Affirmation Is Active: Dr. Lulu on LGBTQIA+ Care, Parenting, and Allyship

Johanna Kulp: Hello, all. Welcome to another episode of Feed the Matriarchy. ⁓ we have a treat today. We are so pumped. And per usual, we already started talking about our topics before I hit record. And guys, it is amazing. are, we are, it's a good one. Get ready. Buckle up. Today, we are honored. And I don't use that word lightly. I use that very, very, very profusely. We are honored.
Heather: Yes. Yes. Good one.
Johanna Kulp: to have Dr. Lulu with us today. Dr. Lulu, before we get into all the topics, I wanna share your bio. And again, guys, buckle up, it's expansive. Dr. Lulu is very accomplished. So if you are aghast at what she's done, same z's over here. I am just so utterly impressed. So let's share with you all. Dr. Lulu, she, pronouns, is a former Lieutenant Colonel and Commander in the US Air Force. and a proudly disabled veteran. Already super impressive. She is a queer Nigerian immigrant pediatrician, certified life coach, author, she has a 10th book coming out that we're gonna talk about, ⁓ and an international speaker on affirming care. She is the founder of, and again, let's just keep going, Dr. Alulu's Pride Corner, which thank you for your work in that. Guys, we're gonna get into it, it's amazing. Affirming Care ATL.
Heather: Yep. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: The Affirm Program, which is clinician training, Dr. Lulu's Angels Haven, Inc. It's so amazing, so amazing. Pride Open Mic Night, Mom, Mama Beats of Marietta Movement. ⁓ She is the bestselling author of About Your Black Transgender Child and the new host dropping today, ⁓ Ask a Black Woman. So we're recording this. This is going to be airing later, but today this new podcast just dropped, right, Dr. Lulu?
Heather: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yup.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes, absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Go check it out. Go check it out. Her work centers LGBTQ plus people navigating multiple layers of marginalization with deep attention to culture, safety, affirmation, and lived experience. Dr. Lulu, thank you. Thank you for honoring us with this time where we can, yeah.
Heather: Welcome, welcome. Yeah. Yes.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Thank you for asking me, thank you for inviting me, I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ We are so excited ⁓ to learn from you. We are so excited to have our audience learn from you. ⁓ And to also, beyond that, learn more about what we can do to advocate specifically for the LGBTQ youth, right? To make sure that we show up in the right way for the LGBTQ youth. So, yeah, that's the work. ⁓
Heather: to show up.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes. I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
Johanna Kulp: Can I ask just for us, you have an expansive list of all the things that you've done. I would also like to note, it's not even exhaustive. There's more to that list than what I shared. We'll get into more of that. ⁓
Heather: There's more.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Like the fact that I'm a mom of a trans kid. think that the work found me through the child, who is ⁓ an adult. But the work found me. I tell people that all the time. I did not go looking for this. No person in their right minds would like to be told on Facebook, two Sundays ago, I wear this because I'm a visible ally. And so the picture that I had had my wrist with it.
Heather: There you go.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Mmm. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: The gentleman said, instead of wearing a rope around your wrist, you should have a rope around your neck. This was three weekends ago. Nobody goes searching for that. No one. So, yay.
Johanna Kulp: Whoa, no. ⁓ that is grotesque.
Heather: Wow. Yeah. No one goes searching for that. I think that's really powerful, especially given everything you've done to support people in this space. Jo, you wanted to ask her how she got into it. So here we are. Yeah. I know.
Johanna Kulp: Well, she beat me to the question, which just feels perfect. My question was going to be, what led you to this work? But you were like, yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Bye. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I've always been queer. don't know the queer makeup of the people in the room, of the two of you, of the coast. don't know, but I know one of you, as a parent of a queer kid, or you know a queer person, I think, at the end of the if you know a queer person, then you should be an ally, not just any ally, a visible ally. At the back of my phone, which is downstairs, I try to put my phone away from me these days because my son put the light thing, so if it's ringing, the light
Heather: yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: comes up so I can't it because I live alone so I can't I can't always hear it but the light and so I leave it downstairs but the back of the phone has a big thing that says visible ally on it. Allyship is a doing word it's like it's like love is an action word you have to roll up your sleeves to get into the game you can't just be an ally.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Mm.
Heather: Hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Quiet.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: No, you have to be, I'm an ally, like ready to go. So allyship is part of what caused me to do the work. I've always been queer my whole life. We don't just become queer. We're born this way, like somebody said.
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yes.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: But then it didn't matter to me until my kid came into the ring. And I think like most parents today, Mother's Day happens to be Mother's Day in North America because apparently it's not everywhere. It was Mother's Day in Nigeria like a month ago.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: My kid came into the ring and I think most parents, not just mothers, most parents who have their head on right will agree with me that when your kid comes into the game, it's over. They'll take off your earrings and it's like, who do we have to, where are we going? Let's go, I'll get the keys. So my kid came into the game, you know, and then at about 18 months or so of age, I told my mom, said, I think the baby.
Heather: ⁓ yeah, that's right. Amen.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Yup.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: This was my first child. So I think the baby is gay. And my mother was like...
Johanna Kulp: Mmm.
Heather: I love it.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: bring the holy water, because we're Catholics, bring the holy water and then sleep people don't ever see that around my first grand son. And I was like, ooh, so right away I already knew I was born bread, buttered and slightly burned in Nigeria, one of the most religious and most homophobic countries in the world. So I was already kind of ready for that. And then, you know, the child is growing and I'm like, yeah, this kid is gay. I don't care what anybody says, this kid is gay. And it was okay for me to have a
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Uhhh ⁓ Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: kid in my brain. It was okay. I mean, I have gay family members. However, karma...
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Nothing but nothing could have prepared me for trans. This is just not something you're like, God, yes. Could I have trans and a side of fries? And then supersize the drink? No. Well, I was not expecting trans. I mean, at about 12, I said, so is you gay or is you not gay? And the kid was like, Mom, I'm not sure. And I think I want a whole space for parents here.
Johanna Kulp: Mmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I decided to hear what I wanted to hear. I heard, I'm not sure means I'm not. But that's not what the kid said. The said, I'm not sure.
Heather: There you go. rate.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm. yeah. ⁓
Heather: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So that was one. And then number two, as a kid kept growing at the age of 16, getting ready to go to college, she joined their school GSA. So if you know what GSA is, it used to be called Gay Street Alliance. Now it's called Gender Sexuality Alliance. And that's like a little club in school. Actually, she helped start it in the high school. And it was like, that was a little club for like queer folks to just find each other because we're all about community. And so another red flag.
Heather: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yep.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: to me I was like well I mean it was gay again I could take gay. Then at graduation from Stanford so first of all I was blocked on Twitter and I was like hmm I wonder why and so I went through my middle child to find out that we had changed pronouns to they them.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. Mmm.
Heather: Okay.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yep, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Like, yeah, that's the first way to do it. So block your parents, because, yeah. And then at the graduation from Stanford, the gentleman kept the person who was making the announcement, because my kid was getting the award of excellence. And the person was like, this and they that and they this. And so I was like, son, who are all these people getting this award? I told you, there's only one getting the award. Who are these people this man is doing? And so my middle child said, mom, I think it's because X is non-binary. I'm like, what the fuck is that?
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yeah.
Heather: Yup. Alright.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're like...
Heather: Raids. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So I asked my now ex-wife, said, babe, what's non-binary? She's like, I don't know, that's your kid. I said, I don't know, I've never heard that before. Never, ever, ever heard the term before. And so that is the way my story begins. And so I'm like, OK, so let me look up this. What? Non-binary? But what does it mean? And I truly, honestly, did not understand it. And so I want to stop here again and hold space for parents who do not know or understand.
Heather: Amazing.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yes. Thank you.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: that there is gender and then there is sexuality. Unfortunately, in today's... terminology, all of them are grouped under the LGBTQ plus community. And then most people just say the gay people, right? Gay truly is sexuality is cisgender man who is attracted to another cisgender man. That's gay, technically speaking, but I'm still gay. mean, is also like a common term. Like right now, queer is also a common, it's replacing gay, you know, because it's not, the community has taken it back.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So I never knew that there's gender identity and then there's sexuality. I did not know that. I mean, I just knew I'm a cisgender woman. And at that time, when I was in medical school, well, actually, when I was in elementary school, I told my aunt, I like girls and I like boys. And she was like, oh, you're going to hell because we're Catholic. You know? Well, I don't want to go to hell. Yeah, I don't want to go to hell. So I'm just going to go right back into the closet and just pretend this.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Hmm. Wow.
Johanna Kulp: ⁓ yikes. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And then I tiptoed out again about 16. And so my dad, said, you know, this, this, this, um, cause one of my classmates wrote on my yearbook, said, I know, I know your secrets, your homosexual, like, Oh God, let me just tell my dad. Yes. There it is. And actually she spelt homosexuals. H-O-M-Y. I remember that. said, homie, sexual, what's that? But I remember that. So said, let me just tell my dad cause he's going to read my yearbook.
Johanna Kulp: Hmm.
Heather: They wrote that in your yearbook?
Johanna Kulp: Good God.
Heather: ⁓ my god. Okay.
Johanna Kulp: ⁓ God, yeah. Mm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And so that's my story paralleling my kid's own. And then I went to medical school and then I learned in medical school in the 80s, because that's when I went to medical school that bisexuality is a thing. And I was like, oh, so I'm not a lesbian then. I'm bisexual because I'm attracted to the... Oh, but wait, bisexuality is a mental illness is what they said to us in the 80s. I'm like...
Heather: Yeah. Amazing. Right.
Johanna Kulp: Mm. ⁓ God.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I'm not mentally ill, I'm not going to hell, you know what, I'm not on your job, I'm just going to since I am able to play straight because I am bisexual, you can play straight.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Sure, yep.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: is going to play straight and no one has to get hurt. And I want to again, I hope the parents are listening. These are the thoughts going on in your child's life. And so when your child suddenly tells you at 22 that they are transgender, honey, they didn't just learn about it yesterday.
Heather: Mm-hmm. That's right. That's right. That's right. ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm.
Johanna Kulp: No, they've been thinking, researching, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: They've been thinking, they've been researching, they've been listening, they've been seeing the way the world is treating other queer people, the stories the world is telling about other queer people, the way your parents treat the word gay. I, my ex-wife and I, we were equally culpable in being homophobic in the house, even as a queer couple. And we didn't think that it was unconscious, which is why it's called bias, right?
Johanna Kulp: 1000 % Mm-hmm
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yep. Mm. Mm. ⁓ Yeah, unconscious, yeah.
Heather: Right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: We were not like, oh, but we were watching America's top model. We would always say, well, why does he have to be so gay? Why does have be so, that was Miss J, the that was the one with the question. Yeah, why does he have to all that? Why can't he just tone it down a bit? Now the kid is hearing this. Yeah, think it's the child who's listening like that is gonna come and say, oh mom, guess what, I'm gay. No.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: I remember. Yeah, I love Miss J.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Heather: rates.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, they're taking it in. Mm, mm-hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So I was never told officially about being non-binary. I found it out by accident. And then when my kid was graduating from masters in New England college of New England, NEC, New England, ⁓ God, menopause, I forget.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, that's fine. It's a college in New England. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ there you go.
Heather: It's okay.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yeah, conservatory of music. That's what any see. So I get a phone call on Christmas morning and I'm thinking, oh, my kid is going to say Merry Christmas. I was like, no, mom, I'm gay. I mean, no, mom, I'm trans. I'm like, trans what? I'm no, I'm transgender. Wait, wait, wait. I thought you were just non-binary. I'm just trying to wrap my head around non-binary.
Heather: There is. Right.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So now you're trans. And I realized that she had to tell me, now thinking back, she had to tell me because she was already beginning to transition. I would have noticed. So now I realize that that's why she told me. And it's just dawned on me recently that that's probably why she told me. If she was not coming home from her master degree, she may have never told me.
Heather: Yeah. Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Heather: Right, well.
Johanna Kulp: Nah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And so I want the parents to know that being queer yourself does not mean your kids are going to, and I use the term invite you in as opposed to come out to you. My second TEDx talk is about inviting in versus coming out. So your kids don't have to invite you in just because you're queer. Your kids don't have to invite you in just because you're a woman. If you are not a psychological space for them, then I can involve you in this.
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Mm. Mm.
Heather: I like that. I like that.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: No. Yep. Wow. Yes. You created, you create safety. That is, you have to create. Mm.
Johanna Kulp: Yep, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: You have to be 50. That is what they're looking for, Because people get unliberated for this. People get unliberated all the time for being here. So if they don't think you're safe or you can handle it, let me rephrase that. And you define handling it however you like. But if your kid doesn't think that you can handle it, they're not gonna tell you. Studies have shown that a lot of times parents are the last ones to know. For obvious reasons.
Johanna Kulp: You create safety. Yeah.
Heather: They do. They do.
Johanna Kulp: They do.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Heather: Yep. Yes. Yes. Yes. Wow, that is so powerful. And I am so deeply grateful for how you have showed up, not just in this podcast, but in your life, just owning that space, because that creates a path and a model for other parents to say, hey, I didn't do it right at the beginning. But you and we talk a lot about that on Feed the Matriarchy, like
Johanna Kulp: Mm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We do, yeah.
Heather: I didn't, like when you know better, you do better. When you learn more, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Period. Period. I made all the mistakes so that you don't have to. That said.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Smart people learn from other people's mistakes. mean, no, no. Smart people learn from their mistakes. Smarter people learn from other people's mistakes. So hopefully, hopefully that said, hopefully you're not waiting to make your own mistake.
Heather: Yes. That's good.
Johanna Kulp: Uhhh
Heather: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Because sometimes it means the unliving of your child before you learned. I mean, one of the things I did on my way here was have a practice called the Tolulu Youth Health Center many, millions ago, where I think that was this was the. me and the.
Heather: Mm-mm. Mm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Hmm. ⁓ yeah, she's got a picture of her family for everybody. Yeah, it's beautiful.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yeah, this was the thing on the website, but I was working with suicidal youth and I found out that almost 90 % of the suicidal youth were on the queer spectrum. So I want parents to know that don't say it will not happen to me.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Heather: That's right. That's right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: It can happen to you. Kids online themselves all the time. But what a disservice adulthood is doing to childhood if children cannot find one safe adult and have to resort to that. Because that's what the studies have shown that when a suicidal youth finds one single safe, affirming adult, just one, they don't online themselves. for the first to have this high rate of unliving, self-onliving, that tells us how much
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: One, one. Yeah.
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: distrust betrayal that they have of us. We've betrayed them and they distrust us. And so they're like, you know what, I'm out. Because we just can't find one single trusting adult. And that's just a shame.
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yeah.
Heather: man, you know, Dr. Lulu, like we in a recent episode, we talked about how, how critical it is that when someone says something in a space that's like negative, whether it's like anti black, anti gay, anti trans, anti whatever that you have an obligation to speak up, that silence is complicity. And one
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes.
Heather: It is, your silence is complicity. And one of the things I've thought about a lot, a lot, because we have, we'll be general about this, but we have LGBTQ family members. have, we live, Johanna and I live in this space in a very real way. And one of the things I have constantly thought about,
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: is how important it is for us to be the affirming person in that conversation because you don't know the kids around you. You don't know where they're at in their journey. You don't know what they're thinking. But what they're always going to know is that Auntie Heather is good for it. Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: You don't know.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: had my back, yes! And look at me, I was nine when I told my aunt and I remember at 57 that she said I was gonna go to hell. Whatever her reason, yeah, however she came to that, whatever was going on in her mind, whether she understood what she was saying or not, I remember it.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you carried that. That was part of it. Yeah, that was your messaging.
Heather: I mean
Johanna Kulp: Mm, yeah. And that's what we don't want. That's what we don't want. We don't want these kids as they're coming to somebody and they think it's a safe person. And what they get is rejection. What they get is shame. That's not what we want. So you have a lot of different ways that you teach parents throughout this process. You have a lot of different things that you walk parents through.
Heather: shame.
Johanna Kulp: Can you talk a little bit about some of those resources that you offer? Because that's really important.
Heather: Yes.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So the truth is up until two years ago, was doing exclusively parent coaching. I actually have made a pivot and I work with physicians now as
Johanna Kulp: Mmm.
Heather: Great.
Johanna Kulp: Amazing.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: as stakeholders in the child's life. When this current administration took over two years ago, my podcast basically fell on its face. My most recent podcast, which is Moms for Trans Kids, all our guests just kept canceling because we're all mothers of trans kids. And they just kept casting me for obvious reason. So after about 14 months straight of cancellations, I think we had like two people that wanted to come. 14, because we were booked 14 months ahead.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Mm. Oof.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And then the new administration came and they were coming for parents, coming for their kids. And, you know, I don't blame them. So after that, I was like, let me think about who else is a stakeholder in the child's life. you know, there's the pastor, there's their teacher, there's their coach, there's extended family. And, but also I wanted someone who I also intersect with their identity, which is physicians, because doctors listen to doctors. It's just a thing. Parents also listen to parents.
Heather: That's it.
Johanna Kulp: Mmm.
Heather: Mmm. There you go. It's true.
Johanna Kulp: Nah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: But I'm not, I don't ever, I'm never ever going to stop being a parent of a trans kid. I'm just no longer parent facing fully. You even though I have the book that, you know, that came out last year, but it was at the tail end of that. Those people were just like, you know, they still love their kids, but they're just like, they've gone into hiding and they should. Yeah. So now I really mostly work with, with, with
Johanna Kulp: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for protection. Yep, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Physicians, but that said one of the things I do with parents is education education education and I have this ABCDEF of parenting your LGBTQ plus child is a very simple concept actually what I do is I start the alphabets and I have the letters that I've already kind of put with the words but also I Help I let the parents we should go around maybe once or twice so that they can also come up with affirming words and Just so you know my work is affirmation facing
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: ⁓ Gender affirmation facing. It's two different things. People are scared of the word gender now. Gender affirming care is like,
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Got it.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: a nuclear bomb. So I go with affirming care, which basically says you are Joanna, are who you are, Heather, you are who you are, and I believe you, and I'm going to support you. That's what affirmation means to me in my textbook. And so I came up with the difference between acceptance and affirmation. And just like we're saying, acceptance is more passive. It's like, see you, I hear you, I even believe you, but you know, just go over there with your, with your gay self, right? I mean,
Heather: I know. Good.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Heather: That's it.
Johanna Kulp: Like stay in your box. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: You're gay, mean I'm not gonna be part of it. A lot of people do that, well yeah, love the sinner, hate the sin. What sinner? What sin, right? But people say that all the time. So that's acceptance for me in my own words. Affirmation on the other hand is, ⁓ I hear you, I see you, I believe you, and how can I help? What can I do to support you?
Johanna Kulp: Uhhh... Ugh, hate that. Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yes. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And that means everything I do think, say, is going to say in support of who you are. Elevate that person that you say you are. That is affirmation. It's more active. So I tell parents that. So people are like, well, do you accept your child? Yeah. It's a very, it's barest minimum. Do you affirm your child? That's different. That's where we're going.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah, that's right.
Johanna Kulp: Yes, yeah, yeah, that's the next level.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: That you need to be an active ally. You have to be a visible ally to be an affirming person. So that's, you're not going to hide it when it's not convenient. You're not going to turn down your voice when it's not convenient. You will take a bullet if you need to. That's active ally. That's...
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: That's right.
Johanna Kulp: get louder.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So that's kind of what I teach the parents. And so in that same realm, the A stands for awareness. So just knowing that your kid is in the community or part of the community. Somebody said, stop saying member because it's not a membership. I like, So.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm. Yeah
Dr. Lulu She/Her: part of the community, So awareness becoming, being in the knowing, which is another thing I mentioned in my second TED talk, it's not for you to say, but I don't understand it because some children don't have the vocabulary yet to explain it themselves. So for you to know it's in the knowing, okay, now I know. What am I going to do with the knowledge that I have? So awareness.
Heather: That's right. That's right. That's right.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: That's right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And then awareness should always go with aligned action. And the rest of the alphabet is aligned action. So B is believe your kid. I don't know how any child is going to say, you know what, let me just play a game on my parents. I'm gay.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. Nah. Yeah. No.
Heather: Mm-mm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Not a thing that you choose. You don't say, God, give me gay with a side of fries. So B is believe your kids when they say the word. I don't care if they said it yesterday and they said it's not it today. Something has happened to make them say, I'm no longer gay. Something has happened. Because it's not something that you're just like, yeah, maybe.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Oh yeah. Yup. Yup.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I think there's questioning that is true. 5 % of the youth in high school today are questioning. That's a lot of kids. 5 % of US kids today in high school are questioning. That's a lot of kids. But they're only questioning because first of all, there's a knowing inside. Otherwise, if I'm very, very, very plastic bottle, I'll never question my glass.
Heather: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Haha, right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: What are my question? Yeah, what are my question is, will it be water in it? Will it be juice? What kind of thing would I put inside of me? Yeah, so the question is part of the LGBTQQ. The second Q is questioning. Okay, and then C is create a safe space in your heart and in your home.
Heather: That's really good.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Brian. That's right. Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: you your heart.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: can thrive, so the child can invite you in, so the child can test the waters with you, maybe bring their friend over, see how did you respond to the friend. Yeah? And I say respond versus react, right? Respond is more intentional, it's more impactful. React is more like slam dunk, we don't want that, okay. And then D is decide that you're gonna affirm this kid no matter what.
Heather: Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's so key. That's so key.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Right? We're moving forward. We're saying, I'm going to affirm you. That means if I have to leave your father.
Heather: 100%. Yep.
Johanna Kulp: I'm gonna affirm you. Yep.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: That means you have to tell grandma to go take a running jump.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Gonna affirm you. Yeah.
Heather: ⁓ yeah. We set the parameters, man. Who gets access to our children?
Dr. Lulu She/Her: That means you have to leave the church. These are powerful decisions. They're not easy decisions. When I'm saying these things, I'm going to say to your father, this is also my child. Because the child needs one affirming adult, not two parents necessarily. So that means going to the school and having a tantrum.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Heather: ⁓ yeah?
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: You're right, they're hard. That's right.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah. One, one, just one.
Heather: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Advocating. I like that you said having a tantrum. was like advocating and you're like having a tantrum and I'm like damn straight. Yeah.
Heather: I did too.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Well, we're going out like that. That crazy mama, that's me. Hold on, let me hold my earrings for me. I'll be right back. Right back, okay. So, and then E is educate yourself about it. Get the details, get the facts. And you know what? Not necessarily from your kid. Your kid should not be the person with the bandwidth to educate you. You know some queer adults. If you don't know them, find them.
Johanna Kulp: There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: That's right. Yeah. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love threads.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Ask the question on threads, where are queer adults? Ask those people. And then not every queer person has the bandwidth. And so don't expect it from them. It's not, it's not, they're not the queer university. So they shouldn't be. So, and then F is find community or finish strong. Each one has an alternate. I just went with the first one, but each one is like E is educate or empower.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Heather: I like it.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: You know, D is decide or do not, right? It's like that. um, so I, then I stopped and I, and I asked them to continue. Find community means find other parents of queer kids. You cannot be the only one. I used to think I was the only one, but I'm not the only one. Yeah. Okay. So, and then, and then we go with G and then, and then like that. And so, and then, and then by the time we do the first round of alphabets, the parents are like, wow, I can do this. Yes, you can.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Hmm.
Johanna Kulp: You're not, yeah.
Heather: Mm-mm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah you can. Yeah you can.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And the fear is bogus. The fear is put in there by its disinformation. Let's spread the worst kind of lie about this so we can put fear in the people.
Heather: Mmm. Yes. I-
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's the othering.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Have you exactly, have you met my daughter? Why would you be afraid? She is the most docile, introverted introvert, straight A student, full ride to Stanford. And no, she did not play basketball, she played classical piano. So it's like, it's not, we're not talking about a threat, for goodness sake. I heard recently on Facebook, somebody said, okay, so let me get this right. So you're putting a ban on,
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Right? Exactly. I mean...
Johanna Kulp: No, not at all.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: trans women in the bathroom because you're worried that cis men will pretend to be trans women so they can molest girls. Should I not be afraid of cis men? I don't know, was like what? Yes!
Johanna Kulp: Who's the real threat? Who's the real threat? Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah, and by the way, don't think a bathroom ban is gonna stop some asshole who had that plan. FYI. Right? Like, that's not- they're not gonna be like, no.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Exactly!
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Because if we go back in history, most people that's S.A., children or adults, is people that they know. And honestly, it's cis-head men, right? So why are we, exactly, the pastor, the parish priest, hello. So why are we, why again are we worried about there may be a trans woman? Where is your thought? And then if you look at the news today, every single day there is...
Heather: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Heather: It is.
Johanna Kulp: It's uncles. It's uncles. Yup. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: yet another Republican pastor and I'm not making it up. This is not a political show. I'm just going by the news headlines. He's been arrested for child pornography. He's been arrested for nudity. He's been arrested for not, I really make that. So why are you asking us to be afraid of trans women? My daughter wants to use the restroom for three minutes and go about her business.
Johanna Kulp: No, you're, you're, it's valid. No.
Heather: I know. 100%.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an othering, right? It's using somebody as a scapegoat. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yeah, period.
Heather: Dr. Lulu, one of the things that I, you're speaking to this, but I want to ask you to speak a little bit more about it because I think a lot of parents get stuck in this space. And so you talked about fear and like the fear that's kind of being injected into the culture right now. And I know parents who you just love your kids so much. And like you said, I didn't ask for transgender with a side of fries. Like, why would anyone choose this? Like, would never, we'd never choose. I don't want life to be harder. But I think a lot of times what I've heard is that ⁓ when a child's coming out and the parent's sort of reacting because they're so afraid for that child's future and that fear.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Heather: is all over their face. And it's not that they don't want to love and accept their child or even affirm their child ultimately, but they're just freaking terrified, right? Of like what could potentially happen. And I think they're, ⁓ how do you counsel people to, to kind of like stand against the fear, right? You know.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yeah. And so the definition of fear is false evidence that appears real. F-E-A-R is a false evidence that appears real. And let's, let's get into it. Shall we? Your little, I'm going to call him Trevor. So Trevor yesterday was a loving hugging. You love your 12 year old.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Yeah, okay. Yes. Okay, there you go.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And then last night, Trevor tells you, mom, I'm gay. And suddenly today you're afraid of Trevor. This is your kid, the same kid. Come on. Let's let, let us talk about the false evidence that appears real. This is the same child that yesterday. So what happened? Not the child is what you are thinking about what your child told you. And let's just say, let's just say.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: So is this him kidding?
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: play devil's advocate, let's just say that the world is actually, yeah, I'm worried about the child's future. Great. The child wants to survive today. And we worry about today. That's the second thing. And then the third thing, you're worried so much about the child's future that you become the child's first bully.
Heather: That's it. Yeah. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Mmm.
Heather: Boom. Boom.
Johanna Kulp: Mic drop.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: ⁓ so okay. ⁓ so Trevor is gay. ⁓ my God, I'm scared. Trevor does not know the governor of the state of Louisiana, but Trevor knows you. Trevor knows their pastor. Trevor knows their school coach.
Heather: Boom.
Johanna Kulp: Trevor's got you right in front of him, yep.
Heather: Yeah. It's reading your face.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: But Trevor does not know the governor of Louisiana. So you're worried that the governor of Louisiana is gonna make a law against Trevor. Great, but who is the person around Trevor? Who are the five most likely people around Trevor? The uncle, the aunt, the cousin, the best friend. Of those five people.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Are y'all protecting or are you becoming Trevor's worst enemy as well? So now it doesn't take the governor. It doesn't take an anti-trans law. You see where I'm going with this now? So when parents are, again, you have to ask yourself before you have children. And one of the things I talk about in my book is before you ever have a child. So how do parents affirm their kids? How do you? How do you? If your child says, mom, who is Trevor, comes in with a girl, Suzanne. Mom, this is Suzanne. You don't say, ⁓ my God.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yep, 1000%.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: You say wow! Hello Suzanne! Hi, nice to meet you! Would you all like some chocolate? I made some chocolate chip cookies. They're in the fridge.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And suddenly because Trevor came in with Tyrone, ⁓ my God, it's the same Trevor. So the question is, what are your thoughts? So before you ever consider having a child, ask yourself, what are my thoughts about this child that I'm going to conceive?
Johanna Kulp: Same Trevor.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: My third TEDx talk is titled, Let the Children Lead. Parenting as Students. You must parent as a student of your child. You cannot have a little baby today at nine o'clock in the morning and suddenly you know your child. No, you don't.
Johanna Kulp: Ooh, love that. Yeah. No, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And so the child will lead you to who they are. And so when the child is leading you, why are you doubting the child and believing the hype outside of the child? The child is telling you, mom, I don't like peanuts. No, eat peanuts. Eat peanuts because peanuts are good for you. What if the child was allergic to peanuts? Would you force them to eat peanuts?
Johanna Kulp: Nope.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Oh, well, okay. How would you know a child is allergic to peanuts in the first place? The child has to eat the peanuts, right? So I'm just saying that let the child lead you to who they are. My kid, and I say this because of my own kid, who I kept saying, stop acting like a girl. You're not a girl. You're a boy. How, why was I saying this? She would tie her sweater on her hair and say, mom, look, I have long hair. I said, no, no, you don't have long hair. You're not. Take off that sweater. Or then she would tie it around her waist and say, mom, look, I'm a girl. said, no, you're not. Take off that sweater. You're a boy. So I was...
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Mm. Mmm. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: was my child's first bully. But then again I said, ⁓ I'm afraid of what the world is gonna do. My child doesn't have to worry about the world. She's already got me to bully her. We have to change the way we're thinking so the things that we do can change. So your first thought about queer people is scary people, then it's gonna create fear in your head. But the average queer person is me. I am a queer person.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Right, well. Mmm. Mmm. That's right. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Heather: Yes.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: What are you scared about of me again? What am I going to do to you? I just want to a nice, tall, masculine lesbian who plays basketball who's about 5'11", and let's have mind-blowing sex. And you know what? It all brought down to you. Yeah, that's it. I don't know you. You don't know me. And by the way, sex is not all we're doing. We have toothaches. We have pets. We have cousins who graduate from college. We are regular people.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah. Not too much to ask. Yeah Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. For life.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Now if you're only thinking that gay people have sex, whose problem is that? Who is the person thinking?
Heather: Yes, that's right. That's right. Who's obsessed? Who's obsessed with sex, Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yeah, it says more about the person that's thinking it. Yeah, who's obsessed? Who's obsessed? Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Exactly. This is, honestly, I'm very serious about this. Who is the person that is obsessed about this? It's not me or my ex-wife. We were just two women just chilling in the house. It was not us. So your hatred of queer people, you must examine the source.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. No.
Heather: right.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: That's right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: But that process is scary for many. They don't want to examine it. They don't want to sit down and think, where did that thought actually come from? Did it come from a queer person? And if it did, is that queer person out or are they still in the closet? Because there's something called internalized homophobia whereby I am queer, but I am so...
Heather: Mmm. Mm.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: deep in the closet because of everything I've heard about queerness that I now hate all things queer.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Not because queerness is bad, but because of my own experience about what queerness is. But that's not somebody else's, but is fear real though? Fear is a thought in somebody's head because the next person loves that queer person. So it's not, so it's irrational.
Johanna Kulp: Well, the fear, because of the fear. Yeah.
Heather: That's right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: ⁓ It's not real.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yep, yep, yeah, 1000%.
Heather: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: How many, ⁓ how many ⁓ drag queens do we know that have ever, ever, ⁓ ever molested a kid?
Heather: And I can't even think of one.
Johanna Kulp: Zero, zero, We want to hear about Ask a Black Woman. And your book. But we'll start with the podcast. Go to the book next. You could take us on which I was talking about Ask a Black Woman since it was dropping today. But you can go to it. You tell us about whatever you want to.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: yeah! ⁓
Heather: We went, yeah. And your book. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes, so I... Well, which one first? Yeah, yeah. we had our first five episodes dropped today. I'm just so excited. Actually, there was like a fun project for me. I just wanted to do something fun, something less serious because my whole work is around like queerness, queerness, queerness, advocacy, advocacy. ⁓ my God. So I went, I'm new in Atlanta. I just moved here two years ago and I had to go meet this therapist at the mall called Ponce City Market.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: and we planned to meet in a book store. And I got to the place and I was like, oh my God, I don't know where the bookstore is. It's such a big place. I don't know where the bookstore is. I said, but I bet you if I asked a black woman, would figure out she would take me and show me the place. And so I just kept saying, OK, let me find the right black woman because I need to ask a black woman. And then I walk into the store and I see this lady walking on a hat. I said, ma'am, you I was looking for a black woman to ask. said, well, you found her. And I was like, you know where this is? Oh.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I got you. And then she takes me by the hand and shows me the person. I make the left hand, make the right hand. And I was going to be on right. And she was right. And so I kept saying, you know, ask a black woman. If you ask a black woman, you will get the answer. And I said, I wonder what I can do with that. Ask a black woman. I said, well, let me see if I make a post on threads and see if people will be like. And I made a post on threads and we've got like 35 or more people. I like, ⁓ my God, I want to come. I'm coming. I was like, what?
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, she was. Yeah!
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes, we want to come and then one person said wow, you have so many responses. Why don't you why don't you let us rotate hosting? And I was like ah Okay, so why don't everybody who comes on the show is a co-host and not a guest and so it was just a play on ownership of Your episode so it's like you are co-hosting and so what we're doing now is so far kind of like
Johanna Kulp: Ooh! I love it.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: made itself, you know, so I asked a few questions at the beginning, but because it's called Ask a Black Woman podcast, people are not even realize that there's an Ask a Black Woman podcast already that exists. know that, but mine is only on YouTube for now. So it's only on YouTube. But anyway, so they come in with a question. If you've ever wondered, well, I wonder why such and such and such bring that question to us. Cause like, I don't know what to ask. Well, just, okay. Have you ever wondered why something, okay. come with that question and then you answer it. Oh, we try to answer it together. And then on your way out, you ask a question of the audience and then let the audience answer. I just want people like interacting with the show. And let me tell you, on Wednesday we had 22 subscribers. I was like, know, Mother's Day is around the corner. Let me see how hard I can go to try to get to 100 by Mother's Day.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, I love it! That's such a great idea! Yeah. Or you made it.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: 105 today, 105!
Johanna Kulp: I I followed. I followed. I was like, like and subscribe. I'm in. I'm in. Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes! Thank you so much. I could not believe, I mean, one of five, as at last evening, I gave a talk, a Mother's Day talk, the same one I was talking about before we went live, and at the end I was like, you know what? Ladies, I have this podcast. We're currently at 87. Please, can y'all just subscribe? And they did, and we're at 99. And I was like, okay. And my friend Cynthia and I were walking out, and I was like, Cynthia?
Heather: Yeah. That's awesome.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I'm going to ask the first black woman I see to subscribe. And she's like, yeah, right. I said, try me. And that's exactly what I did. And so I asked this lady, was her family. They were eating and I said, ma'am, my name is so and so, and this is what I'm trying to do. And I need one more person to get to 100. She brings out her phone and then the phone is dead. And then her husband comes and says, what's happening? And they were telling me, he said, oh, I got it. He brings out his phone and his phone is dead.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, I would believe you would.
Heather: like right there.
Johanna Kulp: ⁓ no!
Dr. Lulu She/Her: The whole time, their 12 year old daughter is like, I got you. I'm right there. And I said, trust the millennials or the Gen Z, the Gen Alphas, their phone isn't always charged. And boom, she was number 100. I was like, oh my God. And so her parents said, we promise you, once we get to our room and we charge our phones, we will subscribe. And by 10 o'clock when I looked at my phone PM, I had 102. So was like, it must have been both parents.
Johanna Kulp: On our phone. Yeah. Yeah.
Heather: I love this. This is such a great story.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Their phone is never dead.
Heather: ⁓ that's true. That's awesome.
Johanna Kulp: I love it. Yeah? Yeah?
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And then this morning my friend was like, no, you are 105. I'm like, really? She's like, yes. I'm like, okay. And so my mother is number 105. Cause I told her, said, And so she's going to come on the show. She's going to come on the show. think it's going to be fun when she comes on the show because my mom has a lot to say. So I think I'm going to make my mom my recurrent cohost cause my mom has a lot to say and she's never really had a platform. She's just always been our mother and she's very educated, but I know she has some questions.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, you're like, get on this.
Heather: rate.
Johanna Kulp: That's awesome. Woo! I love it.
Heather: Yep.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So I'm going to have my mom come on the show. She was like, sure, I will. said, yeah, I'll get my brother to figure out the kinks on like Zoom and whatever so she can come. But I knew she's going to come. Yeah. So it's going to be amazing. Thank you. Yeah. So please, it's on YouTube. And it's obviously for black women or anyone who identifies as a woman who is also black or person of color. think we're eventually going to open up. there's so many who just want to say something.
Johanna Kulp: tech stuff. Like and subscribe everybody.
Heather: That is awesome. Yep. No, keep it.
Johanna Kulp: I just put together how many safe you're creating. How many safe spaces you're creating. Like you as a, ⁓ about a matriarchy, like what you're doing. Can you
Heather: ⁓ That's ⁓ Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Oh, well, I try. Yeah, try. Oh, Yeah, yeah, a lot. Because we have the mom and mama beast of my reetta movement. That's for that's for parents of queer kids. We've got my bi monthly Pride open mic nights where we just come just for queer folks just come and just read your book, read your poetry, do whatever you want to talk about. Then we have our affirm health care.
Heather: Yep. Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: ATL, affirming healthcare ATL, which is a very special space. We've had two of those events. They're red carpet, dress up, really nice. We have Nigerian food and it's physicians or healthcare professionals in the same space as their queer patients, which is a space that's never been created before. So doctors...
Heather: Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Yes.
Heather: So good.
Johanna Kulp: ⁓ I love that.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: get to hear from their queer patients, queer people get to hear that also from their doctors, because I am both. I am both. So why not create a space where both of us can be and learn about each other without the side eye from the queer people and the hesitation from the doctors, which is what gave birth to my new book, which is called, ⁓ First Do, yeah, it's titled First Do No Further Harm.
Heather: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Heather: Yes, perfect.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: becoming allies in white coats. So I want them to recognize that your oath says first do no harm. I get that. But the patient coming nine times out of 10 is already carrying some harm. So whatever you do, do no further harm. So further, the emphasis is on the further. And that came because one day my kid came back from
Heather: rate. Yes. Hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Planned Parenthood. And was in like the princess that she's like, mom, I'm done. I said, done with what? ⁓ I'm done being the token patient to teach my doctors. I'm done always having to explain stuff to my doctors. I'm just tired of it. And I thought it was just my kid. But then my friend Tamara, who is a six foot seven lesbian, who's Canadian said, I hate my doctor. I was like, why? Tamara, that's a very, she said, yes.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: ⁓
Dr. Lulu She/Her: For the past 10 years, I've been going to the doctor, I've been telling them for the past 10 years, I do not have sex with men. And still, every time I come, they're like, oh, so do you think you're pregnant? How am I gonna get pregnant? And she I'm just tired of it. I'm just tired of them trying to pregnant to test on me because it's never gonna happen. And so I think there's a frustration there of not being heard. Come on.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Heather: Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-mm.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yep, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And then I had a personal experience too. My ex-wife and I, every time we went to the doctor, she said, come with me to go see the doctor. I was like, okay, sure. And then never, ever, not one time did anybody ever ask us, so who is this person? Who are you? And so we never got a chance to say we're wife and wife. Like, it just never happened. And so there's this erasure or this assumption that because they're two women, we have to be cousins or friends or neighbors or colleagues.
Johanna Kulp: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Sisters, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: You could also be wives, exactly. mean, or just ask, you know, so what's the relationship? And then we will tell you, gladly, you know.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: ask.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So just the need for physicians to think outside the box. Same thing about the parenting, think outside the box. Almost assume that one of your kids may very well be queer so that you be prepared, right? But for the doctors specifically, 10 to 12 % of US adults identify as members of the LGBT community. So that means if you have 2,000 patients, 200 of them. And so the question is, do you know all 200?
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Or are they hiding in plain sight?
Heather: There you go. Yeah, she's holding up her book when she says that. It's great. She's good. Yeah, black transgender child hiding in plain sight.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah,
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yeah. So anyway, let's kind of
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah. Have you asked the questions and have you created the safe space in order for your patients to be able to be, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And have you gone through your own unlearning? I mean, have to, it's an unlearning process. I'm constantly unlearning myself. I I don't know everything. I don't, I'm not a transgender person. So I don't have any lived experience. I don't know what it's like to be trans, but I do know what it's like to walk into a room and even though I'm the keynote speaker, someone is asking me, well, ma'am, do you work here? I said, no, I'm the keynote. They're like, ⁓ you are, yes. I'm here, I am.
Johanna Kulp: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm on the keynote here.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I there's nothing wrong with working here, but it's like, just there's assumptions. And even though my name is doctor and it's like, yeah, so, but are you a real doctor? No, I just play one on TV. I mean, what do you want from me?
Heather: No. Yep.
Johanna Kulp: What kind of question is that? Yes.
Heather: How am I supposed to answer that?
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And so these days I just jokingly say, my name is Dr. Lulu. It's like Dr. Dre, but I went to med school. Because Dr. Dre, we don't know, he never went to school, but everybody calls him Dr. Dre. Nobody asks him, are you a real doctor? Nobody wants to know. And that's also part of the patriarchy, right? Not asking questions of men or not, or just assuming that men know. But they have shown us repeatedly that they don't know diddly squat.
Johanna Kulp: There you go. ⁓
Heather: I, ⁓ man, that's chef's kiss.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, Nah, it's Dr. Dre. It is. It is.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. No, time for the matriarchy. Time for the matriarch.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: about women's bodies. I mean just something as simple as Viagra. It took six weeks I think or six months to get approved and the equivalent of it in women took like six years or something.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Heather: I know. I know, I know. Such a good point.
Johanna Kulp: It's crazy. It's crazy. Women's health is so underfunded and under researched. ⁓ Before we miss it, when does the new book drop? Do we have a date for it? Hopefully by the end of May. All right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Hopefully by the end of May, honey, let me tell you, I'm trying to get it out before pride month. Can I? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I know it's going to come out this year. I know it's going to come out this summer, hopefully by pride month, because in July, I'm going to Puerto Rico to speak at the National Medical Association, which is like the association for black physicians. And I want to have my book in my hand.
Heather: Okay.
Johanna Kulp: Okay, okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Heather: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, that's place. Yeah. Maybe you should have both. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: But if I don't, then I'm going to have this one, or I'm going to have a fake one of that book, because I want people to know to start out. And so the book, talks about, it's like a field guide, really, for physicians to become affirming providers of their LGBT patients.
Heather: you
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: and being the leaders of their practice, you know, in the sense that knowing that the patients have to find you, they have to feel safe, and they have to trust you enough to come back.
Johanna Kulp: necessary.
Heather: Yeah. Yep.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So those three things, that's actually one of the concepts I teach actually is a trademarked IP. Find me, feel safe, trust me. So how did they find you? You have to speak out about it. You have to have your pronouns on your email thing, on your Zoom thing. You have to talk about the fact that I have a practice and we are affirming. And you're not just saying it so you can get on my website because I have a resources page. No, you are saying it because you are actually affirming. And that means the front offices are fine.
Heather: Yeah. Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Yep, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: is affirming. That means your website is affirming. That means in your office, I see evidence that my queerness is welcome here. That means your bathrooms are not segregated, if I may well use that term. That means that there's gender neutral bathrooms. It's just a three minute, that means when I walk into your room, I can see maybe a rainbow.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yep.
Heather: Yes.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: flower pot like I have over here in my study. Or I can see you're wearing your pin, your pride pin. Or you're like me and you permanently have this. Or when you're feeling iry, you have that, right? Or just however, Yeah, just having evidence that you are indeed affirming. And because honestly, your patient who is trans, who may go there, is honestly not looking for perfection from you.
Heather: Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Yep, yep.
Heather: Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: You have the big earrings. She's got big earrings on. Rainbow earrings.
Heather: Mm-mm.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: They just want to be able to come to your office and go home in peace. They don't want you to say, ⁓ so you're trans. Awkward silence. Also, they don't want you to send them as a referral to an unaffirming dentist. So it's also you doing the homework. It's also that your front desk office does not say,
Heather: Yes. Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, nope, nope.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Michael and then the person says hi and they're like you're Michael? Like your party shows like yeah I am Michael right or on the phone you hear my voice you're like sir like no I'm a man
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Right.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, they need to be trained, yeah.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: awkward silence, all of those little, little things that we take for granted. And I tell them, say, listen, they always want to on gender affirmation. And I say, you know, before you get to the gender affirming care, which anybody can Google the dose of testosterone.
Johanna Kulp: Mm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: They're little, little, little things. When they're filling out their names, do you have space for them to put their preferred name or their personal pronoun? So I use the correct term. It's a preferred name and a personal pronoun, not a preferred pronoun.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yep.
Heather: you Yep.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And making sure that that's correct on your forms. Yep.
Heather: I like that.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Are you giving them room to be themselves on your form? Are you using the term that they use to call their body? This is chest for some people, this is breast for some people. Ready?
Johanna Kulp: Yep, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Hmm.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Are you calling them a birthing parent as opposed to a mom? Are you using the words that they're using for their partner? Because my ex-wife, my wife, ner. It was just a nice, fun term. I like wife ner because she was my wife and my partner. So if I call her wife ner, do you call her wife ner? So just being aware of those little, little things that the patient is aware of.
Heather: Right.
Johanna Kulp: Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Are you adapting that language? Yeah.
Heather: Yeah, matters.
Johanna Kulp: Yep, yep.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And here's the thing, it may not be the patient. It could be Joanna who comes to my clinic. And because Joanna sees that I'm an ally, Joanna goes home and tells Heather, that doctor, you want to go to them. So it doesn't have to be the patient. So it's much bigger than just.
Johanna Kulp: Mm-hmm.
Heather: Mm-hmm. Yes, that's right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: giving medicines or thinking that gen affirmation is only hormones and surgery. My kid, and I can say this with my full chest, my kid said, mom, I actually like my body parts. So if you ask 100 trans people about transition, you will get 100 ways to transition. Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Duh. Mmm.
Heather: Totally. 100%.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So I want the physicians to know that this is not stuff we were taught in medical school. And even if they were taught in medical school, they were not taught by someone who has lived experience as a queer physician, mother of a trans kid. So when I say the work found me, I'm not joking.
Johanna Kulp: thousand percent.
Heather: Mmm, it did. So good.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, no, it did.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Literally, it found me. And so I just got hired by one of the schools here to teach the physician assistant school about LGBT. they were like, we just want you to tell us about the hormones. I said, ma'am, I know what you want, but that's not what you need.
Johanna Kulp: ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Heather: Yes, I love that.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And I said, because anybody can Google the dose of, listen, doses change all the time. However, if I am not conducting myself right, you can write all the medicine you like. I'm not coming back to you.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah.
Heather: Yep, that's right. That's good.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yep, yep.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And how much is it gonna cost your practice if the patient leaves? And not just the patient. Your coworkers are queer. Hey, I'm queer, right? Your employees are queer. Hey, I'm queer, right? So it's not just the patient. It's also the employee whose child is trans. Can I bring my kid to work?
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: So good. Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yep, yeah, yeah. It's inclusive, yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: You see how much bigger, so that's why the book, that's why the book is necessary for them to think of all these bigger things and no one is really thinking. I'm very proud of myself, honestly. You know, I'm going to give myself a break. The way I said that, want, if you all can please transcribe that piece for me because everything I said now is the totality of why physicians hesitate.
Heather: That's good. Good. Yeah. That's right.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, you should.
Heather: Yes.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: They don't know what they don't know, true? They're not trained and like everyone else we've been fed the wrong information about queerness. Somebody told me that yes, yes, we learned about queerness under our difficult patient course.
Heather: Mmm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah, that's really horrible. That's really upsetting. ⁓ my God. That's really upsetting. That's not the place for that. That's not the place for that.
Heather: Right.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes! That's not the place for that. And you know what? There should never be a difficult patient.
Heather: Mm-mm.
Johanna Kulp: No, no, there are patients and there are you. Yeah, good God.
Heather: you
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Yes! You cannot make this stuff up. And you know me, I just take screenshots all the time. Because everything I hear is for, the person who said that about the thing around my wrist, that's part of my class. I teach that. Because this is another physician that said this. Somebody else said, ⁓ I should be stripped of my license and put in jail. I put that also because these are physicians.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Heather: Yes.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, it's so important that they're listening to you too.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: So who is safe for my kid? You two can oath to first do no harm and you're saying this to me? My kid is not safe with you. You're gonna give her a little dose of Tylenol.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, who is safe?
Heather: Yes. Right. How. Mm-mm.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, yeah, that... One might call that harm. Yeah, one might call that harm. One might call that harm.
Heather: Dr. Lulu, am, again, as somebody who has family members, I am so unbelievably grateful for your work. Thank you. Thank you for what you've done and what you're doing. Sorry, I'm getting a little emotional, but I am so grateful for your work. Thank you.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Thank you.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I know, I see that. Thank you so much, Heather. I know you felt that. I can tell you felt that and I feel that. I'm gonna just give you a hug.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah. Ooh, love it.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: I appreciate that so much. And if you need a moment, take a moment. We're human, we're human. This whole, it's part of the picture that women are strong. We're not, we're just human. We're strong and we're not strong. mean, whatever. It's like, you know, if we need to cry, we need to cry. Yes, it's part of that. So yeah, we'll take a moment and let you kind of, you know, regain.
Heather: ⁓ sorry.
Johanna Kulp: Heather said she wasn't gonna get emotional.
Heather: I might need a moment. Sorry. Whoo!
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, Emotions are also strong. having that emotion is strong. Yeah.
Heather: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: your stance and that's okay. And Joanna, thank you for holding space for your sis because this is real. This is real because the un-living is real. We don't want you to send us thoughts and prayers. Fuck your thoughts and prayers. Fuck them. Before you ask me the question, I'm gonna read, hopefully Heather, this will be for you. If you are crying now, if you're crying now.
Heather: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Heather: Yes, please. Okay, get ready.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And so this is a poem. This is actually the first thing that my book is titled Why Not You. Why Not You. I hated God. I hated myself and I hated the world. On Christmas Day two years ago, this was in 2022, my phone rang. It was my eldest child. She called to tell me something. It was urgent. It was important. It couldn't wait. I could tell. I could tell. It wasn't Merry Christmas, Mom. It wasn't how are you doing, Mom? It wasn't I miss you, Mom. It was Mom, I'm trans. Words no parent ever wants to hear, ever. And so for three long weeks after that day, I simply laid on my couch and cried. You gotta be kidding me, Lord. Really? This? Haven't I been good? Haven't I done everything you asked of me? Why me? I mean, for seriously though, why the fuck me? The funny thing is, I remember when I was first pregnant, how much I prayed for a little girl. To dress up pretty, to do her hair, to go shopping with, to do girly things. And I was on a boat ride in New Orleans and the card reader made me pick cards and she said, you picked a prince. He is fair of face and he is filled with a girl's grace. You have a son, but he has a girl in him. And this is true story, true quotes. That's exactly what the lady said. You have a son and he has a girl in him. And I was like, what the fuck?
Johanna Kulp: Mm. Mm. Mmm, that was a good scene.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: And even before the child turned two, I could see the signs.
Johanna Kulp: Yeah.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: No, not my son, not my first, not the one. Take the other, take another, take someone else's child, but just not mine. I pleaded with the great divine. My heart was broken, my soul was crushed, my spirit shattered and my mind shredded in pieces because I knew the world would hate the child. I knew the world would blame its mother. I knew the child would be condemned and I didn't want any part of that. Stop acting like a girl was my mantra. You're not a girl, you're a boy. For goodness sakes, you're not a girl. Shame, guilt, confusion, anger, dread, overwhelm, you name it, I felt it. And sure enough, soon enough, my husband blamed me. My mother judged me. My aunt dared me. The world was watching me. Finally one day I heard it loud and clear. It was God's voice like thunder. Why not you, my child? Why not you? You're a physician, a Nigerian, a mama beast, a rebel, an agitator, a warrior. Why not you? How dare you question me? How dare you? Haven't I given you everything you ever asked before you even asked? Haven't I always been there even before you knew it? When have I ever misled you? The air you breathe, the food you eat, the ground you walk on, the strength you need, who gave them to you? Now you question me? How dare you? Haven't I always made a way? Haven't I always sent you help? Why not you? Your patients love you, their parents adore you, you speak and the world listens, you cry and the world cries with you. You fight and I fight for you. So dry your tears, love. Prepare for battle. Go forth. I got you. And don't you ever ask me again, why not you?
Johanna Kulp: Mmm.
Heather: I just, again, I think we should end with that. That's, that's it. That's it. ⁓ Why, yeah. Amen to all that. That's all I got. Amen to all that. Yeah. Thank
Johanna Kulp: Yeah, I don't need a question in there. That's it. That's so powerful. Amen to all of that.
Dr. Lulu She/Her: Thank you all so much for having me. I love you.