 --> 35:55.279
[SPEAKER_01]: seven levels of human evolution or development above themselves and seven levels below themselves.
35:57.902 --> 36:01.145
[SPEAKER_01]: When they walk into the room, everyone's best self can come forward.
36:02.867 --> 36:07.973
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you talk to them, you experience being totally accepted.
36:12.562 --> 36:36.214
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, that that seems like an impossible ideal when I read it like that, but the powerful thing for me, I don't know if you have any comments on this Chrissy, but the powerful thing for me, no pun intended, is that that is true power, not money, not weapons, not force,
36:40.534 --> 36:46.295
[SPEAKER_01]: But that kind of magnanimous, spacious person.
36:48.236 --> 36:49.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think we would call up.
36:51.737 --> 36:52.957
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, let's strike you.
36:54.537 --> 36:58.678
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it sounds so loving.
37:00.359 --> 37:01.979
[SPEAKER_00]: It is what we all long for.
37:02.479 --> 37:03.439
[SPEAKER_00]: It is what we want.
37:03.579 --> 37:07.640
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what's inside of us that like, I think we need
37:12.296 --> 37:14.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, called towards that.
37:15.398 --> 37:19.640
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, listen, hopefully the recording will be fine here.
37:20.081 --> 37:26.405
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at a 10% uploaded, so by hopefully by the time this podcast comes out, my recording is uploaded.
37:28.226 --> 37:29.486
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris, it was great to chat with you today.
37:30.687 --> 37:32.328
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we need to do this more often.
37:32.388 --> 37:35.530
[SPEAKER_00]: Although we need Ben back, so I'll have to do another one like this.
37:35.550 --> 37:38.212
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just ask each other questions and but involve Ben.
37:39.086 --> 37:42.427
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, stop at the second question whenever it's a good one.
37:43.388 --> 37:43.808
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
37:44.208 --> 37:45.849
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about 20 questions.
37:45.889 --> 37:47.949
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe two questions is good enough.
37:48.590 --> 37:49.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Two questions.
37:49.570 --> 37:50.931
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, listener until next week.
37:51.391 --> 37:51.691
[SPEAKER_01]: Peace.
37:58.308 --> 38:01.369
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Gravity Podcast.
38:01.409 --> 38:03.350
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're finding it helpful, please tell your friends about it.
38:03.670 --> 38:05.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Word of mouth is the best advertising.
38:06.572 --> 38:12.854
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38:13.455 --> 38:17.676
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38:17.817 --> 38:25.440
[SPEAKER_02]: It's free to join, and you can connect there with other listeners to the podcast to talk about faith, and spirituality, and whatever else comes up.
38:25.900 --> 38:30.225
[SPEAKER_02]: To join, go to gravitycommonz.com slash community.
38:30.865 --> 38:34.469
[SPEAKER_02]: Gravity podcast is produced by Ben Sternke and Matt Tabby.
38:34.930 --> 38:37.512
[SPEAKER_02]: Aaron Sternke edits and mixes the podcast.
38:37.612 --> 38:42.317
[SPEAKER_02]: You can check out his mixing engineering and production work at errandsternke.com.
38:42.996 --> 38:44.677
[SPEAKER_02]: Finally, we would love to hear from you.
38:45.198 --> 38:52.603
[SPEAKER_02]: To record a question or comment for us, you can go to gravitycomans.com slash message and click the start recording button.
38:53.083 --> 38:57.946
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also email us at podcast at gravitycomans.com.
38:58.587 --> 38:59.247
[SPEAKER_02]: Catch you next time.
00:08.910 --> 00:17.693
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Gravity Podcast, where we host conversations on developing a Christian spirituality, rooted in love, the Foster's resilient faith in everyday life.
00:27.036 --> 00:28.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the last podcast.
00:30.377 --> 00:32.138
[SPEAKER_00]: The last one, what are we talking about?
00:32.778 --> 00:34.039
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the last one.
00:35.559 --> 00:38.060
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, at some point, it's not going to be the last one.
00:39.218 --> 00:41.119
[SPEAKER_01]: but this is the last one that we've recorded.
00:42.800 --> 00:45.020
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but that's the computer listeners.
00:45.141 --> 00:48.402
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, now that we've had a chance to talk about it out, talk it out a bit.
00:49.142 --> 00:50.483
[SPEAKER_01]: I think everybody's on the same page.
00:51.423 --> 00:52.944
[SPEAKER_00]: There are more podcasts to come.
00:53.064 --> 00:53.684
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry.
00:53.824 --> 00:54.785
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me try it again, Chrissy.
00:55.465 --> 00:56.825
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the next podcast.
00:57.226 --> 00:59.086
[SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha.
00:59.106 --> 00:59.487
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
00:59.667 --> 01:00.127
[SPEAKER_00]: Good job.
01:00.605 --> 01:03.166
[SPEAKER_01]: the next one in the chamber and you're listening to it right now.
01:03.206 --> 01:07.669
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm joined by Christy and I'm Matt and Ben is away on retreat this week.
01:08.289 --> 01:09.630
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes.
01:09.870 --> 01:10.550
[SPEAKER_00]: We said something.
01:10.991 --> 01:15.673
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's at something called credo, which is an Episcopal deal job.
01:15.813 --> 01:26.559
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know much about it, but apparently it's like a very holistic 360 take care of your mind body soul.
01:28.720 --> 01:29.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I look forward to
01:31.530 --> 01:32.810
[SPEAKER_00]: He can come back and school us.
01:33.731 --> 01:35.091
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I do want to report.
01:36.852 --> 01:37.272
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
01:37.612 --> 01:38.472
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's good.
01:38.492 --> 01:41.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we used to do what I did on my summer vacation.
01:42.994 --> 01:45.095
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you ever have to give one of those reports in school?
01:46.495 --> 01:47.656
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, what did you do?
01:47.676 --> 01:49.476
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the best part, type thing?
01:49.656 --> 01:50.617
[SPEAKER_00]: Of your summer vacation?
01:51.597 --> 01:51.797
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:52.197 --> 01:52.357
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:53.037 --> 01:57.419
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I thought today, Christy, maybe because we're without Ben, that we can just do whatever we want.
01:59.074 --> 01:59.775
[SPEAKER_01]: the rules.
02:00.175 --> 02:00.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
02:00.736 --> 02:00.956
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:01.397 --> 02:18.955
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought we would play a game of 20 questions, but we probably won't get the 20, but we can take turns asking questions and then the other person has to answer the question and then the other person can decide if they want the asker to answer it to.
02:20.315 --> 02:20.836
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
02:20.876 --> 02:28.882
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's that's that's that's a is it gonna be like serious questions funny questions or a mix it'll be a mix Knowing me.
02:28.902 --> 02:35.488
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay Always I've got a couple questions in mind, but who knows what'll pop into my head as we talk?
02:35.828 --> 02:41.153
[SPEAKER_01]: All right Great and I'm here for it and you you also get a chance to ask questions.
02:41.173 --> 02:48.499
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you have a couple Ready so you won't be the first I Do but
02:49.559 --> 02:50.500
[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to know.
02:50.880 --> 02:52.441
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you a pumpkin spice fan?
02:56.183 --> 02:59.465
[SPEAKER_01]: I need more time than our podcast.
02:59.545 --> 03:00.205
[SPEAKER_01]: Silence.
03:00.245 --> 03:01.006
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, no.
03:02.307 --> 03:02.747
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't.
03:03.227 --> 03:04.968
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this is a Starbucks trap.
03:06.129 --> 03:07.230
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you talking about the lots of days?
03:07.270 --> 03:07.750
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's.
03:08.590 --> 03:09.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but like here's the deal.
03:10.071 --> 03:10.632
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just.
03:11.452 --> 03:13.894
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to be real frank and honest with you, okay?
03:14.174 --> 03:15.875
[SPEAKER_00]: Please find the Josh Johnson is.
03:16.886 --> 03:18.107
[SPEAKER_00]: the artist of the media.
03:18.888 --> 03:20.029
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, oh, yes.
03:20.169 --> 03:21.650
[SPEAKER_01]: That guy, not Jack Johnson.
03:21.910 --> 03:22.210
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
03:22.550 --> 03:23.231
[SPEAKER_01]: Josh.
03:23.351 --> 03:23.791
[SPEAKER_00]: Josh.
03:24.552 --> 03:24.732
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:24.792 --> 03:25.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
03:25.252 --> 03:30.957
[SPEAKER_00]: He did this whole thing about how like white people really like pumpkin spice stuff.
03:31.237 --> 03:31.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
03:31.677 --> 03:33.078
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was pretty funny.
03:33.579 --> 03:34.399
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a piece of fun.
03:34.459 --> 03:36.961
[SPEAKER_00]: I have he's so funny.
03:37.342 --> 03:41.405
[SPEAKER_00]: But like that was something I was unaware of for like different
03:42.425 --> 04:08.691
[SPEAKER_00]: ethnicities and how they feel about pumpkin spice stuff that now I'm like oh it's like a white thing I think it's a white thing yeah and I kind of felt a little bit embarrassed and so then I literally asked some of my friends like what what are things that are like fall that are non-white things and they do not have something they were like the whole fall season is white and I just learned that
04:13.432 --> 04:30.436
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I, anyway, that's nothing to do with the questions that we had, but I, I feel like listener, you probably can continue to teach me, I, there's stuff I still have to learn to be sensitive, honestly, about different ethnicities and my excitement for fall and pumpkin things.
04:30.476 --> 04:35.997
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a very white thing, though, to do, right, to claim an entire season and then black people just have one history month.
04:36.917 --> 04:39.878
[SPEAKER_01]: They get their history month and then we get a, we get a whole season.
04:41.491 --> 04:42.492
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know.
04:42.672 --> 04:43.533
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm learning friends.
04:43.593 --> 04:44.514
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for your grace.
04:44.994 --> 04:45.274
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
04:45.314 --> 04:52.921
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think I do like pumpkin spice, but I like it in things other than lattes.
04:54.783 --> 04:57.425
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like it in cookie pie and pie.
04:58.045 --> 04:58.266
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
04:58.486 --> 04:59.146
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
04:59.186 --> 04:59.306
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:59.326 --> 04:59.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
05:00.487 --> 05:00.668
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
05:01.428 --> 05:01.769
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
05:01.929 --> 05:02.749
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we digress.
05:02.789 --> 05:03.650
[SPEAKER_00]: But here we go.
05:03.690 --> 05:04.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's ask our questions.
05:05.111 --> 05:05.332
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
05:05.392 --> 05:06.493
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's my first question.
05:08.090 --> 05:09.230
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about being white?
05:09.271 --> 05:18.214
[SPEAKER_01]: No, my first question is, tell me, tell me the most memorable thing you did over the summer.
05:22.616 --> 05:23.336
[SPEAKER_00]: As a good one.
05:26.938 --> 05:31.480
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that sticks out in my head, my first thought is that,
05:32.588 --> 05:40.336
[SPEAKER_00]: My family, we did a road trip, and we went to the Grand Teton's Yellowstone in Glacier National Park.
05:41.317 --> 05:46.622
[SPEAKER_00]: And we all were in a car, and we drove, and it was like a very long trip, and it was awesome.
05:47.429 --> 05:52.450
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was one particular day that we were in the T-tons.
05:52.470 --> 05:55.051
[SPEAKER_00]: And my daughter was on Instagram.
05:55.171 --> 05:58.452
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, oh my gosh, we have to stop at this place.
05:58.492 --> 06:00.653
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have to do this cliff jumping thing.
06:00.713 --> 06:03.654
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was not on our quote unquote schedule.
06:03.774 --> 06:05.354
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it wasn't what we had planned.
06:05.394 --> 06:06.835
[SPEAKER_00]: Paul and I had like a whole schedule.
06:06.855 --> 06:07.435
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't planned.
06:08.195 --> 06:13.658
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we go to the parking area, we actually had to wait like an hour and a half to park.
06:13.718 --> 06:14.679
[SPEAKER_00]: It was ridiculous.
06:15.239 --> 06:25.086
[SPEAKER_00]: But we ended up doing it and then hiked maybe two miles to this rock where I guess people know that you like cliff jump into this lake.
06:25.766 --> 06:26.787
[SPEAKER_00]: And we all did it.
06:27.367 --> 06:27.867
[SPEAKER_00]: And right
06:32.370 --> 06:47.976
[SPEAKER_00]: that like literally came up the path and we were like, oh my gosh, and so got pictures of it, and it was like this a moment, this memorable thing of just everybody being adventurous, jumping off this cliff, being together, seeing wildlife, it was awesome.
06:48.297 --> 06:51.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, it's probably one of my favorite memories of the whole summer.
06:53.239 --> 06:58.761
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be mine, but I definitely want to know what yours is.
06:59.102 --> 07:02.423
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you said we can pick if the other person answers, but I definitely want to know.
07:02.924 --> 07:05.645
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mode my grass.
07:08.586 --> 07:09.706
[SPEAKER_01]: It cannot be yours.
07:10.326 --> 07:11.287
[SPEAKER_01]: I reject that.
07:11.587 --> 07:12.507
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember it though.
07:12.567 --> 07:13.767
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the problem.
07:14.407 --> 07:20.909
[SPEAKER_01]: A man in my condition has to just be thankful that they can remember something from the past.
07:22.189 --> 07:28.470
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my most memorable thing from the summer was we didn't do much traveling because I.
07:29.930 --> 07:34.531
[SPEAKER_01]: We decided not to take a vacation in the summer because including last weekend when you're in New York City,
07:38.957 --> 07:41.619
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm going to Patagonia for two weeks.
07:42.559 --> 07:43.440
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so fun.
07:44.180 --> 07:44.501
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
07:45.161 --> 07:49.724
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, and then as a family, we're taking a spring break trip to Puerto Rico.
07:50.825 --> 07:53.687
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and that's all before April.
07:54.507 --> 07:56.548
[SPEAKER_01]: So, just a lot of traveling.
07:57.169 --> 07:59.910
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but last week I went to New York City to do a wedding.
08:00.911 --> 08:05.094
[SPEAKER_01]: And while we were there, um, very much like your daughter, which one was it, Kira?
08:06.071 --> 08:06.411
[SPEAKER_01]: or Bri.
08:06.611 --> 08:07.812
[SPEAKER_00]: Kira, yep.
08:07.852 --> 08:08.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Kira.
08:09.193 --> 08:14.896
[SPEAKER_01]: So my daughter, CC, found a pizza place in Times Square on TikTok and was like, we got to go to this place.
08:15.256 --> 08:15.836
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a viral.
08:16.077 --> 08:16.657
[SPEAKER_01]: It went viral.
08:17.017 --> 08:28.263
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, we'll get there early and we ate at this pizza place that was an old church that this Italian woman kind of purchased and then turned into a pizza place.
08:28.283 --> 08:31.725
[SPEAKER_01]: It was great pizza at a great time and CC puts it up on her.
08:32.125 --> 08:34.187
[SPEAKER_01]: She has like a teen private Instagram account.
08:35.217 --> 08:39.500
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she put it up on there and her friends were like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:39.520 --> 08:45.084
[SPEAKER_01]: And then one friend was helped her realize that that wasn't the viral pizza place.
08:46.365 --> 08:47.466
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.
08:47.886 --> 08:49.287
[SPEAKER_02]: She had confused it with another.
08:49.307 --> 08:49.488
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
08:49.648 --> 08:51.309
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it was a great time.
08:51.329 --> 08:53.250
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great time.
08:53.390 --> 08:54.311
[SPEAKER_00]: That's hilarious.
08:54.892 --> 08:55.632
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's pretty funny.
08:55.712 --> 08:58.014
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe she'll make a pizza place viral now.
08:58.234 --> 09:02.317
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe even her and her 17 friends that she's
09:04.610 --> 09:26.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that was probably because that just happened last weekend and that was a we we did like fun New York City stuff one day and then we did like up in the Catskill mountains for the wedding and then yeah it was just it was a great time so that's probably that's a good that's technically after Labor Day, but the summer was pretty chill.
09:29.086 --> 09:32.628
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's my that's my question what's okay it's your turn to ask question.
09:33.844 --> 09:34.084
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
09:34.524 --> 09:35.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, here's my question.
09:35.965 --> 09:41.046
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to help me, but I'm, I'm doing the class that you're teaching right now, uh, Jesus.
09:41.066 --> 09:41.806
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have some women?
09:42.326 --> 09:42.467
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:42.487 --> 09:42.887
[SPEAKER_00]: Power.
09:44.027 --> 09:46.148
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's so good listeners.
09:47.008 --> 09:48.048
[SPEAKER_00]: You can, I don't know.
09:48.168 --> 09:48.848
[SPEAKER_00]: You should be in it.
09:49.849 --> 09:50.369
[SPEAKER_00]: Come to an end.
09:50.389 --> 09:52.349
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you can also, you can, you can access it.
09:52.369 --> 09:54.310
[SPEAKER_01]: We're recording it and you can access it on gravity.
09:54.610 --> 09:54.870
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
09:54.930 --> 09:57.391
[SPEAKER_01]: Common stock comma slash community.
09:58.923 --> 09:59.163
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
09:59.503 --> 10:00.403
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you said something.
10:00.423 --> 10:17.927
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to tell me the exact quote, but you said something like a characteristic of somebody who maybe is a good leader in power is somebody who allows or empowers people to walk into the room to be fully themselves.
10:18.527 --> 10:19.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember what you said?
10:20.048 --> 10:20.908
[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that.
10:21.938 --> 10:40.628
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're talking about power and we're using some definitions and some categories from a book, which I've got right here, it's called Beyond Inclusion Beyond Empowerment, a developmental strategy to liberate everyone.
10:41.648 --> 10:52.416
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that book, they define power as the human capacity to move out in the world, so it's your will, your wisdom, your agency, your capital.
10:53.357 --> 11:02.803
[SPEAKER_01]: And they make the point that power is concommit or inherent with what it means to be human.
11:02.903 --> 11:08.547
[SPEAKER_01]: So every human has the capacity and capability to be powerful.
11:09.608 --> 11:15.590
[SPEAKER_01]: And so power then isn't something we own, but it's something we tap into it.
11:15.830 --> 11:24.273
[SPEAKER_01]: So they really have a more spiritual understanding of power that I think fits well and to our understanding of like the fruit of the spirit or something like that, right?
11:25.093 --> 11:28.895
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the book they talk about characteristics of a powerful person,
11:31.302 --> 11:45.369
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the characteristics of a powerful person is that is what you're referring to when they walk into the room, everyone's best self can come forward.
11:46.469 --> 11:47.310
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
11:48.310 --> 11:50.051
[SPEAKER_00]: That gripped me.
11:51.506 --> 12:14.584
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, when I walk into the room, any room, my dining room table, where all my kids are, my staff meeting that I lead on Monday mornings, the congregation that I get to be a part of and preach, do I actually help everybody bring their best self forward?
12:15.405 --> 12:16.666
[SPEAKER_00]: That was really powerful.
12:20.431 --> 12:21.752
[SPEAKER_00]: You know how like a certain thing.
12:21.792 --> 12:24.034
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a kyros, like certain things like stand out.
12:24.114 --> 12:30.819
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something I've been chewing on as to like, what does it actually look like to be intentional in that way?
12:30.999 --> 12:33.220
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess that's kind of my question.
12:33.261 --> 12:43.408
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you think it looks like for you and your life to help bring other people's best self forward in every room you walk into?
12:48.916 --> 13:10.702
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a deeply personal question, meaning I think it matters who we are, what room or in, who else is in the room, who designed or is in charge of the room, you know, all that matters in this question.
13:11.122 --> 13:13.443
[SPEAKER_01]: So another way to say this is,
13:15.322 --> 13:18.024
[SPEAKER_01]: the way I answer this question, Chrissy, maybe different than the way you do.
13:20.245 --> 13:25.568
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of, you know, gender and those kinds of things.
13:27.069 --> 13:41.738
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things that occurs to me is that leaders can either, and I'm putting this starkly, because this isn't a strict binary,
13:43.078 --> 13:54.101
[SPEAKER_01]: But for clarity sake, just, um, leaders can either take up space or create and hold space.
13:57.602 --> 14:07.885
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think one of the things that I've learned to reckon with and acknowledge is that for a whole host of reasons,
14:09.632 --> 14:29.487
[SPEAKER_01]: including demographic reasons, social occasion reasons, my institutional position and various things I inhabit, that I take up space just being present somewhere in most spaces.
14:30.968 --> 14:33.350
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have to actively work.
14:34.948 --> 14:39.249
[SPEAKER_01]: to create space or hold space for others.
14:41.070 --> 14:41.350
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:47.552 --> 14:55.234
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting because I think the reason that you said it's deeply personal, I would also argue it's deeply spiritual.
14:57.135 --> 15:02.817
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's why, at least for me, I've been chewing on this for like two weeks now.
15:03.945 --> 15:05.846
[SPEAKER_00]: that I think you're right.
15:06.586 --> 15:10.108
[SPEAKER_00]: We can either empower create space or we can take it up.
15:10.888 --> 15:27.935
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, there is a lot of entanglement of taking up space with pride, with proving, with kind of junk rather than living.
15:29.862 --> 15:54.179
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there is, I'm just noticing that in myself of like places that I take up space rather than freely give it or empower other people, there's stuff underneath the surface that I need to unearth that often involves confession of pride and believing that I need to earn something or prove something or whatever.
15:54.399 --> 15:55.820
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, um,
15:57.143 --> 16:02.707
[SPEAKER_00]: it's a it's a deeply spiritual challenge that I think I'm walking through right now.
16:03.688 --> 16:04.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:05.569 --> 16:06.270
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think?
16:08.652 --> 16:09.352
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think that is?
16:09.392 --> 16:12.655
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think there is pride and taking up space?
16:12.735 --> 16:14.176
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that a challenge for you?
16:16.738 --> 16:16.838
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd
16:19.022 --> 16:28.905
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I think because it seems as though Jesus in the gospels often is empowering other people.
16:29.705 --> 16:38.427
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just have been convicted that there are a lot of my life has been, uh, I want the space for myself.
16:39.147 --> 16:42.208
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds so ugly, but like, it's true.
16:42.228 --> 16:43.468
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I,
16:46.171 --> 16:59.590
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe the lie that my value is dependent on the space that I'm taking up in the power that I have in those rooms rather than empowering other people.
16:59.790 --> 17:02.033
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just don't think that that's the Jesus way.
17:03.597 --> 17:03.837
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
17:05.038 --> 17:07.500
[SPEAKER_01]: What occurs to me as you say that, Christy, thank you for sharing that.
17:09.602 --> 17:25.814
[SPEAKER_01]: But occurs to me as you say that is that like in your body there's some understanding of like power or authority or success that is the same thing as commanding space.
17:28.203 --> 17:34.147
[SPEAKER_01]: and being maybe recognized or acknowledged that you're the authority here or you're in charge here.
17:36.409 --> 17:46.535
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's one of the reasons what we're doing this class and one of the challenges that I'm also facing is that I don't think that's, as you say, I don't think that's the way that Jesus embodies power.
17:47.656 --> 17:57.823
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's typically in our world, that's the way that we see power modeled and embodied and so we all compete in that power game.
17:59.588 --> 18:06.712
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that that power game has more to do with domination and control than it does love.
18:08.854 --> 18:09.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
18:10.595 --> 18:10.915
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:13.597 --> 18:14.238
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
18:16.900 --> 18:17.080
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:17.560 --> 18:19.541
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just and one of the things go ahead.
18:20.622 --> 18:20.882
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.
18:21.563 --> 18:26.366
[SPEAKER_00]: I just was I think that there's there's place it's so interesting because even in the
18:28.113 --> 18:31.656
[SPEAKER_00]: as a woman, you're like, no, I want the world to be different.
18:31.896 --> 18:35.299
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like that competition against men.
18:35.559 --> 18:38.302
[SPEAKER_00]: So to speak, isn't there.
18:38.362 --> 18:55.556
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there is a justice piece of that that I think is like, what does it look like to actually empower the immigrant, the woman, the film, the blank, with whatever doesn't have that dominance and control
18:58.586 --> 19:05.668
[SPEAKER_00]: But then there's the flip side of why am, why am I doing that for myself?
19:07.068 --> 19:13.930
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's one thing to like extend and empower other people and I want to be about that.
19:14.210 --> 19:21.571
[SPEAKER_00]: But I find myself doing that for myself, which that is what I am convicted about.
19:21.591 --> 19:22.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
19:23.292 --> 19:23.912
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does.
19:28.010 --> 19:39.537
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that's emerging for me is that there are people who have a higher rank in any kind of space that we're in, you know, maybe they're able bodied or maybe they're they're not a child.
19:39.857 --> 19:42.339
[SPEAKER_01]: They're what we would call like an adult.
19:42.619 --> 19:44.020
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not a senior citizen, right?
19:44.080 --> 19:45.181
[SPEAKER_01]: They they're white.
19:45.541 --> 19:46.121
[SPEAKER_01]: They're male.
19:46.962 --> 19:48.222
[SPEAKER_01]: They're cisgendered, right?
19:49.183 --> 19:54.747
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's a different responsibility in spaces for people.
19:54.787 --> 19:56.968
[SPEAKER_01]: I just mentioned all my demographic, right?
19:57.909 --> 20:00.630
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a different responsibility for someone like me.
20:01.891 --> 20:07.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there is for somebody who doesn't check all those top of the hierarchy boxes.
20:09.650 --> 20:10.471
[SPEAKER_01]: in spaces.
20:11.631 --> 20:19.516
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm inhabiting a space and I'm, you know, you work free of the church and we're at a meeting.
20:21.417 --> 20:30.743
[SPEAKER_01]: Your options of how to show up and if you feel fully empowered in that meeting are limited by the way I operate.
20:41.250 --> 20:41.870
[SPEAKER_01]: then you do.
20:42.931 --> 21:00.541
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if I operate in a way that reinforces or relies on the competition hierarchy machine that you're talking about, you either are quiet and passive or you step into compete.
21:03.519 --> 21:03.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:04.179 --> 21:04.440
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:05.320 --> 21:15.607
[SPEAKER_01]: And and there are there's other options, Chrissy, like there, there's the option to subvert or critique or undermine the game that I'm playing.
21:17.028 --> 21:21.391
[SPEAKER_01]: But those options are costly for you.
21:21.812 --> 21:31.058
[SPEAKER_01]: He had there super costly and in often the juices and worth the squeeze, meaning somebody like me.
21:33.135 --> 21:37.217
[SPEAKER_01]: doesn't usually respond well when that happens.
21:37.318 --> 21:37.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
21:39.079 --> 21:48.985
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like we just get habituated and socialized into these roles that maintain these things.
21:49.585 --> 21:55.208
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they prey upon those things that already live in us like insecurity and pride.
21:56.869 --> 21:58.790
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we hit we play games with that, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the things I was referring to, and I said, like, I think it looks differently for me than it looks for you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's just an example.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you agree with that?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely agree.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to give another example.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, so like another example would be like, I'm at your house, which I've been at your house a dozen times and when it's me as a guest in your house and you and Paul are parenting your kids, it's flipped.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're the one in charge.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You have the responsibility I don't.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so my options for how I show up there, how I interact there, are set, limited, bounded by you and Paul.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but even in that, that's what I think that's what's so challenging about that statement of M.I.
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[SPEAKER_00]: empowering people
23:23.453 --> 23:44.089
[SPEAKER_00]: and in all of those situations, whether it's a staff room meeting or my dining room table at my house with my kids, and that is, I think, what keeps gripping my heart of every opportunity, every setting, every situation is a bit different, but the heartbeat is the same.
23:45.651 --> 23:53.398
[SPEAKER_00]: of how I think Jesus loved people and how I'm being challenged personally right now in that kind of situation to love people around me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What just occurred to me as you were saying that is like let's just assume for the sake of this conversation that no no person is better
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[SPEAKER_01]: at being that kind of leader that empowers the people's best self to come forward, nobody's better at that than Jesus.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think about the number of times,
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[SPEAKER_00]: yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't mean that he's not calling it forward.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the reason why I thought the reason why that came to mind for me is that it's easy for me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: to use the same logic that operates in the domination control hierarchy that you're talking about, that praise on your insecurity and inflamed your pride to use that same logic when it comes to love.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So then let's say you and I decide from this call where both convicted and feel compunction to go out and empower people to have their best self come forward and we do it at
25:31.318 --> 25:58.889
[SPEAKER_01]: and our kids are just rascals, you want to mean normal like they're okay normal like they're just they're just a cotton headed Navy Muggins and I think it's easy then for me to just internalize that as a failure like I obviously did not I obviously did not show up in a way that let Kira's best self come forward what's wrong with me and I think
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the ways that love works is that it takes the human desire to control all things off the table as a mechanism for how to love people, how to care for people.
26:34.153 --> 26:46.035
[SPEAKER_01]: and people are free to go away sad and people are free to get really angry when we try to hold before them their hypocrisy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's that's not my fault.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a deficiency in me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So it does go back to kind of, yeah, like to what I was saying of holding space for myself, like wanting to have the power in the room myself.
27:17.225 --> 27:22.946
[SPEAKER_00]: and part of that has to do with the lie of believing that it has to do something with my value.
27:23.627 --> 27:28.628
[SPEAKER_00]: But the outcome also we can believe the lie that it has something to do with our value.
27:29.368 --> 27:35.710
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't, which is easy to say, but harder to live out, that really what we're
27:36.810 --> 27:44.313
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of encouraged by in watching the way of Jesus is just how He gives the opportunity.
27:44.353 --> 27:50.696
[SPEAKER_00]: He creates this space for people to be their best selves and it doesn't matter.
27:51.736 --> 27:57.599
[SPEAKER_00]: What happens in the end based on our value isn't determined by what happens.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Does that?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean that's what I hear you saying.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's hard, especially like where I'm, we keep, I'm using the, the arena or example of being a parent and it's so difficult to not assign our value to, to, to how our kids are functioning if they're regularly.
28:25.408 --> 28:27.410
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're struggling with self-image issues.
28:27.970 --> 28:32.393
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're struggling with behavior patterns or like compulsive behaviors.
28:33.294 --> 28:37.997
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they lack social awareness and emotional intelligence.
28:38.578 --> 28:45.963
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's any number of things, right, that we would choose to change about them or for them if we could.
28:47.364 --> 28:50.506
[SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like our best efforts are, you know,
28:55.972 --> 29:03.336
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I think what your naming is, I'm guessing the listener, I'm guessing listeners can relate to this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's really hard not to ascribe value and worth to that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, who else is to blame?
29:16.722 --> 29:21.345
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, especially in parenting, you're like, oh gosh, yeah, but it's not.
29:23.446 --> 29:23.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:25.472 --> 29:35.721
[SPEAKER_00]: That you guys, we could spend a whole three hours on this, but that is stuff that's been on my brain and kind of I've been chewing on.
29:37.223 --> 29:48.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think it may be, I don't know, I'm gonna just call an audible here and to say let's just stick on this question for a few more minutes and then we'll wrap up.
29:49.674 --> 29:49.934
[SPEAKER_01]: Because,
29:51.760 --> 30:06.929
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm gonna, I'm gonna end by reading all these characteristics, Christy, just because I think they're pretty powerful and, they're good, inspiring, but when they walk into the room, everyone's best self can come forward.
30:07.849 --> 30:09.870
[SPEAKER_01]: I think another artifact of that for me is,
30:24.984 --> 30:31.610
[SPEAKER_01]: to be okay.
30:32.011 --> 30:37.776
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, another way to say that is, I don't want to use anyone here.
30:39.477 --> 30:39.798
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think another challenge for me with this, when they walk into room, everyone's best self can come forward, is, and we're seeing this in this Jesus and one class, is often times it takes
31:26.975 --> 31:35.917
[SPEAKER_01]: am I the kind of person that is able to bear other people's pains and anxieties and brokenness and hurt?
31:37.538 --> 31:43.299
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do I feel the need to solve and fix and correct and challenge?
31:44.520 --> 31:45.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Like am I the kind of
31:56.709 --> 31:58.590
[SPEAKER_01]: Acceptance and welcome.
32:01.530 --> 32:16.014
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's part of being the kind of person where your best self can come forward is being the kind of person who can also manage themselves when you're not best self comes forward.
32:20.196 --> 32:24.197
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like almost like the real self has to come forward as well.
32:28.070 --> 32:42.322
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because, Chrissy, you know this, like, there's a, there's a lot of pressure, especially in Christian families or Christian environments for everyone to have their best self on display,
32:55.296 --> 33:04.259
[SPEAKER_01]: destructive because we're always pretending and we're never actually bringing who we are to other people.
33:07.199 --> 33:14.862
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think about that too, the the pressure that we feel to always have our best self on.
33:16.082 --> 33:19.743
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that especially for people like we're talking earlier,
33:20.957 --> 33:24.240
[SPEAKER_01]: who are not at the top of hierarchies that we have in our culture.
33:24.780 --> 33:28.724
[SPEAKER_01]: That's even more, there's even more pressure for that.
33:40.073 --> 33:42.335
[SPEAKER_00]: We're having some technical difficulties, Matt.
33:43.456 --> 33:46.058
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, I know, it's okay.
33:46.359 --> 33:47.640
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they caught what you said.
33:49.155 --> 33:58.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it will be uploaded, so it's being recorded, and it will be uploaded eventually, although I'm at 19% Christy, which is not good.
33:59.862 --> 34:02.184
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, I'm at 99% people.
34:02.284 --> 34:04.546
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, this is all on me.
34:06.367 --> 34:17.395
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, I'm just thinking like to summarize like sometimes the pressure to always be your best self can actually keep you from being your true self.
34:21.102 --> 34:47.807
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, well, maybe the challenge is like today, like to have eyes to notice as we walk into the room, what we're walking into and then and then what we're empowering and also what is motivating that I think all three of those things are important to pay attention to.
34:48.625 --> 34:48.865
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:49.966 --> 34:53.508
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and maybe by way of clothes, let me just read the rest of these.
34:56.371 --> 34:56.931
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do that.
34:56.951 --> 34:58.152
[SPEAKER_01]: You think that's cool?
34:58.672 --> 34:58.932
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
35:00.253 --> 35:00.473
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
35:00.493 --> 35:09.860
[SPEAKER_01]: So the characteristics of a powerful person, according to the book I mentioned earlier, they have equanimity, wisdom, and clarity.
35:16.699 --> 35:24.945
[SPEAKER_01]: they have unfathomable compassion, they can hold not just two sides of an issue, but many sides.
35:27.547 --> 35:32.530
[SPEAKER_01]: They use the idea of seven generations, and this is what they meet by seven generations.
35:33.111 --> 35:37.014
[SPEAKER_01]: They can think of seven generations ahead.
35:38.114 --> 35:40.056
[SPEAKER_01]: They can think of seven generations back.
35:47.470 --> 35:55.279
[SPEAKER_01]: seven levels of human evolution or development above themselves and seven levels below themselves.
35:57.902 --> 36:01.145
[SPEAKER_01]: When they walk into the room, everyone's best self can come forward.
36:02.867 --> 36:07.973
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you talk to them, you experience being totally accepted.
36:12.562 --> 36:36.214
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, that that seems like an impossible ideal when I read it like that, but the powerful thing for me, I don't know if you have any comments on this Chrissy, but the powerful thing for me, no pun intended, is that that is true power, not money, not weapons, not force,
36:40.534 --> 36:46.295
[SPEAKER_01]: But that kind of magnanimous, spacious person.
36:48.236 --> 36:49.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think we would call up.
36:51.737 --> 36:52.957
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, let's strike you.
36:54.537 --> 36:58.678
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it sounds so loving.
37:00.359 --> 37:01.979
[SPEAKER_00]: It is what we all long for.
37:02.479 --> 37:03.439
[SPEAKER_00]: It is what we want.
37:03.579 --> 37:07.640
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what's inside of us that like, I think we need
37:12.296 --> 37:14.197
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, called towards that.
37:15.398 --> 37:19.640
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, listen, hopefully the recording will be fine here.
37:20.081 --> 37:26.405
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at a 10% uploaded, so by hopefully by the time this podcast comes out, my recording is uploaded.
37:28.226 --> 37:29.486
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris, it was great to chat with you today.
37:30.687 --> 37:32.328
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we need to do this more often.
37:32.388 --> 37:35.530
[SPEAKER_00]: Although we need Ben back, so I'll have to do another one like this.
37:35.550 --> 37:38.212
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just ask each other questions and but involve Ben.
37:39.086 --> 37:42.427
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, stop at the second question whenever it's a good one.
37:43.388 --> 37:43.808
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
37:44.208 --> 37:45.849
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about 20 questions.
37:45.889 --> 37:47.949
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe two questions is good enough.
37:48.590 --> 37:49.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Two questions.
37:49.570 --> 37:50.931
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, listener until next week.
37:51.391 --> 37:51.691
[SPEAKER_01]: Peace.
37:58.308 --> 38:01.369
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Gravity Podcast.
38:01.409 --> 38:03.350
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38:30.865 --> 38:34.469
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38:42.996 --> 38:44.677
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38:45.198 --> 38:52.603
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38:53.083 --> 38:57.946
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38:58.587 --> 38:59.247
[SPEAKER_02]: Catch you next time.
