WEBVTT
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All right, we are here with the Cigar Vishnu podcast in the Cigar Vishnu Lounge in New York City at the headquarters of M.
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Shankin Communications.
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I'm David Savona, the executive editor of Cigar Vishnu.
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Joined today by Greg Matola, our managing editor.
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Hello, Greg.
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How are you?
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You know, I never thought I would ever be on a podcast ever.
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And here I am, but very happy to be here.
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I I could sense your enthusiasm.
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This is great.
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So what are we talking about today?
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Today we are talking about pricey cigars.
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I mean, what price is uh in the news nowadays?
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Uh everything seems to be more expensive.
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Gas is more expensive, airline flights are getting more pricey, uh, your T-bone steak in a restaurant is a little bit more than you used to paying for.
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And cigars, too, have come up in price, especially in recent years.
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Uh, we've seen cigar after cigar hit and exceed the$100 price point, and that kind of takes us to what we're smoking right now.
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We are both smoking cigars that retail for$100 or more for a single cigar.
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There's$250 worth of cigars between the two of us right now.
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Well, which one are you smoking?
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Yeah, so I'm smoking the Rocky Patel Conviction, the Toro size.
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There's only one size in this brand.
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It's a one-size brand released in 2024.
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It is a heralded cigar.
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It was uh number seven cigar of the year for 2024 on Cigar Vichinado's top 25.
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I remember that.
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Yeah, we gave us a rating of 95 points.
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It's uh Nicaraguan smoke, all Nicaraguan on the inside with a Mexican wrapper, San Andreas wrapper.
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And Greg, what are you puffing today?
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Also Nicaraguan, also 95 points.
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And I think this also came out in 2024.
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This is the Monte Cristo from the 1935 uh anniversary Nicaragua series, but it is the doble Diamante, because there is a Diamante that came out as a follow-up, which is about 25 bucks.
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And then they came out with a double Diamante, 150 bucks.
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And the first question is always what makes these cigars so expensive?
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And in both cases, your cigar and my cigar, the answer is the same.
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A finite amount of very, very aged tobacco.
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Now I remember Rocky Patel talking about conviction the Nicaragua tobacco is from his maiden crop, which I was actually there for when that was growing in 2014.
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Tobacco that he grows himself in Nicaragua.
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Uh and uh especially the uh I was there for the crop in SLE.
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So I remember seeing it, and and you know, he was really proud of it, but he didn't know what he was gonna do with it.
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So he put most of it away and now it comes in uh conviction.
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And for the this Monte Cristo, it's also aged tobacco.
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Uh, this stuff is from AJ Fernandez.
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So so what's the deal with the expensive cigars?
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I mean, we're we're talking about two examples here that give you can't say bang for the buck, but they certainly uh uh give a high score for the high price.
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I mean, these are two 95-point smokes.
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And when we rate them, we rated these cigars like all the cigars we rate.
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They were rated blind.
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So they came to us without these bands.
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We didn't know what they cost, we didn't know what they were.
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Of course.
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Uh so these are classic cigars.
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95 points and up is a classic rating on our scale.
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Not every expensive cigar gets a high rating.
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These live up to the uh to the expectation.
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But uh where's where did this trend begin, Greg?
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When when did cigars start getting more expensive?
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What do you think?
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We always had expensive cigars.
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You had not like this, not this expensive in 2014.
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There was Davidoff release there, Oro Blanco.
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Davidoff always a pioneer of the uh high price game.
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But that was a$500 cigar.
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Uh 2016, then it was like that was a royal, like a royal salamon, that was over a hundred bucks, but it wasn't quite a trend yet.
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I think in 2022, when Habanos decided to double and triple the prices of Cohiba and Trinidad, making standard cigars in those lines really expensive, and the special editions over a hundred dollars.
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I think that was kind of a test market for the rest of the world because they released an anniversario cigar for 300 bucks.
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That was a limited edition, and the thing sold.
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And I think the rest of the industry kind of took notice and said, okay, there actually is a market for this.
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So in 2024, both these cigars come out, and they weren't the only ones doing that.
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Oliva has a uh very pricey cigar, Placencia's had pricey cigars.
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There's we have a listicle on our website, cigarapicionado.com, and poor Greg's constantly updating that because there's always new cigars coming out that sell for$100 or more.
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And very recently, you we we added, you added uh the standard cohibas because now there are standard cohiba cigars that sell for more than$100.
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See, and that's the huge difference because most of these cigars are limited edition cigars, limited run, like I said before, finite amount of tobacco.
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They make a couple of hundred boxes, and then that's the end because that's the end of the tobacco.
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Uh with the cohiba, those are all regular, regular esplenditos, regular lanceras, regular robustos, all going for more than a hundred bucks MSRP.
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And those are boxes of 25.
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So you look at a box of 25 cohiba robustos, that's a you're you're spending$2,500 to take that box home if you can find it.
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And that's everywhere.
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Now, not everyone will remember those who would travel internationally, those who like to shop around for cohibas.
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You could shop around for a good price.
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You could say, okay, I'm not gonna buy in Hong Kong, I'm not gonna buy in Canada, I'm not gonna buy in London because it's super expensive.
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I'll go to Germany, I'll go to Switzerland, go to Cuba, or go to Cuba, where it was the least expensive.
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So there were differences in the price of cohiba.
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In 2022, when Havanos raised the price, well, they also, as you remember, fixed it to the Hong Kong dollar, which I think at the time was was the most expensive market.
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Uh London was pretty high too before the V uh the V8, but it doesn't matter anymore.
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You can't shop around.
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It's as those days are gone.
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Yeah, it's as expensive in Havana as it is in London if you want to get uh Monte Cristo.
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And to your point, like you said, if you can find it.
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Remember the last time we went to Havana together?
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Bare shelves, bare shelves, expensive cigars if you could find them.
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Uh we did see people with bricks of cash buying cigars and uh and taking them home.
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It used to be uh I remember my first trip to Cuba, 1996.
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Uh, you could find a full box of cigars, not cohiba, but but good cigars,$50,$60, and back when they were priced in US dollars.
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Uh not anymore.
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That's uh the price for a single cigar for a lot of different vitolas.
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Well, remember the the the Coeba Bahicis came out in 2010.
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Yeah, don't remind me of the city.
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No, no, I'm bringing up that story.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's that story where we went to the Casa del Habano in Havana, I think it was at uh Habana Libre.
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Habana Libra, yeah, the old Hilton.
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And you were able to get a box where those cigars, the 52s, right, were 30 bucks a pop.
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And you said, nah, that's kind of pricey.
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$30 for a cigar.
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Yeah, three hundred dollars.
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Thirty dollars a cigar.
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I'm like, that's too much money to spend on a box of cigars.
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Now, Greg, tell tell us what I missed out on.
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Because that$300 box of cigars years ago, not that many years ago, what does that retail for?
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Uh I think now the BHK 52, when we just updated it, I think it's comes out to that's the smallest size in the Behake line.
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It's about$265 per cigar.
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So you could have got them for$30 each, and now if you can even find them, you're gonna be paying$265 a piece.
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And there were stacks of them.
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I should have bought them.
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I made a mistake.
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Let's talk about where we came from because yeah, I I've been smoking cigars for a long time.
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So have you.
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I'm a little older than you, maybe a little older than you.
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Uh joined Cigar Avicionado in 1995.
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So what I remember buying a box of cigars right before I started.
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It was one of my go-tos.
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It was a box of Hoyta Monterey Excalibur number threes.
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Smoked them all the time.
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And I spent all of$35 for that box of cigars, which uh, you know, it was was quite a deal at the time.
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I I think cigars were underpriced back in those days.
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They're now a luxury product and priced a lot higher.
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Uh, and looking at some historic numbers, we did a story in our 30th anniversary issue that showed the progression of prices over the years.
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The average price of a non-Cuban cigar in our tastings in 1992 was$2.93.
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There were cigars that cost$1.50, some that cost$2.
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There were a couple of higher price ones in there.
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Go to 96, that came up to$4.
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2006, 20 years ago,$6.43 on average.
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10 years ago, the average price was$10.42.
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Nowadays, Greg, what do you think the average price was in our most recent issue for one tasting category?
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I did the numbers, you don't know the answer, so I'm I'm testing it here.
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Average is probably not up to$20 yet, but I think it goes uh$17,$16,$17.
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Very good guess.
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It actually is almost$20.
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It was$19.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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That was an expensive category.
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There were a couple of$35.
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There was a$35 cigar, a$44 cigar, and a$55 cigar.
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If you remember, say 20 years ago.
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Some days I do, some days I don't.
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Well, 20 years ago, there were a few$20 cigars.
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But those, a$20,$25 cigar, that was a splurge.
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That was a really expensive cigar.
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Not many cigars reached that that price point.
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You had a few Padrones, some Davidoffs, some of the Fuente Opus X stuff, even though if uh just as a side note here, they they never had an MSRP of that.
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But the stores always charge$20 plus because they could.
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But for the most part, that was a huge splurge.
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And it's like now the huge splurge is the hundred dollar cigar or the$75 cigar.
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I mean, even our cigar of the year for 2025, it's$75 retail price.
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Yeah.
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Now you talked about special uh special qualities.
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Why are certain cigars more expensive?
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We're talking about uh limited tobaccos in these cigars.
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Uh with that cigar of the year, they're using some of their oldest tobaccos.
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And there's also a limitation.
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They have, I think, two rollers that make that size.
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It's a special shape.
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It's only their second perfecto.
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Yeah, it's a large salamone size, lots of curves, lots of tapers.
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I was there.
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Yeah, you were there in the factory.
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Yeah, I was there in January, and I saw one of the rollers, and he's just there, and that's all he makes.
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And he's and that day he was the only guy authorized to make the salamones to their uh to their specs.
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Are you urging him to make them faster to get more of them?
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Everyone wants that cigar.
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It's cigar of the year.
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When I go there, George Padron really watches me like a hawk.
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So he should.
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He've got your notebook, you're gonna you're writing down all his secrets.
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Yeah, and and you know, I'm I'm not above stealing cigars off the table, and he knows that.
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So, but no, I didn't I didn't get any.
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So, where do we go from here?
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Do you think uh we're we're reaching uh uh an end to this trend?
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Are cigars going to continue to get more expensive?
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I don't think we're we're seeing an end because if you look at other markets, once prices go up, there's a new floor.
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You're talking about how the price of everything goes up.
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Look at airlines.
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Okay, now there's gonna be a new a new surcharge for this or for that, more bag, you know, more uh increased price for baggage or just a fuel charge because of oil.
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Okay, but then when the oil prices start to stabilize, those airline prices don't go down anymore.
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Nothing goes down anymore.
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I think we just have a new floor.
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I remember hearing online because nothing, nothing gets people riled up online in the cigar world like like like prices.
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Sure.
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Prices really, really stoke the internet outrage.
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And one of the refrains I would often read is um for anyone doing an expensive cigar, oh, they're pricing themselves out of the market.
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Cohiba's pricing themselves out of the market.
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And I say that's not true.
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I say they're just pricing you out of the market.
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They're changing the demographic.
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A different segment of the market will be buying cohiba now, but they will sell everything they make and they will do it at whatever price they ask for.
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Now, that said, we're with their expensive cigars here, expensive cigars we've talked about, special cigars, maybe something for uh, you know, uh a splurge, and maybe not for everybody.
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The good thing about the cigar market is even with these expensive cigars and this trend of rising prices, you you still can find bargains if you know where to look.
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Oh, absolutely.
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Even within the Monte Cristo line.
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So I'm smoking the top of the top, the double Diamante.
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And it delivers 95 points, and it tastes different than the other ones.
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But if you look at the core line, the uh the the regular 1935 Nicaragua, not an expensive cigar.
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It's in that$10 to$15 range, and it's a fantastic experience.
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:04.799
It's uh cigars from that line got number two on our top 25 on more than one occasion.
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The number two, uh the number two size got number two, and then the espesso, I think, got number two in 2025.
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And that's not a hundred dollar cigar.
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Well, we mentioned Padron, the current cigar of the year with their$75 smoke.
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Padron makes a host of different brands.
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Uh the core line, the thousand series, uh, relatively inexpensive, certainly inexpensive compared to the Cigar of the Year.
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You could still get a regular for lack of a better term, or core Padron for about$10 or maybe less, depending on the size.
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Uh Fuente, which makes very expensive cigars, uh Opus X 25, uh that could be$44 or more, and depending upon where you buy it.
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Uh you can get a core Fuente for less than$10.
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Yeah, the the Magnum Rosado line, the Rosato Magnum R line.
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I always fit it's it's such a long name.
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I always forget the the uh the right name for it.
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But that is a really good cigar, and it is not a super expensive cigar.
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Opus X, it gets all the press.
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The expensive stuff gets all the press.
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But there's some great Fuentes, great padrones, great Rocky Vatel core line.
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Look at the emerald.
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So we're highlight so we're highlighting the conviction right now, which in 2024 was a top 25, but this year it was the it was the emerald.
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Which is a$10 or$11 cigar and a fantastic smoke.
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So no, you you don't have to spend$100 to get a great cigar, absolutely not.
00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:44.639
But yeah, if you want the very, very distinct experience of seeing what a cigar tastes like when it's composed of uh 10-year-old and older tobaccos that still have plenty of uh plenty of character, you're gonna have to pay for it.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:50.720
Looking at the very upper end of the market, what what's the most expensive cigar on our uh on our listicle?
00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.399
What what would how high does it go?
00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:02.480
I think without having in front of me, it's the it's the Cuban Trinidad fundadores, but it is aged for 10 years.
00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:07.919
Now it comes in a in a big ST duPont humidor, this this beautiful humidor.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.159
So part of that cost, that humidor is factored into the cost.
00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.399
It comes with 55 of them.
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.639
Uh it was aged aged 10 years last year, so if you had it now, it's 11 years old.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:26.320
But that humidor of 55 cigars uh goes around$60,000.
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.120
So we're talking more than a thousand dollars a cigar.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.279
More than a thousand dollars a cigar.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.159
Would you ever pay that much money for a cigar?
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.960
At uh what you're paying me now, no.
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.000
We'll work on that, Greg.
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:40.639
We'll work on that.
00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:45.200
But if you decided to give me some crazy bonus, I I'm I'm I might splurge.
00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.080
It's certainly not a cigar for everybody or for every occasion.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:56.159
And these expensive cigars come with uh usually come with uh extra special packaging, maybe for for collectors for special gifts.
00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:01.279
But if you're you know smoking uh just a if you're a regular everyday smoker, there's there's still plenty of values out there.
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:08.799
And that's why we have the the best buys in every issue of the magazine or smart purchases that cost usually less than seven, eight bucks.
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:18.640
Uh we have our top 25 every year, which also always includes our best buys of the year, cigars that are 88 points or higher, usually less than$8 per cigar.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:27.599
You know, well, we we we try to find the best cigars in the market and also low, not only uh showcasing the highest scores, but also the best buys.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.920
Because some people are looking for uh everyone likes the value.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:35.039
I mean, you know, it doesn't matter how much you make, even even people who fly private jets want to get banged for their bucks sometimes.
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:42.799
But you look at top 25, it's not all 40, 50, 60, 70, 100, 100 cigars.
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.839
And uh it just goes to show why it's so important.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:50.079
And these are cigars that uh that all go through the same blind process.
00:17:50.160 --> 00:18:00.640
And I know this is this is a subject of another podcast, but it shows why it's so important to smoke blind because uh all information is can be potentially prejudicial.
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.640
If you know it's a cheap cigar, it may affect how you judge it.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.200
And if you know it's a super expensive cigar, the same thing.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.720
It's best to not know anything other than you're smoking a cigar.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:11.680
That's the way to do it.
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.359
Otherwise, you'd be uh you'd be biased.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.759
And and sometimes if you know it's an expensive cigar, you might be biased against it.
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:19.440
Like, oh, I I can't possibly like that.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.960
No, no cigar is worth that.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.079
Or you might say, well, it's got to be better because it costs a hundred dollars.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:24.559
Exactly.
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:29.119
Yeah, that's why the blind tastings are so vital to what we do and why we do it all the time.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.640
You know, that that special, uh, we've been talking about that cigar of the year.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:34.160
There is a chance to smoke that.
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:35.759
It's hard for people to get.
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:48.160
If you go to our Big Smoke Las Vegas at the seminars this November, uh George Padron will be up there talking about the cigar, and the seminar guests will get the chance to smoke one of these true rarities.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:49.839
Oh, we're handing those out?
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:51.839
We are handing for the seminar.
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.599
Yeah, get your seminar tickets now if they're still available when you hear this podcast.
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.240
Uh, we are giving those out at the Big Smoke Las Vegas.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.200
I hope I can get one.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:03.759
I've I haven't smoked one since uh since when we smoked them for the top twenty-five.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.880
If it's hard to for Greg to smoke, it's hard for you to smoke.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.680
Cigar prices going up.
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.160
Uh going up and staying up.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.599
Going up and staying up.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.880
And that's why we're here to try to point you to the right cigars.
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:21.920
Whether it's a$100 cigar or a$5 cigar, we call them like we see them, we smoke them blind.
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:27.200
We're trying to give you the buying advice that uh that you require to become a better cigar aficionado.
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.720
So thanks for joining us today on the Cigar Avisionado podcast.
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:35.519
Be sure to check out more episodes on YouTube and on cigaravicionato.com.
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.039
And always visit us on our website for the most up to date buying advice.
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.839
I'm David Savona for Greg Matola.
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:43.440
Thanks for joining us today.
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:17.920
All right, we are here with the Cigar Vishnu podcast in the Cigar Vishnu Lounge in New York City at the headquarters of M.
00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.199
Shankin Communications.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:22.079
I'm David Savona, the executive editor of Cigar Vishnu.
00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:25.199
Joined today by Greg Matola, our managing editor.
00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:25.760
Hello, Greg.
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:26.480
How are you?
00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.239
You know, I never thought I would ever be on a podcast ever.
00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:32.479
And here I am, but very happy to be here.
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:34.320
I I could sense your enthusiasm.
00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:34.799
This is great.
00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:36.640
So what are we talking about today?
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:39.920
Today we are talking about pricey cigars.
00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.759
I mean, what price is uh in the news nowadays?
00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:45.520
Uh everything seems to be more expensive.
00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:53.439
Gas is more expensive, airline flights are getting more pricey, uh, your T-bone steak in a restaurant is a little bit more than you used to paying for.
00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:58.079
And cigars, too, have come up in price, especially in recent years.
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:06.879
Uh, we've seen cigar after cigar hit and exceed the$100 price point, and that kind of takes us to what we're smoking right now.
00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:11.920
We are both smoking cigars that retail for$100 or more for a single cigar.
00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:16.319
There's$250 worth of cigars between the two of us right now.
00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:17.840
Well, which one are you smoking?
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:22.000
Yeah, so I'm smoking the Rocky Patel Conviction, the Toro size.
00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:23.200
There's only one size in this brand.
00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:25.840
It's a one-size brand released in 2024.
00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:28.239
It is a heralded cigar.
00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:33.280
It was uh number seven cigar of the year for 2024 on Cigar Vichinado's top 25.
00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:34.000
I remember that.
00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:36.480
Yeah, we gave us a rating of 95 points.
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:42.079
It's uh Nicaraguan smoke, all Nicaraguan on the inside with a Mexican wrapper, San Andreas wrapper.
00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:44.000
And Greg, what are you puffing today?
00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:47.120
Also Nicaraguan, also 95 points.
00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:49.120
And I think this also came out in 2024.
00:01:49.200 --> 00:02:02.640
This is the Monte Cristo from the 1935 uh anniversary Nicaragua series, but it is the doble Diamante, because there is a Diamante that came out as a follow-up, which is about 25 bucks.
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:06.239
And then they came out with a double Diamante, 150 bucks.
00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:11.840
And the first question is always what makes these cigars so expensive?
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:17.120
And in both cases, your cigar and my cigar, the answer is the same.
00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:21.759
A finite amount of very, very aged tobacco.
00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:32.719
Now I remember Rocky Patel talking about conviction the Nicaragua tobacco is from his maiden crop, which I was actually there for when that was growing in 2014.
00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:35.039
Tobacco that he grows himself in Nicaragua.
00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.879
Uh and uh especially the uh I was there for the crop in SLE.
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:44.080
So I remember seeing it, and and you know, he was really proud of it, but he didn't know what he was gonna do with it.
00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:48.719
So he put most of it away and now it comes in uh conviction.
00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:52.560
And for the this Monte Cristo, it's also aged tobacco.
00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:54.719
Uh, this stuff is from AJ Fernandez.
00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:56.960
So so what's the deal with the expensive cigars?
00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:07.120
I mean, we're we're talking about two examples here that give you can't say bang for the buck, but they certainly uh uh give a high score for the high price.
00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.120
I mean, these are two 95-point smokes.
00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.719
And when we rate them, we rated these cigars like all the cigars we rate.
00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:13.680
They were rated blind.
00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:15.439
So they came to us without these bands.
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.360
We didn't know what they cost, we didn't know what they were.
00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:18.000
Of course.
00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.280
Uh so these are classic cigars.
00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:24.319
95 points and up is a classic rating on our scale.
00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:26.800
Not every expensive cigar gets a high rating.
00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:30.159
These live up to the uh to the expectation.
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:33.280
But uh where's where did this trend begin, Greg?
00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:35.280
When when did cigars start getting more expensive?
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:35.759
What do you think?
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.919
We always had expensive cigars.
00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:42.159
You had not like this, not this expensive in 2014.
00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:45.520
There was Davidoff release there, Oro Blanco.
00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.159
Davidoff always a pioneer of the uh high price game.
00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:50.000
But that was a$500 cigar.
00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:58.400
Uh 2016, then it was like that was a royal, like a royal salamon, that was over a hundred bucks, but it wasn't quite a trend yet.
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:16.240
I think in 2022, when Habanos decided to double and triple the prices of Cohiba and Trinidad, making standard cigars in those lines really expensive, and the special editions over a hundred dollars.
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:23.680
I think that was kind of a test market for the rest of the world because they released an anniversario cigar for 300 bucks.
00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:26.800
That was a limited edition, and the thing sold.
00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:33.519
And I think the rest of the industry kind of took notice and said, okay, there actually is a market for this.
00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:38.079
So in 2024, both these cigars come out, and they weren't the only ones doing that.
00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:43.680
Oliva has a uh very pricey cigar, Placencia's had pricey cigars.
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:53.120
There's we have a listicle on our website, cigarapicionado.com, and poor Greg's constantly updating that because there's always new cigars coming out that sell for$100 or more.
00:04:53.279 --> 00:05:02.800
And very recently, you we we added, you added uh the standard cohibas because now there are standard cohiba cigars that sell for more than$100.
00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:11.519
See, and that's the huge difference because most of these cigars are limited edition cigars, limited run, like I said before, finite amount of tobacco.
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:16.240
They make a couple of hundred boxes, and then that's the end because that's the end of the tobacco.
00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:25.759
Uh with the cohiba, those are all regular, regular esplenditos, regular lanceras, regular robustos, all going for more than a hundred bucks MSRP.
00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:27.199
And those are boxes of 25.
00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:34.160
So you look at a box of 25 cohiba robustos, that's a you're you're spending$2,500 to take that box home if you can find it.
00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:35.839
And that's everywhere.
00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:44.240
Now, not everyone will remember those who would travel internationally, those who like to shop around for cohibas.
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:45.839
You could shop around for a good price.
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:51.600
You could say, okay, I'm not gonna buy in Hong Kong, I'm not gonna buy in Canada, I'm not gonna buy in London because it's super expensive.
00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:57.360
I'll go to Germany, I'll go to Switzerland, go to Cuba, or go to Cuba, where it was the least expensive.
00:05:57.519 --> 00:05:59.519
So there were differences in the price of cohiba.
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:10.240
In 2022, when Havanos raised the price, well, they also, as you remember, fixed it to the Hong Kong dollar, which I think at the time was was the most expensive market.
00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:15.199
Uh London was pretty high too before the V uh the V8, but it doesn't matter anymore.
00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:16.079
You can't shop around.
00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:18.560
It's as those days are gone.
00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:23.120
Yeah, it's as expensive in Havana as it is in London if you want to get uh Monte Cristo.
00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:25.279
And to your point, like you said, if you can find it.
00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.439
Remember the last time we went to Havana together?
00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:31.839
Bare shelves, bare shelves, expensive cigars if you could find them.
00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:38.240
Uh we did see people with bricks of cash buying cigars and uh and taking them home.
00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.879
It used to be uh I remember my first trip to Cuba, 1996.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:52.240
Uh, you could find a full box of cigars, not cohiba, but but good cigars,$50,$60, and back when they were priced in US dollars.
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:53.600
Uh not anymore.
00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.639
That's uh the price for a single cigar for a lot of different vitolas.
00:06:56.879 --> 00:07:00.160
Well, remember the the the Coeba Bahicis came out in 2010.
00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:01.199
Yeah, don't remind me of the city.
00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:02.319
No, no, I'm bringing up that story.
00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:02.879
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:09.920
That's that story where we went to the Casa del Habano in Havana, I think it was at uh Habana Libre.
00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:11.600
Habana Libra, yeah, the old Hilton.
00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:18.560
And you were able to get a box where those cigars, the 52s, right, were 30 bucks a pop.
00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:20.240
And you said, nah, that's kind of pricey.
00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:21.279
$30 for a cigar.
00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:22.240
Yeah, three hundred dollars.
00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:24.000
Thirty dollars a cigar.
00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:26.319
I'm like, that's too much money to spend on a box of cigars.
00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.120
Now, Greg, tell tell us what I missed out on.
00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:33.920
Because that$300 box of cigars years ago, not that many years ago, what does that retail for?
00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:41.360
Uh I think now the BHK 52, when we just updated it, I think it's comes out to that's the smallest size in the Behake line.
00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.720
It's about$265 per cigar.
00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:51.040
So you could have got them for$30 each, and now if you can even find them, you're gonna be paying$265 a piece.
00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:52.240
And there were stacks of them.
00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:53.040
I should have bought them.
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:54.079
I made a mistake.
00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:57.759
Let's talk about where we came from because yeah, I I've been smoking cigars for a long time.
00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:58.560
So have you.
00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.120
I'm a little older than you, maybe a little older than you.
00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.839
Uh joined Cigar Avicionado in 1995.
00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:07.439
So what I remember buying a box of cigars right before I started.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:08.480
It was one of my go-tos.
00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.759
It was a box of Hoyta Monterey Excalibur number threes.
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:13.040
Smoked them all the time.
00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:20.560
And I spent all of$35 for that box of cigars, which uh, you know, it was was quite a deal at the time.
00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.360
I I think cigars were underpriced back in those days.
00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:27.199
They're now a luxury product and priced a lot higher.
00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:34.240
Uh, and looking at some historic numbers, we did a story in our 30th anniversary issue that showed the progression of prices over the years.
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:40.559
The average price of a non-Cuban cigar in our tastings in 1992 was$2.93.
00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:44.240
There were cigars that cost$1.50, some that cost$2.
00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:46.799
There were a couple of higher price ones in there.
00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:49.360
Go to 96, that came up to$4.
00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.559
2006, 20 years ago,$6.43 on average.
00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.799
10 years ago, the average price was$10.42.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:06.080
Nowadays, Greg, what do you think the average price was in our most recent issue for one tasting category?
00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.200
I did the numbers, you don't know the answer, so I'm I'm testing it here.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:16.639
Average is probably not up to$20 yet, but I think it goes uh$17,$16,$17.
00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:17.600
Very good guess.
00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:18.879
It actually is almost$20.
00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:20.159
It was$19.
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:20.960
Wow.
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:21.360
Yeah.
00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:22.799
That was an expensive category.
00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:23.840
There were a couple of$35.
00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:29.360
There was a$35 cigar, a$44 cigar, and a$55 cigar.
00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:40.000
This episode of the Cigar Vishnata Podcast is brought to you by the Big Smoke Las Vegas, taking place November 6th and 7th.
00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:41.840
It's the biggest cigar event of the year.
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Our cigar seminars include a tasting of the number one cigar of the year and a presentation by superstar Guy Fietti.
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It's the Big Smoke Las Vegas weekend.
00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:03.039
You can find out all about it at Las Vegas at Viggsmoke.com.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:18.320
If you remember, say 20 years ago.
00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:21.120
Some days I do, some days I don't.
00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.000
Well, 20 years ago, there were a few$20 cigars.
00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:27.279
But those, a$20,$25 cigar, that was a splurge.
00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:29.279
That was a really expensive cigar.
00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:34.000
Not many cigars reached that that price point.
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:44.000
You had a few Padrones, some Davidoffs, some of the Fuente Opus X stuff, even though if uh just as a side note here, they they never had an MSRP of that.
00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:49.279
But the stores always charge$20 plus because they could.
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.000
But for the most part, that was a huge splurge.
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:57.120
And it's like now the huge splurge is the hundred dollar cigar or the$75 cigar.
00:10:57.200 --> 00:11:03.440
I mean, even our cigar of the year for 2025, it's$75 retail price.
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:03.919
Yeah.
00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:07.360
Now you talked about special uh special qualities.
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.279
Why are certain cigars more expensive?
00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:12.320
We're talking about uh limited tobaccos in these cigars.
00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:15.919
Uh with that cigar of the year, they're using some of their oldest tobaccos.
00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:17.679
And there's also a limitation.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.919
They have, I think, two rollers that make that size.
00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:21.440
It's a special shape.
00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:23.200
It's only their second perfecto.
00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.960
Yeah, it's a large salamone size, lots of curves, lots of tapers.
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:27.600
I was there.
00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:28.799
Yeah, you were there in the factory.
00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:35.200
Yeah, I was there in January, and I saw one of the rollers, and he's just there, and that's all he makes.
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:41.440
And he's and that day he was the only guy authorized to make the salamones to their uh to their specs.
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:43.679
Are you urging him to make them faster to get more of them?
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:44.639
Everyone wants that cigar.
00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:45.840
It's cigar of the year.
00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.320
When I go there, George Padron really watches me like a hawk.
00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:51.600
So he should.
00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.320
He've got your notebook, you're gonna you're writing down all his secrets.
00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:58.720
Yeah, and and you know, I'm I'm not above stealing cigars off the table, and he knows that.
00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:00.879
So, but no, I didn't I didn't get any.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:02.879
So, where do we go from here?
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.399
Do you think uh we're we're reaching uh uh an end to this trend?
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:08.720
Are cigars going to continue to get more expensive?
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:14.720
I don't think we're we're seeing an end because if you look at other markets, once prices go up, there's a new floor.
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:17.039
You're talking about how the price of everything goes up.
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:17.840
Look at airlines.
00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:29.120
Okay, now there's gonna be a new a new surcharge for this or for that, more bag, you know, more uh increased price for baggage or just a fuel charge because of oil.
00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:34.399
Okay, but then when the oil prices start to stabilize, those airline prices don't go down anymore.
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.000
Nothing goes down anymore.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:38.399
I think we just have a new floor.
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:46.639
I remember hearing online because nothing, nothing gets people riled up online in the cigar world like like like prices.
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:47.120
Sure.
00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:50.559
Prices really, really stoke the internet outrage.
00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:57.039
And one of the refrains I would often read is um for anyone doing an expensive cigar, oh, they're pricing themselves out of the market.
00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.440
Cohiba's pricing themselves out of the market.
00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:02.080
And I say that's not true.
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.519
I say they're just pricing you out of the market.
00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:07.840
They're changing the demographic.
00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:15.679
A different segment of the market will be buying cohiba now, but they will sell everything they make and they will do it at whatever price they ask for.
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:26.080
Now, that said, we're with their expensive cigars here, expensive cigars we've talked about, special cigars, maybe something for uh, you know, uh a splurge, and maybe not for everybody.
00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:34.559
The good thing about the cigar market is even with these expensive cigars and this trend of rising prices, you you still can find bargains if you know where to look.
00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:35.600
Oh, absolutely.
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:37.279
Even within the Monte Cristo line.
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.320
So I'm smoking the top of the top, the double Diamante.
00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:44.960
And it delivers 95 points, and it tastes different than the other ones.
00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:53.679
But if you look at the core line, the uh the the regular 1935 Nicaragua, not an expensive cigar.
00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:58.799
It's in that$10 to$15 range, and it's a fantastic experience.
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:04.799
It's uh cigars from that line got number two on our top 25 on more than one occasion.
00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:12.159
The number two, uh the number two size got number two, and then the espesso, I think, got number two in 2025.
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.080
And that's not a hundred dollar cigar.
00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.919
Well, we mentioned Padron, the current cigar of the year with their$75 smoke.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:20.320
Padron makes a host of different brands.
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:27.120
Uh the core line, the thousand series, uh, relatively inexpensive, certainly inexpensive compared to the Cigar of the Year.
00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:33.519
You could still get a regular for lack of a better term, or core Padron for about$10 or maybe less, depending on the size.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:43.200
Uh Fuente, which makes very expensive cigars, uh Opus X 25, uh that could be$44 or more, and depending upon where you buy it.
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:46.000
Uh you can get a core Fuente for less than$10.
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.679
Yeah, the the Magnum Rosado line, the Rosato Magnum R line.
00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:51.200
I always fit it's it's such a long name.
00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:54.879
I always forget the the uh the right name for it.
00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:59.440
But that is a really good cigar, and it is not a super expensive cigar.
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:01.840
Opus X, it gets all the press.
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.159
The expensive stuff gets all the press.
00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:10.080
But there's some great Fuentes, great padrones, great Rocky Vatel core line.
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:11.039
Look at the emerald.
00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:19.279
So we're highlight so we're highlighting the conviction right now, which in 2024 was a top 25, but this year it was the it was the emerald.
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:23.679
Which is a$10 or$11 cigar and a fantastic smoke.
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:28.240
So no, you you don't have to spend$100 to get a great cigar, absolutely not.
00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:44.639
But yeah, if you want the very, very distinct experience of seeing what a cigar tastes like when it's composed of uh 10-year-old and older tobaccos that still have plenty of uh plenty of character, you're gonna have to pay for it.
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:50.720
Looking at the very upper end of the market, what what's the most expensive cigar on our uh on our listicle?
00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.399
What what would how high does it go?
00:15:52.720 --> 00:16:02.480
I think without having in front of me, it's the it's the Cuban Trinidad fundadores, but it is aged for 10 years.
00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:07.919
Now it comes in a in a big ST duPont humidor, this this beautiful humidor.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.159
So part of that cost, that humidor is factored into the cost.
00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.399
It comes with 55 of them.
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.639
Uh it was aged aged 10 years last year, so if you had it now, it's 11 years old.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:26.320
But that humidor of 55 cigars uh goes around$60,000.
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.120
So we're talking more than a thousand dollars a cigar.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:31.279
More than a thousand dollars a cigar.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.159
Would you ever pay that much money for a cigar?
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.960
At uh what you're paying me now, no.
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.000
We'll work on that, Greg.
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:40.639
We'll work on that.
00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:45.200
But if you decided to give me some crazy bonus, I I'm I'm I might splurge.
00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.080
It's certainly not a cigar for everybody or for every occasion.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:56.159
And these expensive cigars come with uh usually come with uh extra special packaging, maybe for for collectors for special gifts.
00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:01.279
But if you're you know smoking uh just a if you're a regular everyday smoker, there's there's still plenty of values out there.
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:08.799
And that's why we have the the best buys in every issue of the magazine or smart purchases that cost usually less than seven, eight bucks.
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:18.640
Uh we have our top 25 every year, which also always includes our best buys of the year, cigars that are 88 points or higher, usually less than$8 per cigar.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:27.599
You know, well, we we we try to find the best cigars in the market and also low, not only uh showcasing the highest scores, but also the best buys.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.920
Because some people are looking for uh everyone likes the value.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:35.039
I mean, you know, it doesn't matter how much you make, even even people who fly private jets want to get banged for their bucks sometimes.
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:42.799
But you look at top 25, it's not all 40, 50, 60, 70, 100, 100 cigars.
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.839
And uh it just goes to show why it's so important.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:50.079
And these are cigars that uh that all go through the same blind process.
00:17:50.160 --> 00:18:00.640
And I know this is this is a subject of another podcast, but it shows why it's so important to smoke blind because uh all information is can be potentially prejudicial.
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.640
If you know it's a cheap cigar, it may affect how you judge it.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.200
And if you know it's a super expensive cigar, the same thing.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.720
It's best to not know anything other than you're smoking a cigar.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:11.680
That's the way to do it.
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:13.359
Otherwise, you'd be uh you'd be biased.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.759
And and sometimes if you know it's an expensive cigar, you might be biased against it.
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:19.440
Like, oh, I I can't possibly like that.
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.960
No, no cigar is worth that.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.079
Or you might say, well, it's got to be better because it costs a hundred dollars.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:24.559
Exactly.
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:29.119
Yeah, that's why the blind tastings are so vital to what we do and why we do it all the time.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.640
You know, that that special, uh, we've been talking about that cigar of the year.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:34.160
There is a chance to smoke that.
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:35.759
It's hard for people to get.
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:48.160
If you go to our Big Smoke Las Vegas at the seminars this November, uh George Padron will be up there talking about the cigar, and the seminar guests will get the chance to smoke one of these true rarities.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:49.839
Oh, we're handing those out?
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:51.839
We are handing for the seminar.
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.599
Yeah, get your seminar tickets now if they're still available when you hear this podcast.
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.240
Uh, we are giving those out at the Big Smoke Las Vegas.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.200
I hope I can get one.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:03.759
I've I haven't smoked one since uh since when we smoked them for the top twenty-five.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:06.880
If it's hard to for Greg to smoke, it's hard for you to smoke.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:09.680
Cigar prices going up.
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.160
Uh going up and staying up.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.599
Going up and staying up.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.880
And that's why we're here to try to point you to the right cigars.
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:21.920
Whether it's a$100 cigar or a$5 cigar, we call them like we see them, we smoke them blind.
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:27.200
We're trying to give you the buying advice that uh that you require to become a better cigar aficionado.
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.720
So thanks for joining us today on the Cigar Avisionado podcast.
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:35.519
Be sure to check out more episodes on YouTube and on cigaravicionato.com.
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.039
And always visit us on our website for the most up to date buying advice.
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.839
I'm David Savona for Greg Matola.
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:43.440
Thanks for joining us today.
