1
00:00:00,820 -->
00:00:03,080
Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.
2
00:00:03,370 -->
00:00:04,689
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
3
00:00:05,319 -->
00:00:09,859
In this episode, you will hear part two
of my conversation with Clea Ramos, a
4
00:00:09,859 -->
00:00:14,680
student studying Computer Engineering
and Studio Arts at Bucknell University.
5
00:00:15,619 -->
00:00:19,640
More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's
6
00:00:19,710 -->
00:00:21,629
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
7
00:00:21,630 -->
00:00:24,900
Full episodes of Digication Scholars
Conversations can be found on
8
00:00:24,900 -->
00:00:26,650
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
9
00:00:28,050 -->
00:00:33,580
So, yeah, let me ask you then, like,
what are your current view as a
10
00:00:33,580 -->
00:00:41,890
soon-to-graduate student, especially
Gen A... Gen, um, A.I., you know, became
11
00:00:41,939 -->
00:00:48,560
available to us two and a bit years ago,
but really became like pretty dominant
12
00:00:48,770 -->
00:00:52,150
probably in the last, let's call it a
year and a half, something like that.
13
00:00:52,200 -->
00:00:56,459
What, how has that been
like for you as a student?
14
00:00:57,495 -->
00:01:03,505
I remember when ChadGPT came out, I
believe the winter of my sophomore year,
15
00:01:03,845 -->
00:01:08,675
and students were using it for everything
at the time, and it was still pretty new,
16
00:01:08,675 -->
00:01:13,295
so I would just hear about it here and
there, and because it's Liberal Arts,
17
00:01:13,295 -->
00:01:17,170
I have friends in Engineering, I have
friends in Humanities, And I know the
18
00:01:17,170 -->
00:01:20,710
Humanities have been pretty strict on
it because their assignments comprise
19
00:01:20,710 -->
00:01:25,119
of mostly writings and readings, and
they don't want you to ask ChatGPT to
20
00:01:25,130 -->
00:01:28,550
summarize it or to write you a paragraph
that you're supposed to write yourself
21
00:01:28,559 -->
00:01:30,260
because you're not learning at that point.
22
00:01:30,599 -->
00:01:34,170
So I've taken a few classes in
humanities and some professors are
23
00:01:34,170 -->
00:01:35,919
very strict about it in that sense.
24
00:01:36,299 -->
00:01:42,340
But in, in the tech world and CompSci,
it's a really great tool for debugging.
25
00:01:42,350 -->
00:01:45,390
So you can put your code in it
and say, I have an error here.
26
00:01:45,600 -->
00:01:46,730
Can you please help me fix it?
27
00:01:46,770 -->
00:01:50,970
And it won't do it 100 percent
of the time completely correct.
28
00:01:50,980 -->
00:01:54,689
So sometimes you have to edit
your query and be more specific.
29
00:01:55,049 -->
00:01:59,039
Uh, but I remember I was very hesitant
to use it because it felt like cheating,
30
00:01:59,049 -->
00:02:01,460
and it was kind of a morality issue.
31
00:02:01,669 -->
00:02:07,179
And I've seen students who just
use ChadGPT to finish their whole
32
00:02:07,179 -->
00:02:09,909
coding assignment for them, which
is against the point of doing
33
00:02:09,910 -->
00:02:11,319
the coding assignment yourself.
34
00:02:11,329 -->
00:02:17,730
So, Uh, our professor, a lot of professors
in, uh, STEM and in coding, specifically
35
00:02:17,790 -->
00:02:22,429
CompSci, um, are for the use of it,
sometimes as long as you cite it or
36
00:02:22,720 -->
00:02:26,809
as long as you know the implications
of it and use it as a tool rather
37
00:02:26,810 -->
00:02:29,130
than using it to do your work for you.
38
00:02:29,400 -->
00:02:33,580
So in that sense, I think it is a very
efficient tool because it can save you
39
00:02:33,580 -->
00:02:37,570
hours of debugging or if you know how to
do something really quick, you can ask.
40
00:02:37,645 -->
00:02:40,785
chat, GBT, or any AI
to generate it for you.
41
00:02:40,825 -->
00:02:44,825
And I think some people are afraid
that it will take over our jobs,
42
00:02:44,825 -->
00:02:48,535
but it doesn't have, it doesn't have
that human aspect to it, like we were
43
00:02:48,535 -->
00:02:52,405
saying earlier, it doesn't, it doesn't
recognize the value that you're creating.
44
00:02:52,705 -->
00:02:56,145
So knowing that is, is
really important to consider.
45
00:02:56,164 -->
00:03:01,045
So I would say I am for using
ChatGPT, as long as you're using
46
00:03:01,045 -->
00:03:05,115
it responsibly and as a tool, and
it's very, it's a very powerful tool
47
00:03:05,115 -->
00:03:06,915
to accomplish things efficiently.
48
00:03:07,359 -->
00:03:09,950
But just to be sure you can't rely on it.
49
00:03:10,810 -->
00:03:16,489
I, I, by the way, I'm, I'm also very
much for using it e... responsibly.
50
00:03:16,710 -->
00:03:26,020
And I also think a lot about, you know,
for the convenience that it affords
51
00:03:26,020 -->
00:03:32,370
you and like, how else does it change
the way we think about this world?
52
00:03:33,140 -->
00:03:33,890
So like.
53
00:03:34,350 -->
00:03:39,420
I think about like in your case,
for example, I can already hear
54
00:03:39,430 -->
00:03:44,510
from certain engineers that
says, no, but Clea, you're wrong.
55
00:03:45,429 -->
00:03:48,989
It's the suffering of like
spending hours looking for that
56
00:03:49,240 -->
00:03:53,970
really, really little tiny bug
that makes you force you to learn.
57
00:03:54,180 -->
00:03:55,750
I used to be like that.
58
00:03:56,100 -->
00:03:56,440
You did?
59
00:03:56,440 -->
00:03:56,780
Yeah.
60
00:03:56,870 -->
00:04:00,110
And what changed or what are
you, do you still think that way?
61
00:04:01,115 -->
00:04:05,954
Well, because I was, I felt like, again,
like it was cheating, like I didn't learn
62
00:04:05,954 -->
00:04:13,205
from it, but now if you don't use it,
sometimes you're behind because other
63
00:04:13,205 -->
00:04:16,964
people will use it and generate it so
much more quickly than you can learn.
64
00:04:17,450 -->
00:04:17,750
Learn it.
65
00:04:17,760 -->
00:04:21,349
And because sometimes with a search
engine, you type in your question
66
00:04:21,349 -->
00:04:22,530
and you have to click on links.
67
00:04:22,530 -->
00:04:25,670
And sometimes it's not exactly what
you're looking for, whereas using
68
00:04:25,690 -->
00:04:30,180
AI, you type in your question and
it will provide more resources and
69
00:04:30,180 -->
00:04:33,550
exactly what you want, depending on
how clear you are in your comment.
70
00:04:33,830 -->
00:04:38,670
So it's that aspect of being
efficient, um, allows you to kind of
71
00:04:38,670 -->
00:04:40,850
get ahead and do things much faster.
72
00:04:41,320 -->
00:04:43,920
And I, let me, let me just
keep asking that, right?
73
00:04:44,050 -->
00:04:47,100
So if you got done something faster.
74
00:04:47,940 -->
00:04:48,710
What does that do?
75
00:04:48,750 -->
00:04:53,130
Does it give you more time to, what is,
what do you do with the time, like the
76
00:04:53,150 -->
00:04:55,820
hours of agony that it saved you, right?
77
00:04:56,090 -->
00:04:57,349
Yeah, but what is that like?
78
00:04:58,010 -->
00:04:58,840
So what now?
79
00:04:58,880 -->
00:05:03,669
Like you've just saved four hours
of looking for this really tiny bug
80
00:05:03,679 -->
00:05:07,159
that it just Turns out to be you
missed the semi colon somewhere.
81
00:05:07,400 -->
00:05:08,220
Happens, right?
82
00:05:08,350 -->
00:05:08,490
Yes.
83
00:05:09,630 -->
00:05:10,170
The semi colon.
84
00:05:10,260 -->
00:05:13,919
And, uh, so, so, so now
it saved you that time.
85
00:05:14,070 -->
00:05:16,459
What do you do with that
time because of that?
86
00:05:16,919 -->
00:05:23,340
Yes, so, I think, um, that it does save
time, but I, I make sure that I go back
87
00:05:23,349 -->
00:05:26,390
and read it to make sure I understand how.
88
00:05:26,485 -->
00:05:31,155
The, the code is being produced and what
it actually means, not just copy paste.
89
00:05:31,335 -->
00:05:34,965
Cause then at that point, I'm not learning
anything because sometimes with coding
90
00:05:34,965 -->
00:05:36,805
assignments, it just takes a long time.
91
00:05:37,015 -->
00:05:39,914
And a lot of the time is debugging
where you can just push it in and
92
00:05:39,914 -->
00:05:42,175
then it'll output what you need.
93
00:05:42,534 -->
00:05:47,310
So, um, I think it's more prevalent,
especially in my senior design
94
00:05:47,320 -->
00:05:49,680
project where we're on a timeline.
95
00:05:49,770 -->
00:05:53,180
So we have a year long project
with a client and we're supposed
96
00:05:53,180 -->
00:05:54,949
to deliver a product at the end.
97
00:05:55,230 -->
00:06:00,369
And we, since I'm project manager, I'm
setting the deadlines for each team
98
00:06:00,369 -->
00:06:01,980
member, you should be done with your.
99
00:06:02,000 -->
00:06:05,870
Block by this date, we need to
be done integrating by this date.
100
00:06:05,890 -->
00:06:10,080
So by saving time that way, it allows
us to make sure we're on track and
101
00:06:10,090 -->
00:06:13,509
on progress for our next steps in
the timeline, because in the real
102
00:06:13,509 -->
00:06:16,910
world, especially with software
engineering, you have things to deliver.
103
00:06:16,910 -->
00:06:19,769
You have a product to get
out to a client on time.
104
00:06:20,039 -->
00:06:22,330
So that time efficiency is important.
105
00:06:22,650 -->
00:06:26,690
And I find by the way, that real world
learning is so nice and so important.
106
00:06:27,040 -->
00:06:30,700
I wanted to talk a little
bit about this time aspect.
107
00:06:31,010 -->
00:06:35,520
A little bit more, if that's all right
with you, I sort of have this thesis that
108
00:06:36,669 -->
00:06:43,059
first of all, in your project, you're the
project manager, you probably are both
109
00:06:43,060 -->
00:06:46,500
a project manager and you probably do
some of the project as well, I assume,
110
00:06:46,610 -->
00:06:51,299
but you also take on that role of making
sure that the things run, run, run on
111
00:06:51,310 -->
00:06:55,760
time, uh, from everyone and they all
sort of get to, you know, can come, can
112
00:06:55,800 -->
00:06:58,410
coexist together harmoniously, right?
113
00:06:58,710 -->
00:06:58,980
Mm hmm.
114
00:06:59,435 -->
00:07:09,895
Number one is that I, I have found,
at least for myself, sort of pre-AI
115
00:07:10,075 -->
00:07:18,695
assistant, and this is like, I mean, I
think people think about sometimes like,
116
00:07:19,485 -->
00:07:21,254
Oh, you're in an education environment.
117
00:07:21,254 -->
00:07:23,804
It's different from if you're
in the real world environment,
118
00:07:23,824 -->
00:07:25,275
it is supposed to be painful.
119
00:07:25,275 -->
00:07:26,825
It's supposed to be this,
supposed to be that.
120
00:07:27,674 -->
00:07:30,825
Um, I don't know, I don't
really fully agree with it.
121
00:07:31,420 -->
00:07:35,670
You know, at my company, we have,
you know, like engineers and
122
00:07:35,690 -->
00:07:37,310
they work together and do things.
123
00:07:37,830 -->
00:07:40,659
They value learning very much themselves.
124
00:07:41,870 -->
00:07:45,629
They will use the tools
though, in whatever ways that
125
00:07:45,679 -->
00:07:47,720
they think is best for them.
126
00:07:47,729 -->
00:07:51,210
And best sometimes means more
efficient, but sometimes it's less
127
00:07:51,210 -->
00:07:55,380
efficient, but in order to understand
it further, um, just, you know, it's
128
00:07:55,380 -->
00:07:57,060
something that you have to understand.
129
00:07:58,265 -->
00:08:04,925
And especially sort of in, in the
current climate of AI getting more and
130
00:08:04,945 -->
00:08:06,875
more capable in coding and all that.
131
00:08:07,475 -->
00:08:07,895
Yeah.
132
00:08:07,905 -->
00:08:14,985
I mean, being able to debug faster means
that they have less, they, they spending
133
00:08:14,985 -->
00:08:18,794
less energy and time to the debugging,
which some people might say that that's
134
00:08:18,794 -->
00:08:23,034
where the art of, you know, coding
is, this is, you're supposed to suffer
135
00:08:23,034 -->
00:08:25,015
through that, um, so that you get better.
136
00:08:25,335 -->
00:08:31,555
But I will also argue that I observe in
our, in our, with our engineers, we may
137
00:08:31,555 -->
00:08:36,145
not have been able to ship something at
all if we didn't get that efficiency.
138
00:08:37,595 -->
00:08:38,095
So.
139
00:08:39,850 -->
00:08:44,860
And forget the fact that you have, in
your case, a client to deliver it to, if
140
00:08:44,860 -->
00:08:50,710
you didn't get to finish the entire cycle
and you slow down the rest of the team
141
00:08:50,770 -->
00:08:57,120
and all of the rest of it, you also get
less learning done because you were able
142
00:08:57,120 -->
00:08:59,439
to get through less of the whole process.
143
00:09:00,560 -->
00:09:01,080
Yeah.
144
00:09:01,080 -->
00:09:01,420
Yeah.
145
00:09:01,420 -->
00:09:06,410
So in some sense, that speeding
up of certain aspect of it, it
146
00:09:06,430 -->
00:09:09,140
also gave you more opportunity.
147
00:09:09,709 -->
00:09:13,219
To do, to experience things that
you never would get to be able
148
00:09:13,219 -->
00:09:14,989
to, to be, to be able to do.
149
00:09:15,470 -->
00:09:19,520
It's almost like if you were training
for a marathon, but somehow you can
150
00:09:19,520 -->
00:09:21,980
never run past the 20 mile mark.
151
00:09:22,410 -->
00:09:24,930
You would never know what
the last six miles look like.
152
00:09:24,930 -->
00:09:27,000
Mm-hmm . Yes, for sure.
153
00:09:27,005 -->
00:09:27,185
Yeah.
154
00:09:27,465 -->
00:09:32,760
So you kind of, you know, like the
efficiency gained also means you
155
00:09:32,760 -->
00:09:34,920
now get to run the last six miles.
156
00:09:35,160 -->
00:09:40,230
Mm-hmm . And having the entire
experience of finishing 26.2 miles.
157
00:09:40,790 -->
00:09:49,230
Is maybe better than having the
struggle at Model 15 to 18 so much.
158
00:09:49,235 -->
00:09:49,335
Yes.
159
00:09:49,885 -->
00:09:50,615
It's a balance.
160
00:09:51,030 -->
00:09:52,080
Yeah, it's a balance.
161
00:09:52,080 -->
00:09:57,310
Some people will just use chat and then
not, not have that struggle, and then
162
00:09:57,310 -->
00:09:59,920
it's frustrating to figure it on your own.
163
00:09:59,920 -->
00:10:01,750
Just basically flat out
like cheated, right?
164
00:10:01,750 -->
00:10:02,050
Yes.
165
00:10:02,319 -->
00:10:02,740
Yeah.
166
00:10:02,740 -->
00:10:02,741
Yeah.
167
00:10:02,755 -->
00:10:04,655
So it's a balance, like at some point.
168
00:10:05,490 -->
00:10:10,400
You, you need to balance the efficiency
because sometimes we get stuck on a
169
00:10:10,410 -->
00:10:14,469
problem and then we use chat and then at
some point you try everything and it's
170
00:10:14,480 -->
00:10:16,800
not worth spending time over debugging.
171
00:10:17,230 -->
00:10:19,520
You might as well just go to
the professor, go to office
172
00:10:19,520 -->
00:10:21,450
hours, get it solved in class.
173
00:10:21,729 -->
00:10:25,740
So it's a balance of like using
efficiency, but to some point it just
174
00:10:25,740 -->
00:10:29,160
doesn't work and you, and you just
have to figure it out and you do end
175
00:10:29,160 -->
00:10:33,245
up putting the hard work in, it's just,
you're skipping over the things that are
176
00:10:33,245 -->
00:10:35,935
more easily solvable by using ChatGPT.
177
00:10:36,275 -->
00:10:37,185
I think you're absolutely right.
178
00:10:37,185 -->
00:10:41,395
And this is the part that I sometimes,
you know, try to try to try to look at
179
00:10:41,405 -->
00:10:46,435
is you, you are, if you are someone who.
180
00:10:46,730 -->
00:10:50,290
Actually just have it do everything
for you and you just flat out
181
00:10:50,290 -->
00:10:51,630
just not spending any time.
182
00:10:51,640 -->
00:10:53,800
You're just, you know,
basically doing a poor job.
183
00:10:54,410 -->
00:10:57,409
What happens is that you get away
for a very short time anyway,
184
00:10:57,770 -->
00:11:00,729
because, you know, you, like you
said, it's a year long project.
185
00:11:00,770 -->
00:11:04,549
The project gets more and more complex as
it goes and things are interrelated and
186
00:11:04,800 -->
00:11:08,849
you really have to understand it for it
to actually, for you to even contribute.
187
00:11:09,219 -->
00:11:09,719
Because it builds.
188
00:11:10,875 -->
00:11:13,574
Yeah, if you are that team member
who's just like, I'm just going to
189
00:11:13,584 -->
00:11:18,605
paste in whatever, you know, after
a couple of months, maybe the first
190
00:11:18,605 -->
00:11:21,894
couple of months you are like, really
like just slacking and not doing
191
00:11:21,895 -->
00:11:25,074
anything, but after a couple of months,
I don't think you can even contribute
192
00:11:25,115 -->
00:11:27,205
at that team because you'd be lost.
193
00:11:27,215 -->
00:11:32,569
It'll be like outsourcing someone
watching a. You know, eight
194
00:11:32,569 -->
00:11:37,930
season-long, you know, series, you,
you've got to watch to know the plot.
195
00:11:38,319 -->
00:11:42,060
You can't follow it, you know,
if you're not part of it.
196
00:11:42,520 -->
00:11:48,389
Um, and I find that to be sort of like,
so, I mean, you, you'd learn that lesson
197
00:11:48,389 -->
00:11:52,800
relatively quickly, I think, you know, if,
if your projects are real world enough.
198
00:11:53,360 -->
00:11:57,090
I think it's problematic when the
projects are not real world enough,
199
00:11:57,420 -->
00:12:03,870
where you are just asking problem sets
and individual essays, because then,
200
00:12:03,889 -->
00:12:07,350
yeah, it's really easy for someone
to just go, yeah, I just did that.
201
00:12:07,879 -->
00:12:08,520
I passed it.
202
00:12:08,520 -->
00:12:10,790
It has nothing to do with
the next project anyway.
203
00:12:11,059 -->
00:12:11,659
Yeah.
204
00:12:11,669 -->
00:12:13,839
So then, you know, like that.
205
00:12:14,270 -->
00:12:20,180
That efficiency suddenly becomes very,
so that you can cheat and it doesn't,
206
00:12:20,230 -->
00:12:24,480
it doesn't, there's no concerns,
you know, you weren't really being
207
00:12:24,490 -->
00:12:26,059
asked to build on, on top of it.
208
00:12:26,560 -->
00:12:31,050
I can't imagine in your project
that your team members could survive
209
00:12:31,460 -->
00:12:35,960
if they just kind of, you know,
not actually know what's going on.
210
00:12:36,450 -->
00:12:40,580
Um, I find it to be in my team, you
know, like if I have an engineers who
211
00:12:41,130 -->
00:12:44,549
basically just kind of, they don't
really know what's going on, like.
212
00:12:45,194 -->
00:12:48,974
They can't even last one discussion
because we'll be talking about something,
213
00:12:48,974 -->
00:12:50,134
be like, well, what do you think of this?
214
00:12:50,134 -->
00:12:53,235
And they wouldn't be able to,
they wouldn't know because they
215
00:12:53,235 -->
00:12:56,824
didn't understand, you know, why
the decision was made before.
216
00:12:58,105 -->
00:13:02,344
So it would be like, like I said,
just asking you what happened with
217
00:13:02,574 -->
00:13:04,514
last week's episode on severance.
218
00:13:05,044 -->
00:13:07,795
And you're like, well, I didn't
watch it then, but you don't know.
219
00:13:07,795 -->
00:13:09,394
You just simply don't know.
220
00:13:09,425 -->
00:13:09,694
Right.
221
00:13:09,694 -->
00:13:11,084
You can't cheat your way out of that.
222
00:13:11,464 -->
00:13:12,214
Um, and so.
223
00:13:12,920 -->
00:13:16,550
And it's not even so much about, I think
like people want to do it at that point.
224
00:13:17,180 -->
00:13:19,130
Um, they actually just
want to do the project.
225
00:13:19,359 -->
00:13:23,030
And I also want, um, have one
observation that I have found too,
226
00:13:23,030 -->
00:13:25,509
which is because it's efficient.
227
00:13:26,800 -->
00:13:29,450
We have started to be able to.
228
00:13:29,819 -->
00:13:34,390
At least in our own engineering
and design projects that we've
229
00:13:34,430 -->
00:13:37,449
been able to do sometimes
230
00:13:39,560 -->
00:13:44,699
sort of additional iterations
that previously we wouldn't
231
00:13:44,699 -->
00:13:45,859
be able to afford to do.
232
00:13:45,879 -->
00:13:47,870
Cause we only had time to do so much.
233
00:13:48,909 -->
00:13:52,879
And you'd kind of have to kind of go,
well, this is what we have time for.
234
00:13:52,919 -->
00:13:54,149
This is what we're going with.
235
00:13:54,469 -->
00:13:59,665
Sometimes even knowing that it may not be
the best solution, but we don't have time
236
00:13:59,665 -->
00:14:02,025
to experiment with three other solutions.
237
00:14:02,085 -->
00:14:02,395
Yes.
238
00:14:02,475 -->
00:14:07,805
But now I feel like that we are starting
to find ourselves that if we make it so
239
00:14:07,805 -->
00:14:13,464
that we're just going to almost like let
it generate something it's rough and we're
240
00:14:13,464 -->
00:14:17,484
not going to actually use it, but we're
going to do three different approaches
241
00:14:17,704 -->
00:14:22,475
so that we can experiment a little bit
and then we can like make some decisions.
242
00:14:22,815 -->
00:14:23,125
Yeah.
243
00:14:23,125 -->
00:14:24,555
That prototyping phases.
244
00:14:24,555 -->
00:14:29,800
So yeah, it's like, it's tremendous, you
know, It's tremendous, like the ability
245
00:14:29,800 -->
00:14:33,960
to prototype and then prototyping is
maybe is one of those processes that is
246
00:14:33,960 -->
00:14:38,770
very well known in that design thinking
in the engineering, uh, design sort of
247
00:14:38,770 -->
00:14:45,759
process, but maybe it's less so in, um,
I don't know, um, writing an essay on
248
00:14:45,759 -->
00:14:51,085
history, um, But historians have their
own, like, unique ways of thinking
249
00:14:51,085 -->
00:14:52,405
that I think is really useful too.
250
00:14:52,635 -->
00:14:55,715
So like, I think these are the kind of
things that multiple, multidisciplinary
251
00:14:56,865 -->
00:15:01,074
sort of thinking is really going
to enhance the way that we, we
252
00:15:01,075 -->
00:15:07,544
function, especially with this sort of
explosion of, you know, AI and so on.
253
00:15:07,625 -->
00:15:11,235
So what do you think as someone who's,
so you talked about it as a student,
254
00:15:11,245 -->
00:15:15,635
what do you think, you know, as someone
who is about to graduate, do you feel
255
00:15:16,055 -->
00:15:18,905
Prepared to go into the workforce.
256
00:15:19,625 -->
00:15:23,444
Do you know, like this
hopefully doesn't scare you.
257
00:15:23,444 -->
00:15:29,595
I don't think you should be scared,
but, um, I did see that, um, I think
258
00:15:29,595 -->
00:15:36,384
Meta had said that they had the, in
2025, they will not hire any junior
259
00:15:36,735 -->
00:15:40,894
level developers, um, because they are.
260
00:15:41,275 -->
00:15:44,485
Finding that, you know, they're
going to either, you know, have AI
261
00:15:44,485 -->
00:15:46,955
agents or something to replace that.
262
00:15:47,795 -->
00:15:51,394
It definitely creates other problems,
which is like, if you can't be junior, how
263
00:15:51,394 -->
00:15:54,495
do you become the senior level developer?
264
00:15:54,695 -->
00:15:58,774
There's a, there's a bit of a, you know,
they're creating a bit of a chicken and
265
00:15:58,774 -->
00:16:02,795
the egg, you know, breaking the cycle
somewhere in their, um, Salesforce.
266
00:16:03,980 -->
00:16:08,870
Also said that they will in
2025, they're freezing...
267
00:16:09,700 -->
00:16:14,489
I think all hiring because they are
refocusing and trying to figure out
268
00:16:14,500 -->
00:16:17,780
what their engineering needs are.
269
00:16:18,099 -->
00:16:21,199
It doesn't mean that they will forever
not hire, but they're saying in 2025,
270
00:16:21,209 -->
00:16:24,819
we're not hiring at all, we're putting
a freeze on hiring our engineers, which
271
00:16:24,819 -->
00:16:27,969
is unheard of for that company before,
because every year they would just hire
272
00:16:27,969 -->
00:16:29,759
thousands of people at the same time.
273
00:16:29,760 -->
00:16:33,859
There is a lot of needs for engineers
everywhere else, but I'm just sort
274
00:16:33,859 -->
00:16:37,765
of like painting a picture for people
to know, like, as in, you know, like
275
00:16:37,765 -->
00:16:42,790
beginning of 2025, this is what the,
the climate looks like right now as
276
00:16:42,800 -->
00:16:48,030
someone who's about to graduate and in
the job market networking and so on.
277
00:16:48,505 -->
00:16:50,925
What, uh, how do you feel about this?
278
00:16:51,345 -->
00:16:52,615
Thank you for telling me about it.
279
00:16:52,615 -->
00:16:55,065
Cause I, I didn't know
about that until now.
280
00:16:55,115 -->
00:16:59,654
So that is a little concerning,
especially knowing that the job market
281
00:16:59,654 -->
00:17:03,805
is also really competitive in terms of
the computer science software space.
282
00:17:04,204 -->
00:17:08,255
Um, I've been hearing of people
having a hard time getting software
283
00:17:08,255 -->
00:17:10,305
positions, internships, and jobs.
284
00:17:10,615 -->
00:17:11,125
And.
285
00:17:11,659 -->
00:17:15,040
I think that that's really
discouraging, especially if they're
286
00:17:15,040 -->
00:17:17,700
using AI to replace those careers.
287
00:17:17,700 -->
00:17:22,299
Cause when it's, like you said, taking
away from new graduates and it's also
288
00:17:22,300 -->
00:17:26,050
taking away that, that human aspect
that I was talking about earlier,
289
00:17:26,300 -->
00:17:31,529
although it is efficient and maybe may
save the company some money, you're,
290
00:17:31,579 -->
00:17:36,179
you're taking away those opportunities
of learning and building your sense
291
00:17:36,179 -->
00:17:40,080
of, um, community within that company.
292
00:17:40,380 -->
00:17:43,020
So that's, that is interesting.
293
00:17:44,540 -->
00:17:50,449
But I, I really, by the way, I,
I didn't mean to, um, scare you
294
00:17:50,460 -->
00:17:52,439
during this conversation here, Clea.
295
00:17:52,979 -->
00:18:01,185
Um, but I also think that there is now
a groundswell of people like yourself,
296
00:18:01,195 -->
00:18:06,075
who has the skills, who has the thinking
process, who understand projects, who
297
00:18:06,075 -->
00:18:09,734
understand how to work, you know, to ask,
how to understand, how to ask questions.
298
00:18:09,955 -->
00:18:14,325
That's actually one of the skills that
is necessary for people to, for example,
299
00:18:14,485 -->
00:18:19,275
go with a much more entrepreneurial,
you know, uh, path where there are
300
00:18:19,525 -->
00:18:25,015
software engineers or engineers who
decide that, Hey, you know what?
301
00:18:25,365 -->
00:18:26,575
I'm making something up here.
302
00:18:27,024 -->
00:18:33,665
There wasn't a, a way for, for
the Filipino community to, beyond
303
00:18:33,685 -->
00:18:38,394
Bucknell, but like in maybe in your
area, wherever you end up being, you
304
00:18:38,394 -->
00:18:42,765
know, and, um, and that now you can.
305
00:18:43,265 -->
00:18:48,295
Because of the speed of development,
because of the new tools, because of,
306
00:18:48,365 -->
00:18:57,115
you know, the access to some of this,
these AI tools, um, that I, I heard an, a
307
00:18:57,115 -->
00:19:04,070
very interesting interview that said, we
wonder at what point we're going to see
308
00:19:04,100 -->
00:19:12,240
the first solo entrepreneur billionaire,
which is a really interesting, um, sort
309
00:19:12,240 -->
00:19:16,820
of, and I mean, billionaire is more like
a symbol that I don't think, you know,
310
00:19:17,049 -->
00:19:22,899
I don't even think any of like mere
models like me, um, can even understand
311
00:19:22,990 -->
00:19:24,950
how much money that actually is.
312
00:19:25,180 -->
00:19:30,655
But, but my point, I think the point
of it is more like you can potentially
313
00:19:30,665 -->
00:19:38,960
be extremely successful at this job and
that you might even be, um, able to do
314
00:19:38,960 -->
00:19:44,340
it with far fewer resources than, than
what used to be, you know, you don't have
315
00:19:44,340 -->
00:19:50,439
to become the Google, you know, that has
employees, many hundreds of thousands
316
00:19:50,439 -->
00:19:55,050
of employees in order to do this really
difficult job, it almost feels like
317
00:19:55,050 -->
00:20:00,090
there's a lot more, um, opportunities
for people to be able to say, you know
318
00:20:00,090 -->
00:20:03,860
what, if I think that bringing water to...
319
00:20:04,245 -->
00:20:08,205
you know, places in need is the thing
that needs to exist in the world.
320
00:20:08,225 -->
00:20:10,985
And there is not a business
that is doing that right now.
321
00:20:11,324 -->
00:20:17,374
I can do it because using the
efficiency that's created by AI, um,
322
00:20:17,415 -->
00:20:21,414
what used to have taken, you know,
an insurmountable amount of resource.
323
00:20:21,715 -->
00:20:27,204
Just to do the communication and the
design and the PR and all that I might
324
00:20:27,455 -->
00:20:33,034
in 2026 create agents that can take
care of a lot of that for me so that I
325
00:20:33,034 -->
00:20:34,715
can do things that are more meaningful.
326
00:20:34,875 -->
00:20:37,205
I think that's a really
different kind of future.
327
00:20:37,205 -->
00:20:44,074
I think it's scary on one hand, but it's
also like exhilarating on the other hand.
328
00:20:44,820 -->
00:20:46,120
Yes, for sure.
329
00:20:46,300 -->
00:20:51,070
That's so interesting because I,
I've spoken to people who, when
330
00:20:51,070 -->
00:20:55,230
networking, they didn't like major
in computer science or anything,
331
00:20:55,490 -->
00:20:57,480
but they learned it on their own.
332
00:20:57,490 -->
00:21:01,540
And I guess when learning on
your own, Chat, GPT, or AI
333
00:21:01,550 -->
00:21:06,890
helpers are such a important and
helpful tool to learn as well.
334
00:21:06,890 -->
00:21:11,790
So having that aspect to help you do
things on your own rather than always
335
00:21:11,790 -->
00:21:16,340
relying on having to be taught or
having to buy all of these resources
336
00:21:16,340 -->
00:21:19,670
in order to get things done is so
empowering because you can really
337
00:21:19,670 -->
00:21:23,269
do anything on your own these days
because of all of the resources,
338
00:21:23,299 -->
00:21:25,909
open source platforms available.
339
00:21:26,825 -->
00:21:27,975
But it's also not necessary.
340
00:21:27,975 -->
00:21:29,765
It doesn't have to be really solo.
341
00:21:30,075 -->
00:21:36,845
But imagine if you can run a tremendously
impactful business or organization,
342
00:21:37,055 -->
00:21:42,005
right, that do meaningful things,
but it's just 10 of you, um, right.
343
00:21:42,045 -->
00:21:43,864
It could also be this.
344
00:21:44,190 -->
00:21:47,060
You know, but, but it would
have in the past would have
345
00:21:47,060 -->
00:21:49,980
required a hundred people, right.
346
00:21:50,120 -->
00:21:53,719
And it, like that to me is a really
interesting part of the world that I
347
00:21:53,730 -->
00:21:56,790
don't think a lot of people are exploring
because, you know, there's a lot
348
00:21:56,790 -->
00:22:00,149
about replacing current jobs and, and.
349
00:22:00,585 -->
00:22:05,345
And it might, I think that it will
create, replace some jobs, maybe even
350
00:22:05,345 -->
00:22:10,365
many jobs, um, especially what would be
considered entry level jobs, or maybe
351
00:22:10,365 -->
00:22:13,245
even to a certain degree, mid level jobs.
352
00:22:13,625 -->
00:22:15,455
Um, but I think that.
353
00:22:15,750 -->
00:22:19,250
You know, there, it, it feels like
to me, kind of like what I was
354
00:22:19,250 -->
00:22:23,740
saying before, okay, you save time
over here, but you actually end
355
00:22:23,740 -->
00:22:25,120
up spending the time elsewhere.
356
00:22:25,329 -->
00:22:27,049
So now you're able to push it further.
357
00:22:27,270 -->
00:22:27,980
Yes.
358
00:22:28,010 -->
00:22:32,140
And so I feel like that, you know,
taking something away from one
359
00:22:32,140 -->
00:22:38,350
side will, will inevitably get
balanced out on the other side too.
360
00:22:38,820 -->
00:22:43,520
Um, but it, it is difficult, you
know, especially for folks who
361
00:22:44,260 -->
00:22:45,800
You know, this was forced on them.
362
00:22:45,800 -->
00:22:48,139
This was a natural progression.
363
00:22:48,449 -->
00:22:54,310
You know, if I've had this job for
the last 25 years, um, suddenly I
364
00:22:54,310 -->
00:22:59,860
being forced to re-skill, up-skill,
change skills, change jobs too.
365
00:23:00,625 -->
00:23:04,645
To, to deal with this, you
know, new world, it, it feels
366
00:23:04,645 -->
00:23:06,565
difficult and feels uncomfortable.
367
00:23:07,045 -->
00:23:11,645
Um, but I, I kind of, you know, I was
really interested in hearing sort of from
368
00:23:11,655 -->
00:23:13,575
someone who's about to graduate, right?
369
00:23:14,074 -->
00:23:19,495
I also think about, you know,
for people who are, you know,
370
00:23:19,564 -->
00:23:22,634
freshmen now at Bucknell, right?
371
00:23:23,034 -->
00:23:24,585
Like when they graduate.
372
00:23:24,985 -->
00:23:25,804
Yes.
373
00:23:25,855 -->
00:23:27,534
What does the world look like then?
374
00:23:27,544 -->
00:23:29,845
Because you are already
seeing a little bit of this.
375
00:23:30,225 -->
00:23:31,784
In 2025, right?
376
00:23:31,790 -->
00:23:34,090
Mm-hmm . I like 2028.
377
00:23:34,159 -->
00:23:36,450
Like, that's gonna be
really different, right?
378
00:23:36,450 -->
00:23:41,375
Mm-hmm . And I think the younger
generations now have, they have so
379
00:23:41,375 -->
00:23:45,245
much ambition and now they have a
lot of resources and more tools.
380
00:23:45,245 -->
00:23:50,615
So I see them having more and more
progress and more and more, um,
381
00:23:50,675 -->
00:23:53,405
really cool projects coming out that
they're really passionate about.
382
00:23:53,405 -->
00:23:55,475
And I know they're gonna
achieve so much more.
383
00:23:55,534 -->
00:23:55,865
So.
384
00:23:56,685 -->
00:23:58,775
Well, you are part of the
younger generation, Clea.
385
00:23:59,034 -->
00:24:02,485
Just wanted to say you, you
have those tools as well, and
386
00:24:02,495 -->
00:24:04,235
you, you'll get to use them too.
387
00:24:04,935 -->
00:24:09,954
Um, I, I hope that, by the way,
that it wasn't, uh, you didn't
388
00:24:09,955 -->
00:24:12,105
get scared from that, but, um.
389
00:24:12,165 -->
00:24:14,865
I still have hope, you
know, cause, because I've.
390
00:24:15,280 -->
00:24:18,490
I feel like what you were saying, it's
not enough to be just an engineer.
391
00:24:18,490 -->
00:24:22,510
You need to have all of those skills and
that interdisciplinary, which I think
392
00:24:22,560 -->
00:24:27,649
AI could never replace all of those like
human aspects that makes a person a person
393
00:24:27,649 -->
00:24:32,109
because what, how you provide value in
your work or like you said, your past
394
00:24:32,110 -->
00:24:37,215
experience and your identity, how all
of those aspects of your identity and
395
00:24:37,215 -->
00:24:41,215
what you've been through affect how you
do your current work, which A.I. Could
396
00:24:41,215 -->
00:24:43,984
never have that like history built in.
397
00:24:44,215 -->
00:24:46,255
Yeah, and and that's right.
398
00:24:46,465 -->
00:24:48,445
Actually, A.I. cannot do that for us.
399
00:24:48,825 -->
00:24:52,965
Um, you have to be the one who
you can have a lot of experience.
400
00:24:52,975 -->
00:24:57,484
Someone can read aloud the
experiences to you, but you still
401
00:24:57,484 -->
00:24:58,764
have to go through the heart.
402
00:24:58,774 -->
00:25:01,014
The hard work is how do you process that?
403
00:25:01,014 -->
00:25:01,564
And how do you.
404
00:25:01,795 -->
00:25:03,635
Make sense of all those experiences.
405
00:25:04,004 -->
00:25:07,185
I want to say that all that's
exactly what your reflections did.
406
00:25:07,254 -->
00:25:11,874
You know, like doing the project itself
is one thing, but the reflection is
407
00:25:11,905 -->
00:25:14,025
the part where you had the experience.
408
00:25:14,044 -->
00:25:18,404
Now you get to process it and
you were able to make pretty big
409
00:25:18,740 -->
00:25:21,980
jumps every time, you know, you
build one from one to the other.
410
00:25:21,990 -->
00:25:24,699
And those are the things
that stays forever, right?
411
00:25:24,730 -->
00:25:30,420
Like the C sharp code that you
wrote in for whatever that's going
412
00:25:30,420 -->
00:25:32,219
to get obsolete, unfortunately.
413
00:25:32,619 -->
00:25:32,949
Right.
414
00:25:33,010 -->
00:25:37,080
But, but the ability to sort
of take the thinking and like
415
00:25:37,120 -->
00:25:38,879
combine those experiences.
416
00:25:39,225 -->
00:25:43,225
And then figuring out what kind of
thinker you are, you know, as you would
417
00:25:43,225 -->
00:25:47,734
solve problems, means that by the time
you write the next piece of code that
418
00:25:47,735 -->
00:25:53,475
is not even in C sharp, will, you will
still be able to apply those, right.
419
00:25:53,504 -->
00:25:58,155
And, but it's really about even like
taking coding to design and all of
420
00:25:58,155 -->
00:25:59,784
that is even make it even stronger.
421
00:25:59,794 -->
00:26:00,595
I really believe that.
422
00:26:00,605 -->
00:26:02,985
I think that's, that's,
that's what it's going to be.
423
00:26:02,985 -->
00:26:07,024
And you were talking about augmented
reality and virtual reality before.
424
00:26:07,254 -->
00:26:09,185
I mean, that's another really like.
425
00:26:09,495 -->
00:26:14,675
To me, surprisingly unspoken area
too, you know, I was thinking about,
426
00:26:15,034 -->
00:26:21,574
you know, like if you are training
to become a nurse in 2025 right
427
00:26:21,574 -->
00:26:24,994
now, and you're going to graduate in
2028, we talked about that, right?
428
00:26:26,854 -->
00:26:35,065
It may very well be that you are no
longer, or it may very well be that
429
00:26:35,075 -->
00:26:42,624
the... you know, currently, I think
a lot of nursing majors have to learn
430
00:26:42,624 -->
00:26:47,914
a humongous amount of content, like
the material is staggering, right?
431
00:26:48,304 -->
00:26:52,745
Like every procedure that they're
supposed to know, every condition,
432
00:26:52,745 -->
00:26:55,425
there's all the protocols, right?
433
00:26:56,154 -->
00:27:00,665
I kind of kept imagining with
engineers like you, who's
434
00:27:00,675 -->
00:27:05,115
going to create a safe, secure.
435
00:27:05,899 -->
00:27:13,370
Accurate, non hallucinogenic
version of some kind of AR glasses
436
00:27:14,270 -->
00:27:17,800
that a nurse would be able to wear
comfortably, you know, all day.
437
00:27:18,680 -->
00:27:24,740
And being able to say, like, generally
speaking, if I, you know, have a
438
00:27:24,740 -->
00:27:28,570
patient who is having a certain
kind of symptoms or is having
439
00:27:28,570 -->
00:27:32,140
certain kind of pain or knowing
that they are having a heart attack.
440
00:27:33,090 -->
00:27:34,829
That your
441
00:27:37,390 -->
00:27:44,789
AR will helpfully just go, this is
without going through like public servers
442
00:27:44,789 -->
00:27:47,789
and stuff, you know, like within the
hospital, like it's always safe and it's
443
00:27:47,800 -->
00:27:49,729
not sharing that material with anyone.
444
00:27:50,310 -->
00:27:55,300
Being able to just go here,
here are the next seven steps.
445
00:27:56,529 -->
00:27:59,279
Here are some other additional
things that you need to know.
446
00:27:59,289 -->
00:28:01,370
This is the timing in
which you need to do them.
447
00:28:01,660 -->
00:28:05,970
Etc, etc. Not that the nurse
should just purely count on that.
448
00:28:06,239 -->
00:28:09,170
Having that assistant would
be so incredibly useful.
449
00:28:09,659 -->
00:28:09,909
Yes.
450
00:28:09,909 -->
00:28:12,379
And being able to sort of
say, like, did I do them?
451
00:28:12,399 -->
00:28:16,929
Or did I, like, or you, maybe, maybe
a heart attack is common enough
452
00:28:16,929 -->
00:28:18,429
that you just know that, right?
453
00:28:18,859 -->
00:28:22,610
But maybe you come across something
that you've never done, or you
454
00:28:22,610 -->
00:28:24,019
haven't done in three years.
455
00:28:24,100 -->
00:28:25,239
Mm. Right?
456
00:28:25,890 -->
00:28:32,060
Like, typically, by the way, like
many doctors and nurses in some
457
00:28:32,060 -->
00:28:34,340
of those situations, they actually
have to look things up, right?
458
00:28:34,340 -->
00:28:39,170
They have to, and this is also where
sometimes you, or sometimes some things
459
00:28:39,170 -->
00:28:43,109
you missed and then you, you know,
this is where like practice lawsuits
460
00:28:43,110 -->
00:28:44,740
come in and so on and so forth.
461
00:28:45,069 -->
00:28:49,780
But I could imagine that, you
know, a well developed tool like
462
00:28:49,780 -->
00:28:56,940
that could be, you know, life
changing for, for all of us, right?
463
00:28:56,940 -->
00:28:57,920
In medical care.
464
00:28:58,245 -->
00:28:58,485
Yeah.
465
00:28:58,534 -->
00:29:03,074
And it would allow for, yeah, it would
allow for someone to not count on what
466
00:29:03,074 -->
00:29:07,754
if the nurse got tired because they did
already, it's their 12th hour working that
467
00:29:07,754 -->
00:29:14,684
day and it's been a crazy day, you know,
of all kinds of, you know, high adrenaline
468
00:29:14,715 -->
00:29:16,604
events that happen over and over again.
469
00:29:16,604 -->
00:29:16,784
Right.
470
00:29:16,925 -->
00:29:17,644
It happens.
471
00:29:17,645 -->
00:29:17,945
Right.
472
00:29:18,865 -->
00:29:22,735
And, and what if you can create that
tool and, and what, what does that
473
00:29:22,735 -->
00:29:24,264
change for that nursing students?
474
00:29:25,715 -->
00:29:30,555
You know, like, what if they
end up spending a little less
475
00:29:30,575 -->
00:29:35,625
energy on acquiring all of the
content, which is an investment.
476
00:29:36,660 -->
00:29:41,530
For me, when I see it, I feel like it's
an insurmountable amount of content
477
00:29:42,440 -->
00:29:46,740
that in fact, it just keeps growing
because, you know, people are researching
478
00:29:46,740 -->
00:29:48,469
more, discovering more how to even.
479
00:29:49,055 -->
00:29:52,025
Keep that in the, in our brain, you know?
480
00:29:52,995 -->
00:29:56,325
Yes, it's impressive the work
they do and that there's so
481
00:29:56,325 -->
00:29:58,605
much risk in Incorporating.
482
00:29:59,045 -->
00:30:03,924
They put their lives at stake every single
minute because you never know like you
483
00:30:03,924 -->
00:30:08,694
can Contract whatever it is that's causing
someone to be sick, for example, right?
484
00:30:08,694 -->
00:30:15,310
And so you're doing all of that Like,
I almost imagine, like, wow, you would
485
00:30:15,320 -->
00:30:19,520
be the person, you'll be the kind of
people who would have the skills to
486
00:30:19,520 -->
00:30:25,520
create the AR technology that can help
someone like that, and in turn, it will
487
00:30:25,529 -->
00:30:32,259
help save countless lives, and it will
also change their perspectives a lot too.
488
00:30:32,469 -->
00:30:34,130
So, I remember.
489
00:30:34,460 -->
00:30:38,860
You know, as a kid, I don't know whether
you felt that way too, but as a kid,
490
00:30:39,380 -->
00:30:45,809
I mean, if I'm an Asian family, like
there is some default professions that
491
00:30:45,810 -->
00:30:48,190
are cool to do, doctor being one, right?
492
00:30:48,230 -->
00:30:49,480
Yes, for sure.
493
00:30:49,589 -->
00:30:51,820
And, um, I remember.
494
00:30:52,675 -->
00:30:55,995
Learning the little, littlest
bit about being a doctor.
495
00:30:55,995 -->
00:30:58,355
And it was like, well,
it's a lot of studying.
496
00:30:58,385 -->
00:31:04,484
It was like a huge amount of memorizing,
like lots and lots and lots of facts and
497
00:31:04,494 -->
00:31:07,585
big words and, and, and, and systems.
498
00:31:07,975 -->
00:31:09,404
And I remember thinking.
499
00:31:10,380 -->
00:31:11,430
That's just not for me.
500
00:31:13,930 -->
00:31:17,290
Now I speak with a lot of doctors,
people who had gone through medical
501
00:31:17,290 -->
00:31:21,760
training that says, well, yeah, that
is actually like legitimately really,
502
00:31:21,760 -->
00:31:25,509
really hard, but that's not all I do.
503
00:31:25,510 -->
00:31:27,240
In fact, that's not what I do.
504
00:31:28,890 -->
00:31:33,150
So they think about the world very
differently already, but I have this
505
00:31:33,150 -->
00:31:37,810
like, you know, impression that this
is an unattainable thing because.
506
00:31:38,690 -->
00:31:43,300
It's so, it's so much about memorizing
a huge amount of content and that
507
00:31:43,330 -->
00:31:45,110
I'm just like, that's not for me.
508
00:31:45,130 -->
00:31:49,739
Like I may be able to do it, but like, you
know, like I can't, I don't find that to
509
00:31:49,740 -->
00:31:52,800
be a good use of my, my, my, my, my time.
510
00:31:53,189 -->
00:31:56,989
But if that got taken out of the
equation, maybe not completely,
511
00:31:56,990 -->
00:32:02,109
but like the pressure of like being
tested on those things as being your,
512
00:32:02,169 -->
00:32:04,439
the majority of what you do, right.
513
00:32:05,200 -->
00:32:10,550
It may mean that providing care for
someone, becoming the, the, the,
514
00:32:10,640 -->
00:32:14,679
the, uh, providing, making someone
else's healthy, um, becomes, you
515
00:32:14,680 -->
00:32:17,720
know, part of the equation, like
the bigger part of the equation.
516
00:32:18,320 -->
00:32:20,329
It may change a lot of people's minds.
517
00:32:20,419 -->
00:32:21,139
Yes.
518
00:32:21,160 -->
00:32:21,450
Yeah.
519
00:32:21,450 -->
00:32:26,490
I have a similar story of how people
are saying, I was asking, um, A
520
00:32:26,490 -->
00:32:30,760
friend who graduated and I was asking
her, Oh, we have to learn so much
521
00:32:30,790 -->
00:32:33,510
technical things in our ECEG classes.
522
00:32:33,520 -->
00:32:36,990
Like how much of it do you actually
use similar to how the doctors have
523
00:32:36,990 -->
00:32:40,700
to learn all of these procedures and
memorize a lot of things, but they don't
524
00:32:40,820 -->
00:32:42,909
maybe directly use it in their work.
525
00:32:42,909 -->
00:32:44,919
So I was asking her, how
much do you actually.
526
00:32:45,020 -->
00:32:46,830
Use this because she's
an electrical engineer.
527
00:32:47,140 -->
00:32:50,970
And she was saying not too much,
all of the things that we learned,
528
00:32:50,970 -->
00:32:54,639
because I think the processes at
school are just teaching you how to
529
00:32:54,639 -->
00:32:58,219
learn, teaching you the fundamentals
and what you really do in a real time
530
00:32:58,219 -->
00:33:03,480
job and work is like you learn, like
the processes that your company uses
531
00:33:03,480 -->
00:33:04,980
and you need to learn how to learn.
532
00:33:05,000 -->
00:33:06,830
And that's what school prepares you for.
533
00:33:07,120 -->
00:33:11,720
And being able to find those things that
you need to learn and learn by yourself.
534
00:33:11,750 -->
00:33:13,460
I think that's what AI is really great.
535
00:33:13,750 -->
00:33:18,550
For being able to learn fast on the
job when you need to know these things,
536
00:33:18,580 -->
00:33:21,540
maybe not off the top of your head,
but you have like that background.
537
00:33:22,220 -->
00:33:23,500
That's beautifully said.
538
00:33:24,720 -->
00:33:27,770
Clea, thank you so much for
spending all this time with me.
539
00:33:27,850 -->
00:33:30,900
I really, really enjoyed our conversation.
540
00:33:30,919 -->
00:33:32,530
You are brilliant.
541
00:33:32,800 -->
00:33:38,290
I, I, um, I am so impressed with,
you know, this, you know, what
542
00:33:38,290 -->
00:33:42,209
you have to say and how you think
about the world is fascinating.
543
00:33:42,210 -->
00:33:49,485
Um, I think that, um, those of us,
I'd be listening to this again, but,
544
00:33:49,505 -->
00:33:53,965
and those of us, I think are also
listening right now who are, you know,
545
00:33:53,965 -->
00:33:59,235
from my generation or the, you know,
the, even the older generations should
546
00:33:59,235 -->
00:34:04,345
look at, you know, should listen
closely to what you are telling us.
547
00:34:05,035 -->
00:34:09,005
And what you, how you think about
a world, what makes sense and, and,
548
00:34:09,005 -->
00:34:13,235
and, and how you are, you know,
what your real experience is like.
549
00:34:13,725 -->
00:34:18,445
So that, you know, for those of us who
are in any positions of like making those
550
00:34:18,445 -->
00:34:21,695
kinds of decisions, uh, thinking about
like the future of education, maybe.
551
00:34:22,010 -->
00:34:25,750
So I know that there are people who
are Deans and, you know, Department
552
00:34:25,750 -->
00:34:29,610
Chairs who have the ability to,
to influence where this goes.
553
00:34:29,830 -->
00:34:31,470
I think we have a lot of work to do.
554
00:34:31,500 -->
00:34:36,319
I think we have a lot to do to make
sure that our, you know, like, not
555
00:34:36,320 -->
00:34:40,689
only for you graduating in 2025, but
what about those who are graduating in
556
00:34:40,720 -->
00:34:47,980
26, 27, 28, like we gotta, we gotta do
these things quickly to, to make sure
557
00:34:47,980 -->
00:34:54,240
that you are not going to be, you know,
getting out to the world and, and, and
558
00:34:54,240 -->
00:34:59,929
feel like that you are sort of, you
know, you're not able to contribute,
559
00:35:00,230 -->
00:35:04,940
um, because the real world looks too
different from what was presented to
560
00:35:04,940 -->
00:35:07,009
you in, in, in an education environment.
561
00:35:07,010 -->
00:35:10,579
Um, and I'm so glad that
you're at Bucknell who.
562
00:35:10,975 -->
00:35:13,015
Which, like you said, does not do that.
563
00:35:13,255 -->
00:35:16,305
Um, it allows you to ask questions,
like to work on real world project.
564
00:35:16,535 -->
00:35:20,385
So you hear from here, Bucknell
university, please go check it out.
565
00:35:20,734 -->
00:35:22,595
Um, I think many people already know this.
566
00:35:22,654 -->
00:35:26,304
I'm in school is very well known,
but I, for people who, who are really
567
00:35:26,305 -->
00:35:31,765
not, um, you know, who are thinking
about like, you know, engineering,
568
00:35:31,765 -->
00:35:34,135
for example, like Clea, uh, was.
569
00:35:34,405 -->
00:35:39,615
Should think about what it means to go
to a program that has equal emphasis on
570
00:35:39,625 -->
00:35:45,204
liberal arts, um, on sort of these ability
for you to ask, ask questions yourselves
571
00:35:45,485 -->
00:35:50,304
and to lead teams, um, and do all these
other things that, uh, is, is going to
572
00:35:50,314 -->
00:35:56,105
go beyond just, you know, 25 really,
really hard problem sets, um, right.
573
00:35:56,375 -->
00:35:58,235
Um, and, um.
574
00:35:58,555 -->
00:36:02,645
And for those, uh, last reminder for
those who are looking for the next
575
00:36:02,645 -->
00:36:07,625
generations of the best talents, I think
clear here is certainly one of them.
576
00:36:07,645 -->
00:36:12,085
If you are creating those glasses
for AR, you know, for an AR company,
577
00:36:12,385 -->
00:36:16,654
um, you know, contact her quickly
or she would be off the market.
578
00:36:17,174 -->
00:36:17,565
All right.
579
00:36:17,595 -->
00:36:18,815
Thank you all so much.
580
00:36:18,845 -->
00:36:22,015
And, uh, Clea, I really
appreciate this conversation.
581
00:36:22,045 -->
00:36:25,015
I hope that we can get to,
um, keep in touch and, uh, let
582
00:36:25,015 -->
00:36:26,385
me, let me know how things go.
583
00:36:26,385 -->
00:36:26,785
Okay.
584
00:36:26,855 -->
00:36:27,235
Yes.
585
00:36:27,245 -->
00:36:29,435
Thank you again so much
for this opportunity.
586
00:36:29,435 -->
00:36:33,294
I really enjoyed reflecting on my,
my ePortfolios and all the projects
587
00:36:33,295 -->
00:36:36,514
I've done and how much I've learned
since then and how much Digication
588
00:36:36,514 -->
00:36:40,765
has helped me to, to reflect on these
experiences and to showcase them as well.
589
00:36:41,040 -->
00:36:41,710
So thank you.
590
00:36:42,300 -->
00:36:45,060
Well, I, I, I appreciate the kind words.
591
00:36:45,460 -->
00:36:48,360
Take care and, uh, good
luck with everything.
592
00:36:48,370 -->
00:36:53,759
And congratulations, uh, uh, in advance
on your, your completion of your degrees.
593
00:36:54,109 -->
00:36:55,270
Thank you so much, Jeff.
594
00:36:55,750 -->
00:36:56,420
Okay, take care.
595
00:36:56,750 -->
00:36:56,840
Bye.
596
00:36:56,840 -->
00:36:57,299
Thank you.
597
00:36:57,439 -->
00:36:58,200
Bye bye.
598
00:36:58,400 -->
00:37:00,080
This concludes our conversation.
599
00:37:00,470 -->
00:37:04,640
To hear our next episode, be sure
to subscribe to Digication Scholars
600
00:37:04,640 -->
00:37:08,780
conversations on YouTube, iTunes,
Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
601
00:37:10,145 -->
00:37:14,315
The Digication Scholars Conversation
Series is brought to you by Digication,
602
00:37:15,095 -->
00:37:18,515
a technology platform powering
the most innovative e-portfolio
603
00:37:18,515 -->
00:37:20,675
programs in K12 and higher education.
604
00:37:21,365 -->
00:37:23,795
Our website can be found
at Digication dot com.
605
00:37:24,425 -->
00:37:27,425
If you enjoyed today's
conversation, please like,
606
00:37:27,575 -->
00:37:29,285
subscribe, and share with a friend.
607
00:37:29,795 -->
00:37:30,815
Thanks for tuning in.
