When Classical Music Goes Viral: Orchestras, Film Scores & the New Sound of Culture

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Okay, so welcome back to Classically Speaking,
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folks, where we explore the stories of shaping
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today's classical world. I'm Nicholas Hummus
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Lindsay. And I'm Sam Estes. Today, we're going
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to be digging into the two massive trends defining
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how audiences discover orchestral music, the
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viral rise of the orchestra on social media,
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and the global obsession with the cinematic film
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scores. And these aren't just basically niche,
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like, trends. They are generally, like, how shifting
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these ensembles are, like, how they perform.
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and like how audiences, young audiences, basically
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how they like listen and how composers think
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about impact as well. So let's jump in into this
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week's hot topics. This is a lot of fun. I'm
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so excited. And so, you know, this year is the
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year of the viral orchestra. Can you believe
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that? I had no idea that was gonna be like that.
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I love it. I haven't done so. It's where we should
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be. Yeah, that's still true. And one of the things
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is that on YouTube, like orchestras are going
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viral on TikTok and also YouTube shorts at an
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unprecedented scale. And so I think what I've
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been noticing is that I've noticed there is a
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lot of shorts about like unprecedented like Mahler,
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also other instrumentalists like playing like
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pop culture pieces as well. That's like really
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big. Like the other day, there's actually a oboeist
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that's coming out of Julliard that's like really,
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really popular. His name is in, oh my God, if
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this computer right here will show me his name,
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I swear. You know, this is the thing about these
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days. Like, come on, show me this. Well, while
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you're looking at that, I think. Okay, so it's
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S. Oh, go ahead. So it's S. Yeah, S. P. Rubin.
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So he comes over in like in Julliard and basically
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he shows like the day in life of him. like playing
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oboe and also him actually being like a content
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creator. And he had to like this one that actually
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went viral and it was him doing Norris Barclays
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crazy. You know, you know, that's like 2006,
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2007, but he used to track and he started playing
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oboe as like the back part of it and was like
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still super cool. But he also did like a six
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hour Mahler rehearsal and it was insane. Yikes.
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Hopefully not broadcasting all six hours. I mean,
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that sounds like college all over again for me.
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It was just like, I think it was pretty cool
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though. Cause like, I think a lot of people don't
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know like how, like how musicians in general,
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like how their lives like start and basically
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end. And also mixing that in with like content
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creation is like a really, really big deal. And
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it's... It's a lot of work, you know, trying
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to get that all, like, all together. You know
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what I mean? Yeah, it's two full -time jobs.
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It really is. It really is. And it's so cool,
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though, because, like, younger audiences right
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now are, like, discovering symphonies through,
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like, remixed culture and short -form, like,
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storytelling. But... I'm also like noticing as
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well is just that looking over into YouTube shorts,
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I'm seeing a lot of fun things about conductors
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and that's pretty cool. Like I saw one about
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like Gustavo Dudamel when he was with the CIMO
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in Bolivia or like Youth Orchestra. And when
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he was basically doing, I just, you know, I just
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literally performed this with the USC Students
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of the Orchestra like the other day. My God,
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it was West Side Story. So he was doing West
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Side Story and was like so super cool. And, like,
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the whole audience, like, went in on it, and
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they were, like, having, like, a good time. And
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you saw, like, all this, like, audience participation
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with this piece, because, like, they automatically
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knew. They knew what West Side Story was about,
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you know? And they knew what the Mamba was about,
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though, too. And, yeah, and I think, like, even
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for, like, a group being, like, for us, like,
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even in choral groups, I could see us, like,
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doing something that you're like, oh, you know
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what? That is something that is recognizable
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to... to the audience, and we could definitely
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do that for like a TikTok or YouTube short or
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something like that. Yeah, I mean, it goes to
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show, I mean, there's two things going on here.
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One, it's showing mastery. People with mastery
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over their instruments, people with mastery over
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the understanding of the music, the performance
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of the music. I mean, people who haven't gone
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to music school don't know the hours and hours
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and hours we spent, you know, toiling over scores,
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understanding music history, going through every
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single little nook and cranny of, you know, how
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instruments were created. and why we do theory
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and what it's like. And we, you know, we have
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to tear down anatomy to understand like how the
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voice works or how your breathing structures
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work. We have to go into, I mean, math. We have
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to go into all kinds of research and writing.
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We have to, I mean, this is the music field in
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and of itself is a very all encompassing career.
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I mean, we have to do language arts. We have
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to like understand how to speak languages properly.
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And it's not just like, how do you speak Italian?
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It's like, how do you speak Italian from the
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16th century? What does French Latin look like?
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It's just, it is never ending, the learning process
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of being a musician. And so it's great to see
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some of this viral stuff start coming out so
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people can understand what it means to actually
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be a musician. There's one thing to pick up a
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guitar and start playing and learning some chords
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and that's fantastic. And I love it that people
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can interact with music like that. I also love
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the fact that people can just open up Suno or
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Udo or whatever AI is popular at the time and
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to be able to do some prompts and start, you
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know, playing with music. And that's that's great.
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Okay, let's talk about Sunno though, because
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I literally just jumped on that Sunno thing last
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week for the first time, and I was gagging the
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hell out, like, when I was on that. All I had
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to do was, I was like, because I listened to
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Robin's first album, well, not first album, what
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I'm talking about, her new single I just literally
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just dropped, like, a week or a week and a half
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ago. No, it was last week. See, I can't even
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fill out concept of time right now. But yeah,
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so, like, basically, she dropped this album last
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week, and I was like, and my friend told me,
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he said, you know what, I'm, like, using Sunno.
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to do AI music. And I said, okay, let me just
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go ahead and play with this. And I literally
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pinned a prompt in there and it popped out a
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song for me without me even trying. And I was
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just kind of like gagged out. I was laughing
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for quite a while because I know the song is
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bad, but it was cool though. Yeah, it's a fun
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toy to interact with. And we'll definitely do
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this as a hot topic, but all I'm trying to say
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at this point is we're working through what these
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600 years of mastery that we've been going through
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to end this evolution of music and and for younger
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generations now to get an idea of how music has
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evolved all the way to today and understanding
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the history and the concepts, you know I don't
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want to disparage like current music and not
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having mastery and all that kind of stuff, because
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when you work at something long enough, you're
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going to get mastery at it, whether if it's producing
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audio, recording techniques, singing, playing
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an instrument, whatever it is that you are doing
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and getting mastery over, that's fantastic. So
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I'm not disparaging that. But there's something
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to be said about prior to technology in general,
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like the invention of electricity. that people
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really had to work with the instruments that
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they had, because instrument technology and developments
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of boring techniques of wood and keys and mechanical
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things, they took a long time to get to what
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we have as the modern bassoon today, what we
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have as the modern piano. I keep hitting my mic.
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There's something to be said about what people
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had to do way back then to overcome the issues
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with their instruments, what issues were still
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overcoming. and really work and really practice.
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And then you have music on top of that, composers
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who have written music specifically for those
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limitations or pushing those boundaries and pushing
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those limitations, you know, starting with really,
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I mean, Bach and even prior to that, of really
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expanding what technology they had and how they
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could push it. That made music in and of itself
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very difficult and very difficult to master because
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you kept pushing the mounds of the technology
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you had at the time. And so we have all this
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performance practice that evolved out of that.
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We have all this history that evolved out of
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that. And now, you know, people think it's so
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easy. They go and, you know, and they may not
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even be aware of the history that came before
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with all this stodgy music or music that's like,
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oh, it's just, you know, I have to sit here for
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an hour and a half to listen to a full symphony.
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And it's just, I don't want to have the time.
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I want to have, you know, my 10 seconds quick
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feed and quick, you know. bumped my brain of
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like, oh, look, I learned something, which is
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fine. I'm glad we're learning things. But, you
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know, mastery and understanding how audio and
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music and composition and long form things, how
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things develop and, you know, how melody is developed
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and how it moves around in the instrument and
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all that kind of stuff. And once you start getting
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outside of the short snippets, and start getting
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into the longer form, like how things actually
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develop and how things work and all that kind
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of stuff and get past your, you know, kind of
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the quick hit culture. I think that barrier to
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entry that's happening right now in TikTok and
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the short form media is amazing. And I'm hoping
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people will continue to go through that and go,
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I really like this. I think maybe I should sit
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down and listen to a little bit more of this
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and really start expanding my knowledge base.
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of what music is doing. So I'm really excited.
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I really hope this can help people understand,
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you know, it's not just this, you know, big bombastic
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Shostakovich, Stravinsky, you know, big, huge
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elemental thing that's coming through, but there's
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a much bigger, longer development that gets us
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into these things. But you know what though,
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back in the day, and I remember listening to
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101 .1... classical over in Dallas and I remember
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my introduction to Mahler symphonies and even
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like even like Brahms and Bruckner and stuff
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and I remember them actually presenting that
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10 to like 30 second big hit that caused my attention
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it grabbed my attention so hard that I really
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wanted to listen to more of it you know and this
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is like pre -social media days And so I was destined
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to go directly, I was very driven, to go directly
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over to Burns and Noble and tell my parents,
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like, I want the CD, like right now. It will
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be like the double CD, okay? Like it was back
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then at that time. Listen to the whole thing
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because it was so exciting. Then from there,
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I was like, oh wow, I want to know more of the
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history. Like why this piece, why did Mahler
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create the second symphony? Wait a minute, there's
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a symphony called Symphony of a Thousand? Wait,
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what does that basically mean? He brought a thousand
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people together, how'd that work? And I wanted
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to learn more of that. And so I was like, so
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the 10 to 30 second hit really does, in my point
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of view, does really help people drive them directly
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over there to the purchase or for them to go
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ahead and do the evaluation. And I think... Also,
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that's how Gen Z basically really interacts with
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classical music right now. But also, I'm noticing
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how those particular type of hits will involve
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them to sample to the other pieces of work. So
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let me just say this, going back to that, is
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that what ensembles are doing basically right
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now. I'm looking into the algorithm. I'm looking
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at Berlin Philharmonic. They're doing really
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great work in what they're doing for the Shores.
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I'm also seeing Trondheim Symphony. They're doing
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fun comedic skits with their conductors, which
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is kind of funny, you know, based off of what
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they're doing. What could Voices LA do with our
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conductors? What can we do that would make it
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interesting? Yeah, I personally find choral music
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fascinating. I think the human voice is the most,
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you know, it's the most raw we get with how we
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communicate music. And, you know, everybody can
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sing. Whether or not you can hold a pitch and
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do it properly is, you know, something you train
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for. But the reality is we all have an instrument
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that we carry with us all the time. And we're
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one of the only species in the world that enjoys
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a song other than, you know, obviously whales
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and, you know, dolphins, and I'm sure there's
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others. some creatures that do sing, but we use
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this as both communication as well as communication
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of the soul, communication of what we're feeling.
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I think having that kind of visceral connection
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to each other with how we sing and how we communicate,
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I think is where we can really tap into with
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.620
conveying emotion, with textures, with how cool
00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:10.419
we can actually make the human voice sound. It's
00:13:10.419 --> 00:13:12.950
not just, you know, church music. It's not just
00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:15.129
choral singing. It's not, you know, like a hymn
00:13:15.129 --> 00:13:17.230
or something like that. You know, there's a lot
00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:20.490
of great pieces of music out there that use the
00:13:20.490 --> 00:13:26.129
voice beyond just putting words to notes. Right.
00:13:26.929 --> 00:13:30.269
Textures and things we can do with harmonies
00:13:30.269 --> 00:13:34.090
and whatnot that's been explored and is continuing
00:13:34.090 --> 00:13:36.970
to be explored. And I think it's a lot of fun.
00:13:37.169 --> 00:13:41.019
I think diving into that is one aspect. I think
00:13:41.019 --> 00:13:44.500
the camaraderie of how we sing together and how
00:13:44.500 --> 00:13:46.799
we're, you know, blending and listening to each
00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:48.899
other and trying to figure out, you know, we're
00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.080
not a group of soloists. We're a group that is
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:56.080
one voice. And getting to that one voice is a
00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.679
magical thing. And learning how to blend and
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.139
learning how to listen, those are techniques
00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:03.740
that I think, you know, are really important,
00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:07.159
especially in this day and age of... disharmony
00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.759
to really work through that. So that's another
00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:11.559
thing we could look at. Another thing we could
00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:14.559
look at is John. John is a character. He's fantastic.
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:16.899
He's a character. He's funny as heck. Yeah, for
00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:20.820
sure. Yeah. And he loves what he does. And I
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:23.899
think his little speeches that he gives to us
00:14:23.899 --> 00:14:27.019
are fantastic. And his stories of... you know,
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:30.039
his career and everything else, those are little
00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:32.340
snippets of the fact that we're doing new music.
00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:34.600
We have, you know, composers here in the LA area
00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.679
that we're working with, you know, and as well
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:39.960
as all the old stuff and doing little bits of
00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:42.960
history and, you know, talking to people in the
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:44.860
choir and why they're drawn to it. Because, you
00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:46.759
know, we're not all professional musicians. You
00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:49.620
know, a lot of us have training, but, you know,
00:14:49.659 --> 00:14:52.179
there's a lot of people that aren't in music
00:14:52.179 --> 00:14:55.600
that are in our choir. that are bringing their
00:14:55.600 --> 00:15:00.080
talents and refinement and craft to a group that
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.399
isn't necessarily their job and working really
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:04.440
hard towards that. So those are elements we can
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.039
talk to individuals on that and why they're looking
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.700
at it. But I think it's this... individual to
00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:11.940
group thing that's very attractive about a choir
00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:14.159
and very attractive about people who want to
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.940
come sing with us. No, I agree. I totally agree.
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:19.740
And I think that's like very, I think that's
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.059
very like connective though that like just as
00:15:22.059 --> 00:15:24.639
a community, that's what we specifically need.
00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:30.320
Especially as in our voice and building our voice.
00:15:32.059 --> 00:15:35.240
Los Angeles community, but also even like the
00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.320
Pasadena community, where we're kind of like
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.259
based in like for right now, but we actually,
00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:42.919
we're Southern California. We're older Southern
00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:44.519
California. That's why we're not in the same
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.720
room right now. Exactly, exactly. That's, you
00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:50.320
know, that's what's really important. But also
00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:52.179
one thing, and I want to go ahead and turn it
00:15:52.179 --> 00:15:55.240
over to you though too, is that there is, since
00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:57.600
we are in Los Angeles and we're about to go into
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.639
Oscar season, and I've also noticed that there,
00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:03.360
look, there's a movie happening outside my door
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:05.860
right now. They're literally filming Jumanji
00:16:05.860 --> 00:16:07.840
outside my door right now. And so we're about
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.320
to go into another hot topic, which is crazy.
00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.879
It's the renaissance of like, the cinematic score
00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:18.720
because last week, I was when I was in my orchestra
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.679
concert, one of the pieces that we had in there
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:25.360
was the theme to Jurassic Park. We did Tchaikovsky,
00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:28.960
we did Mussorgsky, we did Gershwin, but it was
00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.240
John Williams that everybody was like, they went
00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:33.659
crazy. They just went crazy when we did Jurassic
00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:38.460
Park. And one thing I was noticing is what really
00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:42.360
gets butts to seats though. is identity to film
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:46.240
scores and also nostalgia of what they were like,
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.840
you know, as a child and like what they're currently
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.720
doing and like identity, that kind of thing.
00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:55.519
And so do you feel that is currently like a trend
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.279
or like, what do you kind of feel about that
00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:01.779
right now? Well, so this goes back to more of
00:17:01.779 --> 00:17:05.619
how we ingest music. And whenever you tie music
00:17:05.619 --> 00:17:08.500
to another art form like film, you kind of double
00:17:08.500 --> 00:17:12.279
down. on how people ingest and experience this,
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.579
because now you have two forms of media that
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:17.859
you're attaching something to. So that's why
00:17:17.859 --> 00:17:21.680
there's a good portion of classical music that
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:26.339
is tied to opera, that is tied to ballet, because
00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:29.619
these things are more than just a piece of music
00:17:29.619 --> 00:17:32.880
that you go and sit down to. I think, you know,
00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:37.109
the church... experience too. You have a spiritual
00:17:37.109 --> 00:17:40.250
component that you attach music to. So, you know,
00:17:40.329 --> 00:17:42.410
a lot of the big hits other than, you know, like
00:17:42.410 --> 00:17:45.470
a Beethoven symphony or whatever tend to be tied
00:17:45.470 --> 00:17:49.589
to another art form, another media. And so now
00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:52.630
when we go and we hear, you know, a John Williams
00:17:52.630 --> 00:17:55.690
or a Hans Zimmer, you know, Danny Elfman or any
00:17:55.690 --> 00:17:58.029
of these other guys that have music that is tied
00:17:58.029 --> 00:18:01.509
to a cultural experience, such as a movie, that
00:18:01.509 --> 00:18:05.329
really helps promote what, you know, what it
00:18:05.329 --> 00:18:07.950
means to tie music together and to have that
00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:11.210
shared cultural experience. Now, we're not necessarily
00:18:11.210 --> 00:18:15.309
going to concerts of like Bernard Herrmann or
00:18:15.369 --> 00:18:17.990
you know, Max Steiner or some of these older
00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:20.910
composers, just because those films have kind
00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:23.950
of fallen out of style. But that music is equally
00:18:23.950 --> 00:18:26.349
as good as John Williams, if not in some cases
00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:30.190
better. Now, granted, the film music experience
00:18:30.190 --> 00:18:35.269
is 100 % tied to what was happening out of, you
00:18:35.269 --> 00:18:38.569
know, Europe in the late 19th. That evolution
00:18:38.569 --> 00:18:41.509
of early film music development into modern film
00:18:41.509 --> 00:18:44.440
music development has a very very solid throughput.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.640
Early film music was often based on what was
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.039
happening in the concert experience. And so that
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:55.059
tied directly into film music. And so there's
00:18:55.059 --> 00:18:59.640
this whole history of this shared experience
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.619
of emotion of stuff that is tied to film, that
00:19:02.619 --> 00:19:06.759
was tied to the stage, was tied to the concert,
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:09.220
you know, going all the way back to religious
00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:12.039
experiences and whatnot. But it's because we
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:15.539
have this common musical language that was ubiquitous
00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:18.980
with John Williams, who's a master at the orchestra,
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.259
at grabbing melodies and themes and developing.
00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:25.920
We can sit through a movie, and those themes
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.519
are developed all the way through his movies.
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:30.960
And we hear them, and we hear them being developed,
00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.119
and we hear how he works with it. And so we're
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:35.880
able to have a longer attention span, even though
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:38.339
it's going on in the background. We have a longer
00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:40.779
attention span when it's tied to another piece
00:19:40.779 --> 00:19:44.180
of media. Now, film music today is getting very
00:19:44.180 --> 00:19:47.700
different. Film composers are, you know, there's
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:50.640
a big problem with money. There's a big problem
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:55.019
with the value of musicians, of how pieces are
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:57.839
made. Studios being willing to put money together
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:01.180
because the money's just not quite there anymore.
00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:03.599
People aren't going to movies like they used
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.799
to. Short -form media... is kind of taken over
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:13.200
people's free time and ingestion of... So, and
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.359
a lot of that's free. A lot of that is, you know,
00:20:16.539 --> 00:20:19.819
only paid for through advertisement. And so,
00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.680
and it's nothing, one is, you know, there's nothing
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.579
wrong with that. That's just how things are evolving
00:20:24.579 --> 00:20:28.079
at this point. And so, in order to capitalize
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.660
on that from either film music or from classical
00:20:31.660 --> 00:20:34.220
music or whatever it is that we're doing, You
00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:37.180
know, we have to start adopting this short form
00:20:37.180 --> 00:20:39.359
media and really trying to figure out how to
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.900
get that out there and get it capitalized so
00:20:41.900 --> 00:20:45.019
we can work on both educating saying, hey, there's
00:20:45.019 --> 00:20:47.099
a much bigger piece here involved. You know,
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.359
come see a concert. It's not like sitting in
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:51.240
front of your screen kind of ingesting this.
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.680
This is something that's live, that's raw, that
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:59.359
anything can happen. And I think people who are
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:01.950
going to rock shows today, guess what? most of
00:21:01.950 --> 00:21:04.130
its tracks. There's not, you know, the only thing
00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:05.690
that's gonna go wrong is some kind of technical
00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:09.390
ability or a misstep on stage with dance. Musically,
00:21:09.710 --> 00:21:13.230
it's pretty much in the can. It's just being
00:21:13.230 --> 00:21:15.329
rebroadcast. Now, I'm not saying that's true
00:21:15.329 --> 00:21:17.910
with all bands, but a good portion of them are.
00:21:18.029 --> 00:21:21.420
And so, to really go down and see... you know,
00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:24.559
100 people or 50 people on a stage, all playing
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.319
together. Nothing's canned. It's all, you know,
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.680
if the conductor goes a half beat slower, the
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:31.900
whole piece sounds different. You know, nerves
00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:33.920
get in the way. There's all kinds of stuff that
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:36.380
happens, but going and appreciating someone's
00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:39.079
skill of how much they've worked together. And
00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:42.019
you go and sing it 100 people. They've put, you
00:21:42.019 --> 00:21:45.299
know... tens of thousands of hours into getting
00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:48.599
this prepped and going and seeing and appreciating
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.039
what that means, I think is something that people
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:54.359
need to experience. And so whatever we can do
00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.420
to start grabbing people in with short form content,
00:21:57.619 --> 00:22:00.200
bringing them into this world, I think we really
00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:02.339
need to be focusing on. We shouldn't be like
00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:03.880
beating it over the heads, like, look how much
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.339
time we spent doing this kind of stuff, but it
00:22:06.339 --> 00:22:09.119
really needs to be from that perspective of,
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:11.660
hey, come listen to the longer form. You've heard
00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:14.539
this little piece, come see it live. Cause this
00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:16.779
is a completely different experience than just
00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:19.059
being on your phone or having earbuds in or whatever.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:21.339
You know, and I think there's like two different
00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:24.000
things like what you're saying though, too, is
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.099
that, so going to a classical music concert,
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:29.920
right? And that experience is one of the kind
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.559
of like singular experiences. Like they're already
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.200
seeing action on the other side, it's kind of
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.029
crazy. I was like, I hope the rock is doing good
00:22:38.029 --> 00:22:40.450
right now. Oh my goodness. Going to a classical
00:22:40.450 --> 00:22:43.549
music experience is one of the singular experiences
00:22:43.549 --> 00:22:45.690
where you don't see a lot of people actually
00:22:45.690 --> 00:22:48.309
bringing out their cell phones to actually record
00:22:48.309 --> 00:22:50.789
and seeing what's actually happening on the stage
00:22:50.789 --> 00:22:53.170
all the time. They're literally putting their
00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:57.369
phone down to listen to the music, to understand
00:22:57.369 --> 00:23:02.349
it, to feel it, and to comprehend it and digest
00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:08.299
it at the end. It's a moment versus going to
00:23:08.299 --> 00:23:13.059
a pop concert where clearly, like I saw Dua Lipa
00:23:13.059 --> 00:23:16.059
was at a few weeks ago, I called Dua Lipa, thank
00:23:16.059 --> 00:23:20.799
you to Wendy Williams, but I saw her. where everybody
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:24.880
literally had their phone looking and just watching
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:27.420
the show through their phone, and they didn't
00:23:27.420 --> 00:23:29.859
experience that. And Lionel Richie came on the
00:23:29.859 --> 00:23:31.619
stage. I was excited just to watch Lionel Richie.
00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:33.259
I didn't even have my phone with me. And they
00:23:33.259 --> 00:23:36.359
were just excited just to watch it. But Gen Z,
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.640
and I even saw Baby Boomers and Gen X, they were
00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.380
there just for the hits. They were there just
00:23:42.380 --> 00:23:45.779
for the short form. That's not transferring directly
00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:47.640
into the constant hall because we're not allowing
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:50.460
that to transfer directly into the constant hall.
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:54.279
We're actually allowing what we're doing instead,
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:57.549
basically, is saying, pay your phones away. turn
00:23:57.549 --> 00:24:00.150
them off, enjoys the experience. But meanwhile,
00:24:00.390 --> 00:24:02.690
we will have, we already have photographers and
00:24:02.690 --> 00:24:04.769
people that have filmed to go ahead and bring
00:24:04.769 --> 00:24:07.569
in a small short form part of theirs. So we'd
00:24:07.569 --> 00:24:08.990
be able to go ahead and put that on YouTube.
00:24:09.329 --> 00:24:12.630
So you'd be able to say, or say, Hey, I was here
00:24:12.630 --> 00:24:14.730
or whatever that you need to go ahead and say.
00:24:15.130 --> 00:24:19.910
But the other part is, is that in the outside,
00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:22.930
the performance part is, is that we're not actually
00:24:22.930 --> 00:24:27.940
like hitting the the outside expression of like
00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:29.839
how people are feeling after they're done with
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.200
the performance. And I think that is something
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:34.859
that's been missed, especially in orchestral
00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:36.740
and also like choral music, because like once
00:24:36.740 --> 00:24:39.160
you're done with the piece or the encore, they're
00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:40.799
done. They're out the door. They're going to
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.599
go out to eat and that's about it. But if you
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:45.819
go to shows, especially like Broadway shows,
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:47.420
you know, you'll have that marketing department
00:24:47.420 --> 00:24:49.660
asking about, you're like, how was the show?
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:51.480
What do you feel about that? And I think those
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:52.960
are the kinds of things that were kind of like
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.099
missing. But also in terms, though, where we're
00:24:57.099 --> 00:24:59.420
talking about, like, identity and also, like,
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:03.019
crossover and especially, like, in film music,
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.920
like, these days, I see now, though, that there's
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:09.640
a lot of, like, pop music that is using a lot
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:12.480
of film references to incorporate into their
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:16.240
music. I'm also noticing, like, recently Rosalia
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:21.019
just created this new, her new magnum opus, Luke's,
00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:23.500
which was... It's amazing. Everybody, you have
00:25:23.500 --> 00:25:26.420
to listen to this album. It's insane. But she
00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:30.680
is baroque and also early classical music. And
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.779
she usually does like hip hop and pop. And she
00:25:33.779 --> 00:25:37.359
turned her album into orchestral pop. And she
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:40.240
also used, and she has B work in her. recent
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.759
album release, Burgheim, which is insane. It's
00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:47.240
like so super cool. And critics are like out
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.099
there now are just like, oh, this is so fresh.
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:51.240
You've never heard this before. But people have
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:52.980
done this before. Like people have definitely
00:25:52.980 --> 00:25:55.480
done this before. It's just people are just not
00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:59.359
listening or looking for folks like this in this
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:01.380
type of magnitude. And I think that's what's
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:04.200
really important. I can see us in, you know.
00:26:04.329 --> 00:26:07.329
or any other kind of coral organization, we can
00:26:07.329 --> 00:26:09.789
reinvent anything we want to reinvent. We're
00:26:09.789 --> 00:26:12.130
not reinventing the wheel, but we could do anything
00:26:12.130 --> 00:26:14.910
that we want to make it so interesting and much
00:26:14.910 --> 00:26:17.390
more fun. Yeah, and I, you know, I also kind
00:26:17.390 --> 00:26:20.369
of want to double down on, I think people, you
00:26:20.369 --> 00:26:25.009
know, react well to artistry. Yeah, true, yeah.
00:26:25.490 --> 00:26:27.910
To react well to people who know their craft,
00:26:28.230 --> 00:26:30.490
whether or not they really understand what went
00:26:30.490 --> 00:26:33.980
into it. to get to there. A lot of it comes from
00:26:33.980 --> 00:26:37.299
the personal love of the craft and then wanting
00:26:37.299 --> 00:26:40.480
to share that craft. I think there's a number
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:42.299
of musicians that are doing this right. I think
00:26:42.299 --> 00:26:44.680
Anna Lapwood is one of the ones that's really
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:46.640
showing her craft right now. I don't know if
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.579
you know her, she's kind of like, she's brought
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:53.519
organ to the Bane stage, so much so that I think
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:57.000
Hans used her on quite a few things. You also
00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.079
have Tina Guo, who's a the famous cellist who's
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:02.599
just a fantastic performer, and even like two
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.579
-step violin. I mean, I think every instrument
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:09.619
has kind of a star at this point. Oh, they do.
00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:15.200
They do. Percussion. I mean, even older percussionists
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:18.700
like Evelyn Glennie, who's just an amazing percussionist
00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:22.299
who's deaf, who's part of that community that's
00:27:22.299 --> 00:27:26.420
just understanding her story and seeing how good
00:27:26.420 --> 00:27:29.539
she is, is absolutely amazing. And then, of course,
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:32.200
you have Jacob Collier and all of his, like,
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.700
bringing artistry and understanding and his love
00:27:34.700 --> 00:27:39.660
of education to the concert venue. I mean, there's
00:27:39.660 --> 00:27:41.859
a lot of people that I think, you know, you really
00:27:41.859 --> 00:27:45.119
understand their craft and really understand
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.890
what's gone into it. And I think... showing people,
00:27:48.170 --> 00:27:50.450
like, look, you can do this too. It takes time.
00:27:50.589 --> 00:27:53.430
It takes effort. You can do this too. Absolutely.
00:27:53.789 --> 00:27:57.589
You know, you can even bring up, like, 2001 Bjork.
00:27:57.730 --> 00:27:59.049
You know, you can even throw that one in there
00:27:59.049 --> 00:28:01.130
when she did that Vespertine album. You know,
00:28:01.170 --> 00:28:04.450
that was big. That was really big, you know?
00:28:04.750 --> 00:28:10.230
And so I think, like, at the end of the day,
00:28:10.329 --> 00:28:12.650
as we, like, step into this, like, digital culture,
00:28:12.829 --> 00:28:16.220
I think... like film music and just core music
00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:18.960
and orchestral music. I think there's, we're
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.940
in year 2025. There's so many avenues that we
00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:30.079
could explore especially to make us even more
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.940
relevant. And I think, I also feel though that
00:28:33.940 --> 00:28:36.480
not, it's not just the beginning. I think we're
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:40.279
just, we're... awakening what classical and also
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:43.559
choral music is today. And there are juggernauts
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:45.660
that are coming out there right now really showing
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:48.160
what we're going about to do. And I can see us
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.720
really going ahead and do that. And so that's
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:53.339
what our trends are gonna be for the future.
00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:55.480
I can see that happening. You know what I mean?
00:28:55.630 --> 00:28:58.349
Like, yeah, and that's big. And so, okay, so
00:28:58.349 --> 00:29:00.150
I have a couple of questions because, you know,
00:29:00.170 --> 00:29:02.809
we're about to wrap up for this. And so, okay,
00:29:02.950 --> 00:29:05.509
do you think classical music is entering a cinematic
00:29:05.509 --> 00:29:08.890
era, yes or no? I think cinematic music is classical
00:29:08.890 --> 00:29:12.789
music. Okay, so we got that one. I think what
00:29:12.789 --> 00:29:17.130
we're doing is we're taking what was tied to
00:29:17.130 --> 00:29:20.849
an art form out of that tying and into the concert
00:29:20.849 --> 00:29:24.380
venue. making it an experience that people can
00:29:24.380 --> 00:29:26.740
share. And even though this, you know, we've
00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:29.160
been a part of it. We've been, you know, on the
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.519
Disney stage singing, you know, with the L .A.
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:36.019
Phil doing stuff for Home Alone and at the Bowl
00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:38.759
and, you know, having that shared experience
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.240
of doing the music. Yeah, that's so true. I think
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.819
orchestras and choirs and like choral conductors
00:29:45.819 --> 00:29:47.779
and just conductors in general, even people are
00:29:47.779 --> 00:29:51.119
just like, you know, solo singers are in opera,
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:52.920
I think we are going to be like the next thing
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.319
in culture for like for TikTok. I really feel
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:59.119
it. I think that once we, when we are coming
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:01.279
out there, now we're like mixing all types of
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.519
like cultures in there to actually promote our
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:06.259
music. I think that's like really big. And also
00:30:06.259 --> 00:30:08.480
I don't know who's going to be the next blockbuster
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:10.819
composer to come from social media. Do you, do
00:30:10.819 --> 00:30:14.559
you know who that's going to be in film or? The
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:18.339
next blockbuster composer. Yeah. For film and
00:30:18.339 --> 00:30:21.859
television or for? It's a quarrel for anything.
00:30:22.339 --> 00:30:26.779
I think for anything at this moment. I don't
00:30:26.779 --> 00:30:31.099
know. I mean, there's a lot of fantastic composers
00:30:31.099 --> 00:30:33.619
that are out there and people with great YouTube
00:30:33.619 --> 00:30:35.940
channels that are discussing their craft. You
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:40.700
know, I think Anne Dern is a fantastic female
00:30:40.700 --> 00:30:43.259
composer. Composer. I shouldn't even say female
00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:46.180
composer. Composer. Like, you know, we need to
00:30:46.180 --> 00:30:49.630
stop genderfying. stuff. You're a good composer.
00:30:49.950 --> 00:30:54.869
That's it. Yeah. So, you know, I, I think she's
00:30:54.869 --> 00:30:57.630
fantastic. You know, there's, there's, there's
00:30:57.630 --> 00:31:00.910
a lot of fantastic composers coming out of like
00:31:00.910 --> 00:31:03.789
Norway, Sweden, Iceland. There's something happening
00:31:03.789 --> 00:31:06.630
up there. Maybe it's just cold weather. Just
00:31:06.630 --> 00:31:09.069
bringing out a lot of fantastic composers from
00:31:09.069 --> 00:31:11.910
there. I mean, we've got, we've got our, you
00:31:11.910 --> 00:31:15.130
know, our local composers, um, you know, here
00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:19.730
in LA. Yeah. You know, we have some of our classics
00:31:19.730 --> 00:31:22.430
like Eric Whitaker, who's, you know, done, you
00:31:22.430 --> 00:31:25.710
know, these amazing viral, you know, collective
00:31:25.710 --> 00:31:30.349
choirs over Zoom and TikTok and all this stuff
00:31:30.349 --> 00:31:33.890
that's just, and he's a fantastic composer. You've
00:31:33.890 --> 00:31:38.609
got Chris Tin, who's put out a new album that's
00:31:38.609 --> 00:31:42.170
fantastic. That's just, you know, some beautiful
00:31:42.170 --> 00:31:45.799
music coming out nowadays. And I think... I think
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.380
as we get further and further away from what
00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:51.519
happened in the 50s and 60s, not to say that
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.079
there was bad music that came out of it. There
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:56.319
was just a lot of creativity and a lot of experimentation,
00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:59.900
but didn't necessarily translate to popular music.
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:01.980
But I think there's - You're talking about classically,
00:32:02.259 --> 00:32:04.220
right? You're talking about classically or pop
00:32:04.220 --> 00:32:07.380
-wise? No, no, no. I'm talking about music in
00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:11.069
general from the concert venue. See, I loved
00:32:11.069 --> 00:32:13.750
the music in the 50s and the 60s, like the composers
00:32:13.750 --> 00:32:16.809
back then. Like, Copland tore it up. No, no,
00:32:16.809 --> 00:32:19.130
no. We're not talking about... What are you talking
00:32:19.130 --> 00:32:21.210
about? We're not talking about post -romanticism.
00:32:21.309 --> 00:32:24.930
We're talking serialism. We're talking, you know...
00:32:24.930 --> 00:32:27.329
No, John Cage and stuff like that. No, I get
00:32:27.329 --> 00:32:29.450
it. Well, I mean, I personally love John Cage.
00:32:29.589 --> 00:32:32.910
I love George Crom. I mean, but, you know, I'm
00:32:32.910 --> 00:32:35.670
a weird nerd. But the thing is, you know, because
00:32:35.670 --> 00:32:38.450
I listen to music slightly differently and can
00:32:38.450 --> 00:32:41.029
understand, like, what's going on mathematically
00:32:41.029 --> 00:32:42.869
and all the stuff that we had to do as a composer
00:32:42.869 --> 00:32:45.269
because, you know, I had to study it. So I started
00:32:45.269 --> 00:32:48.490
to like it. It was, like, forced down me, but
00:32:48.490 --> 00:32:50.930
not really. I didn't like it at first, but, you
00:32:50.930 --> 00:32:53.829
know, it's, it's like, you know, I don't know.
00:32:53.970 --> 00:32:56.809
Yeah, I get it. Like for me, like Steve, yeah,
00:32:56.930 --> 00:33:00.069
like Steve Reich, Filt Glass, great. Like, you
00:33:00.069 --> 00:33:02.789
know, they're easy to listen to. Like, we understand
00:33:02.789 --> 00:33:08.289
harmony. You know, it works. Yeah. So, you know,
00:33:08.289 --> 00:33:11.069
there's something he said about how we hear,
00:33:11.150 --> 00:33:12.809
and this is another hot topic we can talk about
00:33:12.809 --> 00:33:15.710
another time, but how we hear music, how we hear
00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:18.029
audio, how we hear the acoustic spectrum that
00:33:18.220 --> 00:33:21.559
the natural harmonic series and make music that
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.500
just completely goes against that. It's not pleasant.
00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:27.640
It's not ubiquitous. It's not something we really
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.380
grasp on to as a human race. It's interesting
00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:35.220
from an academic standpoint, but it really divided
00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:38.779
a wedge from what was popular in the concert
00:33:38.779 --> 00:33:41.940
venue to what was being put out. And we needed
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:43.980
to go through that stage. We did. But now we're
00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:46.380
coming back. We're coming back using some of
00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:49.119
those elements, but really exploring textures,
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.539
exploring electronics, exploring technology that's
00:33:52.539 --> 00:33:55.099
getting us people back into the concert venue.
00:33:55.940 --> 00:33:59.039
No, I agree. to listen to music and to experience
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.599
it with a bunch of musicians. And that's really
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:05.240
what we're trying to go for, right? And so capitalizing
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:07.920
on that, capitalizing on the fact that our voice
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.730
is with us all the time. We all have the ability
00:34:10.730 --> 00:34:14.670
to express ourselves musically, but to go and
00:34:14.670 --> 00:34:16.650
use that and say, hey, look, this is a choir.
00:34:16.789 --> 00:34:19.110
This is something that people can do. This is,
00:34:19.110 --> 00:34:20.650
you know, there are lots of choirs out there.
00:34:20.869 --> 00:34:23.030
I would love for the whole world to sing, you
00:34:23.030 --> 00:34:25.550
know, and to be able to be a part of choir and
00:34:25.550 --> 00:34:27.750
to experience that with other people working
00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:30.989
towards a common goal of expression. And I think
00:34:30.989 --> 00:34:33.619
if we can tap into that. we're gonna be in good
00:34:33.619 --> 00:34:36.239
shape and using short form video to really get
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.860
stuff out there, to try to viralize something
00:34:38.860 --> 00:34:41.380
that is a much bigger thing than just being viral.
00:34:41.539 --> 00:34:45.139
We're not out to be viral. We're out to bring
00:34:45.139 --> 00:34:49.019
people in to this experiential thing that we've
00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:51.739
been doing as a culture for thousands of years.
00:34:52.059 --> 00:34:54.380
I agree, I agree. Okay, so we have to wrap up
00:34:54.380 --> 00:34:57.440
for like today. So we're rolling over time at
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:02.039
this moment. Oh my God, it's been so good. technicalities,
00:35:02.179 --> 00:35:04.739
we have the rock running down the street. It's
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:07.800
been busy, it's been a busy day. But in closing
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:11.139
though, we know that classical music isn't just
00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:13.599
stuck in the classical, in the consult, we know
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.840
this. And we know it's alive and digital and
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:19.800
also emotional, and honestly more culturally
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.460
relevant more than ever. And these trends aren't
00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:26.539
just entertainment, right? There are invitations
00:35:26.539 --> 00:35:30.659
and orchestras can... speak a new visual language
00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:33.400
and choirs can speak a new visual language. And
00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:35.659
it's very emotional and it's proving that these
00:35:35.659 --> 00:35:38.920
audience want to be a part of it. So please like
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:42.239
and follow and subscribe to whatever you listen
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.940
to your podcast, we're everywhere. And also thank
00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:49.320
you for joining us for this week's Hot Topics
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.719
and you have a really great day enjoying your
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:54.940
week. And Sam, do you have anything else? No.
00:35:54.940 --> 00:35:57.329
Okay. Thank you. This was fun. All right. It
00:35:57.329 --> 00:35:59.530
was fun. It was fun. Okay, you have a good day.
00:35:59.809 --> 00:36:01.389
Like, follow, and subscribe. Bye -bye.