O TYM ODCINKU
A remodel can look perfect on Pinterest and still go sideways fast once the first wall opens. We talk with Rich Cook of Kocon Construction about what it takes to deliver high end home remodeling and renovation work without losing the client’s trust when timelines shift, surprises show up, or budgets get tested. Rich specializes in custom carpentry, fine trim, cabinetry, and start to finish renovation planning, and he’s blunt about the difference between “getting it done” and doing it right.
We get into the emotional side of construction project management: setting expectations early, explaining the real sequence of work, and treating change orders like a communication problem before they become a relationship problem. Rich shares how he stays upfront about unknowns like leaks or termites behind the wall, why integrity sometimes means taking a loss, and how consistent updates keep homeowners confident through the messiest phases of a project.
Then we zoom out to the business side. Rich breaks down the biggest bottleneck for contractors right now: skilled labor and finding people who match your standard. We also talk delegation, leadership, and the unglamorous back office load of estimating, insurance, scheduling, billing, and subcontractor coordination. He walks us through his systems from estimate to production, including a design team for renderings and client communication tools like Housecall Pro. Finally, Rich shares what’s next after earning his Class A builder license: new home construction and a longer term path into development.
If you’re a homeowner hiring a contractor or an entrepreneur trying to scale a service business, you’ll pull practical lessons from this conversation. Subscribe, share this with a business owner who needs it, and leave a review, what’s the hardest part of growing your company right now?
CONTACT INFO:
koconconstruction@gmail.com
High Retention - Short and Sweet
Thanks for Listening. You may contact me or our team at https://billgilliland.biz/
All the best!
Bill
Please hit the subscribe button, leave us a 5 star review, and share this podcast. You can reach me at williamgilliland@actioncoach.com or at https://billgilliland.biz/
POKAŻ NOTATKI 🔗
TRANSKRYPCJA 🔗
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Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs.
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I am Cliff McCray with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners who turn big ideas into real scalable growth.
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Today I'm excited to be joined by Rich Cock uh Rich Coke.
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I'm sorry.
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Let me do that again.
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I knew I was gonna do that.
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I knew I was gonna do that.
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All right, let me do it again.
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Let me do it again.
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All right, give me a second.
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I'm gonna put some dead air.
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Make a note.
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Cook.
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Cook, yeah.
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Today I'm excited to be joined by Rich Cook with Kocon Construction.
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Rich, how are you doing today?
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I'm doing well.
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How about yourself?
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Yeah, I'm doing great, man.
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Hey, I'm really, really doing great.
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Really excited to have you on and learn more about uh Kokon construction.
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So, yeah, man, if you don't mind, let's go ahead and jump right into it.
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Yeah, sounds great, man.
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Thanks.
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All right.
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So, you know, kind of tell me a little bit about what you got going on.
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You know, what's Kocon Construction and what do you provide for the community?
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So, Kokon Construction, we are a remodeling and renovation company.
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As we speak now, we're progressing into building and development in the upcoming years.
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So we provide high-end carpentry and remodeling down to trim work, fine details, helping, you know, plan a whole build or additions to houses and whatnot.
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So that we're we're kind of in the market.
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Like I said, we I just got my building license and whatnot.
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So we're gonna start progressing into doing full development and builds.
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So as of now, we're kind of in our niche for the remodel and renovation side right now.
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Okay.
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And who is Rich Cook as a person?
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What do you got going on in your personal life?
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Any hobbies or anything?
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I'm a big sports fanatic.
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I guess my hobbies now are my kids.
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My kids are my life.
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I coach baseball, my son's baseball team, my daughter, she's in the gymnastics and everything.
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So my hobbies now are more consumed with my kids.
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I do like to golf occasionally.
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I don't get to do it as much as I like, but I'd say between the kids and golf and you know, family trips and vacations, that's kind of what I live for nowadays.
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Hey, good deal, good deal.
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Now, kind of get into it, and you know, kind of your business a little bit, you know.
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Rich, you have been you have more than 15 years into trades and launch COCON in you know, 2019, was it right?
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Yep, yep, that's correct.
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Yeah.
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So what finally made you decide to build the company under your your own name and standards?
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So it was a long time coming.
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I always wanted to be a business owner, but I had been working with companies and didn't see much like, you know, growth within the companies and was kind of you know doing a lot of the manual labor for people that were never on site.
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And I was like, took took to myself to like, you know, I could run these jobs and and do it.
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And so, you know, my when my fiance got pregnant was when I was like, you know what, it's either now or never.
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Let's take the leap of faith.
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So I was like, I'm gonna try my hand.
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So jumped off.
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I got my you know business license and everything.
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I was kind of, you know, at the bottom of the total pole trying to figure out how I'm gonna get all this work and come in since I just like turned out, like walked away from my other jobs.
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And then of course, like COVID hit right, right when it happened.
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So that was a really nerve-wracking time, but it was actually a blessing in disguise because we were essential employees at the time.
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So it actually helped my helped me launch the business, and and we've been taking off ever since COVID.
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Nice, nice.
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That's a nice redemption story there, especially with COVID.
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COVID was you know very negative, obviously.
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So that's cool that you made something positive out of it.
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You know.
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So, Rich, what type of project best represents what Coca Conn does at its highest level, would you say?
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I would say custom carpentry, like you know, for we love doing woodwork and things, cabinetry, uh, really converting people's houses and giving them the top-notch quality and craftsmanship they're looking for.
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You know, a lot of people struggle with finding the right people or people cutting corners and whatnot.
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And we take a lot of pride and doing it the right way and you know, planning from the start to finish with the designers and everything to make a project be exactly what a client wants and bring it to life.
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So, yeah, that my my ideal is really just start to start to finish planning and doing a renovation or bringing whatever needs a client wants to their forever home exactly how they picture it with a smooth transaction.
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Nice, nice.
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Now, home remodeling can get emotional because you are inside someone's biggest investment, right?
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Yes.
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So, what have you learned about managing expectations as much as managing construction?
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So I've learned it really communicating and and and having a real expectation on timelines, breaking it down to the simplest form for a client because some people don't understand what goes down on the back end of things or the timing and the planning that goes into it.
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So I like to bring the customers in and let them experience that and really see how it how it all comes together instead of just I want this, and your expectations are oh, the next day it's gonna happen.
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Doesn't really work that way.
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So we we were really thoughtful and try to plan things out accordingly and make everybody understand and all come together on the ideas.
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That's that's gone a long way for helping, you know, meet the expectations and and clients understanding how what to expect.
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Now I know customers often fear delays and surprise costs a lot of times.
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So how do you think about communication and change orders so customers still trust the process when something unexpected happens?
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I'd I try, and you know, you can't always be perfect, but I try to be realistic and let those things that could possibly come about be up front with them and then be open.
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And and you know, you never know if you open up a wall and termites have gotten in there, or you know, you got a leak or something in the wall.
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Those are just some things you can't expect.
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So I I try to tell clients to just be open-minded.
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I try to, you know, explain that this could be this and just leave that option open so that they're not startled when something comes about.
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And really, I take integrity on doing the right thing.
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So even if I have to take a loss or or don't make as much money on a job by doing it the right way, I still do it the right way.
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You know what I mean?
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Just because they hired they hired me to do the job the right way and they want it done the right way.
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So regardless if I accounted for that or not, and you know, the expenses there, we we try to make them understand everything up front.
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And if unforeseeable things come about, we we just we make them understand that uh we're gonna do everything we can to get that right for them.
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Okay.
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Now, how often do you see that happen?
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I mean, it's it's like I said, there's there's unforeseeable things when you start, especially a home remodel.
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So it's pretty frequent.
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So we always have that discussion in the contract before signing contracts and everything, that these things can happen.
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You know, being having the experience that I have in all the trades, it's not as frequent as as you'd expect, but there's always, you know, the unknowing that I can't predict.
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I don't have x-ray vision, can't see through the wall.
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So, you know, I really try to, you know, let them open their mind to that.
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And everybody's been pretty understanding from that sake.
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But I I'd say it's it's very not not very often that that happens because we try to tackle everything ahead of time.
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Okay, okay.
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Now, I don't know if I told you this, but we have a pretty large, you know, small entrepreneurship audience that listens to the podcast with us every week.
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So you'll need to be, you know, we're gonna get into now kind of the harder, harder hitting questions here.
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Uh, because you know, everything's not sunshine and rainbows, you know, everybody kind of wants to hear, you know, kind of the real stuff of what's going on, especially in this economic climate.
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So, you know, what would you say is the biggest challenge co-construct construction is dealing with right now?
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Honestly, I'd say the the biggest challenge is employment and having, you know, the good people that want to work and and carry our standard and craftsmanship.
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I think that's the biggest thing probably with any business is finding the right employees.
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And like for me, it was putting the hammer down and having other people run the business for me, like delegating my time where I'm not on site every day.
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And that that was the hardest thing for me, is because I meet with these clients and they know the expectation or I know their expectations and what I bring to the table.
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It's trusting your workers and building a good team to see that through for your clients.
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So that was the toughest thing, is it just setting, stepping back and putting the tool belt down.
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And then on on hindsight, another thing with that is, you know, I always thought running a bit a construction business was swinging a hammer.
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It's not.
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You really gotta, you know, it's estimating insurance, you know, subcontractors, scheduling.
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A lot more comes into it that you, you know, you don't realize when you're first starting it out, and when I did when I was younger.
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So those are the hurdles that I had to, you know, work through to get where I'm at.
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But I would say my number one thing is, you know, finding the right people to help you run the business.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And people don't realize how big that is, right?
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I I hear that a lot.
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That uh now do you think that's just uh is it a time thing?
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Is it a generation thing?
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What do you think is the issue with finding good employees right now?
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I think it's uh a little bit of both.
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I I definitely, I'd hate to say it, the generation now, it's a lot more tech savvy.
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So people are more prone to being on phones and you know, with AI and everything now, jobs are a little easier and being behind a computer at our desk.
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There's not many, at least for my trade, that want to be hands-on, you know, in the field doing manual labor.
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And I feel like that's kind of where we we've kind of blown up and we got we're like a little niche there because not many people want to do it anymore.
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And we do the quality old school craftsman style of you know, craftsmanship and whatnot, and not many people want to do that anymore.
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So I I think it's it has to do with the generation and how times are changing, like with the technology and what and whatnot.
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Yeah, yeah.
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No, I I totally agree.
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And and then not only that, like you said, but I think everybody and everybody wants to be a TikToker or YouTuber, exactly, streamer or something like that.
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You know, not everybody's gonna make it from there.
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There's only like a select few spots for everybody to to do that.
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But uh, it seems like all the kids now they want to, you know, you ask them what they want to do when they're kids.
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Like, because I got some nephews.
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I don't have any kids myself, but I got some nephews, and I ask them, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up?
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You know, I used to say when I was a kid, doctor, basketball player, or something like that.
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These kids nowadays, oh, I want to be a streamer, I want to be a TikToker, I want to be a YouTuber.
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It's like, no, that's gotta have some realistic goals.
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Not everybody's gonna be able to do that.
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There's only so many spots, so you gotta have a realistic goal.
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You know, you can you can actually go to school and become a police officer.
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You can actually go to school and become a tradesman.
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Those are things you can actually do.
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And I'm not saying you can't be a TikTok or YouTuber, but it's just a lot, it's a lot harder.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, I agree.
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You say you're a big sports guy.
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What's your sports team?
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Oh man, let's not get started on that.
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I'm a big time Raiders fan, unfortunately.
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Oh hopefully, hopefully we got some we we've been saying we're rebuilding every year.
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Hopefully, uh we see that through with our our new quarterback we got, but I don't get hot hopes.
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Yeah, Mendoza.
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I mean, he looks, you know, he looks all right, you know.
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He does, he does.
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I think he's gonna be all right, but we got still got some growing pain, growing pains to get over.
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I think a couple years from now we might be all right, but uh yeah, not much to cheer for there.
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And then, you know, I got my son being a Raiders fan now, and he hasn't got to really cheer for much, so I feel bad for him on that.
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But we're big Crosby fans, so he uh he's all about his Max Crosby got jerseys and everything, so yeah, our Raiders haven't given me much pleasure the last over the last decade.
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Yeah, at least he got Crosby though.
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I mean, you know, I was scared that he was gonna get traded there for a while.
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Well, he did, and then he just fell back in our lap, so you know, some things happened for a reason.
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Yeah, yeah, because they tried to trade him when they was it to the Ravens?
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Was it yeah?
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The Ravens, yeah.
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They had him, and I guess he failed a physical, and then they they sent him back.
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So hey, we're happy to have him.
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Don't get me wrong.
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Yeah, probably the best player on the team overall.
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For sure, for sure.
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100%.
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Yeah, yeah.
00:13:20.199 --> 00:13:21.559
But yeah, kind of getting back into this.
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What you know, what is what have you noticed is kind of the recurring frustration that takes more of your time or energy than it should when running your business.
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Honestly, man, all the back end work.
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I guess it goes back to me wanting to be more hands-on with everything, but uh I I've learned over the last two year or two that like I'm wearing too many hats.
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So the frustration is like just all the billing, all the keeping up with the insurances, you know, scheduling and all that.
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So, you know, like I say, delegating time and like really uh hiring like assistants and whatnot to step in to do these roles, those would be the been the big biggest frustrations for me.
00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:05.799
Now, about how many hours a week are you personally running the business or working on the business right now, would you say?
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Um, I would say I mean easily 40 hours a week, if not more.
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Just because I like I said, I I run multiple at least four or five jobs a week.
00:14:16.199 --> 00:14:24.759
So I'm, you know, constantly meeting with clients, my project managers, you know, doing the back end stuff, you know, the invoicing and all that.
00:14:24.839 --> 00:14:34.599
So I still treat it as like a 40, 40-hour a week job, you know, but I do have my freedom to where, you know, I can pull off and be with my kids and do those things.
00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:45.719
That was that was that was my big reasoning on starting the business was, you know, I I I didn't grow up with a father figure around and I wanted to be everything to my kids.
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My father wasn't, you know.
00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:53.719
So to give the financial freedom and time, that's kind of why I started the business.
00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:54.439
Yeah.
00:14:54.919 --> 00:15:03.239
So I still have that freedom, but I still try to treat it like a for 30 to 40 hour week because my employee, your employees are only as good as you treat them.
00:15:03.319 --> 00:15:10.519
And I set high expectations for them and I try to let them know that like I'm not asking you to do anything more than I wouldn't do, you know.
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:17.479
So being out there, being hands-on and showing these guys like this is the right way, just just showing a work ethic, you know.
00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:22.279
I feel like that's a big thing for you know a lot of companies, especially in the construction industry.
00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.000
Yeah, no, I definitely agree with you on that.
00:15:25.239 --> 00:15:35.959
Now, you know, and I kind of want you to be a little bit, you know, you gotta be a little bit transparent, a little bit vulnerable here, but you know, because this is kind of a good question to ask, but it's kind of one of those where you're looking from the outside in, right?
00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:39.239
So, you know, how many employees do you have working for you right now?
00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:43.000
Uh I have six in-house employees currently working for me now.
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:44.919
Six employees, okay.
00:15:45.239 --> 00:15:51.719
So, you know, let's kind of let's kind of say that we kind of hypothetically sat down with some of your some of your employees, right?
00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:59.479
And we did an anonymous type of survey and we asked them straight up, you know, hey, what do you believe is, you know, Rich's greatest strength as a leader?
00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:01.000
What do you think they would say?
00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:03.159
I'm a leader of men.
00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:06.839
I I treat everybody fairly and evenly.
00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:19.479
I don't I don't underestimate any of them, and I think they would truthfully say I'm a leader of men, and that's why they staying behind me and and and do the quality work and work as hard as I do.
00:16:20.599 --> 00:16:21.639
Okay, okay.
00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:28.439
Now getting into that a little bit more, kind of, you know, I know because then I know what your employees think of you is different than what you actually think.
00:16:28.599 --> 00:16:31.639
Then what do you think is your greatest strength as a business owner?
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:34.199
Is it the same or does it change?
00:16:34.599 --> 00:16:47.399
I mean, it was it's the same, but I I just think just being genuine and you know, as a business owner, just being a big thing is like communication and how you present yourself.
00:16:47.719 --> 00:16:53.000
And I just I carry a high standard on, you know, I don't do a lot of marketing within the business.
00:16:53.079 --> 00:17:00.279
I a lot of it's word of mouth, so I try to grow customer relationships and that's what keeps our business thriving.
00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:05.079
So I think that communication thing is a big thing for me that I take a lot of pride in.
00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:06.599
Okay, okay.
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:09.079
Now we're gonna go to the other end of that spectrum, right?
00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:17.559
Let's say if we sat down with your employees and and asked them, you know, what's one leadership or business skill that Rich still needs to try to improve on right now?
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:19.720
What do you think we would hear from them then?
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:22.680
That's a good question.
00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:24.039
Nobody's perfect.
00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:26.120
Yeah, yeah, nobody's perfect.
00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:40.279
I'd say, you know, everybody would say a little bit more on like maybe management side of things because we have so much going on at one time, it's kind of hard to oversee everything.
00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:49.400
So I do kind of put a little more on my project manager's, you know, plate to kind of run the jobs a little more smoothly.
00:17:49.640 --> 00:18:00.279
But I mean, I honestly, like, like I said, nobody's perfect, but I feel like I do a very good job of accommodating and being realistic, and the expectations aren't too much for these guys to handle.
00:18:00.360 --> 00:18:04.759
So, you know, I'd really I'd like to know what that answer would be for my guys, truthfully.
00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:07.320
Yeah, no, that's always good.
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.200
It's always like, it's like, man, what what what do you think about, you know?
00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:13.000
Because, you know, there's I'm sure they're always thinking about something.
00:18:13.080 --> 00:18:14.039
I mean, that's just how it is.
00:18:14.120 --> 00:18:15.320
Nobody's perfect, like you said.
00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:20.519
So so, you know, kind of walk me through your handoff from estimate to production.
00:18:20.840 --> 00:18:25.320
Where have you had to create systems so jobs do not live only in your head?
00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:33.799
So I actually have so I work uh so a lot of mine, I do a lot of kitchen and bath designing and stuff.
00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:39.799
So I have a design team with some of the vendors that I work with and purchase cabinetry or my trim work through.
00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:43.880
So I, you know, from the estimate side, I get an estimate together.
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:55.160
I have my clients, I'll pass it over to my team that will draw the through 2D renderings for them so that they can get a visual of things before the project even starts or change anything.
00:18:55.320 --> 00:19:00.519
And then from there, you know, I put it in my assistant's lap to communicate.
00:19:00.840 --> 00:19:19.560
We have a text system uh House Paul Pro that they will send out text messages to clients, you know, when when our scheduled date is to be there with the plans, and every day with that system, we upload pictures into it, and our clients can get real feedback.
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:25.000
Say if they're not living in the house at the time and they want progress pictures, they get the progress pictures to there.
00:19:25.080 --> 00:19:27.400
So it helps keep everything, each job.
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.039
Like I said, I run you know multiple jobs weekly.
00:19:30.120 --> 00:19:33.560
It helps keep everything organized in that aspect.
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:35.640
Okay, good deal, good deal.
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:39.720
Now let's kind of, you know, where do most of your customers come from right now?
00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.519
Is it from word of mouth, Google, you know, online ads?
00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:45.560
Majority of it is is word of mouth.
00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:54.279
That's why I say we we we take a lot of pride in our craftsmanship and making, you know, solid um connections with people in the areas.
00:19:54.519 --> 00:20:01.160
We've we've I worked with a lot of realtors, I work with interior designers because we do the high-end trim work.
00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:04.279
And then, you know, like I said, the word of mouth.
00:20:04.360 --> 00:20:14.600
Like I do have, you know, a website and we upload uh Instagram and Facebook weekly, but there's not many ads we we s we go on.
00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:30.680
It's really like the realtors, designers, you know, we got some local builders around the area that we we work for that, you know, when some of their recent clients or something need a need a renovation or a remodel because they don't, because the market's in a crazy position right now with interest rates.
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:32.920
They don't want to buy a new house, they want to remodel.
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:40.360
So they'll send them, you know, my way to you know, uh help them plan that project out and see that through.
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.360
But a lot of it is word of mouth.
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:43.000
Yeah.
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:44.200
Okay, okay.
00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:46.680
Now let's get into your competitors a little bit here.
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.720
You know, let's let's say if I'm talking with a couple of different places, right?
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:54.519
I'm talking with Carlos over here, and I'm talking with Jonathan over at this other company.
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:59.880
Why would uh why would someone want to choose your organization instead of the alternatives available to that?
00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:09.240
I would say because we are very thorough, we we we communicate well, you always have a point of contact, whether it's me or one of my project managers.
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:17.960
We give you real up-to-date progression and updates on your project with the app that I was just speaking about.
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:20.279
We have a design team.
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:25.160
We've we've been in the industry for years, we're we're well spoken for.
00:21:26.120 --> 00:21:30.279
And I'd say that sets us apart because of the integrity as well.
00:21:31.320 --> 00:21:34.920
We just we've we take a lot of pride in doing things the right way.
00:21:35.080 --> 00:21:49.880
And like I said earlier, whether if it costs us a little bit more on the back end, it uh it's better to do it right the right way now because it takes a while to build your reputation, but it takes one one bad mistake to ruin it.
00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.440
Yeah, no, yeah, no doubt about that.
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.480
Now, you know, what is your biggest, you know, tell us about the team kind of supporting you today.
00:21:57.560 --> 00:22:03.720
You said you have uh six other employees, kind of you know, what what pieces and who are the key people and what responsibilities do they own?
00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:07.160
So the key guys, I've got, well, it's it's pretty cool.
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:08.200
My brother works for me.
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.320
He's one of my my lead guys, he's one of the project managers.
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:13.720
So that alone has been awesome.
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:23.160
He, you know, he he runs jobs, he coordinates with my subcontractors, keeps them on schedule, just kind of keeps my jobs running smooth.
00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.440
My fiance works in office to help with the schedule.
00:22:26.840 --> 00:22:32.279
Scheduling, keep everything organized, does some of the billing, helps with estimating and whatnot.
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:35.560
Another employee is Chad, he's been my lead guy.
00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:40.039
He he he actually got on with me the month after I started my business.
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.279
And he, I mean, he's been amazing.
00:22:42.360 --> 00:22:44.440
He he's another project manager.
00:22:44.600 --> 00:22:54.519
So he kind of does a lot of things that Trevor does, helps, you know, keep keep the project moving around along on schedule, coordinating the subcontractors and whatnot.
00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:56.600
And then, you know, I've got Aaron.
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:58.440
He's been with me for Aaron Cheeks.
00:22:58.600 --> 00:23:01.080
He's been with me for going on four years now.
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:05.960
And he's another one of my lead guys that, you know, helps helps run the job smoothly.
00:23:06.120 --> 00:23:11.960
So those are the three top project managers and my fiance that help keep everything flowing.
00:23:12.360 --> 00:23:13.160
Nice, nice.
00:23:13.320 --> 00:23:14.440
That's awesome.
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.120
Now, uh, and now we're gonna go ahead and head into what's called the this or that round.
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:20.680
Uh, so how this works is I'm gonna give you this or that.
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:24.039
And I want you to choose one of them and then kind of give me the reason why you chose it.
00:23:24.120 --> 00:23:29.720
It's kind of kind of a breakaway from all the business talk here to get somebody into your personal personal life a little bit.
00:23:30.120 --> 00:23:30.759
All right.
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:34.360
So, mountains or beach and why?
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:35.400
Beach.
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:38.120
I've I've always lived in the beach area.
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:44.200
There's nothing better than going and chilling on a beach on a nice hot day, having a nice drink, you know.
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.960
I used to like skin boarding and and surfing a little bit.
00:23:48.120 --> 00:23:49.799
Can't beat a beach day.
00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:50.759
Okay.
00:23:51.320 --> 00:23:52.759
Early bird or not out?
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:54.920
I'm an early bird.
00:23:55.080 --> 00:23:56.200
I'm an early bird.
00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:58.200
Feel like the early bird gets the worm.
00:23:58.360 --> 00:23:59.400
I was the first one up.
00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:05.240
I I tackle half of my on my task before some people wake up every morning.
00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:09.160
So I just feel like I'm ahead of the head of the curve every morning, every day.
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:09.799
Okay.
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:12.519
Cook at home or eat out?
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:14.120
Ooh, ooh.
00:24:14.360 --> 00:24:15.960
I'm a I'm an eat out guy.
00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:17.000
I'm not a great cook.
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.480
My fiance is a is an amazing cook, but we're on the go so much.
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:27.160
And with two kids and our work schedules and whatnot, I'm a more uh eat out type of guy.
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.480
Yeah, I got too much going on right now.
00:24:30.360 --> 00:24:31.960
Spend it or saving?
00:24:32.600 --> 00:24:33.320
Saving.
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:34.680
I'm big on saving.
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:36.279
I always like to have a fallback.
00:24:36.360 --> 00:24:40.200
You never know what can happen, so I always like to have a reserve there.
00:24:40.840 --> 00:24:41.240
Nice.
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:41.880
I like that.
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:42.840
I agree.
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:44.840
Netflix or YouTube?
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:48.120
I'm a Netflix guy.
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:49.720
Now, my son would hate me saying that.
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.039
He's all about YouTube, but I I go Netflix.
00:24:52.120 --> 00:24:54.360
I like to get into documentaries and shows.
00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:57.400
And so yeah, I definitely go Netflix on that one.
00:24:58.039 --> 00:24:59.240
Okay, okay.
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:02.680
Have a personal chef or a high or a housekeeper?
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:05.799
Personal chef.
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:06.680
Personal chef.
00:25:06.840 --> 00:25:10.759
Like I said, I don't cook, so if I could have somebody cooking for me, I could eat at home more.
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.279
He's like, I wouldn't go out so much if I had somebody cook it for me.
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.000
That's basically what you're paying out for, right?
00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:18.039
You pay for somebody to cook it for.
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:18.440
Yeah.
00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:22.840
Dream home or dream vacation?
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:25.880
Dream home.
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:26.920
Dream home.
00:25:27.080 --> 00:25:27.560
Yeah.
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:32.360
Just because you can always go on a vacation and you plan if you save enough.
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:35.240
Now dream home is a once in a lifetime thing.
00:25:35.560 --> 00:25:35.799
Yeah.
00:25:36.600 --> 00:25:37.320
That's very true.
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:38.680
Very, very true.
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:42.120
Would you like to, let's see how I can put this.
00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:49.320
Would you rather live a would you rather have dinner with your future self or relive a great day from your past?
00:25:52.600 --> 00:25:54.200
I would say future self.
00:25:54.600 --> 00:25:55.480
Future self.
00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.080
Future self is probably gonna be a little more knowledgeable than I am now.
00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.560
I've probably learned a lot from that from that person.
00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:04.519
So yeah, I'd I'd go with future self.
00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:06.759
Okay, okay.
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.920
And uh give up your phone for a month or give up TV for a year?
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:16.600
Give up phone for a month.
00:26:16.840 --> 00:26:20.759
You know, my phone never stops, so it would be nice to have a breather from that.
00:26:20.840 --> 00:26:26.920
And the distraction from scrolling on social media and all that would be nice.
00:26:27.320 --> 00:26:29.080
Yeah, I agree.
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:32.039
Unlimited money or unlimited vacation time?
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.039
Unlimited money, because then you can do all the vacations you want.
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:39.080
Yeah, that's I mean, that's pretty easy.
00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.920
Would you rather hire for experience or hire for attitude?
00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:44.200
It's always a good one.
00:26:44.360 --> 00:26:45.640
Ooh, that's a good one.
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:47.000
That's a good one.
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:58.200
Ooh, you know, experience is always great, but I feel like a good attitude, I can I I'm a very coachable person, and if you have a good attitude, you'd be willing to learn.
00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:02.120
And you know, that I feel like that trait would go a lot a long way.
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:09.560
Yeah, and and plus if I can't, if I don't, if I can't stand working with you, then it's not gonna work out.
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:10.840
Yeah, it's not gonna work out.
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:21.720
So I I I brought on people with experience, and some people just, you know, I have a certain way about going about things, and they have certain ways, and sometimes we just don't click, it doesn't work out sometimes, you know.
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:22.920
Yep, yeah, yep.
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:30.840
And then yeah, I've been in that too, where you just you, you know, they're very good at what they do, they're amazing at what they do, but then I I have to stand on pins and needles when I go talk to you.
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.440
Exactly because you know, you got this attitude or you got this, you know, whatever.
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:49.400
I feel like I'm coming at you wrong by telling you a different way to do something, and it's you know, so yeah, I I definitely attitude would be a big one because I feel like if you have a good attitude, you'd be willing to learn, you'd be coachable, and and and we would we'd be able to get you the experience as needed.
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:50.279
Yeah.
00:27:50.600 --> 00:27:52.600
Grow fast or grow steady?
00:27:53.320 --> 00:27:54.759
I'm a grow steady guy.
00:27:54.840 --> 00:28:02.840
You don't want to grow too fast because you know, if you don't have the right infrastructure for five jobs, then you definitely won't for 15.
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:10.600
So I think grow steady, grow a good structure and foundation, and that that's the that's the key to a successful business.
00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:12.519
Yeah, totally agree.
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:15.560
Take the risk or play it safe?
00:28:16.360 --> 00:28:17.960
I'm a I'm a risk guy.
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:19.320
I'm a I'm a risk guy.
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:21.000
You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
00:28:21.080 --> 00:28:22.279
You never know unless you try.
00:28:22.360 --> 00:28:30.039
You know, I I I am conservative, I play play, play ball safely, but I probably wouldn't be in the position I'm at now if I didn't take a risk.
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:36.360
So let's see here, and work from home or work from the office?
00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:44.279
I'd have to say office because too many distractions at home.
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:46.360
Office is a busy work together.
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:51.560
And build a huge company or build one that runs without you?
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:53.240
That's the last one.
00:28:56.120 --> 00:28:58.920
Build one that ha, that's a tough one.
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:04.120
I like to be hands-on, but I would say build one that runs without me.
00:29:04.360 --> 00:29:04.600
Okay.
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:06.840
And why do you and why would you choose that?
00:29:07.320 --> 00:29:14.759
Because if you can build a successful business that doesn't require all your attention, you have more free time or other opportunities to start another business.
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:22.039
So yeah, I I I'd and more more freedom with my family, uh I'd say.
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:22.680
Yeah.
00:29:23.560 --> 00:29:24.360
Yeah, that's true.
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:25.000
That's true.
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:29.480
And that and those are times that you that you definitely want, you know, because you can't get those days back, right?
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:29.880
Exactly.
00:29:30.120 --> 00:29:33.400
I don't think I don't think anybody ever said on their deathbed, hey man, I wish I worked a lot more.
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:34.680
Exactly.
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:35.240
Exactly.
00:29:35.480 --> 00:29:41.000
They always say they always, it's always, you know, I wish I spent more time with this person or spent more time with this person, so on and so forth.
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:42.039
So yeah, man.
00:29:42.120 --> 00:29:43.880
So all right, I appreciate that, this or that.
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.279
So, you know, a couple last things here, you know.
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:53.400
So what would you say kind of is your, you know, limits growth more for a contractor like Cochon right now?
00:29:53.560 --> 00:30:01.000
You know, would it be qualified labor, lead quality, estimating quality, uh capacity, cash flow, or project management?
00:30:01.320 --> 00:30:09.160
I would say, hmm, I would say uh more skilled labor, honestly.
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.320
And then you said something about estimating.
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:32.840
That's another big one that I've been really trying to get into because a lot of my time is getting consumed into you know meeting with clients and doing that end of things, where I've I've actually been looking into trying to hire somebody for that position because it would take it would give me like back to the delegate your time, you know, delegating time to where I could handle other things.
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:41.320
So those would be the two main for me would be you know skilled laborers and finding somebody that could help estimate estimates.
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:43.000
Okay, okay.
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:44.039
All right.
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:46.279
So what's next for uh CoCon construction?
00:30:46.360 --> 00:30:48.759
What should people be excited about coming up in the near future?
00:30:49.080 --> 00:30:50.600
So what's next for us?
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:55.960
I think I said it earlier in our conversation that you know I just got my class A building license.
00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:01.480
So we've kind of been just doing our custom carpentry and you know, remodels and whatnot.
00:31:01.560 --> 00:31:06.519
But now that I've got my builder's license, we're gonna be building new homes within the next year or two.
00:31:06.680 --> 00:31:18.120
And then, you know, I'm slowly gonna start getting into the development side of things so we can kind of develop whole, you know, new communities and whatnot, and then then do the new construction as well.
00:31:18.360 --> 00:31:22.519
So that's uh the next next three three or five year plan for us.
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:25.240
Okay, good deal, good deal.
00:31:25.560 --> 00:31:38.600
And uh, and and with this, you know, I you know, I kind of need you to be as candid and as honest as you can, but let's say if you know, if a business owner, small entrepreneurs listening to the podcast episode with you today, like I said, we have a pretty good sized audience of entrepreneurs that listen.
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:43.320
You know, let's say we're having an entrepreneur that's listening today and they're just feeling stuck or overwhelmed.
00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:45.400
2026 has just not been their year.
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:52.360
They unfortunately had to lay one of their best techs off because, you know, these, you know, cost of labor is just too much, or cost of materials is just too much.
00:31:52.600 --> 00:31:56.120
What's a piece of advice you'd give to that small entrepreneur today?
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:01.880
I would say, you know, it it'll all come back around.
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:02.759
Stay patient.
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:06.519
Not uh, you know, not everything's perfect at the at the same time.
00:32:06.600 --> 00:32:09.000
You know those are growing pains within a business.
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:18.600
Stay consistent to your values and how you want or your vision for your company, and everything will fall into place as long as you stay consistent.
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:21.160
Okay, okay.
00:32:21.560 --> 00:32:24.759
And we're recording this around you know the end of August here.
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:29.240
So, you know, this next question here would put us at about Thanksgiving, roughly.
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:36.200
So, you know, if there was one meaningful thing you could change in the next 90 days or by Thanksgiving, what would it be and why?
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.799
What would what would be one thing you would change about by the business in the next 90 days?
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:42.519
What I would change about the business.
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:45.799
Man, I love the business.
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:47.400
What I would change though?
00:32:47.560 --> 00:32:48.840
That's a tough question.
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:50.039
Really?
00:32:50.120 --> 00:32:52.519
That's a uh I don't really have a great answer for that.
00:32:52.600 --> 00:32:54.920
I kind of like what we what we got going on here.
00:32:55.160 --> 00:33:01.480
Like I say, I just want to I'd like to see just steady growth and consistency on how we've been operating.
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:05.080
I don't see much, uh I I don't want to change much, honestly.
00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:06.440
I don't want to change much.
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:06.840
Okay.
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:13.880
So, you know, as far as like you know, no, no hypothetical one, there's really nothing you would you would change at all.
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:15.960
First time we've gotten that.
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:21.320
I mean not honestly, no.
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:24.920
I mean, I don't I don't not nothing that rings like like really sets out to me.
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:31.560
Like I like I said, I've got a family uh ran business and we're we're doing very well and heading in the right direction.
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:40.440
And you know, the only thing that I would possibly change is I don't I honestly I don't have an answer for that.
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:42.200
Because I think we're doing well.
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:43.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:43.080 --> 00:33:45.240
Now now kind of get into what you talked about earlier, right?
00:33:45.320 --> 00:33:48.680
You say quote, one of the big things was you know, finding good employees a lot of time.
00:33:48.840 --> 00:33:53.000
Would you would you you know maybe hire maybe maybe if like the perfect candidate came on your lap.
00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:55.000
Yeah, well, yeah, in that aspect, yeah.
00:33:55.080 --> 00:34:03.640
So I guess yeah, what I would change is you know, finding, you know, more employees to help, you know, with my vision to help help build the company more.
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:09.320
You know, I want to see growth, but like, you know, I I'd like to see change in that aspect of things.
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:19.799
But yeah, I I'd say the employment, getting the right employees, people in position for my vision and how we want to see this in the next couple of years would be the biggest thing.
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:20.360
Okay.
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:21.639
Gotcha, gotcha.
00:34:21.799 --> 00:34:22.920
All right, perfect, man.
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:23.400
All right.
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:28.679
Well, Rich, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your behind-the-scenes story of building KOCON construction.
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:36.039
Uh, to everyone listening, be sure to connect with Rich and follow Epic Entrepreneurs for more conversations with the people building businesses and communities every day.
00:34:36.279 --> 00:34:39.319
So, Rich, before we go ahead and sign off, man, any final words for the audience?
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:41.079
Oh, thanks for having me, man.
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:43.719
Um, and uh, any entrepreneurs, man, don't give up.
00:34:43.799 --> 00:34:45.559
It's never gonna be perfect to start off.
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:47.000
Don't wait till it's perfect.
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.480
Just take the risk and see where it takes you.
00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:51.000
Yeah, no, he's definitely right.
00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:54.679
So, yeah, appreciate your your your well words, your wise words here.
00:34:54.759 --> 00:34:59.639
And yeah, everybody, this is Cliff McCray with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, and we'll see you next time.
00:34:59.879 --> 00:35:00.359
Thank you.