Gary: you turn your head And you're like, "Hey." And I was like "What?" You go, "Are you climbing a mountain later, And I was like, "No." And he goes, "Why are you eating that bar?" He goes, "It's literally named, like, Clif Bar. It's meant for people- ...who are about to, go on, climb a mountain. You're burning a ton of calories, and you need something like to get your glycogen up." Peter, we have returned.
Peter: Again Three minutes?
Gary: of our last show, we talked about how you were gonna be late 'cause you had to go pee.
Peter: I was late
Gary: And you were right on time. It was pretty good. You did send a text in there or two. Do you ever, have you ever thought about what goes on in a day- you and I? It
Peter: It is unbelievable. It is very distracting.
Gary: like, there's a lot of things happening All of the time. All the time. Yeah. The fact that we squeeze in a podcast Is
Peter: Is
Gary: pretty- It's remarkable ... Yeah,
Peter: is- Yes. Yeah, these days that we have to focus and dial in- Mm-hmm ... is so im- im- incredibly important- Yeah ... for my stupid mind.
Gary: Even then when I go home and plug these things in, these cards, they download for hours in the background. Like there's always
Peter: Is it still two hours?
Gary: Well, 'cause I haven't changed the- Oh I have to change the computer at some point. yeah, yeah. yeah. It is a little bit better though with the new, uh... I got some new, new, uh, cards. Yeah.
Peter: Are they a little faster?
Gary: but they're still limited by the port a little bit, but they're a little bit better. But whatever. Anyway, interesting. Just a normal day
Peter: Fascinating. It is a lot.
Gary: like run from one thing to the next,
Peter: it's fun, but it's a lot.
Gary: It's like tiring. At the end of the day,
Peter: It's ...just like the, ...the, amount that your brain has like, "
Gary: eh. Yeah. There's a lot going on. So anyway, that being said, one of the reasons I bring that up is because in most of the days I often, um, I don't eat a lot when I'm here.
Peter: So- you have lunch? No, sometimes.
Gary: even have lunch here. Yeah. I typically have a banana. And then I have a protein bar, and then I'll go home, and then I'll eat
Peter: I get home. Why did you stop eating lunch here?
Gary: lunch. Um, because it just, because my days kind of end, like somewhere near closest to lunch and just feel like, more of a pain in the ass- to eat here. So I just started doing it at home But then I was like, "Well, I'm just gonna have a protein bar- Mm every day," which brings up today's
Peter: That's a mistake.
Gary: I actually forgot... I meant to bring one. I'll have to look it up on my phone. Yeah. Um, I wanna talk about protein bars. Because-
Peter: Oh, that's such a rabbit hole. 'Cause they are- That's a good
Gary: That's a good one ...as ubiquitous a word. Yeah. Kind of meaning everywhere. Everywhere- That's thing,
Peter: thing, right? Ubi- correct.
Gary: So they're essentially ubiquitous. You see them everywhere. can get them at gas stations. You can get them at like Walmart and Target. Mm. You grocery stores. You get them everywhere. They're clearly... There's a new brand coming out single day.
Peter: It's just so much money in protein
Gary: There's a ton of marketing around them. Um, you know, billion or trillion dollar industry at this point. So yeah. Pretty much everybody eats them. Yeah. You know, most people have them. I think many people feel as though they're healthy.
Peter: Yeah. that's the reason why- a billion-dollar industry.
Gary: I think a lot of people will use them, uh, probably more than they should.
Peter: them as meal substitutes.
Gary: Yeah. Uh,
Peter: Yeah. you.
Gary: so I guess what I wanted to go down, what I wanted, uh, to talk about a little bit- is like, protein bars in general, your thoughts on protein bars, what they should be used for, what they shouldn't be used for. Um, I actually have a like a funny story, I've repeated this story. You've heard it a million times as I've... our friends or whatever, but like when You were my And I was sit- we were both sitting at, like, " a Uh, like, um, in an office, like, I
Peter: years ago, ...
Gary: yeah, I was at my desk. You were at your desk, and I was like, I was in the process of attempting to like, start losing weight. trying to eat better. Mm-hmm. My version of that was, was not ideal, but part of this was, like, oh, um, instead of having like um, I forget what my morning snack would have, would have normally been, probably like a Snickers or something, but like, it was- Pretzels and candy ... it was pretzels and candy. had a candy drawer- up. ...right next to you. You, you don't have to, like,
Peter: had an insane...
Gary: I was like, okay, I need, like, a- m- ...I need, like, a healthy morning snack- get me to lunchtime, at which point I'll go get Subway. But Whatever.
Peter: On wheat bread. But
Gary: so, so my morning snack w- was a CLIF Bar. Yes. And so I'm sitting there eating a Clif Bar, 'cause in my head it's like a protein bar or whatever, like a healthy- It's a healthy bar ... like a bar, right? 'Cause I don't know what, at the time I was like, "I don't know and you literally just like you looked at me. I felt like, I felt like, you turn your head And you're like, "Hey." And I was like "What?" You go, "Are you climbing a mountain later, And I, And I was like, "No." And he goes, "Why are you eating that bar?" He goes, "It's literally named, like, Clif Bar. It's meant for people- ...who are about to, like, go on, like you know, climb a mountain. You're burning a ton of calories, and you need something like to get your glycogen up."
Peter: is of a guy,
Gary: a climbing. It's a- guy hanging from a cliff, Yeah. He's like? "It's kinda meant for those." Literally. like, "If you're eating that as like your snack- Yeah ... ...that's probably not what it was meant for." at all. Yeah.
Peter: you remember That Yes, I rem- I remember that very clearly. you, just... 'Cause,
Gary: They were so good too. I'd get
Peter: the bottom. Yes, they're so tasty. good. I was aware of your, like attempt at like, Yeah ... trying to lose weight at that time. so I was-
Gary: was your way of telling
Peter: I, ha- I, Yeah. I It was It'd be unethical- I-
Gary: you, proceeded to grab it out of my hands. And you started reading the ingredients, the calories, the, like whatever. and I was like, Oh, okay, I guess I'm not eating those anymore." And then I think I tried to switch to some other bar- Yeah ... at which like the next day or a, couple days later, at which point you ripped that out of my hands. And were " like, "Nope, Better, but, but still pretty
Peter: still pretty shitty, yeah.
Gary: And so then, so then that sort of brings up my thing, So I think there's different bars for different
Peter: Totally. But, but the general public doesn't know. They just see protein
Gary: and they look for the one that they like or might, maybe that tastes the best.
Peter: Or they look for the one, like- when first what does it look like? does it look like? That looks cool. taste good? Oh, that's man.
Gary: And so I think maybe let's talk a little bit real quick about like okay, the different types of bars that exist. Neither of us are experts on bars, but I just gave an example. Mm-hmm. There's the bar for, like, the athlete.
Peter: Yeah.
Gary: Right? Like, the person who is about to burn a ton of calories. Mm-hmm. So I think those are, like the Clif bars- Mm-hmm ... would be, like, one. They probably have like a, a healthier one also. But normal Yeah ...Clif Bar- one that's been around forever, is kinda like that. I think there are some, like there's some, like Gatorade, like, uh, maybe a Gatorade or, like, a company, like a, like a nutrition, like, Optimum Nutrition, like pro- like a, the Whey Nutri- like, the ones that are meant for like, mass gaining. Like, they're literally, like calorie. RX
Peter: bar. No, not, not RX. Um,
Gary: Met-Rx. Met-Rx
Peter: Met-Rx. Met-Rx.
Gary: Yeah. That's
Peter: Those are like the meal replacement They're, like, 350 calories
Gary: so So those are not somebody who's like just trying to, like, have, like- uh, like a a snack or something- ...that's like, you know, or they're trying to get, like, a protein trying to add
Peter: No, that has intentionally a lot of fat- lot of carbs, and a lot of protein. Okay.
Gary: So those are two that I can think of, like off the top of my head that are kinda meant for, like the athlete.
Peter: They're
Gary: meant- Right
Peter: they're meant- they a specific
Gary: yeah, like gain or Right? Um, then we have like The, bars that. are, that are geared towards, um, protein. Mm-hmm. Right? For
Peter: specifically for protein. Yeah.
Gary: Um, and I... f- when I think of those, I think of maybe, like, the David bar.
Peter: Mm-hmm. Well, David bar is the best example because it has the best macronutrient profile, meaning it has the most amount of protein and the least amount of fat and carbs of all of those styles of bars.
Gary: And then I think there's kinda like meal replacement bars.
Peter: I think we just said that. The meal... Like, The Metrics
Gary: you think those are, like, meal re- I think there's others that are, like- almost meant... I think they're made by companies, maybe like Weight Watchers or some of those people that actually design like, a, a bar that's, like, meant to be- Yeah, uh ...considered, like, a meal
Peter: My thought is if it has like, 300-plus calories, It's Yeah. It's like, intentionally designed to have,
Gary: calories, Wait, does your meals only have 300 calories? Well, problem number one. Right. I guess I need more. I need a bar that has 1,000 calories.
Peter: my God. The, yeah, they make powders for that.
Gary: Uh, yeah, powders probably fall into this category. Okay. so I, I think of, like- so I guess in my categories, I don't, you " know, I don't have like an official, I don't know, maybe in the business there's an official category list, but there's sort of I think there's- Mm ... like sort of, the athletic ones or whatever. There's the protein ones- meal
Peter: ones. Yeah, I think those are the, generally th- the three categories. three categories There's three genres, yeah?
Gary: I think for most people, right, like let, let's, let's kinda remove, like the athletes, let's remove, um, just like meal replacement. I think most people do it- Yeah ... for the actual protein. That's why they're called protein bars.
Peter: think the average
Gary: in today's- .........is
Peter: to get a healthy protein bar. Right. I think that's the average
Gary: and with the focus, as we talked about on a prior episode, of like there's protein everywhere, it's being marketed to everybody, People need more protein,
Peter: We're gonna give it to them It's labeled on chips.
Gary: It's labeled in shops. Right, it's labeled everywhere, so we talked about that. But I think with the bars in particular, I think most people in, in current times are seeking these bars out to get the protein. Mm-hmm. Right? But that's a way It's a So it's a way to supplement protein because most people aren't getting enough through
Peter: food I think the decision-making is real easy. Protein equals healthy. Protein bar equals health. like that's just, that's it. It's like I want a healthy choice. I'm trying to be good. Let me grab a protein
Gary: bar. Okay. so say you were picking up a bar. Right? So say they were just Let's ignore the brands for right now. You're just picking up a bar, it's like a blank label. except for the back where it has, like, nutritional value on it- or, or whatever. Yeah. What does Peter- like, look for when he turns it over to say, "Am I even going to consume this thing?" Mm. I'm really hungry, but I'm not willing to, sacrifice all of, like, my hard work." Um, what i- what should, should... What do you look for, and what should people look for on the back of that label- Mm to know whether or not
Peter: average person?
Gary: Yeah, just... Well, the person who's looking for a protein bar. Okay. But doesn't want to, like, you know, You don't, uh, we're not looking to like gain weight. you know, like, you're not the Yeah ......the athlete trying to gain weight. not the person going to climb a mountain. I'm just the average person. maybe it's even a little bit of a meal replacement- Mm ... but wanna get my protein up throughout the day. What am I looking for on the back of the label to know that this thing is, uh, is okay to eat?
Peter: Yeah, and you can't know unless you You've no, you have no
Gary: Yeah,
Peter: I mean,
Gary: can't- to the branding the
Peter: the branding on the front You can't learn, the branding- doesn't mean shit. Right, right, right. It's just, it's literally by, like the sales and marketing team. Right. How can I get somebody most likely to buy this product? Right. Like so that just tells you nothing. So, so you have to look at the labels, which means you have to be able to read labels. Really the only, the only three things that you... Well, four things. You say, "Okay, how many calories does it have?" And You go, "Well, what are my macronutrients?" ' Cause it could be 200 calories, and it could be what is essentially an energy bar. It could be mostly carbs, and then that's a different thing. So then, but it could be labeled as a protein bar. Like, they use protein on the thing because it's like people want it
Gary: Right.
Peter: So you look at the calories. If it's above 200, probably a bad choice. You generally want, for the regular person, you want your protein bar to be somewhere between 150, 200 So you do that first, and then you look at the macros and you go, "Okay, well, what's the highest one?" If protein's not the highest one, throw it, move on immediately.
Gary: Macros being what?
Peter: Protein, carbs, and
Gary: fats. Proteins, carbs, and fats. So the protein should be the highest of those
Peter: by, like by
Gary: meaning that most of the calories in the bar are coming from the protein.
Peter: Correct. Yeah. and so it's, like real simple math. Especially when you're talking about that calorie range, 150 to 200. If you're no... If you're not... like I'd say if you're under two, like 20 cal- like 20 grams of protein- then you should throw it away. Because then w- way more than is necessary is coming from carbs and fats, which is again, more of a mini meal replacement bar- Yeah ... than it is a protein
Gary: Because the carb... Well, especially the fats, the fats are gonna be a little bit more
Peter: fabs make it more dense.
Gary: uh, it will make if it... say it was really high in, like, the fat in terms of meal replacement. would that make it a more effective meal replacement bar in the sense that it will make me feel less hungry because the fat is, like,
Peter: F- fat doesn't do a great job of making you feel less hungry. It's a very... It's, it's okay. I wouldn't put it up there as like, like eat more fat to be more full. I don't think that's a good strategy. but it when I think of a meal replacement bar, I think of an equal distribution of fats, carbs, and proteins- to get like, like to mimic a, a healthy, like, whole food meal.
Gary: Versus a protein bar, which would be- towards the
Peter: is you're try-- like, boy, that protein should be, like, 10 times higher than the other
Gary: I know, uh, my wife, Jessica, has this ratio- Mm ... that she does, which is essentially kind of what you had just said without saying the actual ratio. And I think she heard this on a podcast or on an Instagram or something somewhere, but, but it seems to be, like, in line with what you were saying. Which basically takes the number of, of protein- Yeah ... multiplies it by 10. And the calories, so say it's 20 grams- Yeah ... of, protein times 10, your calories, should fall right around that number. So 200, in this case it? would be 200. 20 grams of protein times 10, you know, whatever. So if you had a bar that, only had 14 grams of protein- then the calories should be around 140,
Peter: Which those bars are rare. Usually if a bar has 15 grams of protein. it has more carbs or more And usually they'll do more carbs because it.
Gary: in it. So in that scenario, let's say it had 15 grams. But the bar itself was 200 calories. Mm-hmm. That's a bar, like, that she would not buy. Because it was too many calories, not enough protein. That ratio Is like, a little bit off. Yeah. So do you think that ratio is a fair one for Yes, It's Like, quick, easy thing.
Peter: I, hadn't thought about that, but I think that's a pretty good framework if you just remember that, grams of protein times 10, and I, like, I think, I think mine, I think my ratio Is pretty good, somewhere between 150, 200- Not ratio. But my, like, like, bar for calories. Yeah. I think that that's pretty good.
Gary: Right. And then, like, how many of those can I eat? Hypothetically- Is one of,
Peter: one- ...
Gary: is one ...zero ... is one of those... It's like, say I'm doing a meal replacement, Is, that, like, it? I get one? You
Peter: should be- you should be You should be
Gary: lunch. but let's say I'm not, or let's say it's a snack, right? Before, maybe a mid-morning snack for some people. Maybe they don't, they, they want, or they're trying to get their protein. Yeah. Is, like, one a day, like, basically "Hey," like, you shouldn't be doing more than one a day?
Peter: I try very hard. I think, I think a habit like- eating a protein bar? a day to what you're solution when possible- Mm-hmm ... for your life to get the amount of protein that you need, and use protein bars as an exception to the rule- Mm-hmm in times of
Gary: So two a day? I think I, Well, factoring in the real life, like most
Peter: Yeah, two a
Gary: like most people Two a
Peter: Yeah, because, because, one a day is a plan. I
Gary: think it's hard for a lot of people though. Like in sense that ...like, y- so you, you know, again, not always realistic Or attainable for people to meal prep and have like, readily available chicken in a dish that they just heat up
Peter: and eat- whenever they
Gary: whenever I
Peter: think that there's a plan. I think that, I think that the vast majority of people, with a correct plan figure out how to do those things. Maybe not right away, And maybe we leverage protein bars in the beginning, working towards the skill
Gary: of- What does it matter if I get 20 grams of protein from the bar versus- chicken? Like why can't I just get it from the bar? It's easier. It's faster. It tastes better. I don't have to cook it. I don't have to like heat it up. I, just get to like unwrap the thing and eat this delicious candy bar.
Peter: Yeah. Yeah,
Gary: yeah. Why would I not just default to that? You have to convince me that I, that somehow
Peter: you're wrong?
Gary: you're wrong ... somehow the chicken protein- ...is better than the bar protein.
Peter: it's not the chicken. What happens is when you get a real meal, um, like in whole foods, so if you ate your lunch that had the same amount of protein and also happened to have the vegetables that you eat with it at
Gary: Or rice.
Peter: Sometimes it's just total chicken. pasta. Yeah, yeah.
Gary: maybe on bread.
Peter: So, so that meal is probably like three to four times larger in volume and, like, phys- it takes up three to four times more space- Mm-hmm ...than if you were to put the protein bar side by side. And then you have to think about what that does to your stomach and your biology, so that now your real food is sitting in your it's keeping you full for way longer. with the same if not better macronutrient profile, so and so then therefore it has the side effect of making you less hungry later, to eat less overall. So the strategies that I work with people on, the reason why it's mostly whole food is because we're... And I didn't even know I was doing this, but we're basically mimicking what GLP-1s do to people currently. We're trying to keep food in your stomach for longer. Mm-hmm. We're trying to have them be low calorie density, high in nutrition, and we're trying to have the normal cycle of your body send hunger signals less to your brain more often. A protein bar is easily digestible. It's highly processed. It has the hero pr- h- the hero, like, macronutrient of protein, but it gets out of your system so rapidly that you're hungry very quickly. So, so the strategy of a protein bar. every day makes you eat far more often, whereas the real food comes with the fiber, it comes with the, the, with the you know, micronutrients, it comes with the correct macronutrients, and it'll sustain you for longer. So- I just... all of the above is why you should not be eating a protein bar every day as a
Gary: is they need to make a bigger protein bar. It would take up
Peter: They do. They make metrics. We already talked about
Gary: make they need to make it filled with like more
Peter: like,
Gary: air. airy. Yeah. yeah. yeah. But it's, like, volume-wise,
Peter: it was like a brick-
Gary: like a brick Like lettuce But like better.
Peter: Like, Like protein lettuce. Hey, Protein lettuce. that's a m- That's
Gary: protein
Peter: Can you imagine if you just saw, like, a 20 grams of protein slapped on, like,
Gary: a I'm sure it's not long. All
Peter: they do is- Iceberg lettuce ...
Gary: some powder on it Just like spray on it. Yeah, just spray some protein powder on there and like use Just a
Peter: Just a little, it's a little whey taste. That's
Gary: so gross. Uh, speaking of the
Peter: Hold on. Does that make sense?
Gary: makes sense. Does that make sense.
Peter: Does that justification- If you don't want the It's annoying ... it makes better
Gary: protein It tastes Uh- Okay. Just go, Uh, let's say, okay. we'll go tw- we'll go two a week, And those two, and I'm trying to pick out my bar. I got the calories. I got the macronutrient part. you totally explained that. Does it matter what kind of protein is in the Like, you know what I are the different types of protein that they put in bars? So- And should I be looking for a certain type of
Peter: So plant protein is not as bioavailable, which means for then therefore, 20 grams of plant milk protein, which is whey, which is in the standard in protein bars, the plant protein is not as available, so therefore you're not getting as many grams of protein as you say if you don't have, a dairy allergy or sensitivity, then whey protein always. And then if you're a vegan or you, whatever it is, whatever reasons that you need to have a plant protein, fine, but it
Gary: So if I have a plant protein, then I should probably have two bars. In order '
Peter: cause need more,
Gary: to... Yes, Okay. So now, now we're getting somewhere. Now I can have, like, two bars. Uh, okay. Very good, and then uh, "I guess the question is, do you eat them?
Peter: Mm-hmm. Yes, I
Gary: do. Hypocrite.
Peter: right? I know. I'm, I am highly aware
Gary: how often?
Peter: I am highly aware that I'm not perfect.
Gary: There was a stretch where I think it was almost every day, 'cause we have them in the office
Peter: it probably was never every day, but it definitely got to the point, and you called me out on it, where it was more consistent than what I'd like. I
Gary: called you out on it because you basically were eating my bars.
Peter: You were like, "Hey, asshole." save "I need these. This is my lunch." "Stop
Gary: You gotta save some for
Peter: me. Stop eating my lunch. Yeah, yeah, I, I went through a stretch.
Gary: how often now do you say you would have couple times a
Peter: lying to myself. A couple times But I, but every time I do it, I'm like, "Well, it's probably because I'm lazy because I didn't bring something down into this place with me." Yeah. when I could have walked down the hall and grabbed, like a yogurt or grabbed an apple or something
Gary: Like you just grabbed your chicken just now before we recorded. Yeah. So will you have one today? Okay, so the one that we have- here is Bearbel.
Peter: Those are not
Gary: So that " tastes candy bar?
Peter: if you come I mean, we might as-
Gary: how long until Bear Belle is, like, brought to court because their wrapper is wrong? Because there's no way that that protein bar can be what it says, 'cause the ratio... I forget the exact numbers. Let's look it up.
Peter: Ratio's not that good. I, I, I think that there's a lot better protein bars out Yeah. I, I, I think it's like w- we met the middle ground of cost and macros where we're just like, "Ah." Tastes, you know what I mean? It's g- it meets, like, kind of of the criteria why we would have them, but they're not, they're
Gary: they're not good. Let's Okay, and this, I'm just picking a random one. This one is the Bear Belle. This is Cookies & Caramel. Yeah. It's uh, 210 calories. Yeah. it's 20 grams of protein. So that's not bad. Mm-hmm. 20 times 10 is 200. This is 210- 210 ... so it's like 10 over that. Um- I get... 21 grams of carbs. So That defeats the thing. yeah. 20, 20 grams of protein, but 21 grams of car- But- yeah. so that's why but four grams of dietary fiber. Yeah. That can be good. Uh, s- seven grams of fat.
Peter: That's why. so so the 20 is okay. That, that should be closer to, like, 140 It's just there, there's just too much sugar And fat. Like, it's, it's
Gary: literally- If They got rid of...
Peter: might as well have... a Snickers. Can you please pull up a Snickers macronutrient profile? Can you just do that real quick? So I think a Snickers is, like, 230 calories. and I'm pretty sure it just has a bit more fat and a bit less
Gary: protein. No, so I'm happy, I'm fine to buy If you wanna buy a
Peter: Snickers- just Snickers
Gary: Okay, so Snickers is 250 calories. that's a bit more. It's 12 grams of fat. 32 grams of carbs. so-
Peter: so- So it's 11- ... so 11 more grams of carbs.
Gary: Five more
Peter: grams of fat.
Gary: And five, only five grams of
Peter: Yeah, so that's definitely way Yeah. So in, in all- in all of the ways- So
Gary: saying we can't get
Peter: We can't get that. That would be egregious. That is,
Gary: I thought I was this close
Peter: No ... No, that would be egregious, yeah.
Gary: Um, Okay, so I think on the... let's let's, let's Of the ones that I know. I'm I would say, like, the David bar is probably the best, and we- talked about that a little bit earlier.
Peter: that we should have.
Gary: I actually think Pure Protein bars are pretty good. Yeah, And they're very basic, you know?
Peter: They are, but they have... They're kind of like, the trash David bar. Like, they have-- They're very low in calories. They have a good amount of, protein, but they also have a lot of sugar alcohols, and if you have those consistently, you'll poop your
Gary: Yeah. what is it about those that does that?
Peter: Yeah. so it's... ah, I don't know the mechanism, but it." basically just makes
Gary: poop. It's pretty
Peter: Pretty common, it Makes you have diarrhea. sugar alcohols are not
Gary: are no good. All right, so the David bar. Oh, they have a gold line. Oh. And they have a bronze
Peter: Oh, God. I hate
Gary: those. I think the color of the packaging maybe. The gold line, traditional and macro-focused bars, and the bronze line is chocolate coated.
Peter: So the bronze line for losers- who wa- just want a Snickers.
Gary: They basically, they basically were like, " Okay, we're trying to sell this great one- Yeah and nobody's buying
Peter: buying them." Nobody's buying this shit.
Gary: Nobody's go, " How can we solve this? Oh, I know. Coat it." in chocolate."
Peter: That's weird. Weird might now be better. "
Gary: That's so great. Yeah. Okay,
Peter: so That's so
Gary: so the gold line- ...so this is why it's, like, so good, right? The, this is th-this is what a bar probably should look like. Yes. And I know David got accused
Peter: like
Gary: on their thing something to do with their calories. but, but, I think- ...most of that gone away. I don't know for
Peter: I don't either. Whatever.
Gary: 150 calories. And then it's 28 grams of protein.
Peter: yeah. So it has almost no fat and carbs.
Gary: and it has two grams of fat, 12 grams of carbs, no sugar, one dietary fiber, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you wanna go to the Bronze line, you get, uh, 150 calories still- so it's pretty low. But you're only getting 20 grams. still, you know, so if you do that math, you're still... It's still better than the- What's the carbs? ... than the Bear Belle.
Peter: the carbs. and fats?
Gary: for carbs. it just says low carbs.
Peter: the hell? That's relative.
Gary: What does that even mean? They can't do that. On the bronze, they're like, "Don't worry
Peter: it." It's just low carb.
Gary: It's just low carbs. They're " like, Don't-"
Peter: all that chocolate.
Gary: They're like, "Don't ask. Just have some chocolate." They're like, "It's cool. Let me, uh... Let's see if Oh, this is, like, not coming up. But yeah, basically like the good version, the Gold version, 28 grams of protein- Yeah, 150 calories. So do you think we should bar, start buying
Peter: that label is true, that's literally as good as you can get.
Gary: So you're basically poisoning your employees by buying, because You're being cheap. You're buying the Bear Belles- and you're poisoning all ... of
Peter: I'm poisoning
Gary: you don't wanna buy the David bars. What's your solution here?
Peter: I'm being a little too frugal. Well, I would say then we should, we should have- A little bit more ... of like a like, and again,
Gary: is- Some variety? Have, Like, have some David bars and some Bear Belles?
Peter: As, like, a A/B test, see which one gets eaten, um, the most?
Gary: Yeah, and then anybody who is eating the Bear Belles we fire. a- As not meeting our standards. Oh, we get a David Gold and a David bronze. just see. And Bear Belles and just see. Like, we go A, B, C test it. what happens. they go. Maybe we should encourage our employees to have- A little bit more better bars
Peter: Yeah. Yeah. And maybe maybe less than one a day. Maybe not as often as I would never tell somebody that. you can't, but I would encourage to have a little bit more whole food, especially you Stop eating fucking bars for
Gary: Should we bring some apples down here?
Peter: Yeah, but then... Yeah, It's a good idea, but then
Gary: that's- I would probably have an apple and the bar did that I do eat lunch. I eat it when I go home here. I have my bar, then I go to the gym, and then I go home and I have lunch. Yogurt's are kinda lame, unless it's filled with granola.
Peter: sprinkle in a few almonds.
Gary: No, you know why I hate almonds? Because you get... Like, I like the way they taste.
Peter: You only get
Gary: 10. You get like 10 of them. And it's, like, 100 and whatever calories.
Peter: a small, tiny, little doop.
Gary: It, I... So if I'm gonna get those calories Mm ...I'd much ha- rather have Less of this? Yeah.
Peter: Oh, I see what you're saying.
Gary: Like, if I'm gonna put something in my yogurt make crunchy- I would rather have the Granola -than the almonds for the same amount of calories.
Peter: Yeah. Processed food tastes It's
Gary: You need to buy into
Peter: this.
Gary: I'm gonna make you come around.
Peter: Yeah, who doesn't want
Gary: time. ...Eventually. It's so good. I was so close to getting Snickers as our, as our,
Peter: No you weren't
Gary: I was like, you almost, almost
Peter: said Bare
Gary: Snickers. We almost had Snickers as our default bar in the Yeah, that's just
Peter: a little too
Gary: That'd be great. Can you Uh, okay, so, so Da- so I would say, David, pure protein. Bare Bells are, like, starting to get down in the next echelon. Yeah. Probably the upper tier is like the two I mentioned. There's probably a couple others. I'm sorry if you make a protein bar that's, that's like, that, I just don't know what it is. Um, and then there's some, Like, there are some that are just like, it's just ridiculous. like I, I look at them in the store sometimes, I'll just pick them up- ...and it's like 300 calories ... getting, like, 10 grams of pro- you're basically buying a candy bar. But they're labeled,
Peter: labeled as protein ... but they're labeled, yeah, because, like, more people... Because what they're doing is, is they're getting the health-conscious people- as well. So they're being like, "Well, the Snickers takes up all of the people who don't give a shit, and then the protein bars are for people who are, like, trying to be
Gary: And like, they're in the aisle- ...so misleading. it's- 'Cause they're not in the candy
Peter: Yeah, and they're not,
Gary: Like, they're in, like, the healthy whatever protein bar
Peter: they're also not labeled as separately for, Like there's not, like, an energy like, a protein bar together. Yeah. And then you just grab one that looks good That's right. And so like for instance
Gary: feel like they should have some regulations around that. Like, they should actually say, like- if it doesn't meet a certain nutrient profile- Yeah.
Peter: it can't called a protein
Gary: bar ... then it can't be con-considered a protein bar, and it can't be in that section
Peter: the store. It has a separate
Gary: candies. Yeah, and I'm sure- It should be over the candy section
Peter: sure some stores have, like, their own version of that, but yeah, certainly,
Gary: they just wanna sell shit. like, I could just take a Snickers bar going back to our Snickers example, and I could put all the Snickers in the protein Bar section- and be like, "It has protein in it." It's, it's actually- not a whole lot worse than that one right there, or whatever that one is ...
Peter: Sni- Snickers, is basically a pretty good energy
Gary: Like what is a Clif Bar? We haven't
Peter: the- So a Clif Bar is mostly... It's probably clo- Mostly carbs, It's mostly carbs and fat with very little, like it's like... the protein is the least of all of the macronutrients Yeah. and Clif Bar is the best example of like-
Gary: a Clif bar ... To pro- average protein and carbs. It's 250 calories. Yeah. like five to seven grams of fat. Yeah. 40 to 43 grams of carbs. Yeah. And nine to 11 grams of protein, 16 to 21 grams of sugar.
Peter: Yeah, So so a Clif Bar is used in the same way that I would use, like, a Gatorade. Mm. Or just a more extreme version of
Gary: I in their defense, I believe they describe it as, like an energy bar. However- gro- grocery stores put it in the same section ...like all the other ones, so it can be very
Peter: Yeah. and the general public just doesn't, like, gen- on average, the general public doesn't know enough- to differentiate. Yeah. And so you're just grabbing whatever the hell 'cause you're hungry, and it's also like a little puck, and it's so dense. Talk about not making you full- right for like, way too many calories.
Gary: And I think RX Bars can be misleading 'cause they did a great job of branding that. "Oh, three
Peter: even though it's Just- three ingredients."
Gary: Yeah. But it-- the, the ratio isn't quite there. It's It's a lot of like... 'Cause there's dates- A Ton of fat and carbs. Yeah. It's dates in there There's a lot of sugar and carbs and
Peter: It's basically a, like a, a even healthier version of a
Gary: I believe the person who founded that company- Mm ... like sold that company, and then he started David. interesting. He's just, like a protein bar, like-
Peter: Guru ... Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Know, he knows how to market.
Gary: Um, okay. Very good. So I'm I'm actually hungry right now. I'm gonna be leaving, so I'm definitely getting a bar.
Peter: There's, no bars in there.
Gary: Oh, there is. I have a secret stash.
Peter: Oh, you, do? Yeah. Oh, you asshole.
Gary: Yeah, me. and Christina- a secret stash of protein bars because the people around
Peter: here- Yeah, eat too much of
Gary: go through them so quick. I think some people have multiple a
Peter: Yeah, it's not good. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta-
Gary: Pounding these They, they, kibosh on it ...I don't think they fully understand these are actually meant for me. Yeah. Let me put a little sign
Peter: Tell them right now. You know, Everybody. Bars are only for Gary.
Gary: are for me. Well, they, what they don't know is that there's a secret stash, and so they don't- can't
Peter: I guess that's one way
Gary: you you now know, so I'll show
Peter: Don't Don't show me. I don't wanna
Gary: Anyway, don't be late next week when we- Tuesdays at 11. well,
Peter: we'll see if I can implement the, uh- recommendation you made.
Gary: Don't be late. All right. Until next time.
Peter: Again Three minutes?
Gary: of our last show, we talked about how you were gonna be late 'cause you had to go pee.
Peter: I was late
Gary: And you were right on time. It was pretty good. You did send a text in there or two. Do you ever, have you ever thought about what goes on in a day- you and I? It
Peter: It is unbelievable. It is very distracting.
Gary: like, there's a lot of things happening All of the time. All the time. Yeah. The fact that we squeeze in a podcast Is
Peter: Is
Gary: pretty- It's remarkable ... Yeah,
Peter: is- Yes. Yeah, these days that we have to focus and dial in- Mm-hmm ... is so im- im- incredibly important- Yeah ... for my stupid mind.
Gary: Even then when I go home and plug these things in, these cards, they download for hours in the background. Like there's always
Peter: Is it still two hours?
Gary: Well, 'cause I haven't changed the- Oh I have to change the computer at some point. yeah, yeah. yeah. It is a little bit better though with the new, uh... I got some new, new, uh, cards. Yeah.
Peter: Are they a little faster?
Gary: but they're still limited by the port a little bit, but they're a little bit better. But whatever. Anyway, interesting. Just a normal day
Peter: Fascinating. It is a lot.
Gary: like run from one thing to the next,
Peter: it's fun, but it's a lot.
Gary: It's like tiring. At the end of the day,
Peter: It's ...just like the, ...the, amount that your brain has like, "
Gary: eh. Yeah. There's a lot going on. So anyway, that being said, one of the reasons I bring that up is because in most of the days I often, um, I don't eat a lot when I'm here.
Peter: So- you have lunch? No, sometimes.
Gary: even have lunch here. Yeah. I typically have a banana. And then I have a protein bar, and then I'll go home, and then I'll eat
Peter: I get home. Why did you stop eating lunch here?
Gary: lunch. Um, because it just, because my days kind of end, like somewhere near closest to lunch and just feel like, more of a pain in the ass- to eat here. So I just started doing it at home But then I was like, "Well, I'm just gonna have a protein bar- Mm every day," which brings up today's
Peter: That's a mistake.
Gary: I actually forgot... I meant to bring one. I'll have to look it up on my phone. Yeah. Um, I wanna talk about protein bars. Because-
Peter: Oh, that's such a rabbit hole. 'Cause they are- That's a good
Gary: That's a good one ...as ubiquitous a word. Yeah. Kind of meaning everywhere. Everywhere- That's thing,
Peter: thing, right? Ubi- correct.
Gary: So they're essentially ubiquitous. You see them everywhere. can get them at gas stations. You can get them at like Walmart and Target. Mm. You grocery stores. You get them everywhere. They're clearly... There's a new brand coming out single day.
Peter: It's just so much money in protein
Gary: There's a ton of marketing around them. Um, you know, billion or trillion dollar industry at this point. So yeah. Pretty much everybody eats them. Yeah. You know, most people have them. I think many people feel as though they're healthy.
Peter: Yeah. that's the reason why- a billion-dollar industry.
Gary: I think a lot of people will use them, uh, probably more than they should.
Peter: them as meal substitutes.
Gary: Yeah. Uh,
Peter: Yeah. you.
Gary: so I guess what I wanted to go down, what I wanted, uh, to talk about a little bit- is like, protein bars in general, your thoughts on protein bars, what they should be used for, what they shouldn't be used for. Um, I actually have a like a funny story, I've repeated this story. You've heard it a million times as I've... our friends or whatever, but like when You were my And I was sit- we were both sitting at, like, " a Uh, like, um, in an office, like, I
Peter: years ago, ...
Gary: yeah, I was at my desk. You were at your desk, and I was like, I was in the process of attempting to like, start losing weight. trying to eat better. Mm-hmm. My version of that was, was not ideal, but part of this was, like, oh, um, instead of having like um, I forget what my morning snack would have, would have normally been, probably like a Snickers or something, but like, it was- Pretzels and candy ... it was pretzels and candy. had a candy drawer- up. ...right next to you. You, you don't have to, like,
Peter: had an insane...
Gary: I was like, okay, I need, like, a- m- ...I need, like, a healthy morning snack- get me to lunchtime, at which point I'll go get Subway. But Whatever.
Peter: On wheat bread. But
Gary: so, so my morning snack w- was a CLIF Bar. Yes. And so I'm sitting there eating a Clif Bar, 'cause in my head it's like a protein bar or whatever, like a healthy- It's a healthy bar ... like a bar, right? 'Cause I don't know what, at the time I was like, "I don't know and you literally just like you looked at me. I felt like, I felt like, you turn your head And you're like, "Hey." And I was like "What?" You go, "Are you climbing a mountain later, And I, And I was like, "No." And he goes, "Why are you eating that bar?" He goes, "It's literally named, like, Clif Bar. It's meant for people- ...who are about to, like, go on, like you know, climb a mountain. You're burning a ton of calories, and you need something like to get your glycogen up."
Peter: is of a guy,
Gary: a climbing. It's a- guy hanging from a cliff, Yeah. He's like? "It's kinda meant for those." Literally. like, "If you're eating that as like your snack- Yeah ... ...that's probably not what it was meant for." at all. Yeah.
Peter: you remember That Yes, I rem- I remember that very clearly. you, just... 'Cause,
Gary: They were so good too. I'd get
Peter: the bottom. Yes, they're so tasty. good. I was aware of your, like attempt at like, Yeah ... trying to lose weight at that time. so I was-
Gary: was your way of telling
Peter: I, ha- I, Yeah. I It was It'd be unethical- I-
Gary: you, proceeded to grab it out of my hands. And you started reading the ingredients, the calories, the, like whatever. and I was like, Oh, okay, I guess I'm not eating those anymore." And then I think I tried to switch to some other bar- Yeah ... at which like the next day or a, couple days later, at which point you ripped that out of my hands. And were " like, "Nope, Better, but, but still pretty
Peter: still pretty shitty, yeah.
Gary: And so then, so then that sort of brings up my thing, So I think there's different bars for different
Peter: Totally. But, but the general public doesn't know. They just see protein
Gary: and they look for the one that they like or might, maybe that tastes the best.
Peter: Or they look for the one, like- when first what does it look like? does it look like? That looks cool. taste good? Oh, that's man.
Gary: And so I think maybe let's talk a little bit real quick about like okay, the different types of bars that exist. Neither of us are experts on bars, but I just gave an example. Mm-hmm. There's the bar for, like, the athlete.
Peter: Yeah.
Gary: Right? Like, the person who is about to burn a ton of calories. Mm-hmm. So I think those are, like the Clif bars- Mm-hmm ... would be, like, one. They probably have like a, a healthier one also. But normal Yeah ...Clif Bar- one that's been around forever, is kinda like that. I think there are some, like there's some, like Gatorade, like, uh, maybe a Gatorade or, like, a company, like a, like a nutrition, like, Optimum Nutrition, like pro- like a, the Whey Nutri- like, the ones that are meant for like, mass gaining. Like, they're literally, like calorie. RX
Peter: bar. No, not, not RX. Um,
Gary: Met-Rx. Met-Rx
Peter: Met-Rx. Met-Rx.
Gary: Yeah. That's
Peter: Those are like the meal replacement They're, like, 350 calories
Gary: so So those are not somebody who's like just trying to, like, have, like- uh, like a a snack or something- ...that's like, you know, or they're trying to get, like, a protein trying to add
Peter: No, that has intentionally a lot of fat- lot of carbs, and a lot of protein. Okay.
Gary: So those are two that I can think of, like off the top of my head that are kinda meant for, like the athlete.
Peter: They're
Gary: meant- Right
Peter: they're meant- they a specific
Gary: yeah, like gain or Right? Um, then we have like The, bars that. are, that are geared towards, um, protein. Mm-hmm. Right? For
Peter: specifically for protein. Yeah.
Gary: Um, and I... f- when I think of those, I think of maybe, like, the David bar.
Peter: Mm-hmm. Well, David bar is the best example because it has the best macronutrient profile, meaning it has the most amount of protein and the least amount of fat and carbs of all of those styles of bars.
Gary: And then I think there's kinda like meal replacement bars.
Peter: I think we just said that. The meal... Like, The Metrics
Gary: you think those are, like, meal re- I think there's others that are, like- almost meant... I think they're made by companies, maybe like Weight Watchers or some of those people that actually design like, a, a bar that's, like, meant to be- Yeah, uh ...considered, like, a meal
Peter: My thought is if it has like, 300-plus calories, It's Yeah. It's like, intentionally designed to have,
Gary: calories, Wait, does your meals only have 300 calories? Well, problem number one. Right. I guess I need more. I need a bar that has 1,000 calories.
Peter: my God. The, yeah, they make powders for that.
Gary: Uh, yeah, powders probably fall into this category. Okay. so I, I think of, like- so I guess in my categories, I don't, you " know, I don't have like an official, I don't know, maybe in the business there's an official category list, but there's sort of I think there's- Mm ... like sort of, the athletic ones or whatever. There's the protein ones- meal
Peter: ones. Yeah, I think those are the, generally th- the three categories. three categories There's three genres, yeah?
Gary: I think for most people, right, like let, let's, let's kinda remove, like the athletes, let's remove, um, just like meal replacement. I think most people do it- Yeah ... for the actual protein. That's why they're called protein bars.
Peter: think the average
Gary: in today's- .........is
Peter: to get a healthy protein bar. Right. I think that's the average
Gary: and with the focus, as we talked about on a prior episode, of like there's protein everywhere, it's being marketed to everybody, People need more protein,
Peter: We're gonna give it to them It's labeled on chips.
Gary: It's labeled in shops. Right, it's labeled everywhere, so we talked about that. But I think with the bars in particular, I think most people in, in current times are seeking these bars out to get the protein. Mm-hmm. Right? But that's a way It's a So it's a way to supplement protein because most people aren't getting enough through
Peter: food I think the decision-making is real easy. Protein equals healthy. Protein bar equals health. like that's just, that's it. It's like I want a healthy choice. I'm trying to be good. Let me grab a protein
Gary: bar. Okay. so say you were picking up a bar. Right? So say they were just Let's ignore the brands for right now. You're just picking up a bar, it's like a blank label. except for the back where it has, like, nutritional value on it- or, or whatever. Yeah. What does Peter- like, look for when he turns it over to say, "Am I even going to consume this thing?" Mm. I'm really hungry, but I'm not willing to, sacrifice all of, like, my hard work." Um, what i- what should, should... What do you look for, and what should people look for on the back of that label- Mm to know whether or not
Peter: average person?
Gary: Yeah, just... Well, the person who's looking for a protein bar. Okay. But doesn't want to, like, you know, You don't, uh, we're not looking to like gain weight. you know, like, you're not the Yeah ......the athlete trying to gain weight. not the person going to climb a mountain. I'm just the average person. maybe it's even a little bit of a meal replacement- Mm ... but wanna get my protein up throughout the day. What am I looking for on the back of the label to know that this thing is, uh, is okay to eat?
Peter: Yeah, and you can't know unless you You've no, you have no
Gary: Yeah,
Peter: I mean,
Gary: can't- to the branding the
Peter: the branding on the front You can't learn, the branding- doesn't mean shit. Right, right, right. It's just, it's literally by, like the sales and marketing team. Right. How can I get somebody most likely to buy this product? Right. Like so that just tells you nothing. So, so you have to look at the labels, which means you have to be able to read labels. Really the only, the only three things that you... Well, four things. You say, "Okay, how many calories does it have?" And You go, "Well, what are my macronutrients?" ' Cause it could be 200 calories, and it could be what is essentially an energy bar. It could be mostly carbs, and then that's a different thing. So then, but it could be labeled as a protein bar. Like, they use protein on the thing because it's like people want it
Gary: Right.
Peter: So you look at the calories. If it's above 200, probably a bad choice. You generally want, for the regular person, you want your protein bar to be somewhere between 150, 200 So you do that first, and then you look at the macros and you go, "Okay, well, what's the highest one?" If protein's not the highest one, throw it, move on immediately.
Gary: Macros being what?
Peter: Protein, carbs, and
Gary: fats. Proteins, carbs, and fats. So the protein should be the highest of those
Peter: by, like by
Gary: meaning that most of the calories in the bar are coming from the protein.
Peter: Correct. Yeah. and so it's, like real simple math. Especially when you're talking about that calorie range, 150 to 200. If you're no... If you're not... like I'd say if you're under two, like 20 cal- like 20 grams of protein- then you should throw it away. Because then w- way more than is necessary is coming from carbs and fats, which is again, more of a mini meal replacement bar- Yeah ... than it is a protein
Gary: Because the carb... Well, especially the fats, the fats are gonna be a little bit more
Peter: fabs make it more dense.
Gary: uh, it will make if it... say it was really high in, like, the fat in terms of meal replacement. would that make it a more effective meal replacement bar in the sense that it will make me feel less hungry because the fat is, like,
Peter: F- fat doesn't do a great job of making you feel less hungry. It's a very... It's, it's okay. I wouldn't put it up there as like, like eat more fat to be more full. I don't think that's a good strategy. but it when I think of a meal replacement bar, I think of an equal distribution of fats, carbs, and proteins- to get like, like to mimic a, a healthy, like, whole food meal.
Gary: Versus a protein bar, which would be- towards the
Peter: is you're try-- like, boy, that protein should be, like, 10 times higher than the other
Gary: I know, uh, my wife, Jessica, has this ratio- Mm ... that she does, which is essentially kind of what you had just said without saying the actual ratio. And I think she heard this on a podcast or on an Instagram or something somewhere, but, but it seems to be, like, in line with what you were saying. Which basically takes the number of, of protein- Yeah ... multiplies it by 10. And the calories, so say it's 20 grams- Yeah ... of, protein times 10, your calories, should fall right around that number. So 200, in this case it? would be 200. 20 grams of protein times 10, you know, whatever. So if you had a bar that, only had 14 grams of protein- then the calories should be around 140,
Peter: Which those bars are rare. Usually if a bar has 15 grams of protein. it has more carbs or more And usually they'll do more carbs because it.
Gary: in it. So in that scenario, let's say it had 15 grams. But the bar itself was 200 calories. Mm-hmm. That's a bar, like, that she would not buy. Because it was too many calories, not enough protein. That ratio Is like, a little bit off. Yeah. So do you think that ratio is a fair one for Yes, It's Like, quick, easy thing.
Peter: I, hadn't thought about that, but I think that's a pretty good framework if you just remember that, grams of protein times 10, and I, like, I think, I think mine, I think my ratio Is pretty good, somewhere between 150, 200- Not ratio. But my, like, like, bar for calories. Yeah. I think that that's pretty good.
Gary: Right. And then, like, how many of those can I eat? Hypothetically- Is one of,
Peter: one- ...
Gary: is one ...zero ... is one of those... It's like, say I'm doing a meal replacement, Is, that, like, it? I get one? You
Peter: should be- you should be You should be
Gary: lunch. but let's say I'm not, or let's say it's a snack, right? Before, maybe a mid-morning snack for some people. Maybe they don't, they, they want, or they're trying to get their protein. Yeah. Is, like, one a day, like, basically "Hey," like, you shouldn't be doing more than one a day?
Peter: I try very hard. I think, I think a habit like- eating a protein bar? a day to what you're solution when possible- Mm-hmm ... for your life to get the amount of protein that you need, and use protein bars as an exception to the rule- Mm-hmm in times of
Gary: So two a day? I think I, Well, factoring in the real life, like most
Peter: Yeah, two a
Gary: like most people Two a
Peter: Yeah, because, because, one a day is a plan. I
Gary: think it's hard for a lot of people though. Like in sense that ...like, y- so you, you know, again, not always realistic Or attainable for people to meal prep and have like, readily available chicken in a dish that they just heat up
Peter: and eat- whenever they
Gary: whenever I
Peter: think that there's a plan. I think that, I think that the vast majority of people, with a correct plan figure out how to do those things. Maybe not right away, And maybe we leverage protein bars in the beginning, working towards the skill
Gary: of- What does it matter if I get 20 grams of protein from the bar versus- chicken? Like why can't I just get it from the bar? It's easier. It's faster. It tastes better. I don't have to cook it. I don't have to like heat it up. I, just get to like unwrap the thing and eat this delicious candy bar.
Peter: Yeah. Yeah,
Gary: yeah. Why would I not just default to that? You have to convince me that I, that somehow
Peter: you're wrong?
Gary: you're wrong ... somehow the chicken protein- ...is better than the bar protein.
Peter: it's not the chicken. What happens is when you get a real meal, um, like in whole foods, so if you ate your lunch that had the same amount of protein and also happened to have the vegetables that you eat with it at
Gary: Or rice.
Peter: Sometimes it's just total chicken. pasta. Yeah, yeah.
Gary: maybe on bread.
Peter: So, so that meal is probably like three to four times larger in volume and, like, phys- it takes up three to four times more space- Mm-hmm ...than if you were to put the protein bar side by side. And then you have to think about what that does to your stomach and your biology, so that now your real food is sitting in your it's keeping you full for way longer. with the same if not better macronutrient profile, so and so then therefore it has the side effect of making you less hungry later, to eat less overall. So the strategies that I work with people on, the reason why it's mostly whole food is because we're... And I didn't even know I was doing this, but we're basically mimicking what GLP-1s do to people currently. We're trying to keep food in your stomach for longer. Mm-hmm. We're trying to have them be low calorie density, high in nutrition, and we're trying to have the normal cycle of your body send hunger signals less to your brain more often. A protein bar is easily digestible. It's highly processed. It has the hero pr- h- the hero, like, macronutrient of protein, but it gets out of your system so rapidly that you're hungry very quickly. So, so the strategy of a protein bar. every day makes you eat far more often, whereas the real food comes with the fiber, it comes with the, the, with the you know, micronutrients, it comes with the correct macronutrients, and it'll sustain you for longer. So- I just... all of the above is why you should not be eating a protein bar every day as a
Gary: is they need to make a bigger protein bar. It would take up
Peter: They do. They make metrics. We already talked about
Gary: make they need to make it filled with like more
Peter: like,
Gary: air. airy. Yeah. yeah. yeah. But it's, like, volume-wise,
Peter: it was like a brick-
Gary: like a brick Like lettuce But like better.
Peter: Like, Like protein lettuce. Hey, Protein lettuce. that's a m- That's
Gary: protein
Peter: Can you imagine if you just saw, like, a 20 grams of protein slapped on, like,
Gary: a I'm sure it's not long. All
Peter: they do is- Iceberg lettuce ...
Gary: some powder on it Just like spray on it. Yeah, just spray some protein powder on there and like use Just a
Peter: Just a little, it's a little whey taste. That's
Gary: so gross. Uh, speaking of the
Peter: Hold on. Does that make sense?
Gary: makes sense. Does that make sense.
Peter: Does that justification- If you don't want the It's annoying ... it makes better
Gary: protein It tastes Uh- Okay. Just go, Uh, let's say, okay. we'll go tw- we'll go two a week, And those two, and I'm trying to pick out my bar. I got the calories. I got the macronutrient part. you totally explained that. Does it matter what kind of protein is in the Like, you know what I are the different types of protein that they put in bars? So- And should I be looking for a certain type of
Peter: So plant protein is not as bioavailable, which means for then therefore, 20 grams of plant milk protein, which is whey, which is in the standard in protein bars, the plant protein is not as available, so therefore you're not getting as many grams of protein as you say if you don't have, a dairy allergy or sensitivity, then whey protein always. And then if you're a vegan or you, whatever it is, whatever reasons that you need to have a plant protein, fine, but it
Gary: So if I have a plant protein, then I should probably have two bars. In order '
Peter: cause need more,
Gary: to... Yes, Okay. So now, now we're getting somewhere. Now I can have, like, two bars. Uh, okay. Very good, and then uh, "I guess the question is, do you eat them?
Peter: Mm-hmm. Yes, I
Gary: do. Hypocrite.
Peter: right? I know. I'm, I am highly aware
Gary: how often?
Peter: I am highly aware that I'm not perfect.
Gary: There was a stretch where I think it was almost every day, 'cause we have them in the office
Peter: it probably was never every day, but it definitely got to the point, and you called me out on it, where it was more consistent than what I'd like. I
Gary: called you out on it because you basically were eating my bars.
Peter: You were like, "Hey, asshole." save "I need these. This is my lunch." "Stop
Gary: You gotta save some for
Peter: me. Stop eating my lunch. Yeah, yeah, I, I went through a stretch.
Gary: how often now do you say you would have couple times a
Peter: lying to myself. A couple times But I, but every time I do it, I'm like, "Well, it's probably because I'm lazy because I didn't bring something down into this place with me." Yeah. when I could have walked down the hall and grabbed, like a yogurt or grabbed an apple or something
Gary: Like you just grabbed your chicken just now before we recorded. Yeah. So will you have one today? Okay, so the one that we have- here is Bearbel.
Peter: Those are not
Gary: So that " tastes candy bar?
Peter: if you come I mean, we might as-
Gary: how long until Bear Belle is, like, brought to court because their wrapper is wrong? Because there's no way that that protein bar can be what it says, 'cause the ratio... I forget the exact numbers. Let's look it up.
Peter: Ratio's not that good. I, I, I think that there's a lot better protein bars out Yeah. I, I, I think it's like w- we met the middle ground of cost and macros where we're just like, "Ah." Tastes, you know what I mean? It's g- it meets, like, kind of of the criteria why we would have them, but they're not, they're
Gary: they're not good. Let's Okay, and this, I'm just picking a random one. This one is the Bear Belle. This is Cookies & Caramel. Yeah. It's uh, 210 calories. Yeah. it's 20 grams of protein. So that's not bad. Mm-hmm. 20 times 10 is 200. This is 210- 210 ... so it's like 10 over that. Um- I get... 21 grams of carbs. So That defeats the thing. yeah. 20, 20 grams of protein, but 21 grams of car- But- yeah. so that's why but four grams of dietary fiber. Yeah. That can be good. Uh, s- seven grams of fat.
Peter: That's why. so so the 20 is okay. That, that should be closer to, like, 140 It's just there, there's just too much sugar And fat. Like, it's, it's
Gary: literally- If They got rid of...
Peter: might as well have... a Snickers. Can you please pull up a Snickers macronutrient profile? Can you just do that real quick? So I think a Snickers is, like, 230 calories. and I'm pretty sure it just has a bit more fat and a bit less
Gary: protein. No, so I'm happy, I'm fine to buy If you wanna buy a
Peter: Snickers- just Snickers
Gary: Okay, so Snickers is 250 calories. that's a bit more. It's 12 grams of fat. 32 grams of carbs. so-
Peter: so- So it's 11- ... so 11 more grams of carbs.
Gary: Five more
Peter: grams of fat.
Gary: And five, only five grams of
Peter: Yeah, so that's definitely way Yeah. So in, in all- in all of the ways- So
Gary: saying we can't get
Peter: We can't get that. That would be egregious. That is,
Gary: I thought I was this close
Peter: No ... No, that would be egregious, yeah.
Gary: Um, Okay, so I think on the... let's let's, let's Of the ones that I know. I'm I would say, like, the David bar is probably the best, and we- talked about that a little bit earlier.
Peter: that we should have.
Gary: I actually think Pure Protein bars are pretty good. Yeah, And they're very basic, you know?
Peter: They are, but they have... They're kind of like, the trash David bar. Like, they have-- They're very low in calories. They have a good amount of, protein, but they also have a lot of sugar alcohols, and if you have those consistently, you'll poop your
Gary: Yeah. what is it about those that does that?
Peter: Yeah. so it's... ah, I don't know the mechanism, but it." basically just makes
Gary: poop. It's pretty
Peter: Pretty common, it Makes you have diarrhea. sugar alcohols are not
Gary: are no good. All right, so the David bar. Oh, they have a gold line. Oh. And they have a bronze
Peter: Oh, God. I hate
Gary: those. I think the color of the packaging maybe. The gold line, traditional and macro-focused bars, and the bronze line is chocolate coated.
Peter: So the bronze line for losers- who wa- just want a Snickers.
Gary: They basically, they basically were like, " Okay, we're trying to sell this great one- Yeah and nobody's buying
Peter: buying them." Nobody's buying this shit.
Gary: Nobody's go, " How can we solve this? Oh, I know. Coat it." in chocolate."
Peter: That's weird. Weird might now be better. "
Gary: That's so great. Yeah. Okay,
Peter: so That's so
Gary: so the gold line- ...so this is why it's, like, so good, right? The, this is th-this is what a bar probably should look like. Yes. And I know David got accused
Peter: like
Gary: on their thing something to do with their calories. but, but, I think- ...most of that gone away. I don't know for
Peter: I don't either. Whatever.
Gary: 150 calories. And then it's 28 grams of protein.
Peter: yeah. So it has almost no fat and carbs.
Gary: and it has two grams of fat, 12 grams of carbs, no sugar, one dietary fiber, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you wanna go to the Bronze line, you get, uh, 150 calories still- so it's pretty low. But you're only getting 20 grams. still, you know, so if you do that math, you're still... It's still better than the- What's the carbs? ... than the Bear Belle.
Peter: the carbs. and fats?
Gary: for carbs. it just says low carbs.
Peter: the hell? That's relative.
Gary: What does that even mean? They can't do that. On the bronze, they're like, "Don't worry
Peter: it." It's just low carb.
Gary: It's just low carbs. They're " like, Don't-"
Peter: all that chocolate.
Gary: They're like, "Don't ask. Just have some chocolate." They're like, "It's cool. Let me, uh... Let's see if Oh, this is, like, not coming up. But yeah, basically like the good version, the Gold version, 28 grams of protein- Yeah, 150 calories. So do you think we should bar, start buying
Peter: that label is true, that's literally as good as you can get.
Gary: So you're basically poisoning your employees by buying, because You're being cheap. You're buying the Bear Belles- and you're poisoning all ... of
Peter: I'm poisoning
Gary: you don't wanna buy the David bars. What's your solution here?
Peter: I'm being a little too frugal. Well, I would say then we should, we should have- A little bit more ... of like a like, and again,
Gary: is- Some variety? Have, Like, have some David bars and some Bear Belles?
Peter: As, like, a A/B test, see which one gets eaten, um, the most?
Gary: Yeah, and then anybody who is eating the Bear Belles we fire. a- As not meeting our standards. Oh, we get a David Gold and a David bronze. just see. And Bear Belles and just see. Like, we go A, B, C test it. what happens. they go. Maybe we should encourage our employees to have- A little bit more better bars
Peter: Yeah. Yeah. And maybe maybe less than one a day. Maybe not as often as I would never tell somebody that. you can't, but I would encourage to have a little bit more whole food, especially you Stop eating fucking bars for
Gary: Should we bring some apples down here?
Peter: Yeah, but then... Yeah, It's a good idea, but then
Gary: that's- I would probably have an apple and the bar did that I do eat lunch. I eat it when I go home here. I have my bar, then I go to the gym, and then I go home and I have lunch. Yogurt's are kinda lame, unless it's filled with granola.
Peter: sprinkle in a few almonds.
Gary: No, you know why I hate almonds? Because you get... Like, I like the way they taste.
Peter: You only get
Gary: 10. You get like 10 of them. And it's, like, 100 and whatever calories.
Peter: a small, tiny, little doop.
Gary: It, I... So if I'm gonna get those calories Mm ...I'd much ha- rather have Less of this? Yeah.
Peter: Oh, I see what you're saying.
Gary: Like, if I'm gonna put something in my yogurt make crunchy- I would rather have the Granola -than the almonds for the same amount of calories.
Peter: Yeah. Processed food tastes It's
Gary: You need to buy into
Peter: this.
Gary: I'm gonna make you come around.
Peter: Yeah, who doesn't want
Gary: time. ...Eventually. It's so good. I was so close to getting Snickers as our, as our,
Peter: No you weren't
Gary: I was like, you almost, almost
Peter: said Bare
Gary: Snickers. We almost had Snickers as our default bar in the Yeah, that's just
Peter: a little too
Gary: That'd be great. Can you Uh, okay, so, so Da- so I would say, David, pure protein. Bare Bells are, like, starting to get down in the next echelon. Yeah. Probably the upper tier is like the two I mentioned. There's probably a couple others. I'm sorry if you make a protein bar that's, that's like, that, I just don't know what it is. Um, and then there's some, Like, there are some that are just like, it's just ridiculous. like I, I look at them in the store sometimes, I'll just pick them up- ...and it's like 300 calories ... getting, like, 10 grams of pro- you're basically buying a candy bar. But they're labeled,
Peter: labeled as protein ... but they're labeled, yeah, because, like, more people... Because what they're doing is, is they're getting the health-conscious people- as well. So they're being like, "Well, the Snickers takes up all of the people who don't give a shit, and then the protein bars are for people who are, like, trying to be
Gary: And like, they're in the aisle- ...so misleading. it's- 'Cause they're not in the candy
Peter: Yeah, and they're not,
Gary: Like, they're in, like, the healthy whatever protein bar
Peter: they're also not labeled as separately for, Like there's not, like, an energy like, a protein bar together. Yeah. And then you just grab one that looks good That's right. And so like for instance
Gary: feel like they should have some regulations around that. Like, they should actually say, like- if it doesn't meet a certain nutrient profile- Yeah.
Peter: it can't called a protein
Gary: bar ... then it can't be con-considered a protein bar, and it can't be in that section
Peter: the store. It has a separate
Gary: candies. Yeah, and I'm sure- It should be over the candy section
Peter: sure some stores have, like, their own version of that, but yeah, certainly,
Gary: they just wanna sell shit. like, I could just take a Snickers bar going back to our Snickers example, and I could put all the Snickers in the protein Bar section- and be like, "It has protein in it." It's, it's actually- not a whole lot worse than that one right there, or whatever that one is ...
Peter: Sni- Snickers, is basically a pretty good energy
Gary: Like what is a Clif Bar? We haven't
Peter: the- So a Clif Bar is mostly... It's probably clo- Mostly carbs, It's mostly carbs and fat with very little, like it's like... the protein is the least of all of the macronutrients Yeah. and Clif Bar is the best example of like-
Gary: a Clif bar ... To pro- average protein and carbs. It's 250 calories. Yeah. like five to seven grams of fat. Yeah. 40 to 43 grams of carbs. Yeah. And nine to 11 grams of protein, 16 to 21 grams of sugar.
Peter: Yeah, So so a Clif Bar is used in the same way that I would use, like, a Gatorade. Mm. Or just a more extreme version of
Gary: I in their defense, I believe they describe it as, like an energy bar. However- gro- grocery stores put it in the same section ...like all the other ones, so it can be very
Peter: Yeah. and the general public just doesn't, like, gen- on average, the general public doesn't know enough- to differentiate. Yeah. And so you're just grabbing whatever the hell 'cause you're hungry, and it's also like a little puck, and it's so dense. Talk about not making you full- right for like, way too many calories.
Gary: And I think RX Bars can be misleading 'cause they did a great job of branding that. "Oh, three
Peter: even though it's Just- three ingredients."
Gary: Yeah. But it-- the, the ratio isn't quite there. It's It's a lot of like... 'Cause there's dates- A Ton of fat and carbs. Yeah. It's dates in there There's a lot of sugar and carbs and
Peter: It's basically a, like a, a even healthier version of a
Gary: I believe the person who founded that company- Mm ... like sold that company, and then he started David. interesting. He's just, like a protein bar, like-
Peter: Guru ... Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Know, he knows how to market.
Gary: Um, okay. Very good. So I'm I'm actually hungry right now. I'm gonna be leaving, so I'm definitely getting a bar.
Peter: There's, no bars in there.
Gary: Oh, there is. I have a secret stash.
Peter: Oh, you, do? Yeah. Oh, you asshole.
Gary: Yeah, me. and Christina- a secret stash of protein bars because the people around
Peter: here- Yeah, eat too much of
Gary: go through them so quick. I think some people have multiple a
Peter: Yeah, it's not good. Yeah. Yeah. We gotta-
Gary: Pounding these They, they, kibosh on it ...I don't think they fully understand these are actually meant for me. Yeah. Let me put a little sign
Peter: Tell them right now. You know, Everybody. Bars are only for Gary.
Gary: are for me. Well, they, what they don't know is that there's a secret stash, and so they don't- can't
Peter: I guess that's one way
Gary: you you now know, so I'll show
Peter: Don't Don't show me. I don't wanna
Gary: Anyway, don't be late next week when we- Tuesdays at 11. well,
Peter: we'll see if I can implement the, uh- recommendation you made.
Gary: Don't be late. All right. Until next time.
