Episode Transcript: Ready, Aim, Swipe
LAURA STASSI
Online dating is a lot of work. Surely you’ve heard that. Surely, you’ve felt that way. It’s why many of us, when we’re sifting through the prospects, make knee-jerk reactions. Should we trust our gut? Or can being more a bit more thoughtful about the process lead to a better outcome?
Ready, Aim, Swipe! That’s coming up on this episode of Dating While Gray: The Grown-Up’s Guide to Love, Sex, and Relationships. I’m Laura Stassi.
A few years ago, a newcomer in my running group came up and introduced herself. Someone had told her about this podcast, and she wanted to tell me her experience with online dating. It’s a plot twist I’d never heard before … and haven’t heard since.
She told me that as soon as her divorce was final, she downloaded one app -- and connected with the first man who reached out. They met in real life and boom, they’ve been a committed couple ever since.
Wow. If only it were that streamlined for all of us! Because most online daters, even those who have found exactly what they’re looking for, have told me they have found the process to be A SLOG. I confess, that’s my attitude. And that’s after I’ve sweated over writing a catchy paragraph or two and curating my photos for a supposedly sure-fire profile.
Because I know, as soon as I post it, I need to implement a game plan for what comes next. Not only for how I’ll respond to anyone who reaches out … but also for being proactive and wading through the profiles to find people I want to reach out to.
It seems like every time I promise myself I’ll give dating apps more than a half-hearted try … I bail. Earlier this year, I shared some of my online frustrations with dating coach Damona Hoffman. We talked about her new book, F the Fairy Tale: Rewrite the Dating Myths and Live Your Love Story. Here’s the part of our conversation you haven’t heard yet.
DAMONA HOFFMAN
I tell a story in F the Fairy Tale about a client who she had, I think she had five deal breakers, maybe six identified in her dating app. And she was like, there are no matches here. And I'm like, no, no. Everybody says there's no matches. It's just, we haven't clarified the criteria. And then I logged in to her dating app and I was like, oh wow, she was totally serious. There are literally zero matches because she had filtered everybody out. We're always looking for red flags and deal breakers. What happens if we reframe that and we start looking for more green flags?
The reality is it's gonna be some days happily, some days frustratingly, some days, you know, it's a mixed bag, but that's life. What I want people to take away from F the Fairy Tale is that they get to choose their own dating adventure. They get to write their love story for themselves. I find it very empowering that we have so much possibility today in dating, that there are so many options.
LAURA STASSI
I have talked to other people like this and it's usually women, we will reach out to a man online and like ask a question to get a conversation going. But there have been so many times where they'll just come back with the answer. It won't be like, oh, blah, and how about you? And so I...sort of had a rule in my mind, I'll do that like a back and forth like maybe three times, probably just twice. But if they haven't picked up enough that they're supposed to want to get to know me too, I just feel like if it's this much trouble, how much trouble is it going to be to, you know, actually establish a relationship with someone?
DAMONA HOFFMAN
Yeah, you're right. I appreciate that you are willing to do a couple of follow ups, because there are a lot of folks that are like, oh, I'm not getting anything back, like just unmatch, delete. And sometimes, again, these are learned skills. And also texting, texting and messaging in the app to get to the date, that is a brand-new skill set. And I've only even been teaching it for about eight years in my practice, because I used to say texting is for information and not conversation in the early phase of dating.
I had to walk that back, Laura, because now if you can't text effectively, you're not getting to the date. So you must, must develop this skill of being able to message. And I do hear this a lot, as you said, particularly from women that feel like they're given out a lot, they're not getting a lot. So I have a little, tidbit, a little tip that you and your listeners can take away. When you are in that banter, comment plus question. Always end it on a question so that there's something for them to respond to, usually a question that requires more than a yes or no response. That alone will change the whole tone of the conversation, because I feel like we get into our expectations again of, like, all right, now he's supposed to lead. He's not doing the thing. And as someone who's been married to a dry texter, that's what they call him, dry texting. I've been with a dry texter for 20 years. This man is not gonna get any better at texting. He's really not. And that's okay, because he's a really great communicator in person. He's a really great listener. And texting is just not his medium. And it's not a lot of people's medium, but it's a part of the process now that has to be embraced to move into the other juicier parts of communication.
LAURA STASSI
So banter and question, respond, and then question again to keep it going. I mean, right?
DAMONA HOFFMAN
Right, but you're right that at a certain point if you're like, it's all one word answers and they're not then asking any questions back. My little trick with clients is I'll have them say, is there anything that you would like to know about me? Because this happens on dates too. And sometimes that's a trigger for the person to be like, oh, I've been talking about myself. I didn't ask anything about them. But honestly, if they don't pick up on that, then I’m sorry, thank you next.
LAURA STASSI
Exactly.
LAURA STASSI
That’s dating coach Damona Hoffman. She’s an advocate for widening our search parameters, and for being perhaps a bit more tolerant of those whose online communication skills might be lacking. Damona says if we’re too narrow in our search, and too quick to swipe left, we may be overlooking some quality matches.
Still, when it comes to online dating, many of us are striking out. Like this woman from the Dating 101 episode.
[EPISODE EXCERPT]
GLYN
My name is Glyn, and I am from Chapel Hill, N.C. I've been divorced about eight years. And I decided last summer that I would dip my toe into trying to date again. I've gotten coaching that's helped me understand how to curate the background, listen, to learn, ask open-ended questions so that maybe I come across better.
I've had a couple of men take pictures of themselves with their head on their pillow, and they're under their covers.
LAURA STASSI
Eww.
GLYN
And that's not -- that's not a good way to come across. And I've had a couple of other men where they're, they're obviously looking in a mirror to see how they look. But they're not looking at the background, so you can see a row of urinals.
LAURA STASSI
(Laughter)
GLYN: And you know, I kept wondering if someone had come in and started going to the bathroom, would they even notice? I had someone this weekend, contact me. And he was writing about how we could get cozy under a blanket and do whatever we felt like. And again, it just doesn't seem as if they've thought through how that would sound to somebody else.
LAURA STASSI
Have you had any relationships through online dating?
GLYN
Not one.
[EPISODE EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
I checked in with Glyn recently. She told me she’s trying something new … it’s called The Burned Haystack Dating Method.
I had to Google it … and I found an online piece written by the English professor who created this method. Her name is Jennie Young. She says when she went online at the age of 50, like Glynn, she was quote “horrified” by the onslaught of photos of men holding fish and taking bathroom selfies. Not her idea of quality matches.
What she was looking for …. That so-called needle in a haystack. Jennie did some research, and she learned that the best way to find an actual needle in an actual haystack is to set it on fire. Because hay will burn, but the metal needle will not.
Now that’s an image. And what that means for online dating, according to Jennie’s method, is to get very specific about who we engage with online. She says after she put her method in place, it took her only 5 days to find a special someone. They dated for two years. They broke up, but Jennie says they’re still friends. She has no regrets about any of it. And now she’s using the method again. She’s also teaching it to OTHER online romance seekers.
The method … has about 10 rules. One of them is to interact only with peole who send messages that are well-written, reference our profiles, and do something to extend the conversation.
Another rule? If after a week or two of communication but no meeting in real life, you block without any further interaction. Blocking means that person will no longer show up in your pool of matches. Thus, the dating site algorithm is forced to produce new options.
Jennie says her method ensures that even if we don’t find a long-lasting love connection, we’ll meet really nice dates and actually enjoy the online experience.
Now I suppose that once you learn the rules, online dating might be easier … though perhaps learning the rules might take more effort than I’ve given online dating overall. Jennie describes her approach as one that requires us to slow down even as we’re becoming more efficient. And of course, we need to be honest and also kind.
As for Glynn? She tells me she’s joined Jennie’s private Facebook group. And she’s off the dating sites while she’s learning how to master the method. Glynn says it’s been eye-opening to learn how a potential partner’s language says more than the words and messages they send. She also says she’s a huge proponent of quote, not wasting my time to meet with inappropriate matches,” end quote.
We wish you luck, Glynn … even as I’ve found someone who’s not really a fan of the method. HER name is Elly Klein, and she’s a dating coach in Australia. Elly has a show called “Your Dating Bestie Podcast” … and she did an entire episode where she’s reading a review she wrote of the Burned Haystack Dating Method. With Elly’s permission, I’m sharing an excerpt:
[PODCAST EXCERPT]
ELLY KLEIN
According to the Burned Haystack Dating Method, the equivalent of ‘burning the haystack’ when it comes to dating apps is blocking every man you’re not into. When you swipe left, they can reappear in your feed. But when you block, you’ll never see them again. This seems good in theory. It ensures you only ever view new men and don’t waste time reassessing the ones you’ve already ruled out based on their dating profile or text messages. The trouble is it doesn’t allow for human error — both yours and his.
You might have been feeling particular dismissive that day. Or you might have changed your mind about something over time and decided it’s no longer a deal breaker. Likewise, he might not have been at his best when he wrote that dating profile, posted those pictures or sent those messages. He might have been new to online dating. He might have just had his heart broken. Or he might have been on the rebound. But months or years later, he might have evolved. He might have learned a lot about how to present and conduct himself online. Or he might finally be ready for a meaningful relationship and have a completely different online dating vibe.
Unfortunately, you’ll never see these men on the dating app ever again because you blocked them. My husband, David, and I were on and off the same dating platform for years. It’s quite possible he attempted to connect with me years earlier and I overlooked him. Years earlier, when I was less experienced with dating and relationships, he wasn’t what I thought I wanted. Or maybe his dating profile wasn’t up to par for me at the time. If I’d blocked him, we never would have reconnected on that platform.
Now, imagine doing this for years. I know you want to meet your Mr Right yesterday, but the reality is it might take years. In that time, you’ll probably be in and out of short-term relationships. It takes time to get to know someone and see if they’re a long-term fit for you. But when you get back on the dating app, you’ve already blocked a lot of men in your local area who might be in a completely different place in their lives. But there’s no chance of connecting with them because you blocked them. ‘Ah, but I can un-block them’, I hear you say. Trust me, you won’t. It’s time-consuming and you probably made the right call with 80% of them. Do you really want to unblock hundreds of profiles in the hope of finding the 20% that deserve a second chance? That’s why it’s best to not block them in the first place. Sure, swipe left and move forward. But don’t block unless they’re truly disrespectful, narcissistic or just 100% not for you.
[PODCAST EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
That was dating coach Elly Klein, from Down Under. We’ll have link to that podcast episode on the Bonus Content page of Dating While Gray. We’ll also share a link to Jennie Young’s web piece explaining her method. You can decide for yourself whether it’s something you’d like to explore further.
Coming up … we’re talking to listeners about their swiping habits and how they’ve been working out. That’s after the break.
BREAK
LAURA STASSI
We’re back, with Dating While Gray: The Grown-Up’s Guide to Love, Sex, and Relationships. I’m Laura Stassi.
When I was doing research for this episode, I came across a survey that was commissioned by Forbes Health. In it, they talked to one-thousand Americans who’d used a dating app within the past year. This survey found that almost half of all respondents, regardless of age, are online because they’re looking for a serious long-term relationship.
And since I love a study with age breakdowns, I can tell you that it’s 47 percent of all boomers … also, 47 percent of all Gen X’ers, looking for a committed partner. Younger daters have slightly higher percentages – 49 percent of millennials, and 52 percent of the Gen Z’s.
The survey also found that overall, women spend about 52 minutes every day on the dating sites. Men spend 49 minutes a day.
Is all this time worth it? Doesn’t sound like it. Overwhelmingly, the survey participants say online dating has left them feeling burned out … and it’s usually because they can’t find who they’re looking for.
That reminds me of Karen, also from our Dating 101 podcast episode.
[EPISODE EXCERPT]
KAREN: I feel like they're not even paying attention, that they just hit the like button, honestly. Because if you read my full profile, which is three short paragraphs -- it's not that much to read. It says that, you know, you should live in San Luis Obispo; you should smile in your pictures; you know, you should be aware and interested in the world around you. And I just, you know, I get responses -- well, that just hit the like button and don't say anything, or their pictures are just really bad. Like I mentioned, you know, the selfies where they're not smiling and, or in the bathroom. I mean, all these things that you know, sites tell you not to do. It's like they haven't put any effort into it. So every once in a while, I'll get somebody. but I don't know, I don't get that many. I feel like I've hit a lot of likes, and I don't get a lot of reciprocal likes.
[EPISODE EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
In that episode, we called on two experts to evaluate Karen’s write-up and photos in her online dating profile. I checked in with her recently. She told me she’s happy, life is good. But she hasn’t been on the dating apps in almost a year, and she’s pretty much given up on them. She thinks the biggest problem is a very shallow dating pool where she lives.
Oh boy. I know the advice you got was solid, Karen. I’m sorry things haven’t worked out.
I confess that one of my big issues with online dating is, I have a really hard time discerning whether I want to get to know someone based on just looking at their photos and reading their profile. Maybe it’s a wiring issue with my brain and visualization, I don’t know. But my typical response is … when it doubt, toss him out. Not an especially effective strategy, clearly.
So I’m always impressed with people who don’t make rash judgments, even when they see something that gives them pause.
Like Julie, the dater we profiled in the episode “Long Leap to Love.” Remember Julie? She’d been on and off the dating sites for over two decades before striking romantic gold.
[EPISODE EXCERPT]
JULIE
We met on eHarmony, which is one of the sites I’ve tended to gravitate towards in the years to come. Match and eHarmony. Basically, although I’ve done them all: OKCupid, Plenty of Fish, all of them. I contacted him first. He was the executive that ran a private Catholic school, so then and I thought it was important to let them know, you know, I’m an atheist. So is that going to be a problem? So we kind of got some of those things out early.
LAURA STASSI
When you say you got things out early, was this before you even met? Or was this like part of the getting to know each other?
JULIE
Part of getting to know each other, I think, yeah, just in the first — I only exchange emails and texts for a couple of weeks at the most.
[EPISODE EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
Just think if Julie had automatically passed over this man because of that whole Catholic-atheist disconnect. I wanted to hear HIS views on this topic, so I reached out.
FRANK
Yeah, hi Laura, I’m Frank, and I live in Southern Oregon, and I've been here. I'm a transplant from New England. I spent my first 28 years in the great state of Rhode Island, and moved out to Oregon, and have been here for 35 years. Just recently retired from running a little prep school. I was a headmaster at a very nice little 160-year-old prep school here, here in Oregon. Unfortunately, I've lost my wife of 30 years, lung cancer a few years ago, after a pretty rough go of it. After kind of grieving and being lonely, I went out into the online dating community, met a wonderful woman.
LAURA STASSI
That's why I want to talk with you, because the woman who she ran across your profile on an online dating site, and she noticed that you were connected professionally with a religious organization.
FRANK
Yes. And it bears a little explanation. So a headmaster at a with the third oldest school of any kind in Oregon, which started life as a Catholic school with some Canadian nuns back in 1865 and yeah, Oregon had barely achieved statehood. And then when the Catholic Church finally got out here, and an archdiocese and that whole Catholic bureaucracy was established, the nuns turned it over, and it ran as a full on Catholic school until 1972, when there was just not a large enough Catholic population in our neck of the woods to sustain it, and the church was going to close it, and a local group of parents bargained with the church to run it as an independent school of 501 c3, separate corporation, and the church allowed them to use the campus for $1 a year, as long as the school maintained its name, kind of hold on to that Catholic tradition. Even if Catholics became a minority, which they are, they're down to less than they're about 15% of the school population. So it's kind of a strange Catholic school.
LAURA STASSI
Well, not strange, but I was gonna say it's just interesting, because there is a rich story, and online dating sometimes doesn't allow you to explain. So she saw you were the headmaster of a Catholic school, and she could have just swiped left, but she said she wanted you to know right off the bat that before things really got going, that she was an atheist, and she thought it was important for you to know that right away, given your what you were doing. So do you think it was important to know that right away?
FRANK
I kind of laughed when, chuckled when I saw that, because I'm quite a I was, I was raised, I'm an Italian guy from Providence, Rhode Island, which is a very Catholic place, and so I went through confirmation and did all that, you know. So I was a suitable character to run this school, which kind of has a Catholic light background. But personally, I'm a lapsed Catholic, and it really didn't matter to me. Most of my friends are atheists or non believers.
I'm not religious at all in any organized religion, but I'm willing to entertain that there might be something more going on in the universe on kind of like a philosophical, existential basis. Then, you know, some willing to withhold judgment. I was really happy that she shared those with me up front, and that I was able to share my own in return, and it wasn't that big of a hurdle for us.
LAURA Let's say she saw your profile and was like, Oh, great, I'm very devout. I'm evangelical. Would that have been something that you would have wanted to know right away?
FRANK
I hadn't considered that, that's an interesting scenario. If she were evangelical, I would have taken a polite pass on the relationship.
LAURA STASSI
Oh, you wouldn't have even wanted to get to know her.
FRANK
Maybe. I, you know, I'm a little particularly when you throw when you mention the evangelical Christian, there was like a huge community of Bible thumping evangelical Christians here that are predominantly very conservative and, in my opinion, a little hypocritical. You know, there's a big megachurch here with a lot of really nice SUVs and, you know, espresso shop to go to after service, and predominantly white. And so that might have been a bridge too far for me, and I certainly wouldn't want to lead anybody on and meet them even for coffee, if, because, yeah, that'd be a deal-breaker, actually.
LAURA STASSI
So looks wouldn't have swayed you. I mean, she’s a beautiful woman.
FRANK
She is a beautiful woman. Yeah, I'm actually very lucky, and I can't believe she's going out with some old guy like me.
LAURA STASSI
Yeah, but you know, you know we talked about it on the podcast before, where men, I mean, just speaking generally, men tend to be more visual than women, and so they want to have a physical connection before they get to know someone, where women could get to know someone. And I think, honestly, that's probably why Julie, she I'm sure she thought you were very attractive, but, oh my gosh, I think you should know I'm a, you know, I'm an atheist, where you might have been like, I don't care what you are cuz you're good-looking, but you're saying that's not true.
FRANK
No, it's not, you know. And I was coming from a place where I've been, I've been married twice. I got married after my sophomore year in college, and that marriage lasted about 13 years, and then was coming up on the 30th anniversary. So I've been a married guy for a long time, and I was really looking for companion. I know it sounds suspect when a guy says it, but I was looking for a really good -- I was looking for a really good companion.
I was very lonely at that point in my life, and it was a really pleasant surprise to fall in love and find romance, because I just didn't enter into it. You know, seeking somebody who was super attractive for a kind of passionate relationship. I was looking for a companion that I could share these years with.
ELLEN VOICE MAIL
LAURA STASSI
OK, is anyone else finally feeling a little tempted to give online dating another try … maybe by blocking to burn, maybe by taking a little more time before discarding potential matches … maybe with the goal of having a special someone to ring in the New Year with? Gosh, I can’t remember the last time I had a date for New Year’s Eve. How about you?
For a final bit of swiping inspiration, I’ll share this email from a listener. She told me she was opposed to online dating apps but quote, did it anyway … and is so glad she took that uncomfortable first step. She wound up meeting a man on Hinge who lives a mile away from her but someone she likely would have never met in person. He’s 54, she’s 60, they got married in June.
She writes, “I would not have connected with him just by his profile, but the app and its ‘prompts’ helped us connect and engage over a shared interest in a musical artist.”
Hinge, huh? That’s one I haven’t tried … yet.
END CREDITS
LAURA STASSI
Online dating is a lot of work. Surely you’ve heard that. Surely, you’ve felt that way. It’s why many of us, when we’re sifting through the prospects, make knee-jerk reactions. Should we trust our gut? Or can being more a bit more thoughtful about the process lead to a better outcome?
Ready, Aim, Swipe! That’s coming up on this episode of Dating While Gray: The Grown-Up’s Guide to Love, Sex, and Relationships. I’m Laura Stassi.
A few years ago, a newcomer in my running group came up and introduced herself. Someone had told her about this podcast, and she wanted to tell me her experience with online dating. It’s a plot twist I’d never heard before … and haven’t heard since.
She told me that as soon as her divorce was final, she downloaded one app -- and connected with the first man who reached out. They met in real life and boom, they’ve been a committed couple ever since.
Wow. If only it were that streamlined for all of us! Because most online daters, even those who have found exactly what they’re looking for, have told me they have found the process to be A SLOG. I confess, that’s my attitude. And that’s after I’ve sweated over writing a catchy paragraph or two and curating my photos for a supposedly sure-fire profile.
Because I know, as soon as I post it, I need to implement a game plan for what comes next. Not only for how I’ll respond to anyone who reaches out … but also for being proactive and wading through the profiles to find people I want to reach out to.
It seems like every time I promise myself I’ll give dating apps more than a half-hearted try … I bail. Earlier this year, I shared some of my online frustrations with dating coach Damona Hoffman. We talked about her new book, F the Fairy Tale: Rewrite the Dating Myths and Live Your Love Story. Here’s the part of our conversation you haven’t heard yet.
DAMONA HOFFMAN
I tell a story in F the Fairy Tale about a client who she had, I think she had five deal breakers, maybe six identified in her dating app. And she was like, there are no matches here. And I'm like, no, no. Everybody says there's no matches. It's just, we haven't clarified the criteria. And then I logged in to her dating app and I was like, oh wow, she was totally serious. There are literally zero matches because she had filtered everybody out. We're always looking for red flags and deal breakers. What happens if we reframe that and we start looking for more green flags?
The reality is it's gonna be some days happily, some days frustratingly, some days, you know, it's a mixed bag, but that's life. What I want people to take away from F the Fairy Tale is that they get to choose their own dating adventure. They get to write their love story for themselves. I find it very empowering that we have so much possibility today in dating, that there are so many options.
LAURA STASSI
I have talked to other people like this and it's usually women, we will reach out to a man online and like ask a question to get a conversation going. But there have been so many times where they'll just come back with the answer. It won't be like, oh, blah, and how about you? And so I...sort of had a rule in my mind, I'll do that like a back and forth like maybe three times, probably just twice. But if they haven't picked up enough that they're supposed to want to get to know me too, I just feel like if it's this much trouble, how much trouble is it going to be to, you know, actually establish a relationship with someone?
DAMONA HOFFMAN
Yeah, you're right. I appreciate that you are willing to do a couple of follow ups, because there are a lot of folks that are like, oh, I'm not getting anything back, like just unmatch, delete. And sometimes, again, these are learned skills. And also texting, texting and messaging in the app to get to the date, that is a brand-new skill set. And I've only even been teaching it for about eight years in my practice, because I used to say texting is for information and not conversation in the early phase of dating.
I had to walk that back, Laura, because now if you can't text effectively, you're not getting to the date. So you must, must develop this skill of being able to message. And I do hear this a lot, as you said, particularly from women that feel like they're given out a lot, they're not getting a lot. So I have a little, tidbit, a little tip that you and your listeners can take away. When you are in that banter, comment plus question. Always end it on a question so that there's something for them to respond to, usually a question that requires more than a yes or no response. That alone will change the whole tone of the conversation, because I feel like we get into our expectations again of, like, all right, now he's supposed to lead. He's not doing the thing. And as someone who's been married to a dry texter, that's what they call him, dry texting. I've been with a dry texter for 20 years. This man is not gonna get any better at texting. He's really not. And that's okay, because he's a really great communicator in person. He's a really great listener. And texting is just not his medium. And it's not a lot of people's medium, but it's a part of the process now that has to be embraced to move into the other juicier parts of communication.
LAURA STASSI
So banter and question, respond, and then question again to keep it going. I mean, right?
DAMONA HOFFMAN
Right, but you're right that at a certain point if you're like, it's all one word answers and they're not then asking any questions back. My little trick with clients is I'll have them say, is there anything that you would like to know about me? Because this happens on dates too. And sometimes that's a trigger for the person to be like, oh, I've been talking about myself. I didn't ask anything about them. But honestly, if they don't pick up on that, then I’m sorry, thank you next.
LAURA STASSI
Exactly.
LAURA STASSI
That’s dating coach Damona Hoffman. She’s an advocate for widening our search parameters, and for being perhaps a bit more tolerant of those whose online communication skills might be lacking. Damona says if we’re too narrow in our search, and too quick to swipe left, we may be overlooking some quality matches.
Still, when it comes to online dating, many of us are striking out. Like this woman from the Dating 101 episode.
[EPISODE EXCERPT]
GLYN
My name is Glyn, and I am from Chapel Hill, N.C. I've been divorced about eight years. And I decided last summer that I would dip my toe into trying to date again. I've gotten coaching that's helped me understand how to curate the background, listen, to learn, ask open-ended questions so that maybe I come across better.
I've had a couple of men take pictures of themselves with their head on their pillow, and they're under their covers.
LAURA STASSI
Eww.
GLYN
And that's not -- that's not a good way to come across. And I've had a couple of other men where they're, they're obviously looking in a mirror to see how they look. But they're not looking at the background, so you can see a row of urinals.
LAURA STASSI
(Laughter)
GLYN: And you know, I kept wondering if someone had come in and started going to the bathroom, would they even notice? I had someone this weekend, contact me. And he was writing about how we could get cozy under a blanket and do whatever we felt like. And again, it just doesn't seem as if they've thought through how that would sound to somebody else.
LAURA STASSI
Have you had any relationships through online dating?
GLYN
Not one.
[EPISODE EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
I checked in with Glyn recently. She told me she’s trying something new … it’s called The Burned Haystack Dating Method.
I had to Google it … and I found an online piece written by the English professor who created this method. Her name is Jennie Young. She says when she went online at the age of 50, like Glynn, she was quote “horrified” by the onslaught of photos of men holding fish and taking bathroom selfies. Not her idea of quality matches.
What she was looking for …. That so-called needle in a haystack. Jennie did some research, and she learned that the best way to find an actual needle in an actual haystack is to set it on fire. Because hay will burn, but the metal needle will not.
Now that’s an image. And what that means for online dating, according to Jennie’s method, is to get very specific about who we engage with online. She says after she put her method in place, it took her only 5 days to find a special someone. They dated for two years. They broke up, but Jennie says they’re still friends. She has no regrets about any of it. And now she’s using the method again. She’s also teaching it to OTHER online romance seekers.
The method … has about 10 rules. One of them is to interact only with peole who send messages that are well-written, reference our profiles, and do something to extend the conversation.
Another rule? If after a week or two of communication but no meeting in real life, you block without any further interaction. Blocking means that person will no longer show up in your pool of matches. Thus, the dating site algorithm is forced to produce new options.
Jennie says her method ensures that even if we don’t find a long-lasting love connection, we’ll meet really nice dates and actually enjoy the online experience.
Now I suppose that once you learn the rules, online dating might be easier … though perhaps learning the rules might take more effort than I’ve given online dating overall. Jennie describes her approach as one that requires us to slow down even as we’re becoming more efficient. And of course, we need to be honest and also kind.
As for Glynn? She tells me she’s joined Jennie’s private Facebook group. And she’s off the dating sites while she’s learning how to master the method. Glynn says it’s been eye-opening to learn how a potential partner’s language says more than the words and messages they send. She also says she’s a huge proponent of quote, not wasting my time to meet with inappropriate matches,” end quote.
We wish you luck, Glynn … even as I’ve found someone who’s not really a fan of the method. HER name is Elly Klein, and she’s a dating coach in Australia. Elly has a show called “Your Dating Bestie Podcast” … and she did an entire episode where she’s reading a review she wrote of the Burned Haystack Dating Method. With Elly’s permission, I’m sharing an excerpt:
[PODCAST EXCERPT]
ELLY KLEIN
According to the Burned Haystack Dating Method, the equivalent of ‘burning the haystack’ when it comes to dating apps is blocking every man you’re not into. When you swipe left, they can reappear in your feed. But when you block, you’ll never see them again. This seems good in theory. It ensures you only ever view new men and don’t waste time reassessing the ones you’ve already ruled out based on their dating profile or text messages. The trouble is it doesn’t allow for human error — both yours and his.
You might have been feeling particular dismissive that day. Or you might have changed your mind about something over time and decided it’s no longer a deal breaker. Likewise, he might not have been at his best when he wrote that dating profile, posted those pictures or sent those messages. He might have been new to online dating. He might have just had his heart broken. Or he might have been on the rebound. But months or years later, he might have evolved. He might have learned a lot about how to present and conduct himself online. Or he might finally be ready for a meaningful relationship and have a completely different online dating vibe.
Unfortunately, you’ll never see these men on the dating app ever again because you blocked them. My husband, David, and I were on and off the same dating platform for years. It’s quite possible he attempted to connect with me years earlier and I overlooked him. Years earlier, when I was less experienced with dating and relationships, he wasn’t what I thought I wanted. Or maybe his dating profile wasn’t up to par for me at the time. If I’d blocked him, we never would have reconnected on that platform.
Now, imagine doing this for years. I know you want to meet your Mr Right yesterday, but the reality is it might take years. In that time, you’ll probably be in and out of short-term relationships. It takes time to get to know someone and see if they’re a long-term fit for you. But when you get back on the dating app, you’ve already blocked a lot of men in your local area who might be in a completely different place in their lives. But there’s no chance of connecting with them because you blocked them. ‘Ah, but I can un-block them’, I hear you say. Trust me, you won’t. It’s time-consuming and you probably made the right call with 80% of them. Do you really want to unblock hundreds of profiles in the hope of finding the 20% that deserve a second chance? That’s why it’s best to not block them in the first place. Sure, swipe left and move forward. But don’t block unless they’re truly disrespectful, narcissistic or just 100% not for you.
[PODCAST EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
That was dating coach Elly Klein, from Down Under. We’ll have link to that podcast episode on the Bonus Content page of Dating While Gray. We’ll also share a link to Jennie Young’s web piece explaining her method. You can decide for yourself whether it’s something you’d like to explore further.
Coming up … we’re talking to listeners about their swiping habits and how they’ve been working out. That’s after the break.
BREAK
LAURA STASSI
We’re back, with Dating While Gray: The Grown-Up’s Guide to Love, Sex, and Relationships. I’m Laura Stassi.
When I was doing research for this episode, I came across a survey that was commissioned by Forbes Health. In it, they talked to one-thousand Americans who’d used a dating app within the past year. This survey found that almost half of all respondents, regardless of age, are online because they’re looking for a serious long-term relationship.
And since I love a study with age breakdowns, I can tell you that it’s 47 percent of all boomers … also, 47 percent of all Gen X’ers, looking for a committed partner. Younger daters have slightly higher percentages – 49 percent of millennials, and 52 percent of the Gen Z’s.
The survey also found that overall, women spend about 52 minutes every day on the dating sites. Men spend 49 minutes a day.
Is all this time worth it? Doesn’t sound like it. Overwhelmingly, the survey participants say online dating has left them feeling burned out … and it’s usually because they can’t find who they’re looking for.
That reminds me of Karen, also from our Dating 101 podcast episode.
[EPISODE EXCERPT]
KAREN: I feel like they're not even paying attention, that they just hit the like button, honestly. Because if you read my full profile, which is three short paragraphs -- it's not that much to read. It says that, you know, you should live in San Luis Obispo; you should smile in your pictures; you know, you should be aware and interested in the world around you. And I just, you know, I get responses -- well, that just hit the like button and don't say anything, or their pictures are just really bad. Like I mentioned, you know, the selfies where they're not smiling and, or in the bathroom. I mean, all these things that you know, sites tell you not to do. It's like they haven't put any effort into it. So every once in a while, I'll get somebody. but I don't know, I don't get that many. I feel like I've hit a lot of likes, and I don't get a lot of reciprocal likes.
[EPISODE EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
In that episode, we called on two experts to evaluate Karen’s write-up and photos in her online dating profile. I checked in with her recently. She told me she’s happy, life is good. But she hasn’t been on the dating apps in almost a year, and she’s pretty much given up on them. She thinks the biggest problem is a very shallow dating pool where she lives.
Oh boy. I know the advice you got was solid, Karen. I’m sorry things haven’t worked out.
I confess that one of my big issues with online dating is, I have a really hard time discerning whether I want to get to know someone based on just looking at their photos and reading their profile. Maybe it’s a wiring issue with my brain and visualization, I don’t know. But my typical response is … when it doubt, toss him out. Not an especially effective strategy, clearly.
So I’m always impressed with people who don’t make rash judgments, even when they see something that gives them pause.
Like Julie, the dater we profiled in the episode “Long Leap to Love.” Remember Julie? She’d been on and off the dating sites for over two decades before striking romantic gold.
[EPISODE EXCERPT]
JULIE
We met on eHarmony, which is one of the sites I’ve tended to gravitate towards in the years to come. Match and eHarmony. Basically, although I’ve done them all: OKCupid, Plenty of Fish, all of them. I contacted him first. He was the executive that ran a private Catholic school, so then and I thought it was important to let them know, you know, I’m an atheist. So is that going to be a problem? So we kind of got some of those things out early.
LAURA STASSI
When you say you got things out early, was this before you even met? Or was this like part of the getting to know each other?
JULIE
Part of getting to know each other, I think, yeah, just in the first — I only exchange emails and texts for a couple of weeks at the most.
[EPISODE EXCERPT ENDS]
LAURA STASSI
Just think if Julie had automatically passed over this man because of that whole Catholic-atheist disconnect. I wanted to hear HIS views on this topic, so I reached out.
FRANK
Yeah, hi Laura, I’m Frank, and I live in Southern Oregon, and I've been here. I'm a transplant from New England. I spent my first 28 years in the great state of Rhode Island, and moved out to Oregon, and have been here for 35 years. Just recently retired from running a little prep school. I was a headmaster at a very nice little 160-year-old prep school here, here in Oregon. Unfortunately, I've lost my wife of 30 years, lung cancer a few years ago, after a pretty rough go of it. After kind of grieving and being lonely, I went out into the online dating community, met a wonderful woman.
LAURA STASSI
That's why I want to talk with you, because the woman who she ran across your profile on an online dating site, and she noticed that you were connected professionally with a religious organization.
FRANK
Yes. And it bears a little explanation. So a headmaster at a with the third oldest school of any kind in Oregon, which started life as a Catholic school with some Canadian nuns back in 1865 and yeah, Oregon had barely achieved statehood. And then when the Catholic Church finally got out here, and an archdiocese and that whole Catholic bureaucracy was established, the nuns turned it over, and it ran as a full on Catholic school until 1972, when there was just not a large enough Catholic population in our neck of the woods to sustain it, and the church was going to close it, and a local group of parents bargained with the church to run it as an independent school of 501 c3, separate corporation, and the church allowed them to use the campus for $1 a year, as long as the school maintained its name, kind of hold on to that Catholic tradition. Even if Catholics became a minority, which they are, they're down to less than they're about 15% of the school population. So it's kind of a strange Catholic school.
LAURA STASSI
Well, not strange, but I was gonna say it's just interesting, because there is a rich story, and online dating sometimes doesn't allow you to explain. So she saw you were the headmaster of a Catholic school, and she could have just swiped left, but she said she wanted you to know right off the bat that before things really got going, that she was an atheist, and she thought it was important for you to know that right away, given your what you were doing. So do you think it was important to know that right away?
FRANK
I kind of laughed when, chuckled when I saw that, because I'm quite a I was, I was raised, I'm an Italian guy from Providence, Rhode Island, which is a very Catholic place, and so I went through confirmation and did all that, you know. So I was a suitable character to run this school, which kind of has a Catholic light background. But personally, I'm a lapsed Catholic, and it really didn't matter to me. Most of my friends are atheists or non believers.
I'm not religious at all in any organized religion, but I'm willing to entertain that there might be something more going on in the universe on kind of like a philosophical, existential basis. Then, you know, some willing to withhold judgment. I was really happy that she shared those with me up front, and that I was able to share my own in return, and it wasn't that big of a hurdle for us.
LAURA Let's say she saw your profile and was like, Oh, great, I'm very devout. I'm evangelical. Would that have been something that you would have wanted to know right away?
FRANK
I hadn't considered that, that's an interesting scenario. If she were evangelical, I would have taken a polite pass on the relationship.
LAURA STASSI
Oh, you wouldn't have even wanted to get to know her.
FRANK
Maybe. I, you know, I'm a little particularly when you throw when you mention the evangelical Christian, there was like a huge community of Bible thumping evangelical Christians here that are predominantly very conservative and, in my opinion, a little hypocritical. You know, there's a big megachurch here with a lot of really nice SUVs and, you know, espresso shop to go to after service, and predominantly white. And so that might have been a bridge too far for me, and I certainly wouldn't want to lead anybody on and meet them even for coffee, if, because, yeah, that'd be a deal-breaker, actually.
LAURA STASSI
So looks wouldn't have swayed you. I mean, she’s a beautiful woman.
FRANK
She is a beautiful woman. Yeah, I'm actually very lucky, and I can't believe she's going out with some old guy like me.
LAURA STASSI
Yeah, but you know, you know we talked about it on the podcast before, where men, I mean, just speaking generally, men tend to be more visual than women, and so they want to have a physical connection before they get to know someone, where women could get to know someone. And I think, honestly, that's probably why Julie, she I'm sure she thought you were very attractive, but, oh my gosh, I think you should know I'm a, you know, I'm an atheist, where you might have been like, I don't care what you are cuz you're good-looking, but you're saying that's not true.
FRANK
No, it's not, you know. And I was coming from a place where I've been, I've been married twice. I got married after my sophomore year in college, and that marriage lasted about 13 years, and then was coming up on the 30th anniversary. So I've been a married guy for a long time, and I was really looking for companion. I know it sounds suspect when a guy says it, but I was looking for a really good -- I was looking for a really good companion.
I was very lonely at that point in my life, and it was a really pleasant surprise to fall in love and find romance, because I just didn't enter into it. You know, seeking somebody who was super attractive for a kind of passionate relationship. I was looking for a companion that I could share these years with.
ELLEN VOICE MAIL
LAURA STASSI
OK, is anyone else finally feeling a little tempted to give online dating another try … maybe by blocking to burn, maybe by taking a little more time before discarding potential matches … maybe with the goal of having a special someone to ring in the New Year with? Gosh, I can’t remember the last time I had a date for New Year’s Eve. How about you?
For a final bit of swiping inspiration, I’ll share this email from a listener. She told me she was opposed to online dating apps but quote, did it anyway … and is so glad she took that uncomfortable first step. She wound up meeting a man on Hinge who lives a mile away from her but someone she likely would have never met in person. He’s 54, she’s 60, they got married in June.
She writes, “I would not have connected with him just by his profile, but the app and its ‘prompts’ helped us connect and engage over a shared interest in a musical artist.”
Hinge, huh? That’s one I haven’t tried … yet.
END CREDITS
