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Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.
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I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
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In this episode, you will hear part one
of my conversation with Clea Ramos, a
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student studying Computer Engineering
and Studio Arts at Bucknell University.
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More links and information about today's
conversation can be found on Digication's
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Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
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Full episodes of Digication Scholars
Conversations can be found on
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YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
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Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.
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I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
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My guest today is Clea Ramos, a student
studying computer engineering and
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studio art at Bucknell University.
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Hello, Clea.
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Hello.
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It's nice to meet you.
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Thank you for having me.
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I am so happy that you're here.
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Um, I have been, uh, working with and
collaborating with your, one of your
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professors, uh, Rebecca Thomas, who is
actually also a, um, prior Digication
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Scholars Conversations guests.
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Um, and we often talk about you know,
the, the, the kind of, um, pedagogical,
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uh, approach that she has, you know,
for her students and then some, and,
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and which we both admire, but then,
you know, sometimes you talk about
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who are some of your students that are
doing really great work and she had, I
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feel very grateful that she had shared
three portfolios that you have created.
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Um, I, I saw them.
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I. You know, I, I read them and, uh,
I was so inspired and I said, Hey,
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um, Rebecca, would you mind if, can we
have her on the Digication Scholars?
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And that's how this came to be.
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And thank you for, you know,
making yourself available.
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So you are a senior.
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Yes.
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Um, so are you majoring both in
computer engineering and studio arts?
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I am majoring in computer engineering
and because I've always taken art in
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elementary school and high school, I
wanted to pursue arts, especially at a
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Liberal Arts Institution at Bucknell.
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I was able to take, uh, five art
classes, so I'm minoring in studio art,
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mostly focusing on the digital arts.
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That's awesome.
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So tell me a little bit about yourself.
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I. I, I want to say that you,
um, you, you have a connection
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with, you, are you a Filipino?
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Maybe you have families
from the Philippines.
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Is that correct?
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Yeah.
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So my parents are immigrants, um,
and I'm a first generation student.
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So I grew up in Stanford,
Connecticut and went to school there.
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And um, I'm now at Bucknell University.
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So I, uh, really pride myself on being
Filipino and even at Bucknell, I'm a part
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of the Filipino student association here.
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And so you're, you're parents are
immigrants, you're a first gen, you
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know, U. S., you know, you grew up,
you, you said you were born here?
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Yes, I was born here.
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And, um, what was that
experience like for you?
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Yeah, so, uh, elementary school, I have an
older brother, we went to a small private
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school called Waterside School and it
was a school that prioritized minorities.
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So I grew up in a really tight knit
community where everyone knew each
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other and that school, um, helped
minority and people of culture go
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into a really good private schools
for middle school and high school.
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So then I went on to Greenwich
Academy and my brother went on
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to its brother school, Brunswick.
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So we both grew up going
to that environment.
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And there I was able to
learn more about, um.
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Engineering and art and where I found
my passions there and then since then,
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from my high school to Bucknell, um,
because those, my high school and
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Bucknell are predominantly white, I
really wanted to stay in touch with
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the cultural side because I grew up
with that in my elementary school.
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So me and a few friends at Bucknell
came together and we saw Asian
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galas happening, all of these events
happening with all their culturals
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and we wanted to participate.
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So we created, um, the Philippine student
association and we have, uh, bi-weekly
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meetings where we help, um, advocate for
Filipino culture and have fun events.
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And we're participating
in an Asian gala soon.
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That is awesome.
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I am a huge, huge fan of Filipino foods.
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Yes.
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What is your favorite?
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Chicken adobo.
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Yes, I do love chicken adobo.
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My favorite is sinigang.
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It's a sour soup.
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Yes, I know that.
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Yeah, I love it.
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Yeah.
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That's awesome.
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I myself from, um, grew up in
Hong Kong and then I moved here.
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So like this, I am the first gen,
you know, immigrants in my family,
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first gen college attendee as well.
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So I really love that you are taking
that culture, um, that you are so
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proud of and making something of it.
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I think that's, that's
really, that's really amazing.
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I would say that one of the things
that I was so drawn by your work
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and your portfolio is, is that
you do a lot of reflections.
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The portfolios I saw.
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Um, I know that you, you have those
portfolios and then you have another
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portfolio that linked to a notion site.
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Um, that is your art portfolio as well.
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Um, it's amazing to see all of these
different, you know, linkages, you know,
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everywhere, um, one of the things that
I was, you know, after seeing all three
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of your portfolios, I really flicked
through every page, by the way, um, I
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read, I read all of it and, um, what's
really the consistent sense of, you know,
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what you do to reflect on your learning.
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I remember so vividly that.
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In one of your projects, it
was about provide a way to, to
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monitor the health of water.
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Um, right.
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And in some of your finding at
the end, you go, well, you know,
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like we have some limitations in.
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The hardware that we have available
to us and, and the technology and
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so on, but you were able to, you,
you learned quite a bit from it.
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Um, but those things that you learn that
I thought were the most interesting were
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things like iterative design process.
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Um, how you communicate,
um, how are you as a leader?
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How do you do time management?
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How do you think about collaboration?
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And yes, you also have the
experience of dealing, you know,
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learning the technical skills of.
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Working with the limitations of
the, the, the technology that you
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had available to you at the time.
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But those are the kinds of things like
the microcontroller system, you know?
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Yeah.
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But those are the kinds of things that,
um, in many ways, that's the thing that is
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going to continue to change very quickly.
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In fact, I bet you that if you were doing
the project this, this spring again.
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It's already different, right?
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Because there will be a
better microcontroller.
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There will be a better circuit board.
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There will be a better set of
technologies available to you, right?
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And maybe the condition
would have changed.
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You would work with
different people, right?
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But it's all of those skills that is
about, um, you know, your own learning
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process that feels like is, Is one that is
constantly built one after on top of the
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other, like that to me is what I got out
of, like, after reading these portfolios.
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What do you think about that?
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Yes.
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So I remember coming in my freshman year,
spring semester, when I had my first
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ECEG - Electrical and Computer Engineering
course with Professor Rebecca Thomas.
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And throughout that whole semester, we
were tasked to create a, uh, ePortfolios.
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I think that was probably
the first year it launched at
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Bucknell, so we were all new to it.
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So we were wondering, oh,
what do we put on here?
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We're not too familiar how it
works, but we worked on it since
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the beginning of the semester and
built on it, um, every few weeks.
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And it corresponded to writing down
what we wanted to do as a career
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and finding someone to interview
on a career we're interested in.
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And through that process, like,
Um, looking at, uh, research
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videos, research articles and
reflecting on what we want to do.
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And I think that was the first
time I've reflected like that
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in an engineering context.
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So from there, that was the
first ePortfolio I've done.
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And at the end I had a record of, um, how
I thought about my careers and my interest
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and how that applied to what I value.
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So I valued doing something creative.
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I value being able to do
both technical and art.
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And that reflection process is something
that you typically don't get in
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other STEM classes, such as math or
more technical engineering classes.
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So I find it a very valuable skill,
especially as I moved on to higher level
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engineering classes where you're still
doing technical work, but sometimes it's
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too technical to the point where you
don't realize the bigger context of it and
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how it fits in with real world problems.
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So, the ePortfolio that you were
mentioning in that project, the
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water monitoring system was for
my junior design, um, electrical
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engineering and computer
engineering course, uh, last spring.
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So, the problem are.
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Professors gave for us was to choose
one of the U. N. Sustainability goals
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to create a potential solution for and
our class chose the problem of providing
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clean water and sanitation to all.
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So the first half of the course wasn't
actually making a technical solution.
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The first part is reflecting on the
bigger problem and the context as a
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whole, identifying the stakeholders,
the people involved, um, any
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electrical, um, processes involved.
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So that course, that part of the course,
um, was really valuable to see how.
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You can reflect and not only
focus on the technical, but
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that real, real world aspect.
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And still today, I feel like I have
a more, um, holistic view of how to
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approach problems because of that
reflection process in engineering
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and that I, I see, I asked my other
friends and other majors like mechanical
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engineering or chemical engineering.
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They don't really have as much of
a, um, design track or a reflection
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process as ECEG does, uh, ECEG being
Electrical and Computer Engineering.
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So I'm grateful how, for how much I've
been able to reflect and show that in
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my ePortfolios because I can always look
back and not only see that technical
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progress, but also that reflecting
process of where did I get stuck?
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How did I improve?
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And then what really matters is
how do I improve in the future too?
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And what do I make of this?
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What do I take from it going forward?
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I was thinking about, I saw, I, one of
the things that I read that it was so
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interesting because I heard the same
stories as well, which was, I think
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you were saying something about, you
know, your parents had told me of their
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process of fetching water, you know,
from wells and having to walk and, you
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know, like they basically have to walk.
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You know, through like, it's terrible
is through hills and, and, and,
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and, and bad weather conditions and
whatnot, just to get water so that
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you can bring back fetch water.
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And my, my parents were, oh, my,
my dad, his family, his family
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were refugees from, from China.
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During world war two and, um, they,
they didn't have that water fetching
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thing because they were living
in Hong Kong, which is, you know,
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sort of a pretty dense city, but
oftentimes they will run out of water.
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And so everyone has to go
get in line to get water.
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And I remember him.
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Telling me that, you know, like,
sometimes they don't even have the
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instruments to carry the water.
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So they just take plastic, like grocery
bags, like plastic bags, just take water.
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And sometimes they break after you get
in line for hours and then get to it.
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And then you're like, hopefully
the plastic bag hold up and
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then they can bring it home.
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And, and to be honest, once you
get home, what do you do with it?
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You know, hold on to it.
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A collapsible plastic
bag, you know what I mean?
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So I'm like hearing these stories and,
and I could, I remember reading that
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part and I'm thinking, you know, there
is something that you can take that
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experience that is so, even though you
didn't, it came from your culture, it
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came from, you know, like stories that
you were able to get from your parents.
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00:12:37,539 -->
00:12:40,189
Uh, it probably means something a
little bit different to you than to,
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00:12:40,515 -->
00:12:45,365
To others, you know, and it creates a
different set of meaning to, to the work.
218
00:12:45,375 -->
00:12:50,194
And I, I think that these are the types
of things that create sort of a sense
219
00:12:50,194 -->
00:12:57,135
of like purpose that drives the project
that drives it differently from then.
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00:12:57,204 -->
00:13:02,444
If your professor just gave you,
here's the problem, go solve it.
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00:13:03,405 -->
00:13:03,694
Yes.
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00:13:08,625
You, you made this connection
that goes, man, like.
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00:13:15,110
Like, it's not just a problem to solve,
but it's so critical because I can't
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00:13:21,220
imagine going through life without
that, without access to water and that
225
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00:13:25,169
the alternative is to do that, like,
that's not a good way to live, right?
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00:13:25,625 -->
00:13:28,705
Um, so it changes the way that
you approach it, doesn't it?
227
00:13:28,915 -->
00:13:34,485
It creates more value because, because
you reflect on why this matters.
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00:13:37,715
You're not doing it just for
a class, just to get a grade.
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00:13:41,404
You're doing it for the people who are
in need, the people who don't have access
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00:13:43,714
to this technology, to this clean water.
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00:13:47,495
And that's why it's so important
in the beginning to reflect on
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00:13:52,035
who are the stakeholders and who
does this project affect, because.
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00:13:56,130
That is where you get that
value for the project.
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00:13:56,140 -->
00:14:02,020
And sometime, one thing we did think
about was that our system required wifi
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00:14:06,699
because we wanted to push it to ThingSpeak
or, um, an online service where you can
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00:14:09,109
read the data of how clean your water is.
237
00:14:09,460 -->
00:14:15,490
And we were also wondering, Oh, we
wanted to place these devices in, um
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00:14:20,575
developing countries or people like,
yeah, just developing countries.
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00:14:20,575 -->
00:14:24,575
So we were wondering, Oh, do all of
those places have access to wifi?
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00:14:24,584 -->
00:14:30,205
So it's also being considerate of the
realistic resources that are available.
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00:14:30,385 -->
00:14:33,845
So we weren't able to interview
anyone from the places that we
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00:14:37,685
wanted to, potentially, per the
project, but that's also important
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00:14:43,605
getting real world, um, resources and
having that connection to who you're
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00:14:45,455
actually creating the product for.
245
00:14:46,404 -->
00:14:52,064
And I, I think that there is
something maybe even, I want to go
246
00:14:52,065 -->
00:14:55,085
like a little bit more meta on this.
247
00:14:55,735 -->
00:15:02,720
Um, I feel like that, you know, you
have learned in that particular, oh, we
248
00:15:02,720 -->
00:15:04,380
can pick this particular case, right?
249
00:15:04,390 -->
00:15:10,010
Like you, you have this water project
anyway, and then you were able to, to,
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00:15:17,410
to give it more purpose by empathetically
placing yourself in people's shoes,
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00:15:18,620
because these are your parents.
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00:15:24,130
Literal shoes and how they, that had
to walk through, you know, you know,
253
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00:15:27,719
like, you know, the streets and the,
you know, difficult conditions to
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00:15:29,410
even just to get access to water.
255
00:15:29,410 -->
00:15:32,210
That's how it would, what it would
be like if you don't have this.
256
00:15:32,210 -->
00:15:32,480
Right.
257
00:15:33,050 -->
00:15:39,420
So I think that this idea that, um,
yeah, finding purpose and drive to it is,
258
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00:15:44,800
is, is important, you know, but I also
would point out one more thing, which.
259
00:15:45,694 -->
00:15:51,994
I, I'm very interested in how students
are finding new paths as they create their
260
00:15:51,994 -->
00:15:55,104
neural pathways and how they think about
the world and make sense of the world.
261
00:15:56,415 -->
00:16:06,880
So in your case, there is also an
abstracted path that sets If I come
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00:16:12,060
across a new problem or a new thing
that I want to solve in life or a new
263
00:16:12,060 -->
00:16:18,760
way to think about the world, I can
look into real world situation, people
264
00:16:18,760 -->
00:16:24,529
I know, people, you know, um, things
that I've experienced and use that
265
00:16:24,989 -->
00:16:31,840
as a way to inform how I might drive,
how to answer that question, right?
266
00:16:32,230 -->
00:16:36,080
So it's one layer more abstracted
than just saying, Oh, I know in
267
00:16:36,080 -->
00:16:37,990
terms of water, this is the answer.
268
00:16:38,915 -->
00:16:39,755
And I get that.
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00:16:42,765
And I think everyone who'd be
listening would be like, Oh, wow.
270
00:16:42,765 -->
00:16:43,235
Yeah.
271
00:16:43,395 -->
00:16:46,205
Like some listeners
may identify with that.
272
00:16:46,205 -->
00:16:48,055
Some would go this first
time I ever heard of it.
273
00:16:48,705 -->
00:16:52,685
As far as I know in the whole world, you
turn on the tab and there comes water.
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00:16:52,764 -->
00:16:53,104
Right.
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00:16:53,555 -->
00:16:57,144
Um, and then there are people, by the
way, that has taken that for granted
276
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00:16:58,895
and didn't realize it in this city.
277
00:16:59,380 -->
00:16:59,520
Right?
278
00:16:59,530 -->
00:17:01,770
If you think about Flint
in Michigan, right?
279
00:17:01,850 -->
00:17:04,060
Yeah, we did that, but
the water wasn't safe.
280
00:17:04,579 -->
00:17:04,780
Right?
281
00:17:04,790 -->
00:17:08,709
So everyone has different stories and
they can, you can take that, but it's the
282
00:17:08,709 -->
00:17:15,200
idea that you are, you have now created a
new path that says, I'm going to be able
283
00:17:15,200 -->
00:17:20,300
to take other experiences that I've had
and then make these kinds of connections.
284
00:17:20,950 -->
00:17:26,805
So to me, that is one layer, a more
sophisticated Like two layers, more
285
00:17:26,805 -->
00:17:33,245
sophisticated than just someone said,
here's a project, solve it, right?
286
00:17:33,455 -->
00:17:38,085
Here's a bunch of water, find a
way to wirelessly, I don't know,
287
00:17:38,375 -->
00:17:43,045
detect is contaminant or, you
know, whether it's safe to drink.
288
00:17:43,115 -->
00:17:47,305
And I think it's also trying to put
yourself in the shoes of the people who
289
00:17:47,305 -->
00:17:51,205
are going through this problem because
like The empathy and the relationship.
290
00:17:51,225 -->
00:17:52,545
Yeah, right.
291
00:17:52,545 -->
00:17:52,805
Yeah.
292
00:17:53,304 -->
00:17:58,824
Because one of the things that I think
we can all work on here at Bucknell and,
293
00:17:58,875 -->
00:18:03,024
and under engineering projects is that
empathy and just being considerate of
294
00:18:03,024 -->
00:18:08,274
who we're making these projects for and
how are we designing for, for them, not
295
00:18:08,274 -->
00:18:15,165
just so it works and it's functional, but
to prioritize, um, the value it creates.
296
00:18:15,665 -->
00:18:20,280
That's something that I really admire
about Bucknell, being It has a very
297
00:18:20,280 -->
00:18:27,730
strong engineering program and you're
very brilliant professors who've, you
298
00:18:27,730 -->
00:18:34,640
know, who are very accomplished, but at
the same time, there is a, a very, um,
299
00:18:35,290 -->
00:18:39,629
equally strong liberal arts, um, focus.
300
00:18:40,510 -->
00:18:42,409
I want to talk a little bit about that.
301
00:18:42,639 -->
00:18:49,719
Like I, I'd imagine that you have the
choice and also probably the ability,
302
00:18:49,729 -->
00:18:56,619
you know, to go to schools that are
more purely engineering focused, more
303
00:18:56,619 -->
00:19:02,629
technical, um, maybe less like, so
the liberal arts, you know, sort of,
304
00:19:02,629 -->
00:19:05,389
uh, influenced, um, institutions.
305
00:19:05,859 -->
00:19:12,470
Why did you choose a place where The
liberal art, you can't, you couldn't
306
00:19:12,470 -->
00:19:14,020
just say, I'm going to ignore that.
307
00:19:14,050 -->
00:19:16,280
I'm just going to do the engineering part.
308
00:19:16,630 -->
00:19:16,990
Right.
309
00:19:17,690 -->
00:19:19,190
Um, why did you choose that?
310
00:19:19,815 -->
00:19:24,815
Yes, so when I was applying for
colleges, um, my senior year, one
311
00:19:25,215 -->
00:19:28,745
class that I took that I was really
inspired by was my engineering
312
00:19:28,745 -->
00:19:30,484
and design course in high school.
313
00:19:30,705 -->
00:19:34,735
So that course was 'an intro to
engineering' where we learned, uh, to
314
00:19:34,735 -->
00:19:39,975
learn fabrication techniques such as
laser cutting, 3D printing, working with
315
00:19:40,065 -->
00:19:42,005
perf boards, bread boards, soldering.
316
00:19:42,685 -->
00:19:45,575
But in addition to all of those
technical components, we have
317
00:19:45,575 -->
00:19:46,665
different projects for those.
318
00:19:46,905 -->
00:19:51,975
We also got to do and incorporate artistic
style to each one of those projects.
319
00:19:51,975 -->
00:19:58,385
So one of the projects was a synthesizer
or kind of a musically electronic device
320
00:19:58,385 -->
00:20:02,094
that would play music when you turn
it on, rotate the volume and sound.
321
00:20:02,324 -->
00:20:03,164
And we got to it.
322
00:20:03,550 -->
00:20:04,990
Decorate the enclosure of it.
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00:20:05,000 -->
00:20:08,780
So I had a really fun time using
Adobe Photoshop and illustrator to
324
00:20:09,040 -->
00:20:11,230
create those, um, that enclosure.
325
00:20:11,230 -->
00:20:15,160
So not only was it artistic, it
was also technical in that sense.
326
00:20:15,430 -->
00:20:19,739
And because I love that class so
much, my teachers and my advisor were
327
00:20:19,740 -->
00:20:21,609
pushing me to go into engineering.
328
00:20:21,610 -->
00:20:25,230
So one of the reasons I chose Bucknell
was for its engineering program.
329
00:20:25,620 -->
00:20:29,050
And also as I was searching, I saw
Bucknell had a lot of opportunities
330
00:20:29,060 -->
00:20:31,120
for the arts, even though it is small.
331
00:20:31,430 -->
00:20:32,409
I did.
332
00:20:32,655 -->
00:20:34,995
I wasn't sure if I wanted
to pursue arts in college.
333
00:20:34,995 -->
00:20:38,935
I just knew I wanted to do a computer
engineering, or I actually came in
334
00:20:38,935 -->
00:20:42,385
as a computer science major because
I really enjoyed that problem solving
335
00:20:42,394 -->
00:20:45,485
aspect of code and I knew Bucknell
had strong engineering program,
336
00:20:45,925 -->
00:20:47,615
but I came in as computer science.
337
00:20:47,925 -->
00:20:52,304
Um, I wasn't sure if I wanted to do art
because I was intimidated by the process
338
00:20:52,304 -->
00:20:56,920
of getting graded by art because sometimes
when I'm graded at doesn't feel like
339
00:20:56,920 -->
00:21:01,129
uniquely me and I can do whatever I want,
I'm doing it for someone else for a grade.
340
00:21:01,610 -->
00:21:05,460
So I wasn't sure if I wanted to do
art, but when I came in to Bucknell,
341
00:21:05,460 -->
00:21:09,169
I saw that they had a Res. College
Program, Residential Colleges.
342
00:21:09,180 -->
00:21:13,539
So you can take a class with the people
in your hall for your first semester
343
00:21:13,539 -->
00:21:15,129
and get to know that community.
344
00:21:15,129 -->
00:21:19,050
So I joined the Arts Res College and
I got to know those people really
345
00:21:19,050 -->
00:21:20,220
well and they're still friends.
346
00:21:20,500 -->
00:21:23,190
I'm still really great friends
with them to this day, like a whole
347
00:21:23,390 -->
00:21:25,510
floor of us are still friends.
348
00:21:25,829 -->
00:21:30,420
So that community and the size also
made Bucknell very appealing because
349
00:21:30,420 -->
00:21:34,495
everyone knows everyone and you
have such unique connection to those
350
00:21:34,515 -->
00:21:38,435
people because I also grew up in
small environments, small schools.
351
00:21:38,905 -->
00:21:44,385
And I also joined, um, a
pre-orientation program with arts folks.
352
00:21:44,395 -->
00:21:47,805
So having that arts was really
important to me and I knew at
353
00:21:47,805 -->
00:21:49,805
Bucknell I could achieve both of them.
354
00:21:49,805 -->
00:21:53,225
So after learning more about the
engineering program, I switched
355
00:21:53,225 -->
00:21:57,265
from computer science, which is more
software based, to computer engineering,
356
00:21:57,265 -->
00:22:01,405
which is a combination of hardware
and software, because my engineering
357
00:22:01,405 -->
00:22:06,745
and design course in high school was
more, um, electrical component based.
358
00:22:06,754 -->
00:22:09,165
So I knew I wanted to
do hands on components.
359
00:22:09,764 -->
00:22:12,465
So that's where the microcontrollers
and the sensors come in.
360
00:22:12,465 -->
00:22:17,094
So that's why I came in as
then computer engineering.
361
00:22:17,104 -->
00:22:21,440
And then I started, um, pursuing
a studio art degree or studio
362
00:22:21,450 -->
00:22:23,210
art minor in my sophomore year.
363
00:22:23,210 -->
00:22:28,390
And since then I've found a really
great way to combine my design skills
364
00:22:28,390 -->
00:22:32,569
because I've learned design in an
engineering context and design in
365
00:22:32,570 -->
00:22:34,680
an art context and graphic design.
366
00:22:34,690 -->
00:22:39,879
And I find it really interesting the
ways that you talk with your clients.
367
00:22:39,879 -->
00:22:43,649
You talk with people that you need
to interview for your project,
368
00:22:43,899 -->
00:22:48,149
and then you keep iterating and
iterating and going back, fixing
369
00:22:48,620 -->
00:22:51,050
anything, any mistakes to improve it.
370
00:22:51,409 -->
00:22:54,209
And you have this final project,
but it's not, nothing is
371
00:22:54,210 -->
00:22:55,879
ever really final in design.
372
00:22:55,889 -->
00:23:00,150
You always keep iterating, you're
only limited by time and resources.
373
00:23:00,160 -->
00:23:03,240
So that's why I really love the
connection between engineering and
374
00:23:03,250 -->
00:23:05,770
art because of that creation process.
375
00:23:06,040 -->
00:23:07,730
And Bucknell allows me to do that.
376
00:23:07,730 -->
00:23:12,030
So, I'm really glad that I was
able to pursue that and hopefully
377
00:23:12,080 -->
00:23:15,640
take these skills to the next
opportunity after Bucknell.
378
00:23:16,140 -->
00:23:17,010
I love all of this.
379
00:23:17,010 -->
00:23:19,870
And I think that it's so great that you.
380
00:23:20,395 -->
00:23:24,995
You know, through this, all of these
opportunities, I think that this idea of
381
00:23:25,095 -->
00:23:30,874
you developing that sense of, you know,
what kind of response, I think you wrote
382
00:23:30,874 -->
00:23:34,304
somewhere, I want to be a responsible
engineer or something like that.
383
00:23:34,995 -->
00:23:37,274
So I'm going to do that effect, um, is.
384
00:23:37,834 -->
00:23:41,704
Is, is so clear that it comes from
this kind of grounding, you know,
385
00:23:44,165 -->
00:23:50,054
I, I will say that, uh, in the, in
the 2010s, I lived in Silicon Valley
386
00:23:50,084 -->
00:23:55,614
for about 10 years and, and I will
honestly say that I met some really
387
00:23:55,624 -->
00:24:01,694
brilliant engineers, especially software
engineers and, um, many of them with
388
00:24:01,735 -->
00:24:07,475
advanced degrees and, and, you know,
like feel like that they are certified
389
00:24:07,475 -->
00:24:11,675
geniuses, you know, um, but, but they.
390
00:24:12,625 -->
00:24:20,305
They are so well regarded by the
big, you know, seven companies that
391
00:24:20,754 -->
00:24:26,365
rules the, you know, the world of
tech, um, that, you know, they get
392
00:24:26,365 -->
00:24:33,434
paid so much money, they get, they
get so many perks, um, that it was.
393
00:24:34,405 -->
00:24:38,675
You know, that, that drive or that
drive of, I want to be doing something
394
00:24:38,675 -->
00:24:45,695
responsible or helping people and all of
that sort of goes into the back burners.
395
00:24:46,135 -->
00:24:54,044
And I, I really do think that there is a
responsibility for education institutions
396
00:24:55,214 -->
00:25:02,885
to make sure that that aspect of
teaching does not get put into the back
397
00:25:02,885 -->
00:25:06,265
burners or that you do it by having one.
398
00:25:07,135 -->
00:25:09,965
Ethics course and, and call it done.
399
00:25:10,695 -->
00:25:17,895
Um, you know, um, I, I, I think that
it's extremely dangerous otherwise,
400
00:25:17,895 -->
00:25:22,955
because then now we have extremely
smart people yielding a huge amount of
401
00:25:22,955 -->
00:25:25,495
power and a huge amount of influence.
402
00:25:26,944 -->
00:25:28,774
Don't know what to do, right?
403
00:25:28,794 -->
00:25:30,595
They, they don't, they haven't.
404
00:25:30,635 -->
00:25:34,995
And I think I saw in one of
your, um, actually I copied it
405
00:25:34,995 -->
00:25:36,534
because I thought it was so cool.
406
00:25:36,534 -->
00:25:39,975
You had said it was you
described in a reflection.
407
00:25:40,575 -->
00:25:43,625
I'm going to read it out because
I, I thought it was really cool.
408
00:25:43,635 -->
00:25:44,425
Let me find it.
409
00:25:44,815 -->
00:25:49,635
It says, Throughout Project 2, I learned
to develop creative thinking skills,
410
00:25:49,635 -->
00:25:53,925
which was much different from Project
1, as we had a set, clear objective.
411
00:25:54,354 -->
00:25:59,484
But in Project 2, we had to come up with
our own questions and exploration paths.
412
00:26:00,024 -->
00:26:02,534
We had to discover ways to
solve our own questions.
413
00:26:03,155 -->
00:26:07,705
So, that to me is a really, it's
really, it's, it's something that
414
00:26:07,705 -->
00:26:09,785
many, actually many schools don't do.
415
00:26:09,965 -->
00:26:14,185
They don't let people do it
because, because they just,
416
00:26:14,194 -->
00:26:15,955
they have too many objectives.
417
00:26:15,965 -->
00:26:17,845
They want to make sure
their students get there.
418
00:26:18,035 -->
00:26:21,444
And if you were to ask your own questions,
you may not do their objectives, right?
419
00:26:21,934 -->
00:26:22,695
And so.
420
00:26:23,100 -->
00:26:28,270
Just for the sake of, you know, being
efficient and make sure that they're
421
00:26:28,320 -->
00:26:31,510
covering all of the checkboxes of
things that they want you to cover.
422
00:26:31,940 -->
00:26:35,040
They, they, they, uh, little bit thinking,
well, you know, it's better that I
423
00:26:35,060 -->
00:26:36,550
give you the problems, you solve it.
424
00:26:36,639 -->
00:26:39,869
And then we know that you can solve
the problem, but you don't get to
425
00:26:39,900 -->
00:26:44,080
ask the questions, like you said,
if you are always going to be very
426
00:26:44,080 -->
00:26:48,870
good at solving problems, so I've,
I've met a lot of people who.
427
00:26:49,250 -->
00:26:51,130
are brilliant at solving problems.
428
00:26:51,140 -->
00:26:55,100
In fact, you, you mention anything and
they're like, I will solve it for you.
429
00:26:56,050 -->
00:26:58,690
Whether you want them to
solve it for you or not.
430
00:27:00,040 -->
00:27:06,640
Um, but if you ask them, you
know, what do you want to do, um,
431
00:27:06,729 -->
00:27:08,110
they have a very difficult time.
432
00:27:08,350 -->
00:27:11,965
Because it's almost like, They were
never given a choice and to give any
433
00:27:11,965 -->
00:27:14,625
experience to, to be good at that.
434
00:27:15,044 -->
00:27:21,235
And I find that being able to ask
questions is, um, it should be
435
00:27:21,445 -->
00:27:24,705
pretty much, you know, as important
as being able to answer them.
436
00:27:25,175 -->
00:27:25,534
Yes.
437
00:27:25,974 -->
00:27:30,494
But if we focus so much on being able
to answer the questions and we're
438
00:27:30,494 -->
00:27:34,624
not allowed to ask, like be the one
asking the questions, it's difficult.
439
00:27:34,675 -->
00:27:38,725
And I think that, you know,
Education, if we look through
440
00:27:38,725 -->
00:27:43,945
even our, it sounds like you had a
wonderful K 12, you know, experience.
441
00:27:44,195 -->
00:27:48,264
But if we look at most curriculum
in general, at least traditional
442
00:27:48,285 -->
00:27:52,444
curriculum, um, at least I can say
that because yours may not be, have
443
00:27:52,444 -->
00:27:58,504
been that way, is that students are
rarely rewarded for asking questions.
444
00:27:58,984 -->
00:28:03,194
Actually, there are Um, very often
rewarded for answering questions.
445
00:28:03,644 -->
00:28:05,475
In fact, that's what an exam looks like.
446
00:28:05,624 -->
00:28:06,955
It's a bunch of questions.
447
00:28:07,034 -->
00:28:07,695
Yes.
448
00:28:08,195 -->
00:28:13,094
Um, it's not a bunch of, it's not a
bunch of questions you get to ask.
449
00:28:13,105 -->
00:28:15,225
It's a bunch of questions
that you have to answer.
450
00:28:15,644 -->
00:28:18,794
And there is a sort of a
right answer typically.
451
00:28:18,864 -->
00:28:19,154
Right.
452
00:28:20,115 -->
00:28:28,115
And so it really reflects on how
little our education system or
453
00:28:28,115 -->
00:28:32,284
maybe even our society values
the ability to ask questions.
454
00:28:32,685 -->
00:28:33,085
Yes.
455
00:28:33,085 -->
00:28:36,805
Because we test you on your ability
to answer them, but we never test
456
00:28:36,805 -->
00:28:38,155
you on your ability to ask them.
457
00:28:38,375 -->
00:28:38,915
Mm hmm.
458
00:28:38,935 -->
00:28:42,035
That's what I appreciate about
what Bucknell has taught me through
459
00:28:42,035 -->
00:28:45,615
the project courses because that
quote you read was from my, that
460
00:28:45,665 -->
00:28:47,805
Engineering 100 first course.
461
00:28:47,845 -->
00:28:52,845
And I remember doing that
like three years ago and.
462
00:28:53,095 -->
00:28:56,805
So they didn't wait till you, they didn't
say you must earn three years of credit.
463
00:28:56,825 -->
00:28:58,115
Now you get to ask the question.
464
00:28:58,115 -->
00:28:58,475
No.
465
00:28:58,524 -->
00:29:00,264
Like right your own project.
466
00:29:00,404 -->
00:29:00,965
Yes.
467
00:29:00,995 -->
00:29:06,624
So I remember like trying to figure out
having that experience was important
468
00:29:06,644 -->
00:29:11,544
to be able to see what is valuable
because we had all of this data.
469
00:29:11,544 -->
00:29:13,154
We had our system working.
470
00:29:13,724 -->
00:29:15,485
But what is valuable to show?
471
00:29:15,495 -->
00:29:16,394
We have dates.
472
00:29:16,394 -->
00:29:17,944
We have times.
473
00:29:18,214 -->
00:29:25,320
Um, so Looking through and being able to
pinpoint what do we think is best to show
474
00:29:25,340 -->
00:29:29,930
and how do we show it was so valuable
and then that carries on for the next
475
00:29:29,930 -->
00:29:35,409
few years in the design tract as in, I
don't, if you saw my EKG 201 portfolio
476
00:29:35,669 -->
00:29:41,569
that was designing, like we made, um,
the DAMS project, it is a acronym for
477
00:29:41,629 -->
00:29:46,209
a machine that we build in sophomore
design where we have to choose a, a, um,
478
00:29:46,390 -->
00:29:48,770
Value choose a problem for it to solve.
479
00:29:48,780 -->
00:29:53,150
So I made a color, a reader where
you can read the color of things
480
00:29:53,150 -->
00:29:57,349
and it has like an educational game
component and with senior design.
481
00:29:57,349 -->
00:30:01,429
Now, all of those questions, open
ended questions that our professors
482
00:30:01,429 -->
00:30:06,190
and curriculum have led us to those
accumulate in our senior design project
483
00:30:06,200 -->
00:30:12,535
where we're getting direction from a
client, but it's also up to us to pinpoint
484
00:30:12,535 -->
00:30:17,425
the things that our client may not have
considered and ask those questions.
485
00:30:17,425 -->
00:30:21,265
And even if the client proposes
something, we should counteract that
486
00:30:21,265 -->
00:30:25,045
and really consider it in relation
to the whole project to see if it's
487
00:30:25,045 -->
00:30:26,575
really good for the whole project.
488
00:30:26,575 -->
00:30:30,235
So being able to question and really
choose what is valuable and what
489
00:30:30,235 -->
00:30:34,465
matters is something that Bucknell
has really, prac ha has allowed me to
490
00:30:34,465 -->
00:30:36,885
practice throughout our projects here.
491
00:30:37,760 -->
00:30:42,620
And I too, that's why I love the, the
program at Bucknell so much as well,
492
00:30:42,630 -->
00:30:49,230
because it's, it is these abilities
that to me is what's going to, um, to
493
00:30:49,230 -->
00:30:54,299
create a world where, you know, we're
doing it not purely based on whether I
494
00:30:54,299 -->
00:30:59,530
can get a job or whether I'm going to
get those perks or this, you know, you
495
00:30:59,530 -->
00:31:04,670
know, the, the, whatever the, whatever
the, the, the salary might be and so on.
496
00:31:04,930 -->
00:31:08,485
It, it, there is a. Uh,
uh, multiple drives.
497
00:31:08,545 -->
00:31:11,285
I'm, I've, those are all things
that you should consider, right?
498
00:31:11,365 -->
00:31:13,285
I'm sure you're thinking
you're senior now.
499
00:31:13,285 -->
00:31:16,284
I don't know what your plans are yet,
which we can talk about later, but
500
00:31:16,315 -->
00:31:19,135
you know that you, you should think
about those things, obviously, right?
501
00:31:19,494 -->
00:31:23,604
But you also, I, I, I just have
this feeling that you're also
502
00:31:23,604 -->
00:31:27,494
not going to just blindly go into
a job just because you're paid.
503
00:31:27,884 -->
00:31:34,780
Um, and, and I feel like that, by the way,
When I was, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm much older,
504
00:31:34,820 -->
00:31:36,780
I'm sort of the last generation, right?
505
00:31:37,130 -->
00:31:44,269
Um, my, I would say that, you know,
my parents probably just, the,
506
00:31:44,360 -->
00:31:47,119
the most important thing is just
to get a job, get a good job, get
507
00:31:47,120 -->
00:31:49,200
a job that pays well, hopefully.
508
00:31:49,819 -->
00:31:57,780
Um, none of them, I would say, ever
expected it to be, you know, to consider
509
00:31:57,850 -->
00:32:01,270
a different dimension of success,
like, do you make something that's
510
00:32:01,280 -->
00:32:05,750
meaningful, that brings you fulfillment
and joy and all that stuff, right?
511
00:32:06,150 -->
00:32:10,920
Because for, for them, it's a
lot more about, you know, if you
512
00:32:10,920 -->
00:32:13,329
can make it up money, then you'll
find the joy later, you know?
513
00:32:13,330 -->
00:32:19,020
Yes, very different definitions of
success from generation to generation.
514
00:32:19,020 -->
00:32:19,280
Yes.
515
00:32:19,860 -->
00:32:20,170
Yeah.
516
00:32:20,170 -->
00:32:26,650
And I, so, so I, I, I think that that's
something that, um, it's easy to get lost
517
00:32:26,650 -->
00:32:33,279
in because we, we, we just have a culture
of not putting a lot of emphasis on
518
00:32:33,279 -->
00:32:37,880
that, being able to question things and,
and being valued and then being, being
519
00:32:37,880 -->
00:32:42,610
able to like get rewarded for that, you
know, like if I were to give it, Okay.
520
00:32:43,610 -->
00:32:47,870
Like, I, I, when I taught, I never
gave exams, but if I were to give
521
00:32:47,870 -->
00:32:51,960
exams, you know, half of it would
have been about asking questions.
522
00:32:52,050 -->
00:32:57,899
Just ask any questions, you know,
um, and, uh, and, and, and, but we
523
00:32:57,899 -->
00:33:02,630
don't do that because it's not the
norm and it feels like getting to the
524
00:33:02,630 -->
00:33:04,290
answer is the more important part.
525
00:33:04,690 -->
00:33:07,270
Um, I actually think
that, you know, like we.
526
00:33:07,595 -->
00:33:12,125
People always talk about getting leaders
and developing leadership skills.
527
00:33:12,405 -->
00:33:14,135
Leaders that can't ask questions.
528
00:33:14,135 -->
00:33:19,475
I don't know how they can lead, you
know, like, like you can only lead
529
00:33:19,525 -->
00:33:23,985
like in those cases, I feel like,
okay, let's say you somehow get the
530
00:33:23,995 -->
00:33:28,345
leadership skill, meaning you got people
to, to do what you want them to do,
531
00:33:28,545 -->
00:33:30,075
except that you don't know what to do.
532
00:33:30,135 -->
00:33:32,375
So where are you leading them to?
533
00:33:32,375 -->
00:33:33,815
Is it up, down, left or right?
534
00:33:34,225 -->
00:33:34,585
Right.
535
00:33:35,095 -->
00:33:38,335
And a good leader is always just
thinking of multiple dimensions too.
536
00:33:38,335 -->
00:33:41,305
It's not just what to do, it's
what you have done in the past.
537
00:33:41,305 -->
00:33:43,105
It's how can you improve.
538
00:33:43,105 -->
00:33:46,615
So it's always asking questions, making
sure you're in line with the team.
539
00:33:46,615 -->
00:33:51,505
And sometimes also just being able to, to
listen to other people's questions too...
540
00:33:51,805 -->
00:33:55,945
'cause sometimes I'm, um, a project
manager on my senior design team
541
00:33:55,945 -->
00:33:59,265
and that involves like servant
leadership, as they call it.
542
00:33:59,265 -->
00:34:03,135
So you're like listening to what
the people on your team have to say.
543
00:34:03,135 -->
00:34:07,595
And how do you form that and like build
on that and ask questions like, okay,
544
00:34:07,595 -->
00:34:09,694
you told me you need this by this date.
545
00:34:09,755 -->
00:34:10,785
How can I help you?
546
00:34:10,795 -->
00:34:12,974
How can I do this for you?
547
00:34:12,984 -->
00:34:13,785
Things like that.
548
00:34:13,825 -->
00:34:16,024
So that is very important
skill as a leader.
549
00:34:16,024 -->
00:34:16,444
I agree.
550
00:34:16,444 -->
00:34:16,944
Yes.
551
00:34:17,054 -->
00:34:17,364
Yeah.
552
00:34:17,544 -->
00:34:18,154
Amazing.
553
00:34:18,435 -->
00:34:24,995
So I. I, I feel like if I don't tell
you this now, you'd think that, you
554
00:34:24,995 -->
00:34:26,805
know, like, why did I hide it from you?
555
00:34:26,905 -->
00:34:30,945
I should share with you that I actually
went to an art and design school as well.
556
00:34:30,945 -->
00:34:33,864
So when you talked about your
design process and I, when I read
557
00:34:33,865 -->
00:34:35,494
about all them, oh, this is lovely.
558
00:34:35,795 -->
00:34:38,534
You talked about the whole
iterative process, but I think
559
00:34:38,535 -->
00:34:41,975
that this is what new generations
of students are all going to be.
560
00:34:42,280 -->
00:34:50,660
I think they're all going to, um, amass
multidisciplinary thinking processes.
561
00:34:51,220 -->
00:34:55,240
So you've acquired a lot of this
engineering and then like you just
562
00:34:55,250 -->
00:34:59,449
talked about project management and
then you talked about art and design.
563
00:34:59,880 -->
00:35:04,270
You know, you talk about working with,
you know, clients and, you know, having to
564
00:35:04,270 -->
00:35:09,790
push back on their, their, their demands
and, you know, these and then engineering
565
00:35:09,790 -->
00:35:14,040
itself, you know, all of these.
566
00:35:15,535 -->
00:35:20,815
different disciplines brings about,
I believe they bring about sometimes
567
00:35:20,815 -->
00:35:23,885
slightly different ways of looking
at the world and different ways.
568
00:35:23,925 -->
00:35:28,004
And I think Liberal Arts actually is
the one that really tries to bring
569
00:35:28,005 -->
00:35:31,385
together a lot of these different ways
of thinking, you know, whether it be
570
00:35:31,634 -->
00:35:36,355
through the lens of religion, whether
it's through the lens of, you know, social
571
00:35:36,355 -->
00:35:42,424
work, uh, whether the lens of law and
society, right, history, but it could
572
00:35:42,424 -->
00:35:44,595
also be about Microbiology, you know.
573
00:35:45,115 -->
00:35:50,595
Um, And, and the different ways of
thinking about the world allows, I
574
00:35:50,595 -->
00:35:58,584
really believe that it allows us to just
have many more tools on our tool belt
575
00:35:58,745 -->
00:36:01,335
to be able to ask and answer questions.
576
00:36:02,065 -->
00:36:03,655
But if we don't develop those.
577
00:36:04,470 -->
00:36:07,980
You become fairly limited in
how you can do that, right?
578
00:36:08,250 -->
00:36:13,209
And some of it comes sort of comes
like by default, like in your case,
579
00:36:13,650 -->
00:36:19,730
your parents having had this experience
of having to gather water is.
580
00:36:20,390 -->
00:36:23,660
Is something that came by
default for you through their
581
00:36:23,670 -->
00:36:25,560
hard work, by the way, right?
582
00:36:25,630 -->
00:36:30,919
But it came default for you and you
can use it, which is fantastic, right?
583
00:36:31,240 -->
00:36:37,109
So this, I think this is really
where I know that right this minute.
584
00:36:37,485 -->
00:36:43,995
Like, people are attacking DI and there's
all kinds of issues around that right now.
585
00:36:44,315 -->
00:36:49,104
But I really think that just the diverse
thinking from all the different fields
586
00:36:49,104 -->
00:36:53,925
and disciplines and studies and world
experience, like lived experiences, is
587
00:36:53,925 -->
00:37:01,245
what will make you a better contributor
to society, because those are the
588
00:37:01,245 -->
00:37:05,914
things you can draw upon, whereas if
you don't have that, you can't, if you
589
00:37:05,915 -->
00:37:10,124
didn't take that design or, you know,
that design engineering course that,
590
00:37:10,165 -->
00:37:13,614
you know, in your senior year in high
school, you wouldn't have been able
591
00:37:13,615 -->
00:37:19,350
to draw from that to know what to do
next, you know, and And, and that to
592
00:37:19,350 -->
00:37:21,880
me is, is going to be really critical.
593
00:37:21,880 -->
00:37:27,760
I, I saw in one of your, um, internships,
actually, I think in two, maybe not
594
00:37:27,819 -->
00:37:32,530
just one, that you had worked on some
areas where, um, there was one, I think
595
00:37:32,530 -->
00:37:37,370
it was in a cybersecurity company and
another in, um, I think it was like web
596
00:37:37,370 -->
00:37:39,780
development or something, but it, yes, it.
597
00:37:41,030 -->
00:37:45,190
At least one of them had something to do
with AI, I think, the cyber security one.
598
00:37:45,280 -->
00:37:49,400
There's the second one, um, it
was a Machine Learning Internship
599
00:37:49,409 -->
00:37:51,029
at Flowcode in New York.
600
00:37:51,090 -->
00:37:51,780
Yes.
601
00:37:51,869 -->
00:37:52,049
Right.
602
00:37:52,610 -->
00:37:53,050
So.
603
00:37:54,540 -->
00:37:57,560
Given, you know, where that's going,
I think that's an interesting one
604
00:37:57,560 -->
00:37:59,310
to maybe spend a little time on.
605
00:37:59,830 -->
00:38:06,649
What are your thoughts on AI and
what that means for you as, first
606
00:38:06,649 -->
00:38:11,140
of all, as a student, but also as
a student who's about to graduate?
607
00:38:11,410 -->
00:38:13,714
I'm assuming you're about
to graduate this summer?
608
00:38:13,714 -->
00:38:15,129
Yes, this spring.
609
00:38:15,310 -->
00:38:16,450
Um, this spring?
610
00:38:16,500 -->
00:38:18,050
At the end of the spring semester?
611
00:38:18,540 -->
00:38:20,520
By the way, before we deal
with that, what's your plan?
612
00:38:20,530 -->
00:38:21,510
What are you doing after?
613
00:38:21,920 -->
00:38:25,150
So, I am currently job
hunting and networking.
614
00:38:25,440 -->
00:38:29,019
Uh, because of my interest in
both tech and art, I'm looking
615
00:38:29,019 -->
00:38:30,524
for a position to work in.
616
00:38:31,025 -->
00:38:35,605
My first choice would be something
in VR, XR, so Virtual Reality, and
617
00:38:35,755 -->
00:38:39,985
Augmented Reality, because I have those
skills and it's, I feel like I have
618
00:38:39,985 -->
00:38:45,445
a niche combination of both tech and
art, so something with VR development,
619
00:38:45,445 -->
00:38:51,685
so some options would be, um, creating
simulations or game design, uh, Another
620
00:38:51,685 -->
00:38:55,115
option I've been looking into is
web design, web development, because
621
00:38:55,125 -->
00:39:00,465
again, that combination of coding and
design, um, maybe software engineering.
622
00:39:00,515 -->
00:39:06,335
So I've just been connecting and
reaching out to alumni and professors.
623
00:39:06,345 -->
00:39:10,885
So if you have an opportunity that, uh,
lies around at the intersection of art
624
00:39:10,915 -->
00:39:12,535
and STEM, I would love to hear about it.
625
00:39:12,965 -->
00:39:19,015
So for anyone listening, um, if you,
your neighbors, your friends, anyone,
626
00:39:19,025 -->
00:39:25,405
you know, is looking for, I think that by
now, if you listen in, I think it's like
627
00:39:25,415 -->
00:39:30,694
40 minutes or so, um, you probably have
gotten a really good feeling about Clea
628
00:39:30,835 -->
00:39:36,215
and the type of people that, the type
of person she is, but also, you know,
629
00:39:36,225 -->
00:39:44,020
how, you know, today, I think being A
pure engineer is simply not good enough.
630
00:39:44,640 -->
00:39:49,800
It's an engineer with heart, with
empathy, with the ability to reflect,
631
00:39:50,040 -->
00:39:54,889
the ability to bring, bring her
history and her lived experience
632
00:39:54,890 -->
00:39:58,744
and even her culture and everything
to it is what's going to make her.
633
00:39:58,895 -->
00:40:03,675
I believe, you know, an ideal, really
strong candidate for any of those
634
00:40:03,685 -->
00:40:05,105
jobs that are related in those areas.
635
00:40:05,115 -->
00:40:10,515
So if anyone's listening, we'll put your,
uh, um, information into, into the show
636
00:40:10,515 -->
00:40:17,330
notes, um, you know, contact her because,
um, She'll, she'll get, I, I, I think
637
00:40:17,340 -->
00:40:22,110
that you're going to get snatched up and
you will have lots of offers and, um,
638
00:40:22,170 -->
00:40:23,410
yeah, I don't think you should worry.
639
00:40:23,410 -->
00:40:24,040
I hope so.
640
00:40:24,350 -->
00:40:28,319
You, I, I think that you'll, you'll,
you'll, you'll be, you'll be a
641
00:40:28,319 -->
00:40:29,820
great find for lots of people.
642
00:40:30,180 -->
00:40:30,360
Thank you.
643
00:40:30,360 -->
00:40:31,320
Hopefully you're not too late.
644
00:40:31,320 -->
00:40:35,180
Those who are listening and going, oh, I
better con connect with her and we'll put
645
00:40:35,180 -->
00:40:38,930
your LinkedIn profile and your portfolio
has a LinkedIn link there as as well.
646
00:40:38,930 -->
00:40:40,790
And your art, you know, link and all that.
647
00:40:40,790 -->
00:40:42,055
Ra we'll, we'll listen.
648
00:40:42,055 -->
00:40:42,056
Yes.
649
00:40:42,056 -->
00:40:42,620
It's linked Everything.
650
00:40:42,860 -->
00:40:43,070
Yep.
651
00:40:43,690 -->
00:40:47,380
Here's a preview of what's coming up
next In part two of my conversation
652
00:40:47,380 -->
00:40:51,340
with Clea Ramos, a student studying
computer engineering and studio
653
00:40:51,340 -->
00:40:52,930
arts at Bucknell University.
654
00:40:53,445 -->
00:40:57,645
I still have hope, you know, because,
because I'm, I feel like what you were
655
00:40:57,645 -->
00:41:01,105
saying, it's not enough to be just an
engineer, you need to have all of those
656
00:41:01,115 -->
00:41:05,565
skills and that interdisciplinary, which
I think AI could never replace all of
657
00:41:05,565 -->
00:41:10,615
those, like, human aspects that makes
a person a person because what, how you
658
00:41:10,635 -->
00:41:14,725
provide value in your work are, like
you said, your past experience and your
659
00:41:14,725 -->
00:41:19,365
identity, how all of those aspects of
your identity and what you've been through
660
00:41:19,365 -->
00:41:21,305
affect how you do your current work.
661
00:41:21,785 -->
00:41:24,825
Which, AI could never have
that, like, history built in.
